No it wouldn't, the Sun Station failed, it doesn't actually do anything. The sun explodes because it reached the natural end of its life, and the Ash Twin Project harvests power from the sun via the plantlike towers on the poles.
One misconception you got though is that the best way to leave an orbit isn't to thrust away from the sun, but in the direction of your orbit. So to accelerate, because when you're orbiting, you're actually falling towards the sun, but you move at a high enough speed so the inertia of the fall shifts progressively away from the sun and becomes tangent to it. If you slow down, the sun attraction will become greater and make you go closer to it, which is why you need more speed at a lower orbit as the attraction is stronger the closer you are. I don't know if it'd de-orbit the station if you pushed it that way, depending on how the devs omplemented that part, but on paper it's the most effective way.
An orbit is a balance between speed and altitude, so putting thrust that affects either of those independently should disrupt the balance, it shouldn't really matter whether I'm lowing or raising the orbit.
@@WayneHeaney not quite. Accelerating prograde is the most efficient way to raise an orbit. This way craft is not wasting energy to change arg of periapsis/inclination or other parameters - all energy goes into increasing orbital momentum.
The problem with radial acceleration is that the effect of doing it in different parts of the orbit will cancel each other out. Accelerate 1m/s away from the sun while in orbit, and your orbit will be slightly elliptical. Do it again after going halfway around the sun and your orbit will be back to its original shape. On the other hand, accelerating in the direction of the orbit will stack up. You can keep doing it all around the sun, and your orbit should go higher and higher. So to test it accurately, it's best to do it for as long as possible and check the altitude before and after. (if you do it for several orbits, the altitude should change for every part of the orbit)
The developpers say things like planets and the station are not on rails but are actually simulating gravity. An other explanation could be that they are simply not reacting to collisions (with your ship). Even staying in contact and boosting like you're doing here is a collision from the game's point of view.
yeah, I thought the same. They're affected by gravity of the sun, but don't get any other input. Not sure why bother with simulating it, when you have the same thing happen to celestial bodies each time, since they can't be affected by player. But I can believe devs, if they say it's actually simulated.
The accumulated floating point error actually doesn't matter as long as you're within or anywhere near the solar system. The system physics work mostly fine even if you follow the probe for the whole 22 minutes. Floating point error only becomes really noticeable if you just jump in your ship and go continuous full throttle away from the solar system, which gets you orders of magnitude further than the probe since unlike the probe, you are accelerating the whole time. You actually won't even be able to see the supernova at all (which is ironically lore-inaccurate since you can see all the other stars in the sky going supernova). You can tell that the physics is going wonky by looking at the map. As for getting stuck in the corner of your ship, this is caused by the gravity crystal (i.e. the "artificial gravity" subsystem). This crystal actually has slightly different mechanics than all the other gravity crystals/floors in the game, and it interacts weirdly with the sub's strong gravity. So you can prevent this problem by simply damaging the crystal. Once you do that, you'll get proper microgravity inside your ship, even while orbiting super close to the sun.
It's easier to land if you thrust backwards. Because if you accelerate to the station, you're going to fling out, because more velocity ends up increasing the apoapsis. But you can make a stable orbit by getting to the periapsis and doing a retrograde burn until your velocity to the sun equals zero. (Perfect orbit) Then you can choose to have a smaller orbit, because smaller orbits are faster radially, and then you can increase orbit into the sunstation, as it is infront of you. Or have a larger orbit and decrease with a retrograde burn as it is behind you, for the intercept. Both you end up looking at the station, but the out-to-in is a bit less intuitive.
Probably not, though I'm almost certain you can with the orbital probe cannon, also try learning to fly the nomai shuttle, it's really neat, line up the initial launch right and it can put you straight into the heart of Giant's Deep. Also if physics applied to anything planetary, with how small everything is, you could disrupt Attelrock by running into it. Finally an easier way to test this would've been to try to push the station into the sun by decelerating it, since that way you're acting with the sun not against it.
attlerock is actually on of the heaviest things/the heaviest thing in the game because of some physics jank involving different ways of calculating gravity for some bodies
I tried today with the sun station, the orbital canon, and even the broken parts of the station and the canon. Even pushing for as long as possible, they didn't move at all. (I pushed in the direction to accelerate them all in their orbit, to make them escape the sun or giant's deep, but still no difference)
About the sun station being on a fixed path thing, I've noticed that the sun station doesn't seem to have any meaningful gravitational pull towards itself (besides the nomai gravity floor inside the station). This is the reason why I think it is impractical to park your ship right on top of the sun station, since the ship will be at a slightly higher orbit it gets dragged away from the station and there is no gravitational pull between the station and your ship in order to resist this movement. If the sun station gravitational pull towards the player or the ship was small due to the sun station having low mass, any small force applied to the sun station would help a lot into deorbitting it (if the physics were actually at work there, just imagine what our ship can do to the deep space satellite). Its mass couldn't be zero or the sun station would not orbit the sun at all. The only reasonable answer for me to explain this behavior is that the sun station has a fixed orbit.
And now I read isaz explanation about collisions, yeah if you make the sun station not vulnerable to collisions it explains why it can't be de-orbitted
Interesting test! It’s probably hard to tell visually if you’re changing the orbit because the sun is growing throughout the loop. This is why the Sun Station plunges into the sun well before the end of the loop. For a more conclusive test you could time how long it normally takes for the Sun Station to be consumed by the sun, and see if you can make it take longer
You can tell this won't work because the orbital path of the station is actually too close to the sun to make sense at that speed, which you can tell because YOU are orbiting via physics and not rails, and if you try to sit in the same orbit as the station, at the same speed, you fly away from the sun. This is also why its so hard to land on it, once you're there, your real physics don't interact well with its janky, fast rail.
On the subject of the floating point errors, I have tried the usual method of keeping on accelerating away from the solar system and things get strange with orbits and the UI too. I once got Giant's Deep to swap orbits with Dark Bramble and the same with Timber Hearth and Brittle Hollow. I also tried it using the "Statue Skip" glitch and with the infinite time things get way more exaggerated. Just make sure to watch that fuel gauge. The best one I got was when I messed around with the Nomai ships trying to splashdown to the core (I heard you could clip down to it) on Giant's Deep. I couldn't land their ships on any other planet as the Switch version clips the legs and doorway into the ground, trapping me each time. Anyway, on my second try I avoided using the ship's "landing mode" when, as I got close, I saw the orbital cannon's pieces zoom into my way. I tried to recall the ship but I was too late and slammed into them full force, which flung me so far and so quick even the player HUD started to glitch out. The planets went insane on the map, de-orbiting quickly in the brief second I loaded it, the player HUD vanished completely and after that the game locked up, playing the space traveling music and then stopped it looping (eventually). The Switch's fans instantly went to max speed btw, I thought that was funny. I wish I could have recorded it but the Switch doesn't allow that during that game. Also, it seems the Sun itself has an orbit too (only very, very small), but it only showed when I got flung God only knows however far away I was as -it too started moving-, albeit very briefly. It looked rather spiky as well.
They might be immune to collisions. They are still following gravity simulated in real time. But pushing them or crashing into them doesn't do anything.
What an interesting question that will totally not lead to the end of the world
No it wouldn't, the Sun Station failed, it doesn't actually do anything.
The sun explodes because it reached the natural end of its life, and the Ash Twin Project harvests power from the sun via the plantlike towers on the poles.
One misconception you got though is that the best way to leave an orbit isn't to thrust away from the sun, but in the direction of your orbit. So to accelerate, because when you're orbiting, you're actually falling towards the sun, but you move at a high enough speed so the inertia of the fall shifts progressively away from the sun and becomes tangent to it. If you slow down, the sun attraction will become greater and make you go closer to it, which is why you need more speed at a lower orbit as the attraction is stronger the closer you are.
I don't know if it'd de-orbit the station if you pushed it that way, depending on how the devs omplemented that part, but on paper it's the most effective way.
In Kepler's model, yes. OW physics seems to be quite different from the real world, so I would suspect radial out thrust to have a greater effect.
An orbit is a balance between speed and altitude, so putting thrust that affects either of those independently should disrupt the balance, it shouldn't really matter whether I'm lowing or raising the orbit.
@@WayneHeaney not quite. Accelerating prograde is the most efficient way to raise an orbit. This way craft is not wasting energy to change arg of periapsis/inclination or other parameters - all energy goes into increasing orbital momentum.
@@ivanjermakov Huh, TIL. Though even if that's true the sun station clearly wasn't moving.
The problem with radial acceleration is that the effect of doing it in different parts of the orbit will cancel each other out.
Accelerate 1m/s away from the sun while in orbit, and your orbit will be slightly elliptical.
Do it again after going halfway around the sun and your orbit will be back to its original shape.
On the other hand, accelerating in the direction of the orbit will stack up. You can keep doing it all around the sun, and your orbit should go higher and higher.
So to test it accurately, it's best to do it for as long as possible and check the altitude before and after.
(if you do it for several orbits, the altitude should change for every part of the orbit)
The developpers say things like planets and the station are not on rails but are actually simulating gravity.
An other explanation could be that they are simply not reacting to collisions (with your ship).
Even staying in contact and boosting like you're doing here is a collision from the game's point of view.
yeah, I thought the same. They're affected by gravity of the sun, but don't get any other input. Not sure why bother with simulating it, when you have the same thing happen to celestial bodies each time, since they can't be affected by player. But I can believe devs, if they say it's actually simulated.
The accumulated floating point error actually doesn't matter as long as you're within or anywhere near the solar system. The system physics work mostly fine even if you follow the probe for the whole 22 minutes. Floating point error only becomes really noticeable if you just jump in your ship and go continuous full throttle away from the solar system, which gets you orders of magnitude further than the probe since unlike the probe, you are accelerating the whole time. You actually won't even be able to see the supernova at all (which is ironically lore-inaccurate since you can see all the other stars in the sky going supernova). You can tell that the physics is going wonky by looking at the map.
As for getting stuck in the corner of your ship, this is caused by the gravity crystal (i.e. the "artificial gravity" subsystem). This crystal actually has slightly different mechanics than all the other gravity crystals/floors in the game, and it interacts weirdly with the sub's strong gravity. So you can prevent this problem by simply damaging the crystal. Once you do that, you'll get proper microgravity inside your ship, even while orbiting super close to the sun.
Very insightful info, thanks!
Nice attempt. I like the additional thought processes and details you talked about!
It's easier to land if you thrust backwards.
Because if you accelerate to the station, you're going to fling out, because more velocity ends up increasing the apoapsis.
But you can make a stable orbit by getting to the periapsis and doing a retrograde burn until your velocity to the sun equals zero. (Perfect orbit)
Then you can choose to have a smaller orbit, because smaller orbits are faster radially, and then you can increase orbit into the sunstation, as it is infront of you.
Or have a larger orbit and decrease with a retrograde burn as it is behind you, for the intercept.
Both you end up looking at the station, but the out-to-in is a bit less intuitive.
Probably not, though I'm almost certain you can with the orbital probe cannon, also try learning to fly the nomai shuttle, it's really neat, line up the initial launch right and it can put you straight into the heart of Giant's Deep. Also if physics applied to anything planetary, with how small everything is, you could disrupt Attelrock by running into it. Finally an easier way to test this would've been to try to push the station into the sun by decelerating it, since that way you're acting with the sun not against it.
attlerock is actually on of the heaviest things/the heaviest thing in the game because of some physics jank involving different ways of calculating gravity for some bodies
I tried today with the sun station, the orbital canon, and even the broken parts of the station and the canon.
Even pushing for as long as possible, they didn't move at all.
(I pushed in the direction to accelerate them all in their orbit, to make them escape the sun or giant's deep, but still no difference)
About the sun station being on a fixed path thing, I've noticed that the sun station doesn't seem to have any meaningful gravitational pull towards itself (besides the nomai gravity floor inside the station).
This is the reason why I think it is impractical to park your ship right on top of the sun station, since the ship will be at a slightly higher orbit it gets dragged away from the station and there is no gravitational pull between the station and your ship in order to resist this movement.
If the sun station gravitational pull towards the player or the ship was small due to the sun station having low mass, any small force applied to the sun station would help a lot into deorbitting it (if the physics were actually at work there, just imagine what our ship can do to the deep space satellite). Its mass couldn't be zero or the sun station would not orbit the sun at all. The only reasonable answer for me to explain this behavior is that the sun station has a fixed orbit.
And now I read isaz explanation about collisions, yeah if you make the sun station not vulnerable to collisions it explains why it can't be de-orbitted
It might be possible with mods though, by changing its mass
Interesting test! It’s probably hard to tell visually if you’re changing the orbit because the sun is growing throughout the loop. This is why the Sun Station plunges into the sun well before the end of the loop. For a more conclusive test you could time how long it normally takes for the Sun Station to be consumed by the sun, and see if you can make it take longer
You can tell this won't work because the orbital path of the station is actually too close to the sun to make sense at that speed, which you can tell because YOU are orbiting via physics and not rails, and if you try to sit in the same orbit as the station, at the same speed, you fly away from the sun.
This is also why its so hard to land on it, once you're there, your real physics don't interact well with its janky, fast rail.
Good point.
On the subject of the floating point errors, I have tried the usual method of keeping on accelerating away from the solar system and things get strange with orbits and the UI too. I once got Giant's Deep to swap orbits with Dark Bramble and the same with Timber Hearth and Brittle Hollow.
I also tried it using the "Statue Skip" glitch and with the infinite time things get way more exaggerated. Just make sure to watch that fuel gauge.
The best one I got was when I messed around with the Nomai ships trying to splashdown to the core (I heard you could clip down to it) on Giant's Deep. I couldn't land their ships on any other planet as the Switch version clips the legs and doorway into the ground, trapping me each time. Anyway, on my second try I avoided using the ship's "landing mode" when, as I got close, I saw the orbital cannon's pieces zoom into my way. I tried to recall the ship but I was too late and slammed into them full force, which flung me so far and so quick even the player HUD started to glitch out. The planets went insane on the map, de-orbiting quickly in the brief second I loaded it, the player HUD vanished completely and after that the game locked up, playing the space traveling music and then stopped it looping (eventually). The Switch's fans instantly went to max speed btw, I thought that was funny.
I wish I could have recorded it but the Switch doesn't allow that during that game. Also, it seems the Sun itself has an orbit too (only very, very small), but it only showed when I got flung God only knows however far away I was as -it too started moving-, albeit very briefly. It looked rather spiky as well.
It should be possible in theory, according to this developer interview: ua-cam.com/video/LbY0mBXKKT0/v-deo.htmlsi=MJ_nW2MTYntGtsGl&t=1640
They might be immune to collisions. They are still following gravity simulated in real time. But pushing them or crashing into them doesn't do anything.