Fate/Stay Night Servants VERSUS Their Masters
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- Опубліковано 10 січ 2023
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Which fight would you like to see the most?
Muramasa Vs Shishou
for sure Illya
her ceiling is so high she could nuke most beasts from FGO and that isn't even overstating it.
ksticks are broken.
Can someone explain to me how Shouchirou just Destroyed Saber on their first encounter ?
@@ineedslim9265 He had Fists of the North Star thanks to Medea amping him up. He also was using his assassin training to hit vital points on Sabers body.
Muramasa vs Artoria, Ishtar vs Archer, Kama vs Gorgon
I have respect for all the masters who have the sheer balls to run the ones with a servant
Also I find this extremely funny but I just found out shirou's np is anti king I like to think this is because both he and muramasa have grudges against kings 🤴
Gilgamesh punching the air reading this rn
I wish Kirei rans ones with the Hassan of a Hundred faces.. he'd definitely win.
@@lordblackstar3272 it’s not anti king it’s just a trait muramasa has
@@wrought-ironheroEMIYA Look.. hear me out 💀
If Kirei force Gilgamesh to eat tofu he will win.
yep
cant argue with that
Kirei of Fate Kaleid maybe
Space Ishtar sending EMIYA to the shadow realm actually raises a question for me. Can any Servants outright delete EMIYA from the Throne like that guy who did it to himself?
The nature of deleting someone from the throne like romani did would outright require you to erase their existence from its entirety
The closest that anyone can get to that is Erice even as a human if she rips a servant saint graph apart you’d be left with a servant with no memory of the previous summon she killed them in.
Her servant form could maybe erase them given the wording
You can't, emiya is a counter guardian, he's basically cursed to be there forever
A Servant can be deleted from the Throne if :
- Alaya deletes them herself.
- They reach Nothingness, where their sense of self will be lost and they will be assimilated into the Root.
-A failsafe that allowed them to renounce their status as a Heroic Spirit.
Maybe the Servant Vessel but not the actual data of Emiya since other than Nameless, who's missing data in the MoonCell, Emiya's data is handled by Alaya as his from the Counter Force
Emyia getting hit with an attack half the size of the universe
15:04 “she’d still lose, she’d just lose better”💀💀💀
Artoria and Muramasa would be an awesome fight. I'd kill to see Artoria compliment Muramasa after a good fight.
I don't think she'd have the chance considering she'd be dead. But I see what you're saying
No matter who wins, each one would give their respect to the other
@@lastuchiha8603 I mean she technically outclasses Muramasa still so yeah… in game he is wayyyyy better than her but she’d just blast him in an actual fight. He’s better at making the swords rather than using them and also doesn’t have an answer to her Excaliblast or even her mana burst beams or bursts. He could possibly get in a lucky slash but her greater skill + Instinct cancels out his Karmic Eye enough where it would be difficult considering his agility being rank D. He would seriously have to outsmart her or catch her by surprise.
@@lastuchiha8603 you really forgot how broken excalibur is huh. Saber literally has the most powerful noble phantasm in the fate series.
@@dave.8 this isn't true at all, hell even in its first appearance it wasn't the strongest Noble Bhantasm being completely overpowered by EA, nowadays there are loads of noble phantasms stronger than excalibur even with all the seals removed.
Whoever put Space Ishtar instead of Archer Ishtar is INSANE.
You made a don’t sleep on Illya video and you’re telling me people are STILL sleeping on Illya?! How absurd.
@@theysisossenthime FGO illya is pretty good for an offensive caster tbh
@@theysisossenthime Yeah but we should never mix gameplay with actual lore
@@theysisossenthime I’m not sure what you’re talking about, but some servants in fate go are nowhere near as broken as they are stated and shown to be in the lore. Some of them are even flat out robbed like Tsiah said in his last video, if we let how good or bad they perform in gameplay determine their actual skill then you get inconsistencies in lore, like with Illya.
@@theysisossenthime Look at games like Dragon ball Fighterz where characters like Yamcha was running the scene in season 1. His gameplay was good but he actually sucks lore wise.
@@theysisossenthime I don’t think you’re comprehending what I’m telling you. It has nothing to do with lore accuracy, no matter how much the lore has changed Yamcha STILL canonically sucks.
Merlin: where's avalon?
Artoria: lost it in a ditch
Merlin: ah
Merlin's head: you fucking what?
Shocking news for me to learn that both Bazett and Kirei are now servants. They were OP already enough. I should've seen it coming. Still surprises me to no end.
Precisely, their bodies were being used as the containers of the fusion of deities and historic figures to exist in the human world.
I'd very much like to know what the person who decided that EMIYA vs Space Ishtar would be an even remotely fair fight. Or maybe they just hate EMIYA. Anyways, Artoria vs Muramasa is the most evenly balanced fight and I'd love to see them go at it.
Yeah Emiya vs the manifestation of the universe no offense to Archer but Thats way above his paygrade
Bruh, what are those commenters smoking? We literally needed our own space ishtar to beat space ishtar, hahaha
They really trying to see Emiya reduced to his spiritron components or something! lmaooo
Maybe they was thinking, since EMIYA is fighting in servant verse he'd have access to more weapons. Idk either because that's the only explanation I can come up with.
Servantverse is just on whole other level
Shirou: I don’t need a servant, I’m my own servant!
Archer & Muramasa: Are we a joke to you?
Rin: Wrong, you’re MY servant ❤️
To be honest I feel like FGO is forgetting Shirou on purpose (Archer doesn’t count).
If that’s the case they should really reconsider that.
Let's not forget with Gil vs Emiya, even the very slight one second 'charge time' delay of Gil's GoB was enough the give the much weaker overall Emiya the edge he needs. With the win being because he stopped Gil from pulling out Ea.
Charge times are important, and any version of Emiya has that together with versatility as his biggest perks.
One thing to remember about the Gil vs Emiya fight was that Gilgamesh being the arrogant king that he is. Never considered Shirou a threat. So he didn't use his Golden Armor that has taken blows from Excalibur (Although from the original Shirou route) He also hesitated while pulling out Ea as he didn't see Shirou as someone worthy to use it against. That combo was the only thing that stopped Gilgamesh from winning that fight. And even then Shirou thought he would lose if he gave Gilgamesh any time to recoup after cutting off his arm.
A serious Gil wouldn't lose to any form of Emiya. And even that fight they had was inconclusive thanks to the grail trying to consume Gilgamesh.
Shirou beat a no armor original VN gil. Strange fake gave gill a ton of new broken shit like the lightning shields, and given that emiya is a servant I doubt gill decides to go no armor vs him.
Yo these two smoking bro in the Prisma illya verse Shiro loses the battle when Ea was pulled so as long as it isn't pulled then it's safe to say that Shiro can beat Gilgamesh and by the way guys that was with armor it was class card though so it might not be there full strength.
@omariwashington2570 That's like saying if Artoria/Altria doesn't use Excalibur, she will lose to X person. Ea is Gilgamesh's signature weapon. And Emiya has no answers for it. The only thing Emiya actually can counter is Gate of Babylon while in UBW.
@TheBloodyNights Gilgamesh almost never uses EA unless he's about to lose, and it's just not characteristic for him to use it usually.
Kirchstaria running the ones with Caenis to decide who's top and bottom is iconic
Kirch is a certified Bottom, Caenis eats his Cryptussy.
💀
Saber Artoria ; Shirou, food🥹🥹🥹
Muramusa Shirou; Best I could do are rice balls and 🍙 🙃🙃🙃
17:30 That sounded MAD dirty 🤣
The thing is in illya vs herc.. herc just picks illya up puts n shoulder and anyone that opposes them gets the bonk
They are so cute
2:10 clean edit right there.
Really depends who vs who. Some of the incarnations that the Masters undergo in FGO are ridiculously OP. Muramasa in particular was able to pull off an incredibly ludicrous feat of swordsmanship by cutting through a dimension to land a blow on the BBEG.
Even the sword that can cut dimensions and time deem to call failure. Heck his np alone can cut though fate, time and concept.
Plus in the novel i remember read something he beat the god of Smith in greek hephaestus and a titan atlas
Plus, you have to take location into account. Remember servants get a increase in power, depending on where they are. such as the case with Vlad, when he was summoned in Romania. so, Muramasa, being summoned in Japan, would give him a huge advantage in power just from being Japanese. Add in the god power and I just can’t see saber winning in any scenario
Space Ishtar vs. Emiya... yes seems like a totally fair fight
It would be interesting to see if Gilgamesh from prototype could have handled any of the other close quarters servants and kirei. He was giving Arthur a hard time, fighting in a sinilar style to Emiya with ranged attacks thrown into the melee. And Arthur is on the same power level as Artoria, who fought base gil,.
Saber always gets cucked in holy grail wars. All of her masters are like a AAA battery for something that needs a nuclear generator to run efficiently
Ayo real question, in Heroic spirit Emiyas original universe, who did Rin summon? Is it a paradox?
I believe it was supposed to be a shielder servant, the one who originally had Rho Ais.
I wondered about that for a while too, it seems Emiya was still Rin's Servant because the Throne of Heroes exists beyond time
EMIYA
the throne of heroes exists outside of time and space, so it will always be able to summon any servant that it has registered
that's how it works on paper
when you think about it, you can poke a lot of holes on it
but it is what it is
One timeline where Rin didn't summon Archer. Which in turn sealed the "original" Shirou's path as a bitter Counter Guardian. Which in turn allowed himself to be summoned as an Archer for Rin in another timeline. Which in turn kick-started the F/SN world line.
Archer EMIYA is revealed to come from an alternate Fate route. So it is likely Archer was still Rin’s Servant. Archer’s identity is never revealed in Fate route.
Q: What was the Fifth Grail War that Heroic Spirit Emiya experienced in his lifetime like? Was the Archer summoned there also Emiya?
Nasu Kinoko: It was a world where the conditions at the beginning of the war were mostly the same, but something was missing. Shirou summoned Saber and fought until the end, didn't save Saber's heart but understood her, and they destroyed the grail together and parted... that's the image I have.
Takeuchi Takashi: Ahh, so something like a Fate route Good End we didn't make in the game?!
Nasu: Yeah, probably. After that, it is believed he cooperates with Rin who survived, and heads to London.
Ngl Prismaverse Illya does sound like one of the strongest Fate protagonists out there (idk how she compares with Sieg though)
Personally think she would manhandle sieg, he does have good balance of offense and defense options due to having seigfried heart and does sieg have Achilles shield? If yes maybe I'd give a tie. Cause illya is not like gonna be one shotted at close range due to her having cards that are good at melee range.
Also don't know if she has Avalon or not as saber
Couple years ago me and my friends did a scaling for all the protags and after about 5 minutes we all agreed Illya vs Seig, Illya Takes the Cake and it probably the strongest when we got so far
@@flashtheshapeshafter yeah i agree
Even at full potential with his dragon form Sieg still loses since if she had such a card she could get a fucking Servant with a dragon killing feat and beat him and even forgetting that possibility she does just have even more raw firepower then him and we saw during the Apoc event his dragon form can be harmed by the likes of Semiramis's Hanging Garden's which Illya has a good number of Class Cards that could output the damage and keep up with a flying dragon and even base form has some stupid high fire power.
Magical Girls are kind of all just like that. In terms of raw destructive power in most shows.
Do not Sleep on Cursed Arm!
Firstly, your biggest push to Zouken was his access to Medea's corpse because... Cursed Arm Killed her! In any other situation outside of the fixed route of Heavens feel, Cursed Arm and Zoukan are somewhat fairly matched.
Second, Zoukan is not immortal, he simply has the ability to transfer his consciousness to specific "node" type insects and one happens to be his real body. This means his is killable.
Thirdly, Zoukan has no offensive way to kill Cursed arm, other than possessing nearby corpse. (Likely killed by others as we know even novice mages can escape zoukans insects)
Lastly, both characters have been shown to retreat if in danger of losing. In the case of Zoukan he retreats to a different worm body. But in Cursed Arm's case he can retreat anywhere and heal rapidly. That means zoukan has to finish him before he runs out of "Node" insects. We know he can because they starve and they need to be bred. If these two necessities are disrupted zoukan will be operating on an insect deficit and soon he will run out.
So retreating to his lair, is not a definite win for zoukan, infact his lair, is exactly the place Cursed Arm needs to attack.
Ps: I'm a Cursed Arm Hassan Stan
I dont know what they were smoking when they put emiya against space ishtar it must have been good
Emiya fans with their d eating habits again
@@averagejpopenjoyer3017 If FGO ever introduce Nameless Red which is the Space Version of Emiya, he might have a chance since everyone apparently is OP in that Universe.
EMIYA Vs. Space Ishtar? Someone must be on perc when they match those two up.
Don't sleep on angra mainyu video
What’s not to sleep on? He sucks, and he’s not afraid to tell you either.
@@alsosprachzarathustra4756 he really doesn't that was an extremely weekend version of himself. Trust me he is a beast candidate for a reason
@@lordblackstar3272 Are we talking about the Servant or Angra as a whole?
@@lordblackstar3272 Angra Mainyu as a Servant. As he states himself is the worst of the worst.. and the weakest of servants.. but he has the title of being the "best at killing humans." He is behind Type Mars & Venus I believe in that regard... he was never nerfed as a "Servant." He literally is just the worst Servant.. in terms of Servants...
Now corrupting the Grail although was impressive.. it isn't consistent.
@@lordblackstar3272 If his opponent is a human, he's the third best at killing them per lore. Against a servant? Nah. Besides Angra himself saying he sucks, Illya says that when he was summoned, he died super fast because of how pathetic of a servant he was. FGO didn't make him a loser for no reason. He actually sucks according to canon.
Great idea for a video, I agree mostly with what you said but I do disagree with Artoria’s skill level. In Fate Extella Link, Artoria fought against Charlemagne, Nero and Tamamo while they were being supported from Hakuno and they weren’t able to push her back at all. Though it is likely that they didn’t use there strongest noble phantasms.
Don't SLEEP on Mash Kyrielight?
Yeah a deserved ones
Though scaling mash is complicated due to fgo context: It's rarely one on one fights, the master, despite being talked down by people in the story a lot is a good tactical help and can summon shadow servants(how much it helps depend on the case but still), and mash resolve and power evolves in the main story chapter.
Still the duo has good inarguable feats, like taking down demon pillars, blocking crazy attacks, etc... and we at least know the groups so the breakdown can be done in some capacity. Finally Camelot is probably where she hit her peak.(in the lostbelt she is weakened, however in her own words she say she is almost back to her former strentgh at the end of lostbelt 5.
I sleep with her. Yeah she definitely deserves that video. Thanks for carrying me since the beginning playing the game
Thanks for this.
An interesting thought experiment.
What I've seen so far with debating vid that include Gilgamesh in a fight with anyone it just debating whether he is serious in the fight or his ego get in the way 😂
amazing vid i always look forward to your vids
Respect shirou because even with alter ego muramasa most of the abailities come from him. Karmic Vision is his Eye of the Mind and Tsumukari Muramasa is only possible in decent ammount of time because of projection (in game represented by tameshi mono) and the reality Marble.
Avalon makes Saber immortal, remember Lion King Artoria, she became immortal cause Bediviere never got rid of Excalibur + Avalon and it's literally stated as well.
She can also survive world deleting stuff so no one can beat her technically.
As Seth said, artoria at full capacity could arguably be one of the strongest characters in fiction
Problem is she won't beat him by the logic since you can steal Avalon. We have seen this done and why she was put in the situation at the Battle of Camlann in the first place. She also can't attack him from Avalon so it's not like she's going to kill em while she's using Avalon. She can heal yes but we don't know how fast or by how much.
Can it heal a chopped off arm? We know he physically could chop an arm off but not so much if he could do it in a fight against her wanting to dodge and her bailing out with a Mana Burst. We know those like Kojirou could be fast enough in the right circumstances but it's not like Muramasa can replicate that speed unless we talking him copying Sasaki's sword and gaining the skill to use Tsubame Gaishi. Which is possible.
This is so fun I love it
I love that Kirei as Rasputin just uses Rocket Launchers and dual wields SMGs for long range. My man took a page out of Kiri's book.
Great video!
I disagree with the Ishtar vs emiya but everything else is fine. Tiamat children are far more terrifying than anything emiya faced in stay night. And Ishtar was holding her own against them. Ubw takes a lot of mana so it’s not like he can use for to long either. Out classes him in every way accept close combat and that’s still a toss up because emiya is slow compared to other servants. His most notable feat was taking hercs lives but he even states on many occasions he could not defeat herc completely so he isn’t really much of a god slayer and don’t get me started on his fight with CU. I’m telling you Ishtar scales much higher and harder
I actually Cu, Think Cu Noble Phantasm can Kill kill Herc mutiple times,
regardless of of God Hand, because Gae Bolg, doesn't care about its effects.
@@abbadon9693 Dude cu in stay night does not scale to Karna your talking about his other iterations in stay night CU has stated he isnt close to his full power because his master is limiting him. Which is why I said Emiya isn't that strong he couldn't beat Cu even with the handy cap. Same applies to Herc he was stated to be weaken by their master. Ishtar is a divine heroic spirit who was not held back. The only win he has to his name is a human and Medea who only died because she had to protect her master in the light novel, he couldn't even beat assassin. Tiamat children were as strong as divine spirits. MERLIN is also grand level servant stop sleeping on him he's leagues ahead of the artiora(shirou) we say in stay night. like Ishtar shows way more convincing feats than Emiya IN STAY NIGHT not the other ones obviously. Emiya was running thought out stay night Ishtar was boxing with second strongest beast at the time and still top ten maybe 5 strongest foes Chaldea has faced. if we make a switch Ishtar would be just fine in the holy grail war in stay night while Emiya would be useless in Babylonia.
@@amaridawkins64 In all of Archer's fights in Stay Night he was either handicapped by a permanent injury from Saber or he was fighting while holding back, you say he couldn't defeat a handicapped Cu but he never even went all out against him, if Archer doesn't use UBW it means he isn't being as serious, hell, in all of his Cu fights he never even used an NP that isn't Kanshou/Bakuya and Rho Aias.
Tell me you somehow don't know that Archer either wasn't going all out or he wasn't 100% while also not understanding his powers without telling me.
"He even states on my occasions he could not defeat Herc completely"
Where?? You just came up with that, he never said that.
Either you completely don't know what you're talking about or you just hate Emiya altogether.
All of these fights would be awesome, more so if there was a narrative reason for them to happen
Good video man
Melusine manhandles Muramasa and Cu Odin combined, i dont think he'll even reach 50% of chance of beating Artoria. Excalibur is one thing, and then there's Avalon. It's gonna be a mismatch.
Yeah tbh I don’t know why the video hypes him up so much. I never trust any VN or anime “feat” nowadays cause it all depends on plot with feats and we’ve seen tactics level the playing field so if Muramasa somehow won a grail war all by himself it’s probably because of tactical ability and weakness exploitation and not sheer power. His agility is rank D while hers is B and she can remove her armor to be even faster. Plus her strength is A and she can increase it to an unknown degree for a single hit like she did with Berserker or shoot it as a beam. All of these things go against Muramasa since he can’t counter any of these things and his best chance of fighting her is to spam his NP but apparently he will die if he uses it so yeah even without Avalon she’s gonna put him down
Melusine is just that strong though, Melusine would manhandle Saber too.
@@radmandan773 without Avalon yes, Melusine will murder Artoria. She's the strongest FK and it doesn't count her Calamity Form which is overkill.
Muramasa in shimousa said it himself that he is really not a fighter and more of a blacksmith. Sure he got some op NP but if you want to compared his combat skill with saber + excalibur and avalon i would say saber > muramasa, many people hyped him up just because his np is broken not based on his overral skill.
@@lesterism
That strongest fairy knight of yours is matched by Percival and fairy gawain who is on par with gawain and lancelot, she ain't murdering artoria in her fairy knight form.
Heck artoria was keeping up with a supersonic noble phantasm level jet and doing just fine on foot in the water. Melusine considers moving at mach 2 incredible. She ain't killing artoria in CQC
I am surprised that you did not do a video on a LB 5.5 version of Fate Stay Night Masters with Casters or with a different class.
8:44 that's not a fight-
If I might comment in Arturia vs Muramasa fight, I'd say it all comes to wether she has Avalon or not, with Excalibur barely even being a factor.
On stats and skills the two are mostly even I'd say. Saber is stronger than him do to Prana Burst, but Muramasa is likely more skilled and has Sword Testing to close the difference. She's faster, but he is the more durable of the two. She has Instinct, but he has Eye of Karma which lorewise is really just Shirou's/EMIYA'S Eye of the Mind and Clairvoyance mixed with Muramasa's afinity for Karma. Excalibur can oneshot him, but then again Tsumukari can likely do the same to her.
Ignoring Avalon, I'd say that the deciding factor is Muramasa"s anti-king abilities. Because of historical anecdotes, Muramasa has an absolute advantage over the Tokugawa who were the defacto rulers of Japan. This translated to giving him a general anti-king skill which, while not as powerful as against the Tokugawa, would still give him the conceptual advantage over her.
However, that all changes if she has Avalon, which turns any fight against Saber literally unfair, for ANYONE. Because Avalon is invincible. Or at the very least, we have yet to see anything in the entire franchise which can beat it. Like, seriously, for FGO fans, this thing is Lord Camelot times 100 + one of the best and most efficient continuous healing effects in the franchise.
Tldr; if Arturia doesn't have Avalon, Muramasa has conceptual advantage so he probably takes most of them. If she does have Avalon, Saber wins near 100% of the time because that thing is more broken than Ea.
I'm not really convinced he's more skilled tho.
1) Muramasa was a swordsmith, not a warrior, he doesn't bring much in that department.
2) Saber actually has more battle experience than Shirou and Muramasa. Combined. And proper fight training since she was a kid, certainly better than Shirou's.
3) Most importantly, the fact that we almost never see her skills showcased because the story requires her, as the protagonist's servant, to get sometimes (temporarily) overwhelmed by opponents for dramatic purposes, doesn't mean she is less skilled. Basically, if somebody doesn't do something that doesn't mean they CAN'T necessarily do it, especially when there's all reason to believe they can.
I think this idea originates from two general misconceptions. One is the stereotype of the "katana-wielding" warrior, which is overall depicted as flashier, thus giving the impression "must be skilled" (this doesn't apply specifically to Fate, it's a widespread concept). The second is Artoria's (or better Excalibur's) raw power being so outrageous (in a positive way) that it overshadows (and most of the time renders useless) any feat of skill she might pull off.
@@Luca-yb4sh Look, unlike every other static in Fate, combat skill, with exception of skills like Eye of the Mind, is one of the few things not quantified. As such, the only thing we can rely on is showcase. And from what I've, while undoubtably skilled and trained, Saber tends to rely on Instinct during battle while abusing her broken strenght and Prana Burst Skill to simply overpower her opponents. And we've actually seen instants of Shirou actually outfighting Saber despite his lower physical abilities.
Regardless of whatever things should be according to your view, the way thins are as we've been showned is that a fully realized Shirou's martial abilty surpasses Arturia's.
@@Luca-yb4sh
Muramasa has more skill because of Shirou's fighting experience and the Gods he has mixed in. We see how unskilled Artoria fights as she relied more on raw power differences compared to most enemies she fought even in life as even with training from Merlin she preferred to just rely on brute force and her natural abilities. We see Diarmud beating her in a contest of skill as well as Cu who fought a weaker version of her but is comparable to Diarmud in skill. We know someone can dodge her Excaliblast and Cu/Diarmud could have done so if she activated it even with charge time. A lance just keeps her out of range for the most part and Muramasa shows the ability to make a washing pole sword like Kojirou and why he was also able to go toe to toe with Artoria and be an issue for her even though he's even weaker then those two in durability he's still stupid fast so even he could possibly dodge Excalibur blast but then lose access to Tsubame Gaeshi because the terrain would have been fucked up.
Muramasa's affinity for swords he honed from years of forging, knowing how to make a sword cut good, be balanced and good to hold in your hands and general practice swinging them to test them out combined with Shirou and the other two Gods mixed in him battle experience gives him those superior skills. This isn't even going into if he could produce the same skills Shirou could gain from weapons he traced since we see Muramasa can Trace weapons because of Shirou and has a variant of UBW that is turned into a sword similar to how Babbgae Reality Marble is his armor or how EMIYA Alter can summon UBW inside a person shot by his bullet he centers his UBW around Tisah said she has a variant version of the attack she can use to power up a slash similar to Arondight Overload. We also see that Gil can do Kojirou's reality cutting feat better by just pulling out his scythe and being even faster then Gae Bolg changing direct or Kojirou cutting because he had the attack come right into her neck already and didn't need travel time like the other two and why she could dodge and her Instincts kicked in to tell her to do so.
Didn’t you forget muramasa np it literally cut through concepts which avalon is a concept he hit her with that it’s over
@@kylesky74 Yes. A conceptual Last Phantasm that can literally defend against anything, surpassing even True Magic. I don't care what kind of conceptual advantages Tsumukari Muraramasa has over conceptual defenses. Avalon grants LITERAL INVINCIBILITY. TRUE invincibility. Muramasa is not getting passed that, though he probably gets closer than most.
The only one I completely disagree with is the Gil and Kirei one because it's been stated that Gil was an expert swordsman. He always lost from arrogance and kirei's win condition was close range
Rasputin pulling out a rocket launcher out of no where, that somehow can match gate of babylon.
Medea and Kuzuki:
Medea: Got the pounding I so throughly deserved.
In a one v one fight Artoria with Avalon can't be defeat at all in term a just throwing the hands and weapons.
Adding magic in the fight that depend who she fighting tbh.
Avalon as a passive that heal her from literally any injuries besides decapitation.
Even if Muramasa Senji as the ability to bypass Avalon main function which is a hot take in of itself (because even EA can't go through Avalon.) She can just heal from the wound as long as her head/brain not destroyed.
Another thing to point out causality weight does in fact matter when a clash of NPs are use against each other.
Same for home turf advantage boost (Example: Herc in Greece that is a instant win for him)
Exactly, idk why people come up with all these weird things about Avalon that clearly aren’t true. I’ve seen people say she can’t move while she’s using it or that it literally teleports her to the realm as if it’s a portal but even in its description the scabbard coats her and her sword and she is conceptually in the realm of Avalon. She is still physically where she was before and just from the VN and anime it’s clear the creators were trying to elaborately explain she’s invincible with it without it interfering with her offensive capabilities. It wouldn’t be the ultimate defense if it was anything short of invincibility without drawbacks. It makes sense too that she wouldn’t have it, it needed to be gone in order to make sure she didn’t just destroy the grail war single handedly. The only other character who is continuously as nerfed as Saber is Medusa with the whole Shinji thing (still though, Shirou’s penchant for putting himself in danger is arguably as bad since it forced a lot of fights). Even with the Shadow she was slower and with a lower instinct traded for fatter mana burst beams. A faster Artoria with proper mana, Instinct, and Avalon would be way more lethal than any form we’ve seen her so far. I’d pay big bucks to see her and Gawain vs Vortigern
What people forgetting is muramasa np cut through karma, fate, and concepts. Avalon is a conceptual weapon it could theoretically cut through it.
@@kylesky74 Well it’s specifically a conceptual defense though and if the highest order at that. Most likely it cannot since not even the 5 True magics cannot break through (that means someone actually tried and it did not happen and Avalon remains unscratched too) and I imagine his sword can cut through pretty much everything besides it. If his NP could cut through it then no concept is safe though and then theoretically he could sever peoples conceptual defensive NPs including Karna’s armor and through Godhand too, even probably being able to slash through and sever people from their NPs since NPs aren’t the genuine artifact but simply ethereal forms of the artifacts so they’re basically ether shaped by concepts and all he would need to do is sever the concept that shapes the ether. But all that is unlikely especially just for your normal servant. I’d say he could probably slice bypass every defense EXCEPT Avalon. That means he is actually a better match for Karna, Siegfried, Hercules, and Achilles more than others are but outside of his gimmick that counters people who seem to depend on those conceptual defenses he is still not actually that powerful and just super cool. His parameters aren’t amazing and his skills are only a step above Emiya. He can still use his many swords and control them telekinetically though and judging from his NP animation he likely can use his reality marble still, after all he is in the body of Shirou using the additional abilities of Muramasa. He probably also has the ability to use his NP defensively and attacks in half possibly using anime logic lol
you missed emiya v ereshgikal but i imagine emiya will probably still win but maybe harder fight.
also i think saber v muramasa could go to muramasa because if she has to completely commit to avalon and not do anything then muramasa could just damage her enough to force avalon usage and she has to stop or slow down to use avalon then he could get ready to use his NP. also he could cut her head off and i believe that’s the only way to beat saber. so i think it’s 50/50 on how the fight actually goes
About EMIYA vs Space Ishtar
How about with Nameless' Mythological Mystic Code of Wrought Iron from CCC? Although Different Heroic Spirits, he's still honestly "him" with EMIYA's abilities just amped up even though he's a culmination of Nameless Heroic Spirits (like Shimousa Muramasa and fused Muramasa), Dude can take on CCC BB and Kiara which is stated to be 8D
But really, the dude who paired them up is stupid, i feel like its also the same dude who paired up Medusa and Kama instead of well.. Parvati to make it a bit fair
Shirou as muramasa beats saber
So does shirou as archer
i wanna know what they were smoking in that thread to even consider space ishtar vs emiya as a fight
8:40 I mean, does the question "Could Emiya 1v1 a living Death Star?" even need an answer? I like the dude, but c'mon
Talking of caster made me think about the abridged emiya saying, YOU WANT TO TALK ABOUT PENETRATION! And then kebabs the woman
For Muramasa vs Artoria I think it comes down to Muramasa hits harder than Artoria, but her defence is better than his attack and her attack is better than his defence
@@mirzapramudya1580 Imo, it comes down to which one of them is faster, since their power is probably high enough to one shot each other's defence. But if one can hit the other first then they win.
@@mirzapramudya1580 ppl completely forgot he'll die if Muramasa uses his own NP twice, while on the other hand Artoria can spam hers. Also Artoria is more faster than the legendary blacksmith.
I think Artoria will win, assuming that he can't kill her with his NP while she's using Avalon, I don't think he's skilled, he's just a blacksmith with Shirou's powers, there's an official manga where he fought Yagyu Munenori in CQC and he lost. I dunno if it's canon though. Fate / Grand Order Comic Ala Carte PLUS! SP Showdown!
@@radmandan773 I mean its a bit more than that, he technically counts as a divine being due to the gods inside him. The NP thing is pretty much it. If Saber can survive 1 of Muramasa's NPs then its GG she wins. He'll neveer get through Avalon if he can't the first time.
@@joecroft4274 Saber is faster, hits harder and has almost every other advantage, EMIYA/Muramasa in general is just drastically overrated.
Yeah, Cu isn't losing to Bazett. Its not like Bazett gaining enough physical stats to compare to servant level means he can't fight her anymore. The guy is still a demigod who's one of the fastest lancers period and trained under Scathach. Their rune magic level isn't even that different even when she's getting boosted to servant level since he also has powerful ancient rune magic. I see you trying to bring up his runes from heaven's feel under the circumstances when they specifically didn't work in that one scenario, but that was just that one scenario. Bazett in that same situation wouldn't be able to use her runes either since the shadow absorbs magic.
It'll all come right back to Gae Bolg vs Fragarach and result in a double kill. Cu also knows his master too, so its not as though he can't outwit her in combat either. Battle may be circumstantial, but Cu honestly has a better advantage in that fight against her.
Even with equal stats, Cu is just still way stronger than Bazett, I started playing Hollow Ataraxia a few days ago and when I saw how she killed Saber I just went to reddit to see how the fuck that happened and man I've seen some of the worst wanking ever, like Bazett is now one of the strongest Fate characters ever when literally all of her "power" is an item that can literally be stolen from her.
Cu doesn't even have to fight, he just has to steal her Fragarach and boom, Bazett literally can't do shit about anything and has to accept the L.
@@thegamerfe8751 literally he explains how to beat Fragarach. Its so easy.
Just don't use an NP against her. She can't access its full power if she doesn't use it against a strongest attack. Not only that, she has limited ammo for Fragarach and while she's a very strong mage, she's not high level heroic spirit tier outside of Fragarach.
Cu could just beat her in a regular fair fight. The only reason why he fought her with his NP because Gae Bolg is more than just an attack. There's meaning to using Gae Bolg on Bazett in FHA.
Yeah you can literally kill Cu before he uses Gae Bolg and the attack still exists anyway.
@@thegamerfe8751 just to further add on to this.
Bazett in FGO is fused with Mananaan, the divine spirit that made Fragarach. Plus, she's now a pseudo servant, so she can pull higher physical stats compared to when she was human. She can statistically compare to servants in straight fist fights.
But the problem is none of that changes that Cu and Bazett would still end up resolving the fight with Gae Bolg vs Fragarach, which would end in a mutual kill. What would matter at that point are external elements to the story for the fight, circumstances and how well either of them know each other.
There's also the issue that Cu is bullshittingly fast and has a two meter long spear that Emiya has shown is very very difficult to overcome. Even when Saber clashed with him, she still couldn't score a single blow on Cu. Bazett would have to close that gap with her fists, unless she summons the water horses in which those are clearly not going to hit him. Any large aoe spells aren't going to hit a guy as fast as Cu, and even if she covers an entire battle arena, Cu can make that 18 rune barrier that could block a great NP.
Tldr; fight too inconclusive. Depends on writers to choose who wins based on circumstances for fight.
3:09
So you mean something like a EXCALI *poke* ?
(FSN UBW Abridged joke :D)
you telling me someone had the gall to say Emiya vs Space Ishtar? The one that holds a Universe inside of her?
So, about the Medusa fight. What if you used a different Sakuraface? Like Parvati?
Kojirou vs Medea vs Kuzuki was what i was waiting for ngl. But Kuzuki doesnt have any corresponding pseudo servant
In a 3 way free for all brawl Medea stomps. Her generic beam spam attacks are Rank A attacks, a single hit from just 1 would kill either Kojiro or Kuzuki.
@@Cliffy1616 but if kuzuki can go near to her is the contrary actually because even rin was able to beat up medae just by pure strenght and since kuzuki is specialized in close combat i think the win is of kuzuki so basically if medea have more distance she win if kuzuki is near to her kuzuki win
@@massimilianoreali4398 no. Rin needed to Reinforce her self with Magic to be able to kick Medea out of the Air.
Kuzuki cannot do the same. Kuzuki would no longer have Medea’s support obviously and cannot use any magecraft at all so would be a normal person.
He could likely still hit her pretty hard as he’s an OP assassin, enough to take her off her feet if she was careless, but I highly doubt he’d be strong enough to deal any real lasting damage.
And again Medea can call her rain of light beam spam almost instantly so Kuzuki wouldn’t even be able to get close enough anyway. Or she can summon dragon tooth warriors that he’ll never be able to break through.
The only way Kuzuki would stand even a minuscule chance would be if the battle started with Medea literally within Kuzuki’s reach and even then it’s still not at likely. And that’s giving Kuzuki a large handicap so isn’t really fair.
@@Cliffy1616 i had forgotten that the boost was made by medea but i think with the boost he can beat her if him was near
@@massimilianoreali4398 yeah if he’s got Medea’s boost he can take her in CQC. But that’s an odd scenario as why would she boost him if she’s gotta fight him?
I think there is no evidence of shirou/muramasa being more skilled than Artoria. As a blacksmith he has however very impressive feats, and about Shirou, he defeated a version of Saber that probably was not expecting to loose, and was nerfed with a lowered rank in luck, Agility and instinct than normal Artoria. So in close combat she would have advantage in power and skill, but of course it does not mean that Muramasa in his most powerfull version would not be an incredible dificult oponent especially being powered by some Gods. So, you're right, it'd be an epic fight.
"Defeated a version of Saber that probably was not expecting to loose, and was nerfed with a lowered rank in luck, Agility and instinct than normal Artoria."
With this quote, an argument can be made that she's still less skilled than him because in order to beat him she has to have better stats. I mean yeah she probably is just the better swordsman than him but I doubt she's more skilled than him in general, Alter's stats are still much better than EMIYA's too, EMIYA's only stat he has higher is his C rank agility compared to Salter's D rank agility
@@radmandan773 Part of what measure a servant's power in general is every stat. However, in this case I mean that having the agility and instinct nerfed, allows the opponent to take her by surprise, I never said she needs them to defeat Shirou, it is just that the nerf allowed Shirou to have a chance. The nasuverse works in a really particular way, so several factors such as the field, compatibilities, stats, can make a big difference.
Well it's more she doesn't have skill but Instinct. Instinct gives he a sense of what she should do while Muramasa has a similar logic do to his Aesthetic of Swords skills where he just knows how swords work and physically is able to swing a sword good without being a trained swordsman. Merlin taught Artoria sword play but the difference is we have seen she has underestimated foes like the video Tisah did about her fight with Diarmud. She would rather brute force things then use outright sword skills. Then you had her fight against Cu where we see Cu was better but Instinct kept her alive and he could have killed her but Kirei pulled him back. Even weakened by being Shirou being her Master the Diarmud fight still shows someone like Cu in terms of skills and abilities could take her even at her full power.
Muramasa is actually getting combat experience from Shirou and the Gods he was summoned with in this case. This combined with Muramasa's godly understanding of swords and how best to swing it along with making magic swords he probably legit is just the better swordsman actually.
@@RavenCloak13 So you´re telling me that Artoria, someone who was trained specifically to use a sword, has no skill with the word and can only fight because of instinct. That makes no sense, but ok, I understand when people see things only as black or white, for you the only options for a servant are to have skill or not, it's not like there are different levels of skill achieved for different type of servants with different styles. Just in order to wank the character you like, you just say that someone that was defined as a master swordman, has no skill with the sword, that´s at least, interesting. I guess if lore and VS discussions were only performed for people who understand the lore and the characters, it´d be too fun to be real.
@@carlosdiazrodriguez6847
No, your trying to wank someone who was wanked to death but forgot the context of it. You forget most of the people she fought in life were fodder or didn't use skill but raw power to fight. Your also just leaving out the part I said she likes to brute force opponents.
Just because she trained with the sword all her life doesn't mean she actually needed to use much skill to beat people weaker then her when it was easier just to go for overpowering. When testing other people out most of the time the other people she fought were straight up more skilled. Diarmud, Cu, Kojirou, even Kuzuki even if he was being boosted was actually more skilled because she wasn't used to fighting some fucker who could get past her sword and used hand to hand combat. Give Kuzuki a stronger body like a Servant and he probably could fight her well even when not gimped by Shirou.
She can use a sword but not as well as someone who is summoned combined with the knowledge of two swordsmiths of legend, and two dudes that also hand combat knowledge from years of training and one was a God on top of that. Hell, the other God Muramasa was fused with was not only a forged God but one that also fought as well.
So yes, in terms of actual skill Artoria isn't anywhere on the level of someone whose combined basically 4 lifetimes of gathered knowledge from different backgrounds and it's more she competes because of raw abilities she has combined with her training.
Learn to read.
I think Emiya Assassin vs Saber would be a pretty ineresting encounter.
Meanwhile sasaki sleep well
I agree with pretty much agree with all these outcomes and you make good points. But here’s a better question for my fate fans.
All the Fate/SN Masters & Servants teams/duos vs all the Fate/Apocrypha teams. Let’s keep it simple and only say the Black Faction for now. Who side you got? Place your bets now.
Saber: Artoria would be in a difficult position against Siegfried as she is part-dragon. Shirou would massacre that fat fuck Musik guy.
Archer: Depends on how Emiya would deal with Chiron, Chiron is extremely deadly, so it could go both ways. Rin would break that paraplegic girl in half.
Lancer: Depends on how strong Vlad III is, it could go both ways with Cu even with the fame boost in Romania. Bazett would kill both that Nazi prick and also Vlad III with Fragarach.
Rider: Again, Medusa is the better fighter, however Alstolfo is extremely tricky with a bag of surprises as weapons. Sakura would again just kill that silver-haired bitch.
Caster: This one is harder, since if Avicebron activates his NP, then game over for Medea. Kuzuki would snap the neck of that kid though.
Assassin: Kojiro soloes Jack the Ripper, though maybe Cursed-arm would have trouble. Medea or Zouken would kill that insane woman.
Berserker: Not even a fight, Heracles is so above Frankenstein that it's not even funny. Illya would also kill that nerd too.
Kirei and Gil would probably solo the whole Black Faction.
Complete sweep for FSN crew, believe it or not.
Fate/SN because gilgamesh could absolutely destroy every servant on black by himself without being crippled by a master.
This also applies to heracles as you need A rank noble phantasms to kill him, and they do not have enough. If the entire fate/sn master and servants teamed up and just protect illya, cant do much.
Vlad's noble phantasm only can do 1 or 2 lives. (Legend of Dracula as Kaliziki Bey is C)
Astolfo No A rank noble phantasms
Fran Same
Avicebron 1 or 2 lives at best (his giant golem noble phantasm)
Jack: 0
Siegfried: 1 (Balmung)
Chiron: may be able to take out 1 to 3 lives depending on how well he does since he taught heracles
Still not enough to take out heracles.
I think vs red faction is more fair, since that's where the op side actually is (karna, achilles, etc. Also, father son rematch)
Hey ya my man, can you pleaaaase do Oberon Vortigern's lore and abilities (or even don't sleep on Oberon, would be hella fun seeing you comparing him to Merlin)
I searched for good videos about him on YT, but nobody really moved their ass to talk about him. I also don't see videos about him on your channel, which is kiiiinda sus
My only 2 thoughts on this was if gill launches his gate above the mud so it’s traveling with not against it he should come out on top and 2. I’m going end of the show prisms and saying she only loses is she decides to run the square with herc and not use a single ranger attack
Shirou is plot powered shonen ofc he's going to be a great fighter lol the power of plot demands it 😎
Zelretch and his broken 2nd magic kaleido sticks.
Great topic for discussion! Haven't seen the video so thats my prediction on pairings and outcomes:
1)Muramasa Shiro or Card Install Shiro vs Saber - he bodies her HARD. She is pretty bad with swords and not really fast in servant form, she cant spam Excalibur blast and to charging it take some time. Muramasa Shiro would just cut through her defences and Card Install Shiro would outskill.
2) EMIYA vs Ishtar(pseudo-servant) - the same thing, he outskills and her only chance of winning is her Phantasm, but unlike Excalibur blast it is not very small and can track. Its still takes a lot of time to charge and EMYIA can use UBW, so its more of a 75/25, EMIYA can shank her, but if he is not fast enough she would just nuke him.
3) I presume Bazett vs Cu - he takes it with Gae Bolg. I know she already killed him and Saber once, but it was sniping from distance and they had no idea someone would attack. Now in one on one, Lancer would trash her in melee and take the W.
4) Atrum vs Medea - she already killed him in story and it was a clean victory. We have no additional info on him and his gear that would grant him victory, so Its a sweep.
5)Black Shadow or Dark Sakura vs Medusa - easy W for Sakura. As a Black Shadow she was able to overpower and ultimately kill Gilgamesh, I think no one would argue that Medusa can't win againts Gil. So, Sakura wins.
6)Zoken vs Hassan of Cursed Arm - Zoken is immortal and have no heart, so Cursed Arm would not work, but I doubt it would be hard for Assasin to smush all the worms. Zoken has no way to put down Hassan, so in a one on one Hassan wins.
7)Kirei(Rasputin) vs Gilgamesh - Gil will just nuke or snipe him, easy win.
8)Prisma Illya sv Heracles - Illya is so broken here, she would just oneshot Hercules. She can fly to avoid his attacks, use magic to bind him, has instakill in form of Kaleidoscope. Illya take the W.
(Sorry for bad english.)
Saber isn't bad with swords though? She was able to go toe to toe with Sasaki Kojiro, who is Miyamoto Musashi's rival and Musashi is considered one of the best swordsman in the series
I dont think saber is bad with swords, shes literally king arthur the king of knights. The problem with her is that shes extremally strong, but they nerf her, she always have to play the role of "poor girl in danger". Just like the guy in the video says, she always has a role to play, and this role includes being weak so the plot can progress.
@@radmandan773 If Sasaki had a actual good sword and not a normal flimsy Katana he would rail Saber. She just got lucky his sword bent
Were you stoned as you wrote that shit? Saber is an outstanding swordfighter + one of the faster Servants if not drastically nerfed, and Excalibur has a tiny charging time without plot shenanigans + you anyways don't want to get into it's charge up radius. And Space Ishtar straight up murderstomps EMIYA without even trying.
@@negate4828 He in fact just got lucky that he didn't get into an all-out fight with a not drastically nerfed Saber, what's wrong with you people...
Kid Gil alone already escaped from the mud that swallowed the planet in Fate/Kaleid manga.
Bro what?!? Quintet Fuer is on equal terms to EA?!? I'm not doubting, but that shit made my mouth drop, I watched the series but I didn't know she was that cracked
A lot of servants seem to like to feel each other out before they really get to the main show. This is particularly true of Gil as his arrogance makes him hesitate in using his hold power. As such, I think a lot of these fights might come down to who takes things seriously first. Heroic spirit Emiya may have an adventurous here since he tends to have a more mercenary mindset versus "warrior."
For Gil, I think the one weapon you're underestimating is the Chains of Heavens. While not as stupidly powerful as Ea, it's far more versatile.
I'm kinda wondering if it's Parvati vs Medusa? I feel like she's the most Sakura like from the Sakura in Fate/Stay Night
It would be a fairer matchup than kama vs rider. Since par is not as OP as kama
@@sonic30655 ???? Parvati's NP is Shiva's weapon, and although Kama has higher agility and endurance by exactly one rank she is nowhere near as strong as freaking Shiva's weapon.
Between all of the strongest emiyas i really think
1-prisma illya
2-emiya archer/alter
3-emiya assassin
4-sitonai
5-miyu
6-chloe
7-irisviel
And if counting herc he automaticly became number 1 but that will not even count
Sitonai it stronger than you think. You guy always forgot she also have 2 god in her. She could lose to prima Illya in raw power but will easy make it thank to god knowledge on magic. She 100% above both Emiya unless he have some special buff. And herc will lose to both of Illya.
@@anghainguyen9951 herc probably will win when comes to fighting Prisma I mean this is the same dude that stand out against surtur
Based on feat alone he still could bring down both of the illya
Even weaponless Heracles could bring a trouble to illya and miyu at the same time in a fight
When comes to emiya he probably strongest state in fate extra where he got unlimited amount of mana
And keep in mind based on lore the sword that castoria hold is sword that been used by Heracles and you know how strong castoria is right?not to mention archer version of himself like dang Heracles probably stomps all of the servant in emiya family when goes 1 on 1
@@anghainguyen9951 when comes to sitonai we cannot see that any much feat from her lol yes I know she got multiple origin spirit of god inside her body but her feat is not that impressive compare to other servant inside this list
Dunno man... Muramasa slice concepts, that is something else man
Pretty accurate in my opinion.
FIRE 🔥
Don’t sleep on okita souji
What if we buffed the servants to their strongest/other forms? Lion king, Alcides, CCC emiya, Gorgon, or Berserker Cu do the servants take more of those wins now that were close or?
Lion King manhandles almost every single servant here except for CCC Emiya
Berserker Cu is actually said to be weaker than normal Cu actually.
Hes not even using all his abilities.
@@LifenKnight but berserker cu had that win of salter and berserker in fgo when regular cu stands no chance against berserker
@@bingobongo73 My idea is that cu is super fast, and his noble phantasm doesn't take much time or mana.
and his Disengage Skill, could allow him to run away.
If it gets heater.
I think theres a clear battle theres a clear battle play with he can win.
And the God Hand, probably shouldn't work against Gae Bolg.
As God hand is written Cu's Lancer being B actually shouldn't matter, because of the cause and effect Abilitly on Gae Bolg.
and it doesn't care about strength or durability.
@@bingobongo73 Also hes called Irish Hercules, he didn't even use with warp spasm
isnt shiro ifen later an agent of .. i cant remember .. world rule somthing .. i mean .. he basily is a timeparadox and has multiple servent forms ifen beeing a ruler in "Fate Apogrypher" in a
Greater Grail war and in the end gets beaten by an humunculus who inherated multiple servant abilitys and the Dragons Comands, .. depending on wich .. "Version" he easaly beats Saber Arthurelia. not to mention that he had a houge that could block Galebork, and that he also had Avalon in his body in Fate Stay night ... and was able to create a copy of Excalibure .. and has a reality marble .. that guys just crazy
damn i really need a timline from what he really just went throw and all his versions .. tbh i am just comfused
Ishtar is washing emiya and lancer
Ok so you xd space ishtar. Regular Ishtar is a bit more fair lol
Cu should've run Atlas Academy Mystic code smh
I don't see how Bazett is surviving the Gae Bolg there if we're talking FGO logic. They both have evades, but Cu has a guts and true hit while Bazett only has evade.
wouldve wanted to see rasputin vs cu chulain
I don’t like fate versus because it’s hard to get real information because it’s either all samantics or none of it is ( still a great video by the way)
How about Alcides vs Illya? I reckon he would have a much better shot at taking Illya out
It depends if Illya's weapons are man made weapons, if so then it would be useless againts Alcides. He can only be attacked by non man made weapons
@@xenoemblem7 that's a interesting point. My main thought was that he would blitz and kill her immediately with his speed power and ferocity before she could install any cards.
I dunno what to put here just felt like commenting
I wonder if muramasa can use rho aias and cadablog which are emiya Noble phantasm because muramasa has access to shirou memory and powers and i also wonder if muramasa can use Avalon? May anyone tell me?
He can't use Avalon, even Archer can't. I think Archer fully lost the ability to project it because the "image" was lost? Or the scabbard that was inside of him returned to the earth, and even if he can project it, it won't work without Saber, I think he needs to have a pact with her.
@@radmandan773remember that archer already dead on his timeline so avalon maybe stay on his human body or somehow return to earth, thats why he can't use it in All FSN routes. And it was implied that the shirou that was choosen for muramasa vessel comes from UBW and maybe he still alive he could in theory used it but he need to form the image first.
@@lordtouchme77 Archer lost avalon before he died, it returned to the earth, so he doesn't have it as a Heroic Spirit, nor can he trace it as the image is gone
4:53 I would not have the battle be muramasa versus saber artoria I would have it against Lancer artoria precisely because of Avalon.
but Gil fought Enkidu in close combat so I don't see what Kirei can do with regards to that unless Gil jobbing
Ayo since when did muramasa get two gods in Saint graph? Would’ve been interesting if he had Kagatsuchi in him for flame manipulation.
Only alter ego muramasa has that
@@amari7782 gotcha gotcha, but how’d he get em in the first place? Caster Cu?
@@Fragesed no the alien god
@@amari7782 ah now i see, still helping her out atm or what?
@@Fragesed no
whats the prisma verces im new to fate only seen zero ubw and heaven feild plus playing FGO NA
Wouldn't Muramasa's anti-king niche be a big problem for Artoria? Sabre chokes all the time too, and he never screws around in a fight. Idk, I'd say the old man might just spank her.
can't you make the argument with sitonai that if she can summon heracles, it just be heracles vs heracles + sitonai XD
What makes me respect Kirchstaria Wodime.
So what your saying is tha prisms illiya folds Gilgamesh archer hips not gonna be pleasers to hear this
Herc vs super Orion Ik super Orion might sweep cause he is a grand but think about it
So can someone point me in The right direction for downloading the og vns ? The copy my friend gave me got corrupted changing computers so I never got to finish the hf route or even start Ataraxia.
This shows you if he gets serious he can solo everything
Shirou in one of the bad endings of Heaven's Feel literally soloed the entire HGW in that route, he killed all the servants and masters and was the only one left alive.
And this is before he got Archer's arm, now imagine if he was his Archer grown up self.