Why Daredevil Season 2 Was The Best Season Of The Punisher
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- Опубліковано 6 лип 2024
- Marvel's The Punisher series produced by Netflix had a rocky start out of the gate. The character of The Punisher was so perfectly introduced during Daredevil's second season. So why did Netflix and Marvel Studios feel they needed to backtrack and rehash the characters origin story? Let alone, returning to that well throughout the first season of The Punisher. For some reason Hollywood thinks audiences will be lost without a lengthy origin story, but why?
#ThePunisher #Marvel #Nerdstalgic
Written by Chris Teregis
Edited by Dan Smiley - Розваги
"Penny & Dime" is still one of the best episodes of any MCU show put to screen.
I think the episode before that, “new York’s finest” is THE best marvel episode
The three episode of the hallway fight scenes and a new napkin are the best for me
@@eanderson9599yeah that scene where punisher and daredevil argue about their methods is so good. Damn why don't we get more ideology fights. They are so much better than physical punches.
Did we "need" it? Probably not... but man was it good.
Did we need it? Probably not. Did we enjoy it? Hell yes we did.
@@kendalllowe7527 we needed it so shut up
man, I'll never understand people who liked that show. I thought it was dog trash with a few good scenes.
Generic story, extremely low budget, few fight scenes which were far between (season 2 had entire episodes without a single fight scene), and mediocre writing.
I hated it.
but Jon bernthal was awesome.
@@mr.doctorcaptain1124 man I'll never understand why people dislike punisher season 1. Season 2 was not that good but 1 was insane
@@HILAL19564 1 had its moments but not really that many. And the overall story was extremely generic with sub par writing
Castle explaining what happened to his family was utterly, utterly heartbreaking. I think the episode was called "Penny and Dime".
I'm not a comic book fan, it's one of those things just kind of passed by, so I have no idea of Bernthal's rendition of the character bears much resemblance to the source, but his performance on its own merits was excellent. He didn't just bring physicality, violence, menace to the role; he brought pain and anguish and vulnerability, and that was absolutely vital.
His chemistry with the other actors (especially whoever plays Matt Murdock but idk the actors name) is amazing and his acting in general was just so good!
@@nerdthatcantfit1079 Charlie Cox
@@nerdthatcantfit1079 Yeah his dynamic with DD is very good, considerably how very same but different they are. I wish we had more of them, but that's just asking a lot
@@goldenyuri3556 I wish we had more as well. Both of them had effective ways of doing something and from an outside point of view you can understand how they are both “right” but also understand why either one of would consider the other “wrong” the characters are amazing but the actors just made wit so much better. I forget the episode but remember the scene where daredevil saves The Punisher from that torture house and lays him in the graveyard to be arrested? That scene was so good! I knew the show was good but that scene just made me feel like it was up another level. People criticized season 2 for being more Daredevil and the Punisher rather then just Daredevil and honestly. Yeah, they are right to think but also I’m not complaining at all. If it was all daredevil we wouldn’t have gotten the epic prison fight scene
I think this is why there are people that enjoyed so much this version of the character over how much fans don't. To us fans, Punisher isn't a good guy, he's a dead man walking taking as many as he can to the morgue with him, while the new public that knows him from this show, to them he's Frank Castle, the family man that lost his wife and son, so he's much more emotional. To me, the show completely missed the point about the character, but hey, it's good to see it bringing new fans to the crowd.
Jon Bernthal should of been nominated for an Emmy for Season 2 for Daredevil and ill stand by that.
The cemetery monologue, the dialogue on the rooftop between Frank Castle and Matt Murdock, hands down the best acting in the entire MCU
I want to like your comment but it has 69 likes so I'll refrain from now.
Agreed
Both Cox and Bernthal deserved Emmys
@@Arjan72493 That rooftop convo is one of the best I've ever seen in any series. It's absolute perfection.
I’ve always known what the Punisher was but never cared to watch it. I’m not one to seek out gory videos or anything, and my first taste of the Punisher series was my friend showing me Frank’s torture scene. But I did want to watch Daredevil as I’m a huge Spider-Man fan and have always enjoyed their team ups. Daredevil season 2 and that rooftop scene were all it took for me to watch the Punisher.
While I agree that we probably didn't need more Punisher I still love Bernthal's version of the character
Agree. I was skeptical but he killed that role.
The writing was mediocre but I just had an amazing time just watching bernthal as punisher
Aside from Lundgren, he’s my favorite Punisher.
I don't think the point is that he shouldn't have gotten his own show. Just that it should've moved forward and not back. No more origin stories.
@@jaymontana2708 what about audiences who come to Punisher directly and not via DD?
I hope they bring Jon back in some capacity since Matthew Cox and Vincent D'Onofrio reprised their roles.
You mean Charlie Cox.
@@futurehistoryarchaeologist4480 hahaha
Matthew Cox lmao, Charlie Murdock*
@KoPHuLLloH Yeah, the fear/concerns that have been expressed by fans of these shows (which contrary to popular belief, weren’t produced by Netflix but companies owned by…Disney ) even before Netflix cancelled them. 🙄 Well, take ‘em or leave. Besides, there’s no doubt to many y’all these “untouchable” shows will never be matched no matter what (and again Netflix didn’t make them, they were licensed these shows by unkewl Disney).
@KoPHuLLloH And I just know if Matt Murdock in THE MCU is made to be more humorous and sarcastic (I know, it’s all jokey jokey in the MCU!), then obviously all those who keep expressing concern about the “Netflix characters” being ruined will go, “see, I told you so!” even if that personality would actually ring true to his comics counterpart.
Btw, better thank Marvel Entertainment for not allowing Marvel Studios to introduce Daredevil & Punisher in the films like they originally wanted to (this was back when a certain producer didn’t have control of Marvel as a whole) a decade ago otherwise these conversations wouldn’t exist. In any case, unkewl me welcomes different live-action interpretations of these Marvel legends (particularly if it’s well-done).
I think the show needed its own origin without having to watch another series. For those new to these characters like myself, it's appreciated.
i think people want a fast-track. it's simple-minded and self-centered "ive already seen this, so it sucks". If we left it up to the fanboys and quit putting in origin stories, then 50 years from now we will have a bunch of superheroes and villains with no backstory. All because the people who read the comics will be gone and newer generations wouldn't be able to relate to the characters as much since we didn't watch their origin unfold and were basically force-fed information with no emotional attachment. It's good for short term gain, but bad for the long-run. Those bitching about it are all about INSTANT GRATIFICATION. And they truly did nothing to earn it lol.
I was poor as shit growing up and rarely had the privilege of treating myself to a simple candy bar...so for me, I didn't get to read the comics and didn't have TV. So, I appreciate getting filled in on the backstory to these characters without having to go back and spend hours upon hours finding, buying, and reading vintage comics to catch up on the times. And if everything was a continuation with no origin....Marvel wouldn't be coming out with new movies because they couldn't hold the budget for good movies (another huge criticism) for the select fans who have watched from the start. You HAVE to put the origin in occasionally if you want to continue welcoming in newcomers and making profit for future movies.
The problem is that not only we already got an origin in 'Daredevil', they did it again TWICE in his own show. Punisher quitting again and again is like burying him and digging him out like he means nothing. We don't need to keep seeing his family get shot down all the time, much less him moping about it. Netflix was just too scared to show Punisher how he really is.
A lot of the people that I know that loved the Punisher had never watched any other Marvel show and generally dislike the superhero genre. So them not having to watch Daredevil is a bonus. While I agree that DD season 2 was Punisher's best outing...I still really enjoyed his series. I enjoyed it more than I've ever enjoyed Punisher in any medium..minus DD season 2 (and the early issues of Punisher 2099).
Agreed. The video is making the assumption that fans are already aware of this version of The Punisher. Why? Daredevil sucks. Why would I watch it when I could have a stand-alone Punisher? Is it the case (it is) that you need to start the story from the beginning for fans that ARE coming in for the first time, without having their life forces drained by the show Daredevil? (It is) And maybe they are trying, as Punisher fans, to bring others on board, but wouldn't want to subject their friends and family to the dreck that is Daredevil. (We are)
@@delpullen730 where does your assertion that DD is bad come from? That's definitely the minority opinion
@@delpullen730 Because he was heavily promoted for the daredevil series and his popularity in daredevil probably had a lot to do with him getting his own show. Besides Daredevil is on every level a better show, don’t know how someone got that take
@@delpullen730 you were starting to make a good point until you said Daredevil sucks.
@@delpullen730 "Daredevil sucks"
hahahahahaha, I hope you're joking. I seriously recommend you actually watch that show, buddy.
I’m with most people in the comments. I agree that DD season 2 was Punisher’s best outing but his own series was so good! I really wasn’t into the Punisher growing up because his comics weren’t that exciting to me and the movies (2004 and 2008) just didn’t cut it imo. After seeing Bernthal’s take on him, he got me hooked on more Punisher related stuff lol. I hope he comes back for the MCU!
Same, i also like the the Punisher own series.
@@mr.incredible9647 I know right! I was so hooked when I watched it. After it was over, I was so sad man lol. Can’t wait to see him again in DareDevil Born Again!
@@KQGMAN Yep, same.
DD sucks the punisher is wayyy better by far
@@dhi7058 Are you talking about the characters or the shows in general? Lol.
I’m hoping we get a season 3, we finally got to what we wanted, Frank dealing out punishment, a season of him just slaughtering criminals with a few mini arcs in each season would be AWESOME
I think Season 2's ending is fine enough as one though. It's as happy an ending that Frank could get. He knows what he has and wants to do. Man knows his purpose in life and is now delivering on it. As a character, he's complete and can now just be a supporting character to anybody else with more growing to do.
Then in Season 3, he tosses it away again, mopes and screams "Russo!" for another 10 episodes, to only in the final episode be the character we were expecting from the BEGINNING OF THE SHOW. No, thanks.
I mean he literally did lmao
I love all Punisher appearance in DD and both Punisher's seasons. Jon is the best Punisher at the moment.
The season 2 1st half Punisher scored then 2nd half focused on electra
you are 100% wrong you shouldnt have to watch other show or read the comic's in order to watch the show.
if a person didnt do those things season 2 wouldnt make any sence.
season 1 was necessary to understand season 2.
Season 2 was unnecessary, but Season 1 of Punisher was honestly beautiful, especially at the end. I wasn’t expecting an emotional breakthrough for Frank, but when he said he was scared at the end, I felt that shit 🥲
Please tell me you meant to talk about Iron Fist.
I didn't mind the origin story. As someone who was not a reader of comics and was introduced to the MCU through movies and tv it was an in depth look at the characters.
Hopefully just like Murdock and Fisk; Castle, Jones and Cage will appear in the next phase of the MCU. Rand idk.
It really wasn't an origin story, Daredevil acted as his true origin.
Imagine if a Spiderman movie/show kills Uncle Ben, and reveals that Uncle Ben's death was a part of a larger conspiracy instead of just being at the hands of a small time criminal. Punisher's family was killed by gangsters in the park because they saw the gangsters killing a man, it wasn't a part of a bigger conspiracy following the CIA like season 1 made it.
Also, yeah. I hope we get to see more of the Netflix cast being brought to the MCU. I believe that one of the main reasons Disney brought them to D+ was because Marvel intends to reintroduce some characters. I know that Jessica Jones is rumoured to return in She-Hulk, and a while ago (September/October 2021) Daredevil was rumoured in Spiderman NWH (came true), Kingpin was rumoured in Hawkeye (came true) and Punisher was rumoured in Moon Knight (yet to be seen). Also, Iron Fist is actually a cool character, and that one episode in Luke Cage S2 with him was actually pretty good. They had the chemistry (in the comics they have a bromance), and the two varying fighting styles was portrayed nicely. It's just that the writing team behind his own shows weren't that good, and the fight choreography (atleast in Season 1) was terrible.
i feel like it was less of a reliving of an origin story it was more frank being forced to relive the origin we were told about because he was forced to when taking on agent orange
And PLEASE recast Iron Fist!
@@yannickvaz694 Technically, DD Season 2 already alluded to the deaths of the Castle Family to be a part of a larger conspiracy, thus teasing Frank's solo series, by Schoonover vaguely mentioning something happening over in Kandahar.
@@FrancisCastiglione In the comics, the entire plot of Schoonover shipping drugs in bodies was pretty much the same. Frank was a part of his drug smuggling operation without knowing it, while one of the members of his unit turned against him. They didn't need to rewrite the cause of his family's death, but they chose to do it to create extra weight to the story.
The show had to be available to new viewers, so Season 1 made sense how it was written.
But wasnt it made for DD S2 watchers?
I largely agree doing the origin story again might feel like its unneeded I would make the argument that a lot of people did not see the old punisher movies... but got exposed to the punished via daredevil.
While daredevil s2 does a great job of introducing this punisher I still did enjoy getting the punisher having his own first season to if nothing else at least setup "the world" he is surrounded by. characters who will no doubt come back for later seasons. Skipping that and jumping straight into another story is fine, but id rather them do these kind of stories in s2 or future seasons of the punisher and they will feel even more cool cause characters you have well established here will be involved.
I also tend to lean towards things being more self sufficient if possible. If you started at s1 of punisher not knowing it was connected to these other shows and the show REQUIRED you to have seen them to understand anything that's happening you would be frustrated. If that were your first experience I doubt you would be very interested.
I never saw anything punisher except for S1 and the 2003 punisher. Did not even know daredevil was a thing. So I thought it was great. I went and watched daredevil afterwards just for punisher. I quite watching after season 2. daredevil was a winy leftist and i far preferred punisher I thought it as way better overall.
I would agree it might not have been neccesary to rehash his origin story but i thought the second season really brought his charachter forward, and was completely justified in having its own show. The way Frank comes to terms with who he is and tells evryone that like it or not this is what he does and who he is, and at the end of the season he becomes the fully fledged punisher, taking out bad guys and doing his own thing.
@@crazychase98 Ah Americans, the only people in the world that would use the word "leftist" as a pejorative. God bless the U.S of A
totally agree. i watched Punisher before i started daredevil so as a stand alone series / origin story i think it was very well done. and pretty interesting to go back and watch Daredevil S2 after that because it was like a prequel
@@Scraka If you rather include all liberals in with leftist be my guest I was trying to be nice about it. I considered them "leftist" my enemy. They hate my country. they hate my way of life. Most importantly they hate me.
I think the reason they redid the origin in the first season was for people who didn't watch Daredevil and only tuned in for The Punisher. It's believable as the name is big on it's own and naturally brings in new viewers that weren't already watching these shows.
I agree that season 1 was a retread but, with that said I think it brought more depth and emotional growth to the character as you had stated needed. Without season 1 we wouldn’t had been able to get to a more developed punisher with the moral compass he had at the end of season 2.
When I think about it, yeah they could've left off the whole punisher story after season 2 of DD, and it would've been fine. However I still loved the show, and I'm glad he got his own little series, and I hope they add more to it, along with DD, now that Disney bought it. I only hope they're just as good, and they aren't ruined by some Disney standard that makes them feel like completely different shows.
Your logic only works if you watched Daredevil first. What if the watcher didn't see the daredevil show? What if Netflix's punisher was the watcher's first exposure to the character? If these questions arent answered, you would be missing a huge amount of context that could only be provided by Daredevil, so the backtracking isn't for returning watchers but new watchers, from what I remember of the first season is that it does a good job of showing how things lead up to the second season daredevil.
I love Jon Bernthal's version of The Punisher, I really do believe him as this absolute monster of rage and killing machine. And I adore the more emotional beats, they're like the best moments due to the amazing acting on display. However, I do get other people's criticisms of this version. For example they say that he always retire the skull then coming back, Frank Castle would never do that. I always say "Fair point actually" I always defended that by saying it's for theatrical purposes. Thomas Jane is pretty good despite his film is abit iffy. I know about his short film and did the voice for the PS2 game, he seems like he truly understand the character but I can't picture him facing off 50 random guys in a room and they're absolutely bricking it like Jon's version does. My Punisher must have that relentless, animalistic nature to him, I feel like Jon's version nailed that.... Well it does that for me anyways
Episode 10 of the first season is some of the most intense television ever produced.
Second season of DD, we got an introduction, but NOTHING about a solution to what happened to his family. So I think this title is pretty off personally. Do you just move on from his family entirely?? While I agree it’s not perfect, but the story makes perfect sense to me.
Right I think the first season was supposed to be the pay off of what the S2 DD story set up.
DD s2 ends with him killing the last man responsible for the park massacre and then frank dedicates his life to fighting crime. But then Punisher season 1 fucks that up by having him retire at the start of the show for some reason and then he becomes a Jason bourne type because it turns out that the military orchestrated the attack that killed his family? Its all bs imo. Frank's origin didnt need to be turned into a conspiracy, and he should've just been a crime fighter in his own show
@@hefoughtabear118 All of that was for the sake of setting up the two antagonists, which in my opinion are very well written in their own right
@@squalo5218 if youre referring referring to rawlins and russo then yeah they were written well enough but they were incredibly redundant. They serves as motivation for frank to become the punisher again but the only motivation he should need is the idea of the satisfaction he gets from killing criminals
@@hefoughtabear118 Personally I thought the motivations for Frank's world view and actions in the first season were only really built upon. Regardless of the resolution we received in Daredevil, Frank is still a force of nature who turns vigilante justice into a warzone, and the lines being blurred between friend and foe (as we saw with Russo and Rawlins) only points out the biggest flaw Frank has. Slaughtering criminals regardless of what caused them to turn out the way they are and not providing any redemption. This is a question posed very often in Daredevil, but further elaborated when we are thrusted into the front seat of the violence in the Punisher.
Me seeing the title: No no no no wait wait wait wait
Edit: the title changed
I never saw Daredevil and I only knew the Punisher from this standalone. So I guess the first season was specifically made for me :) thx Netflix Marvel
Exactly. So what if I didn't want to watch daredevil? Now I HAVE to so I can get to know this character with their own series? Why? I seriously hate it when you have to watch another series in order to understand what is going on
@@fransheskajaimecamacho2629 Why wouldn't you want to watch Daredevil tho? It's literally peak CB television. And when Punisher came out DD was way more popular so most ppl would watch that 1st. Also Punisher in that show is much better characterized. Like seriously he has to be brought back to do his Punisher duties twice in his own ahow.
You would do yourself a favor and go back and watch that second season of Daredevil. In my opinion as an actor, I believe Jon Bernthal should of been nominated for an Emmy for his performance. He has a remarkable season in a graveyard with Charlie Cox that is some of the most heartbreaking scenes I’ve ever seen.
The "nerd" in "nerdstalgic" forgets that 90% of the audience knows nothing about the character he knows a lot about - from previous movies, from comic books or even other TV shows. A lot of people who would tune into the show didn't know or care about Daredevil enough to tune into 2 seasons of it to watch extensive cameo of the Punisher.
We could have started with Avengers - cause "everyone knows who Ironman/Captain America/etc is and there's plenty of source material out there". But instead those characters were introduced in their own movies - cause actually - not everyone knows them. And you can tell a compeling, new story around the characters and events that some people already know.
I really don't understand why people are bothered so much by Waynes or Uncle Ben being murdered, while not complaining that Joker was used more than once, so everyone knows that one. A story needs the be complete in it of itself. You can jump certain events causing character arcs and shaping the character willy nilly, cause some people already know them. We can't start a Spiderman movie, with "there was this boy, living with his aunt and uncle" to show his life as a normal but somewhat experienced by life kid and then jump forward a few weeks/months and maybe mention that during that time he lost his fatherfigure.
Also - not a jab at the nerdstalgic, but it was kind of ironic how in the single video how we shouldn't repeat ourselves if something has been established - that exact sentence/point was repeated all over video at random points. If that once established point needed to be repeated multiple times in the video to make a point and tell the story, maybe some of the things being retold in other series/movies/media also have a place and purpose, not just being done for the memes or to spite the fans.
@@HishamA.N_Comicbroe well basically I haven't had the time, but I didn't even watch the punisher when it first came out, I said it at a different comment but I am more of a casual consumer of comic related things. I didn't even had Netflix when the show came out lol I just started to watch this Netflix/Marvel shows recently, and the punisher was the first one to pop out and because I just love Jon bernthal I decided to give it a go
Absolutely loved season 1, and enjoyed it more than season 2.
While we may not have needed a full Punisher series, outside of his appearance in the Daredevil, I still loved watching both seasons of Bernthal's portrayal of the character.
"The show felt like it was spinning its wheels instead of moving forward" is such a good line!
Respectfully, i completely disagree. The ''origin story'' we got for Punisher in DD was just a hint of more to come, which then needed to be expanded upon and fleshed out in Punisher season 1. There is also the factor which you did not take into consideration, the fact that a lot of people, me included, watched the punisher series before watching DD, without the first season of punisher exploring Frank's backstory and motivation, a lot of people would be left a bit confused. Punisher was of course a well known character before the series and i knew very well why he did what he did, but it could still end up turning some people off off the show. Also as much as i like your videos it was a bit ironic how, in a video where you talked about the punisher rethreading already established backstory, you sort of just repeated and rethreaded the same argument over and over.
But at the end of the day, regardless if i agree with your points and opinions, a very well made video.
I feel that Season 1 is a great show on its own. The pacing, the tension and drama is all done very well, but it doesn't feel like The Punisher.
Season 2 wasn't as good with its pacing, and the two plots didn't blend well together. However, it worked much better for the character as a whole. If the season only focused on the Amy Bendix/Pilgrim storyline, it would have been the perfect follow up to his introduction in Daredevil, and also a great Punisher show on its own.
Russo having also one cut in his face was incredibly dissapointing, Castle destroyed his face and in the comics you can see how mess uo he looks, he truly has the best plastic surgeon in history
Yes in season 2 , they were just trying to make him more like wolverine to make more likable I suppose , not sure what they were going for but it was far from what we saw in daredevil season 2 , coz I can see why some people would not like the character in daredevil, they tried to make him more likable so people atleast root for the guy but ended up ruining the character ( for me atleast) , I do agree that the Amy story worked for what they were going for
@@justanotherblackwhitemicke7817 Yeah if you ask me, Jigsaw never felt like Jigsaw, not just with his look.
In season 1 he felt more like Sniper (I can't remember his name). He was a part of Castle's unit in Vietnam with Schoonover in charge. When he found out about them shipping drugs in KIA's bodies, instead of ratting out Schoonover, he joined their plan and helped kill all the other remaining members of the unit for money.
In season 2 he felt more like Salvatore Carbone (as Thorn). Most known for being Rosalie Carbone's uncle, Sal was one of the main men with the Carbone crime family, second only to his brother. After Frank "kills" him (he leaves him trapped under ice), he was found and taken to the hospital, only to wake up from a coma with his memory erased. After this, the only thing he sets out to do is kill the man who was responsible without knowing who he was or why he did it.
Season 1 has some of the best empathetic characters I've ever seen. Top to bottom you feel what they do or for at least for them. I even felt bad for the stolen valour guy, he's just so... alone. I legit was snarling at my TV when they revealed Russo betrayed the Castles, because that's how I would feel if a brother betrayed me. It explores a ton of themes and constantly explores the idea of right VS wrong and what they mean to us when chasing what we want, and what we might have to give up as a cost.
I didn't watch DD right away because Cage, Jones and Iron Fist were so bad. I figured it would be another show resembling shitty cable TV (like the Flash and Supergirl). When I did give DD a chance, the first 4 episodes were so slow I gave up. I actually felt like Daredevil dragged its feet. Watching Punisher made me go back and give DD another chance and I'm happy for that because DD was AWESOME as well.
I really hope Disney finds a way to pick back up with DD and Punisher. They're both awesome and need to be expanded upon.
I’d say give Cage and Jones another try. Their first seasons are pretty good. Iron fist isn’t so good but there are a some good to decent performances in it.
Yeah I agree with what the other guy said. Jessica Jones season 1 is really great, and Luke Cage season 1 has a pretty good first half
@@eanderson9599 Agreed but luke cage really went down hill after they killed off cottonmouth and season two was just bizarre. Bushmaster was cool but the whole Mariah and Shades plotline was atrocious, so was Lukes relationship with Claire.
@@deezybeibii I actually enjoyed season 2 of Ironfist for the most part but daredevil was so consistently amazing that it really left the other shows lookin pale in comparison, probably more than they actually deserved.
@@TrashPanda90914 I actually agree with you. Iron Fist season 2 was better than the first season. Although I’d honestly say Jessica jones was on par with DD, at least the first season and some of the second. Luke Cage almost got there but I’d be lying to say that it did.
Question... Was there a 2nd season of Punisher guaranteed when the writers put together season 1? I would say the answer is "no". For that reason, they gave us what we wanted at the time: justice and redemption. The Daredevil episode "Penny and Dime" made us change how we thought of Frank Castle and the subsequent episodes made us want justice for a man wronged by those he trusted. Punisher Season 1 gave us that and it fell in line with how Season 1's of the other Netflix MCU series were presented to us. Sometimes, the cash grab ruins things (talking to you, Hot Tub Time Machine 2).
The Punisher season 2 could have brought in Rachel Cole-Alves based on Greg Rucka's run. What I loved about that storyline was it allowed Frank to see from a distance how someone like him was made and it gave Frank a choice-- choose to allow Rachel to become him or steer her to a different path. That would bring back that same grey morality that worked in DD S2.
@@rumblefish9 what did Punisher do?
Oh really 1 episode dude? The punishers entire seasons were amazing id watch that over DD any day and I never seen DD
While I can understand your points, I have to say that an origin story was still needed for a standalone series as I for example have not seen Daredevil but yet wanted to watch the Punisher. This way I could do so and enjoy it without watching Daredevil
Why would you want to watch this shit show when Daredevil is literally 10000000x better
@@baronhelmutzemo8361 Well Daredevil was unavailable on Netflix at the time that I started watching Punisher. Also I find the main actor of Daredevil quite unlikeable, which is why I haven't watched it since
I personally like the Punisher a lot more than Daredevil. There are some characters in Daredevil that I really dislike, like Foggy. Every character in The Punisher is interesting and I want to see more of them. When the second season ended, I was actually sad that I couldn't see Frank and all the others anymore.
I agree with what you say about how it doesn’t delve into his morality enough in S1 but I’m not really sure how it’s another origin, and don’t see what it shows us that we already know, aside from seeing things that were alluded to. My biggest problem is that it focuses less on Frank and more on some grand conspiracy that I don’t understand.
Daredevil season 2 has frank going on a rampage throughout NYC to kill the people who killed his family. Punisher season 1 is literally about the same thing except they threw in a convoluted conspiracy story
@@hefoughtabear118 Yeah, i'm glad TP Season 2 went for a more traditional Punisher storyline, AKA actually fighting gangsters, mobsters and criminal organizations.
I love your analyses, they're always thoughtful and insightful, but we're not on the same page with this one. Punishers origin story is find and kill, on screen the only origin story has been in a movie. They took advantage of the opportunity to go deeper into what makes the punisher with visual violence, and it made you feel what makes him, in an unsettling way. You definitely make good points about how they execute on some of the scenes, but if you look through the perspective of the Netflix series being the first time the punisher hit the screen.. I think it's 11/10
I think the issues with this version of the punisher really do start with Daredevil S2 as great as his storyline in that season was. By making the death of his family easily blamed on a few people in power ordering it it gives an end goal, if Frank kills all the people responsible for the murder of his family why is he even the punisher anymore, if the death of his family isn't a horrible random tragedy it takes away maybe the most core motivation of his character in the comics because now you have to work way harder to justify why the story is even happening
If Frank went wild and started violently killing people because his family was tragically killed he wouldn't be likeable, I don't even know he would be redeemable.
It has to have been done by specific people he can kill because revenge is a justifiable reason to do what he did, heartbreak is not.
@@jeffdredd1172 the punisher being likeable and redeemable is not the point of the character, he is the worst case scenario
Because he makes sure it doesn't happen to other people he wants rid evil people regardless of why they killed his family it was an evil act to innocent people so he stands up for the innocent
As someone who likes the punisher but doesn't want to watch Daredevil or really any of the other movies or TV shows, I really liked the approach of having this be something that can stand on its own.
I think channels like this assume all of us are watching all of these different shows and movies and everything else. Some of us want an origin story for a character because we didn't watch 95 other pieces of content to explain that to us.
I don't necessarily always want an origin story but I didn't mind it here at all.
You won’t regret watching daredevil, believe me
Why don’t you want to watch Daredevil it’s the best marvel Netflix show
@@erikgain1294 don't have time. Watched a couple of episodes, wasn't really into it. Moved on.
@@randyireland8327 Alr that’s fair
@@randyireland8327Daredevil is 1000000x better than this Punisher shit show
You had us in the first half with that title ngl
He played the punisher perfectly in daredevil he seemed alot more psychotic! Loved it.
Not sure why i never came across your vids before. But these are good insights. Good job man! You got a new subscriber.
This video is a great example of how something unnecessary can still become indispensable. Those two seasons are amazing. Some of the best Marvel work yet.
You are 100% correct, sir
punisher was a shit show with terrible acting lmao
Your saying the origin story is unnecessary, but it is the best live action origin we have ever seen from the punisher. "No nuanced dialogue" huhh? frank did it all with one sentence "I am home" frank is a killer and a monster and he accepts it, while still being able to aim his rage and murder on the right people. Honestly I love daredevil best marvel show hands down, but it is bullshit that I have two watch two whole seasons if I want to watch the punisher.
Yeah frank doesn't even become the true punisher until the end of season 2 of his show so it is bs
I didn’t see Daredevil so I’m glad they put his origin story in The Punisher.
I really felt that Punisher S1 was actually not bad at all. I didn't feel like they focused too much on Frank's trauma cuz they focused so much on his relationship with Jigsaw
I would watch 10 season more of bernthals punisher. I really wish they did more
Nah, it was good
I personally thought the introduction of the Punisher in season 2 of DD was epic. However, I really had a hard time getting through the 2 seasons of his own series. I couldn't connect to any of the characters except maybe Curtis. ITA agree with the views presented in this video . I do think Jon Bernthals' portrayal of this character is the best I've seen overall.
Frank Castle is probably my favorite Marvel character
Punisher and Daredevil having that rooftop debate the best thing that came from the Netflix marvel shows
Whats the background music?
I agree. He felt more like The Punisher in season 2 of Daredevil than he did in either season of his own show.
as many people have said, yeah sure we knew his background already from DD, but god damn it was still a good seasons. especially if someone hadn't seen DD previously! its such a good first season
Love all the content
Completely agree great vid man
Thank you! This is the very first time i see anyone acknowledging this. The series was good, but it was still a missed opportunity, there was no necessity to re introduce him 3 times back to back. After the Daredevil introduction, the Punisher should've taken a "Smallville" type of approach, one new bad guy every episode, with 1 or 2 main villains per season, pretty much a bounty hunter series, taking names and kicking ass every single episode, then we would've got the real visceral Punisher that everyone wants. But noooo netflix took 3 seasons total for Frank to finally embrace his alter ego and be out there every night cleaning the streets, until the last 2 minutes of the finale, just in time to get canceled.... 👏 👏 👏 👏
This show was awesome, just pure violence and fighting its one of those turn your brain off shows
2:57 your comparison of Frank and Matt here reminds me of one of my fave conversation moments in The Devil, Inside and Out, the Brubaker story where Matt is in prison. Frank gets himself put in prison and when he talks to Matt about it, he says this:
"I wanted to see it for myself. What it looks like when you turn into me."
Very clearly painting the line that he sees Matt about to cross.
Daredevil stories have always been told with a great supporting cast, like Black Widow, Elektra and the Punisher, etc.
The punisher is so cool and great video man :]
The title is some how a dig at both shows but also a compliment to both
I know it's not gonna happen, but I would love to see a Punisher rendition in the style of the Joker movie and the newest Batman.
It's a fairly complex character that would be delightful to see dissected more seriously and philosophically about his morals, PTSD, justice, and how violence and war can affect someone.
Loved both seasons of the punisher! Jon is just amazing in the role!
If there's ever a cereal brand movie in the future, I can't wait for Hollywood to show us the deep, complex and nuance origin story of Tony the Tiger.
Your sentence reminds me of whenever a younger interpretation of Batman is introduced and people always have to say "dark and gritty" when referring to him
*COMPLETELY* agree, you summarized it so well you .ade the analysis look easy XD
Hell no, man, I'm glad they made a punisher series. It was fucking astonishing
Is this a reupload? I could've sworn I seen this before
i never saw season 2 of daredevil and i wasnt aware of the character's story, i just new the punisher punishes bad guys and is the hero for military want to bes
Y'all remember the time Punisher just clocked Spider-Man and took his webshooters
Oh come on!!! Jon Bernthal I can’t get enough of him
I like 04 Punisher best. It felt like that punisher depended more on the character, where other punishers have been more focused on the action.
My issue is how they turned Frank’s family’s deaths into a massive government conspiracy, when it should just be wrong place, wrong time.
Bernthal killed it in The Punisher role! What acting man 🔥🔥🔥🔥
omigosh i just noticed how every grunt who kills martha wayne has to rip her pearl necklace lmao
Personally I never could get into daredevil so I never got that intro to the punisher so I thought that it was still pretty good as an origin story
I just want to know when we're going to have more of the Punisher with John Bernthal
Fully agree, Punisher was his most comfortable and confident as a vigilante and who he is in Daredevil. In his own show, he doubts too much and does so little punishing. I'm afraid I'm getting sick and tired of shows pulling their punches to "humanize" an already human character. The new Halo show is another proof of this... just done way, way worse.
Agreed, it's so watered down. Like you came to watch Punisher actually be Punisher yet we're given a diet Jason Bourne-lite middling show.
I would've loved if he became an ongoing cameo in the Daredevil series and then joined up in the Defenders. I am grateful for Punisher as season 1 was great.
I’m obsessed with Bernthal as Frank. His casting and the work he put in training for the fight choreography is fucking perfect.
That may be, BUT. Think about those who are watching this for the first time and not Daredevil
i saw the punisher without ever having heard of daredevil and i was really happy about it being able to be watched as a stand-alone
IVE BEEN MAKING THIS ARGUMENT FOR YEARS THANK YOU
Great point with the philosophical and moral challengers. A physical match, often mirroring power sets can be fun and has proven so in many of the superhero genre. But, often this is relied upon and doesn’t serve as a compelling villain or mirror for the hero’s emotional struggle. When you add in the conflicting views and morals, now you elevate the movie/series as well as your hero and this leaves a lasting impression on the audience that you can’t but with a million dollar CGI battle.
More Punisher is never a bad thing.
Do you need to watch DD season 1 to enjoy DD season 2 ? (I'm only interested in Punisher part so I'm thinking about skipping DD 1)
Don't do that. Daredevil is one of the best shows of all time.
You read my mind i was thinking the exact same thing
I hear what your saying but i love season 1...got a soft spot for it tbh...hope we see more of him
Season 1 summarized: HWAAAAAAAAAH! RUSSOOOOOOOOO!
Also: MUUHHHDAHHNIII
Not everyone wants to watch 2 entire seasons of Daredevil or read a bunch of comics before watching a new series.. I didn’t even know he was a part of daredevil till’ after I had watched TP
Ah, my favourite Garth Ennis comic, "The Preacher". ;) :P
Loved the punisher and I didn’t watch daredevil so i didn’t know his origin story which explains why they did it obviously for the new viewers and to understand him in a way, I did and I was hoping for more but now im going to start to watch daredevil heard it’s good and can’t wait!
I only watched Netflix´ The Punisher and I loved both seasons!!!!!! I didnt knew this character before and season 1 was a perfect indtruduction for me
He might not have needed more backstory for the hardcore fanbase, but it's a Netflix show. 99% of people watching dont read comic books so imo the first season was completely necessary to set up the backstory so subsequent seasons could get into the good stuff, it just sucks they canceled it after only 2 seasons
Whether or not it was needed it was sure as hell entertaining
I seen the punisher show first and just finished daredevil, I don't mind the origin story being told in the punisher series as I wouldn't have known what bernthal's punisher story was exactly. Seeing it in daredevil afterwards was just icing on the cake.
I agree characters like him and boba fett work are at their best as side characters.
Wow, I like your analysis of the series but I think this is the first time I have completely disagreed with a nerdstalgic video. Idk why but I love season 1 of the Punisher, and thought season 2 was lacking. Good video however, love the channel!
Wrong on this one. It was amazing and expanded upon his guilt.
No, it turned Frank into jason bourne, his familys death into a convoluted conspiracy, and made him a coward by making him retire the punisher persona at the beginning of his own show even though Daredevil set him up to be a vigilante. They could expand upon his guilt and all that without betraying the essence of the character but they didnt
Kevin Nash took a knife in the chest to not even be mentioned 😢