Tudor Historian Reviews The Tudors Season 3 Part 2
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- Опубліковано 9 вер 2024
- Hi, I'm Dr Estelle Paranque and in this History Police video I review the TV Show The Tudors Season 3 Part 2 (last four episodes).
Let me know what you think down below and I will reply to you!
I personally feel a bit bad for Cromwell despite his role in Anne Boleyn's downfall, he had a really horrific death apparently with a botched execution, I don't think anybody deserves that
A sadist and psychopath does.
The real cruel person was Henry. He turned on people who served him or loved him…
The way Katherine Howard was portrayed made me really dislike her.
Me too
Yes and that’s why this show doesn’t do her justice. She was far from being perfect (an upcoming interview with Gareth Russell, her biographer is coming this month where he explains well who she truly was)!
Her actress played Dani in G.O.T. in the first pilot, but H.B.O. didn't like it, so they recast the role, and Emilia Clarke got the role. Fun fact in case yall didn't know.
Joss Stone did a wonderful job portraying Anne of Cleves. She’s also an amazing singer.
Princess Mary was my favorite character too. Thanks for your analysis
She’s wonderful!
I completely agree that the scene where Anna and Henry meet falls flat. We can see they don't hit it off but the viewer has no idea why, because Joss Stone is lovely and Jonathan Rhys-Meyers looks fine too, with none of the obvious physical deterioration the real Henry had by this point. If Henry had been more decrepit, and we'd gotten to see Anna react with surprise and revulsion to Henry the man as opposed to Henry the King, we would understand why Henry doesn't like her. Basically, she has wounded his vanity.
And, yes, I HATE the way Katherine Howard is written. The character is a middle-aged man's misogynistic fantasy of a slutty sex kitten.
Oh totally. I think you’ll love my interview with Gareth Russell for storytellers circle at the end of the month! We discuss Catherine Howard 😊
@@ElleHistory I know I will love it! Young and Damned and Fair is one of my favorite biographies--a real masterclass in how such books should be written. And Gareth is as brilliant a speaker as he is a writer. Wonderfully witty and erudite.
Wonderful review, Dr Parenque. I completely agree. The encounter with Anne of Cleves awfully inaccurate. She's one of my favourites who kept her head literally in every aspect and her official portraits by Hans Holbein are truly beautiful masterpieces. The portrayal of Katherine Howard was sexualised and hard to watch indeed, her story is heartbreaking, she was a product of her upbringing, context and unfortunate circumstances. Despite historical inaccuracies, TheTudors is a show with fantastic acting and photography. Love your History Police videos. Thank you 🙏🏻
Thank you so much for being here!! I am so so grateful!! thank you. 🙏🏻🙏🏻🙏🏻🙏🏻🙏🏻🙏🏻
I think Joss Stone was born to play Anne of Cleves and whenever I think of Anne, I see Joss.
The actress playing Mary was great and also the actor playing Eustace and their chemistry as friends was portrayed well.
Agree about the way they sexualised Katherine. Ali
I agree’ thanks so much for the comment!! 🙏🏻
There is part of me that always feels sorry for Henery VIII. Can you imagine people being able to smell you coming down the hall? He must have been very aware of it.
He [probably] didn’t get them married because most of Europe believed Mary should be Queen. And to marry her and give her the option of having heirs would be disastrous in Henry’s mind.
I think Catherine Howard's potrayal is a sad depiction of what happens to young girls when they are sexual exploited at a young age. Not saying I agree with her potrayal.
Yes you’re right. In my storytellers circle next video (for members only) Gareth Russell explains that so vividly!
As a Wolf Hall fan (books & show) I can’t help but feel for Cromwell. But he was definitely no saint.
Your reaction was as always on point i don't understand why the portrayed Cathrine howard as an extremely sexualn women they could have had portrayed her as a young girl full of life who became another victim of henery the 8th thats so bad
Totally. Thank you so much for watching as usual! 🙏🏻🙏🏻
So here's the funny part: I distinctly remember reading the books before the show came out. I cannot find them anymore, but I know that I read the books.
Back in the day I was a student and I bought historical paperback books, so I'd have something to read on the train/bus.
I remember being confused af bc at the time I was already familiar with the basics of the Tudor court under Henry VIII. Two of his sisters being merged into one, the age gaps made no sense and the timeline was off by far.
Watching the Tudors with me is hard, bc I be like "That never happened, the costumes are wrong, the setting is wrong, the timeline doesn't add up" aso. but I still like to watch it, for some reason. The Tudors is a weird show. And of course I agree with everything you just said.
But I still have a question: a video by you on Amy Robsart and the theories behind her alleged murder. Thank you! Et des salutations de Baviére!
Edit.: there is no Philipp Duke of Bavaria at the time and the only Philipp I could find (Philipp von Pfalz-Neuburg) apparently had no relation to Mary.
Anne of Cleves was bad at entertaining the king for she spoke hardly any English. As far as the complaints go, I think the young virgin Anne had far more reason to complain about a stinky old Henry, whose disgusting wounds and lazy hygiene must have been appalling to a young woman.
I’d love to do to a video on Amy Robsart! 😊 lots of content coming your way.
K. Howard's story breaks my heart. Look at SIX the Musical.....as historically inaccurate as so much of it is........the song K. Howard does is heart breaking getting to the end, I can relate to it. They took from her, they took advantage of her. She looked for love in all the wrong places. And she paid the price for other people's failure to protect her or treat her right. She is a tragic figure and it does get to me watching her part in any movie or show, having some idea of the abuse she faced.
I’m so with you on that. Gareth Russell, her biographer, is interviewed this month and I’m sharing a sneak peak for everyone and the full video is accessible for members of the ElleHistory Club. He has a very balanced view of her, so interesting.
Hello Dr. Paranque,
Thanks for the lovely review! I love the real Anne of Cleves and thought Joss Stone did a great job portraying her. Yes Catherine Howard yuck poor girl she didn't deserve to be sexualized the way she was in this show. The real Catherine Howard was a very kind, compassionate person. I adore her relationship with little Princess Elizabeth. They loved each other and were close. Elizabeth was devastated when she died.
Hehe I can understand as an Anne Boleyn fan why you wouldn't like Cromwell. I like Anne Boleyn but I like Cromwell too. They were both victims of Henry's tyranny though Cromwell did help bring Anne down. So there's that. I loved the way James Frain portrayed him. He had a lot of nuance. The show makes it seem like he didn't want to kill Anne but in real life I don't think that was the case.
I love your comment so much. How you engage fully and you’re right. I really think that by understand each character we no longer have to pit them against one another… we just embrace them for who they were, individually…
@@ElleHistory Oh yes that can be hard not to do hehe. I confess I tend to get angry with the Seymours and blame them more for Anne's downfall because they benefited more from it long-term than Cromwell did but of course all of that knowledge comes with the benefit of hindsight.
👏 Thank you for your excellent review 😊
Thank you so much. 🙏🏻🙏🏻🙏🏻
But do you hate the scene between Katherine Howard and Henry because you view as a modern woman?
Good point
Thomas Cromwell knew about Henry's impotence. Everyone that knew was murdered. Anne of Cleves was smart not to say anything about the impotence. Maybe that is why she pretended not to know how marriages were consumated. Smart woman...
Anne of Cleves is so amazing!
The sexualisation of Catherine Howard always made me feel a bit uncomfortable when I first watched the show as a teenager. But now I actually know the truth about her and what happened, the way Catherine was written honestly disgusts me. It's a serious low-point of the show.
In contrast, I really liked the portrayal of Thomas Cromwell and I think James Frain was amazing in this role. And I could go on and on about how much I love Mary 😂 So, series 3 is one of highs and lows for me.
Yes I agree with you in terms of portrayal. For my storytellers circle segment (members only) a very interesting interview with Gareth Russell is coming where we discuss his latest book but also Catherine Howard and his views on her!
Yeah poor Catherine Howard. James Frain was great as Cromwell.
I'm not sure I'd call Anne of Cleves the winner out of all 6 wives. On one hand, sure, she got money and property, but on the other hand, as far as I know, conditions were placed on her, like not being allowed to remarry or not being able to leave England. She lived in a golden cage. Golden, sure, but still a cage. Then looking at the proceedings of the annulment, it seems it was all a race to slander her, people coming out with all sorts of accusations: that she wasn't a virgin, that she was smelly, that she was ugly, that she was an alcoholic, that she wore ugly German clothes (at least she didn't wear 16th century Baltic German clothing 😀look it up, that stuff looked creepy, it's the stuff of horror films)... I mean, damn these people were just kicking her while she was down. It must have been a very humiliating situation for her, to be described as some ogre, just so Henry could have his annulment. So was she really a winner? Or merely someone who lost less than the others, but still lost? At least Catherine Parr survived without being humiliated in the process... just threatened with arrest.
Season three was my least favourite (It's been over a decade since I've watched the show though so who knows if my opinions will change on a rewatch 🤷🏼♀) Princess Mary and Thomas Cromwell were its two highlights for me. The latter only as a fictional character in that show of course 😂 I think the actor, James Frain, was too good for the real Cromwell and made him more sympathetic and sincere in his beliefs than he actually was. I felt quite sad for him in his final scene. That's not to say that I believe what Henry did to the real Cromwell was right, but what little sympathy I have for him always evaporates when I remember what he did to Anne Boleyn and the five men who were sacrificed alongside her (I like how you pointed out that it was weird for Cromwell not to have realized how precarious his position was, especially given the prominent role he had played in the May 1536 plot. Out of all the people at court, he's the one who should've been the most aware of that fact). Still, the ultimate villain in everyone's story remains Henrat. As for Princess Mary, I always thought Sarah Bolger did a great job with her. I was actually puzzled when the show came out in 2022 and people were raving about we're finally about to get a portrayal of Princess Mary that's not one-dimensional, and I'm like "Wait what am I missing here? 🧐 How was her portrayal in one dimensional?" I mean here in the part of the show discussed in this video we have a princess of strong faith who's growing into a political player and has learnt from what she has witnessed take place in her father's court and the country overall for the past fifteen-ish years, but who is also a young woman deprived of her mother's love, neglected by her father, surrounded by people who either want to use or kill her, and yearning for true love, a happy marriage and children of her own. I liked her relationship with Anna of Cleves and how Mary's trying to navigate that relationship both as a daughter who has to deal with another new stepmother and as a Catholic figuring out how to deal with a Lutheran. Speaking of Anna, I really don't understand why the show runners couldn't have tried to replicate the historical account and instead went for....whatever that was. That scene made ZERO sense. "" 🤣🤣 Funny how little the fragile male ego has changed in half a millennium 😑 I remember reading or listening somewhere about how Henry had humiliating lies about Anna and her looks, hygiene...etc. read aloud in the divorce court and how she had to endure that silently because she feared for her life. I felt bad for her 😟 I haven't read much about her (Thanks for the book recommendation😃) but I liked the show version as a TV character. Show Katherine Howard on the other hand, ATROCIOUS. There appears to be a pattern with the writers in the way they have envisioned all six wives. It was either saintly matron or evil wh*re, no nuance at all (Except maybe a bit in AB's case in season 2 after Natalie fought for a change in the writing for her character). The way they turned a literal child thrown away to the wolves by those who should've protected her as you've pointed out, into an over-sexualized air-head was borderline criminal! One thing I'd like to briefly touch on however, is that split second around the 14:44 time mark, when Henry asks Katherine to whom she writes her letters and the playful mask drops for a bit and you can see her fear and hesitation. To think of what we could've had if only the writers had put an effort into an authentic portrayal of her and the real tragedy of her story! But more on that in the S4 part one review.
As always, thank you for another wonderful video. I'm trying to catch-up with all the content I've missed and am excited to see all that you've put out for us 🧡
Thank you for being here! 🤍
Wasnt she known officially as Lady Mary?
Are you still doing the rest of The Tudors? xx
Yes of course. My review of season 4 parts 1 & 2 is coming on Friday and next Friday ! 😊😊😊🙏🏻
@@ElleHistory Yay! Thanks 😊
obviously we know that he never rejected anne of cleves because of her appearance, but every time they try to pass off the STUNNING joss stone as of "middling beauty", i completely lose it
She is very beautiful!! 😍I thought she was the prettiest of all the wives.
But really he didn’t. The first time they met she was shocked by his appearance so he rejected her first. Typical toxic man…
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Katherine Howard was not sexualized, this is how she was behaving, some people just have loose morals from a young age, her upringing didn t help but this is the person she was. Even if we re women, it doesn t mean we should consider every woman on the face of the planet the epitome of perfection and sugarcoat reality. She was the only one out of all his wives who actually did him wrong, she cheated, and, no, she did not deserve beheading, that is not what I am saying. Just that we should be able to face facts when someone commits a wrong act and not try to justify it.
I’m afraid I disagree. There is much more complexity to Katherine Howard. In my storytellers circle an interview with Gareth Russell, her biographer, is coming up where he explains so well that yes she was far from being perfect but she’s been wrongly vilified too…
She was abused as a child. She was just a child when they accuse HER of so much wrong doing. Children aren't to blame for adults mistreatment of them. They vilified her to justify killing her. Why? Because Henry found out about the abuse she endured as a child and blamed her. She wasn't a virgin. That was her great crime. Being molested and SAd as a child.
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I agree about Anne. Im sure she was more "plain" in dress than ladies in his court. Ugly? No. Repulsive? No. Henry was a smelly, sickly old man. Grossly over weight and incredibly rude. Anne was repulsed by him. He misled her. I think it's true that Anne stayed out of harms way because England needed Germany's support. Germany was the other major player in reform in the church and breaking away from Rome.
Promo>SM