Experimenting With A No Prep Epoxy Floor On Broom Finished Concrete. Urethane Topcoat Install.
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- Опубліковано 27 вер 2024
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I NEED TO CLARIFY, I WOULD NEVER RECOMMEND INSTALLING A FLOOR WITHOUT PREPARATION. THIS IS AN EXPERIMENT IN MY OWN GARAGE TO SHOW HOW WELL OUR PRIMERS WORK. WE ALWAYS RECOMMEND DIAMOND GRINDING CONCRETE AS PREPARATION.
Thanks for watching
We have been installing floors since 1994. Both polished concrete and epoxy flooring systems.
Visit our website concretefloors...
Check out our online store for more information on our products:
concretefloors...
We used the following materials on this floor:
3, 500 square foot kits, Dark Gray, FB-414 Gravel Flake, Urethane Topcoat
concretefloors...
Special Thanks To Brent From Durable Epoxy Floors, Almont, Michigan
810-845-4246
The materials we sell are the same materials that we have been installing for over 20 years. We have very extensive knowledge of all products and almost every concrete condition imaginable.
We will share our knowledge with you so you can install as good a floor as possible.
Email me direct jason@concretefloorsolutions.com if you have any questions about anything.
Man you guys are awesome! Educating the customer is the best way to do business, loving these videos I already watched 3 of them! I don't trust buying anyone else's epoxy now since A) I don't know how well it works and B) I have no clue how to install it, whereas with your products I literally have hours of footage I can watch to prep myself. Big kudos it takes alot of time to make these videos
Thank you for watching. If you decide to tackle your own floor, I am always more than willing to coach customers over the phone also.
Love the mic, much better..... glad to have you back, I just finished a bakery/cafe full flake job today, look great.
I was just thinking it’s been a while since you guys posted! Nice work as always 👍
It was really nice talking to you today, I will be hitting you up this spring when I get the building up, it will be about 6,000 square feet so lots of product and I will be using the same no prep method! I also finally found the Dewalt tool you used. Take care!
That video was amazing. I am starting to learn more and more about floor coatings from watching a few of your videos so far. I hope to watch a few more in the coming weeks.
I'm in Sydney, Australia in fact and I love how the Americans go about their business when it comes to these sorts of things.
I am currently about to build a huge shed of my own and funny enough it's practically the same size as yours.
Yours is 30 feet x 50 feet and as we're in the metric system, mine is 9m x 15.3m with a peak height of 4.5m, so it's quite large.
I'm glad I picked up on the need to have the concrete brushed so the primer can adhere to the concrete. I was going to do it smooth. I'll have my concreter brush finish it. Glad I watched this video !!
I hope to be able to do the floor coating in a similar fashion to yours, only thing is I have to source products here that are as good as what you have there.
Wish me luck !
Thank you for watching, I'm glad you learned something. Good luck.
Excellent Video. Would it possible to list/ show the following on a project like this. A running time clock so the viewer can see your application progress in a timed manner along with the temperature and humidity levels again so the viewer can better judge their home/ job applications conditions. Overall the best videos on UA-cam.
I'm happy for you and the take off on sales. Wish you were local to California. I would definitely love to take an apprenticeship under you and restart your physical jobs again. Good stuff all around. Best wishes to you.
THANK YOU for posting!!! 💪🏽💪🏽💪🏽
Looks beautiful.I learned something everytime I look at your program. Thanks so much.
Where you at sir, the sun looks awfully huge in the first scene. Just kidding. I love your videos, love from India. Cheers!
Eastern Pennsylvania, Thank you for watching
Good video. When you filled the joints, did the joints need scraping, or did the filler flatten out so much that no further work was required? Is the aluminum oxide s an anti-slip measure?
I scraped the joints, but since the broom finish was still on the floor, I could not scrape close enough, so I needed to grind over the joints with a hand grinder to remove the crown from the top of the joints.
Aluminum oxide is a non-skid additive, it resembles clear particles of sand, but is much stronger
Nice graphics added to assist in telling the story! So in the end, with the polyaspartic top coat I’m using, how do I apply it most efficiently/effectively? With the watering can? I’m tackling this by myself in my 20x20 garage.
What brand material is it?
@@ConcreteFloorSolutions Yours!
@@debitdon9652 I would recommend pouring it out consistently,Squeegeeing the polyaspartic, and back rolling it quickly. You have approximately 15 or 20 minutes to squeegee it out and back roll it before it starts getting tacky.
@@debitdon9652 how did it go for you? Sorry I'm late to the party, just curious. Hopefully you had one person to help you, polyaspartics aren't fun to mix, squeegee, and backroll by yourself and risky.
@@brandocommando4459 My neighbor helped, which was huge. I'd suggest, if there's a way, to mix the polyaspartic in a smaller batch (half??) if you can. You really have to have an effective game plan so it doesn't get away from you.
Beautiful job A+
Id love to see a follow up to this video to see how well it held up, ive never found a primer that can lock up and penetrate the laitance from freshly poured concrete.
So far so good, I'm only six months into it, but I feel very confident there wont be any issues. The primer penetrated much more than I even expected.
hello
why would you say you can see the the expansion joints still(against the reflexion )?....I mean you did 2 coats of primer...
I always liked to do a clear epoxy over the heavy broadcast of chips and then the urethane for a top coat but maybe it doesn't matter.
My understanding with that will be the clear epoxy will start to yellow in direct sunlight under the urethane. The urethane does not prevent ultraviolet light from passing through. I may be mistaken, but that was what I was always taught.
@@ConcreteFloorSolutions If the urethane doesn't block UV, then yes, the Epoxy will yellow over time...
Epoxy is simply a liquid form of Plastic that then hardens and Plastic has a nasty tendency to yellow with time...
Looks great this looks like my way to go. I have a 20’x20’ then a work shop of 12’x20’ tool storage area behind one of the bays. MY builder is Toll Brothers, doubt I will be able to talk him into a light broom finish. Hopefully you have a list of materials used on this project.
Not a problem at all, email me directly jason@concretefloorsolutions.com and I will get you a material list for your project
Great job 👏
Absolutely fantastic job on your floor and video production! Subscribed and I will be reaching out to you soon about materials for my 4 car garage.
Thanks for watching, you can contact me directly jason@concretefloorsolutions.com
Please, why do you apply 2K urethane top coat by pouring from bucket and in other video 1K urethane top coat is applied by dip and roll. What is difference? Thanks 👍
I never claim to know everything. That trick was actually passed on to me by one of my customers so I tried it and absolutely loved it. Much easier to apply and much more consistent. There is no difference at all otherwise. Just simplifying the application method.
@@ConcreteFloorSolutions So it is new method of applying finish clear coat 😀. I need to try it.
So you will stop to use dip and roll method?
@@e.k.7387 I prefer pouring out of the watering can. You get so much better control over coverage rate. You can still do either but future floors I would always use the watering can at this point.
@@e.k.7387 yes it is. Like I said, a customer actually recommended it to me and that's how I learned it.
Video was spot on with clear video and audio. I was thinking about doing my 700 sf driveway in Sunny Florida, how do think this will hold up over time to the uv rays?
You can install systems exterior. It is imperative that you aggressively prepare the concrete first. You must either diamond grind to create a scratch or shot blast. You also must use a polyaspartic topcoat to withstand the UV light.
concretefloorsolutions.com/store/epoxy-floor-kits/500-sq-ft-cfs-1c-polyaspartic-flake-floor-kit/
You are a incredible craftsman, however I can see very plainly the saw cut expansion joints flashing, with its different texture where you filled them with the two part filler, what could have you done to keep this from happening ???
You are correct, you can slightly see the joints in the reflectivity. The problem was that I ground over the joints to remove the excess joint filler. That is what changed the texture of the floor.
Since the floor was a broom finish, I needed to grind into the valleys of the broom finish to remove the residue from the joint filler overflow. That is what created the variation in surface texture that is visible.
What I would probably do differently is either shave the joint filler immediately after, and don't grind it at all. Or simply grind the whole floor, (which is the preferred preparation method.)
this floor was done as an experiment to see how the material would bond to an unprepared broom finish floor.
To date, the material is 100% bonded everywhere, and looks like the day it was installed.
How different is diamond ground finish from a broom finish? Who wants to pour a new floor then wait 30 days and pay more to grind it if a broom finish works too? How does the HP Urethane stand up to hot tires? whats its longevity looking like?
The urethanes are 100% UV stable and have better scratch resistance over epoxy.
You can also install a polyaspartic topcoat, which is even more durable than the urethane. There is no such thing as hot tire pick up if the floor is prepared properly. In this video, I did not grind the floor. I simply went over a broom finish floor. I can't recommend to do that because it is skipping the preparation work, it worked for me, but it might not work for everybody depending on your concrete
@@ConcreteFloorSolutions Yes. I thought the point of the video was to test a broom finish on a new pour? an existing "used" floor would likely have to be degreased and ground. For pople like me who will be pouring a new garage I'd like to NOT have to grind it after it dries. I'd like to broom finish it then coat it.
What about muratic acid. I have used it rather than grinding a floor. Worked great for me.
@@tannerarmstrong2205 muriatic acid only works if there are no oil contaminants anywhere on the floor and there are no sealers on the floor. It definitely is not the recommended means of preparation, but sometimes does work. It is just an unpredictable preparation method, but better than nothing. Also, if acid does penetrate into cracks and is not neutralize properly, it can deteriorate the concrete, and create a coating failure in the future.
Nice job👍😊
I noticed you rolled in the opposite direction in which you squeegee, is this completely on purpose, or not absolutely necessary? Thanks for your time!
Absolutely intentionally. If you squeegee left to right, you want to roll front to back. Consistency is the key to any good floor coating. By going opposite directions, you eliminate stripes
Hello. Love your videos, great stuff. I have a new concrete floor poured a couple of weeks ago. It's 185 slum, 40 ns. What way should i prep it
great video. Thanks for the tips sprinkled throughout the vid. HOWEVER.... you never did explain the black plastic on the windows. :)
The reason why I hung the black plastic is so direct sunlight does not hit the liquid epoxy and create bubbles in the surface. Direct sunlight will draw vapors up through the concrete and can create bubbles
Can the top coat be doubled for a smoother finish?
Yes, you could do a second coat, you cannot apply the first coat more than 166 sq ft per gallon.
Why didn't you fill in the joints with backer rod .saves on material that stuff is expensive
Typically, backer rod is only used in joints over 2" deep. Sometimes I will pre-fill the joints with sand, but I am not a big fan of Backer rod either way.
I plan on doing our garage floor this summer and have been watching your videos. I am thinking about doing it myself, but wonder how far away you travel to do residential floors? Your work is really top notch!
We don’t do installations any more, just material sales
Go as far as the money is still worth it. I usually stay in my metro area. 25 mile radius.
If it’s farther, charge a bit more. Although just starting you take what you can get to stay busy.
@@ConcreteFloorSolutions Do you export your product to other countries ? I'd love to be able to use your amazing system here in Sydney, Australia.
@@tonymontana897 i'm sorry, we do not. Thank you for watching.
How has this floor held up? I honestly wanna know.
@@QZCOATINGSWESTCOASTLLC it literally looks like the day it was installed yet. 100% bond everywhere, I can’t say I abuse the floor, but I do use it pretty hard. I had a snowplow sitting on the floor all summer long , when I picked it up there was a real heavy rust stain, I used a wet mop and it came right up. Zero issues at all.
Please don't be insulted by my comments. When concrete is trowel into place and either smooth finished or borrowed all the fines rise to the top. Those fines create what some industry people call the cream. The creme is by far the most substantially weakest layer of the new slab. That is precisely why shot lasting or grinding is performed to achieve not only a profile or tooth but to remove the weak cream. By applying epoxy to the broom finished you have delivered a weaker bonded coated floor. You get the visual impression that your primer truly soaks into the concrete. That's obvious but it's entered the weakest concrete possible. It's a visual mistake. Any concrete that absorbs an epoxy coating to the point of complete absorption is substandard. Needs to be removed to maximize adhesion and performance such as compressive and tensile properties. What your teaching is wrong. Again, please don't be insulted but this method delivers a weaker performing coating system.
I agree, that's why I am not describing it as the recommended method of installation. It was an experiment to see how the primer will penetrate, That is it. I have never installed a floor without the proper preparation before. Look at any of your other videos.
Thank you for watching.
I was wondering the same thing, I am DIyer who has taken a heads first dive into this stuff the past couple weeks. So here is my idea. What if I did the prep in this video but then used surface retarder for a couple hours over the broom finish? Or is there a known way by the experts to use surface retarded to just remove the cream layer without going for the exposed aggregate look?
@@MysteryScienceGaming you may be over thinking it. I would simply do a broom finish and be done with it.
Y’all are definitely over thinking it. It’s broom finished. Also, watch the video. There’s your proof. 🤷🏽♂️
Was on board until the flake went down. Don't understand why flake is the standard that it is.
It is all personal preference. The flake is just great camouflage and adds some texture to the floor so it’s not slippery when wet. You can absolutely use a solid color, but you will see every mark you leave in the floor.
If you do not pick up the wire mesh off of the bottom, you might as well not have it in there.
2:06
What can you do to one of these floors that somebody put it down and messed up? How can I fix that?
It depends with the mess up is? What exactly did they do wrong?
okay almost a year is there a follow up video?
idk but he just recommended the video to me because I thought about how to do this so I can only assume it must still be holding up? But yeah, would love to see update every year.
Awesome videos! Which roller do you use?
18" epoxy glide, 1/4" nap
@tuffguy428
0 seconds ago
So, it's been a year since installation., what's your opinion on using the urethane topcoat instead of the polyaspartic? Can you give me your pros and cons on the two types and how well the poly has held up?
The urethane topcoat has held up absolutely fantastic. Literally flawless. Looks like the day I put it in. The negative of the urethane is that it is very low viscosity and does not cling to the flake like the CFS-1C polyaspartic. It does leave more texture, which can make the floor harder to clean, but does definitely add traction also.
I would say the urethane would be perfect for floors that are going to be exposed to a lot of water and people walking on the floor while it is wet.
The single component polyaspartic is a thicker viscosity material and has enough body to cling to the flake and give it rounded edges. The polyaspartic gives a richer, thicker clearcoat look which I would think would be more appealing for most people.
The polyaspartic is better scratch resistance than the urethane, and they are both 100% UV stable.
If you have any questions at all, please contact me directly jason@concretefloorsolutions.com
Silly question. Can this technique be used on an kitchen floor?
Yes, but you need to prep the floor very well first, diamond grinding recommended
How much does a project like that cost the customer ?
If you install it yourself, material cost is approximately $3.50 per square foot. If you pay a contractor it would cost around $10 per square foot.
concretefloorsolutions.com/product-category/epoxy-floor-kits/
So if that poly top coat is 100% UV stable, can this product now be applied outdoors for use on a concrete pool deck?
It is 100% UV , my concern with pool decks is the chlorine and chemical exposure. The Polyaspartic is 100% UV stable and a better choice for exterior application although chemicals would still be my concern.
concretefloorsolutions.com/product/cfs-1c-polyaspartic-single-component-polyaspartic-coating/
I have an older floor that is not broom finished. What are my options?
Diamond grind the floor as preparation. Or don't do anything and take a chance of a failure.
Can you add the aluminum to the urethane directly? Ive used the urethane prior, is 1 coat or 2 coats preferred? What roller cover did you use on the urethane top coat? Lastly, you put the HPU down at 166 sqft/ gal yet the TDS say 320-500 sqft/gal Thanks Jim
I would lightly sprinkle the aluminum oxide on the floor prior to pouring out the urethane, then roll the urethane over the aluminum oxide to encapsulate it in the urethane. One coat is typically sufficient however if somebody wants a smoother texture, you could apply a second coat
@@ConcreteFloorSolutions Thanks you for your reply. I added a question on coverage but assuming the 166 sqft is due to a chip floor?
@@simcojg you are correct, the material normally goes down much thinner on a smooth floor. If you are going over chip, you want to follow 166 ft.² per gallon or the floor may be too rough.
Do you make it out to Hunterdon county new jersey?
We do not do any installs, we only sell materials. I do have a local company that may be willing to travel to you.
If you are interested, email me jason@concretefloorsolutions.com with your contact information and I can forward it to them.
What was your top coat of choice? Epoxy? Polyaspartic? Urethan? Thanks ✌️
A couple months ago, I would say urethane. But now we have developed a single component polyaspartic with a long working time that we will be releasing in the next month or so. That will be my new go to clearcoat.
If you are working interior with no UV exposure, the clear epoxy topcoat is very sufficient and easiest to work with.
If I'm doing my garage floor how necessary is the urethane top coat? If I just did epoxy and flake how would it be?
The clear epoxy is a fantastic topcoat, in direct sunlight it will slightly yellow overtime though. The urethane will not.
The Epoxy is very simple to install also.
You do need to put a clearcoat on top of the flake or it will be virtually impossible to keep clean.
@@ConcreteFloorSolutions Would I need to add aluminum oxide for traction to the layer of clear? I thought the flake added traction. Is flake purely a design element? Thank you for your response.
@@bhleblanc Aluminum oxide comes with our kits. With the urethane Topcoat, you probably could get away without it because there is some texture with the flake. The urethane is so thin you still get the texture reflecting through the topcoat. I would definitely recommend aluminum oxide with the standard topcoat or the polyaspartic.concretefloorsolutions.com/product/500-sq-ft-complete-epoxy-flake-floor-kit/
How much is it cost for the materials?
Links are in the description below:
concretefloorsolutions.com/product-category/epoxy-floor-kits/
Can i use diy products on outside patio
Yes, our polyaspartics are rated for exterior
concretefloorsolutions.com/product-category/polyaspartics/
If you have any questions, please look me up directly jason@concretefloorsolutions.com
There wasn't enough flakes and they have already put the top coat down
this is the answer to your previous question, you would have to apply a clear polyaspartic, broadcast more flakes into it, and then another clear polyaspartic on top.
You would need to lightly sand the surface prior to applying new coatings on top as preparation.
concretefloorsolutions.com/store/polyaspartics/cfs-1c-polyaspartic/
No concern for laitance?
That was the experiment with the primer. We have a very low viscosity primer that penetrates very well. Time will tell.
How do you like working with the No prep epoxy? Do you trust it?
If I didn't trust that I wouldn't do it on my own floor. I have 100% confidence that it's going to work, at least in my application.I can't in good conscience tell anybody to not prep their floor. This video is an example / experiment of how good the primer works. Many flooring companies do not use primers which would definitely not work in the situation.
@@ConcreteFloorSolutions fair enough, I have never used it personally speaking. But I’ve heard mixed feedback on different types. I enjoy your content, thank you kindly for the reply.
Good job on floor but those concrete footings sure look against code - they are way too thin - will crack with wind load. Given the anchor, it should be at least 10" diameter.
You know the economy sucks when people are building pole barn style garages with the cheapest doors and windows and then attempting to dress it all up with a flaky floor. LoL
Come on man, the broomed cream is the weakest part of the floor. got to mechanically remove that.
The whole point of this video is to show how well the primer penetrates through the cream.
@@ConcreteFloorSolutions I think it's a mistake to tell people they don't have to mechanically prep a broom finished slab. I'd like to see a pull test where you ground up bird crap vs no grinding. I bet it's stuck better. You ever scraped up a coating and had concrete stuck on the underside? You'll get that here a lot easier here than on a mechanically prepped slab.
@@TSB210 Time will tell, again this is an experiment on my own floor. I have never and will never install the floor without preparation for a customer.
I do have to say I feel 100% confident that I will never have a problem with this floor though.
What color flake is that? The stone one? Also the website says 80 lbs of flake are needed for full coverage of 580 sq ft. This video looks pretty close to full coverage but you have only 45 lbs for 1500 sq ft? How?
Fb-414 flake 1/4”. 50 pounds of flake is needed for 500 ft.². , 10 pounds per 100 ft.² will achieve full flake if applied properly.
I did want to reference your other question about polyaspartics. Traditional two component polyaspartics are extremely rapid setting and not user-friendly at all. We have a very user-friendly, slow setting single component polyaspartic. (CFS-1C single component Polyaspartic.). we have both top coats available as options. Some contractors do prefer the fast setting polyaspartic, but I would never recommend that for a DIY.
I use a 2 part polyurethane for top coat/s as well..... I'll never look back... Its a game changer.
Boss , you are doing the right thing as an Owner.
Welcome back! Your microphone worked great -- you were loud and clear throughout the entire video! Finally... Geez, first the insects, and now the birds? What's next, fur and bunny droppings to contend with? 🤣😂🤣
Nice to see you back and growing.!!!
by the way what kind of spikes is Jeff wearing??? 🤷🏽♂️🤷🏽♂️
Found your video because I was specifically searching for someone who did a broom finish to save themselves the prep step on new concrete. I was very happy to see someone with your length of experience trying it. With the primer soaking in like that it really shows that there is penetration. I am no expert at this by any means but what else are you looking for in floor prep than the coating being able to soak in and grab? Have you heard of anyone else doing this with any longer term duration? Would you personally trust this coating to some heavier equipment like a skid steer or any other equipment rated for your 4" pour?
I tried it on my own floor simply because for the last 28 years all I did was preach how you had to diamond grind the floor. I couldn't in good conscience do this for a customer.
I agree with you 100%, if the primer penetrates into the concrete like that, there is no chance of failure.
I'm sure somebody somewhere has tried it, but I have not personally talked to anybody about it.
I feel confident this is a lifetime floor. It can't peel unless you peel off the top of the concrete floor which seems impossible to me.
I'm so excited thank you for the video. I'm glad there will be more.
What's the black plastic on the windows for? You said would explain it and then didn't. LOL
That was to stop the direct sunlight from coming in the window and creating bubbles in the coating.
@@ConcreteFloorSolutions Thanks! I thought maybe it was the birds. LOL Wasn't sure if the windows were finished.
Holy cow, what planet are you on? The sun is huge!
Can you show up closely squegee you are using. I am wondering is that rubber, flat or nothed squegee? Thanks, great video again!
24” flat EPDM concretefloorsolutions.com/product/midwest-rake-s550-professional-squeegee/
Thanks for the video , I usually mix the non skid with polyasparatic but I see you spread it over the floor before you add the urethane, which better?
I prefer to lightly broadcast aluminum oxide prior to the urethane installation. If we are using an epoxy or polyaspartic, I broadcast the aluminum oxide on the squeegeed material and then back roll it. It's different for each coating.
@@ConcreteFloorSolutions thank you and best of luck
How did they keep the reinforceing mat from settling to the bottom of the pour?
They keep lifting it with their rakes as they move along.
@@ConcreteFloorSolutions Don't you need chairs to hold the mat up so it doesn't sink to the bottom as they walk on it?
@@ubroc I know chairs can be used, I'm sure because they drove their buggy across it it would crush the chairs. They pulled it up as they poured the concrete
@@ConcreteFloorSolutions There's a sure fire way to check. The slab will crack over time because the reinforcing mat can't do it's job. If you install a floor with radiant tubing tied off to the mat the mat and the tubes will sink to the bottom and the floor will take longer to heat up. The only thing that works are chairs
What was the white powder you sprinkled before the final coat of Urethane?
@@waseemahmed2028 aluminum oxide
How old was the concrete before you put the primer on?
30 days
You videos rock 😀
thanks for watching
lol the noise of the spiked shoes when its sped up is funny
How much do you charge per square foot and do you always fill control joints?
Anywhere from $9-$12 per sq ft.
Joints are the customers choice.
Can this technique be used on a kitchen floor?
How did this hold up? I wondered if the broom finish might crack up underneath the coating. Thanks! Love your videos
So far it has been flawless. It has been 8 months, exposed to heavy vehicle traffic, freeze thaw and salt, and no issues at all.
I believe the primer is the secret.
What flake size did you use ? Thanks
1/4"
Why fill the joints versus leaving them unfilled?
It is all personal preference. Most people like a seamless floor. Thats easy to clean. If you leave the joints open, they will catch dirt forever.
The only risk is if you coat over the joints and the concrete moves, you may get a crack in the coating.
@@ConcreteFloorSolutions do you coat the joints if you want to leave then unfilled?
@@ConcreteFloorSolutions or you could put two saw blades on the concrete saw and use backer rod and Sika-Flex self leveling joint compound in the joints
@@emcinc9654 that will work, but you cannot coat on top of polyurethane joint filler, it is too soft