Joe, I've been photographing since the early 70s myself, and I was rather surprised myself in the early 2000s hearing about the "exposure triangle." Of course, for film, our working exposure practice in the field was to adjust either aperture or shutter speed because the film speed was "fixed" unless you had an interchangeable back or film pack. Even with an interchangeable back or film pack, we didn't usually change out the film _just to get a different film speed_ because different film speeds came with a host of other different film characteristics. So, as a practical matter, we didn't have an "exposure triangle" to actually work with while taking pictures. But with digital, changing the ISO (gain) was possible with the twist of a knob or the press of a button, so it became a practical part of exposure setting on the camera. My theory had been that's how and why people began teaching an "exposure triangle" in the digital age. But thank you, Joe, for actual references. What I did come to understand in just the last few years, and it took me a "minute," that digital camera ISO is _the_ go-to change to make when I've already selected shutter speed for purpose and aperture for feeling. That kinda took some doing for an old film dog. Using auto ISO as you recommend is something I discovered only this year.
Joe, thanks a lot for your brilliant work, the material on exposure, your show and teaching style are priceless. I got into photography just a few months ago (at 38) and after studying the photography basics came to the same cinclusions as you present. Firstly, Aperture, SS and ISO are separate settings with each having a specific purpose and the exposure triangle doesn't help much, at best it is a decent model to show the interconnectedness of the three values. Secondly, one can use exp.compensation with auto ISO, exactly as you said. These made sense to me, however, no-one seemed to do it that way. That was the issue until I found your take on exposure. Thanks agait, keep it up!
Well, that explains why I have never been able to understand the “exposure triangle”! It’s a “formula” I need as a starting point. This lesson is very valuable! As a mostly people photographer, the hardest thing by far for me to shoot and get to look like I see it in person, is my Christmas tree. I’ve tried everything. I use LED lights and manually set my Sony a7-4 etc… Night time inside brightly lit trees are the hardest. I know shooting trees isn’t that important but everyone is showing off their trees on Instagram and they’re either too dark, too bright or too something something. Although many camera phones seem to make it easier to get those shots. I’d love a whole show on getting an accurate what you see in person shot of Christmas trees. Might be too long and complicated though. Please keep coming back to exposure teaching. I need it. I will say now that I’ve learned the value of manual shooting.
Joe, As usual I immensely enjoyed this video. I watched your video about an hour after it aired, and I am now glad that I waited until the very end as Dave's comment about the A/SS/ISO chart beat me to the punch. Actually, NO! I wish I had watched it live and sent my concern in before Dave. Keep up the FABULOUS work! Rich Duzzi
We had it easier in one way back in the film days: The full aperture and shutter scales were right in front of us on the camera or lens barrel, click one, click the other. On some cameras, you could just grab the lens barrel and change both of them at once. I think it's harder to grasp when looking at only the current numbers on an LCD.
I admire your passion for helping people to achieve a good understanding of photography technique. I’m kind of on the fence about the exposure ‘triangle’. I think the use of that word is largely down to an instinctive grouping of three things. If you add exposure compensation, it could just as easily have been called the exposure square. For me, it has only ever pointed me towards the potential relationship between those settings when it comes to the overall exposure effect. Nothing more than that. I have always chosen shutter speed and aperture with purpose, using ISO to make up the difference, so to speak. Modern day cameras make the auto ISO thing so much more viable. I used a Leica Q on auto ISO during a wedding shoot which performed beautifully.
Hey Joel! I stink at commenting and interacting on these things. I'm trying to get better:) I just wanted to pop in here to say your advice on Auto ISO has been game changing for me with available light for me. I have some personal work to do with muscle memory and whatnot, but it gamechanging nonetheless. Thank you for this!
Yeah agree 100%. Just tought my nephew how to setup a cam (a6000)/shoot and yes - ISO on auto basicly (tho with RAW Zebras,I adjust the brightness in post). Most important part is the shutter speed. Aperture is pure subjective. But he is learning already, realised why you need faster lenses than F4 😉while trying to get some shots in a darker environment. Merry Xmas from Vienna Joe
Smoke/fog machines are usually suspending liquid particles such as mineral oil or glycerol rather than creating carbonaceous matter from actual burning.
I'll lay the first comment down and add to the algorithm and because these topics are near and dear to my thought processes. I, for one, came into the game (of photography) about 5 years ago without any preconceptions. Back then, I learned ISO as gain, volume (if we were dealing with sound), that did not add to exposure, just brighten it in "post production" if you will. I can not begin to tell you the push back and nasty comments I got from an instructor (still teaching) on one of the photography store channels (starts with an A....yes, my thoughts as well). Suffice it to say, that when I question why he was teaching an exposure triangle - because ISO was not part of exposure, his response was "That's why I'm a professional photography working for a living, and you're not!". A bit harsh to be sure. Second, and early on, and especially since I shoot a lot of wildlife and sports, I adopted Auto-ISO using EC to adjust on the fly. It's just the way I found most useful for me. I received pushback from several local photographers in the game much longer than I, who said "I always set my ISO". At the time, I thought I would get better at picking one, like it's an ISO 600 day, but that didn't happen. Sure, I can now estimate where my ISO is going to fall, but I find - MOST OF THE TIME - that shooting in auto-ISO is beneficial when in changing light. So let me ask you a question, Joe, because this was enough blabber agreeing with you and happy to get some support for the process. I pass your videos around my community and they've been a hit. Last thing: Is the smoke non-toxic? P.S. Caught the ISO reveeral as well, (like the monkey with the girls and basketballs), but glad Dave mentioned it. I was going to ask you about all manual settings and a strobe set with TTL and using EC as useful, but you sort of answered that at the end. Since I just picked up my first strobe (on sale) AD 300, it's practice time!
Hello Joe, Jose from Puerto Rico. I enjoyed this video. So basically what you saying, and please correct me if I'm wrong, from what I understood is setting my camera in M mode, select my shutter speed first to whatever I think would be necessary, then set the aperture to whatever I think should be get me the effect I want and let auto ISO do the heavy lifting? Or use shutter priority and not worry to much about aperture, since auto ISO would take care of that? Thanks again.
Well said joe i never agreed with this saying the expos triangle there was no such thing in the days of film, you had a range of different ASA film speeds and most ranges from 25 ASA to 800 ASA sometimes we used to push films to the next range and alter the processing the film to compensate . The only thing that i just cant get used to or understand is this to me a daft saying is Shutter drag. To me there is no such thing shutter speed is what you set it to be it doesn't start out at 1/8 then by magic it stretches to 1 sec,. this is just as bad as the saying exposure triangle. Joe i think that this video clears up a wrong impression. of how to set your settings in the camera for what you need to get the results that you require
This is one of the best videos about photography on the internet. PERIOD. (Thank you :))
Joe, I've been photographing since the early 70s myself, and I was rather surprised myself in the early 2000s hearing about the "exposure triangle." Of course, for film, our working exposure practice in the field was to adjust either aperture or shutter speed because the film speed was "fixed" unless you had an interchangeable back or film pack. Even with an interchangeable back or film pack, we didn't usually change out the film _just to get a different film speed_ because different film speeds came with a host of other different film characteristics. So, as a practical matter, we didn't have an "exposure triangle" to actually work with while taking pictures. But with digital, changing the ISO (gain) was possible with the twist of a knob or the press of a button, so it became a practical part of exposure setting on the camera. My theory had been that's how and why people began teaching an "exposure triangle" in the digital age. But thank you, Joe, for actual references.
What I did come to understand in just the last few years, and it took me a "minute," that digital camera ISO is _the_ go-to change to make when I've already selected shutter speed for purpose and aperture for feeling. That kinda took some doing for an old film dog. Using auto ISO as you recommend is something I discovered only this year.
I've tried this and now I am a BELIEVER!
one of the best you tube photography channel ever ... facts .
Hi, From Buffalo. Looking forward to practicing this weekend!
Joe, thanks a lot for your brilliant work, the material on exposure, your show and teaching style are priceless.
I got into photography just a few months ago (at 38) and after studying the photography basics came to the same cinclusions as you present. Firstly, Aperture, SS and ISO are separate settings with each having a specific purpose and the exposure triangle doesn't help much, at best it is a decent model to show the interconnectedness of the three values. Secondly, one can use exp.compensation with auto ISO, exactly as you said.
These made sense to me, however, no-one seemed to do it that way. That was the issue until I found your take on exposure.
Thanks agait, keep it up!
Well, that explains why I have never been able to understand the “exposure triangle”! It’s a “formula” I need as a starting point. This lesson is very valuable!
As a mostly people photographer, the hardest thing by far for me to shoot and get to look like I see it in person, is my Christmas tree. I’ve tried everything. I use LED lights and manually set my Sony a7-4 etc… Night time inside brightly lit trees are the hardest. I know shooting trees isn’t that important but everyone is showing off their trees on Instagram and they’re either too dark, too bright or too something something. Although many camera phones seem to make it easier to get those shots. I’d love a whole show on getting an accurate what you see in person shot of Christmas trees. Might be too long and complicated though. Please keep coming back to exposure teaching. I need it. I will say now that I’ve learned the value of manual shooting.
Great episode! Charles from Brandywine MD
,,,love the play on words re: memory cards.
Thanks Joe! 👍
Joe,
As usual I immensely enjoyed this video. I watched your video about an hour after it aired, and I am now glad that I waited until the very end as Dave's comment about the A/SS/ISO chart beat me to the punch. Actually, NO! I wish I had watched it live and sent my concern in before Dave.
Keep up the FABULOUS work!
Rich Duzzi
We had it easier in one way back in the film days: The full aperture and shutter scales were right in front of us on the camera or lens barrel, click one, click the other. On some cameras, you could just grab the lens barrel and change both of them at once. I think it's harder to grasp when looking at only the current numbers on an LCD.
Big fan from Jakarta - Indonesia. Toni
I admire your passion for helping people to achieve a good understanding of photography technique. I’m kind of on the fence about the exposure ‘triangle’. I think the use of that word is largely down to an instinctive grouping of three things. If you add exposure compensation, it could just as easily have been called the exposure square. For me, it has only ever pointed me towards the potential relationship between those settings when it comes to the overall exposure effect. Nothing more than that. I have always chosen shutter speed and aperture with purpose, using ISO to make up the difference, so to speak. Modern day cameras make the auto ISO thing so much more viable. I used a Leica Q on auto ISO during a wedding shoot which performed beautifully.
@davidmorgan1798 - www.joeedelman.com/what-the-exposure-triangle-and-brooklyn-bridge-have-in-common
Hey Joel! I stink at commenting and interacting on these things. I'm trying to get better:)
I just wanted to pop in here to say your advice on Auto ISO has been game changing for me with available light for me. I have some personal work to do with muscle memory and whatnot, but it gamechanging nonetheless. Thank you for this!
Yeah agree 100%. Just tought my nephew how to setup a cam (a6000)/shoot and yes - ISO on auto basicly (tho with RAW Zebras,I adjust the brightness in post). Most important part is the shutter speed. Aperture is pure subjective. But he is learning already, realised why you need faster lenses than F4 😉while trying to get some shots in a darker environment. Merry Xmas from Vienna Joe
Smoke/fog machines are usually suspending liquid particles such as mineral oil or glycerol rather than creating carbonaceous matter from actual burning.
I'll lay the first comment down and add to the algorithm and because these topics are near and dear to my thought processes. I, for one, came into the game (of photography) about 5 years ago without any preconceptions. Back then, I learned ISO as gain, volume (if we were dealing with sound), that did not add to exposure, just brighten it in "post production" if you will. I can not begin to tell you the push back and nasty comments I got from an instructor (still teaching) on one of the photography store channels (starts with an A....yes, my thoughts as well). Suffice it to say, that when I question why he was teaching an exposure triangle - because ISO was not part of exposure, his response was "That's why I'm a professional photography working for a living, and you're not!". A bit harsh to be sure. Second, and early on, and especially since I shoot a lot of wildlife and sports, I adopted Auto-ISO using EC to adjust on the fly. It's just the way I found most useful for me. I received pushback from several local photographers in the game much longer than I, who said "I always set my ISO". At the time, I thought I would get better at picking one, like it's an ISO 600 day, but that didn't happen. Sure, I can now estimate where my ISO is going to fall, but I find - MOST OF THE TIME - that shooting in auto-ISO is beneficial when in changing light. So let me ask you a question, Joe, because this was enough blabber agreeing with you and happy to get some support for the process. I pass your videos around my community and they've been a hit. Last thing: Is the smoke non-toxic? P.S. Caught the ISO reveeral as well, (like the monkey with the girls and basketballs), but glad Dave mentioned it. I was going to ask you about all manual settings and a strobe set with TTL and using EC as useful, but you sort of answered that at the end. Since I just picked up my first strobe (on sale) AD 300, it's practice time!
Hello Joe, Jose from Puerto Rico. I enjoyed this video. So basically what you saying, and please correct me if I'm wrong, from what I understood is setting my camera in M mode, select my shutter speed first to whatever I think would be necessary, then set the aperture to whatever I think should be get me the effect I want and let auto ISO do the heavy lifting? Or use shutter priority and not worry to much about aperture, since auto ISO would take care of that? Thanks again.
Well said joe i never agreed with this saying the expos triangle there was no such thing in the days of film, you had a range of different ASA film speeds and most ranges from 25 ASA to 800 ASA sometimes we used to push films to the next range and alter the processing the film to compensate . The only thing that i just cant get used to or understand is this to me a daft saying is Shutter drag. To me there is no such thing shutter speed is what you set it to be it doesn't start out at 1/8 then by magic it stretches to 1 sec,. this is just as bad as the saying exposure triangle. Joe i think that this video clears up a wrong impression. of how to set your settings in the camera for what you need to get the results that you require