My idea is to add the Gambit Primeval slayer buff to dungeons when doing them solo. every time you complete a phase you get a higher multiplier on boss damage. that way 3 person dungeons still feel like normal content but solo players don't have to 10 phase a boss. just make it so every time you complete a dungeon mechanic you get Primeval Slayer x1 and it adds to it every time you complete a phase
even if its ONLY for a solo run of it, this would be FANTASTIC. 14 MILLION HP through 8 phases is just... why Hell, even in a fireteam with GOOD BUILDS it took us 3 phases on day 1
For Spire of the Watcher, I could cope with the fact that the bosses health pool was so large, because the mechanics to reach damage phase could be completed with ease, and very quickly. With Ghosts of the Deep, there is way too much involved to get to the damage phase to justify having a shield to break, on top of the massive health pool. One scuffed damage phase feels so much worse now, because of the lengthy setup in between.
Yep. I duo’d the dungeon with a Buddy, managed to kill her in 4 damage phases. We were so hyped but were wondering why the ads were still shooting us. … our dumb asses forgot to kill the ghost lol She came back and we had to do another damage phase.. So yeah, there’s also that too
I always thought the Prophecy boss was well designed. Semi chunky health and some nifty platforming during damage phase. But not to the point where it would take you a crazy amount of time once you got the mechanics down
prophecy in general is the perfect example of a dungeon, and antithesis to these recent bullet sponges. It was fast paced, few safespots, yet not drawn out at all. You learnt the rythm and mechanics then perfect them - Once you do you're done in 3 phases. Profit. I'd prefer more hectic but shorter fights.
The right weapons help... arablast is pumping out 650,000 damage with one bullet when you hit his shield in damage phase. People just need to find the right weapons. Arablast is S++ tier for this dungeon solo
They def need to add a mode where it’s specifically geared towards soloing, that way they could adjust for the health pools. Because right now they have to balance a solo experience on top of a 3 man where it’s never been easier to stack buffs/debuff bosses. This is easily imo the best 3 man dungeon experience, but that will harm the solo
A couple points to add to this is the dungeon bosses being highly mobile while still being able to damage you during a damage phase and the fact that it feels like its balanced around having max resilience like it's base lvl
i get that bungie wants resil to matter but 35% or whatever it is now damage resistance is too unbalanced to the point where it’s required for endgame content. should be brought down to like 10-20% at 10 resil imo
@@parsnips16It's actually 30% now, and I think that's fine considering how you don't want to sacrifice mod slots to be just able to survive dregs just to be eviscerated by snipers or champions.
It's not just balanced around res, it balanced around being in a well of radiance. The last boss absolutely shreds you during damage phases, not to mention all the ads that spawn around her.
@@parsnips16 changing the ceiling doesn't actually fix anything. It's like minimum wage. It just shifts everything up or down equally. Unless they change the way they design the encounters, the max and min values don't matter.
@@MrNuclearz this is the real problem. Everything is balanced around the assumption that a fire team is going to have a well which makes for a garbage experience anytime you don't have one.
I agree. If you can execute 3-4 DPs phases on a dungeon boss consistently without dying, you have shown mastery over it. You shouldn't need to 1.5x or even double the time spent to prove it.
So it’s better if we pay for content that’s as easy as strikes? lol I rather it be difficult, the entire thing to it is loadouts. Loadouts and skill issues.
@@boookythegod there's a difference between difficulty of execution and artificial difficulty through damage gates and absurd HP values. It's simply not fun or engaging to try to make something more difficult by making its health obnoxiously high (which is pure laziness). healthy difficulty would, or should be, accomplished through mechanics.
@@Masoch1st get better, like I said before skill issue. If some ppl can beat it, you can too. You don’t get better by complaining to make it easier. You get better by sitting down and actually playing. Learn spawns. Better weapons. Mods. Exotic armor + ability combos. If you aren’t thinking about all this before you enter a dungeon solo, you have no right to complain about dungeons… You aren’t even prepared. Dungeons would be a waste of 20 bucks if they made it as easy as strikes.
Something I’d like to point out with Ghost of the Deep specifically. Not only do the bosses have huge health bars, but that even after you do all the mechanics to start damage phase, you then have to take down ANOTHER shield JUST to be able to do actual damage (obviously you can use Arbalest to break it in one shot, but that’s besides the point), and those shields are a good half a million in health.
Well said and I hope this gets some traction with the devs at Bungie. All you have to do is look at Esoterickk's solo flawless video where the final boss is over half the video length, which is the exact thing Gladd is talking about where the average player gets discouraged. It's less a test of skill and more sheer luck that something stupid didn't happen to kill you during the marathon boss fights.
@@narciszuz not sure if you’re joking or not, but a suboptimal Esoterickk build is still probably gonna be better than half the builds most players can come up with. The fact that one of the top Destiny endgame players spent that much time on one boss at all is immediately discouraging 90% of the player base from even wanting to attempt it.
I totally agree with you here! During Season of the Seraph, there was this neat little perk called Solo Operative where you get a free 25% damage buff at all times so long as you're solo. With that buff it was an easy 4 to 5 phase on him. Now it takes at least 10 phases solo for that boss to die. It's just kind of ridiculous. They need to rework the scaling for the solo experience!!
I’ve soloed all dungeons and this is the first time I’m thinking maybe “nah”. Not only does the final boss have 12 million health but it has a shield. Lol
I 100% agree. I don't class myself as that super mega 0.001% player you mentioned, but I have been able to solo flawless every dungeon so far. After my first run of the new dungeon, I very quickly noticed I just didn't want to solo this one. Both bosses are so tanky it's unbelievable. The more phases you are forced to do, the more chances of failure you have due to so many different variables. Trust me, I tried to solo the final boss, the amount of times I got decent dps phases and then one random moth blew up behind me and ruined my run? Yeah, way too many. Scaling would fix EVERYTHING. That's it.
As long as you play safe and keep your health up, if you happen to get hit by a random moth, you should be fine. The 6 or 7 moth attack can only happen at the start of a new mechanic phase, if the knight is killed anywhere outside the correct area, and after lining up each of the taken king symbols. Knowing that makes it a lot less annoying to deal with
I would class myself at the top 15-20% of players and I’ve been able to solo flawless every dungeon excluding the final boss in duality and ghosts. I don’t have top gear from raids to make it an easier experience because I’m a SOLO player. I can’t do those elaborate meta, quick-swap, bait and switch methods because I’m not a top 0.1% looking to optimize dps and I also play console which doesn’t make it easy to swap loadouts with the load times between menus. I don’t care if I can’t solo flawless, I really couldn’t, I just want to be able to solo the dungeon and get the exotic without having to rely on sketchy LFG teams broo.
I love how he explains the pros and cons. I live the challenge of having a solo flawless. I’ve done every dungeon solo flawless and spent so much time dying in the new deep dungeon on the final trying to practice and I can’t even get a single phase going when it’s feels unbearable. GG’s Gladd.
@@w4yne3d61 they are based on team play but also built around a solo challenge for the above average player. Every single dungeon from the start will be able to solo. It’s for the challenge.
@@w4yne3d61 at the same time the game litterally gives us challenges and triumphs for exactly trying to beat these dungeons solo, and some solo flawlessly
This dungeon is literally a perfect solo outside of boss health. Cut down boss health 25-30% or have them have slightly more health than Caiatl and Gahlran and this dungeon is insanely good. The boss health forcing 40 minute to 1 hour plus final boss fights ruins the enjoyment of the solo experience and turns it into an endurance match that is slightly too much.
I dont mind boss health but to start dps is annoying especialy new dungeon kill enemy ,reveal symbols,kill knight while standing in plate(3 times)then go kill all 3 guardian donk while u have reaveal buff thats too much only to deal pitifull damage spire was perfect boss is tough but atleast u start dps faast when meorize all nods overall its good dungeon but solo will be challange
@@cangooz2240 spire was awful because the mechanic was brain dead and boring. This dungeon has engaging mechanics that arent raid level. It is very good.
exactly, with how much the boss moves around bungie could have atleast given less hp for it but no. X4 the ads Lucent butterflies everywhere (they one shot) boss tracking me across the map flinches like crazy and tps around like a maniac Same hp as nezarec crazy ass long mechanic to start dps (only to do a mosquito level dps because of the boss hp) can we get that one bungie employee who thought this would be a fun solo experience to try and solo this?
@@risensensei This is just a hard dungeon. We got an easy raid, now its compensating. We agree on boss health issues and I do think the boss hits too hard and doesnt give even moments break but the moths are a skill issue thing. Outside of the two complaints I just made this tops Duality as my favourite solo, but as it currently stands it is certainly stressful and draining to run that final boss room (I didnt think id get day one Solo Flaw of this, but managed it in the end). Even if left as is, it would be much nicer if the fight was only 20 minutes because by the end of it youre just drained.
It also just so happens that the boss's tendency to teleport to the worst possible places mid dpd phase worsens the hp problem. Cos the one thing worse than a boss with too much hp is one you can't hit.
I had that problem the other night, the boss had less than 15% of it's health left when we started DPS, it teleported and I completely lose it. I spent 80% of the remaining damage phase looking for the boss only to notice that it was directly above me, like literally 90 degrees above me. DPS ended with like 2% of it's hp left and it felt so bad because I just lost the boss in the midst of the chaos. My other fireteam members were able to find it but I was absolutely confused to what happened
I feel like the legendary Seraph Shield mission was an amazing example of a solo player friendly experience w/ challenge vs content like the recent dungeons or even the Avalon mission at Launch where everything feels like it was never meant for solos to begin with.
Hell no. Solo seraph mission was a breeze. Solo Avalon on launch is where the best difficulty was at. The whole thing was oppresive but fair, 1st boss could be 2 phased solo, and final boss' only hard part was the last phase if you weren't running well, which was still doable as long as you stayed on the run. I soloed Avalon by mistake on the first run without even knowing what was going on with haphazard strand build without suspend, and i'm by no means a very good player, if i can do it, so can everyone else.
The fact that spire of the watcher had seasonal modifiers at launch for extra solo damage AND a debuff and it still was a three to four phase for a well tuned loadout (yes elite players could get less phases) shows they were aware how much of a slog it was to tackle the bosses health bar.
I did spire solo last season and Akelous took me like 8-10 phases with an actually decent built and it was such a chafing experience, it wasn't even funny anymore at some point, just the same boring stuff over and over
Final boss is fine I think 5 phases at the max is fine for soloing but that first spire boss is fucking ridiculous that dungeon is easy but I had to sit there wiggling this dickheads health down and get kicked when I had him down to half
Yeah I fully agree with gladd but imo the problem started with Spire. Grasp dmg phase is so long that makes it easier even though final boss is tanky as fuck
Totally agree with this. It's kind of funny, because even the soundtracks are usually separated into 2-3 parts that each play after a set amount of dps phases. So when you do a solo run you just have this super intense soundtrack that plays for 30 minutes, keeping you on edge, and getting you quite exhausted by the end.
At risk of sounding contrarian, I have to say I actually prefer this. Mostly because 9/10 times with 3 people in a dungeon you can gigamelt the boss and completely miss the music and I typically want to hear it 1) because I might never lol and 2) because it sorts keeps me pumped. Ofc I understand you tho. Just my opin
When you can solo run Shattered Throne and kill Dul Incaru in less than 15 seconds, if you try to solo Duality and Spire is just gruelling. It's making more people want to solo these things, but they see how difficult they are and they just don't bother. It's essentially the same thing as throwing you against Godfrey while you still have your starting weapons and armor. IT IS NOT FUN
Duality is not tedious. Gahlran is, because he’s usually a 5-7 phase with Lament. However, Caiatl is a perfect example of a very challenging dungeon boss. I three phased her solo flawless, and many have solo’d her.
i soloed the shattered throne back in season of the lost then went on to prophecy and noticed the glaring issue instantly and honestly barely managed to get through it when that solo boost seasonal mod was here and then i swore to myself to never ever attempt to solo a dungeon ever again due to the way it was going and well i was right about the way it went lmao
I remember when I used to solo dungeons for fun back in Arrivals. That certainly doesn’t happen anymore. I also wish we had more dungeon encounters like Chamber of Suffering. Whatever happened to those? Now it’s two bosses and a more traversal encounter. The pressure and add density (back then, and no cheesing) was great. Wish we got more of those.
What about duality vault? One room (2 kinda) high adds, run relic with time limit. My guess is they think people prefer bosses over puzzles, wich i think tends to be true as often you see people count bosses as a metric of quality. But i agree more action encounters would be cool
I think chamber of suffering was a product of it's time. Back then, we weren't as tanky and couldn't spam abilities as often. An encounter like that nowadays would be pretty easy.
The new dungeon has fantastic difficulty for me. I love the mechanics and everything about it except for the obscene health pools for the bosses. It's genuinely just painful to try and solo.
@@Razer5542 It is based on how many phases you do, as the shield counts as HP. So if you want a quick and easy time, Arbelest or Conditional Finality are mandatory for the first boss
This is sorta the same frustration a lot of people have with champions too, especially overloads--it restricts your build, and if you don't know how to stunlock an overload in particular you're just screwed. I personally think that tormentors were a fantastic take on a new difficult enemy type. They force you to be precise in order to kill them quickly, but you can use whatever dang loadout you want to do so. I hope we see more enemy design like that going forward.
Tormentors can actually scare as well as challenge you. Champions have always been “why won’t you die! And quit ‘porting and spamming!” “oh hey a bigger uglier one that likes to get in your face…” “turtle heal turtle heal be a shame to pop” Always been tedious or a chore, or pads playtime idk. Stasis made a decent enough change up, but in master LOst sectors or grandmasters. Strategies that worked below them in level no long sustain as they become op. (Overloads when stunned still heal and not a second after will unstun and spam their abilities…) (barriers are more on a hair trigger with attack spam) (unstoppables have a larger health pool) So you have to be absolutely overwhelming.
Downside of tormentors is bungo insist on throwing them at you next to bottomless pits (jump slam suppression = instant death) and their grab foes 70% total life damage while stun locking you for 4-5 seconds. A single Miss-step and you are Instakills meanwhile the boss is spamming 10-20 adds in the bleachers to do chip damage at all times.
Players enjoy SOLO dungeons based on personal achievement, fun, etc. The energy has definitely shifted to be something not really about skill or effectiveness but to how much stamina one has. It is tedious, agitating and kinda leaves you sour about that particular experience. Challenges are always welcome but bosses HP should be logically at 3-5 phases for a committed player.
That’s exactly it. The moment I started going “let’s just see how long I can last” I started going for about 4 hours before I just said “not worth it, done this many times before and the normal emblem looks better anyway”
So much this, very well said mate. Was into soloing every dungeon, but the last 2 are just too tedious when it comes down to boss health. Soloed flawlessly duality only after optimizing my build for the 2 bosses, but spire and ghosts are just a very annoying slog !
the newest dungeon feels like a chore to do with the drawn out first encounter, the long overstayed jump puzzle, and the absurd amount of boss health. the art and story were peak tho
I think duality is a prime example of getting it right. It's a hard solo but you can at least two phase both bosses if you are playing well. This makes things difficult but not sloggish.
@@Razer5542 just shoot the backpacks. if you play smart, they arent an issue at all. source: i solo flawlessed master. also the bugs are somewhat easy to avoid if you know where not to stand. and to be clear, you aren't wrong, but a slight change in strategy and that problem goes away.
I totally agree. My solo flawless for spire was just an endurance test that was boring toward the end. Not sure if I’ll try this one for solo play. Thanks for your voice Gladd!
i can see them nerfing the boss health. it's probably the biggest complaint so far. thanks for talking about this! im sure bungie will see it especially when big content creators are voicing this issue
Totally agree. I am sure we will figure out some more optimal strats for the new dungeon, but if it takes anything more than 6-8 phases for the solo, I wont touch it. I have done, Prophecy, Shattered Throne, Pit, Grasp all solo flawless but these newer ones i havent tried cause it seems you have to be the goat to get it done, or a robot with 1000000 stamina.
It shouldn't. I messed up a bit, and I was set up for a 6 or 7 phase last night. Used witherhoard and the bait and switch cataclysmic for boss My game crashed super close towards my 6th phase when the boss was at a quarter health ruining my 6 hour run, but it is what it is.
Caitel is a pain but give spire a try. Its super ez to solo flawless because even if you fail a damage phase its so easy to get another one quickly. Thats my problem with the new dungeon. It takes 15 different mechanic just to get to the damage phase with almost no room for mistakes.
With the exception of Shattered Throne, I have always soloed Dungeons first before going in with a team, I personally liked the challenge and helped me understand the mechanics better. But since duality I noticed that the whole experience was becoming more a chore than an actually enjoyable activity. Ads felts like they were always out of control, constantly spawning and the bosses started to take multiple damage phases, and by multiple I mean 5-6 phases. Spire took me around 6-7 phases (can't remember anymore) to complete the first time. For this new one, I tried soloing the boss (for a bit) but when I realized that I was barely doing 1/10 or 1/8th of damage I said not this time, I really have better things to do right now. I do like the dungeon though, its a nicely done one, but not this time bungie... or maybe I am just getting too old for this
Nah my buddy who is the biggest destiny nerd and player i know was saying the same thing. If everyone is saying the same thing than Bungie might need to take a hint
I feel you, I finally had the time to try solo Spire the other day and it took me 6 phases for each boss with optimal loudouts and loudout switching to maximise damage. It was just pure tedium rather than a challenge, made the whole experience feel like a chore I had to sit through. Bungie definitely needs to address this, especially since they themselves push the narrative that people should try soloing dungeons.
@@ViccyTheThiccy I thought they learned from D1 that lots of health does not make the game more fun. When it starts to feel less challenging and more of a choir is when I just turn the game off
Absolutely love and agree with this. After 7 phasing akelos in spire, I went into my 5th phase on the last boss after just missing the kill in the 4th phase, fatigue set in and I got sloppy and died to landing my jump wrong and getting exploded by a supplicant. The dungeon was fun, but it’s not a marathon. I don’t want to work on it for 4 hours as a solo for one run. I know that’s not as optimized as it could have been, but I threw the run together one night at 8:30pm and haven’t tried since, because it was a long and grindy session. I love dungeons, but a little scaling would go a long ways in making these more approachable, especially for people that don’t normally do solo content (the rest of my clan). For reference, I’ve solo flawlessed prophecy, and soloed shattered throne, grasp of avarice, and the hawkmoon one, and was always very close on the solos for the whisper and zero hour missions (the timers always got me in the last rooms), and have soloed grandmasters, so I’m not a slouch, I just really don’t think the dungeon experience needs to be 4-5 hours long for a solo run because you have to do 10-15 damage phases across two bosses. As an average-ish player, really appreciate this point being brought up.
Here for the hot-takes . Gladd, very true - there's a difference between tediousness and challenge. Spot on. Great Dungeon, just scale the damage per the fireteam. GGs on the Solo Flawless!
The boss health has to scale with the group size like in other in mmos. And for solo players if the boss health is too low just make the mechanics harder
@@alecll493 lmao your sentence doesnt make any sence, did you watch what gladd said? The Game literally has achievments and emblems for people who run the dungeons solo so its deffo meant to be soloed like that.
As much as I recognize that not everyone at Bungie has the authority to change everything within the game, it's pretty apparent that no one at Bungie tries soloing the bosses before release for them to get feedback to make good changes. Hell even if they did, they would change anything with how the last couple dungeons have dropped.
there's zero chance stuff gets released without people soloing it in QA testing. Especially since soloing it is one of the requirements for higher-level Guardian Ranks. So it's gotta be either (a) playtest guys' feedback isn't being addressed or (b) that type of solo experience is intended
My friend tried yesterday for 12 hours straight. He eventually got it but took him over 200 damage phases across lives to get a competent cycle down, then 8-10 for the final kill. The challenge felt fun to watch but got way too far gone after the 4th-5th phase. Totally agree here.
absolutely, it’s also the time commitment involved to go do that solo. the checkpoint saves were a good idea but then they reset the following week. Not just the experience of the time involved, but being able to set aside enough time to do it as there’s the fatigue of a high health boss that’s gated and i remember this on spire with the first boss, one silly mistake and it’s back to the start
@@Chloe_Cortana In some ways yes, others no. I can understand why Bungie did it, they don't want you to load a final boss CP and get the solo flawless triumph/emblem without actually completing the whole dungeon, but it would be nice if they could track CP's to know whether the whole run was solo or not imo
@@deceitive3338 that's what I meant moreso. Obviously just grabbing a final boss cp and doing it shouldn't count. But like yesterday I solo'd all the way to final boss and eventually gave up after like 3 hours with no real progress. I still have that final boss cp. I should be able to load back in still solo and have it count
The last solo flawless that i felt was really well balanced in terms of health and enemy density was Grasp. Mechanically it’s a little easy, but Avarokk is a fun solo experience while being challenging. I had to take MULTIPLE breaks during the Persys fight in my flawless run, the whole dungeon took me like 3 and a half hours with the largest chunk of that being Persys it is a huge huge slog to go though
Felt this way on the new dungeon, got to the first boss and I've been up to like 7 or 8 phases, it's grueling and exhausting, plus they added an overshield which is pointless so it takes even more sometimes, it's just very drawn out, I get him there and then there's just millions of adds in the middle of it that just constantly keep me low
My first experience with trying to solo flawless a dungeon was Spire. When I got to Akelous and realized it would take me 5 or maybe 6 phases to kill it, I just gave up after a couple of pulls. Went back to LFG and continued to 1-2phase the boss with the boys.
Yes, I completely agree here, I have a question for Bungie why do the dungeon bosses have the same health as the final boss from the source of nightmares? There's exactly 12 million health, when you go alone it's not normal. Why don't Bungie do like they did with companies and storylines, where if you go alone it's easier for you, and if 3 it's harder for you, why not do it in the dungeon, it took me phase 6 to kill the final boss, I'm just so fucked up to kill him, that I had a real feeling that this was a sponge for damage, here Bungie needs to lower his health
100% agreed! Hell even for duo it’s bad. My wife recently joined me in Destiny and we have built up to trying to duo our first dungeon. The density of enemies and boss health has been staggering. Mrs may be quitting soon as a result. 😥 I hope Bungie reconsiders and considers what to do for the more casual solo/duo players.
I got to the first boss solo on day 1 before my games crashed so I took a little brake, came back and saw an Esoterrick video of him soloing the first boss, saw how long it took even him to clear that boss and I haven't continued on my solo dungeon run since, it's just completely discouraging, even though I love the look and feel of the dungeon and really, really want to get my hands on that armour, maybe I'll try and solo it sometime in the future
The problem is the combination of huge health pools and the long mechanics on the final boss. I didn't mind spire as much cause the mechanics to reach the damage phase could be completed very quickly. But here on the final boss it takes fucking 10 mins to reach the damage phase and at that point it's just a chore.
This was Duality for me. I'm a pretty average Destiny player, and the difference between to trying to solo the first boss and doing it with just one other player is night and day. I know lots of people find it easy, and there are a thousand 'unkillable bonk hammer' builds, but I just find the set up time for the damage phase is so long, and the actual damage phase is so short, that I just get bored trying to solo it. Even with just one friend you can cut the prep time in half, or just have them start damage immediately, rather than trying to find the jumpy fuck. It goes from being a chore to actually being fun. If his health was lessened, or the damage timer was doubled, it would seem like less of a headache to me
Hard-core player here. Gladd hit the nail on the head. I had to run Lorely Titan/Syntho Hammers just to Solo Duality. The Dmg took forever, and it was a grind. Shattered Throne felt so much more reasonable. I used one two puch Hunter, but it felt like I could use anything.
First boss of the new dungeon has 15,000,000 hp. Second boss has 13,200,000 hp. Rhulk has 15,000,000 hp. Riven has 2,800,000 hp. There's no consistency.
Call me gatekeeping, elitist, whatever, idc what people says, I always thought they need to update riven's hp to the point where we can't even cheese it and done it legit at least 1 phases till the 'shot the pimples' phase. It's one of the best boss encounter ever and it's wasted.
Great points I felt this way starting with Duality. Because on top of a long boss phase there were three or four glitches that could insta-kill you. Not worth my time to run for 2 hours and die to a game glitch. Pit, Duality etc did not feel like drudgery like the newer Dungeons
This was even worse for pit since the difficulty spikes in the middle. Your encouraged to play super safe near the end and i ended up just going as slow as possible and 11 phasing zulmak in an hour long fight.
I personally prefer Dungeons over raids. I'm just not hot on 6 man activities, might be ADHD sensory issues but it gets a bit much everyone talking. A Dungeon with raid-heavy mechanics would be great and less focus on add-spam. Someone describe GotD perfectly. It's a tedious endurance race with very easy mechanics in an open dome area with nearly no vantage points and swarms of adds coming at you. Not really a challenge when it comes down to RNG if you happen to be looking in the right direction to see if she's spawned the moths in and how many times can you do it before you get clapped by a sudden damage spike in your 10 damage phases. I wish I could even say this is a problem of Bungie listening to the 1% of the 15% of players who engage in endgame content demanding everything be optimised and gigaclap them in one shot. But I think it's just lazy design, you can take the blueprint of Spire and Ghost is basically the same down to the slog of a boss room.
Yeah, I'd much rather do more complex mechanics with smaller health pools. Duality was a ton of fun for me, and the second encounter of Ghosts I actually like, but the first and third are brutal.
As for that 6 or 7 moth attack, it can only happen at the start of a new mechanic phase, if the knight is killed anywhere outside the correct area, and after lining up one of the taken king symbols. Knowing that makes it a lot easier, though regardless of how careful you are, it's still just shitty how you're stuck there so long something is bound to damage spike you out of nowhere that you won't see coming, and healing nade is like the only solution to it
Totally agree. This dungeon was the one thing i was looking forward to and having done the others solo flawless i was excited. After running it a couple of times with others though i can't say i'll be doing it, the whole thing is a slog especially the underwater part in the middle. I normally sherpa dungeons and help others but got to say with this one i can't be bothered to slog through this with people. Also as a warlock main now the main DPS build has been nerfed to the floor it's a struggle to get decent numbers out.
Dungeons remind me of Prison of Elders from D1 but on steroids, was always fun having three players as you said it is much easier to get enough people for
I solo flawlessed spire first try in about 90 minutes, and it was so boring. I think I was red bar health only 3 times, and it was just not fun to spend 7 phases on the harpy. I just don't want to do another solo flawless dungeon ever as it's not a test of skill, every class had builds so broken they can't die so it's not like the added time makes it harder.
Prophecy is the only solo flawless I’ve done but it just felt so good. The flow of the encounters just felt so good and smooth. It was like I had complete control of what was going on with no randomness involved. Loved it.
The bosses for duality are perfect health (they can be two phased if optimised on meta dungeon loadouts and easily 3 phased if putting in any effort). Spire and Ghosts health bars are the problematic ones.
You hit the nail on the head. I've a flawlessly solo on every dungeon except the one that dropped a few days ago. It gets boring and monotonous to have to go through 6 or more damage phases on a mini boss and final boss. Definitely needs to be scaled
BASED, thats why i didnt solo flawless Duality (amongst other reasons khm backpacks) and why i wont solo flawless GOTD as well. The reward isnt worth anymore the gruling time it takes to go through those dmg phases and the emblem isnt even that good to try it.
Duality might be the only dungeon I will ever *not* want to Solo Flawless simply because of the Nightmare Realm timer. I cannot for the life of me get passed the Vault without failing the timer some how, and I have no idea what to do. I can finally do Gahlran and I think if I can get passed the Vault I'll definitely be able to get Caiatl down.
100% agree. Scale the activity, the health pools are discouraging 😞 i was so excited as a newly minted day one raider and it changed my perception of the game. I wanted that challenge. But holy balls of fire im not running for my life for 1 hr 30+ to TRY and do like 10+ phases in a room that can never be cleared of adds and a boss that decided to dip at completely random times. 😂 maybe one day but my skill is fine. My patience doesnt have the longevity to deal with that. Lol. love the content! ❤
i agree, they dont have to take away 33% per player, but if it has 66% of its health its totally fine as a solo player. i was kinda mad, when i did around 2.2 mil dmg against the new boss in one phase and it was about 1/6 -1/8 health, i was kinda frustrated
I like the idea of scaling, and I think it’s proper to point out the design choice between “infinite phases allowed” vs an enrage timer. If there was an enrage after a few rounds, you can be confident Bungie is designing the encounter around that. As is, the difficulty can scale as high as they want and the design won’t reflect the desire to balance it for the solo run. Though, having done it solo flawless, I much preferred this to Spire. With Spire, you’ve got two bosses that take a long time to take down. In Ghosts, the first boss is pretty easily managed and the final boss has this frustratingly long pre-damage phase.
Spire of the watcher was definitely a huge damage check for me and I don’t know why but doing the solo run felt tedious once I got to the bosses because of the amount of damage phases needed (usually 5 and 6 if it’s very bad) (on hunter)
Me and my friend did an outbreak perfeted only spire of the watcher. It took an hour just to kill the first boss. We deciced to stop the run after that
Thank you so much I needed to hear this. I love to Solo stuff but like you said it is turning into a chore instead of a challenge that would be eventful.
100% agree. I tried it last night ( and I’ve solo flawlessed the other dungeons) and I got the first boss down to about 85% health and got immediately discouraged, it’s insane how they keep increasing the health pool on bosses and then never say anything about it
Also remember that with a fireteam of 3 someone can bring well and the others can bring a dps super while someone brings a tractor or div so the difference between 1 to 3 people is huge
The mechanics to reach the dps phase is also designed for 3 players so it takes a good while to get to the dps. And then you have to do that 12 times. I didnt solo Duality cause the standards are a giant chore to get. GOA hits the spot for me for dps mechanics
This man is preaching to the choir. My first dungeon solo was spire and it took me about 8 phases per boss. It takes a little bit too long to complete the encounter and with me the more time I spend in an encounter the more worried I get that I'll die and have to restart the encounter again.
I felt this when I was soloing Grasp of Avarice. The mechanic was easy but the boss DPS phases made the entire loop painfully long. Prophecy is the cream of the crop when it comes to solo dungeons, and in my eyes THE BEST dungeon.
I thoroughly agree on this, however with the new dugneon there is something more also added which impacts the soloing, its the adds during the damage phase. I've done the previous ones including spire, but spire already was excrusiating to solo flawless due to the boss hp, and that was pre linear nerf. In the new one there are so many adds that i cannot go with the ultimate dps build, have to focus on survivability also during the boss fights, which makes the it even slower to get the bosses down.
Don’t mind the bosses having large health pools. The issue comes from a really long setup for a really short dps phase. If it was a longer phase it would be fine imo. Ultimately they either need to reduce health or increase dps phase
Either have scaling based on the amount of players in the dungeon activity for bosses health or make the seasonal artifact mod that boosted damage for solo players from a previous season a permanent feature. This way it might ease up on the amount phases needed, it worked out pretty well with spire + the artifact mods don’t need to be equipped on armor anymore just my opinion tho.
I attempted to solo the Ghost of the Deep and I got to the final boss, but I gave up at the end and called in some help. I really only play the Hunter class and it took me 5 hours to do the dungeon all thanks to the insane boss health. I like the dungeon, it has a very cool aesthetic and cool lore implications, but it is so grueling and frustrating to do. I thought Spire was a hard solo, but Ghosts came in and said “Hold my Beer.” Currently I’ve only solo flawless Shattered Throne, Pit of Heresy, and Prophecy all on my hunter. The most recent dungeons have been such chore just to solo that I have mostly given up on flawless. Please Bungie, scale the dungeons for solo play. P.S. I feel really bad for the people who didn’t do Spire last season solo because if you want to level up your guardian rank then you need to solo the most recent dungeon. You have my sympathy.
Similar problem for me. For the last couple seasons I’ve also felt the seasonal activity’s feel too drawn out for such little reward that I only do 2-3 runs for the whole season
I’ve solo Flawlessed POH, and ST. And I’ve considered doing the recent ones, but the crazy health pools is prob gonna be what keeps me from doing them for now😅
Thanks for voicing this. I've wondered this for a while now. Not just boss health, but some mechanics too. Like more time in duality would be nice, or maybe having a dps phase after 1 vestige in ghosts of the deep for example. Mostly health though. I have the ability to solo but my thumbs were sore AF after doing spire solo and 8 phasing the bosses. I feel like i have the ability to do duality and ghosts of the deep, and would like to test my skills, but just cbf...
Dualitt boss health is really not bad, if you tginknyou can it go for it. The mechanics are what provide the most challenge, which is nice for a change when compared to ghosts or spire
Agreed! That first spire boss for me was about a 12 phase when I first did it lol shooting the eyes was an issue then being left with a very short dos time. Second time I ran it I think it was a 6 phase.
Nailed it perfectly. i've solo flawlessed every single dungeon in the game, and now i'm legitimately dreading doing the new one because, 6-7 phases **with a good build** is too long and boring. It's not challenging, it's not difficult, with my build i'll never be in danger of dying even once, it's just insanely tedious. They need to add scaling for this content reeeeally badly.
dude it takes like an an hour maybe an hour in a half for solo flawless its not tedious I think everyone thinks everyone should be able to get it thats not the case if your good at the game you'll get it just a skill check
In my opinion, once you've done three, maybe four phases flawlessly, you proven you can do it. You've proven that you have absolute mastery over the encounter. Needing to do six to eight, or even as much as 10 if you aren't 100% optimized, is more a test of patience and how good your internet is, than it is skill.
I gave this one a shot on solo day one. Got past the first encounter pretty easily, the mechanics weren't too hard and I could kill the majors painlessly. Really loved the jumping puzzle and traversing deeper and deeper into the ocean. It really had an awesome sense of scale to it! Then I got to Ecthar... I figured out the mechanics after dying my first attempt, then started doing damage on my second attempt and eventually I died. It was the result screen that tipped me off to how insane this dungeon was gonna be solo. I did 7.7 million damage, and was only a little past a third of his HP. Doing the math I figured it would take 15-20 damage phases for me to kill him at my current rate. Swapping to full surge mods, optimizing my loadout a bit more, and going my solar subclass instead of arc( I'm on Titan for this, so I have no well and my only hope is either Radiant or Weapons of Light for extra damage. I opted for solar just for survivability and buffed Burning Maul if I run out of heavy) cut down the required phases, but it was still so draining to get through all of that without dying once. At that point I said "Fuck this" and returned to orbit.
Finally someone is tooting my horn of personal suffering when it comes to solo dungeon experiences. My only experience was that of attempting solo Spire last season for GR11(the only thing i need for it too). It took me nearly 1hr to get to Akelous and then the suffering commenced, i was doing it on warlock and absolutely nothing was working for me, no weapon/sub-class combination clicked in my brain as "this will work for me". Of the 1.5ish hrs spent on that boss alone the best attempt i had was 2 very clean setup and dmg phases totalling maybe 15% boss hp at most, and that's when i threw in the towel and gave up. I was in a stream yesterday that i frequent daily as they were attempting to blind solo GoTD, they kinda figured out how to do the boss but gave up and got 2 others to finish out that run to see it's execution in preparation for the eventual solo flawless run. Meanwhile her twitch chat was a general discussion about solo dungeon experiences so i shared my story so everyone was then trying to understand my problems/helping me. I ended the discussion by saying thanks but it won't be happening. This video of yours and some of the comments has prompted this dump of mine so i'm going to give my thoughts on what would fix it enough for me to even give solo Spire another attempt. What i'm about to suggest is only relevant if bungie doesn't want to reduce ad density(not exact numbers but there purely to give an idea of what would work for me): - reduce overall enemy hp pools/increase outgoing player dmg(10% duo, 20/25% solo) - reduce incoming dmg to player(5% duo, 15% solo) The above changes would be retro-active for all dungeons too, any thoughts on my fix suggestions??
Yeah, I totally agree. Friend and I duo'd ghosts day 1 until the boss fight. When we saw how little damage we did in a dps phase we just gave up for now. It's not a litmus test for your build optimization, it's an endurance trial.
Man, I don't think I've ever disagreed more with any D2 statement ever. We are talking about SOLO-ing the dungeon. This is a thing that only has to be done ONCE ever for the title or triumph or whatever. That being said, it SHOULD be on the level of day 1 raids. It absolutely 110% should. SOLO-ing a dungeon is for the absolute elite-only players. It's one of the very few activities in this game that exists for the elites. FYI, I have zero solo flawless dungeon clears on my account, I just have the basic common sense to realize the truth. It's honestly pretty shocking hearing a skilled player like Gladd with this take. Pretty disappointed. Kudos to Bungie for this dungeon, you guys did a great job.
I absolutely love the solo dungeons. I love being able to challenge myself. And ive been stomped at Spire and now GotD. Its challenging to want to do the solo dungeons is the chonky health and just a lot for an average person who wants to have fun and do the challenge
The problem is the DPS jump from 1 player to even 2. With even 2 people, you can have a buff, debuff, a well, and a damage super as opposed to having to pick between a well or damage and a buff or debuff.
This! You've spoke directly to my disinterest in even trying to do the newest dungeon solo. Too much of a time suck and bore to do 5-7 mechanic/dps phases for a boss.
I've been trying to do solo Spire for a bit since I got it recently. I can ascend the spire fine, but without that much buildcrafting knowledge (returning player, a lot is different) it takes me probably 8-10 dps phases regardless of class. It's incredibly disheartening to get knocked off because I single jump a small gap and have the boss knock me off. It makes it difficult to even want to keep trying at it, especially when even just bringing one other person in makes it feel like a long strike.
Here are my takes on the current and future dungeons as it relates to solo players. 1. Ghost of the Deep - Add Ahsa's Blessings to encounters for solo players to give boosts to damage/ability generation and defensive options. Maybe solo operative could be enabled when alone as an alternative? Maybe each encounter has a buff you can select prior and it carries on through the dungeon? Maybe dungeon armor could also have mod slots that give these effects, similar to raids, but actually used by people. 2. Future Dungeons - For the release season (or first week or two), keep it scaled for three people, but still soloable. If you complete solo flawless, your emblem will have a gold trim. After the initial release period, enable scaling and then the solo flawless emblem will have a silver trim after that date. With either solo flawless emblem, when you wear the armor (or as ornaments) in the associated dungeon, your armor gets a glow effect. Completing a solo run afterwards gives that same glow effect outside of the dungeon too. 3. There needs to be a solo, checkpointed option that works across sessions for solo completions. Between the bosses taking so long and people needing a break, sometimes getting booted for being AFK too long, it can ruin an attempt. Also, error codes are a bitch. I had over 10 solo attempts of Spire ruined by error codes at various points. I have 4Gb fiber, business networking gear, and a dedicated gaming PC that doesn't have any superfluous apps running. I monitor my network with the same apps you see used by NOCs for large companies too. I know it isn't my side of things.
Thank you Gladd for being our larger voice to the developers!! Totally agree with everything you said. I’d say the added shield before being able to even do damage makes it feel even worse
Well said. I made all of the exact same points on stream the other day. Scale the health. Done. Also if the top tier want an extra challenge allow them to load in with 3 and then have two people leave if they want full health to show off a build.
I'm down right discouraged. I have solo flawless on the first 4 dungeons and I have no interest in doing the newest 2. Too much health, and too much time to invest.
I hear ya. I'd LOVE to do more solo Dungeons, but I'm not a super skilled D2 player. I'm Mid at best, although I try to get better, learn the patterns and stuff, but the scaling could be so much better.
I couldn’t agree more. I used to enjoy soloing dungeons but the last couple have huge health pools and is so drawn out.
Persys hurt you didn’t he?
@@cumsock2085 Not just him. I need therapy.
@@cumsock2085 yes… died to supplicant at a dick hair of health left.
Its kind of hard to enjoy the game in general since Lightfall when they removed all the mods for builds.
@@neosharkey7401 i reckon the mods are better than before
My idea is to add the Gambit Primeval slayer buff to dungeons when doing them solo. every time you complete a phase you get a higher multiplier on boss damage. that way 3 person dungeons still feel like normal content but solo players don't have to 10 phase a boss. just make it so every time you complete a dungeon mechanic you get Primeval Slayer x1 and it adds to it every time you complete a phase
this is a really good idea I can get behind.
Not a bad idea at all!
Hold up this is actually a great idea
Bungie owes you for this one friend.
even if its ONLY for a solo run of it, this would be FANTASTIC. 14 MILLION HP through 8 phases is just... why
Hell, even in a fireteam with GOOD BUILDS it took us 3 phases on day 1
For Spire of the Watcher, I could cope with the fact that the bosses health pool was so large, because the mechanics to reach damage phase could be completed with ease, and very quickly. With Ghosts of the Deep, there is way too much involved to get to the damage phase to justify having a shield to break, on top of the massive health pool. One scuffed damage phase feels so much worse now, because of the lengthy setup in between.
Agreed, everything but dealing damage was relatively easy.
there was no ads for spire final boss dps phase, this boss has dumb amount
Yep. I duo’d the dungeon with a Buddy, managed to kill her in 4 damage phases.
We were so hyped but were wondering why the ads were still shooting us.
… our dumb asses forgot to kill the ghost lol
She came back and we had to do another damage phase.. So yeah, there’s also that too
Its like an even worse Caital dps with even more setup
Boss just have way too much health.
I always thought the Prophecy boss was well designed. Semi chunky health and some nifty platforming during damage phase. But not to the point where it would take you a crazy amount of time once you got the mechanics down
It’s like a 3 phase solo for 3-5 mil damage it’s not bad at all
@@eveningswan4491 and the boss didn’t move around as much and it was easy to avoid it’s damage
prophecy in general is the perfect example of a dungeon, and antithesis to these recent bullet sponges. It was fast paced, few safespots, yet not drawn out at all. You learnt the rythm and mechanics then perfect them - Once you do you're done in 3 phases. Profit. I'd prefer more hectic but shorter fights.
Almost solo flawlessed it. Would of took me 10 ish phases
The right weapons help... arablast is pumping out 650,000 damage with one bullet when you hit his shield in damage phase. People just need to find the right weapons. Arablast is S++ tier for this dungeon solo
100% agree with your take! I'm all for difficult content, but having to fight bosses with 12mil HP solo is just not fun.
dont forget that it takes 10 minutes to activate dmg in the first place
@@giga-egg And the damage phase is like 1 minute or less.
@@LeonSkillsXB yeah lol
They def need to add a mode where it’s specifically geared towards soloing, that way they could adjust for the health pools. Because right now they have to balance a solo experience on top of a 3 man where it’s never been easier to stack buffs/debuff bosses. This is easily imo the best 3 man dungeon experience, but that will harm the solo
@@CoC_Lord They could reuse the group scaling from Legendary Campaign missions. Those tend to be too tanky for 3 man, though.
A couple points to add to this is the dungeon bosses being highly mobile while still being able to damage you during a damage phase and the fact that it feels like its balanced around having max resilience like it's base lvl
i get that bungie wants resil to matter but 35% or whatever it is now damage resistance is too unbalanced to the point where it’s required for endgame content. should be brought down to like 10-20% at 10 resil imo
@@parsnips16It's actually 30% now, and I think that's fine considering how you don't want to sacrifice mod slots to be just able to survive dregs just to be eviscerated by snipers or champions.
It's not just balanced around res, it balanced around being in a well of radiance. The last boss absolutely shreds you during damage phases, not to mention all the ads that spawn around her.
@@parsnips16 changing the ceiling doesn't actually fix anything. It's like minimum wage. It just shifts everything up or down equally. Unless they change the way they design the encounters, the max and min values don't matter.
@@MrNuclearz this is the real problem. Everything is balanced around the assumption that a fire team is going to have a well which makes for a garbage experience anytime you don't have one.
I agree. If you can execute 3-4 DPs phases on a dungeon boss consistently without dying, you have shown mastery over it. You shouldn't need to 1.5x or even double the time spent to prove it.
Literally this. Couldn’t have put it better myself.
4 should be max. that's why galhron was so fun. if you optimized perfectly, you could 1 phase him lol
So it’s better if we pay for content that’s as easy as strikes? lol I rather it be difficult, the entire thing to it is loadouts. Loadouts and skill issues.
@@boookythegod there's a difference between difficulty of execution and artificial difficulty through damage gates and absurd HP values. It's simply not fun or engaging to try to make something more difficult by making its health obnoxiously high (which is pure laziness). healthy difficulty would, or should be, accomplished through mechanics.
@@Masoch1st get better, like I said before skill issue. If some ppl can beat it, you can too. You don’t get better by complaining to make it easier. You get better by sitting down and actually playing. Learn spawns. Better weapons. Mods. Exotic armor + ability combos. If you aren’t thinking about all this before you enter a dungeon solo, you have no right to complain about dungeons… You aren’t even prepared. Dungeons would be a waste of 20 bucks if they made it as easy as strikes.
Something I’d like to point out with Ghost of the Deep specifically. Not only do the bosses have huge health bars, but that even after you do all the mechanics to start damage phase, you then have to take down ANOTHER shield JUST to be able to do actual damage (obviously you can use Arbalest to break it in one shot, but that’s besides the point), and those shields are a good half a million in health.
Well said and I hope this gets some traction with the devs at Bungie. All you have to do is look at Esoterickk's solo flawless video where the final boss is over half the video length, which is the exact thing Gladd is talking about where the average player gets discouraged. It's less a test of skill and more sheer luck that something stupid didn't happen to kill you during the marathon boss fights.
It was JUST his first run! Sheesh! He didn’t optimize fully in the first run. 🤷🏽♂️
Exactly!
@@narciszuz not sure if you’re joking or not, but a suboptimal Esoterickk build is still probably gonna be better than half the builds most players can come up with. The fact that one of the top Destiny endgame players spent that much time on one boss at all is immediately discouraging 90% of the player base from even wanting to attempt it.
@@eclipse4517 I solo’d it and I get it. That’s why itself content across the board.
Esoterick is also a known cheater
I totally agree with you here! During Season of the Seraph, there was this neat little perk called Solo Operative where you get a free 25% damage buff at all times so long as you're solo. With that buff it was an easy 4 to 5 phase on him. Now it takes at least 10 phases solo for that boss to die. It's just kind of ridiculous. They need to rework the scaling for the solo experience!!
I’ve soloed all dungeons and this is the first time I’m thinking maybe “nah”. Not only does the final boss have 12 million health but it has a shield. Lol
I swear it was 15%, 25% would’ve been way too op
@@BrainWasherAttendentuse arbalest to one shot the shields
I 100% agree. I don't class myself as that super mega 0.001% player you mentioned, but I have been able to solo flawless every dungeon so far. After my first run of the new dungeon, I very quickly noticed I just didn't want to solo this one. Both bosses are so tanky it's unbelievable. The more phases you are forced to do, the more chances of failure you have due to so many different variables. Trust me, I tried to solo the final boss, the amount of times I got decent dps phases and then one random moth blew up behind me and ruined my run? Yeah, way too many.
Scaling would fix EVERYTHING. That's it.
As long as you play safe and keep your health up, if you happen to get hit by a random moth, you should be fine.
The 6 or 7 moth attack can only happen at the start of a new mechanic phase, if the knight is killed anywhere outside the correct area, and after lining up each of the taken king symbols. Knowing that makes it a lot less annoying to deal with
I would class myself at the top 15-20% of players and I’ve been able to solo flawless every dungeon excluding the final boss in duality and ghosts. I don’t have top gear from raids to make it an easier experience because I’m a SOLO player. I can’t do those elaborate meta, quick-swap, bait and switch methods because I’m not a top 0.1% looking to optimize dps and I also play console which doesn’t make it easy to swap loadouts with the load times between menus. I don’t care if I can’t solo flawless, I really couldn’t, I just want to be able to solo the dungeon and get the exotic without having to rely on sketchy LFG teams broo.
I love how he explains the pros and cons. I live the challenge of having a solo flawless. I’ve done every dungeon solo flawless and spent so much time dying in the new deep dungeon on the final trying to practice and I can’t even get a single phase going when it’s feels unbearable. GG’s Gladd.
People complain when its to easy. When its hard you complain. Hard pleasing these no-lifes
But dungeons are not meant for solo players but I do get what u mean
@@alecll493 yeah man, sorry for voicing my opinion above all other than yours. My bad bro😂
@@w4yne3d61 they are based on team play but also built around a solo challenge for the above average player. Every single dungeon from the start will be able to solo. It’s for the challenge.
@@w4yne3d61 at the same time the game litterally gives us challenges and triumphs for exactly trying to beat these dungeons solo, and some solo flawlessly
This dungeon is literally a perfect solo outside of boss health. Cut down boss health 25-30% or have them have slightly more health than Caiatl and Gahlran and this dungeon is insanely good. The boss health forcing 40 minute to 1 hour plus final boss fights ruins the enjoyment of the solo experience and turns it into an endurance match that is slightly too much.
I dont mind boss health but to start dps is annoying especialy new dungeon kill enemy ,reveal symbols,kill knight while standing in plate(3 times)then go kill all 3 guardian donk while u have reaveal buff thats too much only to deal pitifull damage
spire was perfect boss is tough but atleast u start dps faast when meorize all nods
overall its good dungeon but solo will be challange
@@cangooz2240 spire was awful because the mechanic was brain dead and boring. This dungeon has engaging mechanics that arent raid level. It is very good.
exactly, with how much the boss moves around bungie could have atleast given less hp for it but no.
X4 the ads
Lucent butterflies everywhere (they one shot)
boss tracking me across the map
flinches like crazy and tps around like a maniac
Same hp as nezarec
crazy ass long mechanic to start dps (only to do a mosquito level dps because of the boss hp)
can we get that one bungie employee who thought this would be a fun solo experience to try and solo this?
@@risensensei yeah they obviously dont have anyone playtest the solo experience
its probably only 3 ppl who do the dungeon once
@@risensensei This is just a hard dungeon. We got an easy raid, now its compensating. We agree on boss health issues and I do think the boss hits too hard and doesnt give even moments break but the moths are a skill issue thing. Outside of the two complaints I just made this tops Duality as my favourite solo, but as it currently stands it is certainly stressful and draining to run that final boss room (I didnt think id get day one Solo Flaw of this, but managed it in the end). Even if left as is, it would be much nicer if the fight was only 20 minutes because by the end of it youre just drained.
It also just so happens that the boss's tendency to teleport to the worst possible places mid dpd phase worsens the hp problem. Cos the one thing worse than a boss with too much hp is one you can't hit.
I had that problem the other night, the boss had less than 15% of it's health left when we started DPS, it teleported and I completely lose it. I spent 80% of the remaining damage phase looking for the boss only to notice that it was directly above me, like literally 90 degrees above me. DPS ended with like 2% of it's hp left and it felt so bad because I just lost the boss in the midst of the chaos. My other fireteam members were able to find it but I was absolutely confused to what happened
I feel like the legendary Seraph Shield mission was an amazing example of a solo player friendly experience w/ challenge vs content like the recent dungeons or even the Avalon mission at Launch where everything feels like it was never meant for solos to begin with.
Hell no. Solo seraph mission was a breeze. Solo Avalon on launch is where the best difficulty was at. The whole thing was oppresive but fair, 1st boss could be 2 phased solo, and final boss' only hard part was the last phase if you weren't running well, which was still doable as long as you stayed on the run.
I soloed Avalon by mistake on the first run without even knowing what was going on with haphazard strand build without suspend, and i'm by no means a very good player, if i can do it, so can everyone else.
i miss seraphs shield 😢it was a perfect solo player challenge
@@voltus20 Legend Avalon solo was not fair. I did it, but I was actually sweating by the time the last boss finally dropped.
Legendary seraph shield solo was indeed a good one for the more casual solo player, although it wasn't really hard for any above average player..
@@voltus20 Elitist af take
The fact that spire of the watcher had seasonal modifiers at launch for extra solo damage AND a debuff and it still was a three to four phase for a well tuned loadout (yes elite players could get less phases) shows they were aware how much of a slog it was to tackle the bosses health bar.
I did spire solo last season and Akelous took me like 8-10 phases with an actually decent built and it was such a chafing experience, it wasn't even funny anymore at some point, just the same boring stuff over and over
I did Spire yesterday for the first time blind solo. And i quit at the harpy boss since after 3 damage phases i didnt even do ¼ of the boss' hp
Final boss is fine I think 5 phases at the max is fine for soloing but that first spire boss is fucking ridiculous that dungeon is easy but I had to sit there wiggling this dickheads health down and get kicked when I had him down to half
100% agree. Stopped bothering to do solo dungeons after Grasp, because of how boss fights became nothing but endurance tests.
duality does not have this problem and is honestly easier to kill bosses faster than grasp
Yeah I fully agree with gladd but imo the problem started with Spire. Grasp dmg phase is so long that makes it easier even though final boss is tanky as fuck
@@ethanmalolakis1750 nah Duality final boss is ASS solo
I mean its hard, but the dos is VERY doable and not bad at all. Its just killing bellkeepers that are hard
Grasp is the worst, it’s such a slog to do damage phases solo. Ends up being boring, not challenging.
Totally agree with this. It's kind of funny, because even the soundtracks are usually separated into 2-3 parts that each play after a set amount of dps phases. So when you do a solo run you just have this super intense soundtrack that plays for 30 minutes, keeping you on edge, and getting you quite exhausted by the end.
At risk of sounding contrarian, I have to say I actually prefer this. Mostly because 9/10 times with 3 people in a dungeon you can gigamelt the boss and completely miss the music and I typically want to hear it 1) because I might never lol and 2) because it sorts keeps me pumped. Ofc I understand you tho. Just my opin
When you can solo run Shattered Throne and kill Dul Incaru in less than 15 seconds, if you try to solo Duality and Spire is just gruelling. It's making more people want to solo these things, but they see how difficult they are and they just don't bother.
It's essentially the same thing as throwing you against Godfrey while you still have your starting weapons and armor.
IT IS NOT FUN
godfrey?
Duality is not tedious. Gahlran is, because he’s usually a 5-7 phase with Lament. However, Caiatl is a perfect example of a very challenging dungeon boss. I three phased her solo flawless, and many have solo’d her.
@@VanaHeim1 Elden Ring boss
Soloing should be a fun acitbity?? Bullshit
i soloed the shattered throne back in season of the lost then went on to prophecy and noticed the glaring issue instantly and honestly barely managed to get through it when that solo boost seasonal mod was here and then i swore to myself to never ever attempt to solo a dungeon ever again due to the way it was going and well i was right about the way it went lmao
I remember when I used to solo dungeons for fun back in Arrivals. That certainly doesn’t happen anymore. I also wish we had more dungeon encounters like Chamber of Suffering. Whatever happened to those? Now it’s two bosses and a more traversal encounter. The pressure and add density (back then, and no cheesing) was great. Wish we got more of those.
What about duality vault? One room (2 kinda) high adds, run relic with time limit. My guess is they think people prefer bosses over puzzles, wich i think tends to be true as often you see people count bosses as a metric of quality. But i agree more action encounters would be cool
I think chamber of suffering was a product of it's time. Back then, we weren't as tanky and couldn't spam abilities as often. An encounter like that nowadays would be pretty easy.
The new dungeon has fantastic difficulty for me. I love the mechanics and everything about it except for the obscene health pools for the bosses. It's genuinely just painful to try and solo.
12 mill boss health 😑😑😑
@@callummarks9600 First boss has 20 mill (If i'm correct)..
@@callummarks9600 thats how much Nezarec has and thats a problem if a dungeon boss has that much health
@@Razer5542 It is based on how many phases you do, as the shield counts as HP. So if you want a quick and easy time, Arbelest or Conditional Finality are mandatory for the first boss
I hate having to work hard to get to damage phase THEN having to destroy their shield THEN damage the boss and not do a lot of damage
This is sorta the same frustration a lot of people have with champions too, especially overloads--it restricts your build, and if you don't know how to stunlock an overload in particular you're just screwed. I personally think that tormentors were a fantastic take on a new difficult enemy type. They force you to be precise in order to kill them quickly, but you can use whatever dang loadout you want to do so. I hope we see more enemy design like that going forward.
Tormentors can actually scare as well as challenge you.
Champions have always been “why won’t you die! And quit ‘porting and spamming!” “oh hey a bigger uglier one that likes to get in your face…” “turtle heal turtle heal be a shame to pop”
Always been tedious or a chore, or pads playtime idk. Stasis made a decent enough change up, but in master LOst sectors or grandmasters. Strategies that worked below them in level no long sustain as they become op. (Overloads when stunned still heal and not a second after will unstun and spam their abilities…) (barriers are more on a hair trigger with attack spam) (unstoppables have a larger health pool)
So you have to be absolutely overwhelming.
Downside of tormentors is bungo insist on throwing them at you next to bottomless pits (jump slam suppression = instant death) and their grab foes 70% total life damage while stun locking you for 4-5 seconds. A single Miss-step and you are Instakills meanwhile the boss is spamming 10-20 adds in the bleachers to do chip damage at all times.
Players enjoy SOLO dungeons based on personal achievement, fun, etc. The energy has definitely shifted to be something not really about skill or effectiveness but to how much stamina one has. It is tedious, agitating and kinda leaves you sour about that particular experience. Challenges are always welcome but bosses HP should be logically at 3-5 phases for a committed player.
stamina but more importantly patience lol
That’s exactly it. The moment I started going “let’s just see how long I can last” I started going for about 4 hours before I just said “not worth it, done this many times before and the normal emblem looks better anyway”
So much this, very well said mate. Was into soloing every dungeon, but the last 2 are just too tedious when it comes down to boss health. Soloed flawlessly duality only after optimizing my build for the 2 bosses, but spire and ghosts are just a very annoying slog !
the newest dungeon feels like a chore to do with the drawn out first encounter, the long overstayed jump puzzle, and the absurd amount of boss health. the art and story were peak tho
I think duality is a prime example of getting it right. It's a hard solo but you can at least two phase both bosses if you are playing well. This makes things difficult but not sloggish.
The only real danger about duality is the amount of bugs and the darn cabal backpacks that will nuke you 🤣
@@Razer5542 facts, the bugs do be annoying
That is very true, especially after it's been overleveled, but at least that still forces you to play with some level of awareness
@@Razer5542 just shoot the backpacks. if you play smart, they arent an issue at all. source: i solo flawlessed master. also the bugs are somewhat easy to avoid if you know where not to stand. and to be clear, you aren't wrong, but a slight change in strategy and that problem goes away.
I totally agree. My solo flawless for spire was just an endurance test that was boring toward the end. Not sure if I’ll try this one for solo play. Thanks for your voice Gladd!
i can see them nerfing the boss health. it's probably the biggest complaint so far. thanks for talking about this! im sure bungie will see it especially when big content creators are voicing this issue
Totally agree. I am sure we will figure out some more optimal strats for the new dungeon, but if it takes anything more than 6-8 phases for the solo, I wont touch it. I have done, Prophecy, Shattered Throne, Pit, Grasp all solo flawless but these newer ones i havent tried cause it seems you have to be the goat to get it done, or a robot with 1000000 stamina.
It shouldn't. I messed up a bit, and I was set up for a 6 or 7 phase last night. Used witherhoard and the bait and switch cataclysmic for boss
My game crashed super close towards my 6th phase when the boss was at a quarter health ruining my 6 hour run, but it is what it is.
Caitel is a pain but give spire a try. Its super ez to solo flawless because even if you fail a damage phase its so easy to get another one quickly. Thats my problem with the new dungeon. It takes 15 different mechanic just to get to the damage phase with almost no room for mistakes.
Thank you for being the voice we needed Gladd!
With the exception of Shattered Throne, I have always soloed Dungeons first before going in with a team, I personally liked the challenge and helped me understand the mechanics better. But since duality I noticed that the whole experience was becoming more a chore than an actually enjoyable activity. Ads felts like they were always out of control, constantly spawning and the bosses started to take multiple damage phases, and by multiple I mean 5-6 phases. Spire took me around 6-7 phases (can't remember anymore) to complete the first time. For this new one, I tried soloing the boss (for a bit) but when I realized that I was barely doing 1/10 or 1/8th of damage I said not this time, I really have better things to do right now. I do like the dungeon though, its a nicely done one, but not this time bungie... or maybe I am just getting too old for this
Nah my buddy who is the biggest destiny nerd and player i know was saying the same thing. If everyone is saying the same thing than Bungie might need to take a hint
I feel you, I finally had the time to try solo Spire the other day and it took me 6 phases for each boss with optimal loudouts and loudout switching to maximise damage. It was just pure tedium rather than a challenge, made the whole experience feel like a chore I had to sit through. Bungie definitely needs to address this, especially since they themselves push the narrative that people should try soloing dungeons.
@@ViccyTheThiccy I thought they learned from D1 that lots of health does not make the game more fun. When it starts to feel less challenging and more of a choir is when I just turn the game off
Absolutely love and agree with this. After 7 phasing akelos in spire, I went into my 5th phase on the last boss after just missing the kill in the 4th phase, fatigue set in and I got sloppy and died to landing my jump wrong and getting exploded by a supplicant. The dungeon was fun, but it’s not a marathon. I don’t want to work on it for 4 hours as a solo for one run. I know that’s not as optimized as it could have been, but I threw the run together one night at 8:30pm and haven’t tried since, because it was a long and grindy session. I love dungeons, but a little scaling would go a long ways in making these more approachable, especially for people that don’t normally do solo content (the rest of my clan). For reference, I’ve solo flawlessed prophecy, and soloed shattered throne, grasp of avarice, and the hawkmoon one, and was always very close on the solos for the whisper and zero hour missions (the timers always got me in the last rooms), and have soloed grandmasters, so I’m not a slouch, I just really don’t think the dungeon experience needs to be 4-5 hours long for a solo run because you have to do 10-15 damage phases across two bosses. As an average-ish player, really appreciate this point being brought up.
Here for the hot-takes . Gladd, very true - there's a difference between tediousness and challenge. Spot on. Great Dungeon, just scale the damage per the fireteam. GGs on the Solo Flawless!
The boss health has to scale with the group size like in other in mmos. And for solo players if the boss health is too low just make the mechanics harder
Bungie is too lazy and the game/engine is too fcked to do that.
No. A dungeon is a team avtivity. I get ut un the campaign BUT IT IS NOT MEANT TO BE SOLOED. It males sense its difficult
@@alecll493 lmao your sentence doesnt make any sence, did you watch what gladd said? The Game literally has achievments and emblems for people who run the dungeons solo so its deffo meant to be soloed like that.
@@alecll493 dungeons are literally designed and incentivised to be completed solo. Have you ever seen the requirements to reach rank 11?
@@NoSmoke1 bro. They are not . They are clearly not. It is posed as a challenge y is not designed for solo.
As much as I recognize that not everyone at Bungie has the authority to change everything within the game, it's pretty apparent that no one at Bungie tries soloing the bosses before release for them to get feedback to make good changes. Hell even if they did, they would change anything with how the last couple dungeons have dropped.
there's zero chance stuff gets released without people soloing it in QA testing. Especially since soloing it is one of the requirements for higher-level Guardian Ranks.
So it's gotta be either (a) playtest guys' feedback isn't being addressed or (b) that type of solo experience is intended
My friend tried yesterday for 12 hours straight. He eventually got it but took him over 200 damage phases across lives to get a competent cycle down, then 8-10 for the final kill. The challenge felt fun to watch but got way too far gone after the 4th-5th phase. Totally agree here.
8-10 is far too many. his strategy was pretty bad. its definitely a 5-7 phase if done right, and you dont need to optimize THAT much.
absolutely, it’s also the time commitment involved to go do that solo. the checkpoint saves were a good idea but then they reset the following week. Not just the experience of the time involved, but being able to set aside enough time to do it as there’s the fatigue of a high health boss that’s gated and i remember this on spire with the first boss, one silly mistake and it’s back to the start
You have to complete it without leaving for the triumphs, loading a checkpoint wont work unfortunately. Cant leave and come back to it later
That is also ridiculous that you can't just load from a checkpoint
@@Chloe_Cortana In some ways yes, others no. I can understand why Bungie did it, they don't want you to load a final boss CP and get the solo flawless triumph/emblem without actually completing the whole dungeon, but it would be nice if they could track CP's to know whether the whole run was solo or not imo
@@deceitive3338 that's what I meant moreso. Obviously just grabbing a final boss cp and doing it shouldn't count. But like yesterday I solo'd all the way to final boss and eventually gave up after like 3 hours with no real progress. I still have that final boss cp. I should be able to load back in still solo and have it count
@@Chloe_Cortana Yeah completely agree, especially with how long the encounters can take to clear with boss HP... Sometimes you just need a break lol
The last solo flawless that i felt was really well balanced in terms of health and enemy density was Grasp. Mechanically it’s a little easy, but Avarokk is a fun solo experience while being challenging. I had to take MULTIPLE breaks during the Persys fight in my flawless run, the whole dungeon took me like 3 and a half hours with the largest chunk of that being Persys it is a huge huge slog to go though
Felt this way on the new dungeon, got to the first boss and I've been up to like 7 or 8 phases, it's grueling and exhausting, plus they added an overshield which is pointless so it takes even more sometimes, it's just very drawn out, I get him there and then there's just millions of adds in the middle of it that just constantly keep me low
For the first time ever I came to YT for help on a dungeon boss and I see this. Glad(d) I’m not alone on this
My first experience with trying to solo flawless a dungeon was Spire. When I got to Akelous and realized it would take me 5 or maybe 6 phases to kill it, I just gave up after a couple of pulls. Went back to LFG and continued to 1-2phase the boss with the boys.
Artifitial difficulty, those are the only words I was hoping to hear 😌. Hope the team sees this and we get some kind of feedback
Yes, I completely agree here, I have a question for Bungie why do the dungeon bosses have the same health as the final boss from the source of nightmares? There's exactly 12 million health, when you go alone it's not normal. Why don't Bungie do like they did with companies and storylines, where if you go alone it's easier for you, and if 3 it's harder for you, why not do it in the dungeon, it took me phase 6 to kill the final boss, I'm just so fucked up to kill him, that I had a real feeling that this was a sponge for damage, here Bungie needs to lower his health
100% agreed! Hell even for duo it’s bad. My wife recently joined me in Destiny and we have built up to trying to duo our first dungeon. The density of enemies and boss health has been staggering. Mrs may be quitting soon as a result. 😥 I hope Bungie reconsiders and considers what to do for the more casual solo/duo players.
I got to the first boss solo on day 1 before my games crashed so I took a little brake, came back and saw an Esoterrick video of him soloing the first boss, saw how long it took even him to clear that boss and I haven't continued on my solo dungeon run since, it's just completely discouraging, even though I love the look and feel of the dungeon and really, really want to get my hands on that armour, maybe I'll try and solo it sometime in the future
The problem is the combination of huge health pools and the long mechanics on the final boss. I didn't mind spire as much cause the mechanics to reach the damage phase could be completed very quickly. But here on the final boss it takes fucking 10 mins to reach the damage phase and at that point it's just a chore.
This was Duality for me. I'm a pretty average Destiny player, and the difference between to trying to solo the first boss and doing it with just one other player is night and day. I know lots of people find it easy, and there are a thousand 'unkillable bonk hammer' builds, but I just find the set up time for the damage phase is so long, and the actual damage phase is so short, that I just get bored trying to solo it. Even with just one friend you can cut the prep time in half, or just have them start damage immediately, rather than trying to find the jumpy fuck. It goes from being a chore to actually being fun. If his health was lessened, or the damage timer was doubled, it would seem like less of a headache to me
Hard-core player here. Gladd hit the nail on the head. I had to run Lorely Titan/Syntho Hammers just to Solo Duality. The Dmg took forever, and it was a grind. Shattered Throne felt so much more reasonable. I used one two puch Hunter, but it felt like I could use anything.
First boss of the new dungeon has 15,000,000 hp.
Second boss has 13,200,000 hp.
Rhulk has 15,000,000 hp.
Riven has 2,800,000 hp.
There's no consistency.
in essence they are a bit lower because if you do more phases you have to destroy another shield for each phase. I think final boss has 9mil health
I think they need to go back and reassess the health of all raid and dungeon bosses in the game
Call me gatekeeping, elitist, whatever, idc what people says, I always thought they need to update riven's hp to the point where we can't even cheese it and done it legit at least 1 phases till the 'shot the pimples' phase. It's one of the best boss encounter ever and it's wasted.
@@tompramanaaccount8892 agreed
@@tompramanaaccount8892 Thats not even gatekeeping, this should be in the game to improve the health of last wish
Great points I felt this way starting with Duality. Because on top of a long boss phase there were three or four glitches that could insta-kill you. Not worth my time to run for 2 hours and die to a game glitch. Pit, Duality etc did not feel like drudgery like the newer Dungeons
I've always liked the idea of putting the same difficulty change as in the legendary campaign (more people = more resistant enemies)
Bungie would just overdo the scaling for 3 people rather than aid solo players.
This was even worse for pit since the difficulty spikes in the middle. Your encouraged to play super safe near the end and i ended up just going as slow as possible and 11 phasing zulmak in an hour long fight.
I personally prefer Dungeons over raids. I'm just not hot on 6 man activities, might be ADHD sensory issues but it gets a bit much everyone talking. A Dungeon with raid-heavy mechanics would be great and less focus on add-spam. Someone describe GotD perfectly. It's a tedious endurance race with very easy mechanics in an open dome area with nearly no vantage points and swarms of adds coming at you.
Not really a challenge when it comes down to RNG if you happen to be looking in the right direction to see if she's spawned the moths in and how many times can you do it before you get clapped by a sudden damage spike in your 10 damage phases.
I wish I could even say this is a problem of Bungie listening to the 1% of the 15% of players who engage in endgame content demanding everything be optimised and gigaclap them in one shot. But I think it's just lazy design, you can take the blueprint of Spire and Ghost is basically the same down to the slog of a boss room.
Yeah, I'd much rather do more complex mechanics with smaller health pools. Duality was a ton of fun for me, and the second encounter of Ghosts I actually like, but the first and third are brutal.
As for that 6 or 7 moth attack, it can only happen at the start of a new mechanic phase, if the knight is killed anywhere outside the correct area, and after lining up one of the taken king symbols.
Knowing that makes it a lot easier, though regardless of how careful you are, it's still just shitty how you're stuck there so long something is bound to damage spike you out of nowhere that you won't see coming, and healing nade is like the only solution to it
Totally agree. This dungeon was the one thing i was looking forward to and having done the others solo flawless i was excited. After running it a couple of times with others though i can't say i'll be doing it, the whole thing is a slog especially the underwater part in the middle. I normally sherpa dungeons and help others but got to say with this one i can't be bothered to slog through this with people.
Also as a warlock main now the main DPS build has been nerfed to the floor it's a struggle to get decent numbers out.
Dungeons remind me of Prison of Elders from D1 but on steroids, was always fun having three players as you said it is much easier to get enough people for
They just made the problem worse in Final Shape. They did a boss heath buff. It’s actually insane how out of touch Bungie is.
I solo flawlessed spire first try in about 90 minutes, and it was so boring. I think I was red bar health only 3 times, and it was just not fun to spend 7 phases on the harpy. I just don't want to do another solo flawless dungeon ever as it's not a test of skill, every class had builds so broken they can't die so it's not like the added time makes it harder.
Prophecy is the only solo flawless I’ve done but it just felt so good. The flow of the encounters just felt so good and smooth. It was like I had complete control of what was going on with no randomness involved. Loved it.
Prophecy is easy tho there’s no challenge lol if anyone can’t flawless that dungeon I’d go back to Minecraft
@@DemiAUS it wasn't easy at release tho lol, i guarantee you haven't tried it back then.
@@DemiAUS also nice way to bob and weave around the point he was making.
@@DemiAUSYou are being a asshole, leave the man have fun with his game.
It's not always all about competition.
@@DemiAUSwow you’re sooo coool, you can play destiny by yourself, so much talent
I completely agree I was attempting a solo flawless duality run the other day and it took that many phases for bosses that I got bored and logged off
The bosses for duality are perfect health (they can be two phased if optimised on meta dungeon loadouts and easily 3 phased if putting in any effort). Spire and Ghosts health bars are the problematic ones.
@@SANDYkinz really? I don't know wat loadout 2 use then
Skill issue. Bosses in duality are 3 phase max
@@Arctis326 ok dick🤣🤣
Is it still bugged?
I hear that people's solo flawless experience gets ruined because of a bug.
You hit the nail on the head. I've a flawlessly solo on every dungeon except the one that dropped a few days ago. It gets boring and monotonous to have to go through 6 or more damage phases on a mini boss and final boss. Definitely needs to be scaled
BASED, thats why i didnt solo flawless Duality (amongst other reasons khm backpacks) and why i wont solo flawless GOTD as well.
The reward isnt worth anymore the gruling time it takes to go through those dmg phases and the emblem isnt even that good to try it.
Duality might be the only dungeon I will ever *not* want to Solo Flawless simply because of the Nightmare Realm timer. I cannot for the life of me get passed the Vault without failing the timer some how, and I have no idea what to do. I can finally do Gahlran and I think if I can get passed the Vault I'll definitely be able to get Caiatl down.
100% agree. Scale the activity, the health pools are discouraging 😞 i was so excited as a newly minted day one raider and it changed my perception of the game. I wanted that challenge. But holy balls of fire im not running for my life for 1 hr 30+ to TRY and do like 10+ phases in a room that can never be cleared of adds and a boss that decided to dip at completely random times. 😂 maybe one day but my skill is fine. My patience doesnt have the longevity to deal with that. Lol.
love the content! ❤
i agree, they dont have to take away 33% per player, but if it has 66% of its health its totally fine as a solo player. i was kinda mad, when i did around 2.2 mil dmg against the new boss in one phase and it was about 1/6 -1/8 health, i was kinda frustrated
I like the idea of scaling, and I think it’s proper to point out the design choice between “infinite phases allowed” vs an enrage timer. If there was an enrage after a few rounds, you can be confident Bungie is designing the encounter around that. As is, the difficulty can scale as high as they want and the design won’t reflect the desire to balance it for the solo run.
Though, having done it solo flawless, I much preferred this to Spire. With Spire, you’ve got two bosses that take a long time to take down. In Ghosts, the first boss is pretty easily managed and the final boss has this frustratingly long pre-damage phase.
Spire of the watcher was definitely a huge damage check for me and I don’t know why but doing the solo run felt tedious once I got to the bosses because of the amount of damage phases needed (usually 5 and 6 if it’s very bad) (on hunter)
Me and my friend did an outbreak perfeted only spire of the watcher. It took an hour just to kill the first boss. We deciced to stop the run after that
Not to mention the rewards are getting worse. Last shader was 3 dungeons ago. No ship shader or ghost shell with this dungeon for solo/flawless
in fairness people do it for the flawless emblem
@@andrew1250Correct me if I'm wrong but you can still get flawless emblem even with 2 other people?
Or am i just trippin😅
@@slashthe2nd flawless can be done with a fireteam, but usually solo flawless has its own triumph, like Spire’s cowskull emblem
@@slashthe2nd Yeah as Elimo said, the emblem is for solo flawless, for team flawless there is a just a triumph
Thank you so much I needed to hear this.
I love to Solo stuff but like you said it is turning into a chore instead of a challenge that would be eventful.
100% agree. I tried it last night ( and I’ve solo flawlessed the other dungeons) and I got the first boss down to about 85% health and got immediately discouraged, it’s insane how they keep increasing the health pool on bosses and then never say anything about it
Also remember that with a fireteam of 3 someone can bring well and the others can bring a dps super while someone brings a tractor or div so the difference between 1 to 3 people is huge
The mechanics to reach the dps phase is also designed for 3 players so it takes a good while to get to the dps. And then you have to do that 12 times. I didnt solo Duality cause the standards are a giant chore to get. GOA hits the spot for me for dps mechanics
esoterrik took 1 HOUR and TWENTY MINUTES! and hes like the best solo player out there
This man is preaching to the choir. My first dungeon solo was spire and it took me about 8 phases per boss. It takes a little bit too long to complete the encounter and with me the more time I spend in an encounter the more worried I get that I'll die and have to restart the encounter again.
I felt this when I was soloing Grasp of Avarice. The mechanic was easy but the boss DPS phases made the entire loop painfully long. Prophecy is the cream of the crop when it comes to solo dungeons, and in my eyes THE BEST dungeon.
I thoroughly agree on this, however with the new dugneon there is something more also added which impacts the soloing, its the adds during the damage phase. I've done the previous ones including spire, but spire already was excrusiating to solo flawless due to the boss hp, and that was pre linear nerf. In the new one there are so many adds that i cannot go with the ultimate dps build, have to focus on survivability also during the boss fights, which makes the it even slower to get the bosses down.
Don’t mind the bosses having large health pools. The issue comes from a really long setup for a really short dps phase. If it was a longer phase it would be fine imo. Ultimately they either need to reduce health or increase dps phase
Went over this type of conversation with my buds the other night, i took this EXACT take. We need more of this type of content.
This is so accurate. I loved soloing dungeons until Duality came out. I don’t always have 5 freakin hours to sit down and solo a dungeon.
Either have scaling based on the amount of players in the dungeon activity for bosses health or make the seasonal artifact mod that boosted damage for solo players from a previous season a permanent feature. This way it might ease up on the amount phases needed, it worked out pretty well with spire + the artifact mods don’t need to be equipped on armor anymore just my opinion tho.
I attempted to solo the Ghost of the Deep and I got to the final boss, but I gave up at the end and called in some help. I really only play the Hunter class and it took me 5 hours to do the dungeon all thanks to the insane boss health. I like the dungeon, it has a very cool aesthetic and cool lore implications, but it is so grueling and frustrating to do. I thought Spire was a hard solo, but Ghosts came in and said “Hold my Beer.” Currently I’ve only solo flawless Shattered Throne, Pit of Heresy, and Prophecy all on my hunter. The most recent dungeons have been such chore just to solo that I have mostly given up on flawless. Please Bungie, scale the dungeons for solo play.
P.S. I feel really bad for the people who didn’t do Spire last season solo because if you want to level up your guardian rank then you need to solo the most recent dungeon. You have my sympathy.
Similar problem for me. For the last couple seasons I’ve also felt the seasonal activity’s feel too drawn out for such little reward that I only do 2-3 runs for the whole season
I’ve solo Flawlessed POH, and ST. And I’ve considered doing the recent ones, but the crazy health pools is prob gonna be what keeps me from doing them for now😅
Thanks for voicing this. I've wondered this for a while now. Not just boss health, but some mechanics too. Like more time in duality would be nice, or maybe having a dps phase after 1 vestige in ghosts of the deep for example. Mostly health though. I have the ability to solo but my thumbs were sore AF after doing spire solo and 8 phasing the bosses. I feel like i have the ability to do duality and ghosts of the deep, and would like to test my skills, but just cbf...
Dualitt boss health is really not bad, if you tginknyou can it go for it. The mechanics are what provide the most challenge, which is nice for a change when compared to ghosts or spire
Agreed! That first spire boss for me was about a 12 phase when I first did it lol shooting the eyes was an issue then being left with a very short dos time. Second time I ran it I think it was a 6 phase.
Nailed it perfectly. i've solo flawlessed every single dungeon in the game, and now i'm legitimately dreading doing the new one because, 6-7 phases **with a good build** is too long and boring. It's not challenging, it's not difficult, with my build i'll never be in danger of dying even once, it's just insanely tedious. They need to add scaling for this content reeeeally badly.
dude it takes like an an hour maybe an hour in a half for solo flawless its not tedious I think everyone thinks everyone should be able to get it thats not the case if your good at the game you'll get it just a skill check
In my opinion, once you've done three, maybe four phases flawlessly, you proven you can do it. You've proven that you have absolute mastery over the encounter.
Needing to do six to eight, or even as much as 10 if you aren't 100% optimized, is more a test of patience and how good your internet is, than it is skill.
I gave this one a shot on solo day one.
Got past the first encounter pretty easily, the mechanics weren't too hard and I could kill the majors painlessly.
Really loved the jumping puzzle and traversing deeper and deeper into the ocean. It really had an awesome sense of scale to it!
Then I got to Ecthar...
I figured out the mechanics after dying my first attempt, then started doing damage on my second attempt and eventually I died. It was the result screen that tipped me off to how insane this dungeon was gonna be solo. I did 7.7 million damage, and was only a little past a third of his HP.
Doing the math I figured it would take 15-20 damage phases for me to kill him at my current rate. Swapping to full surge mods, optimizing my loadout a bit more, and going my solar subclass instead of arc( I'm on Titan for this, so I have no well and my only hope is either Radiant or Weapons of Light for extra damage. I opted for solar just for survivability and buffed Burning Maul if I run out of heavy) cut down the required phases, but it was still so draining to get through all of that without dying once.
At that point I said "Fuck this" and returned to orbit.
Finally someone is tooting my horn of personal suffering when it comes to solo dungeon experiences. My only experience was that of attempting solo Spire last season for GR11(the only thing i need for it too). It took me nearly 1hr to get to Akelous and then the suffering commenced, i was doing it on warlock and absolutely nothing was working for me, no weapon/sub-class combination clicked in my brain as "this will work for me". Of the 1.5ish hrs spent on that boss alone the best attempt i had was 2 very clean setup and dmg phases totalling maybe 15% boss hp at most, and that's when i threw in the towel and gave up.
I was in a stream yesterday that i frequent daily as they were attempting to blind solo GoTD, they kinda figured out how to do the boss but gave up and got 2 others to finish out that run to see it's execution in preparation for the eventual solo flawless run. Meanwhile her twitch chat was a general discussion about solo dungeon experiences so i shared my story so everyone was then trying to understand my problems/helping me. I ended the discussion by saying thanks but it won't be happening.
This video of yours and some of the comments has prompted this dump of mine so i'm going to give my thoughts on what would fix it enough for me to even give solo Spire another attempt. What i'm about to suggest is only relevant if bungie doesn't want to reduce ad density(not exact numbers but there purely to give an idea of what would work for me):
- reduce overall enemy hp pools/increase outgoing player dmg(10% duo, 20/25% solo)
- reduce incoming dmg to player(5% duo, 15% solo)
The above changes would be retro-active for all dungeons too, any thoughts on my fix suggestions??
Yeah, I totally agree. Friend and I duo'd ghosts day 1 until the boss fight. When we saw how little damage we did in a dps phase we just gave up for now. It's not a litmus test for your build optimization, it's an endurance trial.
Man, I don't think I've ever disagreed more with any D2 statement ever. We are talking about SOLO-ing the dungeon. This is a thing that only has to be done ONCE ever for the title or triumph or whatever. That being said, it SHOULD be on the level of day 1 raids. It absolutely 110% should. SOLO-ing a dungeon is for the absolute elite-only players. It's one of the very few activities in this game that exists for the elites. FYI, I have zero solo flawless dungeon clears on my account, I just have the basic common sense to realize the truth. It's honestly pretty shocking hearing a skilled player like Gladd with this take. Pretty disappointed. Kudos to Bungie for this dungeon, you guys did a great job.
I absolutely love the solo dungeons. I love being able to challenge myself. And ive been stomped at Spire and now GotD. Its challenging to want to do the solo dungeons is the chonky health and just a lot for an average person who wants to have fun and do the challenge
The problem is the DPS jump from 1 player to even 2. With even 2 people, you can have a buff, debuff, a well, and a damage super as opposed to having to pick between a well or damage and a buff or debuff.
This! You've spoke directly to my disinterest in even trying to do the newest dungeon solo. Too much of a time suck and bore to do 5-7 mechanic/dps phases for a boss.
Another issue ive noticed is deepsight takes ages to activate, and the boss shoots like a warthog at all times
Completely agree. I don’t find myself discouraged - I just end up bored & tired of doing it after so many phases of the exact same thing.
I've been trying to do solo Spire for a bit since I got it recently. I can ascend the spire fine, but without that much buildcrafting knowledge (returning player, a lot is different) it takes me probably 8-10 dps phases regardless of class. It's incredibly disheartening to get knocked off because I single jump a small gap and have the boss knock me off. It makes it difficult to even want to keep trying at it, especially when even just bringing one other person in makes it feel like a long strike.
Here are my takes on the current and future dungeons as it relates to solo players.
1. Ghost of the Deep - Add Ahsa's Blessings to encounters for solo players to give boosts to damage/ability generation and defensive options. Maybe solo operative could be enabled when alone as an alternative? Maybe each encounter has a buff you can select prior and it carries on through the dungeon? Maybe dungeon armor could also have mod slots that give these effects, similar to raids, but actually used by people.
2. Future Dungeons - For the release season (or first week or two), keep it scaled for three people, but still soloable. If you complete solo flawless, your emblem will have a gold trim. After the initial release period, enable scaling and then the solo flawless emblem will have a silver trim after that date. With either solo flawless emblem, when you wear the armor (or as ornaments) in the associated dungeon, your armor gets a glow effect. Completing a solo run afterwards gives that same glow effect outside of the dungeon too.
3. There needs to be a solo, checkpointed option that works across sessions for solo completions. Between the bosses taking so long and people needing a break, sometimes getting booted for being AFK too long, it can ruin an attempt. Also, error codes are a bitch. I had over 10 solo attempts of Spire ruined by error codes at various points. I have 4Gb fiber, business networking gear, and a dedicated gaming PC that doesn't have any superfluous apps running. I monitor my network with the same apps you see used by NOCs for large companies too. I know it isn't my side of things.
Thank you Gladd for being our larger voice to the developers!! Totally agree with everything you said. I’d say the added shield before being able to even do damage makes it feel even worse
Well said. I made all of the exact same points on stream the other day. Scale the health. Done. Also if the top tier want an extra challenge allow them to load in with 3 and then have two people leave if they want full health to show off a build.
I'm down right discouraged. I have solo flawless on the first 4 dungeons and I have no interest in doing the newest 2. Too much health, and too much time to invest.
I hear ya. I'd LOVE to do more solo Dungeons, but I'm not a super skilled D2 player. I'm Mid at best, although I try to get better, learn the patterns and stuff, but the scaling could be so much better.