Hi Jeff, I am actually the ex-rower you mentioned. I am also a long time fan of the channel so it was an awesome surprise to see you answering my question. You are absolutely right on the connective tissues and muscles. I ended up straining my Achilles at the end of the summer from overuse, requiring 3 months to fully recover. I am back to normal training (following an actual plan now) and looking forward for the racing season in 2025. Watching your content the past few years is one of the reasons I switched to cycling at the end of my rowing career. Thanks again for answering my question as well as all you do for cycling. I hope to see you at a race someday!
You might also consider cleats a bit further back too, this puts less strain on your achilles. Just remember that moving the cleats back you will extend your legs further so saddle might have to go down a bit too.
I would add that cyclist who want to lose weight should ESPECIALLY eat enough carbs during their rides. Caloric deficit is made in the kitchen, not on the bike. Fueling properly will prevent binge eating after the rides and you will overall consume much less calories that way.
Thanks for this. All of these questions were on my mind today. Again another great video. I love your race day videos and voice overs but this is a different flavor and much appreciated. Keep up the good work and hopefully I can ride with you soon
I really enjoyed this and think it would be a great addition to your series of videos. More please and/or allow us to ask questions to you directly versus reddit!
Thanks for putting these videos together. Even though I do not race, they help me become a better cyclist. They also help me understand race tactics, and watching cycling races is more enjoyable. Funny you mention Lake Bluff. It's a regular stop on Z2 endurance rides. There is an excellent café on Turn One of the crit.
Definitely a good point on carbing up for Z2 rides. Once I started doing that for my 3-6 hour gravel excursions, I found that I'd get home and... not be hungry. Previously I would've eaten ALL the foods in the house. Though if its a short weekday Z2 ride of 60-75 minutes, I only grab a small snack heading out the door, or just water.
racing with power: I have a screen on my Garmin with elapsed time and that's it. When racing starts, that's the screen that's on. ...I mean what are you going to do? Hey guys, Slow down I'm over my FTP... The computer is recording, I just can't see the numbers. For us mortals with a roll around your middle, if you're going short in z2, try not eating. Your normal diet can sustain you for a while.
Cornering on rails: has nothing to do with your equipment or the limits of your equipment, and everything to do with your position on the bicycle. You never want to lean your body into a turn. You want the bicycle to operate independently from you. Push the bicycle down into the corners while keeping your shoulders square to the road surface. You want your center mass to be *outside* of the top tube. If you lean into the turn and shift your mass center to the inside of the top tube, you’re making the force of gravity and the generated centrifugal force compete *against* the friction of the tires. That’s when you’ll wash out. That’s when you’ll chuck pedals. Instead, push the bike down into the corners while keeping your mass centered over the bike. Do this and gravity and the centrifugal force acting on your body, acting through the lever of the bicycle, will *multiply* the friction on the tires. Faster, tighter, more controlled cornering. This is a basic skill that I used to teach new cat5 racers, and two seasons later we had the #1 amateur team in New England.
Training wheels, hell nah. I’ve moved onto the galaxy brain setup, the training bike. Picked up a Winspace G2 like 2 years ago and kitted it out with Rival AXS wide. 43x30 upfront, 10-36 in the back, 35mm GP5000 AS TR tires, 3 bottle cages, and top tube bag. Practically never flat, can do longer rides with very little stopping, and that AXS wide setup makes doing long zone 2 sessions outdoors much more feasible where I live since it’s so mountainous/hilly. The 30/36 combo allows spinning up and lower power on everything except the steepest stuff which I would avoid on a zone 2 ride anyways. It’s been a game changer for training.
A few notes of conversation to the video. Rower dude should find a good team or buddy to hang with and hit the top secret pro rides, that much Z2 is good but not gonna cut it with that engine come competition day, as you know. In the last 5+ years I've transitioned heavily to respiration as superior to power, it's all cellular respiration in the end. The power meter has shifted to a secondary metric for "what's happening" in the body LIVE, but is still a final analysis of gains alongside all other markers. Watts aren't absolute in a training sense, but absolute in relative zone sense to performance gains. Relating first principles of body state might help a new comer with an explanation of RPE in respiration, to know what is happening across their training. New power meters tend to burn out riders similar to first gym goers who end up in endless DOMS 😆 Cool that insta360 FINALLY has a mount that won't end up in a smashed camera.
(Edited) Cornering on rails: has almost nothing to do with your equipment or the limits of your equipment, and everything to do with your position on the bicycle. You never want to lean your body into a turn. You want the bicycle to operate independently from you. Push the bicycle down into the corners while keeping your shoulders square to the road surface. You want your center mass to be between the top tube and the bottom bracket. If you lean into the turn, you shift your mass center to beyond the top tube. With your weight there, you’re making the force of gravity and the generated centrifugal force compete *against* the friction of the tires. That’s when you’ll wash out. That’s when you’ll chuck pedals. Instead, push the bike down into the corners while keeping your mass centered over the bike. Do this and gravity and the centrifugal forces acting on your body, transferred through the lever of the bicycle, will *multiply* the friction on the tires. Faster, tighter, more controlled cornering. This is a basic skill that I used to teach new cat5 and cat4 racers. And it’s important for new racers to master this because it takes all the fear and chaos out of the equation and replaces it with thrilling excitement.
The only thing I’ll add is that once you start doing this you’ll want to start erring on the side of a late apex. Apex is fine, but you’ll be cornering so fast that hitting an early apex is a miscalculation you don’t want to make. Start disciplining yourself to go two or three bike lengths past the point where you’d habitually turn- which is a mere blink at speed. Cheat to a late apex and by the time you exit the turn you’ll already be mostly pointed in the direction you want to go.
Hey Jeff, I have a question. I would be grateful if you would be able to answer it. Three weeks ago I was sick (I had a fever and sore throat for about 5 days), After a week I was feeling much better, so I did some low intensity rides, and in the whole previous week I trained only in Z2. The problem is that before the illness on Z2 power (indoor trainer) I was riding at a HR of about 145, and now my HR with the same power as before is ~160 (also indoor trainer). So now it's been 12 days since the end of the temperature and sore throat and my HR is still not even close to what it was, how long can it take to get back to pre-sickness condition? It may seem silly, but it affects my mental while riding a lot..
For future video's, I think it would be helpful to show us viewers what 80/90/120g of carbs looks like for you - mix, bars, gels, etc. Esp for a youtube video I think that visual would be super helpful.
Tl;DR; During Z2 trainings what if my power with preferable cadence is in Z3 HR zone? Long version: I have a question related to power zones. Just a note - I'm riding indoor. You said that we should focus only on power. I'm quite new into trainings (last 2 years I was riding just by feeling). I ride with cadence around 95-100 which is comfortable. Under 80 I feel knees' discomfort which is close to pain (sitting job is not good for knees). When I tried to do a proper Z2 training based on power and my standard cadence most of the time I was in Z3 HR. The only way to stay in Z2 HR for me is spinning with a cadence around 80. About my FTP, it's not overestimated. 2 weeks ago I did a super hard ride and could stay with this avg power 1h. My HR zones are based on default Garmin zones. My max HR was set 2 sprints (I hit 184 and 185BPM) which I did at the end of a hard race. What should I do then? Should I don't think about HR (and Garmin which screams that I'm not doing Z2 rides)? Or maybe Garmin standard zone are not the best? I heard that I shouldn't be able to stay in Z4 for more than hour, but I could stay there for ~1:30h during a 2h ride. Ofc, next day I was dying from tiredness and end up sick after 3days of hard push xd
if your heart rate is climbing higher than expected during a z2 ride, this is likely because you are experiencing heart rate decoupling - a classic indication that you have not spent enough time in the base period, or you are not cooling yourself properly (common on indoor trainers) and you are overheating. Or it could be both. Cool yourself properly with fans and see if your heart rate stops decoupling to find out what's going on. FYI cadence should have nothing to do with it, just ride at the cadence that feels most comfortable as long as it's within the 70-110ish range
@NorCalCycling thank you for your explanation, each time I think I know something, someone proves I'm wrong :d I will improve my fan management and spend more time in lower intensity... Until last 2 months rides in Z2 didn't exist for me. With cadence I thought: "faster spin equals more work for hearth equals higher HR". Still, it doesn't look good when I need to reduce power to Z1 to stay in HR Z2 with cadence around 100.
Honestly great content and replies but to prescribe just Z2 to a rower is a half-answer. They will need some intensity in base and not just purely Z2, you also don't give any feedback on progression thereafter.
Agreed 👍 but it’s a pretty complicated answer that would take up an entire video just to scratch the surface, so I decided to hit the main point which is for a new athlete who wants to train 15hrs per week, 14 should be zone 2
As a not Cat #1 ..Question #1 . Yup when you are there you are there, the other thing Ill add you see trouble before it happens and you get out !! Dont ask me how I know . I just know ..Q#3 ..Yup, great answer. and With or without power .. Only back in the 1990's if you lined up with a bike computer some looked at you said "What's That?" You keep up or not, that is all you need to know.
I have had better luck using HR for Z2 to be sure not to ride too hard. Keeping my body in Z2 is more about capping my HR than pushing a particular power number. Dr Stephen Seiler has some very interesting research on this topic.
Good of you to give proper advice, based on real-life experiences and scientific evidence. There is often a lot of poor, perhaps even detrimental, advice on that subreddit.
"...only under resting". there is a point where you can't rest enough to tolerate the training load. For some people (like myself) who have job, family, kids, etc.. that number is about 10hrs per week. any more, and I can't shed the fatigue at the rate i'm accumulating it. For pros with a full support staff that could be more like 25hrs per week. obviously this is a very simplified explanation but that's the point I'm making.
Hi Jeff, I am actually the ex-rower you mentioned. I am also a long time fan of the channel so it was an awesome surprise to see you answering my question. You are absolutely right on the connective tissues and muscles. I ended up straining my Achilles at the end of the summer from overuse, requiring 3 months to fully recover. I am back to normal training (following an actual plan now) and looking forward for the racing season in 2025. Watching your content the past few years is one of the reasons I switched to cycling at the end of my rowing career. Thanks again for answering my question as well as all you do for cycling. I hope to see you at a race someday!
3 months is so brutal bro. I wish you strength.
You might also consider cleats a bit further back too, this puts less strain on your achilles. Just remember that moving the cleats back you will extend your legs further so saddle might have to go down a bit too.
Plenty of time in a group is needed. So many people got really fit on zwift during covid but were dangerous to ride with. Fitness isn't everything.
I would add that cyclist who want to lose weight should ESPECIALLY eat enough carbs during their rides. Caloric deficit is made in the kitchen, not on the bike. Fueling properly will prevent binge eating after the rides and you will overall consume much less calories that way.
💯
Great advice!!
Love the content Jeff, thanks for putting this one out.
Glad you enjoyed it! 💪
Good change of pace. Always enjoy your answers to /r/velo/ even for the enthusiast cyclist who doesn't race.
Same here, I don't race but just love watching Jeff's content. This was a good mix-up from the regular race footage 🙂🙃
Thanks for this. All of these questions were on my mind today. Again another great video. I love your race day videos and voice overs but this is a different flavor and much appreciated. Keep up the good work and hopefully I can ride with you soon
I really enjoyed this and think it would be a great addition to your series of videos. More please and/or allow us to ask questions to you directly versus reddit!
Thanks for putting these videos together. Even though I do not race, they help me become a better cyclist. They also help me understand race tactics, and watching cycling races is more enjoyable. Funny you mention Lake Bluff. It's a regular stop on Z2 endurance rides. There is an excellent café on Turn One of the crit.
Jeff’s a super hero. I’ve learned so much from you man
excellent video, more like this
Definitely a good point on carbing up for Z2 rides. Once I started doing that for my 3-6 hour gravel excursions, I found that I'd get home and... not be hungry. Previously I would've eaten ALL the foods in the house.
Though if its a short weekday Z2 ride of 60-75 minutes, I only grab a small snack heading out the door, or just water.
racing with power: I have a screen on my Garmin with elapsed time and that's it. When racing starts, that's the screen that's on. ...I mean what are you going to do? Hey guys, Slow down I'm over my FTP... The computer is recording, I just can't see the numbers.
For us mortals with a roll around your middle, if you're going short in z2, try not eating. Your normal diet can sustain you for a while.
Wow, these are all gold nuggets, wish someone told me this when I first started cycling! Thanks jeff
Cornering on rails: has nothing to do with your equipment or the limits of your equipment, and everything to do with your position on the bicycle. You never want to lean your body into a turn. You want the bicycle to operate independently from you. Push the bicycle down into the corners while keeping your shoulders square to the road surface. You want your center mass to be *outside* of the top tube. If you lean into the turn and shift your mass center to the inside of the top tube, you’re making the force of gravity and the generated centrifugal force compete *against* the friction of the tires. That’s when you’ll wash out. That’s when you’ll chuck pedals. Instead, push the bike down into the corners while keeping your mass centered over the bike. Do this and gravity and the centrifugal force acting on your body, acting through the lever of the bicycle, will *multiply* the friction on the tires. Faster, tighter, more controlled cornering. This is a basic skill that I used to teach new cat5 racers, and two seasons later we had the #1 amateur team in New England.
Training wheels, hell nah. I’ve moved onto the galaxy brain setup, the training bike. Picked up a Winspace G2 like 2 years ago and kitted it out with Rival AXS wide. 43x30 upfront, 10-36 in the back, 35mm GP5000 AS TR tires, 3 bottle cages, and top tube bag. Practically never flat, can do longer rides with very little stopping, and that AXS wide setup makes doing long zone 2 sessions outdoors much more feasible where I live since it’s so mountainous/hilly. The 30/36 combo allows spinning up and lower power on everything except the steepest stuff which I would avoid on a zone 2 ride anyways. It’s been a game changer for training.
A few notes of conversation to the video. Rower dude should find a good team or buddy to hang with and hit the top secret pro rides, that much Z2 is good but not gonna cut it with that engine come competition day, as you know. In the last 5+ years I've transitioned heavily to respiration as superior to power, it's all cellular respiration in the end. The power meter has shifted to a secondary metric for "what's happening" in the body LIVE, but is still a final analysis of gains alongside all other markers. Watts aren't absolute in a training sense, but absolute in relative zone sense to performance gains. Relating first principles of body state might help a new comer with an explanation of RPE in respiration, to know what is happening across their training. New power meters tend to burn out riders similar to first gym goers who end up in endless DOMS 😆 Cool that insta360 FINALLY has a mount that won't end up in a smashed camera.
Super video and great advice. Thanks.
Rain causing it to be sketchy is one thing but what was the most poorly managed / poorly designed(sketchy) crit you've ever raced?
(Edited)
Cornering on rails: has almost nothing to do with your equipment or the limits of your equipment, and everything to do with your position on the bicycle. You never want to lean your body into a turn. You want the bicycle to operate independently from you. Push the bicycle down into the corners while keeping your shoulders square to the road surface. You want your center mass to be between the top tube and the bottom bracket. If you lean into the turn, you shift your mass center to beyond the top tube. With your weight there, you’re making the force of gravity and the generated centrifugal force compete *against* the friction of the tires. That’s when you’ll wash out. That’s when you’ll chuck pedals. Instead, push the bike down into the corners while keeping your mass centered over the bike. Do this and gravity and the centrifugal forces acting on your body, transferred through the lever of the bicycle, will *multiply* the friction on the tires. Faster, tighter, more controlled cornering. This is a basic skill that I used to teach new cat5 and cat4 racers. And it’s important for new racers to master this because it takes all the fear and chaos out of the equation and replaces it with thrilling excitement.
The only thing I’ll add is that once you start doing this you’ll want to start erring on the side of a late apex. Apex is fine, but you’ll be cornering so fast that hitting an early apex is a miscalculation you don’t want to make. Start disciplining yourself to go two or three bike lengths past the point where you’d habitually turn- which is a mere blink at speed. Cheat to a late apex and by the time you exit the turn you’ll already be mostly pointed in the direction you want to go.
Hey Jeff, I have a question. I would be grateful if you would be able to answer it.
Three weeks ago I was sick (I had a fever and sore throat for about 5 days), After a week I was feeling much better, so I did some low intensity rides, and in the whole previous week I trained only in Z2. The problem is that before the illness on Z2 power (indoor trainer) I was riding at a HR of about 145, and now my HR with the same power as before is ~160 (also indoor trainer).
So now it's been 12 days since the end of the temperature and sore throat and my HR is still not even close to what it was, how long can it take to get back to pre-sickness condition? It may seem silly, but it affects my mental while riding a lot..
For future video's, I think it would be helpful to show us viewers what 80/90/120g of carbs looks like for you - mix, bars, gels, etc. Esp for a youtube video I think that visual would be super helpful.
Tl;DR; During Z2 trainings what if my power with preferable cadence is in Z3 HR zone?
Long version:
I have a question related to power zones. Just a note - I'm riding indoor.
You said that we should focus only on power. I'm quite new into trainings (last 2 years I was riding just by feeling). I ride with cadence around 95-100 which is comfortable. Under 80 I feel knees' discomfort which is close to pain (sitting job is not good for knees).
When I tried to do a proper Z2 training based on power and my standard cadence most of the time I was in Z3 HR. The only way to stay in Z2 HR for me is spinning with a cadence around 80.
About my FTP, it's not overestimated. 2 weeks ago I did a super hard ride and could stay with this avg power 1h.
My HR zones are based on default Garmin zones. My max HR was set 2 sprints (I hit 184 and 185BPM) which I did at the end of a hard race.
What should I do then? Should I don't think about HR (and Garmin which screams that I'm not doing Z2 rides)? Or maybe Garmin standard zone are not the best? I heard that I shouldn't be able to stay in Z4 for more than hour, but I could stay there for ~1:30h during a 2h ride. Ofc, next day I was dying from tiredness and end up sick after 3days of hard push xd
if your heart rate is climbing higher than expected during a z2 ride, this is likely because you are experiencing heart rate decoupling - a classic indication that you have not spent enough time in the base period, or you are not cooling yourself properly (common on indoor trainers) and you are overheating. Or it could be both. Cool yourself properly with fans and see if your heart rate stops decoupling to find out what's going on. FYI cadence should have nothing to do with it, just ride at the cadence that feels most comfortable as long as it's within the 70-110ish range
@NorCalCycling thank you for your explanation, each time I think I know something, someone proves I'm wrong :d
I will improve my fan management and spend more time in lower intensity... Until last 2 months rides in Z2 didn't exist for me.
With cadence I thought: "faster spin equals more work for hearth equals higher HR".
Still, it doesn't look good when I need to reduce power to Z1 to stay in HR Z2 with cadence around 100.
Do you do cycling for living ? And also please make more of this type of videos it helps me a lot as a beginner
Honestly great content and replies but to prescribe just Z2 to a rower is a half-answer. They will need some intensity in base and not just purely Z2, you also don't give any feedback on progression thereafter.
Agreed 👍 but it’s a pretty complicated answer that would take up an entire video just to scratch the surface, so I decided to hit the main point which is for a new athlete who wants to train 15hrs per week, 14 should be zone 2
Nice SLO camp B roll :)
Thanks bud! i'm still trying to figure out how to make some content around SLO camp, I need to promote my new hometown event 🤙
As a not Cat #1 ..Question #1 . Yup when you are there you are there, the other thing Ill add you see trouble before it happens and you get out !! Dont ask me how I know . I just know ..Q#3 ..Yup, great answer. and With or without power .. Only back in the 1990's if you lined up with a bike computer some looked at you said "What's That?" You keep up or not, that is all you need to know.
Z2 I usually get 60g/hr 80 if it's a high intensity workout
Unless you are very small, see if you can bump it up a little you’ll see performance improvements especially on longer days
@NorCalCycling yup, am a skinny af 110lb asian lad
I have had better luck using HR for Z2 to be sure not to ride too hard. Keeping my body in Z2 is more about capping my HR than pushing a particular power number. Dr Stephen Seiler has some very interesting research on this topic.
Jeff, thanks for the video. Have you been training biceps/arms? Looking good
Good of you to give proper advice, based on real-life experiences and scientific evidence. There is often a lot of poor, perhaps even detrimental, advice on that subreddit.
Jeff thanks for the reminder to put my training wheels back on for the off season.
👍
There is no such thing as overtraining???? 😂😂😂😂😂
"...only under resting". there is a point where you can't rest enough to tolerate the training load. For some people (like myself) who have job, family, kids, etc.. that number is about 10hrs per week. any more, and I can't shed the fatigue at the rate i'm accumulating it. For pros with a full support staff that could be more like 25hrs per week. obviously this is a very simplified explanation but that's the point I'm making.