Understanding Shirou Emiya
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- Опубліковано 12 бер 2023
- Here is why I love Shirou Emiya and Fate/Stay Night as a whole. I hope you enjoy and if you did, let me know what you thought. Every view means so much. If you want to find us elsewhere, all our links are in our link tree below. Thank you!
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funny how the most traumatic route is also the one where shirou somehow ends up with a healthier mindset overall
Or the worst mindset(mind of steel)
Everyone: Shirou wants to save people because of Survivor's guilt/
Me: Well not quite.
I mean yeah, he wants to save ppl cause of Kiritsugu and to fill the empty hole in his heart
Yeah it is survival's guilt but worse.
@@whateverwhatever4476 He wants to save people because it's when his happiness and repetence can align. Even then, he literally prioritizes loved ones in every route.
@@wombat4583 I'm well aware
I think you hit a lot of good points, especially about Shirou! Love how you emphasized the dynamic between Shirou and Kirei. I definitely think their fight in the movie was cut short, and the VN scenes are far superior! I think most fans would agree with this take!
Hmm… I doubt Nasu had wanted to tackle the abortion debate, but rather, a purely philosophical debate (even bad people have the right to life, etc). I would also like to mention that, due to Kirei’s flaw (likely psychopathy) I don’t think he would ever be capable of progressing the same way Shirou did, no matter how much he would have liked to. I like to think of Kirei as more of a tragedy, if anything. He knows what he does is wrong - you can see that with how he led his life before being introduced to Gil in Zero. He wanted to be good, and he could have been good, but at the cost of his own “pleasure”, which he could not ignore. It isn’t that he doesn’t want to progress, it’s that he can’t. Claudia’s death also solidified this. But Kirei is sure a tricky one, because even he is not always consistent!
Thank you for this video! Happy to see someone appreciate the themes in HF 3 and how they bounce off each other! Still one of my favourite movies of all time!
Cheers!
I appreciate your comment! Sorry about the late reply. I was signed out on my phone for a while which is how I normally reply to comments
I definitely agree that this abortion comparison I drew was not intended my Nasu. If someone actually wanted to write something about abortion, there are more direct ways to do so. However, I find the comparison to help highlight some important aspects of their dynamic through the similarities which is why I included it. If it doesn’t really aid your understanding of the piece, valid.
As for if Kirei could change, idk. To be honest, I just don’t know enough about psychopathy which is indeed what it seems he has. I find his struggle to be interesting, but mostly in how his journey in Zero contrasts with Shirou’s in Stay Night of embracing theirselves.
Cheers
I mean I guess you can understand it that way, but I still think the abortion part is way too much of a reach. HF route topics would be closer to ideals/doctrine and "survivors guilt", both Shirou and Kirei are trying to find why they are allowed to live through their ideals/doctrine.
Kirei's doctrine being that everyone is allowed to live, no matter how evil they are, which resonates with him like so because he was born evil so his life itself would be not worth living if not for that. So he tries to "give birth" to evil itself just to prove that it is worthy of life. In this case it shows how Kirei obsesses with his doctrine, needing it to justify his own existence.
On the other side Shirou's ideal is "being a hero of justice" and "saving everyone", and to realize it is what gives a meaning to his life. But opposite to Kirei, in HF Shirou rejects his ideals, overcoming himself and realizing that he doesn't need to "earn" his life. All he needs is to "be the hero" for the one he truly cares about, therefore realizing that he does not need to "be allowed" to live.
So the final showdown is between a man consumed by his doctrine and one trying to break free from it, that's what makes Shirou and Kirei such good parallels on this route.
Also I wanna address that UBW slander, I think both HF and UBW are good conclusions to Shirou's character.
UBW is not just Shirou becoming archer but with Rin to check on him, but Shirou "surpassing" archer. On that route Shirou is confronted by the futility of his borrowed ideals (on the form of archer) and forced make a choice, to give up his borrowed ideals or to be a husk for all eternity for following them. But what you didn't seem to get is that he didn't pick the later, in fact he didn't pick neither. He made his own path, yeah his ideals were borrowed and the only reason he had them was to give meaning to his life, but there is no rule saying he can't make them his own, yeah they are flawed but that doesn't mean they are pointless nor worth keeping.
So in UBW Shirou grows as a character in the sense he accepts those borrowed ideals as his own, he wants to be a hero of justice not because that's what Kiritsugu wanted, nor because it would give his life meaning, but because he himself wants to achieve it. He sees the futility on it but instead of running away he decides to embrace it. What do you mean it's impossible? you'll never know until you try it. What? you tried it? Well next time is gonna go better. It didn't? *Then make it so this time.*
From my point of view all 3 routes represent something:
Fate being, well, Fate. As you are fated to meet again.
UBW being hope. Cause you are made out of unlimited blades so one of them will work.
And HF being freedom, cause that is what heaven truly feels like.
I definitely agree with your interpretation of the fight. I bring up the abortion comparison to highlight important parts of how the sides philosophically interact with each other because I think that interaction is very similar in both conflicts. If it is not a useful lens for ya, valid though.
As for UBW, yeah idk I just can’t really get behind it in that way. Maybe I’m just completely misremembering, but i remember Rin’s role being pretty explicitly stated. I like the way you look at it though
I don't think the point of UBW was just shirou embracing the flaws of his ideals and hoping he can do better than Archer. I think the point was that Archer never accepted that in order to save ones he has to kill others and every person he killed would torment him as a person he failed to save. But shirou in UBW saw it and decided to focus on the ones he did save. I think that route explores what it means to be a hero. Archer is a person who started off as a classic "hero doesn't kill type" and had to face the flaws in that type of ideology the hard way, killing countless. But shirou in UBW realises that it's not about whether you can save everybody or not. It's just about saving people
And that's why I believe UBW shirou won't end up as Archer. Not because he's going the same way with hope in his heart, but because he believes that as long as he's saving someone, it's worth it
@@thoughtworld5391so out of curiosity, what's wrong with Hollow Ataraxia?
I think ultimate bladeworks is the best route because the ideals are not wrong, in measure. And rin chose that, and wants that. He is wrong in declining help thou. If shirou is aware of that, whih he gets, its flawed yet inspiring.
Hurray its finally here! Ive been waiting since like may of last year, definitely worth the wait, this is a very thorough analysis. im glad you focused on the parallels, I learned a lot since I've only seen the films. Fate´s kinda like Welcome to the NHK in structure to me, but in fate they actually get better, in NHK they just learn resolve for it. I do like shirou and sakura a lot more as they form a really complementing pair, I love seeing a couple in anime actually grow rather than just be a void of stagnation and "acceptation", you brought that to the spotlight here nicely
this was great! kudos! this really opened my eyes on some scenes and their meaning. you really should be proud
Not liking Hollow Ataraxia despite liking Fate gotta be a red flag take.
Edit: Yup, the reasoning as to why just confirms it even more.
Came across this video randomly and I do like it, tackles what happened in HF pretty well and yeah HA is...weird, what's also to mention HF isn't the only happy ending for Shirou, there's also the Real True ending for the Fate Route
That’s valid. I suppose I just didn’t really care for his relationship with Saber the same way I care for his relationship with Sakura. If you do, valid
It is strange because I think HF Shirou is just as unhealty as the other 2 routes' Shirous, it is simply that his "obsession" has switched from becoming a Hero of Justice to Sakure. My best example for this is how he kill Salter. Any of the other two Shirous would have tried to save Saber using Rule Breaker like how he was intending to save Sakura(as far as I remember he didn’t even think of doing that before the final battle) but instead he just kills Saber(an innocent friend who saved him multiple times) to save Sakura. He didn’t really stopped being obsessed, he just became obsessed with Sakura rather than being a hero.
Which I think is the worst thing for him because at the end of Fate his goal is to be with Saber again, at the end of UBW he still has his goal of being a Hero but Rin is tempering his obsession(which is something he can learn to do himself even if Rin leaves him for whatever reason) but at the end of HF he abbondoned everything for Sakura.
What happens if Sakura leaves her(through break up/death/some magical bs)? He abondoned everything for Sakura and she doesn’t understand his twisted self like Saber or Rin does(which really isn’t something against her as Saber understands because of her own past and Rin's understanding is helped by Archer) so she can’t really help him grow beyond their relationship.
I know it might seem like I hate HF and Sakura O don’t. I won’t deny they are my least favourite route and main heroine respectively but I still like HF very much and am neutral to Sakura. I just wanted to share my own interpration of HF
good video scott. one of the best fate videos on here
Huh, I really liked Angra's arc in HA
Part of me likes the ending where Shirou does sacrifice himself better because Sakura learns to not be so dependent on him and moves on.
Though in the visual novel, the ending where Shirou lives has Rin as the narrator, which is hilarious.
I'm torn on the Shirou dying ending because on one hand, Illya doesn't have to sacrifice herself and lives for atleast a little while, on the other hand Shirou died so she can't even spend time with the person she loves as her only family anymore.
@@anusaukko6792 I would have liked Illya to live but she didn't have much to live for if Shirou died.
@@dragonstormx Yeah that's why I'm torn, but after thinking about it some more HF is probably the best ending for her cause of how it happens. Even if she herself didn't realize it, Shirou remembering and screaming her name with his nearly completely fried brain really drove the point home how much she meant to him.
I really enjoy the fact it exists for that exact reason and makes me like the true end more. Knowing that Sakura’s happiness isn’t dependent on Shirou but rather that their relationship had a positive impact on her makes me more readily embrace the true end
@@dragonstormxI don't really like normal ending. Cause nothing really comes of it. There's no payoff for any of the characters at the end. Still a valid ending but characters just stop developing after it
Raw
Your Video was pretty good, tho I disagree with your comparison of Kirei vs Shirou to abortion. Kirei vs Shirou was never about whether or not angra manyu had a "right to life", cause Kirei is never trying to be a "good" or "moral" person by arguing for Angra Manyu's side, he is just trying to be evil and prove that evil isnt really evil. So its impossible for Kerei to be a metaphor for pro-life
Average Scott W
W
great video. helped me a lot but pls get a better mic
Thats a crazy switch to abortions. But hey. You do you good video Mostly i guess.
I finshed the video and well. It got worse. Im lost so you think its good that his sister died and he got reincarnated. So he chose to sacrifice?
I wouldn’t say I’m happy about Illya’s death, but I think it was a good narrative decision to push and showcase Shirou’s growth. For most of my favorite stories, including Fate/Stay Night, most of my affection comes from how moved I feel by how the message of the work is presented. Shirou having the self respect to put his life first despite the pain is moving to me because I find self respect valuable and something Shirou needed more of
there is nothing to understand about this horrible character
Your opinion is invalid. You don't understand the character nor try to