Limited Resources 762 - Bloomburrow Format Overview
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- Опубліковано 2 лис 2024
- This week on Limited Resources Marshall and Luis go deep on a format that is new but feels like it’s been around for a long time. Is core settish too strong? Bloomburrow feels very on-the-board, creature centric, and balanced (as long as you avoid blue). Dive into the format with the guys on this episode of LR!
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Your Hosts: Marshall Sutcliffe and Luis Scott-Vargas
Marshall’s Twitter: / marshall_lr
Luis’s Twitter: / lsv
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I've been watching this show for a long time and I just wanted to give a word of appreciation of what you are doing.
Not only are you providing a lot of useful information, but you are doing so in a podcast which is also entertaining to hear.
The sinergy among you is great and I love LSV's jokes and the final "anectodal" is always a fun section.
Not to mention that all this info is coming from one of the GOATs, which is still very passionate about the game and encourages others to be.
You have been an inspiration to me, so I just wanted to say thank you LSV and Marshall.
imagine it's been suggested before, but it'd be helpful to show the cards being talked about in the top commons and other portions like with the crack a pack
I think the formats where removal is not as important are some of my least favorite. Maybe I’m a slower player, but when I hear/find that removal isn’t a priority in a set I usually don’t draft it as much.
Removal is less important in MKM but MKM is way better than BLB.
I think banishing light is needed. There are so many must answer synergy pieces in this set. Even if you trade down on mana it’s usually still worth it.
Obviously your deck still needs plenty of ways to affect the board before turn 3.
I’ve also had way more luck trying to have more midrange synergy driven decks than super agro decks, and an unconditional removal spell is great in those decks.
And must answer talents too
Most recent set I would add to the all-timers list is Neo Kamigawa.
100% - Drafting, gameplay, art and flavour. All home runs
I wish i did better with that one. 😕@@paulonavarro7095
No march of the machines?
@@slungellife No format the speed of MoM makes it to the all timer list
BRO and MOM are better.
Love the show, thanks to you guys I just got my first 7-0 in quickdraft with green/white. Rabbit Response is just insane it won me at least half the games. Keep it up.
He changed his set up. More proof Marshall got replaced by a robot
2 hours ago I was looking to get into the format and was dissaponted that you didn't have a format overview yet, good timing!
Lillypad Village has additional problem - if you play a blue creature that fits the type you effectively need 3 blue lands to be able to activate it as well
i've watched a few LSV drafts and that cycle of lands i've seen completely own him 3 times and seen him activate them 0 times and take them out like twice. just dont seem to be worth the risk
@@brendoncahill7096 the black and red ones seem pretty good, the others are probably not worth bothering with
@@stanislav328 the white and black ones are both pretty similar and good. Obviously you can whiff the white one more easily, but the power of flood protection in limited, even from a one-time land sac cannot be overstated
Patreon Question: No mention to NEO? It is my favourite set I played
Best old set is Champions of Kamigawa, although it's not really that old, just 20 years
It feels like none of the archetypes have any overlap. You can be in the open tribe and still not get a good deck if the cards for your archetype just aren’t opened.
Not exactly flashback age yet but MOM was an all-timer set.
All timer? It was just one of a million aggro sets because that's all WOTC can design
@@Neon-chan2015gotta disagree with you there, you could really cook in that set.
@@MrMisterMiester As long as you cook with one-drops maybe
@@Neon-chan2015 the only aggressive deck in that format was UW Knights... everything else was midrange or control
@@henryzelman4541 Yeah my bad, mixed up MOM and ONE, thought MOM was the all one drop set
I think it's important to have sets that are simpler on the drafting side to attract new players and make it more palatable. The theming of the set obviously helps as well .
As for playing this format, my biggest gripe is that there are a decent amount of non games. Curving out perfectly is so important here. Even if you're not an aggro deck you need to be on the board and do stuff early on.
Pretty much aligns with my draft experiences. My 7 wins decks have mostly been rabbits, lizards, and squirrels … and frogs, because frogs are the most fun and I’ve forced it more often. Be careful … you can definitely deck yourself with the frogs deck.
Honestly it is straight forward and on the rails for the most part, but the theme, art and gameplay is sorta refreshing. It works. Like the next set will if it’s unique enough to feel new.
Loving this format still!!
On my second draft I had 3 banishing lights. One game, against green, they played the (rare?) 4/4 Raccoon that destroys enchantments when gifting a card, TWICE against my Banishing Lights... I know that was a terribly unlucky matchup, but now I can't be happy picking up a Banishing Light.
Just drafted masters25 that felt very fun to play and very spread out power lvl in the color pairs.
Sometimes it really hits how different their experience is from normal players. “Already week 3 and it feels like week 12” meanwhile I haven’t drafted it once bc it’s not on arena quick yet
HAHAHAHA you read my mind hahahaha i was like why does it feel like week 12 is it that bad? I still don't know why it feels like week 12 *SHRUG*
Quick draft is kinda bad compared to premier tho
@@TheMrwuzimu quick lets me go take a shit while drafting
When they asked Tom Brady which ring was his favorite he said “the next one”
I didn't do my homework going into my first draft. I drafted what I thought was a very good lizards deck. Had Gev had the 1 drip red rare. Had the signpost uncommon, 3 of the drain bat lizard duo, couple rat otter duos and a fair amount of good removal. I got steamrolled. The signpost was actively bad as I frequently needed to use removal in main 1 to get any significant damage through and then would just wave goodbye to the exiled care. I'd get to cast the red duo but it was too low impact. And the black duos would hit, but usually be too late.
Second draft I got pushed into otters and went 7-1. 4 of the lizard duo, the electromancer, couple of the frog elvish mystic for speed bumps, buncha cantrips, couple shore ups that worked great with the duos.
I am astonished at folks who have the leisure time to draft a set enough to get sick of it after one week. Not gonna say jealous because it seems they're having considerable difficulty appreciating the opportunity.
Thanks
I want to see some blue cards on the level of cache grab. Same four cards milled and put an instant or sorcery in hand. Maybe give a treasure or clue if you have an otter or other appropriate set piece. Make it uncommon, idc.
Haven’t watched yet, but this is the most fun I’ve had in a format. On my 20th draft of the set. Most I’ve drafted of a set.
I'm not the biggest fan of this set, but that being said, it is a good change of pace. A narrower set can be nice so long as it doesn't become every set.
I was thinking white is the best color, it's just felt so strong. I feel like every draft someone's lane works out right and they wind up just being unbeatable, so not crazy about that.
i think its really problematic that green has the biggest creatures but also gets hyper efficient removal now, the drawback of needing a creature doesnt exist when every creature puts multiple bodies on the board
I haven't drafted the format yet. Tokens just waiting... I find drafting to be less rewarding then doing Dino-combo kills on Arena. No risk and little loss of nostalgia for a game that's changed so much.
@Limited Resources What are your thoughts on SBing Sunshower Druid in Bo3 in decks like BG against aggro decks like RW, BR, RG ?
"Banishing Light just isn't giving me the good brain chemicals."
@19:30 : Isn't there an argument that, since Intrepid Rabbit is (significantly) better in GW than Savior, to take the Intrepid Rabbit ? Also, P1P1, it means cutting rabbit hopes for the players on the left, which is a very good thing ? Even in like WB, I'm not convinced Rabbit is significantly worse than Savior ?
The rare has a decent effect at being a 3 mana 3-powered flier that likely draws a 2-drop when it dies. You are far less likely to see this rare ever again than you are to see an Intrepid Rabbit again. Intrepid Rabbit is good if you know you're GW rabbits, but p1p1 is too early to commit to forcing rabbits and cutting off rabbits for the rest of your draft. I would take the rare, but I'm not married to it. I would read the table.
@@AB-sw4kb Yeah but even in non-rabbit decks, the Intrepid Rabbit has a power level equivalent to the rare. It's a 4 drop, 2 body, 2 ETB triggers that win races with an option to play it on T3 if really necessary. It's just very good too. The rare has no ETB, dies easily, and doesn't always produce value
@@AB-sw4kb (And the argument "Far less likely to see this rare again doesn't make sense to me, as "rare-picking" isn't really a quality, unless it's for exploiting the fact that you don't want the guys on the left to see a shiny rare and over commit in that color)
I don't like the format after ~ 30 drafts. The reason ist the drafting itself. Most of the cards belong to one archetype out of 10. Every next open you feel like you get most blanks. Even the one color first picks lock you to one archetype. It totally feels like gambling. At the point you can be sure which archetype is open is in the last 5 packs. The setting is cool and all, but I really dislike the pure gameplay aspect of it, sorry
I did sealed prereleases and it felt like you got 8-10 creatures if you’re lucky that were part of a somewhat cohesive theme and then the rest were just whatever you could fill out in your colors which made it feel like your deck worked well only in fits in starts. Also not a huge fan tbh
I've done 4 drafts and this is one of the worst draft sets in a while. I love splashing for other colours and it's almost impossible to do in this format. I hate that almost all of the top decks are aggro.
I'm a newer player and this is kind of why I like the set. But I could very well understand experienced drafters not enjoying it. Even still it is annoying that if you hit a good rare or mythic bomb in pack 2 or 3, if it's out of your archetype you really can't excuse picking it. It makes deck power feel really reliant on if you hit playable bombs in those late packs.
I think getting locked into an archetype is definitely a trap in this draft. This format really rewards finding the open lane, so you should be very willing to abandon early picks if something seems open. Your first four or five picks should just be the best card in the pack, even if they are all different colors, then you should be able to get in a strong lane by pick six, and get rewarded on the wheel and next pack.
I actually had one off-tribe draft guided by bomb rares, BW with Maha and the 4/5 with the multiple modes, and a bunch of removal. I didn't really need the good bat cards. That draft was an outlier, though.
My favorite flashback draft is m12.
I totally agree I came back I'm m10 after 10 years off... Great sable stag, fireball those sets feel like rocks and sticks. More of a battle of the draft and player not the opens
Thus format feels boom or bust in the draft phase. I've had five 7 win drafts and way more 3 win or less drafts than any other format I've played.
Im curious if there are set designs that exacerbate this feeling. The combination of BO1, linear strategies, and quality one drops seems to make the set feel high variance.
The thing that you feel when you don't have a 2 drop: sadness. Too many good three and four drops in this format and yes I'm looking for the twos. But when this happens variance naturally goes up. If you don't hit a two drop or you don't get to land three, it's gonna be a bad time.
I'd call it "two-drop anxiety"
I like his format, especially the draft, a lot, mainly because it rewards you for finding the open lane, rather than opening bombs or cobbling together splash soup. There have been multiple drafts where I noticed something seemed open pick four or five, completely abandoned my first picks, and ended up with great decks because people can’t just swipe the good multicolored cards and splash them. Feels like I haven’t been able to do that in years.
It feels great when you get passed a 4th pick Lunar Convocation or something.
1:07:49 so you're saying you can have your cake and eat it too
What does it take to make removal less playable in this format?
Besides the one mana instant that basically says "counter target removal spell".
Is removal too costly?
I think it's more that threats are often cheap so you're not gaining mana advantage or have good ETBs so you give up some value. And in many cases, both combined. Plus removal gets worse when go-wide is strong as it is in this format. That said, I still think you want at least 4-5 cheap ways of interacting whether that's hard removal or combat tricks
@@morgancarlton4544 thanks for a thoughtful reply
the cards are not readable, normaly the quality of the cards is so that we can read them
my best draft i won 3 games.. ive lost alot
This format is so god damn rough. You can not afford to slip behind a single turn or you just perish.
idk why y'all hating on blue red. I 3-0'd a trad draft with a control style using festival embers to replay my spells, had 2 copies of Alania. I've also gone 7-0 in premier 8 times already with izzet aggro, which is really actually mice/otters/combat tricks and maybe some removal. I think in the entire 8 premier drafts, I've had a total of 2 rares.
Key cards in the aggro version are into the flood maw, splash portal and might of the mouse, otterball antics, eddymurk crab, and the signpost common. Shoreline looter (a rat) and bellowing crier (a frog) also perform in this deck looting away expensive instants/sorceries you draw early, which enable you to get an eddymurk crab early. I typically get crab down turn 4, but I've even gotten it down on turn 3 on occasion.
Also, using a control version without rares is not unwinnable, but it is a lot tougher. Key cards for the control deck are take out the trash, wildfire howl, blooming blast, dazzling denial, and obviously, pearl of wisdom. But the big card here is daring waverider, 6 mana otter etb get back instant/sorcery. Also, the 4 mana bounce something that's 3 mana if it's attacking is the ultimate safeguard against the million corpseberry cultivators running around.
In both cases I stay away from that enchantment removal that makes something a food, because it either gains them life, which is bad if you're aggro; and enables foraging easier for them, which has been super strong against control.
The lizard otter has been ok in both decks, but not superb; it is a way to chip in a couple extra damage if you're aggro; and it can slow drain a bit if you're control, but it's clunky because a 3 mana 1/3 just doesn't trade or block well.
I have a hunch that the reason izzet isn't performing well, is because most people don't understand what their deck is supposed to be doing; and likely have a mix of control and aggro, which doesn't actually work.
Tbh LSV in that kastral deck, you were screwed by mtg giving you awful hands, the deck was decent. UB can be good but you rly need strong ground creatures dlthat carry counters very well, like looter and stoat. Your 3+ mana creatures should be birds only with several plumecreed mentors, the deck is rly good at that point. It doesn't come together often, but when it does it can be unatoppable
"If you are on the draw and don't have a two drop you are in trouble" - So many unnecessary words, "if you are on the draw you are in trouble" period. Most important skill in this format is winning the die roll. No other decisions comes even close to this
Both of you seriously need to focus on your diet
Who asked, F off 😂
I follow the only rabbit diet
If you want to be a dick and call people fat do that, instead of couching it in concern for someones health.
Yet another set that I am refraining from participation. Terrible!!
LotR honestly snubbed in best draft formats
You guys are way off about blue
Another game where my 16 card aggro deck floods more than than the panties of on OF squirter... and next game mulligan to 4 of course. Damn this is so much fun.
And another flood... fuck this set, fuck WOTC, fuck the joke of designing one aggo set after the other
The format overview: You are dead turn 5. Next
this happens if you mess up bloom draft part and that is easy to do, finding the lane is key
you have no clue about the deck I had but I'm happy to hear which pick in draft would have made me win the die roll to not get steamrolled by Rabbits nut draw.
Love this communty: Oh you lost to T3 Crysalis into T4 Crysalis on the play? Must be your lack of skill.
So bad of me to not beat Mightcaller into Burrowguard Mentor into Hop to it on the play. Only 13 power when I played my 3rd land. Should be an easy win
Well, as Luis and Marshall said, it's a fast format, but if both players have alright decks that get on the board, the games do actually go quite long. You do get steamrolled sometimes, and sometimes you steamroll others, but there are certainly long games too. I've decked myself without noticing, and that's without milling but just by drawing cards. That said, I am quite bummed that control seems to just not be an option, unless you count frogs as "control," and blue being so bad is sad. Don't think I'll bother with this one for long.
@@alaron5698 I would also like to just skip this format but the next one will just be the same with different skin. WOTC stopped making new limited formats, they just design a few mechanics and then walk through their check list, making the same super fast format over and over, maybe getting a bit faster every time
get good