The Most Controversial T.Rex Theory Of All Time? - Jurassic Park History
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- Опубліковано 5 жов 2024
- The history of the Jurassic Park movies goes together with paleontology. And after 1993 a controversial theory of T.rex being a scavenger started to question the king of the dinosaurs status. The debate even lead to someone getting eaten in The Lost World ironically enough, as well as the Spinosaurus battle from JP3.
#JurassicPark #Dinosaurs #Paleontology
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I love the WWE references. That’s what Dino fandom seems like to me, a good portion of the time.
If they aren’t critiquing every dinosaur portrayal in existence based on “evolving truth”, they’re pitting themselves against each other in these WWE-style promos, as if they were Paul Hayman promoting their combatant.
no biggest t rex NOOOB NOOOB y GIGAS WINS WORD WORD
t rex badd bad
@@rodrigoestebanquierofiguer9658 Goo Ga Ga 🤡
@@rodrigoestebanquierofiguer9658 You know, you just sound like a child when you type random stuff like you're the Hulk "T-REX BAD! T-REX GET KILLED BY GIGA!"
@@YSL8704 you sick sick hahahahhaha chidlre noob hahahaa
Firm belief that T-Rex was very much a hunter, but would never pass up a free dead meal if it ever came across it.
Humans are scavengers now we don't hunt unless for sport (you don't depend on your deer to survive its just extra food) so it's for sport why hold it against the Rex it will eat when it can.
And it would have to defend its meal too.
Saves energy
This is the most reasonable conclusion from the current data and I don’t know why more people don’t discuss that as an option lol.
Yeah that's how I've always seen the T-Rex as a hunter that wouldn't pass up a free meal
My personal theory is that t-rexes are like bears, and they have some similarities both are large terrestrial predators with absolutely amazing senses of smell, and I image they could have similar eating habits IE anything that’s edible but I do think it was a hunter cause strongest bite force and monstrous size you don’t get that from just going for carcasses.
Any predator will hunt or scavenge depending on what the food is like in the area. It wastes less energy for a predator to eat a carcass as apposed to wasting energy hunting something.
Also it seems like both Bears and T. Rexes have good stamina and can keep up a decently fast walk or jog for long distances without tiring out, both of them are also probably capable of having a pretty fast burst of speed but only for short distances, as seen with Grizzly Bears, allowing them to catch up to their prey by draining the preys stamina, and they both seem to be not very well adapted for ambushing, with the exception of the Polar Bear of course, I suppose T. Rex would also be able to sometimes ambush its prey, since I’ve seen bears rely on a ambush strategy as well, so it’s still possible T. Rex could’ve relied ambush if it wanted to, but it seems like it would’ve relied more on pursuit predation. I imagine T. Rex would’ve used a different hunting strategy depending on the animal it was hunting, like using pursuit predation to catch an Edmontosaurus or if it was desperate enough, maybe even an Ornithomimus, Anzu, Pachycephalosaurus, Thescelosaurus and Dakotaraptor, and using ambush predation on a Triceratops or an Ankylosaurus, and in the North Horn Formation it might’ve used ambush to attack an Alamosaurus or a Quetzalcoatlus caught off guard before it could fly away.
Doesn't its size immediately make it being a scavenger very unlikely? Scavengers are generally smaller animals, with the dedicated predators being larger than that.
@@williamparcell9197 not exactly sharks will scavenge off of dead animal carcasses as well. Sharks like hammerheads and tiger sharks are sometimes large in size, yet they still scavenge for food off of dead animals. But your right that scavenger animals are usually smaller. But in general predators are not picky, they will eat whatever they can find to survive.
Both have cuddly dolls n I love wm! ❤
I believe that T-Rex was mostly a hunter, scavenging from time to time, like modern predators do today. But bear this in mind, predators fail more often than they succeed, and I doubt even T-Rex was an exception to that statistic.
Young T. rexes were almost certainly cursorial hunters. Old T. rex most likely bullied other hunters off their prey, including younger T .rexes.
That's a good point and true.
Cats: “Observe.”
@@nickkorkodylas5005 The only other theropods Tyrannosaurus lived alongside were dromaeosaurs. They weren't hunting the hadrosaurs or armored dinosaurs Rex fed on. There was no other top predator to kill the prey Rex needed to survive. If Rex wasn't killing them, nothing was.
@@GoGojiraGo Has anybody given any thought to large crocodilians being a suitable apex predator to steal from?
(that and, of course, Rexes eating sea turtles during the egg laying season? )
The scavenger theory feels almost nostalgic in a way, takes me back to being a kid in the early 2000s devouring every bit of info on dinosaurs at the time. In the UK, Horizon dedicated a whole episode to the debate and it seemed like being a scavenger, at least in part, was here to stay. Most carnivores are opportunists; and lions would steal hyena kills they encounter. It's jaws and teeth were like armour-piercing rounds to a tank-like Triceratops, and could serverely injure an Ankylosaurus. If the largest carnivore of Hell Creek was just a scavenger, then where's the bona fide top predator?
That's exactly what the top predator would say. Get 'em boys!
A triceratops could easily hold its own against a rex lol that’s very well known …
@@julianmitchell5776 Yes. I know.
What's interesting is there really doesn't seem to be any competition for large predator in that environment. It's just the T-Rex. And the next size down predator niche was... Also the T-Rex apparently, with Juviniles taking that role.
@@brettwood1351 T- rex was just too large to depend on other animals kills, it eould have been forced to find and kill animals and it doesn't have the build and endurance to tire it's prey down. It would need to ambush it's prey down most of the time.
The most compelling evidence I know of that tyrannosaurus hunted its prey is that one edmontosaurus fossil. The bone was healing from a T. rex bite, meaning a T. rex attacked a living edmontosaurus.
It's is some extremely strong evidence that Tyrannosaurus did actively hunt.
Not to mention the bite marks left on the frills of Triceratops that had healed over. Which showed that Tryrannosaurus Rex more than likely sought them out when on the hunt.
Edmontosaurus was sleeping. Trex thought it was dead. Edmonto woke up and ran off. Trex sad.
That's what happened. Trust me bro. I was there.
@@elmohead So you have access to a time machine. On an unrelated note, where exactly are you located? No particular reason, just curious.
@@richardmaurer9174 yes I have a time machine. I live in the worst place on earth: your mind.
I had a science teacher that loved Jack Horner and I'd get into arguments with her almost weekly. One time I told her, "trex is so damn massive how many carcasses do you think it would need to eat to survive?"
she said, "well your fat and you don't have any trouble finding cheeseburgers, do ya?"
I still get a little angry thinking about that.
Damn, that's what you call unprofessional.
😂😭🤣
And then everyone clapped, and you woke up.
Go get yourself a double n calm down lol
Your teacher was savage and a true legend.
If i remember right, in one documentary Jack Horner admited he had a bit of a grudge with T-Rexes because he wanted to find duckbill fossils but found Rexes instead.
Imagine being so dumb u start false claims that shatter at first glance cuz u didn't find what bone u wanted XD
Then after that he went to find the magic star to wish for all the magic in the world
Who says the rex didn't kill the Parasaurolophus in JPIII, that's what I always assumed. Ironically, they portrayed it's scavenging behavior in Dominion as well with the deer. Any large predator is an opportunist when given the opportunity, as scavenging reduces injury and energy expenditure.
I'm the same when offered free food.
_any predator_ is an opportunist. The simple fact is, if something finds free food or an easy kill, it's _going to take it._
@@GanonGhidorah
the difference is that T- rex was way too big to rely on other predators kills. Since paleontologists tells us that there wasn't much competition for top predator T-rex would have needed to chase down it's prey most of the time.
@@Betuor I can relate to that
@@gustaf3811
Which is why I find the entire theory so ridiculous. Yes, T-Rex could scavenge, or bully other predators out of their kills. But that would be rare and far-between.
The idea that Horner wanted to convince the world that an animal that large could ONLY survive by doing that, is nonsensical.
My initial comment is more along the lines of how pointless it is to draw attention to an animal scavenging food...because _literally every animal on the planet does it._ Even herbivorous or omnivorous creatures will scavenge something if it looks tasty enough. And I am convinced, that there is not one predator on this planet that does not fall into the "ambush predator" category - because it's kind of hard to take down prey without the element of surprise. Hence, everything is an _opportunist._ If a situation presents itself, a living-breathing animal will take-it, if not investigate it.
Never forget...most people see hyenas as scavengers yet they're some of the best hunters on the savannah.
with super powerful bite forces
Well technically they are not really hunting in the same way at all.
Swarming their prey with greater numbers. They tire out their prey by giving it small bites than retreating.
So they aren't ambush predators unlike Lions, Leopards and cheetahs that rely on their hunting and overpowering their prey.
@@gustaf3811they are are still hunting............................
True, biologists first thought hyenas weren't able to make kills on large animals so they would depend on lions to make the kill then they would bully them and take their kill, scientist thought this because every morning they would see hyenas bothering lions to trying to take their kill. The truth was that the hyenas would make the kill at night, the lions would take over the kill and by morning the hyenas were actually just trying to take their kill back.
True but there's also tasmanan devils who are almost exclusively carrion eaters who also have among the strongest bite forces for their size.
Jack Horner had such a bizarre and weird hate for the T-Rex that I never understood. It’s a large carnivore, it should’ve been pretty common sense to assume it would’ve hunted when it saw prime opportunities, and scavenged when it saw a carcass.
He’s the origin of the result for the infamous fight scene lol
Horner has never been my favorite, and though I disagree with him on this issue, I still take his opinion into account...
It also seems unrealistic to me that a massive carnivore could survive mostly or exclusively on scavenging. There may be a few instances of that such as species of sharks consuming deceased whales & fish but there are literally trillions of fish in the ocean as opposed to millions of land animals. The odds that a T. Rex stumbled onto a dead meal often enough to maintain energy for it's massive frame, not even counting the amount that it would take to sustain an entire species of said-carnivore and it's relatives stretching across a couple continents, is simply impossible in my eyes.
I get that Jack Horner is a renowned paleontologist and I have lots of respect for his dedication to the field, but I also think that he isn't the biggest fan of the T. Rex at the same time. Maybe Jack just likes to troll individuals who possess a pop cultural favoritism towards the Rex? I dunno.
Jack Horner is the leading proponent that the Velociraptor is cool and the chicken is not.
Horner's theory consistently got his name in the paper and on TV, which I think was his primary goal. Horner had a rivalry with Robert Bakker, and since Bakker got famous with his "Dinosaurs were warm-blooded" theory, Horner came up his own controversial theory to get publicity. The difference being that Bakker's theory has been mostly proven correct, while Horner's was just unrealistic nonsense.
Got to love Dr Baker’s sense of humor when his likeness was eating by the Rex and told Horner, told ya so
I love how Klayton is broadening out to paleontology instead of just Jurassic Park. What makes these videos so great is how it does not complain about accuracy, and talks about why we simply like dinosaurs. Just how each dinosaur each unique and cool and we don’t need to fight over what they were like.
“We don’t need to fight over what they were like” is so dumb and is exactly what this is about. “What they were like” is QUITE LITERALLY what palaeontology is. No one gets mad about what these animals actually were all those years ago, except people who don’t know anything about them and don’t realise that learning about them doesn’t ruin cool designs on TV. You can enjoy both!
@@reubenc0039 Agreed. I used have a visceral hate for Spino in JP3 cuz of the dumb T rex kill. Now I just have a laugh at it since that's last part it actually has any semblance of a real life animal. After that it turns to an oversized slasher film villain chasing after the human cast for a dumb reason and at best getting the caloric equivalent of a few kit kat bars while burning hundreds upon hundreds of thousands of calories.
I think my issue with this theory is that the T-Rex isn’t exactly a compact or particularly efficiently built animal. Something that size and build is going to need a hefty amount of food each day just to keep going. I’m not sure that would be viable for a scavenger.
It was probably both a scavenger and hunter. Most carnivores are. You see lions taking kills from leopards and hyenas all the time
@@sdaftermath123 That's a bit of an exaggeration, lions actually hunt more often then not. They are forced to take prey from other predators at times but generally not as often.
@@gustaf3811 they’re not “forced” to take kills from other carnivores, they do it cus they can. Why hunt if you can just grab a free meal?
@@sdaftermath123 predator animals also NEED to hunt. Sure they'll take a free meal, but they get high off the kill. Get an outdoor cat and then after a few weeks of cleaning up corpses brought to your door tell me a cat goes scavenging more than hunting.
It's not viable. That's why his "theory", which was actually a hypothesis since he had no way to test it, was criticized almost immediately and so harshly.
Jack Horner is considered a bit of a hack now a days for a reason
Remember he also insisted the spinosaurus was the real apex predator when even at the time it was believed it was likely a fish eater
He also suggested having it snap the trexs neck despite having a fraction of the neck and jaw strength that the trex had
Horner's a bit of a 'perv' too.
Now, now, no ad hominin.
@@hollyingraham3980 don't worry, I wont. Didn't he kind of get caught, as 70 year old guy, messin' 'round with a 20 year old student?
He was the sole advisor in 1 and 3 , tells you everything
Technically everyone who has made any Jurassic movie has failed to show the rex was the real apex. Spino and giga are both stronger in the franchise even though irl they’d both get killed by the rex fairly easy.
7:16, that was brutal! The sound of crushed bone just sends shivers down my spine!😱🤢🤮
3:45, that's right, it hunted a Gallimimus, then the raptors. It ate Gennero because he moved slightly as the Rex had poor eyesight, and unknowingly saved Grant and the kids in the Visitor Center.
I always thought that it hunted the raptors was because it considered them a threat
I always find that scene hilarious in hindsight now that we know Trex had very good eyesight, as well as a phenomenal sense of smell
Trex had binocular vision and it's vision was probably as good if not better than the raptors vision was. This is just another one of the Jurassic Park made up nonsense that a lot of people believe thanks to the movies.
Don't get me wrong I love watching these movies but hate how they get so much wrong.
@brink wolf the book actually states the poor eye sight was due to a mess up in the cloning process
This argument is similar to another theropod controversy. Saying that Tyrannosaurus is only a "scavenger" is like saying Spinosaurus is only a piscivore. Creatures of that size need a lot to sustain their mass. Just to clear something up, Horner never said Tyrannosaurus was *primarily* a scavenger. Research showed that T. rex and its siblings devoted large portions of their brains to processing smell. It is the reason why Tyrannosaurus had such a large brain and is used as a main tool. You pair this up with studies suggesting how incredibly slow (Van Bijlert et al 2021 suggests 3 to 4mph for brisk walking) their locomotion movements are and it'll be no surprise why paleontologists drew this conclusion. A hunter needs speed. Sure Triceratops and Ankylosaurus were slow but they were dangerous and in herds. Hadrosaurs are faster. Some people bring up the supposedly healed bite marks on a specimen but we don't know if this was from a juvenile or not. Most likely so as it got away.
Luckily pack hunting is theorized for Tyrannosaurus as they went after injured or sick herbivores. The juvenile Tyrannosaurus were more likely to hunt since they were relatively faster compared to their adults as mentioned by Holtz 2021 et al study.
A thing to note about the running speed was it’s nearly equally sized big prey: trikes, sauropods, and hadrosaurs.
They probably couldn’t run at great speeds either. The Rex just needed to be mildly faster. It being a “I don’t gotta outrun it, I just gotta outrun you” type of deal. How that world was far bigger vs. our modern world and faster (and smaller) animals.
It also would’ve hunted Ankylosaurus which were likely slower than T. Rex, Alamosaurus was likely slower as well, with Anky being slightly faster than Alamo, Triceratops and Edmontosaurus on the other hand were likely more equal in terms of running speed with T. Rex, with Trike being a bit slower than Edmonto most likely, but with Edmontosaurus in particular it’s been hypothesized to be able to gallop at 28 mph, so maybe T. Rex could reach this speed or at least close to this speed too.
@@Azureblue25 A full grown Alamosaurus would have been practically immune from predation. And even if T. rex was slower than the other prey animals doesn't really matter much. Lots of highly successful predators couldn't outrun their prey in a straight up race, they employed other tactics like ambushing. Take into account that T. rex probably preferred to eat prey that was already dying in some way.
@@Azureblue25 T- rex probably was an ambush predator, so it crashing out of a nearby forest is the best depiction of them hunting.
They would certainly outrun edmonto on short distances and T-rex probably could accelerate faster.
Another example that comes to my mind when you mentioned the in-universe callbacks and jokes on the scavenger theory is how rexy tried to eat a dead deer before losing it to giga in the fight.
Oh totally! That was the newest one. I actually like that little opportunistic scene
Another I like about that scene is that the giga and rex don’t kill each other. Instead they have a little scuffle or maybe some territorial behavior.
A real Rex would have smelled the Giga long before the Giga spotted the Rex. Having a smell like that must be a super power.
@@mcqueenfanman According to The Lost World it's sense of smell is second only the the Turkey Vulture. And in real life, it probably had very good eyesight at long range. Which could play major parts of it's feeding strategy, as it would help it find carcass, sick prey, and spot the target before they spot it.
00:45, oh yeah, I heard about this!
After the release of the movie, Bob Bakker tells Jack Horner, "See!? I told you T. Rex was a hunter!" Lol!!
Well, look at animals that are considered scavengers and look at their teeth. Now, look at Rex teeth. Notice something different? Rex teeth are bladed on one side and curved backward, both traits of a hunter, not a scavenger. Scavenger teeth are more of a conical shape and are straight or are oblong with blade like edges on both sides for ease of cutting without the need to subdued pray but instead just to rip pieces of flesh from a static carcass.
When you say it like that, I remember that Spinosaurus has conical and straight teeth, I wonder if although Spinosaurus was specialized for hunting fish in a similar style to a heron, maybe another significant portion of its diet would’ve been already dead dinosaurs or other kinds of animals, maybe it would’ve scavenged more often than even T. Rex? As well as other Spinosaurids for that matter like Baryonyx and Suchomimus. I like how it’s ironic that JP3 shows the T. Rex scavenging in an attempt to portray T. Rex as an animal that only scavenged because of Jack Horner, when it would’ve been the Spino that would’ve likely scavenged most often.
Exactly. Common sense Science and observation of nature wins again
The bite force thing always made me think of hyenas, extreme bite force in the combo of crushing force and being able to chase/fight off other large predators from their kills along with being able to make it's own kills.
Love the old WWF clip of Goldust and Ultimate Warrior. 🤣🤣🤣🤣
So if T.Rex is Ultimate Warrior, Giga is Goldust, then which dinosaurs would be Macho Man, Ric Flair, and Hulk Hogan?
@@eeziumMacho Man is definitely a Velociraptor 😂 Also my favorite wrestler!
This is about the trex not some lousy wrestling match
@@eezium Savage would be the Raptor, Flair would be the Diloposarus and Hogan would be the Mosasaur.
@@Tiffany-eo6ih That's fine if you're here just for that...But please be respectful and don't diss our stuff.
Thank you and enjoy the rest of your day, ma'am.
I wonder if there was even a single predatory dinosaur that would NOT eat a carcass if it came across one.
That....sounds like a huge waste of free, life saving calories.
I think you need to look at living big predators for that. Some wont go after certain remains if the remains have rotted to the point of being dangerous. Otherwise, its free food.
@@samuelazzaro Exactly. Even Lions eat carcasses if they're still relatively "fresh" so why wouldn't dinosaurs? Not just T.rex, but all theropods.
Imagine a rematch between the T-Rex and Spino and with one well placed bite at the neck it clips the head off the Spinosaurus like a flower?Or at the very least the T-Rex tears out the Spino’s throat, severs the tongue, causes extreme hemorrhaging and is basically the most visceral kill in the JP franchise? This is an animal that was capable of biting through bone and even had strong enough teeth and jaws to eat the bones. So if it could bring down an animal as large as an edmontosaurus in one bite, it would usually eat the whole carcass too
There was a really good documentary I watched (I will try to find it) where they found a fossil of an herbivore that had a t-rex tooth embedded in one of its bones. The thing is, the bone had grown over the tooth that the t-rex had lost, which meant that the animal was alive AFTER it was bitten. The rex had to have bitten it while it was still living and the only way that could happen is if the rex was trying to kill it, ie. hunting. 😀 It was a neat documentary (or it may have been a lecture, I really will try to find that video). So, the evidence points to it having been a predator, but all carnivores will generally scavenge as well. If they don't have to waste the energy needed to bring an animal down and can just eat something that someone else spent energy bringing down, you're going to take the free meal. They are opportunists. So, I guess the answer is...both. 😊
I could be wrong but that sounds like it was from the old PBS series called The Dinosaurs. I remember seeing the same thing, but I can't really place it either.
You could be thinking of The Truth About Killer Dinosaurs. It was kind of a 'mythbusters with dinos' deal.
The reason Jack started his scavenger theory is because he found eight Tyrannosaurus individuals in two years while looking for his true waifus, hadrosaurs. This made him so upset he lashed out at T. rex for years with this theory. Anyone with a brain can understand it's impossible for T. rex to survive as a pure scavenger.
So what you’re telling me that I can be more of a paleontologist than Jack without a degree?
I still think that's just an excuse by Horner and his real reason is that he got a lot publicity out of his dumb theory. There are countless newspaper articles and TV news pieces titled some variation of "Scientist believes T-Rex was just a lowly scavenger", with Horner's name mentioned all over the place.
@@richardmaurer9174 That too, the man is pretty full of himself.
1:48 mission failed successfully
I agree with this. From JP 3 to JP6, they haven’t taken the T. rex seriously like they did with the very 1st and 2nd. Every time we see the bull rex and rexy fighting another apex predator, they treat it then like they’re punching bags. We all know the rex has intelligence for combat. May not have the speed, but they do have the strength and agility to take down anything. Even their own bite force is strong enough to take down large prey, like the triceratops, ankylosaur, hadrosaurs, and possibly sauropods. It’s time they take the rex serious in future movies, if they will announce it soon since this is the 30th anniversary for the franchise
i don't think it's a matter of taking the rex seriously as it is a matter of them putting story above all else. like the rex takes a dive here because they think they need it to for the story to work, which in a way i think is actually more insulting. it's like what happened to worf.
gotta make somebody look scary? just make em take down worf, never mind that it makes worf look like a chump.
@@Hide_Me that makes sense. But still
Yeah but good thing is this is just fiction and in reality the rex is the most powerful of the carnivores but in the Jurassic franchise it’s probably on the weaker side of the large carnivores with the hybrid being the strongest then the spino and giga
@@tvvistedv3nom26 you know, that does make totally sense
@@Hide_Me Marvel comics did this with Dr. Doom. Every time a new superhero was debuted they had him (or her) fight Doom and win like he was a punching bag. Eventually they had to create the concept of Doombots, so basically they could say a lot of these heros were just fighting one of Doom's robot doubles rather than Doom himself.
I love your hunting grant/raptors theory, it makes sense to me with how loud and abrupt his gag on the kids suddenly turned into panic after the rex's roar was heard throughout the valley
Why would triceratops need such defensive armour and horns if there wasn't a predator like T-Rex around?
Because it just looks so cool
@@FlyingTigersKMT The rule of cool aka sexual selection. Look how big my horn is Baby! Lol, true!
@@glennbabic5954 exactly, it's a mating display like peacocks
Additional point: Scotty, our largest tyrannosaurus specimen yet, would be larger than our largest spinosaurus and giganotosaurus specimens. Not in length, but in weight and mass (therefore, size), tyrannosaurus is currently larger than spinosaurus and giganotosaurus.
Also even the length of Giganotosaurus and other Carcharodontosaurids for that matter as well as Spinosaurus don’t differ very much from the length of T. Rex, although Spino may have been 10 feet longer than a T. Rex, which would be a pretty noticeable difference, just goes to show that T. Rex really was most likely the biggest land predator to ever exist or so far anyway. You never know when a new species could be discovered after all, but even if T. Rex really turned out to be the biggest if time travel was ever invented or had a way to bring back all prehistoric animals, I wouldn’t be disappointed if T. Rex was the biggest, or even if it didn’t turn out to be the biggest, because I know all animals are special in their own way, since it is my favorite dinosaur despite knowing about the vast majority of dinosaur species.
T.Rex was both predator & a scavenger in my eyes
I agree,such an animal would require as many calories as it could find,I would even say Primal may predict a future discovery that Tyrannosaurs occasionally eat fruit.
Agreed
It was an opportunistic predator that would hunt its prey, but also scavenge on dead creatures when it had the chance
Well...i mean most of carnivore aren't only did a spesific diet...if they need to hunt they hunt,if they find a carcass they eat it....that's all
@@brockschannel3927 I could really picture T. Rex eating a watermelon and crushing it easily, kinda like what you see with Crocodiles & Alligators, also Hippos and even Elephants (a lot of people don’t realize Elephants have a high bite force because they don’t bite to defend themselves) when zookeepers give them watermelons as I’ve seen personally here on UA-cam.
Question:
In the extended version of the Giga vs. Rex fight, in the scene where we see a glimpse of Rexy's ancestor in the wild as Rexy regains conciousness, do you interpret it as genetic memory? As a simbolic nod to the audience? Or as irrelevant?
Personally I just saw it as a nod to the audience, as genetic memory was never established as a thing in the JP universe.
Also, even if I knew Jack Horner's theories since I first saw it on the Discovery Channel at the age of nine back in 2000, now I can't hear that name and not think of the villain in Puss in Boots: The Last Wish.
I think it was intended to be genetic memory
@@KlaytonFioriti Thanks!
I think it was just a nod to the public
I honestly believe that T-Rex was both a hunter AND a scavenger; it would just depend on the dinosaur's circumstances as to what it would do at a particular time.
The T-Rex had the tools to deal serious damage while hunting, but if food was scarce, I'm sure it wouldn't pass up a carcass if it happened to come across one. It would kill when it could, and scavenge if it had to!
It was great to see you discuss this topic! I ALSO had those McDonald's Dinosaur toys, I even got an electronic Carnotaurus Room Guard for my birthday, and recording Walking With Dinosaurs!
Was an active hunter fossil evidence
@@rodrigopinto6676 successful hunts usually don't show up in the fossil record...BUT botched bites and healed bone wounds DO show up
Great video, Klayton! Pretty good summation of the T. rex predator/scavenger "debate", its relation to real dinosaur science and Jurassic lore. Not really anything to add on to it, aside from the latest studies about the the Tyrannosaur arctometatarsal, and its iplications on Tyrannosaur agility and locomotion, which could make them all the more scarier when you look into it and how it compares to other known theropods.
That scavenger theory is almost nostalgic. I'm glad it's mostly a fringe theory
T-Rex likely was opportunitistic, I never thought it was just a scavenger. One does not need a massive bite force to eat something dead, those jaws were built for defense and hunting. The eye sight is another reason I think it was also a hunter.
Well the massive bite force can be useful if you are crushing bone to get at the marrow. But that also is gonna have different teeth than what Rex had.
I’m pretty sure people also assumed Trex was a scavenger due to it’s speed compared to other theropods. Saying how it was too slow to hunt. I always thought this idea was completely stupid seeing as a Trex’s main prey source would have been just as slow as a Trex. Trex’s build was perfect for hunting large dinosaurs like Edmontosaurus and Triceratops. Also Trex was the only predator capable of killing these animals at the time. Seeing as it was the only predator in North America capable of tackling these creatures it makes sense it hunted them. Nature has a balance to keep populations in control, and Trex was definitely the creature keeping the large herbivore population in control by hunting them. At-least that’s how I see it. It’s bite force power was obviously evolved for the purpose of killing the heavily armored herbivores it lived with. And obviously if it was the fight a Giga or Spino it would absolutely dominate that fight. Not only was it heavier than both Giga and Spino, it was more agile apparently, (according to new research, could be wrong). With those factors it could just knock the Giga or Spino over with it’s superior mass and deliver a neck bite. Finishing the fight relatively quick. The fact that we find WAY more Trex fossils compared to other large theropods kinda proves that it was the most successful. There’s no way a animal could be that successful if it only scavenged.
There's also the Endurance Predator theory. That Rex just kept a steady pace while it's prey tired out running from it.
In my opinion the T.rex was probably both a predator and a scavenger like most modern predators we see today. In the wild, we had individuals who prefer hunting and others who embrace a lifestyle of eating dead animals and doesn't make their whole species as corpse-eaters in general. The diet of the t.rex would also depends on the age of each specimens, a younger rex would probably hunt living preys, while a really old massive rex would eat preys who are already killed by other predators.
For about ten years now, I’ve thought of the Trex as the hyena of its time. Incredible bite force, switching from scavenger to predator, depending on the conditions of its environment, and opportunity.
I met Jack Horner as a kid when he did a presentation at OMSI, I argued in favor of T-Rex being a predator and pointed out the fossil of a herbivore dinosaur that survived a T-rex attack, Jack said that he saw that fossil and really did not have an answer for it, I told him I would become a paleontologist one day and prove him wrong(lol I did not become one but I still think hes full of shit) on a side note one of the things that frustrates me the most is the lack of bite strength they give the T-Rex in the movies
I think it was both, if you really think about it the animal was much too big to have to rely on kills from animals much smaller than itself, IMO.
I am so happy that at least ONE of the dinosaur youtubers I follow understands that they're talking about MOVIES. Not documentaries. I get so frustrated with some others on here sometimes who constantly bitch about "muh paleontological accuracy!!!! meeeeeeeh!!!!"
Yeah, I grew up with this hypothesis by Horner. It use to get under my skin a lot when I was younger, but now it doesn't phase me at all. However, I remember how popular and influential it was in helping to make T. rex look pretty pathetic in other dinosaur media at the time. It kind of still remains too, especially with "Rexy's" treatment in the JW franchise.
We have direct evidence of predatory behaviour in tyrannosaurus. A literal embedded tooth in hadrosaur bone that GREW BACK AROUND THE TOOTH proves definitively that tyrannosaurus was a hunter as well as an opportunistic scavenger as any animal in that position would be. Don’t worry about that old disproven Horner stuff 🤣👍
@@reubenc0039 Yes, I know about the tooth in the hadrosaur specimen. I also never believed that T. rex was a scavenger only to begin with. It was just annoying as to how prominent the hypothesis was. I'm glad I've grown indifferent to it now 😁
Awesome video bro. I agree and think it’s pretty obvious that Rex was doing some scavenging as well as hunting. That’s the name of the game for big predators, you get your next meal in the easiest way possible. Another benefit of being the biggest and baddest is your ability to drive other predators away from their fresh kills and it makes complete sense that Rex would be doing that.
I genuinely hate what the franchise have done to the Rex pretty much consistently since JP3. It’s not like they have purposely tried to even it out to bring other big heavyweights in to the picture, it’s just the same lose lose lose for Rex, like they’re on a mission to humble an animal that’s been dead for millions of years. They couldn’t even bring themselves to give it a clear win in Camp Cretaceous, never mind Dominion.
The problem I have is that they're making it too kid friendly and saturated.
I personally never thought a lot of accuracy to the T. rex . I’d always saw the T. rex as something similar to a gator or how a lot of modern day predators would react , they would only attack if hungry , or threatened/spooked , or if they were being attack/harassed .
And if they came across a half eaten carcass, they take the chance to eat it.
Very plausible
Just google David Hone's youtube video on the subject. He shows fossil proof T-Rex was a hunter and a opportune scavenger. Also he as well said Spino would straight die in that part of the movie that Rex bites his neck.
Lol! I'm glad you laid this all out so clearly and bluntly. JP3 really tried to cheap shot us for pure controversy points
Thank you relaying the most simple piece of factual information everyone forgets about the trex, that bone dusting bite... everytime i see the trex being portrayed in a hunt or battle or even a discussion of such, everyone forgets about that damn bite. 12000 psi! Even 8000 psi would be overkill!
Wrong Tyrannosaurus rex bite force 16000 psi
@@rodrigopinto6676 the most consistent number ive seen was 12000 followed by the fewer 8000, but if a 16000psi is the case then that would be even more reason to consider its power!
@@mikefarina9743”12000psi” outdated number
@@mikefarina9743 currently 16000 psi or probably even more.
@@rodrigopinto6676 just imagine a bite from that thing lol. Its would be like putting a mouse under a hydrolic press
I was so mad about Dr. Baker being on the bad guys side. 😂 He was my absolute favorite paleontologist when I was a kid. He was featured in Dinosaur! From the 80s.
Hello I’m a massive fan and your videos make me extremely excited
Love your work mate!! I’ve always thought of the T-Rex as an opportunist as well. I think of it’s size actually giving it no real reason to be cautious or engage in any particularly tactical hunting. I imagine it just cruises around without much concern and just eats whatever meals of opportunity it comes across. Almost like a herbivore grazing, but with meaty treats instead.
I’m guilty of that too. When I interned at an alligator sanctuary and told people about Deinosuchus folks constantly asked if it could kill a Trex. IMO the location of the fight would decide that battle, especially if Trex was also an ambush predator. Catching a Rex grabbing a drink at the waters edge gives the crocodilian an advantage. If someone thinks they can prove me wrong I’d love to hear it.
Yeah I totally agree with you, if there’s any large predator besides another T. Rex that could kill a T. Rex, a Deinosuchus or a Mosasaurus might have the best chance if it ambushes a T. Rex when it’s taking a drink, but Deinosuchus would be the most likely to do this though or potentially another giant Crocodilian species that would’ve been in the same floodplain habitat as T. Rex, since Deinosuchus is believed to have gone extinct before T. Rex came into existence and Mosasaurus is believed to have only lived in the deep oceans and could’ve gone it’s whole life never encountering a T. Rex although they did exist at the same time period.
that goes with any carnivore or dinosaur not only rex. giga, allo, cera, spino and other more will lose if they get jumped by a croc that size
I think it’s the same theory they had about the Short Faced Bear, which also had an amazing sense of smell but couldn’t maneuver due to its weight. It roved around using it’s nose as a carcass detector and bullied all other predators from their kill. That why is so massive and heavily built; no other predator would be able to fight it.
I'd argue the same about hippos if I just saw ones skeleton.
But here they are running 30kmh and blowing out any notion of it being "slow"
What makes someone think t Rex was as docile as a panda.
I had the opportunity to discuss this with Jack Horner a while back and I’m pretty sure he changed over to the “oppurnist” idea than fully scavenger. He thinks it would half to be an ambush predator if it did hunt.
Dude even Jurassic Fight Club established how much of a king T-Rex was like no other documentary or sadly Jurassic Park Movie did.
Please Make A Video About 1916: Unknown War, It's An Dinosaur/War/Horror Game
I Know It Has Nothing To Do With Jurassic World But I Don't Care
@@luukzilla1519 You Don't Have To Capitalise Every Word.
@@HOTD108_ Ok
Im a Spinosaurus fanboy and I do argue that strange things can happen in nature and a Spinosaurus could win given the right conditions, but yeah when an animal who's bite is said to of been strong enough to crush a car bites onto the back of your neck, you're dead. You are not getting back up. That would have instantly snapped its neck and severed the spinal cord.
I knew this would eventually happen 😭
The evolution of the T. rex has always been fascinating to me, especially when you consider how widespread other super-predators like the Carcharodontosaurids were. Animals like Giga, Carcharo, or Mapu were big because they were hunting the biggest animals. T. rex was big because it coexisted with living battle tanks like ankylosaurs and ceratopsians. The carcharodontosaurids didn't have comparable bite forces to T. rex because they didn't need it; they had sharp teeth which ripped the skin and sheared chunks of meat off the bone. T. rex had slight serrations, but its teeth were mostly peg-like; better suited for puncturing flesh rather than tearing it. Then there's the skeletal adaptations for its size: T. rex was so heavy that its leg bones were hollow (reduces weight without sacrificing strength), and its ankle bones (metatarsals) were nearly fused together like a horse's leg bones are; it needed a more robust frame to bear the brunt of its weight while running. Definitely not a scavenger. If anything, T. rex was the closest thing to an anti-tank bioweapon: fast enough to run down the quickest ground targets, strong enough bite to grab them and hold on, and heavy enough bodyweight to drag them to the ground.
In JP3, i always assumed the rex was an inexperienced juvenile, not fully grown and let go of the spino neck for a split second to get a better grip and the spino felt battle-hardened, and then reacted accordingly to bite the rex. It's still a bit outrageous, but at least, i can tell myself a fully grown Rex wouldnt fall like that.
the jp3 rex is incredibly small compare to the other trexes.
JP3 spino is bigger than a trex. Even alan grant says so...
@@Great_White21 canonically it isn't.
an official jp3 size chart puts Spinosaurus at 43ft in length. The jp3 rex is 37ft, while Rexy for a prime example is 45ft in length and stands a lot taller and broader.
the jp3 spino is only larger than the jp3 rex.
@@alpha7even928jp3 spino is larger than the sorna rexes, rexy is slightly bigger than spino.
the jp3 trex is confirmed fully grown.
Finally, someone makes sense! Absolutely spot on Klayton - nothing can escape a T-rex's jaws. That scene in JP3 where the Spino survives a T-rex bite that btw lasts longer than 3 seconds is laughable - like those old movies where people just come back to life after having a huge cannon sized hole shot through them.
Similar thing happens in JW as well where Rexy gets the first bite like the JP3 rex and tears at the bite yet the Indominus is apparently unphased because it has "armour" even though T-rex jaws and teeth evolved to counter that.
The way I look at it is mainly the Predator/Prey relationship with the ecosystem of T.Rex designed for combat with even hadrosaurs like Edmontosaurus being more heavily built in comparison to many others and if they weren’t armed they had speed. This is why T.Rex is the most dangerous for me cause none of the other apex dinosaurs come close.
9:10 Crocodiles have one of the strongest bite forces out of any living animal, yet we never see them actually one-shot zebras or buffalo that they catch, it always takes them time to bring down something. Just because they can generate a strong bite force doesn't mean they can utilize it in a single snap motion, they need time chewing down in order to produce that bone-crunching force. Another good example would be hyenas, their bite is strong enough to bite off a rhino's leg, but if bite-force worked the way you put it then hyenas would have no competition with other predators. And similar to hyenas, just because they're primarily scavengers doesn't mean they can't hunt successfully (hyenas are statistically more successful at hunting than lions), but the reason why having strong bites is better suited for scavenging is because it allows the animal to get more nutrients from the bones...
Yes this is the video we’ve been waiting for!!!!!!!!! You are 100% correct. That bite! You can even live this stuff out in real life. Just look at a Pit Bull.
I like to think that Tyrannosaurus was mainly a hunter and only scavenged when it needed to🦖
The greatest part of Dinosaurs is they captured our imaginations as kids, and held them ever since.
I talked to a paleontologist at the children’s museum a few years ago (I was with my kids), and I asked him about the T-Tex scavenger theory. He said that was just made up to get people talking about dinosaurs more, so basically it was just added because people weren’t talking about Tyrannosaurus anymore and it wasn’t as cool these days, so whoever brought the theory forward just wanted people to talk about dinosaurs again. With a bite force as strong as Tyrannosaurus, and it’s sheer size and aggression, there’s no way that was purely a scavenger.
Have you ever heard that predators can do both hunting and scavenging
I see you haven't gone into detail with why Horner said T. rex was a scavenger, so I'll do it here along with why he is wrong about each. (courtesy of Red Raptor Writes in his review of Valley of the T. rex.)
1. T. rex didn't have a good sense of sight. (It's skull shows that it would have had binocular vision like most predators today.)
2. T. rex wouldn't be a good hunter because of its small arms. (You don't need big arms for hunting when you have a gigantic head filled with teeth.)
3. Because it has a good sense of smell like vultures, T. rex would have also been a scavenger. (Many hunters today like sharks have an excellent sense of smell)
4. Tyrannosaurs had relatively short legs, meaning they couldn't have been very fast. (You don't need to be fast when your prey is also big. Also consider ambush hunting)
5. Horner claims that there is only evidence that T. rex ate meat but didn't hunt anything, yet there are healed bite marks on Torosaurus bones and a tooth embedded in an Edmontosaurus bone that healed over it.
I’m partial to Dr. Bakker
I never viewed the scavenger theory as controversial because t. rex was cool as a hunter but more so because Jack Horner kept say it could ONLY be a scavenger (most infamously in Valley of the T. rex). And while the whole thing is framed as this great debate, he really was the only major player on that side of the argument. Also disregarding paleontology aging poorly at times, t rex being a pure scavenger never would've made sense because of basic ecology. There's a lot of large herbivores, t rex is the only large carnivore. Something has to eat them. Great video as always.
Oh we're talking about Rex's being a Hunter or scavenger! Phew! I always figures it did both as an opportunist hunter! For a minute I thought the T-Rex controversy was it knew sign language or was secretly Timmy's BFF and wanted to give him back his wallet! 😆
I feel that 100%. Having a copy of Dino Crisis, the Aladar hand puppet and a VHS recording of Walking with Dinosaurs when I was younger. Hit super close to home
God, or nature if you’d prefer had been very generous with big T, sight, smell, not to mention the strongest bite force than any terrestrial predator, and who knows perhaps even size to go with these.
Hey klayton what happened with the that cool cartoon intro with the music buddy.
It was so cool.
Gave a nice 90s vibe made the video so wholesome.
I love tyrannosaurus Rex as both a scavenger and a predator. But I wish we had more information on the tyrannosaurus Rex.
We have multiple feeding traces for Tyrannosaurus, highly suggesting it hunted. We have Trike horns with healed bite marks on them and also a large Torosaurus skull riddled with bite marks from Tyrannosaurus that also show healing. There are also numerous Hadrosaur remains that also show healed bite marks from Tyrannosaurus, so it's really not much of a debate anymore. Jack Horner has stated before on a TV show or some documentary that he flat-out hated Tyrannosaurus....the lad was pretty biased against the animal. Did Tyrannosaurus engage in scavenging behaviour? Absolutely, we have evidence for this also, but we know it also hunted at times too.
With the bite force it seems to have had it isn't even hard to imagine it just crushing bone effortlessly.. I mean just look at our very own Jaguar that hunts by crushing the skull and brain of whatever it hunts.
I think Jaguars kill more by piercing the skull than they do by crushing it, they have very formidable canine teeth and their bite force is sufficient to drive those deep into the skull of their prey.
The orca is seen as the apex predator of the ocean. But recently orca pods have been seen scavenging even though they don't need to, it's just an easy snack for them. I know it's two different groups, one is an ancient land reptile and the other is an aquatic mammal...but I think the same is probably true.
Yeah his theory are definitely wild and not very good way his recent history’s
T-Rex doesn’t want to be fed. He wants to hunt.
I do agree that when the T-Rex places a well placed bite it should be game over. I’d say my only gripe with the T-Rex fanboys is that that because of this trivia they think the T-Rex is unbeatable. Remember, the creature still has to get a good bite in. Its not out of the realm of possibility that it could be beaten.
Rexes (especially younger, less experienced ones) probably get killed hunting all the time: want to impress the big female that you're genes are worth passing on? Try killing an adult triceratops or an edmontosaur to serve up as a 'wedding meal'; I'm sure they got trampled and impaled fairly often. After that, we have Rexes fighting over territory or mates or meals has probably gotten more than a few 'young bucks' killed as well.
Yh. It depends on how agile and fast the opponent is as well.
A spinosaurus could strike the rex multiple times, and if lucky, it could actually bleed it.
Or a giganotosaurus could appear out of nowhere at top speed and ram the rex, and then initiate a killing blow by aiming for a vital area.
@@thorodinson6625 👍🏻
True. Anything can be beaten. T-Rex was an animal not some immortal dragon.
@@thorodinson6625 Conversely, those apply to the Rex doing it to the others.
But something really important is you really should look at how wide these animals are. Every time you see the size comperisons that show Giga and Spino as bigger than Rex, it's side profile. You look at them front or top, and T-Rex is considerably broader.
I was soooo pissed as a Kid when I saw the Trex killed after biting the Spinos neck. I literally went on a rant at the Cinema about how strong rexys bite was😂 oh and yeah, I of course had the Aladar puppet
The question I want to ask is, why can't it be both?
Why does that Jp3 scene suggest scavenging, the rex could have killed that thing
Yeah I thinks Tyrannosaurus Rex was definitely a hunter because it's always being described as the most successful predator to walk the earth, but if it was hungry and came across a free meal it would probably take it
Yeah Some of the Hadrosaur and Triceratops Fossils had Feeding Damage From a T-Rex
Well that could just be it killed them and ate them
@@ksmproductions4976 Not with the bone healing over a T-Rex tooth. That Hadrosaur got away, but the Rex left a bit of itself in the tail.
I just realized this could be a weird idea as to what people believe a "hunter" to be. Tarantulas, web weavers and jumping spiders use three completely different methods. Which is the most predatory. It's completely subjective.
It is conceivable that the spinosaurus of jurassic park 3 was not pure, it had been tampered with (more than the other dinosaurs) and that made it faster, stronger, more aggressive than it would've been. Additionally, the T-rex it took down could've been inexperienced in fighting other things it's size. This makes the scene with the spino killing a t-rex more believable.
In terms of Rexy and the giga however, this changes. Rexy has experience with raptors, the I-rex, and probably other therapods or even other T-rexes by the time of JW3. The Giga would not have this amount of experience. There is also no direct indication that Rexy has suffered significant losses in strength and agility due to her age. With this in mind, I reckon the T-rex should've been able to wipe the floor with the giga no help required.
Rex was almost destroyed by Indominus. Like no question that thing beat her to an inch of her life. It was plot-induced villain destruction that killed off Indominus with the Mosasaurus dragging it back into the deep. Even with Giga, she needed help from the Therizino to beat the Giga. There's A LOT of nostalgia for Rex but that kind of masks the fact that outside of the raptor attack, she needed help in taking down two other big bads. Even Big and Little Eatie in Camp Cretaceous needed to double team to just scare off the Spino. A single Rex wouldn't survive an encounter.
Originally it was gonna be Bayronx instead of Spino, but they realized it was waaaay to small to be a super predator that kills T-Rex.
As Calvin put it many years ago in his homework on whether T-rex was a hunter or a scavenger: It was a hunter, as it would be considered cheating eating something that was already dead 🙂
yo
Are you planning on ever doing a part 2 of Dino crisis?
The dino the t-rex is eating in JP3 before the fight I always thought it hunted it down itself. It never crossed my mind that it just scavenged it.
Also I remember hearing that there were healed bones from a stegosaurus found in which the t-rex teeth fit perfectly so it did hunt and fight living animals. There is a reason why those herbivores have massive weapons to defend themselves. Defend against massive opponents.
You’re thinking of T. Rex teeth fitting perfectly into the Edmontosaurus tail bone, and the bone healed over time, Indicating that the T. Rex attempted to hunt the Edmontosaurus while it was still alive, but the Edmontosaurus managed to get away, there’s also even fossilized evidence of Triceratops having T. Rex bite marks on them too, as for Stegosaurus though, it was long extinct before T. Rex and it’s contemporaries came into existence, Stegosaurus lived in the Late Jurassic era, and T. Rex and it’s contemporaries lived at the very end of the Late Cretaceous and were among the last non avian dinosaurs to go extinct. However there is fossilized evidence of an Allosaurus fossil having a hole in one of its bones that perfectly fits with a Stegosaurus tail spike, indicating that the Allosaurus attempted to hunt the Stego but got stabbed in the crotch and possibly bled out over time from that injury.
@@Azureblue25 yes ofcourse I meant the Triceratops but got it mixed up. Thanks for correcting.
Oh man, I'm glad i caught this video soon after it came out. I really love your videos Klayton, new and old. I'll always be a fan, keep up the good work!
I mean I think you can kind of say Jack Horner was wrong because he’s whole spiel was that it was and obligate scavenger which is a pretty ridiculous stance for and actually palaeontologist to make, the whole point of science is to learn from observations and there’s no way to observe fossils to give a 100% certain fact on behavioural adaptations like that. IMO Horner just loves seeing his name and face on things 😂 he will just say something controversial to get himself in the limelight.
Scavenger Rex: I'm the most controversial theory to ever be proposed
Feathered Rex: guess I'm just a spring chicken to you guys, huh?
I appreciated this video. The humility and humanity of it. Good on you Klayton
Paleontologist 1: Hunter!
Paleontologist 2: Scavenger!
Paleontologist 1: Hunter!
Paleontologist 2: Scavenger!
Me: How about we both agree that like modern day predators, a rex can be both hunter and scavenger?
Paleontologist 1 and 2: THERE WILL BE NO ALLIANCE!!!