For Honor - How strong is BLEED really?
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- Опубліковано 7 лип 2023
- I feel like it's something that not enough people complain about.
Even when disregarding all the passives it unlocks, it's still insanely versatile with way more up- than downsides.
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Also bleed is really strong for people in revenge because if you spam bleed while they are focused on someone else, the second their revenge ends they basically take full damage from your previous strikes
The strength of bleed is probably the main reason why Nobushi, Shaman, and PK lag behind other heroes in terms of sheer moveset power. A bleed nerf should probably come with some buffs to those characters, since bleed is really the main reason they can still be threatening in 4s.
I think Nobushi will be strong even without bleed
@@redtreatrick5265Do you play Nobushi? Honest question.
I have pretty much only ever played Nobushi and I can tell you that the only players who seem to have trouble against her are those who don't know her move-set and how to react to her, as well as people who are in a 1v2 or 1v3 situation with Nobu applying bleed from a distance.
1v1 she gets bodied even by most of the original heroes, as long as the player is experienced. If the player is inexperienced, they might have no clue how to counter her.
Her light animations make her extremely counterable, and she has very little variation in her actual move-set. The variation comes from canceling and chaining odd attacks, but even that becomes predictable at higher levels.
Without bleed she 1000000% needs a rework. She could honestly use it right now WITH bleed. But so few people use her that many players don't fight her and therefore don't know how to counter her and cry "she's OP" 🤷🏽♂️
@@slipp3ryslop3 i’m only a duels person and i feel i can say she wouldn’t need a complete rework that badly if it did removed from her.
@@cheesegrater8699 Honestly you're right. She needs to be tweaked. But like...a fair amount.
@@slipp3ryslop3 I'm one of the best Nobushi players. She has absurd undodgeable from stance and recovery cancels to slap in teamfights. She will probably become top10 char instead of being top4 in brawls and in Dom she'll be like bottom A instead of middle A
Say “I” if freeze should be on the dev team
I
You
I
got that
Nah
If your heavy chip results in bleed killing an opponent then that heavy is practically an unblockable from neutral because if they DO block it then they will bleed out
Bleed is absolutely pathetic for pk compared to everyone else it helps.
Congrats, you have unlocked the ability to use unblockable attacks for a few seconds
Meanwhile highlander and pirate throwing unblockables out of thin air. But the worst part about it is how pk is supposed to be a bleeding assassin, but kyoshin the 🐢 has far superior bleed feats
Pk needs a mechanic to help her get executions too cause her bleed often takes the kill. Like instead of her bleed immediately killing on 0 HP, it drops dudes to their knees for 500ms to give pk exclusive rights to the execution cause this hoe has the hardest time in the world getting executions
Exactly it looks like players are having an issue with nobu.
U forgor about lights not interrupted by block tho
Bleed is amazing for pk tho. Gives her one of the best mix ups of the game, the bleed damage makes her overall damage high, it always leaves with frame advantage, and gives her enhanced lights (very good cuz frame adavatage aspect and the 400 ms chain damage on top of being able to chip them to death now).
Highlander can’t even feint to gb effectively as part of his mix, and his soft feints has no way to beat dodge attacks. Pirate damage is weak and frame advantage issues.
getting exes with pk isn't too bad when the person bleeding out goes psycho, just throw interval GB/Dodge attacks towards the end of you standing them off. works for me 50-60% of the time
I'd prefer if it was more of a timed status/debuff rather than affecting the healthbar directly. For instance, a move would apply "x" seconds of the "bleeding" status, while doing normal damage. During the bleeding status certain moves (like shaman bash/bite, Pk finisher heavies, Nobu combo heavies, etc.) extra properties, similar to how Centurion and Jorm get a special moves/properties when someone is knocked down.
Changing it to something like this would make balancing damage easier as everything would be doing direct damage, while also removing the annoyance of having all bleed damage cleared by healing, and removes the annoyance of being able to apply damage under a shield and through hitstun.
It ruins feats like bleed attacks and bleed bomb, but in my opinions those feats are rarely picked (and kind of shit) anyway
Bleeding out isn't fun for anyone, and I personally despise it, would love to see it changed to something closer to this.
that means they'd have to buff PK"s feint stab to do like 9 dmg and make her heavies do upwards of 26
Honestly, while pks changes were better, the power creep is still super high and i feel like she still lacks power
Imagine the last hero you want on your team, and why was it pk 😆
@@shaolinclips orochi tbh
I hope the aztec dude is a big beefy brown dude with a big beefy saw sword that utilizes bleed frequently
I would say rework bleed entirely.
1. Make bleed take away shield health (instead of just taking away base health while someone has a defense buff)
2. Increase the initial attack damage of bleed, while decreasing the overtime bleed damage (same net damage) so it feeds more revenge (bleed itself doesn’t need to feed revenge, in my opinion)
3. Heal feats/dom points don’t cleanse bleed, they should add the health while keeping the opponent bleeding
OR
set a delay timer on how long until the bleed is cleansed (ex. enter dom point & after 3 seconds bleed is gone)
4. Nobu specific: make way of a shark a passive - tier 2 or 3
Everything is fine except for the last one, every bleed character should have a special ability when their bleed procs if your taking it away from nobu then you also have to take the ones from shaman and pk
@@Seth-de5bspk without it ceases to exist
@@Seth-de5bsWay of the shark is too strong as part of her default kit. Replace it or just don’t have it.
@@Seth-de5bs PK without hers literally makes her a minion
Seems like it just needs some revenge changes so it actually has to deal with revenge rather than ignoring it I.e. doesn’t go through revenge shield, the bleed ticks feed revenge and popping revenge cleanses bleed. In a 1v1 setting it seems fine
So let’s say you’re PK no bleed=no unblockables/ continued chain on block
no wonder I have such a hard time dealing with Nobushi, pk, and shaman when I am getting ganked. specifically nobu doing the dodge light every time my guard happens to not be in the right place.
This is partly why Nobushi is considered as a support in dominion. She inflicts bleed "under" the revenge and has equipment passives and feats allowing her, when combined, to do a very fast revive at 75% HP. And indeed, past a certain level, Nobushi is not so good of a 1vs1 champion. Is Nobushi low tier ? Not in dominion. In duel ? Yes, but only if the opponent is used to fight Nobushi.
@@larslenk9404 i have a hard time with Nobushi lights. unless I'm playing a character im very familiar with who can deal with a whole bunch of lights
I would say it need fix. ---> When u're bleeding u don't take any plus bleeding damage from other attacks. They fix buffing direct dmg atk and reducing bleed dmg per second so that heroes that play on bleed can still do their things like 4 ex shaman bite (so u don't need anything else 4 1v1 and 4v4 situations)
I understand and agree that the positives of bleed outweigh the negatives, but do we really think they "far outweigh?" I feel the community getting triggered. Yes, over one word.
Outstanding video, thanks for the info.
My opinion as a nobushi player from day one odd.
I know how weak bleed can feel when you are 1v1, and how strong it is in 2v1.
But, its not like other hero dont have gank that can do a lot of damage. Sure, bleed ignore revenge meccanic, but its a tag and your friend can easily feed revenge on his own.
So, its not bleed on is own or nobushi that is the problem.
Not to mention a simple heal of any kind not only heal dhe enemy, but clanse the dot. Immagine hitting the enemy with 5 light and he is full hp as if nothing happened.
Anyway, the problem are in my opinion 2
First: we need single pick. You are not going to get destroyed by a single nobushi/pk/shaman bleeding. Not even all 3 at the same time.
What is absurd is multiple nobushi at the same time.
Single pick shuld be a thing.
Second: the on dodge light. Dont get me wrong, nobu needed it. No, she needed and probability still need some buff. Her core kit is old and its not working right now. Even on console its easy to see her kick and parry her light. And with no she was getting massacred on team fight, the place where she was supposed to be good.
But multiple side dodge in team fight especially from multiple nobushi are extrimly hard to deal with.
Now i wish to close my statement with an answer to the video question.
Is bleed op? Yes. Its very good, how op it is? Not as much as it sound for me.
But i dont think its fair to simply "add the positive, subtract the negative" of the mechanic. If its so op, nobushi would be a top tier unit.
The fact is that character with it have a lot of problem on their own.
Pk have to bleed you or she have no pressure, not to mention her dodge attack...
Shaman is ok.
I dont think i need to explain how weak nobu is on her own.
Those character have weakness to compensate how strong bleed is, so unless we compensate them hard ( i mean valk tier level of rework), i dont think their bleed deserve nerf
Nobushi main going off
@@stevokrash3599Yes, because so few people play her, that even fewer players play AGAINST her and still have opinions about her.
Anyone who has been playing since day 1 has ZERO problems vs Nobushi, because at least people played her back then and the good players learned to parry her lights and dodge the kick. The only real strength she has today is that so many players don't understand her move-set or how to counter it, even though it's extremely counterable.
Shaman is a top tier duelist. Nobu is held back by a somewhat easy reactable bash and no opener. Pk is held back by externalling. Gladiator literally had to have a revenge nerf to impale when his rework came out. Shinobi had to have his bleed removed.
None of these characters that did bleed are purposely held back because they did bleed. Bleed was just strong, but some suffered cuz they were outdated/duelists.
@@shalashaskaseven4841 you are actually confirming what I said.
Glad and shino already have good (even broken) ganking tool, they don't need bleed.
Shaman is a top duelist, but at the moment she is a mediocre ganker , with lot of competition, and she is terrible in team fight.
Pk is not just an external block problem. She is mediocre in duel to and aweful in team fight. Not saying she is bad, but it's not like she is a top pick.
The only hero who abuse bleed is nobu, and she have very clear flaw in her kit.
@@bhellzeboss7541 Pk is a good duelist. Not mediocre. She sucks in teamfights because she can be external blocked and dodged, preventing her mix and bleed.
The only problem with Nobu is the old speed of the bash. Just needs updating.
Glad still has bleed btw.
That Kyoshin got VIOLATED
As they all should be. What a kit.
I honestly feel as though bleed are simply crutches on which the three of the girls rely on to be relevant and at least be a threat to those that underestimate them. It would be better to either just get rid of bleed entirely and actually improve their moveset so they can actually stand a chance against other heroes, or nerf bleed and slightly buff the movesets. I’d prefer the first, like for example having peacekeeper just have the attacks that become unblockable just be unblockable normally so she has that pressure.
It's a 1v1 vs 4v4 Problem again. Bleed is really good in 4s but bad in duels, so simple dmg nerfs don't work here without killing viability in duels even more. What I'd like to see is a slight increase of direct dmg on bleed-dmg heroes and removal of bleed dmg overall, while changing the mechanic to a debuff that lets the bleeding target take 5% more direct dmg on each hit or something like that. Would make bleed heroes more viable in 1v1s, while keeping them viable in 4s because of the debuff.
Not to mention bleed completely ignores revenge shield in its entirety, the fact that it instead applies bleed to the opponents health bar ignoring shields is crazy
No it bleeds the shield away, you probably just get hit a lot when you’re bleeding
It does not ignore it. It stack on it and stay when the shild expire.
It does not ignore it, but when your shield depletes or removed via raw damage, the remaining bleed transfers to your HP.
Bleeds a funny one at first i was like oh just nerf the enitial damage but thatd just make bleed useless.
My way to fix it would be
1 bleed feeds revenge theres no reason why it shouldn't considering the amount of damage it does combined with regular attacks.
2 it does not work against revenge sheilds
3 have bleed be on a set timer where once max stacks are applied no more bleed can be stacked.
As well as bleed does not last very long thus will need to be something you have to keep applying.
Bleed shouldn't be easy to cleanse instead heals just add health back to you while bleed is still in effect
You know there still no comment or video about the law bringer rework your made being brought into the actual game or any form of mention of it if I may ask why is that?
too much new content all at once.
I can't cover all...
other content creators shit out videos immediately. my content takes time.
So if I make a video about something late, then nobody will watch... thus... I can't be arsed.
There wont be a LB video from me.
the rework was also just boring.
@@fkkfreezebut didn’t you make the rework? I’m not trying to be rude but you made the rework it’s self and then didn’t make any content referring to it I feel as if though that’s more of a obligation to at least discuss it and your opinion and if it’s boring with the way it was made and you didn’t like it would a apology or explanation on how it could be fixed not be a good idea?
@@fkkfreezebut thank you for replying and answering the question hopefully nothing I said here was or seemed disrespectful if it did I apologize
how would I be able to make that rework???
@@fkkfreezefrom what a few lawbringer mains that are close friends and a few others I have encountered in the Wild when I asked they said the rework was taken from your opinion on how to character should be made and they all point to you for why it’s like this I’m honestly clueless I’m trying to figure this all out and be respectful and open minded as they may not be the whole truth but everyone I’ve asked has said it was taken from you and a few don’t seem happy how despite the rework coming from you there was no comment or information and I’m curious why myself regardless if it was your idea or not as for how to make it better I don’t quite know I don’t actively play or utilize the character to give a opinion
maybe it would feel a little bit better if the bleed damage while ganking fed revenge as well. so at every tick you take some amount of damage and at each tick a tag is reapplied and it adds some amount of revenge. It is really frustrating to fight a nobu and another hero and the Nobushi just reapplied bleed to you every chance she gets.
No wonder ive hated Nobushi and Shaman since day 1 lmao
Love Nobushi and Shaman, but...yeah
Bleed clense is one of the most annoying things to me.
I'd probably rework bleed to take 5 damage per ticks in every scenario. Than you have a pool of bleed damage to take. Nobushi's attacks add, 15 to the pool. Nail bomb give 100+ or how much it is.
So, when you're healed you also clense for the same amount (effectively doubling your heal), but still not as strong as a full clense.
Than there is this mess of shields and not. It's okay to me for bleed to go trough shields, but not trough revenge. So here too whe should clarify the source of the sheild. If shild is from revenge, than bleed is applied to the shild. If shield from other source, and with no shield, when you take damage with tags, you also gain that much revenge.
"Easy peasy", bleed-revenge interaction is fixed. I hope.
I main aramusha, I always run fear itself(defense debuff) and sharpen blades as a nasty combo, I call it the health deleter combo. If I land just like 3 hits theyre dead, I'll admit it's pretty op but I never seen anyone else use it.
Yes it is
Depends, depends who youre playing, for example, i feel as though pks bleed is only really used in synergy with shaman, and isnt that good on its own.
I still find it hilarious how even among the bleed characters, PK is the worst even among already low tier bleed capable characters. Shit makes me giggle lol
Yes it is and i say this since 2018
The new hero will 100% have something to do with bleed
How do you know?
They mention snakes a lot so it’s kinda seems bleed oriented
@@bigfootwithwifi7569 Aztecs. They did enjoy their human sacrifices
Might have some cool executions lol 😎🫀🫀
@@dantegayoso1741 he will probably be an Aztec. Aztecs had a lot of rituals and sacrifices
As much as I love playing Nobushi and love bleeding people to death..
Freeze is completely right. Bleed needs to at least be affected by the damage reduction rule
3 heavy attacks from an Orochi with bleed on it kills you. With people like Aramusha with hot tempered and his debuffs, I've seen upwards of 120 damage in just two hits. The fact damage is even this high at this point is just unacceptable because it literally trivializes an entire game mode like Breach. Imagine trying to win as defenders with a Beserker, Aramusha, a JJ, and a Shinobi. The Commander's health literally goes down to zero in sub 10 seconds flat with a team that has good synergy and its absurd.
So then why po isnt as op as nobushi, simple nobushi has better move set with unreactable lights that apply bleed effect that stacks up insanely.
Drizzy spamming sorry?
I didn't expect him to be that type of player
I’ve been said nobu is broken but for some reason she’s been overlooked for so long because everyone is complaining about the wrong things (Everytime)
Nobushi extra bleed damage might be scary if she had real pressure. One of the few remaining chars you can beat just by staring at her.
while true her abilities in team fights make up for her lack of 1v1 potential
@@sarahdumby I think the tweaks you could make to her for a better duel experience would not make her significantly better than she is in 4’s
@@leonciesla5456 she is already an insane team fighter with arguably the best peel in the game, giving her good 1v1s would make her insanely busted
@@sarahdumby I’m honestly unimpressed with her peel shes one of those old characters that doesn’t have the teleportation forward dodge attacks and it whiffs more often than you would think versus if someone like gryphon were to do it and he gets a hyper armor follow up.
Her peel ability doesn't make up for the fact you can just react parry dodge all of her stuff easily even at a mid level. Her kit is so old and awful if it wasn't for bleed she would basically dissappear from the game lol.
EZ DRIZZY❤️
Bleed is rediculus. It should be a feat not a basic ability.
Please don't take this from us, Freeze
This probably wouldn't change much but how about, you just can't die to bleed? Bleed will not bring your health lower than 5? I chose 5 because it would allow you to finish the character that bled you and still survive two minion hits if the occasion occurs but you'll still die to a single light or damaging bash.
this just allows for people to cheese PK, specifically in duel. being unable to threaten death as a PK is fucked
I HATE bleed, specifically for nabushi, she can apply soooooo much bleed so fast and she does the most bleed damage? it's insane. why does nabushi do 3 damage per tic but peace keeper who in my opinion should be the strongest in this aspect deal less. I hate nabushi man.
Funny part the Devs tuned PK’s damage down when Griffon came out and then she got another damage nerf during the CCU
@@Booty_WarriorGaming In my honest opinion she is the worst 4v4. She is a pretty alright 1v1. But awful on 4v4. Which sucks cause she's one of my favorite concepted heros.
@@youngpast0228 oh yeah she's bottom feeder 4v4, but she's also like bottom 5 1v1 as well lol
Bleed shouldn’t kill. I’m a Nobushi main and that shits to strong sometimes
if bleed doesn't kill, that's an indirect nerf to PK. can we please stop trying to ruin her
Ask yourself. Do I struggle against PK or Nobu? Because freeze needs to ask that himself 😭😂. Video seems targeted towards nobu
Nobu does the most. Even more then PK. Got bled out with 1/3 of my health fighting one.
Pk and nobu have the strongest bleed dmg and the dmg should be reduced for both of them
Nobu is a good team fighter especially in feeding zero revenge with good dodge cancels and easy access to a high damage undodgable.
Cmon, stop complaining about things that make characters have unique properties. Soon with all these complaints everyone will have a bash and bleed, making every character generic as fuck.
He is not complaining, he is properly testing and sharing the results of his and findings to inform people so they have some idea on how it works and how it can effect them while giving his opinion at the end
@keenanjackson2668 examining, complaining, it doesn't matter.
All roads lead to the same destination: heroes become Skins of the same kit rather than unique individuals.
If I wanted clones, I'd play Battlefront 2.
@@keenanjackson2668 I didnt mean freeze being the complainer, I meant to say that people will use this and run with it to cry to devs, who will then listen to them because they want to sustain their game. But in turn, just like the guy above me said, everyone gets a bash and a bleed, or things get nerfed into the ground that never presented a issue for years.
@@hioxd they problem with this game is we need new mechanics, even if u gave everyone a bash I want make them the same for example take warden, warmonger, cent, and hito for example, they all have charge bashes and play nothing alike, honestly it's not about the bash but the fighting mechanics around it, that's why it honestly time for some new fighting mechanics to make it way into the meta.
Make it so bleed can't reduce below 1 hp.
He forgor 💀
Bleed shouldn't just do passive flat damage. It should be on a timer and should work like caltrops. A status effect that lasts X seconds and does damage every time you move or attack.
As for burns - Dodge rolling should get rid of burns. Because not everyone has self-heal.
iam just for BLEED CANT KILL (stops tiking at 1%health). i realy hate if someone bleeds me an runs away.
What so different from betting hit for the same amount of damage and die anyway?
@@bhellzeboss7541 the runaway aspect
Given that none of the bleed characters are considered broken top tier, I think it shows that bleed is in a decent spot right now in the meta. It's very useful on the characters but not broken.
Fax. I’d love to see a new bleed character that could instantly execute using a grab move or something though, that would be super cool.
Id actually argue nobu is top tier in lower to mid skill games
Shaman is top 4 duelist and nobu is a meta pick in 2s
Dude, nobu is considered top tier in 2s and 4s
@@NDO6 because of her teamfight potential dealing with her reach and externals, it barley has to do with her bleed
aids blades
Yung Malaria members
@@sambellware5810 only ogs remember
1st
Jesus loves you sm