SaltEMike Reacts to Alpha 4.0 Is Star Citizen's Biggest Update Yet | Space Tomato
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- Опубліковано 28 тра 2024
- The Video - • Alpha 4.0 Is Star Citi...
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Double the size of the sandbox, SMOOTH OUT THE SAND, then add toys to it.
Im okay with that idea.
well said. Thats what I think. Gameplay etc etc will come as the sandbox getting more capable to tackle it.
No, quadruple the size of the sandbox, panic - because you ran out of sand, shit in the sandbox, smooth out the sand in a .2 patch, promise smoother sand in the immediate future but schedule it in 5 years time, get marketing to sell everyone a few broken toys.
No, people will demand toys until the sand box breaks. The correct approach is to make money first, otherwise the game dies.
@@RicoZaid_ the disturbance obi wan felt
@@RicoZaid_ - They don't need money. $700mil is enough to make this game 10 times over. What they need are studio leads that aren't going to be 'sushi friends' with the employees and actually make them do work. Chris has allowed CIG to become lazy.
"more lore in game and less lore on the website" the quote of the day
Server meshing only truly works when the player does not even notice they have passed from one server to another, and they can do their mission without interruption by a server playing catch up with their data.
Pause champ. 👌 Only a few content creators can make a 50min reaction video out of a 16min video.
Or say so little with so many words
podseca me vise na politicare 🤣😉
Thank god i love the yapping
I mean, it's a react video. Far better than creators who only nod and make non commital sounds until the video ends, says 1 thing and ends their react video. If you aren't here for his commentary then just go watch the 16 minute video instead
😂
Appreciate you letting us know that part of the beginning of Chris’ presentation on Server Meshing was “coming soon”. That’s an important bit that wasn’t very cinematic for the video, but important for those of us who weren’t around during this time and shows why so many people mistrust what Chris says
VOLT guy never ceases to crack me up. He's the one constant, every patch. We may lose features, we may have new bugs - but VOLT guy is eternal.
i think a big part should be group missions .. today most "missons" are build for singleplayers .. what we need are missions that only become available or viable if you have a minimum of players participating .. (like dungeons in other MMOs you simply are not able to do them) ... also we need something like "mission hubs" .. like a bar or an office where people can gather as a starting point .. so groups can form for all the people who still are more or less playing solo .. oh .. and we finally need proper ORG / spectrum integration into the game ^^
good idea
My favorite narrative in the game right now is the mission that takes you to the Covalex space station that blew up. Loved the story telling and discovery while EVA'ing in zero-G to try and figure out what happened there. Felt like a real mystery.
Bruh, when is the hype ever not too much? Yeah, CIG def has their role in it. But it's mostly content creators like SuperMac and Bored Gamer who are always posting videos like, "This changes everything!", "Unbelievable Changes Coming!" and my personal favorite, "The Hype is Real!!!". In the quest for likes, subs and shares, every update and every patch gets blown way out of proportion.
I ran into SuperMac one time in game and was asking him bout this bc i wasnt experiencing any of what he was saying about that current patch... lol
And don't forget LevelCapGaming
Im so tired of them 🤣 i only listen to saltemike and space tomato, only ones with brain.
@@woodybear3823what? I feel like lvlcap is far more grounded and realistic with his videos about SC, optimistic, but realistic.
@@OACustom It's all the same. I know they don't copy each others vids, but it feels like it everytime i watch them.
imagine all the ship debris with 1000 players as persistence stands right now lmao
they will need to get towing missions in the game to pay players to tow ships out of parking areas for cash, or probably just actually switch on insurance costs will fix that as players will be reluctant to abandon ships when it costs money to claim a new one
1000 ppl per server. 1000 on Hurston, 1000 more in orbit around Hurston. 1000 more at New Babbage. 1000 at the Pyro jump point. Each place on its own server. With server meshing and seamless transitions it won’t feel empty at all.
good point, but they are introducing static server meshing, ie pyro and stanton on seperate servers
@@twistedtteaEven with static they could do a server per planet, no?
@@AnyOther-Nameyes it is possible. They can decide to split the map up into however many sections they want in static meshing, just not be able to dynamically spin up new servers and divide the map while the game is running.
@@AnyOther-NameYeah, they already did this in previous tests, technically server meshing can be bound to any OCS, so even a server to a single ship if they wanted.
@@AnyOther-Name that’s the next step if the devs are to be believed. But for now, as far as I’m aware, 4.0 will just be one server per system with the handoff happening in the wormhole
Tier 0 implementation across the board for in game mechanics across 'professions' and 'career paths' post 4.0
Correct me if I'm wrong, but server meshing will cause Stanton for instance to have many servers for different sections of it. So right now we have 1 server 1 system and it has issues because it can't handle the load. Break STanton and Pyro into 6 servers all shared by 1 set of players and you have much smaller spaces for a "server" to do it's calculations therefore better experience. Have I misunderstood this?
no, that's correct
and dynamic server meshing will be a lot different, moving the server borders on demand
correct. but what if all players are in the same landing zone, which is hosted by one of the 6 servers? Then you would have gained nothing. this is why dynamic server meshing comes into play, which would be able to dynamically split the landing zone into not one, but several servers on demand in order to counteract the high load due to the number of players. this is the ultimate goal of cig
That`s the correct idea apparently.
BUT
Keep in mind that we won`t have 100 players - 1 server, it would be 1000 players - 1 server, so whatever performance you gain, you now lose because 10x more players in that section/segment.
Also worth to mention, this doesn`t actually work properly when you consider that stations are limited with the number of hangars available to land.
The missions are also shared between players, so actually getting a bunker mission might be a question of who clicks faster on the pop-up.
And in order to fix all of these, they need the "Dynamic Server Meshing" which will transfer players seamless between servers on demand so you`ll always have a place to land or a mission to do. And this tech is really further away, in theory is fine but in practice it might not even work.
@@shippy1001 it works exponentially since it reduces the load on each server as well
@@shippy1001 I'm hoping that "mission refactor" involves transitioning missions from being "on offer" to "on request"
One big problem that I'm seeing after the replication layer was separated is the amount of abandoned ships that currently persist after a server recovery. They need to figure out how to clear out the abandoned ships its ridiculous with the current server player cap.
The game wont stop feeling empty until they start putting out npcs coming/going from stations/starports/using elevators
Whats funny though is that if they dont let the starfarer do internal fuel xfer, no one is going to be straying far afield in pyro. everyone will just hop from station to station.
Ive been following the game since I was 11 can you imagine an 11yr old waiting for a game. 9years later and now the 20yr old is still waiting.
And it's especially sad since there are a LOT of people who have passed or will pass before the PU reaches 1.0 or Squadron releases.
Great vid. I also saw tomato’s and I enjoy the balance you both bring to coverage.
The hype is always to high, that's the copium we smoke on a daily basis. 😂
One thing that's working well is local inventory at the little Outpost. I was doing the small package deliveries and with loot the containers inside the places. I would put them in the local inventory and forget to transfer them to my ship. Logged on the next day to do more deliveries and the stuff in the local inventory was still there
Probably a bit too high. Though the bar is set so low that the promise of anything with stable functionality gets a lot of hype.
Mike : React video
Chat : stop pausing with the mouse, just keep watching, you don't let anyone cook ever
Mike turned a 16 minute & 25 second video into 51 minutes.
Good job bro. That's wild.
4.0 next year, it's june in a few days, we haven't even seen 3.23.2 the real update yet.
CIG is saying 4.0 in the fall. So middle of next year sounds right.
Old cig time, i would agree. But everything i have seen from cig since last citcon, fall seems doable
@@janschmid281 3.23 was supposed to be a Q1 patch and the actually game changing stuff isn't even in evo yet.
This is just untrue.
@@MontySaurusRex_when did CIG say 3.23 was coming in Q1? I thought it was always slated for April.
@@jful it was on the release view for Q1 then they shifted it to April, it's now the end of May and the cargo side of the patch isn't even in Evocati.
I'll hype when the content of the 3.23 is released first.
I was always worried about how they would fill 100 star systems if this game ever completed but I just did the math and realized, if they can get 2,000 people in one shard it means every system can have 200 people on it wich is double our current player count , wich doesn't sound that bad, I honestly thought they'd have to come up with SHARD meshing next but 2k per shard seems pretty ok for 100 star systems
2000/100 would be 20 people per star system
Even shrunken somewhat, Pyro remains a travel time hog.
What’s the difference? Nothing to do en route and nothing to do once you get where you are going.
The pillow before that isn't even in. Look at the slide it says ORGANIZATION SYSTEM.
You said it at the end of the video.
The key point I think everybody is missing.
4.0 brings a NEW STAR SYSTEM and the mechanics it takes to make server meshing work properly. It proves it is possible.
Once they get meshing to work and a new system comes online, the framework is there, and then it's just a simple matter of bringing new content in.
Unless your playing in a group, or team, or org the only time you might see another player is either when you are leaving the Hab, taking a tram or calling your ship, as other players are doing likewise at other terminals. I have rarely seen actual players stop, and converse, and just be sociable. Everyone is on a rush to do their next thing.
i played the other day and i had a corsair with a player flying down to me. i find myself getting close to people a lot of times. but you can go a long time between getting to another player. but even if we get server meshing and we can meat eny person on the same continent. the universe will be getting bigger so it will probably be hours between contact unless you are in high populated areas.
How is the Zeus a Connie killer? It has less shields, less guns, less cargo and less hull HP. The main lesson I took from the Zeus is that the Connie needs it's turrets reworked into size 3 remote turrets.
💯 Andromeda has 181k hitpoints now, it's crazy awesome.
I really wonder about the performance after server meshing.
What's the reason to assume a significant increase in performance?
If they use 10 meshed servers to handle 1000 players per system, wouldn't each server on average have the same load as one server handling one system?
How does the expected performance increase happen?
the previous server meshing test was 500 players per server witch is too much for the server, but lets say 100 ppls per server each planet devided in 10 servers so around 4000 players per systems, it wont feel empty
It probably will even feel quite crowded, suddenly. Just imagine only 5% of those 4000 decide to do salvage missions at Yela, CIG would have to put up traffic lights at the OMs...
I hope the paradigm shift is more about DEPTH. Depth in system, interactions, locations, missions etc.
Beta is usually almost complete in all aspects except bugs. But, it's always dependant on the devs usage because there isn't an actual industry standard.
My prediction is meshing will bring MASSIVE amounts of bottles/trash built up everywhere 😅
Ghost hollow gonna go nutts
It would be neat that the farthest planet in pyro can only be accessed by large ships with large quantum drives. It would incentivise carriers and other gameplay
I'm only interested how much they can double the amount of NPCs in the verse.
I'd be happy if they just gave Stanton 2 or 3 servers; 1 server for each 2 planet system, and a 3rd for quantum and miscellaneous space. Doesn't address the problem of having the increased player count all go to one location and slow it down again, but it would still be a big improvement.
Shouldn't hard death kind scale with ship/weapon size? For example if a smaller ship gets its shields knocked down by like a S5 I'd expect it to pop like a cherry vs two small ships dueling I could see a soft death depending on circumstance.
I'm actually most curious to see what comes in 4.1, that in my mind will help us see the real vision and pace for the game in the near future. Everything up to 4.0 is mostly tech and things we've known about for some time. Not to say it's bad, I think it's great and I'm looking forward to jumping in once 4.0 drops.
"muh Perseus!
One minute into the space tomato video. Six minutes into the salte Mike video. Mike already determined he doesn't agree with how the video is framed. Edit(tomato hasn't said anything yet either.)
i cant wait for 3.0 beta
i think they need to focus on planet fauna diversity, most planets are just one single biome, having a planet that resembles earth would be so interesting to explore, deserts, rainforests, frozen mountains, volcanoes, massive forests etc, pyro seems that the only new thing they did to some planets is just different world gen
Tomato glossed over the organization pillar.
I feel like 3.23 was supposed to be the biggest update yet. Then it was released and IMMEDIATELY 4.0 became the biggest update yet. It actually confused and disappointed me. You can say that 3.23 *was* the biggest until 4.0 comes out. That's all well and good but 3.23 came out and the hype was a let down to me. And before I can react they already talk about 4.0 to smoke and mirrors the 'meh' that 3.23 was.
imo, there were two big blockers. SQ42 & server meshing.
Good react video. Thank you!
i would like just not having to spam any of my buttons to create an interaction.
Can’t wait until we’re all forced in together. No more looking for PVP, hopefully it will be unavoidable
Unfortunately PvE people will leave a game if they are jumped too much.
46:14 like 2 frames there showing heat propagation/hitboxes for fires?
It already takes a good 10-15 seconds for the server to recognize wtf is going on in the live universe...
Pyro did shrink its still 2 times the size of stanton (rather then 2.5 times)
Server meshing is a technical nightmare. Imo it’d take a company like Epic Games to execute it correctly. And games should be designed from the ground up for it… retro fitting is a wild endeavor.literally Everything has to change in some way
I would agree 100% right up until 1 year ago where I started to see development really coming along and honestly now I believe they can do it given enough time, as crazy as that would have sounded to me 10 yrs ago
I think 4.0 could be on the same level as 3.18 when it goes live with lots of crashes, bugs and slow AI and it will take several month to stabilize the systems which will ultimately delay dynamic server meshing by probably 6 month+.
While each new ship, each new mechanic and backend improvement added to the game will bring us closer to the promised land, I don't expect to see the game going beta within the next 6-7 years due to the amount of tech-debt and still plenty of promised game loops not even being available in a first implementation. And from more polished loops we unfortunately know that these might take 2-3 years to get there.
As such, while I do appreciate any addition made to the game, I don't feel hyped yet. But I'm pretty sure they will do their best (at least their marketing and PR teams) to bombard us with little information and leaks right before CitizenCon and the anniversary event to get players back on board again and lure some more $$$ ouf of us.
Great analysis Mike. I wish I could upvote you a dozen times more.
The real blocker to the game we all want is
...(drum roll)....
*Squadron 42.*
There, i said it.
Beta means feature complete, building content! Alpha means building and testing features.
Super excited for 4.0 but I'm also expecting another 3.18
The zeus is absolutely not a Connie killer 1v1 the zues gets annihilated lol
With all these extra players in servwr meshing, how will that work etc. there will be a ton of ships outside a mining outpost trying to use the screens etc. well thats what i think
Says every patch releases by CIG
Server meshing will only work if they also streamline the data flow between the user's game client and the server. Spreading out people will definitely help, but if you still have unnecessary amounts of client to server "chatter" for every little door that opens, it will quickly turn into a slideshow. You get a centralized event, like Invictus, with 1000+ people, you will be lucky to get 3fps. Not saying that server meshing shouldn't greatly improve performance, but there are other areas as well that will need addressing, hopefully sooner than later.
You should watch the server meshing video or some reactions about this.
@@danielcojocariu8438 I have, it worked great with 2 people. That isn't my point. Each person could have their own server, but if you flood the network with too much data flow, it will still run like crap. Server meshing will take the strain off of the servers that the game is running on, allowing them to run much smoother. It will not magically reduce the data flowing back and forth from those servers to your game client. Try running a modern MMO, run on modern servers, on a high performance PC, over a phone line, and tell me how great it runs!
Server Meshing is very misleading in general, I`ve noticed since 3.23 came out that A LOT of problems that SC have, won`t be fixed with server meshing, AI is one of them, but to not make it TLDR, when the Server "Recovers" it`s very laggy and very buggy for a few minutes until all clients shows up, on our Group/Party, I was the second player to get recovered, when I finally Pop-In, I lost the mission that I had, and the NPC Turrets destroyed my ship because I was tresspasing.
Another time that happened was mid gun-fight, I died and woke up in prison, while doing a regular PVE Bounty, has a lawful citizen...
Another time this happened to me, all my ammo and guns stopped working, they simply refuse to shoot, the fix was to drop them on the ground and re-equip them.
Another time this happened all my Stims didn`t work, I use them, but my health never recovered, all 4 of them bugged out, dropping and picking back up didn`t work, I had to get new ones.
Another this happened I somehow fell through the station in Port Tressler, luckily all my Items just went back to the station inventory.
Food that you buy sometimes does not fill your hunger/thirst meter, after a server recovery.
_________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
This only happens after a server recovers, and still taking too long to do so, last time I waited around 10 minutes, I know was more than 8 and less than 10 in total time, but still, sitting and waiting for a "server recover" is BS, 2-3 minutes is fine, but 10 minutes is absurdly long. Servers keep crashing over and over, the "replication layer" is just smoke and mirrors, intra-server functionality doesn`t exist at all yet, overall we are sitting at 5 fps average for the server performance, AI shooting through the walls, and I can still get stuck into a wall if I do the melee takedown animation on an NPC, or I can`t refuel/repair/re-arm my ships at a station. I`ve also experience 2x the 30K error, meaning the server recovery functionality doesn`t actually work for all servers, might be a good amount of servers, but not all of them.
I fully agree with Mike, we need to see this working properly, 3.23 while "better" is far from the "ideal" performance they pitched at us for over a decade now.
This may not seem to be much of a problem, but we absolutely experience more Bugs in SC than we experience Fun in SC.
Thing is the game and by proxy sq42 doesn't have physics. Outside of ragdoll physics which was new at the time cry engine which the game is built on has no physics and no object collision so every entity needs seperate smoke and mirror "physics" added to it and collision with every possible object in the verse ....all cry engine games have terrible collision issues ....then they want to damage ships like a voxl environment? Ha.....what there version of localized server meshing will do is cause more and more desync. They have no time dilation to accommodate the disparity in latency between the servers and the replication layer let alone server to server or server to player. It's not that their idea of server meshing is new or that its just "hard to do" it hasn't been done that way because it's foolish and requires waaaay more coding.
Def made it TLDR.
I'm so hesitant to be excited about SC these days I'm really just waiting for squadron, rather than watch the pot boil and the paint dry. I think they'll figure this out tho
I guess, 3.23(.X) and 4.0 is both sort of the biggest patch in their own way: 3.23 is biggest patch gameplay wise and 4.0 is the biggest patch in the backend tech wise.
When I am CIG, I would hold back gameplay stuff back when launching SM, so you can isolate bugs better related to SM. When you mixing gameplay and backend tech together, you will have tons of bugs all at once, and you don't know the cause is from a gameplay side or server meshing side.
Too dense will also feel bad. Putting 200 people in Tressler will be miserable, clipping, lag etc
Got me a IronChad baby!!
4.0 will be a nightmare.
Salte every react video: "haven't reacted in a while."
I used to everyday for multiple videos now it’s mostly just the ISC and SCL
@@saltemikereacts ok that's fair ig lol
Well Mike... You're getting really good at explaining star citizen.
I'm impressed, keep up the good work. 👍
Your different perspectives are because the majority of the game right now is sitting around with your friends speculating on what gameplay will be like when X thing happens, and how they'll do it, or how they *should* do it.
Honestly one of the big revelations for most players is finding out CIG doesn't even know how they're going to do it still. I imagine their board meetings are speculating as much as the playerbase does.
You know what will make Chris and CIG more truthful to the players? Stop buying the ships. It may sound counter productive given they need $$$ but I'm very sure they have sufficient funds to get to where they promise the players...
every video is an entire Avengers: Endgame movie, unfortunately I don't have time for that
We're 6 more years out to get SC to be like a Fallout game in regards to factions and narrative imo
What the hell is this new youtube layout on pc?
In the industry:
Pre-Alpha is fleshing out the features and concept.
Alpha is establishing and finishing all foundational features.
Beta means you've already established your features, and you're now implementing all your content.
Leaving Beta means you're content complete, and the rest of the pipeline is bug smashing, optimization, etc. If you think anything that isn't this, you're objectively wrong.
With a 1000 or more players it won’t feel empty. But it will still feel lifeless. The environment will still feel like a stage design, not a living, breathing universe. That is my biggest concern, beyond getting the game to a playable state.
SC as MMO relies on how many concurrent players we can have : 1000 people interacting with each other is still a standard number for video games ... not sure what the hype is about ... I really hope they go above that ... the more interesting goal would be tens of thousand interacting with each others. Also having limited shards will get people to switch when they feel it is too busy or too quiet which is not ideal ... switching server/shards is bad
Iirc 4.0 will be just two servers, one per system, on a single shard. Things won’t seriously start taking off until we get static server meshing.
There are a few things that need to be improved in the replication layer in my opinion. I'm not a huge fan of killing a bounty and just preparing to loot the cargo when I get a 5-minute error and come back to the ship I was getting ready to loot being gone. It's not immersive, it's not fun, and it feels bad. Otherwise it is usually a good thing of course.
Thousands of players on a server, I'll believe it when I see it.
I would be happy with 300 players or 400. They should focus on that with 4.0 and then when server meshing works with 400, slowly start to scale it up with playtests. But first get us a working 4.0 with some iteration of working server meshing...
Preach!!!
Just let me choose the color of my ship hud, and the elements in it.
Honestly I think the hype for 3.23 was higher than for 4.0
swear mike somethings forgets that testing is for testing and maybe his first test in server meshing which wasnt and isnt their intended experience going forward
Maybe listen to the words instead of finding reasons to be mad holy fuck.
I just want my space worms that Chris promised in 2016.
The spice must flow.
I will say the zues MR got me good.
It's space Mike, kinda needs to feel pretty empty
Area 18 to crusade just died Because I got shot on wala
the dream was there, they thougt it was possible, it is, but until it could be realised, there where still YEARS to fight through. now they are just that thad bit short of climbing over the ridge of the worst to get behind oneself to... be at the shore of the sea to start the game they wanted to build (we built up from the planets core, don't forget that) if they make it, it's up to them to swim AND to fly later on.
i wish them best luck, and keep my support.
An argument could be made that SC 1.0 is the first round of Open Beta, rather than finished product.
Kinda hoping 4.0 would be beta lol
tomato is a bit positive, but I like the positivity. Ironically, I like your reactions even more, your videos are good Mike! Keep it up as always!
Yes.
Yeah 3.23 was biggest patch but that doesn't mean 4.0 can't be bigger..
yes we do need something else if you experience a server reconnect it should keep your contracts that's one thing that's annoying especially when starting fresh and doing package missions I had one happen just before I could quantum jump to an OM above micro as I was going round the planet to go to the final location to deliver the last three packages in a 10 package mission (the ones where you pick em up at a station just outside the grounds of the distribution centre) when I reconnected the packages were still there but all markers, the mission and my 15k payout was gone and since outside those missions the packages are worthless I just tractor beamed them out of my titan and took off for tressler instead I'd given up!
I've already said this and i'll say it again until the servers are more stable and meshing is down they should implement pay per package so if you delivered seven out of 10 your at least payed for those
and sure in the context of real life that wouldn't happen a strawman argument i've been given many times
but also in the context of life your contract and your deliveries wouldn't magically disappear due to a glitch in the matrix this is a game and players just give up on deliveries all together if they keep losing money trying to do them and never getting a payout only the small missions are viable right now because it's shorter playtime it's less risk but it's also a smaller payout!
So I think in the context of this is a game and is that fun the answer is no, it's not fun to do a mission and have it wiped halfway through, they fix this one thing and make missions persistent heck maybe even let you back out to main menu and the missions still there when you come back in i'll be happy cause it seems the only 2 goals besides fun in this game is money and reputation and boy does it hurt your rep with a company if you fail a mission repeatedly!
If it has to be a 3.18 then it has to be. I couldn't agree more. This game does hinge on this tech. This is the doors opening to our game being made.
TLDR: Yes