I bought a shrinking disc back in the 1980s from a Japanese guy at the Pomona swap meet. It was called Sun something?. The way he demonstrated it was amazing. He beat up a fender with a hammer and used that disc and it took the dents out in no time. A true professional and a salesman. I bought it and tried it and didn’t get the results . With no instructions how can you get the same results.So I just hung it up in my garage as a display of a tool that I couldn’t use. Pretty much forgotten. Seeing your videos on it is making me understand it better. It only took 40 years. I was 18 at the time and I spent close to a $100 of my hard earned money on it and felt a bit suckered. I had a 1956 ford pickup and every panel was really dented up. Now I have a 356 in the same condition. It’s been rolled over and the front fender torn off. I’m making a fender with your flexible gauge system and it’s working pretty good. I was getting ready to make a buck and I found your videos and your system makes things easier Thanks regards Andre Tardif
You bought the original style Shrinking disc from Ken Sakamoto of Sunchaser. He bought the shrinking disc business from his mentor Scott Knight. He is still around. I too bought that style of shrinking disc from Scott Knight in the 1986. It has the ruffles on the edge and as you use it the outer edge turns into a serrated knife edge. I came up with the smooth and safe edge design plus mine are thicker and last longer. I also crested the first smaller 5" shrinking disc. The shrinking disc concept goes back to the 1930s. I have been making and selling my safe edge version now for over 20 years. Thanks for watching my channel, hope to be back soon. I have been super busy.
@@proshaper Your absolutely right it is Sun chaser’s. I woke up in the middle of the night and remember it. He seemed like a really nice guy and he drew a crowd when he demonstrated it. So I bought it and thought it couldn’t be hard. I think he offered classes on it at the time but I just had enough to just buy it. I’m going to dust it off and try it out on my hood, roof and rear end of the 356 after I cut it out. I have done a lot of rust repair on all my cars in the past 40 years but never made a fender. Mostly floor repairs which any monkey can do. I bought this wrecked and stripped down 356 just because I didn’t want to pay for a nice one. A lot of hidden rust so that’s what I’m working on right and now and finally l am coming out of the rusty woods and just need the floor pans installed. Going to leave them out till I get the roof straightened out. Your videos are a great help Thanks for your response
This is only one of many many things you will learn if you take one of Wray’s classes. Worth every penny for a lifetime of knowledge plus it’s a lot of fun…
Cracked me up when . . . "I just lost my sandblasting audience" . . . "There I just lost my Bondo audience" haha new subscriber here to help make up for the loss. Great info.
My dad used to work for George Barris Custom Rods many moons ago. He helped build the Munster Mobile and the Pink Panther car and some others. I used to help him as soon as I could walk. Now he is gone and I find myself wandering what some of the tools he left behind are used for. I know a fair amount and can do some amazing stuff but always like learning old school tricks. And I appreciate you taking the time to show us all. I like working with metal, I do a lot of fiberglass work on boats and custom cars with a lot of curves. I like a good challenge anymore lol.
seen hundreds of body work videos over the years, yet you cover stuff I've never seen! made a subscriber out of me. will definitely be using your techniques when I take on the challenge of my 75 duster.
I LOVE FRANK dropping in. Seriously it shows how down to earth and humble Wray is. I am so happy a face book friend recommended this channel for me to learn from. Merry Christmas Frank and Wray and everyone watching :)
Great video Wray! You are a real craftsman so statements from you about sandblasting and Bondo should be eyeopeners for everyone. You inspired me to go buy good quality bodyhammers, dollys and a slapper. Thanks you very much for sharing your knowledge with us!
I've seen and committed some filler atrocities.. I admit it , for quick jobs . I've been weaning off , thanks to your videos , I been a better body worker of late. Have a great holidays and a happy new year !
28:33 "I just lost my sandblasting audience". 39:46 "I lost all the bondo audience now"... 28:48 "It's funny when you have strong statements on anything you lose half your audience"... SUBSCRIBED!!! Second video watched,... Already a favorite. Wealth of knowledge. And as an old guy, TheOldGuyPhil, I don't care what people that are wrong think! ;) I wish my cousin was alive to watch you,... He would love you too.
I'm an old guy too, on the outside 72 years. I have 60 years of experience working on collector cars. Started when I was 12 working at my grandfather's restoration shop.
I'm honored you commented. I know I speak for the community - Thanks for opening your shop and sharing your wealth of knowledge, tips and tricks, and producing great quality videos! @@proshaper
Thank you so much. I have used and continue to use these skills you are teaching to restore my 1951 Dodge power wagon. I heartily agree about sandblasting and Bondo. I used the sandblaster on the frame rails only. This technique also requires patience which I have also had to learn!
Wray you are clearly a true master of a disappearing art. And having hand-worked many a panel over the past four decades, I won't deny the satisfaction that comes from doing a filler-free contour restoration, and the knowledge after the fact that the panel is as good as new. However... The chemical engineering that produces modern, high-end polyester fillers is in another universe relative to the "Bondo" that we used 30 years ago. I'm betting that that nose is still going to receive a coat of catalyzed glaze, or at least a round or two of 2K high build primer/blocking before paint. So the question is, apart from doing the service of maintaining the knowledge and practice of a disappearing art that saved a lot of lead back in the day, is it really "necessary" to straighten a panel past the point where the painter's "bag of tricks" will more than suffice to produce a perfectly straight contour that will most assuredly outlast the paint itself?
I bought a disc and DVD combo from wray around 6 yrs ago, works awesome, i find it addictive to get it as smooth as possible, Thanks wray, keep the vids comming
Hi Paul, funny how that works, you learn the process to smooth a panel and your panel perfection goalpost just keeps moving. As you say it is addictive. 😁😁😁 Panel shaping is very similar, your skill sets keep getting better and better but the hunger to improve more just keeps gnawing away.
this video was helpful. i've been running my 5" shrinking disc without the backing pad. that will be on my next harbor freight run. that little 2" orbital you introduced me to a year ago or so is also a total winner.
I REMEMBER USING A SHRINKING DISC LIKE THIS ON MY INGERSOL RAND GRINDER AT HIGH SPEED,,THINK IT WAS MADE BYE FERRO INDUSTRIES ,,WAS HAPPY WITH THE RESULTS IT GAVE ME ,,,THANKS FOR THE VIDEOS
I have made and sold shrinking discs for over 20 years. I created the first safe edge 9" shrinking disc and the 5" shrinking disc. Available at my website www.proshaper.com.
I WLD NEVER HAVE THOUGHT TO USE A "FLAPPER" HAMMER,LIKE THE ONE USED IN THIS VIDEO. BUT,AS ALWAYS THE PROOF IS IN THE PUDDING!! AWESOME VIDEO, INSTANT SUB!!
Just saw first shrinking disc vidio and very impressed with this method. I really dont do any bodywork but like thousands of other people, I try to fix whatever needs repair round here and always happy to add anything helpful to my arsenal of tips and tricks, After seeing those markers dry up so quickly, I would like to suggest that you (develope/market) a refillable marker to include in your shrinking disk kit. Who knows maybe, after the initial sale of disks, these markers and ink could be a staple product sale for your company. Also possibly even a wider applicator tip. Let me know. Thanks M L Rogers Pasadena,TX
Very informative video, thanks for posting this. I recently purchased your large and small disc set. I was having issues with the locking nut bottoming out on the inner flange that comes with the Makita (central hub support) before the 9” disc became tight. This would leave the locking nut above the surface of the disc. After trying numerous configurations, what I found to work for me was to use one 5/8 washer, then the 5” backing plate, then the 9” backing plate, then the 9” disc, then the locking nut. My 9” disc is tight now and the locking nut is recessed below the surface.
Yeah I have to say, right when he said he had it dipped the camera was pointing at at least 50 spot welds that will never stop rusting unless they rinsed it really well and treated every single weld with that sealer that will seep into the pinch weld and even go vertical around the weld. I personally would never dip something with a pinch weld or anything that is impossible to sand and reseal.
Wonder how he feels about fiberglass? He can say what he wants, I will still watch. Wrey's talent is Great, even better since he is passing this knowledge on to you Mortals!
@@cinderswolfhound6874 I realize that, I have a 74 CJ5 with a full fiberglass body, besides the windshield brace. I am meaning as in using fiberglass. He is working on some boats, and I can't wait till he works on the the fiberglass on those to get some tips, and tricks. I was just tryin to be funny from his statement.
Firstly thanks for another video & merry Christmas Wray. A good instructional video on slapping irregularities out & using the disk. I will refute your sandblasting dislike though :). As a refinisher as well as a metal guy the best purpose of blasting is the key it provides. The epoxy applied over a good key prior to any finishing work, and sandwiching any filler or spray fill with epoxy greatly enhances metal protection over the years. I've etched E-type center panels with 0 warpage. Fine media ( worn 60+ screen nickle slag usually), nozzle angle, nozzle distance & blast pressure , experience & common sense are all required of course. Blasting to remove old coatings though is a no no. Aircraft strip, chem dip to reach bare metal first and it's not an issue. I will epoxy panels that I won't be working immediately post strip simply to protect from humidity & flash rusting. But it is nice to see you are moving towards another section of the E-bonnet. That was what drew me here in the first place. Thanks again!
Seems like there's more than enough things to sandblast that are better suited to it than thin ga sheet metal so sandblasters shouldn't be too upset. I don't know that I've ever seen a high end restoration or fab shop use a sandblaster on thin steel that it will deform so ya good advice Wray.
Great video thanks, the part that I find confusing is that you want to shrink the highs and stretch the lows on one side, but if the panel is flipped over the lows are now high. If I use the shrinking disc it will be shrinking the areas that I want to stretch on the other side. That was confusing to type...lol
Merry Christmas Wray and crew! Thanks for sharing all your knowledge this year. I can't wait to get another project car and another E-wheel to start beating and shaping panels again.
Thanks Greg! I hope you consider building your own English wheel using my frame plans. We have finally started making the lower anvils using the CNC lathe I purchased, for that purpose.
@@proshaper I definitely like the one you showed the construction of on your channel. I'll probably start there and modify as needed or I'll go old-school and make one that uses plate sides infilled with 1/4" strap... If you're making anvils, I'll buy them from you. I was going to machine my own, but I'd rather support your efforts. I have enough other stuff to keep my machines busy.
I agree with the Anti Sandblast sentiments having seen lots of panels on some ver expensive projects destroyed. Another pet hat is soda blasting, Especially if a car was blasted and still partially assembled. The damned stuff gets into corners and wiring looms causing a chemical reaction when electricity is passed down the wires. The only way to strip a car /boat/aeroplane is sheer hard work .
That's interesting idea... I bet that works great.. because the threads fit loose so when you tighten it by hand it's always being influenced off center... I Sometimes do that when putting wheels on just for fun but I'm gonna test with an indicator someday
@@ianbuilds7712 like the indicator idea but so many variables pads backing pads nuts grinder ect. If its not quite there this way loosen off and try again centrifugal force will win over any marks. when i learned this polishing made things so much better there is micro balance you can never mark out ask a machinist
forgot to add Merry Christmas and Happy new year . and thank you for these videos know how much it takes to make them. Vary much appreciated and hope to pass the skills on down to my son.
I agree about sand blasting totally, it just warps the metal I did a series three E type and the sandblaster warped it so bad it took three days to straighten the panel. I used a skim coat of glaze in a couple of areas but mostly primer filler.
Mostly you watch the footprints left by the dolly slapper interaction. The only time you don't care about the footprints is when you are moving the arrangement of the metal, that is done with the dolly acting solely as a fulcrum, and the slapper as a lever. Arrangement is bending with no stretching.
Hi Wray. I’ll buy the hub and nut if you start making them. The nut on my grinder doesn’t fit into the recess of the disc. I have two large discs set ups and a small one. I hope to get see you this summer for another class. Thanks for the videos.
Because he’s using the shrinker as flatness checker and that’s not what it’s used for. Just because someone has been doing something for a long time doesn’t mean he’s doing it right. I am baffled to find out this guy is a supposed professional.
I like to use some 180 grit glued to a thin still of perspex to highlight my highs and lows. (magic wand) I place it flat and rub it over the surface from each direction to show the mapping of the material
Saludo desde Cuba ¿ maestro como puedo lograr similitud entre los guarda barros derecho y izquierdo? Porfavor soy muí pobre y no tengo mucho recurso tengo que acerlo yo mismo ten 5 años sin lograr mi cacharrito estoy aprendiendo con sus vídeos de UA-cam
Frank showing up was Funny, you should have him in your videos more often! P.S. -- SANDBLASTING SUCKS -- If you do any blasting at all it should be Soda Only, Soda will NOT Warp or Ruin the metal surface..
I'm a huge fan of vapor blasting. I've done several motorcycle engines and smaller car parts in the past couple years and the results, especially on cast aluminum, are nothing short of amazing.
@Scott Robinson In my experience it clogs sanpaper no matter how thin you try to spray it. they make a sprayable guide coat, but i've never used it so I can't say whether it's any good.
@@steven-ky2ps I use spray ink. It comes in aerosol cans that are designed to used upside down ,so you point down hill when spraying. It doesn't stick completely to steel and dries quickly. mostly used for marking pallets etc.
You keep saying you’ve lost this crowd or that crowd. I’m kinda in both crowds, I believe everything is a tool, even my favorite hammer isn’t ideal for every job. My sand blast cabinet is useful for some things not for others, the more I learn the less I need body fillers. But it’s still a tool. But good info and thanks for sharing…
Question Time! 1. When using the either size Shrinking Disc do you want the disc to be as flat as possible when making contact with the work piece? Or is it alright to use just a portion of the disc when making contact? 2. When you are using the Body Dollie with the Slapper where should the Dollie be placed? Dead center of the low spot or do you start on the outer portion of the low spot & work your way towards the center of the low spot? 3. When you are using the Slapper where should you be making contact with the work piece? Do you want to hit only on the outer areas or do you want the dollie to be directly beneath when striking? I believe it's referred to as contact & non-contact. 4. Wouldn't the Shrinking disc cause warping on newer cars that are made of Shitty thin metal? 5. What is the life expectancy of the Shrink Disc? Say an average of 4hrs use 5 days a week? 6. Can the Shrink Disc's be cleaned or smoothed of any build up? 7. Is there an optimal size/weight Slapper to use? Or is it personal preference? Any feedback would be appreciated.
I have been using shrinking discs since 1985. I started out with Scott Knight's original ruffled edge style until 2000 when I came up with the 9" diameter safe edge smooth design, and the 5" diameter disc. I have been selling them since. I have several copy cats on both designs stealing from me everyday....
@@proshaper did you patent it? Can u patent it?.. It's a smooth disc on a grinder I bet the guy with the ruffled edge would say yours is a slightly modified copycat of his.. I bet his started as a smooth disc before he added ruffles lol.. the quality of your stuff is among the best but to say you're the only/first guy to think of that is silly. I make my own discs because the diameter and shape is a constant compromise... I made slightly bowl shaped one to get inside curves and I use it a lot... I'd never try to sell them tho I'd lose my shirt...
@@proshaper Thanks! I think I recall some of your earlier videos with the ruffled design. Unfortunate on the copy cats, I can say I have the genuine article!
Anyone, with even a little knowledge about sheetmetal work should know that sandblasting is the worst thing you can do to a panel. Of course there are people that'll say, "I've sandblasted sheetmetal for years, with no problems". That's when I shut up and walk away from the conversation, because I already know the caliber of work produced by them.
Wray,I know it's a simple task,but could you make a video of which tools and whatnot you use for paint removal? Grinders,wire wheels,the best type for fast removal. Thank you,and happy new year! Phil.
Haha, "down with sandblasting!" I like stripping the paint where the metal os good but if the car is pitted or bare rust as in a field find i prefer sandblasting so you can really get into the surface. I know Wray wouldnt waste his time on "ratty" cars but I think some are worth saving and stripper and rust converter just doesnt get into the pits like a good crushed glass wet vapor blast. Oh AND I also put epoxy primer on which Wray hates but all the metal work gets done before epoxy so i dont know why you'd do metal work afterwards. I get it for super high end cars like hes working on that will never see rain again in their lives but my stuff does as they are at least half daily drivers. Still so much to learn from Wray though on so many other techniques!
I am sure there must be a optimal temp range for this procedure. Just a thought if you laser temp the metal when you are using the shrinking disk. It would give us a range of temp to get the steam effect. The laser temp sensors are cheap. For people watching your videos. Some people might be over doing it or under doing it. We have no way of knowing.
Wray, I notice the slapper marks show up in the low fields. Is this on-dolly? I supposed you would push up the lows with the dolly while slapping the surrounding ridge in an off-dolly manner. Sorry for the rudimentary question. Fascinating stuff. Merry Christmas!
Yes, it is both off and on dolly. Off at first until they start clashing together. Off dolly is changing the arrangement value. On dolly in changing the area value.
around 15:50's I am assuming you are slapping around the marking perimeter of a hollow with the dolly underneath and when you work a hump you slap the centre of a marked area again with the dolly underneath.
An English wheel is too big to get into the area. I do have a mobile planishing hammer with several hoops, that is another video. Most people don't have a mobile planishing hammer, hence the slapper and dolly method. Often times the slapper and dolly is the only method you can use. You should know both methods.
I've got a chance to use the wheels. Incredible. However I noticed if I try to shrink a small area I warm it up with the disk and then the metal swells and so I dolley it down. But I cannot get the swell to go back to where its flatter than what it was. I believe these places being on a fender of a 49 chevy truck had already been worked. But it appears they didn't do anything but stretch the metal outward. Maybe once stretched is why I cannot get it to go flat again completely. So if I do it several times the swell grows as always, then I hammeer it down and cool it with air, and it never becomes flat or concave as much as I need it to. I did larger areas as wel and found that I could not reduce the metal to where it was perfectly flat again. Seemed the swelling metal just gets bigger and bigger the harder I work! Perhaps too much working of this same stretched metal area? I'm using air to cool the metal after hammering it back to as flat as I can. No matter what though I still have a high that filler won't cover. I cannot reduce it with the heat shrinking disk. I did go back and take a torch to this same area and got it red hot in about several dime sized areas and those I was able to pound back flat. Just couldn't do it with the disk, no matter how long or how hot I got it, perhaps it never did get hot enough to reverse the expansion? Any suggestions would be of great HELP?
I spent $15 dollars in markers only to find out they didn’t work very well. Big markers won’t keep marking. They go dry. They didn’t last or work and it takes forever to cover the size of a hood. I keep alternating several markers but it takes so much efforts. Is there any other solution for marking the metal ? And having this lubrication? Also you basically are hammering down an already flat surface. The body I work in are severely high spots as much as 1/4 to 1/2 inch stretched high spots. The more I bang them in the further out the highs of the metal rises.
So fucking good you ve lost morons from sandblasting and bondo! So fucking cool! Continue we re here to support you in your wonderful passion Wray! Go ahead!
The small shrinking discs I make and sell are 5" in diameter. They will work on any 4.5" or 5" grinder. The small grinders turn with no load at 8000 rpm to 12000 rpm.
Now I want to strip my panel of the skim coat of filler and run the shrinking disc to make it perfect. The last E I did I used a 1/4 bag of dolphin glaze and that was on the deck lid damaged by the sand blaster.
Both it depends. First you have to get the arrangement of the metal back to where it needs to be . This can be done by off dolly work and on dolly. Once straightened fine tuning of the surface might require on dolly work followed by a shrinking disc, to achieve a perfect surface.
If it is a collector value truck you can repair rust and dent problems by taking it apart just like they built it, which means removing a lot of spot welds. That is a big job so the alternative is to pull the damage areas out with specialized tools. There are quite a few modern approaches to that problem now which are used around the world in bodyshops. Search out those type of solutions on UA-cam.
@@proshaper Mine is a 1962 F100 Uni-bed. See my profile picture. The bed is part of the cab. It doesn't separate like a typical bed. It's similar to a Ranchero in that regard. I'm chicken to start on it until I get all the facts. Remove old paint then, what? Straighten sides and hood. Maybe, it's a professional's job, except I can't afford a pro. I'll keep watching your videos. They are great.
Great stuff. Watching the videos again to take in more information. But So far the time it takes cannot be warranted in any application I’ve ran across as a collision repair/classic car restoration tech. Perhaps I’m not into the exotic or high end game like yourself. Where people are willing to pay $5 grand per panel. But the biggest issue is time. I dont have a week to remove a low place in a trunk fender or hood. Ive got mere minutes. At $95 dollars an hour I could never justify spending 16 hours on any one body part. “ sorry sir it will be $1600 just to recurve the top of your fender!” I’m sure there is cause for shrinking metal this way. Parts that are no longer made. But I’ve just not found it yet. I’m my opinion why not utilize powered planishing hammer rig to smooth out the highs and lows in only 2 minutes? Perhaps these cannot un stretch highs? I’d be interested in getting your feedback on using power planishing. Seems even if the body part was stretched slightly since there is only one of these around no one would ever know it sits 1/8 inch higher than the original profile piece. Thanks again.
Michelangelo was paid about $35000.00 in the 1500s to paint the Sistine Chapel ceiling and it took him years to do. He could have painted the ceiling for a lot less and probably be done in weeks if he had just white washed it. There are people that appreciate high quality work and they are willing to pay for it. Also there are a lot of people that want to learn how to do super high quality restoration, metalshaping, coachbuilding- they are my customers.
Fascinsting but I don't understand how the discs work. They seem somhow to cause shrinkage through heating when my lifetimes understanding tells me that heating causes expansion. Did I miss the explanation?
I bought a shrinking disc back in the 1980s from a Japanese guy at the Pomona swap meet. It was called Sun something?. The way he demonstrated it was amazing. He beat up a fender with a hammer and used that disc and it took the dents out in no time. A true professional and a salesman. I bought it and tried it and didn’t get the results . With no instructions how can you get the same results.So I just hung it up in my garage as a display of a tool that I couldn’t use. Pretty much forgotten. Seeing your videos on it is making me understand it better. It only took 40 years. I was 18 at the time and I spent close to a $100 of my hard earned money on it and felt a bit suckered. I had a 1956 ford pickup and every panel was really dented up. Now I have a 356 in the same condition. It’s been rolled over and the front fender torn off. I’m making a fender with your flexible gauge system and it’s working pretty good. I was getting ready to make a buck and I found your videos and your system makes things easier Thanks regards Andre Tardif
You bought the original style Shrinking disc from Ken Sakamoto of Sunchaser. He bought the shrinking disc business from his mentor Scott Knight. He is still around. I too bought that style of shrinking disc from Scott Knight in the 1986. It has the ruffles on the edge and as you use it the outer edge turns into a serrated knife edge. I came up with the smooth and safe edge design plus mine are thicker and last longer. I also crested the first smaller 5" shrinking disc. The shrinking disc concept goes back to the 1930s. I have been making and selling my safe edge version now for over 20 years. Thanks for watching my channel, hope to be back soon. I have been super busy.
@@proshaper Your absolutely right it is Sun chaser’s. I woke up in the middle of the night and remember it. He seemed like a really nice guy and he drew a crowd when he demonstrated it. So I bought it and thought it couldn’t be hard. I think he offered classes on it at the time but I just had enough to just buy it. I’m going to dust it off and try it out on my hood, roof and rear end of the 356 after I cut it out. I have done a lot of rust repair on all my cars in the past 40 years but never made a fender. Mostly floor repairs which any monkey can do. I bought this wrecked and stripped down 356 just because I didn’t want to pay for a nice one. A lot of hidden rust so that’s what I’m working on right and now and finally l am coming out of the rusty woods and just need the floor pans installed. Going to leave them out till I get the roof straightened out. Your videos are a great help Thanks for your response
I met him there too. He does a metal shaping class close by
This is only one of many many things you will learn if you take one of Wray’s classes. Worth every penny for a lifetime of knowledge plus it’s a lot of fun…
Cracked me up when . . . "I just lost my sandblasting audience" . . . "There I just lost my Bondo audience" haha new subscriber here to help make up for the loss. Great info.
My dad used to work for George Barris Custom Rods many moons ago. He helped build the Munster Mobile and the Pink Panther car and some others. I used to help him as soon as I could walk. Now he is gone and I find myself wandering what some of the tools he left behind are used for. I know a fair amount and can do some amazing stuff but always like learning old school tricks. And I appreciate you taking the time to show us all. I like working with metal, I do a lot of fiberglass work on boats and custom cars with a lot of curves. I like a good challenge anymore lol.
Sounds questionable
Barris used chicken wire and bondo
@@davidnonnenmocher5122 Bong Gone!
I never would have considered a mahker as lubricant... pretty genius. Bless you old school pros for sharing wisdom to the next generation.
Thats MAHKAH,and yeah,theyre wicked good.
@@digschopper9321 thanks for clearing that up for me, being a Southern guy my Northeastern Spelling needs some work. 😂
seen hundreds of body work videos over the years, yet you cover stuff I've never seen! made a subscriber out of me. will definitely be using your techniques when I take on the challenge of my 75 duster.
... Should have seen this video 40 years ago!!!
I wish.
Awesome video!
"I lost all the Bondo Audience now" topped it! 😂
It is always impressive to watch a true craftsman at work.
I LOVE FRANK dropping in. Seriously it shows how down to earth and humble Wray is. I am so happy a face book friend recommended this channel for me to learn from. Merry Christmas Frank and Wray and everyone watching :)
Great video Wray! You are a real craftsman so statements from you about sandblasting and Bondo should be eyeopeners for everyone. You inspired me to go buy good quality bodyhammers, dollys and a slapper. Thanks you very much for sharing your knowledge with us!
I've seen and committed some filler atrocities.. I admit it , for quick jobs . I've been weaning off , thanks to your videos , I been a better body worker of late. Have a great holidays and a happy new year !
Good to hear. Striving for excellence can be very contagious. 😁😁😁
Got a couple sand blasters and a little bondo. That's why I enjoy watching your videos. Thank you!
28:33 "I just lost my sandblasting audience". 39:46 "I lost all the bondo audience now"... 28:48 "It's funny when you have strong statements on anything you lose half your audience"... SUBSCRIBED!!! Second video watched,... Already a favorite. Wealth of knowledge. And as an old guy, TheOldGuyPhil, I don't care what people that are wrong think! ;) I wish my cousin was alive to watch you,... He would love you too.
I'm an old guy too, on the outside 72 years. I have 60 years of experience working on collector cars. Started when I was 12 working at my grandfather's restoration shop.
I'm honored you commented. I know I speak for the community - Thanks for opening your shop and sharing your wealth of knowledge, tips and tricks, and producing great quality videos! @@proshaper
Thank you so much. I have used and continue to use these skills you are teaching to restore my 1951 Dodge power wagon. I heartily agree about sandblasting and Bondo. I used the sandblaster on the frame rails only. This technique also requires patience which I have also had to learn!
Thank you for taking the time. I made a 6" and I learn more each time I use it. I will get a big one soon.
I'm a weldah, I see spocks flyin every day. Thanks for the video, I learned a lot.
Wray you are clearly a true master of a disappearing art. And having hand-worked many a panel over the past four decades, I won't deny the satisfaction that comes from doing a filler-free contour restoration, and the knowledge after the fact that the panel is as good as new. However... The chemical engineering that produces modern, high-end polyester fillers is in another universe relative to the "Bondo" that we used 30 years ago. I'm betting that that nose is still going to receive a coat of catalyzed glaze, or at least a round or two of 2K high build primer/blocking before paint. So the question is, apart from doing the service of maintaining the knowledge and practice of a disappearing art that saved a lot of lead back in the day, is it really "necessary" to straighten a panel past the point where the painter's "bag of tricks" will more than suffice to produce a perfectly straight contour that will most assuredly outlast the paint itself?
I bought a disc and DVD combo from wray around 6 yrs ago, works awesome, i find it addictive to get it as smooth as possible,
Thanks wray, keep the vids comming
Hi Paul, funny how that works, you learn the process to smooth a panel and your panel perfection goalpost just keeps moving. As you say it is addictive. 😁😁😁 Panel shaping is very similar, your skill sets keep getting better and better but the hunger to improve more just keeps gnawing away.
@Scott Robinson paint works but is too slow. The marker doesn't gum up the shrinking disc.
this video was helpful. i've been running my 5" shrinking disc without the backing pad. that will be on my next harbor freight run. that little 2" orbital you introduced me to a year ago or so is also a total winner.
I REMEMBER USING A SHRINKING DISC LIKE THIS ON MY INGERSOL RAND GRINDER AT HIGH SPEED,,THINK IT WAS MADE BYE FERRO INDUSTRIES ,,WAS HAPPY WITH THE RESULTS IT GAVE ME ,,,THANKS FOR THE VIDEOS
I have made and sold shrinking discs for over 20 years. I created the first safe edge 9" shrinking disc and the 5" shrinking disc. Available at my website www.proshaper.com.
I WLD NEVER HAVE THOUGHT TO USE A "FLAPPER" HAMMER,LIKE THE ONE USED IN THIS VIDEO. BUT,AS ALWAYS THE PROOF IS IN THE PUDDING!!
AWESOME VIDEO, INSTANT SUB!!
Wray, you had me laughing so hard when you talked about losing the audience every time you said you didn't like Bondo or sandblasting!!
Longer the vid the more I learn 🇬🇧😁🛠♥️
Make sure to watch Wray's Video on how to make the slap hammer.. Great video!
5 bucks of Bondo would have been quicker! Great work man, just ordered one of these for an old car I have in the shop.
Just awsome. Merry Christmas. I also dont like sandblasting and bondo. Trying to learn how to do it right. Thanks for all the great videos.
Just saw first shrinking disc vidio and very impressed with this method. I really dont do any bodywork but like thousands of other people, I try to fix whatever needs repair round here and always happy to add anything helpful to my arsenal of tips and tricks, After seeing those markers dry up so quickly, I would like to suggest that you (develope/market) a refillable marker to include in your shrinking disk kit. Who knows maybe, after the initial sale of disks, these markers and ink could be a staple product sale for your company. Also possibly even a wider applicator tip.
Let me know.
Thanks
M L Rogers Pasadena,TX
Great video again Wray! Love to watch the transformation! Great teacher!
Very informative video, thanks for posting this. I recently purchased your large and small disc set. I was having issues with the locking nut bottoming out on the inner flange that comes with the Makita (central hub support) before the 9” disc became tight. This would leave the locking nut above the surface of the disc. After trying numerous configurations, what I found to work for me was to use one 5/8 washer, then the 5” backing plate, then the 9” backing plate, then the 9” disc, then the locking nut. My 9” disc is tight now and the locking nut is recessed below the surface.
The sand blaster people are gone, the bondo people are gone, The panel beaters are going to hang with you !!! Hope you have a safe and happy New Year.
Yeah I have to say, right when he said he had it dipped the camera was pointing at at least 50 spot welds that will never stop rusting unless they rinsed it really well and treated every single weld with that sealer that will seep into the pinch weld and even go vertical around the weld. I personally would never dip something with a pinch weld or anything that is impossible to sand and reseal.
Wonder how he feels about fiberglass? He can say what he wants, I will still watch. Wrey's talent is Great, even better since he is passing this knowledge on to you Mortals!
You dont need to ask
you cannot wheel . shrink or stretch fiberglass
@@cinderswolfhound6874 I realize that, I have a 74 CJ5 with a full fiberglass body, besides the windshield brace. I am meaning as in using fiberglass. He is working on some boats, and I can't wait till he works on the the fiberglass on those to get some tips, and tricks. I was just tryin to be funny from his statement.
@@myconight your point, and humor, was not lost to all...
Love to learn new techniques, Thank you so much
Nice work...true passion for metal finishing
Great video and very informative content. Thanks for the upload, all the best!
I absolutely love your english wheels, especially the ones that look fabricated.
They are all designed and fabricated in the shop.
Firstly thanks for another video & merry Christmas Wray. A good instructional video on slapping irregularities out & using the disk. I will refute your sandblasting dislike though :). As a refinisher as well as a metal guy the best purpose of blasting is the key it provides. The epoxy applied over a good key prior to any finishing work, and sandwiching any filler or spray fill with epoxy greatly enhances metal protection over the years. I've etched E-type center panels with 0 warpage. Fine media ( worn 60+ screen nickle slag usually), nozzle angle, nozzle distance & blast pressure , experience & common sense are all required of course. Blasting to remove old coatings though is a no no. Aircraft strip, chem dip to reach bare metal first and it's not an issue. I will epoxy panels that I won't be working immediately post strip simply to protect from humidity & flash rusting.
But it is nice to see you are moving towards another section of the E-bonnet. That was what drew me here in the first place. Thanks again!
Excellent instruction.
IM NO BODY MAN BY ANY STRETCH,BUT SOME OF THESE TIPS &TRICKS ARE EXCELLENT!
LOVE THE ALUMINIUM SANDING BLOCK!
I hope you had a very merry Christmas too!
😮nice job on the video ,very informative.Thanks
Excellent content- as usual !! Thanks & Merry Christmas, Wray.
Seems like there's more than enough things to sandblast that are better suited to it than thin ga sheet metal so sandblasters shouldn't be too upset. I don't know that I've ever seen a high end restoration or fab shop use a sandblaster on thin steel that it will deform so ya good advice Wray.
Very informative, thank you very much
Great video thanks, the part that I find confusing is that you want to shrink the highs and stretch the lows on one side, but if the panel is flipped over the lows are now high. If I use the shrinking disc it will be shrinking the areas that I want to stretch on the other side. That was confusing to type...lol
Great job Wray!
Merry Christmas Wray and crew! Thanks for sharing all your knowledge this year. I can't wait to get another project car and another E-wheel to start beating and shaping panels again.
Thanks Greg! I hope you consider building your own English wheel using my frame plans. We have finally started making the lower anvils using the CNC lathe I purchased, for that purpose.
@@proshaper I definitely like the one you showed the construction of on your channel. I'll probably start there and modify as needed or I'll go old-school and make one that uses plate sides infilled with 1/4" strap... If you're making anvils, I'll buy them from you. I was going to machine my own, but I'd rather support your efforts. I have enough other stuff to keep my machines busy.
You haven’t lost me !!
Just found your channel. What a find!
Thanks! please subscribe and share. What video caught your eye first?
I agree with the Anti Sandblast sentiments having seen lots of panels on some ver expensive projects destroyed. Another pet hat is soda blasting, Especially if a car was blasted and still partially assembled. The damned stuff gets into corners and wiring looms causing a chemical reaction when electricity is passed down the wires.
The only way to strip a car /boat/aeroplane is sheer hard work .
I found could loosen the nut a bit so the disk could spin and then turn on the grinder will self level works with metal polishing pads too.
That's interesting idea... I bet that works great.. because the threads fit loose so when you tighten it by hand it's always being influenced off center... I Sometimes do that when putting wheels on just for fun but I'm gonna test with an indicator someday
@@ianbuilds7712 like the indicator idea but so many variables pads backing pads nuts grinder ect. If its not quite there this way loosen off and try again centrifugal force will win over any marks. when i learned this polishing made things so much better there is micro balance you can never mark out ask a machinist
forgot to add Merry Christmas and Happy new year . and thank you for these videos know how much it takes to make them. Vary much appreciated and hope to pass the skills on down to my son.
Great video, Wray! Thanks for sharing this info.
Love Wrays videos!
Another excellent video, thanks and Happy Holidays Wray
Merry Christmas Wray
very educational thank you
And a Merry Christmas from Paul’s Reconditioning Hull Ma.
Merry Christmas and have a Happy New Year for 2021 Wray.
All the best from Down Under regards Michael
I love my powdered guide coat.
Merry Christmas Ray, cheers, Doug
I agree about sand blasting totally, it just warps the metal I did a series three E type and the sandblaster warped it so bad it took three days to straighten the panel. I used a skim coat of glaze in a couple of areas but mostly primer filler.
Thanks for the video Wray and Merry Christmas.
Good video, mostly. I wish you'd explain the positional relationship between the flapper and dolly as you're working the panel.
Mostly you watch the footprints left by the dolly slapper interaction. The only time you don't care about the footprints is when you are moving the arrangement of the metal, that is done with the dolly acting solely as a fulcrum, and the slapper as a lever. Arrangement is bending with no stretching.
Hi Wray. I’ll buy the hub and nut if you start making them. The nut on my grinder doesn’t fit into the recess of the disc. I have two large discs set ups and a small one. I hope to get see you this summer for another class. Thanks for the videos.
Because he’s using the shrinker as flatness checker and that’s not what it’s used for. Just because someone has been doing something for a long time doesn’t mean he’s doing it right. I am baffled to find out this guy is a supposed professional.
I like to use some 180 grit glued to a thin still of perspex to highlight my highs and lows. (magic wand)
I place it flat and rub it over the surface from each direction to show the mapping of the material
Great timing on this video. The 5 inch disc I ordered just arrived. I will need to get one of those backing pads.
Saludo desde Cuba ¿ maestro como puedo lograr similitud entre los guarda barros derecho y izquierdo? Porfavor soy muí pobre y no tengo mucho recurso tengo que acerlo yo mismo ten 5 años sin lograr mi cacharrito estoy aprendiendo con sus vídeos de UA-cam
Frank showing up was Funny, you should have him in your videos more often! P.S. -- SANDBLASTING SUCKS -- If you do any blasting at all it should be Soda Only, Soda will NOT Warp or Ruin the metal surface..
I'm a huge fan of vapor blasting. I've done several motorcycle engines and smaller car parts in the past couple years and the results, especially on cast aluminum, are nothing short of amazing.
@Scott Robinson In my experience it clogs sanpaper no matter how thin you try to spray it. they make a sprayable guide coat, but i've never used it so I can't say whether it's any good.
@@steven-ky2ps I use spray ink. It comes in aerosol cans that are designed to used upside down ,so you point down hill when spraying. It doesn't stick completely to steel and dries quickly. mostly used for marking pallets etc.
@@Mercmad Interesting. Where would a guy find that stuff, and how much $?
Cool seeing you here, I'm just starting out in auto body and I love all the random tips I get from your videos
You keep saying you’ve lost this crowd or that crowd. I’m kinda in both crowds, I believe everything is a tool, even my favorite hammer isn’t ideal for every job. My sand blast cabinet is useful for some things not for others, the more I learn the less I need body fillers. But it’s still a tool. But good info and thanks for sharing…
Question Time! 1. When using the either size Shrinking Disc do you want the disc to be as flat as possible when making contact with the work piece? Or is it alright to use just a portion of the disc when making contact? 2. When you are using the Body Dollie with the Slapper where should the Dollie be placed? Dead center of the low spot or do you start on the outer portion of the low spot & work your way towards the center of the low spot? 3. When you are using the Slapper where should you be making contact with the work piece? Do you want to hit only on the outer areas or do you want the dollie to be directly beneath when striking? I believe it's referred to as contact & non-contact. 4. Wouldn't the Shrinking disc cause warping on newer cars that are made of Shitty thin metal? 5. What is the life expectancy of the Shrink Disc? Say an average of 4hrs use 5 days a week? 6. Can the Shrink Disc's be cleaned or smoothed of any build up? 7. Is there an optimal size/weight Slapper to use? Or is it personal preference? Any feedback would be appreciated.
Sanding taco is a tool of choice also.
For low areas and high areas, where is the dolly placed in relation to the slapper? Thanks.
Just think on terms of fulcrum and lever.
Great Wray. When did you start on the shrinking disc method? Bought a set from you 10+ yrs ago and invaluable ever since
I have been using shrinking discs since 1985. I started out with Scott Knight's original ruffled edge style until 2000 when I came up with the 9" diameter safe edge smooth design, and the 5" diameter disc. I have been selling them since. I have several copy cats on both designs stealing from me everyday....
@@proshaper did you patent it? Can u patent it?.. It's a smooth disc on a grinder I bet the guy with the ruffled edge would say yours is a slightly modified copycat of his.. I bet his started as a smooth disc before he added ruffles lol.. the quality of your stuff is among the best but to say you're the only/first guy to think of that is silly. I make my own discs because the diameter and shape is a constant compromise... I made slightly bowl shaped one to get inside curves and I use it a lot... I'd never try to sell them tho I'd lose my shirt...
@@proshaper Thanks! I think I recall some of your earlier videos with the ruffled design. Unfortunate on the copy cats, I can say I have the genuine article!
Great video Thank you.
Anyone, with even a little knowledge about sheetmetal work should know that sandblasting is the worst thing you can do to a panel. Of course there are people that'll say, "I've sandblasted sheetmetal for years, with no problems". That's when I shut up and walk away from the conversation, because I already know the caliber of work produced by them.
Wray,I know it's a simple task,but could you make a video of which tools and whatnot you use for paint removal?
Grinders,wire wheels,the best type for fast removal.
Thank you,and happy new year!
Phil.
Please help me to understand. I can't see the little footprints, where are you placing the dolly?
Haha, "down with sandblasting!" I like stripping the paint where the metal os good but if the car is pitted or bare rust as in a field find i prefer sandblasting so you can really get into the surface. I know Wray wouldnt waste his time on "ratty" cars but I think some are worth saving and stripper and rust converter just doesnt get into the pits like a good crushed glass wet vapor blast. Oh AND I also put epoxy primer on which Wray hates but all the metal work gets done before epoxy so i dont know why you'd do metal work afterwards. I get it for super high end cars like hes working on that will never see rain again in their lives but my stuff does as they are at least half daily drivers. Still so much to learn from Wray though on so many other techniques!
Merry Xmas!
I am sure there must be a optimal temp range for this procedure. Just a thought if you laser temp the metal when you are using the shrinking disk. It would give us a range of temp to get the steam effect. The laser temp sensors are cheap. For people watching your videos. Some people might be over doing it or under doing it. We have no way of knowing.
A spray bottle and water are even cheaper. Steam = good.
Nice work
Wray, I notice the slapper marks show up in the low fields. Is this on-dolly? I supposed you would push up the lows with the dolly while slapping the surrounding ridge in an off-dolly manner. Sorry for the rudimentary question. Fascinating stuff. Merry Christmas!
Yes, it is both off and on dolly. Off at first until they start clashing together. Off dolly is changing the arrangement value. On dolly in changing the area value.
So can you work harden the metal to where it will want to crack, or does the shrinking disc help combat this
I have never had an automotive aluminum or steel panel "work harden".
Excellent instructional video, thank you. Is that a slapping file you're using against the soap bar dollie, or just bent flat stock?
around 15:50's I am assuming you are slapping around the marking perimeter of a hollow with the dolly underneath and when you work a hump you slap the centre of a marked area again with the dolly underneath.
If you hit the back side of the dent with liquid nitrogen would it contract the metal on that side and help pull the dent out
could you straighten it with a pnumatic planisher or english wheel ? instead of spending hours with a hammer and dolly ?
An English wheel is too big to get into the area. I do have a mobile planishing hammer with several hoops, that is another video. Most people don't have a mobile planishing hammer, hence the slapper and dolly method. Often times the slapper and dolly is the only method you can use. You should know both methods.
I've got a chance to use the wheels. Incredible. However I noticed if I try to shrink a small area I warm it up with the disk and then the metal swells and so I dolley it down. But I cannot get the swell to go back to where its flatter than what it was. I believe these places being on a fender of a 49 chevy truck had already been worked. But it appears they didn't do anything but stretch the metal outward. Maybe once stretched is why I cannot get it to go flat again completely. So if I do it several times the swell grows as always, then I hammeer it down and cool it with air, and it never becomes flat or concave as much as I need it to. I did larger areas as wel and found that I could not reduce the metal to where it was perfectly flat again. Seemed the swelling metal just gets bigger and bigger the harder I work! Perhaps too much working of this same stretched metal area? I'm using air to cool the metal after hammering it back to as flat as I can. No matter what though I still have a high that filler won't cover. I cannot reduce it with the heat shrinking disk. I did go back and take a torch to this same area and got it red hot in about several dime sized areas and those I was able to pound back flat. Just couldn't do it with the disk, no matter how long or how hot I got it, perhaps it never did get hot enough to reverse the expansion? Any suggestions would be of great HELP?
Watch my shrinking disc videos several times, there are three of them.
I spent $15 dollars in markers only to find out they didn’t work very well. Big markers won’t keep marking. They go dry. They didn’t last or work and it takes forever to cover the size of a hood. I keep alternating several markers but it takes so much efforts. Is there any other solution for marking the metal ? And having this lubrication? Also you basically are hammering down an already flat surface. The body I work in are severely high spots as much as 1/4 to 1/2 inch stretched high spots. The more I bang them in the further out the highs of the metal rises.
So fucking good you ve lost morons from sandblasting and bondo!
So fucking cool!
Continue we re here to support you in your wonderful passion Wray!
Go ahead!
What smaller grinder has enough RPMs to utilize the four and a half inch shrinking disc?
The small shrinking discs I make and sell are 5" in diameter. They will work on any 4.5" or 5" grinder. The small grinders turn with no load at 8000 rpm to 12000 rpm.
Now I want to strip my panel of the skim coat of filler and run the shrinking disc to make it perfect. The last E I did I used a 1/4 bag of dolphin glaze and that was on the deck lid damaged by the sand blaster.
Wait, are you slapping in the dent or around the dent? Is the dolly directly below the strike or off?
Both it depends. First you have to get the arrangement of the metal back to where it needs to be . This can be done by off dolly work and on dolly. Once straightened fine tuning of the surface might require on dolly work followed by a shrinking disc, to achieve a perfect surface.
Thanks for the clarification. Much appreciated. @@proshaper
Tried to find rust remover you mentioned on Amazon but failed to find it, could you post a link in description
How do you take care of a bedside of a truck? You can't reach both sides to do the hammer/dolly process.
If it is a collector value truck you can repair rust and dent problems by taking it apart just like they built it, which means removing a lot of spot welds. That is a big job so the alternative is to pull the damage areas out with specialized tools. There are quite a few modern approaches to that problem now which are used around the world in bodyshops. Search out those type of solutions on UA-cam.
@@proshaper
Mine is a 1962 F100 Uni-bed. See my profile picture. The bed is part of the cab. It doesn't separate like a typical bed. It's similar to a Ranchero in that regard.
I'm chicken to start on it until I get all the facts. Remove old paint then, what? Straighten sides and hood. Maybe, it's a professional's job, except I can't afford a pro.
I'll keep watching your videos. They are great.
Great stuff. Watching the videos again to take in more information. But So far the time it takes cannot be warranted in any application I’ve ran across as a collision repair/classic car restoration tech. Perhaps I’m not into the exotic or high end game like yourself. Where people are willing to pay $5 grand per panel. But the biggest issue is time. I dont have a week to remove a low place in a trunk fender or hood. Ive got mere minutes. At $95 dollars an hour I could never justify spending 16 hours on any one body part. “ sorry sir it will be $1600 just to recurve the top of your fender!” I’m sure there is cause for shrinking metal this way. Parts that are no longer made. But I’ve just not found it yet.
I’m my opinion why not utilize powered planishing hammer rig to smooth out the highs and lows in only 2 minutes? Perhaps these cannot un stretch highs? I’d be interested in getting your feedback on using power planishing. Seems even if the body part was stretched slightly since there is only one of these around no one would ever know it sits 1/8 inch higher than the original profile piece.
Thanks again.
Michelangelo was paid about $35000.00 in the 1500s to paint the Sistine Chapel ceiling and it took him years to do. He could have painted the ceiling for a lot less and probably be done in weeks if he had just white washed it. There are people that appreciate high quality work and they are willing to pay for it. Also there are a lot of people that want to learn how to do super high quality restoration, metalshaping, coachbuilding- they are my customers.
very helpfull. Does shrinking disk work on aluminium ?
It does but it scratches too much. Go to my UA-cam homepage and find my video on how to take out dents in aluminum. Thanks, keep watching.
Is the impact of the slapper stretching the metal in order to bring level or is the impact merely moving or changing the arrangement?
Both
Your a star ,,,,,,,,, a movie star now , Happy Xmas .
There must be a limit in how many times you can sand the panel?
Sanding sheetmetal removes an extremely tiny amount of material. Grinding removes metal.
Fascinsting but I don't understand how the discs work. They seem somhow to cause shrinkage through heating when my lifetimes understanding tells me that heating causes expansion. Did I miss the explanation?