thank you. this is by far the best demonstration of dampers, people talk all of the time but you have a way of demonstrating and comparing, that is excellent. thank you for sharing this.
Chris.. great video. There are a bunch of people posting archery videos on UA-cam; yours are by far the clearest, most well thought out and informative. Nice job.
THANK YOU - at last, a proper demonstration of the real-world effects of dampening on the bow. NOW I understand (I'm a very new archer and still have a LOT to learn). And WOW, did you ever cram a lot of info into 8 minutes ... no wonder you were out of breath at the end ;-) Many thanks for this excellent video.
Probably the most important video on recurve stabilization on UA-cam to date. Clears out the snake oil bullshit of you MUST HAVE heavy weights and MUST have an extender. Jake Kaminski's video would probably be the 2nd most important, that one explains setup more, whereas this one explains the physics and working principle more.
hi fella that is unbalievable but amazing iv just got my archery cert a month ago and at my local field range once a week for practice what you just showed me is like gold dust thank you so much, kind regards mike in the uk.
Great, thanks. I am 3 weeks from buying my first recurve ( OL) bow , and these dampers on the stabilizers seem to be essential. The simple 'hitting test" reveals a lot.
I m just about to resume shooting recurve after doing 2 years of barebow and I had no idea how much dampening effect long/side rods with the weight/rubber combo had. Very informative video. Thanks. Lots of info in a short video.
Thanks for answer Chis, you are great! Yes I’ve bought S3 on our journey during Holland, ordered Uukha riser and limbs from France (up to 5 months delivery time) and Shibuya sight in Madrid Spain, so now I’m ready for the “last” adventure in my life. Perhaps we are also going to meet you in future, if you are planned to visit Tokyo games 2020. Thanks also for fantastic education here on UA-cam, you make it easy for us beginers to love archery.
Thank you. I personally experienced this today someone took my weights from my bow so i left alone with lesser weights with no damper. I usually got 55 or higher points but today i got bearly 30. Huge difference:) It is both hard to control the bow while aiming and after make the shot
it absorbs limb vibration from the top limb giving a smoother shot feel, but more so, the added extension helps the bow counterbalance and fall forward and down after the shot. So the bow does not have to be weighted to fall forward and down as much. Less weight on the front rod end can be used.
Good demo. Here’s a question about the reasons for using stabilisers: arrows leave quickly, so quick that the vibration won’t interfere with the arrows, why should I care how much vibration I want to suppress? I’m in the market for a pair of side bars, only using the single bar so far.
Hi, That is a good question and one i get regularly. There are a number of reasons. 1. The more the vibration, the more that vibration goes through your arm into your elbow. There are many archers who cant shoot some bows due to the vibration causing pain in the elbow from shooting. elbow tendons are susceptible to harmful vibrations. 2. the better the feel of the shot, the more you can use it for feedback on what a good shot is. The worse the shock of the bow after the shot, the harder it is to tell what you did wrong. 3. The better the bow behaves, the better it will shoot consistently. 4. Dampening also helps control the torsional stability of the limbs keeping them moving inline of the shot. Just because the arrow is gone, doesnt mean that things can happen that are not good after that. Otherwise, why have follow through after the release? Arrow is gone. Why not drop bow arm, arrow is gone. A nice stabilized bow reaction during and after the shot, will assist with keeping good form and make shot consistency better.
Chris Hill Olympic Recurve Archery again thanks for the wisdom. If I may ask a Follow up question: Is there a formula to determine the amount of counter weights, the “right” amount of flex in the pampered for a given limb poundage? How did you come to your current stabiliser setup?
@@peterxyz3541 draw weight divided by 7.6 is the max of what the entire bow should be with stabs and weights. In the end, you want enough weights so the stabs dont act like a diving board, but transfer the vibration to the end of the rods.
The balance point of the bow is actually a bit further back when at full draw, due to the weight of the limbs being further back, the important thing is to achieve a bow rolling gently forward on release
I’ve just started recurve archery and have trained in a club for about 10 hours AND I love it enormous. Have already ordered 2019 Uukha xpro2 raiser 25” with Uukha HX10 limbs (50% carbon) and have to wait up to 5 months for delivery from France. During the time, I’m thinking to buy even an stabilizer and the question is: is it to early? In my age of 67, there is no time for ”trial and error”, I have just ”one shot” left so the question still is should I spend my last money for an stabilizer? My favourite is FiberBow S3 Stabiliser System! And thanks a lot for all of your videos, fantastic education! Maybe I will be a good archer before I die ; )
If you are shooting Olympic recurve, you should have a stabilizer on th ebow. I love the Fiberbow S3 stabs. I personally shoot them. You are never too old for archery!
I’m planning to take out some weights from my stabilizer setup, but my dampeners are pretty stiff (Win&Win BW). Do you know what different soft dampeners there are? I couldn’t find exactly those you have.
The weights i use are Fivics V-Zero dampeners. You can also try WNS S long dampener. There are im sure many other brands that make a soft dampener. Try the WinWin ACS dampener. I had to buy and try several different brands before i found the best one for my setup.
Many people use them to good effect. I find if you have the stabs dampened right, you usually dont need them. I never used them, and really didnt want to use them as it made the limbs harder to fit into sleeves or the slits in bow cases for limbs.
I have mk stabilisers with mk weights on my mk z riser. Few archers said to me that my stabilisers are making noise so I'm planning to get dampers. Thanks for the information! What is the information about putting damper on the riser?
put dampers on the stabs first and then see how the bow is. Most dampers on the riser are used when the riser needs weight. Not as much to dampen the riser.
Hi Chris, may I just clarify, that softer/weaker dampers like yours are much better for dampening compared to harder/stronger ones? I personally use the Doinker EXO damper as I use more weights (6 in front, 4 on sides) and i do experience some elbow discomfort. I was wondering if there is a way to fix this, is it better to add/remove weights? Recalled something you said about a bigger damper requires more weight to achieve the same dampening effect, I hope you can help me with this, thanks a lot! Bless!
Hi, i wouldnt say they are better for damping, but the weaker dampeners will dampen better with less weight. The stiffer the damper, the more weight you must use to get the rubber to move and wiggle. If you have stiff dampers and already a good bit of weight and you are having some elbow discomfort, i would get softer dampers and adjust the weight and get more recoil out of the bow reaction.
Very useful info... I would advise however to make videos where you actually take the time to breathe during speaking. Much safer that way.. and allows for longer videos :) PS: to me the volume was a bit low
usually i am trying to finish before race car noise drowns me out where my warehouse is. And to finish before the telephone rings. I try not to have too long a video as people's attention span is shorter and shorter for online content.
All of which happens AFTER the shot. It would be better if the limbs themselves were critically damped. Then a bit more energy would transfer to the arrow.
no need to dampen before the shot or during the shot. there is no shock wave or vibrations. The stabs balance before and during the shot. The shock wave comes when the string hits its apex and releases the arrow. Dampening the limbs doesn't transfer more energy into the arrow. The energy has already been transferred at the apex.
Chris Hill Olympic Recurve Archery If the max energy is transferred to the arrow there is less energy for the shock. Critical damping at the limbs does that. Look up critical damping. The whole idea of those rods is complicated workaround to correct the mass balance of the bow and to spend the wasted energy in pieces of rubber. Expensive, clumsy and inefficient. Correct design and tuning of the bow is a much better solution.
Even compound bows come with stabs and limb savers etc That is the most efficient limb there is. There is no way to "correctly" design a limb and tune it so it has no shock vibration. No way any bow shoots with less vibration than a similar bow with stabilizers and dampers. Your argument is moot. And you miss the point of my entire video. Have you ever shot an Olympic recurve bow?
Ken Brody by adding dampeners to the limb you are actually taking energy away from the arrow as it is transferred to the dampeners. The other point you are missing is the limbs were designed without dampeners for a reason and you are ruining the geometry and design of the limb by adding weight to them.
Chris Hill Olympic Recurve Archery wouldn't a large amount of the vibration in the limbs be based on the quality of the limb instead of the dampening on the bow. After all the vibration comes from the limbs and moves to the dampeners from there so isn't that part invalid?
Hi, no i am not a smoker. usually i am out of breath trying to get all the info out in a short time as people's attention span for a video is very short.
thank you. this is by far the best demonstration of dampers, people talk all of the time but you have a way of demonstrating and comparing, that is excellent. thank you for sharing this.
Chris.. great video. There are a bunch of people posting archery videos on UA-cam; yours are by far the clearest, most well thought out and informative. Nice job.
thank you.
THANK YOU - at last, a proper demonstration of the real-world effects of dampening on the bow. NOW I understand (I'm a very new archer and still have a LOT to learn). And WOW, did you ever cram a lot of info into 8 minutes ... no wonder you were out of breath at the end ;-) Many thanks for this excellent video.
Probably the most important video on recurve stabilization on UA-cam to date. Clears out the snake oil bullshit of you MUST HAVE heavy weights and MUST have an extender. Jake Kaminski's video would probably be the 2nd most important, that one explains setup more, whereas this one explains the physics and working principle more.
hi fella that is unbalievable but amazing iv just got my archery cert a month ago and at my local field range once a week for practice what you just showed me is like gold dust thank you so much, kind regards mike in the uk.
Learning archery while being a mechanical engineering student, I still have hard time dealing with the damping. Thank you for making a great video!!
Great, thanks. I am 3 weeks from buying my first recurve ( OL) bow , and these dampers on the stabilizers seem to be essential. The simple 'hitting test" reveals a lot.
I m just about to resume shooting recurve after doing 2 years of barebow and I had no idea how much dampening effect long/side rods with the weight/rubber combo had. Very informative video. Thanks. Lots of info in a short video.
Thanks for answer Chis, you are great! Yes I’ve bought S3 on our journey during Holland, ordered Uukha riser and limbs from France (up to 5 months delivery time) and Shibuya sight in Madrid Spain, so now I’m ready for the “last” adventure in my life. Perhaps we are also going to meet you in future, if you are planned to visit Tokyo games 2020. Thanks also for fantastic education here on UA-cam, you make it easy for us beginers to love archery.
Thank you for an excellent presentation.
Thank you very much Chris for these very instructive explanations. Well done.
Excellent description and thanks for this video…
Fantastic, brief and well delivered useful information.
Subbed
A well-made video that showed well how silencers are affecting the recurve bow. Thanks!
Jari Kuusisto these aren't silencers. Silencers are completely different
Yes, I ment dampener :). English is not my mother tongue, so this can happen.
That's fine. I was just confirming as there is also such a thing as silencers
Very interesting. Thank you.
I also really like your sight set-up video.
Thank you so much for this video, such a simple explanation of balance point as well as dampening effect
Thank you. I personally experienced this today someone took my weights from my bow so i left alone with lesser weights with no damper. I usually got 55 or higher points but today i got bearly 30. Huge difference:) It is both hard to control the bow while aiming and after make the shot
Fantastic video. A lot if info and now I understand. Thanks.
Excellent explanation.
Very informative. Thanks Chris
Super helpful! Thanks for the lesson.
This is a great video! Thank you so much, I learned a lot!
Heya mate, can you explain the effect of top riser dampers. Almost every female archer on the world circuit seems to use them.
it absorbs limb vibration from the top limb giving a smoother shot feel, but more so, the added extension helps the bow counterbalance and fall forward and down after the shot. So the bow does not have to be weighted to fall forward and down as much. Less weight on the front rod end can be used.
thanks heaps mate
Hi Chris. Very good video. Do you use the same weight in the side rods? Or do you compensate the sight and riser window weight? Tanks
i use the same weight on each side rod. most archer do that too. Very few have different weights on the side rods for recurve.
Many thanks.
Great video! Could you talk about the correct position of dampers on limbs? Thak you 🏹
i usually dont prefer dampeners on the limbs. I prefer to dampen with the stabs and the riser.
Good demo.
Here’s a question about the reasons for using stabilisers: arrows leave quickly, so quick that the vibration won’t interfere with the arrows, why should I care how much vibration I want to suppress?
I’m in the market for a pair of side bars, only using the single bar so far.
Hi, That is a good question and one i get regularly.
There are a number of reasons. 1. The more the vibration, the more that vibration goes through your arm into your elbow. There are many archers who cant shoot some bows due to the vibration causing pain in the elbow from shooting. elbow tendons are susceptible to harmful vibrations. 2. the better the feel of the shot, the more you can use it for feedback on what a good shot is. The worse the shock of the bow after the shot, the harder it is to tell what you did wrong. 3. The better the bow behaves, the better it will shoot consistently. 4. Dampening also helps control the torsional stability of the limbs keeping them moving inline of the shot. Just because the arrow is gone, doesnt mean that things can happen that are not good after that. Otherwise, why have follow through after the release? Arrow is gone. Why not drop bow arm, arrow is gone. A nice stabilized bow reaction during and after the shot, will assist with keeping good form and make shot consistency better.
Chris Hill Olympic Recurve Archery 👍🏼👍🏼👍🏼👍🏼👍🏼👍🏼👍🏼👍🏼👍🏼👍🏼👍🏼👍🏼👍🏼 thanks for the follow up answer. Things make sense now
Chris Hill Olympic Recurve Archery again thanks for the wisdom. If I may ask a Follow up question:
Is there a formula to determine the amount of counter weights, the “right” amount of flex in the pampered for a given limb poundage?
How did you come to your current stabiliser setup?
@@peterxyz3541 draw weight divided by 7.6 is the max of what the entire bow should be with stabs and weights. In the end, you want enough weights so the stabs dont act like a diving board, but transfer the vibration to the end of the rods.
Thank you! very informative.
The balance point of the bow is actually a bit further back when at full draw, due to the weight of the limbs being further back, the important thing is to achieve a bow rolling gently forward on release
Thanks Chris, helped me understand.
you are welcome
I’ve just started recurve archery and have trained in a club for about 10 hours AND I love it enormous.
Have already ordered 2019 Uukha xpro2 raiser 25” with Uukha HX10 limbs (50% carbon) and have to wait up to 5 months for delivery from France. During the time, I’m thinking to buy even an stabilizer and the question is: is it to early?
In my age of 67, there is no time for ”trial and error”, I have just ”one shot” left so the question still is should I spend my last money for an stabilizer? My favourite is FiberBow S3 Stabiliser System!
And thanks a lot for all of your videos, fantastic education! Maybe I will be a good archer before I die ; )
If you are shooting Olympic recurve, you should have a stabilizer on th ebow. I love the Fiberbow S3 stabs. I personally shoot them. You are never too old for archery!
really good video!!!
Great visual info, cheers.
Very illuminating...
Great video
I’m planning to take out some weights from my stabilizer setup, but my dampeners are pretty stiff (Win&Win BW). Do you know what different soft dampeners there are? I couldn’t find exactly those you have.
The weights i use are Fivics V-Zero dampeners. You can also try WNS S long dampener. There are im sure many other brands that make a soft dampener. Try the WinWin ACS dampener. I had to buy and try several different brands before i found the best one for my setup.
Chris Hill Olympic Recurve Archery Thanks!
Do you recommend limbsavers?
Many people use them to good effect. I find if you have the stabs dampened right, you usually dont need them. I never used them, and really didnt want to use them as it made the limbs harder to fit into sleeves or the slits in bow cases for limbs.
I have mk stabilisers with mk weights on my mk z riser. Few archers said to me that my stabilisers are making noise so I'm planning to get dampers. Thanks for the information! What is the information about putting damper on the riser?
put dampers on the stabs first and then see how the bow is. Most dampers on the riser are used when the riser needs weight. Not as much to dampen the riser.
Hi Chris, may I just clarify, that softer/weaker dampers like yours are much better for dampening compared to harder/stronger ones? I personally use the Doinker EXO damper as I use more weights (6 in front, 4 on sides) and i do experience some elbow discomfort. I was wondering if there is a way to fix this, is it better to add/remove weights? Recalled something you said about a bigger damper requires more weight to achieve the same dampening effect, I hope you can help me with this, thanks a lot! Bless!
Hi, i wouldnt say they are better for damping, but the weaker dampeners will dampen better with less weight. The stiffer the damper, the more weight you must use to get the rubber to move and wiggle. If you have stiff dampers and already a good bit of weight and you are having some elbow discomfort, i would get softer dampers and adjust the weight and get more recoil out of the bow reaction.
@@ChrisHillOlympicRecurveArchery thank you Chris! Amazing video and thank you for the fast response, definitely a sub from me (:
Very useful info...
I would advise however to make videos where you actually take the time to breathe during speaking. Much safer that way.. and allows for longer videos :)
PS: to me the volume was a bit low
usually i am trying to finish before race car noise drowns me out where my warehouse is. And to finish before the telephone rings. I try not to have too long a video as people's attention span is shorter and shorter for online content.
All of which happens AFTER the shot. It would be better if the limbs themselves were critically damped. Then a bit more energy would transfer to the arrow.
no need to dampen before the shot or during the shot. there is no shock wave or vibrations. The stabs balance before and during the shot. The shock wave comes when the string hits its apex and releases the arrow. Dampening the limbs doesn't transfer more energy into the arrow. The energy has already been transferred at the apex.
Chris Hill Olympic Recurve Archery If the max energy is transferred to the arrow there is less energy for the shock. Critical damping at the limbs does that. Look up critical damping.
The whole idea of those rods is complicated workaround to correct the mass balance of the bow and to spend the wasted energy in pieces of rubber. Expensive, clumsy and inefficient. Correct design and tuning of the bow is a much better solution.
Even compound bows come with stabs and limb savers etc That is the most efficient limb there is. There is no way to "correctly" design a limb and tune it so it has no shock vibration. No way any bow shoots with less vibration than a similar bow with stabilizers and dampers. Your argument is moot. And you miss the point of my entire video. Have you ever shot an Olympic recurve bow?
Ken Brody by adding dampeners to the limb you are actually taking energy away from the arrow as it is transferred to the dampeners. The other point you are missing is the limbs were designed without dampeners for a reason and you are ruining the geometry and design of the limb by adding weight to them.
Chris Hill Olympic Recurve Archery wouldn't a large amount of the vibration in the limbs be based on the quality of the limb instead of the dampening on the bow. After all the vibration comes from the limbs and moves to the dampeners from there so isn't that part invalid?
Great video. Are you a smoker? You sound out of breath most of the time.
Hi, no i am not a smoker. usually i am out of breath trying to get all the info out in a short time as people's attention span for a video is very short.