Dual Motor Electric Vehicle Drivetrain With Powerglide 2 Speed Transmission Walkthrough by EV West
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- Опубліковано 2 гру 2013
- Here's a brief 10 minute video that gives a nice overview of the EV West 2 speed Powerglide transmission that runs without a torque converter direct drive to 2 coupled Warp 11 motors. Depending on the voltage and current, these twin motors can put out well over 1000 lb/ft of torque, and 600+ horsepower. We used this motor and transmission combination to power our BMW M3 to the summit of Pikes Peak in 2012 setting an all time record for street legal electric cars. The strength and reliability of this system is key. For more information regarding this bolt in drive train, please visit evwest.com for the latest updates.
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This is fantastic. I'm 73 years old now and my health is failing but I built race cars from parts I got out of wrecking yards when I was a kid. If I had my health and strength back I'd be taking on a project with this concept. EXCEPTIONAL GUYS. REALLY EXCEPTIONAL.
Ppppppppppppppppppppppppm
Wish you the best Ronzig
And you were probably using this same transmission design (but with a torque converter).
thanks so much for this sharing, it looks amazing!! I've studied electric machines for years at uni and always wanted to see these marvelous things in action. This is the future!
Michael Bream and his crew at EV West are some of the most knowledgeable and polite people when it comes to EV conversions. Michael was a huge help with my project and gave me advice from batteries to powertrain design.
One of the things he warned me about, however, was that this Reid powerglide was specifically made for racing and was not "kind" on street use due to the inherent pressure loss of the transmission. When discussing options for how to generate the needed PSI of fluid, they were limited to diesel fuel pumps (somewhat loud, but effective) or just allowing the internal pump to spin up to 500 rpm and launch the vehicle into motion (usually with wheels chirping).
No doubt, the PowerGlide can handle the output, but don't try modifying your own (non-Reid design) to fit because the mounting points on a standard unit would end up being the pump mounting bolts and are not designed for the forces involved.
Just my own perspective, folks.
What do you think of this? I have a 1992 F150 that I bought brand new. It won’t pass smog now but has a good rebuilt differential the three speed Borg warner manual shift
transmission is in very good condition. The body is all original. This truck is clean and straight. Trucks are expensive nowadays so I thought an electric one would be handy.
Do you like that idea of making it electric?
This is a head shaker for me ...... All the blood sweat and tears of gas cars for 40 years and this is it ???? I LOVE progress and performance !!!!! EV West rules !!!! Wish you folks were closer to Long Beach CA. Maybe best for you because I am geeked and a huge fan and would cruise by looking at all the great vehicles you are doing. You guys are my heroes in automotive sense
I would never have thought it was that easy to cut those shafts, Good stuff, that power glide gearbox seems like a perfect solution.
jehugarcia
Old vid - is there newer tech?
ua-cam.com/video/zYy6Ix_39v0/v-deo.html
@@ckabouttech4147 Excellent video.
watching this 3 years later sends a brainstorm of ideas thru my head. great stuff :)
I love this video. mechanics , and high end audio is the kinda stuff i have been dreaming up daily just never had the money to pursue my ideas
Bleeding-edge technology literally bolted directly to 1950s technology. It's absolutely a solid combination, it's just funny to see the contrast.
Seth Baker More like 1800s tech bolted to 1950s tech. The science behind DC motors really hasn't changed much. Honestly, I think people are finally starting to look at electric solutions because of gas prices and environmental concerns.
Chevez Ezaneh no, because batteries are finally not shit. lithium ions are like 1200 % more power than a lead acid of the same weight
well done video and very informative. Nice to see the adapters you've engineered. Great time savings for the assembly process.
Great choice on the Powerglide! I always loved those transmissions both for their super light weight and unbelievable strength. Those things are as strong, reliable and untemperamental as an anvil! They don't call them the "Poor man's Lenco" for nothing!
By they do you mean no one?
Great Video. That is hands down the best auto transmission I have seen for an EV....
I had a power glide in my 69 Nova with a 327, it was an indestructible transmission.
You gotta love working on things with built-in lathes!!!
ua-cam.com/video/zYy6Ix_39v0/v-deo.html
One of the best videos I have seen, excellent guys.
i dunno about the cutting disk part, but that was a really cool vid. thanks for something straight forward and unpretentious!
We have been using that setup in a drag boat for years . Extremely reliable setup. Wish I had the money to play with electrics . I would definitely wire up my old Duster project with a Warp 11.
Love your precision die grinding technique..
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very cool setup I would love to have this installed in my 91 318is
It's amazing the Powerglide is still available. Hadn't seen one since my '64 Impala.
Drag racing crowd loves them. They are everywhere, basically one of the strongest autos available.
Dam dude AWESOME info here, huge game changer compared to the norm of hotroding and racing fuel motors. Love the glide trans. Y'all are starting the real forward advancement in ev evolution. Racing these things will be the future when gas is no more.
It’s amazing how in less than a decade this technology is so archaic now, brushed dc motors, contactors, probably lead acid batteries.
I love the idea of electric cars, I just don't care for the limited range. I absolutely love what you guys did here, and hope to do a similar project with my son when he finishes up his autotech degree from UNOH.
I have a 1992 F150 that would be a good candidate for electric conversion, I think.
Comment if you like
EV West: THE MOST AWESOME GUYS ON THE PLANET!
Thx Matt, glad to see U still git’ner done !
You guys rock! Thanks for posting!
Completely badass awesomeriffic is all I got to say, wish I had the money to do a project like that for now I will keep to 2 wheels until I build up enough funds.
you can easily build a brushed dc motor of this size yourself just using scrap copper wire and basic hand tools and a homemade welder. total cost say $40
And you haven't posted a UA-cam video, yet? We're waiting.
This is a really great video! Very Informative and easy to follow.
Holy Cow Batman! You just said the most brilliant thing! Get rid of the torque converter and go direct coupling! My first car was a '65 GTO which was really just a badass looking Tempest lol. It had a Powerglide. They got a bad rap, but I remember many drag racers loved them; 70 mph first gear and only one shift.
To your comment though, now I know how I'm going to build my EV '82 Chevy Caviler Station Wagon. Thanks guys :)
A very nice set up, I have cut a gearbox shaft in a similar way and got away with it, despite having to cut the spigot section. Should be no problem in your application. Presumaby you are running a really tall ratio axle, I believe these motors are ok up to about 6000rpm. Would not think you needed a lower gear with all that torque output.
Love what you are doing with the electric motors and the transmission. Would this setup be a good combination for as full sized pickup? What amount of batteries would you recommend?
THISSSS IS WHAT I WANT FOR MY CAR I only recently got into ev conversion concepts and I’m hoping to do this to my e39 Bmw
Excellent video please keep them coming!
With four motors that size you could make a really nice quad-copter!
GM power glide, still in demand 70 yrs after its first use! what a wonderfull invention. gm should be proud! are they still making new ones?
If by they you mean gm, no
Yep, when GMC was really GMC. Sadly it's all gone to the dogs. I mean, to China.
GM doesn't but there are several aftermarket companies that build versions for racing, which would work well in this application.
Great video! Love the setup
Nice drive train's awesome they look brilliant
Brilliant! Thanks for this wonderful presentation....Just curios about the cost?
Great job on cutting the shafts. But my question is how do you get that long thing inside a car? Does it get mounted longitudinally and the powerglide connects to a long driveshaft which connects to the rear differential? What do you connect (a fan?) to the otherside of the motor? Thanks in advance.
The BMW has a lot of space under the hood. That, paired with the removal of the transmission creates plenty of space. The transmission they've mounted has an adapted for the driveshaft, yes. They don't connect anything to the other side. At least I don't think they do, nothing makes much sense, to be honest.
I have been involved in the automotive industry for the past fifty years and I have never been more excited about the industry as I am now. I want to say thank-you for such a great video as this one. The only problem is, it is a teaser. I hope that you have future planes of taking this subject all the way to completion. Maybe you could start with a vehicle that is easily available to all. Hopefully you can let us know approximately of course how much each process costs and the best way to go about doing the process. I am thinking about starting a project and I hope you will be able to help me walk the slippery slope to success. Thanx and keep the good work.
Awesome lathe job with the grinder. I have never seen that.
Congratulations ..
I might have missed in in one of your great videos, Can you give a run down of the general cost of the two motor set up? Consider mentioning the year, so future watchers will know the price was only relative at the time spoken. :)
This is gonna sound crazy, but.. I am considering replacing gas for electric on a boat. We have a private lake out back that is electric constricted, but not speed, for a few thousand ish.. I would like to ski on this pristine lake. Heaven!
Will the batteries generally be safe in a higher humidity environment?
Thanks to all who comment in the future!
Use marine batteries.
@@TheCharleseye 9k
7 years old and still ahead of its time.
some of the new electric motors coming onto the market 1/3 the length of just one of your old type with the nearly the same torque of both motors makes for some snug installing or stacking of motors , nicely put together video btw )
I think this setup would be great for SUV's like Escalade's or Suburban's,
Great overview! I'm planning at least one 11 in my conversion to your powerglide setup, but I'm using a Warp-Drive 1400 Amp controller with IDLE feature, so I shouldn't need the pump (right?). We should talk again as I also want to use your front adapter plate. (and now you have me thinking about dual 9's instead of a single 11...) Thanks for sharing!
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It just seems amazing that this trans can handle so much torque without self destructing, they were probably never designed to handle so much "grunt".
thanks for the great video!
2:14, knowing that burrs sill could exist I wouldn't go dragging my finger across the end while it's still in rotation.
I thought the same thing
Thanks for the info !! i've got an EV project starting up :)
I'll be in touch for some help !
Love the shirt also ha
Great video presentation.
The more I watch these videos about EV conversion, the more I want to convert my 1980 Chevy Citation into one. I only say this because to this day I still want something to insanely update and modernize my car in some way and had this fantasy about putting an LS engine in one at some point, until I found out that a lot of ICE conversions typically go in that route, and I'd still be boggling with fuel consumption. Biggest thing that concerns me is wondering if it would be worth it in the long run, and not just for bragging rights.
I'm not into EV to save the planet or anything like that, but I have been severely impressed by the results of what EV's are capable of and I'd like to learn as much as I can about this exciting technology. As I've mentioned elsewhere, I really wish EV West were, or in the very least had a sister company of some sort to physically visit, here in Tucson. Because I'd really like to pick their brains about what they do and how they might be able to help me, presuming I could even afford such a venture.
Hello.
Thanks for your video. It's actually very very helpful to a novice like myself. I have several projects currently in progress;
Electric propelled ultralight plane
Electric dc motored ppg (paramotor) I currently fly 2 and 4 stroke motors with very limited tuning, sound deadening options (though most of the noise is from the props breaking the sound barrier. Do you know or are you able to supply any motors that would be under 25kg that could provide 50lb of torque? My concept involves using propellers that have a great enough pitch that they don't need to brake the sound barrier. And it seems that electric motors are the only form of power unit thay could provide the torque needed while saving on weight. (Currently I am just under 50kg not including my wing. This includes my full tank of fuel, motor, frame, controls etc....
Another advantage would be;
-a non mechanical cable (bluetooth controller)
-no need for a clutch to reduce propellor movement during initial takeoff (the most risky part in my opinion)
-silence while at 0rpm and less chance of mechanical failure (if built correctly)
As you'll obviously know, torque is what matters. This is what I'm aiming for. Currently my tandem motor is 27hp and 26lb of torque. But it's extremely hazardous during takeoff with a passenger due to the constant rotation of the prop. Anyway. I'll message you my email address if your able to help? I Ave several small time investors and sponsors, several mechanical engineers, 1 aviation engineer and 1 electrical engineer. Also I have a source for custom pitched propellers to achieve our
the best way to have reverse on an electric motor is to have a good enough controller to switch to reverse. but you can use the trans too.
Perhaps, but that would not allow a way of using the transmission to hold the vehicle without the motors running. Also cannot simply reverse the motors when powering an automatic transmission.
But the Powerglide is not like most automatic transmissions. It’s only a two speed, one underdrive, or low gear, and then top gear is 1:1, just like any old 3-speed auto. The whole point of using the Powerglide is it’s inherent strength. It is the first choice of bracket racing drag cars. It only has to shift once, so the whole system that enables a shift from 1st to 2nd, which is not the final gear, complex. Even the 2nd to 3rd is a weak point, with the central (2nd) gear being the problem child. One shift into a gear that doesn’t have to again shift up is much stronger. Also less slippage. But really only for certain applications where torque multiplication isn’t such a huge deal. So with the massive RPM range of electric motors and a plateau for a torque curve, this transmission is actually genius for the application.
Great video!
So well explained!
NICE!. I'd like to try a locomotive traction motor on a semi truck with a 10 speed auto or manual transmission. You can put a huge battery in a 53 foot long trailer to power it & have lots of run time! Use solar cells on the top & sides for recharging etc. That would be cool AF! SEMI-LOCO!!! :-)
Nice, that’s about 15k worth of gear here in Australia tho
Well done video.
Something not covered in the vid, when coupling splined systems, it is critical to put grease on the splines to prevent fretting. If left dry, the splines can even gall together making it difficult to take apart.
Hmmm... what about four motors and two Powerglides, one for each rear wheel with a microprocessor controlling traction and shift points? Or, same setup for all-wheel drive... one can dream.
nozmoking1 too heavy probably better for off roading, then implementing smart ai for traction control for off-roading too and each works like a smart control throttle for really messed up terrain, could be fun
"Alright, so..."
putting this in my VW Fox.
@Thad Dunkin hyundai veloster?
62 vette
Great video.
Sweet setup. Would really want one and put in a BMW 2002 Classic car.
can you tell me the motor ratings or send me a link or something
and how do these motors work?
Thank You
How do you eliminate road vibration from ending up in the motor and motor-bearings as well as the transmission bearings? What kind of frame is that mounted to? How do you eliminate frame twisting that could translate into the motors?
I guess he's using rubber dampeners as well as magnetic bearings.Also he possibly uses reinforced steel frame with lots of struts.
Park, yes you need a park pawl but it should also short out the input leads on the motor will resist allowing the car accumulating much speed if it rolls away. (dynamic braking, works like regenerative braking)
Great video
Yeah I'll take a set of those for my golf cart..........
You're gonna have the quickest golf cart at the country club lol
I cant imaging finding all the golf balls with this.
BREAKING: Florida Man turns Golf Cart into death trap. Quoted as saying "When this thing hits 88 mph, you're gonna see some serious shit"
The greens keeper would be your bestest ENEMY in the world!!
Cause his ass would be hunting you down like an assassin with a contract to fill..
Not to mention you would go through a set of tires every 7 seconds..
can you do a 4 weel drive conversion
In response to that question, you will not go far with battery power unless you have a portable generator that charges the batteries as well as providing electric power to the motors to keep you going.
nice video, very informative, thanks
I REALLY enjoyed this. Thanks so much.
how much to covert,say any car
I'm looking to build a three wheel 'delta' shaped vehicle with the two drive wheels in the rear. My whole concept is based on the Nissan/Panoz Deltawing race car, but with two seats, and at least enough storage space for a 30-gallon laundry bucket.
My ideal goals are a running weight of around 1750-2000 pounds, with an output of 175-250HP and a 125-150 mile range. My question is, would such a thing be possible using a 2-speed transmission, and, say, a 7500-12,500 RPM AC motor [for motor braking and regenerative braking]? And, if so, where would I find something like that?
Also, what size and kind of power pack should I be looking at, and will the SAWC allow the range and performance I desire?
Thanks,
~Dave
Bad idea study the Renault 3wheeler they flip best to have 1 wheel in rear and 2 up front for traction and controlling stability in turns
This video popped up today in my email and when I saw it was you guys, I was really hoping this was going to be a NEW VIDEO.. So guys, how about some NEW VIDEO'S????? There has to be some new stuff since 3 years ago!!
Would love this setup for my pickup!!!
Can I add this electric motor to boat running batterys 🔋 charge by solar panels and a generator as's well?
Yeah yeah free enegry yathz
Left guys mic in my right ear.. right guys mic in my left ear.. got me confused as hell first.
right.
Moronicsmur
Left guys mic in my right ear.. right guys mic in my right ear.
Oh thank you for comenting i though my earbuds were fucked
Just flip your headphones
GREAT APPLICATION FOR BOATS .
This, inside a frame where the pilot sits on one side, and on the other the batteries, four wheels, dual steering, and, everything no higher than knee height, a great race car.
Why are you using 2 phase dc motors, brushed?, instead of 3 phase ac or dc asynchrone or synchrone machines ?
Mathieu B I’m wondering the same thing but for just ac due to the regenerative braking
Why would you even care if it works and it's SIMPLE. Do you really think Elon knows everything? Come back to reality folks.
Or maybe I'm taking too serious your sarcasm. hehehe
Cost
DC motors have proven to be more energy efficient than AC motors even after regenerative functions are factored in. Though it does cost by way of brake wear.
Also take into account when the car was built and what was available on the market and the reduce cost of DC vs AC.
At that time there was an abundance of DC offerings available relative to AC.
You would also have to consider availability and price of controller/invertor suitable for an automotive application at that time.
Yeah, brushes suck but they are easy to acquire and replace nearly anywhere in the world.
I'm sure we all do the best we can with the materials and understanding available to us at the time.
I think they have done a very good job.
how much current is used to run the dual motor with its maximum torque and speed ?
RAJU SUNDAR these can easily pull 400A maybe more. If you ran these in sepex configuration you can manipulate field strength (current) and armature current independently. Almost as if you had two separate sized motors all in one.
But looks like they run the field in series with the armature.
I believe the correct response is: "A metric fuckton"
Thanks bro that was awesome
Absolutely awesome
how much to convert a f50 ford truck or an older E150 or E250 Ford Econoline? for towing an R V ?
Pretty sure you're gonna have to make up your mind what you want converted. To quote a job like that you actually have to do your due diligence. It would amount to quite a bit of work to produce a quote just to satisfy your curiosity.
I would assume the same thing the makers of this video probably did, that you dont intend to pay for that quote.
That's probably why no one ever responded to you.
What do you plan to use for a power source and how far do you want to drive? Rough numbers say a vehicle that size pulling a RV camper of any size is going to suck a KWH or so per mile which unless you want to only drive 30 - 40 miles before doing a heavy recharge cycle or have a unrealistically huge and expensive battery, your SOL on having a practical to use heavy duty electric towing vehicle.
Mike, I've a similar question for a GMC 3500. Thus far I can tell it would be well over $10k (and that's for only around 40 miles or so / low mileage range). IMO, if a few standard prototype models could be fitted, someone may have a profitable opportunity to restore old trucks (which need heavy pull power that many electric motors can provide anyway) with electric engine kits. If you find a reliable conversion company / near all inclusive kit for domestic trucks, please post a link for it. My guess is that the engine / drive shaft coupling may have have to vary but otherwise may parts could be the same.
We did it to school bus platform so Imagine it will similar. Not worth it imo. I cant remeber all the stats but it used 9 batterys with god knows how many cells. Each battery was $30,000. The range was only 75 miles. Charge time around 8 hours empty to full.
To be worth it needs 200-250 mile range and battery should be 1/3 of the price. Not counting controller cost, drive units, cooling and heating.
how much for this setup?
Very nice and thanks... Im contemplating a conversion on a older truck of mine. How do you maintain hydraulic pressure for brakes etc?
you guys ROCK!!!
will one motor produce 300hp ?
he said 400-600 so one motor is 200-300
have you though about adopting your systems to the Marine environment?, I have a 50' Cat which I'm trying to convert from diesel to electric, I haven't found anything this impressive for a vessel as large as mine, I guess my concerns would be how much power consumption do I need to consider and can it be charged via solar panels and wind turbines while cruising open waters, my intention is to eliminate the 2 diesel engines and maintain my gen set since it's already running most of the time. and the motor engines will only be used while coming to shore or in dead winds. it would be nice if you could consider branching out to the marine environment and support a large community of sailors
Thank you
Good idea, really. You don't need batteries, just replace the diesels with electric motors and get a larger genset, maybe one of the diesels. Otherwise you'd have the weight and space of one of the engines just in batteries -- your normal genset wouldn't be able to power motors strong enough to do much with that large a boat. You will already be reducing the power you have with electric motors to begin with, but should be adequate for docking. Just a few knots headway in a dead calm is better than nothing -- would be like running a pair of 50 hp outboards instead of your diesels though. Your boat was obviously built so it could cruise on the two engines if desired. Having an off-the-grid type solar system would probably take up too much room and weight. But if you really want something like that, just keep one of the engines to move the boat and replace your standard genset with batteries and solar/turbines to recharge. You only need 10-12 hours of battery power, and if you need/want to run AC or electric heat run the genset then.
skull2kool. i have the same type of question
Thats actually exactly what i was thinking
Power = power.
So what you need to know is how much torque do your engines produce at what rpm.
I've set up systems with 150hp motor at 460v 3phase ac. The motor weights right at 2000 pounds. But it's very torquey.
The amount of solar it would require to run that would cover acres of real estate that you wont have on the water.
You will need a genset around 150kw for a single motor like I described and a battery bank. I would recommend looking into ultracaps to help preserve the service life of a battery pack in this heavy of an application.
I would like to see EV west do more hacking of production drivetrains, all of this air-cooled dc stuff is neat but it's expensive and heavy
Great Job Guys...
Looking at the Warp 11 specs I see 135 ft/lb and 44hp at 76v and 452 amps. So how do you get from that to over 1000 ft/lb of torque and 600 hp? I understand it's two motors but even for one it's 135ft/lbs to 500 ft/lbs and 44hp to 300hp.Higher voltage and current?
By over voltage and allowing 2000 amps of current draw. That is how you turn a DC motor with weak specs into a tire shredding monster.
Btw, this is all possible with NO MODS on the motor.
DC motors show resistance at zero RPM equal to the winding resistance which is going to be pretty close to zero. So off the line your power supply will see a near short until things get spinning.
That, equates into as much magnetic force & therefore torque as you can generate for a short period of time without letting all the smoke out of the components.
Stalling an electric motor is a really effective way to cook it off.
Increasing the voltage increases torque at any RPM.
Your seeing the power tool companies do this now with the new dual voltage tools. They are making the battery packs go in series, via the controller I assume, when they need the torque.
So, nothing super special going on here. Just the rather impressive and not widely understood, in the car world, nature of electric motors.
Was curious about the same thing.
Hey!! so If I was to get a warp 9 and then create a over voltage mode ( is that what tesla ludicrous mode is?) I would be able to take it from 95kw and 220nm to something like 200 kw and 400+ nm torque?
what about a semi truck main 8000 lbs engine removed and replaced with a CUMMINS 5.9l diesel connected to a motor electric generator that produces current to 4 electric motors placed on drive wheels.
Check out Wrightspeed. If Im not mistaken they have some special turbo powered generator that provides power to electric motors for garbage trucks.
Would probably be less efficient than just leaving the original motor in. That cummins would be working really hard to provide power to motors that big.
@David -
Tesla was listening
A Cummins 5.9l wont be enough engine to drive the generator. That teensy weensy puny little thing will stall. Electric motors dont care. They will take however much power they need at any given load with zero concern for the supply.
Might consider a turbine powered genset for an application like this.
Instead of a bunch of small motors it might be better to match power output from original engine and sub in a single equivalent electric motor.
I will trade you my cummins 5.9 for motors controller and battery's,😀
Such a simple system!
What that's awesome man
How much does it cost for the basic whole kit for an e36?
From a person that has manufacturing experience, it will cost about $20.00 +/_ a couple of dollars to make the motor, Shipping and handling, a profit margin, suggested price, emmmm lets say $6000.00. On new ideas, people get really stupid and crazy, pricing themselves out of business. AC motors are much way to go with.
There isn't a BASIC WHOLE KIT for any specific vehicle. You have to build mounts and figure out battery packs and on and on and on
how well would that work in a 93 Ford F150?
Bush Imports half ton.
+Bush Imports 850 FOOT POUNDS of torque. = No problem
Thanks man.
perfect
Would blow the diff and bend the axles
Thanks for your good noledge share purposes
Thanks Very Good Video.