exactly, I think ppl are just becoming more and more aware what it takes to raise a psychologically healthy child. Making the conscious option to put a pause until they were more ready is totally good and against the capitalist regimes
I wish. But alas, we have people who would not only judge but sabatoge people who realize that all because you have decided to go off the social script
Working with kids made me realize how often children are at the whims of their parents. Often their parents don’t provide them with the care they need and the kids have no say, they need adults to access the system. It’s so sad. A lot of time I feel people assign a weird manipulativeness to kids actions. Like they are acting certain ways to manipulate adults instead of just being kids learning to deal with stuff.
we often assign some kind of individual agency to kids although it's completely nonsensical because kids are basically acting out of mechanisms that are working a certain way their parents and people around them act, basically all you see a kid do is what his environment reinforces him or her to do, they don't scream and act foolishly by themselves, even the most "spoiled" kids are not acting in that way because of their own decision, it's the adults who cause them to be a certain way
Both can be true at once. Children are manipulative, that does not mean they have malicious intent. They're just kids being kids (or rather, human, as that is a human behavior), and that is a normal part of child behavior. I can totally see in my own toddler how she fakes being hurt to get attention, she is also having a phase of fake laughing very loudly to get attention too. But both of those are fine, that's just part of good development- developing their emotions, testing boundries, etc.
The most traumatic childhoods I've heard about Include parents who simultaneously treat their children as an extension of themselves and then treat every action of their child as though their child has manipulative ulterior motives - often motives that exceed the child's cognitive ability given their brain is still growing. It is the saddest thing because it's teaching the child that the world is this sick twisted place that it really does not need to be.
Reminds me of how Saint Augustine described children as being naturally sinful, manipulative, and selfish. He was pretty influential in Western philosophy, so that could be a potential origin for why people believe that in the West.
I see this in my little cousins. They act up or behave manipulatively only because that is literally the only way I’ve ever seen them recieve any attention from their mother. Other than that she treats them like accessories. Kids NEED attention from their parents, so whenever I see that behavior I know it’s just them trying to get what they need using the only skills they have learned.
I think it's interesting that kids are judged so harshly for their lack of emotional regulation but many adults have a hard time regulating, also. Granted, abuse usually plays a big part in that, but as you've mentioned, there are so few resources to make our society healthier and our social programs have been in a steady decline since the 80's.
I’ve dedicated my 25 year career to child development and supporting parents and families. All I can say on this is, kids are WAY better than adults in every way. Adults have the same shortcomings and challenges as children, the only difference is children have the viable excuse of not having the life experience and brain development required to appropriately regulate emotions. Adults are the assholes who behave inappropriately even when they have the means to better themselves and do right by others. Yes access to mental health resources as an adult play a major factor, not everyone can afford mental health care. But also why is that? Is it because the children have denied it to the adults? No it’s the adults in power who have denied it to themselves and other adults. Hence my original statement; kids are better than us adults and we’d do well as a society to put prioritize their healthy growth and development above all else. And also listen to them, they have so much more wisdom then we could ever expect or understand.
THIS! I always felt like I had to be more emotionally mature than my parents. I was only allowed to express positive emotions and never allowed to point out when my parents did something wrong because “nobody’s perfect.” But I was expected to never make a mistake. Even now with a lot of estrangement from the younger generations to their older generation parents, the parents still don’t wasn’t to be accountable for pretty bad parents who only kept their kid alive with food and shelter but want never ended gratitude for doing the minimum of what was required of them.
it's also the classic - when someone judges you harshly, they are seeing in you something they can't accept in themselves. I believe this is why adults bully children - they haven't learned the lesson themselves and they're too proud to admit their own faults, seeing them in someone else with less power is the perfect opportunity for those people in denial about their own lives to try and ruin it for someone else too
In school I remember watching a TedTalk by a teacher, and the teacher said something along the lines of “no matter how terrible a child is acting or how much you despise them, you never let a child know that you dislike them.” That always stuck with me, and I always think of it whenever I see adults talking shit about children (especially to the child’s face). Children are sensitive and can definitely act terrible, but they are still people and deserve to know they are cared for and can grow to be someone more behaved.
I don't think we should give our children everything they want, don't tell them they make mistakes, don't yell at them or assert dominance over them. It is only nautral. Just look at asian households. But you shouldn't be overtly abusive, only do things that are justifiable to the mean they make their mistake. For example if they dropped their toy, tell them that they dropped their toy and don't do it another time. If they break their toy then don't give them a toy reasonably for a couple days to know their mistake, but don't hit them or take away their nutrition. We shouldn't over protectively care for our kid too much, but should monitor them, and teach them. We should have the right amount. If you don't yell at them or tell them they did something wrong or give punishments, then when they get out in society, they'll be a big crybaby or not be used to not having a parent with them. Give them enough so that they have the right knowledge to build on.
I think one of the major reasons for child free weddings isn’t just because people hate kids (while there definitely are people who do) it’s the fact that there are lots of parents who don’t or won’t monitor their kids during the event.
It is usually not a safe space for kids even if you plan for having a more child friendly wedding. The same way a bar is not just childfree for the adults enjoyment but also for the kids safety.
@@blushandberries624 I totally agree. Being surrounded by mostly drunk adults is not ab okay place for kids. I don’t understand why people feel the need to include very young children in weddings. I was probably around 10 or 11 when I attended any of my relatives weddings. Kids need to be at an age where they are independent and don’t need direct adult supervision. Plus young kids aren’t going to be able to enjoy themselves anyway they’re probably just going to be tired and overstimulated.
A few months ago I read about a kid who *died* at a wedding that was supposed to be childfree. The kid was the bride's nephew, I believe. Bride's brother/sister (I don't remember) insised, and what happened? Their parent(s?) was partying and drinking, grandparents were also enjoying the wedding... no one noticed when said kid, running around, smashed their face on a mirror and were on the floor, collapsed, bleeding. It was a waiter who noticed, and by that time the kid was already gone I believe. Some places are childfree FOR A FUCKING REASON. Same goes gor resorts/hotels that have cliffs, or have stairs and other facilities who are not safe for kids. But entitled parents resist, insist, and when tragedy strikes they are the first to try and blame everyone else. As was the case at the wedding, the parent(s) tried to sue the event hall...
@@NynNahhhonestly, I don’t think the problem was with the kid being at the wedding, but with the parents being negligent. If you bring your child to any event, you need to watch them. With family like this, it could have happened at a family barbecue…
I'm childfree by choice. Not because I dislike children, I just wouldn't be able to handle taking care of them 24/7. I'm more Auntie material than Mom material.
And that's a tremendously important role!! Children *need* people like you, the "cool aunt/uncle" that they can have a very different but still super positive relationship with.
im childfree bc well, i am 19, but for my friends and family that have kids, i have always been the role of the elder who isn't too old. yes, one day I'd love kids, but i feel like what a lot of people dont get is that there are benefits to being a good impact on kids around you. it takes a village to raise a child. i have an aunt who is childfree but has been an incredible nanny for the past 30+ years! being childfree is only crappy if all you do is talk about how much you despise children for being children, instead of observing your role in the greater society we create
same here! i've also generally leaned into being childfree by choice. i've never disliked children tbh i always got along with them and i even took care of one of my younger cousins when she was a newborn and currently a toddler the main reason is that i have a list of medical and physical related conditions that i would never want to pass down onto someone else, also yeah i don't think i'd be fully capable of being able to take care of them 24/7. i'll always be supportive towards kids, but i do not need to have a lineage to validate my existence. just being alive and having a positive affect on people's lives and the world in general is already good enough for me (i am not ND so i cannot relate to the topic talked about earlier in this video as i am neurotypical, my mental health related issues are psychiatric which could still affect any hypothetical children of mine)
I'm exactly the same. I would love to be a cool aunt (if only my siblings and friends weren't also child free LOL). I'm more than happy to be a part of the village that raises a kid without having my own.
As a Gen z, i remember hearing everyone complaining and making fun of millennials as a kid, and then as a teen people started doing it to my generation. I’m surprised at how fast they’re doing it to Gen alpha. They didn’t even wait till they were teenagers yet
I think the whole hate mob towards gen alpha was due to the fact that even people born in gen z are starting to not understand memes and slang that gen alpha has created, and thus, because gen alpha is so “cringe” that somehow creates justification to bully and harass them. In reality, that’s just gen alpha creating new memes and slang that suit the newer generation. Sure, we may not understand it as well as we could with gen z, but we should still allow gen alpha to create these memes and slang because that’s literally just how culture changes.
Same, also on the topic of Generations, is it just me or have a lot of gen Z dudes have gotten into the whole marriage/wife/girlfriend bad memes that gen z used to make fun of boomers for? I wonder if it's a phase that dudes go through. I've also notice that a lot of gen z memes are becoming more like the "life sucks" memes that millennials used to be known for and less of the absurdist comedy that gen z used to be known for. I also wonder if that's also a phase that people go through as well.
Young people make mistakes, and the world is changing at a rapid rate. I realized how dumb criticizing people by generation when I read an article about it happening in ancient Greece.
@@kittykittybangbang9367 i think the "wife bad" memes are because of the increasing popularity of misogynistic figures like andrew tate or kevin samuels in general. Reactionary figures like this usually become popular in times where progress is actually being made, which is why they seemingly pop up so suddenly. As for the "life sucks" memes, i think it varies. Older gen z is some combination of the 2 imo, whereas younger gen z is more similar to the gen alpha.
@@pennyforyourthots Hard agree. Even though I'm early-mid Gen Z (born in 2002), I feel more like a Zillennial (cusp of Millennial and Gen Z). A large part of it was because I didn't have many friends my own age when I was little and I grew up with the same stuff my older sister (born in '98) did. That, and my parents were considered older parents at the time and my sister and I were exposed to a lot of the late Boomer/early Gen X stuff. A lot of it probably has to do with where and how the people in Gen Z and Gen Alpha were/are being raised.
I know whenever my mom saw a baby or toddler cry, she'd say, "aww, it's tough being a baby." Because it is. Everything is new and upsetting. We should be like my mom.
@@fatimahanwaar306 I have the exact reaction because of mental illness problems and tokophobia, but I still feel bad for the poor kiddos because it really is hard. I was that kid once, being disabled and neurodivergent with no diagnoses was especially hard.
@@S3lkie-Gutz children being neurodivergent and having mental illnesses are more valid than adults since their brains are still developing and they are already learning how the world works meanwhile adults are just infantilizing themselves
When I'm somewhere with my kids and I hear another kid or baby cry or have a tantrum or whatever, I say to my kids "aww, they sound sad. You feel sad sometimes too, right?" (Paraphrased bc my kids and I are Dutch) usually semi-loudly, so hopefully the other parent can hear it and feel seen by someone.
@unbotheredblitz They have no context to view the world in. They are constantly hit with a barrage of new information, and have no idea what to do with any of it. Bright lights, loud sounds, and they don't know what any of it means. Imagine how a wild rabbit would perceive New York City. And to top it all off, they can do nothing. they can't protect themselves. They can't even lift their own head. They are completely helpless in a bizarre and terrifying world. All they can do is scream and hope someone is there to help. I'd rather worry about my insurance than be a baby.
I don’t get annoyed with children so much as I get annoyed with their parents. I remember when I was walking through Christmas lights and there was this toddler screaming for her mother. Immediately me and the women around us started asking who she was with and if she was lost. Turns out her father was several feet away…on his phone. Same with flights. Children screaming from the change in altitude is fine, but when they start kicking the seat while the mom or dad is on their phone, I get upset.
Yeah nobody wants to acknowledge this either. Because it makes you sound like an old person. But parents being on their phone in public and also behind the wheel of the car. Is causing so much problems for society. They have no free time so they are always trying to scrape whatever time on the phone they can. Like little phone goblins they can’t stop To the point where they all have hands-free phone stuff in their car which is still distracted driving. Because I see them inevitably changing stuff on their phone while they are moving. None of them can drive none of them can be parents and they shouldn’t have had children without preparing
@@smokedbeefandcheese4144 the old people are half-right about the phones. The thing that makes them wrong is that they either don’t know or don’t care that our phone apps are specifically made to be addictive. It’s not a moral failing to be addicted to the internet. Our brains hadn’t evolved to deal with it.
@@AmbitiousNoodle no?? If a child is screaming and crying and so far away from her father we don’t know who she belongs to and he’s on his phone, that’s on him?? I’m not mad at him because she’s upset. I’m mad that he’s letting his child be distressed SO HE CAN GO ON HIS PHONE
there were multiple times where i could have gotten ran over due to parents' giant 2 kid strollers taking up sidewalk space during a christmas lights display. like...both the kids are having fun dancing outside of the strollers, can you collapse then please!
I totally get the childfree wedding thing and I do NOT think the bride and groom should have to pay for childcare but I also think they should be ok with people not coming if they don’t want to leave their kids at home. You have to decide if it’s more important for you to have high attendance or no kids - you can’t have it both ways!
I’m getting married next year and can already barely afford it, saying the married couple should pay for childcare is ludicrous Just stay home, I won’t be offended but I can’t afford to take care of your kids on top of the event
Sadly, children have been seen as a source of free labour (both domestic and non domestic) across the world for thousands of years. Child labour under capitalism is an extension of that age old practice.
Exploitation doesn't extend backwards through all of human history. It's a remarkably recent phenomenon. The exploiting class wants us to believe this nonsense goes back thousands and thousands of years. It's not true. Colonialism changed everything, including our view of history.
have you read the article "Florida legislation sparks child labor debate" by WJCT 89.9 News where "House Bill 49... aims to ease up on work rules for 16- and 17-year-olds" @@xzxoxlx ?
no, it isnt. that implies that capitalism is a natural progression of humanity rather than a perverted social construct that is relatively new in human history and requires suffering to function. child labor under capitalism is not an extention of "age old free labor from children".
The real bummer about iPad kids is restaurants are now providing tablets for kids instead of crayons and menus, and even in my 20s I could still use a lil game of tic tac toe or coloring while I wait to eat
@@notNajimi that too. I wasn’t even thinking about that I was just thinking about the times I tried playing those games but couldn’t cuz I didn’t want to have a separate bill just for being bored 😭
They have had the tablets at restaurants since atleast 15ish years ago. They had then when i was a kid at most restaurants i went to, I wasn’t allowed to use it but I remember seeing them
Target has these great activity packs that come with stickers a little coloring book and 4 crayons it’s small and it’s only $1 I always bring one when I take my 2/ 1/2 yr old out
There are parents who have a “village”, but the individuals in said village lack the emotional intelligence for parents to entrust them with alone time with their children.
@@markd.9042depends on where you are. Where I live now, it's still seen as socially acceptable and common practices by most to punish children with physical abuse. I would not be able to let any of my older relatives watch my children, as they really can't be trusted not to snap and hit kids whenever they become inconvenient or troublesome.
@@TheAwesomes2104 Yep. Don’t want kids. My parents say some out of pocket shit. Casual racism and sexism and I would never allow them around kids if I changed my mind.
I’m going to give my two cents about the ‘it takes a whole village to raise a child’ as a future educator. Sometimes parents also DON’T want to cooperate with the school too when their kids misbehave, and it takes a heavy toll on the teachers!.
It’s really good to see someone standing up for kids. I both would never and could never raise one, but children are constantly exploited, forgotten, and blamed, yet it’s still rarely acknowledged. And as a former child (obviously), I still remember the glares and snide comments of adults who blamed me for existing in situations I had no choice in.
People don’t really like to think about it, but the more hateful we are towards children the harder it is to protect good children who are being abused, etc. Thinking poorly of children doesn’t exist in a vacuum and people who are CF including myself need to stop grouping annoying parents with their children. The children have nothing to do with it.
Yeah I think it's weird that anyone would assume that because you don't feel you have the resources or even the desire to make your own children… That therefore you hate all children. Which is so weird.
And also it makes no sense for adults to say this because we were all kids once. How did some become trunchbull? Jeez. She is not supposed to be the ideal.
I think the problem with the iPad kids meme is that it misattributes the lack of engaged parenting to a failing in the child. It's actually crazy. The one time I have been upset flying with a baby on board was with a mother who put on industrial strength noise canceling headphones and slept while her baby intermittently wailed the whole flight. The baby was crying when she did this.
I hadn't made it to the summary part at the end. I mostly agree, but I think that the parents should be aware that iPads/tablets are being pushed on their kids and should be responsible enough to push back, no matter how tired they are. My parents made a conscious choice to limit my screen time (tv, home pc), and didn't get me game consoles. They both worked. They were mocked by other parents, and other millenials my age think that they were out of line, but honestly I'm happy that these things were replaced by books and legos.
Yeahhh, I don’t mind if a baby cries because that’s what babies do but I will be mad if nobody tries to help them at all. I also don’t want my kids growing up having to deal with your kid who has fucked up psychology because you decided to make your baby microdose parental abandonment.
@@001HK0I agree with everything you said. My parents did the same thing, I wasn't allowed to own a game counsel and I always thought it was kind of ridiculous and that it ostracized me socially, up until literally just now, reading your comment lol. now that I think about it, I have so many memories playing with other kids outside, and having to learn how to get along with them, i played so many sports, had a lot of hobbies and interests, but I also knew how to use my imagination and entertain myself with barbie's for hours, play dress up, and even enjoyed reading all the way through high school. I had so much fun as a kid, and sitting here thinking about it, those experiences likely played a huge role in allowing me to be an emotionally intelligent, independent, creative adult with a really good friend group and good morals. the replacement of parenting, child enrichment, social skills and so on, by hand-held electronics, is stiffening children's development and in turn enforcing hyper individualism. I guess my parents decision to not buy me a nintendo DS, no matter how much I begged, was ultimately a good one😅
In my experience of having been a disabled child, I felt my parents resentment of me keenly growing up. (We are estranged in now that I've reached adulthood and frankly it's been better for my mental health.) There was always this push of trying to get my body to function as that an able-bodied child. Any accomplishments and who I was as an individual were secondary and were often ignored. There's nothing like wanting your parent to notice you and wanting to make them proud in a public space only to be yelled at about your body once you got to the car. (That is if they come to any of your events at all.) My disability was a source of shame and embarrassment for my family of origin. I feel like American society esp. excuses the mistreatment and abuse of disabled children because they're so "hard for the parent to take care of". Older generations were conditioned to have children in order to have someone to take care of them in old age. Therefore, the universe owes them able-bodied child. Capitalism reinforces ableism. Honestly, all of this is to say that if you can't stomach the idea of having a disabled child, please don't have children. I was the eldest and no child wants to be resented for their entire existence.
Same here. It's specific, but growing up, I don't remember "adults" in a good light. As a small autistic kid, adults often seemed to randomly hate me -parents, teachers etc. It was really hard for me. Especially since it didn't start out like this. Turns out I had "Gifted kid" syndrome "disabled/ND edition". Aka: When I was small, I was a typical gifted kid. Brought good grades, very smart, very positive. However, when I turned from a small, cute bubbly kid to a burned-out, bullied teen whose grades slipped rapidly, moods changed. Per se: In hindsight, I was basically left alone. Nobody taught me how to socialize. Nobody taught me hygiene. My parents were the Gen-X cliché of "going outside and coming home when it's dinner time". They put it on me to learn all the things abled/NT kids just do. And when they saw the red flags it didn't...well...they took it personal. Teachers & guardians became similar. My happy "quirks" were now turned to angering "tics". e me perform "calming activities" like pressing down my legs to suppress stimming (fun fact: suppressing stimming causes physical pain). I also had teachers call my mother every. Single. Day. to complain about minor stuff she found annoying like "Leroy looked out the window for 5sec." Or, take the example of a classmate & I who both had shitty handwriting. The classmate was best in math. Brought the school prizes at competitions. Like small-me, she was excused for being "quirky", while I was lectured about laziness. As an adult it got a lil easier again. Mostly because I'm raising myself now. That said, it's still extremely hard. Like, I literally was told by my college that my doctor's note is basically a "suggestion" and that I need to handle balanced treatment out with every individual professor I have??! In that sense, I disagree with you: If you don't want a disabled kid -only have able kids. Not everyone can deal with disabled kids, and if we force a black/white "either/or", people will try do show that they can. Which is shit, cause every disabled kid should be born into a family where it's really, actually wanted. Not because of a "moral option". Instead, I'd suggest forced pre-parent classes, in which the biases are addressed. Like -do you/ do you not want X kids cause of sensible reasons? (lack of money for treatment, trauma, not feeling qualified even) Orrrrr, do you want /not want X kids because you have Y/Z stereotypes about them?
I have autism as well, and I didn't realize until I was an adult how many times my schools called my mother, I genuinely thought most of my teachers had no qualms with me, especially in high school where I was the most quiet one in the room. My neice, I've thought of being autistic, or something else since she was 2. You just, sorta know sometimes when you're neruodivergent and you're meeting another neruodivergent. My (middle) sister thought early on I had autism as well. She was right. I've been trying to get my (eldest) sister for the past couple years to get my little neice diagnosed with something. She's had delays in childhood milestones, she's smart as all hell but really needs that extra help to learn how to apply herself. But apparently, my sister said she's, 'too smart' to be autistic and says she's 'worried if she gets diagnosed she'll be bullied'. Like I, a person who has experienced this first hand, with my own experience and everything, isn't enough proof for that, like her family, friends and her daughters teachers aren't enough for that. I was bullied heavily, and I wasn't diagnosed until the age of fifteen, and it hurt for so many years not to have an explanation for it, from the age of about eight I thought I was a horrible, rude and selfish person, maybe insane. My diagnosis made me feel whole and started me on a track to bettering myself, learning to love myself, for the past six years. Tldr: Diagnosis early on good. Making excuses as to why your child doesn't have diagnosis bad. Take the person in your life with autism more seriously.
@@leroyjenkins1249wow what an insensitive response to someone who experienced similar things that you did as a child. And saying “don’t have a disabled child” is beyond ignorant to type or say out loud. You aren’t the main character so sit down.
@@legally_ellecee1309 I'm relating, mate. I'm showing that I relate by telling my story. And yeah -I do say that. I'm not saying that disabled people shouldn't be born or euthanized -but I know from experience that there's a world of pain to grow up if you are disabled. Having a shitty household on top breaks your back. Do you think disabled kids don't pick up they're not wanted? The favoritism? Or that they're glorified as little geniuses -just some pretty jewel on a parent to brag? Way to miss what I actually say for interpreting how you feel I was shown that I'm no main character all my life. Maybe you sit the fuck down for once, mate.
Reminds me of that one godawful Autism Speaks ad featuring a woman talking about how she used to think about driving off a cliff with her autistic daughter in the car, and the only reason she didn't was because she had an allistic daughter she wanted to be around to take care of. Like, jesus christ.
Kids are also crying on planes bc their ears are popping and it’s painful and confusing (especially if they’re not talking yet). Apparently the best thing you can do for that is let the kid cry bc that makes them swallow, which unpops their ears.
@@MrEvldreamr - that’s okay when the baby takes a bottle or pacifier or food in the moment. 😂 the alternatives only work when the baby enticed/soothed by them.
Okay, but letting kids cry is not fair to the other passengers. Sorry, but decent people put their babies to sleep while they are on a plane, even with sleeping drugs.
@@Jamhael1 Capitalism is simply the right to own and get stuff. All of the stuff people are complaining about around here is not the fault of capitalism.
I've known I don't want kids since I was a teenager, and at almost 30 that still hasn't changed. I still love kids, love my friends' kids and my nephew dearly, but when trying to find likeminded people it's impossible to find childfree groups that don't spiral into the hateful rhetoric of calling kids crotch goblins and parents breeders. I simply don't understand why people have to shit on people who choose things they don't out of some moral superiority.
I want to child free. But I feel like I'm in a way greatful for people who choose to have kids. Because they provide the next generation of humans to continue the economy and support my retirement, keep our society going. It's like those people don't think they need a next gen. I mean, if their goal is to see the extinction of humans, then that would make sense to be so hostile towards parents, but I don't think most of them think that far
It's definitely an insecurity thing. I know that I am not capable at this stage in life to become a parent. I am not mature enough nor patient enough to become a full time caretaker of a child. As we get older that sometimes changes but for some it never does. And that can lead some to have feelings of being "less than". Therefore they push those insecurities and anger outward to feel better. Like "well who wants to have crotch goblins anyway?".
I went to a "childfree" wedding where I was the paid sitter. If people couldn't get their own for the ceremony then they could drop their kids off with me and another cousin in a separate room where we had some coloring books, games, toys, and movies. After the main ceremony the kids could attend the dinner but most stayed with us for kiddie foods (which was way cheaper than getting them all the catering) and we had an area for them to lay down for bedtime at 8. The bride and groom were absolutely lovely and it was nice because the parents could check in but have a free night without a sitter and their kids didn't have to sit through a bunch of speeches.
@@Starry_Night_Sky7455 that was literally how it was 😂 I've worked with kids for a long time and didn't know the couple the best (friend of a friend situation) so it really worked out for everyone.
This is such an amazing idea, thank you for sharing. I want to have a child free wedding mostly because there’s nothing interesting going on that’s kid centric and it doesn’t make sense to pay so much for catered food that the kids probably won’t want to eat. Not to mention, there are a lot of parents who don’t have any grasp on monitoring their children and I don’t want them running wild in an environment that really isn’t for them. Providing childcare at the wedding is such a smart idea and a good middle ground.
I wish I could be mom material but imagine handling a child 24/7 with no breaks, and imagine handling MULTIPLE children at once? Children are wonderful but every single mom I met is tired and exhausted and honestly who wants that?
IMO people aren't being trained to be parents. You literally have to plan and prepare for it and find good guidance. Cheaper by the Dozen was based on a real efficient loving family. I knew a few dedicated mom-is-my-job people myself. It’s just rare. We have a society where two people need to work to survive nowadays and on top of that, women are given multiple shifts within the household. So much for gender equality. Europe fought for the right to be a parent/childcare way more than in America. Americans have the worst time off benefits of Western nations… Time for family bonding is another issue.
@@jessicah3782 yeah but nobody has a backbone to challenge rich people. So I guess that’s just going to be how it is. Also you have the problem that in America because we aren’t all the same people we do not see ourselves as one. In Europe and stuff they have childcare figured out because they don’t think of it as robbing Peter to pay Paul or some thing but in America you do. Because some groups of people have more children than others. You are always going to have people arguing that their group deserves more help or whatever. It’s a crabs in a bucket scenario because we do not see ourselves as one group.
It's because humans weren't supposed to raise children on their own. Something something capitalism destroying group work and focusing on individuality ruining everything you get the point. It sucks.
It's unfortunate that just a few decades ago multigenerational households were removed in favour of nuclear families. No one used to have to look after kids 24/7, you'd get help from your parents or parents in law, potentially older siblings if you have any or maybe friends. But now it's very individualist, older people are thrown out onto the streets and children are left with overexhausted parents (and as we know that burden often falls on the female parent)
@@ahuman5772 I know and it bothers me that now you have to pay if you want the extra help (babysitters, night nurses, doulas) which the majority cannot afford, I’d have kids if I had a supporting husband and village
I'm Palestinian, and growing up, attending weddings was a central part of my childhood and a chance to meet other children i otherwise would never have met. Parties were considered for everyone, because in the middle east there is no emphasis on getting drunk or consuming alcohol, even if it's a Christian Arabic wedding (yes, there are many Christian Arabs across the Arab world, where do you think Jesus was from??) Parties such as weddings were also a way to learn the customs of your respective community (the food prepared and served, the music played; i learned how to belly-dance from age 5 because i witnessed older girls and women dance at weddings and parties) Because there was always alot of kids of all ages at parties, the older kids organically took on the task of watching out for the younger kids, so there was no need for daycare. This segregation between age groups in the Western countries is truly strange and verging on insane from the Middle Eastern perspective. We often feel very sorry for you.
thank u so much for ur perspective! after reading your comment i began thinking about how the west really favours individualism, and how western media/culture is really discouraging children from being "weird"/"cringe" they're just kids 😭. and also just the dog piling on kids and teenagers on the internet is still crazy to me. on a side note, i also began thinking about my own ancestors (im a filipino diaspora) values on community, and how sometimes (most times) the west is in favour of the opposite. again, thank you so much for your perspective, it really got me thinking ❤❤
I’m Colombian and I had the same experience! There is even this “meme” going around in Latino communities about the shared experience of falling asleep in chairs during the parties, or finding a random kid sleeping in your bed during a family reunion. I can’t wait to have all the kids of my family in my wedding.
I think the problem here in the US is that weddings themselves have become so ridiculously expensive and more of a celebration of status. I had my cheap $5,000 wedding with nearly 100 guests in a park. Kids were encouraged to come and they weren't a nuisance at all! I wish we could've had even more kids come. People still tell me what a great time they had.
That’s my idea of a family party 👍 food, music, solidifying bonds and friendships with family members near and far to your age, and a general natural community policing of behaviour of children etc.
I agree, I'm from Brazil and a wedding is a celebration to have the chances to get together with family who lives far away and you don't see very often, and just have fun with everyone
When I got pregnant with my 1st, I started reading and watching educational books and videos about child development. My oldest is 7 and I have another and one more on the way....I continue to consume educational material about their development because it helps me approach them in an appropriate manner. It's hard work but so satisfying to see them thrive and realize they have no fear of us.
when women are pregnant they are educated about how classical music helps babies develop faster but as soon as those 9 months are up the babies end up listening to stupid nursery rhymes that slow down their brain development
@fatimahanwaar306 lol I don't think the classical music has anything to do with brain development. The brain is a learning machine. If kids have their basic biological needs met, i.e. food, safety, shelter, etc. The brain is going to focus on learning. We don't do anything special with our kids...they are loved, cared for, and feel safe at home. My 7 year old is already in a gifted program, and his little brother, who is almost 4, is on track to join him.
@@magnarcreed3801 No they can't especially the ones from those toxic so-called "kid-friendly channels" on UA-cam so it's better for children to listen to classical music
Children being (sadly) little more than markers of correct and successful adulthood is heartbreaking. It gives me a headache to think abt how many of us have only been born because our parents wouldn't be able to cope with not fitting into society. While I can understand that for my parents' generation, today I wish more people would reflect on whether they really want kids, or whether they just want to be taken seriously as adults.
Nothing has made me hate parents like working a Christmas event. Parents force kids into situations knowing they’ll be upset and overstimulated, trying to make their photosensitive child sit out of reach with a strange old man and look into spotlights while I take photos on a shutter camera with bright flash in the loudest fucking room you’ve ever experienced. I’ve straight up refused to take some photos because the kid was in clear distress and the *looks* I’d get when I stepped out from behind the camera and asked the kid if they wanted to skip, then told the family to enjoy the rest of the festivities…WOW. This world is actively hostile to kids, and that includes far too many parents.
Depending on where you are working all that did was then put the kid through watching their parent scream at the your supervisor, or the kid themself getting screamed at for saying yes. You think Santa pictures where they have a dedicated photographer are usually cheap?
@@hayleyhellbound9513 oh, I know full-well how expensive they are, it’s why I don’t work the sales desk. But our supervisors are *even more calm* somehow. They put up with less, too.
As someone from one of the countries with the highest birth rates, the idea of children being investments for senior care, labor and money is still very around despite immigrating to the US. Large families are just so heavily ingrained into the culture, half because many people naturally will try to the replicate the family size they grew up in and half because of this fear of loss and missing out. Those “oh pity they only have three children”. Even as a child I looked at smaller families in my community as if they were weird. Unfortunately this love for having children doesn’t equate to loving children themselves. Being evaluated on my worth, ability to do chores, service others in the community, bring in money, buy a house here and in the homeland, and fund my parents in old age has been put on me since a young age. And parents don’t know how to deal with rebelling or nonconformity bc they’re seeing a broken product losing its functionality. And often that means cutting losses and disowning because if a kid can’t provide for them what is it doing? Why keep a fridge or microwave around if doesn’t work? It’s only logical to them. I’m not sure if I want kids but if I do I plan on going in with the mindset that they do not owe me anything and they don’t live to serve me. Your kids could die, leave or need your care in old age or any age due to disease or accident.
How are disabled kids treated in your bubble? I’m curious how they would view a child that never even had a possibility of providing those things. Is there ever even a consideration of that possibility before having kids?
@@koinwonderland4309 Actually independence of disabled individuals is highly encouraged amongst my culture and in most African communities. (Which was very interesting to read in my sociology and social work courses that this is seen as different). If a disabled individual has a chance of working a job, going to college, get married and have kids the parents will work make sure they have what they need to achieve those milestones if to the best of their ability and push them to do so. Infantilization is not culturally common or seen as acceptable, which often leads to people looking at us weirdly when a sibling will roast their disabled sibling or a parent will scold or tell off their disabled child. If a disabled child is unable to do those things and need life long care at least from what I’ve seen in my, community and homeland is that the parents accept that the child will need care and care for them in their old age. There’s not much resentment due to the fact that they can’t provide for them, different standards for different situations. I’m from a religious country so 99% of people will just view a child disability as fate or a trial from god that they should accept and take on with the best they can provide. A couple having a disabled child will have a mindset similar to a couple having a boy when they wanted a girl. “Well okay this is what God ordered for us, we accept and move forward”. Parents may see the extra care and cost as burdening sometimes but not see the child as a buden themselves. I also think this has to do with the fact that most my country does not have a history of Institutions or asylums for disabled people or the mentally ill. Growing up our disabled family members and neighbors lived amongst us and stayed in our homes. Obviously there are cons to this lack of systemized health care but the pro is that disabled people always had a place in the community and care was also community based. It’s interesting because education is lacking (people will use “sick” as a blanket term for many mental disorders) but acceptance is high. People are not scared of the possibility of having disabled children because more likely than not they themselves had a disabled relative or neighbor who was treated normally. Of course I cannot speak for parents who ONLY have disabled children. And I haven’t met anyone who only has children with disabilities required life long care. I know that families with disabled and non disabled children do expect care from the non disabled children. So parents may resort to having another child to fulfill that goal. And if not possible rely on other family members (siblings, nieces, nephews etc.) Tldr: In my community disabilities are just accepted as a part of life and the same goes for disabled people. If a disabled child did require life long care the parents would care for them themselves even in old age. Parents don’t look at this child as a loss in future income or senior care because “different standards for different situations”. I think that most parents don’t expect their child to be disabled but no one is scared of having a child who is disabled, but they would want a child who isn’t disabled so they can have someone who is capable of caring for them
@@Dr.Beetlejuice1101. Yes I support state and federally funded safe and effective senior living and nursing facilities. I’m a social work major who has gotten to work at an agency that provided various services for people 65+. 2. I didn’t say the reason I don’t want kids is because “they shouldn’t take care of me”. I didn’t even say children shouldn’t have to take care of their aging parents (in most situations they should in my opinion). I said you shouldn’t have kids for the sole purpose of preordering a nurse or retirement fund. Like it was said in the video wanting to have a child may seem selfish but the act of having said child is selfless. Please at least quote me right before lecturing me 3. If I just made a comment saying how I’m considering not having kids, and saying that many seniors don’t have kids who can take care of them. It’s pretty safe to assume I am in support of funding nursing homes. Please don’t assume I’m that stupid as to think old people should become homeless if they don’t have children caring for them. Or even more stupid that I think I’ll disappear after “‘living my best life’” obviously I know I will need someone to care for me. You said a lot of important things but targeting them at me like I initially disagreed is pretty rude
@@hhh1234h sorry you think that was directed at you but it wasn't really directed at you but at the topic you are discussing. You are not the only one to express these feelings and thoughts. Only one sentence uses the word "you" which I was really directed it at the public. Not necessarily assuming you don't know this or anything. Some people don't know anything about what I'm talking about and it never crosses their mind to connect the dots. Sorry, it wasn't really directed at you.
Part of my own resentment towards children was growing up being told I *will* have kids, I *will* like kids, and once I was an adult it just became *when* . I've had family members stop talking to me just because I didn't want to babysit while working and going to school full time. I want to make my own choices and do things for myself. I don't want to be expected to babysit just because I'm the oldest daughter AND oldest girl cousin. Parentification of girls is a major factor. None of the boys, and there are many, in my extended family were ever expected to watch their younger siblings. My brother didn't even get *asked* to watch the twins, but it was somehow expected of me and offensive when I said no. That said, I don't actually dislike children. Their loud sounds are sensory overload for me, and I already hate flying so screaming kids just add to my own stress. I don't get the biological response I'm "supposed to" from their "cute" faces. But I try to give them and parents grace and I think I would eventually want to adopt some older kids that are more my speed. The idea that it's an expectation or something I owe to society is not something I can agree with. Which I understand is not what you're saying either, but it was the feeling I got from some of this video. - Respectfully and from the POV of an open dialogue. I appreciate your video and your perspective, even tho I disagree with much of it. I see where you're coming from, for sure. And I do think we're too hard on parents, especially moms and *especially* single moms in general.
I completely agree. I myself really want to have kids but hate the whole sexist, ageist, "it's an obligation" part of our culture really needs to go. People should be free to not have kids, life without them is still just as beautiful, and some people need to get that through their skulls. Your comment is so right, this video did a good job at humanising kids. Both childhood and parenthood are also beautiful parts of the human experience, and we should keep in mind that babies are people too and shouldn't be hidden just because they're still in a weird stage of their existence. But also, that some people have horrible experiences contemplating parenthood as a lifepath for so many valid reasons, like yourself, and shouldn't be accused of hyper-individual (selfish) capitalists. And others just can't handle the loud, illogical, immature nature of young people and babies, so they genuinely need their own spaces especially the neurodivergent.
Personally, I really struggle with babies in particular. I don't want my own: my periods are bad enough and everyone tells me that pregnancy is worse, not to mention the associated risks, how much it takes to look after a child that young: I'd need the village, but the village doesn't exist. Not to mention an aversion to bodily fluids: the mere thought of mucis makes me puke sometimes, and well, when i picture babies, the only thing i can really think of is that little face covered in the stuff. Thankfully, I was never parentified as a kid, so I don't really have any of those associated feelings, but there is the whole sex thing and the expectation that I'm supposed to find love and settle down with a romantic partner and maybe spend a few years being sexually active with them. Which i don't want. But that's not to say I don't think these children deserve better, because they definately do. They deserve spaces where they can be kids without having to spend money, without being forced to suffer through strict rules. They deserve to be able to go out and about safely, especially as they get older. I have considered, as a possibility for myself when I am older, that I might wanna adopt an older kid, like 4 years old at the youngest (generally, kids are toilet trained by then and know how to use Tissues, so that's my biggest issue gone except for in extenuating circumstances where you can bundle up the bedding and clothes and hose the kid down in a shower. Second issue is sound, and we'll, if uts only one or two kids they aren't gonna be screaming like a room full of 20 10 year olds who just saw a spider.) But like, I don't wanna have babies forced on me. I wanna be able to go to adult functions and kick back and relax without a toddler running between everyone's legs and getting hurt (and also, the toddler shouldn't have to be forced into an adult function where there is nothing for them to do but run around between everyone's legs.) TL;DR, I don't hate children or babies, I just wanna be able to interact with them on my terms and I want the world to allow them to exist as children without putting pressure on their parents wallets and time. I'm pretty sure even the cavemen had designated child carers in their groups for when the parents were busy.
Same, you put my thoughts into words. I went through the exact thing, not to mention struggling with ocd c-ptsd and schizophrenia as well as being a closeted aroace queer person. I'm far from having any maternal instincts I get horrible horrible intrusive thoughts about kids especially toddlers and babies so often I avoid being in public completely because I get so stressed about the intrusive thoughts and don't want to seem like a schizoid freakshow in public where mental illness is already so heavily demonized. I'm also chronically ill and disabled, stage 4 deep infiltrating endometriosis and ovarian endometriomas which puts me at higher risk of developing ovarian cancer both the clear cell and endometrioid types if I don't receive treatment , ehlers danlos, lupus, long covid, pulmonary fibrosis, polyneuropathy, encenphalomylitis, dysautonomia, brain damage, family history of type 1 or 2 diabetes and hypertrophic cardiomyopathy. Things that indicate I really shouldn't have children if I don't want to die an early death, but people just do not seem to understand or accept it they keep insisting and gaslighting me and it's a problematic barrier keeping me from seeking help for my endometriosis. Grandparents told me I can't be sure I don't want to be married or have kids you'll understand when you get older, relatives get pushy when I admit I don't date or want kids, I get scapegoated and demonized for my mental illness which I can't help really. I also experienced a lot of abuse in my childhood, something I'd never want any child to ever go through. I know I'd be a horrible parent if I didn't die from it outright, I feel like people ignore infanticide caused by desperation and perinatal suicidality and deny it's existence. I know I'd be that parent who drowned their infant in the bathtub after a psychotic break because I didn't want this life, nobody deserves to be on the receiving end of that. I wish people had the same amount of self awareness and didn't coerce people who don't want kids into having them and being miserable.
I dislike small children but I would never be openly mean to one. It's not their fault they're annoying. I have never met a single childfree person that would ever do that. We just avoid them whenever possible, which is absolutely what's best for both of us. I like dogs, but I get that they can be loud and unpredictable and I would never begrudge someone for not wanting to be around them.
*I LIVE IN BULGARIA NOW* kids are still raised by the entire community here - you go shopping you leave your kids with the old people of the village or the apartment block. Kids here are GREAT, the parents get as many breaks from them as they need. Also, most families can survive on one salary with 2 kids, which helps a LOT. If the parents are "bad parents" well it does not matter as they have 20 "parents" bringing the kids up in the form of the community. What I have learned since living here is being a parent is TOO BIG a job for 2 people.
My kids do not have an i pad. My oldest is 6. We have one television in the family room. My mom said they will be behind their peers but i think their capacity for imagination, emotional regulation and long attention span will put them lightyears ahead of their peers. Fingers crossed 😂
I had my first cell phone when i was like 13 or 14 (and at the time i diden't even really want to have that) if i ever have a kid he/she will never have a cellphone untill he is at least 13 and it is not going to be an iphone.
@@jeremybeau8334nah I mean raise your kids how you want, but I will say as someone who also got their first phone (iPhone) at 13, as long as you teach your kid there’s exciting things in life not involving it, you should be fine. That’s what my parents did for me. And while I get not wanting a screenager, being able to do Group FaceTime’s and chats and download and laugh about funny apps w my friends were some of the best memories I have.
@@aitneznot necessarily? I think yhe issue is parents using screens as the only source of stimulation for children and using them at too early an age. It's good for children to have this window to the outside world, but if it's all they have from a young age you're going to stifle their development.
@@somedragonbastard well, I can understand your point; but for me being a kid and having access to screens since the age of 3 (first computer) and a tablet at the age of 6 was the worst thing for my development. I'm still addicted to screen and that's really fucked up
People don't want or hate kids because of their loud and annoying characteristics. We know that for millenia. But as a woman who can barely afford to live for myself and I will NEVER have a good life because of late stage capitalism; I will never have children. I deserve to be happy. The lack of a village will guarantee that as soon as I have a child, I will be overworked, overwhelmed, and abandoned by society and (high statistically) my male partner. Not only do I have to take the burden of domestic labor but I have to keep also having a full time job and have it never cover any of my expenses. No thank you.
Well, if you’re worried about your partner not being faithful to you and your child you have a fucked up meter and probably shouldn’t have kids. I am 2 months from giving birth and I know the economy is failing. If you look at life so sad that’s why you’re not able to enjoy it. Because you’re already too far into capitalism that they convinced you because you can’t afford Nike, or Adidas shoes. Even expensive toys and frivolous items like white noise machines for babies, or strollers you can convert that you shouldn’t have kids if you can’t afford them. Back in the day you wouldn’t exist if your mommy had that same mindset… Just saying. We push through as mothers and this is my first ever child and I’m 25. I’m going to provide as much love as I can and that’s really all a child needs is supportive parents that are emotionally available and tentative to their children. I hope one day you find someone you trust to not give up on you too so you can have a child and if you don’t and your happier that way way to go! I just want everyone to stop looking at their lives like money is the end all be all. Back in the 70’s they didn’t have all this shit we have now. No cellphones, none of that shit
Capitalists: create an economic system where the only way to win is not to play. The same capitalists: totally shocked when people decide not to play by not having kids.
I actually was very quiet and peaceful kid. I HIGHLY doubt I hate kids because I was loud and annoying. Again. I was never annoying or loud. Please reframe from imposing your false logic onto others. Just because you were loud obnoxious and stoopid, the rest of us weren't like that. In fact, my mom was scared of me because of how quiet I was as a kid. I spent most of my time reading and drawing. I hate kids because they are annoying and loud! I was never like that! In fact, I hated the other kids when I was a kid, because again, I was the quiet and reclusive type to enjoy being alone reading and drawing. I would've been an excellent nun doing calligraphy manuscripts.
@@LadyCoyKoi someone is deeply triggered. Just because you were a good kid doesn't mean 80% of them aren't. You can be a nun now. Get off the internet and go pray if that's what you want.
When I was a toddler I had random outbursts in public, and later we learned I was having an allergic reaction to certain foods, making me itchy, hot, and irritable. At such a young age I couldn't articulate what was wrong... My point is, if you see a child freaking out in public, you really have no idea why and should abstain from judgement.
@@MK-hh1vo When you step out into the public world you have to accept that you lose control over what you can hear and/or see. I also hate hearing children cry, sirens, construction, and barking dogs, but you know what I did? I got noise-cancelling headphones. Anticipate your own needs and you will be a happier person. A toddler doesn't have the ability to say “I’m having an allergic reaction to certain foods, therefore I need to go to the doctor.” it can take awhile to find the heart of the issue, so extend some grace to the people around you.
@@MK-hh1vo while I absolutely agree parents should be responsible and attentive to their children and make efforts to avert any public disruptions by their children for the sake of others, children are still autonomous human beings that parents cannot magically control the emotional responses of, neurodivergent children will be especially reactive and even harder to placate when stressed out. A consequence of being out in public places is encountering those you cohabitate the world with, as a neurodivergent adult I always have noise cancelling headphones and a pair of noise blocking ear plugs in my bag in case I encounter a screaming child or other loud noises that could become unbearable to listen to. Ultimately we aren’t more entitled to use public or shared spaces than anyone else, nor can we control the behaviour of others, so anyone with high sensitivity to certain stimuli needs to be proactive in accomodating their own needs, rather than resenting others for not unanimously behaving in ways that prioritise your experience/convenience over their own.
It’s reasonable to expect parents that can’t find childcare to not attend a child-free wedding, but completely unreasonable to expect to pay for childcare as well when weddings are already so expensive
There are alternatives. Pay a babysitter or two for a fraction of the cost, and then have the parents pay the majority of the tab. That way, everyone wins. This is only a solution for small weddings, but it's a solution.
I validate my daughters feelings while explaining being upset doesn’t validate saying or doing anything you want in that moment. You can be angry or sad but you can’t lash out at people just because you’re angry. I think alot of us “gentle parents” miss that whole point. They never course correct adequate and healthier ways of expressing displeasure. Little Timmy begins fucking up the house and it’s oh he’s just expressing his anger. No, he’s being destructive and inconsiderate of others. My sole role as a parent is to not raise assholes and unleash them onto the world! But because of my openness towards my daughters they tell me everything and view me as their bestfriend and i’m honored by that.
Hello. As usual, you have brought up a lot of interest facts and opinions on this topic. However, I believe children have always been mistreated and viewed for what values they can contribute to their families. The main difference now is the individualism and lack of a village when raising children. I was born in 1965, according to your graphic. I am a Gen X, and all the adults would say, "Children should be seen not heard." Also, the "village" would also say the same things people say about children that is said today. The few differences were instead of requesting for child free flights, they would say parents should stay home until their kids are old enough to travel quietly. Basically, the complaints about children and how they are seen in my opinion have not changed. Just the circumstances.
Yes that really bothered me about this video. Implying some mythical halcyon days when children were respected. That NEVER existed. Children are better off now than ever in the past. We still have along way to go to make this world an actual good place to live however…
Also Gen X here and I fully agree with you. Our generation is the one where they just stopped beating kids in school, at least in my country. And yes, children should be seen not heard. But preferably not seen either because parents would send us outside and didn't care what we were up to. And simultaneously we would amount to nothing because we were raised by tv.
@@valasafantastic1055 yeah I remember my dad saying "children should be seen and not heard" in the 80s-90s. He said he was told that as a kid and he was born in 1960. If anything people have more sympathy nowadays than they did before, its just that the people who don't like children are saying they'd like to be able to seperate themselves instead of telling their parents to abuse their children until they shutup.
@@Zectifin I was raised in 2000's-2010's and my dad always said children and animals don't have a say, so yeah I would say respect for kids is still a pretty new phenomenon and it has never been better. Especially because some of the child free spaces are meant to be so to protect children and many people in the movement want to raise awareness of potential parents to not be like the stereotypical not caring about their kid parent, because that's what it comes down to people who don't care about their kids the way they deserve being so common bcs of the it's a typical life stage stigma.
Many years ago a friend asked me if I saw myself having a family and at the time I said yes, I was around 20 or so. He asked me, “why would you like to have children?” I gave some really basic answers and presented imaginary scenarios of how life would be with that child. After a couple days I started to really think about it, and I felt I could not really give a selfless answer for why I would like to look after a little person, raise them, teach, help and watch them become their own big person. I came to the conclusion that the reasons I had were only centered around me and my own interests, rather than the genuine desire to take care of another life and help them to become their own person. That’s when I decided I would not have children, as I don’t feel I would be doing it “for the right reasons”, at least not reasons that I could defend to myself. If anyone else decides to have children and can justify to themselves having them, good for them, but for me personally kids are no longer part of the plan. And it’s not like I dislike children, I find them funny and sweet, and I do enjoy spending time with my nephews, nieces or friend’s children. In my twenties I was very involved in raising my cousin and agreed to be his god-father. I’m ok helping others raise children and look after the children in my community, but I do not see myself having one of my own. I can come up with many different reasons not to, which to me signals that I don’t really want them. If it was something I truly desired I would be just as capable of coming up with reasons to have them as I am of coming up with reasons not to. On the other hand, while I agree children have the right to take up space and be in public, I also believe adults can and should have their own spaces. While child free flights are ridiculous, adults are gonna adult, and children are gonna children, and a lot of parents feel entitled to having their children in places or events directed at adults.
You provided a very well-rounded answer. You’ve definitely given this a lot of considerable thought, good for you. 👍🏾 I think there are things that we anticipate, but I don’t think there’s any harm in idealizing the life that we want to have when we participate in a certain thing. What matters is how we’re able to curb our expectations when those expectations are subverted.
The amount of times I've heard people say they want/had kids because they want "a mini me" is baffling to me. These are the same people who say not having children is selfish. Make it make sense lol
I work with children in daycare and honestly? I have major sensory issues when it comes to noise/overstimulation. However, I've done my best to make sure my discomfort/outnbursts are never done towards/in the presence of the children. Because they're just kids, they just got here and they are still working on being -alive- let alone understanding the complexities of life like "spoons" or overstimulation. I excuse myself or ask from coworkers and management for help with my sensory troubles. I've put my foot down that toddler aged children I can't work with for 8 hours a day at a 1:8 adult/child ratio. Children aren't doing stuff outright maliciously but honestly don't -know-. 5 year olds aren't saying nasty things to their friends because they -want- to hurt others but because they think for whatever reason that "saying nasty things makes people listen/understand me/ that's how I go through this conversation. And I feel like a disconnect has happened because people just think kids should "shut off" or be mini-adults like all the tiktok viral children are. Some children are very articulate for their age but the majority are small and just testing every boundary because they don't know the limit to stuff yet. I had someone ask me point-blank "should we go back to bullying? Kids are too weird now" and I said how a majority of "weird" children are those with disabilities or even if they don't have autism or a disability they are just expressing themselves and probably feel safe to be themselves around you. Children will act like cats/dogs and pretend to be dinosaurs and yeah maybe it's "cringe" but just because a kid is acting...like a kid in a way that's not "marketable" to most people, they deserve to exist in society. sorry for rambling in the comments I just get really impassioned by this stuff both from being a child who was labeled as "annoying" and also working with children now I just wish people would realize you can not want kids/not like them but that doesn't mean you need to make it the -child's- problem/punish them for simply existing.
no 100% dude, you very right. as a younger gen Z I lived through the "gen Z cringeeee" and the immense ableism and queerphobia of the early internet. (does no one remember not even 5 years ago when trans and queer UA-camrs got runoff the web???) kids are gonna be super weird, people are gonna be super weird, but bullying or silencing how they feel is awful. "saying nasty things makes people listen/understand me/ that's how I go through this conversation" oh genuinely, I have been in alot of spaces where younger kids are around more often. and they just wholeheartedly don't understand nasty things are nasty because maybe the parents say it, or they picked it up somewhere and the parents haven't told them off, or they just don't know yet that these things are mean and awful. I've had to explain those things to kids before, and I understand your struggle. hell I'm not EVEN IN childcare! I'm just a random internet guy who doesn't want the kids to be spewing awful things if I can help it! I've taught kids internet safety, I've talked to mentally ill kids about their problems, I've helped out tons of people. but still I am not magic nor you are, we do the best we can. and it's just hard, but your students will remember what you did for them and that you cared enough to help them. don't be disheartened, sometimes people hide their troubles, sometimes people hide their joys. your doing the good work and keep it up! may life be kind on ya! -pop
OH MY GOD SERIOUSLY LIKE, whenever people advocate or suggest to bring back bullying I go into a rage state. Bullying is not okay and the reasons for it usually stem from other forms of bigotry and the fact that people think it’s a good thing appalls me.
@@sp33dweed77 Because I genuinely enjoy working with infants. Older ages are harder for me due to ratio amounts, but I do genuinely enjoy seeing children experience the world and my own history/trauma makes me determinded to make sure other children have a better childhood than my own.
The idea that children "should be seen and not heard" is so pervasive, at least in US culture. Toni Morrison addreses it in The Bluest Eye, really trying to articculate how that warps a child's sense of self. In Brain-Body Parenting by Dr. Delahooke, she explains how adults revere obedience and invisibility in childhood more than anything else. Even if that obedience is really a sign of emotional imbalance. I connected these ideas to my own personal upbringing, but never to the greater picture of where we as adults force children to stand in society. The way they're viewed as property, subhuman and continually exploited for profit across the globe. I'm really glad that nowadays people are pushing for "gentle parenting", but really just to view children with compassion and empathhy. We're breaking cycles and therefor taking a critical look at the systems that create them. Hopefully, this new perspectie that younfer generations are taking toward children will only develop to implement political change for future generations.
I definitely agree the younger generations have a different view and look at society than we did they have like an open mind and actually a spiritual take on it have you noticed.?
@@ROCKTRESSARISING I I'm really happy for that shift, I can definitely feel the spiritual aspect like you mentioned. Although I don't think I've heard anyone talk about it before We're in a place now where talking about cycles of trauma and being thechange is accepted (at least amongst our peers)
I'm so glad I took a high school elective where The Bluest Eye was required. I'm white and don't think I would've gotten the perspective it offers had I not read it.
@@supervivo7069 I read it my freshman year of college, and while I tried to be attentive to the nuances, I still didn't really "get it". But haven't it as a background I really think it guided my education on colonization and african american history. I'm re-reading it now after having built up my education some more and it really leaves me speechless, such an incredible book
Even compared to me growing up, I feel like things are worse, not better. At least my sisters and I could go outside and play until sundown safely, or we could think without short form media constantly telling us what to think/what the arguments are. The system is a scam; I was told to go to college to succeed, to do this and that, but I did as I was told (and even got a Master's degree) and make no more than a store cashier... So I will definitely emphasize options to my son, not putting all of his eggs in one basket. I have exactly one child since the system won't allow us to afford more or to have the proper time or attention for more. Both parents have to work; I've cut my hours so I would have time to spend with my son, but we can't afford to raise two on this reduced income. It's all money money money in capitalism. Also, yeah home prices are stupid, we're still renting an apartment but working on saving for a house. We want to buy a 2/1 for our little family of 3, and it won't be our starter home; it will be our only home. I turn 35 this month.
Your story sounds a lot like mine. I grew up running around the neighborhood with other children. I practically have to beg parents for playdates for my child today. No one ever plays outside, and playdates often involve going to a park or other public place, which means I don't get anything else done while my child plays. It's exhausting having to be responsible for every second of my child's day because people don't believe in or support free-range parenting anymore. I also got a degree, but within 3 years of starting my career, my salary would not cover the cost of a one-bedroom apartment in the city where I lived. I finally had to quit my job and stay home when my neurodivergent child started having extreme meltdowns that were triggered by school that were not being resolved with other interventions. I now work part-time from home at a job that still requires a degree, but pays less than what some of my former high school students made working in fast food. My husband was able to buy a house, but it's smaller than most apartments and is just generally not a very nice house to live in. I don't foresee us moving into anything bigger, especially if my child keeps having such extreme emotional reactions to going to school that I can't work (we are currently homeschooling, which is not ideal for a lot of reasons). My mental health is terrible, and raising a kid is just not something I have enjoyed doing, even though I do love my kid. Having more children is absolutely out of the question. I turn 40 this year, and I've basically given up on the American Dream. Ideally, I'd like to just leave the country altogether and live elsewhere. I just don't see it improving in my or my child's lifetime. I want to live in a place where at least my child can MAYBE have some opportunities that actually pay off, even if I never benefit from it. I also want to live in a more empathetic culture. Hyper-indivdualism really isn't working for me (or anyone really).
Children are the last humans on earth that aren't recognized as being worthy of protection from discrimination. It's so sad. Yet all of us were children, every single one of us. Thank you for speaking up for children. They are innocent, and all of us are responsible for taking care of children. ALL OF US.
Right that's what's crazy to me: we were all children once. These kids that some people don't want around will become adults. What kind of adults will they become if their world tells them they are annoying just for existing?
No, those of us who have chosen not to have anything to do with children are not responsible for taking care of children. The best we can do is no harm to children. Other than that, what do you want?
@@MK-hh1vo I agree with you. I will absolutely do my best to not harm children in any capacity, but it’s not my responsibility to take care of them when most people have made it abundantly clear that “nobody owes you anything”. So human beings as a collective are supposed to take care of children but elderly people are told to fuck off and die and not be a burden?
My ONLY thing I will agree on with the anti-kid thing is when you’re in a public setting designed for adults, and the parents let their kids behave the same as in a park. I have NO issue with kids going to a nice restaurant or museum, but what I’m talking about is when you’re in a nice restaurant and people are all talking quietly and suddenly a child is running around, screaming, and/or listening to loud music on phones or iPads. Kids mature at different speeds and develop differently. If your kiddo isn’t able to sit quietly through a meal or a movie, then they aren’t ready and that’s ok! Take them out when they are ready! I have NO issue with kiddos using technology either, but it’s the parents who instantly pull out technology instead of parenting. It’s not fair TO THE KID to be ignored by their adults!!! I have some “iPad kid” cousins and I tell you what all that annoying behavior people hate? Vanishes the second your interact with them and play with them and treat them like humans instead of just annoying things in the environment around you. Like when my cousins have control of their kids in public its such a disaster. They ignore them and try and shut them up. When I am the adult for the same kids? They’re perfectly behaved and happy to be respectful.
More and more Adults Only places are opening up, Themen parks start having childfree days. Airlines have childfree flights. It becomes more easy to avoid parents and their Minimes. And I am very happy about that. Let the parents do whatever they want, but far away from me.
Why on earth should I Interaktion with somebody else's children??? I am sure the parents know how to call down their Minimes and just choose not to. So why should I do their work???
@@CordeliaWagner1999 they're literally not telling you to parent other people's children, they're just saying parents and other adults treating kids as nuisances to be shushed doesn't lead to less annoying behavior from those kids, treating them with respect especially if you're a close adult to them (parent or family member) does.
I agree. Whenever I say I’m getting annoyed by a kid in a public space, I’m really just annoyed with the parents lack of boundaries or understanding towards their kids.
This video made me reevaluate my thoughts on children and my place in my neighborhood. I now have a strong desire to participate more and show empathy to the screaming children I hear on occasion. Cheyenne, this may be your best video yet.
It takes a healthy village to raise healthy kids. As a mom of 2 little girls with very little support, I wish there were more wonderful people my children could interact with on a daily. I have lots of mom friends, but everyone is so busy because again..very little support these days and we are always left to do everything ourselves that we run into exhaustion. Plus, no one really let's their kids play outside alone anymore.
Thank you!! The first time I brought my toddler on a plane, we had to wait forever to get off and I’ll never forget the single young man that tried entertaining her and kept picking up the toy she dropped. I thought for sure he was going to be annoyed, it was such a nice surprise.
@@janaekelisYes! Before I had a kid of my own this "annoying"little boy would come to stay with his father for the summer and whenever he saw me outside he would pester me. I always dreaded it, but one day I was like "you were that latchkey kid forced to spend summers with your dad who didn't want to be around you, no one was there for you but you can be there for him." I started teaching him to do chores with me, I played video games with him, and I taught him how to back cookies. One day when some kids picked on him he knocked on my door crying. I told him that if he ever needed someone to talk to that I would be there for him, and I talked to his dad about what happened to him. I helped him and it was healing for me.
Thank you so much for validating some of my feelings on the “kids can’t read” discourse. I really dislike how so much of the blame is being shifted to either the children or the parents and not onto the politicians and rich people who create, fund, benefit from, and take advantage of the system that created all these problems in the first place. people’s anger is so often misdirected. it can be hard to get them to see the reality of who is responsible clearly enough to move them to participate in community organized events or mutual aid.
I’m going to give my two cents about the ‘it takes a whole village to raise a child’ as a future educator. Sometimes parents also DON’T want to cooperate with the school too when their kids misbehave, and it takes a heavy toll on the teachers!.
Misdirection also comes from the lens of medias. Medias owned by... Those billionaires guilty for the situation. So it s no wonder they try to shift the blame elsewhere, it s what they are paid to do.
As a woman I've been constantly told that it's in my nature to love and want children, so I personally find it liberating to say actually no, I don't like kids that much, it's actually NOT mandatory that I like them and I prefer not to be around them. (I don't agree with being rude to kids or their parents in public, but I think it's perfectly fine to have a personal preference to not be around them and childfree spaces are fine in some contexts).
I don't know if i ever want children, I find them pretty annoying most of the time, but I have noticed this growing hostility towards children which is gross. people need to understand they're still young and are not capable of making great decisions, having consideration, or managing their emotions. the internet/tech is making it worse, and parents need to be more involved in limiting what they watch and teaching them consequences.
We're definitely regressing in that aspect to the point where i'm not surprised child labor making a comeback. its really sad to see. Its like folks have forgotten that once upon a time they were a child too. its incredibly selfish and inconsiderate. How people say you can tell a lot about a person by how they treat and speak of service workers, i think that also applies to children all the same.
@K.C-2049 that is my problem too... the parents.. most of the bad behavior comes down to parenting and i say this as somebody who worked with kids before.
@@hjblacdes61Honestly is it just me, or ever since Roe got overturned we've been regressing as a society? Like child labor has been making a comeback, the rise of the trad wife, and not to mention that mainstream feminism discussion pretty much shifted from talking about women's issues to LET WOMEN BE SUBMISSIVE!
I don't know how to say this in a softer, less brutal way but its people LIKE YOU who are precisely the reason for the hostility!!! What does it mean you find them annoying? Have you thought of it?? It means you have feelings of anger and frustration at repetitive loud noises that children create for example, right? Ok... lets follow this logic. Does that mean that people that "love" children find loud screeching and repetitive noises pleasant???
Recently my cousin's kid (about 4 years old) threw many tantrums when she visited for the holidays, and while some of the adults did the usual reminiscing on when they spanked or were spanked as kids themselves, I have to give my mom credit where credit's due. She acknowledged that we could've done a little better since the child was pretty much the only one surrounded by adults and for COVID reasons she doesn't know all of us as well as she would've under ordinary circumstances. She's always been a big advocate for reading a lot to kids to help them develop language and learn how to express themselves and to this day I love to read even with the challenges of neurodivergence. Ultimately the lack of village to me is definitely one of the biggest things that contributes to what we consider the problem with children existing in public and it sucks thinking about all the ways my cousin's kid will have a different childhood since none of my other cousin's really want kids and we don't always have the time to hang out with her.
I’m so relieved to see this being discussed. I understand not wanting kids but the outright hatred & dehumanization of them is disturbing. They’re just trying to get by in a world they didn’t ask to be a part of & everywhere they turn, there’s an adult waiting to kick them down. Seems like a lot of us forgot what it felt like to be a “crotch goblin” vulnerable & at the mercy of everyone else.
i dont think these childree people are making tiktoks for your 7 year old ipad child to watch. they're making them for other adults to watch. they arent outright bullying children, just complaining about them.. dont let your kids on a platform if you dont want them exposed to something. dont expect the internet to cater to you.
@@isabelamogosanu7777 ok and adults are the ones complaining about the child free tiktoks because some are harmful and endorse disdain of kids, and that negative sentiment can spillover to irl interactions with kids bc like it or not they are inescapable no matter where you go. The op never even said they have kids, I don't have kids and don't plan on it either, you don't have to have a kid to empathize with them.
It’s like a fun nihilistic trend right now. If you say “children are horrible I hope they die” it’s seen as funny or you’re so smart and cool. If I say “Oh look how cute or sweet my niece is” then it’s like I become lame or make everything awkward because I don’t have anger or hatred. Idk how to explain it exactly but as an older Gen Z it’s like part of the culture. Especially queer culture there have been many times because I am Bi, want children, and like being around them I’m seen as less queer and being a “breeder”. Those people (usually younger people) are completely ignoring the fight queer people have fought to be able to adopt and have their own children.
It's a shame that the creshes and playgrounds that used to be part of almost all workplaces have disappeared. They were a lot cheaper option, and made employers more empathetic to workers needs
THANK YOU FOR THIS. I'm a queer mother, and I constantly get left out of queer conversations about the rights and need to hear children (including and especially queer children) because every point I make is "well you're just trying to force people to have kids", when that's not the case. Every time I've mentioned that children are the most vulnerable and disenfranchised demographic, it's met with "nu uh! They cry when they don't get what they want," or "don't compare children to ACTUALLY vulnerable groups," and it's so incredibly frustrating because children can be anything, act like anything, be anyone; they're unique individuals just like adults. They deserve to be included in things. They deserve to experience the world safely. They deserve not to feel insulted and belittled by adults around them. You don't get carte blanche to hate an entire demographic of people for factors out of their control. That's prejudice. I understand not wanting children. Children should be wanted and loved. Children are wonderful. They're so creative, imaginative, optimistic, and curious. My kiddo teaches me new ways to approach things all the time and they're only in kindergarten.
i agree with you. they are, indeed, the most vulnarable group, because they are kids! they dont comprehend the world, they are growing, developmenting. they need help, they need someone to guide them. why people find that too hard to understand?
It's also ridiculous how many feminists (self proclaimed) absolutely hate mothers, there's so much hate targeting mothers in the world, disadvantages and discrimination in the workforce and etc, yet I feel that if we mention those things people just say "oh you just want to force people to have kids", "they made the choice to have kids so we have nothing to do with that", it's just sad, I feel like even though I'm also a feminist I have no place in feminist discussions because I have kids
I think it’s really important to recognize that most folks who feel active disdain towards kids have really fucked up relationships to their own childhoods. They were treated like a burden, a nuisance, a waste of space. And all of that internalized hatred of their own childhood self gets projected onto other children. I was a queer neurodivergent kid whose peculiarities were NOT appreciated by those around me. I grew up depressed, angry, and resentful. As I got older, got therapy, and learned how to talk to the neurotypical world, I started to actually like myself, and I HATED my childhood self. I also hated kids and was sure I’d never have them. After some inner work and some healing, I did end up having kids. As I came to have compassion for my childhood self, I developed deep compassion for all the kids around me, and started to see just how awful the adult world often is to them. I love and cherish my two kids. I also work as a therapist now, and have seen how impactful inner child/reparenting work can be for healing the wounds caused by growing up in a world that doesn’t value you for who you are. All that to say, I want to encourage folks to have compassion for the folks who hate kids. It makes me incredibly sad to see it, but I also get it, because I was one of those people. I hope we can all get the kind of support and healing we need to really value and appreciate all of the humans we share this world with, including children. I think, as we’re starting to challenge oppressive systems and dismantle capitalism, we can really build that kind of support.
Thanks for this. I do want to sympathize with the child free folk as the pressure to get married and have kids can be overwhelming. However, a hatred of kids isn't the answer. If people don't want children, please, by all means, don't have them. But I really feel that the increase in child free people has left us parents holding the bag (I have a very supportive husband btw). Nothing in terms of village or childcare or third spaces is going to improve for us, just more childfree people. I also was described as a very moody child, which I now have found out is a persistent anxiety and depression and undiagnosed ADHD (I thought I was autistic). My son is very likely on the spectrum so I'm trying to reach him where he is and not worry that he isn't doing what other kids do, and give him all the help he needs and look after our new baby. My husband and I are both in therapy doing as much work as we can.
Even if you had the therapy to dismantle the active disdain, ive yet to find anything that relieves the nervous system disregulation that comes with loud children. When being loud as a child was actively dangerous, experiancing loud children as an adult feels like an emergency.
@@AnxietyRaptor Oh for sure! That's baked into our nervous systems, and it's there to motivate us to actually meet children's needs, which is a good thing. If we can make peace with the fact that we're dysregulated, it's easier for us to approach the child, and the parent(s), with compassion. For me, some of how I did this was coming to my own reasons for being OK with it. Thinking about crying children on airplanes, I originally thought, "I shouldn't have to deal with this dysregulation." But how would that happen? The child's not capable of not crying. So in my mind, the only alternative is that kids aren't allowed to fly on planes. I personally want to live in a world where children are able to travel and visit loved ones who don't live within walking/driving/train distance, and I accept that sometimes the discomfort of hearing a crying child will be part of living in that world. I also want that to be as pleasant as I can for everyone involved. If I can share a kind word, or even a compassionate glance, with the parent to let them know that I want to support them, not judge them for the fact that their child's crying, I can help relieve some of that stress that's probably making the parent's (and by extension, the child's) dysregulation worse. I realize that my ability to do this comes from a place of privilege on some level, and that there are other folks who have a harder time managing the "a child is crying" dysregulation. But across the board, I think finding your own reasons to allow that discomfort to be a part of your world is important.
I agree most people like this had horrible childhood. However I have compassion for them until they actually hurt a kid. If they start making their cousins or neighbors kids feel unwanted and hated with snarky comments, actions, or yelling then my empathy goes away. It’s a cycle of abuse and thankfully they don’t have their own kids to abuse but they’re still hurting children and I don’t think that’s okay no matter your past. I agree that we should help these people grow but I think they when it comes down to it I will automatically care more about the innocent child who is being hurt than the person who is hurting them who had a horrible childhood. So I guess it just comes down to if they just have these toxic ideas or if they actually carry them out. That’s not to say someone who has hurt children cannot change for the better but for me personally I will not have sympathy for them.
@@vaporeonice3146 yeah, I'm childfree and I think it should be on parents to calm down their children or figure out why they are upset instead of just "letting them cry themself out", but I also have sympathy for the kids and hate how many childfree communities descend into anti natalism and child hate. Crying kids on planes are annoying, but I used to be a kid who flew on planes a lot because my dad works for an airline so we were constantly flying places for free. I get crazy motion sick when any kind of elevation change happens, going up and down hills makes me sick but a boat is fine, planes are the worst. I used to get so sick everytime we went on some vacation. I threw up into barf bags I threw up on the jet bridge as everyone was getting off the plane once and everyone had to walk around it. I'm sure the adults around me were annoyed by me, but I also have sympathy for the kids because I know how miserable I was as a kid on a plane, probably more miserable that most of them. Which is alway why I blamed my parents. We didn't need to take those flights. My parents wanted to go on lots of vacations every year and instead of finding something that was in driving range we always had to go on a flight and I just had to deal with being sick the rest of the day.
I think we need to have more empathy across the board not just for children but for people struggling while living on the streets and just in general really apathy helps nothing and no one except maybe yourself Empathy is beneficial all around!
That has been said 100 years ago. People nod and agree, turn around and continue to be selfish. The people who do the most change are the childfree women.
@@CordeliaWagner1999 are you sure? there are a lot of childfree spaces thar don't mince words about how much they despise 'crotch goblins' and 'breeders'.
@@CordeliaWagner1999yeah, because everyone needs a purpose in life so instead of family they tend towards changing public policy. Can be good or bad depending on the cause they choose. Hedonistic consumerism can only satiate someone for so long until they require a higher purpose whatever that is
When I think "it takes a village", I remember a friend of ours had a baby and their toddler at a Christmas light event we went to. When the baby got upset, the parents ran off to take care of her while I and the other 5 adults in the group collectively went to the kid area and took care of the toddler. One of those friends is not interested in having her own children at all, but she is also the first to volunteer to "borrow" the kids to give her friends a break. We need more people like that.
I'm going to go out on a limb and assume that the parent friends are genuinely good friends to you guys. A lot of parents want the village but think it means they get free childcare without ever reciprocating. It becomes every childfree / non-parent giving while the parents get to take, take, take. My friends, and my friends' friends are all not parents. I think it dramatically changes the expectations that are laid out, which causes more non-parents to flock together. We can avoid being seen as free babysitters and dealing with being told it's our job. We can relax without dealing with parent friends dumping their kids on us so they can ignore them. We avoid being yelled at for telling misbehaving kids not to break things. Thus, the village dissipates because it disproportionately benefits the parents in most cases.
I grew up with several honorary aunties and uncles who would watch us for a weekend, or take us shopping for school clothes, or out for milkshakes on our birthdays, and it’s something I’m very grateful for. Most of my parents’ friends never had kids, and most of them didn’t babysit us. But having a few that did was super great!
@@nursebee-vomit5058 I think this stigma of selfish parents taking advantage of childless people who are willing to help is a HUGE part of the problem. It's one more way that parents are judged and made to feel guilty when they may not be asking for help as often, even if they desperately need it. This mindset also helps to feed into the notion that anyone in our community is only good for anything if we get something out of interacting with them. It further entrenches selfishness and perpetuates an intolerance of children and parents alike, and just generally makes people more apathetic. Both parents and children benefit when parents can take a break, and childless people can benefit as well by learning to be more understanding and empathetic. They can also learn to set healthy boundaries if they feel that their friends and family with children are asking too much of them or being unreasonable, which is a healthy life skill.
We need to do something about tbe expectation that parents not get enough sleep. Sleep deprivation is a huge reason parents respond inappropriately to their child's behavior. And those responses form the child's early understanding of relationships
You talk about "the village". The thing about this is, I almost never heard anyone talk about "the village" outside of the context of caring for children. If you don't have kids, and don't plan to, it sounds like "the village" is all work and no benefit. I think a lot of childfree people worry that "the village" won't be there for them when they need help. Really, I think a lot of opposition to helping kids and parents is coming from that angle. As hard as it is to be a parent, there are a lot of resources out there for struggling parents, but if you don't have kids, it can be next to be impossible to get any kind of help. People without kids are often viewed as not having any problems or struggles, or that their problems are nothing compared to what parents deal with.
I agree. The stance of the video seems to be super critical of people who want to live by themselves. I think a lot of this comes from people having experienced interacting with others and the relationship being very one-sided.I don't think there's anything wrong with people having been fatigued with other people's issues and wanting to retreat to their own private space.
@@adriand6883 Yeah, during some Village discourse I was partaking in online, one person outright said "What were you doing for the village before you became a parent?". I don't expect The Village to be one to one transactional, but the fact that these people largely weren't doing anything for it before should have tipped them off to The Village not existing. I also feel like parents increasingly have this view that a place being kid-friendly means that kids are allowed to run around and act like maniacs. But even places that do specifically cater to kids still have some level of etiquette and rules to follow.
I’m going to give my two cents about the ‘it takes a whole village to raise a child’ as a future educator. Sometimes parents also DON’T want to cooperate with the school too when their kids misbehave, and it takes a heavy toll on the teachers!.
@@Feedmeyoubastard_00 Great point. That's another common problem with the "the village" conversation, a lot of parents today just don't want to cooperate with the village. And you can say that that's their prerogative, but the consequence of that is that they (and their kids) won't get the benefits of being in the village.
Thank you. There are definitely parents who abandon their village once they no longer become useful to them. A village is not a “service” you acquire and then discard. That is just a recycling of a capitalist and individualist mindset with a new paint coat. It is something you participate in lifelong and take multiple roles in. That means being willing to share your own resources and care to everyone.
Something simple my partner told me a while ago has reaaally stuck with me as someone who doesn’t really like kids; that we really are the ppl who without effort & without even thinking about it, play a pretty big part in molding the kids around us that we pass by, by either sharing a smile, or giving a cold shoulder. It seems silly to say but I had never thought of it being that deep but it is, & since then I try to never ignore a child who stares at me. I used to think that was so rude & it’d irk me, but now I stop and wonder what it really is that said staring child is thinking about, & how a simple smile from me could make them feel less lonely & less nervous in a world where at least from what I recall, had me feeling those emotions constantly
Great video, I'm child free but I don't think we should treat any people as undesirable and try to exclude them, doesn't matter what age they are. And just like we should consider people with disabilities, we should also consider children and families. Also, children and parents can have disabilities too, so I don't think we should exclude a group of people like that and treat them like a burden. Everyone should be included, considered and feel welcome by society. Edit: no, by everyone I don't mean people who harm others, like misogynists, r*cists, ab*sers, but don't act like you check for these things before boarding on a plane??? I'm clearly talking about not discriminating for things like age, race, gender, etc, my god wtf
@@CordeliaWagner1999 are you comparing children, families and disabled people to those people? Because that's a different topic. Context matters. But yes there's this thing, I think it's called something like "tolerance paradox", where you can't be too tolerant and have to be careful about accepting all ideas as equally valid, bc you can't tolerate people who harm others, like the examples you gave. But this is a different topic and I suspect you know that. I'm saying you shouldn't discriminate against people for being too young or too old or disabled. I'm not saying be kind to misogynists or yt suprem*cists, etc. Edit: actually narcissists can be treated, and I believe people clinically treat the other example you gave. It's just bizarre of you to give these examples in the context of the video, I'm clearly pro children, so why the fck would you bring up p**dos?
I feel like anytime I’ve been annoyed by a kid, the first person I look at is the parents. So many bad parents tbh and ppl who do not have the resources to properly take care of one, yet purposely have them
Obviously I don't know what situations you're referring to, but in general kids will always be annoying to some degree. No matter how good the parents are, they don't control their kids with a remote, they can't stop every bad behaviour all the time. I don't blame people for having kids, it's the most natural instinct in the world. I blame our society for making having a kid needlessly difficult, so much so that most western countries (and many others) have a birth rate below replacement. People really AREN'T having that many kids. And most of that has to do with time, we need to time to raise kids. So why the fuck are we working so much, so hard and so often??? Why do we do it when our productivity has never been higher? It serves no practical purpose other than making some abstract numbers get bigger. Who cares about our GDP? Working less would make (almost) everyone happier.
I have no idea what you're getting annoyed by, maybe it is something that should be blamed on the parents, BUT. I know a lot of people who just don't know a lot about normal child behavior. And it kind of sounds like you're one of them. Kids are "annoying". They just are. And it's actually normal and healthy child behavior to do things like have a tantrum in the middle of shopping every once in a while. (If they are around 3 and under.) It's actually a sign that they aren't in an abusive household. Most parents and people who are around kids a lot know this. But it's really frustrating when people are ignorant and assume any time a kid simply annoys them or has a hard time regulating their emotions, that the parents are doing something wrong. Please take time to learn a little bit about child development. Their brains are completely different than an adult's. Ps I've never had a kid who has had a tantrum or anything like that, I'm not some entitled parent, I'm a young person who just understands that kids are humans
@@lucievelyn4866 right??? I had a conversation on Instagram once bc someone was saying children shouldn't be on planes and they countered my point with something like "you're just an entitled parent / you have to give up stuff like going on a plane if you're a parent" I was like sir, no, I'm just a reasonable person ... So I felt the need to say that haha
So do you think 99% of people in Africa, who have fewer resources than the average American, should not have kids? Or do you only criticize poor people in the developed world who have kids so that you don’t sound like a eugenicist?
I don't understand the parent's obsession with trying to live like they did when they were child-free and taking their children to places that are clearly not designed for children. Sure, the pretentious brewery was your favorite date night spot when you were dating and newly married. Great! But you have a child that is screaming their head off because their ears are hurting from being in a loud, noisy environment surrounded by drunks strangers. I have also heard parents scold adults in breweries for "swearing near their child". It would have been unheard of 50 years ago for a child to be taken into a place with a liqueur license, now you can't take two steps without tripping over a humongous stroller. I think the problem is that a lot of parents refuse to accept that they're parents and the next 10 years will be nothing but Chuck-E-Cheese and that's okay! When the child is grown and they go back to their favorite pretentious brewery, they'll miss the times they took their kid to Chuck-E-Cheese on a Friday night.
I think it's less about trying to live like we did before we had kids and more about dealing with the grief that often comes from expending so much time and energy meeting someone else's needs while having no time or resources to meet your own or do the things you enjoy. I agree that parents should get a sitter and just go out to their favorite non-child-friendly place alone, but that's often a lot of work in and of itself. As a parent, I rarely go out because I either have to find a sitter or deal with the fact that my child is going to make going out less enjoyable if I go somewhere that isn't expressly built for the entertainment children (even going to the Grand Canyon with my child was a huge struggle). Neither option is convenient or easy, so I just stay home, and quite frankly, it's depressing as hell. I never imagined in a million years that having a kid would result in me basically being on house arrest because taking my kid places is awful. My kid (age 10) won't even go to the library without throwing an absolute fit. As a parent, I really do feel like a prisoner sometimes because even the most basic outings feel more like working overtime than fun family time. I agree that not every outing is suitable for children, but I also can't fault adults who just want to do something for themselves every once in a while. Most of us don't have a village of people who are willing to help make that happen, and it does negatively impact one's mental health when your own needs are never met ever. If meeting your needs means occasionally dragging your kid to the local brewery for a beer and your favorite burger, then so be it.
@@fairywingsonroses i was gonna reply but you beat me to it. You hit the nail on your head. The impact of kids especially on moms cannot be understated. I went from being a valued employee and hard worker to not working at all. Not doing anything at all. I actually suffered massive depression bc of the house arrest. No friends. No family. No work. No sleep. And certainly no help. As kids get older it gets easier but i would get shit on for not being prepared on the few times i did work. Or not wanting to do “fun thins” because of the amt of planning and energy exuded.
this is so true. in my opinion, if you're not ready to acknowledge your life isn't completely about you and your spouse anymore, i question if having a child was right for you..
@@fairywingsonroses I hope you don't take this question as an offense or an attack, I'm just curious but... you *genuinely* didn't think that having kids would change many aspects of your life? No family members or friends (with children) warned you about it? Perhaps even movies?
@@carriesnaps3508 unfortunately people really sugarcoat and glamourize childrearing and pregnancy even though it's basically unpaid labour, pop culture does it your family does it it's promoted as the end all be all. All of that while leaving the new parent without resources or guidance because it's all sunshine and rainbows and it's your fault if its hard and burning you out according to them
I think it's adorable how you assume that the people who dislike children are all childless themselves. An awful lot of people who dislike children, *have them* , for whatever reason, and that's why "I grew up with a toxic/neglectful/abusive parent" posts are so sadly relatable online. Most childless people don't hate them, they just don't tolerate them enough to be in charge of one 24/7, and that is called being responsible.
being neurodivergent i can't imagine hearing a child in public cry and not go "yea buddy, me too" even if i cannot handle it whatsoever and often leave bc of it. like yea it's hard with people around! you're so right!! and as much as i can't handle children i try to be sort of involved with the children in my family and advocate for them bc oh do i know my family wasn't and still isn't the most understanding with me. it's both frustrating to have to hear people be extra vile about children and also be grouped in with the people simply for saying you dislike/hate children. people just immediately assume dislike means you have violent thoughts against something which... idk man that's just not the case and feels like projecting. it also doesn't necessarily mean you dislike all of them, but just in general. just like you can kinda hate people but still be okay hanging out with some. i dont have to like people to not be a dick towards them and see them as people. are these people being complete dicks to everyone they don't like???
I think you do have to be kind of a mean or nasty person to dislike/hate children. Why should I think positively about you if you feel comfortable saying that you hate a group of people for something that they didn’t choose and is completely healthy?
Also if you hate loud noises I take it you hate disabled adults who are loud as well? How is saying “I hate kids” any better than saying “I hate people with tourrettes” or “I hate people with intellectual disabilities”? Btw I work with kids and many of them are not loud, kids can be very shy and quiet too. Do you hate those kids?
aaand here we go with the projecting and reading into things. nowhere did i say i dislike children because of the noise, its just one scenario that i brought up where i can get "bothered" but absolutely understand the situation and have empathy with the kid because i too struggle to exist in public spaces and it gets overwhelming! and i simply remove myself if possible bc the problem here is on me to cope with as an adult and i choose to walk the rest of a busride to both escape and also unwind. and for me saying disliking something is often not that intense. I see it as literal not liking, not being fond of etc. i just do not have the adoration that people usually have and expect of others. see the amount of people going "how could you not love these adorable cute and funny beings?" in response like, we just don't. it doesn't necessarily have to mean much more. hate can maybe be too intense but idk man people have different ways of meaning it. i certainly hate interacting with children that i don't know even more than interacting with strangers because i have figured out social norms with adults for the most part but with kids its a wildcard and i never know what to do, especially since they're in a very impressionable age and i don't want any part in accidentally saying something that will affect them negatively.
It's wild to come from a culture that believes children are sacred and live in a world where children are often treated as, at best, free labour, and at worst, unwanted property. Love this video and appreciate the labor you put in to the research and creation ❤ also love to see some familiar faces of my favorite neurodivergent creators ❤
I'm autistic and a lot of times children crying is really overwhelming, when I was younger I definitely fell in with the child free flights people, but now I'm older I just don't see it that way anymore. I cannot expect a child to make spaces comfortable for me, if anything it should be adults jobs to make spaces comfortable for children, and a part of that means giving them space and understanding to feel emotions. I remember planes bothering me a lot and crying myself due to the pressure, those other kids might be autistic too so if anything I should empathize with their discomfort. I have noise cancelling headphones and while they aren't perfect they are good enough. However, the one thing that does really bother me is when a kid is clearly having a bad time and is upset and their mom is trying their best to comfort them and help them calm down, and the dad is just completely ignoring the situation and not helping at all like it's not his job
While I do think there was good intention meant behind this video, making efforts to promote empathy and community values, I also think it is absolutely packed with a large number of problematic assumptions about childless people's backgrounds, upbringings, privileges, intentions, and values. You frequently start thoughts with something akin to "these people probably ____". I think when you're looking to promote the message of empathy, it should go both ways, which doesn't include making assumptions based on nothing concrete. As such, it's important not to invalidate others' feelings and opinions or to communicate the message that the opposing side should basically just get over it. Which is basically a portion of what this video seems to communicate. It's ok for people to want quiet and to enjoy their lives or experiences or how they spend their money without having to deal with the consequences of someone else's life decisions- in this case parents letting their kids run around screaming and being disruptive. It's ok for people to want to relax without that. And it doesn't mean they hate kids or that they're privileged or any of the other things this video seems to imply. People who choose to be childless face enough stigma and backlash without you spreading misinformation about them. Besides, if someone has a disability where sensory input is a problem or if they are infertile and being around kids is upsetting to them...maybe some people don't want to be around kids for other reasons. Your opinion comes across as being quite ableist in that regard. I think the point of view this video was trying to uphold (empathy) should be re-evaluated if true empathy is to be found.
completely agree with you. We should absolutely afford children empathy (hopefully no one would argue otherwise) but we should be able to do the same for people who simply do not want or dislike children and I am not a fan of how this is mostly entirely left out of the video
I think one of the really concerning things is the utter lack of empathy for children. On the religious/conservative side, you have people who treat their children as property. On the progressive side (typically younger people) treat children as being somehow less than animals. If you were in public and heard a dog whimpering and crying, your first thought wouldn't be "god I fucking hate dogs", yet that is a completely acceptable position to hold regarding children.
Not really. I love dogs and I love that my workplace is pet friendly and people are allowed to bring their *well-behaved*, *well-controlled* animals to shop with them. Same should apply to children. If someone brings in a misbehaved dog who starts barking at others, if they let their dog run around unsupervised, or don't clean up after their dog's accidents or lets them destroy merchandise, we are more than allowed to tell them to get out and ban them from bringing their dog in the future. When a parent brings their misbehaved children, letting them run around messing up the store and destroying merchandise, yelling and throwing tantrums that make everyone else's experience awful, we should be allowed to tell them to leave also, but we can't. We are made to grin and bear it. In both cases it is the fault of the guardian or parent, but why is it ok to tell one off and not the other? God forbid you tell someone how to parent their kid, talk to or even look at their child to try to mitigate their bad parenting. How is it that pet guardians are more self aware or at least more cooperative in most instances? If I saw a child whimpering and crying it would be the same as if I saw a dog doing so, I would feel the urge to comfort them. If I saw a child throwing a self entitled tantrum, yelling and being a coercive, manipulative sht, it would be the same if I saw a dog throw a tantrum because they saw another dog they didn't like, I'd find it annoying, disruptive, and I'd roll my eyes, judge their guardian and want them to leave. You really have to be some type of moron to think children are treated worse than, or as less than animals. If that was so, maybe we should actually be allowed to treat kids as we do animals, if they are treated so much better. We should be allowed to leave them home alone, tie them outside in the yard, get rid of them without consequence when they are a nuisance or no longer cute or conform with our lifestyle, even euthanize them if we see fit or if they have behavioral problems. And I assume you meant pet animals, because you can't possibly think we see children as less than or treat them worse than any other animal, animals that we use, farm, kiII, hunt, poison, ect.
People who hate children really do forget what it is like to be a child - it should be automatic empathy and understanding. You're so right in illustrating how individuals can just choose to live in a bubble of obliviousness, and how that diminishes their tolerance for anything less than their "perfect" environment.
It's ok to not like kids. Some kids don't even like other kids. A lot of them get along better with older people. This is not a reason to be mean to kids, though, ever.
@@Winnie-Wonkano it’s absolutely not okay to not like kids. Maybe thats the energy that you were raised with but its not normal or okay to dislike children, they are innocent beings.
I'm neurodivergent. Kids are a sensory nightmare for me. I dislike them. Never will have any. My upstairs naighbours have a toddler that scream and jump all day, every day. I hate it, but I have enough senses to know they can't do anything about it (or don't want to) so I bought noise canceling headphones that are way overpriced. Thank you for acknowledging needs of neurodivergent people because a lot of people who makes videos like that put us in one bag with pure Karens who basically want kids to travel in carts with cattle.
@@fortunamajor7239 how would acknowledging that impact how they deal with their sensory issues? They very clearly understand that it's up to them to do something about it (ie: buy headphones), I'm not sure what them also having been annoying as a child has to do with the sensory impact children have on them.
I definitely didn't dislike kids by any means, but this video really helped me change my perspective on them to an even more positive and empathetic view. Thanks Cheyenne!
Really liked your take on this. Being a millennial dad is weird, sometimes I feel an uncomfortable low key rejection from some my peers for having a kid as if I was some kind of traitor. A part of me gets it in the same sense that I've also stopped following some people on social media when they start posting way too many pictures of their kids and what not, and I also get that some people weaponize parenthood as a virtue of moral superiority or maturity, however I do feel that a lot of this anti-child sentiment arises from the frustration of not living in the future that was promised to us. In some cases this reinforces a culture of hyper individualistic values that is used as a coping mechanism.
I don't want kids because as an Autistic who struggles greatly with sudden, harsh, grating, high pitched, or loud noises and any unexpected, unwanted touch, with mispophonia and the tendency to have big violent meltdowns on a short fuse, and generally struggle with stress and emotional regulation, i honestly could never. Not even to mention the costs. We don't live in a family friendly generation anymore. And i can hardly take care of myself let alone others. It's not a lack of responsibility or adulthood. It's systemic.
I just think it's odd the way people dehumanize children without batting an eye. It's like people are objects until they are old enough to marry/fight/work. This attitude just perpetuates generational trauma.
Even after that they are still objects. Look for dehumanization in western (at least, the one I know) popular culture for the last 50 years. Boss, Employee, Coworker, Spouse, Children. "Reality Television" brought it even more into the open.
Excellent video. I plan to be child-free for awhile, in order to become financially stable and live out my life as a young adult. I am in no rush to speed up the pace of my life. I worked in childcare for 3 years during my teen years; what I’ve learned from my experience is that kids are wonderful individuals with unique personalities and interests. When given the opportunity, they will share who they are with you. They all communicate differently and have feelings, just like adults. It’s great to see what they are capable of when their interests are fostered. A boy loved theatre, so I let him perform for me. A girl liked math, so I taught her some higher level math. A boy liked Lego, so I talked about and built Lego with him. A boy liked dinosaurs, so I played dinosaurs with him and taught him new things about them. I built a connection with everyone of those kids. Once I realized how remarkable they all are, is when I began to finally see them as individuals, each with a story to tell.
i connected a lot with the toddlers at my daycare job. when one of them saw me get out of my car he’d babble my name and it always made my day. having relationships with kids is so rewarding. they’re all so different and special in their own way.
@@kaheivi that is so cute, that would make my day too! Whenever I showed up to work, I’d have kids run up and hug me. It was the ultimate compliment when kids would ask their parents to have me babysit them 😭 the girl I did math with, went as far as to ask her mom to have me give her private lessons.
I like the idea of child free places because of the parents not the kids. The kids aren’t being properly watched and cared for by their guardians at times and it stresses me out as a person who worked in childcare for most of my life
I’m child free, I’m 24. I’m child free because I have a lot of trauma and mental health issues. I love kids, I tried to be a teacher and work in a daycare. After a few weeks I noticed that I didn’t have the temperament. I have ptsd episodes when someone raises their voice, so all it took was one kid screaming in my ear for me to shut down into a flashback episode. I ended up getting fired because it was happening too often and it started making me physically sick (I was vomiting daily). So yeah, I would not make a good parent, my child would end up emotionally neglected just like I was.
The amount of assumptions in this video is shocking… most child-free by choice adults I know grew up in places with an abundance of kids, and those who didn’t grow up around a lot of kids, desired to have many. It’s like saying only-children prefer not having friends, when I know it to be the complete opposite.
this fuckass video is so judgy and ableist as well. im autistic and hate noise- should i have to suck it up when theres a child screaming near me and i cant walk away or my headphones dont drown them out?
I think I'm allowed to make an assumption too given the amount of assumptions in this video, but I think this lady has a superiority complex after getting over some not-so popular opinions she had herself on kids. She herself said that she used to be an asshole who was privileged and hated kids because she wasn't around them. Now she projects that onto the majority of people of the upper class and people she deems privledged throughout the video, because she didn't like that part of herself. Not to say hating kids is cool, but given how some kids act it's natural. So while calling all of these people who disagree with her assholes and close minded, she's simultaneously making assumptions about their motives and cutting off empathy.
Yeah while she does bring some valid points around 1/3 of the video the 'you baby hating soulless provileged pearl clutchers' tone kicks in. It feels like she's arguing with someone nonexistent lol
It's so weird to me, she opens the video acknowledging that millenials are the poor apartment generation, then assumes every childless by choice person is privileged enough to living in a sequestered house in the suburbs???
It's so ridiculous to me how easily we, as adults, forget just how terribly we were treated as children just a few short years ago. I'm 47, a parent, and I still remember just how difficult it was (relatively difficult, that is, I was still born the most privileged gender, the most privileged race, and in the most privileged country at the time). This is just another symptom of our lack of empathy, something we have struggled with since at least as long as we've been recording things. The only thing that will save us from ourselves is a huge paradigm shift toward more compassion and empathy
I think it’s important to note that even if you choose to be childfree, you have the ability to be a child advocate! Do your part to educate yourself as you (hopefully) do for any other minoritized group. Fight for children’s agency!
thank you! some people use being childfree to be hostile and downright abusive towards children instead of realizing the current societal landscape that is harming children and adults alike
I'm always gonna be childfree but I still love and seek to advocate for kids. Whole reason I want to work as a child life specialist, once I'm able to go to college. I want to care for them and ease their pain and fear. I just don't think I'd be happy as a parent.
I really don't understand the push back for child free spaces and events. Like folks are wanting a space for them to go to rather than kick out folks from a place they're already included in, why be mad at that?
I know it's not at all the main point of the video but thank you for bringing up how homeschooling plays into this. I was a homeschool kid and, without going too much into it, it was genuinely traumatizing. Like I have panic attacks when I have to stay at home for more than a week. I didn't even realize how absolutely numb and emotionless i felt until college, when I finally got to be around people for more than a few hours a month (tops). It's so frustrating that the only people who seem to care enough to talk about it only see it as a little whacky at best, and at worst actively glorify it, completely dismissing actual issues that students like me have experienced. It feels like a silly thing to get so emotional over but it genuinely meant the world to me to hear someone talk about it like that, it was so validating in a way I haven't felt before. Thank you
Yeah, even if your parents aren't abusing homeschooling to indoctrinate you and keep you from the outside world the lack of socialization with other kids and being outside of the house is mind numbing. I have been home schooled since grade 1 and I was so lonely as a child, even the two times I've been in the private school system I couldn't make any friends and extracurricular activities were inaccessible to me and my mom. I've had mental health crises over the pandemic because I couldn't see the only two real best friends I had, which was made worse when I found out they moved away from me. People underestimate how crucial interaction with your community is
also even if toddlers are well-behaved they are suddenly pushed to grow up faster by having their stuffed animals and security blankets taken away from them it's a lose-lose situation either way
My little brother is 10 years younger than me, my grandmother had custody of him when I stepped in at 20 to help split custody between her and my partner and I. Whenever someone asks about the custody situation there I always laugh and say “it takes a village!”
I used to follow a child free UA-cam channel and there was this person in the comments complaining about an autistic man in her neighborhood who had children. They didn’t describe his kids as being ill-behaved,just weird. That made me feel so uncomfortable
The disgust of kids doesn’t just come from not being exposed to them. It’s also comes from trauma around kids in childhood. A few of my friends who grew up poor were subjected to neglect, watching adults be torn apart by children, being parentified super early and more. And bc of those experiences they are very negative towards children. Just another perspective ❤
As someone who lives in urban housing in a major US city and has ridden public transport for the majority of my life. I find a lot of misconceptions about what this is like in modern day. There is definitely no common space for me to talk with neighbors. I avoid my neighbors as much as possible because I know from experience, the less people know about you the better. When I do go outside I have to watch my surroundings very closely. The people I see gather outside, typically gather out front of the liquor store down my street, and they're always intoxicated so walking past them I have no idea what they might do. All I can do is show no fear and keep moving. For myself at least, the worst that has ever happened was sexual harassment or racially antagonistic remarks. But now and then there are local reports of people being stabbed, beaten, pushed into traffic, etc. Because they made the mistake of walking by the wrong person. There is ZERO sense of community here. Its actually the thing I hate about this neighborhood, other aspects of city life I enjoy actually but the culture of anti-community is hard to live with. Same with riding public transport. Had a homeless guy call my kid a "screaming useless b*tch" because my kid cried for the 5 minutes we were on that train. I've witnessed many assaults on public transport. I've had to scream, punch, kick, pepper spray, threaten to stab, throw things at people just to get them to stop. Ive seen people brutally assault the elderly. Its not a communal space. Its not a space for my kid to learn how to connect with others. For me I view it as a space where my kid learns that the world is not a safe place, that some people will hurt you if given the chance, and that this is the reality of our world. We're family and Ill back you up until the end. Likewise, I hope one day when my child is grown, they will have the back of someone who is in trouble. When I was robbed on public transit the first time, I never forgot the people who helped me calm down and file a police report. I'll also never forget the people I saw being assaulted who I jumped in to try and help. It is the least we can do for one another as human beings. But what I really want to say is that I feel these things are romanticized heavily in the media right now, living in dense housing and taking public transit. Yet the major issues that afflict us who has been living this way for years already is never addressed. I would rather there be light shined on to it so that one day these things may change. I would love for my child to have a sense of community in the neighborhood they grow up in. But thats not reality in the inner city. Its every man for himself here.
I definitely do not want to discount your experience, but I think that city life with better safety nets and easy access to medical care, etc is very different than city life somewhere that doesn't have it as much. Personally, I was raised in unwalkable suburbs and eventually moved to Chicago. I was living on a grad student stipend and lived on the safer side of what was considered a border between a somewhat safe and not safe area but certainly not one the worst areas of the city. Most people I know were robbed at g*npoint at least once, although I never was, and I got used to some sketchy things on public transportation as well. Now, I live in England. My city is not huge, but the population density is even higher than in Chicago. I don't feel on edge here in the same way at all. It is actually a big part of why I love it here; I can walk/ride the bus places, and I don't have to worry about dying or being attacked. I also lived in various large cities in China for a year ages ago and felt the same sense of joy of public transport without the danger. When people romanticise public transport, I think they are thinking of safety + public transport like I have experienced.
Holy shit lady, I hope you move to a good republican capitalist city, living in fear and stress can't be good for you and your kids, we don't have any of those issues here.
@@kate4781 What you describe about city life in other countries is what I wish I could have for my own city. But it's not reality here. I've lived in an urban but rural neighborhood and it was so much worse there. I've also been to suburbs on the edge of nowhere and it was the worst living situation of all for me. But living in the city now for as hard as I worked to make it happen still has a lot of issues. I've never left the US, so yes I have a more narrow view of what the world is like unfortunately. Really, I am used to seeing the political systems here skewing the concept of city life in one direction or another, that either it is hell on earth or it is a perfect wonderland. I find both of them to be equally untrue.
As a childcare practitioner in training, I find the continued hatred and contempt for beings that we as adults owe protection to be deeply disturbing. As an adult, whether you are child free or not- it is your responsibility to help in a united effort to protect children from immediate harm. They didn’t ask to be here, and they are people who are truly innocent. We as adults understand of hardships of life- they don’t. They cannot comprehend the exploitation and abuse that hides around every corner. It isn’t fair to leave them to face it alone.
I wish there were more understanding both ways. I'm sure there are a ton of undiagnosed autistic adults who say they don't like kids (like I did) but don't really know why. We shouldn't be judged for that, especially if we're still being polite to those around us. We're allowed to state that we don't enjoy children without being judged for being out of touch, rich, or privileged. A quiet section in most places would be amazing and really solve a lot of issues for a lot of people.
I’m 35 weeks pregnant with my first child at 23 yrs old - I hope I will set this little person up to thrive. Doing everything I can prenatally to prepare for it and all but I have no idea what to expect
I’m so glad you made this video. I thought for many years about how anti-child this society is. Hell, just a very fact the trouble teen industry exists alone is enough to show that.
I just started working at an elementary school right after graduating college, and it has completely changed how I view kids, I didn’t expect to love spending my days with them as much as I do - yes they’re very cursed and dealing with a lot of garbage, but I’m still very hopeful about how they’ll turn out, they’re still amazing little dudes
Ear popping from higher elevations in airplanes is extremely painful for babies and children. They’re crying because they’re in physical pain. Speaking as an autistic adult, noise cancelling headphones exist and work wonders.
i feel like this argument also falls through when considering disabled people who make noises that are out of their control. i knew a kid in high school that had cerebral palsy and he made noises when he breathed. vocal stimming, vocal tics, etc also come to mind. it’s so close minded to ask someone to be silent for hours at a time.
Damn, i am one of those people that kind of hates children, like... Im one of the people the video is about, sure, sometimes I like hanging out with them when they are nice but as soon as they do something i dont like or i dislike the parents i just immediately go child hater mode... I never thought about this and I think this video held a mirror to my face and helped me realize that its not cool to be like that
I'm surprised you never mentioned parentification and how abusive it can be. I understand that making a village is a good thing, but i really think we need to still set roles for specfic people in children's lives. I was parentified at 12 and really had no say in the matter. I was taking care of a child that wasnt mine and instead of feeling like apart of her caregivers I felt resentment toward her and my parents. While siblings should help they should never be a primary caregiver. I also want to make clear that i agree with you view points stated here, I just hate the idea of having more kids so you have a free baby sitter.
I also grew up this way. I was parentified at 11 because my mom became very sick. It was a vicious cycle of me resenting her and then feeling guilty because "it's not her fault". It still was her responsibility to find an adult caretaker in her absence. It's taken me 20 years to realize that what happened was abuse.
A few thoughts: its easy to say "we should just talk to each other when something is wrong" when there is very real violence that can happen to people for interjecting especially when it comes to how people parent their kids. Not saying calling the cops is the answer for "loud" neighbors but i ive been threatened multiple times for just looking at people while they "parent" their kids Screaming babies on a plane is never going to be something i will want to be around. I understand it is developmentally normal. I literally grew up in the ghetto in NYC. I have never owned a car, always taken public transit. You can have empathy and still not want to be trapped with literal screaming and kicking in a melt down, over headphones especially. In other times of life, if kids are being loud and disruptive I can move away. Kids have the right to be in public, but I can't do that on a plane. If i can be removed from it, i would - just like i arrange for seats in a quiet car on trains so i dont hear obnoxious adults on their phones. That does not mean i dont know i used to be a kid, or hate children, or dont have empathy. If the argument is "you shoud be ok with it because you were a kid once and because you have to compromise around other people" my answer is " Perhaps if flying/other activities routinely causes the kids such distress, parents should consider maybe not doing it. Maybe they need to compromise their need to tan in cabo with their own children's wellbeing". Because, What of the children? Is being forced on a journey where you have meltdowns good for them? I also dont think child free flights are "shunning children" , unless there was a significant threat to accessibility for parents flying with kids. Which is probably not going to happen because thats a huge revenue stream. I deeply suspect parents are against this idea because they as well dont like being around other kids. I also would not categorize airplanes as public transit. It implies there are private alternatives in a similar method of travel, but private planes are so wildly expensive (are terrible for the environment) they are virtually inaccessible for the majority of flyers. The accessibility of private plane rides to things like cars, motorbikes, scooters etc is so wide even for people higher incomes. Finally i feel like this thesis is response to a very online argument and not really reflective of the western culture around children as a whole. The majority of people have children, so in reality the world is indeed built for that. There arent that many places in common society where children are not allowed to be. Bars (in the US) strip clubs, sex shops, etc sure. But everywhere else children are commonly accepted and there are many public places only children are socially accepted to be. If i wanted to eat at a restaurant or see a movie or get my hair braided or literally anywhere adults can have leasure time not connected to sex and drugs, there will be children. So im wondering if this type of reactionary video just amplifies the conflicting message instead of refuting it.
I had to scroll way too long to find a comment like this. In my entire life I have only ever found one cafe/ restaurant that didn’t allow kids below the age of 10, It was a lovely cat cafe in berlin. I just really don’t see the problem with having some childfree spaces like this. There’s millions of cafes, why can’t a few be adult only?
@@UwU-dw8em I agree. In fact, there may be parents themselves who appreciate having dates or meetings or even self time in such environments. She (the video host) several times mentioned pearl-clutching when referring to the deliberately child-free when challenged on that choice. But I’ve witnessed many who romanticize parenthood do that upon learning any individual is like that. They immediately make so many unfavorable assumptions
This creator also chooses the most unempathetic interpretation of childfree people possible. A lot of these people grew up parentified and are now finally in a position in life where they can have a boundary in regards to dealing with kids and she just brands them as hateful and selfish. It's honestly intellectually lazy.
Even for teens too, when you're a teenager you're stuck in this weird liminal space where you're too old to be a kid anymore but too young to be an adult yet. Teens need their own spaces too, spaces where high expectations aren't put on them but they aren't babied and infantilized either. I'm also a supporter of childfree flights, not just because as a disabled and neurodivergent/mentally ill person but altitude change and flights are super hard on babies bodies and is super distressing for them and I completely empathize as someone with inner ear vestibular issues and barotrauma. It just really boggles my mind people take their children to situations that clearly distress them and make them overwhelmed and ignore them, like bro your kid is crying because everything hurts the plane is noisy and their ears are full of fluid I don't think it's very safe or healthy for the small dude. I don't even like air travel that much, I much prefer the ferry/seabus or bullet trains and monorail to avoid the altitude and pressure changes that flights bring because I'd be crying too. I think parents need to be more sensitive to little kids sensitivities and sensory needs and realize how painful and scary some things are for little baby brains and accommodate that
No, i don't want to be around kids in general not because i grew up cuddle without kids but because i been around then too much i don't want to sacrifice my peace for irgsr anymore child free weddings aren't a bad thing people are allowed to have boundaries and make celebrities that work for them
I wonder how many people who hate kids had a bad childhood. Like it's easy to think of kids as spoiled and parents as bad, if you weren't allowed to be a normal children.
Not enough people say No to having children, and have made that other people's problem. However, children don't choose to be born or create themselves. And the safe spaces they need to grow and learn in a healthy way have been cut into and divided or just flat out removed, and that's not fair to them in any way.
As a waitress I deal with a lot of kids and parents. And yes serving children is stressful and inherantly requires more workd (getting high-chairs/boosters, storing strollers, explaining menu options suitable for kids, having to sweep up food-tornados, or change linens more regularly) but I don't get the hate most people have. Most kids despite the extra work are either neutral or funny and parents usually go out of the way to make the experience as painless as possible for everyone. Like parents with babies will wait until nap time and show up with a game plan and fit a 3 course meal into a 45 minute period and be super appologetic the whole time. It feels so mean and self involved to ban the usually considerate people from luxury for 12-18 years because you don't like kids. Also whenever there is a goblin child it is usually because their parent is an ipad-adult and they are actively ignoring their children. I am also floored by how not empathetic people are to kids. Like restaurants are loud, full of strangers, you have to wait for food at your table, you have to wait for your parents to finish their food, you probably won't get desert, the chairs suck, the may not have any food you like, and you might be eating at a weird time outside your routine. I would probably be missbehaving too if I was forced to strange food at a rave well after my bedtime
1) I was trying to communicate that children are higher needs customers it would be like working with a boomer on a tech focused project at a normal job but kids are like actively trying to learn and grow 2)Don't be one of those people who condescends service jobs. Most people who work at good restaurants are career servers and make better money than office folk and we just don't like sitting at work all day and enjoy the flexiblity and human interaction. We aren't some teen hired to work at the hell scape that is Swiss Chalet or Olive Garden who have cheep clinetelle and garbage work conditions@@CordeliaWagner1999
Your scenario of why children may act up at restaurants is exactly why children shouldn't attend restaurants or at the very least, there should be special sections or times for children.
Nah a specialized secion would be harder to work with from a staff perspective and organization perspective cause we don't know how many kids we will get (sometimes a group of 3 adults and 7 kids just show up an you have to squeeze them wherever, especially if you are an indi place that doesn't have crazy square meterage), and it would be more overstimulating for kids if there was just a whole zone for kids screaming and running. Restaurants aren't a peer to peer interaction like playgrounds it is a learing expericne for the social code. Being board and getting told off/ being expected to uphold certain behaviors is kind of how to raise a good person 101 and even if you don't want to raise a kid raw dogging the bad times are worth it in the long run cause you get better neighbors and grown ups@@MK-hh1vo
It's like, kids are a big responsibility. People being mature enough to recognize they wouldn't be good parents should be accepted.
completely agree! it's why i loved this video
exactly, I think ppl are just becoming more and more aware what it takes to raise a psychologically healthy child. Making the conscious option to put a pause until they were more ready is totally good and against the capitalist regimes
Most people having kids are the ones that shouldn’t.
I say they should be APPLAUDED.
I wish. But alas, we have people who would not only judge but sabatoge people who realize that all because you have decided to go off the social script
Working with kids made me realize how often children are at the whims of their parents. Often their parents don’t provide them with the care they need and the kids have no say, they need adults to access the system. It’s so sad. A lot of time I feel people assign a weird manipulativeness to kids actions. Like they are acting certain ways to manipulate adults instead of just being kids learning to deal with stuff.
we often assign some kind of individual agency to kids although it's completely nonsensical because kids are basically acting out of mechanisms that are working a certain way their parents and people around them act, basically all you see a kid do is what his environment reinforces him or her to do, they don't scream and act foolishly by themselves, even the most "spoiled" kids are not acting in that way because of their own decision, it's the adults who cause them to be a certain way
Both can be true at once. Children are manipulative, that does not mean they have malicious intent. They're just kids being kids (or rather, human, as that is a human behavior), and that is a normal part of child behavior.
I can totally see in my own toddler how she fakes being hurt to get attention, she is also having a phase of fake laughing very loudly to get attention too. But both of those are fine, that's just part of good development- developing their emotions, testing boundries, etc.
The most traumatic childhoods I've heard about Include parents who simultaneously treat their children as an extension of themselves and then treat every action of their child as though their child has manipulative ulterior motives - often motives that exceed the child's cognitive ability given their brain is still growing. It is the saddest thing because it's teaching the child that the world is this sick twisted place that it really does not need to be.
Reminds me of how Saint Augustine described children as being naturally sinful, manipulative, and selfish. He was pretty influential in Western philosophy, so that could be a potential origin for why people believe that in the West.
I see this in my little cousins. They act up or behave manipulatively only because that is literally the only way I’ve ever seen them recieve any attention from their mother. Other than that she treats them like accessories. Kids NEED attention from their parents, so whenever I see that behavior I know it’s just them trying to get what they need using the only skills they have learned.
I think it's interesting that kids are judged so harshly for their lack of emotional regulation but many adults have a hard time regulating, also. Granted, abuse usually plays a big part in that, but as you've mentioned, there are so few resources to make our society healthier and our social programs have been in a steady decline since the 80's.
Right! Kids aren't ok because THE PARENTS AREN'T WELL
This is so true
I’ve dedicated my 25 year career to child development and supporting parents and families. All I can say on this is, kids are WAY better than adults in every way. Adults have the same shortcomings and challenges as children, the only difference is children have the viable excuse of not having the life experience and brain development required to appropriately regulate emotions. Adults are the assholes who behave inappropriately even when they have the means to better themselves and do right by others. Yes access to mental health resources as an adult play a major factor, not everyone can afford mental health care. But also why is that? Is it because the children have denied it to the adults? No it’s the adults in power who have denied it to themselves and other adults. Hence my original statement; kids are better than us adults and we’d do well as a society to put prioritize their healthy growth and development above all else. And also listen to them, they have so much more wisdom then we could ever expect or understand.
THIS! I always felt like I had to be more emotionally mature than my parents. I was only allowed to express positive emotions and never allowed to point out when my parents did something wrong because “nobody’s perfect.” But I was expected to never make a mistake.
Even now with a lot of estrangement from the younger generations to their older generation parents, the parents still don’t wasn’t to be accountable for pretty bad parents who only kept their kid alive with food and shelter but want never ended gratitude for doing the minimum of what was required of them.
it's also the classic - when someone judges you harshly, they are seeing in you something they can't accept in themselves. I believe this is why adults bully children - they haven't learned the lesson themselves and they're too proud to admit their own faults, seeing them in someone else with less power is the perfect opportunity for those people in denial about their own lives to try and ruin it for someone else too
In school I remember watching a TedTalk by a teacher, and the teacher said something along the lines of “no matter how terrible a child is acting or how much you despise them, you never let a child know that you dislike them.” That always stuck with me, and I always think of it whenever I see adults talking shit about children (especially to the child’s face). Children are sensitive and can definitely act terrible, but they are still people and deserve to know they are cared for and can grow to be someone more behaved.
Well that must have been a good teacher. The ones that disliked me didn't hide it.
They should embrace thire terabileness as early as possabile, better than trying to change a idiots mind.
It's quite cartaric.
People have already discussed that it's useful for kids to know that their behavior has social repercussions.
I don't think we should give our children everything they want, don't tell them they make mistakes, don't yell at them or assert dominance over them. It is only nautral. Just look at asian households. But you shouldn't be overtly abusive, only do things that are justifiable to the mean they make their mistake. For example if they dropped their toy, tell them that they dropped their toy and don't do it another time. If they break their toy then don't give them a toy reasonably for a couple days to know their mistake, but don't hit them or take away their nutrition. We shouldn't over protectively care for our kid too much, but should monitor them, and teach them. We should have the right amount. If you don't yell at them or tell them they did something wrong or give punishments, then when they get out in society, they'll be a big crybaby or not be used to not having a parent with them. Give them enough so that they have the right knowledge to build on.
I think one of the major reasons for child free weddings isn’t just because people hate kids (while there definitely are people who do) it’s the fact that there are lots of parents who don’t or won’t monitor their kids during the event.
It is usually not a safe space for kids even if you plan for having a more child friendly wedding. The same way a bar is not just childfree for the adults enjoyment but also for the kids safety.
@@blushandberries624 I totally agree. Being surrounded by mostly drunk adults is not ab okay place for kids. I don’t understand why people feel the need to include very young children in weddings. I was probably around 10 or 11 when I attended any of my relatives weddings. Kids need to be at an age where they are independent and don’t need direct adult supervision. Plus young kids aren’t going to be able to enjoy themselves anyway they’re probably just going to be tired and overstimulated.
A few months ago I read about a kid who *died* at a wedding that was supposed to be childfree. The kid was the bride's nephew, I believe. Bride's brother/sister (I don't remember) insised, and what happened? Their parent(s?) was partying and drinking, grandparents were also enjoying the wedding... no one noticed when said kid, running around, smashed their face on a mirror and were on the floor, collapsed, bleeding. It was a waiter who noticed, and by that time the kid was already gone I believe. Some places are childfree FOR A FUCKING REASON. Same goes gor resorts/hotels that have cliffs, or have stairs and other facilities who are not safe for kids. But entitled parents resist, insist, and when tragedy strikes they are the first to try and blame everyone else. As was the case at the wedding, the parent(s) tried to sue the event hall...
@@NynNahh OMG that is so sad.
@@NynNahhhonestly, I don’t think the problem was with the kid being at the wedding, but with the parents being negligent. If you bring your child to any event, you need to watch them. With family like this, it could have happened at a family barbecue…
I'm childfree by choice. Not because I dislike children, I just wouldn't be able to handle taking care of them 24/7. I'm more Auntie material than Mom material.
And that's a tremendously important role!! Children *need* people like you, the "cool aunt/uncle" that they can have a very different but still super positive relationship with.
im childfree bc well, i am 19, but for my friends and family that have kids, i have always been the role of the elder who isn't too old. yes, one day I'd love kids, but i feel like what a lot of people dont get is that there are benefits to being a good impact on kids around you. it takes a village to raise a child. i have an aunt who is childfree but has been an incredible nanny for the past 30+ years!
being childfree is only crappy if all you do is talk about how much you despise children for being children, instead of observing your role in the greater society we create
same here! i've also generally leaned into being childfree by choice. i've never disliked children tbh i always got along with them and i even took care of one of my younger cousins when she was a newborn and currently a toddler
the main reason is that i have a list of medical and physical related conditions that i would never want to pass down onto someone else, also yeah i don't think i'd be fully capable of being able to take care of them 24/7. i'll always be supportive towards kids, but i do not need to have a lineage to validate my existence. just being alive and having a positive affect on people's lives and the world in general is already good enough for me
(i am not ND so i cannot relate to the topic talked about earlier in this video as i am neurotypical, my mental health related issues are psychiatric which could still affect any hypothetical children of mine)
Don't blame you there, as I'm more of a child-free uncle material than child-included father material.
I'm exactly the same. I would love to be a cool aunt (if only my siblings and friends weren't also child free LOL). I'm more than happy to be a part of the village that raises a kid without having my own.
As a Gen z, i remember hearing everyone complaining and making fun of millennials as a kid, and then as a teen people started doing it to my generation. I’m surprised at how fast they’re doing it to Gen alpha. They didn’t even wait till they were teenagers yet
I think the whole hate mob towards gen alpha was due to the fact that even people born in gen z are starting to not understand memes and slang that gen alpha has created, and thus, because gen alpha is so “cringe” that somehow creates justification to bully and harass them. In reality, that’s just gen alpha creating new memes and slang that suit the newer generation. Sure, we may not understand it as well as we could with gen z, but we should still allow gen alpha to create these memes and slang because that’s literally just how culture changes.
Same, also on the topic of Generations, is it just me or have a lot of gen Z dudes have gotten into the whole marriage/wife/girlfriend bad memes that gen z used to make fun of boomers for? I wonder if it's a phase that dudes go through.
I've also notice that a lot of gen z memes are becoming more like the "life sucks" memes that millennials used to be known for and less of the absurdist comedy that gen z used to be known for. I also wonder if that's also a phase that people go through as well.
Young people make mistakes, and the world is changing at a rapid rate. I realized how dumb criticizing people by generation when I read an article about it happening in ancient Greece.
@@kittykittybangbang9367 i think the "wife bad" memes are because of the increasing popularity of misogynistic figures like andrew tate or kevin samuels in general. Reactionary figures like this usually become popular in times where progress is actually being made, which is why they seemingly pop up so suddenly.
As for the "life sucks" memes, i think it varies. Older gen z is some combination of the 2 imo, whereas younger gen z is more similar to the gen alpha.
@@pennyforyourthots Hard agree. Even though I'm early-mid Gen Z (born in 2002), I feel more like a Zillennial (cusp of Millennial and Gen Z). A large part of it was because I didn't have many friends my own age when I was little and I grew up with the same stuff my older sister (born in '98) did. That, and my parents were considered older parents at the time and my sister and I were exposed to a lot of the late Boomer/early Gen X stuff. A lot of it probably has to do with where and how the people in Gen Z and Gen Alpha were/are being raised.
Yeah, being a kid has always been rough. Anyone else remember a teacher or a principal saying, "You have no rights in school!"
Which is bullshit because you absolutely do have rights as a student.
@@Funeral_Mannequinwhich is crazy recent too
No. And I was in Catholic School.
What school did you go to?! Thats crazy never heard that being said when I was in school.
For me, it was usually “you give up certain rights when you go to school”
"I don't hate kids, I respect them. I think they should have parents who want them." -childfree icon Christina Yang.
Love Christina in general but especially for this❤
I know whenever my mom saw a baby or toddler cry, she'd say, "aww, it's tough being a baby." Because it is. Everything is new and upsetting. We should be like my mom.
that's how people should be I also think this way whenever I hear babies cry in public and I just want to comfort them
@@fatimahanwaar306 I have the exact reaction because of mental illness problems and tokophobia, but I still feel bad for the poor kiddos because it really is hard. I was that kid once, being disabled and neurodivergent with no diagnoses was especially hard.
@@S3lkie-Gutz children being neurodivergent and having mental illnesses are more valid than adults since their brains are still developing and they are already learning how the world works meanwhile adults are just infantilizing themselves
When I'm somewhere with my kids and I hear another kid or baby cry or have a tantrum or whatever, I say to my kids "aww, they sound sad. You feel sad sometimes too, right?" (Paraphrased bc my kids and I are Dutch) usually semi-loudly, so hopefully the other parent can hear it and feel seen by someone.
@unbotheredblitz They have no context to view the world in. They are constantly hit with a barrage of new information, and have no idea what to do with any of it. Bright lights, loud sounds, and they don't know what any of it means. Imagine how a wild rabbit would perceive New York City. And to top it all off, they can do nothing. they can't protect themselves. They can't even lift their own head. They are completely helpless in a bizarre and terrifying world. All they can do is scream and hope someone is there to help. I'd rather worry about my insurance than be a baby.
I don’t get annoyed with children so much as I get annoyed with their parents. I remember when I was walking through Christmas lights and there was this toddler screaming for her mother. Immediately me and the women around us started asking who she was with and if she was lost. Turns out her father was several feet away…on his phone.
Same with flights. Children screaming from the change in altitude is fine, but when they start kicking the seat while the mom or dad is on their phone, I get upset.
Yeah nobody wants to acknowledge this either. Because it makes you sound like an old person. But parents being on their phone in public and also behind the wheel of the car. Is causing so much problems for society. They have no free time so they are always trying to scrape whatever time on the phone they can. Like little phone goblins they can’t stop To the point where they all have hands-free phone stuff in their car which is still distracted driving. Because I see them inevitably changing stuff on their phone while they are moving. None of them can drive none of them can be parents and they shouldn’t have had children without preparing
@@smokedbeefandcheese4144 the old people are half-right about the phones. The thing that makes them wrong is that they either don’t know or don’t care that our phone apps are specifically made to be addictive. It’s not a moral failing to be addicted to the internet. Our brains hadn’t evolved to deal with it.
Maybe you should have a little more compassion. Parents NEVER stop working. They are always on. It’s chronic stress.
@@AmbitiousNoodle no?? If a child is screaming and crying and so far away from her father we don’t know who she belongs to and he’s on his phone, that’s on him?? I’m not mad at him because she’s upset. I’m mad that he’s letting his child be distressed SO HE CAN GO ON HIS PHONE
there were multiple times where i could have gotten ran over due to parents' giant 2 kid strollers taking up sidewalk space during a christmas lights display. like...both the kids are having fun dancing outside of the strollers, can you collapse then please!
I totally get the childfree wedding thing and I do NOT think the bride and groom should have to pay for childcare but I also think they should be ok with people not coming if they don’t want to leave their kids at home. You have to decide if it’s more important for you to have high attendance or no kids - you can’t have it both ways!
Yeah I have zero problem with adult only spaces. But as she said, a private event is different from children in public spaces.
Agreed. Any rule you impose that will make your wedding more difficult to attend is going to reduce your guest list some.
@@Shay416 Oh I totally agree, I will be having a childfree wedding lol!
I’m also fine with childfree weddings. At the end of the day it’s a big boozy party and it’s fine for kids to not be invited to that.
I’m getting married next year and can already barely afford it, saying the married couple should pay for childcare is ludicrous
Just stay home, I won’t be offended but I can’t afford to take care of your kids on top of the event
Sadly, children have been seen as a source of free labour (both domestic and non domestic) across the world for thousands of years. Child labour under capitalism is an extension of that age old practice.
Exploitation doesn't extend backwards through all of human history.
It's a remarkably recent phenomenon. The exploiting class wants us to believe this nonsense goes back thousands and thousands of years. It's not true.
Colonialism changed everything, including our view of history.
Did you watch a single second of this video?
have you read the article "Florida legislation sparks child labor debate" by WJCT 89.9 News where "House Bill 49... aims to ease up on work rules for 16- and 17-year-olds" @@xzxoxlx ?
And mothers are doing 90 % of the work. So I can see why mothers are fed up. Men do nothing when they create "accidents" yhry ditch the woman.
no, it isnt. that implies that capitalism is a natural progression of humanity rather than a perverted social construct that is relatively new in human history and requires suffering to function. child labor under capitalism is not an extention of "age old free labor from children".
The real bummer about iPad kids is restaurants are now providing tablets for kids instead of crayons and menus, and even in my 20s I could still use a lil game of tic tac toe or coloring while I wait to eat
I hate these tablets cuz half the games you have to pay for. The coloring menus were always fun and FREE
@@SebastianSeanCrowalso a coloring menu is disposable and probably wasn’t handled by tons of random people beforehand.
@@notNajimi that too. I wasn’t even thinking about that I was just thinking about the times I tried playing those games but couldn’t cuz I didn’t want to have a separate bill just for being bored 😭
They have had the tablets at restaurants since atleast 15ish years ago.
They had then when i was a kid at most restaurants i went to, I wasn’t allowed to use it but I remember seeing them
Target has these great activity packs that come with stickers a little coloring book and 4 crayons it’s small and it’s only $1 I always bring one when I take my 2/ 1/2 yr old out
There are parents who have a “village”, but the individuals in said village lack the emotional intelligence for parents to entrust them with alone time with their children.
This is not always true. Or even often true. Though there are some.
@@markd.9042depends on where you are. Where I live now, it's still seen as socially acceptable and common practices by most to punish children with physical abuse. I would not be able to let any of my older relatives watch my children, as they really can't be trusted not to snap and hit kids whenever they become inconvenient or troublesome.
@@TheAwesomes2104 Yeah, we all know those kinds of people.
@@TheAwesomes2104
Yep. Don’t want kids. My parents say some out of pocket shit. Casual racism and sexism and I would never allow them around kids if I changed my mind.
I’m going to give my two cents about the ‘it takes a whole village to raise a child’ as a future educator. Sometimes parents also DON’T want to cooperate with the school too when their kids misbehave, and it takes a heavy toll on the teachers!.
It’s really good to see someone standing up for kids. I both would never and could never raise one, but children are constantly exploited, forgotten, and blamed, yet it’s still rarely acknowledged. And as a former child (obviously), I still remember the glares and snide comments of adults who blamed me for existing in situations I had no choice in.
People don’t really like to think about it, but the more hateful we are towards children the harder it is to protect good children who are being abused, etc. Thinking poorly of children doesn’t exist in a vacuum and people who are CF including myself need to stop grouping annoying parents with their children. The children have nothing to do with it.
Yeah I think it's weird that anyone would assume that because you don't feel you have the resources or even the desire to make your own children… That therefore you hate all children. Which is so weird.
And also it makes no sense for adults to say this because we were all kids once.
How did some become trunchbull? Jeez. She is not supposed to be the ideal.
i remember being a tiny child with basically no concept of complex ideas and i always felt guilty for crying in public
@ruthile7805 the childfree subreddit is 80% stories complaining about bad parents with kids! i agree with you!
I think the problem with the iPad kids meme is that it misattributes the lack of engaged parenting to a failing in the child. It's actually crazy. The one time I have been upset flying with a baby on board was with a mother who put on industrial strength noise canceling headphones and slept while her baby intermittently wailed the whole flight. The baby was crying when she did this.
I hadn't made it to the summary part at the end. I mostly agree, but I think that the parents should be aware that iPads/tablets are being pushed on their kids and should be responsible enough to push back, no matter how tired they are. My parents made a conscious choice to limit my screen time (tv, home pc), and didn't get me game consoles. They both worked. They were mocked by other parents, and other millenials my age think that they were out of line, but honestly I'm happy that these things were replaced by books and legos.
@@001HK0 I think its a balance, game consoles and smarthpones, especially smarthpones, are good when children are older and have proper alternatives.
As someone who's emotional needs could have been better met that kid is defiently gonna grow up with a lot of emotional regulation problems. 😬
Yeahhh, I don’t mind if a baby cries because that’s what babies do but I will be mad if nobody tries to help them at all.
I also don’t want my kids growing up having to deal with your kid who has fucked up psychology because you decided to make your baby microdose parental abandonment.
@@001HK0I agree with everything you said. My parents did the same thing, I wasn't allowed to own a game counsel and I always thought it was kind of ridiculous and that it ostracized me socially, up until literally just now, reading your comment lol. now that I think about it, I have so many memories playing with other kids outside, and having to learn how to get along with them, i played so many sports, had a lot of hobbies and interests, but I also knew how to use my imagination and entertain myself with barbie's for hours, play dress up, and even enjoyed reading all the way through high school. I had so much fun as a kid, and sitting here thinking about it, those experiences likely played a huge role in allowing me to be an emotionally intelligent, independent, creative adult with a really good friend group and good morals. the replacement of parenting, child enrichment, social skills and so on, by hand-held electronics, is stiffening children's development and in turn enforcing hyper individualism. I guess my parents decision to not buy me a nintendo DS, no matter how much I begged, was ultimately a good one😅
In my experience of having been a disabled child, I felt my parents resentment of me keenly growing up. (We are estranged in now that I've reached adulthood and frankly it's been better for my mental health.) There was always this push of trying to get my body to function as that an able-bodied child. Any accomplishments and who I was as an individual were secondary and were often ignored. There's nothing like wanting your parent to notice you and wanting to make them proud in a public space only to be yelled at about your body once you got to the car. (That is if they come to any of your events at all.) My disability was a source of shame and embarrassment for my family of origin.
I feel like American society esp. excuses the mistreatment and abuse of disabled children because they're so "hard for the parent to take care of". Older generations were conditioned to have children in order to have someone to take care of them in old age. Therefore, the universe owes them able-bodied child. Capitalism reinforces ableism. Honestly, all of this is to say that if you can't stomach the idea of having a disabled child, please don't have children. I was the eldest and no child wants to be resented for their entire existence.
Same here. It's specific, but growing up, I don't remember "adults" in a good light. As a small autistic kid, adults often seemed to randomly hate me -parents, teachers etc. It was really hard for me. Especially since it didn't start out like this.
Turns out I had "Gifted kid" syndrome "disabled/ND edition". Aka: When I was small, I was a typical gifted kid. Brought good grades, very smart, very positive. However, when I turned from a small, cute bubbly kid to a burned-out, bullied teen whose grades slipped rapidly, moods changed. Per se:
In hindsight, I was basically left alone. Nobody taught me how to socialize. Nobody taught me hygiene. My parents were the Gen-X cliché of "going outside and coming home when it's dinner time". They put it on me to learn all the things abled/NT kids just do. And when they saw the red flags it didn't...well...they took it personal.
Teachers & guardians became similar. My happy "quirks" were now turned to angering "tics". e me perform "calming activities" like pressing down my legs to suppress stimming (fun fact: suppressing stimming causes physical pain). I also had teachers call my mother every. Single. Day. to complain about minor stuff she found annoying like "Leroy looked out the window for 5sec."
Or, take the example of a classmate & I who both had shitty handwriting. The classmate was best in math. Brought the school prizes at competitions. Like small-me, she was excused for being "quirky", while I was lectured about laziness.
As an adult it got a lil easier again. Mostly because I'm raising myself now. That said, it's still extremely hard. Like, I literally was told by my college that my doctor's note is basically a "suggestion" and that I need to handle balanced treatment out with every individual professor I have??!
In that sense, I disagree with you: If you don't want a disabled kid -only have able kids.
Not everyone can deal with disabled kids, and if we force a black/white "either/or", people will try do show that they can. Which is shit, cause every disabled kid should be born into a family where it's really, actually wanted. Not because of a "moral option". Instead, I'd suggest forced pre-parent classes, in which the biases are addressed.
Like -do you/ do you not want X kids cause of sensible reasons? (lack of money for treatment, trauma, not feeling qualified even)
Orrrrr, do you want /not want X kids because you have Y/Z stereotypes about them?
I have autism as well, and I didn't realize until I was an adult how many times my schools called my mother, I genuinely thought most of my teachers had no qualms with me, especially in high school where I was the most quiet one in the room.
My neice, I've thought of being autistic, or something else since she was 2. You just, sorta know sometimes when you're neruodivergent and you're meeting another neruodivergent. My (middle) sister thought early on I had autism as well. She was right.
I've been trying to get my (eldest) sister for the past couple years to get my little neice diagnosed with something. She's had delays in childhood milestones, she's smart as all hell but really needs that extra help to learn how to apply herself.
But apparently, my sister said she's, 'too smart' to be autistic and says she's 'worried if she gets diagnosed she'll be bullied'. Like I, a person who has experienced this first hand, with my own experience and everything, isn't enough proof for that, like her family, friends and her daughters teachers aren't enough for that. I was bullied heavily, and I wasn't diagnosed until the age of fifteen, and it hurt for so many years not to have an explanation for it, from the age of about eight I thought I was a horrible, rude and selfish person, maybe insane. My diagnosis made me feel whole and started me on a track to bettering myself, learning to love myself, for the past six years.
Tldr: Diagnosis early on good. Making excuses as to why your child doesn't have diagnosis bad. Take the person in your life with autism more seriously.
@@leroyjenkins1249wow what an insensitive response to someone who experienced similar things that you did as a child. And saying “don’t have a disabled child” is beyond ignorant to type or say out loud. You aren’t the main character so sit down.
@@legally_ellecee1309 I'm relating, mate. I'm showing that I relate by telling my story. And yeah -I do say that.
I'm not saying that disabled people shouldn't be born or euthanized -but I know from experience that there's a world of pain to grow up if you are disabled. Having a shitty household on top breaks your back. Do you think disabled kids don't pick up they're not wanted? The favoritism? Or that they're glorified as little geniuses -just some pretty jewel on a parent to brag? Way to miss what I actually say for interpreting how you feel
I was shown that I'm no main character all my life. Maybe you sit the fuck down for once, mate.
Reminds me of that one godawful Autism Speaks ad featuring a woman talking about how she used to think about driving off a cliff with her autistic daughter in the car, and the only reason she didn't was because she had an allistic daughter she wanted to be around to take care of. Like, jesus christ.
Kids are also crying on planes bc their ears are popping and it’s painful and confusing (especially if they’re not talking yet). Apparently the best thing you can do for that is let the kid cry bc that makes them swallow, which unpops their ears.
exactly
No. Well there are other things too. Pacifiers, bottles, eating anything that makes them swallow is fine
@@MrEvldreamr - that’s okay when the baby takes a bottle or pacifier or food in the moment. 😂 the alternatives only work when the baby enticed/soothed by them.
Okay, but letting kids cry is not fair to the other passengers. Sorry, but decent people put their babies to sleep while they are on a plane, even with sleeping drugs.
@@07Flash11MRCYou’re out of your mind if you think a parent should drug their kids when you could just put on noise canceling headphones
“Capitalism is the enemy of community” great quote
Sadly wrong quote, but yeah, still good I guess 😂
No, it is a great quote.
@@kyuokuo can you explain to me then, WITHOUT any moral base, how Capitalism is "helping" people today, or even since its inception?
True, capitalism hates community.
@@Jamhael1 Capitalism is simply the right to own and get stuff. All of the stuff people are complaining about around here is not the fault of capitalism.
I've known I don't want kids since I was a teenager, and at almost 30 that still hasn't changed. I still love kids, love my friends' kids and my nephew dearly, but when trying to find likeminded people it's impossible to find childfree groups that don't spiral into the hateful rhetoric of calling kids crotch goblins and parents breeders. I simply don't understand why people have to shit on people who choose things they don't out of some moral superiority.
I want to child free. But I feel like I'm in a way greatful for people who choose to have kids. Because they provide the next generation of humans to continue the economy and support my retirement, keep our society going. It's like those people don't think they need a next gen. I mean, if their goal is to see the extinction of humans, then that would make sense to be so hostile towards parents, but I don't think most of them think that far
It's definitely an insecurity thing. I know that I am not capable at this stage in life to become a parent. I am not mature enough nor patient enough to become a full time caretaker of a child. As we get older that sometimes changes but for some it never does. And that can lead some to have feelings of being "less than". Therefore they push those insecurities and anger outward to feel better. Like "well who wants to have crotch goblins anyway?".
Breeders is pretty hilarious. Hating on the kids is kind of lame
Not only that but I've seen a lot of anti-natalists show a lot of ableism.
Because most parents are arrogant and their children just annoying.
Why don't you open a "childloving aunties and uncles" Group???
I went to a "childfree" wedding where I was the paid sitter. If people couldn't get their own for the ceremony then they could drop their kids off with me and another cousin in a separate room where we had some coloring books, games, toys, and movies. After the main ceremony the kids could attend the dinner but most stayed with us for kiddie foods (which was way cheaper than getting them all the catering) and we had an area for them to lay down for bedtime at 8. The bride and groom were absolutely lovely and it was nice because the parents could check in but have a free night without a sitter and their kids didn't have to sit through a bunch of speeches.
Meh, weddings. I'd rather hang out with you all. Coloring books, games, toys, and movies. No long speeches to sit through.
@@Starry_Night_Sky7455 that was literally how it was 😂 I've worked with kids for a long time and didn't know the couple the best (friend of a friend situation) so it really worked out for everyone.
When I was a kid, I would have massively preferred that to sitting around at a crappy adult’s wedding where I’m not allowed to do anything fun.
This is such an amazing idea, thank you for sharing. I want to have a child free wedding mostly because there’s nothing interesting going on that’s kid centric and it doesn’t make sense to pay so much for catered food that the kids probably won’t want to eat. Not to mention, there are a lot of parents who don’t have any grasp on monitoring their children and I don’t want them running wild in an environment that really isn’t for them. Providing childcare at the wedding is such a smart idea and a good middle ground.
I wish I could be mom material but imagine handling a child 24/7 with no breaks, and imagine handling MULTIPLE children at once? Children are wonderful but every single mom I met is tired and exhausted and honestly who wants that?
IMO people aren't being trained to be parents. You literally have to plan and prepare for it and find good guidance. Cheaper by the Dozen was based on a real efficient loving family. I knew a few dedicated mom-is-my-job people myself. It’s just rare. We have a society where two people need to work to survive nowadays and on top of that, women are given multiple shifts within the household. So much for gender equality. Europe fought for the right to be a parent/childcare way more than in America. Americans have the worst time off benefits of Western nations… Time for family bonding is another issue.
@@jessicah3782 yeah but nobody has a backbone to challenge rich people. So I guess that’s just going to be how it is. Also you have the problem that in America because we aren’t all the same people we do not see ourselves as one. In Europe and stuff they have childcare figured out because they don’t think of it as robbing Peter to pay Paul or some thing but in America you do. Because some groups of people have more children than others. You are always going to have people arguing that their group deserves more help or whatever. It’s a crabs in a bucket scenario because we do not see ourselves as one group.
It's because humans weren't supposed to raise children on their own. Something something capitalism destroying group work and focusing on individuality ruining everything you get the point. It sucks.
It's unfortunate that just a few decades ago multigenerational households were removed in favour of nuclear families. No one used to have to look after kids 24/7, you'd get help from your parents or parents in law, potentially older siblings if you have any or maybe friends. But now it's very individualist, older people are thrown out onto the streets and children are left with overexhausted parents (and as we know that burden often falls on the female parent)
@@ahuman5772 I know and it bothers me that now you have to pay if you want the extra help (babysitters, night nurses, doulas) which the majority cannot afford, I’d have kids if I had a supporting husband and village
I'm Palestinian, and growing up, attending weddings was a central part of my childhood and a chance to meet other children i otherwise would never have met. Parties were considered for everyone, because in the middle east there is no emphasis on getting drunk or consuming alcohol, even if it's a Christian Arabic wedding (yes, there are many Christian Arabs across the Arab world, where do you think Jesus was from??) Parties such as weddings were also a way to learn the customs of your respective community (the food prepared and served, the music played; i learned how to belly-dance from age 5 because i witnessed older girls and women dance at weddings and parties) Because there was always alot of kids of all ages at parties, the older kids organically took on the task of watching out for the younger kids, so there was no need for daycare. This segregation between age groups in the Western countries is truly strange and verging on insane from the Middle Eastern perspective. We often feel very sorry for you.
thank u so much for ur perspective! after reading your comment i began thinking about how the west really favours individualism, and how western media/culture is really discouraging children from being "weird"/"cringe" they're just kids 😭. and also just the dog piling on kids and teenagers on the internet is still crazy to me. on a side note, i also began thinking about my own
ancestors (im a filipino diaspora) values on community, and how sometimes (most times) the west is in favour of the opposite.
again, thank you so much for your perspective, it really got me thinking ❤❤
I’m Colombian and I had the same experience! There is even this “meme” going around in Latino communities about the shared experience of falling asleep in chairs during the parties, or finding a random kid sleeping in your bed during a family reunion. I can’t wait to have all the kids of my family in my wedding.
I think the problem here in the US is that weddings themselves have become so ridiculously expensive and more of a celebration of status.
I had my cheap $5,000 wedding with nearly 100 guests in a park. Kids were encouraged to come and they weren't a nuisance at all! I wish we could've had even more kids come. People still tell me what a great time they had.
That’s my idea of a family party 👍 food, music, solidifying bonds and friendships with family members near and far to your age, and a general natural community policing of behaviour of children etc.
I agree, I'm from Brazil and a wedding is a celebration to have the chances to get together with family who lives far away and you don't see very often, and just have fun with everyone
When I got pregnant with my 1st, I started reading and watching educational books and videos about child development. My oldest is 7 and I have another and one more on the way....I continue to consume educational material about their development because it helps me approach them in an appropriate manner. It's hard work but so satisfying to see them thrive and realize they have no fear of us.
This is wonderful! I'm sure you're a great mommy ♥
when women are pregnant they are educated about how classical music helps babies develop faster but as soon as those 9 months are up the babies end up listening to stupid nursery rhymes that slow down their brain development
@fatimahanwaar306 lol I don't think the classical music has anything to do with brain development. The brain is a learning machine. If kids have their basic biological needs met, i.e. food, safety, shelter, etc. The brain is going to focus on learning. We don't do anything special with our kids...they are loved, cared for, and feel safe at home. My 7 year old is already in a gifted program, and his little brother, who is almost 4, is on track to join him.
@@fatimahanwaar306
Nursery rhymes can be very good.
@@magnarcreed3801 No they can't especially the ones from those toxic so-called "kid-friendly channels" on UA-cam so it's better for children to listen to classical music
Children being (sadly) little more than markers of correct and successful adulthood is heartbreaking. It gives me a headache to think abt how many of us have only been born because our parents wouldn't be able to cope with not fitting into society. While I can understand that for my parents' generation, today I wish more people would reflect on whether they really want kids, or whether they just want to be taken seriously as adults.
Well said
Fantastic comment
I think it's incorrect, no one I know views kids that way. while we were lower I. the family hierarchy we were always viewed as people with feelings
read my comment again because you are referring to something I never said@@Alison2436
That's not why there's social pressure to have children my dude.
Nothing has made me hate parents like working a Christmas event. Parents force kids into situations knowing they’ll be upset and overstimulated, trying to make their photosensitive child sit out of reach with a strange old man and look into spotlights while I take photos on a shutter camera with bright flash in the loudest fucking room you’ve ever experienced. I’ve straight up refused to take some photos because the kid was in clear distress and the *looks* I’d get when I stepped out from behind the camera and asked the kid if they wanted to skip, then told the family to enjoy the rest of the festivities…WOW. This world is actively hostile to kids, and that includes far too many parents.
That is so sweet and considerate of you!
@@OneFootNFront it makes people FURIOUS.
Thank you for doing this!!!
Depending on where you are working all that did was then put the kid through watching their parent scream at the your supervisor, or the kid themself getting screamed at for saying yes.
You think Santa pictures where they have a dedicated photographer are usually cheap?
@@hayleyhellbound9513 oh, I know full-well how expensive they are, it’s why I don’t work the sales desk. But our supervisors are *even more calm* somehow. They put up with less, too.
As someone from one of the countries with the highest birth rates, the idea of children being investments for senior care, labor and money is still very around despite immigrating to the US. Large families are just so heavily ingrained into the culture, half because many people naturally will try to the replicate the family size they grew up in and half because of this fear of loss and missing out. Those “oh pity they only have three children”. Even as a child I looked at smaller families in my community as if they were weird.
Unfortunately this love for having children doesn’t equate to loving children themselves. Being evaluated on my worth, ability to do chores, service others in the community, bring in money, buy a house here and in the homeland, and fund my parents in old age has been put on me since a young age. And parents don’t know how to deal with rebelling or nonconformity bc they’re seeing a broken product losing its functionality. And often that means cutting losses and disowning because if a kid can’t provide for them what is it doing? Why keep a fridge or microwave around if doesn’t work? It’s only logical to them.
I’m not sure if I want kids but if I do I plan on going in with the mindset that they do not owe me anything and they don’t live to serve me. Your kids could die, leave or need your care in old age or any age due to disease or accident.
I look at lange families as uneducated underclass waisting ressources.
How are disabled kids treated in your bubble? I’m curious how they would view a child that never even had a possibility of providing those things. Is there ever even a consideration of that possibility before having kids?
@@koinwonderland4309
Actually independence of disabled individuals is highly encouraged amongst my culture and in most African communities. (Which was very interesting to read in my sociology and social work courses that this is seen as different). If a disabled individual has a chance of working a job, going to college, get married and have kids the parents will work make sure they have what they need to achieve those milestones if to the best of their ability and push them to do so. Infantilization is not culturally common or seen as acceptable, which often leads to people looking at us weirdly when a sibling will roast their disabled sibling or a parent will scold or tell off their disabled child.
If a disabled child is unable to do those things and need life long care at least from what I’ve seen in my, community and homeland is that the parents accept that the child will need care and care for them in their old age. There’s not much resentment due to the fact that they can’t provide for them, different standards for different situations.
I’m from a religious country so 99% of people will just view a child disability as fate or a trial from god that they should accept and take on with the best they can provide. A couple having a disabled child will have a mindset similar to a couple having a boy when they wanted a girl. “Well okay this is what God ordered for us, we accept and move forward”. Parents may see the extra care and cost as burdening sometimes but not see the child as a buden themselves.
I also think this has to do with the fact that most my country does not have a history of Institutions or asylums for disabled people or the mentally ill. Growing up our disabled family members and neighbors lived amongst us and stayed in our homes. Obviously there are cons to this lack of systemized health care but the pro is that disabled people always had a place in the community and care was also community based. It’s interesting because education is lacking (people will use “sick” as a blanket term for many mental disorders) but acceptance is high. People are not scared of the possibility of having disabled children because more likely than not they themselves had a disabled relative or neighbor who was treated normally.
Of course I cannot speak for parents who ONLY have disabled children. And I haven’t met anyone who only has children with disabilities required life long care. I know that families with disabled and non disabled children do expect care from the non disabled children. So parents may resort to having another child to fulfill that goal. And if not possible rely on other family members (siblings, nieces, nephews etc.)
Tldr: In my community disabilities are just accepted as a part of life and the same goes for disabled people. If a disabled child did require life long care the parents would care for them themselves even in old age. Parents don’t look at this child as a loss in future income or senior care because “different standards for different situations”. I think that most parents don’t expect their child to be disabled but no one is scared of having a child who is disabled, but they would want a child who isn’t disabled so they can have someone who is capable of caring for them
@@Dr.Beetlejuice1101. Yes I support state and federally funded safe and effective senior living and nursing facilities. I’m a social work major who has gotten to work at an agency that provided various services for people 65+.
2. I didn’t say the reason I don’t want kids is because “they shouldn’t take care of me”. I didn’t even say children shouldn’t have to take care of their aging parents (in most situations they should in my opinion). I said you shouldn’t have kids for the sole purpose of preordering a nurse or retirement fund. Like it was said in the video wanting to have a child may seem selfish but the act of having said child is selfless.
Please at least quote me right before lecturing me
3. If I just made a comment saying how I’m considering not having kids, and saying that many seniors don’t have kids who can take care of them. It’s pretty safe to assume I am in support of funding nursing homes. Please don’t assume I’m that stupid as to think old people should become homeless if they don’t have children caring for them. Or even more stupid that I think I’ll disappear after “‘living my best life’” obviously I know I will need someone to care for me.
You said a lot of important things but targeting them at me like I initially disagreed is pretty rude
@@hhh1234h sorry you think that was directed at you but it wasn't really directed at you but at the topic you are discussing. You are not the only one to express these feelings and thoughts. Only one sentence uses the word "you" which I was really directed it at the public. Not necessarily assuming you don't know this or anything. Some people don't know anything about what I'm talking about and it never crosses their mind to connect the dots. Sorry, it wasn't really directed at you.
Part of my own resentment towards children was growing up being told I *will* have kids, I *will* like kids, and once I was an adult it just became *when* . I've had family members stop talking to me just because I didn't want to babysit while working and going to school full time. I want to make my own choices and do things for myself. I don't want to be expected to babysit just because I'm the oldest daughter AND oldest girl cousin. Parentification of girls is a major factor. None of the boys, and there are many, in my extended family were ever expected to watch their younger siblings. My brother didn't even get *asked* to watch the twins, but it was somehow expected of me and offensive when I said no.
That said, I don't actually dislike children. Their loud sounds are sensory overload for me, and I already hate flying so screaming kids just add to my own stress. I don't get the biological response I'm "supposed to" from their "cute" faces. But I try to give them and parents grace and I think I would eventually want to adopt some older kids that are more my speed.
The idea that it's an expectation or something I owe to society is not something I can agree with. Which I understand is not what you're saying either, but it was the feeling I got from some of this video.
- Respectfully and from the POV of an open dialogue. I appreciate your video and your perspective, even tho I disagree with much of it. I see where you're coming from, for sure. And I do think we're too hard on parents, especially moms and *especially* single moms in general.
I completely agree. I myself really want to have kids but hate the whole sexist, ageist, "it's an obligation" part of our culture really needs to go. People should be free to not have kids, life without them is still just as beautiful, and some people need to get that through their skulls.
Your comment is so right, this video did a good job at humanising kids. Both childhood and parenthood are also beautiful parts of the human experience, and we should keep in mind that babies are people too and shouldn't be hidden just because they're still in a weird stage of their existence. But also, that some people have horrible experiences contemplating parenthood as a lifepath for so many valid reasons, like yourself, and shouldn't be accused of hyper-individual (selfish) capitalists. And others just can't handle the loud, illogical, immature nature of young people and babies, so they genuinely need their own spaces especially the neurodivergent.
Personally, I really struggle with babies in particular. I don't want my own: my periods are bad enough and everyone tells me that pregnancy is worse, not to mention the associated risks, how much it takes to look after a child that young: I'd need the village, but the village doesn't exist. Not to mention an aversion to bodily fluids: the mere thought of mucis makes me puke sometimes, and well, when i picture babies, the only thing i can really think of is that little face covered in the stuff. Thankfully, I was never parentified as a kid, so I don't really have any of those associated feelings, but there is the whole sex thing and the expectation that I'm supposed to find love and settle down with a romantic partner and maybe spend a few years being sexually active with them. Which i don't want.
But that's not to say I don't think these children deserve better, because they definately do. They deserve spaces where they can be kids without having to spend money, without being forced to suffer through strict rules. They deserve to be able to go out and about safely, especially as they get older.
I have considered, as a possibility for myself when I am older, that I might wanna adopt an older kid, like 4 years old at the youngest (generally, kids are toilet trained by then and know how to use Tissues, so that's my biggest issue gone except for in extenuating circumstances where you can bundle up the bedding and clothes and hose the kid down in a shower. Second issue is sound, and we'll, if uts only one or two kids they aren't gonna be screaming like a room full of 20 10 year olds who just saw a spider.)
But like, I don't wanna have babies forced on me. I wanna be able to go to adult functions and kick back and relax without a toddler running between everyone's legs and getting hurt (and also, the toddler shouldn't have to be forced into an adult function where there is nothing for them to do but run around between everyone's legs.)
TL;DR, I don't hate children or babies, I just wanna be able to interact with them on my terms and I want the world to allow them to exist as children without putting pressure on their parents wallets and time. I'm pretty sure even the cavemen had designated child carers in their groups for when the parents were busy.
Same, you put my thoughts into words. I went through the exact thing, not to mention struggling with ocd c-ptsd and schizophrenia as well as being a closeted aroace queer person. I'm far from having any maternal instincts I get horrible horrible intrusive thoughts about kids especially toddlers and babies so often I avoid being in public completely because I get so stressed about the intrusive thoughts and don't want to seem like a schizoid freakshow in public where mental illness is already so heavily demonized. I'm also chronically ill and disabled, stage 4 deep infiltrating endometriosis and ovarian endometriomas which puts me at higher risk of developing ovarian cancer both the clear cell and endometrioid types if I don't receive treatment , ehlers danlos, lupus, long covid, pulmonary fibrosis, polyneuropathy, encenphalomylitis, dysautonomia, brain damage, family history of type 1 or 2 diabetes and hypertrophic cardiomyopathy. Things that indicate I really shouldn't have children if I don't want to die an early death, but people just do not seem to understand or accept it they keep insisting and gaslighting me and it's a problematic barrier keeping me from seeking help for my endometriosis. Grandparents told me I can't be sure I don't want to be married or have kids you'll understand when you get older, relatives get pushy when I admit I don't date or want kids, I get scapegoated and demonized for my mental illness which I can't help really. I also experienced a lot of abuse in my childhood, something I'd never want any child to ever go through. I know I'd be a horrible parent if I didn't die from it outright, I feel like people ignore infanticide caused by desperation and perinatal suicidality and deny it's existence. I know I'd be that parent who drowned their infant in the bathtub after a psychotic break because I didn't want this life, nobody deserves to be on the receiving end of that. I wish people had the same amount of self awareness and didn't coerce people who don't want kids into having them and being miserable.
I dislike small children but I would never be openly mean to one. It's not their fault they're annoying. I have never met a single childfree person that would ever do that. We just avoid them whenever possible, which is absolutely what's best for both of us. I like dogs, but I get that they can be loud and unpredictable and I would never begrudge someone for not wanting to be around them.
The first part! People just always expect the women in their live to take care of their children and not the men. Women are just tired
*I LIVE IN BULGARIA NOW* kids are still raised by the entire community here - you go shopping you leave your kids with the old people of the village or the apartment block.
Kids here are GREAT, the parents get as many breaks from them as they need. Also, most families can survive on one salary with 2 kids, which helps a LOT. If the parents are "bad parents" well it does not matter as they have 20 "parents" bringing the kids up in the form of the community. What I have learned since living here is being a parent is TOO BIG a job for 2 people.
Exactly. Child rearing is communal.
My kids do not have an i pad. My oldest is 6. We have one television in the family room. My mom said they will be behind their peers but i think their capacity for imagination, emotional regulation and long attention span will put them lightyears ahead of their peers. Fingers crossed 😂
I had my first cell phone when i was like 13 or 14 (and at the time i diden't even really want to have that) if i ever have a kid he/she will never have a cellphone untill he is at least 13 and it is not going to be an iphone.
@@jeremybeau8334nah I mean raise your kids how you want, but I will say as someone who also got their first phone (iPhone) at 13, as long as you teach your kid there’s exciting things in life not involving it, you should be fine. That’s what my parents did for me. And while I get not wanting a screenager, being able to do Group FaceTime’s and chats and download and laugh about funny apps w my friends were some of the best memories I have.
you couldn't be more right!!! Giving screen for kids is the worst thing for their brain and emocional development
@@aitneznot necessarily? I think yhe issue is parents using screens as the only source of stimulation for children and using them at too early an age. It's good for children to have this window to the outside world, but if it's all they have from a young age you're going to stifle their development.
@@somedragonbastard well, I can understand your point; but for me being a kid and having access to screens since the age of 3 (first computer) and a tablet at the age of 6 was the worst thing for my development. I'm still addicted to screen and that's really fucked up
People don't want or hate kids because of their loud and annoying characteristics. We know that for millenia. But as a woman who can barely afford to live for myself and I will NEVER have a good life because of late stage capitalism; I will never have children. I deserve to be happy. The lack of a village will guarantee that as soon as I have a child, I will be overworked, overwhelmed, and abandoned by society and (high statistically) my male partner. Not only do I have to take the burden of domestic labor but I have to keep also having a full time job and have it never cover any of my expenses. No thank you.
Well, if you’re worried about your partner not being faithful to you and your child you have a fucked up meter and probably shouldn’t have kids. I am 2 months from giving birth and I know the economy is failing. If you look at life so sad that’s why you’re not able to enjoy it. Because you’re already too far into capitalism that they convinced you because you can’t afford Nike, or Adidas shoes. Even expensive toys and frivolous items like white noise machines for babies, or strollers you can convert that you shouldn’t have kids if you can’t afford them. Back in the day you wouldn’t exist if your mommy had that same mindset… Just saying. We push through as mothers and this is my first ever child and I’m 25. I’m going to provide as much love as I can and that’s really all a child needs is supportive parents that are emotionally available and tentative to their children. I hope one day you find someone you trust to not give up on you too so you can have a child and if you don’t and your happier that way way to go! I just want everyone to stop looking at their lives like money is the end all be all. Back in the 70’s they didn’t have all this shit we have now. No cellphones, none of that shit
@@stopminormutilationpeople arent worried about not having Adidas lol they cant afford healthcare or food
Capitalists: create an economic system where the only way to win is not to play.
The same capitalists: totally shocked when people decide not to play by not having kids.
I actually was very quiet and peaceful kid. I HIGHLY doubt I hate kids because I was loud and annoying. Again. I was never annoying or loud. Please reframe from imposing your false logic onto others. Just because you were loud obnoxious and stoopid, the rest of us weren't like that. In fact, my mom was scared of me because of how quiet I was as a kid. I spent most of my time reading and drawing. I hate kids because they are annoying and loud! I was never like that! In fact, I hated the other kids when I was a kid, because again, I was the quiet and reclusive type to enjoy being alone reading and drawing. I would've been an excellent nun doing calligraphy manuscripts.
@@LadyCoyKoi someone is deeply triggered. Just because you were a good kid doesn't mean 80% of them aren't. You can be a nun now. Get off the internet and go pray if that's what you want.
When I was a toddler I had random outbursts in public, and later we learned I was having an allergic reaction to certain foods, making me itchy, hot, and irritable. At such a young age I couldn't articulate what was wrong... My point is, if you see a child freaking out in public, you really have no idea why and should abstain from judgement.
If I see a child freaking out in public, I don't care why. I just know that it's the caretaker's duty to see that their child does not disturb me.
@@MK-hh1vo When you step out into the public world you have to accept that you lose control over what you can hear and/or see. I also hate hearing children cry, sirens, construction, and barking dogs, but you know what I did? I got noise-cancelling headphones. Anticipate your own needs and you will be a happier person. A toddler doesn't have the ability to say “I’m having an allergic reaction to certain foods, therefore I need to go to the doctor.” it can take awhile to find the heart of the issue, so extend some grace to the people around you.
@@MK-hh1vo while I absolutely agree parents should be responsible and attentive to their children and make efforts to avert any public disruptions by their children for the sake of others, children are still autonomous human beings that parents cannot magically control the emotional responses of, neurodivergent children will be especially reactive and even harder to placate when stressed out.
A consequence of being out in public places is encountering those you cohabitate the world with, as a neurodivergent adult I always have noise cancelling headphones and a pair of noise blocking ear plugs in my bag in case I encounter a screaming child or other loud noises that could become unbearable to listen to.
Ultimately we aren’t more entitled to use public or shared spaces than anyone else, nor can we control the behaviour of others, so anyone with high sensitivity to certain stimuli needs to be proactive in accomodating their own needs, rather than resenting others for not unanimously behaving in ways that prioritise your experience/convenience over their own.
I just remove myself from the scene. Too many push their kids past their limits.
@@ouri_3882 maybe those parents should extend some grace to the people around them.
It’s reasonable to expect parents that can’t find childcare to not attend a child-free wedding, but completely unreasonable to expect to pay for childcare as well when weddings are already so expensive
ya, they should just expect the people not to come
There are alternatives. Pay a babysitter or two for a fraction of the cost, and then have the parents pay the majority of the tab. That way, everyone wins. This is only a solution for small weddings, but it's a solution.
I validate my daughters feelings while explaining being upset doesn’t validate saying or doing anything you want in that moment. You can be angry or sad but you can’t lash out at people just because you’re angry. I think alot of us “gentle parents” miss that whole point. They never course correct adequate and healthier ways of expressing displeasure. Little Timmy begins fucking up the house and it’s oh he’s just expressing his anger. No, he’s being destructive and inconsiderate of others. My sole role as a parent is to not raise assholes and unleash them onto the world! But because of my openness towards my daughters they tell me everything and view me as their bestfriend and i’m honored by that.
Hello. As usual, you have brought up a lot of interest facts and opinions on this topic. However, I believe children have always been mistreated and viewed for what values they can contribute to their families. The main difference now is the individualism and lack of a village when raising children. I was born in 1965, according to your graphic. I am a Gen X, and all the adults would say, "Children should be seen not heard." Also, the "village" would also say the same things people say about children that is said today. The few differences were instead of requesting for child free flights, they would say parents should stay home until their kids are old enough to travel quietly. Basically, the complaints about children and how they are seen in my opinion have not changed. Just the circumstances.
Yes that really bothered me about this video. Implying some mythical halcyon days when children were respected. That NEVER existed. Children are better off now than ever in the past. We still have along way to go to make this world an actual good place to live however…
Also Gen X here and I fully agree with you. Our generation is the one where they just stopped beating kids in school, at least in my country. And yes, children should be seen not heard. But preferably not seen either because parents would send us outside and didn't care what we were up to. And simultaneously we would amount to nothing because we were raised by tv.
@@valasafantastic1055 yeah I remember my dad saying "children should be seen and not heard" in the 80s-90s. He said he was told that as a kid and he was born in 1960. If anything people have more sympathy nowadays than they did before, its just that the people who don't like children are saying they'd like to be able to seperate themselves instead of telling their parents to abuse their children until they shutup.
@@Zectifin I was raised in 2000's-2010's and my dad always said children and animals don't have a say, so yeah I would say respect for kids is still a pretty new phenomenon and it has never been better. Especially because some of the child free spaces are meant to be so to protect children and many people in the movement want to raise awareness of potential parents to not be like the stereotypical not caring about their kid parent, because that's what it comes down to people who don't care about their kids the way they deserve being so common bcs of the it's a typical life stage stigma.
yup
Many years ago a friend asked me if I saw myself having a family and at the time I said yes, I was around 20 or so. He asked me, “why would you like to have children?” I gave some really basic answers and presented imaginary scenarios of how life would be with that child.
After a couple days I started to really think about it, and I felt I could not really give a selfless answer for why I would like to look after a little person, raise them, teach, help and watch them become their own big person.
I came to the conclusion that the reasons I had were only centered around me and my own interests, rather than the genuine desire to take care of another life and help them to become their own person.
That’s when I decided I would not have children, as I don’t feel I would be doing it “for the right reasons”, at least not reasons that I could defend to myself.
If anyone else decides to have children and can justify to themselves having them, good for them, but for me personally kids are no longer part of the plan.
And it’s not like I dislike children, I find them funny and sweet, and I do enjoy spending time with my nephews, nieces or friend’s children. In my twenties I was very involved in raising my cousin and agreed to be his god-father. I’m ok helping others raise children and look after the children in my community, but I do not see myself having one of my own.
I can come up with many different reasons not to, which to me signals that I don’t really want them. If it was something I truly desired I would be just as capable of coming up with reasons to have them as I am of coming up with reasons not to.
On the other hand, while I agree children have the right to take up space and be in public, I also believe adults can and should have their own spaces. While child free flights are ridiculous, adults are gonna adult, and children are gonna children, and a lot of parents feel entitled to having their children in places or events directed at adults.
This.🎉🎉🎉😅
You provided a very well-rounded answer. You’ve definitely given this a lot of considerable thought, good for you. 👍🏾
I think there are things that we anticipate, but I don’t think there’s any harm in idealizing the life that we want to have when we participate in a certain thing. What matters is how we’re able to curb our expectations when those expectations are subverted.
The amount of times I've heard people say they want/had kids because they want "a mini me" is baffling to me. These are the same people who say not having children is selfish. Make it make sense lol
I work with children in daycare and honestly? I have major sensory issues when it comes to noise/overstimulation. However, I've done my best to make sure my discomfort/outnbursts are never done towards/in the presence of the children. Because they're just kids, they just got here and they are still working on being -alive- let alone understanding the complexities of life like "spoons" or overstimulation. I excuse myself or ask from coworkers and management for help with my sensory troubles. I've put my foot down that toddler aged children I can't work with for 8 hours a day at a 1:8 adult/child ratio. Children aren't doing stuff outright maliciously but honestly don't -know-. 5 year olds aren't saying nasty things to their friends because they -want- to hurt others but because they think for whatever reason that "saying nasty things makes people listen/understand me/ that's how I go through this conversation. And I feel like a disconnect has happened because people just think kids should "shut off" or be mini-adults like all the tiktok viral children are. Some children are very articulate for their age but the majority are small and just testing every boundary because they don't know the limit to stuff yet.
I had someone ask me point-blank "should we go back to bullying? Kids are too weird now" and I said how a majority of "weird" children are those with disabilities or even if they don't have autism or a disability they are just expressing themselves and probably feel safe to be themselves around you. Children will act like cats/dogs and pretend to be dinosaurs and yeah maybe it's "cringe" but just because a kid is acting...like a kid in a way that's not "marketable" to most people, they deserve to exist in society.
sorry for rambling in the comments I just get really impassioned by this stuff both from being a child who was labeled as "annoying" and also working with children now I just wish people would realize you can not want kids/not like them but that doesn't mean you need to make it the -child's- problem/punish them for simply existing.
no 100% dude, you very right.
as a younger gen Z I lived through the "gen Z cringeeee" and the immense ableism and queerphobia of the early internet.
(does no one remember not even 5 years ago when trans and queer UA-camrs got runoff the web???)
kids are gonna be super weird, people are gonna be super weird, but bullying or silencing how they feel is awful.
"saying nasty things makes people listen/understand me/ that's how I go through this conversation"
oh genuinely, I have been in alot of spaces where younger kids are around more often. and they just wholeheartedly don't understand nasty things are nasty because maybe the parents say it, or they picked it up somewhere and the parents haven't told them off, or they just don't know yet that these things are mean and awful.
I've had to explain those things to kids before, and I understand your struggle. hell I'm not EVEN IN childcare! I'm just a random internet guy who doesn't want the kids to be spewing awful things if I can help it!
I've taught kids internet safety, I've talked to mentally ill kids about their problems, I've helped out tons of people.
but still I am not magic nor you are, we do the best we can.
and it's just hard, but your students will remember what you did for them and that you cared enough to help them.
don't be disheartened, sometimes people hide their troubles, sometimes people hide their joys.
your doing the good work and keep it up! may life be kind on ya!
-pop
OH MY GOD SERIOUSLY LIKE, whenever people advocate or suggest to bring back bullying I go into a rage state. Bullying is not okay and the reasons for it usually stem from other forms of bigotry and the fact that people think it’s a good thing appalls me.
Why would you work with children when you have sensory issues
beautifully said.
@@sp33dweed77 Because I genuinely enjoy working with infants. Older ages are harder for me due to ratio amounts, but I do genuinely enjoy seeing children experience the world and my own history/trauma makes me determinded to make sure other children have a better childhood than my own.
The idea that children "should be seen and not heard" is so pervasive, at least in US culture. Toni Morrison addreses it in The Bluest Eye, really trying to articculate how that warps a child's sense of self. In Brain-Body Parenting by Dr. Delahooke, she explains how adults revere obedience and invisibility in childhood more than anything else. Even if that obedience is really a sign of emotional imbalance. I connected these ideas to my own personal upbringing, but never to the greater picture of where we as adults force children to stand in society. The way they're viewed as property, subhuman and continually exploited for profit across the globe.
I'm really glad that nowadays people are pushing for "gentle parenting", but really just to view children with compassion and empathhy. We're breaking cycles and therefor taking a critical look at the systems that create them. Hopefully, this new perspectie that younfer generations are taking toward children will only develop to implement political change for future generations.
I definitely agree the younger generations have a different view and look at society than we did they have like an open mind and actually a spiritual take on it have you noticed.?
@@ROCKTRESSARISING I I'm really happy for that shift, I can definitely feel the spiritual aspect like you mentioned. Although I don't think I've heard anyone talk about it before
We're in a place now where talking about cycles of trauma and being thechange is accepted (at least amongst our peers)
Well said!
I'm so glad I took a high school elective where The Bluest Eye was required. I'm white and don't think I would've gotten the perspective it offers had I not read it.
@@supervivo7069 I read it my freshman year of college, and while I tried to be attentive to the nuances, I still didn't really "get it". But haven't it as a background I really think it guided my education on colonization and african american history. I'm re-reading it now after having built up my education some more and it really leaves me speechless, such an incredible book
Even compared to me growing up, I feel like things are worse, not better. At least my sisters and I could go outside and play until sundown safely, or we could think without short form media constantly telling us what to think/what the arguments are. The system is a scam; I was told to go to college to succeed, to do this and that, but I did as I was told (and even got a Master's degree) and make no more than a store cashier... So I will definitely emphasize options to my son, not putting all of his eggs in one basket. I have exactly one child since the system won't allow us to afford more or to have the proper time or attention for more. Both parents have to work; I've cut my hours so I would have time to spend with my son, but we can't afford to raise two on this reduced income. It's all money money money in capitalism. Also, yeah home prices are stupid, we're still renting an apartment but working on saving for a house. We want to buy a 2/1 for our little family of 3, and it won't be our starter home; it will be our only home. I turn 35 this month.
Your story sounds a lot like mine. I grew up running around the neighborhood with other children. I practically have to beg parents for playdates for my child today. No one ever plays outside, and playdates often involve going to a park or other public place, which means I don't get anything else done while my child plays. It's exhausting having to be responsible for every second of my child's day because people don't believe in or support free-range parenting anymore. I also got a degree, but within 3 years of starting my career, my salary would not cover the cost of a one-bedroom apartment in the city where I lived. I finally had to quit my job and stay home when my neurodivergent child started having extreme meltdowns that were triggered by school that were not being resolved with other interventions. I now work part-time from home at a job that still requires a degree, but pays less than what some of my former high school students made working in fast food. My husband was able to buy a house, but it's smaller than most apartments and is just generally not a very nice house to live in. I don't foresee us moving into anything bigger, especially if my child keeps having such extreme emotional reactions to going to school that I can't work (we are currently homeschooling, which is not ideal for a lot of reasons). My mental health is terrible, and raising a kid is just not something I have enjoyed doing, even though I do love my kid. Having more children is absolutely out of the question. I turn 40 this year, and I've basically given up on the American Dream. Ideally, I'd like to just leave the country altogether and live elsewhere. I just don't see it improving in my or my child's lifetime. I want to live in a place where at least my child can MAYBE have some opportunities that actually pay off, even if I never benefit from it. I also want to live in a more empathetic culture. Hyper-indivdualism really isn't working for me (or anyone really).
Children are the last humans on earth that aren't recognized as being worthy of protection from discrimination. It's so sad. Yet all of us were children, every single one of us. Thank you for speaking up for children. They are innocent, and all of us are responsible for taking care of children. ALL OF US.
💯
Right that's what's crazy to me: we were all children once. These kids that some people don't want around will become adults. What kind of adults will they become if their world tells them they are annoying just for existing?
No, those of us who have chosen not to have anything to do with children are not responsible for taking care of children. The best we can do is no harm to children. Other than that, what do you want?
@@MK-hh1vo you don't get to decide children and their exploitation aren't your problem and in the next breath say you haven't harmed them.
@@MK-hh1vo I agree with you. I will absolutely do my best to not harm children in any capacity, but it’s not my responsibility to take care of them when most people have made it abundantly clear that “nobody owes you anything”.
So human beings as a collective are supposed to take care of children but elderly people are told to fuck off and die and not be a burden?
My ONLY thing I will agree on with the anti-kid thing is when you’re in a public setting designed for adults, and the parents let their kids behave the same as in a park.
I have NO issue with kids going to a nice restaurant or museum, but what I’m talking about is when you’re in a nice restaurant and people are all talking quietly and suddenly a child is running around, screaming, and/or listening to loud music on phones or iPads. Kids mature at different speeds and develop differently. If your kiddo isn’t able to sit quietly through a meal or a movie, then they aren’t ready and that’s ok! Take them out when they are ready!
I have NO issue with kiddos using technology either, but it’s the parents who instantly pull out technology instead of parenting. It’s not fair TO THE KID to be ignored by their adults!!!
I have some “iPad kid” cousins and I tell you what all that annoying behavior people hate? Vanishes the second your interact with them and play with them and treat them like humans instead of just annoying things in the environment around you. Like when my cousins have control of their kids in public its such a disaster. They ignore them and try and shut them up. When I am the adult for the same kids? They’re perfectly behaved and happy to be respectful.
More and more Adults Only places are opening up, Themen parks start having childfree days. Airlines have childfree flights.
It becomes more easy to avoid parents and their Minimes.
And I am very happy about that.
Let the parents do whatever they want, but far away from me.
Why on earth should I Interaktion with somebody else's children??? I am sure the parents know how to call down their Minimes and just choose not to.
So why should I do their work???
@@CordeliaWagner1999 they're literally not telling you to parent other people's children, they're just saying parents and other adults treating kids as nuisances to be shushed doesn't lead to less annoying behavior from those kids, treating them with respect especially if you're a close adult to them (parent or family member) does.
I agree. Whenever I say I’m getting annoyed by a kid in a public space, I’m really just annoyed with the parents lack of boundaries or understanding towards their kids.
@@CordeliaWagner1999 you sound like child yourself
This video made me reevaluate my thoughts on children and my place in my neighborhood. I now have a strong desire to participate more and show empathy to the screaming children I hear on occasion. Cheyenne, this may be your best video yet.
you'll be the cool neighbour they will always remember and even impact their choices and behaviour. your participation is monumental
It takes a healthy village to raise healthy kids. As a mom of 2 little girls with very little support, I wish there were more wonderful people my children could interact with on a daily. I have lots of mom friends, but everyone is so busy because again..very little support these days and we are always left to do everything ourselves that we run into exhaustion. Plus, no one really let's their kids play outside alone anymore.
Thank you!! The first time I brought my toddler on a plane, we had to wait forever to get off and I’ll never forget the single young man that tried entertaining her and kept picking up the toy she dropped. I thought for sure he was going to be annoyed, it was such a nice surprise.
@@hogblubbersthat is so sweet
@@janaekelisYes! Before I had a kid of my own this "annoying"little boy would come to stay with his father for the summer and whenever he saw me outside he would pester me. I always dreaded it, but one day I was like "you were that latchkey kid forced to spend summers with your dad who didn't want to be around you, no one was there for you but you can be there for him." I started teaching him to do chores with me, I played video games with him, and I taught him how to back cookies. One day when some kids picked on him he knocked on my door crying. I told him that if he ever needed someone to talk to that I would be there for him, and I talked to his dad about what happened to him. I helped him and it was healing for me.
Thank you so much for validating some of my feelings on the “kids can’t read” discourse. I really dislike how so much of the blame is being shifted to either the children or the parents and not onto the politicians and rich people who create, fund, benefit from, and take advantage of the system that created all these problems in the first place. people’s anger is so often misdirected. it can be hard to get them to see the reality of who is responsible clearly enough to move them to participate in community organized events or mutual aid.
I’m going to give my two cents about the ‘it takes a whole village to raise a child’ as a future educator. Sometimes parents also DON’T want to cooperate with the school too when their kids misbehave, and it takes a heavy toll on the teachers!.
Misdirection also comes from the lens of medias.
Medias owned by... Those billionaires guilty for the situation.
So it s no wonder they try to shift the blame elsewhere, it s what they are paid to do.
As a woman I've been constantly told that it's in my nature to love and want children, so I personally find it liberating to say actually no, I don't like kids that much, it's actually NOT mandatory that I like them and I prefer not to be around them.
(I don't agree with being rude to kids or their parents in public, but I think it's perfectly fine to have a personal preference to not be around them and childfree spaces are fine in some contexts).
I don't know if i ever want children, I find them pretty annoying most of the time, but I have noticed this growing hostility towards children which is gross. people need to understand they're still young and are not capable of making great decisions, having consideration, or managing their emotions. the internet/tech is making it worse, and parents need to be more involved in limiting what they watch and teaching them consequences.
We're definitely regressing in that aspect to the point where i'm not surprised child labor making a comeback. its really sad to see. Its like folks have forgotten that once upon a time they were a child too. its incredibly selfish and inconsiderate. How people say you can tell a lot about a person by how they treat and speak of service workers, i think that also applies to children all the same.
@K.C-2049 that is my problem too... the parents.. most of the bad behavior comes down to parenting and i say this as somebody who worked with kids before.
@@hjblacdes61Honestly is it just me, or ever since Roe got overturned we've been regressing as a society? Like child labor has been making a comeback, the rise of the trad wife, and not to mention that mainstream feminism discussion pretty much shifted from talking about women's issues to LET WOMEN BE SUBMISSIVE!
covid broke people's brains imo@@kittykittybangbang9367
I don't know how to say this in a softer, less brutal way but its people LIKE YOU who are precisely the reason for the hostility!!! What does it mean you find them annoying? Have you thought of it?? It means you have feelings of anger and frustration at repetitive loud noises that children create for example, right? Ok... lets follow this logic. Does that mean that people that "love" children find loud screeching and repetitive noises pleasant???
Recently my cousin's kid (about 4 years old) threw many tantrums when she visited for the holidays, and while some of the adults did the usual reminiscing on when they spanked or were spanked as kids themselves, I have to give my mom credit where credit's due. She acknowledged that we could've done a little better since the child was pretty much the only one surrounded by adults and for COVID reasons she doesn't know all of us as well as she would've under ordinary circumstances. She's always been a big advocate for reading a lot to kids to help them develop language and learn how to express themselves and to this day I love to read even with the challenges of neurodivergence. Ultimately the lack of village to me is definitely one of the biggest things that contributes to what we consider the problem with children existing in public and it sucks thinking about all the ways my cousin's kid will have a different childhood since none of my other cousin's really want kids and we don't always have the time to hang out with her.
I’m so relieved to see this being discussed. I understand not wanting kids but the outright hatred & dehumanization of them is disturbing. They’re just trying to get by in a world they didn’t ask to be a part of & everywhere they turn, there’s an adult waiting to kick them down. Seems like a lot of us forgot what it felt like to be a “crotch goblin” vulnerable & at the mercy of everyone else.
i dont think these childree people are making tiktoks for your 7 year old ipad child to watch. they're making them for other adults to watch. they arent outright bullying children, just complaining about them.. dont let your kids on a platform if you dont want them exposed to something. dont expect the internet to cater to you.
@@isabelamogosanu7777 ok and adults are the ones complaining about the child free tiktoks because some are harmful and endorse disdain of kids, and that negative sentiment can spillover to irl interactions with kids bc like it or not they are inescapable no matter where you go. The op never even said they have kids, I don't have kids and don't plan on it either, you don't have to have a kid to empathize with them.
@@anny8720 yeah but i don't see anything hateful from the tiktok examples that were provided so how can you call that harmful?
It’s like a fun nihilistic trend right now. If you say “children are horrible I hope they die” it’s seen as funny or you’re so smart and cool. If I say “Oh look how cute or sweet my niece is” then it’s like I become lame or make everything awkward because I don’t have anger or hatred. Idk how to explain it exactly but as an older Gen Z it’s like part of the culture.
Especially queer culture there have been many times because I am Bi, want children, and like being around them I’m seen as less queer and being a “breeder”. Those people (usually younger people) are completely ignoring the fight queer people have fought to be able to adopt and have their own children.
@@RaspBerryPies I think the lgbtq culture is just turning discriminatory then.. Can't blame all of gen Z for that one.
It's a shame that the creshes and playgrounds that used to be part of almost all workplaces have disappeared. They were a lot cheaper option, and made employers more empathetic to workers needs
Or just having items for children!
When I was a young girl banks and other places had a small toy or two you could play with
THANK YOU FOR THIS. I'm a queer mother, and I constantly get left out of queer conversations about the rights and need to hear children (including and especially queer children) because every point I make is "well you're just trying to force people to have kids", when that's not the case. Every time I've mentioned that children are the most vulnerable and disenfranchised demographic, it's met with "nu uh! They cry when they don't get what they want," or "don't compare children to ACTUALLY vulnerable groups," and it's so incredibly frustrating because children can be anything, act like anything, be anyone; they're unique individuals just like adults. They deserve to be included in things. They deserve to experience the world safely. They deserve not to feel insulted and belittled by adults around them. You don't get carte blanche to hate an entire demographic of people for factors out of their control. That's prejudice. I understand not wanting children. Children should be wanted and loved. Children are wonderful. They're so creative, imaginative, optimistic, and curious. My kiddo teaches me new ways to approach things all the time and they're only in kindergarten.
I agree completely! Not wanting kids is fine, but that shouldn't allow people to hate them for being different and annoying.
i agree with you. they are, indeed, the most vulnarable group, because they are kids! they dont comprehend the world, they are growing, developmenting. they need help, they need someone to guide them. why people find that too hard to understand?
It's also ridiculous how many feminists (self proclaimed) absolutely hate mothers, there's so much hate targeting mothers in the world, disadvantages and discrimination in the workforce and etc, yet I feel that if we mention those things people just say "oh you just want to force people to have kids", "they made the choice to have kids so we have nothing to do with that", it's just sad, I feel like even though I'm also a feminist I have no place in feminist discussions because I have kids
Omg! I am emby and also want children! I agree with so much you've said👍
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I think it’s really important to recognize that most folks who feel active disdain towards kids have really fucked up relationships to their own childhoods. They were treated like a burden, a nuisance, a waste of space. And all of that internalized hatred of their own childhood self gets projected onto other children.
I was a queer neurodivergent kid whose peculiarities were NOT appreciated by those around me. I grew up depressed, angry, and resentful. As I got older, got therapy, and learned how to talk to the neurotypical world, I started to actually like myself, and I HATED my childhood self. I also hated kids and was sure I’d never have them.
After some inner work and some healing, I did end up having kids. As I came to have compassion for my childhood self, I developed deep compassion for all the kids around me, and started to see just how awful the adult world often is to them. I love and cherish my two kids. I also work as a therapist now, and have seen how impactful inner child/reparenting work can be for healing the wounds caused by growing up in a world that doesn’t value you for who you are.
All that to say, I want to encourage folks to have compassion for the folks who hate kids. It makes me incredibly sad to see it, but I also get it, because I was one of those people. I hope we can all get the kind of support and healing we need to really value and appreciate all of the humans we share this world with, including children. I think, as we’re starting to challenge oppressive systems and dismantle capitalism, we can really build that kind of support.
Thanks for this. I do want to sympathize with the child free folk as the pressure to get married and have kids can be overwhelming. However, a hatred of kids isn't the answer. If people don't want children, please, by all means, don't have them. But I really feel that the increase in child free people has left us parents holding the bag (I have a very supportive husband btw). Nothing in terms of village or childcare or third spaces is going to improve for us, just more childfree people. I also was described as a very moody child, which I now have found out is a persistent anxiety and depression and undiagnosed ADHD (I thought I was autistic). My son is very likely on the spectrum so I'm trying to reach him where he is and not worry that he isn't doing what other kids do, and give him all the help he needs and look after our new baby. My husband and I are both in therapy doing as much work as we can.
Even if you had the therapy to dismantle the active disdain, ive yet to find anything that relieves the nervous system disregulation that comes with loud children. When being loud as a child was actively dangerous, experiancing loud children as an adult feels like an emergency.
@@AnxietyRaptor Oh for sure! That's baked into our nervous systems, and it's there to motivate us to actually meet children's needs, which is a good thing. If we can make peace with the fact that we're dysregulated, it's easier for us to approach the child, and the parent(s), with compassion.
For me, some of how I did this was coming to my own reasons for being OK with it. Thinking about crying children on airplanes, I originally thought, "I shouldn't have to deal with this dysregulation." But how would that happen? The child's not capable of not crying. So in my mind, the only alternative is that kids aren't allowed to fly on planes. I personally want to live in a world where children are able to travel and visit loved ones who don't live within walking/driving/train distance, and I accept that sometimes the discomfort of hearing a crying child will be part of living in that world. I also want that to be as pleasant as I can for everyone involved.
If I can share a kind word, or even a compassionate glance, with the parent to let them know that I want to support them, not judge them for the fact that their child's crying, I can help relieve some of that stress that's probably making the parent's (and by extension, the child's) dysregulation worse. I realize that my ability to do this comes from a place of privilege on some level, and that there are other folks who have a harder time managing the "a child is crying" dysregulation. But across the board, I think finding your own reasons to allow that discomfort to be a part of your world is important.
I agree most people like this had horrible childhood. However I have compassion for them until they actually hurt a kid.
If they start making their cousins or neighbors kids feel unwanted and hated with snarky comments, actions, or yelling then my empathy goes away. It’s a cycle of abuse and thankfully they don’t have their own kids to abuse but they’re still hurting children and I don’t think that’s okay no matter your past.
I agree that we should help these people grow but I think they when it comes down to it I will automatically care more about the innocent child who is being hurt than the person who is hurting them who had a horrible childhood.
So I guess it just comes down to if they just have these toxic ideas or if they actually carry them out. That’s not to say someone who has hurt children cannot change for the better but for me personally I will not have sympathy for them.
@@vaporeonice3146 yeah, I'm childfree and I think it should be on parents to calm down their children or figure out why they are upset instead of just "letting them cry themself out", but I also have sympathy for the kids and hate how many childfree communities descend into anti natalism and child hate.
Crying kids on planes are annoying, but I used to be a kid who flew on planes a lot because my dad works for an airline so we were constantly flying places for free. I get crazy motion sick when any kind of elevation change happens, going up and down hills makes me sick but a boat is fine, planes are the worst. I used to get so sick everytime we went on some vacation. I threw up into barf bags I threw up on the jet bridge as everyone was getting off the plane once and everyone had to walk around it. I'm sure the adults around me were annoyed by me, but I also have sympathy for the kids because I know how miserable I was as a kid on a plane, probably more miserable that most of them. Which is alway why I blamed my parents. We didn't need to take those flights. My parents wanted to go on lots of vacations every year and instead of finding something that was in driving range we always had to go on a flight and I just had to deal with being sick the rest of the day.
I think we need to have more empathy across the board not just for children but for people struggling while living on the streets and just in general really apathy helps nothing and no one except maybe yourself Empathy is beneficial all around!
That has been said 100 years ago.
People nod and agree, turn around and continue to be selfish.
The people who do the most change are the childfree women.
@@CordeliaWagner1999 nice comment. What you said is 💯 right. Women has the power now to change the system by not breeding.
@@CordeliaWagner1999 are you sure? there are a lot of childfree spaces thar don't mince words about how much they despise 'crotch goblins' and 'breeders'.
@@CordeliaWagner1999yeah, because everyone needs a purpose in life so instead of family they tend towards changing public policy. Can be good or bad depending on the cause they choose. Hedonistic consumerism can only satiate someone for so long until they require a higher purpose whatever that is
When I think "it takes a village", I remember a friend of ours had a baby and their toddler at a Christmas light event we went to. When the baby got upset, the parents ran off to take care of her while I and the other 5 adults in the group collectively went to the kid area and took care of the toddler. One of those friends is not interested in having her own children at all, but she is also the first to volunteer to "borrow" the kids to give her friends a break. We need more people like that.
I'm going to go out on a limb and assume that the parent friends are genuinely good friends to you guys. A lot of parents want the village but think it means they get free childcare without ever reciprocating. It becomes every childfree / non-parent giving while the parents get to take, take, take.
My friends, and my friends' friends are all not parents. I think it dramatically changes the expectations that are laid out, which causes more non-parents to flock together. We can avoid being seen as free babysitters and dealing with being told it's our job. We can relax without dealing with parent friends dumping their kids on us so they can ignore them. We avoid being yelled at for telling misbehaving kids not to break things.
Thus, the village dissipates because it disproportionately benefits the parents in most cases.
I grew up with several honorary aunties and uncles who would watch us for a weekend, or take us shopping for school clothes, or out for milkshakes on our birthdays, and it’s something I’m very grateful for. Most of my parents’ friends never had kids, and most of them didn’t babysit us. But having a few that did was super great!
Most parents don't live in villages though.
@@nursebee-vomit5058 I think this stigma of selfish parents taking advantage of childless people who are willing to help is a HUGE part of the problem. It's one more way that parents are judged and made to feel guilty when they may not be asking for help as often, even if they desperately need it. This mindset also helps to feed into the notion that anyone in our community is only good for anything if we get something out of interacting with them. It further entrenches selfishness and perpetuates an intolerance of children and parents alike, and just generally makes people more apathetic. Both parents and children benefit when parents can take a break, and childless people can benefit as well by learning to be more understanding and empathetic. They can also learn to set healthy boundaries if they feel that their friends and family with children are asking too much of them or being unreasonable, which is a healthy life skill.
@@fairywingsonrosesOR, you can just not expect your friends to watch your kids. If they wanted them they would have them. Point blank.
We need to do something about tbe expectation that parents not get enough sleep. Sleep deprivation is a huge reason parents respond inappropriately to their child's behavior. And those responses form the child's early understanding of relationships
You talk about "the village". The thing about this is, I almost never heard anyone talk about "the village" outside of the context of caring for children. If you don't have kids, and don't plan to, it sounds like "the village" is all work and no benefit. I think a lot of childfree people worry that "the village" won't be there for them when they need help. Really, I think a lot of opposition to helping kids and parents is coming from that angle. As hard as it is to be a parent, there are a lot of resources out there for struggling parents, but if you don't have kids, it can be next to be impossible to get any kind of help. People without kids are often viewed as not having any problems or struggles, or that their problems are nothing compared to what parents deal with.
I agree. The stance of the video seems to be super critical of people who want to live by themselves. I think a lot of this comes from people having experienced interacting with others and the relationship being very one-sided.I don't think there's anything wrong with people having been fatigued with other people's issues and wanting to retreat to their own private space.
@@adriand6883 Yeah, during some Village discourse I was partaking in online, one person outright said "What were you doing for the village before you became a parent?". I don't expect The Village to be one to one transactional, but the fact that these people largely weren't doing anything for it before should have tipped them off to The Village not existing.
I also feel like parents increasingly have this view that a place being kid-friendly means that kids are allowed to run around and act like maniacs. But even places that do specifically cater to kids still have some level of etiquette and rules to follow.
I’m going to give my two cents about the ‘it takes a whole village to raise a child’ as a future educator. Sometimes parents also DON’T want to cooperate with the school too when their kids misbehave, and it takes a heavy toll on the teachers!.
@@Feedmeyoubastard_00 Great point. That's another common problem with the "the village" conversation, a lot of parents today just don't want to cooperate with the village. And you can say that that's their prerogative, but the consequence of that is that they (and their kids) won't get the benefits of being in the village.
Thank you. There are definitely parents who abandon their village once they no longer become useful to them. A village is not a “service” you acquire and then discard. That is just a recycling of a capitalist and individualist mindset with a new paint coat. It is something you participate in lifelong and take multiple roles in. That means being willing to share your own resources and care to everyone.
Something simple my partner told me a while ago has reaaally stuck with me as someone who doesn’t really like kids; that we really are the ppl who without effort & without even thinking about it, play a pretty big part in molding the kids around us that we pass by, by either sharing a smile, or giving a cold shoulder. It seems silly to say but I had never thought of it being that deep but it is, & since then I try to never ignore a child who stares at me. I used to think that was so rude & it’d irk me, but now I stop and wonder what it really is that said staring child is thinking about, & how a simple smile from me could make them feel less lonely & less nervous in a world where at least from what I recall, had me feeling those emotions constantly
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Great video, I'm child free but I don't think we should treat any people as undesirable and try to exclude them, doesn't matter what age they are. And just like we should consider people with disabilities, we should also consider children and families. Also, children and parents can have disabilities too, so I don't think we should exclude a group of people like that and treat them like a burden. Everyone should be included, considered and feel welcome by society. Edit: no, by everyone I don't mean people who harm others, like misogynists, r*cists, ab*sers, but don't act like you check for these things before boarding on a plane??? I'm clearly talking about not discriminating for things like age, race, gender, etc, my god wtf
What about Pedro files and narcicissts?
They definetely should be excludet.
Being to inklusive creates a Ton of problems.
@@CordeliaWagner1999 are you comparing children, families and disabled people to those people? Because that's a different topic. Context matters. But yes there's this thing, I think it's called something like "tolerance paradox", where you can't be too tolerant and have to be careful about accepting all ideas as equally valid, bc you can't tolerate people who harm others, like the examples you gave. But this is a different topic and I suspect you know that. I'm saying you shouldn't discriminate against people for being too young or too old or disabled. I'm not saying be kind to misogynists or yt suprem*cists, etc. Edit: actually narcissists can be treated, and I believe people clinically treat the other example you gave. It's just bizarre of you to give these examples in the context of the video, I'm clearly pro children, so why the fck would you bring up p**dos?
I feel like anytime I’ve been annoyed by a kid, the first person I look at is the parents. So many bad parents tbh and ppl who do not have the resources to properly take care of one, yet purposely have them
Obviously I don't know what situations you're referring to, but in general kids will always be annoying to some degree. No matter how good the parents are, they don't control their kids with a remote, they can't stop every bad behaviour all the time. I don't blame people for having kids, it's the most natural instinct in the world. I blame our society for making having a kid needlessly difficult, so much so that most western countries (and many others) have a birth rate below replacement. People really AREN'T having that many kids. And most of that has to do with time, we need to time to raise kids. So why the fuck are we working so much, so hard and so often??? Why do we do it when our productivity has never been higher? It serves no practical purpose other than making some abstract numbers get bigger. Who cares about our GDP? Working less would make (almost) everyone happier.
Did we watch the same video?
I have no idea what you're getting annoyed by, maybe it is something that should be blamed on the parents, BUT. I know a lot of people who just don't know a lot about normal child behavior. And it kind of sounds like you're one of them. Kids are "annoying". They just are. And it's actually normal and healthy child behavior to do things like have a tantrum in the middle of shopping every once in a while. (If they are around 3 and under.) It's actually a sign that they aren't in an abusive household. Most parents and people who are around kids a lot know this. But it's really frustrating when people are ignorant and assume any time a kid simply annoys them or has a hard time regulating their emotions, that the parents are doing something wrong. Please take time to learn a little bit about child development. Their brains are completely different than an adult's. Ps I've never had a kid who has had a tantrum or anything like that, I'm not some entitled parent, I'm a young person who just understands that kids are humans
@@lucievelyn4866 right??? I had a conversation on Instagram once bc someone was saying children shouldn't be on planes and they countered my point with something like "you're just an entitled parent / you have to give up stuff like going on a plane if you're a parent" I was like sir, no, I'm just a reasonable person ... So I felt the need to say that haha
So do you think 99% of people in Africa, who have fewer resources than the average American, should not have kids? Or do you only criticize poor people in the developed world who have kids so that you don’t sound like a eugenicist?
I don't understand the parent's obsession with trying to live like they did when they were child-free and taking their children to places that are clearly not designed for children. Sure, the pretentious brewery was your favorite date night spot when you were dating and newly married. Great! But you have a child that is screaming their head off because their ears are hurting from being in a loud, noisy environment surrounded by drunks strangers. I have also heard parents scold adults in breweries for "swearing near their child". It would have been unheard of 50 years ago for a child to be taken into a place with a liqueur license, now you can't take two steps without tripping over a humongous stroller. I think the problem is that a lot of parents refuse to accept that they're parents and the next 10 years will be nothing but Chuck-E-Cheese and that's okay! When the child is grown and they go back to their favorite pretentious brewery, they'll miss the times they took their kid to Chuck-E-Cheese on a Friday night.
I think it's less about trying to live like we did before we had kids and more about dealing with the grief that often comes from expending so much time and energy meeting someone else's needs while having no time or resources to meet your own or do the things you enjoy. I agree that parents should get a sitter and just go out to their favorite non-child-friendly place alone, but that's often a lot of work in and of itself. As a parent, I rarely go out because I either have to find a sitter or deal with the fact that my child is going to make going out less enjoyable if I go somewhere that isn't expressly built for the entertainment children (even going to the Grand Canyon with my child was a huge struggle). Neither option is convenient or easy, so I just stay home, and quite frankly, it's depressing as hell. I never imagined in a million years that having a kid would result in me basically being on house arrest because taking my kid places is awful. My kid (age 10) won't even go to the library without throwing an absolute fit. As a parent, I really do feel like a prisoner sometimes because even the most basic outings feel more like working overtime than fun family time. I agree that not every outing is suitable for children, but I also can't fault adults who just want to do something for themselves every once in a while. Most of us don't have a village of people who are willing to help make that happen, and it does negatively impact one's mental health when your own needs are never met ever. If meeting your needs means occasionally dragging your kid to the local brewery for a beer and your favorite burger, then so be it.
@@fairywingsonroses i was gonna reply but you beat me to it. You hit the nail on your head. The impact of kids especially on moms cannot be understated. I went from being a valued employee and hard worker to not working at all. Not doing anything at all. I actually suffered massive depression bc of the house arrest. No friends. No family. No work. No sleep. And certainly no help.
As kids get older it gets easier but i would get shit on for not being prepared on the few times i did work. Or not wanting to do “fun thins” because of the amt of planning and energy exuded.
this is so true. in my opinion, if you're not ready to acknowledge your life isn't completely about you and your spouse anymore, i question if having a child was right for you..
@@fairywingsonroses I hope you don't take this question as an offense or an attack, I'm just curious but... you *genuinely* didn't think that having kids would change many aspects of your life? No family members or friends (with children) warned you about it? Perhaps even movies?
@@carriesnaps3508 unfortunately people really sugarcoat and glamourize childrearing and pregnancy even though it's basically unpaid labour, pop culture does it your family does it it's promoted as the end all be all. All of that while leaving the new parent without resources or guidance because it's all sunshine and rainbows and it's your fault if its hard and burning you out according to them
I think it's adorable how you assume that the people who dislike children are all childless themselves. An awful lot of people who dislike children, *have them* , for whatever reason, and that's why "I grew up with a toxic/neglectful/abusive parent" posts are so sadly relatable online.
Most childless people don't hate them, they just don't tolerate them enough to be in charge of one 24/7, and that is called being responsible.
being neurodivergent i can't imagine hearing a child in public cry and not go "yea buddy, me too" even if i cannot handle it whatsoever and often leave bc of it. like yea it's hard with people around! you're so right!! and as much as i can't handle children i try to be sort of involved with the children in my family and advocate for them bc oh do i know my family wasn't and still isn't the most understanding with me.
it's both frustrating to have to hear people be extra vile about children and also be grouped in with the people simply for saying you dislike/hate children. people just immediately assume dislike means you have violent thoughts against something which... idk man that's just not the case and feels like projecting. it also doesn't necessarily mean you dislike all of them, but just in general. just like you can kinda hate people but still be okay hanging out with some. i dont have to like people to not be a dick towards them and see them as people. are these people being complete dicks to everyone they don't like???
I think you do have to be kind of a mean or nasty person to dislike/hate children. Why should I think positively about you if you feel comfortable saying that you hate a group of people for something that they didn’t choose and is completely healthy?
Also if you hate loud noises I take it you hate disabled adults who are loud as well? How is saying “I hate kids” any better than saying “I hate people with tourrettes” or “I hate people with intellectual disabilities”? Btw I work with kids and many of them are not loud, kids can be very shy and quiet too. Do you hate those kids?
aaand here we go with the projecting and reading into things. nowhere did i say i dislike children because of the noise, its just one scenario that i brought up where i can get "bothered" but absolutely understand the situation and have empathy with the kid because i too struggle to exist in public spaces and it gets overwhelming! and i simply remove myself if possible bc the problem here is on me to cope with as an adult and i choose to walk the rest of a busride to both escape and also unwind.
and for me saying disliking something is often not that intense. I see it as literal not liking, not being fond of etc. i just do not have the adoration that people usually have and expect of others. see the amount of people going "how could you not love these adorable cute and funny beings?" in response like, we just don't. it doesn't necessarily have to mean much more.
hate can maybe be too intense but idk man people have different ways of meaning it. i certainly hate interacting with children that i don't know even more than interacting with strangers because i have figured out social norms with adults for the most part but with kids its a wildcard and i never know what to do, especially since they're in a very impressionable age and i don't want any part in accidentally saying something that will affect them negatively.
@@intrusive-th0t
How did you read OPs comment and determine that they hate children?
How did you not pull a muscle stretching to that conclusion?
@@pinkdiamond1847 The part where it says “it’s frustrating [to be grouped with vile people] for saying you hate/dislike children”. Hope that helps!
It's wild to come from a culture that believes children are sacred and live in a world where children are often treated as, at best, free labour, and at worst, unwanted property. Love this video and appreciate the labor you put in to the research and creation ❤
also love to see some familiar faces of my favorite neurodivergent creators ❤
I'm autistic and a lot of times children crying is really overwhelming, when I was younger I definitely fell in with the child free flights people, but now I'm older I just don't see it that way anymore. I cannot expect a child to make spaces comfortable for me, if anything it should be adults jobs to make spaces comfortable for children, and a part of that means giving them space and understanding to feel emotions. I remember planes bothering me a lot and crying myself due to the pressure, those other kids might be autistic too so if anything I should empathize with their discomfort. I have noise cancelling headphones and while they aren't perfect they are good enough. However, the one thing that does really bother me is when a kid is clearly having a bad time and is upset and their mom is trying their best to comfort them and help them calm down, and the dad is just completely ignoring the situation and not helping at all like it's not his job
While I do think there was good intention meant behind this video, making efforts to promote empathy and community values, I also think it is absolutely packed with a large number of problematic assumptions about childless people's backgrounds, upbringings, privileges, intentions, and values. You frequently start thoughts with something akin to "these people probably ____". I think when you're looking to promote the message of empathy, it should go both ways, which doesn't include making assumptions based on nothing concrete. As such, it's important not to invalidate others' feelings and opinions or to communicate the message that the opposing side should basically just get over it. Which is basically a portion of what this video seems to communicate. It's ok for people to want quiet and to enjoy their lives or experiences or how they spend their money without having to deal with the consequences of someone else's life decisions- in this case parents letting their kids run around screaming and being disruptive. It's ok for people to want to relax without that. And it doesn't mean they hate kids or that they're privileged or any of the other things this video seems to imply. People who choose to be childless face enough stigma and backlash without you spreading misinformation about them. Besides, if someone has a disability where sensory input is a problem or if they are infertile and being around kids is upsetting to them...maybe some people don't want to be around kids for other reasons. Your opinion comes across as being quite ableist in that regard. I think the point of view this video was trying to uphold (empathy) should be re-evaluated if true empathy is to be found.
completely agree with you. We should absolutely afford children empathy (hopefully no one would argue otherwise) but we should be able to do the same for people who simply do not want or dislike children and I am not a fan of how this is mostly entirely left out of the video
I think one of the really concerning things is the utter lack of empathy for children. On the religious/conservative side, you have people who treat their children as property. On the progressive side (typically younger people) treat children as being somehow less than animals. If you were in public and heard a dog whimpering and crying, your first thought wouldn't be "god I fucking hate dogs", yet that is a completely acceptable position to hold regarding children.
Liberals abandon children and Conservatives treat them as slaves
@@dionysusNME both sides of the political spectrum are messed up
Not really. I love dogs and I love that my workplace is pet friendly and people are allowed to bring their *well-behaved*, *well-controlled* animals to shop with them. Same should apply to children. If someone brings in a misbehaved dog who starts barking at others, if they let their dog run around unsupervised, or don't clean up after their dog's accidents or lets them destroy merchandise, we are more than allowed to tell them to get out and ban them from bringing their dog in the future. When a parent brings their misbehaved children, letting them run around messing up the store and destroying merchandise, yelling and throwing tantrums that make everyone else's experience awful, we should be allowed to tell them to leave also, but we can't. We are made to grin and bear it. In both cases it is the fault of the guardian or parent, but why is it ok to tell one off and not the other? God forbid you tell someone how to parent their kid, talk to or even look at their child to try to mitigate their bad parenting. How is it that pet guardians are more self aware or at least more cooperative in most instances?
If I saw a child whimpering and crying it would be the same as if I saw a dog doing so, I would feel the urge to comfort them. If I saw a child throwing a self entitled tantrum, yelling and being a coercive, manipulative sht, it would be the same if I saw a dog throw a tantrum because they saw another dog they didn't like, I'd find it annoying, disruptive, and I'd roll my eyes, judge their guardian and want them to leave. You really have to be some type of moron to think children are treated worse than, or as less than animals. If that was so, maybe we should actually be allowed to treat kids as we do animals, if they are treated so much better. We should be allowed to leave them home alone, tie them outside in the yard, get rid of them without consequence when they are a nuisance or no longer cute or conform with our lifestyle, even euthanize them if we see fit or if they have behavioral problems.
And I assume you meant pet animals, because you can't possibly think we see children as less than or treat them worse than any other animal, animals that we use, farm, kiII, hunt, poison, ect.
@@jelatinosa Thank you for illustrating my point.
@@LangtwThe sound of a crying child makes me go feral. I HATE IT! And this is why I don’t have any.
People who hate children really do forget what it is like to be a child - it should be automatic empathy and understanding. You're so right in illustrating how individuals can just choose to live in a bubble of obliviousness, and how that diminishes their tolerance for anything less than their "perfect" environment.
Hmmm.. I've never met anyone who actually hates children.
@@GradyWilson-vp4ubI have and the irony is how they’re adult babies themselves a lot of times.
This is why I don't understand how adults can be so harsh to children... do you not remember being a child yourself and how it felt???
It's ok to not like kids. Some kids don't even like other kids. A lot of them get along better with older people. This is not a reason to be mean to kids, though, ever.
@@Winnie-Wonkano it’s absolutely not okay to not like kids. Maybe thats the energy that you were raised with but its not normal or okay to dislike children, they are innocent beings.
I'm neurodivergent. Kids are a sensory nightmare for me. I dislike them. Never will have any. My upstairs naighbours have a toddler that scream and jump all day, every day. I hate it, but I have enough senses to know they can't do anything about it (or don't want to) so I bought noise canceling headphones that are way overpriced. Thank you for acknowledging needs of neurodivergent people because a lot of people who makes videos like that put us in one bag with pure Karens who basically want kids to travel in carts with cattle.
Just remember that you too were a sensory nightmare for others when you were a kid.
@@fortunamajor7239 that's why I have my headphones and don't interact witch children. I can't get any more thoughtful 🤣
@@fortunamajor7239 how would acknowledging that impact how they deal with their sensory issues? They very clearly understand that it's up to them to do something about it (ie: buy headphones), I'm not sure what them also having been annoying as a child has to do with the sensory impact children have on them.
@@fortunamajor7239 did you read their post? 🙄
I dislike neurodivergent ppl
I definitely didn't dislike kids by any means, but this video really helped me change my perspective on them to an even more positive and empathetic view. Thanks Cheyenne!
Really liked your take on this. Being a millennial dad is weird, sometimes I feel an uncomfortable low key rejection from some my peers for having a kid as if I was some kind of traitor. A part of me gets it in the same sense that I've also stopped following some people on social media when they start posting way too many pictures of their kids and what not, and I also get that some people weaponize parenthood as a virtue of moral superiority or maturity, however I do feel that a lot of this anti-child sentiment arises from the frustration of not living in the future that was promised to us. In some cases this reinforces a culture of hyper individualistic values that is used as a coping mechanism.
People with children are more likely to treat child free people as part of the outgroup
wow! so insightful, definitely.
I don't want kids because as an Autistic who struggles greatly with sudden, harsh, grating, high pitched, or loud noises and any unexpected, unwanted touch, with mispophonia and the tendency to have big violent meltdowns on a short fuse, and generally struggle with stress and emotional regulation, i honestly could never. Not even to mention the costs. We don't live in a family friendly generation anymore. And i can hardly take care of myself let alone others. It's not a lack of responsibility or adulthood. It's systemic.
Well according to this girl ur privileged and u need to check urself. She hates disabled people and only cares about u if ur a child ❤
@@Sjood-qs8ol rewatch the video, you straight up lied. Do not gaslight this person.
Good you know that. Kids don’t deserve that.
I just think it's odd the way people dehumanize children without batting an eye. It's like people are objects until they are old enough to marry/fight/work. This attitude just perpetuates generational trauma.
Even after that they are still objects. Look for dehumanization in western (at least, the one I know) popular culture for the last 50 years. Boss, Employee, Coworker, Spouse, Children. "Reality Television" brought it even more into the open.
Excellent video. I plan to be child-free for awhile, in order to become financially stable and live out my life as a young adult. I am in no rush to speed up the pace of my life. I worked in childcare for 3 years during my teen years; what I’ve learned from my experience is that kids are wonderful individuals with unique personalities and interests. When given the opportunity, they will share who they are with you. They all communicate differently and have feelings, just like adults. It’s great to see what they are capable of when their interests are fostered. A boy loved theatre, so I let him perform for me. A girl liked math, so I taught her some higher level math. A boy liked Lego, so I talked about and built Lego with him. A boy liked dinosaurs, so I played dinosaurs with him and taught him new things about them. I built a connection with everyone of those kids. Once I realized how remarkable they all are, is when I began to finally see them as individuals, each with a story to tell.
i connected a lot with the toddlers at my daycare job. when one of them saw me get out of my car he’d babble my name and it always made my day. having relationships with kids is so rewarding. they’re all so different and special in their own way.
@@kaheivi that is so cute, that would make my day too! Whenever I showed up to work, I’d have kids run up and hug me. It was the ultimate compliment when kids would ask their parents to have me babysit them 😭 the girl I did math with, went as far as to ask her mom to have me give her private lessons.
I like the idea of child free places because of the parents not the kids. The kids aren’t being properly watched and cared for by their guardians at times and it stresses me out as a person who worked in childcare for most of my life
I’m child free, I’m 24. I’m child free because I have a lot of trauma and mental health issues. I love kids, I tried to be a teacher and work in a daycare. After a few weeks I noticed that I didn’t have the temperament. I have ptsd episodes when someone raises their voice, so all it took was one kid screaming in my ear for me to shut down into a flashback episode. I ended up getting fired because it was happening too often and it started making me physically sick (I was vomiting daily). So yeah, I would not make a good parent, my child would end up emotionally neglected just like I was.
The amount of assumptions in this video is shocking… most child-free by choice adults I know grew up in places with an abundance of kids, and those who didn’t grow up around a lot of kids, desired to have many. It’s like saying only-children prefer not having friends, when I know it to be the complete opposite.
this fuckass video is so judgy and ableist as well. im autistic and hate noise- should i have to suck it up when theres a child screaming near me and i cant walk away or my headphones dont drown them out?
I think I'm allowed to make an assumption too given the amount of assumptions in this video, but I think this lady has a superiority complex after getting over some not-so popular opinions she had herself on kids. She herself said that she used to be an asshole who was privileged and hated kids because she wasn't around them. Now she projects that onto the majority of people of the upper class and people she deems privledged throughout the video, because she didn't like that part of herself. Not to say hating kids is cool, but given how some kids act it's natural. So while calling all of these people who disagree with her assholes and close minded, she's simultaneously making assumptions about their motives and cutting off empathy.
Yeah while she does bring some valid points around 1/3 of the video the 'you baby hating soulless provileged pearl clutchers' tone kicks in. It feels like she's arguing with someone nonexistent lol
It's so weird to me, she opens the video acknowledging that millenials are the poor apartment generation, then assumes every childless by choice person is privileged enough to living in a sequestered house in the suburbs???
It's so ridiculous to me how easily we, as adults, forget just how terribly we were treated as children just a few short years ago. I'm 47, a parent, and I still remember just how difficult it was (relatively difficult, that is, I was still born the most privileged gender, the most privileged race, and in the most privileged country at the time). This is just another symptom of our lack of empathy, something we have struggled with since at least as long as we've been recording things. The only thing that will save us from ourselves is a huge paradigm shift toward more compassion and empathy
Go away then. Problem solved.
I think it’s important to note that even if you choose to be childfree, you have the ability to be a child advocate! Do your part to educate yourself as you (hopefully) do for any other minoritized group. Fight for children’s agency!
thank you! some people use being childfree to be hostile and downright abusive towards children instead of realizing the current societal landscape that is harming children and adults alike
I'm always gonna be childfree but I still love and seek to advocate for kids. Whole reason I want to work as a child life specialist, once I'm able to go to college. I want to care for them and ease their pain and fear. I just don't think I'd be happy as a parent.
I really don't understand the push back for child free spaces and events. Like folks are wanting a space for them to go to rather than kick out folks from a place they're already included in, why be mad at that?
Do you feel the same about "disabled people free spaces"
People don't choose to be disabled. People DO choose to be parents. Kindly do fuck off with your false equivalencies. @@phuck8627
not the same at all@@phuck8627
@@phuck8627 Not even remotely comparable
@@phuck8627 some places are already children free like bar or strip club. its not comparable
I know it's not at all the main point of the video but thank you for bringing up how homeschooling plays into this. I was a homeschool kid and, without going too much into it, it was genuinely traumatizing. Like I have panic attacks when I have to stay at home for more than a week. I didn't even realize how absolutely numb and emotionless i felt until college, when I finally got to be around people for more than a few hours a month (tops). It's so frustrating that the only people who seem to care enough to talk about it only see it as a little whacky at best, and at worst actively glorify it, completely dismissing actual issues that students like me have experienced. It feels like a silly thing to get so emotional over but it genuinely meant the world to me to hear someone talk about it like that, it was so validating in a way I haven't felt before. Thank you
I was public schooled and viciously abused by my parents
Terrible parents will be terrible regardless
I homeschool my LO and trust me, she def has it better than public school kids. Not all "homeschooling" is the same. Your parents just sucked.
Yeah, even if your parents aren't abusing homeschooling to indoctrinate you and keep you from the outside world the lack of socialization with other kids and being outside of the house is mind numbing. I have been home schooled since grade 1 and I was so lonely as a child, even the two times I've been in the private school system I couldn't make any friends and extracurricular activities were inaccessible to me and my mom. I've had mental health crises over the pandemic because I couldn't see the only two real best friends I had, which was made worse when I found out they moved away from me. People underestimate how crucial interaction with your community is
@@S3lkie-Gutz
This is not normal of homeschoolers
@@terrisseroseit happened to me and @S3lkie-Gutz literally just described my childhood so we exist
If it is not your wedding, you do not get a say. Period.
At least SOMEONE seems to understand how the world works!
It just means less people to celebrate you're union ❤
also even if toddlers are well-behaved they are suddenly pushed to grow up faster by having their stuffed animals and security blankets taken away from them it's a lose-lose situation either way
My little brother is 10 years younger than me, my grandmother had custody of him when I stepped in at 20 to help split custody between her and my partner and I. Whenever someone asks about the custody situation there I always laugh and say “it takes a village!”
I used to follow a child free UA-cam channel and there was this person in the comments complaining about an autistic man in her neighborhood who had children. They didn’t describe his kids as being ill-behaved,just weird. That made me feel so uncomfortable
The disgust of kids doesn’t just come from not being exposed to them. It’s also comes from trauma around kids in childhood. A few of my friends who grew up poor were subjected to neglect, watching adults be torn apart by children, being parentified super early and more. And bc of those experiences they are very negative towards children.
Just another perspective ❤
As someone who lives in urban housing in a major US city and has ridden public transport for the majority of my life. I find a lot of misconceptions about what this is like in modern day. There is definitely no common space for me to talk with neighbors. I avoid my neighbors as much as possible because I know from experience, the less people know about you the better. When I do go outside I have to watch my surroundings very closely. The people I see gather outside, typically gather out front of the liquor store down my street, and they're always intoxicated so walking past them I have no idea what they might do. All I can do is show no fear and keep moving. For myself at least, the worst that has ever happened was sexual harassment or racially antagonistic remarks. But now and then there are local reports of people being stabbed, beaten, pushed into traffic, etc. Because they made the mistake of walking by the wrong person. There is ZERO sense of community here. Its actually the thing I hate about this neighborhood, other aspects of city life I enjoy actually but the culture of anti-community is hard to live with. Same with riding public transport. Had a homeless guy call my kid a "screaming useless b*tch" because my kid cried for the 5 minutes we were on that train. I've witnessed many assaults on public transport. I've had to scream, punch, kick, pepper spray, threaten to stab, throw things at people just to get them to stop. Ive seen people brutally assault the elderly. Its not a communal space. Its not a space for my kid to learn how to connect with others. For me I view it as a space where my kid learns that the world is not a safe place, that some people will hurt you if given the chance, and that this is the reality of our world. We're family and Ill back you up until the end. Likewise, I hope one day when my child is grown, they will have the back of someone who is in trouble. When I was robbed on public transit the first time, I never forgot the people who helped me calm down and file a police report. I'll also never forget the people I saw being assaulted who I jumped in to try and help. It is the least we can do for one another as human beings. But what I really want to say is that I feel these things are romanticized heavily in the media right now, living in dense housing and taking public transit. Yet the major issues that afflict us who has been living this way for years already is never addressed. I would rather there be light shined on to it so that one day these things may change. I would love for my child to have a sense of community in the neighborhood they grow up in. But thats not reality in the inner city. Its every man for himself here.
I definitely do not want to discount your experience, but I think that city life with better safety nets and easy access to medical care, etc is very different than city life somewhere that doesn't have it as much.
Personally, I was raised in unwalkable suburbs and eventually moved to Chicago. I was living on a grad student stipend and lived on the safer side of what was considered a border between a somewhat safe and not safe area but certainly not one the worst areas of the city. Most people I know were robbed at g*npoint at least once, although I never was, and I got used to some sketchy things on public transportation as well.
Now, I live in England. My city is not huge, but the population density is even higher than in Chicago. I don't feel on edge here in the same way at all. It is actually a big part of why I love it here; I can walk/ride the bus places, and I don't have to worry about dying or being attacked.
I also lived in various large cities in China for a year ages ago and felt the same sense of joy of public transport without the danger.
When people romanticise public transport, I think they are thinking of safety + public transport like I have experienced.
Holy shit lady, I hope you move to a good republican capitalist city, living in fear and stress can't be good for you and your kids, we don't have any of those issues here.
@@xlysxy🤣🤣🤣
@@kate4781 What you describe about city life in other countries is what I wish I could have for my own city. But it's not reality here. I've lived in an urban but rural neighborhood and it was so much worse there. I've also been to suburbs on the edge of nowhere and it was the worst living situation of all for me. But living in the city now for as hard as I worked to make it happen still has a lot of issues. I've never left the US, so yes I have a more narrow view of what the world is like unfortunately. Really, I am used to seeing the political systems here skewing the concept of city life in one direction or another, that either it is hell on earth or it is a perfect wonderland. I find both of them to be equally untrue.
@@xlysxy I've been close enough and after it all would still prefer it if I never went back. No thanks...
As a childcare practitioner in training, I find the continued hatred and contempt for beings that we as adults owe protection to be deeply disturbing. As an adult, whether you are child free or not- it is your responsibility to help in a united effort to protect children from immediate harm. They didn’t ask to be here, and they are people who are truly innocent. We as adults understand of hardships of life- they don’t. They cannot comprehend the exploitation and abuse that hides around every corner. It isn’t fair to leave them to face it alone.
Thank you!!
this! 100%
I hardly think most CF people help a child in legitimate trouble from harm. It's the rest that I don't care for.
Im so so happy about the neurodivergent bit. I was geniuenlly feeling awful about not being able to handle kids on public transport :(
Don’t feel awful, if it was under your control you wouldn’t feel like that, you shouldn’t feel bad for something you can’t affect like that
I wish there were more understanding both ways. I'm sure there are a ton of undiagnosed autistic adults who say they don't like kids (like I did) but don't really know why. We shouldn't be judged for that, especially if we're still being polite to those around us. We're allowed to state that we don't enjoy children without being judged for being out of touch, rich, or privileged.
A quiet section in most places would be amazing and really solve a lot of issues for a lot of people.
I’m 35 weeks pregnant with my first child at 23 yrs old - I hope I will set this little person up to thrive. Doing everything I can prenatally to prepare for it and all but I have no idea what to expect
I’m so glad you made this video. I thought for many years about how anti-child this society is. Hell, just a very fact the trouble teen industry exists alone is enough to show that.
I just started working at an elementary school right after graduating college, and it has completely changed how I view kids, I didn’t expect to love spending my days with them as much as I do - yes they’re very cursed and dealing with a lot of garbage, but I’m still very hopeful about how they’ll turn out, they’re still amazing little dudes
Ear popping from higher elevations in airplanes is extremely painful for babies and children. They’re crying because they’re in physical pain.
Speaking as an autistic adult, noise cancelling headphones exist and work wonders.
i feel like this argument also falls through when considering disabled people who make noises that are out of their control. i knew a kid in high school that had cerebral palsy and he made noises when he breathed. vocal stimming, vocal tics, etc also come to mind. it’s so close minded to ask someone to be silent for hours at a time.
@@kaheivi Absolutely.
Damn, i am one of those people that kind of hates children, like... Im one of the people the video is about, sure, sometimes I like hanging out with them when they are nice but as soon as they do something i dont like or i dislike the parents i just immediately go child hater mode...
I never thought about this and I think this video held a mirror to my face and helped me realize that its not cool to be like that
Friend, children are people. When someone says they don’t like children, they are saying they don’t like people.
@@asmodiusjones9563 I'm not a people-person, but I don't hate children just because they're children.
I'm surprised you never mentioned parentification and how abusive it can be. I understand that making a village is a good thing, but i really think we need to still set roles for specfic people in children's lives. I was parentified at 12 and really had no say in the matter. I was taking care of a child that wasnt mine and instead of feeling like apart of her caregivers I felt resentment toward her and my parents. While siblings should help they should never be a primary caregiver. I also want to make clear that i agree with you view points stated here, I just hate the idea of having more kids so you have a free baby sitter.
I also grew up this way. I was parentified at 11 because my mom became very sick. It was a vicious cycle of me resenting her and then feeling guilty because "it's not her fault". It still was her responsibility to find an adult caretaker in her absence. It's taken me 20 years to realize that what happened was abuse.
Also the implication that being childfree is somehow being less empathetic is kinda…weird.
did you watch the video
What makes you less empathetic is acting entitled to a childless world. Being childfree does not.
It is also okay to have less empathy . We all can’t be empaths. It is delusional to think so.
@@teehee4096
Expecting parents to parent and for some places to be childfree isn’t though.
@@teehee4096 Okay but nobody should be forced to interact with children if they dont want to.
A few thoughts: its easy to say "we should just talk to each other when something is wrong" when there is very real violence that can happen to people for interjecting especially when it comes to how people parent their kids. Not saying calling the cops is the answer for "loud" neighbors but i ive been threatened multiple times for just looking at people while they "parent" their kids
Screaming babies on a plane is never going to be something i will want to be around. I understand it is developmentally normal. I literally grew up in the ghetto in NYC. I have never owned a car, always taken public transit. You can have empathy and still not want to be trapped with literal screaming and kicking in a melt down, over headphones especially. In other times of life, if kids are being loud and disruptive I can move away. Kids have the right to be in public, but I can't do that on a plane. If i can be removed from it, i would - just like i arrange for seats in a quiet car on trains so i dont hear obnoxious adults on their phones. That does not mean i dont know i used to be a kid, or hate children, or dont have empathy. If the argument is "you shoud be ok with it because you were a kid once and because you have to compromise around other people" my answer is " Perhaps if flying/other activities routinely causes the kids such distress, parents should consider maybe not doing it. Maybe they need to compromise their need to tan in cabo with their own children's wellbeing". Because, What of the children? Is being forced on a journey where you have meltdowns good for them?
I also dont think child free flights are "shunning children" , unless there was a significant threat to accessibility for parents flying with kids. Which is probably not going to happen because thats a huge revenue stream. I deeply suspect parents are against this idea because they as well dont like being around other kids.
I also would not categorize airplanes as public transit. It implies there are private alternatives in a similar method of travel, but private planes are so wildly expensive (are terrible for the environment) they are virtually inaccessible for the majority of flyers. The accessibility of private plane rides to things like cars, motorbikes, scooters etc is so wide even for people higher incomes.
Finally i feel like this thesis is response to a very online argument and not really reflective of the western culture around children as a whole. The majority of people have children, so in reality the world is indeed built for that. There arent that many places in common society where children are not allowed to be. Bars (in the US) strip clubs, sex shops, etc sure. But everywhere else children are commonly accepted and there are many public places only children are socially accepted to be. If i wanted to eat at a restaurant or see a movie or get my hair braided or literally anywhere adults can have leasure time not connected to sex and drugs, there will be children. So im wondering if this type of reactionary video just amplifies the conflicting message instead of refuting it.
I had to scroll way too long to find a comment like this. In my entire life I have only ever found one cafe/ restaurant that didn’t allow kids below the age of 10, It was a lovely cat cafe in berlin. I just really don’t see the problem with having some childfree spaces like this. There’s millions of cafes, why can’t a few be adult only?
@@UwU-dw8em I agree. In fact, there may be parents themselves who appreciate having dates or meetings or even self time in such environments. She (the video host) several times mentioned pearl-clutching when referring to the deliberately child-free when challenged on that choice. But I’ve witnessed many who romanticize parenthood do that upon learning any individual is like that. They immediately make so many unfavorable assumptions
This creator also chooses the most unempathetic interpretation of childfree people possible. A lot of these people grew up parentified and are now finally in a position in life where they can have a boundary in regards to dealing with kids and she just brands them as hateful and selfish. It's honestly intellectually lazy.
I think you're absolutely right, I couldn't even finish this video because it's just so obviously wrong.
Even for teens too, when you're a teenager you're stuck in this weird liminal space where you're too old to be a kid anymore but too young to be an adult yet. Teens need their own spaces too, spaces where high expectations aren't put on them but they aren't babied and infantilized either. I'm also a supporter of childfree flights, not just because as a disabled and neurodivergent/mentally ill person but altitude change and flights are super hard on babies bodies and is super distressing for them and I completely empathize as someone with inner ear vestibular issues and barotrauma. It just really boggles my mind people take their children to situations that clearly distress them and make them overwhelmed and ignore them, like bro your kid is crying because everything hurts the plane is noisy and their ears are full of fluid I don't think it's very safe or healthy for the small dude. I don't even like air travel that much, I much prefer the ferry/seabus or bullet trains and monorail to avoid the altitude and pressure changes that flights bring because I'd be crying too. I think parents need to be more sensitive to little kids sensitivities and sensory needs and realize how painful and scary some things are for little baby brains and accommodate that
No, i don't want to be around kids in general not because i grew up cuddle without kids but because i been around then too much i don't want to sacrifice my peace for irgsr anymore child free weddings aren't a bad thing people are allowed to have boundaries and make celebrities that work for them
Exactly, I suffered from eldest daughter syndrome. I paid my due. Now I want peace and quiet.
I wonder how many people who hate kids had a bad childhood. Like it's easy to think of kids as spoiled and parents as bad, if you weren't allowed to be a normal children.
Not enough people say No to having children, and have made that other people's problem.
However, children don't choose to be born or create themselves. And the safe spaces they need to grow and learn in a healthy way have been cut into and divided or just flat out removed, and that's not fair to them in any way.
Why do people assume you hate kids just bc you don’t want them? Expand your mind already….
As a waitress I deal with a lot of kids and parents. And yes serving children is stressful and inherantly requires more workd (getting high-chairs/boosters, storing strollers, explaining menu options suitable for kids, having to sweep up food-tornados, or change linens more regularly) but I don't get the hate most people have. Most kids despite the extra work are either neutral or funny and parents usually go out of the way to make the experience as painless as possible for everyone. Like parents with babies will wait until nap time and show up with a game plan and fit a 3 course meal into a 45 minute period and be super appologetic the whole time. It feels so mean and self involved to ban the usually considerate people from luxury for 12-18 years because you don't like kids.
Also whenever there is a goblin child it is usually because their parent is an ipad-adult and they are actively ignoring their children.
I am also floored by how not empathetic people are to kids. Like restaurants are loud, full of strangers, you have to wait for food at your table, you have to wait for your parents to finish their food, you probably won't get desert, the chairs suck, the may not have any food you like, and you might be eating at a weird time outside your routine. I would probably be missbehaving too if I was forced to strange food at a rave well after my bedtime
Why don't you get a job that earns you more money and is less stressfull.
1) I was trying to communicate that children are higher needs customers it would be like working with a boomer on a tech focused project at a normal job but kids are like actively trying to learn and grow
2)Don't be one of those people who condescends service jobs. Most people who work at good restaurants are career servers and make better money than office folk and we just don't like sitting at work all day and enjoy the flexiblity and human interaction. We aren't some teen hired to work at the hell scape that is Swiss Chalet or Olive Garden who have cheep clinetelle and garbage work conditions@@CordeliaWagner1999
Your scenario of why children may act up at restaurants is exactly why children shouldn't attend restaurants or at the very least, there should be special sections or times for children.
Nah a specialized secion would be harder to work with from a staff perspective and organization perspective cause we don't know how many kids we will get (sometimes a group of 3 adults and 7 kids just show up an you have to squeeze them wherever, especially if you are an indi place that doesn't have crazy square meterage), and it would be more overstimulating for kids if there was just a whole zone for kids screaming and running. Restaurants aren't a peer to peer interaction like playgrounds it is a learing expericne for the social code. Being board and getting told off/ being expected to uphold certain behaviors is kind of how to raise a good person 101 and even if you don't want to raise a kid raw dogging the bad times are worth it in the long run cause you get better neighbors and grown ups@@MK-hh1vo
You know, I didn't attend restaurants until I could demonstrate the ability to not be a general nuisance. That's why babysitters were used.