A Reddit post has been brought to my attention! The original post discusses things from a business perspective and the top comment (EffortlessFury) complements it from the technical side. A lot of the things covered in this video are in this thread, so if you want something in a better-organized, more insightful text format, this is definitely worth the read! www.reddit.com/r/Genshin_Impact/comments/1ai0tn3/free_stuff_and_genshin_how_do_large_companies/
I want to add to the 1.6 to 2.0 talk Yeah i ended up pulling on all 3 banners and i had the insane luck of losing only 2 50/50 (one on mei and one on swan) My premium roster of characters is currently perfected so i now dont need to pull on ANYTHING. So now im awaiting for something insane for the game to force my hand to pull. First team is a Kafka swan mei luocha, while second is Selee/Free Ratio Bronya Xuan Tingyun. Ive cleared MoC 12 with little issue. So if you have such a team you can yourself just chill and pull now only for funsies or just stock up for a character you love (i know i did love Kafka cause she is mysterious like Makima, and demon bs too)
Im certain HSR will give a free 5 star for anniversary. Why? You said yourself they are competing against other turn based autobattler gacha games. Ratio showed expectation that they are willing to release a free 5 star character that is good. If a great anniversary is the standard for old time gacha players, they likely have played other turn base gacha games. Meaning yes. They have to release another 5 start. Also, Beta HSR leaked a special item that was essentially the 5 star version of HSR 4 star selector. So yes. It's there.
@@arnowisp6244 Its not just that, Star Rail project and genshin is lead by different people, cai haoyu for genshin and david jiang on honkai, jiang is known to be very generous, Hi3 for instance gave away free meta 5 star units every so often ever since jiang take over from cai haoyu, who while he is in charge of Hi3, got the same complaints as the genshin players had right now
RIGHT? i dunno what tricks like mihoyo mental conditioning to their players, but holy damn that's the same impression i got listening to him, this is come high quality shit comming from someone with this little subs i thought this guys could be more than 400K subs at least but damn this is soooo concise and like, entertaining too, and not too much random yapping and structured and again entertaining but to the point like what the hell did this guy come from!? thank you for your graceful descent ALittleSIMPle.
Great video! I think you're giving the devs a bit too much benefit of the doubt when it comes to QOL, and I do think at least some features aren't implemented because they just don't want to implement them rather than technical limitations, but I agree with everything else in the video. Very glad to see you mentioning the reviews, since a lot of people seem to think the review-bombing of other apps means that the 1* reviews of genshin during the anniversary don't count, and I'm happy to see someone actually understanding that the 1* reviews on genshin aren't invalidated because of some bozos going after google classroom.
Thank you! You're probably right, I can certainly see why some features are intentionally withheld, but I do try to lean on the optimistic side of things. Probably not something I should keep making a habit of xd
To be really fair, I've been hearing from the start that Genshin, being worked on the time Hoyo was just a startup, without having even a 100 of employees, did not had the best clean code and documentation practices, so the technical limitations actually really seem pretty plausible. The game getting the company as big as it is now while making it having a lot of new devs isnt that easy to change the bad practices from before without breaking the game.
@@joaomoreno307 Genshin is not hoyo's first game, not even 5th.. 1) legend of saha 2) fly me 2 the moon 3) Zombiegal kawaii 4) Houkai Gakuen 2 / Gun Girls Z 5) Honkai Impact 3rd 6) Tears of Themis 7) Genshin impact 8) HSR 9) ZZZ the most likely reason GI isnt getting QoL is because the development focus is always NEXT game, not current first HSR, and now ZZZ So less, about MHY not being able to QoL genshin, but rather the extra devs needed to be allocated to GI to work on QoL, since the core GI team needs to never stop working on characters and the needed amount of new/fresh content/areas to keep players there and spending on characters; will not be allocated/reallocated to GI because of current project: ZZZ; and of their games since GI has no competition, unlike the others even less fiscal reason to temporarily reallocate for QoL
my only disappointment is that there are too many people that just dont care for being treated like shit. I pray eithere Wuwa release, or HSR does something insane like another free 5star to really rile up genshin fans (and i am a genshin player i just want more gameplay...)
@@GGiGotHydra Yeah. White knights are a Big Problem. Literally calling it entitled to expect a Company to give free Gifts on Anniversary despite the fact most gacha games rarely reach their anniversary
@@GGiGotHydra i don't think that star rail releasing another free 5 star will really do anything, because tbh players that actually like genshin myself will keep playing even if we're in an abusive relationship with hoyoverse--we hate it enough to complain about it but not enough to stop playing lol really the only thing that would make hoyoverse be more generous to genshin players is competition (please wuthering waves be good); but it's really hard to compete with genshin simply based on its role in the whole open-world gacha genre, since it'd be hard for developers to compete against a behemoth like hoyoverse and its decades of experience
Thanks! Though, I admittedly spent a lot of time thinking about how I wanted to structure this video, so I wouldn't say common sense came quickly to me xd
@@ALittleSIMPle trust me, some folks who jump on the “Genshin is giving nothing” bandwagon exercise minimal thinking because they fall for the “more pulls free five star better anniversary” sales pitch. And when you tell them that HSR needs a bigger roster and incentivise you to pull more as opposed to Genshin, they will come up with “but F2P four star dps can do the same” while also failing to mention those people probably hard reset in HSR and do those things with five star light cones
@@chenjunnn "And when you tell them that HSR needs a bigger roster and incentivise you to pull more as opposed to Genshin" How's that working out for you now with the new "end game content"? 😂😂😂
You’re telling me google classroom is not a hoyoverse app? Would have fooled me. I thought Dr R was a google classroom exclusive , it fits perfectly. (I’m joking.)
13:28 that was me in Genshin 1st anniversary. As someone who never heard about gacha games before was wondering why people are complaining even after getting free 10 pulls 😂
i’m really glad my parents did not allow me to spend any money on any games at all. I used to beg my parents to get me atleast a small number of primogems but they would refuse. now that im a little bit older i think rationally on how to save primos and get the characters that i want
It's always a funny thing to me when I reflect back on it. I remember asking my mother why I couldn't do something and she'd always say "trust me, mommy knows best." She was always right.
@@ALittleSIMPle 16 and know my parents would never allow me to spend on any game, so I don't even bother asking as it would just end up troublesome. I always thought that when I get my own job I'd set aside a tiny budget for Genshin just because I enjoy the game so much, but even though I don't think about it at those times, I'm sure things my parents would urge me to listen to would come back and let me know that they were right. In a way it sucks, but it sucks more that being young makes you ignore them anyway lol 🥲. Btw loved your vid, surprisingly super high quality. It got me to sub!
Being told life lessons on patience and strategy by gambling sim in a video game is crazy. But same, I did spend some money and my parents never straight up not allow me to do it, they just gave me very little so I had to be smart about it... So I spent it all on getting 10 welkins in a row for the next year
@@ALittleSIMPle for me that is the WORST answer i can be given "i am the adult listen" "i am the parrent trust me" "i am God and i sied OBEY" i WILL rebell! but if tell me WHY i will ofton be oh thank you! thank you for protection and i will OBEY, but pull the "becuase i sied so" card and i WILL rebell!
@@NightmareRex6 Oh, I agree, I also love knowing why. I feel like there's no reason to withold the logic behind a decision since it teaches your kid to watch out for similar things in the future. But she was still always right xd
Except that we have free Yukong. You would know about this if you were playing HSR And yes, as another person correctly noted in the comments - where is free Tighnari?
@@broccoli5176 I believe the point was Imaginary units are sparse, not non-existent. There is likely no free Tighnari for the same reason Genshin wouldn't give us any other free 5* unit. We're stuck with our (cope) free Collei, instead. It seems the point of the comparison was lost, the idea behind whether Genshin could or couldn't give out a free 5* unit isn't related to Star Rail (just because Star Rail gave out a free unit doesn't mean Genshin would, too). I used Star Rail to emphasize their differences in both game mechanics and pull economy in an effort to provide a reason as to why we don't receive the same things. I like to believe that decisions are made with some kind of reasoning behind them and sometimes speculating is fun. And just to be extra-clear, I don't agree with MiHoYo. I may have provided reasons as to why I think things are the way they are, but I don't have to be happy about it.
You said you're setting yourself on fire, vut thisjia actually the best explanation od thia situation I've seen. Most people either say "this is proof that Genshin sucks and Star Raik is better" or "Genshin is so good that it doesn't need to spoil it's players". You actually took a critical analysis of the aituation. And for that, I applaud to you, good sir.
League and Dota make loads of sense. They both feature characters as "regularly released content" and organize them with consistent abilities and such. Like you could easily translate MOBA characters into a Genshin like setting aside from the fact they have an extra ability (in fact, since the old dev left, I hope they rework the MMO into a Gemshin style game, since it would work really well for League Lore and such). In fact, a lot of League players also play Genshin. You know how the Bennett Jean circle is called sunfire? That comes from a piece of armor called Sunfire Cape that does burn damage around your champion. And the OG top Freeze Team was called Morgana, named after a fallen angel sorceress whose known for one of the longest stuns in the game. So the general interest overlaps.
Your comment has humbled me. League and Dota do make a lot of sense, I think I was just hyper-focused on the open world & exploration aspects that I didn't even think of it at the time. Having also played League for a few years, I never made the Sunfire connection, either. At least I knew about Morgana, though. Thanks for your comment, my mind has been expanded!
@@ALittleSIMPle Yea, I dabbled into Paladins for the same hero motif of character style gameplay (paladins over overwatch cuz free and fantasy > scifi) and got used to noticing "borrowed concepts" between devs across a few games, since a few friends played Smite for another angle. And there's a few Pokemon Unite kits I'd love as League champs (namely Gardevoir, but Aurelion Sol seems to have adopted Charizard). So I actively grew interested in open world Zelda but with (real enemy variety, music, no rain slipping and) MM transformations as League champs that fills in my heart's hole for a "'competently written' RWBY anime".
Someone putting some effort and being rational enough to say something else than "hurr durr jenshin bad"? That's very rare when it comes to this subject. But hey, I'll repeat, if you are mad, then delete your account in protest. This is more efficient and better for you and anyone else than being obnoxious online.
@@ALittleSIMPle Indeed. If you want to send a message then delete your account stop having a toxic relationship with a company and stop extending your toxicity to those that are at peace. If those who bark will delete their accounts the Hoyo will feel that and if they care enough, they will have to improve each of their products to prevent their current and future player base from leaving.
@@Kiwi-AragaYou say that like the attachment people have gotten to the unique aspects of the game, their investment, and the addiction psychology applied in the game's design are just non-factors. Quitting is literally hard. Rationality alone doesn't override that. And to invalidate that is nothing more than being obnoxious in return.
The fact that you are the only one who's actually thinking about this logically and not memeing the hell out of this, is a breath of fresh air, i like seeing level headed CCs in this godforsaken community. I just wished the other "CCs" were at least a bit smart as you and not creating drama every millisecond when something genshin or hsr does. Anyways, W video. Looking forward to your future content
I realized this after one year of playing genshin, so I quite and never looked back. There is no point in keep staying in and complain about an abusive relationship. Genshin does everything in the psyc book to facilitate addiction to the game and the urge to spend. It's simply too much of a mental drain. Yes some of the game constent rivals tripple A titles, but not so much the long term gamesplay which is grindy, repetitive and unrewarding. Everything I want from genshin, I can get from watching few UA-cam videos when new story drops.
The Genshin story and lore are pretty interesting, it's good that we can get them from UA-cam videos and stuff. But I definitely agree with you, some things can be really exhausting...
I thought I was gonna miss out after I quit after 2.0, coming back a little during Baizhu's release it reminded me I am missing out on nothing. The character and lore is what I am interested in most, so lore-tubers are carrying my interest in Genshin Impact.
What exactly make you want to spend money? The Abyss? The Trailers? In most Gacha it's the pressure to keep up or the allure of new characters constantly bombarding you Also.. Hoe long did you play Genshin? Because for most saying I played a game for 2 to 3 years and then got bored seems ...fine I like Elden Ring I couldn't stomach playing it for thousands of hours
While a company's goal is to make money, you don't make money without customers. How do you get customers and, more importantly, repeat customers? Make them happy. I'm looking forward to Wuthering Waves.
Honestly, this is how i play genshin. Plays it, but when it starts to make me feel burned, imma ditch it and paints. You gotta know your limit. Genshin is wild, but your life and future even matters. And thats how i manage to do story quests on auto while i do my homework. Its a win win.
praying for wuthering waves to be good. i just started in november and im already bored with the lack of endgame content where i can actually use my characters
Very great video and very informative, I always know that it's only their marketing tactics. I am a Genshin and Star Rail player and I have been playing both since their launch but I take breaks. Both are really good games and I am tired of the genshin could never drama. I used to hate Genshin bc of the drama and starting to hate HSR and the players too because of the genshin could never thing. But I realize I don't hate the games, but I really dislike the communities attacking each other and boosting their own egos, downplaying each other and even downplaying certain characters, very rampant everywhere and they do it to justify their bias etc. Better lookout for people who makes sense and who are not because if it's real discussion and real criticism, I will be happy to talk about that. It's better if I stay away from toxicity and just enjoy playing. I enjoy both games because they're really great games and they put a lot of time and thoughts in the stories, gameplay, lore and worldbuilding, characters, music and environment.
TY for your point 13:45. I play both games as f2p, so im clearly not the one mihoyo wants to market to spend more but I benefit the most from free gifts. But holy hell, every time I see a cc claim "we're getting 50 pulls or a free 5* selector at starrail's anniversary" I cringe. Cause I know they're the same people who're gonna cry and say it's a horrible game when we don't get it. The standard keeps raising due to almost delusional expectations. I just hope it isn't as bad as Genshin's was. It really is a shame and I'm glad to see you brought it up (cause idk, maybe other cc are just caught up in the hype and don't understand what they're saying). Great video. audio was a bit loud for the spiral stuff I couldn't quite hear you but still, good work with the charts.
Oh hey, someone actually showed some of the math behind the rewards, it always annoyed me when people call Star Rail 'generous', but when I do the math behind how much I'd get with a subscription on average it's the same and even worse due to a lot more characters being introduced and the game's more RNG elements and steeper powercreep. Appearances are everything, who cares if you get less by math when the game gives ten free rolls a patch, most people won't look at the math anyway ;P
i mean, in the end, the more roll, more dopamine, and genshin could at least give more wishes on the standard banner, and that wouldnt break the economy
I mean, just because there are more powercreep doesn't mean the older character instantly obsolete tho. Same like genshin, literally fontaine character are more powerful but will you say the older character become obsolete? No right?. And honestly if anything SR, have better balancing than Genshin, so older character in SR is more viable than in genshin. Second, most of the time in HSR, even they release 2 new characters every patch, you can't go wrong with both of them anyway, so there's no "ugh i want to pull this character but he/she sucks" sentiment.
@@pon9035 Fontaine characters are powerful but don't feel exactly the same as any of their older counterparts. Lyney and Klee work best in mono Pyro but one is a bow user the other is a catalyst user; Wriothesley and Ganyu both have Melt teams but one punches and the other aims charged shots. Neuvillette and Navia add refreshing playstyles while Furina literally revived team wide healers, including Qiqi. Can't say the same about Yanqing HSR has been releasing new characters without adding new gameplays or elements which results in blatant powercreeping (Sparkle > Bronya). Have you seen Acheron kit? And because it's AFK/turn-based there's nothing players can do to manually spice things up. Worrying less about powercreeping allows you to not feel obligated to pull for everyone to keep up with meta. Once you get 2 solid teams (8-10 characters) to clear Abyss you can pull for who you like. Some units even future proof your account like Nahida, Yelan, Kazuha, Furina, and the holy trinity of 1.0 broken 4 star Bennet-Xingqiu-Xiangling.
@@pon9035 The powercreep in Genshin isn't as steep at all, to this day even the weakest older characters have a use either due to their weapon, on-field or off-field, role, element, application, energy or mechanics outside of damage. Fontaine characters don't overlap with any of the older characters nor do they push the damage limit other than Neuvillette, but it's only by a single-digit percent in 3 years, compared to Star Rail's 8 months yet the newest damage dealers push the damage cap by double-digit percent better damage numbers and even the tanks(Fu Xuan) and supports(Ruan Mei/Sparkle). Star Rail's only mechanics outside of roles, buffs and debuffs are shield elements, but those are increasing every patch and so are the HP pools of enemies whilst new characters also have an ever increasing damage cap, more shield-breaking and overlap with other characters in what they do resulting in clearly better choices which if it keeps going will make older characters obsolete that can't even clear the hardest content at maximum investment. You can see it in 4* challenges, people still find ways to clear 36* Abyss in Genshin with 4* characters even without 5* weapons or Constellations, yet in Star Rail to even have a chance at it you micro-optimize for specific chances with E6 4* to even work which wasn't the case at release, the game is out for 8 months and powercreep is already felt, Genshin is 3+ years and powercreep is barely felt.
Been playing and enjoying both games though I prefer Genshin's gameplay, I am a little sad that not many QoL or End Game content in it. But people still dump on Genshin's players just because they're enjoying the game. I think it's probably due to a mentality like "my game is now better than your game", HSR players and Genshin players overlaps and lots of them moved to HSR now, so that happens. It's funny that hoyo devs are the ones at fault here but their players are at each other's throat. It's better to criticise the game, not the players, after all hoyo is the winner again here. Both games has flaws and from my experience both sides are so bad at taking criticism. I hope Genshin gets a competitor soon so they'll finally start doing something.
Mhy's CEO is also Genshin's lead producer, Cai Haoyu HSR's lead producer is David Jiang it isn't hard to figure out why Genshin does w/e tf it wants while HSR actually has to respect its playersbase
Finally someone who understand. I can`t believe the reason why all yaping about we want a 5* and more pulls like starrail. And my thoughts was same as the creator`s ones. Untill mihoyo didn`t see the big L in their profits from jenshin, they would never gives us more then average income or other benefits or dr. L ratio. I can only imagine what players would think if they get a free 5* but u can choose only Qiqi or Dehya.
I love you bro, i'm not famous enough to tell this to the internet, only to my friend. I've seen some of the most stupidest arguments over this, and i've always known why both games have different economies. Btw I wanted to point out that the reason they gave a free *5 is because they won TGA and genshin only got nominated. Literally, i have seen nobody talking about that. They just bitch genshin and dump on it I love to play both games, and i don't really care about the gacha aspect of genshin anyway. So we're good 😄
@@ALittleSIMPle Personally, for me just enjoy what you like. Quit when you're tired. Comparing games or having arguments between games are just wasting your time. People don't have much time to play these games anyway because they have work to do or something else to do. I'm glad atleast someone like you noticed the problem and put a response to the internet. I'll just play whatever, because whatever makes me happy I'll play it! Hoyoverse games are free too so that's always in my mind when playing free games with such quality.
4:14 the exact same can be said about hsr lol. i actually beat PF 4 thanks to my lvl 70 underbuilt herta, and ofc the FREE dr ratio paired with pela and guinafen(with a couple of eidolons) helps you immensely through the game. not to mention some of the best characters are 4*s: QQ - amazing aoe DPS whos SP issues go down with eidolons Tingyun - arguably SS tier harmony unit with the energy and buffs she gives Pela - her aoe def debuff is cracked, and she can remove buffs with her skill. also SUPER sp friendly Lynx - great healer, she heals less than the average 5* but her aoe cleanse and the fact she's free is amazing sampo - ofc my biased ass has to add him. if you have kafka but no black swan or ruan mei (or worse, both 💀), building him is basically a necessity LOL and tbh every new unit being good in star rail is a good thing imo. being disappointed with a new characters kit has always been a bummer in genshin but rarely happens with star rail, and the game isn't hard enough for powercreep to ruin anything. i have no jing liu and rarely use my dhil but get through content just fine
i agree with everything else tho, im just bothered when ppl think hsr can't also be completed with 4* characters and free LCs. not in a 🤬angry way but it gives me an opportunity to be nerdy lmao
all in all i think hsr vs genshin is a great example of how important competition is. bc genshin is the only popular game of its kind they have room to be lazy and hardly listen to players, while HSR has both competition and its older sister to live up to, therefore much more catering to players and giving out more rewards
Ppl that hated Genshin and think that makes them cool, called many games Genshin killers but Genshin stayed strong because most players just play the game. And now they bring HSR against Genshin from same company as Genshin killer. Stupidity of those ppl lol
Honestly The genshin playerbase loves to complain about anything. "Oh why is this character so weak" "why is this character so strong" " the new triple banner is probably going to require 2 fate points wont be worth it " it requires 1 why not make it 0" etc etc 😂 how can you ever keep them satisfied.. and the only thing they're achieving with this childish drama is advertising the game in a way , cause if you really want to give HoYo the low blow best just stop playing the game entirely
Yeah, if you want to tell a company you're not happy with something, the best way to do it is quit! It's tough to keep everyone happy, but I do feel like I notice some of Genshin's playerbase seems to be particularly loud sometimes xd
"How can you keep them satisfied" you ask as if Hoyo have ever tried to appease complaints. The only time they did react to them was the Zhongli fiasco where they got spammed by the Chinese players with invoice requests, which they're legally obligated to provide, but realistically couldn't with what the sheer number of requests was, so they could've had the shit sued out of them. It took a figurative gun to their head for them to listen. And quitting isn't something you just do. People are invested, they're attached to the good things about the game, they crave more of what makes the game unique and they can't get from any other game, and there's straight up addiction psychology applied in the game's design. You don't simply logic your way out of that, that's not how humans function. People want this abusive relationship to drop just the abuse part, not also the relationship part. Yeah, the whining isn't helping, but your invalidation of people's frustration is a plain and simple insult. And your own advice goes for you too - just don't watch the whiny videos, don't read the complaints in comments sections and the reddit and Hoyolab posts. By responding with shit like this you yourself choose to participate in this drama you scoff at. Nothing is forcing you to see it, scroll past it. But some part of you doesn't want to, does it.
meanwhile i just enjoy HSR more because i prefer the turn-base gameplay and because of how the path work, i can enjoy build up different team to play around than just stick to the main team for the open world. Also because HSR doesn't have climbing system so character can wear a long dress and look sexy, just look at Bronya Rand
the argument that "you can 36* the abbys with 4*" is so overdone. Yes you can, but only if you're a fricking cyber sportsman and inwested in those 4* like crazy with their constilations and preferably 5* weapons. I want every single person who says this to 36* the abyss with C0-C3 4* with 4* weapons on them and see how it feels, I dare y'all...And if you can do all of the in Genshin, who said you can't do it in HSR?
Hmm, I'm not so sure. I can do it on both of my accounts, and on my friends' accounts, all of varying Constellations. I also never said you couldn't do it in HSR, but HSR will require more investment across all of your units. Let's say you run a National team in Genshin and your Bennett isn't particularly well-geared, he only only stays on the field for about two seconds. Outside of his field time, he's in no danger. In Star Rail, all units have a chance of being attacked (unless you taunt with Fire TB, but there are still enemy AoE attacks or the chance your taunt fails), it's not like you can just dodge. Some higher level content with faster enemies can sometimes dogpile one unit if you're particularly unlucky. Sure, you can gamble with RNG and be successful, but I've played both Genshin and Star Rail since their launch, and I've had an easier time pushing Spiral Abyss early in Genshin's lifecycle compared to Star Rail's Memory of Chaos. That being said, I've felt more of an impact on my account's power level when pulling in Star Rail compared to pulling in Genshin. The point of the argument was to say that Star Rail has different modes of endgame combat that play to the strengths of different units, so a player can feel significant benefits from a more diverse roster. This is not to say this is better or worse than Genshin's system, the point of the video was never to call one better than the other. They're just different, and it's important that the pull economy is adjusted for this.
HSR fans are the ones who started this because these specific HSR players are Genshin players with superiority complex so they "hate" Genshin because it's a popular thing to do and shit of Genshin fanbase is an easy way to boost your ego. But bro, I agree with every point you made. It's hilarious to see how people really think HSR team loves, respects and appreciates them like how naive do you have to be to believe that when a company pressures you to spend money with their scammy tactics? "Oh wow, they give you 13 more pulls, so it's not a scam anymore, trust me bro, I totally respect myself more than that Genshin player" Also, gotta add something from my experience in playing both games. I'm a collector. I like to pull everyone. In Genshin I have been pulling every single character since the second Venti banner for almost 3 years now. Usually they have one new unit per patch, and I can chill and save in another half. In Star Rail they always do more. I can't just take a break and save on the second half of the patch, I have to spend even more money to get everyone, and unlike Genshin, HSR actually wants you to get as much as you can. "Oh but you can beat everything with level one Arlan yada yada" spare the bullshit, some ppl just have no idea how hard it is to pull off because HSR is extremely luck dependant even in it's combat and "endgame". You didn't roll that one blessing? Sucks to suck, now you won't clear with your level 1 Arlan. You didn't get this one curio? Sucks to suck, rerol. It's not the same level as Genshin. You did not roll Jingliu? LMAO it's gonna be fun to see you try take down these 2 bosses with Ice being the only common weakness. Unless you want to build your Herta... but don't expect it to be good in MOC 12
woah this is the best discussion about genshin could never on yt. not only you give insight on business prespective and critical thinking, you also gave an easy solution. 😅
basically, what i'm hearing here is one game has considerably more effective mechanical and incentive design, and the other kinda looked like botw when it started and still has zero competition. (wuthering waves please pull through)
Ive spent 10$ total on genshin and I’ve definitely gotten way more than 10$ value out of it… I don’t really play other gachas so maybe expectations are really so drastically different but it’s hard to see where other people are coming from when they complain. I’ve tried other gachas, even Star Rail, but the grind and power creep is just oppressive in every one of them. Genshin might be stingier with the pulls but its monumentally more generous with giving out content.
I've put down some money on Genshin, I also feel like the value I've gotten was definitely worth it. I think in terms of content pushes, Genshin's pretty spot-on with their formula.
same here. i spent 10$ for two months of the moon blessing, been playing for some time, and i don't feel the need to pull. there are banners i am waiting for (hence the 10$ moons) but it's not a big deal and the experience is overall positive. the game is predatory and uses a lot of tricks to make players pay though, so the criticism in this regard is justified, but the game content itself is totally enjoyable even as a f2p, and especially so if you're more of a casual player like me
Something i want to add . What people on social media may consider "a popular opinion" ,sometimes may forget that most people who play the game don't engage with that said games social and communities. This is more apparent on big Big communities like Genshing ,where its side can have a different popular opinion . The reason why we get alot more Qol for new players rather artifact loudouts, is becaude maybe its not the most requested thing . Not everyone has multiple builds for their characters ,so most wont ask for it .
This is true. I assume Genshin still has a significant amount of new players coming in, which makes an automatic artifact equip system a sensible thing to add. It might not be what veteran players want, but I'm sure it's helpful for newer people that may be overwhelmed by all of Genshin's menus and mechanics.
Except that things like "artifact recommendations" are just bad for games like Genshin where 99% of the players are casual. Remember that all the "statistics" that are reflected to beginners are compiled based on the decisions of other players about what they should put on the character. It's just a meaningless mechanic that doesn't help in any way. People in the Genshin community like to look for excuses like, "oh, it's not added because those who need it are a minority". But shouldn't games listen to their entire audience? To do something only for one part of the audience, turning a blind eye to the other... something tells me that this leads to the leaving of another part of the audience. Who could stay, no?
@@broccoli5176 how is it exactly bad? Like it helps them not making stupid decisions, I don't see how that's bad. Also in a entertainment industry like gaming ,most of the time you shouldn't hear all of your audience ,. You can't appeal or satisfy everyone and it's more important to prioritize things most of your playerbase likes ,instead of a few . Otherwise you will stretch your self thin and no amount of money will save you .
@@broccoli5176 I agree that the artifact recommendations are not optimal, but in a game where 99% of the players are casual and using casual builds, it will likely work "well enough" for other casual people utilizing the same casual mechanics. People that don't know what they're doing will at least have a place to start. I don't believe it's realistic to appeal to an entire audience. You can't make everyone happy because some people just like or want different things. Even if you could hypothetically appeal to everyone, it still makes the most sense to prioritize the majority.
@@Dojafishwell the issue with stat fed systems in a game where 90% of players are casuals is that the menu can be fed bad information and by extension give new players bad information. So if you look at it that way it helps nobody.
overall really great video and mostly speaks out my thoughts on both communities fighting each other, while volunteering themselves on being abused by mihoyo.
One thing to note is that Genshin's QoL isn't even that bad compared to HSR. Upgrading and level characters are great. you can hold the item and it'll automatically and rapidly increase the amount. in HSR you have to spam click if you don't want to use the auto system which always use the lowest tier item first. You can also hold LMB and drag for quickly selecting artifacts to sacrifice. Can't do that with relics. And while HSR released with the redeploy expedition thing, Genshin added it later and had a better version. Instead of a redeploy for each expedition, genshin allowed you to claim all and redeploy all. HSR will finally add that in 2.1. And Genshin did address a lot of the QoL complaints like the crafting table being blocked by NPCs, or underground map, item slots, etc. The QoL complaints about genshin is just confirmation bias. They look at the stuff HSR had that Genshin didn't but forget all the stuff that contradicts this viewpoint. And things like auto-play or not needing to talk to NPCs for completing certain tasks is because the games are different genres. Genshin is open world with action combat, those just can't be implemented without detracting from the experience as a whole. Also, Genshin's camera work for story quests is just so much better. Its dynamic, they focus on the faces when characters talk, they find good angles to transition, give panoramic shots etc. HSR is so stiff and half the characters talking have their back facing the camera. As far as people comparing the story go, I think they both have a similar-ish track record. Liyue and Inazuma was ok but quite flawed, Mondstadt was mid, Sumeru and Fontaine were great. For HSR, Belobog was great, Loufu was dropped the ball hard, and so far, Penacony been great. So, both are kind of half-half storytelling wise.
Something about the "League and Dota" thing is that those options are not necessarily there as feedback/comparison points, but they are also for Hoyo to figure out their existing playerbase's preferences (i.e. What % of our playerbase also likes this other category of game?). What for, you ask? For future products! After all, making a new product in the category that you *know* your existing customer base is interested in results in a lot less risk for Hoyo, since they can be basically guaranteed that these parts of the customer base will try it out and help generate hype, among other things, compared to having to carve out an entirely new playerbase from nothing
You make a good point! Thanks for bringing that to my attention. Another person commented that League and Dota make a lot of sense since all of those games follow a character release schedule and it's important to see how players react to different kinds of units from different styles of games. I'm kicking myself for missing these points, I think I was too focused on the open-world aspects of the gameplay. Thanks for the comment!
My Short Answer. Genshin is Casual Action, where every Character are powerful enough for late game, where even I use Lisa even though I have Raiden Shogun for a flavored Team, or using my Lisa's high Elemental Mastery. Star Rail is Tactical Strategy, where you might need a diverse set of Character to tackle late game.
And Honkai 3rd is a character action game somewhere in between (though I think people bring up that it's become more "unga bunga big numbers" as of late, supposedly compared to Punishing Gray Raven especially, a game I still haven't tried yet but was interested in). HI3 Abyss is even more brutal than Genshin's, though IIRC the latter half of that game's main story lets you use rentals
Finally someone with a brain thanks for saying this outloud for everyone to listen, people seem to think that Genshin Devs are lazy but the reality is it's an open world Gacha game that is competing with AAA Games ofc it wouldn't be throwing new features at our faces every damn time the code for a real open world game is far more complex compared to semi open world games like HI3rd and HSR which I play both of those too, also let's all be honest HSR only got good story after Luofu and now Penacony is the best meanwhile it's gameplay shouldn't even be compared since it's literally a turn based game and not a open world game, also HSR is way more pay to win compared to Genshin where you could continue your gameplay even in Abyss using just 4 stars also its way more free to play than it looks, not to mention it's actually fun to explore in Genshin compared to HSR where you can't even jump also let's not forget you can't go beyond the open roads given in HSR for some reason heck HI3rd now has jump feature and what not 😂 when is HSR going to implement that feature, Also I needed to mention this but isn't the way HSR Devs make the player more interested feel downright like bribing and it feels like everyone inside Hoyo discusses all this before hand so that they can shift players from its other games into the one where they want you to be which is hella manipulative either way I like all three of them but HSR only started to feel good to me after Penacony meanwhile I loved Genshin since forever and Honkai Impact is the actual goat hoping that Wuthering waves is actually good
It seems manipulative, but honestly, it's smart business-practice. As a company, they want to make money. If someone's gonna quit their game, they're not making any more money from that person, so the next best thing is to funnel your quitting players into other games (also made by you.) Giving away freebies isn't necessarily something I would say is strictly bribing, either. Many gachas do it for a number of different reasons - it does a lot for business, but it could also be a genuine expression of good will. Not to say I know for certain which it is, or if it's both, I'm mostly speculating xd
Another reason why genshin has a vastly different monetary philosophy is due to the fact that the two CEOs oversee the different projects in the company. One of them oversees Honaki impact and Honkai star rail, and the other oversees genshin. They both have very different ideas of what makes a game engaging.
The fomo in star rail is much higher than in genshin. I dont have even one fontaine 5 star but i can still easily clear abyss and enjoy genshin. I just got nahida after a year and she made abyss much easier. Apart from furina, i dont feel pressure to pull any fontaine characters because my xiangling hit soo hard.
It's a funny thing, sometimes I feel like I have to wait too long for the character I want in Genshin. In Star Rail, I feel like I'm pulling (or trying to) almost every other patch.
One of the reasons is because Star Rail just have better 5 star quality, the 5 star are clearly better than the 4 stars. Genshin however, a lot of the 5 stars are just straight up weaker than the 4 stars one(tbf this mostly only applies to the original 4 stars). Yae was weaker than Fischl on release, no one uses Yoimiya because she uses similar comp as Xiangling and she’s just better. Fischl, Xiangling, Bennet, and Xinqiu was mistakenly made too strong that just only 4 of them can clear the abyss if you sweat enough.
yes right now in genshin you might be able to clear abyss without pulling the newest 5 star but thats because you already have like 3 teams fully built at least, if we were to compare in the right way lets compare genshin first year abyss and hsr first year end game modes, yes hsr has more of a requirement but it is only slight, i personally am a f2p player yet i miss only 2 stars every rotation of moc and full cleared every pf (except for the dot one where i got 9 because i haven't invested in dot yet) taking that into account, i played genshin since around day 3 but i could only 36 star abyss during sumeru, and 33 stars was a dream up until end of inazuma because i simply did not have 2 teams fully built 🤓☝️that said as a veteran gacha player genshin could afford to be a little more generous, having no competition doesn't mean you can't just show a little appreciation to your loyal players
star rail getting a free 5 star isn't much of a deal, since in that game, it is turnbased and you need epecfic characters(like dr ratio) to beat and weakness break the enemies as opposed to genshin , where a level one character can kill a level 90 enemy given enough time(not saying that starrail couldn't just that it will take even longer)
actually, in HSR you can brute force any enemy with any unit so long as you have the sustains to not die. There are no hard immunities unlike genshin, where if you bring a hydro catalyst against a hydro slime or hydro abyss mage or other hydro immune enemy, you're not killing it no matter what. That said, Dr Ratio is a cracked unit and holy man am I happy I got given him for free. Completely decimates anything and doesn't even have the major downside most hunts have of being strictly single target, since he can dual target quite well.
Even if them giving ratio was a stunt the thing is they still did it they could have just released a 4 star and given it out on on release with a 5-10 pull in the mail
You’ve got a new sub here, these are all the points I’ve been making about the business of things, but people would rather just tell me I’m a genshin bootlicker, how I’m wrong, and how they do these things out of the goodness of their hearts in star rail
Me bruteforcing MOC with Seele and Jingyuan and clearing floor 12. Wha- what? Oh wait thunder manifestation! Surely my tazer team could compete with that! Oh the hydro Tulpa! Surely my freeze team could handle that. Hydro and Cryo abyss heralds in one floor! Surely my hyperbloom team could deal with that. Oh wow 18 enemies in triple waves! Surely grouping them isnt needed! No. Both games need require specific units and gears to clear the game. Genshin 4 star showcases are literal retry spams with r5 4 star weapons and nearly c4-c6 characters. Which is almost equivalent to a c1-2 5 star in genshin’s pull value. Now ask Jing Liu players how much they changed her teams/gear since they got Jingliu. I was able to clear moc10-12 with a f2p account since patch 1.3 up until now. Genshin’s meta is also changing because of the damage output needed now compared to before. And you definitely dont need a damage dealer/healer and a buffer to replace your sub dps to gain more team damage, right?
I did say "with the exception of some hard counters" xd But after giving your comment some thought, I think I agree with your point and I failed to see a bias on my end when I was putting this video together. I've been able to clear Spiral Abyss 12 comfortably with 4* units (some have high Constellations, some don't) with few or no retries but I didn't account for time investment in my artifacts, which is a pretty significant factor when comparing two games that released years apart. There's a pretty good chance I'll feel the same about Star Rail some way down the line. Regarding your point about Jingliu, I'll admit I've been mostly vibing through Memory of Chaos, but my experience with Pure Fiction was different (I think I mentioned "all forms of endgame content" during the video). I was able to clear with her, but not by a particularly large margin in a number of different compositions. I found I was able to push a higher score with Herta and Himeko, which told me "brute force works, diversity is probably easier." Of course, skill issue is definitely a thing and I'm absolutely prone to that. But I do agree with you and I'll admit my analysis on this part was short-sighted. The next time a Genshin vs. Star Rail fiasco happens, I'll keep your thoughts in mind. Thanks for the input!
Brother, most accounts are 36* capable after 4-5 months of playing regardless of who you pull. I guarantee you that a top% skilled player could 36* star abyss with your account given a f2p month. It really is just a lack of game knowledge that keeps people from clearing stuff.
@@musicaltarrasque I’m a day one player and my first full clear was last month. Only reason I’m getting through is Furina and Jean. Besides, Abyss is such a small part of the game. I’m not opposed to more endgame necessarily, but I do think Genshin is targeted at folks with somewhat limited time or a desire to play or do other things. It’s not designed in any way to encourage continuous play.
Jingliu comparison is pretty disengenious, Hu Tao vape + International existed since 1.3 and steamrolled in every Abyss rotation. Genshin does have checks that exclude units of element/weapon type, but the other side usually works just fine for the excluded type, though Freeze in particular is being shafted a lot in general.
@@nagorner3791 not really tho, hu tao players had to properly go with boss fights or few enemy/waves or even adjust team members to actually properly go against multi enemy waves (not even mentioning her artifact investments that are so horrible during earlier patches). meanwhile national had tons of variations and the team is very constellation reliant, the team suffers heavily when you dont do your setups properly and you dont have your key components. (c6 xq and C4 xl). If youre comparing investments, HSR still wins with JL and its not even a year. Jingliu only cares for a c0 bronya which you can guarantee with the 300 pull freebie.( my f2p account got the 300 free pulls from just playing dailies and not even doing the major events) then you can run her with anyone. Single target or aoe, JL can brute force it, even ice resistant enemies can be beaten down with sw. She can run most sets and just needs a bit of attack, crit damage and speed. Like the investment levels are insane because of her free damage buffs and crit rate. You can mix and match supports with her and she will do fine. The best thing or part about her teams is they barely need any investment. Bronya just needs crit damage. Pela just needs effect hit rate. The sustainr just needs HP or whatever stat they want. national early variants- BENNY- HP, ENERGY RECHARGE (c1) XL - EM, ATK, CRIT, ER (c4) CHILDE - ATK, CRIT, EM KAZUHA/SUCROSE - 3X EM (the only easy one) hutao- EM, HP, CRIT, (c1 arguably) XQ- ATK, ER, CRIT, (C6) Zhongli - HP, OR ENERGY (the only easy one) Flex- (easy or not, depending on who it is) We are not even talking about weapon investments and how F2P JL teams are compared to your genshin team picks.
i loved this A LOT. i spend a lot of time in Genshin and love the game. yes i hate the less rewards. but i love the characters the scenery and overall the story. and i HATE telling my friends i like Genshin because as soon as i utter that word ill hear Genshin bashing which is mostly just stupid arguments which don’t make sense. so yea bless you
I’m a free to play player because I feel uncomfortable spending money on a game that won’t be around for many many years, I may not become a free to play player when Furina returns because I need her but I’m gonna be saving up intertwined fates and primogems until then. That will probably end badly because I do not know the most effective ways to get primogems, I mean I haven’t even started the Liyue Archon quest because I’m at adventure rank 22
Something thats been pissing me off about this phrase has been over the anniversary rewards that happened after this and people saying it... Genshin literally did, both games give 20 pulls. People are just being dicks now and trying to degrade genshin. Thank you for being someone that's smart and uses facts and logic with the situation, someone clearly used the free Dr. Ratio to listen to some of his classes
Yeah, I think a lot of people kind of forgot about the bulk of the free pulls we received and primarily fixated on the three additional ones and the "thanks for your loyalty" message. I think people mostly just like to make noise about things xd
@@ALittleSIMPle I've been seeing a lot of people say that hsr has 10x the anniversary rewards saying that genshin gave 3 in total and hsr 30 (it includes the base 10 per patch, so it's 20) so just... Ugh. Those 3 pulls weren't even part of the anniversary event, they happened like 4 months after. So they're attributing rewards that weren't even part of the anniversary to the anniversary, while ignoring the other rewards that were in both lantern rite and the actual one There's just so much information and people being unable to read
@@aetriandimitri190genshins 20 pulls on the first anniversary dont count, only the first 10 are valid to bring up, cause a massivd uproar was needed for the other 10, which was just gonna be a paid pack. Star rail players didn't need to do such things. And there is the special events star rail is getting for the anniversary, which genshin didn't have
@@vnmememan8657 how do those 20 pulls not count? Yes they were earned from an uproar and then kept for following years, why would star rail that's the same company not follow that same trend. If genshin made a mistake, fixed it, and then hsr does the exact same fix, you can't say hsr did it better just because it didn't repeat the same mistake The only anniversary event hsr is getting that's actually dedicated to the anniversary is a single event that gives 1000 jades, the same as most events. That's not a big increase especially as genshin still has events running on its own anniversary regardless of if they are flavored on the anniversary
@@aetriandimitri190 10 of the 20 dont count, the first 10 do, not all 20 dont. The star rail didn't give the 20 because they knew of the disaster with genshins first anniversary, they would have done it regardless
Never thought such a DETAILED ANALYSIS to be told by such a small content creator lol.. Now i really feel like all those BIG CC's are just doing nothing but trying to juice others by saying "GENSHIN COULD NEVER", but you literally showed the real reason why "GENSHIN COULD NEVER", because it just DOESNT HAVE TO.. Well, I can only describe this whole video, a WONDERFUL ANALYSIS REPORT that many cant even see. Idk how to describe, but i feel like you did a really amazing job to let the world know the real truth behind why star rail gets more pulls, and why genshin dont... even comparing honkai impact 3 is too much, like if we missed we missed, bcoz pity resets xD. Thank you for making this video, TRULY MIND BLOWING AND INFORMATIVE!! ❤✨
Dr. Ratio was a really big surprise and an awesome marketing move, but I think it set some people's expectations too high for the future. Now I see a bunch of people making ridiculous predictions for future events. A limited 5 star banner for the anniversary? Sure, it seems feasible, but I wouldn’t be surprised if they didn’t. Though I've seen predictions that range from that, to them giving out a free Acheron in 2.1, to them giving out a 5 star on March 7th. It is a bit worrying that some people might get angry at the game because any future rewards don’t compare to free 5 stars despite how enjoyable the game is.
Super high quality vid and really funny towards the end :"D you've put into words my entire thoughts on the genshin vs star rail discussion I am also hopefuly that wuwa is a great game, some competition will do both games good and as far as fomo goes it's been liberating to figure out I really don't absolutely need every other new unit in genshin so now I prioritize welkin-only spoiling my faves got Furina and her weapon last, saving for Arlecchino and her weapon too now (50 pity + guaranteed + 180 wishes and counting up!) I still want other units like Kazuha and Xianyun but I can wait for reruns, if they come at an opportune time so I've become comfortable with the amount I spend on genshin and as a result I'm not up in flames about the lack of rewards anymore, I just appreciate what we get and don't get my hopes up about the rest (like people asking for endgame content since 1.0) not that other people don't have the right to be mad but the only real choices we have are play (and if you want to, spend) or quit
crazy that even the latest revenue of Genshin Worldwide is almost 90 million Genshin's Boycott did do shit as long Casual and Whales don't leave Genshin it will never die/change these "gamers" / "hard core players" / "F2P" even if all of them go to wuthering wave Genshin will probably still gonna earn 80-90 million again
I do think Genshin may be at a point where it's too big to fail (without some significant force), but at least with Wuthering Waves, we'll have more options!
@@ALittleSIMPle yeah wuthering wave have a lot of option but my problem is i dont feel anything to all Waifus design wise they're Generic good at best but not HOT like Genshin, Star Rail, Zenless Zone Zero, Girls Frontline 2 even Grand Blue fantasy Relink = Zeta and Narmaya have hotter design not even waifu game Snow break waifu is bit better or the same level of Generic waifu design of wuthering waves
Even if a Genshin content creator who is aware of the drama make a poll, the majority of their community will say that they won't quit Genshin. Can you believe it? Even people involved in the Genshin community, people who follow content creators and, by extension, the spiral of negativity that comes with them, don't want to quit Genshin. If they can't even take a stance, I think it's fair to assume that the average, casual Genshin players doesn't give a f about drama and negativity. Those crybabies are just a drop of water in an ocean
The easiest way for Mihoyo to keep expectations at a manageable level would be to properly communicate with the playerbase; if they were to make it clear that they were giving away Dr Ratio for free as a celebration for the game's first award, then there would be no room for misunderstandings, nor would there be any reason to expect them to do it again.
If Star Rail didn’t bore me so much gameplay-wise I’d definitely play it again. I like the humor, the side quests (there was a really good one that had a guy who was waiting for his partner and I think it had something to do with him waiting to see her again in the far future? Not sure, you could choose to have him move on or wait, might be wrong tho) I like the story, and some of the characters (I love Herta she’s such a prick 😂) the music ain’t Genshin but it’s pretty decent too. But when I actually open up the app, I get so bored from the combat. I don’t think it has that much to do with it being turn-based, I’ve enjoyed turn-based games before like Limbus Company for instance. But I’d obviously like an Action RPG style more. And I think the lack of truly CO-OP content hurts the game a lot for me. Part of what kept me in Genshin was all the friends I made there who would help and just do dumb shit with me. I just feel lonely when I play Star Rail.
Every “Genshin could never” gives me 2 thoughts 1. “Honkai impact >>>” 2. “Star rail could never shut up” 3. (I was lying, last one) man, I wish there was just peace between these games 4. (Ok, last one for real this time) man, I want them wishes😭
While I love to criticize genshin I have felt for some time now people online really lack the capacity of seeing nuance between games. I am all for the boicot if it really worked (It didn't and probably won't in the future) but genshin as a game is more fun to me, specially after the change in daily comissions, and in 3 years I have used like 5 dollars. I barely log to starrail this patch like I have logged for the 10 free pulls, started pentacony story and not much more I am currently thinking on unistaling it as it also drains my laptop a ton more than genshin for some reason.
Yeah, it's odd, I also noticed that Star Rail seems to be more resource-heavy than Genshin does. It seemed unintuitive so I thought it was just me xd But yeah, as much criticism as Genshin gets, I do feel like I gain a lot of entertainment just from playing the game. Glad to see you're still having fun!
Nice vid. Lots of points people aren’t making. While it’s true Genshin is top dog I think their behavior might make them more vulnerable to competition than they need to be. I wouldn’t be looking forward to WuWa in the same way if Genshin had done literally anything for combat endgame.
I agree! A lot of my Wuthering Waves hype is built by what I hope it can do over Genshin, but I suppose I could be setting myself up for disappointment. Either way, having more options is always nice!
A really good quality analysis, man. For 2k subs (while comments say you just had 200...) it's actually very amazing! Immediately subscribed, i hope it's gonna be a ride! Have a good day and Goodluck.
@@vault29ait's subjective. HSR for me is incredibly shallow and doesn't scratch my turn based game itch whatsoever. Especially not after coming off the absolute emotional rollercoaster that is P3 . Penacony just feels so uninteresting in comparison. That isn't to say genshin is any better but I'm just giving you some perspective on how hsr really isn't that much better of a game than genshin is for some of us. Especially not when 90% of my time on HSR is spent clicking the autobattle button anyway.
Thank you for dropping some facts. You share my opinion about almost everything you've talked about (is it really opinion though? or are we just using our brains unlike the others) but I learned a few things like why did they choose Dr Ratio? First of all it's because it's a guy and guys bring less money and he's between 3 hot mommies and right before the 2.0 update. It's a Yoimiya situation but without the waifu element. Imagine the catastrophic sales.
I took a look at this month's sales chart for both games and I think it's incredible how Honkai managed to almost double its sales globally. In the meantime, Genshin only ended up with a loss of 10 million, I like to be positive and think that for a community like Genshin to be able to reduce all of this in 6 weeks is a step forward. However, we all know that it is only when 4.6 comes out that they will become the most profitable game again
I was a little hesitant to do an analysis on sales 'cause I can never tell how accurate those charts are (some of them only include iOS, some are only by region, et cetera), but thanks for looking into it! It's kind of a shame that we have to hope a game fails before expecting it to get better.
Those charts online always are a little weird. Especially the banner sales they always seem kind of inaccurate. As for the numbers you worked with it is quite possible. Genshin's 4.5 is going to be a filler patch and people returning for Fontaine are going to slowly leave again to return for Natlan. Honkai however just released it's new nation (?) So it's at an all time high. However if you compare the numbers of people who are playing actively then Hsr has 1/3 of the fanbase that Genshin has. So Genshin's revenue is always going to be higher after all they are dealing with around 66 million people while HSR is dealing with 22 million.
@@ChiIIi... It's very funny to watch how people apply double standards. "Oh, this statistic is a little unconfirmed, it's better not to trust it." And at the same time, "oh, HSR has a smaller audience than Genshin" - takes statistics from a site that can't even prove it.
@@broccoli5176 Massive strawman but sure. The guy youre talking about didn't even use stats from the same site?? Even still it's reasonable to assume that genshin has more players therefore more rev. Comment was justifying revenue for both games. Would you disagree with his analysis or assumptions?
about star rail content and chars no i don't feel pressured to have everyone actually my taste is extremely refined and i mihoyo usually don't launch chars that really make my brain activate. but when they release oh boy
@@ALittleSIMPle For me, it’s a matter of being bored of the same old gacha girl aesthetic that’s pumped out 70% of the time. The males are sort of unique ig, but honestly Sam is literally the only release out of both Genshin and HSR that I’ve been looking forward to. TLDR im just gonna go play Zenless Zone Zero when it releases because I can be a 3 ton bear there 😂
I think I agree with some or most your points to a degree. MHY is a company and HSR does things tactically. The thing that I think Genshin lost for me is that it became stale and boring. More open world areas do not immediately = more fun for everyone. The chose to shun a portion of the audience, ones that want more interesting combat and challenges, which is a big part of why you might pull a character. Fontaine's underwater was good but it was just more Paimon babble and Chest Fetching at the end of the day (in my eyes). Combat is the same, content isn't more challenging or diversified, just more of the same. Further, Genshin's anniversary rewards are atrocious, and I'm not talking about wishes. From the first anniversary, I completely get why they didn't give out a free 5 star or more wishes. It does devalue their economy. But what did and always will piss me off was the fact that they gave out 8 XP books, 80k Mora, and 8 weapon XP ores. That's barely enough to get a character to 20 or 30 (and we know it cost more and more per level). Stingy AF. Further, characters take forever to max out or farm mats in the open world for the billionth time. In HSR you can get all that very easily. And the fact that they made a big deal in their 3rd or 4th year anniversary (I genuinely can't remember what it was for Genshin this year) is just lame and shows how much they think their shit don't smell. Another thing that's funny to me is that even though DRR was not everyone's top pick, and they did it knowing they'd probably not lose much, he's a fantastic character. On the other hand, they made us spend primos/pay for Dehya's dog-water kit (her character is top notch) before dumping her lifeless body into the trash. For a billion dollar company that makes millions on every character, they sure don't know how to make all of them good despite them being costly, while HSR seems to have a pretty strong knack for that with a few exceptions so far (my poor Yukong). That or Genshin's become somewhat good like... 1-2 years later or only at C6 if they are a 4 star. Or cons like Mona's are still broken since 1.0 at least since I last played. Genshin is just a bloated slog at this point to me, I more or less quit not long after HSR came out, along with all the lack of QOL, fun, and time. I've logged in a few times, but I see my resin, the units I have yet to build, the artifacts the farm, and the time I have to spend roaming around the map doing pointless stuff, and I just shut it off. It's a good game at the end of the day, and those who are enjoying it are probably those who are the most casual (and most sane) so no hate towards them. I just really don't care about Genshin at this point and that was due to MHY's handling of the game.
I can totally understand where you're coming from. Genshin has a lot of appeal early on, but the same stuff doesn't last for everyone. I can also agree that their anniversary rewards, even without considering pulls is pretty stingy. I always feel somewhat bad about it 'cause I usually find myself enjoying anniversary events for the content and not-so-much for the rewards, but people will (understandably) criticize HoYo for their greed and this overshadows the otherwise light-hearted atmosphere. I'm sure some of the people working at MiHoYo are probably not overly happy about it, either, as I imagine those who are working on the events/story (and want people to have fun) are not the same people that dictate what the players receive. MiHoYo definitely broke my heart regarding Dehya. It's hard for me to have something well thought up for this, since I imagine character balancing is a challenge. Dr. Ratio is a strong character, but so was Seele on her release, and I'm having more and more difficulty choosing her over any of the newer units I've pulled for lately, despite also having Sparkle, so I don't think I'd be very surprised if Dr. Ratio fell off at some point. Of course, this is speculative and Ratio could be perfectly safe where he is, but I just pulled Acheron and her damage got me down bad. And then poor Jing Yuan's on his own roller coaster. While I do feel the effects of powercreep in Star Rail, Genshin's powercreep somehow seems to go in reverse sometimes, with Dehya being a good example, but I can confidently say with only trace amounts of cope that Dehya's gotten better since her debut. MiHoYo can also release new characters to help bring older ones back into relevancy (Xianyun for Diluc or Sparkle for Seele, for example), but at the same time, I imagine it's tough to do that without simultaneously improving the performance of more modern units (Sparkle and most modern DPS units, for example xd). That was all just a really long way of saying "character balance is probably hard and I think MiHoYo wants to avoid blatant / direct powercreep 'cause it isn't usually good for a game's longevity". I definitely understand your last point. People fall in and out of love (or like) with things, sometimes it's just best to move on. I'd certainly love a way to speed up the character building process. I do wish MiHoYo would treat Genshin (and their players) better, but I guess the business end of things says "no." If you're still playing HSR, I hope you're enjoying it! Current patch is a banger
Though unless Wuthering Waves turns out to be a hard competition, Genshin would probably just settle to minor QoLs and wont do a big move that dev didn't do before... ToF fell off as it's not really a Genshin-like game like peeps used to think since it turns out to be multiplayer-heavy game, though there are things that ToF released first before Genshin did, like the desert region (Vera got released before Sumeru desert area), and underwater region (Innars is way earlier than Fontaine)... Wuthering Waves though has real potential to be a Genshin competitor coz it's a single player gacha game and has more diverse characters in terms of appearances and fighting styles (Genshin is limited to 5 model types and 5 weapon types and hoyo doesn't seem would diversify) Also in playing gacha games, FOMOphobia will just hurt you
I think Tower of Fantasy's issue earlier on was it was either marketed as, or hyped up as a Genshin killer, then when it launched, it turned out to be different from what people expected. I do hope Wuthering Waves gives Genshin a run for its money, though!
Tbh a TRUE Genshin competitor is a game that has let's say similar combat to Genshin like the "Elemental Reactions". Wuwa has the standard "Elemental attacks" in many games like the "fire is strong against ice" etc, while in Genshin ice freezes units affected by water, lightning causes explosions when in contact with fire etc. So yeah Wuwa will only take in the players who likes fast combat while those who loves the elemental reactions combat will stay.
Nice Vids! And also dont forget for genshin, to reach the maximum reward you need at least 4 hours to clear anything visible to you, the rest take hours to find the chest you missed and hidden things. Genshin is too comfortable with their player screentime thinking its still Covid where player will sits for hours in front of computer and now they dont
is this man saying. The average Gacha player has higher standards than the average gamer? That is scary to think about, because it's true. I've seen the average gamer buy from EA every year, the average gamer, buying COD and expecting a better COD, over and over again. The market is the same, and its consumers are begging to be exploited by the next bigger badder establishment. It's scary to think about. The average gamer is majority and their standards are worse than the average gacha gamer...
I'm not saying it's definitely true, but it's something that's crossed my mind on more than one occasion xd I'd be the type of person to expect a better CoD. Good thing I suck at shooters.
The one analysis video thsf has common sense for once Bless you you even mentioned how star rail had more limited units so it makes SENSE to give more pulls...and drama began 💀 It just annoyed me that people don't use common sense especially in financing but I remembered this is a gacha community.... not even critical thinking like this video does but anyway great job 👏
I actually stopped playing a few months after the no endgame interview drama. At first I played until my welkin expired and slowly burned out when I stopped buying welkin and battle pass. Coming back to the game now it really doesnt feel like anything has changed. I was a bit sad I missed the flying companions and the free weapons but I got over it quick. After coming back I realized I actually enjoy the story events more when I watched them on youtube with 1.5x speed. In game it can feel really exhausting with how slow it feels. The only thing I think got better is that I dont have to do commisions anymore so I can actually explore the open world or do the events. The only commisions I do now are if they give achievements. I've realized I pick greens and blues in characters so at first glance I'm only interested in wriothesley, furina because she is archon (I think?) and maybe neuvillette but I'm not that interested in his playstyle. I got Xianyun because of her color scheme even though I dont like those red rim glasses lol and she is making open world quite fun
Yeah, it's too bad the Genshin dialogue feels like such a slog sometimes. I do enjoy the story, but some of the text definitely feels too padded out. Consolidating commissions with open world exploration was a nice little thing they did, I only wish they extended that to things like spending resin or doing bosses so people that are done with exploration can just sort of get things done while they do the other parts of their daily routine. I'm glad you're enjoying Xianyun, I find her a lot of fun, too!
Thanks! No worries if it's not up your alley, it certainly isn't for everyone. If Star Rail is your thing, I'm afraid those videos will likely be a little less frequent, but I do plan to cover some topics from time to time!
I don't play ToF but what happened to it? I remember when it launched it was also the subject of a bunch of "Genshin could never" but for some reason it's not brought up or considered as competition anymore? And apparently there's some sort of reboot server happening seriously what happened over there? Is this a "Genshin Killer Cycle"? Will WuWa be the same?
My opinion of Tower of Fantasy may be a little skewed at this point, I haven't played it in a while. I tried it on launch and played for a couple of months. I couldn't stick with it. I had a lot of problems with lag early on, but I forgave that since it was new and they probably didn't expect the load they got. Some of the combat mechanics were pretty annoying when it came to multiplayer content. Some enemies had skills that you couldn't dodge, but there was a mechanic where a perfect dodge would freeze the enemy and give you a DPS window. It was really cool, but poorly implemented, as this could only be activated if you dodged perfectly and you were the target of the attack. This meant that if a boss was targeting one person with an attack that could cleave 100 people, all 100 people would take the hit, even if they dodged correctly but the one target did not. The exploration was good, but some of the daily loop elements had layers of RNG I didn't like, even before the loot drops. There were these things called Gates, similar to Genshin's leylines, but their drop rates varied based on their rarity. It was like if you went to grab a leyline and sometimes it would give you 20k Mora, sometimes it would give you 5k (I don't remember the values, numbers are just for example). So if you didn't get a good rarity, your resource income suffered. The good news was you could link your Gate in chat and share your high rarity Gate with others. What sucked about it was they were pretty hard to come by and parties filled up quickly. I'd often wait around for an hour just to burn some stamina. I had a lot more issues with it, but this comment's getting a little lengthy and I don't want to bore you xd And again, a lot may have changed by now, so maybe things are a lot better. I haven't been keeping up with the news, so I'm a little out of the loop. I think most people don't treat it as competition because its player base seems to have dropped substantially since its launch. Usually when a game gets a reboot so early in its lifecycle, it tends to be bad news. A game shouldn't need a reboot if it's already doing well.
There was a way heavier (fairly compulsory) multiplayer component, which not everybody was into, and the story was meh. It felt more like an MMO than an open--world story game, so it didn't really fill the same niche. The power creep was more intense than Genshin's as well, which I think turned a fair few people off. As for WuWa I'm sure it will find success among those Genshin players that want more (or more difficult) end-game content, but the difficulty may end up alienating Genshin's more casual core fanbase and preventing them from migrating. The quality of its story and lore will determine whether it can entice those people to try it out and stay despite the more difficult combat. Genshin is so hard to kill because it appeals to a wide variety of players, and I'm not sure that WuWa is also going to be able to do that. (Or that it's trying to - all of the people I've seen interested in it so far are hardcore combat lovers that have skipped most of the story in the beta.) And that's perfectly fine. One game can't be everything to everybody, and attempting to do that is why some portion of Genshin's fanbase is always complaining loudly about something. If WuWa steals the Genshin players asking for more endgame content but not the rest, that may end up being a boon for both games, since Genshin can solidify itself as catering to casuals (and morale will be up with a prominent crowd of vocal dissenters out of the community) and WuWa will have a solid playerbase to start with. Kind of a win/win for both communities; the worst blow is to Hoyoverse but I think they've crunched the numbers and decided that losing that portion of the playerbase would be less financially devastating than investing the resources to cater to them and possibly driving the casuals away by doing so. So...less 'killing' Genshin and more 'stabilizing' it, perhaps. But that's subjective analysis, and it's hard to know for sure what will happen in advance.
Something I feel could have been mentioned is that it isnt just "pull from the Genshin team or hire new talent. They already have extra staff on hand working on HI3 theyre pulling from. Ive also heard that the team leads are a major determining factor.
The thing is tho. . . you can always ignore all these and just play it like a single player arpg that happens to have a gacha mechanic and the occasional reward. sure you grind the primos/jades everyday but at least for me it's to pass the time as I wait for the next part of the story to come out. plus having spare pulls is nice to look at cuz you know you're saving as a F2P. 🤣🤣🤣
As far as I can recall, I've only played one game from that developer (admittedly for longer than I expected to), but this was many moons ago and I don't know how different it is now. I do plan to push out more discussion videos, but they're not likely to be in the same vein as this one, and will probably only be covering Star Rail or Genshin. Branching out into different games is going to be a significant time investment and my smooth brain can only juggle two things at once xd
Fantastic video. I agreed with most of your points, and even for the ones I didn't agree with, I could see where you're coming from. Yes, Hoyo is a company that only sees its players as sources of money (just like most businesses in general) so their actions and decisions are made for the sole purpose of getting said money. But trying to understand why it's like that and what's their thought process is important. Thank you again for your own take on all that. No, I'm not defending Hoyo. I just think proper discussion or analysis of the situation (like this video) is needed in order to figure out how we approach the situation. Funny memes and raging is entertaining for a bit, but quickly gets exhausting and honestly doesn't do anything. No, I don't really have any ideas on what we should do to make Hoyo fix their business practices or game updates, but analyses like this are a step in the right direction. As for me, I still love Genshin and Star Rail and play both regularly. I don't nuke my wallet for either game (I'm just a light spender) and I don't let FOMO influence my gacha pulling and saving plans. I also take breaks and do other things if I feel burned out. They're video games, not your entire life. I totally acknowledge that there are plenty of things that need to be improved in both games, but the things that the games do well are enough to keep me entertained. And sure, people will cite many other games that are better than Geshin/Star Rail for one reason or another. And yes, there are objective ways and metrics to prove that. But ultimately, it's people's feelings that will determine if they like something or not. Genshin and Star Rail just happen to have the right things that I like in games, so I'm still playing after all this time. For other people, those same things or other factors may turn them off. And that's okay! TL;DR Video good, me huffing copium
Thanks for your thoughts! I think we all have a bit of copium in us, but that's okay. I certainly had to take a hit or two when I put this video together...
I agree with most of it, the thing with Genshin was that they were a new team Iirc, with some help of the original Honkai team, I assume, but newbies nonetheless, you can notice how their decisions are better overtime (until Inazuma that trashed my interest for the game) regarding what characters are capable of doing (though sometimes 5* are underwhelming, coffDehyacoff). Honkai Star Rail was made by both Honkai team and Genshin team partially, so ofc it's better, they took the best of both worlds, mostly Genshin in terms of UI and the intensity and epicness of Honkai Impact 3rd (go watch any of their animated shorts, they're stunning), Hoyo also has a bias towards honkai-related projects, so they can loosen the leash on Honkai's expenses, but they still have the leash in hand and would likely keep us out of reach of a "too generous" situation, this is a company that makes gachas, don't expect them to do such a thing. As for why the feel is different, I'd say it's because Genshin makes you work for everything, while HSR just gives some stuff to you for free and the rest they also make you work for it, so it always feels like Genshin just won't give you nearly as much. The point for competition is also very accurate, ToF did seem like a potential threat but it made itself worse somehow (Idk how tho, in paper, they were so much better than Genshin at open world and co-op stuff), so the only comparable thing was overhyped at launch and died off a few months after, Idk if Wuthering waves is going to be better, I just hope it is so Genshin has to step up their game and improve like Hi3rd and HSR had to.
I heard that the Genshin team was relatively inexperienced at the start, but they put something pretty good together! I don't play HI3rd, but every so often, an animation shows up in my recommended and while I have no idea what's going on, it's still impressive. I could write an essay on why ToF flopped for me, but I feel most of what my experience is composed of is largely outdated, since I quit around two months in. I've heard they made some changes, but I never went back to experience them. I remain hopeful for Wuthering Waves. Even if it doesn't end up being great, it doesn't hurt to have more options!
The Dehya situation is... weird xd Dehya was balanced around being a standard banner unit, and being Pyro put her in a tough spot because Vaporize and Melt reactions are pretty strong. Because they're strong, MiHoYo had to make her weak, so we "lose the 50/50." If she's a strong Pyro trigger, people will be happy 'cause big damage is fun. If she's a strong Pyro applicator, people will be happy 'cause Melt and forward Vape is strong, So they just kind of shafted her everywhere. The general idea is you're not supposed to be happy when you get an off-banner unit. If you did and you were satisfied, you might stop pulling there. If you lost your 50/50 and were upset about it, the FOMO-brain might kick in and make you want to pull more. I think Dehya's debut banner was more of a courtesy than something they expected to really profit from. Why they couldn't just make her a limited unit and give her a good kit instead, I couldn't really tell you. My guess was there are already a lot of limited units and scheduling reruns must be getting exhausting. It may have been true at the time of her release, but this is mostly invalidated by the new Chronicled Wish banner coming up. So my next guess is to fill a hole in the standard banner. Standard banner has quite a few DPS units and a couple of healers, but there were no shielding / mitigation units. If you're a player that's maybe having trouble with surviving, no amount of healing will help you if you would have died in one hit. Unfortunately, I think that's all I can think of at the moment, but this might make for an interesting video topic. Thanks for the comment!
You are right imo. I think Dehya's simple purpose is to dilute the pool of standard 5 stars even more. Maybe she's supposed to offset Tighnari being a good unit. I think seeing her silhouette pop up when you're wishing for a giga powerful 5 star unit is meant to be so dire and unfortunate and elicit so much fomo in the player that they got such a worthless unusable miserable unit that they try to swipe to correct the outcome.
@@ALittleSIMPle It's a good theory but still too much of a stretch to be considered an adequate explanation. Especially since they already have a weak pyro claymore in the standard banner. What's the point of wasting so much resources to design such a good character just to piss off your players. The only hole in the standard banner is geo and Fontaine/Inazuma character. If only we had someone like that coming soon that didn't play a huge role in the archon quests and probably won't make too much money, to put on the standard banner.
Mihoyo can afford making a character shit. There wasn't a huge backlash from Dehya not living up to standards unless you talk to people who minmax their builds. That's a very small subset of people. Maybe they fucked up her kit, they didn't bother, who knows, but they knew they'd get away with it. Just release a new unit that looks cool and does a lot of damage and everyone forgets about all else. Even HSR will eventually get to a stage where there's "no content" other than clearing these game modes and doing your commissions. It's only been out for a year. They also pump out games like crazy, for example, ZZZ is expected to come out by the end of this year. Gachas never last at their peak forever, they survive, but the studios need to make new stuff if they want to monopolize the market like HYV are currently doing, by owning the two best selling titles which outright stump on everything else.
@@joni4154 Of course they can do it, but why would they. It just seems like a pointless loss of tens of millions of dollars in sales and goodwill for nothing in return. They could've easily made her function well but chose not to for some reason
5:08 Hey love the use of math but I just noticed that some of these numbers seemed off I will sometimes look at the star rail google doc at pulls for patch and their rigorous calculations I appreciate and I made sure to look at your sources but I do notice some of the numbers are noticeably lower as they were predictions I think I unfortunately couldn’t find genshin numbers to help find a clearer picture of the statistics there was some old sheet but it appears to have been taken down so I believe the star rail income to be about 20 than higher than stated under IDEAL circumstances when excluding 1.0 another thing to consider is that star rail consistently gives out more standards imo which can help level out some of that 5 star necessity given how I constantly use my standards besides yanqing and haven’t built my welt don’t got a himeko though :( feel free to try and double check numbers and find that star rail bookkeeping doc
Thanks for looking into it! I wasn't totally certain of the numbers, but the source I used looked close enough to illustrate my point. I also didn't consider the standard pulls. They can certainly help a new player (or even sometimes an older one), but I think generally people are more concerned with pulling the limited units, which is why I didn't really go into it. I also didn't want the video to run too long, didn't wanna feel like I was wasting people's time xd Thanks for your feedback!
A Reddit post has been brought to my attention! The original post discusses things from a business perspective and the top comment (EffortlessFury) complements it from the technical side. A lot of the things covered in this video are in this thread, so if you want something in a better-organized, more insightful text format, this is definitely worth the read!
www.reddit.com/r/Genshin_Impact/comments/1ai0tn3/free_stuff_and_genshin_how_do_large_companies/
I want to add to the 1.6 to 2.0 talk Yeah i ended up pulling on all 3 banners and i had the insane luck of losing only 2 50/50 (one on mei and one on swan)
My premium roster of characters is currently perfected so i now dont need to pull on ANYTHING. So now im awaiting for something insane for the game to force my hand to pull. First team is a Kafka swan mei luocha, while second is Selee/Free Ratio Bronya Xuan Tingyun. Ive cleared MoC 12 with little issue. So if you have such a team you can yourself just chill and pull now only for funsies or just stock up for a character you love (i know i did love Kafka cause she is mysterious like Makima, and demon bs too)
Im certain HSR will give a free 5 star for anniversary.
Why? You said yourself they are competing against other turn based autobattler gacha games.
Ratio showed expectation that they are willing to release a free 5 star character that is good.
If a great anniversary is the standard for old time gacha players, they likely have played other turn base gacha games.
Meaning yes. They have to release another 5 start.
Also, Beta HSR leaked a special item that was essentially the 5 star version of HSR 4 star selector. So yes. It's there.
Amazing read. Thanks.
thanks for that aswell :3
@@arnowisp6244 Its not just that, Star Rail project and genshin is lead by different people, cai haoyu for genshin and david jiang on honkai, jiang is known to be very generous, Hi3 for instance gave away free meta 5 star units every so often ever since jiang take over from cai haoyu, who while he is in charge of Hi3, got the same complaints as the genshin players had right now
Probably the best breakdown video of the "rivalry" between Genshin and Star Rail
Thanks, I put a lot of thought into it!
omg hi dave
Rivalry between same people lmao
insanely good quality for someone with under 200 subs. That's criminal
Thanks! I try my best!
RIGHT? i dunno what tricks like mihoyo mental conditioning to their players, but holy damn that's the same impression i got listening to him, this is come high quality shit comming from someone with this little subs i thought this guys could be more than 400K subs at least but damn this is soooo concise and like, entertaining too, and not too much random yapping and structured and again entertaining but to the point like what the hell did this guy come from!? thank you for your graceful descent ALittleSIMPle.
@@nyuuh REAL SHIT
@@nyuuh fr fr
wait were they actually at less than 200 a few days ago
cuz if so this vid really hit the algorithm
Great video!
I think you're giving the devs a bit too much benefit of the doubt when it comes to QOL, and I do think at least some features aren't implemented because they just don't want to implement them rather than technical limitations, but I agree with everything else in the video. Very glad to see you mentioning the reviews, since a lot of people seem to think the review-bombing of other apps means that the 1* reviews of genshin during the anniversary don't count, and I'm happy to see someone actually understanding that the 1* reviews on genshin aren't invalidated because of some bozos going after google classroom.
ABOBA
balls
Thank you! You're probably right, I can certainly see why some features are intentionally withheld, but I do try to lean on the optimistic side of things. Probably not something I should keep making a habit of xd
To be really fair, I've been hearing from the start that Genshin, being worked on the time Hoyo was just a startup, without having even a 100 of employees, did not had the best clean code and documentation practices, so the technical limitations actually really seem pretty plausible. The game getting the company as big as it is now while making it having a lot of new devs isnt that easy to change the bad practices from before without breaking the game.
@@joaomoreno307 Genshin is not hoyo's first game, not even 5th..
1) legend of saha
2) fly me 2 the moon
3) Zombiegal kawaii
4) Houkai Gakuen 2 / Gun Girls Z
5) Honkai Impact 3rd
6) Tears of Themis
7) Genshin impact
8) HSR
9) ZZZ
the most likely reason GI isnt getting QoL is because the development focus is always NEXT game, not current
first HSR, and now ZZZ
So less, about MHY not being able to QoL genshin, but rather the extra devs needed to be allocated to GI to work on QoL, since the core GI team needs to never stop working on characters and the needed amount of new/fresh content/areas to keep players there and spending on characters; will not be allocated/reallocated to GI because of current project: ZZZ; and of their games since GI has no competition, unlike the others even less fiscal reason to temporarily reallocate for QoL
This is exactly what this community needs. More logical thinking and less overreacting. Great video🔥
Thanks!
my only disappointment is that there are too many people that just dont care for being treated like shit. I pray eithere Wuwa release, or HSR does something insane like another free 5star to really rile up genshin fans (and i am a genshin player i just want more gameplay...)
@@GGiGotHydra Yeah. White knights are a Big Problem. Literally calling it entitled to expect a Company to give free Gifts on Anniversary despite the fact most gacha games rarely reach their anniversary
Well it cant be helped since most ppl dont even read in game so dont have the brain to think properly
@@GGiGotHydra i don't think that star rail releasing another free 5 star will really do anything, because tbh players that actually like genshin myself will keep playing even if we're in an abusive relationship with hoyoverse--we hate it enough to complain about it but not enough to stop playing lol
really the only thing that would make hoyoverse be more generous to genshin players is competition (please wuthering waves be good); but it's really hard to compete with genshin simply based on its role in the whole open-world gacha genre, since it'd be hard for developers to compete against a behemoth like hoyoverse and its decades of experience
When someone in the community has actual common sense 🎉🎉🎉🎉
Thanks! Though, I admittedly spent a lot of time thinking about how I wanted to structure this video, so I wouldn't say common sense came quickly to me xd
@@ALittleSIMPle trust me, some folks who jump on the “Genshin is giving nothing” bandwagon exercise minimal thinking because they fall for the “more pulls free five star better anniversary” sales pitch. And when you tell them that HSR needs a bigger roster and incentivise you to pull more as opposed to Genshin, they will come up with “but F2P four star dps can do the same” while also failing to mention those people probably hard reset in HSR and do those things with five star light cones
@@ALittleSIMPle at least you took some time to think before you made this video, which a lot of people don't do.
frr
@@chenjunnn "And when you tell them that HSR needs a bigger roster and incentivise you to pull more as opposed to Genshin"
How's that working out for you now with the new "end game content"? 😂😂😂
You’re telling me google classroom is not a hoyoverse app? Would have fooled me. I thought Dr R was a google classroom exclusive , it fits perfectly.
(I’m joking.)
13:28 that was me in Genshin 1st anniversary. As someone who never heard about gacha games before was wondering why people are complaining even after getting free 10 pulls 😂
coming from botw player, mood
me who was a certain gacha game player: "Wait you guys have pity?!??!"
What game was it? @@hlonghi
@@SmashTheAdamprob FGO 😭 truly one of the pity systems of all time
If you've played any live service games before and experienced their anniversaries, one would certainly feel pretty bad about what we got
i’m really glad my parents did not allow me to spend any money on any games at all. I used to beg my parents to get me atleast a small number of primogems but they would refuse. now that im a little bit older i think rationally on how to save primos and get the characters that i want
It's always a funny thing to me when I reflect back on it. I remember asking my mother why I couldn't do something and she'd always say "trust me, mommy knows best." She was always right.
@@ALittleSIMPle 16 and know my parents would never allow me to spend on any game, so I don't even bother asking as it would just end up troublesome. I always thought that when I get my own job I'd set aside a tiny budget for Genshin just because I enjoy the game so much, but even though I don't think about it at those times, I'm sure things my parents would urge me to listen to would come back and let me know that they were right. In a way it sucks, but it sucks more that being young makes you ignore them anyway lol 🥲.
Btw loved your vid, surprisingly super high quality. It got me to sub!
Being told life lessons on patience and strategy by gambling sim in a video game is crazy. But same, I did spend some money and my parents never straight up not allow me to do it, they just gave me very little so I had to be smart about it... So I spent it all on getting 10 welkins in a row for the next year
@@ALittleSIMPle for me that is the WORST answer i can be given "i am the adult listen" "i am the parrent trust me" "i am God and i sied OBEY" i WILL rebell! but if tell me WHY i will ofton be oh thank you! thank you for protection and i will OBEY, but pull the "becuase i sied so" card and i WILL rebell!
@@NightmareRex6 Oh, I agree, I also love knowing why. I feel like there's no reason to withold the logic behind a decision since it teaches your kid to watch out for similar things in the future. But she was still always right xd
Another point on them giving away Dr ratio is that he's a imaginary unit which still is quite sparse (with the exception of DHIL).
That's true! I'm kicking myself for forgetting to mention that...
By the same logic, Genshin should give Free Tighnari when Sumeru released....but eh.
Except that we have free Yukong. You would know about this if you were playing HSR
And yes, as another person correctly noted in the comments - where is free Tighnari?
Then where was the free tighnari
@@broccoli5176 I believe the point was Imaginary units are sparse, not non-existent. There is likely no free Tighnari for the same reason Genshin wouldn't give us any other free 5* unit. We're stuck with our (cope) free Collei, instead. It seems the point of the comparison was lost, the idea behind whether Genshin could or couldn't give out a free 5* unit isn't related to Star Rail (just because Star Rail gave out a free unit doesn't mean Genshin would, too). I used Star Rail to emphasize their differences in both game mechanics and pull economy in an effort to provide a reason as to why we don't receive the same things. I like to believe that decisions are made with some kind of reasoning behind them and sometimes speculating is fun. And just to be extra-clear, I don't agree with MiHoYo. I may have provided reasons as to why I think things are the way they are, but I don't have to be happy about it.
You said you're setting yourself on fire, vut thisjia actually the best explanation od thia situation I've seen.
Most people either say "this is proof that Genshin sucks and Star Raik is better" or "Genshin is so good that it doesn't need to spoil it's players".
You actually took a critical analysis of the aituation. And for that, I applaud to you, good sir.
I tried my best, thanks!
Tbh even if Genshin Impact gave us a free 5 star it will probably just be a standard banner character. Good for New players , Meh for Veterans
Honestly, I'd be happy with a Keqing or Dehya Constellation xd
Bruh i hope that come one day my c1 diluc need it
Free 5 star but it's Qiqi
League and Dota make loads of sense. They both feature characters as "regularly released content" and organize them with consistent abilities and such. Like you could easily translate MOBA characters into a Genshin like setting aside from the fact they have an extra ability (in fact, since the old dev left, I hope they rework the MMO into a Gemshin style game, since it would work really well for League Lore and such). In fact, a lot of League players also play Genshin. You know how the Bennett Jean circle is called sunfire? That comes from a piece of armor called Sunfire Cape that does burn damage around your champion. And the OG top Freeze Team was called Morgana, named after a fallen angel sorceress whose known for one of the longest stuns in the game. So the general interest overlaps.
Your comment has humbled me. League and Dota do make a lot of sense, I think I was just hyper-focused on the open world & exploration aspects that I didn't even think of it at the time. Having also played League for a few years, I never made the Sunfire connection, either. At least I knew about Morgana, though. Thanks for your comment, my mind has been expanded!
@@ALittleSIMPle Yea, I dabbled into Paladins for the same hero motif of character style gameplay (paladins over overwatch cuz free and fantasy > scifi) and got used to noticing "borrowed concepts" between devs across a few games, since a few friends played Smite for another angle. And there's a few Pokemon Unite kits I'd love as League champs (namely Gardevoir, but Aurelion Sol seems to have adopted Charizard). So I actively grew interested in open world Zelda but with (real enemy variety, music, no rain slipping and) MM transformations as League champs that fills in my heart's hole for a "'competently written' RWBY anime".
uhm, I'm pretty sure Morgana is meant to be Mona + Ganyu + Diona = Mogana
@@YumiSumireit is but the name came from a char outside the game which is why venti isn't in the name despite being the core member of morgana
Facts brother spit your shit indeed 🗣️ gacha gamers gonna gacha but the impact stays genshin
Not gonna lie, I'm not entirely sure what you just said, but hell yeah.
@@ALittleSIMPle I don't know what I'm saying either 🔥🔥🔥
Split shit indeed 🗿
Genshit simpact indeed brother
But always remember, “WE ARE THE IMPACT” - Zyox
Someone putting some effort and being rational enough to say something else than "hurr durr jenshin bad"? That's very rare when it comes to this subject.
But hey, I'll repeat, if you are mad, then delete your account in protest. This is more efficient and better for you and anyone else than being obnoxious online.
Numbers talk, and HoYo has access to them!
@@ALittleSIMPle Indeed. If you want to send a message then delete your account stop having a toxic relationship with a company and stop extending your toxicity to those that are at peace. If those who bark will delete their accounts the Hoyo will feel that and if they care enough, they will have to improve each of their products to prevent their current and future player base from leaving.
@@Kiwi-AragaYou say that like the attachment people have gotten to the unique aspects of the game, their investment, and the addiction psychology applied in the game's design are just non-factors.
Quitting is literally hard. Rationality alone doesn't override that.
And to invalidate that is nothing more than being obnoxious in return.
The fact that you are the only one who's actually thinking about this logically and not memeing the hell out of this, is a breath of fresh air, i like seeing level headed CCs in this godforsaken community.
I just wished the other "CCs" were at least a bit smart as you and not creating drama every millisecond when something genshin or hsr does.
Anyways, W video. Looking forward to your future content
Thanks! I wish I was as smart as you're giving me credit for, I had to think on this for a long time xd
I think VARS II is doing similar.. thats why im subbing on this cuz its good.. l
I realized this after one year of playing genshin, so I quite and never looked back. There is no point in keep staying in and complain about an abusive relationship. Genshin does everything in the psyc book to facilitate addiction to the game and the urge to spend. It's simply too much of a mental drain. Yes some of the game constent rivals tripple A titles, but not so much the long term gamesplay which is grindy, repetitive and unrewarding. Everything I want from genshin, I can get from watching few UA-cam videos when new story drops.
The Genshin story and lore are pretty interesting, it's good that we can get them from UA-cam videos and stuff. But I definitely agree with you, some things can be really exhausting...
I thought I was gonna miss out after I quit after 2.0, coming back a little during Baizhu's release it reminded me I am missing out on nothing. The character and lore is what I am interested in most, so lore-tubers are carrying my interest in Genshin Impact.
Most of my genshin interest is fueled through Ashikai’s lore vid
What exactly make you want to spend money?
The Abyss?
The Trailers?
In most Gacha it's the pressure to keep up or the allure of new characters constantly bombarding you
Also.. Hoe long did you play Genshin?
Because for most saying I played a game for 2 to 3 years and then got bored seems ...fine
I like Elden Ring
I couldn't stomach playing it for thousands of hours
Its fear of missing out. That's why even people who cleared every content of Genshin. Still whaling on new characters@@demonking-zm3rs
This was a great watch, I subbed after watching. You gave a pretty informed analysis regarding Genshin and HSR so I'm appreciative of such takes.
Thanks, I'm glad you found it entertaining!
While a company's goal is to make money, you don't make money without customers. How do you get customers and, more importantly, repeat customers? Make them happy.
I'm looking forward to Wuthering Waves.
THIS WAS A REAL TREASURE TO FIND THIS MORNING
Honestly, this is how i play genshin. Plays it, but when it starts to make me feel burned, imma ditch it and paints. You gotta know your limit. Genshin is wild, but your life and future even matters.
And thats how i manage to do story quests on auto while i do my homework. Its a win win.
Free 5 star XQ or XL every year is funny but i chose Yanfei for cons this year.
You have my favorite comment so far.
praying for wuthering waves to be good. i just started in november and im already bored with the lack of endgame content where i can actually use my characters
I'm looking forward to trying it! I didn't get into the beta, unfortunately...
You'll get bored of that too. Stop looking for endgame in gacha games you doofus, play a regular VIDEO GAME not a gambling simulator
@@ALittleSIMPleOof, same here. It looks really fun tho.
Very great video and very informative, I always know that it's only their marketing tactics. I am a Genshin and Star Rail player and I have been playing both since their launch but I take breaks. Both are really good games and I am tired of the genshin could never drama. I used to hate Genshin bc of the drama and starting to hate HSR and the players too because of the genshin could never thing.
But I realize I don't hate the games, but I really dislike the communities attacking each other and boosting their own egos, downplaying each other and even downplaying certain characters, very rampant everywhere and they do it to justify their bias etc. Better lookout for people who makes sense and who are not because if it's real discussion and real criticism, I will be happy to talk about that.
It's better if I stay away from toxicity and just enjoy playing. I enjoy both games because they're really great games and they put a lot of time and thoughts in the stories, gameplay, lore and worldbuilding, characters, music and environment.
I agree, it can get tiring. It's much easier to enjoy both games when you knock out some of the external sources of noise xd
@@ALittleSIMPle yeah, the games certainly has flaws but people can overreact and stray too far from the actual problems haha
TY for your point 13:45. I play both games as f2p, so im clearly not the one mihoyo wants to market to spend more but I benefit the most from free gifts. But holy hell, every time I see a cc claim "we're getting 50 pulls or a free 5* selector at starrail's anniversary" I cringe. Cause I know they're the same people who're gonna cry and say it's a horrible game when we don't get it. The standard keeps raising due to almost delusional expectations. I just hope it isn't as bad as Genshin's was. It really is a shame and I'm glad to see you brought it up (cause idk, maybe other cc are just caught up in the hype and don't understand what they're saying). Great video. audio was a bit loud for the spiral stuff I couldn't quite hear you but still, good work with the charts.
Sorry about the audio, I'll have it fixed for next time! Glad you're enjoying both games, and thanks for the comment!
I actually hope they will feel at least a little ratioed when they won't get what they wanted 😈 too much "honor" for them
Oh hey, someone actually showed some of the math behind the rewards, it always annoyed me when people call Star Rail 'generous', but when I do the math behind how much I'd get with a subscription on average it's the same and even worse due to a lot more characters being introduced and the game's more RNG elements and steeper powercreep. Appearances are everything, who cares if you get less by math when the game gives ten free rolls a patch, most people won't look at the math anyway ;P
My teachers always told me math would be important.
i mean, in the end, the more roll, more dopamine, and genshin could at least give more wishes on the standard banner, and that wouldnt break the economy
I mean, just because there are more powercreep doesn't mean the older character instantly obsolete tho. Same like genshin, literally fontaine character are more powerful but will you say the older character become obsolete? No right?. And honestly if anything SR, have better balancing than Genshin, so older character in SR is more viable than in genshin.
Second, most of the time in HSR, even they release 2 new characters every patch, you can't go wrong with both of them anyway, so there's no "ugh i want to pull this character but he/she sucks" sentiment.
@@pon9035 Fontaine characters are powerful but don't feel exactly the same as any of their older counterparts. Lyney and Klee work best in mono Pyro but one is a bow user the other is a catalyst user; Wriothesley and Ganyu both have Melt teams but one punches and the other aims charged shots. Neuvillette and Navia add refreshing playstyles while Furina literally revived team wide healers, including Qiqi. Can't say the same about Yanqing
HSR has been releasing new characters without adding new gameplays or elements which results in blatant powercreeping (Sparkle > Bronya). Have you seen Acheron kit? And because it's AFK/turn-based there's nothing players can do to manually spice things up.
Worrying less about powercreeping allows you to not feel obligated to pull for everyone to keep up with meta. Once you get 2 solid teams (8-10 characters) to clear Abyss you can pull for who you like. Some units even future proof your account like Nahida, Yelan, Kazuha, Furina, and the holy trinity of 1.0 broken 4 star Bennet-Xingqiu-Xiangling.
@@pon9035 The powercreep in Genshin isn't as steep at all, to this day even the weakest older characters have a use either due to their weapon, on-field or off-field, role, element, application, energy or mechanics outside of damage. Fontaine characters don't overlap with any of the older characters nor do they push the damage limit other than Neuvillette, but it's only by a single-digit percent in 3 years, compared to Star Rail's 8 months yet the newest damage dealers push the damage cap by double-digit percent better damage numbers and even the tanks(Fu Xuan) and supports(Ruan Mei/Sparkle).
Star Rail's only mechanics outside of roles, buffs and debuffs are shield elements, but those are increasing every patch and so are the HP pools of enemies whilst new characters also have an ever increasing damage cap, more shield-breaking and overlap with other characters in what they do resulting in clearly better choices which if it keeps going will make older characters obsolete that can't even clear the hardest content at maximum investment. You can see it in 4* challenges, people still find ways to clear 36* Abyss in Genshin with 4* characters even without 5* weapons or Constellations, yet in Star Rail to even have a chance at it you micro-optimize for specific chances with E6 4* to even work which wasn't the case at release, the game is out for 8 months and powercreep is already felt, Genshin is 3+ years and powercreep is barely felt.
Been playing and enjoying both games though I prefer Genshin's gameplay, I am a little sad that not many QoL or End Game content in it. But people still dump on Genshin's players just because they're enjoying the game. I think it's probably due to a mentality like "my game is now better than your game", HSR players and Genshin players overlaps and lots of them moved to HSR now, so that happens.
It's funny that hoyo devs are the ones at fault here but their players are at each other's throat. It's better to criticise the game, not the players, after all hoyo is the winner again here. Both games has flaws and from my experience both sides are so bad at taking criticism. I hope Genshin gets a competitor soon so they'll finally start doing something.
Some people just like the feeling of superiority, I guess xd
I hope Wuthering Waves comes out swinging.
thankfully WuWa is out and is heavy competition for Genshin, hopefully genshin will start being less toxic
Mhy's CEO is also Genshin's lead producer, Cai Haoyu
HSR's lead producer is David Jiang
it isn't hard to figure out why Genshin does w/e tf it wants while HSR actually has to respect its playersbase
Basically, Genshin just lacks competition. I hope that moreof those will show up so that Hoyo can actually up their games with the anniversary.
Finally someone who understand. I can`t believe the reason why all yaping about we want a 5* and more pulls like starrail. And my thoughts was same as the creator`s ones. Untill mihoyo didn`t see the big L in their profits from jenshin, they would never gives us more then average income or other benefits or dr. L ratio. I can only imagine what players would think if they get a free 5* but u can choose only Qiqi or Dehya.
I will happily take a free Dehya. My simp brain outweighs my meta brain.
Give me one free Dehya, please. I've been staring at Diluc's ass for three years now.
I love you bro, i'm not famous enough to tell this to the internet, only to my friend. I've seen some of the most stupidest arguments over this, and i've always known why both games have different economies.
Btw I wanted to point out that the reason they gave a free *5 is because they won TGA and genshin only got nominated. Literally, i have seen nobody talking about that. They just bitch genshin and dump on it
I love to play both games, and i don't really care about the gacha aspect of genshin anyway. So we're good 😄
Don't feel bad, I'm not famous, either xd
The games are easier to enjoy when people aren't screaming at each other.
@@ALittleSIMPle Personally, for me just enjoy what you like. Quit when you're tired. Comparing games or having arguments between games are just wasting your time. People don't have much time to play these games anyway because they have work to do or something else to do. I'm glad atleast someone like you noticed the problem and put a response to the internet.
I'll just play whatever, because whatever makes me happy I'll play it! Hoyoverse games are free too so that's always in my mind when playing free games with such quality.
4:14 the exact same can be said about hsr lol. i actually beat PF 4 thanks to my lvl 70 underbuilt herta, and ofc the FREE dr ratio paired with pela and guinafen(with a couple of eidolons) helps you immensely through the game.
not to mention some of the best characters are 4*s:
QQ - amazing aoe DPS whos SP issues go down with eidolons
Tingyun - arguably SS tier harmony unit with the energy and buffs she gives
Pela - her aoe def debuff is cracked, and she can remove buffs with her skill. also SUPER sp friendly
Lynx - great healer, she heals less than the average 5* but her aoe cleanse and the fact she's free is amazing
sampo - ofc my biased ass has to add him. if you have kafka but no black swan or ruan mei (or worse, both 💀), building him is basically a necessity LOL
and tbh every new unit being good in star rail is a good thing imo. being disappointed with a new characters kit has always been a bummer in genshin but rarely happens with star rail, and the game isn't hard enough for powercreep to ruin anything. i have no jing liu and rarely use my dhil but get through content just fine
i agree with everything else tho, im just bothered when ppl think hsr can't also be completed with 4* characters and free LCs. not in a 🤬angry way but it gives me an opportunity to be nerdy lmao
all in all i think hsr vs genshin is a great example of how important competition is. bc genshin is the only popular game of its kind they have room to be lazy and hardly listen to players, while HSR has both competition and its older sister to live up to, therefore much more catering to players and giving out more rewards
Ppl that hated Genshin and think that makes them cool, called many games Genshin killers but Genshin stayed strong because most players just play the game. And now they bring HSR against Genshin from same company as Genshin killer. Stupidity of those ppl lol
Honestly The genshin playerbase loves to complain about anything. "Oh why is this character so weak" "why is this character so strong" " the new triple banner is probably going to require 2 fate points wont be worth it " it requires 1 why not make it 0" etc etc 😂 how can you ever keep them satisfied.. and the only thing they're achieving with this childish drama is advertising the game in a way , cause if you really want to give HoYo the low blow best just stop playing the game entirely
Yeah, if you want to tell a company you're not happy with something, the best way to do it is quit! It's tough to keep everyone happy, but I do feel like I notice some of Genshin's playerbase seems to be particularly loud sometimes xd
"How can you keep them satisfied" you ask as if Hoyo have ever tried to appease complaints. The only time they did react to them was the Zhongli fiasco where they got spammed by the Chinese players with invoice requests, which they're legally obligated to provide, but realistically couldn't with what the sheer number of requests was, so they could've had the shit sued out of them. It took a figurative gun to their head for them to listen.
And quitting isn't something you just do. People are invested, they're attached to the good things about the game, they crave more of what makes the game unique and they can't get from any other game, and there's straight up addiction psychology applied in the game's design. You don't simply logic your way out of that, that's not how humans function.
People want this abusive relationship to drop just the abuse part, not also the relationship part.
Yeah, the whining isn't helping, but your invalidation of people's frustration is a plain and simple insult.
And your own advice goes for you too - just don't watch the whiny videos, don't read the complaints in comments sections and the reddit and Hoyolab posts. By responding with shit like this you yourself choose to participate in this drama you scoff at. Nothing is forcing you to see it, scroll past it. But some part of you doesn't want to, does it.
meanwhile i just enjoy HSR more because i prefer the turn-base gameplay and because of how the path work, i can enjoy build up different team to play around than just stick to the main team for the open world.
Also because HSR doesn't have climbing system so character can wear a long dress and look sexy, just look at Bronya Rand
I'm glad you're enjoying it! It's a well-made game!
I agree, Bronya is hot.
the argument that "you can 36* the abbys with 4*" is so overdone. Yes you can, but only if you're a fricking cyber sportsman and inwested in those 4* like crazy with their constilations and preferably 5* weapons. I want every single person who says this to 36* the abyss with C0-C3 4* with 4* weapons on them and see how it feels, I dare y'all...And if you can do all of the in Genshin, who said you can't do it in HSR?
Hmm, I'm not so sure. I can do it on both of my accounts, and on my friends' accounts, all of varying Constellations. I also never said you couldn't do it in HSR, but HSR will require more investment across all of your units. Let's say you run a National team in Genshin and your Bennett isn't particularly well-geared, he only only stays on the field for about two seconds. Outside of his field time, he's in no danger. In Star Rail, all units have a chance of being attacked (unless you taunt with Fire TB, but there are still enemy AoE attacks or the chance your taunt fails), it's not like you can just dodge. Some higher level content with faster enemies can sometimes dogpile one unit if you're particularly unlucky. Sure, you can gamble with RNG and be successful, but I've played both Genshin and Star Rail since their launch, and I've had an easier time pushing Spiral Abyss early in Genshin's lifecycle compared to Star Rail's Memory of Chaos. That being said, I've felt more of an impact on my account's power level when pulling in Star Rail compared to pulling in Genshin. The point of the argument was to say that Star Rail has different modes of endgame combat that play to the strengths of different units, so a player can feel significant benefits from a more diverse roster. This is not to say this is better or worse than Genshin's system, the point of the video was never to call one better than the other. They're just different, and it's important that the pull economy is adjusted for this.
I would have never guessed you have under 1k subs, thats simply criminal for the quality you put out, keep up the amazing work
Thanks! I try my best!
HSR fans are the ones who started this because these specific HSR players are Genshin players with superiority complex so they "hate" Genshin because it's a popular thing to do and shit of Genshin fanbase is an easy way to boost your ego.
But bro, I agree with every point you made. It's hilarious to see how people really think HSR team loves, respects and appreciates them like how naive do you have to be to believe that when a company pressures you to spend money with their scammy tactics? "Oh wow, they give you 13 more pulls, so it's not a scam anymore, trust me bro, I totally respect myself more than that Genshin player"
Also, gotta add something from my experience in playing both games. I'm a collector. I like to pull everyone. In Genshin I have been pulling every single character since the second Venti banner for almost 3 years now. Usually they have one new unit per patch, and I can chill and save in another half. In Star Rail they always do more. I can't just take a break and save on the second half of the patch, I have to spend even more money to get everyone, and unlike Genshin, HSR actually wants you to get as much as you can. "Oh but you can beat everything with level one Arlan yada yada" spare the bullshit, some ppl just have no idea how hard it is to pull off because HSR is extremely luck dependant even in it's combat and "endgame". You didn't roll that one blessing? Sucks to suck, now you won't clear with your level 1 Arlan. You didn't get this one curio? Sucks to suck, rerol. It's not the same level as Genshin. You did not roll Jingliu? LMAO it's gonna be fun to see you try take down these 2 bosses with Ice being the only common weakness. Unless you want to build your Herta... but don't expect it to be good in MOC 12
woah this is the best discussion about genshin could never on yt. not only you give insight on business prespective and critical thinking, you also gave an easy solution. 😅
Thanks, I'm glad you liked it!
basically, what i'm hearing here is one game has considerably more effective mechanical and incentive design, and the other kinda looked like botw when it started and still has zero competition. (wuthering waves please pull through)
Ive spent 10$ total on genshin and I’ve definitely gotten way more than 10$ value out of it… I don’t really play other gachas so maybe expectations are really so drastically different but it’s hard to see where other people are coming from when they complain.
I’ve tried other gachas, even Star Rail, but the grind and power creep is just oppressive in every one of them. Genshin might be stingier with the pulls but its monumentally more generous with giving out content.
I've put down some money on Genshin, I also feel like the value I've gotten was definitely worth it. I think in terms of content pushes, Genshin's pretty spot-on with their formula.
Hi. How long have you been playing Genshin having spent only $10?
same here. i spent 10$ for two months of the moon blessing, been playing for some time, and i don't feel the need to pull. there are banners i am waiting for (hence the 10$ moons) but it's not a big deal and the experience is overall positive. the game is predatory and uses a lot of tricks to make players pay though, so the criticism in this regard is justified, but the game content itself is totally enjoyable even as a f2p, and especially so if you're more of a casual player like me
@@Alderberanirgal2 years
didnt even realize youre a small creator lol. Very well made video hope you the best
Oh my God, that's so true
The video is well made
Thanks! I put a lot of thought into it! Though, admittedly, possibly not enough xd
Something i want to add .
What people on social media may consider "a popular opinion" ,sometimes may forget that most people who play the game don't engage with that said games social and communities. This is more apparent on big Big communities like Genshing ,where its side can have a different popular opinion .
The reason why we get alot more Qol for new players rather artifact loudouts, is becaude maybe its not the most requested thing . Not everyone has multiple builds for their characters ,so most wont ask for it .
This is true. I assume Genshin still has a significant amount of new players coming in, which makes an automatic artifact equip system a sensible thing to add. It might not be what veteran players want, but I'm sure it's helpful for newer people that may be overwhelmed by all of Genshin's menus and mechanics.
Except that things like "artifact recommendations" are just bad for games like Genshin where 99% of the players are casual. Remember that all the "statistics" that are reflected to beginners are compiled based on the decisions of other players about what they should put on the character. It's just a meaningless mechanic that doesn't help in any way.
People in the Genshin community like to look for excuses like, "oh, it's not added because those who need it are a minority". But shouldn't games listen to their entire audience? To do something only for one part of the audience, turning a blind eye to the other... something tells me that this leads to the leaving of another part of the audience. Who could stay, no?
@@broccoli5176 how is it exactly bad?
Like it helps them not making stupid decisions, I don't see how that's bad.
Also in a entertainment industry like gaming ,most of the time you shouldn't hear all of your audience ,. You can't appeal or satisfy everyone and it's more important to prioritize things most of your playerbase likes ,instead of a few . Otherwise you will stretch your self thin and no amount of money will save you .
@@broccoli5176 I agree that the artifact recommendations are not optimal, but in a game where 99% of the players are casual and using casual builds, it will likely work "well enough" for other casual people utilizing the same casual mechanics. People that don't know what they're doing will at least have a place to start.
I don't believe it's realistic to appeal to an entire audience. You can't make everyone happy because some people just like or want different things. Even if you could hypothetically appeal to everyone, it still makes the most sense to prioritize the majority.
@@Dojafishwell the issue with stat fed systems in a game where 90% of players are casuals is that the menu can be fed bad information and by extension give new players bad information. So if you look at it that way it helps nobody.
Great video! You're a really awesome content creator, can't wait for you to blow up
Thanks, glad you liked it!
Now that Wuwa is out and it seems to be a real competitor to Genshin hopefully it will bring GI to other gacha games standards
nah its full of bugs and glitch, translation error, doxxing JP player, story is shit, music is boring, combat ....its just hi3/PGR/TOF in open world.
Damn guy, you did a great job with this one, it's what I keep telling people
Thanks! I put a lot of thought into it!
overall really great video and mostly speaks out my thoughts on both communities fighting each other, while volunteering themselves on being abused by mihoyo.
Thanks!
One thing to note is that Genshin's QoL isn't even that bad compared to HSR.
Upgrading and level characters are great. you can hold the item and it'll automatically and rapidly increase the amount. in HSR you have to spam click if you don't want to use the auto system which always use the lowest tier item first. You can also hold LMB and drag for quickly selecting artifacts to sacrifice. Can't do that with relics.
And while HSR released with the redeploy expedition thing, Genshin added it later and had a better version. Instead of a redeploy for each expedition, genshin allowed you to claim all and redeploy all. HSR will finally add that in 2.1. And Genshin did address a lot of the QoL complaints like the crafting table being blocked by NPCs, or underground map, item slots, etc.
The QoL complaints about genshin is just confirmation bias. They look at the stuff HSR had that Genshin didn't but forget all the stuff that contradicts this viewpoint. And things like auto-play or not needing to talk to NPCs for completing certain tasks is because the games are different genres. Genshin is open world with action combat, those just can't be implemented without detracting from the experience as a whole.
Also, Genshin's camera work for story quests is just so much better. Its dynamic, they focus on the faces when characters talk, they find good angles to transition, give panoramic shots etc. HSR is so stiff and half the characters talking have their back facing the camera. As far as people comparing the story go, I think they both have a similar-ish track record. Liyue and Inazuma was ok but quite flawed, Mondstadt was mid, Sumeru and Fontaine were great. For HSR, Belobog was great, Loufu was dropped the ball hard, and so far, Penacony been great. So, both are kind of half-half storytelling wise.
Saying genshin could never without knowing the company's marketing strategies is a very dumb thing to say, more people should watch this video
Something about the "League and Dota" thing is that those options are not necessarily there as feedback/comparison points, but they are also for Hoyo to figure out their existing playerbase's preferences (i.e. What % of our playerbase also likes this other category of game?). What for, you ask?
For future products! After all, making a new product in the category that you *know* your existing customer base is interested in results in a lot less risk for Hoyo, since they can be basically guaranteed that these parts of the customer base will try it out and help generate hype, among other things, compared to having to carve out an entirely new playerbase from nothing
You make a good point! Thanks for bringing that to my attention. Another person commented that League and Dota make a lot of sense since all of those games follow a character release schedule and it's important to see how players react to different kinds of units from different styles of games. I'm kicking myself for missing these points, I think I was too focused on the open-world aspects of the gameplay. Thanks for the comment!
My Short Answer.
Genshin is Casual Action, where every Character are powerful enough for late game, where even I use Lisa even though I have Raiden Shogun for a flavored Team, or using my Lisa's high Elemental Mastery.
Star Rail is Tactical Strategy, where you might need a diverse set of Character to tackle late game.
And Honkai 3rd is a character action game somewhere in between (though I think people bring up that it's become more "unga bunga big numbers" as of late, supposedly compared to Punishing Gray Raven especially, a game I still haven't tried yet but was interested in). HI3 Abyss is even more brutal than Genshin's, though IIRC the latter half of that game's main story lets you use rentals
Finally someone with a brain thanks for saying this outloud for everyone to listen, people seem to think that Genshin Devs are lazy but the reality is it's an open world Gacha game that is competing with AAA Games ofc it wouldn't be throwing new features at our faces every damn time the code for a real open world game is far more complex compared to semi open world games like HI3rd and HSR which I play both of those too, also let's all be honest HSR only got good story after Luofu and now Penacony is the best meanwhile it's gameplay shouldn't even be compared since it's literally a turn based game and not a open world game, also HSR is way more pay to win compared to Genshin where you could continue your gameplay even in Abyss using just 4 stars also its way more free to play than it looks, not to mention it's actually fun to explore in Genshin compared to HSR where you can't even jump also let's not forget you can't go beyond the open roads given in HSR for some reason heck HI3rd now has jump feature and what not 😂 when is HSR going to implement that feature, Also I needed to mention this but isn't the way HSR Devs make the player more interested feel downright like bribing and it feels like everyone inside Hoyo discusses all this before hand so that they can shift players from its other games into the one where they want you to be which is hella manipulative either way I like all three of them but HSR only started to feel good to me after Penacony meanwhile I loved Genshin since forever and Honkai Impact is the actual goat hoping that Wuthering waves is actually good
It seems manipulative, but honestly, it's smart business-practice. As a company, they want to make money. If someone's gonna quit their game, they're not making any more money from that person, so the next best thing is to funnel your quitting players into other games (also made by you.) Giving away freebies isn't necessarily something I would say is strictly bribing, either. Many gachas do it for a number of different reasons - it does a lot for business, but it could also be a genuine expression of good will. Not to say I know for certain which it is, or if it's both, I'm mostly speculating xd
Another reason why genshin has a vastly different monetary philosophy is due to the fact that the two CEOs oversee the different projects in the company.
One of them oversees Honaki impact and Honkai star rail, and the other oversees genshin.
They both have very different ideas of what makes a game engaging.
The CEO in charge of HSR knows how to pull in engagement while the other CEO knows how to pull in the big bucks
If you're talking about Cai, that's not true. He hasn't worked on genshin since 1.x lol really wish this narrative would stop
@@justsomeguy727so who's the current Lead developer then?
The fomo in star rail is much higher than in genshin. I dont have even one fontaine 5 star but i can still easily clear abyss and enjoy genshin. I just got nahida after a year and she made abyss much easier. Apart from furina, i dont feel pressure to pull any fontaine characters because my xiangling hit soo hard.
It's a funny thing, sometimes I feel like I have to wait too long for the character I want in Genshin. In Star Rail, I feel like I'm pulling (or trying to) almost every other patch.
@@ALittleSIMPleit’s been killer this whole patch and next patch fr
xiangling is the free 5* unit all along :)))
One of the reasons is because Star Rail just have better 5 star quality, the 5 star are clearly better than the 4 stars. Genshin however, a lot of the 5 stars are just straight up weaker than the 4 stars one(tbf this mostly only applies to the original 4 stars). Yae was weaker than Fischl on release, no one uses Yoimiya because she uses similar comp as Xiangling and she’s just better. Fischl, Xiangling, Bennet, and Xinqiu was mistakenly made too strong that just only 4 of them can clear the abyss if you sweat enough.
yes right now in genshin you might be able to clear abyss without pulling the newest 5 star but thats because you already have like 3 teams fully built at least, if we were to compare in the right way lets compare genshin first year abyss and hsr first year end game modes, yes hsr has more of a requirement but it is only slight, i personally am a f2p player yet i miss only 2 stars every rotation of moc and full cleared every pf (except for the dot one where i got 9 because i haven't invested in dot yet) taking that into account, i played genshin since around day 3 but i could only 36 star abyss during sumeru, and 33 stars was a dream up until end of inazuma because i simply did not have 2 teams fully built 🤓☝️that said as a veteran gacha player genshin could afford to be a little more generous, having no competition doesn't mean you can't just show a little appreciation to your loyal players
star rail getting a free 5 star isn't much of a deal, since in that game, it is turnbased and you need epecfic characters(like dr ratio) to beat and weakness break the enemies as opposed to genshin , where a level one character can kill a level 90 enemy given enough time(not saying that starrail couldn't just that it will take even longer)
actually, in HSR you can brute force any enemy with any unit so long as you have the sustains to not die. There are no hard immunities unlike genshin, where if you bring a hydro catalyst against a hydro slime or hydro abyss mage or other hydro immune enemy, you're not killing it no matter what.
That said, Dr Ratio is a cracked unit and holy man am I happy I got given him for free. Completely decimates anything and doesn't even have the major downside most hunts have of being strictly single target, since he can dual target quite well.
Even if them giving ratio was a stunt the thing is they still did it they could have just released a 4 star and given it out on on release with a 5-10 pull in the mail
They certainly could have! But Dr. Ratio builds more hype!
You’ve got a new sub here, these are all the points I’ve been making about the business of things, but people would rather just tell me I’m a genshin bootlicker, how I’m wrong, and how they do these things out of the goodness of their hearts in star rail
Thanks! Sorry to hear about your experience, though. Sometimes having an opinion is rough.
Me bruteforcing MOC with Seele and Jingyuan and clearing floor 12. Wha- what?
Oh wait thunder manifestation! Surely my tazer team could compete with that! Oh the hydro Tulpa! Surely my freeze team could handle that. Hydro and Cryo abyss heralds in one floor! Surely my hyperbloom team could deal with that.
Oh wow 18 enemies in triple waves! Surely grouping them isnt needed!
No. Both games need require specific units and gears to clear the game. Genshin 4 star showcases are literal retry spams with r5 4 star weapons and nearly c4-c6 characters. Which is almost equivalent to a c1-2 5 star in genshin’s pull value.
Now ask Jing Liu players how much they changed her teams/gear since they got Jingliu.
I was able to clear moc10-12 with a f2p account since patch 1.3 up until now.
Genshin’s meta is also changing because of the damage output needed now compared to before. And you definitely dont need a damage dealer/healer and a buffer to replace your sub dps to gain more team damage, right?
I did say "with the exception of some hard counters" xd
But after giving your comment some thought, I think I agree with your point and I failed to see a bias on my end when I was putting this video together. I've been able to clear Spiral Abyss 12 comfortably with 4* units (some have high Constellations, some don't) with few or no retries but I didn't account for time investment in my artifacts, which is a pretty significant factor when comparing two games that released years apart. There's a pretty good chance I'll feel the same about Star Rail some way down the line.
Regarding your point about Jingliu, I'll admit I've been mostly vibing through Memory of Chaos, but my experience with Pure Fiction was different (I think I mentioned "all forms of endgame content" during the video). I was able to clear with her, but not by a particularly large margin in a number of different compositions. I found I was able to push a higher score with Herta and Himeko, which told me "brute force works, diversity is probably easier." Of course, skill issue is definitely a thing and I'm absolutely prone to that.
But I do agree with you and I'll admit my analysis on this part was short-sighted. The next time a Genshin vs. Star Rail fiasco happens, I'll keep your thoughts in mind. Thanks for the input!
Brother, most accounts are 36* capable after 4-5 months of playing regardless of who you pull. I guarantee you that a top% skilled player could 36* star abyss with your account given a f2p month. It really is just a lack of game knowledge that keeps people from clearing stuff.
@@musicaltarrasque I’m a day one player and my first full clear was last month. Only reason I’m getting through is Furina and Jean. Besides, Abyss is such a small part of the game. I’m not opposed to more endgame necessarily, but I do think Genshin is targeted at folks with somewhat limited time or a desire to play or do other things. It’s not designed in any way to encourage continuous play.
Jingliu comparison is pretty disengenious, Hu Tao vape + International existed since 1.3 and steamrolled in every Abyss rotation.
Genshin does have checks that exclude units of element/weapon type, but the other side usually works just fine for the excluded type, though Freeze in particular is being shafted a lot in general.
@@nagorner3791 not really tho, hu tao players had to properly go with boss fights or few enemy/waves or even adjust team members to actually properly go against multi enemy waves (not even mentioning her artifact investments that are so horrible during earlier patches). meanwhile national had tons of variations and the team is very constellation reliant, the team suffers heavily when you dont do your setups properly and you dont have your key components. (c6 xq and C4 xl). If youre comparing investments, HSR still wins with JL and its not even a year.
Jingliu only cares for a c0 bronya which you can guarantee with the 300 pull freebie.( my f2p account got the 300 free pulls from just playing dailies and not even doing the major events) then you can run her with anyone. Single target or aoe, JL can brute force it, even ice resistant enemies can be beaten down with sw.
She can run most sets and just needs a bit of attack, crit damage and speed. Like the investment levels are insane because of her free damage buffs and crit rate. You can mix and match supports with her and she will do fine. The best thing or part about her teams is they barely need any investment. Bronya just needs crit damage. Pela just needs effect hit rate. The sustainr just needs HP or whatever stat they want.
national early variants-
BENNY- HP, ENERGY RECHARGE (c1)
XL - EM, ATK, CRIT, ER (c4)
CHILDE - ATK, CRIT, EM
KAZUHA/SUCROSE - 3X EM (the only easy one)
hutao- EM, HP, CRIT, (c1 arguably)
XQ- ATK, ER, CRIT, (C6)
Zhongli - HP, OR ENERGY (the only easy one)
Flex- (easy or not, depending on who it is)
We are not even talking about weapon investments and how F2P JL teams are compared to your genshin team picks.
i loved this A LOT. i spend a lot of time in Genshin and love the game. yes i hate the less rewards. but i love the characters the scenery and overall the story. and i HATE telling my friends i like Genshin because as soon as i utter that word ill hear Genshin bashing which is mostly just stupid arguments which don’t make sense. so yea bless you
I’m a free to play player because I feel uncomfortable spending money on a game that won’t be around for many many years, I may not become a free to play player when Furina returns because I need her but I’m gonna be saving up intertwined fates and primogems until then. That will probably end badly because I do not know the most effective ways to get primogems, I mean I haven’t even started the Liyue Archon quest because I’m at adventure rank 22
Honestly, just play the game and they'll come in. You get Primogems from a lot of things, they'll add up. Good luck on your Furina pulls!
@@ALittleSIMPle thank you!
Something thats been pissing me off about this phrase has been over the anniversary rewards that happened after this and people saying it... Genshin literally did, both games give 20 pulls. People are just being dicks now and trying to degrade genshin.
Thank you for being someone that's smart and uses facts and logic with the situation, someone clearly used the free Dr. Ratio to listen to some of his classes
Yeah, I think a lot of people kind of forgot about the bulk of the free pulls we received and primarily fixated on the three additional ones and the "thanks for your loyalty" message. I think people mostly just like to make noise about things xd
@@ALittleSIMPle I've been seeing a lot of people say that hsr has 10x the anniversary rewards saying that genshin gave 3 in total and hsr 30 (it includes the base 10 per patch, so it's 20) so just... Ugh.
Those 3 pulls weren't even part of the anniversary event, they happened like 4 months after. So they're attributing rewards that weren't even part of the anniversary to the anniversary, while ignoring the other rewards that were in both lantern rite and the actual one
There's just so much information and people being unable to read
@@aetriandimitri190genshins 20 pulls on the first anniversary dont count, only the first 10 are valid to bring up, cause a massivd uproar was needed for the other 10, which was just gonna be a paid pack. Star rail players didn't need to do such things. And there is the special events star rail is getting for the anniversary, which genshin didn't have
@@vnmememan8657 how do those 20 pulls not count? Yes they were earned from an uproar and then kept for following years, why would star rail that's the same company not follow that same trend. If genshin made a mistake, fixed it, and then hsr does the exact same fix, you can't say hsr did it better just because it didn't repeat the same mistake
The only anniversary event hsr is getting that's actually dedicated to the anniversary is a single event that gives 1000 jades, the same as most events. That's not a big increase especially as genshin still has events running on its own anniversary regardless of if they are flavored on the anniversary
@@aetriandimitri190 10 of the 20 dont count, the first 10 do, not all 20 dont. The star rail didn't give the 20 because they knew of the disaster with genshins first anniversary, they would have done it regardless
Never thought such a DETAILED ANALYSIS to be told by such a small content creator lol..
Now i really feel like all those BIG CC's are just doing nothing but trying to juice others by saying "GENSHIN COULD NEVER", but you literally showed the real reason why "GENSHIN COULD NEVER", because it just DOESNT HAVE TO..
Well, I can only describe this whole video, a WONDERFUL ANALYSIS REPORT that many cant even see.
Idk how to describe, but i feel like you did a really amazing job to let the world know the real truth behind why star rail gets more pulls, and why genshin dont... even comparing honkai impact 3 is too much, like if we missed we missed, bcoz pity resets xD.
Thank you for making this video, TRULY MIND BLOWING AND INFORMATIVE!! ❤✨
Dr. Ratio was a really big surprise and an awesome marketing move, but I think it set some people's expectations too high for the future. Now I see a bunch of people making ridiculous predictions for future events. A limited 5 star banner for the anniversary? Sure, it seems feasible, but I wouldn’t be surprised if they didn’t. Though I've seen predictions that range from that, to them giving out a free Acheron in 2.1, to them giving out a 5 star on March 7th. It is a bit worrying that some people might get angry at the game because any future rewards don’t compare to free 5 stars despite how enjoyable the game is.
I will not be suprise if we didnt get a 5 star, I expect a free 4 star or at max a free standard 5 star characters
Damn my man I didn't notice you were a low sub creator until I got to the comments, hope you keep growing up, you deserve it, this is a great video!
Thanks! I appreciate it!
I downloaded HSR today and my first pull for a 5 star WAS dr. Ratio (Dr. Wahrheit)
Super high quality vid and really funny towards the end :"D
you've put into words my entire thoughts on the genshin vs star rail discussion
I am also hopefuly that wuwa is a great game, some competition will do both games good
and as far as fomo goes it's been liberating to figure out I really don't absolutely need every other new unit in genshin so now I prioritize welkin-only spoiling my faves
got Furina and her weapon last, saving for Arlecchino and her weapon too now (50 pity + guaranteed + 180 wishes and counting up!)
I still want other units like Kazuha and Xianyun but I can wait for reruns, if they come at an opportune time
so I've become comfortable with the amount I spend on genshin and as a result I'm not up in flames about the lack of rewards anymore, I just appreciate what we get and don't get my hopes up about the rest (like people asking for endgame content since 1.0)
not that other people don't have the right to be mad but the only real choices we have are play (and if you want to, spend) or quit
Arlecchino got me down bad. I wish you luck in your endeavors! I think if we're just having a good time, it's best not to let others ruin it for us xd
6:21 Unground map… Wuwa implemented that in their second update with Jinshi
crazy that even the latest revenue of Genshin Worldwide is almost 90 million
Genshin's Boycott did do shit
as long Casual and Whales don't leave Genshin it will never die/change
these "gamers" / "hard core players" / "F2P" even if all of them go to wuthering wave
Genshin will probably still gonna earn 80-90 million again
I do think Genshin may be at a point where it's too big to fail (without some significant force), but at least with Wuthering Waves, we'll have more options!
@@ALittleSIMPle yeah wuthering wave have a lot of option
but my problem is i dont feel anything to all Waifus
design wise they're Generic good at best but not HOT like Genshin, Star Rail, Zenless Zone Zero, Girls Frontline 2
even Grand Blue fantasy Relink = Zeta and Narmaya have hotter design not even waifu game
Snow break waifu is bit better or the same level of Generic waifu design of wuthering waves
Even if a Genshin content creator who is aware of the drama make a poll, the majority of their community will say that they won't quit Genshin.
Can you believe it? Even people involved in the Genshin community, people who follow content creators and, by extension, the spiral of negativity that comes with them, don't want to quit Genshin.
If they can't even take a stance, I think it's fair to assume that the average, casual Genshin players doesn't give a f about drama and negativity.
Those crybabies are just a drop of water in an ocean
The easiest way for Mihoyo to keep expectations at a manageable level would be to properly communicate with the playerbase; if they were to make it clear that they were giving away Dr Ratio for free as a celebration for the game's first award, then there would be no room for misunderstandings, nor would there be any reason to expect them to do it again.
Oh ! Wild "person with common sense" appeared !
*click*
Gotcha ! "Person with common sense" got a new sub !
If Star Rail didn’t bore me so much gameplay-wise I’d definitely play it again.
I like the humor, the side quests (there was a really good one that had a guy who was waiting for his partner and I think it had something to do with him waiting to see her again in the far future? Not sure, you could choose to have him move on or wait, might be wrong tho) I like the story, and some of the characters (I love Herta she’s such a prick 😂) the music ain’t Genshin but it’s pretty decent too.
But when I actually open up the app, I get so bored from the combat.
I don’t think it has that much to do with it being turn-based, I’ve enjoyed turn-based games before like Limbus Company for instance. But I’d obviously like an Action RPG style more. And I think the lack of truly CO-OP content hurts the game a lot for me.
Part of what kept me in Genshin was all the friends I made there who would help and just do dumb shit with me. I just feel lonely when I play Star Rail.
It has its upsides, but it's definitely not for everyone! Glad you gave it a shot!
Every “Genshin could never” gives me 2 thoughts
1. “Honkai impact >>>”
2. “Star rail could never shut up”
3. (I was lying, last one) man, I wish there was just peace between these games
4. (Ok, last one for real this time) man, I want them wishes😭
I, too, wish for peace. And also for wishes Q ~ Q
While I love to criticize genshin I have felt for some time now people online really lack the capacity of seeing nuance between games. I am all for the boicot if it really worked (It didn't and probably won't in the future) but genshin as a game is more fun to me, specially after the change in daily comissions, and in 3 years I have used like 5 dollars. I barely log to starrail this patch like I have logged for the 10 free pulls, started pentacony story and not much more I am currently thinking on unistaling it as it also drains my laptop a ton more than genshin for some reason.
Yeah, it's odd, I also noticed that Star Rail seems to be more resource-heavy than Genshin does. It seemed unintuitive so I thought it was just me xd
But yeah, as much criticism as Genshin gets, I do feel like I gain a lot of entertainment just from playing the game. Glad to see you're still having fun!
Nice vid. Lots of points people aren’t making.
While it’s true Genshin is top dog I think their behavior might make them more vulnerable to competition than they need to be. I wouldn’t be looking forward to WuWa in the same way if Genshin had done literally anything for combat endgame.
I agree! A lot of my Wuthering Waves hype is built by what I hope it can do over Genshin, but I suppose I could be setting myself up for disappointment. Either way, having more options is always nice!
A really good quality analysis, man.
For 2k subs (while comments say you just had 200...) it's actually very amazing!
Immediately subscribed, i hope it's gonna be a ride!
Have a good day and Goodluck.
Thanks, I'm glad you think so! Hope you enjoy your stay!
Finally a take that makes goddamn sense instead of "ayy lmao Genshin is shit Star Rail way better game you mint picker lol".
I thought it would be an interesting topic to think about, hope you enjoyed it!
i mean they are not wrong....
@@vault29ait's subjective. HSR for me is incredibly shallow and doesn't scratch my turn based game itch whatsoever. Especially not after coming off the absolute emotional rollercoaster that is P3 . Penacony just feels so uninteresting in comparison.
That isn't to say genshin is any better but I'm just giving you some perspective on how hsr really isn't that much better of a game than genshin is for some of us.
Especially not when 90% of my time on HSR is spent clicking the autobattle button anyway.
Thank you for dropping some facts. You share my opinion about almost everything you've talked about (is it really opinion though? or are we just using our brains unlike the others) but I learned a few things like why did they choose Dr Ratio?
First of all it's because it's a guy and guys bring less money and he's between 3 hot mommies and right before the 2.0 update. It's a Yoimiya situation but without the waifu element. Imagine the catastrophic sales.
I took a look at this month's sales chart for both games and I think it's incredible how Honkai managed to almost double its sales globally. In the meantime, Genshin only ended up with a loss of 10 million, I like to be positive and think that for a community like Genshin to be able to reduce all of this in 6 weeks is a step forward. However, we all know that it is only when 4.6 comes out that they will become the most profitable game again
I was a little hesitant to do an analysis on sales 'cause I can never tell how accurate those charts are (some of them only include iOS, some are only by region, et cetera), but thanks for looking into it! It's kind of a shame that we have to hope a game fails before expecting it to get better.
@@ALittleSIMPle I understand, this numbers are very sus some times
Those charts online always are a little weird. Especially the banner sales they always seem kind of inaccurate. As for the numbers you worked with it is quite possible. Genshin's 4.5 is going to be a filler patch and people returning for Fontaine are going to slowly leave again to return for Natlan. Honkai however just released it's new nation (?) So it's at an all time high. However if you compare the numbers of people who are playing actively then Hsr has 1/3 of the fanbase that Genshin has. So Genshin's revenue is always going to be higher after all they are dealing with around 66 million people while HSR is dealing with 22 million.
@@ChiIIi... It's very funny to watch how people apply double standards. "Oh, this statistic is a little unconfirmed, it's better not to trust it." And at the same time, "oh, HSR has a smaller audience than Genshin" - takes statistics from a site that can't even prove it.
@@broccoli5176 Massive strawman but sure. The guy youre talking about didn't even use stats from the same site??
Even still it's reasonable to assume that genshin has more players therefore more rev. Comment was justifying revenue for both games. Would you disagree with his analysis or assumptions?
Underrated channel considering quality of a video and discussion you're doing. Earned yourself a sub.
about star rail content and chars
no i don't feel pressured to have everyone
actually my taste is extremely refined and i mihoyo usually don't launch chars that really make my brain activate.
but when they release oh boy
I'm happy for you! Unfortunately, I don't have the same level of restraint orz
@@ALittleSIMPle For me, it’s a matter of being bored of the same old gacha girl aesthetic that’s pumped out 70% of the time. The males are sort of unique ig, but honestly Sam is literally the only release out of both Genshin and HSR that I’ve been looking forward to.
TLDR im just gonna go play Zenless Zone Zero when it releases because I can be a 3 ton bear there 😂
I think I agree with some or most your points to a degree. MHY is a company and HSR does things tactically. The thing that I think Genshin lost for me is that it became stale and boring. More open world areas do not immediately = more fun for everyone. The chose to shun a portion of the audience, ones that want more interesting combat and challenges, which is a big part of why you might pull a character. Fontaine's underwater was good but it was just more Paimon babble and Chest Fetching at the end of the day (in my eyes). Combat is the same, content isn't more challenging or diversified, just more of the same.
Further, Genshin's anniversary rewards are atrocious, and I'm not talking about wishes. From the first anniversary, I completely get why they didn't give out a free 5 star or more wishes. It does devalue their economy. But what did and always will piss me off was the fact that they gave out 8 XP books, 80k Mora, and 8 weapon XP ores. That's barely enough to get a character to 20 or 30 (and we know it cost more and more per level). Stingy AF. Further, characters take forever to max out or farm mats in the open world for the billionth time. In HSR you can get all that very easily. And the fact that they made a big deal in their 3rd or 4th year anniversary (I genuinely can't remember what it was for Genshin this year) is just lame and shows how much they think their shit don't smell.
Another thing that's funny to me is that even though DRR was not everyone's top pick, and they did it knowing they'd probably not lose much, he's a fantastic character. On the other hand, they made us spend primos/pay for Dehya's dog-water kit (her character is top notch) before dumping her lifeless body into the trash. For a billion dollar company that makes millions on every character, they sure don't know how to make all of them good despite them being costly, while HSR seems to have a pretty strong knack for that with a few exceptions so far (my poor Yukong). That or Genshin's become somewhat good like... 1-2 years later or only at C6 if they are a 4 star. Or cons like Mona's are still broken since 1.0 at least since I last played.
Genshin is just a bloated slog at this point to me, I more or less quit not long after HSR came out, along with all the lack of QOL, fun, and time. I've logged in a few times, but I see my resin, the units I have yet to build, the artifacts the farm, and the time I have to spend roaming around the map doing pointless stuff, and I just shut it off. It's a good game at the end of the day, and those who are enjoying it are probably those who are the most casual (and most sane) so no hate towards them. I just really don't care about Genshin at this point and that was due to MHY's handling of the game.
I can totally understand where you're coming from. Genshin has a lot of appeal early on, but the same stuff doesn't last for everyone.
I can also agree that their anniversary rewards, even without considering pulls is pretty stingy. I always feel somewhat bad about it 'cause I usually find myself enjoying anniversary events for the content and not-so-much for the rewards, but people will (understandably) criticize HoYo for their greed and this overshadows the otherwise light-hearted atmosphere. I'm sure some of the people working at MiHoYo are probably not overly happy about it, either, as I imagine those who are working on the events/story (and want people to have fun) are not the same people that dictate what the players receive.
MiHoYo definitely broke my heart regarding Dehya. It's hard for me to have something well thought up for this, since I imagine character balancing is a challenge. Dr. Ratio is a strong character, but so was Seele on her release, and I'm having more and more difficulty choosing her over any of the newer units I've pulled for lately, despite also having Sparkle, so I don't think I'd be very surprised if Dr. Ratio fell off at some point. Of course, this is speculative and Ratio could be perfectly safe where he is, but I just pulled Acheron and her damage got me down bad. And then poor Jing Yuan's on his own roller coaster. While I do feel the effects of powercreep in Star Rail, Genshin's powercreep somehow seems to go in reverse sometimes, with Dehya being a good example, but I can confidently say with only trace amounts of cope that Dehya's gotten better since her debut. MiHoYo can also release new characters to help bring older ones back into relevancy (Xianyun for Diluc or Sparkle for Seele, for example), but at the same time, I imagine it's tough to do that without simultaneously improving the performance of more modern units (Sparkle and most modern DPS units, for example xd). That was all just a really long way of saying "character balance is probably hard and I think MiHoYo wants to avoid blatant / direct powercreep 'cause it isn't usually good for a game's longevity".
I definitely understand your last point. People fall in and out of love (or like) with things, sometimes it's just best to move on. I'd certainly love a way to speed up the character building process.
I do wish MiHoYo would treat Genshin (and their players) better, but I guess the business end of things says "no." If you're still playing HSR, I hope you're enjoying it! Current patch is a banger
Though unless Wuthering Waves turns out to be a hard competition, Genshin would probably just settle to minor QoLs and wont do a big move that dev didn't do before...
ToF fell off as it's not really a Genshin-like game like peeps used to think since it turns out to be multiplayer-heavy game, though there are things that ToF released first before Genshin did, like the desert region (Vera got released before Sumeru desert area), and underwater region (Innars is way earlier than Fontaine)...
Wuthering Waves though has real potential to be a Genshin competitor coz it's a single player gacha game and has more diverse characters in terms of appearances and fighting styles (Genshin is limited to 5 model types and 5 weapon types and hoyo doesn't seem would diversify)
Also in playing gacha games, FOMOphobia will just hurt you
I think Tower of Fantasy's issue earlier on was it was either marketed as, or hyped up as a Genshin killer, then when it launched, it turned out to be different from what people expected. I do hope Wuthering Waves gives Genshin a run for its money, though!
Tbh a TRUE Genshin competitor is a game that has let's say similar combat to Genshin like the "Elemental Reactions". Wuwa has the standard "Elemental attacks" in many games like the "fire is strong against ice" etc, while in Genshin ice freezes units affected by water, lightning causes explosions when in contact with fire etc. So yeah Wuwa will only take in the players who likes fast combat while those who loves the elemental reactions combat will stay.
Subbed and liked. You deserve a Nobel Prize.🏆
Aw, thanks! I appreciate it!
Finally someone who criticized the game with research to back it up maybe there is hope for this game after all. Deserves a sub 👍
Thanks!
Nice Vids! And also dont forget for genshin, to reach the maximum reward you need at least 4 hours to clear anything visible to you, the rest take hours to find the chest you missed and hidden things. Genshin is too comfortable with their player screentime thinking its still Covid where player will sits for hours in front of computer and now they dont
is this man saying. The average Gacha player has higher standards than the average gamer?
That is scary to think about, because it's true. I've seen the average gamer buy from EA every year, the average gamer, buying COD and expecting a better COD, over and over again. The market is the same, and its consumers are begging to be exploited by the next bigger badder establishment. It's scary to think about. The average gamer is majority and their standards are worse than the average gacha gamer...
I'm not saying it's definitely true, but it's something that's crossed my mind on more than one occasion xd I'd be the type of person to expect a better CoD. Good thing I suck at shooters.
The one analysis video thsf has common sense for once
Bless you you even mentioned how star rail had more limited units so it makes SENSE to give more pulls...and drama began 💀 It just annoyed me that people don't use common sense especially in financing but I remembered this is a gacha community....
not even critical thinking like this video does but anyway great job 👏
I had to make this video at a time where my gacha brain wasn't simping over pixel-women. It was challenging.
I actually stopped playing a few months after the no endgame interview drama. At first I played until my welkin expired and slowly burned out when I stopped buying welkin and battle pass. Coming back to the game now it really doesnt feel like anything has changed. I was a bit sad I missed the flying companions and the free weapons but I got over it quick. After coming back I realized I actually enjoy the story events more when I watched them on youtube with 1.5x speed. In game it can feel really exhausting with how slow it feels. The only thing I think got better is that I dont have to do commisions anymore so I can actually explore the open world or do the events. The only commisions I do now are if they give achievements. I've realized I pick greens and blues in characters so at first glance I'm only interested in wriothesley, furina because she is archon (I think?) and maybe neuvillette but I'm not that interested in his playstyle. I got Xianyun because of her color scheme even though I dont like those red rim glasses lol and she is making open world quite fun
Yeah, it's too bad the Genshin dialogue feels like such a slog sometimes. I do enjoy the story, but some of the text definitely feels too padded out. Consolidating commissions with open world exploration was a nice little thing they did, I only wish they extended that to things like spending resin or doing bosses so people that are done with exploration can just sort of get things done while they do the other parts of their daily routine.
I'm glad you're enjoying Xianyun, I find her a lot of fun, too!
cool and great video, im not a big fan of genshin but i'll try to check out your other videos, much love
Thanks! No worries if it's not up your alley, it certainly isn't for everyone. If Star Rail is your thing, I'm afraid those videos will likely be a little less frequent, but I do plan to cover some topics from time to time!
I don't play ToF but what happened to it? I remember when it launched it was also the subject of a bunch of "Genshin could never" but for some reason it's not brought up or considered as competition anymore? And apparently there's some sort of reboot server happening seriously what happened over there? Is this a "Genshin Killer Cycle"? Will WuWa be the same?
My opinion of Tower of Fantasy may be a little skewed at this point, I haven't played it in a while. I tried it on launch and played for a couple of months. I couldn't stick with it. I had a lot of problems with lag early on, but I forgave that since it was new and they probably didn't expect the load they got. Some of the combat mechanics were pretty annoying when it came to multiplayer content. Some enemies had skills that you couldn't dodge, but there was a mechanic where a perfect dodge would freeze the enemy and give you a DPS window. It was really cool, but poorly implemented, as this could only be activated if you dodged perfectly and you were the target of the attack. This meant that if a boss was targeting one person with an attack that could cleave 100 people, all 100 people would take the hit, even if they dodged correctly but the one target did not. The exploration was good, but some of the daily loop elements had layers of RNG I didn't like, even before the loot drops. There were these things called Gates, similar to Genshin's leylines, but their drop rates varied based on their rarity. It was like if you went to grab a leyline and sometimes it would give you 20k Mora, sometimes it would give you 5k (I don't remember the values, numbers are just for example). So if you didn't get a good rarity, your resource income suffered. The good news was you could link your Gate in chat and share your high rarity Gate with others. What sucked about it was they were pretty hard to come by and parties filled up quickly. I'd often wait around for an hour just to burn some stamina. I had a lot more issues with it, but this comment's getting a little lengthy and I don't want to bore you xd And again, a lot may have changed by now, so maybe things are a lot better. I haven't been keeping up with the news, so I'm a little out of the loop.
I think most people don't treat it as competition because its player base seems to have dropped substantially since its launch. Usually when a game gets a reboot so early in its lifecycle, it tends to be bad news. A game shouldn't need a reboot if it's already doing well.
There was a way heavier (fairly compulsory) multiplayer component, which not everybody was into, and the story was meh. It felt more like an MMO than an open--world story game, so it didn't really fill the same niche. The power creep was more intense than Genshin's as well, which I think turned a fair few people off.
As for WuWa I'm sure it will find success among those Genshin players that want more (or more difficult) end-game content, but the difficulty may end up alienating Genshin's more casual core fanbase and preventing them from migrating. The quality of its story and lore will determine whether it can entice those people to try it out and stay despite the more difficult combat.
Genshin is so hard to kill because it appeals to a wide variety of players, and I'm not sure that WuWa is also going to be able to do that. (Or that it's trying to - all of the people I've seen interested in it so far are hardcore combat lovers that have skipped most of the story in the beta.) And that's perfectly fine. One game can't be everything to everybody, and attempting to do that is why some portion of Genshin's fanbase is always complaining loudly about something.
If WuWa steals the Genshin players asking for more endgame content but not the rest, that may end up being a boon for both games, since Genshin can solidify itself as catering to casuals (and morale will be up with a prominent crowd of vocal dissenters out of the community) and WuWa will have a solid playerbase to start with. Kind of a win/win for both communities; the worst blow is to Hoyoverse but I think they've crunched the numbers and decided that losing that portion of the playerbase would be less financially devastating than investing the resources to cater to them and possibly driving the casuals away by doing so. So...less 'killing' Genshin and more 'stabilizing' it, perhaps. But that's subjective analysis, and it's hard to know for sure what will happen in advance.
Something I feel could have been mentioned is that it isnt just "pull from the Genshin team or hire new talent. They already have extra staff on hand working on HI3 theyre pulling from. Ive also heard that the team leads are a major determining factor.
Also pretty great Video !
Its nice to hear an opinion that is more well thought out and not sided .
Thanks, I put a lot of thought into it!
The thing is tho. . . you can always ignore all these and just play it like a single player arpg that happens to have a gacha mechanic and the occasional reward. sure you grind the primos/jades everyday but at least for me it's to pass the time as I wait for the next part of the story to come out. plus having spare pulls is nice to look at cuz you know you're saving as a F2P. 🤣🤣🤣
I hope to see more videos like this for the other games if they are actually bad . Can i give you a suggestion?... lilith games
As far as I can recall, I've only played one game from that developer (admittedly for longer than I expected to), but this was many moons ago and I don't know how different it is now. I do plan to push out more discussion videos, but they're not likely to be in the same vein as this one, and will probably only be covering Star Rail or Genshin. Branching out into different games is going to be a significant time investment and my smooth brain can only juggle two things at once xd
Fantastic video. I agreed with most of your points, and even for the ones I didn't agree with, I could see where you're coming from. Yes, Hoyo is a company that only sees its players as sources of money (just like most businesses in general) so their actions and decisions are made for the sole purpose of getting said money. But trying to understand why it's like that and what's their thought process is important. Thank you again for your own take on all that.
No, I'm not defending Hoyo. I just think proper discussion or analysis of the situation (like this video) is needed in order to figure out how we approach the situation. Funny memes and raging is entertaining for a bit, but quickly gets exhausting and honestly doesn't do anything. No, I don't really have any ideas on what we should do to make Hoyo fix their business practices or game updates, but analyses like this are a step in the right direction.
As for me, I still love Genshin and Star Rail and play both regularly. I don't nuke my wallet for either game (I'm just a light spender) and I don't let FOMO influence my gacha pulling and saving plans. I also take breaks and do other things if I feel burned out. They're video games, not your entire life. I totally acknowledge that there are plenty of things that need to be improved in both games, but the things that the games do well are enough to keep me entertained.
And sure, people will cite many other games that are better than Geshin/Star Rail for one reason or another. And yes, there are objective ways and metrics to prove that. But ultimately, it's people's feelings that will determine if they like something or not. Genshin and Star Rail just happen to have the right things that I like in games, so I'm still playing after all this time. For other people, those same things or other factors may turn them off. And that's okay!
TL;DR Video good, me huffing copium
Thanks for your thoughts! I think we all have a bit of copium in us, but that's okay. I certainly had to take a hit or two when I put this video together...
Love the research and the humor!
Thanks!
I agree with most of it, the thing with Genshin was that they were a new team Iirc, with some help of the original Honkai team, I assume, but newbies nonetheless, you can notice how their decisions are better overtime (until Inazuma that trashed my interest for the game) regarding what characters are capable of doing (though sometimes 5* are underwhelming, coffDehyacoff). Honkai Star Rail was made by both Honkai team and Genshin team partially, so ofc it's better, they took the best of both worlds, mostly Genshin in terms of UI and the intensity and epicness of Honkai Impact 3rd (go watch any of their animated shorts, they're stunning), Hoyo also has a bias towards honkai-related projects, so they can loosen the leash on Honkai's expenses, but they still have the leash in hand and would likely keep us out of reach of a "too generous" situation, this is a company that makes gachas, don't expect them to do such a thing.
As for why the feel is different, I'd say it's because Genshin makes you work for everything, while HSR just gives some stuff to you for free and the rest they also make you work for it, so it always feels like Genshin just won't give you nearly as much.
The point for competition is also very accurate, ToF did seem like a potential threat but it made itself worse somehow (Idk how tho, in paper, they were so much better than Genshin at open world and co-op stuff), so the only comparable thing was overhyped at launch and died off a few months after, Idk if Wuthering waves is going to be better, I just hope it is so Genshin has to step up their game and improve like Hi3rd and HSR had to.
I heard that the Genshin team was relatively inexperienced at the start, but they put something pretty good together! I don't play HI3rd, but every so often, an animation shows up in my recommended and while I have no idea what's going on, it's still impressive.
I could write an essay on why ToF flopped for me, but I feel most of what my experience is composed of is largely outdated, since I quit around two months in. I've heard they made some changes, but I never went back to experience them. I remain hopeful for Wuthering Waves. Even if it doesn't end up being great, it doesn't hurt to have more options!
If Mihoyo cares about profit so much explain the Dehya situation. Cause I can't see a single way Hoyo could've profited off that
The Dehya situation is... weird xd
Dehya was balanced around being a standard banner unit, and being Pyro put her in a tough spot because Vaporize and Melt reactions are pretty strong. Because they're strong, MiHoYo had to make her weak, so we "lose the 50/50." If she's a strong Pyro trigger, people will be happy 'cause big damage is fun. If she's a strong Pyro applicator, people will be happy 'cause Melt and forward Vape is strong, So they just kind of shafted her everywhere. The general idea is you're not supposed to be happy when you get an off-banner unit. If you did and you were satisfied, you might stop pulling there. If you lost your 50/50 and were upset about it, the FOMO-brain might kick in and make you want to pull more. I think Dehya's debut banner was more of a courtesy than something they expected to really profit from. Why they couldn't just make her a limited unit and give her a good kit instead, I couldn't really tell you. My guess was there are already a lot of limited units and scheduling reruns must be getting exhausting. It may have been true at the time of her release, but this is mostly invalidated by the new Chronicled Wish banner coming up. So my next guess is to fill a hole in the standard banner. Standard banner has quite a few DPS units and a couple of healers, but there were no shielding / mitigation units. If you're a player that's maybe having trouble with surviving, no amount of healing will help you if you would have died in one hit.
Unfortunately, I think that's all I can think of at the moment, but this might make for an interesting video topic. Thanks for the comment!
You are right imo. I think Dehya's simple purpose is to dilute the pool of standard 5 stars even more. Maybe she's supposed to offset Tighnari being a good unit. I think seeing her silhouette pop up when you're wishing for a giga powerful 5 star unit is meant to be so dire and unfortunate and elicit so much fomo in the player that they got such a worthless unusable miserable unit that they try to swipe to correct the outcome.
@@ALittleSIMPle It's a good theory but still too much of a stretch to be considered an adequate explanation. Especially since they already have a weak pyro claymore in the standard banner. What's the point of wasting so much resources to design such a good character just to piss off your players.
The only hole in the standard banner is geo and Fontaine/Inazuma character. If only we had someone like that coming soon that didn't play a huge role in the archon quests and probably won't make too much money, to put on the standard banner.
Mihoyo can afford making a character shit. There wasn't a huge backlash from Dehya not living up to standards unless you talk to people who minmax their builds. That's a very small subset of people. Maybe they fucked up her kit, they didn't bother, who knows, but they knew they'd get away with it.
Just release a new unit that looks cool and does a lot of damage and everyone forgets about all else. Even HSR will eventually get to a stage where there's "no content" other than clearing these game modes and doing your commissions. It's only been out for a year. They also pump out games like crazy, for example, ZZZ is expected to come out by the end of this year. Gachas never last at their peak forever, they survive, but the studios need to make new stuff if they want to monopolize the market like HYV are currently doing, by owning the two best selling titles which outright stump on everything else.
@@joni4154 Of course they can do it, but why would they. It just seems like a pointless loss of tens of millions of dollars in sales and goodwill for nothing in return. They could've easily made her function well but chose not to for some reason
5:08 Hey love the use of math but I just noticed that some of these numbers seemed off I will sometimes look at the star rail google doc at pulls for patch and their rigorous calculations I appreciate and I made sure to look at your sources but I do notice some of the numbers are noticeably lower as they were predictions I think I unfortunately couldn’t find genshin numbers to help find a clearer picture of the statistics there was some old sheet but it appears to have been taken down so I believe the star rail income to be about 20 than higher than stated under IDEAL circumstances when excluding 1.0 another thing to consider is that star rail consistently gives out more standards imo which can help level out some of that 5 star necessity given how I constantly use my standards besides yanqing and haven’t built my welt don’t got a himeko though :( feel free to try and double check numbers and find that star rail bookkeeping doc
Thanks for looking into it! I wasn't totally certain of the numbers, but the source I used looked close enough to illustrate my point. I also didn't consider the standard pulls. They can certainly help a new player (or even sometimes an older one), but I think generally people are more concerned with pulling the limited units, which is why I didn't really go into it. I also didn't want the video to run too long, didn't wanna feel like I was wasting people's time xd
Thanks for your feedback!