The more I see Minna Ålander, the more I appreciate her. There's a depth of knowledge there; of the history of Finland and its foreign policy -- both in sight and behind the scenes -- but also a common sense view of where the country and the nation finds itself now. Plus, she's funny in a very Finnish sort of way 😁
@@SweetBlueThing "The FIIA is a dubious think thank? She seems qualified to me." Alander is not qualified for anything. And yes the FIIA is just another dubious think-tank.
She is correct that in essence Finland had been been preparing to join NATO for about three decades. And it was evident if Russia would start a proper war Finland would react, Finland has been on alert since Crimean annexation and to some extent already from Georgian invasion of 2008. But definitely more after Crimean annexation.
You know you're correct and that Minna Ålander is saying exactly the right things simply based on immediately attracting pro-Russian bots in your replies.
According to historian Herman Lindquist Sweden/Finland have been in war with Russia 32 times and Finland part of Sweden for 700 years until lost to Russia in 1809.
Sometimes it kinda irritates us when foreigners say that Finland feels dubious towards Russia because of WWII. No, we feel dubious towards Russia because of the last thousand years. The Great Wrath and the Lesser Wrath are engrained into our psyche. Finland has never had a truly secure position in the world thanks to Russia. And Russians are the first to come and claim that Finland began its independent journey thanks to them. No, we began it in spite of them. The only real reason why Russia/USSR gave Finland its independence was that they themselves were in such disarray that holding onto Finland was simply not possible.
Northern Europe has observed Russia, and dealt with it variously, much more than Europe’s South has, and consequently, has a rather less romantic, more sober view of the Russian mindset and the nature of the Russian State. Given the uncertainty about the pan-European and Transatlantic projects, there needs to be an alliance of a kind involving Britain, the Netherlands, Scandinavia, the Baltics, Poland, Ukraine, and anyone else willing to join, an Intermarium of a kind, with a strengthening and perhaps an expansion of the nuclear-deterrence capability. Very few things can be taken for granted these days, and absolutely nothing, long-term, about Russia.
and then you need a history lesson... its the Nordics today. ...back in the day when kings and queens ruled Europe it was called Scandinavia because the entire area was under the control of Denmark, Norway and Sweden even the Baltics, Ingria and so on(thus some swedes even today thinking its only Den, Nor and Swe that was part of Scandinavia. Yes it was the 3 inbreeds on the thrones that decided "this is now Scandinavia" but it included all the Scandinavian people back then so they get confused). Short version: Geography: Today only Finland, Norway and Sweden exists on the Scandinavian peninsula. Culture/people: Scandinavian people live on Iceland, Faroe, Norway, Sweden, Åland, Denmark. For Finland and Greenland, they do have Scandinavian people but as minority as the other Nordic countries have Uralic genes mixed in(dunno if the people on Greenland see themselves as Scandinavian but they ain't). Some Danish guy found a link between Uralic(fins) and Eskimo(inuits), so did some other guy and another one even wrote a book in 1998 but they still argue about it. Looking at our cultures it we at least met at some point even with the Amercian Natives but then to try to find the links after 100's of years of erasing is probably hard(The Church probably burned a lot and our nice Muscovian colonizers try to erase everything that speaks against their fantasy version of their peoples history so who knows). Like some Swedes will argue the fact but if you go and look at the old maps you kinda get a clue of what the 3 kings saw as Scandinavia(yes there is a map with the Scandinavian name on even the Baltic's) but to avoid insulting someone or excluding someone by using a name that was given back when the borders looked different, use Nordic countries. Like you wouldn't call Poland Soviet, would you? Or exclude the people in USA from the Germanic group(don't know the makeup of USA but I assume they have pretty large Germanic population) just because they ain't part of a European country anymore. Scandinavia 300+ years ago, The Nordic countries since probably about 1962... Like you in the west did the same thing with Russia, Muscovia stole the name from another region but you in the western parts just started using it just accepting the theft that now make them think that they are the true Russians feeding their insanity(there is a Ukrainian video explaining this thing). A lot of text but use Nordic countries because the Uralic and Eskimo people ain't Scandinavian, not even related to the Indo European group like the Iranian people(Persian) are closer to you than we are ;)
My point also by stating that we are Uralic was that the entire area of today's Russia had Ural Altaic natives so that kinda has made us understand our enemy and what their real intentions are. Like just before the Allies allied with Soviet Stalin tried to erase the Ingrian people, many didn't make it but some did manage to flee to Finland so its not the first time or will it be the last time before you others understand that there is only one solution. I can help you by saying its not by talking or letting them get away with more. Like this has gone on since about the time when the Kremlin was built so maybe you others will one day see. There is a pretty sad story about why they became what they are, its a story but you can relate to it. Because when the Mongols came they had to stand alone, no one helped and they had to suffer for 200 years, twisting them into what they are today. Then they started to conquer the others around them, twisting them into a world of misery and darkness. Like a Russian guy once said, the day when everything went wrong was the day when Muscovia conquered Novgorod, like Novgorod was even ahead of other European kingdoms in democracy and towards what we have today(they were a merchant state and yes money ruled but we others had a inbreed at a throne that sometimes was as young as 13 getting their right to rule by birth). Like if you look at the fiction LoTR, Tolkien got a lot of inspiration from our folk lore. If you then Imagine the world with the twisted elves into orcs and Mordor(they have a place called Mordovia just to point it out, darkness growing in the east. Our songs talk about a darkness when we mean the Kremlin). My point is not to say that it is our story that plays out but like the first orc was a sad story you can apply that to the Muscovians, there the first Uralic group that helped the Muscovians got their payment as becoming extinct or sometimes someone says they exist still but "if a Russian speaks assume he is lying". Like they even organized a trip for Fin person exploring the tribes in Russia, turns out it was all fake and those villages does not exist. Perm is still strong and Siberians have a chance if we would just act instead of letting it happen. Like a Russian is no different from you or me but what exists in the head of that Russian is far from the same reality we have even if we don't have the same we at least are close. Like I had a Russian knowing I am Karelian come to me and say they saved us... Like he really thought they saved us... Like I do know that if things in history would have gone just the way they did I would not have been born but thinking their action was positive just blows my mind... Its like a child that really believes the moon is made of cheese because all cartoons teach em that...
@@NoumenonAndPhenomenon The current American "not our problem" attitude is quite the same observed before, and even during, WWI and WWII, some arguments almost verbatim repeating the isolationist discourse of those years. Plus a part of the Western Right (Tucker Carlson's recent podcast with Darryl Cooper is emblematic) sees Putin precisely as some saw Hitler in the 30s - as a lionized warrior against some global Jewish conspiracy to replace the white race (rather comically, since Russians, to the endless chagrin of the Russian ethnonationalists, are being "replaced" in Russia rather fast). The global security system is in the state of collapse, with the "each nation for itself" logic becoming predominant. Some countries, of course, are too small and vulnerable to be self-reliant, hence a need for new alliances.
Didn't see myself watching the whole but I did. Very interesting and civil. All were of course well spoken but Minna was a real treat to listen to to me. I'll keep my eye on this channel from now on.
Soon after the beginning of the feb 24, 2022 Russian full scale invasion of Ukraine, the Finnish government knew Finland would soon apply for Nato membership. Foreign minister of the previous Swedish government, Ann Linde heard about the Finnish intentions and said out loud: "Jävla Finland, nu måste vi också go med" (Goddamn Finland, now we also have to join with them). The abrupt exclamation of a government minister showcases the difference in mentality in security policy in these countries. For Sweden, non-alignment was very much an ideological choice, a part of Swedish identity. For Finland, it was a pragmatic choice, the best option to maximise the national security. When the security environment changed dramatically, it almost immediately became clear applying Nato membership would be the only viable option to ensure national security in the future.
Maybe, instead of layered cake model, it should be called the Onion model, or the Russian Doll model (in honour of our "Threat Direction"), or the (Medieval) Fortress model. Because the layers are within one another in these mental pictures...
It would have been much more rewarding to watch this video, if the moderator would have kept stricter order in the panel. Shorter and more consice turns for the each speaker. Good subject, but no time to listen to this
You mean you miss when Soviet Russia occupied half of Europe as colonies to extract wealth from. I understand that you miss benefiting from that, but you need to understand that nobody cares what you think.
Northern Europe is Russophobic because Ukraine was part of North European empires until Russia liberated it. "Ukranians" were just called Russians until Lenin created the administrative unit of the USSR, so Russians were both imperial subjects and a rival empire threatening to liberate territories. Hence, the animosity.
Having failed to expell Russia from the Black Sea, NATO now seeks to squeeze Russia in the Baltic. I hope Sweden does not regret casting aside its 100-odd years of neutrality which has served it well.
Squeeze Russia? NATO weren't the ones that invaded Russia. Didn't even do it now while Russia is immensely weakened. Russia is the one that invaded their neighbor and uses threatening rhetoric on a daily basis. Russia is the one using hybrid warfare in all the forms you heard at the beginning of this video. If NATO wanted war with Russia, they'd be pushed out of Ukraine in weeks, if not days.
if Russia hadn't been treated like a pariah State and backed into a corner, we wouldn't need to channel so much energy into defence. We could be allies against the real threat from globalism and the East.
I suggest you start studying history, in particular related what now is called Russia, which used to be called the grand duchy of Muscovy.. The present behaviour is not new..🧐
Trolling won't change history. Comments like this by @stirlingmoss4621 is exactly why meeting like these are needed. Russians have a very skewed view of Russia's role as an aggressor against all of its neigbours.
I like that the UK care about and want to build deeper relations with the nordic countries.
The more I see Minna Ålander, the more I appreciate her.
There's a depth of knowledge there; of the history of Finland and its foreign policy -- both in sight and behind the scenes -- but also a common sense view of where the country and the nation finds itself now.
Plus, she's funny in a very Finnish sort of way 😁
Alander don´t have a clue from anything. She is no expert but an activist working for dubious think-tanks.
The FIIA is a dubious think thank? She seems qualified to me.
@@SweetBlueThing "The FIIA is a dubious think thank? She seems qualified to me."
Alander is not qualified for anything. And yes the FIIA is just another dubious think-tank.
She is correct that in essence Finland had been been preparing to join NATO for about three decades. And it was evident if Russia would start a proper war Finland would react, Finland has been on alert since Crimean annexation and to some extent already from Georgian invasion of 2008. But definitely more after Crimean annexation.
You know you're correct and that Minna Ålander is saying exactly the right things simply based on immediately attracting pro-Russian bots in your replies.
According to historian Herman Lindquist Sweden/Finland have been in war with Russia 32 times and Finland part of Sweden for 700 years until lost to Russia in 1809.
Sometimes it kinda irritates us when foreigners say that Finland feels dubious towards Russia because of WWII. No, we feel dubious towards Russia because of the last thousand years. The Great Wrath and the Lesser Wrath are engrained into our psyche. Finland has never had a truly secure position in the world thanks to Russia.
And Russians are the first to come and claim that Finland began its independent journey thanks to them. No, we began it in spite of them. The only real reason why Russia/USSR gave Finland its independence was that they themselves were in such disarray that holding onto Finland was simply not possible.
Hyvä Minna! Go Minna Go!
Northern Europe has observed Russia, and dealt with it variously, much more than Europe’s South has, and consequently, has a rather less romantic, more sober view of the Russian mindset and the nature of the Russian State. Given the uncertainty about the pan-European and Transatlantic projects, there needs to be an alliance of a kind involving Britain, the Netherlands, Scandinavia, the Baltics, Poland, Ukraine, and anyone else willing to join, an Intermarium of a kind, with a strengthening and perhaps an expansion of the nuclear-deterrence capability. Very few things can be taken for granted these days, and absolutely nothing, long-term, about Russia.
👏👏👏 We have a common nominator. We dont like the a*hole in the neighbourhood.
and then you need a history lesson... its the Nordics today.
...back in the day when kings and queens ruled Europe it was called Scandinavia because the entire area was under the control of Denmark, Norway and Sweden even the Baltics, Ingria and so on(thus some swedes even today thinking its only Den, Nor and Swe that was part of Scandinavia. Yes it was the 3 inbreeds on the thrones that decided "this is now Scandinavia" but it included all the Scandinavian people back then so they get confused). Short version: Geography: Today only Finland, Norway and Sweden exists on the Scandinavian peninsula. Culture/people: Scandinavian people live on Iceland, Faroe, Norway, Sweden, Åland, Denmark. For Finland and Greenland, they do have Scandinavian people but as minority as the other Nordic countries have Uralic genes mixed in(dunno if the people on Greenland see themselves as Scandinavian but they ain't). Some Danish guy found a link between Uralic(fins) and Eskimo(inuits), so did some other guy and another one even wrote a book in 1998 but they still argue about it. Looking at our cultures it we at least met at some point even with the Amercian Natives but then to try to find the links after 100's of years of erasing is probably hard(The Church probably burned a lot and our nice Muscovian colonizers try to erase everything that speaks against their fantasy version of their peoples history so who knows).
Like some Swedes will argue the fact but if you go and look at the old maps you kinda get a clue of what the 3 kings saw as Scandinavia(yes there is a map with the Scandinavian name on even the Baltic's) but to avoid insulting someone or excluding someone by using a name that was given back when the borders looked different, use Nordic countries. Like you wouldn't call Poland Soviet, would you? Or exclude the people in USA from the Germanic group(don't know the makeup of USA but I assume they have pretty large Germanic population) just because they ain't part of a European country anymore.
Scandinavia 300+ years ago, The Nordic countries since probably about 1962... Like you in the west did the same thing with Russia, Muscovia stole the name from another region but you in the western parts just started using it just accepting the theft that now make them think that they are the true Russians feeding their insanity(there is a Ukrainian video explaining this thing).
A lot of text but use Nordic countries because the Uralic and Eskimo people ain't Scandinavian, not even related to the Indo European group like the Iranian people(Persian) are closer to you than we are ;)
My point also by stating that we are Uralic was that the entire area of today's Russia had Ural Altaic natives so that kinda has made us understand our enemy and what their real intentions are. Like just before the Allies allied with Soviet Stalin tried to erase the Ingrian people, many didn't make it but some did manage to flee to Finland so its not the first time or will it be the last time before you others understand that there is only one solution. I can help you by saying its not by talking or letting them get away with more. Like this has gone on since about the time when the Kremlin was built so maybe you others will one day see. There is a pretty sad story about why they became what they are, its a story but you can relate to it. Because when the Mongols came they had to stand alone, no one helped and they had to suffer for 200 years, twisting them into what they are today. Then they started to conquer the others around them, twisting them into a world of misery and darkness. Like a Russian guy once said, the day when everything went wrong was the day when Muscovia conquered Novgorod, like Novgorod was even ahead of other European kingdoms in democracy and towards what we have today(they were a merchant state and yes money ruled but we others had a inbreed at a throne that sometimes was as young as 13 getting their right to rule by birth).
Like if you look at the fiction LoTR, Tolkien got a lot of inspiration from our folk lore. If you then Imagine the world with the twisted elves into orcs and Mordor(they have a place called Mordovia just to point it out, darkness growing in the east. Our songs talk about a darkness when we mean the Kremlin). My point is not to say that it is our story that plays out but like the first orc was a sad story you can apply that to the Muscovians, there the first Uralic group that helped the Muscovians got their payment as becoming extinct or sometimes someone says they exist still but "if a Russian speaks assume he is lying". Like they even organized a trip for Fin person exploring the tribes in Russia, turns out it was all fake and those villages does not exist. Perm is still strong and Siberians have a chance if we would just act instead of letting it happen.
Like a Russian is no different from you or me but what exists in the head of that Russian is far from the same reality we have even if we don't have the same we at least are close. Like I had a Russian knowing I am Karelian come to me and say they saved us... Like he really thought they saved us... Like I do know that if things in history would have gone just the way they did I would not have been born but thinking their action was positive just blows my mind... Its like a child that really believes the moon is made of cheese because all cartoons teach em that...
Nordic countries are now forming some kind of Kalmar union 2.0, but way stronger and tighter, more united.
@@NoumenonAndPhenomenon The current American "not our problem" attitude is quite the same observed before, and even during, WWI and WWII, some arguments almost verbatim repeating the isolationist discourse of those years. Plus a part of the Western Right (Tucker Carlson's recent podcast with Darryl Cooper is emblematic) sees Putin precisely as some saw Hitler in the 30s - as a lionized warrior against some global Jewish conspiracy to replace the white race (rather comically, since Russians, to the endless chagrin of the Russian ethnonationalists, are being "replaced" in Russia rather fast). The global security system is in the state of collapse, with the "each nation for itself" logic becoming predominant. Some countries, of course, are too small and vulnerable to be self-reliant, hence a need for new alliances.
Didn't see myself watching the whole but I did. Very interesting and civil. All were of course well spoken but Minna was a real treat to listen to to me. I'll keep my eye on this channel from now on.
Well, this was a lot more entertaining and interesting that I would've expected. Such a great panel.
Soon after the beginning of the feb 24, 2022 Russian full scale invasion of Ukraine, the Finnish government knew Finland would soon apply for Nato membership.
Foreign minister of the previous Swedish government, Ann Linde heard about the Finnish intentions and said out loud: "Jävla Finland, nu måste vi också go med" (Goddamn Finland, now we also have to join with them).
The abrupt exclamation of a government minister showcases the difference in mentality in security policy in these countries. For Sweden, non-alignment was very much an ideological choice, a part of Swedish identity.
For Finland, it was a pragmatic choice, the best option to maximise the national security. When the security environment changed dramatically, it almost immediately became clear applying Nato membership would be the only viable option to ensure national security in the future.
Maybe, instead of layered cake model, it should be called the Onion model, or the Russian Doll model (in honour of our "Threat Direction"), or the (Medieval) Fortress model. Because the layers are within one another in these mental pictures...
Do you get sidelined or "taken out" if you don't ramble for a minute about how great and amazing the people behind this event really are.
❤
UK geopolitics means e.g. Gibraltar, Falkland Islands and Nothern Ireland. 😳
Well When Chamberlain Wakes..Well then We Go Again.??
It would have been much more rewarding to watch this video, if the moderator would have kept stricter order in the panel. Shorter and more consice turns for the each speaker. Good subject, but no time to listen to this
Scandinavi/ UK is a Power House..Do you think Germans will that Happend.. No.. So Its.. GB/GE/SCANDINAVIA... As it Alwayis Be..By Culture..
🇫🇮🇷🇺🇮🇱🇵🇸
This is an aristocracy corroboree. The only thing missing are the grass-skirts & jock-straps
You prefer Kremlin-style 100 meter tables and cock cages?
I miss those Times when Finland was neutral and Ukraina was Part of soviet union.
Kekkoslovakialle jyrkkä EI!
@@Jartse64 Suomi on joukossa ainoa demokratia.
You mean you miss when Soviet Russia occupied half of Europe as colonies to extract wealth from. I understand that you miss benefiting from that, but you need to understand that nobody cares what you think.
Well Write To Stalin, and Complain..That People of the World Have own Will..?
Ollaan Ameriikan demokraattinen osavaltio NATO:ssa, toisin kuin muut Pohjoismaat.
Northern Europe is Russophobic because Ukraine was part of North European empires until Russia liberated it. "Ukranians" were just called Russians until Lenin created the administrative unit of the USSR, so Russians were both imperial subjects and a rival empire threatening to liberate territories. Hence, the animosity.
Having failed to expell Russia from the Black Sea, NATO now seeks to squeeze Russia in the Baltic.
I hope Sweden does not regret casting aside its 100-odd years of neutrality which has served it well.
Squeeze Russia? NATO weren't the ones that invaded Russia. Didn't even do it now while Russia is immensely weakened. Russia is the one that invaded their neighbor and uses threatening rhetoric on a daily basis. Russia is the one using hybrid warfare in all the forms you heard at the beginning of this video.
If NATO wanted war with Russia, they'd be pushed out of Ukraine in weeks, if not days.
Russia pretending to be a victim again I see.
Another stupid comment. Russian trolling bot?
"expell Russia from the Black Sea"
I understand that would involve a lot of dredging and magnet fishing these days.
@@bakedbean37 🤣
if Russia hadn't been treated like a pariah State and backed into a corner, we wouldn't need to channel so much energy into defence. We could be allies against the real threat from globalism and the East.
absolute nonsense
The East is a threat? I agree. Well guess what Sherlock, Russia is due... East!
I suggest you start studying history, in particular related what now is called Russia, which used to be called the grand duchy of Muscovy.. The present behaviour is not new..🧐
Trolling won't change history. Comments like this by @stirlingmoss4621 is exactly why meeting like these are needed. Russians have a very skewed view of Russia's role as an aggressor against all of its neigbours.
Nonsense. Russia is a genocidal terrorist state because it is a genocidal terrorist state