Better Editing Can Improve Your Mixes More Than Compression or EQ
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- Опубліковано 16 вер 2021
- Good mixing is important. Sure. We all know that. But so many new mixers try to fix issues that would be much better solved by spending a little more time and attention in editing your tracks. Here's what to listen for.
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One of the problems with editing is it gets way, WAY too easy to start obsessing over it. I find it hard to know when to stop and can end up taking weeks tinkering around with things that, in hindsight; end up not being of that much importance. Recently I've been trying to make my edits only where something sticks out like a sore thumb, such as a wrong note being played or a hit that is so off the beat it makes you cringe. I would agree that the editing phase does the most for the song though.
This is such an underrated skill... If we're talking editing bands, and NOT gridding everything, there's one key concept I think you need to be aware of:
Once you move one hit (kick/ snare) by ear, you have to understand the knock on effect on the next one. Often, one egregious kick or snare being moved will mean you have to move the next few hits until the performance 'settles' back to its aggregate feel again. Sometimes this might be up to 2 bars, but do it by ear rather by eye, and you retain the feel of the human musician while keeping it feeling 'in time' or 'solid'.
Crossfade is your best friend, and your ears are more important than your eyes.
This is a super solid piece of advice 👏
Thanks, Justin! This is what I've always been pointing out to people I teach. This is such an underrated process in production. These small details are one of the things that differentiates professional records from less professional ones. I always take my time editing before I mix, because it makes mixing much more easier and more pleasurable. Thanks for giving these advices for free! There's a lot of gold to get from this channel
Congratulations on 100k !!! Keep up the great work
Some sauce to get things popping:
1. Put your drums in phase. Even digital drums need phase checks. Sometimes the 808 can be out of phase with the kick and your bottom will fall flat.
2. Clip gain: when the compressor is not having to deal with extremes in quiet and loud, you will get smoother and sexier compression. Visually even the clip/waveform out before you compress or saturate.
100k subs Nice. Congrats.
Excellent discussion! I try to share this kind of information with my Music production clients. to remind them to leave a lot more room in the budget for editing. in addition, this is one of the few things that can really be done well at a home studio. it is also one of the major places where the technology and accessibility, for blind recording engineers like myself, is not as robust as those of my cited counterparts. this really needs to be addressed by software manufacturers!
great podcast!
@Bladwijzer Sync Thanks for your kind words!
Hi Justin, thank you for your great teachings.
Great topic Justin! Editing is a huge part of being an engineer, if people disagree they are either lazy or ignorant of what engineering involves.
Someone had to talk about it !!! Bravo !
Good stuff!
I often remind myself, Nirvana rehearsed the songs of Nevermind nearly every day for SIX MONTHS before going into the studio to record with Butch Vig. And speaking of that record, when you hear the isolated drum tracks, Dave Grohl's kick is usually doing something interesting. On "In Bloom" it's slightly ahead of the beat. On "Teen Spirit" it constantly accelerates, then resets each bar, during the chorus. Would sound like bad playing if it wasn't consistent and purposeful.
Have you compared the first mix of Nevermind done by Butch after tracking the album and the second mix by Andy Wallace which is the released version we all know. They're two different songs especially the drums. Between the two of them on either end of the process the album sounds as great as it does. It's interesting to hear however the decisions of two different styles of engineers on one seminal recorded.
@@michaelalvarez1336 I've heard both versions...I know Nirvana had issues with the polish of Andy Wallace's version, and it's cooler to like the Butch Vig version...but I prefer Andy Wallace honestly. I think part of the album's power comes from presenting this "underground," sometimes transgressive material as a polished mainstream product. There's an interesting tension there that is lost in the Butch Vig version, which sounds more like you'd "expect" it to sound at the time
Brilliant! I've been doing a lot of distant mixing in the covid era with people playing to a backing track. Early on I found that precision, getting tracks more precisely on the beat, made the biggest difference. Not quantizing. Just getting the hits to hit the same, to be tighter, just consistent, it's like a fog lifting.
Also - I had to go back and listen to Toxic. Amazing production there. No idea how to start to approach it.
This is right on, editing (whether performed or post) is about dynamic & timing. Furthermore, pitch & timbre (made possible to control well with Melodyne). Clip gaining sibilance and proximity effect. Removing noise for increased overall song clarity (preventing noise buildup). Once some Virtual Instruments are bounced to audio, you’ll find there’s a ton of noise in those tracks.
But for a lot of modern production there’s editing audio for creative color and impact. Even for live sounding records like Adele & Florence & the Machine. They are warping, distorting and mangling their audio; moving it all about the grid to maximize interest & emotion. Editing is huge.
✅✅✅
Thank you, thank you thank you Justin. Finally someone who sees the history of the process as I do.
Why do all of our "older" records sound so tight? Because the musicians practiced (which is a very rare occurnce these days). I too equate that practice to editing. Many times during a rehearsal, the band I would be playing in would practice one section over and over in a loop. That way when we recorded to tape (yes I am old too lol), it was "keepable". It was the only way to go if you were to avoid the splicing block.
Nowdays we don't have to edit in the rehearsal room, we can edit in the DAW. This provides two new possibilities in my view. One is as above, rehearsal is no longer necessary (did I actually just type that? Geees lol). I think even more importantly, it gives musicians the ability to construct what is in their head, bit by bit, or note by note even. Many of my clients have a more developed musical sensibility over their musical ability. Editing gives that musician the opportunity to get to that "more advanced" result. Some would argue that's cheating, that the musician should be able to play what they record and release. Well remember the "old model". Bands write the album in the studio, then rehearse the album, then tour the album. Rehearsing something written (or in our times "edited") has been going on since the late 60's.
My two cents worth, and thanks again Justin. This particular video saw me shouting :Yes Justin, finally", at least two dozen times.
Very cool.This makes mucho sense.At first i thought it would include the 'cleanup',that i now guess is different than editing.(?) I don't have a ton of experience , but i have been trying to take the time to simply cleanup noises , pops, hum etc before starting to mix.....so this is very imformative......so, thank you.
Thanks and cheers
Great points and great video. I also find the acoustic guitars to be consistent culprits of throwing things off, because of overstrumming, etc. I spend WAY too much time editing, but good to know i’m not the only one.
i used to put ns1 on ever track, which is a noise suppressor, not a gate, so it would try to eliminate noise, and it would actually mess alot with the highend of the vocals, ending up in me adding a high shelf and therefor having the whole song be so bright in the 8k to 10k in the vocals, one of the main reasons that happened was cause i was too lazy to strip silence fade in and out the vocals so that any background noise would not be there inbetween, ever since i stopped doing that, the highend on vocals is so much better in every track i work on
This is the kind of thing I'm a complete maniac about
nailed it
Thanks for great videos. Maybe state in the video that you talk about live performances recording..
Hey, I have those same Auratones!
cant agree more with you. in my country there are a lot of styles that need a tight editing, and some styles that can use a more free timing , like samba or bossa nova... but it sounds a lot better when edited
Could not agree more Mr Scoop!
Thank you, I will tell that to Mrs Scoop!
@@SonicScoop I hope you both go by the moniker 'The Scoops' when together!
i.e. 'i'm going for dinner at The Scoops tonight'
@@SonicScoop Diary entry, 23rd August 'ice cream with The Scoops tonight'
Great timing, Justin! I'm working on a video right now on my experience editing in Logic Pro... it's such an important step whether enhancing a performance or strictly quantizing everything. However, Logic Pro really doesn't make it easy. If anyone reads this and is a Logic Pro user, let me know how your editing experiences below pleaseeee, I can't be the only one.
Good input = Good output. I am trying to implement this approach recently. Choose good sounds and samples => Do good arrangement / editing => Less load on Mixing yet good mixes => less load on mastering yet good master....
"fix it in the mix" "get a expensive master" ppl need to realize if its wrong from step 1 everything is fu*ked. its a flow/process - not magic...ight maybe a little magic.
Agreed, arrangement will get things out the way of each other before you even get to mixing :)
The work in that is learning arrangement and music theory/ develop your ear so you can write parts that have their own space from Day One.
If you listen to some like Vangelis not only is the engineering shit-hot the arrangement of the notes and timbres is so exceptional that each mix element can be given it's space and full impact as they move in different times and note/ frequency ranges. Expert mode acheived!
Expert mode:
ua-cam.com/video/cstQSkXHY4o/v-deo.html&ab_channel=Vangelis-Topic
Expert Mode pt. 2:
ua-cam.com/video/Jse5wkQZ--Q/v-deo.html&ab_channel=Vangelis-Topic
Toxic is an amazing song :D
Hey Justin! I'm currently working on tracks for my band and I'm on version 8.8 revision-infinity! The overall mix sounds great but it needs a little help in the drum editing department. When I move something that's slightly off like a kick or especially a snare around I get a delay (or advance) from the overheads and it's very noticeable to me. I'm using my low pass and hi pass generously across the kit.. any suggestions?
I would think you'd need to edit the OHeads along the single tracks (snare, bass drum etc...
Depending on the DAW you are using, you will need to make sure all those drum tracks are grouped/slaved together (so if you nudge one, you nudge all). That’ll prevent any phasing or delay in the result of the drums.
Yup, edit the drums as a group, rather than individual tracks.
You may need to cross fade them individually in some cases if necessary, but they should always be moved around as a group.
Hope that helps!
-Justin
I think the bottom line is a record is not a live performance. Unless it is but don’t expect it to sound like a record!
From my experience with this stuff it comes down to the performance. when the band gets into the studio I am expecting a word performance first take and if the band needs that kind of editing they are better off going back to the rehearsal room and working on that stuff before they even get into the studio.
That’s if you’re working with bands. But if you’re piecing together collaboration with people as well as doing virtual instruments, you’re gonna wanna pay attention to how they blend.
Quick question I notice that mix engineers sometimes or most often rout the lead vocal to a stereo aux track why do they do this what would be some of the reasons for this could you please explain
Like a bus track where you can send the main vocals and dubs to and treat them as 1 vocal that way it sounds nice, full, n thick.
Or a aux where you can send it to a reverb and delay etc. that way u dont have to have a seperate reverb or delay on each track you can just use 1 and send it to whatever source u want.
@@michaelrice6620 Quick question I've notice that on a aux vocal send track the meter volume and peak indicater changes
For example I will record in at about 10 db and rout 2 or more tracks to a aux send
know in my mind I thought I would expect to see the aux send hitting at the same level 10 db
but this is not always the case
So I guess my question is at what level should a vocal bus volume indicater be at before processing with plugins such as dynamics
@@shawnwaldron1018 well i mean if you put multiple tracks to 1 track its gonna be louder than 1 track. But i wouldnt stress on it to much i know alot of people are really on top of gain staging but i think as long as you have atleast 6db headroom you have space. I usually keep my tracks between 12db to 6db going into plugins.
I got a 2 part question for you
Why and how do some mix engineers use limiters as a vocal insert
Why if you could give a few reasons
And how if you could demonstrate
Thanks you
The Challenge here is to find some robust reasons for a valid general disagreement ... Maybe, (just been pricky ) ... I don't consider 'Editing' something divorced from 'Arrangement' ... 'Editing' seems to act as some form of 'post-performance micro arrangements' ... but this distinction is not mainstream because the standard notion seems to imply that the arrangement comes previously to the recording ... but I observe that many times the process could be more convoluted and the 'arranger' mindset could be active inclusive up to the last stages before public release ...
Stravinsky said: 'to Compose is Selective Improvisation.' ... I would paraphrase him as to Produce Records is Selective Improvised Edits ...
Hey bud, i kinda see where you're coming from but feel you're thinking about it too much!
@@updown5238 ... and very likely, less than a infinitesimal fraction of the overthinking to come ... overlapping in infinitude of layers of thoughts & words for decoding things that never required articulated thoughts/words to become as they were/are/would be ...
Before using compression in a mix ... I begin with comprehension ...
@@firstnamesurname6550 A case in point my man! have a nice weekend :)
@@updown5238 Nice Weekend, and good luck with all the selective improvisations in the path ,,, :)
0:37 cuz ppl in nishe/underground doing it by moment/passion without thinking
how actually its sounds as quality, but music. commercial shit is product for sale.
any fire video about compression?
Sooooo many! Try here: ua-cam.com/play/PL3yghKGBjggReYC7grFQA0azQhKqZzbeK.html
@@SonicScoop Good man!
Who cares about the ‘push-back’ you speak of bro, you stating all facts. If someone doesn’t want to listen too bad for them lol
Tears for Fears and Pee-Wee Herman... you're really down with the kids.
I'm a graying millennial! They make those now.
Plus: ALL the kids should know Tears for Fears. They were old when I was young(er).
-Justin
It's funny. I am an electronic producer, almost all sample based, especially drums, apart from synths. So many of the production techniques employed are aimed at humanising elements, intentionally making them slightly off grid. For the live band guys, they are trying their best to hit the grid!
I’m really do appreciate what you do but why is it always about mixing please can you make and indebt video about mastering please....
We've got a BUNCH of mastering videos! For all the most important concepts in one place, try sonicscoop.com/mastering101
We also have a full playlist of mastering videos here: ua-cam.com/video/EiRMYoqU3ys/v-deo.html
Hope tha helps!
-Justin
Or you could just fix it in the mastering
Haha, please no!
You're trolling here Shirley!
This video could use some editing too. It took over six minutes in before you told me ANYTHING.
It’s a podcast. Listen to it like one :-)
-Justin
@@SonicScoop No thank you. Too much talk and too little information. If I want a podcast I'll use my podcast app.
I use UA-cam as a podcast app all the time. It’s arguably the biggest podcasting app in the world. It also does videos.
Incidentally, we have plenty of those too. But this one is a podcast episode :-)
I mean… should we scrub UA-cam of all our podcast episodes?
Should we ask the biggest podcasts in the world to remove their podcasts from UA-cam?
Many of the biggest podcasts out there get more listens on UA-cam than from dedicated podcasting apps… should we really ask them to stop posting their podcast episodes here?
Honest questions!
-Justin
@@SonicScoop My objection is: the idea content to verbal ratio is way too low, even if it is a podcast. When you’re speaking to people, you tell them what you’re going to tell them, then you tell them, and then you tell them what you told them. That’s it!
Great advice but this is not a how to its an intro, nothing for free
Hi Dave, plenty of audio editing videos on YT these are concepts to use and inspire as you do it i feel.
It’s not supposed to be a “how to” video. It’s supposed to be a podcast episode! :-)
If you’re looking for free how to videos, we have tons of those! (though not so much in editing specifically). Try here to start:
ua-cam.com/play/PL3yghKGBjggTkBYyc-1_larMT6K4rGwmr.html
Hope that helps!
you talk too much I got bored of it . Try to go straight to the point
If you don't like talking, maybe the podcast format isn't for you! Here are some of our videos with audio examples instead: ua-cam.com/video/bct-5YbKGlU/v-deo.html
7:50 into the video and he still hasn’t given a single example! This is unbearable. I’m turning off
We don't do audio examples in the podcast. It's a podcast :-) If you're looking for audio examples from Justin, try any of the tons of walkthrough videos here: ua-cam.com/play/PL3yghKGBjggTkBYyc-1_larMT6K4rGwmr.html
@@SonicScoop Uncle Ted these are concepts you have to build into your own work, have you done much editing before? The concepts are what you can work with, not how to cut up audio. Plenty of videos on YT for that brah.
Waste of my time. You showed no editing at all. One long commercial for your " buy my course" shameful.
Nah mate, it's knowledge you have to build into your own work. You get nothing for free.
Ps - shameful, you're having a laugh. It's a weekly podcast where he talks about things on his mind...
Pps - by 'you get nothing for free'
i'm not talking about any of Justin's courses, i mean you will get the benefit of what he's talking about if you are editing audio yourself and could do with some concepts to inspire and use as you do it.
You can look up YT for audio editing for any DAW easy-peasy.
It’s not supposed to be a “how to” video. It’s supposed to be a podcast episode :-)
If you’re looking for free how to videos, we have tons of those! (though not so much in editing specifically). Try here to start:
ua-cam.com/play/PL3yghKGBjggTkBYyc-1_larMT6K4rGwmr.html
Hope that helps!