Should the 12-Year-Old Boys Charged with Murder Be Identified?
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- Опубліковано 10 чер 2024
- Two 12-year-old boys have been found guilty of murdering 19-year-old Shawn Seesahai.
Andrew Pierce and Kevin Maguire debate whether the identity of the two boys, who murdered Shawn Seesahai with a machete, should be known.
Broadcast on 11/06/24
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If your kids out at 1:30am with a machete.. you are the problem.
Those questions need to be asked to the parents
yes but do not blame the parents for their actions, they have freewill everyone does,, the parents played a part but the 12 year old killed a young man.. so its their fault for doing this
@@Emzy17 Freewill, let me have a laugh !
Exactly
The parents don't care. They just want them out of the house, out of the way.
Name them, if you killed someone brutally with a weapon, then you old enough to be named, the victim is, so should his murderers.
agree 💯
Agree
Name them. I don't care about troublemaker kids at all.
@@rickocconnell9056 troublemaker is a bit of an understatement
Agree entirely, there only children by age, innocence has long gone with both of those murderous.
My cousin was murdered by a minor in the year 2000. The murderer was not publicly identified and he did not serve more than two years in prison. 24 years later and I still wish he was brought to actual justice. I don’t care how old anyone is. If theymurder, they to be punished, and severely. My family has never recovered, and the murderer is living his best life.
Oh I'm so sorry for your loss my condolences to you and your family
I am so sorry to hear about this 😢
These people should be named and shamed sorry for the family's loss
If you commit a horrific crime at that age then you should be treated as an adult simply as a warning to others and their parents.
😢
Name them. Adult court. Adult sentence. Throw away the key
Capital punishment much needed now
Deffernatly
The lack of the ability to name and shame people is having dire consequences, parents should get a sentence too.
Totally agree.
Agree
Other day 11 pm a youth in black hoodie clothing riding a black coloured bike
No lights ...going the wrong way down a busy street
So the parents just have kids and never show any concern or buy lights or safety gear
They'd soon whine if their little darling was smushed under a lorry
Totally agree that parents should bear the responsibility of their childrens actions.
Yes I have been saying that for Years
The parents don't care. They just wanted their kids out of the way. They're probably glad they're out of their way long term.
YES YES they should be IDENTIFIED... they have to face the CONSEQUENCES of their actions. PEOPLE HAVE TO KNOW WHO THEY ARE
Exactly
I suppose they will be given new identities when they are released.
Our justice system is backwards.
Killed for no reason, NAME & SHAME …..this will make the parents wake up.
There was a reason for the killing Racism
Exactly
No it wont😂😂😂😂😂
@@anubis8918ohhh it will
The parents should be held accountable.
How...?
@@YorkshireRose-rt3fk make it law you are responsible for the crimes your children commit till they become an adult. Simple
@@tanktutorials what age is an adult? 🤣 it was 16 when I was a bairn. Not now it's a grey area that your precious government have made so..... too much change and way too quick. That's the problem. Diluting my nation so its unrecognised from 20 years back. Its changed for the worse. A lot worse
Where were they when he's running wild late at night
Another example of how broken the UK is !
Def problems
UK is a very dangerous place now
Gymslip mums, Tories again
When I see mums shouting F words at Thier toddlers and youths in black hoodies riding bikes without lights at night
Or gangs throwing fast food at shop windows
I say to my self ...only in Britain
If you’ve seen the profits politicians and theys friends have made in the last few years youd say different-if you was one of them 😂😂😂😂.
Parents need to… wait for it… parent. Lots of factors but too many parents aren’t doing their jobs: raising children.
But it’s always must be single parents , just dismiss the thousands of single mothers who do a brilliant job
I agree but it would help if kids weren't having kids.
@@jacquelineithell307the person you responded to didn’t say single parenting - if anything they used the word parents…..
I agree. They expect everyone else to do their job.
Absoflippinlutely!
They should be named and have their faces shown and be put in prison for the rest of their lives.
Along with their parents
There is an age in a young child where he can already face accountability for the wrongs deed he has committed. A five year old already knows when had lied. How could a 12 year old not know that stabbing a helpless man with a machete is bad and is a sin?
Lack of Parenting, Lack of societal structure, Lack of accountability, Over prescription of 'labels' to excuse behaviour (such as ADHD, as serious as it is), Bad influence of some of the music industry, Bad influence of some of the movie industry, Poor role models in popular culture, Increasingly weak police powers, Lack of respect for authority, Complete lack of consequence.
1000000000 % correct..
I didn’t see your post and have written similar - I agree with you
ADHD isn’t that serious. That’s just a fake disease made up to “fix” kids that don’t slot into the system nice and neat.
….and the list goes on.
cannot blame the music movie or gaming industry if that was the case we would all be killers for me parents and the fact over the last 14 years we have took apart youth services
The parents should be held to account these are 12 years old out late at night with weapons .
Deffernatly
So they’ll be out when they’re 18 with a new identity. If they let James bulgers killers out they will certainly let these psychopaths out.
Most killers are let out. It’s very rare in this country for killers to serve their whole life in prison, unfortunately.
Week ago I was in town
A young bloke casually chatting to his mates
Brief summation
He said " going court next week for manslaughter verdict "
I tight-lipped looked away
Yes exactly because both of them never had real punishment they were brought out to football matches and were given first class tickets for these matches they had all the comforts of home they never suffered any punishment and one of them has been in trouble many occasions and given a new identity each time when is a crime going to be punishable and not the Molly codling way there treated because they are of a certain age
@@jujutrini8412 There are at least 16 people serving life sentences at the moment Rose West being one of them and the killer of Lee Rigsby
If they’re found guilty they should be named 100%
if?
@@chaosiscoming9184 I meant any minor who commits a crime, but obviously there’s always a wild wild chance people like this get away with it for some wild reason. I don’t believe we should exist in a world where we’re naming suspects however, public court of opinion is dangerous
Name them and consider charges against the parents.
What charges would the parents get? Did they commit the crime? No, they did not.
Neglect of parental duties
@@gregorjackson4606 yeah.. that’s not gonna stand up. They did the crime not the parents.
@@kadenmarsay3276 Child neglect is a crime.
@@kadenmarsay3276ever heard of joint enterprise? there's already precedent set convicting people who didn't commit the actual crime
They knew what they were doing and probably laughing as they did it.
Yes
12 is old enough to know better. Stop talking about helping the killer. Bad judges and reckless policing is to blame.
Reckless policing or is it the fact that police numbers are low to a critical level in the Met, even when kids do get arrested the courts and justice system do not serve harsher sentences if at all. Easy to blame police when the real issue lies with the court, judges and CPS.
@@rubyshah4543 You sound like a police officer. Its all the above reasons including reckless policing. Police officers who just can't be bothered to do their job half the time. It always starts from petty crimes which they don't even investigate anymore.
Don’t forget to blame the parents because why were 12 year olds even out at that time 🤔
The age of legal responsibility is 10.
Nothing to do with the broken culture then 🙄
They should be named, and their faces shown. It's unfair that they could move next door to someone, and they don't know who they are
They are old enough to do the crime, so they should be named and prisoned for life.
The mum and dad should have charges brought to them for allowing them to even have them blades 100%
Didn’t have this wickedness when it was legal to slap/discipline your kids. It’s been removed and people are wondering why kids in society and schools are wild.
Exactly!!
These kids were probably hit. Violence begets violence. I’ve got 12 yr old twin boys who I’ve never even smacked, and they wouldn’t dream of randomly hurting anyone. Not because they’re scared of any repurcussions, religious or real world. Because they’ve been taught empathy, compassion and respect for other living things.
@@AnnaP-uh3mc Every child is unique, one style of discipline for one child would be totally ineffective to another. It's knowing your child and how to discipline in relation to their character and temperament. And no violence dose not begat violence. Violence is a choice and physical discipline is not violence only when it's abuse!
@@lushensutherland6302👏🏿👏🏿👏🏿👏🏿👏🏿
The system protects the criminals and portrays them as a victim due to their mental health and let's down the actual victim who is sometimes dead and that's a fact.
Kids thinking they are cool , boasting on socials about having knives . Absolutely crazy that 12 year olds are willing to machete someone .
Not only they should be identified but their parents too. They are as guilty letting their children grow up like this
Without knowing them , I can still tell you what background they come from and how they were dragged up .
Like the Jamie Bulger(RIP) killers.
Chavtastic
, junk food as five a day ,mum dad on the lash most evenings .
F word every verse end .
And uncle Terry has the best herbal smoking mixture .
@@jujutrini8412is that all you can come up with.
Absolutely name them.....AND the parents..!!
12 is rare but 14 and 15 isn't kids are killing each other every day, once upon a time there was coppers on the beat it's just a sad reflection of what our country has become unfortunately..
They Should Definitely Be Named and Shamed and so should the Parents, imagine if they were your neighbours, would you wanna know ?
Agree
Im sick to death of hearing about things like this ..that poor family that have lost their son......sickening.
Age of criminal responsibility is 10 years of age. Parents need to be accountable also.
parents are innocent.
they have NO authority over their children if the current situation is the way it is.
Just like you cannot blame the police and held them accountable for street crimes because the system will go after them for doing their job and using stop and search method.
@@milo2324 Nonsense. Parents have a responsibility to assert their authority.
@@carolekralova9108in what way? In what way that a child couldn't report that parent?
Now imagine the comments and coverage if the killers were ethnic minorities.
I was thinking exactly this, normally you have comments about "integration and diversity" and "send them back".
💯💯
@@snapperbread5589Reform, tories and far right followers in a nutshell!
That came to my mind too. "A degree of punishment"?? Seriously, if they had been black or brown it would have become a race issue. The hypocrisy is insane.
The media haven't said their ethnicities. Why are you assuming they're white?
NAME AND SHAME THEM
Robert Thompson and John Venables were identified why aren't these
You haven't got to be Einstein to figure it out!!!🤔🤨🧐🙄
If parents are responsible for their children up to 18,jail them as well for neglect if nothing else
In this country we should bring back a life for a life sentencing! You take someones life then the state will take yours!
100%
My son has a friend who's family are from Croatia, their son is 13 now his father gave him large hunting knife when he was 12 & he keeps it in his bedroom.
I stopped my son sleeping round there straight away as soon as he told me, why give a 12yr old a hunting knife for god's sake?
They are widely available online to be delivered to your home, just pay & you have a lethal weapon to give your 12yr old things need to change!!
Anything can be bought on EBAY, Facebook Market place
I had knives growing up, nothing wrong with it. Theres a knife in every kitchen. It’s the culture that’s the issue, seems to be black thing.
Yes - and if found guilty, LIFE IN PRISON . No release after X number of years .
12 is NOT young & innocent !!!!
Some are FULLY clued up ...
The parents also need to be held accountable, the boys and parents should be jailed.
the boys and their parents shud go jail
I think it's a medley of issues leading to this: social media addiction, peer pressure/street cred, both parents either forced to work long hours or neglectful or absent altogether, and cuts to public funding which would provide these youngsters with a safer space to hang out
Where I live , years ago , there used to be gangs of youths from a nearby council estate that came over to our estate and caused all sorts of mayhem for years. Then the council estate from where they came from received a lottery grant. Money was spent on their environment. Youth clubs were created. Youth workers were there. Eventually the mayhem stopped and it hasn’t come back since. I’m convinced it changed their lives and their offspring didn’t do the same. I’m grateful their environment was uplifted.
And the saddest part is that everybody in the UK should be recoiling in horror but unfortunately people have almost become immune and numb to stabbing crimes in lawless Britain. It isn't even shocking or surprising anymore
They should absolutely be named.
Kids are dangerous?! No they aren’t. These kids were dangerous. Don’t pin all 12 year olds in their bracket!
There minsters
James Bulger, Susannah. They never called him Jamie.
*Susanna
Love that great reply
Ban grime music! Drill music, tim westwood, and charge Parent's.
Definitely agree with that statement
and GTA and other violent video games
If not then ID the killers then ID the ones responsible for them Their parents...💯
Shocking crime, one of the kids lived with his grandmother in Wolverhampton, so who knows where his parents are.
They should be named, if they can carry out such a crime, which they obviously planned, their childhood has been lost long ago
It's not difficult to understand. Bad and lazy parenting. Parents not taking responsibility. No family structure, fatherless communities and no formal education. Poor communities without fathers and education create such criminals.
You can't blame lack of fathers, I was a single parent and poor, and my children were/are well behaved, went to university, are great adults.
@@Flowerbee746 You're the exemption, not the rule. Without citing statistics, do you believe all those teenage boys in gangs who commit knife crime have positive fathers in their lives?
@@Flowerbee746 statistically most criminals come from single mother homes... end of debate
I think these days parents or mothers are giving birth to their masters, you can give the best parenting it there are no consequences you can impose on your child, your at their mercy @@theukeconomist6518
@@theukeconomist6518 the majority of people from single parent households are not criminals.
40 years ago I was once attacked by someone with a machete. I never ever thought I would see them on the streets of UK
“It shouldn’t be a political problem”. Just shows you how out of touch these privileged people are with the normal public. The system needs a big change
On 15th May 2024 272 MPs just voted against the ban of zombie knives. Why?
Thompson and Venables were named why not these two.
Why are they continuing to say this is "happening in our inner cities" when the model in Scotland particularly Glasgow has seen knife crime reduced and other cities around the world have sent people there to learn from them on how to reduce knife crime. Is it because in an election what happens north of the border does not matter who we vote for because we still get what England vote for. My heart goes out to the family of this lad.
Yeah it's alright taking about it but no one will do anything about it.
Spot on be treated with kid gloves , so sad bad. home , no father figure, yet lots of kids like this grow up to be decent people!!!!!!!
@jacquelineithell307 if u steal u should be responsible for your actions. Same apply to this! We are too soft in the UK. It's sad because one day a adult will defend themselves and get the full law on their back. Then the kid goes free.
Spot on this is England , nothing will be done .
My father was killed by a 16 year old last year, the defendant was sentenced in January of this year to 12 months! His probation officer had the audacity to ask the judge for a rehabilitation order for taking someone’s life, we have been contacted and told that he may be eligible for home detention curfew in November (will not have served a year at this point) The judiciary system are completely one sided in regards to teenage murderers, it’s disgusting and inhumane. The grieving doesn’t get any easier especially when the crime was never bought to justice!
Well… you know that they were white or they would have been named otherwise…
Jamie Bulger's killers are white and were named! But then given new names upon release! 🙄
music they listen to got a big part to play in all this
Drill music
Games and movies too
I think if they could be a danger to society if released, then they should be named.
Non of them dare mention the glaringly obvious and also not one argument in favour of law abiding citizens being allowed to carry something to defend themselves with!
All to do with parents having to have more than one job, spend their days away from their kids, to put food on the table and have a roof over their families head. Children need family life, they need attention and counselling from their parents or, like feral creatures, they'll get attention from the wrong source. Inequality makes Britain a broken society.
Knife crime in Bristol is totally out of control among young people (although not exclusively. There were three stabbings at the weekend in Bristol. There have been horrific stabbings this year so far and Bristol so many young people have lost their lives.
well, it is all going as inteded and planned in 2007
Old enough to know right from wrong so should be identified!
Name them and the parents.
road man/gang culture influenced this and it’s awfully sad
Name and jail. Simple.
Yes, they should be named because they did the crime.
What drives? Hip-Hop, Rap & Drill music. It has become cult like in influence.
And the video games
Their 'rehabilitation' will likely be new identities and relocations at the expense of the taxpayer.
Don’t get fixated on the fact that he is 12 as that means nothing. Evil is evil and let them be treated as you treat anyone else who is evil. The idea that kids are innocent in some way is based on arbitrary ideas.
where and when did knife machete gang culture come to this country? certainly social media spread the culture quicker, a certain glamour kudos attached to the culture, majority of stabbings in London and maybe elsehwere is black on black. There was also a time when running youth clubs, taking kids fishing etc , was not weighed down with paper work. Young minds influenced by social media..throw in the drug problem as well. Was a time in this country when every kid wanted and got for xmas or birthday a pocket knife and the furthest thing on their minds was to hurt someone, riskiest thing was playing split the kipper. National service might have helped. Perhaps we need positive social media influences that make criminality the losers. God help us
Absolutely they should be named!
Parents are to blame. They have committed an adult crime, name and shame them all, and charge the Parents as they do in America.
Ive noticed in America they are starting to hold parents responsible for younger children's serious crimes along side the child
they will be out before they turn 20 I bet we are soft America get it right when they try some as adults for this kind of thing but in soft Britain life is cheap the victims are forgotten
Agree! We should adopt the American law system.
Yes they should be identified. More to the point the parents. The parents should be investigated.
Problem this is not an isolated case. Yes 12 might be young but others are only 1 to 2 years older. We need an effective police force and existing laws used to arrest and prosecute.
The weapons are not the problem, it is the lack of accountability for actions from an early age.
Yes
And the parents charged with abandonment of parental responsibility
These are feral kids....who have no parental guidance....and are living on the streets mixing with notorious gangs, making them feel as if theyre part of something/someone to look up to.....and dont get me started on the internet etc., .....theyve no idea of consequences to their actions..😤😤😤
Strange I heard a grandparent say the same thing about his grandkids?
They definitely need naming as a warning to others ...where on earth would they get money to buy a weapon like that! and how were two 12 year old boys able to buy it !!...The sellers ought to be prosecuted! we need to toughen up laws and hold parents accountable so they too can be prosecuted! Children are allowed to see horrendous things on TV and the internet.....this stuff needs policing and taken down and again the people posting it prosecuted!!...
For a start. The parents need to be prosecuted. The boys need to be kept off the street. All for the good of the many. This is a nightmare. BUT we have to act for the good of the many on this NOW! Hopefully our Christian values will not be broken over this. Safety first though, we have to be alive to have values.
Name him,nothing to hide,RIP Shawn
They must be identifying , 25 years minimum. Middle-class metropolitans discussing who side with the murderers
We know why they are not being identified!
You don't need to be Einstein to figure it out?🤔🤨🧐🙄
Search for the court drawings by Helen Tipper and come back and tell us what race the boys were. They definitel didn't have Afro featurs or hair!!
Tell us please as you are obviously a police informer
@@NMiller80666There's 1 picture you can see it's white kid,But on some channels the racist comments from some of these white people against other coloured people it's just crazy.
Why would a twelve year old even have the idea of carrying a weapon like this
This is what happens when you take the power away from parents and give it to the unqualified teacher's
Not only should the child be prosecuted the parents should as well might make more parents more accountable
How did 12 year olds even have a machete ? Why were they out so late ( its summer it doesnt get dark till late), i just dont understand!
Yes absolutely name them & the parents.
Parents should be responsible if they want too say they are kids.
when they gonna put the blame on drill music? all of these crimes are committed by kids wearing the same tracksuit uniform with a knife in their man bag
We as UK citizens need to know more about this. The parents need to be asked questions.
When I was three years of age I met a psychopath who was also three and it shocked me that he was so happy in the cut and the blood that came from it and my pain. Evil is evil at any age.
The UK is doomed, i for one hope i can get out asap
Kids having kids, blame the do gooders, social services, lack of disciple, gym slip mothers, drink drugs paid by tax payers/pensioners, Tory created 1980s yep, huge investment for more prisons,
....and go where. USA lol
We we’re dangerous, we had the neighbours , bags of nerves knocking on doors and running away , my god l am glad l grew up then
I'm still trying to understand the pros and cons of why this law was introduced in the first place. If the crime is serious, no matter what age, they should be named