With out doubt this one was for me one of the most informative and simple to get info from videos and by the way the podcast you mention is amazing, as always thanks your work and lessons.
Thanks for the video! Main point: I'm not a great photographer, but from this video, I feel that part of what makes a great model is a photographer that gives her visions, concepts, and ideas to which she can connect. Maybe I've misunderstood you, but I feel that you are saying that a beautiful woman who just can't connect can't be a good model. The model/photographer connection will be stronger with some partnerships than others, and the extent of connection will decide the "greatness" of that model for that photographer. My primary takeaway from your video is that I need to give her something to which she can connect for the shoot that we want to do. If I do that, I have a decent chance of finding models who will be at least good and sometimes great for my needs. Other thoughts raised by the video: I understand why professional photographers and even many professional models look down on workshops. They aren't what you guys do. For many of us who just enjoy photography as a hobby, they are good enough. I've gone to these events and come home with images that I liked. I've sent copies of the images to the models, and the models have been happy. I like making the models happy. For me, that's enough to call the effort worthwhile. That the real value of my images may be less because half a dozen other people have shot the same image or maybe a better or worse version of the same image doesn't take away my satisfaction. I don't take your comments as a put-down for my enjoying these events, but I sometimes wonder whether professional models and photographers understand why people like me genuinely enjoy the workshops. The other interesting challenge of the workshops is arriving at a location without knowing the location or the models and trying to evaluate everything and get good images within two hours. Sometimes, I hate what I produce from those efforts. Sometimes, I feel that I didn't evaluate the scene very well. Sometimes, I feel that I didn't evaluate the model well and find a way to make a good image of her/him. On the other hand, there is a certain satisfaction in feeling that "I came. I saw. I conquered." I've done one shoot where I was the only photographer and the model was the only model and we shot in a hotel room. She had some clothing that a designer had made for her and needed a photographer to take pictures of her wearing the clothing. This was another of those impromptu shoots where we couldn't do much planning ahead of time. On top of that, the clothing was more along the lines of high fashion which isn't my strength. I still enjoyed the challenge, and I think she was pleased enough with the results. In most of my one-on-one shooting, I've sent the model long emails telling her what the setup would be and what I was trying to achieve. We would email back and forth a little bit if she had questions. I wanted her to arrive with a very good idea of what was going to happen, where it was going to happen, and how it was going to happen. If I felt that these communications were good and we had shared a vision, I haven't felt the need to do a great deal of directing during the shoot. I've told myself that letting each model interpret a bit within the vision keeps me from having one shoot repeated a dozen times with different faces and bodies while still just being one shoot. In working with experienced travel models, this seems to work pretty well. That I sometimes stutter a little bit also means that I'm not struggling with trying to talk while I'm trying to shoot. For me, much of what makes a great experienced model is that she can read my description of what I'm trying to do and how I'm trying to do it and get something close to my vision. She'll have her own ideas on how to interpret that vision, but we're working from similar interpretations of the vision. For an inexperienced model, much of what makes a great model is a playfulness about the idea that we're trying to shoot. She may not know exactly how to pose or know her angles. I may not pick up on those things all that well while we are shooting. However, she's happy to try things in the moment. We can talk a little bit to get a vision together, and then I can shoot while she interprets the concept. I can see things and ask her to try what she's doing a little differently, and she is happy to try what I suggest. When I was in grad school the first time, I did photography of people in my church fellowship group. At the time, I remember thinking that my camera (shooting Kodachrome slide film) often caught people's self-images as much as their actual images. I wasn't shooting people who were models in any sense of the word. I was shooting just regular people. However, I noticed that some women who just seemed to have a good self-image would look good in almost every slide. Some women who seemed very beautiful just didn't seem to look as good in the slides. From other conversations, I sometimes had a sense of self-image issues, and some of them would tell me directly about these issues. I sometimes think that part of being a good model is just having a self-image that allows someone not to feel down on herself or even himself if the image just doesn't quite work.
STAND UP AND PREACH! Been following you for a solid min, but this stuff is LEGIT good advice. This is the stuff I teach to the local workshops around me and can second, third, and forth this comment. I wish I could like this more than once.
I've only photographed a nude woman once (it went very well though it stressed me for part of the session), but I have attended many life drawing classes at various art schools. I noticed that when certain models were in the class _everybody_ drew better pictures. At many classes there was a break half way through, and some models left for the canteen without even looking at the pictures that had been drawn by the students. Weird. All the models that were the most inspiring however, took a keen interest in looking around, they really wanted to see every picture. There are a lot of things that make a great model but one thing that really helps is when _they are genuinely interested_ in what's going on, not just there to earn some cash.
Here's my beef with shooting "models". I've spent years learning about photography, lighting, and retouching. If someone wants to be a model I think they should make the effort to learn a little bit about posing. There are plenty of resources available for free, after all, that's how I learned to pose models and people for portraits.
Joe, you constantly preach the do not ask your models to smile, and I understand your comments. Why do you have smile tattooed onto your first finger on your right hand? Just to say as well, I love your well reasoned comments so much. Editing to add, every one of the photos of the presenters, in NC, except for the lawyer follows your guidline of if it bends - bend it.
@@theJoeEdelman Always loved the tat, and so appropriate for a photographer. It did take me a few close watches to see what it was, and on your finger that presses the trigger. It did make me smile.
With out doubt this one was for me one of the most informative and simple to get info from videos and by the way the podcast you mention is amazing, as always thanks your work and lessons.
"Shooting a sporting event" is a great summation of 'models' doing their own thing in front of the camera.
Rewatching at 1 am. This info is so useful.
Thanks for the video!
Main point:
I'm not a great photographer, but from this video, I feel that part of what makes a great model is a photographer that gives her visions, concepts, and ideas to which she can connect. Maybe I've misunderstood you, but I feel that you are saying that a beautiful woman who just can't connect can't be a good model. The model/photographer connection will be stronger with some partnerships than others, and the extent of connection will decide the "greatness" of that model for that photographer. My primary takeaway from your video is that I need to give her something to which she can connect for the shoot that we want to do. If I do that, I have a decent chance of finding models who will be at least good and sometimes great for my needs.
Other thoughts raised by the video:
I understand why professional photographers and even many professional models look down on workshops. They aren't what you guys do. For many of us who just enjoy photography as a hobby, they are good enough. I've gone to these events and come home with images that I liked. I've sent copies of the images to the models, and the models have been happy. I like making the models happy. For me, that's enough to call the effort worthwhile. That the real value of my images may be less because half a dozen other people have shot the same image or maybe a better or worse version of the same image doesn't take away my satisfaction. I don't take your comments as a put-down for my enjoying these events, but I sometimes wonder whether professional models and photographers understand why people like me genuinely enjoy the workshops.
The other interesting challenge of the workshops is arriving at a location without knowing the location or the models and trying to evaluate everything and get good images within two hours. Sometimes, I hate what I produce from those efforts. Sometimes, I feel that I didn't evaluate the scene very well. Sometimes, I feel that I didn't evaluate the model well and find a way to make a good image of her/him. On the other hand, there is a certain satisfaction in feeling that "I came. I saw. I conquered."
I've done one shoot where I was the only photographer and the model was the only model and we shot in a hotel room. She had some clothing that a designer had made for her and needed a photographer to take pictures of her wearing the clothing. This was another of those impromptu shoots where we couldn't do much planning ahead of time. On top of that, the clothing was more along the lines of high fashion which isn't my strength. I still enjoyed the challenge, and I think she was pleased enough with the results.
In most of my one-on-one shooting, I've sent the model long emails telling her what the setup would be and what I was trying to achieve. We would email back and forth a little bit if she had questions. I wanted her to arrive with a very good idea of what was going to happen, where it was going to happen, and how it was going to happen. If I felt that these communications were good and we had shared a vision, I haven't felt the need to do a great deal of directing during the shoot. I've told myself that letting each model interpret a bit within the vision keeps me from having one shoot repeated a dozen times with different faces and bodies while still just being one shoot. In working with experienced travel models, this seems to work pretty well. That I sometimes stutter a little bit also means that I'm not struggling with trying to talk while I'm trying to shoot.
For me, much of what makes a great experienced model is that she can read my description of what I'm trying to do and how I'm trying to do it and get something close to my vision. She'll have her own ideas on how to interpret that vision, but we're working from similar interpretations of the vision.
For an inexperienced model, much of what makes a great model is a playfulness about the idea that we're trying to shoot. She may not know exactly how to pose or know her angles. I may not pick up on those things all that well while we are shooting. However, she's happy to try things in the moment. We can talk a little bit to get a vision together, and then I can shoot while she interprets the concept. I can see things and ask her to try what she's doing a little differently, and she is happy to try what I suggest.
When I was in grad school the first time, I did photography of people in my church fellowship group. At the time, I remember thinking that my camera (shooting Kodachrome slide film) often caught people's self-images as much as their actual images. I wasn't shooting people who were models in any sense of the word. I was shooting just regular people. However, I noticed that some women who just seemed to have a good self-image would look good in almost every slide. Some women who seemed very beautiful just didn't seem to look as good in the slides. From other conversations, I sometimes had a sense of self-image issues, and some of them would tell me directly about these issues. I sometimes think that part of being a good model is just having a self-image that allows someone not to feel down on herself or even himself if the image just doesn't quite work.
STAND UP AND PREACH! Been following you for a solid min, but this stuff is LEGIT good advice. This is the stuff I teach to the local workshops around me and can second, third, and forth this comment. I wish I could like this more than once.
I've only photographed a nude woman once (it went very well though it stressed me for part of the session), but I have attended many life drawing classes at various art schools. I noticed that when certain models were in the class _everybody_ drew better pictures. At many classes there was a break half way through, and some models left for the canteen without even looking at the pictures that had been drawn by the students. Weird. All the models that were the most inspiring however, took a keen interest in looking around, they really wanted to see every picture.
There are a lot of things that make a great model but one thing that really helps is when _they are genuinely interested_ in what's going on, not just there to earn some cash.
Here's my beef with shooting "models". I've spent years learning about photography, lighting, and retouching. If someone wants to be a model I think they should make the effort to learn a little bit about posing. There are plenty of resources available for free, after all, that's how I learned to pose models and people for portraits.
Joe, you constantly preach the do not ask your models to smile, and I understand your comments. Why do you have smile tattooed onto your first finger on your right hand?
Just to say as well, I love your well reasoned comments so much.
Editing to add, every one of the photos of the presenters, in NC, except for the lawyer follows your guidline of if it bends - bend it.
So that I don't have to ask! 🤣. Just kidding. It is simply a funny conversation piece.
@@theJoeEdelman Always loved the tat, and so appropriate for a photographer. It did take me a few close watches to see what it was, and on your finger that presses the trigger.
It did make me smile.