1:09 There is something insanely funny about the AI voice saying "Lets say you struggle with ludex Gundyr" on top of the player casually parrying him backwards and saucing him up
Coming from someone who invaded an absolute shit ton in DS3 I can say that most of these shortcuts existed just to make it easier for the invader to get to the host or escape them since they're usually out and about exploring instead of blitzing to the boss.
This is a great point. Regardless of the developer’s intentions, I think this reason makes the existence of these shortcuts actually pragmatic rather than redundant.
Doesn’t the game keep most doors locked shut for invaders? I remember going for the farron keep shortcut but because the host never opened it, I was unable to do so.
Yeah that's where I am. Did they think it would break immersion or something? Just double the speed bro, I'm pulling out my phone every time I step in one
I always felt like ds3 shortcuts were less about saving time and more about saving stress You don't have to worry about missing a roll and eating a ton of damage, or maneuvering around a bunch of enemies, or at least you don't have to worry as much In some cases, more like you choose the path you feel more comfortable taking
Yeah that’s what I was thinking during this video. It’s like exchanging efficiency for safety. The fastest path could have you take unnecessary damage before a boss, or you could take a slightly longer path to avoid all that.
I think the idea mentioned where Fromsoft was trying to recapture the feeling of Dark Souls 1 with some of the layouts in Dark Souls 3 was definitely on point. Even themes of some areas were incredibly reminiscent and a bit on the nose. One thing the devs forgot though, is that Dark Souls 1 wasn't designed based on a hallway with a couple of bedrooms and a bathroom
I seriously doubt they forgot the game they spent multiple years making. They just decided not to do it, and focused instead on a balanced, tight, linear experience
@@frazfrazfrazfrazthey actually didn't spend multiple years making it. Considering it uses the Bloodborne version of the Fromsoft engine and Dark Souls 3 came out only 14 months later, it really was made in a short timeframe.
I've said for a while now that DS3 was largely just trying to be both Bloodborne and DS1 again at the same time. It doesn't have too much of its own distinct vibe or style, and story-wise it's literally just DS1 again. Find the lords, kill them, use them to enter the kiln, relink the flame or let it die out. It had nothing particularly new to say about any of that, it was just Dark Souls played very straight, and that's a big part of why I personally found it relatively uninteresting.
@@unrefinedmorosis5546 Basically most things are just DS1 or Bloodborne, with barely any "ash" theme to anything. Not even 20% of the game is DS3. And the Demon's Souls reference that is the path to Yhorm.
@@JellyJman I said they spent several years making ds1, not ds3. And the point is I'm sure they remembered what they did and why in ds1, however long it took. It was intentional not to do it again
A lot of them are also “you finished exploring this area, heres a quick way back to the bonfire” similar to the warps at the end of dungeons in elden ring. This guy always makes his videos as if dark souls is purely a boss rush
@@StrohbergungShort cuts were just a name created by the community if I’m not mistaken. These paths were most likely just meant to provide a safer path to the boss than having to run past several enemies and lose health or flasks. They could have also been used to make the world feel a bit more lively by allowing you to have more than one way to let you get to the boss.
I'm absolutley not surprised. More on that - i think this is GOOD design (mostly, coz i not sure how much of it is intentional). Long and safe path or fast and dangerous path is classic choice, and here we see this at full display. Maybe it would be even better idea to make "shortcuts" SIGNIFICANTLY longer, to encourage people to try take a riskier route just for fun.
Shortcuts in DS3 have always felt like it's less of a shorter path, rather they feel like they're supposed to be more convenient with less enemies and/or with less dubious traversal, like not having to jump down distances that can deal damage to you or not having to do platforming. That said, I'm really disappointed that the elevators are so slow considering that almost none of them have a secret in-between floor. For instance, both of the Lothric Castle elevators should be way faster considering you never have to jump off. They've done it in previous games and iirc the Grand Archives elevator shortcut does go up faster than most elevators so I really don't know why they didn't speed up most elevators by a good bit. Sometimes it can be good for atmosphere like the cage elevators in Bloodborne's Nightmare of Mensis but most of the time you're just staring at a blank wall, left alone with your thoughts while the damn elevator trudges along. To that end I tend to even prefer the paths with more enemies because they're more engaging and I'm not bored out of my mind.
Dude you approach Dark Souls in an inquisitive and interesting way. Never have I given much thought to these particular shortcuts and you somehow made a fascinating video on them. I appreciate your work and wish you nothing but the absolute best.
All of these shortcuts exist for player convenience in order to avoid enemies / environmental hazards, the reason the shortcut in consumed king’s garden is like that is so that you can avoid getting toxic from the swamp.
ok so... they're not shortcuts but... safe-cuts? It's kinda slow yeah, but sometimes I feel like the enemies have such exceptional aiming (or teleport in some cases) that it's worth it
I agree with what you said, I think these were likely added to make the fairly linear levels 'feel' more like an interconnected world It kinda works as well from a psychological perspective, until you analyze it like this and realize it may as well just be choosing between two identical corridors lol
Anyways ds3 shortcuts are useless anyway, cuz they are much more bonfires on every second corner , the world design is more linear and not connectiv and you can warp anyways so theire is no need for shortcuts between bonfires . The shortcuts in ds3 are just fan service for the message to read "does not open from this side"
While you are somewhat right, the bonfires in Ariandel and the Ringed City levels are well spaced out, and their shortcuts are actually shortcuts. For the base game, Cathedral of the Deep is an exception to your point. Mostly.
Something to consider, DS3 originally wasn't going to have set bonfires. You would manually create bonfires with enemy corpses. Alot of DS3's level design oddities like these 'safe' not-so-shortcuts make alot more sense to me within that logic. Since the bonfires you set could theoretically be anywhere. Also, it's clear after they cut the feature they just spammed bonfires everywhere to compensate.
Thank you again Domo for pointing things out like this. I think a lot of people are mistaking this as just crapping on DS3, even though that's not what's happening here. I think it's great to analyze certain aspects of these games that we love and provide constructive criticism on how to improve for the next game. Obviously this video might not help Fromsoftware, but it could definitely help other game developers who see this video that want to make beautiful and fun worlds. When we have problems with the games we play, we should be willing to talk about it and think about what it would take to improve it. Some of these shortcuts are, as others said, justifiable for some players because of the safety they offer. Some are pretty pointless except in the case of invasions, such as the Farron Black Knight one. While it's totally okay to enjoy and accept these reasons, I don't see why we can't try to figure out how to combine all of these aspects next time around. Why would you complain that a shortcut is quick, safe, and useful for other game mechanics, you know? Think about what makes a good shortcut, find out what these ones are lacking, and improve. Not everything is about hating on the game or hating on the people who like it. It's okay to love the game, it's okay to like these design choices, and it's okay to have different opinions. No matter what, we just want to play good games and have fun doing it. I love all of the Soulsborne games, but I know that they have their faults. We're good enough people to all understand that.
lolno, he is a seething, butthurt DS2 fanboy, and like all seething, butthurt DS2 fanboys his existence revolves around crying about DS3 to cope in his sad fanboyism ffs, guy is cyring about far safer and reliable paths being bad because omg I can't save seconds on a clock, this video is as garbage and disingenuous as it gets
About your comment on profaned capital, it's unfortunate that I have to agree. It faces the same issues as redmane castle , that is 2 very important areas lore wise have less stuff going for them than some of the lesser areas/dungeons and that they can be speedruned in a minute or two. Also, I think the only reason people consider those shortcuts useful is either because they don't want to fight enemies, or they think it is shorter.
At least Redmane has actually challenging enemy formations, a *great* boss at the end, and the fact that there may not be enemies depending on *your* actions as a player. Redmane isn't meant for exploration like Legacy Dungeons, it's about the reveal at the end (The Festival). Profane Capital isn't about the design, nor the enemies and definitely not the boss, it's just nothing.
@@enman009 Redmane has the crucible misbegetton duo lmao. Radahn is fought during Radahn festival where the entire castle is empty if you forgot (you can activate the festival before going through the castle).
@@anonymous01201 Which is exactly why I said there may not be enemies depending on your actions lmao. Your choices influence whether or not you even get that duo, which is a joke after patch 1.04.
@@enman009 oh sorry haha. should have read your comment better. I guess I just read up to where you said there is a great boss at the end, replied, and forgot to read the rest
@@anonymous01201 It's ok bud. I often avoid that Duo just to fight Radahn anyways. But I also like Redmane Castle with enemies, so it was a 50/50 when I did replays on ER.
If I had to name one area I think has the perfect mix of useful and useless shortcuts that enhance interconnectivity, I'd go for Eleum Loyce. Possibly my favorite area in the trilogy. I love all the paths you can take before and after clearing the snow, and of course, I love that fuckin snowball on the bridge lmao.
I've noticed this a ton, usually I even opt for the more dangerous paths because at least I'm not sitting at a screen doing nothing for like an entire minute. Basically, they have no real practicality aside from maybe giving more options.
I feel like most of these shortcuts were made under the assumption that the player is going to fight every enemy in their path rather than running away
i always cracked up at the bonfire before the dragonslayer armour bridge, and then directly after xd still love the game though! i guess they arent really shortcuts in 3, but just more areas to explore. great vid :) and i gotta say, you got some real fashion sense in your gameplay :))
Glad you've addressed this. I have a video on my channel where I criticize DS3 level design (among many other things), and its pointless insistence on shortcuts was something I alluded to but didn't properly develop
Linear Souls 3 is a good game, yes, "good" not "great". It has the worst level design out of all souls games (not comparing it to open world ER, which has great legacy dungeons like Stormveil castle). Most of those shortcuts I felt they were weird the very first time, that something didn't feel right even after the game told me "hey it's a shortcut!".
It also depends what order you take things. If you drop down onto the rooftops and then into the alleys immediately, that door will be closer than the avenue balcony grace, and since a new player doesn't know where there might be graces in the city, that door will be a guaranteed safety net to get back to the main avenue with less time and hassle
I normally used the elevators to ember up or change my gear if needed, like, I don't need this poison antidote, but I need this golden resine, and many of these shortcuts are more about being away from enemies.
It really doesn't matter to me if they are both the same length, the one that avoids the enemies is the one I will take any given playthough on my way to a challenging boss.. which makes it not useless at all imo..
"You no longer take fall damage but take longer to get to the boss" dawg why would I wanna take damage before a boss? Also, you can drip down on the right side to get to vordt quicker
I think most of them are a tradeoff of resources, they help you avoid fights/unnecessary damage or offer a different challenge. The only useless one in my opinion is the Oceiros one... that one is criminal
Well, the shortcuts do seem to be safer. But the elevators are way too slow. Fromsoft had figured out the perfect elevator in ds2 sotfs with that last giant elevator. It had 2 of them next to each other and would always be ready for use. Its F'ing perfect. Why doesn't FS use this more often? Also, those lothric knights just highlight the crappiness of colossal weapons in ds3. The lack of knockdown REALLY makes colossal weapons feel severely underpowered. The ds2 equivalents like heide knights, etc. could be instantly poise broken and riposted to be 1 shot. Or outright pancaked.
in my experience the shortcuts were designed to allow you to reach the boss without being hit by an enemy. the time spent getting there has never been relevant to me before. it became obvious to me when i noticed that enemies were placed specifically so that you could run past them consistently without getting hit. this consistency is only possible in those specific routes and exists in later titles as well, notably in bloodborne where many of the shortcuts require you to jump from high spots but JUST barely manage not to cause any fall damage. this was not done specifically in ds1 and ds2, which reinforces my idea of it being intended game design not meant to save you time but save you trouble. that said, fuck the elevator leading to dragonslayer armor that shit was just trash
Alot of elden ring's shortcuts are pretty useless too, though ive found a use for most. Say, the elevator from the prayer room to malenia, there's literally a bonfire right before her fog wall. Play with 1 bonefire per legacy dungeon tho, maybe even taunters tongue while you do, & suddenly those shortcuts are extremely helpful. Though in that specific case, sometimes people dont follow you to the elevator & others will just bail the moment they realize who theyll be fighting 😂
Elden ring suffers the same problem cuz they spam you with grace around every corner that you can warp ever,time you want , also Most of the legacy dungeons are linear and not connectiv like ds1 so theire is no reason for back tracking
@@BrandonDurry they didnt have to spam graces w the stakes of marika existing. Hell the stakes are what make elden ring feel the most to me like a 3d megaman x game out of all fromsoft's games, or atleast w that self imposed challenge i mentioned. Each bonfire is the start of a level, the stakes being the hallway youd respawn at vs bosses in megaman. It's there so the runback is only needed til your session is done or needa change your approach vs w/e boss youre fighting- basically running outta lives in that series, or just going hollow in dark souls lol. I fw runbacks heavy, but id attribute it to growing up w that series alot. Elden ring's backtracking is there, just absolutely useless w all the bonefires. Though some of them just dont make sense either, like a few of the leyndell shortcuts just being wastes of time either way. That 1 door right next to the erdtree avatar should be blocked off & the sewer shortcuts would actually have a purpose. Didnt mean to ramble but try that self imposed challenge yourself next you play elden ring. 1 bonfire per legacy dungeon, only cleared mid bosses like say the godskin in gelmir being the acception- or not 🤷♂️ up to you. Taunters tongue is iffy cause sometimes it's dead, & sometimes it's just a sweatfest, but when it's fun it's good fun. The ruin strewn precipice is a gauntlet when there's plenty of invaders online
@@schmietwechdeschiet4340 Agreed. People tend to remember DS1 too fondly to realize that a huge chunk of what they thought was amazing is not even mid.
Sadly I played DS1 after BB and DS3, the first half wasn't amazing but enjoyable, the second half is one of the worst experiencies I've ever played in my life, but I can't say shit about DS1 without being attacked
I think part of it is not necessarily speed but they can offer some safer routes for players that want to avoid enemy encounters. Would still be cool if they saved time tho
Yeah i wouldnt count the Deacons drop shortcut as a "legit" shortcut if it requires that much health to even use. It's valid of course, but I cant see anyone want to use it over the normal way. Also, love the little sneaky jabs at DS3 throughout this.
Sir, you are not allowed to critique any fromsoftware game aside from DS2 and DS2SotfS, please remove the video immediately. 🤓 Jokes aside though, it is certainly a strange decision to just make the shortcut route "easier" or less dangerous in most cases rather than making it actually, you know.....shorter. I share the sentiment that the shortcuts in DS3 just don't feel...impactful in the same way that they felt in DS1. While I am not the biggest fan of DS1, finding a shortcut for the first time in that game or seeing how the world links up was really fun and engaging, like the world opened up just a little bit more and your understanding of its layout expanded. Here, in DS3, it just somewhat hollow. In DS3 it just feels like shortcuts are mostly there to make a runback to a boss less tedious for the most part whereas in DS1 they often functioned as an easier way to travel between areas before getting the Lordvessel. So the entire feeling is just different. But that is just my opinion. Also I hate elevators.
Hey, making a shortcut for a straight line isn't easy you know. And now that I pissed off DS3 enjoyers, here's the thing. This game might be the most polished in terms of combat, but it's almost too much. Everyone either telegraphs everything really well or is a gimmick fight, most bosses are easy first try for me. To the point where I feel like you rarely interact with runbacks at all. The only bosses I've personally had to use them were: The Abyss Watchers (1st phase I find annoying personally, 2nd phase learning 2 different weapon attack speeds is difficult for me), Champion Gundyr (I could improve at him, he is very well telegraphed), Lothric (same as Gundyr), Nameless King (left handedness makes him a bit odd, but same as Gundyr) and The Soul of Cinder (changing moveset based on weapon) (+DLC but most of them are short to non-existent, like at Sister Friede, thank God). So, with everything said, I think it doesn't really matter to be honest. I guess the "shortcuts" are safer, but rolling past enemies should be equally safe. I mean, if you can't roll past a common enemy, you won't be able to dodge the bosses well either, so you might as well get a bit of practice in.
Isn't the fact that both runbacks of an area are equally fast a good design decision? If one is objectively better (because it's faster), that makes it the preferred option, while the slower path will never be used again by the player.
People in the comments saying the alt routes are more about avoiding enemies than being shorter paths. Missing the point entirely. I saw one even try to say Fromsoft never called them shortcuts as if that's an excuse. Bruh, if it quacks like a duck. They call them shortcuts IN THE MESSAGES YOU CAN LEAVE. Pretty sure Rick and Morty never called that one "Evil" Morty either, that was all fans but didn't stop it from catching on and being the norm. These games are pretty much "built" by the community. Japanese devs love watercooler experiences in their games, so you can't pick and choose what is authorial intention and ought to be obeyed vs not, to suit your argument at the time. Why can't a shortcut be both? Less enemies and less time wasted? Indeed I think in previous games they did both.
As an invader who likes having time to actually join the session in time to slap the host before he cowadly runs towards the fog gate... I appreciate this level design.
@@elisehalflight That's a good point. I felt From also had a problem with it's basic networking. I'll load in just to immediately be sent back to my world.
I hope you don't turn your channel into something that dunks on DS3 like so many comments here would suggest. I love your DS2 videos and you rightly pointed out the hypocrazy surrounding the discussion about that game. But all Dark Souls games are flawed. And all Dark Souls games are amazing. These are no contradictions. I just love Dark Souls games man.
A lot of these are there to avoid enemies, not save time. I'd much rather take one or two long elevator rides than run past a trillion enemies. I can just zone out and relax. And, as another commenter pointed out, these shortcuts are very useful in invasions.
I don't think the DS3 shortcuts are about saving time. Unlike DS1, the second and third game removed the need for interconnectivity via shortcuts between areas by giving you the power to warp between bonfires since the start. This is also why the interconnectivity that was so present in the first half of DS1 is missing in the second half, where you no longer need it thanks to having the Lordvessel. Thus, they were designed with the idea that the player no longer needed to walk everywhere. The same is true for DS2 and 3, wich is why so many people to this day praise the level desing of DS1 as the best of the saga, wich is fair. So instead of being a matter of time, It becomes a matter of safety. Shortcuts in DS3, while not always shorter, significantly decrease the amount of fighting (or dodging) needed to reach the next Boss/area. A good example of this is the first shortcut elevator in the whole game, the one in High Wall of Lothric wich connects the first bonfire with the lower area. This elevator has only one purpose: To give new players a safer, less convoluted way to reach Vordt. Once you beat Vordt, you'll never use it again because even if you wanted to go to the bonfire at the top of the Wall for some reason, you'll just warp to it. And the bonfire that appears after his death is the closest to the Dancer for later use. Sure, there's enemies on the way, but far less than the normal path and you'll catch many of them looking the other way.
interconnectivity fell off right after undead burg. lol and the teleport was shit. Made me run thru the whole of anal londor everytime just to make a boss weapon. not too mention the 1 bonfire in izalith. 1 bonfire for a huge area. every other game with the same amount of backtracking would've gotten shit on.
@@schmietwechdeschiet4340 no, it last all the way up to Anor Londo. After Undead Burg you go to the sewers, where you unlock the shortcut to the bonfire from the central chamber where you find Domhall. Then you go down to Quelaag and take 2 shortcuts to go back to Firelink, the one to escape Blighttown and the one that goes up from Valley of Drakes. There's another shortcut in Shen Fortress that goes from the very top to the first bridge. And finally, you have three separate shortcuts in Anor Londo: the rotating bridge, the door that blocks the room with the Silver Knight armor and the main door of the central area. I understand that many of these aren't that usefull by today standarts, but DS1 isn't a hard game if we compare it with the modern games either. Back in the day, when guides were not always reliable and the skill of players was lower, these shortcuts were used often to move around. For example, the shortcut in Shen Fortress might seem useless, but It gives the fastest way to buy Large Titanite Shards from the crestfallen merchant if your weapon isn't +10 or you want to upgrade your armor. Or the second shortcut in Anor Londo is pointless today, as everyone knows to jump from the stairs to skip it, but this wasn't exactly common knowledge back then. Also, yes, backtracking in DS1 can be bothersome, but the hate for backtracking wasn't present even when DS2 released. It's a modern critique based on the way the later games are designed, where bosses where recognized as the main attractive and exploration was simplified.
DS3 is by far the most flawed game of the franchise, people ignore it because was the entry point of the franchise to the mainstream and by that was the entry game of the majority of the dark souls players
The average DS player doesn't care that going through the route that is full of enemies saves 5 seconds. The average player would rather spend an extra 5 seconds if it meant not having to potentially waste estus and other items.
The Iudex Gundyr runback doesnt have shortcuts, that was irrelevant to this video. A lot of these are alternate paths to a boss, not shortcuts. An example of this are the oceiros runbacks that you showed with which not a single one of them was a shortcut. The crystal lizard and the black knight aren't meant to be a shortcut as there is a bonfire before you encounter the crystal lizard. This is just to make the world feel cohesive (which it is). So this is yet another example of something that is irrelevant to the videos topic. Some of these shortcuts, while they aren't faster, do significantly cut down the amount of enemies you have to face and sometimes even removes any enemies in your path completely, such as the twin princes elevator. That doesnt sound very useless to me. All in all, your video has some vaild points but it is mostly just disingenuous. Some of these runbacks dont even have any shortcuts and you are trying to make the alternate paths seem like shortcuts, and a lot of these examples do actually have a use in that they avoid most of the enemies and conserve resources. And before you try and counter with "the enemies are already easy to avoid" that applies to every souls game literally ever made. Yes, even your beloved ds2. I have ran past hordes of enemies in every single game multipe times. Another problem is your title. You say in the title that ds3 has some useless runbacks. But in your first example in the video you specifcally say that it avoids the enemies. So which is it? Is it useless or is it useful? It can't be both.
Impressive is how in this comments people jump to defend From at all costs with the most surface level shit excuses. I'd rather argue about Smelter Demon being mandatory and only fake optional to new players. It's at least less shallow.
I have read every single comment and reply on this video and I have to say, yours are the most dogshit out of all the comments. What the fuck do you mean by "Casual Souls 3"? How do you even quantify that? Do you think the games would be better if the only weapon available was a broken straight sword? Because from your comments it does seem like you'd like that. I'd say we get rid of all armor also, would be a great idea, fend off the casuals! Guess what? You have the option of playing like that! You can take the most awful paths and make an awful build if that is what you prefer, that doesn't mean everyone should. Stop attacking a game thats already difficult for most people just because you see yourself as better for doing things the hard way. Go wipe your ass with sandpaper and let people enjoy their games.
And this comment is trash also. People are not defending Fromsoft with "surface level excuses", you have overly pretentious and self important arguments! Grow up! If you're good at the game(which I hope you are) and you feel acomplished by your achievements that's great, I'm happy for you! But outside of your own individual world, it makes you as good as everyone else - someone enjoying a game however they like
Ds3 is so boring all it has is mechanically simple bosses the enemy design is boring and easy just spam r1 and it’ll stun lock 95% of them. The level design is boring except for the dlc which guess what, was directed by the director of ds2 lmao.
I always felt like these shortcuts were usually for saving yourself the trouble of having to evade enemies properly. The first one seems like a direct example of this 🤔
Something I noticed after playing dark souls 2 is that it is way harder to run past everything in that game, since not enly enemies take longer to lose aggro, but also they can stab you while entering the fog gate, thus encouraging a playstyle where you must kell mist enemies before challenging the boss. This is a god sent for invaders since it means the host won't rush towads the boss after seeing you, utilizing those safer shortcuts means the host can focus on the dark Spirit if they get invaded instead of being slapped by a dark orb while trying to run past a pus of a man, and as a trade off the invader gets more time to join the session, locate the host and a good pair of seconds where the host will be vulnerable riding the elevator, everybody wins. Except the people who like to mindlessly R2 common mobs i guess
They may seem useless for you who played these games like a million time, but whats veterans might miss when they are in this "numb" state were nothing is a danger to them anymore and they just try to run to the boss as fast as they can is that these alternate paths are a miracle for new players and even if they don't save some seconds they are in many cases less dangerous. Yeah if you go with that attitude "get gid" then sure these shortcuts are useless, but remember the first time you played these games and then reconsider if they are so "useless" after all.
You always get people saying "git gud" like the games were the epitome of hard Dark souls 1 had sorceries Dark souls 2 had rapiers Dark souls 3 has SS spam All of them have summoning I always said that Dark Souls was never a difficult franchise, it just likes to play dirty.
While I do think shortcuts in DS3 are meant as safer routes, that only makes them waiting rooms with little to no gameplay, in a game where most levels look and feel like corridors with one, maybe two routed. I think it's a reason why level design in this game feels like a huge step down compared to most of the series. Still, I rather take some of these levels over the worst of DS1 and DS2.
I agree with some of your videos but saying these shortcuts are useless is disingenuous. Everyone knows they are there so you don't have to sprint the entire way and risk getting a chunk of health taken away or dying if you get hit. I'd take a slightly longer but chill elevator ride over having to sprint back and evade multiple enemies. This feels like the videos people make about DS2 that you criticize rather than legitimate complaints. You don't have to nitpick other souls games to try and make DS2 look better.
yeah, but if a shortcut doesnt save time its a bad one, because shortcuts are literally there to save time. Its even in the name. Otherwise its just an alternate, safer path to get to the boss.
@@Strohbergung where does the game say they are "shortcuts"? thats just a term use for these by the community, if you'd prefer to call them "safer routes back to the boss" then go right ahead
@@Strohbergung yeah because I don't feel like typing out explaining exactly what they are every time for the small minority of braindead people who don't understand
The way this is persistent throughout the whole game means this is def a design decision. To make shortcut more about hassle free than faster, if you are having trouble with some enemy, then the shortcut will always be faster, just because you don't have to deal with anything, to more experienced players it doesn't make that difference because you can pretty easily run and dodge every enemy. Other thing to point out is that DS1 shortcuts also count as fast backtracking, while on DS3 the only time you are going backwards on this shortcut is to activate it and nevermore
Dark Souls 3 was the first of the Souls trilogy i played and i always found it weird that people call it Fanservice 3. After i played the other 2 games i got it.
Is this a problem? Yes. Is it worth mentioning though? Not really. DS3 has much more problems than just seemingly useless shortcuts. Let's dive a little bit deeper. These useless shortcuts are product of specific enemy placement and weak enemy design which allows players just run past them without any serious concequences. Fix this and these shortcuts have use.
All Soulsborne and Soulslikes (or most) allow to run pass nearly all encounters. And when they neglect that, most times, it's annoying. DS3 issue is the gank style enemy encounters it often has.
@@enman009 it doesn't mean it's good practice. Why care about level design and shortcuts if you just run past it? Why care about good enemy variety, placement and design if you just run past it? Don't lie to yourself saying it's intended way of playing. Players turn these games into a boss rush and it's simply stupid. And why do they turn it into boss rush? Well boss quality in early game is just awful, imo, so players want to skip to good stuff ASAP. You have Cursed Tree, Volnir, Aldrich, Yorm, Ancient Wyvern - absolute dung pie tier. And other bosses aren't great too. It's only Lothric Castle when game starts to throw at you good bosses consistently, but still there's Oceiross, Gravewarden & Wolf, Halflight - so you are not immune from dung pie tier bossess. Fix this, and most players will start to enjoy game (well now it's too late already). And then don't encourage strategy of running past enemies - make game look actually beautiful and not like a grey mess, create interesting enemy encounters, make shortcuts safe so they have value, for those who cares about it, encourage exploration. And as player don't play optmizing every second of it - it's not job, you are putting to much effort for some game. Like is it really that bad if you spend 2 secs more on runback if you choose safe shortcut? Are you insane?
I don't really see the reason not to point it out. While it's incredibly unlikely someone from Fromsoft is going to see this video and go, "Oh, those shortcuts weren't so helpful, we'll do better next time!" I think that pointing out things like this in beloved video games can help other game developers and players as well when it comes to thinking a little bit harder about the games they play. This video isn't just to shit on DS3, that's not what any videos on this channel are for. It's just a genuine criticism that points out something not many of us seem to have considered before. And while I think you're right about deeper issues causing this, it doesn't really change the surface level problem here. Especially because of some of these mentioned like the Farron Black Knight one don't have much of a use for most players. And regardless which problem is more important, it still is a problem. You said it yourself. We should be willing to talk about the problems we have with the games we play, that's how good developers improve and give us an even better product next time. Anyways, I'm done talking your ear off now. Just know that it's okay to perform constructive criticism.
Personally, as someone who went through the game many times in order to make cosplay builds for invasions where I only needed to get specific items... I like being able to run past enemies, makes everything more straight forward.
@@elisehalflight well it's other problem. Personally I don't think these games make good mix of singleplayer and multiplayer modes. It's intresting as idea but if you want to make PvP build you need to complete most part of the game. Yes you have respec system but it still has shortcomings, and you still need to find and upgrade weapon of choice. It would be more convenient and easier to try different builds as separate game mode.
IMO this argument is mostly bad faith. The fact that shortcuts allow you to avoid enemies should be enough. It could even be a fair trade : avoid the enemies for 2 more seconds. Lastly the time differences you establish are so trivial that your point is not convincing.
@@Domo3000 All of the games have enemies that are incredibly easy to run past. Ds1 has it, Ds2 has it, Bloodborne has it, Sekiro has it, and elden ring has it. Acting like it's only easy to run past the enemies in Ds3 is incredibly disingenuous. You can run through at least 60% of every game without having to kill very many enemies. In fact I have run through tons of enemies in every game and have had little to no trouble at all.
As much as i love the videos this just isnt how most players play the game, a large majority try to fight most of the enemies in the way, only running past trash mobs or enemies that are sitting, so these shortcuts are more like safer paths.
Lol, dudes are really ready to hate each other because of the pixels on the Erkan. I can honestly say that you Souls fanatics are the most toxic of all single-player games. Look for any reasons to crap on someone's favorite game because they decided to say something bad about your favorite.
@@LuM4rex it’s just his opinion, he didn’t explain it but it must have some reason behind other than “people who like ds3 don’t like ds2 I have to say ds3 bad”
1:09 There is something insanely funny about the AI voice saying "Lets say you struggle with ludex Gundyr" on top of the player casually parrying him backwards and saucing him up
🤣🤣
Coming from someone who invaded an absolute shit ton in DS3 I can say that most of these shortcuts existed just to make it easier for the invader to get to the host or escape them since they're usually out and about exploring instead of blitzing to the boss.
Source?
This is the reason that makes the most sense to me.
@@Vinlaan me
This is a great point. Regardless of the developer’s intentions, I think this reason makes the existence of these shortcuts actually pragmatic rather than redundant.
Doesn’t the game keep most doors locked shut for invaders? I remember going for the farron keep shortcut but because the host never opened it, I was unable to do so.
People whining about these short cuts, shitting on the level design or what not, when the real enemy is just the elevator speed, turn that shit up
Yeah that's where I am. Did they think it would break immersion or something? Just double the speed bro, I'm pulling out my phone every time I step in one
FR they still have slow elevators in ER lmao.
@@MakioGoHardioslow elevators with abyss beneath it...
Frrr, why can't all elevators be as fast as the one in Aldrich's boss room??
@@frazfrazfrazfraz Hiding loading times on consoles is probably the reason
I always felt like ds3 shortcuts were less about saving time and more about saving stress
You don't have to worry about missing a roll and eating a ton of damage, or maneuvering around a bunch of enemies, or at least you don't have to worry as much
In some cases, more like you choose the path you feel more comfortable taking
Yeah that’s what I was thinking during this video. It’s like exchanging efficiency for safety. The fastest path could have you take unnecessary damage before a boss, or you could take a slightly longer path to avoid all that.
but it's called a shortcut, not comfycut.
@@schmietwechdeschiet4340 from soft never called it a shortcut
This.
This shortcut is much better to complete Orbeck questline
@@frazfrazfrazfraz Sure bud. Sure.
4:24 Domo casually beating Yhorm without the Storm Ruler ❤️
I think the idea mentioned where Fromsoft was trying to recapture the feeling of Dark Souls 1 with some of the layouts in Dark Souls 3 was definitely on point. Even themes of some areas were incredibly reminiscent and a bit on the nose.
One thing the devs forgot though, is that Dark Souls 1 wasn't designed based on a hallway with a couple of bedrooms and a bathroom
I seriously doubt they forgot the game they spent multiple years making. They just decided not to do it, and focused instead on a balanced, tight, linear experience
@@frazfrazfrazfrazthey actually didn't spend multiple years making it. Considering it uses the Bloodborne version of the Fromsoft engine and Dark Souls 3 came out only 14 months later, it really was made in a short timeframe.
I've said for a while now that DS3 was largely just trying to be both Bloodborne and DS1 again at the same time. It doesn't have too much of its own distinct vibe or style, and story-wise it's literally just DS1 again. Find the lords, kill them, use them to enter the kiln, relink the flame or let it die out. It had nothing particularly new to say about any of that, it was just Dark Souls played very straight, and that's a big part of why I personally found it relatively uninteresting.
@@unrefinedmorosis5546 Basically most things are just DS1 or Bloodborne, with barely any "ash" theme to anything.
Not even 20% of the game is DS3.
And the Demon's Souls reference that is the path to Yhorm.
@@JellyJman I said they spent several years making ds1, not ds3. And the point is I'm sure they remembered what they did and why in ds1, however long it took. It was intentional not to do it again
"Save half a second", man, this isn't a Speedrun, the shortcuts make for a safer runback
A lot of them are also “you finished exploring this area, heres a quick way back to the bonfire” similar to the warps at the end of dungeons in elden ring. This guy always makes his videos as if dark souls is purely a boss rush
Honestly, I don’t care if the shortcut doesn’t save any time. If I don’t have to run through a horde of enemies then it’s a top tier shortcut
but a shortcut is supposed to save time. its literally in the name. Otherwise it isnt a shortcut, just an alternate way of getting to the boss.
@@StrohbergungShort cuts were just a name created by the community if I’m not mistaken. These paths were most likely just meant to provide a safer path to the boss than having to run past several enemies and lose health or flasks. They could have also been used to make the world feel a bit more lively by allowing you to have more than one way to let you get to the boss.
Never at any point did these feel like shortcuts. They saved us the headache of getting hit on the run back to the boss.
Yeah that shortcut by the last bonfire is so strange. They could've just made it be open or make the wooden walkway be accessible from the ground.
I'm absolutley not surprised. More on that - i think this is GOOD design (mostly, coz i not sure how much of it is intentional). Long and safe path or fast and dangerous path is classic choice, and here we see this at full display. Maybe it would be even better idea to make "shortcuts" SIGNIFICANTLY longer, to encourage people to try take a riskier route just for fun.
Shortcuts in DS3 have always felt like it's less of a shorter path, rather they feel like they're supposed to be more convenient with less enemies and/or with less dubious traversal, like not having to jump down distances that can deal damage to you or not having to do platforming. That said, I'm really disappointed that the elevators are so slow considering that almost none of them have a secret in-between floor. For instance, both of the Lothric Castle elevators should be way faster considering you never have to jump off. They've done it in previous games and iirc the Grand Archives elevator shortcut does go up faster than most elevators so I really don't know why they didn't speed up most elevators by a good bit. Sometimes it can be good for atmosphere like the cage elevators in Bloodborne's Nightmare of Mensis but most of the time you're just staring at a blank wall, left alone with your thoughts while the damn elevator trudges along. To that end I tend to even prefer the paths with more enemies because they're more engaging and I'm not bored out of my mind.
DS fans when DS2 lacks shortcuts: 😡😡😡😡😡
DS fans when DS3 has longer shortcuts than main paths: 🎉😁😁🤩👏👏
Because they arent shortcuts.
Those are not shortcuts bruh game is as lineal as a rollercoaster
Dude you approach Dark Souls in an inquisitive and interesting way. Never have I given much thought to these particular shortcuts and you somehow made a fascinating video on them. I appreciate your work and wish you nothing but the absolute best.
Once again I thank you very much for your strong support!
I think this video just really shows that those elevators are slow as hell.
All of these shortcuts exist for player convenience in order to avoid enemies / environmental hazards, the reason the shortcut in consumed king’s garden is like that is so that you can avoid getting toxic from the swamp.
I call them more of a convenance cut than shortcut.
"No disrespect to the second tree, he's the real MVP."
🤣 *Brutal!*
ok so... they're not shortcuts but... safe-cuts? It's kinda slow yeah, but sometimes I feel like the enemies have such exceptional aiming (or teleport in some cases) that it's worth it
Tbh they avoid mobs and that's kinda the point
the lothric castle shortcut is still good cause it just means you avoid potentially getting hit by enemies
I agree with what you said, I think these were likely added to make the fairly linear levels 'feel' more like an interconnected world
It kinda works as well from a psychological perspective, until you analyze it like this and realize it may as well just be choosing between two identical corridors lol
It's choosing between running a course through a field of enemies or looking at your phone while in the elevator, i know which path I'd pick
Anyways ds3 shortcuts are useless anyway, cuz they are much more bonfires on every second corner , the world design is more linear and not connectiv and you can warp anyways so theire is no need for shortcuts between bonfires . The shortcuts in ds3 are just fan service for the message to read "does not open from this side"
the Dragonslayer's armor bonfire to the duke archives bonfire 😂
@@abrahamrangel2326it's one of the funniest bonfire placements for sure.
DING DING DING WE GOT A GUY THAT SAID FAN SERVICE EVERYONE
While you are somewhat right, the bonfires in Ariandel and the Ringed City levels are well spaced out, and their shortcuts are actually shortcuts.
For the base game, Cathedral of the Deep is an exception to your point. Mostly.
@@ldeeevs1747 yeah the dlc's and Cathedral of the deep are the exeption
I replayed Dark Souls 3 this year and had the same exact suspicion! 😂😂😂
Something to consider, DS3 originally wasn't going to have set bonfires. You would manually create bonfires with enemy corpses.
Alot of DS3's level design oddities like these 'safe' not-so-shortcuts make alot more sense to me within that logic. Since the bonfires you set could theoretically be anywhere.
Also, it's clear after they cut the feature they just spammed bonfires everywhere to compensate.
My favorite is the door between farron keep and the road of sacrifices.
Thank you again Domo for pointing things out like this. I think a lot of people are mistaking this as just crapping on DS3, even though that's not what's happening here. I think it's great to analyze certain aspects of these games that we love and provide constructive criticism on how to improve for the next game. Obviously this video might not help Fromsoftware, but it could definitely help other game developers who see this video that want to make beautiful and fun worlds. When we have problems with the games we play, we should be willing to talk about it and think about what it would take to improve it. Some of these shortcuts are, as others said, justifiable for some players because of the safety they offer. Some are pretty pointless except in the case of invasions, such as the Farron Black Knight one. While it's totally okay to enjoy and accept these reasons, I don't see why we can't try to figure out how to combine all of these aspects next time around. Why would you complain that a shortcut is quick, safe, and useful for other game mechanics, you know? Think about what makes a good shortcut, find out what these ones are lacking, and improve. Not everything is about hating on the game or hating on the people who like it. It's okay to love the game, it's okay to like these design choices, and it's okay to have different opinions. No matter what, we just want to play good games and have fun doing it.
I love all of the Soulsborne games, but I know that they have their faults. We're good enough people to all understand that.
lolno, he is a seething, butthurt DS2 fanboy, and like all seething, butthurt DS2 fanboys his existence revolves around crying about DS3 to cope in his sad fanboyism
ffs, guy is cyring about far safer and reliable paths being bad because omg I can't save seconds on a clock, this video is as garbage and disingenuous as it gets
About your comment on profaned capital, it's unfortunate that I have to agree. It faces the same issues as redmane castle , that is 2 very important areas lore wise have less stuff going for them than some of the lesser areas/dungeons and that they can be speedruned in a minute or two.
Also, I think the only reason people consider those shortcuts useful is either because they don't want to fight enemies, or they think it is shorter.
At least Redmane has actually challenging enemy formations, a *great* boss at the end, and the fact that there may not be enemies depending on *your* actions as a player.
Redmane isn't meant for exploration like Legacy Dungeons, it's about the reveal at the end (The Festival). Profane Capital isn't about the design, nor the enemies and definitely not the boss, it's just nothing.
@@enman009 Redmane has the crucible misbegetton duo lmao. Radahn is fought during Radahn festival where the entire castle is empty if you forgot (you can activate the festival before going through the castle).
@@anonymous01201 Which is exactly why I said there may not be enemies depending on your actions lmao. Your choices influence whether or not you even get that duo, which is a joke after patch 1.04.
@@enman009 oh sorry haha. should have read your comment better. I guess I just read up to where you said there is a great boss at the end, replied, and forgot to read the rest
@@anonymous01201 It's ok bud. I often avoid that Duo just to fight Radahn anyways. But I also like Redmane Castle with enemies, so it was a 50/50 when I did replays on ER.
If I had to name one area I think has the perfect mix of useful and useless shortcuts that enhance interconnectivity, I'd go for Eleum Loyce. Possibly my favorite area in the trilogy. I love all the paths you can take before and after clearing the snow, and of course, I love that fuckin snowball on the bridge lmao.
I was howling laughing at the footage of you fighting Gundyr
I've noticed this a ton, usually I even opt for the more dangerous paths because at least I'm not sitting at a screen doing nothing for like an entire minute. Basically, they have no real practicality aside from maybe giving more options.
These feel more like an alternate path than shortcuts
Domo, you have such a beautiful voice
I feel like most of these shortcuts were made under the assumption that the player is going to fight every enemy in their path rather than running away
lol. I never knew that you could throw that tree. That would have saved me so much trouble :(
i always cracked up at the bonfire before the dragonslayer armour bridge, and then directly after xd still love the game though! i guess they arent really shortcuts in 3, but just more areas to explore.
great vid :)
and i gotta say, you got some real fashion sense in your gameplay :))
I think a lot of these shortcuts are more useful for farming enemies than anything else.
Glad you've addressed this. I have a video on my channel where I criticize DS3 level design (among many other things), and its pointless insistence on shortcuts was something I alluded to but didn't properly develop
I can't find that video on your channel. I only see three videos
@@Domo3000 I talk about DS3 and BB in the first 30-40 minutes of the Elden ring video
Linear Souls 3 is a good game, yes, "good" not "great". It has the worst level design out of all souls games (not comparing it to open world ER, which has great legacy dungeons like Stormveil castle).
Most of those shortcuts I felt they were weird the very first time, that something didn't feel right even after the game told me "hey it's a shortcut!".
grey souls 3
Grey souls 3, DS half the game bad, dscircle strafe all bosses for an easy win.
All souls games suck this is not said ironically
@@abrahamrangel2326 true unironically overrated.
They tryied to mimick bloodborne, but ultimately failed...
@@schnozgaming989 it really is just BB but worse in every aspect outside of bosses lmao.
theres some in Elden Ring too, like that door that takes you back to the beginning of the capitol midway thru for no reason
they were probably expecting people to use it for the tree sentinel, that’s the only way I can make sense of it’s inclusion.
@@MakioGoHardio i always run past it for the avenue balcony grace, i guess it would be a faster route to morgotts tower area
@@KidCypherTV yea that’s exactly what I do as well.
It also depends what order you take things. If you drop down onto the rooftops and then into the alleys immediately, that door will be closer than the avenue balcony grace, and since a new player doesn't know where there might be graces in the city, that door will be a guaranteed safety net to get back to the main avenue with less time and hassle
Pretty much all of elden ring's shortcuts are nearly useless, they can't even be compared to ds3's shortcuts
I normally used the elevators to ember up or change my gear if needed, like, I don't need this poison antidote, but I need this golden resine, and many of these shortcuts are more about being away from enemies.
can you do this with the other games too, to see if they also have fake shortcuts
for me the purpose of dark souls shortcuts was never to make the runbacks shorter in time, but to be able to skip all the enemies
Clever video idea!
It really doesn't matter to me if they are both the same length, the one that avoids the enemies is the one I will take any given playthough on my way to a challenging boss.. which makes it not useless at all imo..
"You no longer take fall damage but take longer to get to the boss" dawg why would I wanna take damage before a boss? Also, you can drip down on the right side to get to vordt quicker
I dont know if anyone here has played lies of p but that games has better shortcuts overall than this game for sure.
So true! Lies of P's just goated
I think the point it's running past enemies and mangon stamina still feels like work. An elevator just feels easier
Genuinely perfect game🎉
Cool concept. Nice vid
still peak
Bro really loves Dark Souls 3 :)
I think most of them are a tradeoff of resources, they help you avoid fights/unnecessary damage or offer a different challenge. The only useless one in my opinion is the Oceiros one... that one is criminal
Well, the shortcuts do seem to be safer. But the elevators are way too slow. Fromsoft had figured out the perfect elevator in ds2 sotfs with that last giant elevator. It had 2 of them next to each other and would always be ready for use. Its F'ing perfect. Why doesn't FS use this more often?
Also, those lothric knights just highlight the crappiness of colossal weapons in ds3. The lack of knockdown REALLY makes colossal weapons feel severely underpowered. The ds2 equivalents like heide knights, etc. could be instantly poise broken and riposted to be 1 shot. Or outright pancaked.
in my experience the shortcuts were designed to allow you to reach the boss without being hit by an enemy. the time spent getting there has never been relevant to me before. it became obvious to me when i noticed that enemies were placed specifically so that you could run past them consistently without getting hit. this consistency is only possible in those specific routes and exists in later titles as well, notably in bloodborne where many of the shortcuts require you to jump from high spots but JUST barely manage not to cause any fall damage. this was not done specifically in ds1 and ds2, which reinforces my idea of it being intended game design not meant to save you time but save you trouble. that said, fuck the elevator leading to dragonslayer armor that shit was just trash
Honestly that might just be cope.
do you plan on making a run back video with DeS, sekiro, bloodborne and ER?
Alot of elden ring's shortcuts are pretty useless too, though ive found a use for most. Say, the elevator from the prayer room to malenia, there's literally a bonfire right before her fog wall. Play with 1 bonefire per legacy dungeon tho, maybe even taunters tongue while you do, & suddenly those shortcuts are extremely helpful. Though in that specific case, sometimes people dont follow you to the elevator & others will just bail the moment they realize who theyll be fighting 😂
Elden ring suffers the same problem cuz they spam you with grace around every corner that you can warp ever,time you want , also Most of the legacy dungeons are linear and not connectiv like ds1 so theire is no reason for back tracking
@@BrandonDurry they didnt have to spam graces w the stakes of marika existing. Hell the stakes are what make elden ring feel the most to me like a 3d megaman x game out of all fromsoft's games, or atleast w that self imposed challenge i mentioned. Each bonfire is the start of a level, the stakes being the hallway youd respawn at vs bosses in megaman. It's there so the runback is only needed til your session is done or needa change your approach vs w/e boss youre fighting- basically running outta lives in that series, or just going hollow in dark souls lol. I fw runbacks heavy, but id attribute it to growing up w that series alot. Elden ring's backtracking is there, just absolutely useless w all the bonefires. Though some of them just dont make sense either, like a few of the leyndell shortcuts just being wastes of time either way. That 1 door right next to the erdtree avatar should be blocked off & the sewer shortcuts would actually have a purpose.
Didnt mean to ramble but try that self imposed challenge yourself next you play elden ring. 1 bonfire per legacy dungeon, only cleared mid bosses like say the godskin in gelmir being the acception- or not 🤷♂️ up to you. Taunters tongue is iffy cause sometimes it's dead, & sometimes it's just a sweatfest, but when it's fun it's good fun. The ruin strewn precipice is a gauntlet when there's plenty of invaders online
DS1 did shortcuts better, since most of them you're supposed to backtrack early in the game.
nah, after undead burg, they are also dogshit. Just be honest. Especially considering the stupid restrictive teleporting system.
@@schmietwechdeschiet4340 Agreed. People tend to remember DS1 too fondly to realize that a huge chunk of what they thought was amazing is not even mid.
@@schmietwechdeschiet4340yea the shortcuts don’t make much a difference when you’re character is a turtle on land.
Sadly I played DS1 after BB and DS3, the first half wasn't amazing but enjoyable, the second half is one of the worst experiencies I've ever played in my life, but I can't say shit about DS1 without being attacked
@@Leonardo-so7db ds1 is half good and half misery.
I think part of it is not necessarily speed but they can offer some safer routes for players that want to avoid enemy encounters. Would still be cool if they saved time tho
Yeah i wouldnt count the Deacons drop shortcut as a "legit" shortcut if it requires that much health to even use. It's valid of course, but I cant see anyone want to use it over the normal way.
Also, love the little sneaky jabs at DS3 throughout this.
the game audio is a bit too loud in a few moments
It seems pretty obvious these aren't shortcuts, really, but enemy-free run backs.
Sir, you are not allowed to critique any fromsoftware game aside from DS2 and DS2SotfS, please remove the video immediately. 🤓
Jokes aside though, it is certainly a strange decision to just make the shortcut route "easier" or less dangerous in most cases rather than making it actually, you know.....shorter.
I share the sentiment that the shortcuts in DS3 just don't feel...impactful in the same way that they felt in DS1. While I am not the biggest fan of DS1, finding a shortcut for the first time in that game or seeing how the world links up was really fun and engaging, like the world opened up just a little bit more and your understanding of its layout expanded. Here, in DS3, it just somewhat hollow.
In DS3 it just feels like shortcuts are mostly there to make a runback to a boss less tedious for the most part whereas in DS1 they often functioned as an easier way to travel between areas before getting the Lordvessel. So the entire feeling is just different.
But that is just my opinion. Also I hate elevators.
Hey, making a shortcut for a straight line isn't easy you know.
And now that I pissed off DS3 enjoyers, here's the thing. This game might be the most polished in terms of combat, but it's almost too much. Everyone either telegraphs everything really well or is a gimmick fight, most bosses are easy first try for me. To the point where I feel like you rarely interact with runbacks at all. The only bosses I've personally had to use them were: The Abyss Watchers (1st phase I find annoying personally, 2nd phase learning 2 different weapon attack speeds is difficult for me), Champion Gundyr (I could improve at him, he is very well telegraphed), Lothric (same as Gundyr), Nameless King (left handedness makes him a bit odd, but same as Gundyr) and The Soul of Cinder (changing moveset based on weapon) (+DLC but most of them are short to non-existent, like at Sister Friede, thank God).
So, with everything said, I think it doesn't really matter to be honest. I guess the "shortcuts" are safer, but rolling past enemies should be equally safe. I mean, if you can't roll past a common enemy, you won't be able to dodge the bosses well either, so you might as well get a bit of practice in.
Isn't the fact that both runbacks of an area are equally fast a good design decision? If one is objectively better (because it's faster), that makes it the preferred option, while the slower path will never be used again by the player.
So shortcuts for shortcuts' sake?
People in the comments saying the alt routes are more about avoiding enemies than being shorter paths. Missing the point entirely. I saw one even try to say Fromsoft never called them shortcuts as if that's an excuse. Bruh, if it quacks like a duck. They call them shortcuts IN THE MESSAGES YOU CAN LEAVE.
Pretty sure Rick and Morty never called that one "Evil" Morty either, that was all fans but didn't stop it from catching on and being the norm.
These games are pretty much "built" by the community. Japanese devs love watercooler experiences in their games, so you can't pick and choose what is authorial intention and ought to be obeyed vs not, to suit your argument at the time.
Why can't a shortcut be both? Less enemies and less time wasted? Indeed I think in previous games they did both.
Indeed, the "must defend From at all costs" people are just silly.
Well unlike previous games, ds3 has way more fewer shit runbacks
@@xsubzerox3412 Did you watch the video? I'd say a runback that takes a long time is pretty shit.
As an invader who likes having time to actually join the session in time to slap the host before he cowadly runs towards the fog gate...
I appreciate this level design.
@@elisehalflight That's a good point. I felt From also had a problem with it's basic networking. I'll load in just to immediately be sent back to my world.
I hope you don't turn your channel into something that dunks on DS3 like so many comments here would suggest. I love your DS2 videos and you rightly pointed out the hypocrazy surrounding the discussion about that game.
But all Dark Souls games are flawed. And all Dark Souls games are amazing. These are no contradictions.
I just love Dark Souls games man.
If you like dark souls 3 you have problems it's not even half as good as dark souls 2
A lot of these are there to avoid enemies, not save time. I'd much rather take one or two long elevator rides than run past a trillion enemies. I can just zone out and relax. And, as another commenter pointed out, these shortcuts are very useful in invasions.
Only after the host opens them.
Therefore they kinda suck.
@@asdergold1 You can't escape the "Does not open from this side" even as an invader... truly a meme of all memes.
I don't think the DS3 shortcuts are about saving time.
Unlike DS1, the second and third game removed the need for interconnectivity via shortcuts between areas by giving you the power to warp between bonfires since the start. This is also why the interconnectivity that was so present in the first half of DS1 is missing in the second half, where you no longer need it thanks to having the Lordvessel. Thus, they were designed with the idea that the player no longer needed to walk everywhere. The same is true for DS2 and 3, wich is why so many people to this day praise the level desing of DS1 as the best of the saga, wich is fair.
So instead of being a matter of time, It becomes a matter of safety. Shortcuts in DS3, while not always shorter, significantly decrease the amount of fighting (or dodging) needed to reach the next Boss/area.
A good example of this is the first shortcut elevator in the whole game, the one in High Wall of Lothric wich connects the first bonfire with the lower area. This elevator has only one purpose: To give new players a safer, less convoluted way to reach Vordt. Once you beat Vordt, you'll never use it again because even if you wanted to go to the bonfire at the top of the Wall for some reason, you'll just warp to it. And the bonfire that appears after his death is the closest to the Dancer for later use. Sure, there's enemies on the way, but far less than the normal path and you'll catch many of them looking the other way.
interconnectivity fell off right after undead burg. lol
and the teleport was shit. Made me run thru the whole of anal londor everytime just to make a boss weapon. not too mention the 1 bonfire in izalith. 1 bonfire for a huge area.
every other game with the same amount of backtracking would've gotten shit on.
@@schmietwechdeschiet4340 no, it last all the way up to Anor Londo. After Undead Burg you go to the sewers, where you unlock the shortcut to the bonfire from the central chamber where you find Domhall. Then you go down to Quelaag and take 2 shortcuts to go back to Firelink, the one to escape Blighttown and the one that goes up from Valley of Drakes.
There's another shortcut in Shen Fortress that goes from the very top to the first bridge. And finally, you have three separate shortcuts in Anor Londo: the rotating bridge, the door that blocks the room with the Silver Knight armor and the main door of the central area.
I understand that many of these aren't that usefull by today standarts, but DS1 isn't a hard game if we compare it with the modern games either. Back in the day, when guides were not always reliable and the skill of players was lower, these shortcuts were used often to move around. For example, the shortcut in Shen Fortress might seem useless, but It gives the fastest way to buy Large Titanite Shards from the crestfallen merchant if your weapon isn't +10 or you want to upgrade your armor. Or the second shortcut in Anor Londo is pointless today, as everyone knows to jump from the stairs to skip it, but this wasn't exactly common knowledge back then.
Also, yes, backtracking in DS1 can be bothersome, but the hate for backtracking wasn't present even when DS2 released. It's a modern critique based on the way the later games are designed, where bosses where recognized as the main attractive and exploration was simplified.
Then they are shitcuts. Safer doesn't mean better. They just traded one shit for another shit.
A shortcut is supposed to be better.
DS3 is such an uninspired BLAH game and yet ppl cant stop riding its meat
Elden ring is worse yet is the most popular
ds3 level design is the worst in the series,its a literal straight line.
ds3 was a mistake.
❤
Um dude you fucked up with the vordt example. No one takes that route with the shortcut
DS3 is by far the most flawed game of the franchise, people ignore it because was the entry point of the franchise to the mainstream and by that was the entry game of the majority of the dark souls players
People loved it because they wanted souls games to be boss rush simulators
@@abrahamrangel2326 Pretty much, what saves the game are the bosses and the landscapes(and the dlcs that are far better than the main game)
@@abrahamrangel2326 souls games should be boss rush simulators
@@edgy4903 not against it but at least the mfs should improve combat ffs
The average DS player doesn't care that going through the route that is full of enemies saves 5 seconds. The average player would rather spend an extra 5 seconds if it meant not having to potentially waste estus and other items.
The Iudex Gundyr runback doesnt have shortcuts, that was irrelevant to this video. A lot of these are alternate paths to a boss, not shortcuts. An example of this are the oceiros runbacks that you showed with which not a single one of them was a shortcut.
The crystal lizard and the black knight aren't meant to be a shortcut as there is a bonfire before you encounter the crystal lizard. This is just to make the world feel cohesive (which it is). So this is yet another example of something that is irrelevant to the videos topic.
Some of these shortcuts, while they aren't faster, do significantly cut down the amount of enemies you have to face and sometimes even removes any enemies in your path completely, such as the twin princes elevator. That doesnt sound very useless to me.
All in all, your video has some vaild points but it is mostly just disingenuous. Some of these runbacks dont even have any shortcuts and you are trying to make the alternate paths seem like shortcuts, and a lot of these examples do actually have a use in that they avoid most of the enemies and conserve resources. And before you try and counter with "the enemies are already easy to avoid" that applies to every souls game literally ever made. Yes, even your beloved ds2. I have ran past hordes of enemies in every single game multipe times.
Another problem is your title. You say in the title that ds3 has some useless runbacks. But in your first example in the video you specifcally say that it avoids the enemies. So which is it? Is it useless or is it useful? It can't be both.
Impressive is how in this comments people jump to defend From at all costs with the most surface level shit excuses.
I'd rather argue about Smelter Demon being mandatory and only fake optional to new players. It's at least less shallow.
?
I have read every single comment and reply on this video and I have to say, yours are the most dogshit out of all the comments. What the fuck do you mean by "Casual Souls 3"? How do you even quantify that?
Do you think the games would be better if the only weapon available was a broken straight sword? Because from your comments it does seem like you'd like that. I'd say we get rid of all armor also, would be a great idea, fend off the casuals!
Guess what? You have the option of playing like that! You can take the most awful paths and make an awful build if that is what you prefer, that doesn't mean everyone should.
Stop attacking a game thats already difficult for most people just because you see yourself as better for doing things the hard way. Go wipe your ass with sandpaper and let people enjoy their games.
And this comment is trash also. People are not defending Fromsoft with "surface level excuses", you have overly pretentious and self important arguments! Grow up! If you're good at the game(which I hope you are) and you feel acomplished by your achievements that's great, I'm happy for you! But outside of your own individual world, it makes you as good as everyone else - someone enjoying a game however they like
Basically DS2 > DS3
🗿
If you like bad games
@@milesmonacothesequel2294if you like bad games then you like ds3 and elden ring yeah
@@abrahamrangel2326 all the souls games are good but ds2 is definitely my fav
@@abrahamrangel2326 there's no "bad souls game" only "bad souls community"
that's because dark souls shortcuts aren't about saving time, they're about saving resources
Ds3 is so boring all it has is mechanically simple bosses the enemy design is boring and easy just spam r1 and it’ll stun lock 95% of them.
The level design is boring except for the dlc which guess what, was directed by the director of ds2 lmao.
I always felt like these shortcuts were usually for saving yourself the trouble of having to evade enemies properly. The first one seems like a direct example of this 🤔
They are still shit shortcuts.
Safer being better only appeals to cowards. From just traded one turd for another.
Casual Souls 3, I guess.
Something I noticed after playing dark souls 2 is that it is way harder to run past everything in that game, since not enly enemies take longer to lose aggro, but also they can stab you while entering the fog gate, thus encouraging a playstyle where you must kell mist enemies before challenging the boss.
This is a god sent for invaders since it means the host won't rush towads the boss after seeing you, utilizing those safer shortcuts means the host can focus on the dark Spirit if they get invaded instead of being slapped by a dark orb while trying to run past a pus of a man, and as a trade off the invader gets more time to join the session, locate the host and a good pair of seconds where the host will be vulnerable riding the elevator, everybody wins.
Except the people who like to mindlessly R2 common mobs i guess
@@asdergold1 If they were actually good shortcuts aren’t you still a coward for taking them?
bruh
They may seem useless for you who played these games like a million time, but whats veterans might miss when they are in this "numb" state were nothing is a danger to them anymore and they just try to run to the boss as fast as they can is that these alternate paths are a miracle for new players and even if they don't save some seconds they are in many cases less dangerous. Yeah if you go with that attitude "get gid" then sure these shortcuts are useless, but remember the first time you played these games and then reconsider if they are so "useless" after all.
You always get people saying "git gud" like the games were the epitome of hard
Dark souls 1 had sorceries
Dark souls 2 had rapiers
Dark souls 3 has SS spam
All of them have summoning
I always said that Dark Souls was never a difficult franchise, it just likes to play dirty.
While I do think shortcuts in DS3 are meant as safer routes, that only makes them waiting rooms with little to no gameplay, in a game where most levels look and feel like corridors with one, maybe two routed. I think it's a reason why level design in this game feels like a huge step down compared to most of the series.
Still, I rather take some of these levels over the worst of DS1 and DS2.
hehehe the sporadic hitbox shade is just 💋🤌🤌🤌 great video as always
I agree with some of your videos but saying these shortcuts are useless is disingenuous. Everyone knows they are there so you don't have to sprint the entire way and risk getting a chunk of health taken away or dying if you get hit. I'd take a slightly longer but chill elevator ride over having to sprint back and evade multiple enemies. This feels like the videos people make about DS2 that you criticize rather than legitimate complaints. You don't have to nitpick other souls games to try and make DS2 look better.
yeah, but if a shortcut doesnt save time its a bad one, because shortcuts are literally there to save time. Its even in the name. Otherwise its just an alternate, safer path to get to the boss.
@@Strohbergung where does the game say they are "shortcuts"? thats just a term use for these by the community, if you'd prefer to call them "safer routes back to the boss" then go right ahead
@@whodatiscody what do you mean, you called them shortcuts yourself.
@@Strohbergung yeah because I don't feel like typing out explaining exactly what they are every time for the small minority of braindead people who don't understand
Imo domo doesn‘t say they are useless at all, they „save you a few headaches“ 0:40, but they don‘t save time - which is both true…
intro physically and mentally hurts me 😭😭
The way this is persistent throughout the whole game means this is def a design decision. To make shortcut more about hassle free than faster, if you are having trouble with some enemy, then the shortcut will always be faster, just because you don't have to deal with anything, to more experienced players it doesn't make that difference because you can pretty easily run and dodge every enemy.
Other thing to point out is that DS1 shortcuts also count as fast backtracking, while on DS3 the only time you are going backwards on this shortcut is to activate it and nevermore
So, Casual Souls 3?
@@asdergold1 Always has been
BRO WHY THE FU*K YOU DON'T PICK UP THE ITEMS?????
Ah yes, Shit Souls 3
R1 spam Souls 3
i wouldnt say shit souls 3, just not good souls 3.
Dark Souls 3 was the first of the Souls trilogy i played and i always found it weird that people call it Fanservice 3. After i played the other 2 games i got it.
Real
Roll Souls 3
yeah the point is to avoid the 100 enemies lmao
Is this a problem? Yes. Is it worth mentioning though? Not really. DS3 has much more problems than just seemingly useless shortcuts. Let's dive a little bit deeper. These useless shortcuts are product of specific enemy placement and weak enemy design which allows players just run past them without any serious concequences. Fix this and these shortcuts have use.
All Soulsborne and Soulslikes (or most) allow to run pass nearly all encounters. And when they neglect that, most times, it's annoying. DS3 issue is the gank style enemy encounters it often has.
@@enman009 it doesn't mean it's good practice. Why care about level design and shortcuts if you just run past it? Why care about good enemy variety, placement and design if you just run past it? Don't lie to yourself saying it's intended way of playing. Players turn these games into a boss rush and it's simply stupid.
And why do they turn it into boss rush? Well boss quality in early game is just awful, imo, so players want to skip to good stuff ASAP. You have Cursed Tree, Volnir, Aldrich, Yorm, Ancient Wyvern - absolute dung pie tier. And other bosses aren't great too. It's only Lothric Castle when game starts to throw at you good bosses consistently, but still there's Oceiross, Gravewarden & Wolf, Halflight - so you are not immune from dung pie tier bossess. Fix this, and most players will start to enjoy game (well now it's too late already). And then don't encourage strategy of running past enemies - make game look actually beautiful and not like a grey mess, create interesting enemy encounters, make shortcuts safe so they have value, for those who cares about it, encourage exploration. And as player don't play optmizing every second of it - it's not job, you are putting to much effort for some game. Like is it really that bad if you spend 2 secs more on runback if you choose safe shortcut? Are you insane?
I don't really see the reason not to point it out. While it's incredibly unlikely someone from Fromsoft is going to see this video and go, "Oh, those shortcuts weren't so helpful, we'll do better next time!" I think that pointing out things like this in beloved video games can help other game developers and players as well when it comes to thinking a little bit harder about the games they play. This video isn't just to shit on DS3, that's not what any videos on this channel are for. It's just a genuine criticism that points out something not many of us seem to have considered before. And while I think you're right about deeper issues causing this, it doesn't really change the surface level problem here. Especially because of some of these mentioned like the Farron Black Knight one don't have much of a use for most players. And regardless which problem is more important, it still is a problem. You said it yourself. We should be willing to talk about the problems we have with the games we play, that's how good developers improve and give us an even better product next time. Anyways, I'm done talking your ear off now. Just know that it's okay to perform constructive criticism.
Personally, as someone who went through the game many times in order to make cosplay builds for invasions where I only needed to get specific items...
I like being able to run past enemies, makes everything more straight forward.
@@elisehalflight well it's other problem. Personally I don't think these games make good mix of singleplayer and multiplayer modes. It's intresting as idea but if you want to make PvP build you need to complete most part of the game. Yes you have respec system but it still has shortcomings, and you still need to find and upgrade weapon of choice. It would be more convenient and easier to try different builds as separate game mode.
IMO this argument is mostly bad faith.
The fact that shortcuts allow you to avoid enemies should be enough.
It could even be a fair trade : avoid the enemies for 2 more seconds.
Lastly the time differences you establish are so trivial that your point is not convincing.
Avoiding enemies would be a valid argument if DS3 had enemies that weren't so trivially easy to just run past
@@Domo3000Dogs.
Way to avoid legitimate criticism
@@Domo3000 Player’s skill can’t be used as an argument in a game design context
@@Domo3000 All of the games have enemies that are incredibly easy to run past. Ds1 has it, Ds2 has it, Bloodborne has it, Sekiro has it, and elden ring has it. Acting like it's only easy to run past the enemies in Ds3 is incredibly disingenuous. You can run through at least 60% of every game without having to kill very many enemies. In fact I have run through tons of enemies in every game and have had little to no trouble at all.
Careful, there are suddenly too many crying DS2 fans in the comments.
ironically youre the first comment i saw, mentioning Ds2. This Video is about Ds3, what does it have to do with Ds2?
you should go back to spamming threads on /v/, schizo
I don't even know what half the words you used mean
@@Domo3000 "I am illiterate" skill issue
As much as i love the videos this just isnt how most players play the game, a large majority try to fight most of the enemies in the way, only running past trash mobs or enemies that are sitting, so these shortcuts are more like safer paths.
Wait, is this video just AI?
ds3 is the worst in the series.
Not as boring and garbage as ds1.
Sorry elden ring took the crown
Lol, dudes are really ready to hate each other because of the pixels on the Erkan. I can honestly say that you Souls fanatics are the most toxic of all single-player games. Look for any reasons to crap on someone's favorite game because they decided to say something bad about your favorite.
@@LuM4rex it’s just his opinion, he didn’t explain it but it must have some reason behind other than “people who like ds3 don’t like ds2 I have to say ds3 bad”
Literally how?😂@@abrahamrangel2326