Genshin’s Leveling System is Weird, Right?
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- Опубліковано 11 чер 2024
- I'm about to level-up and you look like just enough experience, buddy.
Patreon: / kazoocat
TIMESTAMPS:
0:00 Intro
0:57 Why are other Level-Up systems not weird?
2:53 How to get EXP
6:25 What it takes to Level-Up naturally
9:40 Why does Natural EXP exist?
11:10 Does Genshin even need levels?
13:34 Outro
Some footage from:
@Maximilian_Dood: • 5 GOLDEN LETTERS!
@2y0x: • ZY0X MAKES THE ABYSS L...
• Zy0x Explains HOW TO B...
• NEW REGION NEW ZY0X (G...
@GMTK: • The Birth of the Japan...
@thespiffingbrit: • CITIES SKYLINES is A p...
Music used:
Virbank City - Pokemon Black 2 & White 2 (0:06)
Chill - Undertale (1:02)
Flower Shop - Everhood (1:19)
Liyue 1 - Genshin Impact (2:08)
Liyue 2 - Genshin Impact (2:53)
Lustrous Trick - Genshin Impact (3:30)
Life Goes On - Persona 5 (4:20)
Team Star Students Theme - Pokemon Scarlet & Violet (5:34)
Gallery - Pokemon Snap (6:25)
Doing It Right - Mario & Luigi: Bowser's Inside Story (7:06)
Angel's Share - Genshin Impact (7:53)
Candy's Theme - Donkey Kong Jungle Climber (9:40)
Cakes and Ale for the Exiled - Genshin Impact (10:13)
Ronald's Theme (BW2 Remix) - @PascalvandenBos ( • Ronald's Theme - Pokém... ) (12:03) - Ігри
Most modern gacha games have stopped giving unit xp for killing enemies or completing missions. You only ever level up your characters using materials. Genshin was clearly balanced the same way with books being the only way to level up, and at some point they decided to tack on “Natural Xp” to trick non gacha players into thinking the game was reasonably balanced but scaled it so you couldn’t farm levels at a reasonable pace this way. There is zero doubt in my mind that the level system is exactly as weird as Mihoyo wants it to be or at least mostly intentionally screwy.
I wanna add as an HSR player. Mobs there give substantially more xp overall. (100k for a full world wipe - about 3 hours of gameplay, 1 hour of actual thinking, so put on a movie on the side)
For new players being able to naturally level up characters is really important at very start of the game, but this is still good reasoning as to why they don't just disable it after the first or second ascension.
@@Ggigothydra And its still not worth it. These games aren't made to grind out the overworld, its just something to do when bored.
@@danielcarrilho5217its even worse in HSR because you get the materials from so many other ways, expeditions, farming su, farming relics, which makes exploring the overworld to farm enemies literally completely pointless and more of a nuisance and a waste of time
@@Ggigothydra i can assure you it makes no difference. ive been grinding with a lvl 70 lynx for the past week. still lvl 70.
"You ever level up in Genshin?" Man, I dunno, I've been AR60 for long enough to forget how it's like to level up.
same, i’m not even AR60 but after AR55ish it feels like it takes foreverrrr to level up
@anickaaaaa 56 here, it takes a stupid amount of time and exp to go up
@@anickaaaaaYep, I’m 57 and I think I took a year from 55 to here lol
@@withercat1801 fr, my exp bar is not even halfway and i got to 56 like a month ago
I just hit 59 after being 58 for a year.
An interesting thing that comes out of the book/material based level up system is that a lot of player will pre-farm the materials for a character weeks before the character actually is obtained, spending hours level grinding for a character that doesn't exist yet with other characters on the account. Literally the opposite of most games where you grind with the character themselves after you obtain them.
it’s surprisingly easy to grind enough materials to max level, triple crown, r5 max level weapon, and god artifacts the second you get the character
Stupid question, but that doesn't exist in other RPG games...?
@@_bridgette305No not really. Genshin is very unique in that regard.
@@islipperyslime9072 No??
@@_bridgette305 genshin is a gacha first then an rpg (like most gachas)
At first I didn't like it but as an endgame player it is nice to just plop books into a new character to go from level 1 to 90
Yep
best way to do it is to have both. older players can quickly lvl up their new characters will all the resources they have while new players can still lvl up through natural xp since they don’t have as much resources
What exactly is endgame?
@@elylioney6390 idk whenever you get lvl 90 i think. Or finished all archon quests
@@elylioney6390 Genshin's endgame is playing other games. Cause there's little to nothing to do.
You know why Genshin did this? Because at the start of the game until the 1.2 Dragonspine expansion, they tried to lean into the traditional aspects of RPG games. Leveling, crafting, cooking, quests, finding cool items in the open world, reputation system. But after that it seems they ditched trying to make an open world action RPG and instead focused on characters, story and laidback casual events and interactions. Likely because that’s when they realized the type of players playing the game were mostly casual previously non-gamers.
it's also a heavily Wuxia inspired game, and that's just how you do things since you can only do so much through practical training and application. Eventually you have to start literally devouring other people's knowledge and experiences.
I feel like Genshin has always felt like a game designed in parts rather than in whole. The leveling, exploration, story, events and miscellaneous mechanics like TCG and Teapot really felt like they were made by different departments, then stitched together right towards the end. It’s a double-edged sword really. On one hand players who like one aspect of gameplay can focus on that without being bogged down by other things (I myself mainly enjoy open-world exploration and leave the story quests for last). On the other hand, you end up with redundant systems like these basically everywhere in the game
@@LoveYourself-318 What I’m saying is that how the leveling system was initially designed was probably, use the character, they level up. But was changed later on in development. But they kept a little bit of the old way in the game for some reason. This being all things that happened before the release of the game. I know it’s not exactly what I said earlier, but I was implying it.
@@Melotaku Not really. 1.0 had the first act of Liyue if I recall correctly with the last major source of EXP being act 2 of mond.
@@adamn7409a lot of the game is bad, but it has one of the best fishing minigames I’ve ever played
When I pulled Childe in October of 2021, I decided he was not allowed to have any exp books until he earned them himself, wading through the waters of combat until he finally reached level 20. It wasn't as if I needed him for my main team at that point, because I was solidly a Yoimiya main; as long as I had Zhongli, Xingqiu, Yoimiya, and a flex slot for puzzles (which eventually just turned into Albedo's seat when I pulled him next patch), my overworld team had whatever it needed. So Childe was my toy, and toy with him I did. While I used him quite a bit, he was not in my party most of the time. It took me about four months to get him to level 20! Four months of grueling training. And then finally, when he hit level 20, he was rewarded with an ascension to 80 right away. It was a lot of fun. I'm never doing it again.
what did he do to you
i like how u think
we love to see an organically raised childe
Childe abuse
I’m calling CPS
just wanted to say that 14 weeks is not more than a year :) 8:46
looking for this comment
I have no idea how he got that, how is it even possible to mess that up. That's nearly one week per month.
@@brokendoop He confused weeks and months I guess
@@brokendoop because he's human and he isn't perfect
In the editing process it shouldnt have been missed, maybe he means in terms of regular grinding vs raw necessitated time?
5 days of gameplay is 24 x 5 hours, 120 hours is reasonably done over the course of a month give or take
7:11 Since the first 3 Weekly bosses you fight have their Resin cost reduced by half, it ends up costing you 90, and not 120 Resin.
In addition, Genshin's Weekly bosses do not work in the same way as Star Rail's. In Genshin, you can fight the rest of the Weekly bosses that you didn't fight at half the Resin cost, and each one will cost you 60 Resin.
In the end, you can spend 90 (30x3) + 360 (60x6) = 450 Resin on Weekly bosses in a single week. This will leave you with enough Resin for 20 more bosses in the week.
In conclusion, this makes the final amount of Exp you can get from using Resin per week equal to 5,244 - 7,600.
And this only if accumulated Resin is calculated ? Or you include Resin given from Teapot, BP and Events ?
wait what, you can fight genshin bosses more than 3x???
@@nightowlowo149 If you mean Weekly bosses, then you can fight one boss once per week, all of them, first 3 will cost 30 Resin and every next one 60.
@@nightowlowo149 oh god don't tell me you only fight 3 of the weekly bosses and then stop?
@@co7769 oopsie hehe
this wouldve saved me waiting weeks just to level up a single talent
If you kill every fungi with electro/pyro on the map, you can get 20k exp, which is the same as the purple books. The only reason I know this is because I did it while leveling up Zhongli. I resorted to books pretty quickly, though.
:o do activated fungi count as elite enemies?
EVERY fungi?!
if they put every enemy in the game in an abyss-like room i'd glady kill them all daily, but walking around finding each one, oh god. no.
i had monster routes that i did for fun in coop while chatting but it was only in the places with the densest elite population
Most RPGs have characters passively gaining levels through battles. However, this runs into the problem that new characters are under-leveled - and forcing you to use half built characters in battle can be frustrating. This is a minor problem in games where there are only a few characters, but Genshin has a lot of them. As such, Genshin starts with letting characters passively gain levels so that new players feel familiar with the system before slowly introducing them the actual way to level up with EXP books, which lets the player actively control which character gets to level up. In my opinion, this solution is a lot more elegant than Pokemon's EXP share.
True
So instead of exp share you just use rare candies
And books aren't hard to come by, I feel like they take less time than most games to level characters. Chests, ley lines, teapot, daily commissions. Once you play long sno6and have a mature account you have a surplus of books and mora.
The rest is really artifacts, talent material, and ascension material. Not to say that these are just a little extra, it's like half or more of your character setup. But the character xp level is insignificant at least
@@Jaker788 This is actually the problem.
Leveling up is meaningless, it's just another grind to do, it doesn't feel rewarding at all.
@@howdyimflowey4341 exactly. giving paper for a character to eat skips all the fun in watching them grow strong AND leaves you with nothing to do. it's just a stupid system.
Yet another banger from KazooCat. I leveled up my Zhongli to level 80 when i first got him in April of 2021. After that I wanted to see how long it would take me to get him to level 90 naturally from level 80. He has been on most of my teams when I play and he is only level 82. He is 184073 EXP out of 243025 so im hoping to get him to level 83 by the end of the year. So getting him to level 90 might take a decade at this rate.
Bro just dont level up zhongli to 90 it is sooo unnecessary.
My ganyu is level 84, near to 85 and I only leveled her to 80 using books. She has been on basically every team I play for the overworld, since version 1.2
@@crunchygowon6474 he scales off hp though so he's one of the few i level to 90 along with bennett
I don't level my characters past 80 either! Xingqiu is almost 82; Kazuha, Yoimiya, and Ayato are 81; and Kaeya is almost 81 as well. It's honestly a lot of fun for me to track characters' overworld usage through their exp. I'm not putting any effort into leveling them up either! I figure, if I can 36* Spiral Abyss without leveling them, why not have some fun with it?
Oh hey xD
I'm doing the same with Sucrose. Level 81, almost halfway to level 82. In fifty years she'll get to lvl 90, lol. (but tbh, I mostly do this to all my characters so I can feel like I'm achieving something when I'm just casually playing)
Well for me it's an upgrade from having to kill tens of thousands of mobs for months in the old MMORPGs of the late 2000s/early 2010s.
Yea, but also in those old MMORPGs you play one character and do not get new one once per month or two....
@@Xelluse you'd have multiple classes in said games, so having more than one character wasn't something unusual
@@grigoryp.7366 Yea, but this is still only couple of classes and that's still one character, but in games like Genshin we are talking about 83 characters already, ok, not everyone will get all but even 60, this is still much, MUCH more than nubmer of classes any MMO have....
@@Xelluse last server i played ragnarok online (the original) i had 48 characters.
but here's the thing: it was a 20x rate server and i throughly enjoyed the process of leveling up, mostly because the game did not put artificial xp penalties or gates. you could go kill a super strong monster as a lvl 1 and if you did it, jump straight to level 65
@@GraveUypo "it was a 20x rate server" 🤷♂
I left my Xinqiu lv88 for like to years and some random day he ascended to lv89 lol, pretty surprised cus I used to play him quite a lot in my weird Ayaka team. One of the most epic moments I've ever had with Genshin i swear
it's not a huge difference in the general idea, but activated and scorched fungus do give 60 exp which makes them efficient to farm if you're insane and want to level your characters naturally
dang i should try this with my next 5*
That makes sense, because their special drops are exclusively used for weapons, just like any other *elite enemies.* Which I guess makes them elite enemies.
i always ignore the leyline exp unless there is double drop rate event (3 runs a day)
i got 2600 purple books, i got all of those from events, quest, exploration, and teapot (20 books a week)
there is no point doing leyline for book, better for artifact or talent/ascension.
I mean, I get where you're coming from, but that's only enough to get about 15 characters from level 80 to level 90, or about 10 characters from 1 to 80. And with 79 characters in the game now, that's practically nothing
@@kuraresacupcakes who told you to build all of characters, are u insane. just build your meta character for abyss, and your favorite characters for having fun.
Nice to know. I still want to accomplish the 800 ley lines, so I guess I'll focus mainly on mora, and farm exp at my discretion
@@rottuce5735because for some people it ends up being boring playing the same built characters over and over?
Anyway, as someone who's levelled everyone to at least lvl 70 for the fates and also levelled most characters' talents... I can only say I've done it over the course of 3 years hehe
However, exp leylines is something I sometimes farm, especially if I get a new character and am running low on books. The ley line I ignore most of the time (it's mostly an observation and comparison with the op) is the mora leyline. Events and, very rarely, local sigil shops have enough mora for me to stick around with 7-8 mil rn
@@rottuce5735 When you put it that way... I guess I am insane. 67 of my 68 characters are at level 90, and I'm currently working on getting all their talents to 7/7/7. Once I've done that, I'll farm some artifacts before working on getting everyone's talents to 8/8/8.
This wasn't a surprise seeing as I played other gacha games before. The level up material farm is a relatively normal mechanic in those games.
The main level up system exists a bit as a time gate with resin in order to make sure you dont get too powerful too fast. In the early game with mondstat and even some liyue you can get by without getting books via events/flowers to help new players not have to juggle as much as quickly.
when i came back to my old account, i never felt that. i get more mora timegate than exp because exp books are abundance in chests
Adventure Rank does that with its level caps, NOT the regular character level system.
@GraveUypo no, at that point when your hitting levels caps you aren't leveling from taking down mobs anymore. Talking like early mondstat in the below 20 range
Remove levels and instead being tied to a skill tree could also work. You would still end up needing to unlock the branches of the tree so you'd need boss materials and region items. Star Rail already has this system, basically having this weird double upgrades needed to level a character, normal levels and a skill tree.
This video is a sole reason i learned about holding a + button lets you add 10 xp books. Ar 60, playing for almost 3 years.
That's neat, but auto add exists.
@@AlexanderVonMalachiDidn't use to for 3 years
Yes, being relegated to books for levels does make the grind for them a daily thing, whether it be completing events, farming the leylines, or chest scavenging. Initial level-ups are very much a dopamine thing + convenient cheesey method to fully restore HP. (I don't know if this is still a thing, but leveling up did this as long as the character was still alive and was in your party).
I guess there is also the facet that when using purely books, you will have some EXP overflow that can't be refunded.
How it becomes daily thing or even a grind ? Have 71 characters from 83 and never experienced problem in getting enough books to level them up (all are maxed btw), dunno how player should play a game to have that much of a problem that books become daily thing or a grind... they literally drop from every crap player does....
@@Xelluse Uh...good for you??? I guess you've been a longtime player or a whale then, because you can just accumulate them through events and stuff. Tho arguably that is also grinding.
@@beedrillfanatic5933 Only thing I paid in game is Welkin, also you physically can't buy that much of books to make "Daily thing" and "grind", as you called it, into something that will make me able to fully upgrade all 71 character I have to max level and to have over 2k books left in inventory...
All I hear for now It’s a poor workman who blames his tools....
You physically can't grind Events.
@@Xelluse I'm guessing you are definitely a long time player if you have 2k (purple??? red???) books and maxed characters, given that there are a lot of ways you can accumulate them over time if you do the battlepass and events, and have finished all the world quests. I guess you could also be buying out the teapot shop as well??? Still tho, new players or ones that play the game on and off may still be hardpressed for books, especially if they want to raise a new character quickly. This also doesn't account for the amount of mora it takes to max character levels/talents/weapons on top of the EXP materials, so I don't know if I really believe you have truly maxed everyone.
In the end, the design of Genshin invariably makes it so that you have to commit time to farming resources, regardless of your player status. That was what I was mainly trying to say.
Edit: Also no one's blaming anything??? I can't really fault Genshin's "tools" for players to get resources. I guess I came off as whiny somehow, but I assure you I'm not.
@@beedrillfanatic5933 Hero Wits (s.c. Purple).
This is game's content, if you do not do exploration, events, quests and therefore BP is done automatically, even if you do not want to, then why the fk you are even playing then, nothing more left, game is literally about Questing, Exploring and doing Events.
Yes, I'm playing since from release and leveled up 71 characters and of course if someone is new player and he want to upgrade the same amount of character 3 year experience player have, then he would need time to do that, time played in any game is accumulated in amount of done content, therefore in more thing obtained....
Even by using every possible way you can't simply spend over 30 minutes of focused farming daily, events are one time only, BP is just doing itself while you play the game, Teapot simply is one time enter per week and requires couple of seconds, leylines take only couple of second to complete and Resin simply is a stop wall from grinding even if you want to grind, you simply unable to, so all is left is Exploration and story in an Narrativelly-Immersive Exploration game, so even if you want to, you are unable to spend a lot of time to focus farm on books, the problem may be days required to do that, but even this is not a problem, cos Genshin is not an MMO where you need to rush and rushing in Immersive Adventure is kinda weird, why playing then at all ?... For Abyss ? You need only 2 teams there and you will spend much more time in obtaining Artifacts rather than books... in Open world ? you do not need much to oneshot everything there and if you are ignoring Adventure, then you ignoring the Open World too, so that's kinda weird to even complain about books then.....
The minimal exp drops from enemies is weird but I do like that it's there. Let's you save a little bit here and there by idk, levelling a character to a bit under 80 and just letting them get there passively.
Getting rid of the level system might be nice, it just makes me wonder how much would go into reworking game mechanics. The way transformative reactions work for example.
Getting rid of the leveling system would be a horrible choice when soo many things rely on it. The leveling system is a good game design.
I havent watched the video yet but im gonna say this.
The XP thingy for early game is good because we dont need to waste 15 minutes on ley lines and just explore or do the story, then in late and endgame it just became useless. But farming for a character is not even that hard, it just time or steal other peoples materials, and we can even let them at lvl 60 or 70 if the character just doesnt need levels for whatever reason and then farm for our beloved 50 c.v artifacts.
I hope and my mind gets exploded by some mind blowing info or things that just the Genshin Impact Dev Team knows :clueless: :clueless:
everyone would default to lvl 90 stats, nothing would change in the transformative reactions or anything like other than having to waste resources upgrading a character.
@@GraveUypo The resource thing is a big factor, which is why I mentioned it.
The only character stats transformative reactions base themselves off are lvl and EM. By getting rid of levels, transformative reactions become even more accessible than they were before. Right now, we at least have some semblance of balance with how much the reactions rely on levels.
You smoking something? Like what gives you the really good idea to remove THE core aspect of literally every RPG game (and most games really).
I think either level-up system works in its context. Natural level-up is good for a small group progressing through a story. Consumables for level-up works best building up a character at any point in the game.
I actually tracked my progress of leveling my Wanderer from 89 to 90 by killing Elites somewhat near teleporters. There are actually quite a lot of them if you know their locations. It took about 51 days. I did not clear every elite. Just mostly the huge guys or if there were many in close proximity to each other.
I also found that exp distribution inconsistent in distribution for some reason even though it is supposed to be evenly split. My Wanderer seemed to gain exp faster even though I used the same team mate the entire time. My Bennett was forever glued to Wanderer and they both started out 89.
I don't mind the books necessarily, but I agree with the enemy exp being way too negligible. Also, most day 1 players probably have way too many books, but I'm someone who's trying to lv all my characters to lv 90 so I'm always low 😅
I do appreciate that new characters, when pulled, can immediately be brought to lv 90 (if I managed to preform them fully) I like to immediately throw them into a team and go ham. So in that regard not having to level them organically is great :)
I just wish that bringing them from lv 81 to 90 didn't take 600k mora...
Taking a character to lvl 81 to 90 is a waste. It is only good in very niche situations.
@loreyxillumina I can't care less. I've been playing since day 1, it gives me something to do. I also have all my characters at talent level 9/9/9 or higher regardless of amount of use. Once I get them all to level 90 which shouldn't take much longer now, I'll be tweaking their artifact sets. I love trying odd teams and switching up who I use after all.
@@lynn9265 then why complain about the mora -_-
@@loreyxillumina it depends on the character actually, but most of the time its just lvl 90 or lvl 60/70 characters, some of them are good to max level and others if you level up them... youre trolling
Or just want to level them bcz there isnt anything in the game to do
Part of it is the lore as well. One of the things you need to know about the setting is that memories and experience are tangible things, and the traveler extracting them from the Ley Lines is a way to quite literally transfer that experience to new characters.
yeah but like. i think the chicken came before the egg in this case
It always made sense to me so I never really questioned it ig..? I guess they knew that players would get bored of leveling up characters when there was too many characters to use
Tbh I think it makes a lot of sense for enemies and quests to give exp, like those paper things you use to level up are canonically the notes of various adventurers or smth like that. Which is also why you get them from leylines since those store and transfer information and memories.
It only makes sense that doing the things those adventurers would be doing i.e. killing enemies or doing quests would also give exp.
Although factually I agree with something I saw someone else comment, which is that it is that way to make new players think leveling through playing the game is a viable thing to do.
i did an experiment in game, my Raiden was level 80 (not ascended) so, when the chasm was released, i made her ascend to the last tier but i didn't use books on her.
i wanted to see how long it would take to level up naturally.
Now, for reference, i've been using roughly the same team since inazuma released :Ayaka, Zhongly, Raiden, Venti. then i swapped Ayaka for Nahida when she was released.
I've used Raiden non stop in every event, in every quest, every daily, EVERYTHING for TWO YEARS, want to know what level my Raiden is?
Level 81 and a half.
i am NOT joking
I do still use exp from fighting enemies, even at high levels. I don't like to cap out on xp with books, because if feels like a waste, and the higher levels are so costly that I don't spend books on them beyond level 79. So for all my characters I've always brought them close to the assension levels with books, and then just farm mobs to get them levelled up. And everything above level 79 I let progress naturally through exploring and fighting enemies. It doesn't matter much anyway.
I'm still a fairly new player though, and part of the reason I do this is because I never have enough levelling books for all my characters, so I avoid spending the large amount of books that are needed at the higher levels. Once I have most characters at a good level, I might change my strategy.
Why gacha game use materials to level up and not use natural xp? There is only 1 reason, people will find ways to xp (auto) farm their way to max level cap to 90, 99, or 100, etc.
My guess would be that the enemy xp was just there so that players that literally just started the game wouldn’t be doing the first quests while level 1 because they don’t know how to use xp books
Very informative video about something I never really thought much of lol
Mob XPs are for when you're on the 9th level, out of Green Books, and a Blue would be mostly wasted
I'll never forget getting my world level higher and spending a week getting recked in every single zone while desperately farming relic domains trying to get my characters a little bit stronger and then realizing you can actually lower it back down if needed...
I recall trying to level up someone, Itto iirc, through battle cause I didn’t have many exp books. Fighting level 70 enemies with a level 15 character not only felt hard as hell, but after 3 days of casual gaming, I didn’t level up once. Now I know why.
Then there’s players like MistahFeet doing level 1 runs and dreading when mandatory quests diminishes his list of characters he can still use, lol
there actually is a exp limit from natrually killing enemys in the overworld. not really documented, infact to the point i got issue finding the exact numbers again, but i think its linked to how things like elite enemys have drop limits on items is 400 kills.
i leave most of my chars at lvl 89/90(i got only 2 lvl 90, noelle and albedo since def scaling), as to why, mostly just to not really need to waste so many books to get less then a 1% dmg increase with the obserdly long potentiol of actually lvling them up from other methods. i have yet to get a char that i left at 89 to hit that 90, zhongli is probably the closest example i have and hes last i checked 70% of the way there.
anyways even if they were to take out lvls, they would have to decouple so many back end systems that i know even sumwhat knowledgeable people dont even know. enemy def is calced by lvl, attacker in dmg calc is based on lvl to decreases def effectiveness to the point def is a glorified lvl scaling because of this, transformitive and aditive EM stuff also gets changed, but that one isnt hard.
really, I've forgotten about the natural leveling system, I remember leaving my xiao and raiden at 89 so they could level naturally from that point but at some point I forgot about the system itself, I stopped playing with characters that aren't built
You can farm 400 Elites a day which give about 58-60 XP at highest World Level. So, if you farmed those every day. Taking into account that XP applieas to all characters in party, you can take 4 characters from Lv 80 to 90 in 21 weeks.
one thing I have always hated is the abundance of weapon leveling materials and complete lack of the good xp books for characters in most chests. The best source is events and even the average event probably only gives up to 30 books which is not a lot if you want to level a character past 40. But one thing I prefer is the open world and being able to dodge and stuff so there is a little of a player skill aspect. Like yeah I killed the geovishap with a level 40 yanfei and it took 15 minutes but I didn't die once because you can move. However with say honkai star rail you can not get away with not leveling every aspect of your characters or you will die because there isn't really a skill aspect.
I've always thought Genshin is the type of game that would benefit from Ascension Quests, where you have to complete a certain quest specific to that character to unlock more of their abilities or let them level up further. Obviously that's a lot of work to design the quests but given most characters have story quests or hangouts I don't think its unreasonable. You could say every character has 2 quests, one for each ascension passive: their first quest is just a bit of character dialogue that leads you to fight the bosses which currently provide ascension materials, while the second quest is a more involved way of getting to know the character akin to one branch of a hangout, which maybe also ends in a boss just to add a bit of challenge so you can't just skip through all the dialogue and get the 2nd ascension passive for free.
You actually gave me idea, what to suggest to their monthly survey. Hopefully they wanna listen this time since there news about level to 100
I got too lazy farming books for venti at a certain point (oh the irony as I sit at 60 characters max leveled), and so had him naturally collect xp from level 88 to 89. It took around a year of using him just in a normal genshin playthrough -rarely removing him off the team. I've not played every day, but a month or so difference is alright. Now, he's 3/5ths to level 90, and same deal. The natural xp system is best enjoyed with characters you use often in the overworld ig lol since 89 to 90 isn't a big dps increase ig lol
Love It when you upload Kazoo
I just use the purple books you can buy from the teapot weekly, along with ones from the battlepass. Never really struggled with levelling up characters in the end-game. Its prob a pain in the ass early-game to mid-game though
I level characters to 89 and leave them to it. I only have 1 level 90 because the auto add had just come out and I forgot to subtract.
The highest are *halfway* to level 90. With characters I've been playing with for over a year now. Yup.
Me and my friends did “no books” for a year at least, and it is unimaginably gruesomely slow. That said, it’s been nearly a year since I played Genshin now…
Ascension talents are also very weird. They (mostly) provide a general buff to stats and skills (which can be implemented into the skill itself), but in other games you can change which talents your character has, which is, in my understanding, the core thing of a "talent" mechanic. I wish we could do the same in Genshin, where you can swap these talents between characters you own. I would love to put Diluc's useless talent on Keqing since she uses charged attacks way more often.
It takes less time to hit AR60 than hitting level 90 without XP pages
first video I've watched of yours and i wont lie, i quite like it :D
One use i know people make out of the terrible natural exp is grinding the last bit of exp needed to level up characters so they dont waste papers. other than that i dont see another use.
i feel like, how you said at one point in the video, the exp should scale with your level and the enemy's level. i think it'd promote exploration more, in the same way papers do but make it feel more natural? maybe the papers could stay as well for those who dont want to/dont have time to explore.
Books are here to use exp where you want to apply to a character that you choose and the amount of exp.
From Ganyu's release to when I quit around slightly after Sumeru release, she leveled up from Lv88 to Lv89 and a tiny bit
This has been on my mind a lot the last year, as a majority of my resin has gone to leveling up every single unit I own (only missing nine five stars 😭), and even with about a year of grinding for books, mora, boss drops, and more, all of my units JUST now hit 81. Lots of resin refreshing as well, so it’s not even close to how long it would take for an F2P to attempt something like that. The leveling system definitely needs some changes of some kind.
I use my Beidou in a team to level up all new characters to Level 20 passively, after that only books. Also, a very weird thing, that that neat little passive talent of Beidou is nowhere mentioned at all? But then she never got a character video trailer or miscellaneous clip from Mihoyo either.
I leveled a couple of characters from 82-3 or something to lvl90 but it took a year, I just had a main group with Kazuha and I basically swirled groups of enemies a lot when I came across them while in the overworld, Hilichurls and Slimes.
Sometime early in my genshin journey, back before version 2 I had a crazy thought of lvling a character completely through grinding. I chose Beidou and after what I remember being like a month got her to lvl 20 from lvl 1 and immediately gave up on my goal. It was a crazy grind at the time and even now at AR60 I don't ever see myself trying that again. Now I have worse tasks I've given myself in game
This is why I started a second account lmao. On the first I started in 4.0 and got Bennett through the event along with Xingqiu in standard, not knowing how great it was, able to essentially run traveller national team while disappointed I didn't get a 5 star (not knowing I already had the secret 6 star and true pyro archon). When I started the second account without Bennett for the early start and Fischl instead, playstyle was completely different as I paired her with Amber and focused on long range. I really do feel like aside from completionists, you really only spend money rather than start a new account for the convenience of not doing a new account all over again (achievements and all)
I played a few mobile games in my time and some of the earlier ones (~2010 - 2014) usually didn't have "Character EXP Materials" on release. These items were mostly introduced later in the lifetime of these games as character catch up mechanics: If you have a game where day 1 players have a roster of units already maxed out, you need to give them some way to bring up new characters you release up to the powerlevel of the stuff you already own. You usually give the players "EXP Grind" Dungeons for their daily energy sink to level up new characters but after some time all devs realise that doing this for the 2000th time whenever you obtain a single new unit this gets very dull very quickly.
So they introduce these "EXP Materials" to allow players to bring new characters up to snuff. The issue is that most new Gacha games ... kind of forgot that there was this grace period from release of the game to the state these games are now in where this mechanic didn't exist. So by now they just go ahead with "Well all Gacha games we play day in day out have EXP materials so our game needs to have them too!" - it has simply become part of the genre. I was very perplexed when I started Genshin that I got these books everywhere and I think I played the first one or two weeks without using them because I thought "well maybe these are supposed to be catch-up items for characters later" ... but no ... once I clicked the "use" button on these books I realised that their value far far far outscales any grind one is able to perform manually. It is a sad time we live in.
their love for making people have to lose days to build a character has made them gain much less then they could
theory ... maybe they keep giving exp through ennemies so that we are encouraged to go kill some of them instead of "wasting" a few exp when very close to the asention level. This is a trick that is very similar to the fear of missing out they play with to keep us on the game.
The thing is that canonically there are only Traveller and Paimon (if character is not considered to be there by quest, but then it stands there or is marked - Trial), so whole this Party thing is just a game convention by itself...
Because I hate the fact that progression halts at lvl 90, I made it so I leveled up naturally from 89 to 90. Since I feel like anything other than that is too much work... it's been a long journey I'll say that much.
But at least, it doesn't feel entirely worthless to kill enemies
i always level up naturally for a little with a character i plan on raising. then theres ganyu who has only been leveled from killing stuff while exploring (still only one ascension). i leave my characters at a non maxed level for their bracket so i can see how much ive used them
Remembered early game i struggled since i was out of the books..now i got multiple built chars and if i dont wanna do artifacts, id do leylines..i still have like 800 when arle was released
I laughed so hard at all the hilichurls together 😭😂
The reason probably for why the natural Xp system even exist in mondstat area is probably due to the fact you cant really get more characters (besides the freebies *not barbara*) until Ar 10 when the wish feature unlocks. Also theres only a finite amount of chests in each area. Yeah some sdont give anything and aome are for quests but they don't count to the total 100% of each area they are in (surprisingly enough) but they probably went to book route for Xp because its easier and most of the time especially if you dont try to immediately level everyone up like crazy on the first day it ends up building up on the books and makes it easier down the road. Is it bad? Not really but it could be somewhat better. Like if you never seen the rate for the world level changes theres not really a reason to go beyond world level 5 either because despite it says rewards increase and enemies get tougher, your only looking at a 0.1 to about 2% drop increase, the chests also dont actually change at all despite ot says that increases as well, and enemies become glorified sponges.
In the early levels, natural EXP gain can help you inch out a level or two when you're out of resources.
I don't even remember leveling up from monster exp at low levels but what I did was, when I was executing my plan of leveling up every character to 90, I would stop each of them right after 89 and then I would use these characters to farm Mora by killing all 500-mora dropping elites I could find in the map, plus their companions. And that way, despite the monster exp being quite low, I managed to get about 10 characters all the way from 89 to 90 purely on monster exp.
I stopped doing that when I ran out of characters to level up, then I leveled up the rest to 90 using books. But I do remember that leveling up using monster exp, albeit slow, is very possible.
This could be a challenge or sm, only leveling up through fighting bosses and quests
Imagine a challenge where you have to use exp books immediately on the characters you used to gain them, as a much more doable alternative to natural level up
Makes sense from a lore perspective. Realistically to go from a basic fighter to the strongest fighter you can be it would take decades. The books contain magical knowledge greatly enhancing the ability to grow.
Great vid! IMO it doesn't make sense when compared to other games, but in its own way it does. It's a goofy system but you do have the choice to not level a character and keep the game challenging, and being able to level weapons up instead is pretty neat. I'm at world lvl 5 and none of my characters are above lvl 40. I can still experiment with new characters without things being super lopsided, and quests are still pretty easy.
AR60 since last year and i still hv some of my characters lvl up naturally from doing domains and comms. By some i mean the same characters ive been using every day for 2 years that i had raised to lvl 80. My bennett was one of those chasacters and hes currently at 84.
theoretically, you'd get a better resin-to-exp ratio by doing every weekly boss rather than just the three half-cost ones, as normal bosses cost 2/3 the resin of full-cost weekly bosses while only giving 1/2 the potential exp
as of the release of fontaine's second weekly boss in 4.6, this also allows the entire resin allowance per week to be spent, as opposed to leaving behind an unusably small remainder
of course, this is useless in practice unless you're insane
I never thought there would be a discussion about leveling a character with a single button
Honestly genshin should give more exp per enemy, not like thousands more but a 10x multiplier at level 90 would be highly appreciated (100 exp per hilichurl would be very good) , it would encourage to play more over world
Or they could add a resin based item that multiplies exp gained by overworld enemies x50 for a limited amount of time , that way you could level up by playing but genshin wouldn’t lose resin usage
You know what, i got Zhongli in his last day debut banner (22/12/2020) and maybe take 2 weeks to upgrade to 80/90 and never upgrade exp again.
And since Zhongli is the most used before sumeru(not always) when exploring.
Now he's at level 83 with 37k/273k exp and recently using him with Navia
It has a little sense, if u have a fav team on the overworld doing quest wont put all the exp on the team that have most likely been lvl up to max which allows u to distribute the exp on other characters
The inspiration for this kinda system is xianxia stories(it's a Chinese game) in which a character levels up through cultivation and not actual experience.
A cultivator could chug elixers and pills and read a bunch of martial arts manuels to further their cultivation. (Ascension material and exp books)
Plus wear a bunch of equipment with different qualities or rarities to increase their power even more. (Weapons and artefacts)
Are you 100% sure about that? Do you have a source? Because this sort of system is nearly universal in gacha
The same question as secaleohsrevlis.
I tried to find this game in Chinese and English and found nothing like it. "Xianxia" is a genre of cultivator stories, not a game.
@@iosis9324when I said it's a Chinese game I meant genshin is a Chinese game
@@secaleohsrevlis2039Do I need to have a source? It's just my opinion built on reading a bunch of manhua
@@Ekamin1 Oh, now I get it. Well, I don't think it's inspired by this, as that person already said, this is a Japanese gacha system that has existed for quite a long time, and the connection that you said is very stretched, it also doesn't look like mihoyo are big fans of xianxia, they mostly just mock this genre in their games. And in all their games, there is much more inspiration from Japanese gacha games and anime, to the point that not everyone will immediately understand that the creators of their games are Chinese. Their company, namely the founders of their company all otaku, even their slogan says so.
Then every time you get a new character you will be forced to go and kill monsters for xp, every new character 4 star or/and 5 star, but with such system you can prefarm the items to upgrade and level up character almost immediately, only problem is to farm new bosses that may have required items for new released character, but this take only couple of minutes to do.
You could say my Arlecchino is already lvl90:)
Has anybody seen those videos where a person “organically” leveled up their Alhaithem through fighting bosses
As a wrio main I'm entertained by this video
When I first played genshin I didn't realize xp books were a thing so I just spent all of my time (and when I say all, I mean all. I would even forget to eat) around half a year leveling up my party the good old traditional way up to lvl 40, the only reason I didn't get a higher level was because of how long it took me to discover the ascension system. If there was one good thing about all this tortuos grinding time is that to this day I still got plenty of slime, masks and so, so, soooooo much whopperflower nectar from back then that I almost never need to bother with those parts of the ascension.
I have a couple characters I use a lot in over world go from lvl 80 to 81 purely from natural exp. I think Ganyu was the first one that happened to.
I never read anything so until I was like adventure rank 25 I did not know what level of books were
Didn't know about those paer and leveling up artifacts and weapons. Thought genshin was hard as fuck leveling up normally
I don't remember exactly but it take something between 6montg to 1 year for my raiden to level up from 89 to 90 (bcuz I'm f2p I wanted to save some exp book even I have and had a lot). I used my raiden every day almost in anything and everything from killing enemies in open world to bosses to limited quest and etc...
i keep my characters at level 89 and see the exp bar go up slowly. after 2 years of my yelan being level 89 she is now just halve way to level 90 from just natural experience
As someone who actually did manual level Albedo from 80/90 to 85/90 *organically* it took me like 3 years to do before i fucked up my whole system with Cyno and leveled him up to 89/90.
Then i capped Shenhe, Qiqi, Kazuha, Cyno, Wanderer, and Albedo all naturally.
I compulsively refuse to let *any* open world EXP go to waste. Except my Triple crowned C6's, everyone else gets stuck at 80/90 and gets to slowly accumulate EXP organically.
Well one thing is that the enemies never give more exp meanwhile our exp bar always gets bigger
First year of the game, I played with qiqi all the time, so I leveled her up to 80, and decided to wait till she levels up. And she did, after probably the whole year.
What are those keybinds? Are you using some kind of ergo keyboard or something?
I've actually never had to do ley lines for exp or mora i get all i need from events and other stuff
I remember very early into the games life I had a lv 89 character and I thought yeah I'll get them to lv 90 naturally to save the resources and by the time I got them to lv 90 naturally I had fully maxed out like 6 other characters and eventually just finished the remaining half exp bar with the papers
glad someone finally said it.
when i started the game few years ago i didn't get how we were supposed to level up our character so i was kinda stuck not even capable to kill the easy ennemies 🤣( my computer lagged at that time so i didn't see some tutorials like the teleportation explanation )
Great video
Something I do is I leave characters at lv 89, the stat difference is negligible and it's cool to see how much field XP they have gained. I've been using Furina sense she came out, and she has gained 75,843 XP sense then. Zhongli is at 492,826, Ganyu, just hit max level while I was farming for Arlecchino. Meaning she has gained over 547,200 XP from non book sources.
You also get xp for some of the quests you do early
It's the same level up system from Honkai 3rd and was also carried on Honkai star rail
The only and mayor difference is how much exp the character gain by doing combat activities
The level-up system exist to keep a balance on what do you have to grind for. If you remove levels, players will have more resources, and you'll have to make the grind for weapons/artifacts/talents longer, and players would find it even more boring. These game needs to have tons of different "level-systems" because players prefer to think their doing different things in a game, even if the reality is that its all "grind".
The traditional enemy EXP tho, its probably not necessary, so much not necessary it's really inconsistent to what even gives it. The reason its in the game in the first place, i think you nailed it. It gives a nice sense of familiarity, for any experienced players, killing an enemy and it NOT giving any EXP would feel offputting. That being said, this EXP cannot be generous so it doesn't become an actual strategy to farm it, it is purposly abysmal to force players to spend resin on EXP books