@@daniellebcooper7160 "One lives peacefully throughout western society, the other dont." Of course there are muslims who do not live peacefully in western societies and those should be kicked out, if they are not born here. And otherwise should be dealt through the judicial system. But the majority does live in peace in western countries. But of those you are not hearing much, because they are not the material to produce headlines.
If you think Palestinians and Israelis can live next to each other peacefully then my friend you are totally deuded did you not see what happened on Oct 7.
@@ijustwannaleaveacommentony6511 What about your religion and other religions, and what are the conditions for peace, who determines them everywhere, and is there peace with occupying forces throughout history?
Palestine was always a general territory never a country (initially named by the Romans as Syria-Palestina, post the Jewish Revolt of approx 135 AD). With the end of the Ottoman Empire after WW1, the British mandate of Palestine comprising both current Israel and Jordan was going to be the Jewish homeland. After WW1, the British initially placed Prince Faisal bin Hussein as King in Damascus as promised. However the French objected and Faisal was then made King of the new country Iraq. The British then split off 2/3 of its Palestine Mandate and placed Faisal’s brother Abdullah bin Hussein as king of the new country of Jordan. 1/3 was left for the Jewish homeland which was fulfilled after WW2. In land mass Israel is a very small country. It fits approx 3.3 times into Australia’s smallest state, Tasmania.
It was emperor Hadrian in 152 CE. Mandatory Palestine was a geographical region that encompassed several modern Arab countries (not only Israel and Jordan). Originally it was Ottoman Syria for 400 years
@@thanatosdriver1938 The only solution I see is Israel takes over Gaza and the West Bank. The regions become autonomous provinces of Israel, where they govern locally but aren't involved in national politics. Sort of like the UK crown dependencies of Guernsey, Jersey and the Isle of Man.
According to what? The bible? The West Bank is the land of the palestinians, according to international law. Its very clear and simple. Referring to religious scripture is useless and one reason of endless conflict in that region. If we use the bible as a basis, we could just as well use the quran as a basis. Whats the difference?
Exactly! What is happening in Australia these days? 🙄 I’m an Aussie in Egypt and I know from experience that ‘perceptions’ are everything. Emotional judgements rule in this region. We need the ‘strong horse’ to stand up to this #jihadist nonsense.
@@sandytatham3592 Im in Melbourne, and whats going on, is that the current guv are so bad, that they need every vote they can get, so theyre afraid of losing the votes from a certain demographic in western sydney.
@@daniellebcooper7160: Thanks, Danielle. So you think it's mostly for votes? It does seem to me that the current leaders actually believe that two states is the answer. Don't they know that the 'Palestinians' do not want a state alongside Israel? They want ALL of the land with NO Jews. One state would just be a foothold to create an even bigger terror base. I support Ambassador David Friedman's #OneJewishState answer, but it excludes Gaza for the near future. I'm sickened that the Egyptian people around me support their government keeping the babies and children of Gaza TRAPPED in the war zone, rather than allowing the international community to set up a humanitarian camp inside Sinai for innocent people. They want more 'human sacrifices' to create publicity to try and destroy Israel through propaganda, since they have never been able to destroy Israel militarily. I'm hopeful overall though, especially due to Saudi Arabia's modernisation just across the Red Sea from where I am in Dahab, Sinai...🇮🇱🙏💙
The two state solution has been proposed multiple times and it has been rejected multiple times. The following:- Iran/IRGC, Hezbollah, Liwa Zainebiyoun, Liwa Fatemiyoun, PIJ, Kata'ib Hezbollah, Asa'ib AHL Al-Haq, Harakat Hezbollah Al - Nunjaba, Houthis, Abu Ali Mustapha Brigades and Al - Aqsa martyrs brigade are committed to the destruction of Israel and its people. This has been their stated position for DECADES. There is no negotiation to be had with people that have the same goal as Nazi Germany. Those that engage in intellectual chess should try living in Israel.
What makes it so bad is that these people are worse than the people of Nazi Germany. At least then there was a large part (not all mind you, I don't want to let them all of the hook but still) of the population unaware of the extent of Nazi atrocities, which the Nazis themselves tried to hide. And there was more than enough people who were mortified by it that Germans were able to successfully redeem themselves. Hamas on the other hand films and proudly shows their atrocities to the world, and most Palestinians will straight up tell you they have watched it and support it with glee.
Thanks John. There are aspects to Peter Hitchens which rub me the wrong way - but he does really know this subject. In trying to form an opinion on this issue - these kinds of discussions are super useful (for an ignoramus such as my unneducated self). Thank you again.
Irrespective of the side you support and no matter what you think is a just solution, the fact is the Palestinians and the broader Arab world do not want and have never wanted any settlement that includes any form of Jewish state, or state in which Jews from a significant minority.
@@thanatosdriver1938 Not recognizing the fact doesn't change the fact, it was the largest part of the British mandate, and it was the part for the Arabs.
@@Home4Facts you mean the "country" that never existed and that the Arabs or the Palestinians never recognized or accepted? And after the 48 war, which the Islamonazis inititaed to finish the Hollocust but lost, there was no Palestine there were only Israel and Jordan because Jordan is Palestine.
As long as there are concepts like Dar ul Islam and Dar ul harb , and Jihad to conquer Dar ul Harb by using Jihad and turn it into Dar ul Islam, two state solution isn’t possible.
The origin of the Ashkenazi Jews, who come most recently from Europe, has largely been shrouded in mystery. But a new study suggests that at least their maternal lineage may derive largely from Europe. Though the finding may seem intuitive, it contradicts the notion that European Jews mostly descend from people who left Israel and the Middle East around 2,000 years ago. Instead, a substantial proportion of the population originates from local Europeans who converted to Judaism, said study co-author Martin Richards, an archaeogeneticist at the University of Huddersfield in England. Tangled legacy
@@rewdwarf123 1. There is no 'palestine'. There is only the palestinian authority. And, in Gaza there was Hamas Gov't. Now all dead. 2. No Arab here agrees to a 2 state solution. 3. What sane people would give a band of terrorists an independent state, to increase their terrorism.
The children from each nation would have to find acceptance amongst each other in order for them to coexist together. The media in each country would also have to go. Both sides have been programmed for conflict.
There is no will among the people on either side or among the leadership of either side for a two state solution at the moment. Only 33% of Palestinians and 34% of Israelis even want a 2 state solution anymore, and the Netanyahu government obviously doesn't want it, and Hamas and the PA obviously don't want it. The majority of palestinians have never wanted it, and after the 2nd intifada in 2000, which followed an offer of a Palestinian state by Ehud Barak, Israelis have realized that Palestinians will never accept a realistic 2 state solution because they are brainwashed into believing they are entitled to all the land. Israelis fear that Palestinians will just use a state as a better vantage point to attack Israel from. I don't see any possible solution to the conflict. Because a one state solution would be a disaster and make the former Yugoslavia look like a peaceful place, and a two state solution is currently impossible without a major psychological and political shift on both sides.
@@olgakanter5656Please read my post more carefully before commenting, I said currently there is no will among Israelis for a 2 state solution. I also mentioned that the last time Israel offered the Palestinians a state was in 2000. In fact Israel has offered the Palestinians a state 4 times since 1947 (5 if you count the original partition plan) and the Palestinians turned each offer down and followed it up by attacking Israel. However, Israel has not proposed a 2 state solution since 2000.
@@thanatosdriver1938 Aha... that's the rub. The people who say the two state solution cannot work never want the war to be over. In fact, what they want is a final solution to the Palestine problem.
The term “West Bank” is a modern designation that lacks historical precedent or validity. This region is historically known as Judea, a name deeply rooted in Jewish history and heritage. The name “West Bank” was coined by Jordan following its armed and hostile invasion of the area in 1948 until the end of its occupation in 1967. However, this land has been intrinsically linked to the Jewish people for millennia. Judea is the land from which the Jews (i.e. Judeans) originate, a region where the Judean mountains form the backbone of the landscape. It is the territory historically allotted to the Tribe of Judah, one of the twelve tribes of Israel. The Judeans, or Jews, have lived in this area for many centuries, establishing a rich historical legacy. The cultural significance of Judea to the Jewish people cannot be overstated, making the term “West Bank” a misnomer that overlooks the profound connection between the land and its ancient inhabitants.
@@Home4FactsPerhaps some of them. However, before the Jews went to that place during the time of Ottomans, it was depopulated and barely developed. Most the Palestians living there are descendants of migrant workers that came from other areas of Ottoman Empire and also during the British Mandate for work. They haven’t been there for centuries as they claim. They came as migrants for work. So I find it ironic they are calling people who come from abroad who have maintained their Jewish indemnity and ancestry to go back to their historical homeland. In 1948, half of the population in Jerusalem were Jews. The Ottomans didn’t even call that region as Palestine. They split the land into 2 different provinces. The name Palestine is Greco-Roman in origin. It refers to the Phillistines, the ancient enemy of the Israelites. Nonetheless, there has been immense amount of intermixing. Technically, even Christians in that area can have Jewish ancestry. Since the early Christians were originally a part of Jewish society and were involves in synagogues. However, the Jews that we talk about are the ones that can trace their ancestry and have maintained their identity as Jews.
@@Justin-ui5ti Respectfully speaking, your first paragraphs are Zoinist propaganda in the vain of “a land for a people, for a people without a land”. But I’m happy to accept a some Arabs may have migrated to Palestine for work in the 19th century. But 750,000 of them were ethnically cleansed in 1948. Question: If 20 million people from China or Nigeria converted to Judaism tomorrow - would they be indigenous to Israel since they would see it as their holy land? If not, why not?
@@Home4Facts Answer: Can they track their mother’s ancestry that shows their roots? If so then they can come back. If they converted then they have to follow the extremely strict process. Yeah that’s a thing. It takes 5 years and the process is very strict and long. Afterwards, they had to remain a member of a “J” community for a minimum of 2 years to make sure they aren’t faking it.
That’s the stupidest lie I’ve ever heard. And, “by heard,” I mean, read. And by read, I mean: read in the books, articles, testimonies, firsthand accounts, etc., by JEWISH and ISRAELI authors, historians, journalists, diplomats, firsthand witnesses, et al. If you would like a long list, I can provide, Mr. Troll. By the way, how much are they paying you? $8.50/hr.?
Everyone wants a 2 state solution because it makes sense to the countries who are not in the area …. And they think that’s the easy answer… problem is who is going to run this government!!! Are there any people who are genuine leaders who understand what it takes to be a democracy!!!
democracy requires equal basic rights to people governed by the same authority. Gaza, Israel, and the West Bank are a custom union, a labour union, and are under the control of the Israeli government. In order to achieve some sort of democracy, Israel should allow either self governance, or independence, or citizenship to the Palestinians. Instead Israel routinely exercises the lack of constitutional rights on the Palestinians. Israel has been documented since the year 1998 of stealing 40,000 dunums of land from West Bank, with no compensation to owners, and confiscated 1,350 housing units that were built and inhabited by Arabs prior to the state sanctioned theft. This kind of behaviour is not democratic.
Why should Israel put up with an enduring Arab occupation of Judea and Samaria? And Hamas not corrupt? Have you never seen the "modest" lives their leaders live in the Gulf states? Or am I not allowed to point that out on UA-cam?
Informal agreement; I think it is an interesting and good thread. Thank you Mr. Anderson .. Mr Hitchens both clear thinkers. One comment: equality and unjust treatment of the ‘other’ all based on religion.. how does that sit with democracy??
The final statement on this topic has been given by Golda Meir: Peace will only come when they begin to love their children more than they hate us. All other opinion is of no value
John, please bring an Israeli expert to discuss Israel. With all due respect to Peter, he is still an outsider to the topic. You wouldn’t listen to an Israeli expert explaining the Irish English conflict, right?
As an israeli i agree 100% with this view. It is very refreshing to see someone say this out load. The only solution will be a Palestinian autonomy in the west bank and gaza in areas a+ b. Thats an informal solution that is not perfect but will let people get on with their lives. That, in my opinion, is the maximum co existence that israelis and Palestinians will ever reach
You know what they need? Two football clubs that play in the same league. Then everyone can get all those centuries of hatred out their system through the football like the Protestants and Catholics do in Scotland. Everyone goes back to work together on the Monday and gloat to the other side about who won.
There is no real problem with formalizing a peace treaty between Israel and the so-called Palestinians, or any other Muslim-Arab country/entity, other than one - it would mean recognizing the state of Israel as a perpetual entity in this region, and this is something they will never live with. Israel conceded from A LOT of land in the past in return for peace, that's not the issue here. Israel is a peaceful country with peaceful people, as long as they are not terrorized and driven into war forcefully. Why can't the Arabs just live their lives? What is this never-ending hatred and murderous ambitions towards the Jews? Arabs slaughtered Jews long before Israel was established. Also, did you ask yourselves what happened to the hundreds of thousands of Jews who used to live in Arab countries? They are all gone. Do you know why? (I know, but go check for yourselves... THIS is ethnic cleansing, not what the so-called Palestinians are crying about falsely and intentionally).
Westerners care because Israel is actually a Western country, it has nothing in common with the rest of the region because the settlers migrated there from Europe and the United States. Even now Israeli law gives all Jews from the US and Europe the right to migrate to the Holy Land and becoming Israeli settlers if they wish to.
Thanks for the interview. I missed a deeper account and analysis of the experience of Palestinian people. CH presents as if Israel is a democracy which inoculates it against bad behaviour. If peace is ever to slowly emerge truth and reconciliation are needed. This includes an understanding in the west of Palestinian experiences. Israel always justifies its actions on the basis that its targets are terrorist, yet the majority of the victims are innocents. The relatives and friends of the death and maimed innocents understandably feel fear and anger, and I’m sure we all would. So what to do with that fear and anger? If the US doesn’t force Israel out of the westbank and East Jerusalem, where do people put their hope and despair? Most countries and international agencies condem Israel ‘s behaviour, so it’s really not on to blame the victims. There are plenty of Jewish voices dissenting from the Zionist line. Can you interview one or two of those in the interests of education and dialogue?
One state solution is the solution. Those who accept Israeli rule remains and naturalise as Israeli citizens, those who don’t should move to Jordan, Lebanon or Egypt
The Arabs REJECTED that Resolution. They don’t want the Jewish state of Israel to exist in the middle of their Pan-Arab dream🙄. They’ve now #forfeited any chance at having their own state alongside Israel. And why would the world keep *rewarding violence* with offers like that? Of course the international leaders didn’t want to upset the Arab nations which have oil to sell to the West. Thankfully we are finally seeing the end of appeasement of the so-called Palestinians. “One Jewish State” as proposed by David Friedman is the only pragmatic answer. The Arab children of this area need a chance to thrive and prosper, just like today’s two million Arab Israeli citizens.
I think the "two state solution" died on October 7. It was already on life support, but any chance it had is gone. The only outcome I can see with any chance of viability is to give Jordanian or Egyptian citizenship to the Palestinians in Gaza and Judea and Samaria. They would be able to stay where they are at, but would not be given a new state of their own to live in. Even that might not really work, but I can't think of any other option that Israel would accept and would provide some type of citizenship for the Palestinians. It's either that or fight forever.
Of course, we can achieve just about anything if we try. Can Catholics and Protestants live in peace, yes, it isn't perfect, can Christians coexist in Lebanon without conflict, yes. But all peaceful resolution requires someone who truely wants peace and doesn't continually look back 2000 years . We don't have those leaders in this region yet but it will happen
Comparison with Christianity's subdivisions is misguided. Islam is very different. Christianity is almost an opt in / opt out religion, Islam is much more deeply ingrained in its people's thinking and way of life
@@johnduddy2359 cobblers, just watch the behaviour of southern Baptists - all religions have extremist elements but the overwhelming majority are not those people
@@wfifa199 there's nothing empirical about religion, history or politics..... But there are plenty of examples where Islam fails to coexist with other religions, and plenty of examples where sunni & shia Islam fail to coexist
Two state or one state, Israel will continue to have an embittered enemy on the other side of a border unless it can concede something dramatic enough to make the majority of Palestinians thankful. Giving them the whole of the West Bank and part of Jerusalem might do it, but anything other, I don't see it. As long as there are substantial Palestinians left in Israel, say 10 or 20 percent, I'd guess surrounding Moslem countries can and will keep a proxy war going.
A two state solution in the geographical region known as 'Palestine' has existed for over 75 years: Jordan and Israel. Mandate Palestine (July 24th, 1922) partitioned 'Palestine' into an Arab division and a Jewish/minority division. The Arab partition became sovereign Jordan in 1946 and the Jewish/minority partition became sovereign Israel in 1948. Jordan is the Arab partition of "Palestine" and Israel is the Jewish/minority partition. (Reference: Mandate Palestine: July 24th, 1922 and the Transjordan Memorandum: Sept. 16th, 1922; ute possidetus juris).
This interview is from 2023, according to the notes. It would be more relevant if the precise date was provided (i.e. was this before or after October 7th?).
If the Israelis have a right to veto a "2state solution" for Israel & Palestine, then the Russians should be given the same veto to stop a "2 state solution" for Russia & Ukraine. There's nothing radical about a 2state solution. It's been a feature of modern international conflict resolution since WW1 and has given birth to dozens of states who are now members of the UN.
Some can and do, but that doesn't seem to be the majority and is mostly well outside of that part of the world. I'd like to see peaceful coexistence, but I think what very little chance there was of that ended just over one year ago.
In the 80s it was completely open along the west bank, been and drove around there on many occasions. If the forced confiscation and resettlement had not taken place as subsidized by US funds and Israeli organizations, the contradictions would not have increased.
The flaw in his 'coexistence' proposal is that the Israeli view of that and the Palestinian view are quite different. Until such time as either the Palestinian peoples just give up the unequal struggle, or the Israelis agree to genuine equal rights, it's a non-starter as a permanent solution, and neither seems in sight at the moment.
Israel needs to increase their borders (to the original, before giving so much back) , and grow idf, get your people back! The technology, money, and weapons keep to yourself 🇮🇱 and build the deadliest wall!! God bless you all 🙏🙏 the west let you down!!!
_Syria Palaestina_ was the renamed Roman province formerly known as Judaea, following the Roman suppression of the _Bar Kokhba_ Revolt. This was the first appearance of the term fabricated by the Romans, in English, Palestine. At that same time, Jerusalem was renamed _Aelia Capitolina._ It was in this period, around the destruction of the Second Jewish Temple, that the word "Palestine" first appeared. The people who call themselves "Palestinians" are of *Arabic* origin.
My grandffather lived in the sinai. Sold his house a month before israel gave it to egypt. He wouldve lost everything. He told me how gaza was the best place for mechanic work
Having a well-established sense of humor is a powerful tool for any one public persona. Peter Hitchens, otherwise (and still) admired by many, must be joking when he claims Hamas is not corrupt (3:40), as levels of personal wealth of various Hamas leaders (for example, Ismail Haniyeh's, in the many millions of privately cached bank accounts) are well known in the Arab world.
The current suggestion re a two state solution is impossible for Israel to deal with. I do not see why these Atabs don't return to Jordan (if Jordan will have them) but the idea of an informal agreement has merit. We shall see but forcing a 2 state solution will not work. Interesting conversation.
No two state solution is possible as long as one side wants the destruction of the other.
No, only one side wants the destruction of the other...
@@evegoodmon One lives peacefully throughout western society, the other dont.
@@daniellebcooper7160 One sides constantly goads the West into wars and drains it of profits.
@@daniellebcooper7160 "One lives peacefully throughout western society, the other dont."
Of course there are muslims who do not live peacefully in western societies and those should be kicked out, if they are not born here. And otherwise should be dealt through the judicial system.
But the majority does live in peace in western countries. But of those you are not hearing much, because they are not the material to produce headlines.
True. The goal of Likud is sovereignty of Israel from the river to the sea, according to their charter.
If you think Palestinians and Israelis can live next to each other peacefully then my friend you are totally deuded did you not see what happened on Oct 7.
is lims can't live anywhere peacefully
Nobody ever asks how should Palestinians respond to Israel's daily brutal treatment for 75 years.
@@ijustwannaleaveacommentony6511 What about your religion and other religions, and what are the conditions for peace, who determines them everywhere, and is there peace with occupying forces throughout history?
@@mohamedali2858 what about it
Ok let’s assume the war gets finished. Now what?
Maybe what you should be asking is can Islam and the modern world co-exist.
Maybe what you should be asking is can Australia and Indonesia co-exist.
very true.
Exactly
Right question. Answer - NO
They can’t Islam is inherently evil.
I wish Christopher Hitchens was still alive
He’d be on the same page by now.
His brother is an embarrassment to the name he made for himself.
Christopher Hitchens was against the very creation and existence of Israel.
@@jaybee9269 Elaborate, please, I am interested in your opinion
@@borssky
He makes an interesting point, no body wants a formal settlement, people want informal arrangements.
There is already the Arab Palestinian state - Jordan. That's it.
Nooooo.
Jordan is a country. Palestine was and still is just a region.
@@daniellebcooper7160 Palestine is a state...with an flag....and a capital.
@@PrettyGoodLookin theres a flag, but there never has been a state nor a capitol.
false-tinians are fake, invented . Jews who lived in the Palestinian area before 1948 were also considered Palestinians under British role or Ottomans
Palestine was always a general territory never a country (initially named by the Romans as Syria-Palestina, post the Jewish Revolt of approx 135 AD). With the end of the Ottoman Empire after WW1, the British mandate of Palestine comprising both current Israel and Jordan was going to be the Jewish homeland.
After WW1, the British initially placed Prince Faisal bin Hussein as King in Damascus as promised. However the French objected and Faisal was then made King of the new country Iraq. The British then split off 2/3 of its Palestine Mandate and placed Faisal’s brother Abdullah bin Hussein as king of the new country of Jordan. 1/3 was left for the Jewish homeland which was fulfilled after WW2.
In land mass Israel is a very small country. It fits approx 3.3 times into Australia’s smallest state, Tasmania.
Thank you for taking the time to write out the actual history of the region.
It was emperor Hadrian in 152 CE. Mandatory Palestine was a geographical region that encompassed several modern Arab countries (not only Israel and Jordan). Originally it was Ottoman Syria for 400 years
@rosierose3257 the mandate was to create a Jewish state
@@mdelcb9915 there were no "Palestine" in Ottoman Empire. There were Beirut, Damascus, Homs, Aleppo and Al-Quds (Holy Land). All were part of "Syria".
⅘, not ⅔ of the British Palestinian mandate became Jordan.
A thinker - I don't think the BBC likes him.
NO. STOP TALKING ABOUT IT AS A 2 STATE SOLUTION >>>>> IT IS NOT GOING TO HAPPEN?
Ok so now what?
2 state delusion
@@thanatosdriver1938 The only solution I see is Israel takes over Gaza and the West Bank. The regions become autonomous provinces of Israel, where they govern locally but aren't involved in national politics. Sort of like the UK crown dependencies of Guernsey, Jersey and the Isle of Man.
it is good to hear balance and comprehensiveness!
No. Absolutely not.
Mathew 12:22~28...
A House divided cannot Stand.
Jesus Christ is KING.....!!!!!
The two state solution was established by the UN in 1948
West Bank is Judea which is the homeland of the Jews after which they are called.
According to what? The bible? The West Bank is the land of the palestinians, according to international law. Its very clear and simple.
Referring to religious scripture is useless and one reason of endless conflict in that region.
If we use the bible as a basis, we could just as well use the quran as a basis.
Whats the difference?
No Read the Torah ! Read all and properly- it’s is not JEWISH land - also you may re to Rabbi Weiss Rabbi Shapiro thank you
Jews were there first. Dibs.
A canaanite tribe
There's no such thing as Judea and Samaria. Those terms are as obsolete as calling northern Italy Cisalpine Gaul. Grow up.
Hamas took encouragement from Australian anti Israel conduct by foreign minister Wong.
Exactly! What is happening in Australia these days? 🙄 I’m an Aussie in Egypt and I know from experience that ‘perceptions’ are everything. Emotional judgements rule in this region. We need the ‘strong horse’ to stand up to this #jihadist nonsense.
Do you really anyone here care what the Australians do or care ? 😂
We only know your country from Tasmania and kangaroos
@@sandytatham3592 Im in Melbourne, and whats going on, is that the current guv are so bad, that they need every vote they can get, so theyre afraid of losing the votes from a certain demographic in western sydney.
Wong is Wrong.
@@daniellebcooper7160: Thanks, Danielle. So you think it's mostly for votes? It does seem to me that the current leaders actually believe that two states is the answer. Don't they know that the 'Palestinians' do not want a state alongside Israel? They want ALL of the land with NO Jews. One state would just be a foothold to create an even bigger terror base.
I support Ambassador David Friedman's #OneJewishState answer, but it excludes Gaza for the near future. I'm sickened that the Egyptian people around me support their government keeping the babies and children of Gaza TRAPPED in the war zone, rather than allowing the international community to set up a humanitarian camp inside Sinai for innocent people. They want more 'human sacrifices' to create publicity to try and destroy Israel through propaganda, since they have never been able to destroy Israel militarily. I'm hopeful overall though, especially due to Saudi Arabia's modernisation just across the Red Sea from where I am in Dahab, Sinai...🇮🇱🙏💙
The two state solution has been proposed multiple times and it has been rejected multiple times. The following:- Iran/IRGC, Hezbollah, Liwa Zainebiyoun, Liwa Fatemiyoun, PIJ, Kata'ib Hezbollah, Asa'ib AHL Al-Haq, Harakat Hezbollah Al - Nunjaba, Houthis, Abu Ali Mustapha Brigades and Al - Aqsa martyrs brigade are committed to the destruction of Israel and its people. This has been their stated position for DECADES. There is no negotiation to be had with people that have the same goal as Nazi Germany. Those that engage in intellectual chess should try living in Israel.
💯%👍
What makes it so bad is that these people are worse than the people of Nazi Germany. At least then there was a large part (not all mind you, I don't want to let them all of the hook but still) of the population unaware of the extent of Nazi atrocities, which the Nazis themselves tried to hide. And there was more than enough people who were mortified by it that Germans were able to successfully redeem themselves.
Hamas on the other hand films and proudly shows their atrocities to the world, and most Palestinians will straight up tell you they have watched it and support it with glee.
Thanks John. There are aspects to Peter Hitchens which rub me the wrong way - but he does really know this subject. In trying to form an opinion on this issue - these kinds of discussions are super useful (for an ignoramus such as my unneducated self). Thank you again.
Irrespective of the side you support and no matter what you think is a just solution, the fact is the Palestinians and the broader Arab world do not want and have never wanted any settlement that includes any form of Jewish state, or state in which Jews from a significant minority.
It was never about their religion.
They are hated because of the injustice that they are inflicting on the natives of the land
@@GGGG_3333 disagree strongly.
@@wonderkid-wr7mh I know I would fight if my country was taken over by foreigners from another continent 😅
@@GGGG_3333No, it’s about religion - anywhere Islam once was is theirs, regardless of prior presence.
@@kevinmcfarlane2752 please clarify your statement
Peter Hitchens regularly has very good foresight.
Palestinians should go to Jordan. Israelis should stay in the Holy Land.
They should go to where they came from.
Settler gangs must return to the homelands they came from.
Neither the Jordanians nor the Palestinians recognize the Palestinians as Jordanian this is not happening
NO arab country wants them!
@@thanatosdriver1938 Not recognizing the fact doesn't change the fact, it was the largest part of the British mandate, and it was the part for the Arabs.
I know they had their differences, but Peter's voice is so much like his brothers. I miss Christopher Hitchens.
Public school English!
Jordan is Palestine. There will be no Palestinian entity west of the Jordan river.
When the partition was drawn up in 1947/48 - what would the other country have been called?
@@Home4Facts you mean the "country" that never existed and that the Arabs or the Palestinians never recognized or accepted? And after the 48 war, which the Islamonazis inititaed to finish the Hollocust but lost, there was no Palestine there were only Israel and Jordan because Jordan is Palestine.
@@Home4Facts Exactly. If your auntie had balls she’d be your uncle.
Palestine is from the river to the sea
@@Auldreekie967 huh, what has that joke got to do with anything?
Please answer the question if you can.
As long as there are concepts like Dar ul Islam and Dar ul harb , and Jihad to conquer Dar ul Harb by using Jihad and turn it into Dar ul Islam, two state solution isn’t possible.
No
The origin of the Ashkenazi Jews, who come most recently from Europe, has largely been shrouded in mystery. But a new study suggests that at least their maternal lineage may derive largely from Europe.
Though the finding may seem intuitive, it contradicts the notion that European Jews mostly descend from people who left Israel and the Middle East around 2,000 years ago. Instead, a substantial proportion of the population originates from local Europeans who converted to Judaism, said study co-author Martin Richards, an archaeogeneticist at the University of Huddersfield in England.
Tangled legacy
This is an old theory and genetics has now disproven the khazar theory
@@stephenglasse9756 DNA is DNA which always prove accurate this is how a lot of crime cases are proven.
Ask him if he wants to talk about drugs. That'll be interesting.
From river to sea is not a 2 state solution.
I still don't understand that saying.
@@adiintel1 There are no Arabs living here who agree to a 2 state solution. They want it all. From the river to the sea as they proclaim
No. The coastal part of Palestine (Gaza) doesn't connect with the river Jordan.
@@rewdwarf123 1. There is no 'palestine'. There is only the palestinian authority. And, in Gaza there was Hamas Gov't. Now all dead.
2. No Arab here agrees to a 2 state solution.
3. What sane people would give a band of terrorists an independent state, to increase their terrorism.
@@adiintel1 Maybe you don't want to understand
The children from each nation would have to find acceptance amongst each other in order for them to coexist together. The media in each country would also have to go. Both sides have been programmed for conflict.
one is programed for offence, which includes all throughout western society, while the other is programed to defend its country.
@@daniellebcooper7160
"How I unleaded Zionism "
Dr Gabor Mate, Holocaust Survivor.
@@mariahewitt9787 Zionism is lame. But the zios are not the aggressors in this conflict
@@daniellebcooper7160 You’re biased and programmed with stereotypes. They’re both programmed to hate. It doesn’t matter if they’re western or eastern.
@@jclay452 Am i?. When was the last time a mob of 'Davids' gathered in either Melbourne or Sydney, and chanted death and destruction to anyone''?.
Do as South Africa did. One state, equal rights.
There is no will among the people on either side or among the leadership of either side for a two state solution at the moment. Only 33% of Palestinians and 34% of Israelis even want a 2 state solution anymore, and the Netanyahu government obviously doesn't want it, and Hamas and the PA obviously don't want it. The majority of palestinians have never wanted it, and after the 2nd intifada in 2000, which followed an offer of a Palestinian state by Ehud Barak, Israelis have realized that Palestinians will never accept a realistic 2 state solution because they are brainwashed into believing they are entitled to all the land. Israelis fear that Palestinians will just use a state as a better vantage point to attack Israel from. I don't see any possible solution to the conflict. Because a one state solution would be a disaster and make the former Yugoslavia look like a peaceful place, and a two state solution is currently impossible without a major psychological and political shift on both sides.
@@john-danielmunoz3469 not true! Israel was agreed to that many times! Get the info
@@olgakanter5656Please read my post more carefully before commenting, I said currently there is no will among Israelis for a 2 state solution. I also mentioned that the last time Israel offered the Palestinians a state was in 2000. In fact Israel has offered the Palestinians a state 4 times since 1947 (5 if you count the original partition plan) and the Palestinians turned each offer down and followed it up by attacking Israel. However, Israel has not proposed a 2 state solution since 2000.
Sorry you right!@@john-danielmunoz3469
So why not a one State solution? With forced integration?
❤ John and Peter
That possibility was dead from the start
THE TWO STATE SOLUTION WILL NEVER, EVER WORK. SO, STOP PUSHING IT. AD.
Ok so when the war is over, what happens?
@@thanatosdriver1938 Aha... that's the rub. The people who say the two state solution cannot work never want the war to be over. In fact, what they want is a final solution to the Palestine problem.
They used to say that about Ireland
The term “West Bank” is a modern designation that lacks historical precedent or validity. This region is historically known as Judea, a name deeply rooted in Jewish history and heritage. The name “West Bank” was coined by Jordan following its armed and hostile invasion of the area in 1948 until the end of its occupation in 1967. However, this land has been intrinsically linked to the Jewish people for millennia.
Judea is the land from which the Jews (i.e. Judeans) originate, a region where the Judean mountains form the backbone of the landscape. It is the territory historically allotted to the Tribe of Judah, one of the twelve tribes of Israel. The Judeans, or Jews, have lived in this area for many centuries, establishing a rich historical legacy. The cultural significance of Judea to the Jewish people cannot be overstated, making the term “West Bank” a misnomer that overlooks the profound connection between the land and its ancient inhabitants.
Why can’t the Palestinians be Jews who converted to Islam?
@@Home4Facts Anything is possible, I guess?
@@Home4FactsPerhaps some of them.
However, before the Jews went to that place during the time of Ottomans, it was depopulated and barely developed.
Most the Palestians living there are descendants of migrant workers that came from other areas of Ottoman Empire and also during the British Mandate for work. They haven’t been there for centuries as they claim.
They came as migrants for work.
So I find it ironic they are calling people who come from abroad who have maintained their Jewish indemnity and ancestry to go back to their historical homeland.
In 1948, half of the population in Jerusalem were Jews.
The Ottomans didn’t even call that region as Palestine. They split the land into 2 different provinces.
The name Palestine is Greco-Roman in origin. It refers to the Phillistines, the ancient enemy of the Israelites.
Nonetheless, there has been immense amount of intermixing.
Technically, even Christians in that area can have Jewish ancestry. Since the early Christians were originally a part of Jewish society and were involves in synagogues.
However, the Jews that we talk about are the ones that can trace their ancestry and have maintained their identity as Jews.
@@Justin-ui5ti Respectfully speaking, your first paragraphs are Zoinist propaganda in the vain of “a land for a people, for a people without a land”.
But I’m happy to accept a some Arabs may have migrated to Palestine for work in the 19th century. But 750,000 of them were ethnically cleansed in 1948.
Question: If 20 million people from China or Nigeria converted to Judaism tomorrow - would they be indigenous to Israel since they would see it as their holy land? If not, why not?
@@Home4Facts Answer: Can they track their mother’s ancestry that shows their roots?
If so then they can come back.
If they converted then they have to follow the extremely strict process.
Yeah that’s a thing. It takes 5 years and the process is very strict and long. Afterwards, they had to remain a member of a “J” community for a minimum of 2 years to make sure they aren’t faking it.
Totally well stated Peter!
There’s no such thing as Palestinians
Arafat the inventor of Palestinians was was Egyptian born in Cairo that says everything u need to know
That’s the stupidest lie I’ve ever heard. And, “by heard,” I mean, read. And by read, I mean: read in the books, articles, testimonies, firsthand accounts, etc., by JEWISH and ISRAELI authors, historians, journalists, diplomats, firsthand witnesses, et al. If you would like a long list, I can provide, Mr. Troll. By the way, how much are they paying you? $8.50/hr.?
No Palestinians are jews that made up of arab jews full blood jews aka Palestinians Christians that it
There is no such thing as America either, Christopher Columbus was born in Italy
@@cameronkahn6470We are all Africans! That is where our ancestors come from.
@@willx9352 correct
You're 100% correct
Simple: no.
Everyone wants a 2 state solution because it makes sense to the countries who are not in the area …. And they think that’s the easy answer… problem is who is going to run this government!!! Are there any people who are genuine leaders who understand what it takes to be a democracy!!!
democracy requires equal basic rights to people governed by the same authority. Gaza, Israel, and the West Bank are a custom union, a labour union, and are under the control of the Israeli government. In order to achieve some sort of democracy, Israel should allow either self governance, or independence, or citizenship to the Palestinians. Instead Israel routinely exercises the lack of constitutional rights on the Palestinians. Israel has been documented since the year 1998 of stealing 40,000 dunums of land from West Bank, with no compensation to owners, and confiscated 1,350 housing units that were built and inhabited by Arabs prior to the state sanctioned theft. This kind of behaviour is not democratic.
Haibar Haibar ya Yahud and Hudeibia Peace. You know that, you know everything.
Wrong: Arafat didn't want Jerico, he wanted Tel Aviv.....
Jordan is Palestine.
There is a Jordanian Flag and a Palestinian Flag.
Jordan is a country. Palestine was and still is just a region.
@@daniellebcooper7160 Palestine, officially the State of Palestine, is a country in the southern Levant region of West Asia .
@@PrettyGoodLookin only in the minds of those who dont know what a woman is, or the brainwashed.
@@daniellebcooper7160
"Zionists Don't believe in God,but they believe he gave them Palestine "
~Ilan Pappe.
Brilliant 👏
"Palestinians" is a misnomer.
Violent aggressive arab occupiers more like
It's a word from the Jewish Bible used to be philistines which translate to invaders, funny they decided to use that word
@@imascrew6218 Eretz plishtim (ארץ פלישתים) or the land of the invaders.
He may be wrong on drugs but he’s spot on about the Palestinians.
He may be wrong on God but he's spot on about ADHD/ADD
Why should Israel put up with an enduring Arab occupation of Judea and Samaria?
And Hamas not corrupt? Have you never seen the "modest" lives their leaders live in the Gulf states?
Or am I not allowed to point that out on UA-cam?
I think Hitchens means "less corrupt".
Informal agreement; I think it is an interesting and good thread.
Thank you Mr. Anderson .. Mr Hitchens both clear thinkers.
One comment:
equality and unjust treatment of the ‘other’ all based on religion.. how does that sit with democracy??
The final statement on this topic has been given by Golda Meir: Peace will only come when they begin to love their children more than they hate us.
All other opinion is of no value
John, please bring an Israeli expert to discuss Israel. With all due respect to Peter, he is still an outsider to the topic. You wouldn’t listen to an Israeli expert explaining the Irish English conflict, right?
As an israeli i agree 100% with this view. It is very refreshing to see someone say this out load. The only solution will be a Palestinian autonomy in the west bank and gaza in areas a+ b. Thats an informal solution that is not perfect but will let people get on with their lives. That, in my opinion, is the maximum co existence that israelis and Palestinians will ever reach
75 years of Apartheid rule is tyrany!
You know what they need? Two football clubs that play in the same league. Then everyone can get all those centuries of hatred out their system through the football like the Protestants and Catholics do in Scotland. Everyone goes back to work together on the Monday and gloat to the other side about who won.
They don't even play in the same continent!
Can Israel and Palestine Coexist? No! We haven't figured that out yet since 1948?
Israel has shown that it can, but it takes both obviously
The opportunity was lost when the Arabs refused to agree to the 1947 UN partition plan.
NO! Read what they write in their own words and manifesto, listen to what the Palestinians say in their own words....
Have you read the Hamas manifesto? Have you read the Likud manifesto? Compare and contrast. See what's similar.
No!!!
"Israelis used to go to Gazza for the nightlife".😅😅😅😅
Peter Hitchens is a goose.
Did that really happen?
There is no real problem with formalizing a peace treaty between Israel and the so-called Palestinians, or any other Muslim-Arab country/entity, other than one - it would mean recognizing the state of Israel as a perpetual entity in this region, and this is something they will never live with. Israel conceded from A LOT of land in the past in return for peace, that's not the issue here. Israel is a peaceful country with peaceful people, as long as they are not terrorized and driven into war forcefully. Why can't the Arabs just live their lives? What is this never-ending hatred and murderous ambitions towards the Jews? Arabs slaughtered Jews long before Israel was established. Also, did you ask yourselves what happened to the hundreds of thousands of Jews who used to live in Arab countries? They are all gone. Do you know why? (I know, but go check for yourselves... THIS is ethnic cleansing, not what the so-called Palestinians are crying about falsely and intentionally).
Comparing Israel to France and Algeria is absurd. The Jews are not colonists in Israel. The Muslims are.
Old !
Clipped from an old video interview from 10 months ago
ty
Yes. But still important to hear.
It was tried in 2005 with Gaza...the answer came October 2023
Why do we westerners care, our countries have got enough of it's own problems with the same people
Because Israel is the most important country on earth.
Isreal is the only country fighting the biggest enemy of the West directly, which is radical Islamist states and militias.
Yes the problems that the Israelis are trying to demolish right now...
Jerusalem is essential to the Western metapsycholgy.
Westerners care because Israel is actually a Western country, it has nothing in common with the rest of the region because the settlers migrated there from Europe and the United States. Even now Israeli law gives all Jews from the US and Europe the right to migrate to the Holy Land and becoming Israeli settlers if they wish to.
Thanks for the interview. I missed a deeper account and analysis of the experience of Palestinian people. CH presents as if Israel is a democracy which inoculates it against bad behaviour. If peace is ever to slowly emerge truth and reconciliation are needed. This includes an understanding in the west of Palestinian experiences. Israel always justifies its actions on the basis that its targets are terrorist, yet the majority of the victims are innocents. The relatives and friends of the death and maimed innocents understandably feel fear and anger, and I’m sure we all would. So what to do with that fear and anger? If the US doesn’t force Israel out of the westbank and East Jerusalem, where do people put their hope and despair? Most countries and international agencies condem Israel ‘s behaviour, so it’s really not on to blame the victims. There are plenty of Jewish voices dissenting from the Zionist line. Can you interview one or two of those in the interests of education and dialogue?
One state solution is the solution. Those who accept Israeli rule remains and naturalise as Israeli citizens, those who don’t should move to Jordan,
Lebanon or Egypt
That would make Jews the minority in Israel.
What, and accept their original nationalities? The horror!!!
They won't like that David Ben Gorien only wanted 20% Palestinian population to live in Israel thus ensuring Jews are the majority
@@Home4Facts But not in the parliament/government, if West Bank and Gaza are autonomous regions, that don't send representatives to the Knesset.
@@rewdwarf123 so who are they voting for?
For such a smart person Peter doesn’t know what he’s talking about
The world in 1948 decides for 2 state solution. All the international community decided for 2 state solution.
The Arabs REJECTED that Resolution. They don’t want the Jewish state of Israel to exist in the middle of their Pan-Arab dream🙄. They’ve now #forfeited any chance at having their own state alongside Israel. And why would the world keep *rewarding violence* with offers like that? Of course the international leaders didn’t want to upset the Arab nations which have oil to sell to the West. Thankfully we are finally seeing the end of appeasement of the so-called Palestinians. “One Jewish State” as proposed by David Friedman is the only pragmatic answer. The Arab children of this area need a chance to thrive and prosper, just like today’s two million Arab Israeli citizens.
They could also decide that we all can fly, what a missed opportunity
Not everybody in the international community. The Arab nations didn't agree and attacked the new born state...
@@cboz3712 Now it is in another point, because this war is absurd.
@@cboz3712 In that time US, URSS (Rússia), China…
I think the "two state solution" died on October 7. It was already on life support, but any chance it had is gone. The only outcome I can see with any chance of viability is to give Jordanian or Egyptian citizenship to the Palestinians in Gaza and Judea and Samaria. They would be able to stay where they are at, but would not be given a new state of their own to live in. Even that might not really work, but I can't think of any other option that Israel would accept and would provide some type of citizenship for the Palestinians. It's either that or fight forever.
Of course, we can achieve just about anything if we try. Can Catholics and Protestants live in peace, yes, it isn't perfect, can Christians coexist in Lebanon without conflict, yes. But all peaceful resolution requires someone who truely wants peace and doesn't continually look back 2000 years . We don't have those leaders in this region yet but it will happen
Comparison with Christianity's subdivisions is misguided. Islam is very different.
Christianity is almost an opt in / opt out religion, Islam is much more deeply ingrained in its people's thinking and way of life
@@johnduddy2359 cobblers, just watch the behaviour of southern Baptists - all religions have extremist elements but the overwhelming majority are not those people
any empirical evidence of that?
@@wfifa199 there's nothing empirical about religion, history or politics.....
But there are plenty of examples where Islam fails to coexist with other religions, and plenty of examples where sunni & shia Islam fail to coexist
@@wfifa199 of what, you'll need to be a little better at asking questions if you want answers
No such thing as Palestinian state nor people
A LIE will Never be a ‘ solution’.
Never!
The land of Israel/ Judea is Jewish state
Yes, from the Nile to the Euphrates! 😅
Palestine is and never been a country. There has never been a Palestinian people. There are Palestinian Arabs.
Two state or one state, Israel will continue to have an embittered enemy on the other side of a border unless it can concede something dramatic enough to make the majority of Palestinians thankful. Giving them the whole of the West Bank and part of Jerusalem might do it, but anything other, I don't see it. As long as there are substantial Palestinians left in Israel, say 10 or 20 percent, I'd guess surrounding Moslem countries can and will keep a proxy war going.
A two state solution in the geographical region known as 'Palestine' has existed for over 75 years: Jordan and Israel. Mandate Palestine (July 24th, 1922) partitioned 'Palestine' into an Arab division and a Jewish/minority division. The Arab partition became sovereign Jordan in 1946 and the Jewish/minority partition became sovereign Israel in 1948. Jordan is the Arab partition of "Palestine" and Israel is the Jewish/minority partition. (Reference: Mandate Palestine: July 24th, 1922 and the Transjordan Memorandum: Sept. 16th, 1922; ute possidetus juris).
This interview is from 2023, according to the notes. It would be more relevant if the precise date was provided (i.e. was this before or after October 7th?).
I misread 'two state solution to read 'two hate solution' - perhaps my brain is trying to tell me something.
Don't you get it, nobody wants a two state solution.
If the Israelis have a right to veto a "2state solution" for Israel & Palestine, then the Russians should be given the same veto to stop a "2 state solution" for Russia & Ukraine. There's nothing radical about a 2state solution. It's been a feature of modern international conflict resolution since WW1 and has given birth to dozens of states who are now members of the UN.
Difference is, Ukraine has been a sovereign state since 1991. Palestine has never been a sovereign state.
Some can and do, but that doesn't seem to be the majority and is mostly well outside of that part of the world. I'd like to see peaceful coexistence, but I think what very little chance there was of that ended just over one year ago.
Not possible as long as Terrorists are driving hatred amongs the population.
You are including right wing Israeli extremists and terrorists in that statement too I presume ?
Here's the Israel double standard... We expect the Palestinians to give up their land without a fight.
Peter should get together with Alex O'Connor's and work out a two state plan.
Presumably then, Peter Hitchens would posit that the Nazis weren't destroyed after WWII.
There will be no two state solution. Period,
Isn't that the little girl that cried like a child on Alex O'Connors podcast?
In the 80s it was completely open along the west bank, been and drove around there on many occasions. If the forced confiscation and resettlement had not taken place as subsidized by US funds and Israeli organizations, the contradictions would not have increased.
I would ask Peter how the Israel government would expect to get the hostages back had they responded the way he seemed to suggest.
The flaw in his 'coexistence' proposal is that the Israeli view of that and the Palestinian view are quite different. Until such time as either the Palestinian peoples just give up the unequal struggle, or the Israelis agree to genuine equal rights, it's a non-starter as a permanent solution, and neither seems in sight at the moment.
No two state solution.not one state solution either.very sad story.
No, No and NO.
Why should Israel give up some of its country for those maniacs?
Israel needs to increase their borders (to the original, before giving so much back) , and grow idf, get your people back! The technology, money, and weapons keep to yourself 🇮🇱 and build the deadliest wall!! God bless you all 🙏🙏 the west let you down!!!
It’s already been tried Peter!!!
cant see no 2 state now, hamas f#cked that.
It will never happen
He sounds just like his brother when Tucker Carlson interviewed him 20 years ago on the same subject.
would never work. They had a chance back in 1947/48 but the racists in egypt, syria, iraq and jordan vetoed the plan.
The very idea that Israel would ever agree to any deal with those people is pie in the sky. Hate and mutual contempt drives everything.
The wrong brother was taken. 🙁
"They're not corrupt."
😂
_Syria Palaestina_ was the renamed Roman province formerly known as Judaea, following the Roman suppression of the _Bar Kokhba_ Revolt. This was the first appearance of the term fabricated by the Romans, in English, Palestine. At that same time, Jerusalem was renamed _Aelia Capitolina._ It was in this period, around the destruction of the Second Jewish Temple, that the word "Palestine" first appeared. The people who call themselves "Palestinians" are of *Arabic* origin.
There are already 22 Arabs states covering 1/5 of the earth surface areas. How many states do they need more??
1 more.
My grandffather lived in the sinai. Sold his house a month before israel gave it to egypt. He wouldve lost everything. He told me how gaza was the best place for mechanic work
Having a well-established sense of humor is a powerful tool for any one public persona. Peter Hitchens, otherwise (and still) admired by many, must be joking when he claims Hamas is not corrupt (3:40), as levels of personal wealth of various Hamas leaders (for example, Ismail Haniyeh's, in the many millions of privately cached bank accounts) are well known in the Arab world.
The current suggestion re a two state solution is impossible for Israel to deal with. I do not see why these Atabs don't return to Jordan (if Jordan will have them) but the idea of an informal agreement has merit. We shall see but forcing a 2 state solution will not work. Interesting conversation.