Europe’s Place in a ‘World of Disorder’ with Alexander Stubb at
Вставка
- Опубліковано 15 жов 2023
- "As Europeans, we are too arrogant. We assume too much, we impose too much conditionality, and we do not listen nearly enough. We need to lead by example, not by force, to show other countries liberal democracy is indeed the best system.”
In this policy debate with former Prime Minister of Finland Alexander Stubb at #EIF23 - The European Ideas Forum - we explored Europe’s Place in a ‘World of Disorder’.
#EIF23 #FocusFuture #ThinkingTogether #United4Europe
Lead by example not by force! Well said!
Great points all around. I would add it's important for the west to recognize that bad actors are seeking to exploit our respect and adherence to the rules based order and putting pressure at its most critical points. Respect for freedom of speech is tested by the burning of a Koran, which is then exploited by Russia and Iran, for example. Other countries may not be so obvious but nonetheless sinister for the institutions in the long term, such as Turkey abusing its place in NATO for its own benefit, while exposing an arguably more western aligned ally such as Sweden to attack by Russia. "Near shoring" should not be limited to manufacturing, but should extend to the ideological and political realm too. The west must de-risk from countries that don't share its values.
19:55 While I usually agree with Mr Stubb, here I think he is flatly wrong. China is an imperialist power and has long been so. The claiming of the entire south china sea is imperialism.
You misinterpreted him, he did mention China was an authoritarian. Local disputes between China and her neighbouring countries, including Taiwan, cannot be labelled as "imperialism". But China is a huge threat to the free world, including us Europe and the UK. Unfortunately it's our manufacturing companies that have given such power to China and we simply cannot force them back, it's too late for that.
China's historical rights within the ‘dashed lines’ in SCS is like that of Canada's over Hudson Bay. And China's de jure possessions of SCS and the affiliated islands according to post WWII international legal system since the establishment of UN based world order had never been challenged by any neighboring stakeholders until 1976 and later.
China and ALL stakeholders, via relentless efforts of diplomacy and negotiations, had already passed a sequence of joint declarations and memos to address the SCS issue and has already been ready to walk the last miles to sign the ‘South China Sea Common Code of Conduct’ with only some obstacles imposed by non-regional powers.
Be aware, it was by the diplomatic approach that China has been trying to settle the dispute over the region - this isn't to any extent coercive politics and is hence not ‘imperialism’.
You wanna know the real imperialist aka highest form of monopoly capitalist perpetration over the SCS, check American oil companies contracts with Filipinos in exploiting the SCS oil and gas resources.
Even though the Chinese insist that the sovereign rights of the SCS islands belongs solely to China, it offers the regional countries much fairer slice of the resources than the giant occidental oil corporations.
The real imperialism: a non-regional state, impelled by the corporations, is forcing regional stakeholders to claim groundless rights despite decades long peace and just diplomatic efforts.
I like listen to Alexander Stubb.
A.S was years in Usa to become a good CIA clone
Hello Alex. Im watching.
Before I listen I'd say our place is F'd.
Stubb unohtanut että äänestetään Suomeen uutta presidenttiä🇫🇮😳
This guy is pompous. It is not common values that brought about the EU. Europeans were fed up and tired of centuries of war and slaughter between the different tribes that occupy Europe which led to its zenith of the kicking of 100 million people in the 1st and 2nd world War. They got tired of killing each other.
🙈
He and his wife are well educated and speak many languages but at the same time he is embarrassing. He should learn to express himself with fewer words. He represents something Finns hate.
21:35 Germans had and have the right to protect themselves.
The indigenous and Christians had and have right to protect ourselves.
13:37 killed imperialism by setting 800 military bases in the world and claiming a chunk of Pacific Ocean with all the colonies
But these places are still sovereign, have their own governments and have freedom to make their own policies.
He use to say Russia will lost the war!
My god lady let him do the talking!!
World of narcissistic personality disorder. The world of NPD!
The next president of Finland.
It's up to world politics. If Russia settles with Ukraine, there is no longer need for Stubb to become a president.
He said himself said he was not interested in Finnish presidency without the recent Russian activity, so he has no interest being in Finland.
Which should be understood if there is a better option, he is glad to lose the race. For example Haavisto finally agreed to run for presidency as well and has done it many more times than Stubb. But it's good experience all the same, but I doubt his family is ready to move all the way to Finland.
And now he is 😊
Mainly European.centric, unfortunately.
And what about now? When Israel is committing genocide? Does Finland condemn it? This is the question that you were afraid about Alexander... Now do you condemn Israel? Does anyone in Europe condemn Israels war crimes? How did Europe try to deescalate and mitigate this genocide?
its not finlands fault israel is there, its not our job to protect gaza or its citizens.
Yep... Me me me..
Stubb äänessä myös Suomen presidentti ehdokkaana👋Ei ääniä👺Stubb on stressaava vaarallinen😂sana ei satu ei keppi ota.
Stubb tulee voittamaan toisen kierroksen helposti. Lopputulos tullee olemaan luokkaa Stubb 65% ja Haavisto 35%.
Бодивидомся що буде.
Без тактики Юссі Х-а був би майбутнім президентом.
"...without gunfactories we have no antisemitism norway hasn't bring guns to ukraine, you say they can't i say:" they are wiser than you
I would like to see the USA out of NATO and the end of globalism. I would also like the end of trade in agricultural products and inputs. Also the end of global trade in petroleum. End the WTO, generally. Regionalization of power is good. The end of secure, reliable, and cheap oceanic transport would also be great.
Anyone who calls for the USA to be out of anything is in fact calling for the USA to be weaker and poorer. The US overwhelmingly increased its global power, wealth and security precisely because of its global dominance, network of alliances and diplomatic arrangements, promoting free trade and securing trade lanes. Therefore, withdrawing from any of those means weakening the US relative to other powers that will happily fill the vacuum. But even if some people were OK with that, hoping that the US would become isolated yet still wealthy and "happy"- that's not going to happen. The US would still remain a great power, and just like any great power it would eventually have to get involved when a major conflict occurs, just like it did in WW2 after the period of post-WW1 isolationism. But at that point it would have far less leverage globally, less allies, and less relative power, resulting in potentially having it involve far more resources and soldiers on the ground that it would otherwise have to if it remained engaged on the world stage the way it is now.
@@ernest1520 involvement in the world makes us poorer. Our security is provided by the Atlantic and Pacific. Anybody who calls for foreign troop deployments just wants us to provide welfare for the Eastern Hemisphere. We should never have got involved in WW1 and WW2 in the first place. The USA was founded in freedom from empire, not so we could become an empire ourselves. The wealth of the USA comes from its own demography and geography. The rest of the world just weighs us down.
US out of NATO? Lol, ok, goodbye Europe, hello Russian Empire.
@@kkpenney444 The Europeans and the Israelis ought to be able to stand on their own by now.
@@blafonovision4342 good luck with that
Stubb and Martens Centre fit well together. Nobody takes them seriously. They are both marginalized with few listening students. No one from the intellectual world takes them seriously. Stubb does not dare to analyze his own features from the past, because he is always wrong. But there are a few dogs who listen, congratulations on that. 943 from the UA-cam!!
"Russia labels Martens Centre 'undesirable'". Novaya Gazeta Europe. 3 August 2023
...sounds like some Russians are offended by what Stubb has to say...
Putin did not underestimated the Ukrainean army, which is nothing else that an subdivision of NATO, that is why he decided to make this special operation. The unity of West is your narrative, but a narrative is not necessary reality. And there is a point you didn't mentioned: that is the fact that this Ukrainean war and specially the sanctions to Russia provoked a rapid développement of BRICS, a sort of alliance between China and Russia and most of all the développement of the Global South against the West. And these three points are at least as important as what you are calling the United West, I think it is Putin who is winning this war obviously and not NATO, until now at least and the way the West does not recognize this fact and . continues saying that Putin has failed becomes more and more ridiculous with the time because obviously the rest of the world says exactly the contrary , nearer to reality.
"Putin did not underestimated the Ukrainean army, which is nothing else that an subdivision of NATO, that is why he decided to make this special operation."
This version of events makes little sense because when Putin announced the "special operation" he said it was because Ukraine is apparently run by Nazis, and that they are persecuting Russians. Only after the entire world started to ask evidence and point out how absurd this excuse is because, how a country with a Jewish leader, and more progressive leanings than Russia, can be run by Nazis, he then suddenly pivots and says "actually the operation is because NATO is coming too close" to us.
Then Finland, and now Sweden join NATO because of Russian aggression. Finland's border with Russia is huge, and it is even more strategically close to Russia's main cities, so if Russia was afraid of more NATO, then why attack Ukraine and not Finland? Finland would be the more obvious choice, given that they were already NATO compatible and highly in collaboration with NATO.
The reality is, that NATO is a convenient excuse for him because he doesn't like the fact that countries around Russia can be independent by defending themselves with allies, because he wants to conquer these lands and rebuild the "USSR" states. Since the fall of the USSR, Russia has waged war against 3 of it's neighboring countries, but not one single NATO country. Clearly, NATO is like a cat that keeps the rat (Russia) out of the house.
NATO is the obvious solution for any nation looking for protection from Russian aggression. Because every decade, Russia attacks a new country, and then claims they are doing it for "self-defense". You will see, that by 2030, suddenly Belarus will become part of Russia too, rather they want to or not.
Russia is an imperialist country, and at this moment, only NATO can put an end to it.
As for China-Russia collaboration. Well yes, Putin has turned more towards China, but China has so far played the role of a "middleman" here and not taken a strong pro-Russia stance. In fact, China knows it is the powerful one in it's relationship with Russia now. So Russia has to pay respect to China and China can choose if they give it back or not. China still needs Western markets and industry more than Russia at the moment, so I don't think China is going to make a major commitment to Russia yet. Many Western nations are also softening their stance to China and looking to collaborate, so we'll see what happens. With the rest of the world, I believe the West could do and should do more to court them, and as Alex Stub here points out, he wants to increase collaboration with Africa and Asia if he is elected president and promote other Western nations to do the same. In the end, I believe the richer West has more to offer these nations than a increasingly desperate and poorly run Russia. Consider Russian entire economy is smaller than the size of the economy of just ONE American State. Do you think if the collective West decides to help Africa and Asia, that Russia would be somehow able to offer them more? All the West needs to do is get their heads together and unite, that way we can show Russia that it will isolate itself more with it's aggressive behavior. Hopefully Russia can then evolve into a normal and peaceful nation. Because the average Russian people deserve a government that truly cares about their interest more than the interests of their egotistical leader, and someone who would develop the country into better direction. The average Russian doesn't deserve to be part of this sh*tshow, so I hope the best for the Russian people in the long-term. It will never happen under Putin or his circle though.
@@AK-jm1sc First of all I want to hold back your attention to the fact that the regime of Kiev bombed during 8 years, from 2014 to 2022 the russian minority in the East of Ukraine, they killed them, they expeĺled them out of the territory of Ukraine, they expropriate them just as did Hitler with the jews during the 3e Reich. So one jewish leader change nothing about these facts, largely documentated and observed by the whole world or at least by all those who wanted to be informed.
2) You mentioned the NATO enlargement to Sweden and Finland. We all know that both of these countries made their army manœuvres for many years already together with NATO, so nothing New happened, only that this relationship became now official. Nevertheless the way you pointed this out is revealing a lot of your real attitude, so that I want to put you a question: when you are so good and peaceful countries as you want us to believe why you put then such an importance by surrounding Russia with nuclear weapon bases in Poland, in Roumania, in Sweden, in Finland., in Turkey. Would you like that NATO would do that with your country? So surrounded by such a dangerous power as NATO it is absolutely not astonishing that Russia has to spend out à lot of money for his security so that his population may be still poorer than the rest of the other european countries . But that is not a reason to enjoy yourself about this poverty. If you are so peaceful countries as you pretend to be that it would be more intelligent to help Russia to become less poor. But I am afraid it will be too late, because Russia is not realy so poor as you said because Russia has a lot of raw materials so much wanted by other countries .so that it will not be so isolated, as the NATO countries
wish.
3) Now Russia has turned his back to Europe and his face to Asia, where countries with big populations urgently need all these raw materials, to whose NATO countries have no longer access. The EU has to substitute the cheap russian raw materials by raw materials of other countries paid 3time the price., so that they will be no longer a dangerous concurrent to their dear friend the United States. And as long as Europe will not come back to his own continent, the Eurasian continent, they will be the big loser of all this development.
4) When China must see the recklessness with wich the NATO countries are ready to throw the whole population of Ukraine in the méat grinder rather than to prefer negociations with Russia then China, a deeply peaceful country, understand that it has, nolens volens, to prépare itself for war. The same imperialisme, which does not let in peace Russia around the Black Sea will not tolerate à peaceful reunification of China. The Palestinian population is attacked with cruelty, Iran is threatened by the United States and the Houthis are already the next target. Wars, wars, everywhere you are looking nothing else but wars. And so the whole mankind hopes that the superpower China/Russia will
succeed in taming this blôody scourge called hegemony of the USA.
Conclusion: while you put on the table nothing but suppositions, suspicions, narratives and narratives without any prove we see on the other side only facts related to reality. And reality is the
only dimension which is of importance..
You have to seek information from many sources to piece together what is true. Please don't be an idiot.

Terve Alexi. Katson tämän kyllä tarkoin.