It’s very simple, it all came down to money. I was a studio musician in the 70s and the 80s. With the advent of keyboard/synthesisers it was then possible for piano players to play the bass part themselves. I was a bass guitarist. I played bass on Donna Summers first world hit “love to love you baby” in 1975 and I witnessed this new trend happening. Piano players would normally get paid $100 for one title and $50 for any additional overdubs that they played. This is when they started overdubbing the bass parts. of course this changed the sound of pop music and as pop music always has to evolve, the listeners got used to it.
Love to Love You is such a classic! Thank you for your contribution to the canon of great music, my friend. It's sad that the trend in music seems to be going further and further from the human element. From live musicians in the studio back in the day, to hand-programmed sequences played back, to now when we have the ability to create fully automated songs without any human touch at all. Technology can be a great tool, but it will never replace the sweet imperfections of human timing and sensibility.
Came to your channel for info on the Model D and the Pro-1 but stayed for the brilliant insights on music making. Loving it. You are a top class communicator.
@@DistortThePreamp Well I decided to order the Model D. You made a compelling argument for the Pro-1 but I couldn't resist the deep rich tone of the Model-D. The ambient comparison track you did sold it to me. Thank you for the great work. Love your stuff. Even decided to have another listen to Rio yesterday!
Wow! You've excellent presentations skills! Making one to see the entire video without a skip, is a real performance in nowadays culture of fast visioning! Congrats! Keep going the good work.
This is very good to hear! A couple of trolls told me that I was speaking too much and they wanted more demo. But I think the explanation is really critical. Thanks for another kind comment :)
@@DistortThePreamp You have found a tone that I personally find exquisite to listen to. Top notch knowledge, combined with a humble tone. I wonder who hides behind this channel, with such an experience in the field. May I ask?
This! It truly is refreshing to see a video without 20-30 jump cuts and where there are no jump cuts, the engagement is good. There's only a few channels I sub to that flow as well as this.
Oh I’m so pleased you like the video! And that’s not all there is to say about the West End Girls bass - there’s another technique used that will be feature in Part #2 :) Realky appreciate your kind words :)
Didn't they use 2 or 3 synth bass sounds that were all played separately, which is what made it such a time-consuming process? The bass on WEG sounds so lively because it's not just a midi part playing 3 layers, but it's effectively 3 different recordings going in and out of phase with each other such that no single bar on the mixdown is identical to another.
Your video deserves a GRAMMY!!! Not only for such well put together valuable info, but above all for how inspiring it is. Of course there are songs that work well with a more mechanical bass part while others already sound too robotic and a played bass will be the key element to make it groove. You were really inspiring showing everything in between those two possibilities, bringing me back to great productions I love listening to and making. Excellent! Thank you
Thank you sooo much! I’ve just spend another day editing and I’m trying to catch up on comments. I’ve got to find a way of increasing my output without sacrificing the quality…
@@DistortThePreamp I know the feeling 😂 I’ve tried changing video editing software. I’ve tried switching to doing it all live using OBS… but good video making does take a lot of time and energy.
Yeah. I’m very envious of the UA-camrs who do it all live into OBS. I’ve timed how long it took me to do the video I’ve just released and it was basically about 60 hours. And although I could maybe get that down to 50, I couldn’t get it down to much less because there’s just so much production work. I’m not complaining because they’re really wonderful when they’re done, but I would really love to find a way of doing more ‘immediate’ content with almost no editing time as well. I’ll probably try something within a few weeks…
Fantastic! My new favourite UA-cam channel! I've been into synth music and messing around with synths since the 80s. You've really opened my eyes and ears. Thanks. Ive so many questions I'd like to ask you!.
I’m sooo behind on the comments. Been trying to get out the next video which is the Part 2 to this. There’s a long detour into real bass which is genuinely critical to understanding the technique, and it has been tricky to explain it all clearly. These topics are more challenging than they look to discuss in a way that isn’t riddled with jargon and boring for non musicians. I think I’m finally there though…
Golden advice, right here. Thank you. Note length on the bass. So true. I play the bass as an amateur and I've reached the point where I'm trying to improve my "musicality". It boils down to meticulously taking care of the duration and staccato of every single note, even the ones that are in fast progression. Accent comes from this. And the surprising thing is that even with some slow pieces (supposedly easy) it is very challenging to reproduce the feel. One of my "banes" is "Broken Wings" by Mr Mister. I've seen many covers online, and they are all mediocre (including my own playing). I found a video of the real Mr Mister bassist (and singer) playing it live and the difference hit me immediately. The guy just had the right feel in his mind and fingers from the beginning.
Great video. I’m abroad on holiday listening to the EDM playing in the bars and can instantly hear the productions that feature played synth bass. They feel alive. Can’t wait to try it out when I get home.
Oh brilliant! It’s so refreshing when you hear on a track that it was a captured performance. As you say, it ‘feels alive’. That’s a very good way of putting it!
This is a great video! Not only applicable to 80ies synth pop but to contemporary productions of all kinds as well! I’ve subscribed and am looking forward to see where this channel goes next.
That is a very kind thing to say, and exactly what I’m hoping to achieve. My whole goal is ‘production lessons from the past, particularly the 80s, that we can apply to modern productions.’ So thank you for noticing :)
I first learnt to play on a Roland monophonic synth before progressing to piano. Spending endless hours copying early DM and Yazoo tracks to memory, so have always naturally played synth parts in myself and then applied quantize - just need to produce a big hit now! Thanks - a great video!
Amazing! What was the old monophonic? Just FWIW Vince Clarke is a bit crazy about timings. He's very much on the programming side and used to use CV/gate, then switched to Midi during Erasure, then back to CV/gate to make everything tighter again. But about ten years ago I asked him, if because he was using cv/gate again, he now didn't have to move the waveforms (in Logic), and his response was "you always have to move the waveforms". He's like the opposite of Pet Shop Boys who play it in quite sloppily, don't quantise (or never used to) and then sell millions of records. Really appreciate you watching and commenting :-) Just out of interest, what was the Roland mono?
It was a Roland SH-09 which I had in 1982. Yes, I love Vince's 'metronomic' approach and the Pro 1 at that time. Don't Go blew my mind, I was only 10 years old when I started playing and first heard Upstairs at Eric's - I was very lucky to have a synth at that age. My mum worked hard and saved for months, so that I could have one. Great videos - I feel a deep fundamental connection with what you are doing - Hungry Like the Wolf was my arpeggio obsession! It's lovely to know that I'm not the only one who feels this way about that electronic period. Thanks again.
Him “Not” fixing those Pads he played too early is also part of the “Feel” that he’s talking about which gives tracks that “Special Something”. I’m pretty sure he knows that but is another subject for another day. Awesome video so far!🫡🔥🔥🔥
Haha - you’re of course 100% correct. In reality I would never sequence pads. I would just track them live into the daw. And most pads actually need to be played slightly early ;) Aweome comment!
I have been using your tecnic to program a step sequencer on my Elektron model cicles. First, I hit the rhythm and acceleration on the pad, and then I edited the notes. Now it's much easier to create good melodies. Your videos have been incredibly helpful in improving my music.
This is incredibly good to hear! I was actually worried that I didn’t explain the technique well enough :) Thank you so much for watching, and for the comment!
Excellent shout, but that was most definitely sequenced, or arpeggiated at the very least. There's too many notes in that run to be able to pull that off manually with some degree of dexterity 🤔
I love watching this guy, it reminds me of waking up in the early hours of the morning with a hangover watching The Open University on the BBC.... "now, how did we arrive at this point?" :o)
I was in a synth live band in the early 80s. We managed with a a cassette based 4 track mostly to start with. Latterly it went C-Lab Notator on the Atari ST and the rest was pretty much as you described. We realised that some parts had to be humanised mostly the bass, and it was Lately Bass we used as well.
Yes I do. It was a total pain in the neck but I’m using a dark green document camera that’s very close. It means I have to look at the screen from an angle to see what’s going on, but it works!
Martin Rushent was a genius. He was ahead of his time, a brilliant producer, a great programmer, one of the first to get their hands on the newly released Linn Drum LM2. Rushent was a key factor in the sound of The Human League “Dare” album. Interesting stuff. Great channel 👌
Literally 3 seconds after i thought "...but I'm not very good on the keyboard" you said "...but what if you're not a very good keyboard player". New subscriber, here 👌👌👌
Loving your work, Sir! Excellent insight. Refreshingly not using a computer. And the omnipotent Dr Tom supplying visuals... Beautiful! Makes me want to join your band, and bring electronic / TechnoPop music to the masses!
I’m so glad that you think so. I’m very conscious of not falling into the trap of taking oneself too seriously, which can be tricky when you’re actually trying to explain something. Really appreciate you watching and taking the time to comment :)
Great video, and a brilliant breakdown, thank you! I have been watching a lot of Anthony Marinelli's stuff re: Thriller and it seems there's quite a lot of nuance in the synth bass performance by Greg Phillinganes on top of the excellent programming by Anthony that gives it that very human "x", or swing, even on the synths that aren't velocity sensitive. Hard to hear in the moment to moment but really adds up to something special.
That’s right. Marinelli is fantastic on sound design. Those Quincy Jones records are amazing. All the synth bass was sub mixed to a single bass track on tape with only the electric bass being separated so if it weren’t for Marinelli I’m not sure we would know how the layers worked.
Fascinating video. As someone who ate up this music in the 80s and as a fledgling hobbyist musician in my 50s it's really great to see these sorts of insights.
Oh I’m so pleased. I’m trying very hard to make videos that don’t just appeal to semi-pro musicians that make music every day. My goal is to not only explain cool forgotten techniques but also make content that is entertaining to music fans. It’s a tricky needle to thread. Thanks so much for watching, and the comment :)
At my age I create music for my personal pleasure not profit. This video showed me some good take-aways. If I may say the rim-shot was a bit too loud but hey! You put it together in 10 minutes and your sketch sounded great and inspiring. Look forward to the next one.
Thanks Geoff! Yes, the sketches are all a bit rushed and not mixed, and sometimes I feel a bit embarrassed afterwards about the balance, but I think part of what I’m trying to get across is that people should be a bit more, how shall I put this, ‘punk rock’. We all fiddle around in computers but that is *definitely not* very punk rock. So I leave all the mistakes in. Even if, as somebody put it, the rimshot sounds like a ‘crazed woodpecker’ 😂Really appreciate you watching and your comment :)
Spot on , I made great music starting out without midi, then made it all midi then spent 3 years using midi wondering why it all sounded crap. Early Human league ,Garry Numan and Kraftwerk were all played live and that their best stuff. I watched a video on Depeche Mode's Martin Gore, he played a phrase in the studio then said to the engineer and interviewer "just copy that, thats what i do".
Haha! Was that in the old days with Gareth Jones producing? I have a complicated relationship with midi - I use it all the time but it’s sooooooo loose. That’s a subject for another video, but I’ll probably do a poll to see if the subject is too dull 😂 Really appreciate you watching, and the comment.
Agree early Synth pioneers created the sounds and played the sounds, the more technology progressed, the less human interaction and the loss of individuality and nuance.
We really do! Sometimes parts need to be programmed to have that robotic aesthetic, but playing live is an absolute joy. And even robotic parts can be played using a clocked arpeggiator. I’m all about keeping my hands on my gear and, within reason, away from the mouse ;)
I know, right. I think we were stil using an Atari though at some stage we (upgraded, or possibly downgraded) to a Mac. The Atari obviously had fantastic connectivity. We also used Digital Performer but I forgot to put the screenshot in when I mentioned it. Whoops.
Learned Cubase on an Atari ST (set to German language for some reason, which I didn’t speak), making sysex dumps of patches on my dad’s TG500 and playing around with his DX7. For some reason this all was great fun to me during my elementary school years, nowadays with VSTs etc I just can’t find the same spark as back then. I guess limitations really do spark creativity. That Atari clock was rock solid though, in my memory.
@@Wizz15 I got my first Atari in late 86 possibly 87 I think as part of a job lot from a company deep in the red. I was only a kid so those beautiful MIDI ports were a mystery to me sadly. It was Dungeon master all day for me lol.
It really does, right! I was sceptical before I started doing it (again, a few years ago). My two misconceptions were (1) I wouldn’t be able to keep time well enough, and (2) if I could keep time it wouldn’t sound any different. Both were not true - I could easily keep perfect time and yet it still made a difference.
Another excellent video with some great tips. Well done. I notice you have a Roland R8 which I still have. This reminded me so much of the 80s (before DAWS) when my best friend and I used a Roland hardware sequencer to sequence our synths and the R8, then later record everything to a 4 track so we could listen to our songs on cassettes. In the late 80's I purchased an Ensoniq SQ80 workstation which has its own sequencer, (we therefore stopped using the Roland sequencer). We now used the Ensoniq as our controller. It had great internal sounds and triggered a couple of other synths and the R8 via MIDI. Later on we discovered AMIGA 500 computer which was had a DAW sequencer and recorder, with its own internal sounds. We still used the Ensoniq as our controller at that point, but abandoned its internal sequencer. The biggest breakthrough for us however was when the Logic Audio DAW came out. It enabled us to also incorporate an AKAI s3000XL sampler and an Alesis S4 synth sound module into our studio. The sequencing process was so much easier than in the early days (because you could now see which instrument was being triggered on the computer screen). In retrospect however, it was a major headache because our instruments were all multitimbral, and to sequence everything via MIDI meant a lot of programming on the DAW and on the instruments themselves. It was a nighmare in fact. I still dread the thought and would never go back to this way of working. Too many manuals to read and very daunting. These days I use a Magix DAW (since Logic are now with Apple). Magix has its own internal MIDI sounds and MIDI software instruments (as well as a huge sound library of WAV sounds) which are triggered via my old Roland D50. All my old synths are no longer connected via MIDI; they are all played live and connected to my external hardware mixer (I do mixing on Magix; the mixer is merely to connect all my old instruments). The output of the mixer goes directly into my soundcard. Playing my old synths live means that I don't have to mess around with setting up MIDI parameters, incuding which layer will play. I found our old way of working incredibly tedious and cumbersome. I would never go back to it. It took me many years to feel this way but I have finally succumbed. I am impressed that you are able to pull it off. As for my old sampler and sound module, I keep both of them for nostalgic reasons. The only tracks I sequence these days are the ones coming from the software. All my hardware instruments are now played live. This has given my music more feel. Keep up the great work.
This is a very interesting story. I love my R8. Even though they’re samples, the sounds instrument sort of ‘breaths’. I experimented with one of the new cards that meant you could load your own samples but after extensive testing the R8 added so much colour that it was pointless. I have very mixed feelings about daws. On the one hand I love them for tracking, editing, and mixing. On the other, however, I hate them for writing on. I spent quite a lot of years writing in Ableton and it just sapped my creativity. I don’t think it was an Ableton problem - my theory is that staring at a computer screen forces you to use your left brain which pretty much turns off your right brain. Glad you’ve still got a D50. I had one in the late 80s but then grew to hate it. Now I would be really interested in having the rack version. I’m sorry I can’t write you a more extensive reply. A couple of weeks ago I was replying to everyone. Now I’m having to face the reality that those days may be over. I really appreciate you watching, and your comments. Thank you.
@@DistortThePreamp of course I like the videos, and of course I'm subscribed. I was 20 in 1982, played bass guitar in a garage band here in Italy, now I have a small dawless setup of synths, drum machine etc, trying to figure out how to create some sounds of mine, just for fun and personal passion. Really, your video started opening my mind, again thank you so much for this ❤️
Tom Baker, brilliant channel and lesson. I hope your channel blows up and you are able to get the 80's producers you want. I learned a great lesson from this video and instantly subbed! I am a huge 80's synth new wave fan and can't wait to hear more from your channel. I love that your sharing the techniques of bands like the Pet Shop Boys (they and other groups, made me wish I could afford a synclavier back in the day for $100k or more). I really hope you can get into the techniques that Martin Gore used in early Depeche Mode. Especially, "A Broken Frame", as well as Construction Time Again and Some Great Reward. But the list of artists goes on and on. So I will wait for your next video. Thank you.
Oh fantastic! If you play bass you might enjoy the video with Sting on the thumbnail, as well as one I’m working on about fretless recording tricks… So pleased you like the videos! Thank you for watching, and for commenting :)
Some serious food for thought, there's me going audio to cv for sample accurate timing on my analog synths and you throw this wtf into the mix :) I'll give it a go. Good vid.
Yeah. And even with programming I've had my mind totally changed. Check this story out: I wanted to check is there was a difference between sequencing my vintage Roland R8 drum machine using an external sequencer (I was using a Beatstep at the time) and letting it play using its own internal clock. I kinda expected the internal clock to be tighter because MIDI is, well, MIDI. Both of them were all over the place. I then tried my modern RD9 (Behringer's modern 909 clone) running on its internal clock. That was tighter, but not really very tight. Then I tried my Squarp Pyramid which is *supposed to be a sequencer!* and that was also not tight. I don't just mean that the BPM wasn't correct, I mean it constantly drifted. My first reaction was to freak out! The kicks weren't over the snares, nothing was on the grid, the drift from kick to kick was up to 10ms in each direction so that's up to 20ms, maybe even more. I then decided that the best thing to do was put everything on the grid. I should point out that although I've used Ableton for about 15 years I use Pro Tools for recording and editing so I could easiliy move the transients. Anyway, the whole thing started to sound very weak and like computer music. I was probably getting phase issues with the sounds being on top of each other, who knows. But it sounded like computer music, and not in a good way. So now I record everything 'free' and if I need there to be a grid I *align the Pro Tools grid* with the drifting sequencer grid. So my BPM technically drifts. And it all sounds great. And I *guarantee* that you've never listened to one of my pieces on a video and thought 'Gosh, that sequencer timing sounds so sloppy!' So my worldview has changed somewhat. It's all a very confusing journey ;)
Another great vid! 100% right. Much like you , I have been listening to a lot of tracks from the 80s and I've been amazed that a lot are just drums and a bass with the singing overtop. Sure, they'll throw in a melody where needed, but a lot of the verses are just drum and bass.
I remember when I did an analysis of Kids in America a few years ago and realised it was a live band! As a kid I’d always assumed it was programmed synthesisers but it’s all played live at RAK Studio. Even the opening is just a live synth arping a single note. It’s a very, very effective record, and there’s not much to it. Amazing.
So pleased you liked it! I think making music was actually easier when the tech wasn’t quite as good. There were fewer secrets (or lost knowledge) too. DAWs should make things easier but often make things harder.
I remember this coming up when Korg released that Volca FM, where lots of people finally had that Lately bass in an easily accessible form, not having to chase down a TX for a single sound. Except they didn't, because the Volca FM doesn't respond to velocity. I think only a few users really understood the impact this limitation had. Then by the time Korg fixed this with FM 2, everyone had forgot about this limitation and had moved on. But I got one, just for Lately Bass. Maybe one day I'll actually get a real TX. It really does sound nice, doesn't it? Just hearing you play it now is captivating. I've been doing all Moog bass lately but hearing that made me just put the Volca on the desk again. Oh, and the mention of Trevor Horn. His Art of Noise bass lines used to blow my mind.
@@maccagrabme I'm certain this is true, but I think depending on the patch, they are pretty similar, at least when the TZ isn't using some of its other waveforms. But yes, TZ's lately doesn't use a pure sine wave, so audibly different, has more presence. But pretty close.
Get a yamaha FBO1 module , loads cheaper (tho as with all hardware gear prices have crept up ) and you`ll get the exact same "Lately" bass sound ...still have mine after all these years , could`nt give the thing away in the 90`s ..so glad i kept it !
@@alexwestconsulting Either that or forgot to mention there are a few Kontakt libraries that feature "that" sound , if kontakt`s your bag baby 🙂! it`s out there !.....
The timbre control with that bass patch kind of reminds me of why I find the hydrasynth such a game changer. Its the aftertouch. You can get a *hugely* expressive performance out of the multitimbral aftertouch and velocity (both vel down AND vel up, the occasional 'yawn' rap that synth gets are from folks with the module, its the *keyboard* that makes that thing unique). The thing is , without MPE you cant capture the performance over regular midi, so I just wing it with audio out and try and get it right in the performance)
Yeah I think this is right. The other thing that I love about the hydrasynth is that it’s got real knobs but with recall (because of the lights). When I tried one I didn’t find the lights to be quite as exact as a knob with a marker, but that’s nit picking really. I vastly prefer my synths to have a control panel that reflects reality and the Hydrasynth does that. It’s a very good instrument.
Ah, no! That’s actually a track I produced a few years ago called “Radio” that I don’t think ever got released! I didn’t want to get slammed by UA-cam for copyright otherwise I would have used a Chic track, so I used that because the bassist was so good and sounded exactly like Bernard Edwards. This is the modern world - great productions locked on a vault never to see the light of day.
That would be amazing, because I would then get to interview a lot of producers and engineers! Seriously though, I really appreciate your very kind words. It’s comments like yours that keep me motivated…
@@DistortThePreamp You're very very welcome. Continuing our discussion about Blancmange, here they are playing live in 1982 (The Tube, Channel 4) with not much more than a Jupiter 8. My flabber has been well and truly ghasted! ua-cam.com/video/yFWxr6Tqses/v-deo.html
Just discovered your channel and I’m positively loving it! I always thought the bass in West End Girls sounded surprisingly “human” and now I know why.
OMG, I played LatelyBass and SolidBass so much in the 80s, as a Yamaha gearhead. Everything I recorded for a couple years had one of those on it, and always played by hand into the sequencer. I'd do hand-tweaking of notes that were badly off, but avoided quantization as much as possible. Duration and velocity, I almost never messed with.
You are literally saying everything I said in the video! 😂 They’re such great sounds, and they really deserve to be played! Do you still have any Yamaha black boxes? They survive really well…
@@DistortThePreamp The only things I have now are just a tad more recent. I've got an XV5050 I haven't touched in a couple years (but used to love particularly for that bizarre vowel formant filter thing it did so well), and a CS2x with rather yellow keys and a couple broken knobs I still haul out on occasion. Edit: Senility creeping up. The XV5050 is actually a Roland box. Yikes!
@@DistortThePreamp Of course, back in the day, I had a DX-7, and a TX81Z, among others. These days, I've gone more compact. The core of my setup, with a cameo from the CS2X is here: /watch?v=4R2NlmQnjEk
I don’t know how to access this UA-cam video! I’m so sorry to be thick! Do I add UA-cam dot com in front and paste it into a web browser. I can’t seem to get it to work…
Those of us that have been bassists for a few decades know all of this on a deep level. There WERE some SUPERB synth bass players about back then, if you're not familiar with MJ's Thriller album (and if not WHY not) that is a master class in synth bass playing.
Haha! In later videos I’ve covered it up with a fake time machine dial because it turned out that somebody thought that just because it was in shot that’s what they were hearing. The exact comment was something like ‘How can you make an entire video about synth bass and only use the 303?’ In fact the video wasn’t about sound at all, it was about performing rather than programming. And the ‘303’ never got used. So I didn’t reply (because he obviously hadn’t actually watched the video) but it led my to cover the 303 😂
When I played gigs, I played bass live on a Yamaha DX100. It didn't have touch sensivity, but it's 4-operator engine made some great bass sound. Played it standing up with a guitar strap. I wish it did have sensitivity, and aftertouch, like my current Pro 3. Not certain what became of it. I do also have a MODX+ so I can bring up those old patches, layer them, as well as use the touch sensitive keyboard. No aftertouch on the MODX+, though.
Trevor Horn once revealled how he produced bass tracks on legendary ABC production "Lexicon of Love" (and probably others like Frankie Goes To Hollwood): First he programmed the track in the computer and afterwards played the bass parts live along the programmed part. (Trevor Horn - Adventures in modern recording)
Great video! Like your way to show and tell things... Like your use of DrWho, have all nearly all old sessions with german subs on my harddisk, am missing the session with Silvester Mc Coy...
Since I’ll likely not have a chance to attach this to the topic of synth bass again (unique channel this is), I’m dyin to mention my favorite all-time synth bass track: _”Love Is Alive,”_ by Gary Wright. I’m the same age as our host, so I thought it was an electric bass as a kid. The bass track has stayed w me throughout the decades & think it deserves SOME laudable mention here, if nowhere else. It sticks to your ribs. 👌🤟
Thank you! That’s very kind! It would be amazing if the channel got bigger because I would probably be able to get interviews with a lot of the 80s producers which would be really fascinating…
Oh I haven’t tried the DS501 but it looks very good. All Drawmer stuff is great really. Yeah, you’re right about the open secret. I put it down to the fact that when people stopped making music in studios the ‘apprentice’ chain from Producer to Engineer and Tape Op was broken. So nowadays people are learning how to make revirsss by watching UA-cam. Uh huh ;)
The DS501 is nice but the extra transient only works on normal gating, not on ducking, so for ducking I think it's the same as the DS201. I do think it's funny that the whole Internet collectively went the direction of combining compression with ducking. Building up a mix using my ears seems a lot easier when I'm making room for things specifically and not also trying to dial in compression. That's like if you were trying to sculpt something with filters, but you only ever used screeching resonant self-oscillating filters. I don't know I'm more of a DJ, and DJ-ing is just about making room in the mix. And a ducking gate is a very simple way to do that. A gate is just a VCA. You can gate with any synth with an external input. But most of them don't let you invert it and duck things. The DS201 and Aphex 622 are my favorite anti-synths. Like arps punching holes in things. I mean it doesn't have to be a secret. There are probably a few hundred thousand of them around still, because people got them to gate drums and you need a gate for each drum mic. But most of the Drawmers I see under $200 are really beat to hell like it was a rough boat ride from England to Los Angeles in the '80s I guess. Of course you can still buy them new! But you don't hear about them. There was a SynthMania video a few years ago... But I just assumed I was the only one who was more excited about analog mixers and analog gates than I am about analog synths.
Tom Baker, my favourite Doctor and a Human League track too! The Pyramids of MARRS perhaps? I am reminded that Ultravox's Vienna is played and not programmed on a sequencer like a Roland MC-4 as I originally thought. Every so often there would be an article in music magazines about how to make your computer music programming sound more human, by varying the MIDI note velocity (volume) or note length, switch off the quantize and move the start of the note to be off grid to simulate being slightly out of time or hanging off the beat etc., which was such a time consuming ball ache I'd say stuff it, record playing live and comp several tracks into one. Marvellous video sir.
Hi DTP! This is great stuff! As a lyricist and songwriter this is really helpful in how to improve my craft. I’d love to hear your take on Leonard Cohen’s electronic stuff from the 80’s and early 90’s.
Very enjoyable video, and good simple techniques very well explained. However, to know how the bass was done on "West End Girls" all you had to do is watch Top of the Pops, where Chris Lowe plays the bass. Alex Ball's fabulous video on the Emulator 2 also explains the bass is made up of three parts, and sampled into the E2. The layering is probably just as important as the human aspect.
This is true, although obviously TOTP was mimed and I still assumed he was miming a sequenced part (which he did a lot later in their career). I haven’t watched Alex Ball’s video on the Emulator II, but I always thought the layers were done using MIDI on the omni channel?!? Now I’ll have to look it up 😂 You are exactly correct about the layers being as important as the human aspect, and I couldn’t possibly comment what the subject of the second bass video is ;)
So I have access to some PSB multitracks and I’m inclined to be a bit sceptical about the layers being sampled. Firstly it doesn’t make a lot of sense from a production point of view as you want to preserve the layers for mixdown and then blend and ride them independently. Secondly, the sampling would change the sound quite considerably. I’ll continue to check though. Alex Ball is great but not infallible (and I’m sure I’m not either). For example Numan’s Vox Humana was not just the preset.
Just investigated further and the layers were separate. There was an FM synth, a transitional analog synth (though not a Moog), and a pitched sample of a kick drum for extra transient. They were all midi’d together. However a layered version of the sound was prepared in the Emukator for live shows and that might be where Alex got confused. I’ll go into this in detail in the second Synth Bass video :)
It’s very simple, it all came down to money. I was a studio musician in the 70s and the 80s. With the advent of keyboard/synthesisers it was then possible for piano players to play the bass part themselves. I was a bass guitarist. I played bass on Donna Summers first world hit “love to love you baby” in 1975 and I witnessed this new trend happening. Piano players would normally get paid $100 for one title and $50 for any additional overdubs that they played. This is when they started overdubbing the bass parts. of course this changed the sound of pop music and as pop music always has to evolve, the listeners got used to it.
Bass guitarists were not requested anymore with the emergence of synths and synth bass in pop.
Love to Love You is such a classic! Thank you for your contribution to the canon of great music, my friend.
It's sad that the trend in music seems to be going further and further from the human element. From live musicians in the studio back in the day, to hand-programmed sequences played back, to now when we have the ability to create fully automated songs without any human touch at all.
Technology can be a great tool, but it will never replace the sweet imperfections of human timing and sensibility.
@@erik_gerhard tech has ruined music in the near future you will be going to an ai concert with an empty stage how boring can it get 😁.
I'm not worthy,
I'm not worthy
𝄢𝄆😎😎😎😎𝄇
@@christopherfarrington9270 People going to Hatsune Miku and ABBAtar concerts seem to enjoy them a lot though.
Came to your channel for info on the Model D and the Pro-1 but stayed for the brilliant insights on music making. Loving it. You are a top class communicator.
Thank you Kieran! You have both a Model D and Pro-1? Or are you trying to choose?
@@DistortThePreamp Well I decided to order the Model D. You made a compelling argument for the Pro-1 but I couldn't resist the deep rich tone of the Model-D. The ambient comparison track you did sold it to me. Thank you for the great work. Love your stuff. Even decided to have another listen to Rio yesterday!
Teenage electronic musician me would have wept tears of happiness learning this in those heady days of 1986
You and me both 😂
Are you like about 55 now?
Wow! You've excellent presentations skills! Making one to see the entire video without a skip, is a real performance in nowadays culture of fast visioning! Congrats! Keep going the good work.
This is very good to hear! A couple of trolls told me that I was speaking too much and they wanted more demo. But I think the explanation is really critical. Thanks for another kind comment :)
@@DistortThePreamp You have found a tone that I personally find exquisite to listen to. Top notch knowledge, combined with a humble tone. I wonder who hides behind this channel, with such an experience in the field. May I ask?
Perfect presentation.
This! It truly is refreshing to see a video without 20-30 jump cuts and where there are no jump cuts, the engagement is good.
There's only a few channels I sub to that flow as well as this.
I stumbled across your Rio arpeggio video and this one was suggested at the end of it. Amazing stuff, man! I’ve learned so much just from these two.
Exactly the same thing for me. Rio arpeggio video which I very much enjoyed and now this.
Great video. I’ve listened to West End Girls so many times and that’s exactly what makes it so huge. Thanks for sharing your passion!
Oh I’m so pleased you like the video! And that’s not all there is to say about the West End Girls bass - there’s another technique used that will be feature in Part #2 :) Realky appreciate your kind words :)
Didn't they use 2 or 3 synth bass sounds that were all played separately, which is what made it such a time-consuming process? The bass on WEG sounds so lively because it's not just a midi part playing 3 layers, but it's effectively 3 different recordings going in and out of phase with each other such that no single bar on the mixdown is identical to another.
Thanks!
OMG! I am speechless! You cannot possibly know how much this means to me. I am incredibly grateful.
Your videos are great! These subjects are very interesting. The 80's ruled. Keep making them.
Your video deserves a GRAMMY!!! Not only for such well put together valuable info, but above all for how inspiring it is. Of course there are songs that work well with a more mechanical bass part while others already sound too robotic and a played bass will be the key element to make it groove. You were really inspiring showing everything in between those two possibilities, bringing me back to great productions I love listening to and making. Excellent! Thank you
Thank you sooo much! I’ve just spend another day editing and I’m trying to catch up on comments. I’ve got to find a way of increasing my output without sacrificing the quality…
@@DistortThePreamp I know the feeling 😂 I’ve tried changing video editing software. I’ve tried switching to doing it all live using OBS… but good video making does take a lot of time and energy.
Yeah. I’m very envious of the UA-camrs who do it all live into OBS. I’ve timed how long it took me to do the video I’ve just released and it was basically about 60 hours. And although I could maybe get that down to 50, I couldn’t get it down to much less because there’s just so much production work. I’m not complaining because they’re really wonderful when they’re done, but I would really love to find a way of doing more ‘immediate’ content with almost no editing time as well. I’ll probably try something within a few weeks…
@@DistortThePreamp In way, I kinda feel relieved knowing I'm not alone at this! haha
This is so cool.
Riding the tension.
I get it.
I totally get it.
Inject me with humanity.
What a legend .
Exactly! I really appreciate comments like this - makes it all worthwhile!!! 🙏🙏🙏
Fantastic! My new favourite UA-cam channel! I've been into synth music and messing around with synths since the 80s. You've really opened my eyes and ears. Thanks. Ive so many questions I'd like to ask you!.
@@Straitjacket808 Fantastic! I’m so pleased! Email me at the address in the description and I’ll invite you to a discord channel that I’m testing…
3:37 that music was go genious for the big crowd........ looove the sample from your music
I’m sooo behind on the comments. Been trying to get out the next video which is the Part 2 to this. There’s a long detour into real bass which is genuinely critical to understanding the technique, and it has been tricky to explain it all clearly. These topics are more challenging than they look to discuss in a way that isn’t riddled with jargon and boring for non musicians. I think I’m finally there though…
Golden advice, right here. Thank you. Note length on the bass. So true. I play the bass as an amateur and I've reached the point where I'm trying to improve my "musicality". It boils down to meticulously taking care of the duration and staccato of every single note, even the ones that are in fast progression. Accent comes from this. And the surprising thing is that even with some slow pieces (supposedly easy) it is very challenging to reproduce the feel. One of my "banes" is "Broken Wings" by Mr Mister. I've seen many covers online, and they are all mediocre (including my own playing). I found a video of the real Mr Mister bassist (and singer) playing it live and the difference hit me immediately. The guy just had the right feel in his mind and fingers from the beginning.
Exactly!
Great video. I’m abroad on holiday listening to the EDM playing in the bars and can instantly hear the productions that feature played synth bass. They feel alive. Can’t wait to try it out when I get home.
Oh brilliant! It’s so refreshing when you hear on a track that it was a captured performance. As you say, it ‘feels alive’. That’s a very good way of putting it!
This is a great video! Not only applicable to 80ies synth pop but to contemporary productions of all kinds as well! I’ve subscribed and am looking forward to see where this channel goes next.
That is a very kind thing to say, and exactly what I’m hoping to achieve. My whole goal is ‘production lessons from the past, particularly the 80s, that we can apply to modern productions.’ So thank you for noticing :)
I first learnt to play on a Roland monophonic synth before progressing to piano. Spending endless hours copying early DM and Yazoo tracks to memory, so have always naturally played synth parts in myself and then applied quantize - just need to produce a big hit now! Thanks - a great video!
Amazing! What was the old monophonic? Just FWIW Vince Clarke is a bit crazy about timings. He's very much on the programming side and used to use CV/gate, then switched to Midi during Erasure, then back to CV/gate to make everything tighter again. But about ten years ago I asked him, if because he was using cv/gate again, he now didn't have to move the waveforms (in Logic), and his response was "you always have to move the waveforms". He's like the opposite of Pet Shop Boys who play it in quite sloppily, don't quantise (or never used to) and then sell millions of records. Really appreciate you watching and commenting :-) Just out of interest, what was the Roland mono?
It was a Roland SH-09 which I had in 1982. Yes, I love Vince's 'metronomic' approach and the Pro 1 at that time. Don't Go blew my mind, I was only 10 years old when I started playing and first heard Upstairs at Eric's - I was very lucky to have a synth at that age. My mum worked hard and saved for months, so that I could have one. Great videos - I feel a deep fundamental connection with what you are doing - Hungry Like the Wolf was my arpeggio obsession! It's lovely to know that I'm not the only one who feels this way about that electronic period. Thanks again.
6:36 let me stop here and say, before I hear any more… this is video already legendary! Okay.. back to the video
Incredible comment! Comments like this really make it all worthwhile.
Him “Not” fixing those Pads he played too early is also part of the “Feel” that he’s talking about which gives tracks that “Special Something”.
I’m pretty sure he knows that but is another subject for another day. Awesome video so far!🫡🔥🔥🔥
Haha - you’re of course 100% correct. In reality I would never sequence pads. I would just track them live into the daw. And most pads actually need to be played slightly early ;) Aweome comment!
man, Im so happy to find your channel, really like how you deliver things!
Oh thank you so much! That’s so awesome!
I have been using your tecnic to program a step sequencer on my Elektron model cicles. First, I hit the rhythm and acceleration on the pad, and then I edited the notes. Now it's much easier to create good melodies. Your videos have been incredibly helpful in improving my music.
This is incredibly good to hear! I was actually worried that I didn’t explain the technique well enough :) Thank you so much for watching, and for the comment!
Gorgio Moroder, I feel love broke the code. The bass was hipnotic and everything else replied as it answered the question.
I totally agree. Such an amazing track…
100%
He was a game changer for sure!
Excellent shout, but that was most definitely sequenced, or arpeggiated at the very least. There's too many notes in that run to be able to pull that off manually with some degree of dexterity 🤔
@@jasonritchie8475absolutely right arpeggiator
This whole video was one amazing Master Class! The information and demonstration contained herein was invaluable! Thank you so much!
That’s incredibly kind! Thank you!
Currently loving this channel. Lots of single take shots along with pure wisdom. Impressive. Keep them coming.
Thank you so much! The next one is already in production. At the moment the working thumbnail features Laura Palmer…
This was quite amazing - the 'speedrun' was an eye-opener on how great you are with the hardware! Excellent points in how to make a track pop!
Thanks Jules! That’s very kind! Really appreciate you watching, and the awesome comment :)
I love watching this guy, it reminds me of waking up in the early hours of the morning with a hangover watching The Open University on the BBC.... "now, how did we arrive at this point?" :o)
😂😂😂
I was in a synth live band in the early 80s. We managed with a a cassette based 4 track mostly to start with. Latterly it went C-Lab Notator on the Atari ST and the rest was pretty much as you described. We realised that some parts had to be humanised mostly the bass, and it was Lately Bass we used as well.
Oh brilliant. We also started with a 4-track end used Notator at some point on the Atari ST. Those Ataris were really great.
This is A+ stuff man. Love deep dives on single topics like this that use history instead of just "tips and tricks"
May I ask how you go those close ups of your Pyramid screen? Do you have another camera zoomed in on it?
Yes I do. It was a total pain in the neck but I’m using a dark green document camera that’s very close. It means I have to look at the screen from an angle to see what’s going on, but it works!
Martin Rushent was a genius. He was ahead of his time, a brilliant producer, a great programmer, one of the first to get their hands on the newly released Linn Drum LM2. Rushent was a key factor in the sound of The Human League “Dare” album. Interesting stuff. Great channel 👌
Literally 3 seconds after i thought "...but I'm not very good on the keyboard" you said "...but what if you're not a very good keyboard player". New subscriber, here 👌👌👌
Oh I’m so pleased! There’s a real myth that you have to be a maestro to do this stuff and you really don’t :) Thanks for the awesome comment!
I love your channel. Really interesting takes on things and so much good advice!
Thank you so much! Very much appreciate the comment :) 🙏
This is genius!!! I’m loving all of your insight. Great stuff here!
Thank you! Really appreciate this! 🙏🙏🙏
Loving your work, Sir!
Excellent insight.
Refreshingly not using a computer.
And the omnipotent Dr Tom supplying visuals... Beautiful!
Makes me want to join your band, and bring electronic / TechnoPop music to the masses!
So glad you like it! And it really is extremely refreshing not to use a computer :)
Your channel is great... Informative, well paced , snappy presentation style that's also unpretentious
I’m so glad that you think so. I’m very conscious of not falling into the trap of taking oneself too seriously, which can be tricky when you’re actually trying to explain something. Really appreciate you watching and taking the time to comment :)
The video is gold! Another one in my must re-watch playlist!!! TQ Sir!
Great video, and a brilliant breakdown, thank you! I have been watching a lot of Anthony Marinelli's stuff re: Thriller and it seems there's quite a lot of nuance in the synth bass performance by Greg Phillinganes on top of the excellent programming by Anthony that gives it that very human "x", or swing, even on the synths that aren't velocity sensitive. Hard to hear in the moment to moment but really adds up to something special.
That’s right. Marinelli is fantastic on sound design. Those Quincy Jones records are amazing. All the synth bass was sub mixed to a single bass track on tape with only the electric bass being separated so if it weren’t for Marinelli I’m not sure we would know how the layers worked.
Fascinating video. As someone who ate up this music in the 80s and as a fledgling hobbyist musician in my 50s it's really great to see these sorts of insights.
Oh I’m so pleased. I’m trying very hard to make videos that don’t just appeal to semi-pro musicians that make music every day. My goal is to not only explain cool forgotten techniques but also make content that is entertaining to music fans. It’s a tricky needle to thread. Thanks so much for watching, and the comment :)
Great video and excellent point about performance verse programming.
Thank you! 🙏🙏🙏
Been looking forward to this one! Can't wait for the rest of the series.
Thank you so much!
At my age I create music for my personal pleasure not profit. This video showed me some good take-aways. If I may say the rim-shot was a bit too loud but hey! You put it together in 10 minutes and your sketch sounded great and inspiring. Look forward to the next one.
Thanks Geoff! Yes, the sketches are all a bit rushed and not mixed, and sometimes I feel a bit embarrassed afterwards about the balance, but I think part of what I’m trying to get across is that people should be a bit more, how shall I put this, ‘punk rock’. We all fiddle around in computers but that is *definitely not* very punk rock. So I leave all the mistakes in. Even if, as somebody put it, the rimshot sounds like a ‘crazed woodpecker’ 😂Really appreciate you watching and your comment :)
Humility + knowledge + Tom Baker and a great watch = SUBSCRIBED!!!
(And also, GREAT taste in tunes!)
Amazing! Really appreciate you watching, and this very kind comment :)
Same. Thanks for sharing your knowledge. 🙏
It’s absolutely my pleasure!
Spot on , I made great music starting out without midi, then made it all midi then spent 3 years using midi wondering why it all sounded crap. Early Human league ,Garry Numan and Kraftwerk were all played live and that their best stuff. I watched a video on Depeche Mode's Martin Gore, he played a phrase in the studio then said to the engineer and interviewer "just copy that, thats what i do".
Haha! Was that in the old days with Gareth Jones producing? I have a complicated relationship with midi - I use it all the time but it’s sooooooo loose. That’s a subject for another video, but I’ll probably do a poll to see if the subject is too dull 😂 Really appreciate you watching, and the comment.
Agree early Synth pioneers created the sounds and played the sounds, the more technology progressed, the less human interaction and the loss of individuality and nuance.
Excellent point about live playing. We live in a golden age now where you can record live, program, quantize, really mix and match everything.
We really do! Sometimes parts need to be programmed to have that robotic aesthetic, but playing live is an absolute joy. And even robotic parts can be played using a clocked arpeggiator. I’m all about keeping my hands on my gear and, within reason, away from the mouse ;)
Those screenshots of Cubase really take me back...
I know, right. I think we were stil using an Atari though at some stage we (upgraded, or possibly downgraded) to a Mac. The Atari obviously had fantastic connectivity. We also used Digital Performer but I forgot to put the screenshot in when I mentioned it. Whoops.
Learned Cubase on an Atari ST (set to German language for some reason, which I didn’t speak), making sysex dumps of patches on my dad’s TG500 and playing around with his DX7. For some reason this all was great fun to me during my elementary school years, nowadays with VSTs etc I just can’t find the same spark as back then.
I guess limitations really do spark creativity. That Atari clock was rock solid though, in my memory.
@@Wizz15 I got my first Atari in late 86 possibly 87 I think as part of a job lot from a company deep in the red. I was only a kid so those beautiful MIDI ports were a mystery to me sadly. It was Dungeon master all day for me lol.
nicely taught and I love the 80s groove, looking forward to the next part. subscribed.
That is sooo awesome. I really appreciate you watching and taking the time to comment!
Ive been doing this for years with my Mini and Pro 1 - really makes a difference!!
It really does, right! I was sceptical before I started doing it (again, a few years ago). My two misconceptions were (1) I wouldn’t be able to keep time well enough, and (2) if I could keep time it wouldn’t sound any different. Both were not true - I could easily keep perfect time and yet it still made a difference.
Another excellent video with some great tips. Well done. I notice you have a Roland R8 which I still have. This reminded me so much of the 80s (before DAWS) when my best friend and I used a Roland hardware sequencer to sequence our synths and the R8, then later record everything to a 4 track so we could listen to our songs on cassettes. In the late 80's I purchased an Ensoniq SQ80 workstation which has its own sequencer, (we therefore stopped using the Roland sequencer). We now used the Ensoniq as our controller. It had great internal sounds and triggered a couple of other synths and the R8 via MIDI. Later on we discovered AMIGA 500 computer which was had a DAW sequencer and recorder, with its own internal sounds. We still used the Ensoniq as our controller at that point, but abandoned its internal sequencer. The biggest breakthrough for us however was when the Logic Audio DAW came out. It enabled us to also incorporate an AKAI s3000XL sampler and an Alesis S4 synth sound module into our studio. The sequencing process was so much easier than in the early days (because you could now see which instrument was being triggered on the computer screen). In retrospect however, it was a major headache because our instruments were all multitimbral, and to sequence everything via MIDI meant a lot of programming on the DAW and on the instruments themselves. It was a nighmare in fact. I still dread the thought and would never go back to this way of working. Too many manuals to read and very daunting. These days I use a Magix DAW (since Logic are now with Apple). Magix has its own internal MIDI sounds and MIDI software instruments (as well as a huge sound library of WAV sounds) which are triggered via my old Roland D50. All my old synths are no longer connected via MIDI; they are all played live and connected to my external hardware mixer (I do mixing on Magix; the mixer is merely to connect all my old instruments). The output of the mixer goes directly into my soundcard. Playing my old synths live means that I don't have to mess around with setting up MIDI parameters, incuding which layer will play. I found our old way of working incredibly tedious and cumbersome. I would never go back to it. It took me many years to feel this way but I have finally succumbed. I am impressed that you are able to pull it off. As for my old sampler and sound module, I keep both of them for nostalgic reasons. The only tracks I sequence these days are the ones coming from the software. All my hardware instruments are now played live. This has given my music more feel. Keep up the great work.
This is a very interesting story. I love my R8. Even though they’re samples, the sounds instrument sort of ‘breaths’. I experimented with one of the new cards that meant you could load your own samples but after extensive testing the R8 added so much colour that it was pointless. I have very mixed feelings about daws. On the one hand I love them for tracking, editing, and mixing. On the other, however, I hate them for writing on. I spent quite a lot of years writing in Ableton and it just sapped my creativity. I don’t think it was an Ableton problem - my theory is that staring at a computer screen forces you to use your left brain which pretty much turns off your right brain. Glad you’ve still got a D50. I had one in the late 80s but then grew to hate it. Now I would be really interested in having the rack version. I’m sorry I can’t write you a more extensive reply. A couple of weeks ago I was replying to everyone. Now I’m having to face the reality that those days may be over. I really appreciate you watching, and your comments. Thank you.
@@DistortThePreamp Thank you so much for responding! Look forward to more videos!
Your 80's demo reminds me of Swing Out Sister. Thanks.....I will be playing my basslines from now on.
Hahaha! You will not regret playing your bass lines. It’s the choice of champions!
Heck this channel is pure gold for me. Really, really thank you ❤
That’s amazing to hear! So pleased you like the videos :) Really appreciate you watching and commenting!
@@DistortThePreamp of course I like the videos, and of course I'm subscribed. I was 20 in 1982, played bass guitar in a garage band here in Italy, now I have a small dawless setup of synths, drum machine etc, trying to figure out how to create some sounds of mine, just for fun and personal passion. Really, your video started opening my mind, again thank you so much for this ❤️
@@DistortThePreamp ...and yes, I still LOVE the 80's New Wave a lot ❤️❤️❤️
Tom Baker, brilliant channel and lesson. I hope your channel blows up and you are able to get the 80's producers you want. I learned a great lesson from this video and instantly subbed! I am a huge 80's synth new wave fan and can't wait to hear more from your channel. I love that your sharing the techniques of bands like the Pet Shop Boys (they and other groups, made me wish I could afford a synclavier back in the day for $100k or more). I really hope you can get into the techniques that Martin Gore used in early Depeche Mode. Especially, "A Broken Frame", as well as Construction Time Again and Some Great Reward. But the list of artists goes on and on. So I will wait for your next video. Thank you.
Really appreciate this comment of support. I actually have my first interview lined up so 🤞
Very nice presentation, digging your channel. As a kid who learned to play bass guitar in the 80s this is pretty cool.
Oh fantastic! If you play bass you might enjoy the video with Sting on the thumbnail, as well as one I’m working on about fretless recording tricks… So pleased you like the videos! Thank you for watching, and for commenting :)
@@DistortThePreamp It's on my "watch later" list already.
Wonderful to hear!
Some serious food for thought, there's me going audio to cv for sample accurate timing on my analog synths and you throw this wtf into the mix :) I'll give it a go. Good vid.
Yeah. And even with programming I've had my mind totally changed. Check this story out: I wanted to check is there was a difference between sequencing my vintage Roland R8 drum machine using an external sequencer (I was using a Beatstep at the time) and letting it play using its own internal clock. I kinda expected the internal clock to be tighter because MIDI is, well, MIDI. Both of them were all over the place. I then tried my modern RD9 (Behringer's modern 909 clone) running on its internal clock. That was tighter, but not really very tight. Then I tried my Squarp Pyramid which is *supposed to be a sequencer!* and that was also not tight. I don't just mean that the BPM wasn't correct, I mean it constantly drifted. My first reaction was to freak out! The kicks weren't over the snares, nothing was on the grid, the drift from kick to kick was up to 10ms in each direction so that's up to 20ms, maybe even more. I then decided that the best thing to do was put everything on the grid. I should point out that although I've used Ableton for about 15 years I use Pro Tools for recording and editing so I could easiliy move the transients. Anyway, the whole thing started to sound very weak and like computer music. I was probably getting phase issues with the sounds being on top of each other, who knows. But it sounded like computer music, and not in a good way. So now I record everything 'free' and if I need there to be a grid I *align the Pro Tools grid* with the drifting sequencer grid. So my BPM technically drifts. And it all sounds great. And I *guarantee* that you've never listened to one of my pieces on a video and thought 'Gosh, that sequencer timing sounds so sloppy!' So my worldview has changed somewhat. It's all a very confusing journey ;)
Excellent video. Extremely informative. Thank you.
Thank you! Very glad you enjoyed it :)
One of if not the best such video I've ever seen, what a groove!
That’s very kind! Thank you so much! Really, really appreciate you watching, and this comment :)
Another great vid! 100% right. Much like you , I have been listening to a lot of tracks from the 80s and I've been amazed that a lot are just drums and a bass with the singing overtop. Sure, they'll throw in a melody where needed, but a lot of the verses are just drum and bass.
I remember when I did an analysis of Kids in America a few years ago and realised it was a live band! As a kid I’d always assumed it was programmed synthesisers but it’s all played live at RAK Studio. Even the opening is just a live synth arping a single note. It’s a very, very effective record, and there’s not much to it. Amazing.
Very useful and informative. I really had no idea...
So pleased you liked it! I think making music was actually easier when the tech wasn’t quite as good. There were fewer secrets (or lost knowledge) too. DAWs should make things easier but often make things harder.
Still the greatest doctor!
100%. Although I did like David Tennant…
I remember this coming up when Korg released that Volca FM, where lots of people finally had that Lately bass in an easily accessible form, not having to chase down a TX for a single sound. Except they didn't, because the Volca FM doesn't respond to velocity. I think only a few users really understood the impact this limitation had. Then by the time Korg fixed this with FM 2, everyone had forgot about this limitation and had moved on. But I got one, just for Lately Bass. Maybe one day I'll actually get a real TX. It really does sound nice, doesn't it? Just hearing you play it now is captivating. I've been doing all Moog bass lately but hearing that made me just put the Volca on the desk again. Oh, and the mention of Trevor Horn. His Art of Noise bass lines used to blow my mind.
The dx7 doesn't sound like the tx81z when it comes to bass, it's not got the same weight or grit.
@@maccagrabme I'm certain this is true, but I think depending on the patch, they are pretty similar, at least when the TZ isn't using some of its other waveforms. But yes, TZ's lately doesn't use a pure sine wave, so audibly different, has more presence. But pretty close.
Get a yamaha FBO1 module , loads cheaper (tho as with all hardware gear prices have crept up ) and you`ll get the exact same "Lately" bass sound ...still have mine after all these years , could`nt give the thing away in the 90`s ..so glad i kept it !
@@2000stephenellis yeah ii was just listening to one of those.
@@alexwestconsulting Either that or forgot to mention there are a few Kontakt libraries that feature "that" sound , if kontakt`s your bag baby 🙂! it`s out there !.....
This channel is a gem!
Thank you so much!!!
Have really enjoyed all the videos I’ve watched on this channel so far. Excellent presentation, info and insights
Fun and educational. Looking forward to the next one!
Thank you! That is very kind, and awesome to hear
@DIstortthePreamp, your line at 20:16-20:30. That was hysterical. The best.
Hahaha! I had to look this up 😂😂 I think I had somebody asking me where they could access the course 😂😂
Great quote from Martin, Still sounds great today
He was such a legend. Badly missed. Such an amazing producer.
The timbre control with that bass patch kind of reminds me of why I find the hydrasynth such a game changer. Its the aftertouch. You can get a *hugely* expressive performance out of the multitimbral aftertouch and velocity (both vel down AND vel up, the occasional 'yawn' rap that synth gets are from folks with the module, its the *keyboard* that makes that thing unique). The thing is , without MPE you cant capture the performance over regular midi, so I just wing it with audio out and try and get it right in the performance)
Yeah I think this is right. The other thing that I love about the hydrasynth is that it’s got real knobs but with recall (because of the lights). When I tried one I didn’t find the lights to be quite as exact as a knob with a marker, but that’s nit picking really. I vastly prefer my synths to have a control panel that reflects reality and the Hydrasynth does that. It’s a very good instrument.
The background-bass-track, that sound like taken from Grover Washingtons "Just the two of us"... at 7:50... Am i right?
Ah, no! That’s actually a track I produced a few years ago called “Radio” that I don’t think ever got released! I didn’t want to get slammed by UA-cam for copyright otherwise I would have used a Chic track, so I used that because the bassist was so good and sounded exactly like Bernard Edwards. This is the modern world - great productions locked on a vault never to see the light of day.
brilliant stuff again
Thank you so much! 🙏
Thank you for sharing all these gems!
P.S. I love your Microphone "Who Dis". 😆Tom Baker best Dr. ever!
Haha - thanks for noticing the mic flag :) It’s different every time, and I think you’re the only one that got the ‘Whi’ joke!!!! 😂
Good video! Thanks. I really appreciate the clear but also deep dive into the subject. Subscribed. Cheer.s
Thank you! Very much appreciate you watching and the kind words :)
This channel is going to absolutely explode! 💥🏆
That would be amazing, because I would then get to interview a lot of producers and engineers! Seriously though, I really appreciate your very kind words. It’s comments like yours that keep me motivated…
@@DistortThePreamp You're very very welcome. Continuing our discussion about Blancmange, here they are playing live in 1982 (The Tube, Channel 4) with not much more than a Jupiter 8. My flabber has been well and truly ghasted!
ua-cam.com/video/yFWxr6Tqses/v-deo.html
So don’t tell anyone but I’m talking to Mike Howlett next week. Shhhh. ;)
Love it when you are talking about velocity in bass and background track comes with slaps.
Thank you soo much for this video. I learned a lot and got inspired too! 👍👍👍
Mate, your videos are amazing! Keep doing great work!
I'm happy to join your channel to learn from you.
Just discovered your channel and I’m positively loving it! I always thought the bass in West End Girls sounded surprisingly “human” and now I know why.
Fantastic! Once you try playing synth bass lines…
@@DistortThePreamp I also play bass guitar so this makes perfect sense to me. Your channel is bound to blow up, great stuff!
OMG, I played LatelyBass and SolidBass so much in the 80s, as a Yamaha gearhead. Everything I recorded for a couple years had one of those on it, and always played by hand into the sequencer. I'd do hand-tweaking of notes that were badly off, but avoided quantization as much as possible. Duration and velocity, I almost never messed with.
You are literally saying everything I said in the video! 😂 They’re such great sounds, and they really deserve to be played! Do you still have any Yamaha black boxes? They survive really well…
@@DistortThePreamp The only things I have now are just a tad more recent. I've got an XV5050 I haven't touched in a couple years (but used to love particularly for that bizarre vowel formant filter thing it did so well), and a CS2x with rather yellow keys and a couple broken knobs I still haul out on occasion.
Edit: Senility creeping up. The XV5050 is actually a Roland box. Yikes!
@@DistortThePreamp Of course, back in the day, I had a DX-7, and a TX81Z, among others. These days, I've gone more compact. The core of my setup, with a cameo from the CS2X is here: /watch?v=4R2NlmQnjEk
I don’t know how to access this UA-cam video! I’m so sorry to be thick! Do I add UA-cam dot com in front and paste it into a web browser. I can’t seem to get it to work…
Awesome 80s synth-trivia videos 👍
Haha - that’s about right!
Please upload that full demo tape ❤ I actually liked that!!
Those of us that have been bassists for a few decades know all of this on a deep level.
There WERE some SUPERB synth bass players about back then, if you're not familiar with MJ's Thriller album (and if not WHY not) that is a master class in synth bass playing.
@@groovedealerfeaturing-ashl6476 Exactly!!!
11:45 - I like the TD-3 with masking tape 303 label😄
Haha! In later videos I’ve covered it up with a fake time machine dial because it turned out that somebody thought that just because it was in shot that’s what they were hearing. The exact comment was something like ‘How can you make an entire video about synth bass and only use the 303?’ In fact the video wasn’t about sound at all, it was about performing rather than programming. And the ‘303’ never got used. So I didn’t reply (because he obviously hadn’t actually watched the video) but it led my to cover the 303 😂
Utterly absorbing. Instant subscribe from me!
Thank you so much! Very much appreciated :)
Absolute GOLD.
Thank you so much!
When I played gigs, I played bass live on a Yamaha DX100. It didn't have touch sensivity, but it's 4-operator engine made some great bass sound. Played it standing up with a guitar strap. I wish it did have sensitivity, and aftertouch, like my current Pro 3. Not certain what became of it. I do also have a MODX+ so I can bring up those old patches, layer them, as well as use the touch sensitive keyboard. No aftertouch on the MODX+, though.
Very cool. The DX100 had a really great bass patch preset, right? Luckily the price isn't through the roof either...
Liked and subbed! That was an absolute treat to listen to 😎
Oh amazing! That’s incredibly kind :)
I am incredibly greatfull for all the information you just shaired.
That’s a very kind thing to say :) Really appreciate you watching and commenting :)
Trevor Horn once revealled how he produced bass tracks on legendary ABC production "Lexicon of Love" (and probably others like Frankie Goes To Hollwood):
First he programmed the track in the computer and afterwards played the bass parts live along the programmed part. (Trevor Horn - Adventures in modern recording)
It’s a fantastic book :)
I love this channel and the presentation style!
Thank you!
This guy knows what he's doing. Bought his set for Argon8, so much value for the money!
🙂
I was just about to suggest the ‘use a single note’ then adjust the pitches. Gives great results.
Haha! Great minds… ;)
Great video! Like your way to show and tell things...
Like your use of DrWho, have all nearly all old sessions with german subs on my harddisk, am missing the session with Silvester Mc Coy...
Oh amazing! The old Dr Who episodes with Tom Baker?
great tutorials thanks
Thank you! Really appreciate you watching, and the comment :)
absolutely fantastic!
That’s very kind! So glad you enjoyed it! Really appreciate you watching, and the comment :)
Thank you for the class!
🙂
amazing tips
Thanks Paul! Really appreciate you watching, and the kind comment :)
Since I’ll likely not have a chance to attach this to the topic of synth bass again (unique channel this is), I’m dyin to mention my favorite all-time synth bass track:
_”Love Is Alive,”_ by Gary Wright. I’m the same age as our host, so I thought it was an electric bass as a kid. The bass track has stayed w me throughout the decades & think it deserves SOME laudable mention here, if nowhere else. It sticks to your ribs. 👌🤟
❤ your channel! Thank you brother.
🙏
Love the cover page graphic (?)…I don’t know what to call it haha. This channel is going places! 🎉
Thank you! That’s very kind! It would be amazing if the channel got bigger because I would probably be able to get interviews with a lot of the 80s producers which would be really fascinating…
Thanks for uploading this.. It makes a lot of sense, and really well explained. 👍🏻
Thank you! That’s very kind, and very much appreciated!
Just discovered and loving this channel.
This makes me very happy :)
This pad gating led me to pick up a DS501 to play with, it feels like an open secret that everyone else is trying to use comps with SC to do.
Oh I haven’t tried the DS501 but it looks very good. All Drawmer stuff is great really. Yeah, you’re right about the open secret. I put it down to the fact that when people stopped making music in studios the ‘apprentice’ chain from Producer to Engineer and Tape Op was broken. So nowadays people are learning how to make revirsss by watching UA-cam. Uh huh ;)
The DS501 is nice but the extra transient only works on normal gating, not on ducking, so for ducking I think it's the same as the DS201. I do think it's funny that the whole Internet collectively went the direction of combining compression with ducking. Building up a mix using my ears seems a lot easier when I'm making room for things specifically and not also trying to dial in compression. That's like if you were trying to sculpt something with filters, but you only ever used screeching resonant self-oscillating filters. I don't know I'm more of a DJ, and DJ-ing is just about making room in the mix. And a ducking gate is a very simple way to do that. A gate is just a VCA. You can gate with any synth with an external input. But most of them don't let you invert it and duck things. The DS201 and Aphex 622 are my favorite anti-synths. Like arps punching holes in things. I mean it doesn't have to be a secret. There are probably a few hundred thousand of them around still, because people got them to gate drums and you need a gate for each drum mic. But most of the Drawmers I see under $200 are really beat to hell like it was a rough boat ride from England to Los Angeles in the '80s I guess. Of course you can still buy them new! But you don't hear about them. There was a SynthMania video a few years ago... But I just assumed I was the only one who was more excited about analog mixers and analog gates than I am about analog synths.
Tom Baker, my favourite Doctor and a Human League track too! The Pyramids of MARRS perhaps? I am reminded that Ultravox's Vienna is played and not programmed on a sequencer like a Roland MC-4 as I originally thought. Every so often there would be an article in music magazines about how to make your computer music programming sound more human, by varying the MIDI note velocity (volume) or note length, switch off the quantize and move the start of the note to be off grid to simulate being slightly out of time or hanging off the beat etc., which was such a time consuming ball ache I'd say stuff it, record playing live and comp several tracks into one. Marvellous video sir.
Great video, subscribed and will be watching the rest of your content 👌
Hi DTP! This is great stuff! As a lyricist and songwriter this is really helpful in how to improve my craft. I’d love to hear your take on Leonard Cohen’s electronic stuff from the 80’s and early 90’s.
Oh that’s an interesting question! You mean First We Take Manhattan etc?
Very enjoyable video, and good simple techniques very well explained. However, to know how the bass was done on "West End Girls" all you had to do is watch Top of the Pops, where Chris Lowe plays the bass. Alex Ball's fabulous video on the Emulator 2 also explains the bass is made up of three parts, and sampled into the E2. The layering is probably just as important as the human aspect.
This is true, although obviously TOTP was mimed and I still assumed he was miming a sequenced part (which he did a lot later in their career). I haven’t watched Alex Ball’s video on the Emulator II, but I always thought the layers were done using MIDI on the omni channel?!? Now I’ll have to look it up 😂 You are exactly correct about the layers being as important as the human aspect, and I couldn’t possibly comment what the subject of the second bass video is ;)
So I have access to some PSB multitracks and I’m inclined to be a bit sceptical about the layers being sampled. Firstly it doesn’t make a lot of sense from a production point of view as you want to preserve the layers for mixdown and then blend and ride them independently. Secondly, the sampling would change the sound quite considerably. I’ll continue to check though. Alex Ball is great but not infallible (and I’m sure I’m not either). For example Numan’s Vox Humana was not just the preset.
Just investigated further and the layers were separate. There was an FM synth, a transitional analog synth (though not a Moog), and a pitched sample of a kick drum for extra transient. They were all midi’d together. However a layered version of the sound was prepared in the Emukator for live shows and that might be where Alex got confused. I’ll go into this in detail in the second Synth Bass video :)