@@fuumaruu7486but then again Genshin players “rarely” get a weapon as an effect. Star Rail on the other hand “temps” players to try and pull every single character banner. 😂
Think about the Genshin players that still miss their dream standard 5* character after 3 years of dedication. 💀 UPDATE: YOU CAN NOW PICK A 5-STAR FOR FREE DURING THIS UPDATE(5.0)! And around the same time each year you will be able to pick 1 standard for free again!
If you happen to follow l/eaks, you probably will know that ratio will have more synergy with upcoming units (a lot of new characters have debuffs in their kit while they are not all nihility). Giving a free character who requires debuffs with future characters having this mechanics also suggests for more pulls. I think Hoyo are playing 4D chess here.
"more synergy with upcoming units" sorry but this is just wrong because he already has great synergy with old units, in fact his best support/sub-dps is Topaz since her proof of debt is counted as debuff and her passive increases his follow up damage.
I dont think the problem with the Genshin 1st anniversary is not having a free 5 star. The problem is they only gave away 10 pulls initially! Genshin is the only gacha game that i played that did that.
Correct, being the only gacha game that only give out 10 pull for an anniversary meanwhile other gachas are doing 3x more than that is what pissed people off
One of the reasons why I don't play gacha games anymore. Dangerous temptation and kinda feels not worth it.. Please don't roast me, just wanna share an opinion. But I really like the character design and lores from Genshin Impact and Honkai Star Rail
I've been a fan of Mihoyo since HI3rd launch, and one of the things that made me love them were how generous they were with everything during HI3rd... going from that to Genshin was pretty shocking. HSR feels more true to their original form IMO. That said I still feel like Genshin was an overall good just because while HI3rd was good, Genshin blew up in popularity, and kinda announced to the world that it was time to stop making low effort dung-quality games for mobile. I think it basically made all the mobile game devs step up their game somewhat.
There is also the fact that Honkai Impact 3rd also gives a free 5* during Anniversary so Geshin players expecting a 5* wasn't that outlandish. That is why Dr. Ratio was a big shock since people thought they were only going to continue that tradition with Honkai impact and their future games won't have free 5*s. What would be hilarious if we get that in ZZZ and Genshin is just their only title that doesn't get a free 5* character (not counting Alloy)
Well we call it S class Valkyrie in HI3, but yes it is equal to 5 star character but to be fair most of S class Valkyrie that are given most likely old S class Valkyrie which some of them is power crepted by newer valkryie even some of older OP valkryie now are grindable to get because it get power crepted. For crystal I can't say they give a lot since 10 pulls in HI3 is equal to 2800 instead of 1600, so in the end it's pretty much the same even when I first time hop into genshin I think genshin are little bit more generous on the primogems, why? Because unlike genshin that you can make your character OP without pulling weapon, in HI3 the gap for pulling only character without their respective weapon and stigma are quite big because in HI3 there are no artifact system and most likely the stats and passive from stigma are the one that affecting character builds. (Sorry for the long comment, I am HI3 player since it come out and sometimes I have complain for HI3 too)
@@kuskusdikus6014HI3 gives out like 2-3 S-rank every year on average iirc. There's always one on the anniversary and one during Chinese new year and then they'll also usually give another one out for some event.
The generosity with Hi3 can’t really be compared to Genshin, because most of the valkeries Hi3 gives are pretty power crept. In Hi3, if you don’t have the charater’s signature weapon and stigma, your often pretty weak. Genshin, even without the signature weapon, you can make a character good. Also Hi3 requires 2800 crystals for a 10 pull
1 of the things I wish they add to genshin is the reserved Trailblaze power. If I hit cap on resin every 18 minutes after should give me reserved resin up to 2400 reserved resin. I took a break from honkai and coming back to find I had a stock pool of trailblaze power really made it easy to get my character back on track. You dont really get punished for taking breaks even past events I could go back and do. The only real fomo is characters.
Yeahh, I wish they add reserved trailblaze power, but even then it drains very quickly. Not that I'm complaining I just hope hoyo adds something like this in genshin
@EulaLover1400 It helps returning players stay. If it wasn't for that overflowing power that build up. I would have logged in saw how behind I was and just dropped the game again.
genuinely. i don’t have the ability to do some farming consistently over multiple days. i have time 1 day every now and then so i have to like,, cram-farm. which works well with hsr but the amount of unbuilt characters i have in genshin is just sad :/
This is basically what I was saying earlier, Hoyo has specific audiences in mind with each of their games and gives the player what they need to fully engage with that game. Is it equal on a one to one basis, no but it is equitable. Also SR copies a lot of mechanics from its older sibling HI3, which more of the Genshin community needs to play in order to understand just how utterly crazy the whole game mechanics could be in Genshin and SR. Imagine having to use daily resin to do the Archon Quests.
@@Ai-j7 It really doesn't amount to that much if you are also trying to farm. If you're new and eager to play the story it runs out very fast. First few days playing after unlocking farming I didn't realize this. I would farm first because that's what you do in Genshin and SR and realized I needed stamina to actually play the story (you also get less stamina in the beginning?!?!). Genshin does has level caps but honestly I explored so much that that was never an issue. I'd rather have 160 resin a day than the 220 stamina I had to use for the most recent HI3 chapter I played through (because who plays half a chapter per sit through?!?!)
"imagine having to use resin to do Archon Quest" I'm having Tears of Themis (another Hoyoverse game) flashbacks, since their main story require using stamina to unlock.
sheesh dont remind me of that... im still at the roughly middle point of part 1 in hi3rd... stamina drain SO FAST at the story missions. being able to do the archon quests in a non-stop marathon is a blessing. i can basically farm some materials and do like 3 stages in honkai impact before im out of stamina, its insane.
see this is only "half true", earlier Honkai 3rd chapters are stamina expensive yes because it was just that era of gacha games etc. since "A Shooting Star Streaking Across the Night" which covers the Arc City chapters, it started getting cheaper then "Thus Spoke Apocalypse", "To The Flawless" and "The Day Transcending Finality" didn't cost anything while also being loooooooong. The issue isn't so much that Stamina is too low as much as it is they didn't account for people starting 2-3years+ after the fact and trying to catch up. Sure they could probably go back and change it but older stages are also tied to farming frags for older battlesuits etc.
Basically since star rail is an a turn-based rph, team building is a primary aspect of its appeal and gameplay, so they need to make sure people have the ability to fill party roles in multiple ways so that they don't get bored. For example, it was driving me nuts for a while that Natash was my only healer and ended up in almost every time I built until I finally pulled Huohuo
That is completely irrelevant, Genshin requires you to have certain elements too against certain enemies and they still have yet to even give their players at least a free standard 5 star after 3 whole years. The fact is that SR just has a better management team period.
@@ItachiflameamaterasuGenshin has way more leeway as far as story is concerned. Meanwhile, there is much less wiggle in HSR (see also: My recent vid on Phantylia)
is it bad, tho? like, sure, we have only some characters that are truly strong out of 5* in genshin, but imo - good lore, good character interactions and ability to do all content with characters you truly love wins against powercreep that is happening in hsr, especially with how shallow at some points the story been in there as well, and the game just started.
@@watchwood I think venti, kazuha, and sucrose are just similar characters that have better performance in certain strats, sucrose is better for teams that would like the EM buff, kazuha for teams where elemental damage bonus is better, and venti to decimate ventiable enemies. In their general role as VV holders they're pretty much interchangeable. As long as kazuha is meta sucrose is meta in my opinion (I have both of them)
@@watchwoodventi is the character that does not help you to clear faster, he helps you to deal with the content you already clear with less effort. Sucrose and kazuha are similar in value and in a lot of teams sucrose is better, than him
@@watchwood sucrose and kazuha are around the same, with them just having different strengths and weaknesses but they end up to be around the same level
There is a big factor that often missed here, Competition. Genshin came into a game genre that doesnt really exist and carved its own way. Nobody knew this game going to be this succesful. However star rail came into land already conquered. There is some games already here that shows strong presence and they gave some good/bad examples for Hoyo. They have to be generous from the start to pull some attention. And keep the ball rolling they have been both generous and cautios. Like they keep adding stuff to weekly content permanently.
@@huejanus1333 Genshin is a pioneer for Open World Gacha ARPG. Star Rail exists alongside a sea of turn based gacha rpg, with exploration over a semi openworld area being the unique thing that sets it apart from the rest
@@huejanus1333its the first game of its kind. High end open world anime gacha game. All platforms except switch. Its mobile. Its actually a quality game.
Taking the words right out of my mouth. I will add that not having the characters you need feels a lot worse in HSR compared to Genshin, even if we're just talking about the overworld and events and not MoC or Spiral Abyss. Like, in Genshin I have a severe lack of Cryo DPS units (by virtue of skipping every 5* limited Cryo character except Eula who is an honorary Cryo), and yet Genshin's gameplay design does not heavily punish me for not having a Cryo DPS since there's still other ways to utilize the reactions that Cryo is good for. Meanwhile, you really feel it when you're lacking a DPS for one element in Star Rail (eg. not having Argenti against Physical-weak enemies like... Argenti). Sure you can finagle your way around it but you're not going to be breaking enemies with Sushang or Luka like you do with Argenti. There is a very distinct difference. Same applies to not having a good assortment of characters. I have an alt on both Genshin and HSR and I quit my HSR alt a lot faster compared to Genshin where I still at least do the events even when I'm not farming for anything, because not having a high tier DPS or a high tier sustain on HSR legitimately makes the game feel a lot worse. Like dang, I can't beat this boss, guess I'll have to wait for a banner with a great DPS before I could do something. Oh wait, I'm getting pummeled by this boss and my DPS can't do anything when they're fucking dead, guess I'll have to wait for a banner with a great sustain first. Yes, 4* characters exist but the 5* characters are just on a different tier. Sure there are people who would argue that you can totally clear everything on a no-wish account, but realistically a casual player ain't going to clear MoC with stuff like E0 Dan Heng. They could, but the challenge is not going to be fun for them at all.
ayup, thats how gacha turn-based rpg's operate, frankly, in comparison to genshin. genshin relies mostly on your skill - hsr (and other such games) relies on your wallet and how much you can afford grinding while game actively will bar you from grinding. which, as you could imagine - isnt really fun or good game design, yet people wank on it being superior and dunk on genshin for not doing the same hoops and sticks up the players arses, because god forbid players want to have a good time in a game, instead of earning hemorrhoids'.
@@SorarikoMotoneI disagree with HSR taking less skill. While I prefer genshin's combat due to the elemental reactions and giving me more freedom of movement allowing me to avoid enemy hits. Turn based combat still involves lots of strategizing and learning the mechanics of the game, the enemies and the characters. I do agree that it's stupid how often some people declare HSR objectively better in every aspect even though everything excluding QoL and Generosity is typically based on personal opinion. I also hate how many HSR players constantly shit on genshin players for hardcore defending their game even though they often ignore the issues with the relic system and other aspects that still need work because "at least it's better than genshin" and thus doesn't need any changes
@@I.disagree hsr is horrible compared to other TB games Even 30 years ago we had better mechanics And hoyo can’t have it both ways Either they increase the number of abilities and options during battle or the game will slowly but surely devolve into a grinding powercreep filled void without any real gameplay other than story (which is bad after the catastrophe that was the Xianzhou) I would love for them to actually do something about the turn based cuz now it’s literally just press skill or NA depending on how many Skill points you have and burst every time it’s available For now it’s just not good enough for me I need depth with my turn based 😔
As someone that plays both games, it sometimes feels frustrating to see HSR winning the QoL battle almost immediately over Genshin when the expectation is that it should be the other way around. They took everything players wanted in Genshin and then implemented it into Star Rail. No disrespect to the devs who are making Genshin, but it's not really surprising these comparisons are being made when QoL has been a problem for a while now (and endgame). It's not anything new when players complain about stuff that never gets implemented. The only difference now is that there is a game made by the same developer that's making those same things they've been wanting in a different game, and that's driving the feedback and likely the whole "Genshin could never." sentiment (And no you can not use some other thing like Genshin's scenery or worldbuilding or whatnot as a rebuttal to how Genshin's developers are better because you're just deflecting the issue at hand). Giving out Dr. Ratio is pretty much a win-win for Star Rail anyway, especially in terms of marketing. Giving out something that's supposed to be rare for free will always generate a lot of buzz and that's precisely what happened with Dr. Ratio. It started the ball rolling again on how Star Rail is being more generous to its players (and what became the base for the video). What's funny about it is that this came just after Genshin released a new round of QoL updates which all things considered are pretty good, then Star Rail swoops in a week later and steals the spotlight.
Not the same developer, but rather same company. Different dev teams, that's the issue. I miss liking genshin... it was so much fun back when I was enjoying it. And I was REALLY enjoying it. It was a magical experience. Now I have memories and awesome playlists 😅
hsr isnt "winning" tho. its much easier to add to an empty plate than to a full one, not to mention that hsr literally has dozens upon dozens of competitors, some of which actually do a better job at qol and marketing as well (hello r:1999). nor is ratio is that much of a win, especially since the game, even outside of endgame, asks for aoe dps more, so for how long he will be useful - only time knows.
HSR isn't really "winning". Everything that was added to Genshin after HSR's release was done better than HSR. It only wins in rewards department which... Yeah, Genshin can get away with giving out less
It is funny how most of the things you said are exactly the things I talked about with a friend. But I would also like to add a (hot) take from myself about this whole topic. I strongly believe that the core gameplay of each game is something we need to consider more in such discussions. As you somewhat stated it is needed in HSR to have multiple characters of the same role, only to clear specific content, where you are able to "solo" most of the content in Genshin. This is only possible because genshin is an action rpg and not turn based - so there is more to consider when designing a character OR even giving out freebies. For the record: I would also like to get more freebies in Genshin. But to be honest there is something I would like to see even more than freebies in Genshin: just getting more damn primos in generell. Sometimes it feels like a chore to grind for this damn things, where in other gacha the equivalent comes much more naturally, while you play.
Supporting this: While solo is possible, it is very painful because genshin team comps benefit from either reactions or in the case of anemo/geo looping with the most buffs possible, but I see the point and it still is understandable. The problem with core gameplay is that because effective damage in genshin is so closely tied to reactions, most people don't diversify even if there are more characters in the same role (the only exception I can think of with this is yelan and xingqiu where they are treated like an extra copy of the other and can be used in the second half team for abyss). More proof that these are games played completely differently: fu xuan and dehya... their kits are very similar yet dehya is seen as a 5* dud while fu xuan is broken. Though this isn't only an issue with core gameplay it's also diversity: compare to SR where as long as you can kill it with auto, any team should work (oversimplifying). This can be solved with freebies too, currently genshin alternates with their free 4* with either a character or a weapon. Characters from 1.0 should be excluded since the shop hasn't changed in 3 years, but aside from that I think genshin should focus more on their 4* cast and make them idk good? Sara and Faruzan can't realistically be used unless they are C6 which is a tall order for someone who doesn't pull because they fell for drip marketing, leaks, or simply not liking the rate up 5*. I think just giving more 4*, even if someone won't use them until C6, will be more effective than an event weapon that'll be forgotten until someone uses it to gauge how old an account is like it's carbon dating. This is likely the reason why people enjoy Lantern Rite so much, players are given their choice to pick from a (liyue) 4* they either don't have or one they desperately need constellations for.
because mechanics tied around these chars are not very synergistic ... you really dont want a barbra as your hydro applyer for your yanfei ... will it work YES ... will it feel like shit ALSO YES@@Silver-Arrow
Exactly this. I've been getting multiple 5*s in HSR left and right meanwhile I'm barely getting my favourite characters in Genshin because of the amount of primos they're giving per patch...
less map chests and chests giving more primos would be a way to go. Otherwise just making the map worth exploring by making the primos in quests, and the quests go all over the map. But searching for hidden chests is extremely fucking annoying because in other games, this bitches give you high tier equipment, in genshin they give you 1/10 of a fucken roll.
@@Silver-Arrow speaking about giving more free 4* characters, they're finally giving us a free Gorou instead of a Bennett or Xingqiu for once (our first free geo character not on the lantern rite choice pool)
I think one of the major issues these days is gaming mentality. There are more people now with the mentality of "If I hate it then the developers should be ashamed for not making it the way I like it and everyone else who like it are idiots" and less " ok so I do not like it. I will just move on and play something I like and let people who like it just enjoy it instead" mind set. I have played Mihoyo games since Honkai impact 3rd before Genshin Impact release sky rocketed Mihoyo's fame to more larger public eyes. I enjoy all 3 games for different reasons. However, I feel the conflict between the different games made by the same company is rather pointless when each game is made for different type of themes and experience.
That, and general entitlement for free things. It'd be like expecting a music artist to give out free albums because they won a Grammy or an Oscar-winning actor/actress giving our free tickets to his/her next film because he/she won an Oscar. The only community that has this entitled mentality is the modern gaming community, and I have noticed it has started because of casuals/people who don't typically game. Like the first anniversary thing was so petty, and especially ridiculous/laughable were the people who seriously thought cookie run was going to overtake Genshin/were telling people to play it instead, despite it being a completely different game/boring as fuck, just because their rewards were free lol. Yeah it's nice to get free stuff, but you're not entitled to it. HSR despite the hubbub around its launch has greatly struggled to maintain player attention and it is pretty much a dead game at this point, despite riding on Genshin's coattails in being the first game released right after it. Honkai just doesn't have that much of an interesting story, the characters are bland, and generally the style of the game isn't as appealing as Genshin's. They have great graphics, but that's about it, and a nice-looking game isn't worth very much if there's no content/story. Yes, it won best upcoming game, but it had some Hello Kitty Island game as its competition, come on lmao. Genshin won best ongoing game, which is a lot harder to do, especially being the pioneer re: Hoyoverse having an international presence. HI3 has a very dedicated fan base, but it's pretty small becaus that game just isn't as appealing (it's made for men who like yuri, HSR has tried to diversify by actually including male characters, but their designs aren't as good as Genshin husbandos, sorry.) If Dr. Ratio were in Genshin, he'd be extremely mid compared to Chad designs like Dottore and Zhongli. He's not ugly or anything but he's also not incredibly hot, he's just a generically handsome anime guy.
I personally think that Genshin is/was tanking the cost for HSR in terms of the generous freebies, now that its getting more revenue...i cope that genshin considers giving a little bit more...i can totally see genshin totally dropping real hard if HSR keeps on giving more freebie and genshin keeps on asking for more money, genshin players are absolutely crazy that google classroom incident even happen when it shouldnt have
HSR is moving at lightspeed in both good and bad aspects, they made a killing job with some banners but they also dropped really hard compared to how long it took Genshin to get low banner sales, the google classroom incident shouldn't have happened but not because players weren't entitled to be mad. Hoyoverse (Mihoyo back then) asked daddy google to remove the bad reviews from Genshin, why do you care about your game just at that point? if you're getting review bombed then fix the problem first then ask for it to be rolled back, I didn't participate because I already gave it a 1* rating due to optimization problems and mine got removed as well, the anniversary was underwhelming, didn't feel like a celebration and honestly Hoyoverse sucks at communicating with their players, Hoyo games were review bombed because Hoyo failed and Google classroom got review bombed because they dipped their hand on the hot oil. I'm not saying we as players are entitled to free stuff, but don't spam the shit out of every social media platform with an anniversary just to give 10 gems to 1000 players, don't go around thinking that you're already being generous when this game already skips regular holidays in favor of in game events that ain't fixed and regular, don't act like the anniversary is important to you just to give scraps and call it a feast. I love how we get a fixed amount of gems per patch and people go around thinking Hoyo is extremely generous when that thing is an incentive to play, I wouldn't be playing if getting something for free wasn't possible (even tho I can whale for characters regularly), don't act like 100$ to not even secure a character is decent when they release 4 per patch, don't cheat yourself into thinking that a 10 pull is extremely generous because they value that shit at 30$ Hoyo has a game so good that you can look away as they do their players dirty. Genshin has an expiration date and 3 years after the release they realized that keeping players in might be a decent idea, for the first time in 3 years I can say I'm glad with the QoL we got, just that it shoudln't have took them 3 years but wtv, I'm just sad that it will take them 3 more years to realize that people may want to be able to play the 76 soon 77 character and counting they have and once the story is done there's just a single place to do so, ONCE! every TWO WEEKS!!! the point of this last part is that the game can't seem to pick a lane, are characters important? then give them a reason to exist, they aren't? then maybe try being a little less stingy. I actually consider Genshin players quite tame if you consider how horrible Hoyo behaves towards them, I've never felt like such a inconvenience in any other game, is like they're actively trying to get people to quit.
For Star Rail anniversary, it’s a long shot, but imagine the outcry if Star Rail anniversary has a 5-Star Selector for ANY past or current Limited and Standard 5-Star character. I want that to happen just to see the drama that unfolds on Twitter with a bucket of popcorn beside me.
It's legally can't happen. But here is the problem, now starail anniversary reward is put up on such a high regard if it wont be what people expecting there will be a riot.
I'm actually intrigued on how would the devs do with the rewards in their anniversary since with how much generous this game is players would expect so much for the anniv and what would happen if the devs did not meet the players expectations
If you think that HSR wont get a 5-star selector for the anniversary, you are crazy. You are awfully unaware of how much 5 star characters HYV gives out in HI3. Seeing the trend on how they rewards players within the Honkai title, I’d say its a guarantee
There is already some datamining and leaks that suggest a 5* selector for HSR anniversary. The only thing we don't know yet is whether it's standard only or if it includes limited characters.
Good approach to the discussion. To add to the discussion one may take upon a wider perspective that accounts for the larger gacha/mobile game market which influences these decisions. Turn based games are very common place within this market and as a result need to find methods to differentiate and attract players to their product over others. Earlier you showcased Granblue Fantasy which is a prime example of a turn based gacha that adopts "generous" practices from time to time to maintain player attention/retention. In contrast there really isn't another product similar to Genshin Impact that has a significant hold within the market. Tower of Fantasy is the closest Genshin has seen to a competitor but even then that's only one other well known product competing with it. All of which is to say that another reason Genshin is less generous is because they are less incentivized to be due to lacking genre competition within the market.
Yeah these are exactly my thoughts. Freebies aren't just to pull players back but to entice new ones in, and some of those new ones are gonna be existing gacha players. How many people look at their GBF or FGO accounts, think "good enough", and don't start HSR? Whereas if you wanna play an open world gacha your choices are play Genshin, or wait for the competitors (which will probably start coming this year with Wuthering Waves). HSR is successful of course, but no successful game underestimates its competition.
Genshin’s marketing team is also insane. The lengths they go to for collaborations to get their products out there surpasses even the likes of Disney, especially these days.
@@ayag.8306yeah their marketing tactics are insane they hire WHOLE orchestras to play their soundtrack, anime conventions are filled with genshin cosplayers, they do irl events for charities and other stuff just because genshin doesnt give freebies doesnt mean the game will "flop" bro when you have no competition for your genre its so easy to keep player retention, fontaine and sumeru got me hooked
i play genshin, hsr and gbf, among many other gacha games for... 9 years already total. all i can say is - over-generosity in these games isnt exactly a good thing. its either to entice players, or... to hide something. for gbf - its a major banner bloat, for hsr and hi3 - constant powercreep (less for hsr but i'm afraid it soon will reach that point too) and the game strong-arming you into having characters you dont want, but need because of them making even the content casuals are supposed to be able to finish harder and harder. and so to keep the playerbase playing, they do this. not to mention that most of these qol are ones that make games like hsr literally unplayable because all the game has is.... grind. genshin has, in comparison, a lot of things to do.
@@SorarikoMotone not to mention hsr has a pretty bad story overall i mean their world building is pretty good but general story building in the loufu is disgustingly bad
I definitely feel I _need_ more characters just to clear contents in HSR compared to Genshin at around the same period. In Genshin all I needed in first 12 months was 2x DPS (one of them was 4*) at max and 6~8 support/ sub dps (mostly 4*) to around lv 70. Besides (apart from following story which both games have), combat is _all you do_ in HSR: you don't explore, solve puzzles, learn to dodge the boss attack by studying its patterns (= optional, but doing this can compensate for having relatively low DPS / using non-meta characters). In HSR being able to dish out enough dmg within limited turns is crucial - have the right breaker, buffer, debuffer, speed booster, energy or sp generator - whatever that might take. Naturally you want as many options as possible.
This is the situation of genshin being TOO easy. Positive for beginners but negative for Old players since the hardest challenge in the game (12A) Can littearly be solo'ed by a good build Dps
@@shutup1037 Huh. Then for a baby game, it's a rather successful one regardless. Also, I don't think baby games depict an instance of suicide, the reality of mortality, mass genocide of an entire tribe, etc.
I honestly agree with this approach. As someone who play both games. I honestly feel tired of the loud toxic minority in both communities. The ones in the genshin community with the "better hit them where it hurts" mentality that thinks that harassment is the solution and hoyoverses owes them something. And the ones in the Honkai Star Rail community that search genshin related content and go out of their way to fight in comments with those same toxic players just to rub in the free character making the HSR players look entilted and childish. Like bro, wtf are you doing, that doesn't represent the genshin community nor the star rail one at all, actual players couldn't care less about what the other thinks or receive, like istg I've never seen so many toxic people in the same place when trying to search for game news or seeing twitter community posts, leave the poor person behind the official genshin/star rail twitter alone, log off and touch grass, its just a game, you have a life to attend💀
Glad to see your return! Hope you've been well. Definitely agree that building multiple characters feels way more at the core of what HSR is about, so giving freebies to incentivise this makes sense. Tho I will say I do hope that HSR starts to slow down on its new characters now there's a bit of a buffer for re-runs, I don't want power-creep like DHIL and Jingliu to keep happening every other patch, and also don't want them to "run out" of interesting kit ideas this early in the game's life.
I completely agree though I do believe power creep is a bit of non issue considering all the unites after jingliu and dan havent had damage close to them but rather intresting kits like topaz and ratio and argenti
Power creep is not that much of an issue dw about it. They're not unusable, they'll just have a bit of slower clear time than before or compared to the new character
Right. I dont feel any fomo for pulling any new characters in genshin anymore. Im fine if XL is my fire sub dps forever lol. Whereas I feel like the characters I have in star rail is not enough. Character/team bldg is the biggest aspect of turn based games whereas Im pretty much happy with my current characters while exploring genshin. Havent pulled a single fontaine character lmao. Of course, I'd probably feel the same way with HSR probably after 2-3 years.
Star Rail faces tougher competition as its a turn based game, it has to compete with big names like FGO and GBF, but one reason I think Star Rail is, and I personally think needs to be, generous is player retention and how the game is structured. Genshins characters arent purely based on their individual kits but also their elements, reactions are a major mechanic in Genshin and even if you dont have a specific character you can always substitute them with a different one as long as the required element and maybe utility is met and reactions allow most characters in Genshin to shine even if theyre considered weaker. Star Rail doesnt really have that luxury, you will genuinely feel it when you lack specific character archetypes for specific fights, its not really easy to substitute them because your rotations, skill point management, and other factors get thrown for a loop. Characters in SR are also basically the bulk of the content, in Genshin exploration, puzzles, and other side content are more prevalent. Its far more limited in SR which makes combat through things like SU and MoC and the occasional event the bulk of the games playable content. Also both games have bad grinds but I'll take Genshins artifact grind over Star Rails any day as 1. Genshin has room for off pieces in sets, 2. Ornaments are genuinely one of the worst things to farm in the game 3. Recycling artifacts is way cheaper and self-modelling resin at best gives temporary pieces because theyre still subject to horrible substat rng. In terms of materials both games give out about the same so its a slog to get in either.
The fact I've geared more characters in star rail than in genshin makes more think star rail is easier and quicker. Yes no offpiece but the offpiece in genshin is often the goblet. The equivalent in Star Rail drops a lot more percentage wise, so there's more chance to get your orb and element of choice. You can get a bit pickier with your subs unlike the goblet in genshin where if you get 1 sub you're happy.
and then you forgot about how genshin time gates their artifacts and character mats and "have to wait" for monday, wednesday or even sunday. Where as starrail doesn't do that goofy sh*t, so cope hard kid.
"In terms of materials they give the same" that's totally false just from the energy system HSR have more with 240, if u only farming relics that day, u get 12 5* compare to 8 in Genshin and per week in HSR u get double the Genshin. That's just flat out wrong
genshin don't timegate artifacts domains bro, only character talents and weapon ascension materials and it's not even that important, since from 1.0 genshin kinda tell the players to slow down with how they design their contents. Also, in genshin you dont need to be strong as early as star rail, underleveled or worst build possible still can clear most contents thanks to elemental reaction. @@meme_lover.69
So much ignorance and lack of awareness is wild. Specially that last paragraph is just filled with the most delusional babbling I've read in a while now. U can try to apply all the contentious logic u want to help u cope. It's ok. We get it. You're a genshin stan, you don't have to prove anything.
I feel like Genshin is gonna get the Star Rail treatment once it finally gets some competition, so far Genshin is the only really successful open world Gatcha game (We got Tower of Fantasy but that game was just a mess and it fell off pretty quickly), and because of the monopoly that they have over the open world gatcha scene they don’t need as many marketing strategies (i.e. giving out free rewards), Wuthering Waves is probably the only game that I’ve seen that has the opportunity to be an actual competitor to Genshin
It's not happening. Because you all fail to realize the difference between the games. Other gachas are prone to powercreep, but genshin? National team is plenty still strong and even the free characters like Kaeya, Lisa, Collei, Traveler, and noelle are good, even now, when you put sufficient effort into them. They give free five stars because they NEED to to keep players engaged and not frustrated. Its a need, not a generosity. I see so many people kiss the boots of much more predatory games just because they give free five stars once a year or smthng. I quit HSr because it didn't interest me and recently went back and it's so much more of a pain with just starters than Genshin could ever be. Especially since I raised my equilibrium without prefarming. Just pain and suffering.
Genshin will likely never face real competition. There’s absolutely no incentive for them to give any handouts when clearly the player base won’t leave. The only problem I see is the barrier for new players as they have no manner to build new characters even if they do have a level 90 party. Genshin might “fix” that but nothing else will be better.
I think one of the biggest reasons for HSR's generosity compared to Genshin is that HSR isn't as groundbreaking as Genshin. It has to compete with other games, unlike Genshin which was, and still is, genre defining. Because they have to compete with other games to keep people playing, they give more rewards. With Genshin, there is no real competition. Wuthering Waves might become competition later, but as of right now, there are no other games that offer what Genshin does, so they have to do much less to keep people playing.
The way I see it is Star Rail can’t afford to be like Genshin because of its mechanics. If you don’t have the necessary characters to tackle specific kinds of enemies you will hit a very tough wall. It’s honestly a little shocking to me it took this long for Star Rail to give players a free imaginary character meant for breaking toughness because Yukong is definitely not that. Players who don’t have Welt or the two limited imaginary characters just don’t get to play with that mechanic reliably. Genshin makes sure you have everything you need to solve all their puzzles, as well as added additional characters for free to continue that mentality as well as a second healer. A free 5 star would definitely be good advertising but I can’t ignore their open world play style filled with free resources is meant to incentivize putting in time exploring if you don’t want to swipe. Star Rail doesn’t have that luxury because it’s not open world. They have to be more direct in their rewards alongside said their quicker rotations for players to keep up. Genshin also does a free 4 star every other event most of the time but because it’s not a 5 star people don’t care. So as much as I want them to give one I can’t really say they have any need to. A big thing the community always says is that any character can clear the hardest content with enough effort. That isn’t true for Star Rail💀
The wall thing hits home. I lucked out getting Welt from the starter banner and I started during Luochas banner so I had him as well as Yukong. Imaginary enemies were never a problem. Ice on the other hand has been a bear to deal with because I was told not to build Herta (bad advice, build everyone in this game. Everyone!) March is okay at freezing stuff but not nessisairily breaking and my Plela suffers from bad artifact RNG so she has never performed well for me. And since I refuse to spend on this game and pull for units I like, I never pulled Jinglu, nor d I have dying sword boy, so yeah the wall is real.
“As much as I want them to give one I can’t really say they have the need to” that right there is the problem if you don’t tell them what they doing is wrong. You basically letting them taking advantage of you. This is no different than getting wrongfully arrested admitting your guilt when you have the right to speak out.
I do think power creep plays a role, too. Genshin does have power creep in the sense that sometimes, newer characters are stronger than older ones, but Spiral Abyss is the only endgame in town. Its difficulty can vary depending on the enemy lineup, but on the whole it's not noticeably harder now than it was in 1.X. Honkai Star Rail, on the other hand, is not only giving us a plethora of different endgame modes (MoC, Swarm Disaster V, Gold and Gears V Conundrum 12, the upcoming Pure Fiction), it's also added two stages to MoC and upped the requirements for 3-star clears before we've even hit 2.0. Compounding this is the fact that, generally speaking, 5-star characters are better than their 4-star equivalents. This is true for both games to some extent, but Honkai Star Rail has been more consistent and deliberate in upholding this. Compare Sushang to Seele, or Natasha to Luocha, or even Asta to Ruan Mei, and you'll realize there really is no comparison. Is it still possible to fully clear MoC with just 4-stars? Yes, but you'll need to spend twice as much effort to get the godly relics needed to achieve the same result, and at the rate we're going, I don't know if it'll still be possible in, say, 3.X. As much as I dislike some things about Genshin, it has never had this issue and most likely never will. So I think this is why Dr. Ratio is free. Because otherwise, newer players and those who skipped the big DPS units like Dan IL or Jingliu would have no hope of catching up, and MHY is aware of this. They realize the power creep is happening, and don't really plan to fight it, but don't want people to quit over it either. And the only way out of that kind of dilemma is to make sure EVERYONE gets to sample some of the fun new toys you're making.
While i agree to the points of HSR being generous than Genshin, the game mechanics part isnt true at all, and painting Genshin's gameplay is generic and monotome is simply just disingenuous and incredibly biased. What is boring in Genshin is its endgame modes, but the elemental reaction based gameplay with all the gauge theory nuances and dodging mechanics is far more engaging than the mostly elemental matching for shield breaking gameplay in a turn based combat. Believe it or not, you cant just brute force all the way through abysses using a single team. Remember the 3.7 abyss with the survival and elemental check? Yeah. So before you go bandwagoning on the Genshin hateboner, try to stand at a more objective position and appreciate the strengths both games have to offer.
Another thing you forgot to mention is that genshin at its core is an open world exploration game. Key word exploration. A lot of the rewards in genshin are also tied to the exploration...characters being the exception. You dont have that in star rail. So its really a question on the dleiverance. Star rail dumps its all in your lap no questions ask...but you actually have to do stuff for rewards in genshin like look around the map.
All the rewards in Star Rail are locked behind fun endgame content that actually challenges the characters that you have built. In Genshin, after you explore everything and collected every single chest and time trial, there is jack shit to do. People say "play other games" but that evades the fact that Genshin has no other content at all. While HSR is chock full of endgame content.
You still get less rewards even after clearing everything in Genshin, and those reward’s don’t take you as far. An F2P player can’t even dream of pulling for a 5* character every patch in Genshin, let alone a weapon, while in HSR you can easily grab a 5* character every single patch, and even F2Ps have some signature Light Cones to their name. The experience of exploring the world is a big part of the reward in Genshin, but the tangible rewards are seriously lacking.
@@paulyvii Dude some of us LOATH "endgame" content. Genshin was literally made with that audience in mind. It's the reason why I don't go around saying Star Rail is a crappy game because it lacks exploration and story and I don't like MOC and SU. I'm NOT it's target audience, and it sounds like you are. Not everything has to be made with you in mind.
@@Limrick1029 I have 2 Genshin accounts, one F2p, where I limit my pulls. With only 8 limited 5 stars (in a year of playing I have a small fortune in unused primos) and only free stuff I can still clear abyss easily and have been for over 6 months. You don't need a new 5 star every patch in Genshin in order to stay competitive. On my other account I've literally gotten sick of pulling new units and building them (62 characters and all but 5 or 6 are built). Meanwhile, on my Star Rail account I have NOT been able to pull a 5 star every patch because I can't access much of the endgame rewards. Sometimes I can't even get all the event jades. The only signature 5 star light cones I have are from the standard banner. I can barely 3 star floor7 of MoC. You might think SR is more generous than Genshin but they are about the same. The difference is the player and how well they are able or willing to access the game.
I'm always surprised at the amount of players who's worlds I spawn into and they have 0 exploration done (not even exagerating). I'm ar 60 so I'm mostly getting paired with ar 50 and up. I'm like" you haven't explored ANYTHING not even Monstat?" And the answer I get is "I hate exploring." "It's marketed as an open world game though..."
Many factors, but it all boils down to this dude. For people that don't know: Cai Haoyu is the former head honcho that oversaw the development of HI3rd, and he is notorious for how stingy he is when it comes to the rewards he gives to the players that play the games he oversees.
@@jdjGSHBFjh68827 that dude has not worked on genshin for years now but i get it. you all need a face to blame for your frustrations. even if it means making up shit that doesnt actually exist and hasnt existed for years now. we all need something to cope with, after all.
I also think it just has to do with the fact that honkai star rail has far much more competition for retention than genshin. The closest games to genshin that are gacha are Punishing Grey and Honkai Impact 3rd, games that have similar combat but lack the open world asthetic to the same extent. Honkai has to compete with just about any gacha with a turn based or gacha system. Like as far as I am aware, the most consistent turn based gacha out there is FGO and it has an established fan base in Fate, hsr doesn't have that. So to compete, you gotta give a lot of pity compared to a game like fgo where pity is non existent. Its the best way to get good rep with gacha gamers, I mean look at Nikke, obviously theres another appeal for Nikke but they also make it very easy to get the characters you want, and in turn it makes a decent amount of money.
They did end up giving out the base Herrscher form of the Honkai trio and some other like Ai, mobius, etc, for free at a certain point in HI3 (maybe just because the game's story is basically near finished at the time), on top of the other farmable ones. Or maybe Genshin is just the different child.
this is different HI3 always gave out more shit. even at the start when the game was a literal scam since you needed to gacha to LV UP weapons you already had pulled in gacha. later this upgrade material became abundant for free. but even that the start HI3 gave tons of free skins. i played the first summer even soon after launch and got 4 bikinis for free and only 1 skin of the 5 was a paid one.(also funny how those bikinis are nos soft banned since other players cannot see them if you play coop with them and they cant see them in the characters available skins.) love himeko in a thing black bikini. honkai gave more free skins away in the first 1 o 2 year than genshin has total skins. also all 4 stars in HI3 are FREE you get them for free and farm them to C6 or E6 for free over 3 months. and they also give a ton of 5 stars for free new and old. if genshin was like this venti and zhongli would both be free by now. also in Hi3 I got all the characters in the game. as a 5$ monthly player with all older 5 star now C6 from farming.
@@lucaskp16 not gonna mention how all those free characters typically need their signature gear to not feel like shit in endgame grinding? no? ok lol typical honkai player that doesnt speak on the shit powercreep and what not.
@@justsomeguy727 here is the diff. in hi3 abyss has rankings. i was in myriad abyss that pretty much req you yo pull almost every character all full gear I didn't so I went up there and right down next abyss. but for the second tier red lotus I could do everything easy with characters pull as a 12 USD monthly player of bp+montlypass. and for a tier down from there you could just be free 2 play. not the difference in crystal from the tiers was not that big. 520 top 500 second and 460 third 420 fourth where enemies where weak as fuck. the diff between tier is big like a 3x in hp of enemies. so the diff between buying every character full gear and pulling all the characters with almost no gear was 100 crystal. but the game was more generous I played at the star so I have the now ban for new players old bikinis. but quit because it was a shit experience unless you spend a lot and because I was still playing GGZ their previous game at the time. then came back with eva event release and from that point forward in less than 2 years I got every single character in the game and most of them with full fear. skipping only bait characters that where unnecessary for abyss like future adult bronya. but end up getting her and her gear later on anyway and pulling for other weapons and stigmas got her full gear.
I'm just tired of every time HSR adds anything you can already predict that the first thing half the community will do is talk shit about Genshin and make fun of anyone who dares say they like Genshin. Seriously this is already getting ridiculous and annoying and I'm sure it will only get worse when ZZZ launches.
At this point people, siding genshin devs in the face of them being lazy/complacent with how they handle the game are like those people who say that eating dog shit is indeed not bad and it in fact tastes like chocolate. Of course you’d laugh at them.
@@Daniele-PierreDuLac The problem is acting like it's not a good game when Genshin has quality and consistency in content that you almost don't see in the gacha market, there's always an event going on, a new area to explore, a character gets more characterization, etc... But everyone isolates the negatives and acts as if the rest doesn't exist
@@gyanaranjansenapati1548 Look at the quality of explorable areas, history, characters, lore, events, etc... The game maintains a constant standard of quality that you don't see in almost any game on the market.
Also, I wouldn't say that Genshin is the kind of game where you collect loads of characters for loads of different scenarios or just.. to collect - this could probably be a reason as they have different gameplay + game styles.
It is boring to play the same characters in any gacha tho. In my experience the lack of currency to pull for different characters made me quit a lot of stingy gachas. It certainly made me quit Genshin in literally one month and play Star Rail since its release every day 😂
@@Lusc1nt That's just Gacha for you, they're fun until you run into the clear issues with them. So either you stick it out for loads of things you like, or you just don't bother.
Saying star rail is more generous than genshin is like saying honkai impact is more generous than star rail; its not generosity at all, is more like pity of you, player that will *have* to go for more characters/weapons cuz good luck getting a decent score on honkai impact's "abyss" without the perfect meta unit for the current weather lol Also, idk if its just me but events on star rail tend to want more attention/time of you to get all the useful rewards than genshin, idk how to feel about that but it is certainly annoying to know that I have to clear the new, long af permanent mode to get some extra rewards, straight up said "fuck huo huo" and just got the free lc at s5 then ignored the extra rewards.
I mean that event was supposed to be the main content of the update. Imagine if it was really short and could be completed in an hour then you had to wait 6 weeks to get more 💀
For me the reason they are Generous in HSR is because they also want to increase the market even more. HSR literally made more or the same profit with Genshin within 4 months of release, with half the player base. Now imagine you double that player base and the profit would totally doubled as well. But you're statement seems true as well, I never thought about it, HSR genre is just fundamentally different to an Open World focused game where u don't need a lot of characters to play with.
I think HSR is just more generous in general, the fact that you just get free pulls whenever a new update drops in HSR compared to Genshin which only does it during its anniversary and lantern rite events shows enough difference.
Bruhh every game when it gets released has alot hype around it HSR got released during Dead patches for Genshin so alot of players tried it out(including me) and spent some money (including me) but if u see the HSR graph is falling and Falling also On top that HSR releases 2 new 5 star characters per patch whereas Genshin only releases 1 character patch they basically Double Sucking the whales cuz they are gonna C6/E6 everything and also HSR is already having the Power creepet problem where new characters are just stronger than characters released previous patch and In genshin that's only really the case like the only case of powercreep u can make is Neuvilette being Over ayato but that's a far stretch cuz ayato does have that Off-field presence whereas Neuvilette doesn't, I feel HSR is just releasing way to many characters for Whale to dump there money on whereas genshin is not at the same speed and Also Old characters are just as good as new ones when comes to Damage per Rotation
@@idhantmandlecha5703 1. Which graph of HSR is falling? If ur saying the popularity, it doesn't matter the profit is still great over the course of 4 months and for Hoyo that's good 2. Powercreep only happens when DanIL came out, if u've seen the newer characters they are supports for existing characters (Topaz), a less powerful DPS (JingLiu), an Okay Healer (HuoHuo), and an all right Phys DPS (Argenti), so which character are you calling powercreep? 3. HSR is a whale bait cause they release too many characters. That's already stated in the video that the fundemental of the game is different, where they're filling holes and new roles with each of new characters because every content is combat focused.
@@pistonfry bro jingliu is even better and does more damage than dhil but if you whale and have dhil at e2 thats where he can go crazy otherwise at e0 dhil doesnt beat jingliu
6:20 since dendro came out I’ve been using the same hyperbloom team (changing a bit when I get more characters) and it works well (except the fact that my builds are trash but that’s on me) EVERYWHERE. I don’t even think on getting characters that don’t fit this play style unless I’m playing for too long and get bored
I think the reason that HSR is getting 2 new 5\*s per patch is just because it's earlier in its lifecycle. Genshin got 2 per patch back when it first released. Genshin released 2 new 5\*s every patch up until 2.1 (Raiden Shogun + Sangonomiya Kokomi), 2.2 actually had no new 5\*s (Hu Tao + Childe reruns), and 2.3 started the trend of 1 new 5\* and double reruns. 3.0 upped it further to the current system of 1 new 5\* and *3* rerun banners (1 with the new 5\* and 2 on the other half of the patch). I'm sure that eventually HSR will drop down to 1 new 5\* per patch (they're already up to 4 total banners with 2 new and 2 rerun), but for right now since there are just fewer characters than Genshin, they can add 2 new 5\*s per patch without causing issues with rerun schedules like when Eula took almost a full year to rerun.
I don't see how giving 10 pulls for free is considered "generous" when you're basically forced to skip half of the characters. I play all hoyo games and this is the most stressful one when it comes to pulls.
How is 10 free pulls not generous, care to elaborate?, even if you don't want the character in the banner you can just save those 10 tickets for a future banner and after some updates you will have a bunch of them to build piti or to push a 50/50, your point makes no sense bud, cope harder next time.
Fun fact in Form of Solidity (Ice martial exhibit) 4:30 if you pick "Arm Bar" for round 2 and "Rear Naked Choke" for round 3 then on the final round you can focus one enemy to freeze them while saving pela's aoe ult which will freeze the unfrozen enemy and break the frozen on the other refreshing her ult allowing for an infinite loop. With this you can easily one cycle the final round.
The community are pretty much black pilled. No wonder even their content maker contribute the terrible reputation GI game have. Too many corrupt creator in Hoyo Sphere I'm pretty slowly but surely packing by bags and get to other player more welcoming than this corrupted community...
im a day one HSR player, (except im causal since i much prefer genshin, but i do login for the dailies and that stuff) and i was so shocked and confused when they announced that dr. ratio is free. you could argue it's because the honkai series is what put food on their table all those years ago with GGZ and the early days of HI3 which is 100% valid, but it's still so confusing to me. sure, genshin is their cash cow, why would they want to give stuff out for free that decreases the amount of income they're receiving? except they already do some giveaways, like the welkin ones for the anniversaries and whatnot, so it's not like its unheard of from genshin. heck, we even got aloy, but she was a collab character (and really bad) so most people don't seem to count her. tbh i hope that they be more generous in genshin, but it doesn't affect me that much as somebody who plays both games. hopefully we get something good during lantern rite! (if leaks are to go off of, anyway.)
Your take on this topic makes sense honestly, turn-based games are everywhere in the gachas alongside the Idle genre, but even then this still doesn’t explain genshins obvious stinginess. Like why is this game 3 years old and still hasn’t given out even ONE non-limited 5 star character let alone weapon? Literally one of if not the stingest anniversary and game awards rewards I’ve ever seen even more so then average gachas. But I think they are being a bit more generous this lantern rite? Don’t know. Didn’t really look to much into it.
I am thinking it's their Artistic hubris that makes them not give anything. Genshin probably takes 4 times more work compared to a normal Gacha to develop. Plus, their world building, open world and characters are some of the best we can experience on the Gacha scene and no other game comes close. Their hubris makes them think they are the best in the world or something, when good story based games outside the Gacha genre exist.
nah, its because people are greedy. we already see ungrateful people whining over ratio because they dont want him, they want another 5* like ruan or smth. for y'all it will be NEVER enough. which is the true hubris of gacha players - greed. @@RKNancy
I mean, what is not to understand? There is no competition for GI, so why give the rewards? They are saving that for when there is competition and they want their players to stay or get back lost players or get newer players. HSR is playing in the extremely saturated auto-play turn-based collect-the-characters gacha market. It needs to be generous or it won't be able to compete with well established gachas already.
@@SorarikoMotone sure man the gacha players are greedy and not the multi-billion dollar company 💀 hyv white knights always have the most braindead takes
@@SorarikoMotone too many greed and manipulated by toxic influencers are here they never see a good perspective of the game they just want rewards more more rewards and freebies
I agree and I think that's the consensus over all. I believe he phrased it a bit wrong. I think his main point is that they improved the systems a bit after people complained about it. Meanwhile in Genshin we've had very little improvements to the grinding systems even though we've been asking for them for years. Only recently did they start doing some nice QoL changes.
Care to expound? Other than it maybe costing more per character to build which i kinda see, HSR does seem to make all the QoL changes to make rhe building process easier. Would like to hear your perspective tho!
I don’t think anything in HSR matches the tedium of having to wait for bosses to respawn a dozen times, or only being able to get a weekly boss’s rewards once a week.
Many players crap on Genshin for its artificial time gating of the material domains, but for me, this time gating helps me, a f2p player, to conserve resin better and not waste too much time to grind for artifacts. My routine when building characters in Genshin is farming boss mats for levels, then farming domains for weapon mats, then farming domains for talent mats, then artifacts. Since weapon and talent mats are time gated, I made sure to weave in artefact grinding on days when the domains are not open. Sure, you won't get to use your new character on the spot, but by the time you have your levels, weapons and talents maxes, you'd already have some artifacts. Granted, you may not have a full set, the subsets may be trash, so you may need to grind more, but on lucky days, you'd have some usable artifacts by the time you have your new character maxed. I'm a f2p player who cares a bit about meta to be choosy on characters I want to use, but not too much that I would grind for months for perfect top stat artifacts, so make of that what you will. For me, this system is good enough. In HSR, all the domains are open everyday, so your characters are maxed faster. However, you would still need to grind for artifacts, and the absence of domain time gating will impose no limit on your artifact grinding, so I may be stuck to grind artifacts for a specific character for too long. I still have no suitable shoes for my Dan Heng IL 😢 yet I still haven't farmed the mats for Dr Ratio, Bronya and Silver Wolf who I pulled during Argenti's banner... Both systems are good in their own way, and I totally understand the FOMO on using a new character, so I understand why players don't like Genshin's system
Bro nah I have to wait a whole week to get the materials for my characters bruh n I gotta climb a whole mountain to get to a damn domain n I have like zero resin after doing allat n then getting the wrong artifact
Imma disagree with that Genshin is harder to build characters. With the amount of new characters star rail keeps giving out, the burn out comes much faster when it comes to building EACH NEW ONE. It doesn’t help that you need A LOT of ascencion materials. And you also need a lot of semi to full built characters if you want to keep up with the power creep Dont get me started with the amount of relics and RNG luck for star rail
Interesting take! I find that building a character is often the thing that gives me the motivation to even play the game, which is why I've loved Star Rail making and giving so many unique characters to build around. Currently soooo looking forward for Dr. Ratio as i realized that with Ruan Mei and Welt, and perhaps someone like Asta for extra speed, I might be able to make a comp that is sustainless, just barraging enemies with slow while i constantly speed up.
@@king_alloy I’m just comparing how I felt when I first started genshin (1.3/ 1.4) vs star rail (1.0). When I played genshin at the start, I could get away with just using my 4 characters for the whole gameplay (except abyss). I only started building other characters when I wanted to get serious with abyss and that was like maybe 5 patches after I started genshin With star rail, at the start I was already given a lot of characters to build. I couldn’t also just get away with only using just 4 characters cause if I did then it would take forever to kill story bosses. So I spend my trail blaze power on materials and relics for more characters than I ever had to do with genshin
@@king_alloy and oh! I don’t mind having to build characters, it does make a game fun… I just feel overwhelmed by the amount star rail has and then the power creeps that’s coming in I’m glad for the free Dr Ratio too but I’m dreading the building of him ngl hahaha xD (I’m still trying to build my argenti)
@@rikkuree @rikkuree ooh I got it! And yeah I can understand that sentiment, you do need quite a few more characters in HSR so yeah it could suck having to build all of em, I get that. I was super excited to have more Quantum DPS options with Xueyi but then realizing how I'd have to build her made me delay that haha. Good luck on your relics! Hope RNGesus goes your way a bit more!
@@king_alloybut doesn't it get tedious having materials locked behind bosses and time gated domains. Started Genshin in 4.2 and the amount of times where I needed a Material only to find out its only available on tuesday made me lose my mind. In HSR, I only focused on 4 units as well before tackling MoC. Welt, Tingyun, Natasha, Fire MC. That team made Belobog and Xianzhou a breeze. It was only after tackling MoC that I realized the need to diversify and build more units. Building my original team wasn't a priority till I wanted to tackle MoC. The Story gives you lots of materials to progress, they was no need to farm at all.
I don't count generosity by how many free characters you're given. If SR's gameplay needs more characters so the players are given out a 5-star for free, I can't call that more generous. Like other gachas, for example. If they give out even a dozen free SSRs but require a lot of dupes to ascend/level them up, then that's not generous. In Genshin, one copy is already a lot. Especially new Fontaine 5-star characters. It's a lie if you say that they're not powercreeps. One copy of Neuvillette, for example, and you can already flush most enemies down the toilet. A Furina can deal damage, heal, give buffs and indefinitely run on water. A Navia hits like a truck that it's easy to deal 200k damage in a single hit. That's a lot of value for one character. And if you do some maths on resin/energy caps, condensed resin included, in the end, they turn out to be the same value. I don't play SR but people say that its artifacts system needs even more farming than Genshin. Not to mention that you said it needs more characters than Genshin. Again, I can't call that being more generous.
Plus with the complexity of Genshin as a game, its 4-star characters tend to feel like the 5-star characters you find in other games. You're not just getting a PNG with the standard single target skill and all target skill with a slightly different debuff, you're getting a three dimensional unit with dynamic combat value including movement, positioning and timing, plus non-combat use cases such as exploration tools or puzzle solving tools, plus the basic fun of being able to run around with the character in an open world. The only downside with Genshin here is that a lot of the character designs are a bit lacklustre, if Genshin had the design quality of HSR, the 4-stars would feel like 6-stars.
people who call more free shit "generosity" are just addicts anyway lol it's literally the free food samples experiment. oh this place gave me more free samples than that one? must mean they care about me as a customer more. like no, they just want you to shop at their food establishment over the competition's LMAO and people really do fall for it every time. the perfect psychological bait.
@@yurisei6732 meh , hsr designs dont grab me all the time either so idk how true that is. both can be very hit or miss. Blade? awesome. Dan IL ? kinda mid. Kafka ? great. the 12736 luofu women sharing the same dress template ? i sleep.
People still don't understand how big genshin impact is. It literally plays in a diferent league even compared to Star Rail... For context, this is the opinion of someone who played over 15 gacha games in the past 10+ years and currently plays 6 at the same time, including most of the hoyoverse games. Gacha games are generous when they want you to stay. Genshin's success cannot be understated. The release in 2020 was both a blessing and a curse at the same time. It made the indie company a billion dollar corporation but at the same time, the palyerbase was higher than anyone could have predicted. And the crazy part is that they seem to have been growing steadily since the release based on average sales (not download numbers cause those would include rerolls). Once again, the size of Genshin's playerbase cannot be overstated: I will never forget watching the 2.0 livestream, seeing 200-300 thousand people on twitch, and then seeing a screenshot of the chinese stream on bilibili. They had 22 million live viewers(!!!). That made me realize that it is pointless to compare this game to FGO,Granblue,Epic Seven...etc. These games are literally unable to compete. Unless Genshin gets a competitor, someone who pulls the same numbers as them, you should not expect free stuff. Because there is no point in giving more than the bare minimum, since there is no risk of losing players to other competitors... This will not happen however, since we are already past the lockdown era. Even Mihoyo themselves tried and failed at replicating the "Genshin phenomena". You can see this in how Star Rail was trying to be a turn based Genshin game at the beginning (especially in CBT). You can feel how much Mihoyo was hoping to recreated the pandemic miracle. But after 6 monthhs, it is clear that Star Rail will have to be content with competing with FGO, Uma musume, NIKKE etc.. You can even see how in the last 2-3 month, Star Rail started to change and move away from Genshin in terms of design to fully carve out their own identity. I expect this year they will continue changing and implementing more of the traditional gacha stuff that Genshin players are not used to see.. All the while Genshin sits atop the competition alone...waiting for someone to give them a reason to be generous to their players...
This is just flat out incorrect. HSR's overall sales are in the same ballpark as Genshin's. It was actually easily outselling Genshin until the Topaz/Argenti/Huohuo trio arrived. It was easy to predict none of those characters were ever going to sell well before their banners even hit for various reasons. Currently, Ruan Mei is doing great sales and outselling every recent Genshin banner besides Furina.
@@TheHouseInFataMorganahuh? Do you have any proof for what youre saying because so far ruan mei seems like she'll do as much as the average new genshin character in terms of revenue.
I mean it is really all that bad that star rail is much smaller to genshin in comparison? I also don't think the devs didn't see this coming. Genshin might have the highest player numbers in the gacha genre but at least they could be more passionate in other games like Hi3, star rail, tears of themis and now zenless zone zero and keep maintaining their revenue on genshin to fund their passion projects.
@@lancertheimaginary8462 my guy acting as if genshin isnt a passion project, like bro, what game did hoyo put all their money at the time to make ? What game goes on to detail every single aspect of its open world and lore? If a little qol and freebies is all it takes for a game to be considered a passion project then stuff like azure lane is pure passion and obviously the better game.
Good analysis! As a Genshin only player, I have always been quite envious of HSR’s QOL and generosity. But this made me understand it better. Thank you 😊
So something important to note here is that between Star Rail and Genshin. Star Rail’s meta has been changing faster than Genshin’s. That and the high tier content like forgotten halls and Simulated Universe. The desire to have more characters to deal with the many different encounters. Star Rails meta is similar to their other game, Honkai’s. There are three main endgame activities for you to use your characters in. Memorial Arena, Elysian Realm, and Abyss with reaching Nirvana rank as your goal in Abyss. Each one requires you to have at least one one team or character that is either in the meta like Ruan Mei or deals an absurd amount of damage in just a few attacks like DHIL. Hoyo often throws free S-rank characters to the players that are still situationally good. Currently there is a event going on where you can get HoS for free. She’s a physical buffer that can be modified to be turned into a dps. She’s been outclassed by HoRb but she’s still a good alternative you don’t have the other. That seems to be what Hoyo is doing here
Or... You can just follow the rules of the stage and clear it with decent amount of afford without destroying your brain. For example the current endgame patch just want you to break their armor as fast as possible to do tons of damage. Just follow the rule of stage makes everything alot easier rather than pulling for latest unit or even meta damage unit
I made a no special pull account 3 months ago and completed moc 12 recently. Even if meta changes more frequently in HSR, it depends on you to improve the characters you have in a way they'll work their best in all settings. "Meta" is defined differently by every player. Some call it one-shoting the enemy and some call it having more fun.
I’m a day one Honkai star rail player who also played Genshin since day 1 of its release. I knew seele was meta at that time but I preferred to pull for characters that I liked such as design and animations, so I pulled for Jing Yuan. I soon came to realize how HSR folks cared about meta because many people talked bad about Jing Yuan and even though he wasn’t the worst dps but because he isn’t the best or comparable to seele, he was disliked. I soon lost all my 50/50 with the exception of luocha and silver wolf who were guaranteed. It was extremely hard for me to clear content unlike Genshin. I was severely punished for not pulling meta and having bad luck. The last straw was when I lost my 50/50 on blade banner. I was extremely frustrated because playing the game wasn’t fun anymore. I recently returned because they were giving out free dr ratio. I really liked Argenti but I really needed to pull for meta but Argenti’s dps was similar to Jing yuan but for some reason people didn’t sh#t on him. I pulled Ryan mei using my guaranteed but lost on blade banner again. I am unable to clear MOC 8 full stars with my lackluster dps and my only good sustain is luocha. I guess this is the final goodbye.
I get how you feel when a character you like isn't the best when it comes to clearing content. It really sucks when people slander you for using them (JY), but who cares anyway? I've been using JY as my main dps since the day I got him and he's been doing well. I also recently cleared the current MoC with JY in the second team and Clara in the first. It isn't required for you to clear MoC, but the extra jades are nice. Overall, playing with the characters you like simply means investing more time on them. Hopefully 'weaker' units stay relevant as the game goes on.
Sad to hear that brother. It's hard to play a game that punishes your over and over. But reading on what your characters are, you have a really solid roster. Im the same as you, I've lost 5 50/50's and only won my preferred 5 stars through guarantee. So far I can only clear MoC9, kinda having a hard time in MoC 10 due to a lack of strong physical coverage. I hope you find your game soon.
And that is precicely the reason why they are giving out free 5-stars, jades, and other freebies in a way that appears generous: to win back or retain people that left because of repetitive and hard content
You should try Genshin as a new player. Abyss is way harder than MOC as a completely new player, especially takes longer since Genshin characters take longer to grind for. You may have done Abyss back in 1.0 when it was easy but it is NOT easy right now for players only a few months in.
I also think it's because honkai start rail is much more profitable so they can focus more on giving us stuff because they don't need to make as much money to be profitable especially because it costs a lot less to make a game like star rail where you're interest exploring a handful of areas instead of like genshin which is an open world which takes a lot more money and time to develop
Saying that SR is more profitable is really iffy considering that for the most part SR sales don't hit nearly as high highs as Genshin and if the banners are not interesting to players they get fairly low numbers. Honestly i think answer for the better treatment for game is simple, competition. SR inherently has way more competition as a turn based strategy gacha as opposed to Genshin who stands uncontested as the king of open worlds gacha. Hoyo doesn't go out of their way to give many rewards to Genshin's players because they just don't need to. There is no alternative that is on the same level of Genshin so they also don't have nearly as much fear of players going away as they do with SR.
It might not be as generous on average, but I am currently satisfied. I have every 4-star character and I have the following 5-stars: Jean, Eula, Baizhu, Qiqi, Kazuha, Kokomi, Itto, Tighnari, Cyno, Nahida, and Dehya. Plus the story is still very good, the music is amazing, and the location design is breath-taking.
The: yea in honkai impact the hp are irelevant is amaizing. Like if you get hit in that game you should better just restart the stage, because your rotation was just destroyed.
It's so much easier to build star rail characters unlike Genshin :((, in Genshin it's a literal job to build one, in star rail it's a pleasure, rewards for pulling a character.
I think you missed one important factor. Genshin players will complain about the game but still whale on it where i feel like star rail players would just quit or somply not give hoyo any money if they were unhappy. And before the genshin simps attack me, yes i played genshin since day 1 but have since quit just because i didnt really feel like it respected me as a player, where i feel like star rail does respect my time as a player.
The contrary for me ngl, I got bored with hsr pretty quickly and no amount of free stuff is gonna make me stick around, while genshin being a casual game is perfect for me, idc about endgame, idc about qol and idc about free stuff as long as they keep releasing quality areas to explore and good story that's all that matters for me ( and probably the majority of the playerbase)
@spacebanana712 that's fine though..Not everyone will feel the same I feel the same about the genshin story,hence why I quit lol..the hsr story for me is way more interesting but not quite as good as honkai impact. We all have different tastes and that's fine!
@@MrDrainBramaged yessir, thanks for saying that, most people wouldve answered me with cope lol. I just hate when people glorify a game while also talking shit about the other without considering that maybe there are people who enjoy the aspects that you hate in the other game.
@spacebanana712 ah yeah there's no point in being toxic about it haha Everyone has different points of views and I know HSR wouldn't even exist without genshin,so there would be no point in shitting in it..I played genshin for like a year and a half or so,I came back for furina to pull on her banner but idk I feel like I'm too far behind to try to get into it again lol..Maybe someday
HSR is simply a more harsh game on the player. Genshin there is nothing to worry about outside abyss, the game's primary gameplay isnt even combat focused but exploration. So there is very little chance for a genshin player to feel like they are left behind, can't clear content and be overall just frustrated. As for characters you technically never need to pull more than 8 characters in genshin and many people are satisfied with focusing on the 1 unit they like the most. HSR on the other hand is combat only outside of the story missions. You need characters to do different content, play new teams and get some fresh air in. So new characters are pretty much required to keep the game fresh. Thats where the extra generosity comes in. If you get more resources and the occasional freebie but there is also still enough characters that you can't pull without spending then you string along a lot of players that will eventually pay. Its all about keeping satisfaction just high enough so that nobody quits but just low enough that you are always thinking about spending to get a better experience.
Anyone that plays a turn-based RPG can tell you that the market is very saturated which means that HSR has a lot of competition even with the clout that Hoyo carries. With turn-based rpgs, it then becomes a collecting game towards the end, and getting all the powerful pvp/pve units because what else are you going to do other than push for higher scores? And with turn-based games, you often need certain characters for certain roles. (I play stuff like dislyte & LOH etc, you can have some of the best healers/dps and they'd still fail a scenarios if you don't have a specific skills/debuff/buff combo niche filled) Genshin can be less generous because honestly, are there any real competitors to its specific niche of Open World Gacha RPG (that, on paper) is free to play with hundreds of hours of stuff to do (exploring, story quests, etc) that are more mechanically engaging than turn-based rpgs. Just being able to jump and climb mountains to find stuff is already more engaging (and exhausting) than setting up turns and combos then auto-ing imo. There's fun in both kinds of games, but they're really just vastly different from the get go.
It’s their head producer faults, star rail has the same as HI3 he is quite generous with what he gives, genshins(who used to be HI3’s when it’s rewards were rubbish) is very much just conserved about the money he can get, he has more power than dawei so it’s hard to get rid of him, that’s why genshin doesn’t get half decent rewards
As someone who plays both Genshin and HSR on a daily basis, I have to disagree on your take in HSR's character design. The combat in Genshin has elemental types, who interact with each other making reactions, with all sorts of effects. With this in mind, even if a character has awful abilities, low damage/healing/shield numbers etc, will see constant and widespread use, if these abilities can trigger reactions in a meaningful way. Take Kuki, for example, her damage is shit, her healing is shit, her whole kit is shit, but her skill can trigger the "hyperbloom" reaction in a way few other characters can, and even if she herself can't deal good damage, hyperbloom sure does. As a result Kuki is one of the most popular characters in Genshin. Meanwhile in HSR, the combat is all about weakness types, if your dps is of the same type of the enemy's weakness, thats IT, thats all you need. The other characters need only to give buffs/debuffs to help your dps damage, and heal the damage you take. There are no reactions, therefore the are no "meaningful" or "creative" ways the characters interact with each other beyond healing or shielding, buffing or debuffing. Their NUMBERS are all that matters, and when numbers are all that matters, BIGGER numbers will aways win over SMALLER numbers. With this mind, characters overlap and compete with each other far more than in Genshin. Kuki doesn't compete with every Electro character, because she "enables" a very powerful team, even if she is weak in a vacuum, compared to others. I use Kuki frequently, even if I got other "stronger" characters, like Raiden or Keqing. Meanwhile in HSR, NOBODY uses Bailu when they have Luocha, NOBODY uses Gepard when they have Fu Xuan, NOBODY uses Yanqing when they have Jingliu. There is no situation whatsoever where you would want a Imaginary DPS and you would use Welt instead of Dan Heng IL. Even characters who are considered "strong" today are on a ticking clock, considering how Hoyo is playing "fast and loose" with the numbers of new characters. Dont believe me? Look around HSR content creators, every new DPS is "the best dps", every new support is "the best support" and every new healer is "the best healer". Today the best support is Ruan Mei, but tomorrow? I have my doubts... **TLDR: There are many reasons why HSR is more generous than Genshin, and "character design" is NOT one of them**
my 2cents. I think they're giving out Ratio cause 1. he's not a good unit. 2. we don't have any free/starter imaginary damage units, and 3. No one is gonna roll on this guy with what just came before him and what's coming after him. He's kinda in the place of the first Yoimiya banner.
I think one of the reasons why Star Rail can give a free 5 star is its characters get powercrept more easily and faster compared to genshin characters. Especially Hunt units cause Destruction units can do both AoE and Single Target while Hunt is only single targeted. They can give Dr.Ratio for free cause he's going to be powercrept after penacony anyways. Like can you imagine genshin giving a free Ayaka? She came out in 2.0 and still she can destroy abyss if you can freeze enemies or give her more crit rate
That if you can freeze enemies is a huge catch though, Freeze has been pretty bad for a while. Fortunately, Ayaka and co can very easily be made good again, Mihoyo could just make a new cryo-related artifact set of some sort that doesn't depend so heavily on enemies being frozen. The big problem Ayaka has is that she loses 20CR against all bosses and many large enemies.
I never thought of it this way but it does make a lot of sense. It's still not an excuse for genshin, I'm not going back after the burnout but it's interesting to know that there is more to it.
I dropped Star Rail. In the end it felt like a Single Player game where i had to keep paying money, if i wanted to get every character and special card. No Coop Content like raids in Granblue Fantasy.
Star Rail is operating like a true gacha game. While Genshin is now heavily leaning on its open world RPG aspect. Those who played Genshin thinking it would be focused on combat now gravitate towards Star Rail, while those who enjoy lore and exploration enjoy Genshin. A lot of us play both still because you can enjoy both combat and lore. It is not surprising that star rail is giving plenty of free stuff because the gacha gamers expect that out of their game. And thats how they enjoy their game, new char with new skills, team optimization and all that. While missing out on a character in Genshin does not heavily diminish the enjoyment because you can explore the world and lore. Eitherway, hoyo ultimately wins cause now they have two games that cater to two different audiences who once crowded Genshin.
the honest truth is a majority of the genshin fan base is VERY HAPPY with the state of the game, it is evident from the comment u see from all of genshins socials that people are happy with the game, genshin to me is for people that love lore, stories with insane dialogue, easy to play mini games and are VERY casual meanwhile star rail has some elements but its more centered on being getting the player engage in its combat, it has story, lore, and the aeon lore is so good but it is not a game genshin players willl enjoy 100%.
@@mahiru20ten I assume it's because people like genshin for different reasons, like I would like for genshin to give us more free stuff, but I also kinda don't care enough to complain about it. Just keep making quality new areas with intresting characters and good quests and we good.
i love turn based games but gachas specifically are always the same bullshit work 9-5 running the game on autobattle for 95% of the time im on it and lack any of the actual nuance or fun mechanics that conventional turn based games would give me. so no, ima have to disagree on this personally lol hsr is more for people who want instant gratification than an actual game. (notice how much praise it receives for rewarding people for doing barely anything at all and autobattle? that isnt an accident lmao people are lazy and want as much dopamine for as little input as possible kind of like an addiction.) speaking of auto, why is the 2x speed the same as a normal jrpg speed ? it's so baffling lmao
the way i see it is that in genshin most content is just way easier and you can clear the game with whoever you want but in star rail the gameplay is harder and needs you to have multiple of each character type in order to comfortably clear content i have good builds and supports but not having a proper dps for every element is keeping me from clearing higher forgotten hall levels whereas i can clear every spiral abyss with the same nilou team and neuvilette team
I F2P'd both games, and I quit Genshin just before Inazuma, when that archipelago thing was happening that let you get summer outfits for Jean and Barbara. I was enjoying the game and all but it was sorta burning me out and I had other things to do IRL at the time so I just kinda took a break and never really got around to continuing. That said I can fully clear MOC in HSR, but in Genshin I really struggled at some abyss floor where you had to kill all the enemies before they killed some stationary tower or something. I forget. It's probable though that it was due to bad luck on my part getting a good 5* dps. I DID get Hu Tao, but she was only in one group, my 2nd group's top dps was keqing, who wasn't exactly high-tier back in those days. I didn't have the frost archer girl, or diluc, or mona, or xiao, or... I forget who other potential dpsers were. oh yeah, and I never got any effing sacrificial swords (I think that's what it was called, the 4* weapon that was best in slot for like nearly every sword-using support), and my other 5* standard was qiqi, and I got 2 5* weapons from standard, both of them the same effing CATALYST, FML. It wasn't hard per say survival-wise, but it just felt like a dps check that my account just couldn't do.
@@heacheysz5644 Dude is locked out of having proper dps-es cause of gacha and you interpret that as "actual strategy"? Man ya'll sometimes really make me feel ashamed of being in the gacha community.
@@altnova6643 There are leaks even before characters release you can look them up and plan on what characters to pull based on their overall value the kits can change but these changes are minor everybody knew Ruan Mei as the first limited 5 star harmony character was going to be OP and she is. Yeah it depends on luck and money but everyone knows that investment is a skill especially for F2P players who need to save currency and once you are done with two proper teams you are safe to pull for the characters and their lightcones based on your likeness for them also allowing more team compositions and the possibility to enjoy the other aspects of the game freely. And I never mentioned explicitly the Gacha System in the previous comment you can look this video "My QingQue broke Honkai: Star Rail..." by Zmm he is using a no wish account and did one of the hardest contents in the game it's a example that this game allows for strategy even using 4 star characters as a DPS so anyone with enough patience could do the latest SU mode with strategy from other people to get Stellar Jades while also clearing some stages in MoC, there's only one extra pull for doing stages 11 & 12 and people will get characters eventually to clear it I am a day one player and a dolphin with less than 100 dollars spent and I have 10 five star characters and I will have 11 with Dr. Ratio in 2nd part of 1.6 and probably 12 with the 5 star standart selector in 2.1 or anything else of equal value that they will give in the anniversary. It's funny how people ask for difficult content that isn't superficial they get it and then they complain about the difficulty there is a skill issue an example is the 2 cycle clear with Himeko done by Gacha Smack in a MoC 10 tournment he also used Jing Yuan spamming basic atk to get SP lol. If you don't like a genre don't play it you can't change reality to fit your desires and Gacha is profitable so it is how it is.
I mean that would have to do with how spiral abyss is just the same thing with more HP and a gimmick, I'm not saying they should make abyss harder, I'm saying that we should've gotten something else to do long ago. Today Genshin players either don't care about abyss or clear it with so little effort that it isn't even worth talking about, bad game design is what it is, when I started we were asked to kill literal ruin guards, the current abyss has elite enemies with more HP than a whole 1.1 floor combined, we are killing stuff with 5X the hp for the same rewards we got 3 years ago. But we don't want to generate anxiety they say... Anxiety my ass, they just are allergic to giving any kind of rewards, I'd be ok with some extra floors just for artifact XP but it's easier to fuck old and new players alike.
HSR is generous because it had to compete with quite many other turn-based gacha games. GI doesn't has that competitiveness. It's the only open world gacha game which isn't a low effort cashgrab (like Tower of Fantasy). At least it's what i think.
I don't understand everyone acting like the Genshin community is the villain when everywhere I go (especially UA-cam) you only see HSR players talking shit about Gesnhin without any provocation and making fun of anyone who likes the game
I've seen a lot of genshin player say that Dr ratio is gonna be bad or that hsr is a dying game and that's why they're giving him for free, which is a cope response to try make hsr players feel less happy about a free character and idk if your gonna try an argue that what they're saying isn't an attack or if you just genuinely haven't seen anything from genshin players but 🤷♂️
This guilty trip mentality has gotten on my nerves recently, and to be fair that isn’t not only from the Star Rail community but the whole gaming community as well. I guess it’s just internet mob mentality at this point.
@@dishysoapss I would be lying if I said that the Genshin community doesn't also have its percentage of toxic players, but the difference is quite big. Any video that comments on HSR you see that most of the comments are making fun of Genshin
@@Truck-kun11 yeh making fun of the game is fine, most of those people are criticising the game which is a good thing because theyre on your side, they want you guys to get more free stuff too, but i wont disagree that there are also people attacking the players directly but as you said there are toxic players in every community
I think another reason Starrail gives out free 10 pulls each patch is because acquiring gems is a lot more difficult when you don’t have much world exploration like in a game like Genshin. They probably know they can afford giving it out each patch because of that. I don’t play Hsr much anymore these days so I could be wrong :)
but the primos from the world exploration are limited, so at some point you can only farm them only from commisions, abyss and events if there are no quests available
@@Maja-se3hf you’re not wrong, but my point is star rail doesn’t even have the open world exploration in the first place. I’m not talking about late game primo farming, I’m talking about giving players an insensitive to continue playing my providing them with pulls. Start rail doesn’t have as many ways to get gems fast when you want to pull so giving them ten pulls isn’t as much as a sacrifice. I’ve been playing Genshin for 2 and a half years and Liyue still isn’t fully completed, the average player won’t run out so quickly
As both a genshin and a star rail player all i have to say is: Genshin is just a game with so much more potencial its just that the devs don't respect the playerbase as much as star rail. Nobody expected Dr. Ratio to be free not even leakers. It just shows that star rail devs are grateful and acknowloding of its fanbase whether it be solving QoL problems according to player feedback. Which genshin just does not do any of that and then goes "oh oh but the players will get anxiety" as the excuse. Genshin's community is quite disgusting in terms of players that think they are the vocal minority even though it seems they are quite the majority having this "Toxic positivity" environment just accepting anything the devs give so the feedback they get is "Everything is all good we are happy" . Shutting down and sending death threats to anyone who dares to speak up for a change in favor of the well-being of genshin.
Despite all the flaws Genshin have, not many games (definitly NO Gacha Games) comes close to the quality of Genshin. "Toxic positivity" is bad, agree. Toxic Negativity is cringe... just pathetic. Do I want a 5-star? Yes Please! Will I start being Toxic against Mihoyo ´cause I did'nt get a 5-star. Fuck No! THANKS Mihoyo for my Free 5* Ratio in HSR! Cheers!
The reality of the situation is that Star Rail is more canonical to the entire Honkai universe. Genshin's it's own thing, and has less importance despite more development which is another reason for the differences. You'll get 1 5-Star per Genshin update due to the fact that the entire world ends up getting an update. It's a truly open-world game with almost seamless transition from area to area, as where Star Rail works off of large areas. With them using assets and working with the copypasta treatment per cell (Area)? That leaves Hoyo with more time for character design, and cutscenes which i gotta admit; feels like Hoyo forgets their budget a lot with Star Rails visual aspects. But, Gotta say. If you don't play Star Rail? Don't feel too left out. Ratio just does damage and creates statues. His skill just gives 25% more of Ratio's own attack. I'd take a decent dendro 4-star in Genshin over Ratio.
People keep saying "you can pull whoever you want in genshin but in hsr you are forced to pull for certain characters" but honestly for me it's the opposite. I don't feel like pulling for hsr characters more because it's not like I can do anything with them outside combat. In genshin I would be tempted to pull because we can do so much like exploration, coop, etc. And yes, meta too just like hsr. Like why would I spend hours on abyss when I can do it in minutes with meta? Also it's not even been a year yet since the game was released so the options are limited. That's just how every game is in early stage The way genshin devs and hsr devs treat the fanbase is different because the games are different anyway. Hsr gameplay is a little limited compared to genshin so they are more generous with rewards and endgame contents. Genshin on the other hand knows no matter what people will still play the game and spend money even if their own anniversary reward is sheet lol. Maybe if there are more open world game competitors they would be more generous Sheet this is getting long so here's tldr: I do love genshin but hsr feels more rewarding 💀 It's like shifting from a toxic yet fun relationship into an average yet healthy one
The amount of primos we get from genshin is still far far more than what we get from hsr, the only problem is that u have to play the game more. On top of that, hsr severely lacks content when compared to a way bigger game like genshin, so naturally they have to adapt to stay relevant. The sole fact that genshin started earning more than hsr just when fontaine was in its full swing simple underpins the fact even after 3 years, genshin is still relevant and same as it was earlier. They tried to copy the archon quest as trailblaze missions but couldn't, the single straight story line, on top of it being one of the most interesting stories of gacha games, really proves the point. Im not disappointed in genshin, I mean free rewards would help but my only problem is the community! I haven't seen a more toxic Gacha game community than genshin's!
I think this is an experiment for hoyo. Games like HSR inevitably fall off because : 1. Progression becomes difficult/impossible unless you whale or have no life 2. Slowed pace of pulling resources lock f2p players out of the fun of pulling, and the lack of exciting pulling causes people to lose interest over time. Hoyo tries to solve this by continually ramping up the freebie generosity and keeping the main 'story mode' accessible to casual free players. This being the case, I predict the trend of even bigger and more shocking freebies will come in the future, though we might have to wait a while for the next big hit. I feel that they cannot keep this up forever and even if #1 and #2 are kept at bay, eventually people are going to lose interest for other reasons, but it will be interesting to see if this can be sustained for another 2 years.
theres probably internal data we don't know about that drives this "generosity." "free" in any gacha game is definitely driven by player retention concerns, profitability concerns, or both, and is a play toward maintaining revenue/MAU. an active player who spends a bit of money each month is worth more in the long run than the irregular player, even if they also spend. and as mentioned in the vid, gameplay matters a lot as well, with hsr being a game that requires four characters in the field of play at all times, unlike genshin, plus elemental weaknesses matter even more for clearing content even at story difficulty. a lot of content in genshin that isn't exploration can be brute forced by a few well built characters
We have player data, active monthly player data. Before the announcement of a free 5 star, star rail had lost 3.5 million players, and between the months of July to September lost almost 8.5 million players, this is compared to their peak population of 31 million, losing 1 third of your population is crippling specially when the game only released in May, 2 months before they 8.5 million player exodus Genshin on the other hand hasn't dropped from 60 million active monthly users for months and they stayed above 50 million since around first anniversary. Genshin has so many active monthly players that if it was a country it would be around the size of france and be the 23rd most populous country in the world. Genshin can choose not to care because they can tank the hit, Star Rail cant
Genshin is Open world rpg first with gacha element. You dont need to pull everytime to min max the game. While in hsr its a must to build a lot of character to keep up with the new content, Thats why the gacha in there is a must.
@@evilmiyoho6742 My point is that the gacha come second on genshin because the content doesnt force you to gacha your way thru the game. Thats why I call it open world rpg first, even people who dont know gensin only label it as BOTW copy because its open world rpg.
@@evilmiyoho6742it’s a owrpg game with a gacha system in it . They don’t market themselves as gacha, for obvious reasons but it’s definitely not its main genre, the game has a story you can follow without having to engage in any of the gacha stuff. Even the side stories.
The playerbase of this 2 game are made up of people who either got introduced to gacha games for the first time, or even to games in general and people who already played other gachas. The free 5* arguments mostly comes from the latter who are so familiar with the other gachas' cycle and way of doing things. Firstly one 5* from FGO does not worth the same as one 5* from genshin development wise and market wise. Its normal for gacha games which usually already starts off with 50+ characters, to give freebies like candies, by their third anni they would tend to already have almost 200+ characters so it makes sense why giving one free 5* (that usually get powercrept the very next month or two) for the sake of player "appreciation" is worth the hypothetical lost in banner sales. The cost of making one new 5*s in those games usually only involves the digital artist (literally JPEG) and some dev for the 2D models in game and most dominantly VAs. Whereas in genshin theres the slightly extra cost for 3D models, but most importantly kit balancing for both meta and open world reasons and their place in the world, taking into account cultures, relationship etc for the design philosophy. These extra things are minor in other gachas but very big in genshin as they would break immersion and continuity otherwise. It's easier to just sprinkle "this character worked in this shop" for a new character's flavor text if said shop never tangibly existed compared to if it does in game. And for the argument that HSR costs the same for new 5* characters, well to that I say, HSR is exactly the competition for these other gacha games that is relatively cheaper to make so its no wonder theyre doing the same thing as those other gachas, theyre direct competitions. Theyre an autoable turn based gacha games with less emphasis on exploration. Nobody played HSR specifically for its open world but its a nice bonus (just like how it is in Hi3), the real selling point of HSR is the convenience factor just like any other typical gacha games. The wise thing to do here is for other anime open world rpg gachas like Wuthering Waves and ToF to exploit this drama and give free new 5*s there. That would either be a shot in the foot or a brilliant marketing strat depending on the result.
This makes me think about honkai 3rd tbh, which has pretty insane availability in that every 4 star equivalent is made obtainable, and even some new 5 star equivalents, not just super old characters. Yet at the same time honkai 3rd has had power creep issues as far back as Herschel of Sentience outclassing Herrscher of void design wise. While it has been going on for a long time, it feels to me like there has been a struggle to fight that issue, making characters to fit specific niches even if they have to articially create that niche to do so (watch hp coagulation be completely forgotten)
I ain't going back to Star Rail even with a free unit. I am simply flabbergasted how poorly they handled the Luofu TB mission. Like, Genshin also had this problem in Inazuma but it was nowhere as bad as Luofu's TB mission, where an entire world quest was snuck into the main mission and the solution to fixing that is skipping the whole mission by making the player let go of 80 gems. And Tingyun died off screen. It doesn't matter if she comes back alive in the future or not, her death didn't happen on screen. The body we saw dislocating wasn't hers. That scene would have been so much better if Tingyun's body was found. On the gameplay's side, they are slowly starting to introduce must pull units to achieve optimal clears, just like they do in HI3. There's a reason why are being generous, because they don't want to drive away the players with the future game difficulty. Also, their direct competitor Reverse 1999 is doing a 40 pull Christmas+New Year special banner rn where you can pull for 3 bundles of standard 5 stars, out of which you can choose one 5 star unit. Turn based gacha games got hell of a more competition in the market, compared to a open world game like Genshin. I would love to see how Genshin devs would react when WuWa, Arknights Enfield and Project Mugen get their releases.
most likely they wont even react, unless they do something outrageous even by gacha game standards, because wuwa, at the very least, already seems to be shooting at the pgr players specifically (and pgr is not a competitor to genshin - its competitor to hi3) but also doesnt really look all that interesting, which as i understand is just the problem that dev in particular just has, arknights at... well, arknights, and mugen looks like really weird spiderman game, not to mention that all of them are post-apo or urban setting, which is what TOF was trying to do.... and failed miserably at. so other 3 most likely just gonna have their own kind of niche, with wuwa being more for hardcore players, arknights being for the fans of that game and mugen... idefk what the hell they are trying to do with mugen, tbh.
genshin is, for the most part, an open world game. the required combat is rare and also can be made easier if needed. characters fill a completely different role. rather than being a tool in your toolbox like in star rail, theyre more like different toys to play with. genshin also, just has vastly more content (even if we're comparing early genshin to current star rail), that hinges much less on the characters you have. it often feels completely alien to the gacha genre because of how little it can care about you getting new characters, and i think thats really refreshing.
@@jakkubusbut it has a lot of world building, lore, story and more large scale exploration which I prefer over End game content. I will also add that I think GI are for people who like World building, story , exploration, relaxed game and meant to be a more casual game than HSR. I tried HSR but it was too much combat and besides that there is nothing much I can do with limited exploration and alor of story is locked behind hard core combat which I am not a fan of. This lead me to eventually drop the game since I am not a fan of games that are combat oriented and require specific. Characters to proceed. That is one of the main reasons I had a strong distaste of combat oriented gaming and gaming in general until I found GI which is more world building/exploration /story oriented. And combat is a minor thing which I am okay with.
@@nicolasmonty3692 Early Genshin had pretty generic worldbuilding and rather mediocre story tho. And the exploration aspect was quite unpolished as well back then.
@@jakkubus true the story generic world building but it is interesting to see how the game producer may introduce besides that the design is quite good but the lore brhind/ in the World building is quite interesting to me. The story is medicore at best currently but I had read Medicare stories before but it ended up being very unique and different style that made it good near tge end or pays off. So because of that I am just curious what the producer will do next in the lore/world building, narrative and exploration . So far GI is meeting 3 major components I look for in a game (lore/world building, {includes character aspects) and until most of these criteria fails my expectations I am sticking to the game but one thing that had ocassionly failed is. The character Story Quests which had been leaving a little dissatisfied but is still not enough to drop the game since other aspects that is still fun , good and enjoyable for me to play.
@@nicolasmonty3692 Sure, but that's irrelevant to the point at hand. The original commenter stated that Genshin has vastly more content, which is simply not true if we look at the 1.X versions of both games.
Genshin could and arguably should get more generous in general. The amount of rewards you're able to obtain from all the various events and gamemodes in HSR, plus a 10 pull every version is simply unmatched and makes it feel fun and rewarding to play. Even after pulling for a character and getting it with 'normal' luck and pity, I'm able to rake up enough for the next character before the new version. Genshin is slowly but steadily bringing frustration with almost no special rewards and events often total a laughable amount of primos. I understand that the focus and audiences of each game are different, but I'd argue that you're less likely to spend money when you know that even with money spent and considerable effort exerted, you still won't have enough resources to get what you want.
do people actually complain about the lack of free rewards genshin players get? id much rather take the extra content which itakes the form of exploration in genshin as a way of earning primos instead of just logging in and receive a free pull just because theres not many ways of getting currency in a semi open world game.
HSR expects you to take damage. You can be the greatest HSR player in the world but you cannot outrun damage. GI is different. Even with free characters you can still go all the way to Liyue, Inazuma, Sumeru, Fontaine no damage taken (if you try hard enough). That's the biggest thing with both games. The developer mentality is different for both.
Thank you for this video! I can now just link this to others. HSR is more generous when it comes to units because we need the units for coverage. Meanwhile Genshin can be played even with anyone you like barring Spiral Abyss. The same cannot be said with QoL updates tho.
even spiral abyss, depending on the blessing, can be done with 4* units - nay, even on low AR with low leveled characters. not so much with moc because hsr just demands a lot more as for qol - much easier to add to an empty plate, than to a full one, especially since genshin is a first game of such scope on mobile.
@@SorarikoMotone 4.3 was a QoL patch that added quite a bit. As you said, it is harder to add QoL to an established game over one that was developed using feedback from their previous game. Also, Genshin has been getting QoL. I know they will add more so I'm not going to mald over it. If QoL is the only thing someone needs to trash another game, maybe they didn't like it in the first place, or are just fishing for drama.
@@SorarikoMotone we clearly can't know for sure if it's hard to put better QoL in Genshin, but for what we've already seen they are able to rework their systems for a better QoL. So they CAN but for the longest time they didn't do it, all those filler patch can be added a QoL one or two.
@@pistonfry Assuming the team has always been on full productivity, adding one feature necessarily means that something else won't be (other than probably toggle-able features like Overflowing Mastery). Maybe they only managed to hire more people earlier this year after all the Covid nonsense? Or finally expanded a new office in another province, so finally could expand the team with new hires. My previous company had these problems working during Covid, so we had to constantly cut/delay a lot of planned features from development. And even if we hire new staff, usually it'll be 3~6 months before they're actually capable of creating something in line with the product vision without supervision, and therefore be an additional contribution to the company. My point is, there are many possible logistical reasons that is not "Hoyo is stingy" or "Hoyo hates Genshin Impact". In the end though, the situation is what it is. So I feel the simplest way is to not assign these labels, and play the game if you enjoy it. Thinking about "what could have been" is detrimental to our enjoyment because we create expectations that are already failed.
i also agree in that genshin has a 3rd dimensionality to it, not like star rail. i mean, a character can possibly be not limited to their kit design (e.g. thundering fury razor team etc.) compared to star rail that has strict 'type matchups' in a way (some characters like xueyi breaks this mold but i digress) its like pokemon, you'd WANT to build a team thats all around and can cover each others weaknesses. also, sometimes i feel like dr ratio being given was gonna happen regardless if they won or not (like, for reasons of being nominated even)
I don't understand why people are so obsessed with comparing Genshin and HSR. They are COMPLETELY different games. The only point they have in common is their gacha. But this is ridiculous: are you seriously going to play completely different game, only for its gacha? Dude, that's one serious issue with gambling, lemme tell ya.
In short it's because it's the same company that made HI3, GI, and HSR. And out of the 3, GI is _without a doubt_ the least generous, and the one that has the least QoL and listens to the least player feedback. What people are truly saying is this: "we know you can do better. We've seen it. Now, please, improve Genshin!" That's it. Some are more toxic, some less, some may want to go back and play GI, some don't, but they'd all want it to BE BETTER. Because it could. If only the GI team wanted it to.
@@djixi98 I certainly have some improvements in my mind they can do to Genshin (and part of these are already done), but I also understand why they are not as active with Genshin than other titles. There are two reasons I can point out right away (possibly there are more, but these two are most obvious). 1) If you look at HSR as game developer, you'll see that ultimately, this game is really simple, programming-wise. Same goes for HI, to less extent, but still. Genshin is a lot more complex game, and thus, more work required to improve the same aspect of the game. 2) Genshin has great retention and re-play value. It offers a lot more gameplay, as compared to other Hoyo games. And it require a lot more work with its assets and events. So at some point, improving the UI just drops to the bottom of the list of all things they need to get done by the next patch. And giving more rewards is simply not required. I always see too generous rewards as a sign the game simply does not live up to the players expectations, so the devs resort to give freebies to attract people. Remember: it does not cost anything to give you any amount of pulls or in-game items. So I much prefer them working on new regions and game mechanics, than simply giving out a free 5-star I don't know what to do with.
One thing is that hsr is more based of chinese gacha games, I used to play them on my dad's computer. The chinese games aim to grind out characters, thus making more money due to human nature "needing" everything. Furthermore, hsr is like a high reward game, these "rewards" makes you want to play more just for the high rewards. However, genshin I believe is more like a classy gacha game, with less characters, less rewards, more grinding and money spent. Ultimately the difference for genshin and HSR is the audience they cater to. (thank you for listening to my yapping session)
Personally I think one (of probably several) reasons why Genshin is less generous is because it has a far larger emphasis of exploration due to its open world nature. Exploration is even encouraged by the fact that Primos and levelling materials can be found that way (even if it is small amounts). Star Rail’s map design is very limited in comparison and I find that fights are harder to avoid and as a consequence of fighting more the devs probably figure that a greater emphasis on the characters is needed both to have players not get bored so easily and to give players more options as new enemies are put into the game.
On the other hand surprisingly few characters have exploration-oriented abilities in their kits and most of them is pretty underwhelming in that regard. Additionally, Hoyo seems to be ramping up on locking more and more areas behind quests and, if that wasn't enough, the only endgame is strictly a combat challenge.
Sure buddy everyone has the time to explore for hours and hours to get primogems everybody loves to look up interactive maps, exploring and doing similar puzzles countless times
@@heacheysz5644 Don't get me wrong, I completely agree with you. I have been playing Genshin for almost two years on an almost daily basis and I still have a lot of stuff that has been on the backlog in Inazuma and Sumeru. Would I have designed the game that way if I was in charge? No. But from what I have seen I'd say that was probably the rationale from the devs perspective.
@@ucmanhle9601 They don't really reduce it that much. The locked areas are just far less in-your-face than in Sumeru. Hoyo has just hidden them better.
Another factor is that the 'weapon banner' isn't as terrible in Star rail. 75% chance for the signiture 'weapon' may actually increase spending.
You forgot, for the ONLY signature weapon, there is no double banner garbage.
Idk bout that, still feels like 50:50 to me, i keep losing on LC banner
@@bayuyasutora7539 At least you're not spending 240 tickets for a weapon 😂
@@fuumaruu7486but then again Genshin players “rarely” get a weapon as an effect. Star Rail on the other hand “temps” players to try and pull every single character banner. 😂
@@banir3736yeah, because we’re given the currency to attempt so. Vs genshin where filler patches give in the low 50’s for pulls
Think about the Genshin players that still miss their dream standard 5* character after 3 years of dedication. 💀
UPDATE: YOU CAN NOW PICK A 5-STAR FOR FREE DURING THIS UPDATE(5.0)! And around the same time each year you will be able to pick 1 standard for free again!
Who is? After 3 years I own Everyone I need/wants. Cheers!
TIGHNARI AND QIQI. THEY WON'T COME HOME 😭
@@fidelmendez8404 Literally bellow you there's someone who doesn't have tighnari/qiqi...
I've been Playing since day one, the one character that I want is Jean
I still don't have her.
I only have lost my 50/50 to 3 of the standard banner 5 star and in total I only have 4 standard banner 5 star characters
If you happen to follow l/eaks, you probably will know that ratio will have more synergy with upcoming units (a lot of new characters have debuffs in their kit while they are not all nihility). Giving a free character who requires debuffs with future characters having this mechanics also suggests for more pulls. I think Hoyo are playing 4D chess here.
hes also REALLY good with the new relic set thats coming out in 2.0 and he's overall just a really good unit unlike aloy.
Also, him being free has converted some skippers into pulling for his lc because they’re getting him anyways. Hoyo is being big brain
"more synergy with upcoming units" sorry but this is just wrong because he already has great synergy with old units, in fact his best support/sub-dps is Topaz since her proof of debt is counted as debuff and her passive increases his follow up damage.
@@CurseOxuin"more synergy" doesn't mean "no synergy" friend 😅
@kilonoviaa She/he said *MORE* synergy with new units my guy. that's why it's wrong, because his best synergy is already in the game right now.
I dont think the problem with the Genshin 1st anniversary is not having a free 5 star. The problem is they only gave away 10 pulls initially! Genshin is the only gacha game that i played that did that.
And it wasn't fully "gave away" but behind a social media requirement for it to be earned.
Correct, being the only gacha game that only give out 10 pull for an anniversary meanwhile other gachas are doing 3x more than that is what pissed people off
The problem with anniversary was that it was a downgraded lantern rite.
One of the reasons why I don't play gacha games anymore. Dangerous temptation and kinda feels not worth it.. Please don't roast me, just wanna share an opinion. But I really like the character design and lores from Genshin Impact and Honkai Star Rail
I've been a fan of Mihoyo since HI3rd launch, and one of the things that made me love them were how generous they were with everything during HI3rd... going from that to Genshin was pretty shocking. HSR feels more true to their original form IMO.
That said I still feel like Genshin was an overall good just because while HI3rd was good, Genshin blew up in popularity, and kinda announced to the world that it was time to stop making low effort dung-quality games for mobile. I think it basically made all the mobile game devs step up their game somewhat.
There is also the fact that Honkai Impact 3rd also gives a free 5* during Anniversary so Geshin players expecting a 5* wasn't that outlandish. That is why Dr. Ratio was a big shock since people thought they were only going to continue that tradition with Honkai impact and their future games won't have free 5*s. What would be hilarious if we get that in ZZZ and Genshin is just their only title that doesn't get a free 5* character (not counting Alloy)
Honkai is giving away plenty of pulls and a free 5* on the second day for new players while getting free stuff from genshin is like pulling teeth.
Well we call it S class Valkyrie in HI3, but yes it is equal to 5 star character but to be fair most of S class Valkyrie that are given most likely old S class Valkyrie which some of them is power crepted by newer valkryie even some of older OP valkryie now are grindable to get because it get power crepted. For crystal I can't say they give a lot since 10 pulls in HI3 is equal to 2800 instead of 1600, so in the end it's pretty much the same even when I first time hop into genshin I think genshin are little bit more generous on the primogems, why? Because unlike genshin that you can make your character OP without pulling weapon, in HI3 the gap for pulling only character without their respective weapon and stigma are quite big because in HI3 there are no artifact system and most likely the stats and passive from stigma are the one that affecting character builds. (Sorry for the long comment, I am HI3 player since it come out and sometimes I have complain for HI3 too)
@@kuskusdikus6014HI3 gives out like 2-3 S-rank every year on average iirc. There's always one on the anniversary and one during Chinese new year and then they'll also usually give another one out for some event.
@@triopsate3 Thats good to know, I only atarted playing it yesterday.
The generosity with Hi3 can’t really be compared to Genshin, because most of the valkeries Hi3 gives are pretty power crept. In Hi3, if you don’t have the charater’s signature weapon and stigma, your often pretty weak. Genshin, even without the signature weapon, you can make a character good. Also Hi3 requires 2800 crystals for a 10 pull
1 of the things I wish they add to genshin is the reserved Trailblaze power. If I hit cap on resin every 18 minutes after should give me reserved resin up to 2400 reserved resin. I took a break from honkai and coming back to find I had a stock pool of trailblaze power really made it easy to get my character back on track. You dont really get punished for taking breaks even past events I could go back and do. The only real fomo is characters.
They do reruns of missed characters quite soon after they've gone too so even that FOMO isn't that bad imo
Yeahh, I wish they add reserved trailblaze power, but even then it drains very quickly. Not that I'm complaining I just hope hoyo adds something like this in genshin
So real.
@EulaLover1400 It helps returning players stay. If it wasn't for that overflowing power that build up. I would have logged in saw how behind I was and just dropped the game again.
genuinely. i don’t have the ability to do some farming consistently over multiple days. i have time 1 day every now and then so i have to like,, cram-farm. which works well with hsr but the amount of unbuilt characters i have in genshin is just sad :/
This is basically what I was saying earlier, Hoyo has specific audiences in mind with each of their games and gives the player what they need to fully engage with that game. Is it equal on a one to one basis, no but it is equitable. Also SR copies a lot of mechanics from its older sibling HI3, which more of the Genshin community needs to play in order to understand just how utterly crazy the whole game mechanics could be in Genshin and SR. Imagine having to use daily resin to do the Archon Quests.
To be fair honkai impact gives a huge amount of “fragile resin”
@@Ai-j7 It really doesn't amount to that much if you are also trying to farm. If you're new and eager to play the story it runs out very fast. First few days playing after unlocking farming I didn't realize this. I would farm first because that's what you do in Genshin and SR and realized I needed stamina to actually play the story (you also get less stamina in the beginning?!?!). Genshin does has level caps but honestly I explored so much that that was never an issue. I'd rather have 160 resin a day than the 220 stamina I had to use for the most recent HI3 chapter I played through (because who plays half a chapter per sit through?!?!)
"imagine having to use resin to do Archon Quest" I'm having Tears of Themis (another Hoyoverse game) flashbacks, since their main story require using stamina to unlock.
sheesh dont remind me of that... im still at the roughly middle point of part 1 in hi3rd... stamina drain SO FAST at the story missions. being able to do the archon quests in a non-stop marathon is a blessing.
i can basically farm some materials and do like 3 stages in honkai impact before im out of stamina, its insane.
see this is only "half true", earlier Honkai 3rd chapters are stamina expensive yes because it was just that era of gacha games etc. since "A Shooting Star Streaking Across the Night" which covers the Arc City chapters, it started getting cheaper then "Thus Spoke Apocalypse", "To The Flawless" and "The Day Transcending Finality" didn't cost anything while also being loooooooong.
The issue isn't so much that Stamina is too low as much as it is they didn't account for people starting 2-3years+ after the fact and trying to catch up. Sure they could probably go back and change it but older stages are also tied to farming frags for older battlesuits etc.
Basically since star rail is an a turn-based rph, team building is a primary aspect of its appeal and gameplay, so they need to make sure people have the ability to fill party roles in multiple ways so that they don't get bored.
For example, it was driving me nuts for a while that Natash was my only healer and ended up in almost every time I built until I finally pulled Huohuo
im so happy for ratio because my only imag unit is yukong and i really dont want to build her lmao
That makes no sense this applies to genshin too.
That is completely irrelevant, Genshin requires you to have certain elements too against certain enemies and they still have yet to even give their players at least a free standard 5 star after 3 whole years. The fact is that SR just has a better management team period.
@@ItachiflameamaterasuGenshin has way more leeway as far as story is concerned. Meanwhile, there is much less wiggle in HSR (see also: My recent vid on Phantylia)
@@EulaLover1400 Star rail is still a really new game, I'm sure itll have genshin level variety in teams later on
i feel like the power 5 (xiangling xingqiu bennett fischl sucrose) have permanently affected genshin’s characters lmfao
Is Sucrose still meta? I stopped playing a couple years ago, and she had been largely power crept by Venti and Kazuha.
is it bad, tho? like, sure, we have only some characters that are truly strong out of 5* in genshin, but imo - good lore, good character interactions and ability to do all content with characters you truly love wins against powercreep that is happening in hsr, especially with how shallow at some points the story been in there as well, and the game just started.
@@watchwood I think venti, kazuha, and sucrose are just similar characters that have better performance in certain strats, sucrose is better for teams that would like the EM buff, kazuha for teams where elemental damage bonus is better, and venti to decimate ventiable enemies. In their general role as VV holders they're pretty much interchangeable. As long as kazuha is meta sucrose is meta in my opinion (I have both of them)
@@watchwoodventi is the character that does not help you to clear faster, he helps you to deal with the content you already clear with less effort.
Sucrose and kazuha are similar in value and in a lot of teams sucrose is better, than him
@@watchwood sucrose and kazuha are around the same, with them just having different strengths and weaknesses but they end up to be around the same level
There is a big factor that often missed here, Competition.
Genshin came into a game genre that doesnt really exist and carved its own way. Nobody knew this game going to be this succesful.
However star rail came into land already conquered. There is some games already here that shows strong presence and they gave some good/bad examples for Hoyo. They have to be generous from the start to pull some attention. And keep the ball rolling they have been both generous and cautios. Like they keep adding stuff to weekly content permanently.
genshin is definetly not the first gacha game to exist or be popular
@@huejanus1333 he meant a gatcha open world game
@@huejanus1333 Genshin is a pioneer for Open World Gacha ARPG. Star Rail exists alongside a sea of turn based gacha rpg, with exploration over a semi openworld area being the unique thing that sets it apart from the rest
@@huejanus1333its the first game of its kind. High end open world anime gacha game. All platforms except switch. Its mobile. Its actually a quality game.
Switch players waiting their tenth year to finally get that game: @@Waffle-dog
Taking the words right out of my mouth.
I will add that not having the characters you need feels a lot worse in HSR compared to Genshin, even if we're just talking about the overworld and events and not MoC or Spiral Abyss. Like, in Genshin I have a severe lack of Cryo DPS units (by virtue of skipping every 5* limited Cryo character except Eula who is an honorary Cryo), and yet Genshin's gameplay design does not heavily punish me for not having a Cryo DPS since there's still other ways to utilize the reactions that Cryo is good for. Meanwhile, you really feel it when you're lacking a DPS for one element in Star Rail (eg. not having Argenti against Physical-weak enemies like... Argenti). Sure you can finagle your way around it but you're not going to be breaking enemies with Sushang or Luka like you do with Argenti. There is a very distinct difference.
Same applies to not having a good assortment of characters. I have an alt on both Genshin and HSR and I quit my HSR alt a lot faster compared to Genshin where I still at least do the events even when I'm not farming for anything, because not having a high tier DPS or a high tier sustain on HSR legitimately makes the game feel a lot worse. Like dang, I can't beat this boss, guess I'll have to wait for a banner with a great DPS before I could do something. Oh wait, I'm getting pummeled by this boss and my DPS can't do anything when they're fucking dead, guess I'll have to wait for a banner with a great sustain first. Yes, 4* characters exist but the 5* characters are just on a different tier.
Sure there are people who would argue that you can totally clear everything on a no-wish account, but realistically a casual player ain't going to clear MoC with stuff like E0 Dan Heng. They could, but the challenge is not going to be fun for them at all.
ayup, thats how gacha turn-based rpg's operate, frankly, in comparison to genshin. genshin relies mostly on your skill - hsr (and other such games) relies on your wallet and how much you can afford grinding while game actively will bar you from grinding. which, as you could imagine - isnt really fun or good game design, yet people wank on it being superior and dunk on genshin for not doing the same hoops and sticks up the players arses, because god forbid players want to have a good time in a game, instead of earning hemorrhoids'.
@@SorarikoMotoneI disagree with HSR taking less skill. While I prefer genshin's combat due to the elemental reactions and giving me more freedom of movement allowing me to avoid enemy hits. Turn based combat still involves lots of strategizing and learning the mechanics of the game, the enemies and the characters.
I do agree that it's stupid how often some people declare HSR objectively better in every aspect even though everything excluding QoL and Generosity is typically based on personal opinion. I also hate how many HSR players constantly shit on genshin players for hardcore defending their game even though they often ignore the issues with the relic system and other aspects that still need work because "at least it's better than genshin" and thus doesn't need any changes
@SorarikoMotone In Razor terms, Genshin= Hand/eye skill
HSR = brain
@@I.disagree hsr is horrible compared to other TB games
Even 30 years ago we had better mechanics
And hoyo can’t have it both ways
Either they increase the number of abilities and options during battle or the game will slowly but surely devolve into a grinding powercreep filled void without any real gameplay other than story (which is bad after the catastrophe that was the Xianzhou)
I would love for them to actually do something about the turn based cuz now it’s literally just press skill or NA depending on how many Skill points you have and burst every time it’s available
For now it’s just not good enough for me
I need depth with my turn based 😔
@@I.disagree 100% agree.
Honestly, Genshin isn’t greedy, just straight stingy
Blame Cai Haoyu.
They're greedy and stingy
@@shrimp.thursday agreed. Just look at the price of their skins. That's pure greed.
@@SasukeTheCursed COUGH * 500 dollar ahri skin* COUGH
@@LongNguyen-uv8nn moving goalposts 🙄
As someone that plays both games, it sometimes feels frustrating to see HSR winning the QoL battle almost immediately over Genshin when the expectation is that it should be the other way around. They took everything players wanted in Genshin and then implemented it into Star Rail. No disrespect to the devs who are making Genshin, but it's not really surprising these comparisons are being made when QoL has been a problem for a while now (and endgame). It's not anything new when players complain about stuff that never gets implemented. The only difference now is that there is a game made by the same developer that's making those same things they've been wanting in a different game, and that's driving the feedback and likely the whole "Genshin could never." sentiment (And no you can not use some other thing like Genshin's scenery or worldbuilding or whatnot as a rebuttal to how Genshin's developers are better because you're just deflecting the issue at hand).
Giving out Dr. Ratio is pretty much a win-win for Star Rail anyway, especially in terms of marketing. Giving out something that's supposed to be rare for free will always generate a lot of buzz and that's precisely what happened with Dr. Ratio. It started the ball rolling again on how Star Rail is being more generous to its players (and what became the base for the video). What's funny about it is that this came just after Genshin released a new round of QoL updates which all things considered are pretty good, then Star Rail swoops in a week later and steals the spotlight.
Not the same developer, but rather same company. Different dev teams, that's the issue. I miss liking genshin... it was so much fun back when I was enjoying it. And I was REALLY enjoying it. It was a magical experience. Now I have memories and awesome playlists 😅
hsr isnt "winning" tho. its much easier to add to an empty plate than to a full one, not to mention that hsr literally has dozens upon dozens of competitors, some of which actually do a better job at qol and marketing as well (hello r:1999). nor is ratio is that much of a win, especially since the game, even outside of endgame, asks for aoe dps more, so for how long he will be useful - only time knows.
You are a clown keep on crying and enjoying 160 resin
It’s not the same devs… Honkai is Honkai.. (I think it’s closer to hi3 devs not genshin lol)
HSR isn't really "winning". Everything that was added to Genshin after HSR's release was done better than HSR. It only wins in rewards department which... Yeah, Genshin can get away with giving out less
the man, the legend is back from his slumber
It is funny how most of the things you said are exactly the things I talked about with a friend.
But I would also like to add a (hot) take from myself about this whole topic. I strongly believe that the core gameplay of each game is something we need to consider more in such discussions. As you somewhat stated it is needed in HSR to have multiple characters of the same role, only to clear specific content, where you are able to "solo" most of the content in Genshin. This is only possible because genshin is an action rpg and not turn based - so there is more to consider when designing a character OR even giving out freebies.
For the record: I would also like to get more freebies in Genshin.
But to be honest there is something I would like to see even more than freebies in Genshin: just getting more damn primos in generell. Sometimes it feels like a chore to grind for this damn things, where in other gacha the equivalent comes much more naturally, while you play.
Supporting this: While solo is possible, it is very painful because genshin team comps benefit from either reactions or in the case of anemo/geo looping with the most buffs possible, but I see the point and it still is understandable. The problem with core gameplay is that because effective damage in genshin is so closely tied to reactions, most people don't diversify even if there are more characters in the same role (the only exception I can think of with this is yelan and xingqiu where they are treated like an extra copy of the other and can be used in the second half team for abyss).
More proof that these are games played completely differently: fu xuan and dehya... their kits are very similar yet dehya is seen as a 5* dud while fu xuan is broken. Though this isn't only an issue with core gameplay it's also diversity: compare to SR where as long as you can kill it with auto, any team should work (oversimplifying). This can be solved with freebies too, currently genshin alternates with their free 4* with either a character or a weapon. Characters from 1.0 should be excluded since the shop hasn't changed in 3 years, but aside from that I think genshin should focus more on their 4* cast and make them idk good? Sara and Faruzan can't realistically be used unless they are C6 which is a tall order for someone who doesn't pull because they fell for drip marketing, leaks, or simply not liking the rate up 5*. I think just giving more 4*, even if someone won't use them until C6, will be more effective than an event weapon that'll be forgotten until someone uses it to gauge how old an account is like it's carbon dating. This is likely the reason why people enjoy Lantern Rite so much, players are given their choice to pick from a (liyue) 4* they either don't have or one they desperately need constellations for.
because mechanics tied around these chars are not very synergistic ... you really dont want a barbra as your hydro applyer for your yanfei ... will it work YES ... will it feel like shit ALSO YES@@Silver-Arrow
Exactly this. I've been getting multiple 5*s in HSR left and right meanwhile I'm barely getting my favourite characters in Genshin because of the amount of primos they're giving per patch...
less map chests and chests giving more primos would be a way to go.
Otherwise just making the map worth exploring by making the primos in quests, and the quests go all over the map. But searching for hidden chests is extremely fucking annoying because in other games, this bitches give you high tier equipment, in genshin they give you 1/10 of a fucken roll.
@@Silver-Arrow speaking about giving more free 4* characters, they're finally giving us a free Gorou instead of a Bennett or Xingqiu for once (our first free geo character not on the lantern rite choice pool)
more vids soon (for real this time)
W
Return of the king
Yippie!!
and Scara cos :D
I think one of the major issues these days is gaming mentality. There are more people now with the mentality of "If I hate it then the developers should be ashamed for not making it the way I like it and everyone else who like it are idiots" and less " ok so I do not like it. I will just move on and play something I like and let people who like it just enjoy it instead" mind set.
I have played Mihoyo games since Honkai impact 3rd before Genshin Impact release sky rocketed Mihoyo's fame to more larger public eyes. I enjoy all 3 games for different reasons. However, I feel the conflict between the different games made by the same company is rather pointless when each game is made for different type of themes and experience.
Perfectly said
You don't like what I like? Well I don't like what you like!
We're enemies now.
- Shen Zu,
The Art of War,
5th Century BC
finally someone who gets it
That, and general entitlement for free things. It'd be like expecting a music artist to give out free albums because they won a Grammy or an Oscar-winning actor/actress giving our free tickets to his/her next film because he/she won an Oscar.
The only community that has this entitled mentality is the modern gaming community, and I have noticed it has started because of casuals/people who don't typically game. Like the first anniversary thing was so petty, and especially ridiculous/laughable were the people who seriously thought cookie run was going to overtake Genshin/were telling people to play it instead, despite it being a completely different game/boring as fuck, just because their rewards were free lol.
Yeah it's nice to get free stuff, but you're not entitled to it. HSR despite the hubbub around its launch has greatly struggled to maintain player attention and it is pretty much a dead game at this point, despite riding on Genshin's coattails in being the first game released right after it. Honkai just doesn't have that much of an interesting story, the characters are bland, and generally the style of the game isn't as appealing as Genshin's. They have great graphics, but that's about it, and a nice-looking game isn't worth very much if there's no content/story. Yes, it won best upcoming game, but it had some Hello Kitty Island game as its competition, come on lmao.
Genshin won best ongoing game, which is a lot harder to do, especially being the pioneer re: Hoyoverse having an international presence. HI3 has a very dedicated fan base, but it's pretty small becaus that game just isn't as appealing (it's made for men who like yuri, HSR has tried to diversify by actually including male characters, but their designs aren't as good as Genshin husbandos, sorry.)
If Dr. Ratio were in Genshin, he'd be extremely mid compared to Chad designs like Dottore and Zhongli. He's not ugly or anything but he's also not incredibly hot, he's just a generically handsome anime guy.
True
I personally think that Genshin is/was tanking the cost for HSR in terms of the generous freebies, now that its getting more revenue...i cope that genshin considers giving a little bit more...i can totally see genshin totally dropping real hard if HSR keeps on giving more freebie and genshin keeps on asking for more money, genshin players are absolutely crazy that google classroom incident even happen when it shouldnt have
HSR is moving at lightspeed in both good and bad aspects, they made a killing job with some banners but they also dropped really hard compared to how long it took Genshin to get low banner sales, the google classroom incident shouldn't have happened but not because players weren't entitled to be mad.
Hoyoverse (Mihoyo back then) asked daddy google to remove the bad reviews from Genshin, why do you care about your game just at that point? if you're getting review bombed then fix the problem first then ask for it to be rolled back, I didn't participate because I already gave it a 1* rating due to optimization problems and mine got removed as well, the anniversary was underwhelming, didn't feel like a celebration and honestly Hoyoverse sucks at communicating with their players, Hoyo games were review bombed because Hoyo failed and Google classroom got review bombed because they dipped their hand on the hot oil.
I'm not saying we as players are entitled to free stuff, but don't spam the shit out of every social media platform with an anniversary just to give 10 gems to 1000 players, don't go around thinking that you're already being generous when this game already skips regular holidays in favor of in game events that ain't fixed and regular, don't act like the anniversary is important to you just to give scraps and call it a feast.
I love how we get a fixed amount of gems per patch and people go around thinking Hoyo is extremely generous when that thing is an incentive to play, I wouldn't be playing if getting something for free wasn't possible (even tho I can whale for characters regularly), don't act like 100$ to not even secure a character is decent when they release 4 per patch, don't cheat yourself into thinking that a 10 pull is extremely generous because they value that shit at 30$ Hoyo has a game so good that you can look away as they do their players dirty.
Genshin has an expiration date and 3 years after the release they realized that keeping players in might be a decent idea, for the first time in 3 years I can say I'm glad with the QoL we got, just that it shoudln't have took them 3 years but wtv, I'm just sad that it will take them 3 more years to realize that people may want to be able to play the 76 soon 77 character and counting they have and once the story is done there's just a single place to do so, ONCE! every TWO WEEKS!!! the point of this last part is that the game can't seem to pick a lane, are characters important? then give them a reason to exist, they aren't? then maybe try being a little less stingy.
I actually consider Genshin players quite tame if you consider how horrible Hoyo behaves towards them, I've never felt like such a inconvenience in any other game, is like they're actively trying to get people to quit.
From what I know genshin and honkai star rail have different dev teams
bro hsr making the same or more money than genshin lol
For Star Rail anniversary, it’s a long shot, but imagine the outcry if Star Rail anniversary has a 5-Star Selector for ANY past or current Limited and Standard 5-Star character.
I want that to happen just to see the drama that unfolds on Twitter with a bucket of popcorn beside me.
That's a thought that was bouncing around my head too lol. It's extremely unlikely though it would be hype if it happened.
It's legally can't happen.
But here is the problem, now starail anniversary reward is put up on such a high regard if it wont be what people expecting there will be a riot.
I'm actually intrigued on how would the devs do with the rewards in their anniversary since with how much generous this game is players would expect so much for the anniv and what would happen if the devs did not meet the players expectations
If you think that HSR wont get a 5-star selector for the anniversary, you are crazy. You are awfully unaware of how much 5 star characters HYV gives out in HI3. Seeing the trend on how they rewards players within the Honkai title, I’d say its a guarantee
There is already some datamining and leaks that suggest a 5* selector for HSR anniversary. The only thing we don't know yet is whether it's standard only or if it includes limited characters.
Good approach to the discussion. To add to the discussion one may take upon a wider perspective that accounts for the larger gacha/mobile game market which influences these decisions. Turn based games are very common place within this market and as a result need to find methods to differentiate and attract players to their product over others. Earlier you showcased Granblue Fantasy which is a prime example of a turn based gacha that adopts "generous" practices from time to time to maintain player attention/retention. In contrast there really isn't another product similar to Genshin Impact that has a significant hold within the market. Tower of Fantasy is the closest Genshin has seen to a competitor but even then that's only one other well known product competing with it. All of which is to say that another reason Genshin is less generous is because they are less incentivized to be due to lacking genre competition within the market.
Yeah these are exactly my thoughts. Freebies aren't just to pull players back but to entice new ones in, and some of those new ones are gonna be existing gacha players. How many people look at their GBF or FGO accounts, think "good enough", and don't start HSR? Whereas if you wanna play an open world gacha your choices are play Genshin, or wait for the competitors (which will probably start coming this year with Wuthering Waves). HSR is successful of course, but no successful game underestimates its competition.
Genshin’s marketing team is also insane. The lengths they go to for collaborations to get their products out there surpasses even the likes of Disney, especially these days.
@@ayag.8306yeah their marketing tactics are insane
they hire WHOLE orchestras to play their soundtrack, anime conventions are filled with genshin cosplayers, they do irl events for charities and other stuff
just because genshin doesnt give freebies doesnt mean the game will "flop" bro when you have no competition for your genre its so easy to keep player retention, fontaine and sumeru got me hooked
i play genshin, hsr and gbf, among many other gacha games for... 9 years already total. all i can say is - over-generosity in these games isnt exactly a good thing. its either to entice players, or... to hide something. for gbf - its a major banner bloat, for hsr and hi3 - constant powercreep (less for hsr but i'm afraid it soon will reach that point too) and the game strong-arming you into having characters you dont want, but need because of them making even the content casuals are supposed to be able to finish harder and harder. and so to keep the playerbase playing, they do this. not to mention that most of these qol are ones that make games like hsr literally unplayable because all the game has is.... grind. genshin has, in comparison, a lot of things to do.
@@SorarikoMotone not to mention hsr has a pretty bad story overall
i mean their world building is pretty good but general story building in the loufu is disgustingly bad
I definitely feel I _need_ more characters just to clear contents in HSR compared to Genshin at around the same period. In Genshin all I needed in first 12 months was 2x DPS (one of them was 4*) at max and 6~8 support/ sub dps (mostly 4*) to around lv 70.
Besides (apart from following story which both games have), combat is _all you do_ in HSR: you don't explore, solve puzzles, learn to dodge the boss attack by studying its patterns (= optional, but doing this can compensate for having relatively low DPS / using non-meta characters). In HSR being able to dish out enough dmg within limited turns is crucial - have the right breaker, buffer, debuffer, speed booster, energy or sp generator - whatever that might take. Naturally you want as many options as possible.
Yea because the game is for baby
@@shutup1037😂
This is the situation of genshin being TOO easy. Positive for beginners but negative for Old players since the hardest challenge in the game (12A) Can littearly be solo'ed by a good build Dps
@@shutup1037😂 bro
@@shutup1037 Huh. Then for a baby game, it's a rather successful one regardless.
Also, I don't think baby games depict an instance of suicide, the reality of mortality, mass genocide of an entire tribe, etc.
I honestly agree with this approach. As someone who play both games.
I honestly feel tired of the loud toxic minority in both communities. The ones in the genshin community with the "better hit them where it hurts" mentality that thinks that harassment is the solution and hoyoverses owes them something. And the ones in the Honkai Star Rail community that search genshin related content and go out of their way to fight in comments with those same toxic players just to rub in the free character making the HSR players look entilted and childish.
Like bro, wtf are you doing, that doesn't represent the genshin community nor the star rail one at all, actual players couldn't care less about what the other thinks or receive, like istg I've never seen so many toxic people in the same place when trying to search for game news or seeing twitter community posts, leave the poor person behind the official genshin/star rail twitter alone, log off and touch grass, its just a game, you have a life to attend💀
the toxic positivity crew also has a few screws loose it seems
@@toukoenriaze9870 True that, no idea how people can stick up for the game
Glad to see your return! Hope you've been well.
Definitely agree that building multiple characters feels way more at the core of what HSR is about, so giving freebies to incentivise this makes sense. Tho I will say I do hope that HSR starts to slow down on its new characters now there's a bit of a buffer for re-runs, I don't want power-creep like DHIL and Jingliu to keep happening every other patch, and also don't want them to "run out" of interesting kit ideas this early in the game's life.
I completely agree though I do believe power creep is a bit of non issue considering all the unites after jingliu and dan havent had damage close to them but rather intresting kits like topaz and ratio and argenti
Power creep is not that much of an issue dw about it. They're not unusable, they'll just have a bit of slower clear time than before or compared to the new character
Right. I dont feel any fomo for pulling any new characters in genshin anymore. Im fine if XL is my fire sub dps forever lol. Whereas I feel like the characters I have in star rail is not enough. Character/team bldg is the biggest aspect of turn based games whereas Im pretty much happy with my current characters while exploring genshin. Havent pulled a single fontaine character lmao. Of course, I'd probably feel the same way with HSR probably after 2-3 years.
Star Rail faces tougher competition as its a turn based game, it has to compete with big names like FGO and GBF, but one reason I think Star Rail is, and I personally think needs to be, generous is player retention and how the game is structured. Genshins characters arent purely based on their individual kits but also their elements, reactions are a major mechanic in Genshin and even if you dont have a specific character you can always substitute them with a different one as long as the required element and maybe utility is met and reactions allow most characters in Genshin to shine even if theyre considered weaker. Star Rail doesnt really have that luxury, you will genuinely feel it when you lack specific character archetypes for specific fights, its not really easy to substitute them because your rotations, skill point management, and other factors get thrown for a loop. Characters in SR are also basically the bulk of the content, in Genshin exploration, puzzles, and other side content are more prevalent. Its far more limited in SR which makes combat through things like SU and MoC and the occasional event the bulk of the games playable content.
Also both games have bad grinds but I'll take Genshins artifact grind over Star Rails any day as 1. Genshin has room for off pieces in sets, 2. Ornaments are genuinely one of the worst things to farm in the game 3. Recycling artifacts is way cheaper and self-modelling resin at best gives temporary pieces because theyre still subject to horrible substat rng. In terms of materials both games give out about the same so its a slog to get in either.
The fact I've geared more characters in star rail than in genshin makes more think star rail is easier and quicker. Yes no offpiece but the offpiece in genshin is often the goblet. The equivalent in Star Rail drops a lot more percentage wise, so there's more chance to get your orb and element of choice. You can get a bit pickier with your subs unlike the goblet in genshin where if you get 1 sub you're happy.
and then you forgot about how genshin time gates their artifacts and character mats and "have to wait" for monday, wednesday or even sunday. Where as starrail doesn't do that goofy sh*t, so cope hard kid.
"In terms of materials they give the same" that's totally false just from the energy system HSR have more with 240, if u only farming relics that day, u get 12 5* compare to 8 in Genshin and per week in HSR u get double the Genshin. That's just flat out wrong
genshin don't timegate artifacts domains bro, only character talents and weapon ascension materials and it's not even that important, since from 1.0 genshin kinda tell the players to slow down with how they design their contents. Also, in genshin you dont need to be strong as early as star rail, underleveled or worst build possible still can clear most contents thanks to elemental reaction. @@meme_lover.69
So much ignorance and lack of awareness is wild. Specially that last paragraph is just filled with the most delusional babbling I've read in a while now. U can try to apply all the contentious logic u want to help u cope. It's ok. We get it. You're a genshin stan, you don't have to prove anything.
I feel like Genshin is gonna get the Star Rail treatment once it finally gets some competition, so far Genshin is the only really successful open world Gatcha game (We got Tower of Fantasy but that game was just a mess and it fell off pretty quickly), and because of the monopoly that they have over the open world gatcha scene they don’t need as many marketing strategies (i.e. giving out free rewards), Wuthering Waves is probably the only game that I’ve seen that has the opportunity to be an actual competitor to Genshin
It's not happening. Because you all fail to realize the difference between the games. Other gachas are prone to powercreep, but genshin? National team is plenty still strong and even the free characters like Kaeya, Lisa, Collei, Traveler, and noelle are good, even now, when you put sufficient effort into them. They give free five stars because they NEED to to keep players engaged and not frustrated. Its a need, not a generosity. I see so many people kiss the boots of much more predatory games just because they give free five stars once a year or smthng.
I quit HSr because it didn't interest me and recently went back and it's so much more of a pain with just starters than Genshin could ever be. Especially since I raised my equilibrium without prefarming. Just pain and suffering.
wuthering waves is also a hoyo game, right? or was i mistaken?
Copium
@@donatellingno it's from Kurogames
Genshin will likely never face real competition. There’s absolutely no incentive for them to give any handouts when clearly the player base won’t leave. The only problem I see is the barrier for new players as they have no manner to build new characters even if they do have a level 90 party. Genshin might “fix” that but nothing else will be better.
I think one of the biggest reasons for HSR's generosity compared to Genshin is that HSR isn't as groundbreaking as Genshin. It has to compete with other games, unlike Genshin which was, and still is, genre defining. Because they have to compete with other games to keep people playing, they give more rewards. With Genshin, there is no real competition. Wuthering Waves might become competition later, but as of right now, there are no other games that offer what Genshin does, so they have to do much less to keep people playing.
The way I see it is Star Rail can’t afford to be like Genshin because of its mechanics. If you don’t have the necessary characters to tackle specific kinds of enemies you will hit a very tough wall. It’s honestly a little shocking to me it took this long for Star Rail to give players a free imaginary character meant for breaking toughness because Yukong is definitely not that. Players who don’t have Welt or the two limited imaginary characters just don’t get to play with that mechanic reliably.
Genshin makes sure you have everything you need to solve all their puzzles, as well as added additional characters for free to continue that mentality as well as a second healer. A free 5 star would definitely be good advertising but I can’t ignore their open world play style filled with free resources is meant to incentivize putting in time exploring if you don’t want to swipe. Star Rail doesn’t have that luxury because it’s not open world. They have to be more direct in their rewards alongside said their quicker rotations for players to keep up.
Genshin also does a free 4 star every other event most of the time but because it’s not a 5 star people don’t care. So as much as I want them to give one I can’t really say they have any need to. A big thing the community always says is that any character can clear the hardest content with enough effort. That isn’t true for Star Rail💀
Cope
The wall thing hits home. I lucked out getting Welt from the starter banner and I started during Luochas banner so I had him as well as Yukong. Imaginary enemies were never a problem. Ice on the other hand has been a bear to deal with because I was told not to build Herta (bad advice, build everyone in this game. Everyone!) March is okay at freezing stuff but not nessisairily breaking and my Plela suffers from bad artifact RNG so she has never performed well for me. And since I refuse to spend on this game and pull for units I like, I never pulled Jinglu, nor d I have dying sword boy, so yeah the wall is real.
“As much as I want them to give one I can’t really say they have the need to”
that right there is the problem if you don’t tell them what they doing is wrong. You basically letting them taking advantage of you. This is no different than getting wrongfully arrested admitting your guilt when you have the right to speak out.
As if HSR doesn’t also give a free 4* every other patch lol
only the difference is - hsr 4* are trash in comparison to 4* in genshin. genshin characters are just more... versatile.@@Limrick1029
I do think power creep plays a role, too. Genshin does have power creep in the sense that sometimes, newer characters are stronger than older ones, but Spiral Abyss is the only endgame in town. Its difficulty can vary depending on the enemy lineup, but on the whole it's not noticeably harder now than it was in 1.X. Honkai Star Rail, on the other hand, is not only giving us a plethora of different endgame modes (MoC, Swarm Disaster V, Gold and Gears V Conundrum 12, the upcoming Pure Fiction), it's also added two stages to MoC and upped the requirements for 3-star clears before we've even hit 2.0. Compounding this is the fact that, generally speaking, 5-star characters are better than their 4-star equivalents. This is true for both games to some extent, but Honkai Star Rail has been more consistent and deliberate in upholding this. Compare Sushang to Seele, or Natasha to Luocha, or even Asta to Ruan Mei, and you'll realize there really is no comparison. Is it still possible to fully clear MoC with just 4-stars? Yes, but you'll need to spend twice as much effort to get the godly relics needed to achieve the same result, and at the rate we're going, I don't know if it'll still be possible in, say, 3.X. As much as I dislike some things about Genshin, it has never had this issue and most likely never will.
So I think this is why Dr. Ratio is free. Because otherwise, newer players and those who skipped the big DPS units like Dan IL or Jingliu would have no hope of catching up, and MHY is aware of this. They realize the power creep is happening, and don't really plan to fight it, but don't want people to quit over it either. And the only way out of that kind of dilemma is to make sure EVERYONE gets to sample some of the fun new toys you're making.
While i agree to the points of HSR being generous than Genshin, the game mechanics part isnt true at all, and painting Genshin's gameplay is generic and monotome is simply just disingenuous and incredibly biased. What is boring in Genshin is its endgame modes, but the elemental reaction based gameplay with all the gauge theory nuances and dodging mechanics is far more engaging than the mostly elemental matching for shield breaking gameplay in a turn based combat.
Believe it or not, you cant just brute force all the way through abysses using a single team. Remember the 3.7 abyss with the survival and elemental check? Yeah. So before you go bandwagoning on the Genshin hateboner, try to stand at a more objective position and appreciate the strengths both games have to offer.
Another thing you forgot to mention is that genshin at its core is an open world exploration game.
Key word exploration.
A lot of the rewards in genshin are also tied to the exploration...characters being the exception.
You dont have that in star rail.
So its really a question on the dleiverance.
Star rail dumps its all in your lap no questions ask...but you actually have to do stuff for rewards in genshin like look around the map.
All the rewards in Star Rail are locked behind fun endgame content that actually challenges the characters that you have built. In Genshin, after you explore everything and collected every single chest and time trial, there is jack shit to do. People say "play other games" but that evades the fact that Genshin has no other content at all. While HSR is chock full of endgame content.
You still get less rewards even after clearing everything in Genshin, and those reward’s don’t take you as far. An F2P player can’t even dream of pulling for a 5* character every patch in Genshin, let alone a weapon, while in HSR you can easily grab a 5* character every single patch, and even F2Ps have some signature Light Cones to their name. The experience of exploring the world is a big part of the reward in Genshin, but the tangible rewards are seriously lacking.
@@paulyvii Dude some of us LOATH "endgame" content. Genshin was literally made with that audience in mind. It's the reason why I don't go around saying Star Rail is a crappy game because it lacks exploration and story and I don't like MOC and SU. I'm NOT it's target audience, and it sounds like you are. Not everything has to be made with you in mind.
@@Limrick1029 I have 2 Genshin accounts, one F2p, where I limit my pulls. With only 8 limited 5 stars (in a year of playing I have a small fortune in unused primos) and only free stuff I can still clear abyss easily and have been for over 6 months. You don't need a new 5 star every patch in Genshin in order to stay competitive. On my other account I've literally gotten sick of pulling new units and building them (62 characters and all but 5 or 6 are built). Meanwhile, on my Star Rail account I have NOT been able to pull a 5 star every patch because I can't access much of the endgame rewards. Sometimes I can't even get all the event jades. The only signature 5 star light cones I have are from the standard banner. I can barely 3 star floor7 of MoC. You might think SR is more generous than Genshin but they are about the same. The difference is the player and how well they are able or willing to access the game.
I'm always surprised at the amount of players who's worlds I spawn into and they have 0 exploration done (not even exagerating). I'm ar 60 so I'm mostly getting paired with ar 50 and up. I'm like" you haven't explored ANYTHING not even Monstat?" And the answer I get is "I hate exploring." "It's marketed as an open world game though..."
Two words: Cai Haoyu
Many factors, but it all boils down to this dude.
For people that don't know: Cai Haoyu is the former head honcho that oversaw the development of HI3rd, and he is notorious for how stingy he is when it comes to the rewards he gives to the players that play the games he oversees.
@@jdjGSHBFjh68827 that dude has not worked on genshin for years now but i get it. you all need a face to blame for your frustrations. even if it means making up shit that doesnt actually exist and hasnt existed for years now. we all need something to cope with, after all.
I also think it just has to do with the fact that honkai star rail has far much more competition for retention than genshin. The closest games to genshin that are gacha are Punishing Grey and Honkai Impact 3rd, games that have similar combat but lack the open world asthetic to the same extent. Honkai has to compete with just about any gacha with a turn based or gacha system.
Like as far as I am aware, the most consistent turn based gacha out there is FGO and it has an established fan base in Fate, hsr doesn't have that. So to compete, you gotta give a lot of pity compared to a game like fgo where pity is non existent. Its the best way to get good rep with gacha gamers, I mean look at Nikke, obviously theres another appeal for Nikke but they also make it very easy to get the characters you want, and in turn it makes a decent amount of money.
They did end up giving out the base Herrscher form of the Honkai trio and some other like Ai, mobius, etc, for free at a certain point in HI3 (maybe just because the game's story is basically near finished at the time), on top of the other farmable ones. Or maybe Genshin is just the different child.
this is different HI3 always gave out more shit. even at the start when the game was a literal scam since you needed to gacha to LV UP weapons you already had pulled in gacha. later this upgrade material became abundant for free. but even that the start HI3 gave tons of free skins. i played the first summer even soon after launch and got 4 bikinis for free and only 1 skin of the 5 was a paid one.(also funny how those bikinis are nos soft banned since other players cannot see them if you play coop with them and they cant see them in the characters available skins.) love himeko in a thing black bikini. honkai gave more free skins away in the first 1 o 2 year than genshin has total skins.
also all 4 stars in HI3 are FREE you get them for free and farm them to C6 or E6 for free over 3 months. and they also give a ton of 5 stars for free new and old. if genshin was like this venti and zhongli would both be free by now. also in Hi3 I got all the characters in the game. as a 5$ monthly player with all older 5 star now C6 from farming.
@@lucaskp16 not gonna mention how all those free characters typically need their signature gear to not feel like shit in endgame grinding? no? ok lol typical honkai player that doesnt speak on the shit powercreep and what not.
@@justsomeguy727 here is the diff. in hi3 abyss has rankings. i was in myriad abyss that pretty much req you yo pull almost every character all full gear I didn't so I went up there and right down next abyss.
but for the second tier red lotus I could do everything easy with characters pull as a 12 USD monthly player of bp+montlypass.
and for a tier down from there you could just be free 2 play.
not the difference in crystal from the tiers was not that big. 520 top 500 second and 460 third 420 fourth where enemies where weak as fuck. the diff between tier is big like a 3x in hp of enemies.
so the diff between buying every character full gear and pulling all the characters with almost no gear was 100 crystal.
but the game was more generous I played at the star so I have the now ban for new players old bikinis. but quit because it was a shit experience unless you spend a lot and because I was still playing GGZ their previous game at the time. then came back with eva event release and from that point forward in less than 2 years I got every single character in the game and most of them with full fear. skipping only bait characters that where unnecessary for abyss like future adult bronya. but end up getting her and her gear later on anyway and pulling for other weapons and stigmas got her full gear.
Look who's back!! It's been a while. I hope you're doing well 🤩
I'm just tired of every time HSR adds anything you can already predict that the first thing half the community will do is talk shit about Genshin and make fun of anyone who dares say they like Genshin.
Seriously this is already getting ridiculous and annoying and I'm sure it will only get worse when ZZZ launches.
At this point people, siding genshin devs in the face of them being lazy/complacent with how they handle the game are like those people who say that eating dog shit is indeed not bad and it in fact tastes like chocolate. Of course you’d laugh at them.
As they should be. Let them genshin Devs know that they are doing a bad job
@@gyanaranjansenapati1548immaturity is blaming developers for choices made by the upper management
You have no idea what game development even is
@@Daniele-PierreDuLac The problem is acting like it's not a good game when Genshin has quality and consistency in content that you almost don't see in the gacha market, there's always an event going on, a new area to explore, a character gets more characterization, etc... But everyone isolates the negatives and acts as if the rest doesn't exist
@@gyanaranjansenapati1548 Look at the quality of explorable areas, history, characters, lore, events, etc...
The game maintains a constant standard of quality that you don't see in almost any game on the market.
Also, I wouldn't say that Genshin is the kind of game where you collect loads of characters for loads of different scenarios or just.. to collect - this could probably be a reason as they have different gameplay + game styles.
It is boring to play the same characters in any gacha tho. In my experience the lack of currency to pull for different characters made me quit a lot of stingy gachas. It certainly made me quit Genshin in literally one month and play Star Rail since its release every day 😂
@@Lusc1nt That's just Gacha for you, they're fun until you run into the clear issues with them. So either you stick it out for loads of things you like, or you just don't bother.
I'm a collector so I do my best to get them all, except Xiao. I don't like his attitude~
@@carlamariecadizon9101 Xiao's goated ;-; - play in JP or CN if you wanna hear a different attitude
@@KindaMad958its fine. its all the same character anyway, not withstanding the dub. Besides, Kazuha's skill is way suited for my playstyle.
Saying star rail is more generous than genshin is like saying honkai impact is more generous than star rail; its not generosity at all, is more like pity of you, player that will *have* to go for more characters/weapons cuz good luck getting a decent score on honkai impact's "abyss" without the perfect meta unit for the current weather lol
Also, idk if its just me but events on star rail tend to want more attention/time of you to get all the useful rewards than genshin, idk how to feel about that but it is certainly annoying to know that I have to clear the new, long af permanent mode to get some extra rewards, straight up said "fuck huo huo" and just got the free lc at s5 then ignored the extra rewards.
I mean that event was supposed to be the main content of the update. Imagine if it was really short and could be completed in an hour then you had to wait 6 weeks to get more 💀
@@shslborger6895 its not just one event, all permanent events are like that.
For me the reason they are Generous in HSR is because they also want to increase the market even more.
HSR literally made more or the same profit with Genshin within 4 months of release, with half the player base. Now imagine you double that player base and the profit would totally doubled as well.
But you're statement seems true as well, I never thought about it, HSR genre is just fundamentally different to an Open World focused game where u don't need a lot of characters to play with.
I think HSR is just more generous in general, the fact that you just get free pulls whenever a new update drops in HSR compared to Genshin which only does it during its anniversary and lantern rite events shows enough difference.
Bruhh every game when it gets released has alot hype around it HSR got released during Dead patches for Genshin so alot of players tried it out(including me) and spent some money (including me) but if u see the HSR graph is falling and Falling also On top that HSR releases 2 new 5 star characters per patch whereas Genshin only releases 1 character patch they basically Double Sucking the whales cuz they are gonna C6/E6 everything and also HSR is already having the Power creepet problem where new characters are just stronger than characters released previous patch and In genshin that's only really the case like the only case of powercreep u can make is Neuvilette being Over ayato but that's a far stretch cuz ayato does have that Off-field presence whereas Neuvilette doesn't, I feel HSR is just releasing way to many characters for Whale to dump there money on whereas genshin is not at the same speed and Also Old characters are just as good as new ones when comes to Damage per Rotation
@@riverajustinmarks. well yes that's a fact, but there must be a reason why, and that's what being discussed
@@idhantmandlecha5703
1. Which graph of HSR is falling? If ur saying the popularity, it doesn't matter the profit is still great over the course of 4 months and for Hoyo that's good
2. Powercreep only happens when DanIL came out, if u've seen the newer characters they are supports for existing characters (Topaz), a less powerful DPS (JingLiu), an Okay Healer (HuoHuo), and an all right Phys DPS (Argenti), so which character are you calling powercreep?
3. HSR is a whale bait cause they release too many characters. That's already stated in the video that the fundemental of the game is different, where they're filling holes and new roles with each of new characters because every content is combat focused.
@@pistonfry bro jingliu is even better and does more damage than dhil but if you whale and have dhil at e2 thats where he can go crazy otherwise at e0 dhil doesnt beat jingliu
6:20 since dendro came out I’ve been using the same hyperbloom team (changing a bit when I get more characters) and it works well (except the fact that my builds are trash but that’s on me) EVERYWHERE. I don’t even think on getting characters that don’t fit this play style unless I’m playing for too long and get bored
I think the reason that HSR is getting 2 new 5\*s per patch is just because it's earlier in its lifecycle. Genshin got 2 per patch back when it first released. Genshin released 2 new 5\*s every patch up until 2.1 (Raiden Shogun + Sangonomiya Kokomi), 2.2 actually had no new 5\*s (Hu Tao + Childe reruns), and 2.3 started the trend of 1 new 5\* and double reruns.
3.0 upped it further to the current system of 1 new 5\* and *3* rerun banners (1 with the new 5\* and 2 on the other half of the patch). I'm sure that eventually HSR will drop down to 1 new 5\* per patch (they're already up to 4 total banners with 2 new and 2 rerun), but for right now since there are just fewer characters than Genshin, they can add 2 new 5\*s per patch without causing issues with rerun schedules like when Eula took almost a full year to rerun.
Genshin released 2 new 5 stars in its first 4 patches. 1.4 had no new 5 stars. 1.5 had Eula and 1.6 had Kazuha. 2.0 and 2.1 had 2 new 5 stars each.
Someone didn't check his facts.
I don't see how giving 10 pulls for free is considered "generous" when you're basically forced to skip half of the characters.
I play all hoyo games and this is the most stressful one when it comes to pulls.
How is 10 free pulls not generous, care to elaborate?, even if you don't want the character in the banner you can just save those 10 tickets for a future banner and after some updates you will have a bunch of them to build piti or to push a 50/50, your point makes no sense bud, cope harder next time.
@fullcoffee950 10 free pulls are not enough to keep up with the amount of characters they're releasing
@@MrGoodra17 it's a gacha game, as a free to play, you don't expect to pull every character.
. Are you accoustic? They also release content with the free 10 pull which usually leads to around 40 pulls@@MrGoodra17
Genshin released 5-stars at the same rate as HSR. And Genshin also had a free 10 pull every pa... wait a minute...
Thank god, finally a video that doesnt doomerpill about Genshin
Fun fact in Form of Solidity (Ice martial exhibit) 4:30 if you pick "Arm Bar" for round 2 and "Rear Naked Choke" for round 3 then on the final round you can focus one enemy to freeze them while saving pela's aoe ult which will freeze the unfrozen enemy and break the frozen on the other refreshing her ult allowing for an infinite loop.
With this you can easily one cycle the final round.
No, theyre just stingy. The logic in this video doesnt justify the reasoning because the some of the things points are also true at genshin.
The community are pretty much black pilled. No wonder even their content maker contribute the terrible reputation GI game have. Too many corrupt creator in Hoyo Sphere I'm pretty slowly but surely packing by bags and get to other player more welcoming than this corrupted community...
im a day one HSR player, (except im causal since i much prefer genshin, but i do login for the dailies and that stuff) and i was so shocked and confused when they announced that dr. ratio is free. you could argue it's because the honkai series is what put food on their table all those years ago with GGZ and the early days of HI3 which is 100% valid, but it's still so confusing to me.
sure, genshin is their cash cow, why would they want to give stuff out for free that decreases the amount of income they're receiving? except they already do some giveaways, like the welkin ones for the anniversaries and whatnot, so it's not like its unheard of from genshin. heck, we even got aloy, but she was a collab character (and really bad) so most people don't seem to count her.
tbh i hope that they be more generous in genshin, but it doesn't affect me that much as somebody who plays both games. hopefully we get something good during lantern rite! (if leaks are to go off of, anyway.)
Your take on this topic makes sense honestly, turn-based games are everywhere in the gachas alongside the Idle genre, but even then this still doesn’t explain genshins obvious stinginess. Like why is this game 3 years old and still hasn’t given out even ONE non-limited 5 star character let alone weapon? Literally one of if not the stingest anniversary and game awards rewards I’ve ever seen even more so then average gachas. But I think they are being a bit more generous this lantern rite? Don’t know. Didn’t really look to much into it.
I am thinking it's their Artistic hubris that makes them not give anything. Genshin probably takes 4 times more work compared to a normal Gacha to develop. Plus, their world building, open world and characters are some of the best we can experience on the Gacha scene and no other game comes close.
Their hubris makes them think they are the best in the world or something, when good story based games outside the Gacha genre exist.
nah, its because people are greedy. we already see ungrateful people whining over ratio because they dont want him, they want another 5* like ruan or smth. for y'all it will be NEVER enough. which is the true hubris of gacha players - greed. @@RKNancy
I mean, what is not to understand? There is no competition for GI, so why give the rewards? They are saving that for when there is competition and they want their players to stay or get back lost players or get newer players. HSR is playing in the extremely saturated auto-play turn-based collect-the-characters gacha market. It needs to be generous or it won't be able to compete with well established gachas already.
@@SorarikoMotone sure man the gacha players are greedy and not the multi-billion dollar company 💀 hyv white knights always have the most braindead takes
@@SorarikoMotone too many greed and manipulated by toxic influencers are here they never see a good perspective of the game they just want rewards more more rewards and freebies
Funny, I find it way more tedious to build new characters in HSR over genshin.
I agree and I think that's the consensus over all. I believe he phrased it a bit wrong. I think his main point is that they improved the systems a bit after people complained about it. Meanwhile in Genshin we've had very little improvements to the grinding systems even though we've been asking for them for years. Only recently did they start doing some nice QoL changes.
Care to expound? Other than it maybe costing more per character to build which i kinda see, HSR does seem to make all the QoL changes to make rhe building process easier. Would like to hear your perspective tho!
I don’t think anything in HSR matches the tedium of having to wait for bosses to respawn a dozen times, or only being able to get a weekly boss’s rewards once a week.
Many players crap on Genshin for its artificial time gating of the material domains, but for me, this time gating helps me, a f2p player, to conserve resin better and not waste too much time to grind for artifacts.
My routine when building characters in Genshin is farming boss mats for levels, then farming domains for weapon mats, then farming domains for talent mats, then artifacts. Since weapon and talent mats are time gated, I made sure to weave in artefact grinding on days when the domains are not open. Sure, you won't get to use your new character on the spot, but by the time you have your levels, weapons and talents maxes, you'd already have some artifacts. Granted, you may not have a full set, the subsets may be trash, so you may need to grind more, but on lucky days, you'd have some usable artifacts by the time you have your new character maxed. I'm a f2p player who cares a bit about meta to be choosy on characters I want to use, but not too much that I would grind for months for perfect top stat artifacts, so make of that what you will. For me, this system is good enough.
In HSR, all the domains are open everyday, so your characters are maxed faster. However, you would still need to grind for artifacts, and the absence of domain time gating will impose no limit on your artifact grinding, so I may be stuck to grind artifacts for a specific character for too long. I still have no suitable shoes for my Dan Heng IL 😢 yet I still haven't farmed the mats for Dr Ratio, Bronya and Silver Wolf who I pulled during Argenti's banner...
Both systems are good in their own way, and I totally understand the FOMO on using a new character, so I understand why players don't like Genshin's system
Bro nah I have to wait a whole week to get the materials for my characters bruh n I gotta climb a whole mountain to get to a damn domain n I have like zero resin after doing allat n then getting the wrong artifact
Imma disagree with that Genshin is harder to build characters.
With the amount of new characters star rail keeps giving out, the burn out comes much faster when it comes to building EACH NEW ONE. It doesn’t help that you need A LOT of ascencion materials. And you also need a lot of semi to full built characters if you want to keep up with the power creep
Dont get me started with the amount of relics and RNG luck for star rail
Interesting take! I find that building a character is often the thing that gives me the motivation to even play the game, which is why I've loved Star Rail making and giving so many unique characters to build around. Currently soooo looking forward for Dr. Ratio as i realized that with Ruan Mei and Welt, and perhaps someone like Asta for extra speed, I might be able to make a comp that is sustainless, just barraging enemies with slow while i constantly speed up.
@@king_alloy I’m just comparing how I felt when I first started genshin (1.3/ 1.4) vs star rail (1.0).
When I played genshin at the start, I could get away with just using my 4 characters for the whole gameplay (except abyss). I only started building other characters when I wanted to get serious with abyss and that was like maybe 5 patches after I started genshin
With star rail, at the start I was already given a lot of characters to build. I couldn’t also just get away with only using just 4 characters cause if I did then it would take forever to kill story bosses. So I spend my trail blaze power on materials and relics for more characters than I ever had to do with genshin
@@king_alloy and oh! I don’t mind having to build characters, it does make a game fun… I just feel overwhelmed by the amount star rail has and then the power creeps that’s coming in
I’m glad for the free Dr Ratio too but I’m dreading the building of him ngl hahaha xD (I’m still trying to build my argenti)
@@rikkuree @rikkuree ooh I got it! And yeah I can understand that sentiment, you do need quite a few more characters in HSR so yeah it could suck having to build all of em, I get that. I was super excited to have more Quantum DPS options with Xueyi but then realizing how I'd have to build her made me delay that haha.
Good luck on your relics! Hope RNGesus goes your way a bit more!
@@king_alloybut doesn't it get tedious having materials locked behind bosses and time gated domains. Started Genshin in 4.2 and the amount of times where I needed a Material only to find out its only available on tuesday made me lose my mind. In HSR, I only focused on 4 units as well before tackling MoC.
Welt, Tingyun, Natasha, Fire MC. That team made Belobog and Xianzhou a breeze. It was only after tackling MoC that I realized the need to diversify and build more units. Building my original team wasn't a priority till I wanted to tackle MoC. The Story gives you lots of materials to progress, they was no need to farm at all.
This is a good argument.
I honestly never cared noir wanted a free 5 star in Genshin - its just unneccessary.
I don't count generosity by how many free characters you're given. If SR's gameplay needs more characters so the players are given out a 5-star for free, I can't call that more generous. Like other gachas, for example. If they give out even a dozen free SSRs but require a lot of dupes to ascend/level them up, then that's not generous. In Genshin, one copy is already a lot. Especially new Fontaine 5-star characters. It's a lie if you say that they're not powercreeps. One copy of Neuvillette, for example, and you can already flush most enemies down the toilet. A Furina can deal damage, heal, give buffs and indefinitely run on water. A Navia hits like a truck that it's easy to deal 200k damage in a single hit. That's a lot of value for one character.
And if you do some maths on resin/energy caps, condensed resin included, in the end, they turn out to be the same value. I don't play SR but people say that its artifacts system needs even more farming than Genshin. Not to mention that you said it needs more characters than Genshin. Again, I can't call that being more generous.
Watch out the HSR fan boys will call you a Genshin HYV bootlicker for speaking the truth
Plus with the complexity of Genshin as a game, its 4-star characters tend to feel like the 5-star characters you find in other games. You're not just getting a PNG with the standard single target skill and all target skill with a slightly different debuff, you're getting a three dimensional unit with dynamic combat value including movement, positioning and timing, plus non-combat use cases such as exploration tools or puzzle solving tools, plus the basic fun of being able to run around with the character in an open world. The only downside with Genshin here is that a lot of the character designs are a bit lacklustre, if Genshin had the design quality of HSR, the 4-stars would feel like 6-stars.
people who call more free shit "generosity" are just addicts anyway lol it's literally the free food samples experiment. oh this place gave me more free samples than that one? must mean they care about me as a customer more.
like no, they just want you to shop at their food establishment over the competition's LMAO and people really do fall for it every time. the perfect psychological bait.
@@yurisei6732 meh , hsr designs dont grab me all the time either so idk how true that is. both can be very hit or miss. Blade? awesome. Dan IL ? kinda mid. Kafka ? great. the 12736 luofu women sharing the same dress template ? i sleep.
At least genshin has gaming
What gaming? Press E+Q and watch your enemy dies?
@@MystleTayn bro doesn't know☠️
@@MystleTaynchill brother, Gaming iza character name
💀💀
People still don't understand how big genshin impact is. It literally plays in a diferent league even compared to Star Rail...
For context, this is the opinion of someone who played over 15 gacha games in the past 10+ years and currently plays 6 at the same time, including most of the hoyoverse games.
Gacha games are generous when they want you to stay.
Genshin's success cannot be understated. The release in 2020 was both a blessing and a curse at the same time. It made the indie company a billion dollar corporation but at the same time, the palyerbase was higher than anyone could have predicted. And the crazy part is that they seem to have been growing steadily since the release based on average sales (not download numbers cause those would include rerolls).
Once again, the size of Genshin's playerbase cannot be overstated:
I will never forget watching the 2.0 livestream, seeing 200-300 thousand people on twitch, and then seeing a screenshot of the chinese stream on bilibili. They had 22 million live viewers(!!!).
That made me realize that it is pointless to compare this game to FGO,Granblue,Epic Seven...etc. These games are literally unable to compete.
Unless Genshin gets a competitor, someone who pulls the same numbers as them, you should not expect free stuff. Because there is no point in giving more than the bare minimum, since there is no risk of losing players to other competitors... This will not happen however, since we are already past the lockdown era.
Even Mihoyo themselves tried and failed at replicating the "Genshin phenomena". You can see this in how Star Rail was trying to be a turn based Genshin game at the beginning (especially in CBT).
You can feel how much Mihoyo was hoping to recreated the pandemic miracle. But after 6 monthhs, it is clear that Star Rail will have to be content with competing with FGO, Uma musume, NIKKE etc.. You can even see how in the last 2-3 month, Star Rail started to change and move away from Genshin in terms of design to fully carve out their own identity.
I expect this year they will continue changing and implementing more of the traditional gacha stuff that Genshin players are not used to see..
All the while Genshin sits atop the competition alone...waiting for someone to give them a reason to be generous to their players...
This is just flat out incorrect. HSR's overall sales are in the same ballpark as Genshin's. It was actually easily outselling Genshin until the Topaz/Argenti/Huohuo trio arrived. It was easy to predict none of those characters were ever going to sell well before their banners even hit for various reasons.
Currently, Ruan Mei is doing great sales and outselling every recent Genshin banner besides Furina.
@@TheHouseInFataMorganahuh? Do you have any proof for what youre saying because so far ruan mei seems like she'll do as much as the average new genshin character in terms of revenue.
Yeah on the December sensor data genshin is number one with Navia so I don't see where this Ruan mei doing better is coming from
I mean it is really all that bad that star rail is much smaller to genshin in comparison? I also don't think the devs didn't see this coming. Genshin might have the highest player numbers in the gacha genre but at least they could be more passionate in other games like Hi3, star rail, tears of themis and now zenless zone zero and keep maintaining their revenue on genshin to fund their passion projects.
@@lancertheimaginary8462 my guy acting as if genshin isnt a passion project, like bro, what game did hoyo put all their money at the time to make ? What game goes on to detail every single aspect of its open world and lore? If a little qol and freebies is all it takes for a game to be considered a passion project then stuff like azure lane is pure passion and obviously the better game.
Good analysis! As a Genshin only player, I have always been quite envious of HSR’s QOL and generosity. But this made me understand it better. Thank you 😊
So something important to note here is that between Star Rail and Genshin. Star Rail’s meta has been changing faster than Genshin’s. That and the high tier content like forgotten halls and Simulated Universe. The desire to have more characters to deal with the many different encounters. Star Rails meta is similar to their other game, Honkai’s. There are three main endgame activities for you to use your characters in. Memorial Arena, Elysian Realm, and Abyss with reaching Nirvana rank as your goal in Abyss. Each one requires you to have at least one one team or character that is either in the meta like Ruan Mei or deals an absurd amount of damage in just a few attacks like DHIL. Hoyo often throws free S-rank characters to the players that are still situationally good. Currently there is a event going on where you can get HoS for free. She’s a physical buffer that can be modified to be turned into a dps. She’s been outclassed by HoRb but she’s still a good alternative you don’t have the other. That seems to be what Hoyo is doing here
Or... You can just follow the rules of the stage and clear it with decent amount of afford without destroying your brain.
For example the current endgame patch just want you to break their armor as fast as possible to do tons of damage. Just follow the rule of stage makes everything alot easier rather than pulling for latest unit or even meta damage unit
I made a no special pull account 3 months ago and completed moc 12 recently. Even if meta changes more frequently in HSR, it depends on you to improve the characters you have in a way they'll work their best in all settings. "Meta" is defined differently by every player. Some call it one-shoting the enemy and some call it having more fun.
I’m a day one Honkai star rail player who also played Genshin since day 1 of its release. I knew seele was meta at that time but I preferred to pull for characters that I liked such as design and animations, so I pulled for Jing Yuan. I soon came to realize how HSR folks cared about meta because many people talked bad about Jing Yuan and even though he wasn’t the worst dps but because he isn’t the best or comparable to seele, he was disliked. I soon lost all my 50/50 with the exception of luocha and silver wolf who were guaranteed. It was extremely hard for me to clear content unlike Genshin. I was severely punished for not pulling meta and having bad luck. The last straw was when I lost my 50/50 on blade banner. I was extremely frustrated because playing the game wasn’t fun anymore.
I recently returned because they were giving out free dr ratio. I really liked Argenti but I really needed to pull for meta but Argenti’s dps was similar to Jing yuan but for some reason people didn’t sh#t on him. I pulled Ryan mei using my guaranteed but lost on blade banner again. I am unable to clear MOC 8 full stars with my lackluster dps and my only good sustain is luocha. I guess this is the final goodbye.
I get how you feel when a character you like isn't the best when it comes to clearing content. It really sucks when people slander you for using them (JY), but who cares anyway? I've been using JY as my main dps since the day I got him and he's been doing well. I also recently cleared the current MoC with JY in the second team and Clara in the first. It isn't required for you to clear MoC, but the extra jades are nice. Overall, playing with the characters you like simply means investing more time on them. Hopefully 'weaker' units stay relevant as the game goes on.
Sad to hear that brother. It's hard to play a game that punishes your over and over. But reading on what your characters are, you have a really solid roster.
Im the same as you, I've lost 5 50/50's and only won my preferred 5 stars through guarantee. So far I can only clear MoC9, kinda having a hard time in MoC 10 due to a lack of strong physical coverage.
I hope you find your game soon.
And that is precicely the reason why they are giving out free 5-stars, jades, and other freebies in a way that appears generous: to win back or retain people that left because of repetitive and hard content
You should try Genshin as a new player. Abyss is way harder than MOC as a completely new player, especially takes longer since Genshin characters take longer to grind for. You may have done Abyss back in 1.0 when it was easy but it is NOT easy right now for players only a few months in.
@@kazuhah1743yea because they are just suck at turn based game lol
I also think it's because honkai start rail is much more profitable so they can focus more on giving us stuff because they don't need to make as much money to be profitable especially because it costs a lot less to make a game like star rail where you're interest exploring a handful of areas instead of like genshin which is an open world which takes a lot more money and time to develop
Money is not a problem
@@dracula1259 yeah, time can sure be, but they make obscene amounts of money already, profitable isnt even the right word to describe genshin
HSR IS MORE PROFITABLE RHAN GENSHIN??????? AHAHHAHAHHAHHAH ITS A JOKE RIGHT
Saying that SR is more profitable is really iffy considering that for the most part SR sales don't hit nearly as high highs as Genshin and if the banners are not interesting to players they get fairly low numbers. Honestly i think answer for the better treatment for game is simple, competition.
SR inherently has way more competition as a turn based strategy gacha as opposed to Genshin who stands uncontested as the king of open worlds gacha. Hoyo doesn't go out of their way to give many rewards to Genshin's players because they just don't need to. There is no alternative that is on the same level of Genshin so they also don't have nearly as much fear of players going away as they do with SR.
@@codyhax0995which chart or banner are you looking at?
Genshin doesn't need to be generous, genshin just needs to update the QoL.
It might not be as generous on average, but I am currently satisfied. I have every 4-star character and I have the following 5-stars: Jean, Eula, Baizhu, Qiqi, Kazuha, Kokomi, Itto, Tighnari, Cyno, Nahida, and Dehya. Plus the story is still very good, the music is amazing, and the location design is breath-taking.
The: yea in honkai impact the hp are irelevant is amaizing. Like if you get hit in that game you should better just restart the stage, because your rotation was just destroyed.
It's so much easier to build star rail characters unlike Genshin :((, in Genshin it's a literal job to build one, in star rail it's a pleasure, rewards for pulling a character.
I think you missed one important factor.
Genshin players will complain about the game but still whale on it where i feel like star rail players would just quit or somply not give hoyo any money if they were unhappy.
And before the genshin simps attack me, yes i played genshin since day 1 but have since quit just because i didnt really feel like it respected me as a player, where i feel like star rail does respect my time as a player.
The contrary for me ngl, I got bored with hsr pretty quickly and no amount of free stuff is gonna make me stick around, while genshin being a casual game is perfect for me, idc about endgame, idc about qol and idc about free stuff as long as they keep releasing quality areas to explore and good story that's all that matters for me ( and probably the majority of the playerbase)
@spacebanana712 that's fine though..Not everyone will feel the same
I feel the same about the genshin story,hence why I quit lol..the hsr story for me is way more interesting but not quite as good as honkai impact.
We all have different tastes and that's fine!
@@MrDrainBramaged yessir, thanks for saying that, most people wouldve answered me with cope lol. I just hate when people glorify a game while also talking shit about the other without considering that maybe there are people who enjoy the aspects that you hate in the other game.
@spacebanana712 ah yeah there's no point in being toxic about it haha
Everyone has different points of views and I know HSR wouldn't even exist without genshin,so there would be no point in shitting in it..I played genshin for like a year and a half or so,I came back for furina to pull on her banner but idk I feel like I'm too far behind to try to get into it again lol..Maybe someday
HSR is simply a more harsh game on the player. Genshin there is nothing to worry about outside abyss, the game's primary gameplay isnt even combat focused but exploration.
So there is very little chance for a genshin player to feel like they are left behind, can't clear content and be overall just frustrated.
As for characters you technically never need to pull more than 8 characters in genshin and many people are satisfied with focusing on the 1 unit they like the most.
HSR on the other hand is combat only outside of the story missions.
You need characters to do different content, play new teams and get some fresh air in.
So new characters are pretty much required to keep the game fresh.
Thats where the extra generosity comes in. If you get more resources and the occasional freebie but there is also still enough characters that you can't pull without spending then you string along a lot of players that will eventually pay.
Its all about keeping satisfaction just high enough so that nobody quits but just low enough that you are always thinking about spending to get a better experience.
Anyone that plays a turn-based RPG can tell you that the market is very saturated which means that HSR has a lot of competition even with the clout that Hoyo carries. With turn-based rpgs, it then becomes a collecting game towards the end, and getting all the powerful pvp/pve units because what else are you going to do other than push for higher scores? And with turn-based games, you often need certain characters for certain roles. (I play stuff like dislyte & LOH etc, you can have some of the best healers/dps and they'd still fail a scenarios if you don't have a specific skills/debuff/buff combo niche filled)
Genshin can be less generous because honestly, are there any real competitors to its specific niche of Open World Gacha RPG (that, on paper) is free to play with hundreds of hours of stuff to do (exploring, story quests, etc) that are more mechanically engaging than turn-based rpgs. Just being able to jump and climb mountains to find stuff is already more engaging (and exhausting) than setting up turns and combos then auto-ing imo. There's fun in both kinds of games, but they're really just vastly different from the get go.
It’s their head producer faults, star rail has the same as HI3 he is quite generous with what he gives, genshins(who used to be HI3’s when it’s rewards were rubbish) is very much just conserved about the money he can get, he has more power than dawei so it’s hard to get rid of him, that’s why genshin doesn’t get half decent rewards
As someone who plays both Genshin and HSR on a daily basis, I have to disagree on your take in HSR's character design.
The combat in Genshin has elemental types, who interact with each other making reactions, with all sorts of effects. With this in mind, even if a character has awful abilities, low damage/healing/shield numbers etc, will see constant and widespread use, if these abilities can trigger reactions in a meaningful way. Take Kuki, for example, her damage is shit, her healing is shit, her whole kit is shit, but her skill can trigger the "hyperbloom" reaction in a way few other characters can, and even if she herself can't deal good damage, hyperbloom sure does. As a result Kuki is one of the most popular characters in Genshin.
Meanwhile in HSR, the combat is all about weakness types, if your dps is of the same type of the enemy's weakness, thats IT, thats all you need. The other characters need only to give buffs/debuffs to help your dps damage, and heal the damage you take. There are no reactions, therefore the are no "meaningful" or "creative" ways the characters interact with each other beyond healing or shielding, buffing or debuffing. Their NUMBERS are all that matters, and when numbers are all that matters, BIGGER numbers will aways win over SMALLER numbers.
With this mind, characters overlap and compete with each other far more than in Genshin. Kuki doesn't compete with every Electro character, because she "enables" a very powerful team, even if she is weak in a vacuum, compared to others. I use Kuki frequently, even if I got other "stronger" characters, like Raiden or Keqing. Meanwhile in HSR, NOBODY uses Bailu when they have Luocha, NOBODY uses Gepard when they have Fu Xuan, NOBODY uses Yanqing when they have Jingliu. There is no situation whatsoever where you would want a Imaginary DPS and you would use Welt instead of Dan Heng IL. Even characters who are considered "strong" today are on a ticking clock, considering how Hoyo is playing "fast and loose" with the numbers of new characters. Dont believe me? Look around HSR content creators, every new DPS is "the best dps", every new support is "the best support" and every new healer is "the best healer". Today the best support is Ruan Mei, but tomorrow? I have my doubts...
**TLDR: There are many reasons why HSR is more generous than Genshin, and "character design" is NOT one of them**
my 2cents. I think they're giving out Ratio cause 1. he's not a good unit. 2. we don't have any free/starter imaginary damage units, and 3. No one is gonna roll on this guy with what just came before him and what's coming after him. He's kinda in the place of the first Yoimiya banner.
ratio is really good if you have been seeing all the HSR content creators reviewing him.
are you fucking joking? Ratio is broken, he is a proper 5 stars unlike Aloy
I think one of the reasons why Star Rail can give a free 5 star is its characters get powercrept more easily and faster compared to genshin characters. Especially Hunt units cause Destruction units can do both AoE and Single Target while Hunt is only single targeted. They can give Dr.Ratio for free cause he's going to be powercrept after penacony anyways. Like can you imagine genshin giving a free Ayaka? She came out in 2.0 and still she can destroy abyss if you can freeze enemies or give her more crit rate
That if you can freeze enemies is a huge catch though, Freeze has been pretty bad for a while. Fortunately, Ayaka and co can very easily be made good again, Mihoyo could just make a new cryo-related artifact set of some sort that doesn't depend so heavily on enemies being frozen. The big problem Ayaka has is that she loses 20CR against all bosses and many large enemies.
I never thought of it this way but it does make a lot of sense. It's still not an excuse for genshin, I'm not going back after the burnout but it's interesting to know that there is more to it.
I dropped Star Rail. In the end it felt like a Single Player game where i had to keep paying money, if i wanted to get every character and special card. No Coop Content like raids in Granblue Fantasy.
Star Rail is operating like a true gacha game. While Genshin is now heavily leaning on its open world RPG aspect.
Those who played Genshin thinking it would be focused on combat now gravitate towards Star Rail, while those who enjoy lore and exploration enjoy Genshin. A lot of us play both still because you can enjoy both combat and lore.
It is not surprising that star rail is giving plenty of free stuff because the gacha gamers expect that out of their game. And thats how they enjoy their game, new char with new skills, team optimization and all that. While missing out on a character in Genshin does not heavily diminish the enjoyment because you can explore the world and lore.
Eitherway, hoyo ultimately wins cause now they have two games that cater to two different audiences who once crowded Genshin.
the honest truth is a majority of the genshin fan base is VERY HAPPY with the state of the game, it is evident from the comment u see from all of genshins socials that people are happy with the game, genshin to me is for people that love lore, stories with insane dialogue, easy to play mini games and are VERY casual meanwhile star rail has some elements but its more centered on being getting the player engage in its combat, it has story, lore, and the aeon lore is so good but it is not a game genshin players willl enjoy 100%.
I wonder if the fanbase would unite and somehow become sour with the state of the game so mihoyo would realize that they did something wrong
@@mahiru20tenlike the commenter above said, most genshin players are happy with the game as it is rn so I don't think that's gonna happen.
@@spacebanana712 and why are most of us happy with this treatment? I think we could at least be a bit entitled or something.
@@mahiru20ten I assume it's because people like genshin for different reasons, like I would like for genshin to give us more free stuff, but I also kinda don't care enough to complain about it. Just keep making quality new areas with intresting characters and good quests and we good.
i love turn based games but gachas specifically are always the same bullshit work 9-5 running the game on autobattle for 95% of the time im on it and lack any of the actual nuance or fun mechanics that conventional turn based games would give me. so no, ima have to disagree on this personally lol hsr is more for people who want instant gratification than an actual game. (notice how much praise it receives for rewarding people for doing barely anything at all and autobattle? that isnt an accident lmao people are lazy and want as much dopamine for as little input as possible kind of like an addiction.)
speaking of auto, why is the 2x speed the same as a normal jrpg speed ? it's so baffling lmao
the way i see it is that in genshin most content is just way easier and you can clear the game with whoever you want
but in star rail the gameplay is harder and needs you to have multiple of each character type in order to comfortably clear content
i have good builds and supports but not having a proper dps for every element is keeping me from clearing higher forgotten hall levels
whereas i can clear every spiral abyss with the same nilou team and neuvilette team
That's endgame for you actual strategy, characters, optimizations and synergy needed to win
I F2P'd both games, and I quit Genshin just before Inazuma, when that archipelago thing was happening that let you get summer outfits for Jean and Barbara. I was enjoying the game and all but it was sorta burning me out and I had other things to do IRL at the time so I just kinda took a break and never really got around to continuing.
That said I can fully clear MOC in HSR, but in Genshin I really struggled at some abyss floor where you had to kill all the enemies before they killed some stationary tower or something. I forget. It's probable though that it was due to bad luck on my part getting a good 5* dps. I DID get Hu Tao, but she was only in one group, my 2nd group's top dps was keqing, who wasn't exactly high-tier back in those days. I didn't have the frost archer girl, or diluc, or mona, or xiao, or... I forget who other potential dpsers were.
oh yeah, and I never got any effing sacrificial swords (I think that's what it was called, the 4* weapon that was best in slot for like nearly every sword-using support), and my other 5* standard was qiqi, and I got 2 5* weapons from standard, both of them the same effing CATALYST, FML.
It wasn't hard per say survival-wise, but it just felt like a dps check that my account just couldn't do.
@@heacheysz5644 Dude is locked out of having proper dps-es cause of gacha and you interpret that as "actual strategy"? Man ya'll sometimes really make me feel ashamed of being in the gacha community.
@@altnova6643 There are leaks even before characters release you can look them up and plan on what characters to pull based on their overall value the kits can change but these changes are minor everybody knew Ruan Mei as the first limited 5 star harmony character was going to be OP and she is. Yeah it depends on luck and money but everyone knows that investment is a skill especially for F2P players who need to save currency and once you are done with two proper teams you are safe to pull for the characters and their lightcones based on your likeness for them also allowing more team compositions and the possibility to enjoy the other aspects of the game freely. And I never mentioned explicitly the Gacha System in the previous comment you can look this video "My QingQue broke Honkai: Star Rail..." by Zmm he is using a no wish account and did one of the hardest contents in the game it's a example that this game allows for strategy even using 4 star characters as a DPS so anyone with enough patience could do the latest SU mode with strategy from other people to get Stellar Jades while also clearing some stages in MoC, there's only one extra pull for doing stages 11 & 12 and people will get characters eventually to clear it I am a day one player and a dolphin with less than 100 dollars spent and I have 10 five star characters and I will have 11 with Dr. Ratio in 2nd part of 1.6 and probably 12 with the 5 star standart selector in 2.1 or anything else of equal value that they will give in the anniversary. It's funny how people ask for difficult content that isn't superficial they get it and then they complain about the difficulty there is a skill issue an example is the 2 cycle clear with Himeko done by Gacha Smack in a MoC 10 tournment he also used Jing Yuan spamming basic atk to get SP lol. If you don't like a genre don't play it you can't change reality to fit your desires and Gacha is profitable so it is how it is.
I mean that would have to do with how spiral abyss is just the same thing with more HP and a gimmick, I'm not saying they should make abyss harder, I'm saying that we should've gotten something else to do long ago.
Today Genshin players either don't care about abyss or clear it with so little effort that it isn't even worth talking about, bad game design is what it is, when I started we were asked to kill literal ruin guards, the current abyss has elite enemies with more HP than a whole 1.1 floor combined, we are killing stuff with 5X the hp for the same rewards we got 3 years ago.
But we don't want to generate anxiety they say...
Anxiety my ass, they just are allergic to giving any kind of rewards, I'd be ok with some extra floors just for artifact XP but it's easier to fuck old and new players alike.
HSR is generous because it had to compete with quite many other turn-based gacha games. GI doesn't has that competitiveness. It's the only open world gacha game which isn't a low effort cashgrab (like Tower of Fantasy).
At least it's what i think.
I’ve been waiting for so long for you to upload finally 😭
I don't understand everyone acting like the Genshin community is the villain when everywhere I go (especially UA-cam) you only see HSR players talking shit about Gesnhin without any provocation and making fun of anyone who likes the game
I've seen a lot of genshin player say that Dr ratio is gonna be bad or that hsr is a dying game and that's why they're giving him for free, which is a cope response to try make hsr players feel less happy about a free character and idk if your gonna try an argue that what they're saying isn't an attack or if you just genuinely haven't seen anything from genshin players but 🤷♂️
This guilty trip mentality has gotten on my nerves recently, and to be fair that isn’t not only from the Star Rail community but the whole gaming community as well.
I guess it’s just internet mob mentality at this point.
@@dishysoapss I would be lying if I said that the Genshin community doesn't also have its percentage of toxic players, but the difference is quite big.
Any video that comments on HSR you see that most of the comments are making fun of Genshin
@@Truck-kun11 yeh making fun of the game is fine, most of those people are criticising the game which is a good thing because theyre on your side, they want you guys to get more free stuff too, but i wont disagree that there are also people attacking the players directly but as you said there are toxic players in every community
@@Kizzukun”anime game ew!!!” - them
I think another reason Starrail gives out free 10 pulls each patch is because acquiring gems is a lot more difficult when you don’t have much world exploration like in a game like Genshin. They probably know they can afford giving it out each patch because of that. I don’t play Hsr much anymore these days so I could be wrong :)
but the primos from the world exploration are limited, so at some point you can only farm them only from commisions, abyss and events if there are no quests available
@@Maja-se3hf you’re not wrong, but my point is star rail doesn’t even have the open world exploration in the first place. I’m not talking about late game primo farming, I’m talking about giving players an insensitive to continue playing my providing them with pulls. Start rail doesn’t have as many ways to get gems fast when you want to pull so giving them ten pulls isn’t as much as a sacrifice. I’ve been playing Genshin for 2 and a half years and Liyue still isn’t fully completed, the average player won’t run out so quickly
@@Maja-se3hfalso the amount of primos you get from getting that much chest is laughable
As both a genshin and a star rail player all i have to say is: Genshin is just a game with so much more potencial its just that the devs don't respect the playerbase as much as star rail. Nobody expected Dr. Ratio to be free not even leakers. It just shows that star rail devs are grateful and acknowloding of its fanbase whether it be solving QoL problems according to player feedback. Which genshin just does not do any of that and then goes "oh oh but the players will get anxiety" as the excuse. Genshin's community is quite disgusting in terms of players that think they are the vocal minority even though it seems they are quite the majority having this "Toxic positivity" environment just accepting anything the devs give so the feedback they get is "Everything is all good we are happy" . Shutting down and sending death threats to anyone who dares to speak up for a change in favor of the well-being of genshin.
ALSO GENSHIN COULD NEVER LMAOOOO (Yappatron 3000 ahh comment ik)
@@FrozyTheCube Now can we not just be toxic for a while just enjoy what we have so far.
@@Ilikegames804 genshin rakes in hundreds of millions of dollars every year. Getting some well-deserved criticism won't kill them lmao
Despite all the flaws Genshin have, not many games (definitly NO Gacha Games) comes close to the quality of Genshin. "Toxic positivity" is bad, agree. Toxic Negativity is cringe... just pathetic. Do I want a 5-star? Yes Please! Will I start being Toxic against Mihoyo ´cause I did'nt get a 5-star. Fuck No! THANKS Mihoyo for my Free 5* Ratio in HSR! Cheers!
@@natti8212 tbf a free midhamatra would be cool though
The reality of the situation is that Star Rail is more canonical to the entire Honkai universe. Genshin's it's own thing, and has less importance despite more development which is another reason for the differences. You'll get 1 5-Star per Genshin update due to the fact that the entire world ends up getting an update. It's a truly open-world game with almost seamless transition from area to area, as where Star Rail works off of large areas. With them using assets and working with the copypasta treatment per cell (Area)? That leaves Hoyo with more time for character design, and cutscenes which i gotta admit; feels like Hoyo forgets their budget a lot with Star Rails visual aspects. But, Gotta say. If you don't play Star Rail? Don't feel too left out. Ratio just does damage and creates statues. His skill just gives 25% more of Ratio's own attack. I'd take a decent dendro 4-star in Genshin over Ratio.
People keep saying "you can pull whoever you want in genshin but in hsr you are forced to pull for certain characters" but honestly for me it's the opposite. I don't feel like pulling for hsr characters more because it's not like I can do anything with them outside combat. In genshin I would be tempted to pull because we can do so much like exploration, coop, etc. And yes, meta too just like hsr. Like why would I spend hours on abyss when I can do it in minutes with meta? Also it's not even been a year yet since the game was released so the options are limited. That's just how every game is in early stage
The way genshin devs and hsr devs treat the fanbase is different because the games are different anyway. Hsr gameplay is a little limited compared to genshin so they are more generous with rewards and endgame contents. Genshin on the other hand knows no matter what people will still play the game and spend money even if their own anniversary reward is sheet lol. Maybe if there are more open world game competitors they would be more generous
Sheet this is getting long so here's tldr:
I do love genshin but hsr feels more rewarding 💀 It's like shifting from a toxic yet fun relationship into an average yet healthy one
I quit genshin because of its long grind, I play honkai star rail because the grind I a lot nice
The amount of primos we get from genshin is still far far more than what we get from hsr, the only problem is that u have to play the game more. On top of that, hsr severely lacks content when compared to a way bigger game like genshin, so naturally they have to adapt to stay relevant. The sole fact that genshin started earning more than hsr just when fontaine was in its full swing simple underpins the fact even after 3 years, genshin is still relevant and same as it was earlier. They tried to copy the archon quest as trailblaze missions but couldn't, the single straight story line, on top of it being one of the most interesting stories of gacha games, really proves the point.
Im not disappointed in genshin, I mean free rewards would help but my only problem is the community! I haven't seen a more toxic Gacha game community than genshin's!
If I could name one thing, just one thing Genshin does better than HSR, it would have to be the artifact/relic system
I think this is an experiment for hoyo. Games like HSR inevitably fall off because :
1. Progression becomes difficult/impossible unless you whale or have no life
2. Slowed pace of pulling resources lock f2p players out of the fun of pulling, and the lack of exciting pulling causes people to lose interest over time.
Hoyo tries to solve this by continually ramping up the freebie generosity and keeping the main 'story mode' accessible to casual free players. This being the case, I predict the trend of even bigger and more shocking freebies will come in the future, though we might have to wait a while for the next big hit.
I feel that they cannot keep this up forever and even if #1 and #2 are kept at bay, eventually people are going to lose interest for other reasons, but it will be interesting to see if this can be sustained for another 2 years.
Tbh I had this thought of what if Genshin never existed and honkai star rails released during 2020 instead?
theres probably internal data we don't know about that drives this "generosity." "free" in any gacha game is definitely driven by player retention concerns, profitability concerns, or both, and is a play toward maintaining revenue/MAU. an active player who spends a bit of money each month is worth more in the long run than the irregular player, even if they also spend. and as mentioned in the vid, gameplay matters a lot as well, with hsr being a game that requires four characters in the field of play at all times, unlike genshin, plus elemental weaknesses matter even more for clearing content even at story difficulty. a lot of content in genshin that isn't exploration can be brute forced by a few well built characters
We have player data, active monthly player data.
Before the announcement of a free 5 star, star rail had lost 3.5 million players, and between the months of July to September lost almost 8.5 million players, this is compared to their peak population of 31 million, losing 1 third of your population is crippling specially when the game only released in May, 2 months before they 8.5 million player exodus
Genshin on the other hand hasn't dropped from 60 million active monthly users for months and they stayed above 50 million since around first anniversary.
Genshin has so many active monthly players that if it was a country it would be around the size of france and be the 23rd most populous country in the world.
Genshin can choose not to care because they can tank the hit, Star Rail cant
Genshin is Open world rpg first with gacha element. You dont need to pull everytime to min max the game.
While in hsr its a must to build a lot of character to keep up with the new content, Thats why the gacha in there is a must.
WRONG. Genshin's genre is GACHA. First.
@@evilmiyoho6742 My point is that the gacha come second on genshin because the content doesnt force you to gacha your way thru the game. Thats why I call it open world rpg first, even people who dont know gensin only label it as BOTW copy because its open world rpg.
@@rammonzon534 No. The gacha comes first. It's genshin's genre. Learn how it works.
Gacha does not come second in any gacha. @@rammonzon534
@@evilmiyoho6742it’s a owrpg game with a gacha system in it .
They don’t market themselves as gacha, for obvious reasons but it’s definitely not its main genre, the game has a story you can follow without having to engage in any of the gacha stuff. Even the side stories.
Ratio is so powerfull he brought redflaim back to us,bless him
The playerbase of this 2 game are made up of people who either got introduced to gacha games for the first time, or even to games in general and people who already played other gachas. The free 5* arguments mostly comes from the latter who are so familiar with the other gachas' cycle and way of doing things. Firstly one 5* from FGO does not worth the same as one 5* from genshin development wise and market wise. Its normal for gacha games which usually already starts off with 50+ characters, to give freebies like candies, by their third anni they would tend to already have almost 200+ characters so it makes sense why giving one free 5* (that usually get powercrept the very next month or two) for the sake of player "appreciation" is worth the hypothetical lost in banner sales. The cost of making one new 5*s in those games usually only involves the digital artist (literally JPEG) and some dev for the 2D models in game and most dominantly VAs. Whereas in genshin theres the slightly extra cost for 3D models, but most importantly kit balancing for both meta and open world reasons and their place in the world, taking into account cultures, relationship etc for the design philosophy. These extra things are minor in other gachas but very big in genshin as they would break immersion and continuity otherwise. It's easier to just sprinkle "this character worked in this shop" for a new character's flavor text if said shop never tangibly existed compared to if it does in game.
And for the argument that HSR costs the same for new 5* characters, well to that I say, HSR is exactly the competition for these other gacha games that is relatively cheaper to make so its no wonder theyre doing the same thing as those other gachas, theyre direct competitions. Theyre an autoable turn based gacha games with less emphasis on exploration. Nobody played HSR specifically for its open world but its a nice bonus (just like how it is in Hi3), the real selling point of HSR is the convenience factor just like any other typical gacha games. The wise thing to do here is for other anime open world rpg gachas like Wuthering Waves and ToF to exploit this drama and give free new 5*s there. That would either be a shot in the foot or a brilliant marketing strat depending on the result.
This makes me think about honkai 3rd tbh, which has pretty insane availability in that every 4 star equivalent is made obtainable, and even some new 5 star equivalents, not just super old characters. Yet at the same time honkai 3rd has had power creep issues as far back as Herschel of Sentience outclassing Herrscher of void design wise. While it has been going on for a long time, it feels to me like there has been a struggle to fight that issue, making characters to fit specific niches even if they have to articially create that niche to do so (watch hp coagulation be completely forgotten)
I ain't going back to Star Rail even with a free unit. I am simply flabbergasted how poorly they handled the Luofu TB mission.
Like, Genshin also had this problem in Inazuma but it was nowhere as bad as Luofu's TB mission, where an entire world quest was snuck into the main mission and the solution to fixing that is skipping the whole mission by making the player let go of 80 gems. And Tingyun died off screen. It doesn't matter if she comes back alive in the future or not, her death didn't happen on screen. The body we saw dislocating wasn't hers. That scene would have been so much better if Tingyun's body was found.
On the gameplay's side, they are slowly starting to introduce must pull units to achieve optimal clears, just like they do in HI3. There's a reason why are being generous, because they don't want to drive away the players with the future game difficulty.
Also, their direct competitor Reverse 1999 is doing a 40 pull Christmas+New Year special banner rn where you can pull for 3 bundles of standard 5 stars, out of which you can choose one 5 star unit.
Turn based gacha games got hell of a more competition in the market, compared to a open world game like Genshin. I would love to see how Genshin devs would react when WuWa, Arknights Enfield and Project Mugen get their releases.
most likely they wont even react, unless they do something outrageous even by gacha game standards, because wuwa, at the very least, already seems to be shooting at the pgr players specifically (and pgr is not a competitor to genshin - its competitor to hi3) but also doesnt really look all that interesting, which as i understand is just the problem that dev in particular just has, arknights at... well, arknights, and mugen looks like really weird spiderman game, not to mention that all of them are post-apo or urban setting, which is what TOF was trying to do.... and failed miserably at. so other 3 most likely just gonna have their own kind of niche, with wuwa being more for hardcore players, arknights being for the fans of that game and mugen... idefk what the hell they are trying to do with mugen, tbh.
genshin is, for the most part, an open world game. the required combat is rare and also can be made easier if needed. characters fill a completely different role. rather than being a tool in your toolbox like in star rail, theyre more like different toys to play with.
genshin also, just has vastly more content (even if we're comparing early genshin to current star rail), that hinges much less on the characters you have. it often feels completely alien to the gacha genre because of how little it can care about you getting new characters, and i think thats really refreshing.
Early Genshin had pretty little content tho. And it still has no proper endgame.
@@jakkubusbut it has a lot of world building, lore, story and more large scale exploration which I prefer over End game content.
I will also add that I think GI are for people who like World building, story , exploration, relaxed game and meant to be a more casual game than HSR. I tried HSR but it was too much combat and besides that there is nothing much I can do with limited exploration and alor of story is locked behind hard core combat which I am not a fan of. This lead me to eventually drop the game since I am not a fan of games that are combat oriented and require specific. Characters to proceed. That is one of the main reasons I had a strong distaste of combat oriented gaming and gaming in general until I found GI which is more world building/exploration /story oriented. And combat is a minor thing which I am okay with.
@@nicolasmonty3692
Early Genshin had pretty generic worldbuilding and rather mediocre story tho.
And the exploration aspect was quite unpolished as well back then.
@@jakkubus true the story generic world building but it is interesting to see how the game producer may introduce besides that the design is quite good but the lore brhind/ in the World building is quite interesting to me.
The story is medicore at best currently but I had read Medicare stories before but it ended up being very unique and different style that made it good near tge end or pays off. So because of that I am just curious what the producer will do next in the lore/world building, narrative and exploration . So far GI is meeting 3 major components I look for in a game (lore/world building, {includes character aspects) and until most of these criteria fails my expectations I am sticking to the game but one thing that had ocassionly failed is. The character Story Quests which had been leaving a little dissatisfied but is still not enough to drop the game since other aspects that is still fun , good and enjoyable for me to play.
@@nicolasmonty3692
Sure, but that's irrelevant to the point at hand. The original commenter stated that Genshin has vastly more content, which is simply not true if we look at the 1.X versions of both games.
Genshin could and arguably should get more generous in general. The amount of rewards you're able to obtain from all the various events and gamemodes in HSR, plus a 10 pull every version is simply unmatched and makes it feel fun and rewarding to play. Even after pulling for a character and getting it with 'normal' luck and pity, I'm able to rake up enough for the next character before the new version. Genshin is slowly but steadily bringing frustration with almost no special rewards and events often total a laughable amount of primos.
I understand that the focus and audiences of each game are different, but I'd argue that you're less likely to spend money when you know that even with money spent and considerable effort exerted, you still won't have enough resources to get what you want.
do people actually complain about the lack of free rewards genshin players get? id much rather take the extra content which itakes the form of exploration in genshin as a way of earning primos instead of just logging in and receive a free pull just because theres not many ways of getting currency in a semi open world game.
HSR expects you to take damage. You can be the greatest HSR player in the world but you cannot outrun damage.
GI is different. Even with free characters you can still go all the way to Liyue, Inazuma, Sumeru, Fontaine no damage taken (if you try hard enough).
That's the biggest thing with both games. The developer mentality is different for both.
Thank you for this video! I can now just link this to others. HSR is more generous when it comes to units because we need the units for coverage. Meanwhile Genshin can be played even with anyone you like barring Spiral Abyss.
The same cannot be said with QoL updates tho.
even spiral abyss, depending on the blessing, can be done with 4* units - nay, even on low AR with low leveled characters. not so much with moc because hsr just demands a lot more
as for qol - much easier to add to an empty plate, than to a full one, especially since genshin is a first game of such scope on mobile.
@@SorarikoMotone 4.3 was a QoL patch that added quite a bit. As you said, it is harder to add QoL to an established game over one that was developed using feedback from their previous game. Also, Genshin has been getting QoL. I know they will add more so I'm not going to mald over it. If QoL is the only thing someone needs to trash another game, maybe they didn't like it in the first place, or are just fishing for drama.
@@SorarikoMotone we clearly can't know for sure if it's hard to put better QoL in Genshin, but for what we've already seen they are able to rework their systems for a better QoL.
So they CAN but for the longest time they didn't do it, all those filler patch can be added a QoL one or two.
@@pistonfryya.. what took them 3 years to add those 4.3 qol?? They are clearly capable of doing it during filler patch..
@@pistonfry Assuming the team has always been on full productivity, adding one feature necessarily means that something else won't be (other than probably toggle-able features like Overflowing Mastery). Maybe they only managed to hire more people earlier this year after all the Covid nonsense? Or finally expanded a new office in another province, so finally could expand the team with new hires.
My previous company had these problems working during Covid, so we had to constantly cut/delay a lot of planned features from development. And even if we hire new staff, usually it'll be 3~6 months before they're actually capable of creating something in line with the product vision without supervision, and therefore be an additional contribution to the company.
My point is, there are many possible logistical reasons that is not "Hoyo is stingy" or "Hoyo hates Genshin Impact". In the end though, the situation is what it is. So I feel the simplest way is to not assign these labels, and play the game if you enjoy it. Thinking about "what could have been" is detrimental to our enjoyment because we create expectations that are already failed.
i also agree in that genshin has a 3rd dimensionality to it, not like star rail. i mean, a character can possibly be not limited to their kit design (e.g. thundering fury razor team etc.)
compared to star rail that has strict 'type matchups' in a way (some characters like xueyi breaks this mold but i digress)
its like pokemon, you'd WANT to build a team thats all around and can cover each others weaknesses.
also, sometimes i feel like dr ratio being given was gonna happen regardless if they won or not (like, for reasons of being nominated even)
I don't understand why people are so obsessed with comparing Genshin and HSR. They are COMPLETELY different games. The only point they have in common is their gacha. But this is ridiculous: are you seriously going to play completely different game, only for its gacha? Dude, that's one serious issue with gambling, lemme tell ya.
HSR lacks identity, so it must be compared to it's older brother to stay relevant in the public eye
In short it's because it's the same company that made HI3, GI, and HSR. And out of the 3, GI is _without a doubt_ the least generous, and the one that has the least QoL and listens to the least player feedback.
What people are truly saying is this: "we know you can do better. We've seen it. Now, please, improve Genshin!"
That's it. Some are more toxic, some less, some may want to go back and play GI, some don't, but they'd all want it to BE BETTER. Because it could. If only the GI team wanted it to.
@@djixi98 I certainly have some improvements in my mind they can do to Genshin (and part of these are already done), but I also understand why they are not as active with Genshin than other titles. There are two reasons I can point out right away (possibly there are more, but these two are most obvious).
1) If you look at HSR as game developer, you'll see that ultimately, this game is really simple, programming-wise. Same goes for HI, to less extent, but still. Genshin is a lot more complex game, and thus, more work required to improve the same aspect of the game.
2) Genshin has great retention and re-play value. It offers a lot more gameplay, as compared to other Hoyo games. And it require a lot more work with its assets and events. So at some point, improving the UI just drops to the bottom of the list of all things they need to get done by the next patch.
And giving more rewards is simply not required. I always see too generous rewards as a sign the game simply does not live up to the players expectations, so the devs resort to give freebies to attract people. Remember: it does not cost anything to give you any amount of pulls or in-game items. So I much prefer them working on new regions and game mechanics, than simply giving out a free 5-star I don't know what to do with.
One thing is that hsr is more based of chinese gacha games, I used to play them on my dad's computer. The chinese games aim to grind out characters, thus making more money due to human nature "needing" everything. Furthermore, hsr is like a high reward game, these "rewards" makes you want to play more just for the high rewards. However, genshin I believe is more like a classy gacha game, with less characters, less rewards, more grinding and money spent. Ultimately the difference for genshin and HSR is the audience they cater to. (thank you for listening to my yapping session)
this was a very nice surprise
glad to see you again!! ❤
Genshin is generous if you like exploring and using their map app
Personally I think one (of probably several) reasons why Genshin is less generous is because it has a far larger emphasis of exploration due to its open world nature. Exploration is even encouraged by the fact that Primos and levelling materials can be found that way (even if it is small amounts).
Star Rail’s map design is very limited in comparison and I find that fights are harder to avoid and as a consequence of fighting more the devs probably figure that a greater emphasis on the characters is needed both to have players not get bored so easily and to give players more options as new enemies are put into the game.
On the other hand surprisingly few characters have exploration-oriented abilities in their kits and most of them is pretty underwhelming in that regard. Additionally, Hoyo seems to be ramping up on locking more and more areas behind quests and, if that wasn't enough, the only endgame is strictly a combat challenge.
@@jakkubus It's the reverse. Sumeru is the worst example of locking area behind quests, but they massively reduce it in Fontaine.
Sure buddy everyone has the time to explore for hours and hours to get primogems everybody loves to look up interactive maps, exploring and doing similar puzzles countless times
@@heacheysz5644 Don't get me wrong, I completely agree with you.
I have been playing Genshin for almost two years on an almost daily basis and I still have a lot of stuff that has been on the backlog in Inazuma and Sumeru.
Would I have designed the game that way if I was in charge? No.
But from what I have seen I'd say that was probably the rationale from the devs perspective.
@@ucmanhle9601
They don't really reduce it that much. The locked areas are just far less in-your-face than in Sumeru. Hoyo has just hidden them better.