It really bothers me how someone with a PhD described the Dark Ages inaccurately. Contrary to popular beliefs, it was NOT a chaotic or backwards time. There were lots of advances including agriculture, government, economy, mathematics, technology, medicine, education, and so on. It was called the Dark Ages because much of the written records from after the fall of the Roman empire was lost as well as the bias from a Roman-centric mindset.
It's a bit more complicated than that. There were definitely significant advancements made but only in ways approved by religious leaders at the time. Anything that contradicted religious dogma would have been censured and declared heresy. So, in a way, while Daniel may have described the dark ages inaccurately, he was right about how we would be colonizing space if they didn't happen, because the very fundamental concepts that would have allowed for that would have been rejected - the idea that there could even be other worlds out there to colonize in the first place was anathema to medieval Christians. Of course, that's just the European dark ages. There hasn't actually been an incident of civilization collapsing worldwide, just localized collapses in the wake of decaying empires at different points in time.
@@VestedUTuber Are you saying, that we aren't colonozing the space, because the church didn't wanted us to, 800 years ago? Because if you are: The time frame in which the dark ages happened and the one in which we started modernising transport systems are fundemantely different. We started using steampowered engines long after the end of the dark ages, but not because the church didn't want to. There just was no incentive for us to change. And without even having working steam engines there was just no way to even dream of space travel.
@@hansmuller1267 I'm saying that the critical fields of research necessary to make those developments would have been censured by the church as heresy, regardless of whether there was incentive to pursue such research or not. Any sort of questioning of the established cosmology would have been declared heresy and any sort of self-propelled vehicle would be met with suspicion and distrust at best and outright fear and hatred at worst. Additionally, the "powers that be were divinely created that way" mindset would have been one of the main factors for why there was no incentive to travel. A major philosophy of Christianity in general is effectively complacency with one's life situation, the self-justification of personal suffering and the expectation of paradise after death if you put up with the shit life throws at you. Some of the main incentives to travel are the promises of fortune and a better life elsewhere, but if the dominant philosophy is that such things don't matter then those incentives no longer apply. And with people not settling elsewhere, there was no demand for infrastructure beyond that which could serve a single town or city, or maybe at most a small cluster of towns or cities.
@@VestedUTuber yea exactly whatever advances were made until science got out from underneath religious thumbs were overshadowed for most of this time span. I think Daniel is right in this statement.
He would have been more correct to say that if all Man's achievements were consolidated and preserved after being shared we would be light years ahead as a race. We have not been focused on educational advancement as a race as there has been WAY to many other agenda's that have been in play.
Well, you know, you have to find a reason to live for today instead of the tomorrow you will never get to see anyway. A lot of people find their reason in someone else's backyard.
we've got 200k+ years of completely undocumented history and advancement that was lost to us at the end of the last ice age. most of what survived that cataclysm burned in the library of Alexandria
It's funny how a PhD on linguistics could say that when maybe half of his research material was preserved in monasteries, specially on later seasons where thar Merlin plot was based on ancient British legends.
Preserved is not the same as being advanced (I don't actually know what happened during the dark ages, just pointing out the difference between what you wrote and what was said in the video). Also, the Merlin plot revolved around one of the last surviving members of the most technologically advanced civilization ever, not around any advancements made by the peoples of earth
I would argue both the fall of Rome and necessity affected human development. The Dark Ages were a period of recovery where survival itself sparked change and technology, particularly as it applied to warfare were the most affected. The show as others have suggested oversimplified this. It is a common mistake if you don't understand the Church actually saved and protected knowledge from Ancient Rome and did sponsor considerably development in technology and the arts. This again was done for different reasons. It wouldn't be until the early 1900's that people started seriously contemplate living on other worlds and it wasn't until Kennedy that a government really sponsored it
Emperor of Cartoons That is the thesis which I find false. Between 400 and 1200. Art and culture evolved, new tools and methods were discovered in agriculture, and in navigation. The first universities were founded. Paper was introduced, minuscules (low letter case) were invented, long standing laws were written... etc. No. I don't belive the 'dark ages' were any darker then the present days.
+Benjámin Kurilla (bbenjoe) In terms of scientific advancement, there still wasn't much being done. Sure, there was still the technological innovation you mentioned occurring, but this was being driven by economics and warfare, not any new scientific discoveries. Our understandings of biology and physics sat still for the height of the Roman Empire.
@@CRocketSlim wait what? Physics did not advance during the middle age? Thats wrong as fuck you know? Optics, math and a lot of domain progressed. Renaissance is a fairy tale, its only true for the art and culture, not science or any other advancement. The modern era was built upon the development of the middle age and mist of the "barbaric" fact from the middle age come in reality from the modern era. I still can't believe that we can read such bullshit when historians made a hell of a work to reestablish the truth. Everything you say is the biased image the 19century historians made.
It's always unfortunate when the writers of shows like this like this don't bother to check whether what they're saying is true or not. This character is supposed to be a historian, correct? In the early 1900s historians began to realize that the term "Dark Ages" was a misnomer. It was coined in the Renaissance with a clear agenda, namely to badmouth an entire section of history. The term is associated with connotations and so-called facts about the time, such as those Dr. Jackson mentions here, that are long-standing results of propaganda. The idea of rationality and higher learning saw a steady _increase_ as the so called "Dark Ages" progressed. The Catholic Church has long considered scientific progress and research - then called "natural philosophy" - to be a _good thing_. And since the Church was in power at that time, it did what it could. Mass copying of older works and tomes was conducted by religious authorities. Philosophy and the foundations of schools were supported heavily by the church. Codified law and its related philosophy developed throughout Europe. Technical knowledge and practices improved. Metallurgy, engineering, etc developed as the "Dark Ages" went on. The Middle Ages were a growing period, and so subject to growing pains. However, advancement _did_ happen. Most any hindrance of progress stemmed from the barbaric and ruthless lords in the early ages, who went burning and pillaging and conquering their way through the more "civilized" parts of the former empire. Most of the practices and prejudices we typically ascribe to "Dark Ages Europe" really come from the oh-so-enlightened 15-1600s, the _end_ of this time period.
The real problem was Catholic only wanted their priest to learn how to write. The biggest problem was if you were smart you didn't have kids in the dark ages. Second the most pressing issue was the need to defend against incursion.
This. I can't for the life of me figure out why this myth is still alive. Just look at something obvious like armor during the middle ages. It's such an obvious fact that technology very much didn't stop progressing during the "dark ages". Although I suppose you could argue that if Rome had survived the ideas of Greek, Egyptian and Mesopotanian philosophy and scientific advancedment would've taken a more active role. Perhaps something like this is to expain the Tollan advancement?
The proble is he's wrong even if he's right. Persian and Indo-Arabic science played a major role in covering the intellectual gaps. There are about 50 things wrong with is argument even though it has some truth to it. He's reasoning like a scientist and not like an actual historical expert.
Not to mention that when speaking of the dark ages one is usually refering to the European countries under the catholic church. What were the Asian countries (which had yet to be touched by Catholicism) doing then? Ya know, besides inventing gunpowder, silk, and creating a culture and country that has stood for over a thousand years?
My pet peeve is people confidently talking about the 'Dark Ages' when they clearly don't understand what the term means and also don't know anything about medieval history!
I hope that you've updated your opinion within the last year. Maybe you've read a few books on the subject. While Wikipedia is not in itself a scholarly source, it is a good amalgamator of current academic and social conclusions on issues and subjects. So here, in case you haven't looked into the issue a little more, is a place to start. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catholic_Church_and_science
Totally historically inaccurate. The early scientists in Western society were overwhelmingly priests and monks, since these tended to be the most educated men of their times. The Dark Ages happened for one reason only---the fall of the Roman Empire, which led to the destabilization of all of Western Europe. In the East, the Byzantine Empire remained a center of culture, civilization, and science, although it was fairly static for hundreds of years, as was the Ottoman Empire which opposed it. In Europe, Vikings and other barbarian cultures that had long been suppressed by Rome instituted a period of raiding and warfare that lasted hundreds of years. The ancient kingdoms that arose and would eventually become France, England and Spain were barely able to survive, let alone prosper. (And these raiders, like the Norse, were pagan, not Christian. In fact, many abbies and monasteries were the targets of raids during this period.) At one point the Danes invaded England and held half the country. The Scots and Picts held the north, and the Irish would also occasionally invade. Given all that, it's hardly a surprise that science didn't prosper. Much of what the Romans and other ancient cultures had learned was lost forever. Other knowledge was only kept alive by Christian monks and nobles who valued learning. And in the Renaissance many Christians advanced the knowledge of science. Kepler, Newton, Copernicus, and Galileo were all Christians.
If this were to come from O'Neill or Sam, it would have been excusable, since history isn't their specialty. But Daniel is an archaeologist, and while he's the one with the crazy ancient aliens theory, he should at least some basic knowledge of history, where he would have learnt that the Dung Ages was just a myth. This gets a bit jarring later, when we learn that the base of the Tollan technology is an alien metal/element called Trinium, which doesn't exist on Earth and only on some alien planets, which pretty much defeats the whole "if it weren't for the Dung Ages" bullshit myth, since it was alien macguffin that allowed the Tollan to reach their current level of technology, and not some religious superstition conspiracy. A season later they find a planet on a similar technological level with the Tollans that were using Naquadah, the same superelement used in Stargates and by countless other species, as power source for their technology. And then later in the series, when Earth finally manages to find and mine sufficient trinium and naquadah, they're basically starting to build entire friggin' starships. So much for religion holding us back, eh.
The dark ages are not as serious as some people say, there was still some sort of technological advance/innovation, but it is true that it was a HUGE setback for humanity compared to other ages.
@@Mairesist Nope. The whole "religion held us back from building spaceships" is just post-Renaissance bullshit. The fall of the (Western) Roman Empire was inevitable, as invasions, a severe labor deficit, a decrease in the use of slavery, overspending hastened its demise. The rise of Christianity wasn't able to stop it, instead it merely soften the fall, since as it spread on the entire European continent, many very different cultures were able to have a common denominator, which helped politics to a degree. But even with the loss of the RE, advancements in technology still continued. Metallurgy became much better, and thus new inventions appeared: the horseshoe, the heavy plow, as well as other inventions such as the hourglass and wind/water mills. Metal manufacturing became cheaper, compared to the Roman period. And this is only in Europe. India, China and the Muslim world also developed new technologies and many also reached Europe fairly early. However, none could have leaped towards an Industrial revolution in short term, because human labor was still cheap, metallurgy while better still wasn't good enough to build long-lasting machines, and since no one had coal that was cheap enough to be extracted and used in large scale, not to mention the lack of a proper mercantile class (which only appeared during the Renaissance), meant there was no money to be made from a proto-industrial revolution. As such it took centuries of social reforms and changes before the proper foundation for the industrial revolution became reality. Some steps just can't be jumped that easily.
@@Mairesist Then there's also the issue of "Religion banning science" which is also nonsense, since a)Science as we know it did not exist back then (modern science only came into existence in the last few centuries) b)What science existed back then was called "natural sciences" and was studies by monks and similar religious people since academia did not exist back then and whatever scholars existed back then were always tied to religion since the nobility rarely gave two shits about developing a proper intellectual guild of sorts c)Middle Ages monks and religious scholars when they weren't preaching to choir, they were essentially librarians, always copying translating old books into new ones, since no one else was doing that (this is why ancient works are still available for us to read) and despite claims that many early Christians destroying "pagan" culture, most of the time it was due to the more fundamentalist groups playing politics and the amount of work destroyed is not as great as claimed at play, and d)Most of what we call "centers of knowledge" like the Library of Alexandria and similar were far from the supersecret science file closet modern pop culture claims, but rather they were more like large academic libraries buying copies of already existing works, most of which were either religious texts, mythology stories, basic knowledge written on papyrus and God knows how many other unimportant works that have been copied over and over again. Not to mention the Library of Alexandria wasn't actually one, but rather multiple, since while it was partially destroyed during the wars, the works kept there were also moved to other places. Not to mention that the Library of Alexandria wasn't the only one back then, it was just the most famous one.
@@sargon6000 this is one of those myths that will not go away for a long time, just like how people think everyone in the middle ages was constantly drunk or practically never bathed. It helps that this makes people feel superior to those "savages" in the past.
Gods but I love the Comments section! Nowhere else will you find so many medieval historians trying to give free lessons on how Daniel Jackson is Wrong!
Even in Europe during the Dark Ages, it wasn't that bad. The Church, for all of the questionable things it did back then, did do much to preserve knowledge from Ancient Greece and Rome, and even encouraged important scientific and philosophical endeavors of the time period. The only reason it's called the Dark Ages by historians is because of a lack of written information on the period, leaving us "in the dark" so to speak on some of the more minute details of the era.
Emperor of Cartoons that depends on the Leader in charge. Some Popes fostered science, and tried to expand our technology for practical things such as architecture. But in certain figures in ages, they'd ban, destroy, or steal scientific knowledge. Others simply archived the stuff for bizarre reasons. It's still evident today. Look at Islam, it became a guardian and progressor of ancient knowledge, records, made progress with laws, math, and science that was ahead of the rest of Europe for centuries. Today, half the Islamic priests trying to ban things like science and education. Hell, look into the US and note how many rural conservative towns don't want to teach science and want the bible taught instead. It boils down to every incident trying to preserve their position of power and influence in society.
His Honer, Special Council Covfefe Chocker This is correct. As religions evolve, they rewrite history to their own benefit. If i recall, a few years ago they stated that aliens might be real, because theres a growing consensus that they might be. Theyll say anything to try and stay relevant.
@Nob the Knave Funny how we know the church is rewriting the past when they're doing so much to rewrite the past. The catholic church lost influence and hasnt been a significant part of the world for centuries
No, it's not because of the Dark Ages. Contrary to Danielle's claim, there were a lot of scientific breakthroughs and they were not suppressed. What he should have said was that we were held back due to our numerous conflicts and lack of efforts in our education systems
I love people saying while Europe squabbled in the dark places elsewhere, such as the Middle East continued to make scientific and mathematical advancements, like it's something to be proud of. Oh yeah. Places like Baghdad and Kabul are shining beacons of civilization.
Baghdad was actually a shining beacon of civilian...until the Mongols showed up in 1258. Countless words of science, engineering, and mathematics were destroyed, scholars killed, upwards of 800,000+ slaughtered. Arab culture went into decline after that.
"Baghdad and Kabul" Conveniently ignore the past two decades (not to mention fifty plus years) of US intelligence plus military "intervention" in the Middle East at your own peril.
hmm considering what is going on today fighting over some land and PC bs we should go outthere and explore space instead prickeling here over some ego politicians over fosil resources
It is odd how Native American Tribes were isolated for thousands of years and they didn't seem to advance much, were as Europe and Asian boomed in technology and mathematics in this time. The native Americans also had better access to land and resources.
They were never exposed to new ideas. Think of it like this the European and Asain states were trading and fighting each other and their neighbors for centuries. That exposed them to new ideas and technologies. The native Americans were super isolated just like the Australian aborigines
@@DenGigantiske they also had very little reason to advance there tech their food was plentiful and most tribes had a practice of using everything hell move a bit further south and we see more advanced tech with the Aztecs, Myans, and other names I can't remember they had large scale buildings, farming, rafts, slightly more advanced weapons
From what I learned in college, the reason the Europeans progressed so rapidly was because they were in constant war with each other. That, and their convenient location allowed for vast trade in knowledge as well as materials.
Everyone is debating the historical inaccuracy if this statement but the stagnate isn't real, thor isn't asgard, Egyptian gods were go'auld. It's a fictional universe.
Even so there are still things based on our world in that show. It's fair to criticize when a show actually misrepresents aspect of real life history and treat it like fact.
@@WillofDD The gain in knowledge was slowed to a crawl. The Roman Catholic Church had all the knowledge to continue advancing and kept it under lock and key. It was "dark" because none of us were "enlightened" until there was a shift. "Dark Age" is accurate.
@@WreckerR not because of the catholic church. After rome fell numerous of nations went to war to try to fill the power gap. There were still advancements in art architecture and science. It only went slowly from our pov was because the nations of Europe were divided.
I was just about to roll my sleeves up and get into this fight then I realized: "THIS IS STARGATE!" lol Among the shallowest bits of sci fi ever written (and yes that includes its source material, the motion picture). lmao
It's funny how many of ancient history was preserved on monasteries or mathematical achievements were made by religious cultures like Muslims or Mayans. For example: that b*llshit about "the decade ended in 2019 and not in 2020" was because the Gregorian calendar was implemented before the concept of zero was introduced into Europe, so Gregorian calendar has no "year zero". So, religions were not the problem, but the political organization of Europe, where the feudal system limited trade and propagation of ideas, when trade and travel increased again thanks to the search of new routes, then the European science begun to increase.
+Beeston 01 But that Golden Age only lasted 5 Century's at best. Roughly the 8th to 13th Century's. There was still a period between the fall of the Roman Empire in the 5th Century to the start of the Islamic Golden Age where nothing happened.
This is false for three reasons: 1. Science was not only preserved but advanced in the Eastern Roman Empire, the Islamic Caliphates, the Tang then Song Dynasties, to say nothing of extinct civilizations whose writings were simply on more ephemeral media or those like the Mayans whose culture was almost wiped out by those enlightened Europeans. 2. Even in Western Europe which suffered under numerous invasions before and after Charlemagne, monasteries preserved a large body of work as well as knowledge of practical matters while also trying to negotiate truces between warring nobles. 3. It was in fact one of the most powerful cities in Western Europe (formerly an Eastern Roman tributary) which led the sack of Constantinople in 1204 which effectively ended any true Roman continuity with a much smaller successor state to rise again in 50 years that limped until 1453. This sack ultimately led to the Renaissance not just of power but also culture.
800 years? From what date? Is someone trying to label everything before the Renaisance as "the Dark Ages"? If so, this person forgets that without the Crusades, there wouldn't have been any end to the Dark Ages.
i was gonna make a comment to the extent that it's because of reactionary republicans that we aren't a spacefaring race...but , totally agree with you. it's still kinda lingering with trump turds like MTG and gaetz shitting in the news...
heh most people have no idea how right that statement is. and no they dont consider it taboo now if they dont want us to know it just becomes classified.. which in a way is worse at least back then we knew we were being oppressed
It really bothers me how someone with a PhD described the Dark Ages inaccurately. Contrary to popular beliefs, it was NOT a chaotic or backwards time. There were lots of advances including agriculture, government, economy, mathematics, technology, medicine, education, and so on. It was called the Dark Ages because much of the written records from after the fall of the Roman empire was lost as well as the bias from a Roman-centric mindset.
It's a bit more complicated than that. There were definitely significant advancements made but only in ways approved by religious leaders at the time. Anything that contradicted religious dogma would have been censured and declared heresy. So, in a way, while Daniel may have described the dark ages inaccurately, he was right about how we would be colonizing space if they didn't happen, because the very fundamental concepts that would have allowed for that would have been rejected - the idea that there could even be other worlds out there to colonize in the first place was anathema to medieval Christians.
Of course, that's just the European dark ages. There hasn't actually been an incident of civilization collapsing worldwide, just localized collapses in the wake of decaying empires at different points in time.
@@VestedUTuber Are you saying, that we aren't colonozing the space, because the church didn't wanted us to, 800 years ago? Because if you are: The time frame in which the dark ages happened and the one in which we started modernising transport systems are fundemantely different.
We started using steampowered engines long after the end of the dark ages, but not because the church didn't want to. There just was no incentive for us to change.
And without even having working steam engines there was just no way to even dream of space travel.
@@hansmuller1267
I'm saying that the critical fields of research necessary to make those developments would have been censured by the church as heresy, regardless of whether there was incentive to pursue such research or not. Any sort of questioning of the established cosmology would have been declared heresy and any sort of self-propelled vehicle would be met with suspicion and distrust at best and outright fear and hatred at worst.
Additionally, the "powers that be were divinely created that way" mindset would have been one of the main factors for why there was no incentive to travel. A major philosophy of Christianity in general is effectively complacency with one's life situation, the self-justification of personal suffering and the expectation of paradise after death if you put up with the shit life throws at you. Some of the main incentives to travel are the promises of fortune and a better life elsewhere, but if the dominant philosophy is that such things don't matter then those incentives no longer apply. And with people not settling elsewhere, there was no demand for infrastructure beyond that which could serve a single town or city, or maybe at most a small cluster of towns or cities.
Yes, but in a sense he's not completely wrong in that there were times where science was indeed heretical.
@@VestedUTuber yea exactly whatever advances were made until science got out from underneath religious thumbs were overshadowed for most of this time span. I think Daniel is right in this statement.
"We'd be colonizing planets right now."
Boi you are colonizing planets right now.
No science wasn't Heresy and Anathema during the "Dark Ages"
He would have been more correct to say that if all Man's achievements were consolidated and preserved after being shared we would be light years ahead as a race. We have not been focused on educational advancement as a race as there has been WAY to many other agenda's that have been in play.
Well, you know, you have to find a reason to live for today instead of the tomorrow you will never get to see anyway. A lot of people find their reason in someone else's backyard.
we've got 200k+ years of completely undocumented history and advancement that was lost to us at the end of the last ice age. most of what survived that cataclysm burned in the library of Alexandria
The Dark Ages, they were you know, Dark.
Teal'c: Thank you.
It's funny how a PhD on linguistics could say that when maybe half of his research material was preserved in monasteries, specially on later seasons where thar Merlin plot was based on ancient British legends.
Preserved is not the same as being advanced (I don't actually know what happened during the dark ages, just pointing out the difference between what you wrote and what was said in the video). Also, the Merlin plot revolved around one of the last surviving members of the most technologically advanced civilization ever, not around any advancements made by the peoples of earth
I would argue both the fall of Rome and necessity affected human development. The Dark Ages were a period of recovery where survival itself sparked change and technology, particularly as it applied to warfare were the most affected. The show as others have suggested oversimplified this. It is a common mistake if you don't understand the Church actually saved and protected knowledge from Ancient Rome and did sponsor considerably development in technology and the arts. This again was done for different reasons. It wouldn't be until the early 1900's that people started seriously contemplate living on other worlds and it wasn't until Kennedy that a government really sponsored it
I really wonder which 800 years he is talking about.
Riight, so Dr. Jackson doesn't know about the Byzantine, Frank or Holy-Roman Empires.
Emperor of Cartoons
That is the thesis which I find false. Between 400 and 1200. Art and culture evolved, new tools and methods were discovered in agriculture, and in navigation. The first universities were founded. Paper was introduced, minuscules (low letter case) were invented, long standing laws were written... etc. No. I don't belive the 'dark ages' were any darker then the present days.
+Benjámin Kurilla (bbenjoe) In terms of scientific advancement, there still wasn't much being done. Sure, there was still the technological innovation you mentioned occurring, but this was being driven by economics and warfare, not any new scientific discoveries. Our understandings of biology and physics sat still for the height of the Roman Empire.
*****
I will consider this answer. It's a good one.
@@CRocketSlim wait what? Physics did not advance during the middle age? Thats wrong as fuck you know? Optics, math and a lot of domain progressed.
Renaissance is a fairy tale, its only true for the art and culture, not science or any other advancement.
The modern era was built upon the development of the middle age and mist of the "barbaric" fact from the middle age come in reality from the modern era.
I still can't believe that we can read such bullshit when historians made a hell of a work to reestablish the truth.
Everything you say is the biased image the 19century historians made.
Skalathrax's last video post 😔 hope you're alright
And that was 7 years ago!
It's always unfortunate when the writers of shows like this like this don't bother to check whether what they're saying is true or not. This character is supposed to be a historian, correct?
In the early 1900s historians began to realize that the term "Dark Ages" was a misnomer. It was coined in the Renaissance with a clear agenda, namely to badmouth an entire section of history. The term is associated with connotations and so-called facts about the time, such as those Dr. Jackson mentions here, that are long-standing results of propaganda.
The idea of rationality and higher learning saw a steady _increase_ as the so called "Dark Ages" progressed. The Catholic Church has long considered scientific progress and research - then called "natural philosophy" - to be a _good thing_. And since the Church was in power at that time, it did what it could. Mass copying of older works and tomes was conducted by religious authorities. Philosophy and the foundations of schools were supported heavily by the church. Codified law and its related philosophy developed throughout Europe. Technical knowledge and practices improved. Metallurgy, engineering, etc developed as the "Dark Ages" went on.
The Middle Ages were a growing period, and so subject to growing pains. However, advancement _did_ happen. Most any hindrance of progress stemmed from the barbaric and ruthless lords in the early ages, who went burning and pillaging and conquering their way through the more "civilized" parts of the former empire.
Most of the practices and prejudices we typically ascribe to "Dark Ages Europe" really come from the oh-so-enlightened 15-1600s, the _end_ of this time period.
The real problem was Catholic only wanted their priest to learn how to write. The biggest problem was if you were smart you didn't have kids in the dark ages. Second the most pressing issue was the need to defend against incursion.
This. I can't for the life of me figure out why this myth is still alive. Just look at something obvious like armor during the middle ages. It's such an obvious fact that technology very much didn't stop progressing during the "dark ages".
Although I suppose you could argue that if Rome had survived the ideas of Greek, Egyptian and Mesopotanian philosophy and scientific advancedment would've taken a more active role. Perhaps something like this is to expain the Tollan advancement?
The proble is he's wrong even if he's right. Persian and Indo-Arabic science played a major role in covering the intellectual gaps. There are about 50 things wrong with is argument even though it has some truth to it. He's reasoning like a scientist and not like an actual historical expert.
Not to mention that when speaking of the dark ages one is usually refering to the European countries under the catholic church. What were the Asian countries (which had yet to be touched by Catholicism) doing then? Ya know, besides inventing gunpowder, silk, and creating a culture and country that has stood for over a thousand years?
My pet peeve is people confidently talking about the 'Dark Ages' when they clearly don't understand what the term means and also don't know anything about medieval history!
The spinning water ball hurtling through a vacuum bullshit is over
Teal'c looks like he had some questions answered
This is utter nonsense.
Emperor of Cartoons Uh, how?
Blake H. Burnnnn
I hope that you've updated your opinion within the last year. Maybe you've read a few books on the subject.
While Wikipedia is not in itself a scholarly source, it is a good amalgamator of current academic and social conclusions on issues and subjects. So here, in case you haven't looked into the issue a little more, is a place to start. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catholic_Church_and_science
I remember this part
Bless.
Totally historically inaccurate. The early scientists in Western society were overwhelmingly priests and monks, since these tended to be the most educated men of their times. The Dark Ages happened for one reason only---the fall of the Roman Empire, which led to the destabilization of all of Western Europe. In the East, the Byzantine Empire remained a center of culture, civilization, and science, although it was fairly static for hundreds of years, as was the Ottoman Empire which opposed it. In Europe, Vikings and other barbarian cultures that had long been suppressed by Rome instituted a period of raiding and warfare that lasted hundreds of years. The ancient kingdoms that arose and would eventually become France, England and Spain were barely able to survive, let alone prosper. (And these raiders, like the Norse, were pagan, not Christian. In fact, many abbies and monasteries were the targets of raids during this period.) At one point the Danes invaded England and held half the country. The Scots and Picts held the north, and the Irish would also occasionally invade. Given all that, it's hardly a surprise that science didn't prosper. Much of what the Romans and other ancient cultures had learned was lost forever. Other knowledge was only kept alive by Christian monks and nobles who valued learning. And in the Renaissance many Christians advanced the knowledge of science. Kepler, Newton, Copernicus, and Galileo were all Christians.
...Indeed.🤣
If this were to come from O'Neill or Sam, it would have been excusable, since history isn't their specialty. But Daniel is an archaeologist, and while he's the one with the crazy ancient aliens theory, he should at least some basic knowledge of history, where he would have learnt that the Dung Ages was just a myth.
This gets a bit jarring later, when we learn that the base of the Tollan technology is an alien metal/element called Trinium, which doesn't exist on Earth and only on some alien planets, which pretty much defeats the whole "if it weren't for the Dung Ages" bullshit myth, since it was alien macguffin that allowed the Tollan to reach their current level of technology, and not some religious superstition conspiracy. A season later they find a planet on a similar technological level with the Tollans that were using Naquadah, the same superelement used in Stargates and by countless other species, as power source for their technology.
And then later in the series, when Earth finally manages to find and mine sufficient trinium and naquadah, they're basically starting to build entire friggin' starships.
So much for religion holding us back, eh.
The dark ages are not as serious as some people say, there was still some sort of technological advance/innovation, but it is true that it was a HUGE setback for humanity compared to other ages.
@@Mairesist Nope. The whole "religion held us back from building spaceships" is just post-Renaissance bullshit. The fall of the (Western) Roman Empire was inevitable, as invasions, a severe labor deficit, a decrease in the use of slavery, overspending hastened its demise. The rise of Christianity wasn't able to stop it, instead it merely soften the fall, since as it spread on the entire European continent, many very different cultures were able to have a common denominator, which helped politics to a degree. But even with the loss of the RE, advancements in technology still continued. Metallurgy became much better, and thus new inventions appeared: the horseshoe, the heavy plow, as well as other inventions such as the hourglass and wind/water mills. Metal manufacturing became cheaper, compared to the Roman period. And this is only in Europe. India, China and the Muslim world also developed new technologies and many also reached Europe fairly early. However, none could have leaped towards an Industrial revolution in short term, because human labor was still cheap, metallurgy while better still wasn't good enough to build long-lasting machines, and since no one had coal that was cheap enough to be extracted and used in large scale, not to mention the lack of a proper mercantile class (which only appeared during the Renaissance), meant there was no money to be made from a proto-industrial revolution. As such it took centuries of social reforms and changes before the proper foundation for the industrial revolution became reality. Some steps just can't be jumped that easily.
@@Mairesist Then there's also the issue of "Religion banning science" which is also nonsense, since a)Science as we know it did not exist back then (modern science only came into existence in the last few centuries) b)What science existed back then was called "natural sciences" and was studies by monks and similar religious people since academia did not exist back then and whatever scholars existed back then were always tied to religion since the nobility rarely gave two shits about developing a proper intellectual guild of sorts c)Middle Ages monks and religious scholars when they weren't preaching to choir, they were essentially librarians, always copying translating old books into new ones, since no one else was doing that (this is why ancient works are still available for us to read) and despite claims that many early Christians destroying "pagan" culture, most of the time it was due to the more fundamentalist groups playing politics and the amount of work destroyed is not as great as claimed at play, and d)Most of what we call "centers of knowledge" like the Library of Alexandria and similar were far from the supersecret science file closet modern pop culture claims, but rather they were more like large academic libraries buying copies of already existing works, most of which were either religious texts, mythology stories, basic knowledge written on papyrus and God knows how many other unimportant works that have been copied over and over again. Not to mention the Library of Alexandria wasn't actually one, but rather multiple, since while it was partially destroyed during the wars, the works kept there were also moved to other places.
Not to mention that the Library of Alexandria wasn't the only one back then, it was just the most famous one.
@@sargon6000 this is one of those myths that will not go away for a long time, just like how people think everyone in the middle ages was constantly drunk or practically never bathed.
It helps that this makes people feel superior to those "savages" in the past.
@@Soridan Yeah, some tropes die hard.
Dark Ages actually refers to the lack of source material and not to some "dark times"...
WRONG
Activate super Soulnoid release level 10.
Season is this from, what episode
When they first met the Tollan.
s1e17 - "Enigma"
Gods but I love the Comments section! Nowhere else will you find so many medieval historians trying to give free lessons on how Daniel Jackson is Wrong!
Even in Europe during the Dark Ages, it wasn't that bad. The Church, for all of the questionable things it did back then, did do much to preserve knowledge from Ancient Greece and Rome, and even encouraged important scientific and philosophical endeavors of the time period. The only reason it's called the Dark Ages by historians is because of a lack of written information on the period, leaving us "in the dark" so to speak on some of the more minute details of the era.
Emperor of Cartoons that depends on the Leader in charge. Some Popes fostered science, and tried to expand our technology for practical things such as architecture. But in certain figures in ages, they'd ban, destroy, or steal scientific knowledge. Others simply archived the stuff for bizarre reasons.
It's still evident today. Look at Islam, it became a guardian and progressor of ancient knowledge, records, made progress with laws, math, and science that was ahead of the rest of Europe for centuries.
Today, half the Islamic priests trying to ban things like science and education. Hell, look into the US and note how many rural conservative towns don't want to teach science and want the bible taught instead.
It boils down to every incident trying to preserve their position of power and influence in society.
His Honer, Special Council Covfefe Chocker This is correct. As religions evolve, they rewrite history to their own benefit. If i recall, a few years ago they stated that aliens might be real, because theres a growing consensus that they might be. Theyll say anything to try and stay relevant.
@Nob the Knave Funny how we know the church is rewriting the past when they're doing so much to rewrite the past. The catholic church lost influence and hasnt been a significant part of the world for centuries
Are you telling me that the reason I'm not living it up in my space mansion watering my space grass right now is because if the dark ages!?
i would say that probably has more to do with you being in the group that says eat the rich but i could be wrong.
No, it's not because of the Dark Ages. Contrary to Danielle's claim, there were a lot of scientific breakthroughs and they were not suppressed. What he should have said was that we were held back due to our numerous conflicts and lack of efforts in our education systems
A dark mark against Jackson. A gross oversimplification and misrepresentation of the "Dark Ages"
I love people saying while Europe squabbled in the dark places elsewhere, such as the Middle East continued to make scientific and mathematical advancements, like it's something to be proud of. Oh yeah. Places like Baghdad and Kabul are shining beacons of civilization.
Baghdad was actually a shining beacon of civilian...until the Mongols showed up in 1258. Countless words of science, engineering, and mathematics were destroyed, scholars killed, upwards of 800,000+ slaughtered. Arab culture went into decline after that.
Don't forget about Islam's role in their downfall...
"Baghdad and Kabul"
Conveniently ignore the past two decades (not to mention fifty plus years) of US intelligence plus military "intervention" in the Middle East at your own peril.
hmm considering what is going on today fighting over some land and PC bs we should go outthere and explore space instead prickeling here over some ego politicians over fosil resources
It is odd how Native American Tribes were isolated for thousands of years and they didn't seem to advance much, were as Europe and Asian boomed in technology and mathematics in this time. The native Americans also had better access to land and resources.
They were never exposed to new ideas. Think of it like this the European and Asain states were trading and fighting each other and their neighbors for centuries. That exposed them to new ideas and technologies. The native Americans were super isolated just like the Australian aborigines
@@DenGigantiske they also had very little reason to advance there tech
their food was plentiful and most tribes had a practice of using everything
hell move a bit further south and we see more advanced tech with the Aztecs, Myans, and other names I can't remember
they had large scale buildings, farming, rafts, slightly more advanced weapons
From what I learned in college, the reason the Europeans progressed so rapidly was because they were in constant war with each other. That, and their convenient location allowed for vast trade in knowledge as well as materials.
Everyone is debating the historical inaccuracy if this statement but the stagnate isn't real, thor isn't asgard, Egyptian gods were go'auld. It's a fictional universe.
Even so there are still things based on our world in that show. It's fair to criticize when a show actually misrepresents aspect of real life history and treat it like fact.
Actually, Dr. Jackson's statement is pretty spot-on. It's called "The Dark Ages" for a reason.
@@WreckerR it being a "dark age" is a misnomer made by 19th century historians who were kinda inaccurate.
@@WillofDD The gain in knowledge was slowed to a crawl. The Roman Catholic Church had all the knowledge to continue advancing and kept it under lock and key. It was "dark" because none of us were "enlightened" until there was a shift. "Dark Age" is accurate.
@@WreckerR not because of the catholic church. After rome fell numerous of nations went to war to try to fill the power gap. There were still advancements in art architecture and science. It only went slowly from our pov was because the nations of Europe were divided.
I was just about to roll my sleeves up and get into this fight then I realized: "THIS IS STARGATE!" lol
Among the shallowest bits of sci fi ever written (and yes that includes its source material, the motion picture). lmao
More like 800 year of religion censurship of science.
Kinda like what they are trying to do now?
Not any more. More technology has been invented in years and religitardism can't stop it
"religitardism"
It's funny how many of ancient history was preserved on monasteries or mathematical achievements were made by religious cultures like Muslims or Mayans. For example: that b*llshit about "the decade ended in 2019 and not in 2020" was because the Gregorian calendar was implemented before the concept of zero was introduced into Europe, so Gregorian calendar has no "year zero".
So, religions were not the problem, but the political organization of Europe, where the feudal system limited trade and propagation of ideas, when trade and travel increased again thanks to the search of new routes, then the European science begun to increase.
dark ages in europe but not in the middle east. islamic golden age. check it out.
+Beeston 01 But that Golden Age only lasted 5 Century's at best. Roughly the 8th to 13th Century's. There was still a period between the fall of the Roman Empire in the 5th Century to the start of the Islamic Golden Age where nothing happened.
not islamic but arabic golden age before islamism dragged them back to the dark ages again
Not anyone. Now it's all about the rapes, stonings and bombings
This is false for three reasons:
1. Science was not only preserved but advanced in the Eastern Roman Empire, the Islamic Caliphates, the Tang then Song Dynasties, to say nothing of extinct civilizations whose writings were simply on more ephemeral media or those like the Mayans whose culture was almost wiped out by those enlightened Europeans.
2. Even in Western Europe which suffered under numerous invasions before and after Charlemagne, monasteries preserved a large body of work as well as knowledge of practical matters while also trying to negotiate truces between warring nobles.
3. It was in fact one of the most powerful cities in Western Europe (formerly an Eastern Roman tributary) which led the sack of Constantinople in 1204 which effectively ended any true Roman continuity with a much smaller successor state to rise again in 50 years that limped until 1453. This sack ultimately led to the Renaissance not just of power but also culture.
That's somewhat inaccurate, more a pop conception of the 'Dark Ages,' a term not even used by scholars.
Absolutely true
No, absolutely wrong. Any historians would tell you
seem to be a lot of angry arabs in the comments haha
Not just arabs have the right to call this out. China, for example, also prospered around the Middle Ages.
800 years? From what date? Is someone trying to label everything before the Renaisance as "the Dark Ages"? If so, this person forgets that without the Crusades, there wouldn't have been any end to the Dark Ages.
600 - fall of the Roman Empire and start of barbarian rule in Europe.
1400 - Approximate start of renaissance.
600->1400 == about 800 years.
This lost me money
We almost entered another Dark Age last week.
i was gonna make a comment to the extent that it's because of reactionary republicans that we aren't a spacefaring race...but , totally agree with you. it's still kinda lingering with trump turds like MTG and gaetz shitting in the news...
heh most people have no idea how right that statement is. and no they dont consider it taboo now if they dont want us to know it just becomes classified.. which in a way is worse at least back then we knew we were being oppressed
Well, let us just acknowledge the writer took many liberties in trying to create a storyline for the show. Entertaining show, just not our truth.
Such gross historical ignorance.