Boundaries Setting Without Being An A**HOLE
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- Опубліковано 2 лис 2023
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DISCLAIMER: THIS INFORMATION IS FOR EDUCATIONAL PURPOSES ONLY AND IS NOT INTENDED TO BE A SUBSTITUTE FOR CLINICAL CARE. PLEASE CONSULT A HEALTH CARE PROVIDER FOR GUIDANCE SPECIFIC TO YOUR CASE. THIS VIDEO DISCUSSES NARCISSISM IN GENERAL.
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They play the innocent victim when you set boundaries. Don't let them live in your head or your life, if boundaries don't work
Love that color on you.
So true life humbles you when your older... it doesn't seem to work that way with narcissists boundaries or not.
Thank You!
I have a coworker that's probably a covert narcissist and politely setting boundaries or giving factual feedback nicely will be seen as an attack to them no matter how I put it
@@OGAngie It's true anything you say to them it's like an attack on them... difficult people to deal with.
I was once told by a kind and intelligent social worker that yes, I had a problem, but I was not the problem. What an eye-opener that was!
If you don't set boundaries your MEAN to your self.its called self respect and self love
Lol my family legit feels like I’m an asshole, negative, and bitchy.. the reality is.. I’m very honest and I speak up/call out everybody’s abuse/disrespect.. my father is a narcissist.. he actually wrote the book on how to be a narcissist.. he can’t stand strong women. Unfortunately for him I have my mother’s strength and his sharp tongue..
It's none of my business, but that sounds like a family to stay away from, sad to say.
I have a sister like that. But the good part, is she lives 800-plus miles away, so we don't have to see her. The only reason she does, is due to the fact that her mother has been diagnosed with Alzheimer's
He wrote what?!? 😅
That's WILD.
except for the book situation, everything you said describes my family situation. Am sorry for everything you had to go through, especially as a child.
@@Lipanj92I don’t think she meant that Literally
@@someonespecial581 She said: "he *actually* wrote a book...", and I didn't think it was a metaphor but you're right, it could be 😅
I found out the hard way that setting a boundary with my now ex simply let him know what he could do to REALLY piss me off.
Antagonistic
I love how honestly you could share about your trauma bonded state. Thank you Dr. Ramani for existing and this channel. I feel less lonely because of you. ❤
You do this teaching in such a loving way. Yashasvinigam590 thank you for highlighting how good Dr Ramani is
She really is great isn’t she! ❤
I was just wondering about the cause of my behavior a week ago. She just validated the thoughts that I had about it by stating what she stated. That was HUGE!
Setting a boundary with a narcicist is same as declaring a world war! 😊
You got that right!
So true! My grandma once told me as a child going to school...if you haven't been called a ABC yet you haven't lived life...found that the truth the older I got!
Glad to see this comment because I’m new to setting boundaries, they’re highly uncomfortable for me to set but it comes down to my physical/mental/emotional safety (and my child’s) and word for word my narc group said “you want a war?” - your comment shows me I’m not insane and I truely do need to keep boundaries with these people, I didn’t think they’d be so unhinged on me doing so though Jesus😅 they definitely got too comfortable with me being available 24/7 and feeding into their every need/want and were used to that treatment. Feels reviving to give it back to myself though
@@drewgrant2795 They were for me too as we have bullies in school even...my grandma did help me a lot as she was there when we were young... but as we grew up creating new ones was difficult... and people come unhinged over no I can't this time etc etc.
@@penijoni1316 They get harder when it's family members ...they are used of walking all over you!
Thanks for this episode. It resonated with me especially when you said,
"When you've lived as long as I have, I don't think you don't have to play with all the kids in the sandbox."
It’s disheartening to see how many people react ro someone setting a healthy boundary. I have had weak to nonexistent boundaries my entire life. After being in a relationship with a full-blown narcissist, on and off for seven years, with the incredible help of these videos, I now realize that if I had healthy boundaries I wouldn’t have been in that relationship for that long. I have started setting boundaries with family and friends and each time have been met with opposition. This is a very telltale way to find out who is healthy in your life and who really cares about you and your well-being.
People become angry because they can no longer step all over you and use you.
I’m
Their true colors shine though that's for sure. I have never seen anybody flip out so much as the time I asked a narcissist to stop eating my food and to ask before they take something if they didn't buy it or make it themselves. There was a unbelievable tantrum. After that they kept purposely taking people's food just to push people's buttons. And then when it was brought up to them they pretended they didn't know what they were doing wrong.
@@GeorgeGlass298 the same thing happened to me! My ex narc’s son kept eating all of the food I was buying, and I merely asked that he ask beforehand as a courtesy, because, whenever I would go to get some of the food, there wouldn’t be any. I brought over a bottle of Evian water, and he asked me if he could have some in a glass. I said yes, of course and thank you for asking. I was then reprimanded for 20 minutes on how her son should not have to ask me for food or a drink of water. I was called the food police. I was called selfish. I was told that I think I’m better than everyone else. Oh my. It went on and on.
When you have been forced to deal with a lot of narcisistic people and have been humiliated and dismissed countless times you arrive at a spot where you realise you do not need to play with all of the kids in the sandbox and it feels great! Thank you dr Ramani❤ God bless you❤
“I don’t think you need to play with all the kids in the sandbox.”
😂 love it!
7:20 That is fiercely relatable. Growing up people frequently let me down when I needed them. In some ways that was a good thing. I run a very tight ship & very rarely need people now.
I also view "favors" as a great way of clearing out my social circles. I don't have kids yet & Im very efficient, so Im never up to anything. As a result I do a lot of favors. That 1am airport pickup or 11am doctors appoint? I got you. That also means when I have a flat tire and need a ride home, you will come and get me or I will jack that car up, mallet the wheel off, put a new one on, and then block your number & all social media
I have very few boundaries & they are almost exclusively "You won't yell at me" "You will not abuse me". I also use other people's boundaries to determine if they are allowed in my life. If you aren't ever willing to help me out... well what's your function in my life besides being a pit that consumes my energy & time?
Very relatable.
This hits home for me too!!
Sounds transactional
@@sellyourhomenowbook and what is wrong with that ! “ transactionable “… give something to get something … seems fait to me .
fair
It’s really tough, yes. For me to even attempt to ask/tell someone about what I need or set a boundary is a very big deal. Huge. If they have the narcissistic pattern going on, they usually get nasty. I’ve had to be a bit abrupt with them. I’m absolutely learning that I don’t appeal to everyone. So be it!
My first attempts were really bad! I got a lot better. Don’t let them get to you. Stay strong and keep working on refining it. ❤
I took a liking to not being liked by everyone. Takes a while, but it's a good feeling.
You have to remind narcissists about your boundaries constantly, or they will cross them.
Eh they will still cross them whenever they please haha...Unless there are witnesses to the behavior ofc.
@@ThimbleFox350this!
Well, in my case it felt like a game I was setting up myself to loose it.
Seems they take it as a challenge
Mine got off on violating boundaries. It made him feel powerful.
Sadly, our society is unraveling. The golden rule is dead. I feel gaslighted by the therapy mantras of “ you have to teach people how to treat you “ ,(setting boundaries). No you don’t and no you can’t. First of all, it’s not my job to teach an adult how to behave like one and quite frankly, it’s a trap and a drain hole. Secondly, I DON’T CONTROL OTHER PEOPLE. They will do what they want, especially if they have the tiniest ounce of power over you. In every instance, trying to set a boundary, no matter how polite or professional I am has only sparked resentment that has on three occasions resulted in the loss of a much needed job. Americans, in general have no coping skills. We are a nation of addicts and all the psychological problems that go along with that. It seems that letting most people know what is important to you will be used as ammunition. I don’t think that the therapy class ( whose comfortable lifestyles protect them), are keeping up with the current pace of American hatred and self destruction. I think these dark times call for better skills at self protection. I personally recognize my boundaries but keep it to myself and just put your behavior in your dossier- I keep a polite distance preserving my energy for me and my family , ( the feathered people). Interesting, the 10% of humanity who would step back and listen, doesn’t need to have the boundaries talk - they practice the golden rule.
Thank you for this! This is so spot on ! ❤😊
It seems to me that people are crazier than ever, so one needs "boundries ", and a ton of discernment.
Agreed, but just saying I keep it to myself and don’t advertise my boundaries.
yes, I agree it's better to not say, just do. And no need to explain too much, really.@@gertrudewest4535
A simple way of putting boundaries is ‘saying no’. Many people won’t tolerate someone saying no. But not saying no is a recipe for self destruction.
When setting boundaries that caused you to lose jobs, was it saying no to unreasonable behavior?
Because if it was, they had put in in the place of either saying no, or being run over. Either way, you were shortly going to have a major problem.
If you grew up in a house where you were not allowed to have your own needs met, thoughts or feelings; boundaries might as well be a foreign word. I didn’t even know what that meant ‘setting boundaries’. I had to ask my therapist.
I’m terrible at setting boundaries. I hate conflict too. Basically I go no contact with ppl who don’t treat me well. I’m true to myself, but easily taken advantage of, going out of my way trying to make someone happy. That usually ends badly. For me, its easier to walk away than to set a boundary
Me too, because I must not make the boundary lines clear, no one ever respects them. I am 68 now, and don’t really care much anymore.
Walk the path of a loving and compassionate person using the eight tools of Righteousness.
Loyalty
Honour
Respect
Morals
Empathy
Remorse
Inspiration
Encouragement
And do not turn a blind eye to oppressive, controlling, immoral, harmful or dishonest behaviour.
Eventually….’The Toxic Ones’ have nowhere to hide because there won’t be anywhere for them to hide.
We all have a responsibility to ensure the morality of mankind is maintained at or above the minimum standard.
I tend to be like that as well. If you do not plug into my emotional well being, I go cold on you. Tired of negative people being aggressive. I am also tired of "Yes, but..." or "If....." It never works out
Ah grasshopper, you must walk the way of conflict with kindness.
Boundaries are so important.
It takes WAY too much energy to be around people with whom you have to constantly set and defend your boundaries. Going no contact with them is a sane decision. I'd rather be by myself or use my limited time & energy with respectful folks.
Dr. Ramani, there is something you brought up while covering this topic that I'd love to hear more about - how to acknowledge the need for help, and how to ask for it. You mentioned that as a survivor this is difficult for you. It is for me, and my young adult children, and I suspect for many of us in this community. How do we work on this? Thanks in advance for considering this topic for a future video.
I love the way you say Boundaries. "Just set a Boooundary ; maybe I need a Boooundary" Just what I needed before going to work😁
Thank you for this! Advice I've often heard when needing a favor from someone is "There is no harm in asking. The worst they can say is No." This is true if the person you're asking happens to be a normal, well-adjusted human. My narcissistic mom will shame people in the most condescending and passive-aggressive manner possible. "I'm sorry you asked me that." There are so many ways to be told no, ranging from feeling mild disappointment to feeling like you have been punched in the gut.
Thank you! I struggle so much with this. It is agony to ask for help. If i can't somehow do it myself , I'd rather just give up, hide, shut down than be at the mercy of others.
"I don't think you need to play with all of the kids in the sandbox" so apposite, so succinct, 😻 thank you
The problem with being nice about setting boundaries is that it’s often the people who refuse to pick up on nonverbal cues that need to have boundaries put in place.
I had to get nasty with a creep in the office who would not pick up on strong nonverbal cues that I was NOT INTERESTED in him. By the time I expressed the boundary it came out like rage. I feel bad about that but didn’t know what else to do and was feeling triggered and unsafe by his constant unwanted attention. 😬
Don't give clues.Tell them.
Try saying in a KIND voice. ''Im so sorry!! But Im really not interested''. I bet that will work. Its cus you one foot in and one foot out. theres no need to be a jerk about it or mean or agressive or demeaning. Imagine it was you. Dont be a giving clues and then blow up.
I've been less than compassionate with people who test my patience and who have crossed my boundaries repeatedly. But these are also people I don't want relationships with. But in a work context, I try to balance my people pleasing and over explaining with being courteous when responding to work emails. It's is hard to know when I'm doing something from a healthy place vs a trauma fear place. I need to get better at communicating and respecting boundaries. Thank you for the wake up call. ❤
Just only talk work at work be a gray rock
If you have been the scapegoat in a narcissistic family system, the concept of setting a boundary is laughable. You would be telling them exactly how to hurt you, and they would happily oblige. Also, trying to set a boundary in a calm and tactful way would be met by resistance in the form of mocking and ridicule, attempting to bait the scapegoat into anger, which would prove you are the problem.
I get you. 👌
I can totally relate to this! When I first started setting boundaries with certain family members a few years ago, it was absolutely AWFUL for a while...all of the above plus stalking, harassment, threats, health problems from the stress of it all...BUT, patience, persistence, and staying calm, respectful, and factual has really helped a lot. Obviously it hasn't changed THEM, but it has helped ME. Like, "Hey! I just stood up for myself even tho I was scared, AND I did it in a respectful way, AND I didn't take it personally when they responded badly!" For so many years I thought I was to blame for their negative responses to my boundaries, like I wasn't doing it right or something...When I finally realized that I literally CAN'T change them, and that I needed to stop trying so hard, it was a light-bulb moment for me. Now I just focus on setting healthy boundaries in a respectful way and being proud of myself if I do a good job.
p.s. A "side effect" of my perseverance has been that some of the narcs in my life eventually got tired of being reminded of my boundaries, or disappointed that I was no longer "taking the bait", or embarrassed at being consistently, respectfully called out when they crossed a line, so now they don't bother me quite so often :)
@@katey614When you set boundaries and people react badly, it's a compliment, in an ugly sort of way. You're showing them that you are too strong for them to control, and they don't like it.
Kudos for sticking to it the way you describe. Setting boundaries often results in escalation, and it’s easy to get discouraged.
You're describing what happened in my marriage. I started setting boundaries, although I wouldn't have called it that at the time, and there was massive escalation. The same happened with one of my children, who was also abusive. Now the narrative is that Mom is crazy. But there's nothing I can do about that, and the abuse was killing me inside. I'm estranged from two of my children, probably permanently, but the alternative was submitting to more abuse. It breaks my heart, and I've done a lot of weeping, but I don't love anybody enough to let them trample on me.
It allways marvelled me that they continue to do so, even after attending "family counseling". But still expect you to honor the terms of agreement established by mediators, because of you know, " healthy relationships require compromise and sh*t from both parts"; even when you are just trying to survive at the receiving end of abuse. Family systems like this weaponize therapists and social workers at every chance.
It has taken me a long time to finally make more mental/emotional categories for people in my life. I had too few and struggled with boundaries. I got accused of quite a few unfair things recently when I set a boundary with someone. This person then cried victim and one of their enablers made these unfair accusations. Instead of allowing myself to stay emotionally compromised over the accusations, I spent a week managing my emotions and then placing that person in the appropriate category and am thankful now that they showed me who they are and what they think of me so I don't waste anymore of my time trying to build a relationship with them.
Thank you so much for this outlook. I am also 'thankful now'.
Their enabler relationship won't last. They'll engage in a power game, break it off, and one of them will be the "victim" who was "tricked by a narcissist."
It's really easy for people to care about fake victims, but it's easier to split once you know what they're up to.
They react in the way of "attack is the best defense"... but it's not 🙂 They are losing you. A big loss for them. Hard, but eventually better living for you 😊 Stay strong 🍀🙏💜
"I spent a week managing my emotions." That is beautiful. You took the time to actively manage your emotions so you could put yourself in a healthy, functional place. Thank you for sharing this, because I am taking notes.
Thank you for making this video. The new "mental health" trend is overcorrecting yesteryears' doormat issues by promoting an attitude of "not my problem, you're not crossing this line" without open/kind communication first. Not boundaries; electrified, solid-steel walls. Such relationship damage and individual devastation, which will harvest a whole new generation of brokenness and pain.
And the new therapists hungry to jump on this burning-bridge and nose-breaking door-slamming trend are kindling it.
There is absolutely situations where such responses may be necessary, but this is becoming THE way, liberally spread and adopted, destroying loving families and relationships that could/should be salvaged.
I too, have problems asking for help & favors. Because of close narcissists in my life, I've had to learn to lower expectation to the point where I expect no as an answer. My boundary has become, get a no? Don't let it enter you. Let it go & move on. Now you know who & what you're dealing with. BTW, a no should always be delivered with kindness. Always. No excuse.
Thank you for showing us your human side Dr. Ramani. Some people think that clinical psychologists must have it all "figured out". But we're all on this journey together. Btw...i don't like abrupt either. And, sadly, I've given up trying to analyze people that have a false self. It drains the soul.
When I had to nervously learn to set boundaries with an over powering ex narcissist ‘friend’ who was being super inappropriate and disrespectful, she was minimizing and dismissive of it all. I had to learn to be kind but firm with them, yet she still freaked on me. She always expected me to respect her boundaries but she never respected mine, no matter how I expressed it. I agonized over what to say and it caused me severe stress. It became super unhealthy for me so I had to walk away from the friendship. It really shows what kind of person someone is in how they respond to your boundaries. Thank you Dr Ramani ❤
It's the enforcing boundaries that people tend to struggle with, especially around narcs.
Love this. I suspect a lot of abrupt people don't mean to be jerks -- they may just be socially inept...but frankly I never have it in me to stick around long enough to find out. If you can't be human while setting a boundary, then that's the last you'll ever hear from me. That's MY boundary, I guess.
I've got to respectfully disagree. Nine times out of ten when they're called out on it they double down. That suggests they really aren't sorry. If you get to your thirties and still act like that there's pretty much zero chance they haven't been called out multiple times already. They are doing it on purpose and just don't care.
@@IshtarNike
You make an excellent point. I have met one blunt adult who did genuinely care, and tried to stop hurting others with her bluntness, but she just could not do it. It was a sore spot for her and she ended up throwing her hands in the air after years of trying. It wasn't that she had no sense of what sort of words might sting...she said she just didn't know how else to phrase her sentences. Now that I think back on it, I think the real trouble was her inability to discern facts from her own honest opinions. She thought she was just "telling it like it is" by being logical, but her logic was propped up with hidden emotional assumptions. She couldn't see that she was choosing "logical facts" based on her own perception of which facts were important or worthy enough to mention. That involves making a series of (perhaps unconscious) emotional decisions, which are fueled by one's own emotional or moral agenda. Nothing logical about it. It's just manipulation, albeit unintentional.
For people that don't care and are doing it on purpose, I suppose I see it as less a deliberate choice on their part and more as an unfortunate consequence of them shutting down their capacity to be vulnerable, maybe because they've been hurt badly when they were still dependent children and couldn't otherwise cope without the emotional support they were supposed to receive. If you're defended against vulnerable feelings like sadness, disappointment, shame, regret, etc. you can't care even if you want to, because caring puts you at risk of feeling those painful emotions, and your brain is on auto-pilot doing mental gymnastics to avoid that at all costs. If you can't feel your own pain, the pain of others will be incomprehensible and you won't get that you're doing anything wrong. I see these sort of people as unreachable unless they regain their capacity to feel hurt. Narcissists are a whole other ball game though...they know they're hurting you AND they know what they're doing is wrong, and they still don't care. Yikes!
It is so difficult for me to ask for help from anyone. I should’ve known better, but when I was left with two kids when my husband died, and everyone and their uncle was bombarding me with, “If you need anything, just ask,” I finally gained the courage to ask for the help of someone who had offered it, I was promptly and rudely shut down. I was so discouraged and felt so alone. When people ask my advice on how to help widows I tell them not to say “If you need anything just ask,” unless they truly mean it.
Excellent advice.
The one time I set a boundary, I tried being nice, and they tried guilt-tripping me, so I was very clear and blunt. They hung up and never asked me for another favor. I'm sorry if their feelings were hurt, but that's a win in my book!
As someone who has really struggled with setting and even more so, standing up for my boundaries, I sometimes swing too far the opposite direction. I’m still learning how to stand up for myself…
"...an overwhelming discomfort in my body" when I am faced with asking someone for a favor. Absolutely! I have postponed my colonoscopy because I have to ask someone to drive me!
Relatable. There are actually services that will take you and are licensed for a moderate fee. Get the colonoscopy then work on asking people for assistance.
Please, get the colonoscopy done at next possible date 🙏 There are surely people "grateful to be needed". 😊🍀
I have a friend who's very nice, if he can help, he will. But, he can't or doesn't want to, he will just say "no". He is abrupt, but when you learn to know him, you know it's not to make you feel bad, it's just his way to say "no". But as you said, one doesn't have to like everyone, I'd add one can't like everyone.❤
Setting boundaries with my mom is tough. She's talented at rationalizing and I don't want her trying to talk me out of my boundaries or judging them. As a lawyer, she can argue for or against anything.
The point is it doesn't matter if its rational or important to her its important to you thus she should respect it.
Boundaries are absolutely pertinent for oneself. As an Empath, I have NO issues defining and holding steadfast with my boundaries. It's how I didn't fall into the narcissist's behavior and treatment. I walked away unscathed and sooooo much more educated, per se. 💜
Hi Dr Ramani. Always keep your guard up when it comes to your boundaries. I was caught "off-guard" by a woman i met and befriended in a narc room, then i realized how damaged she is. I let it go, but i won't forget it. It was a test, and a great lesson. I broke all ties with her and I'm fine with it. GOOD TOPIC 👍
Your wisdom in dealing with narcissists is invaluable, and I also love to hear about topics that can help when not dealing with a narcissist!
You do realize Dr Ramani specializes in narcissism, right?
@@lorettanericcio-bohlman567 Not sure what you're getting at... I'm simply saying this topic is helpful for dealing with everyone, not just narcissists. I appreciate that.
Oh my! Thank you! This is what I'm going thru RIGHT NOW. I've tried all my life, when I rarely even do, to set boundaries so empathically, and I just get mostly the repeating of my trauma, gaslighting etc. And while I'm currently doing my best to set more firm and carefully clearly stated and repeated boundaries, that doesn't mean folks are going to respect them even when they give lip service that they will.
And then I shared that with someone who ASKED how it was going with these boundary denyers, and this friend did exactly what you were saying. Blame me as if I'm not setting boundaries with these folks. As if I'm the cause of their poor behavior cuz I'm "allowing it" by not being clear at all. Unfortunately that friend has done this in such a way that was rather presumptive and shaming and very hurtful, which is my whole trauma history, and tbh, theirs as well. It's awful.
Thank you for yet again helping us stay clear on our reality and how difficult this is even when you muster the courage yet again.
I relate so strongly with your personal experience of difficulty in asking for help, giving them a out and being so curteous and wanting to do everything myself and shutting down deciding never to ask for help when abruptly told no or just ignored❤
Wow! You are fucking amazing! I tried for the first time to set a boundary with my MIL and it went south real fast! I was literally just diganoised with cancer and lying in bed when she came in town. She was suppose to be here to help me and my husband her son. She honestly didn’t help me a bit. She would wash her own laundry but never once asked if I needed anything washed. Then would turn it around on me like I was the bad guy. I asked her to not tell my sister anything that was going on in my life right that I would tell her what I wanted to share with her. Sorry there’s so much back story in the drama filled episode. My sister had a baby with my husbands brother lots of drama as they were never together. So that’s how my MiL and my sister now talk which I think is triangulation, right? I’m just realizing at 48 what has been going on and wow!!! Anyways, so when I asked her not to share any info with my sister, she blew up and got all defensive. Said that I was trying to fight with her and literally stood up and said no not with me sister and shook her pointing finger at me and stormed out, while I was lying in bed dying with stage 4 cancer!!!! I called after her and said really? And she never came back. So now I am getting ready to go see my niece and sister and I am so anxious about it and don’t wanna go. It sucks we have a small family and we told our siblings this would be weird and uncomfortable and knew that wouldn’t be together then they bring a child into the drama. Sorry thank y’all for listing !!! This video helped so much because I am trying really hard to make boundaries. ❤❤❤love to yall
Thanks! A year ago,I knew nothing about NPD's. My new girlfriend started love-bombing me and it just felt weird. Couldn't put a finger on the exact problem,it shifted. The lack of respect for boundaries led me to dig deeper. Typed in all my notes for internet searches and everything came back NPD. BUMMER! What was too messed up was her empty eyes reminded me of someone that stressed me out. Took a week to realize it was the same mirror-eyes as my mom. Ewww...damnzit😳
Those empty eyes, a "dead" giveaway. And on the other end of the spectrum, tha "I will drain every ounce of your humanity " needy eyes. The many faces of narcissism! 😂
Dr. R., you've talked about how society keeps sliding to the more narcissistic end of the continuum. I'm reminded often of my re-written form of the aphorism about common sense, "Common courtesy isn't so common anymore."
I've taken to saying to myself as I turn away from them, "Ok... ya burnt." Then I put them in a mental box of trash.😅
So appreciate u sharing your own experience of trying to set boundaries.👍🏻🙏❤
My mother has constantly analysed, critiqued, pathologised and infinitised me; from childhood up into my thirties. Invalidating my personal experiences, feelings and thoughts with her opinions and her endless need for control over me. She often will gossip or relay her thoughts of me to other people or triangulate to manipulate a situation. My life events (relationships, travel, my home) are hers to commentate and decide on.
I mention my growth and my achievements to her and I'm often reminded of my mistakes, weaknesses and failures; keeping me in this state of doubt, distress and confusion. Any information I provide seems to be used against me at a later stage. It's almost as if she is threatened by my independence and happiness or she wants me to depend on her.
I've decided to 'grey rock' her to keep our conversation light and non-divisive and it is helping to build my confidence back. I hope someone out there can resonate with this. It's a heart breaking position to be in.
Exactly really heart breaking situation to be in.
Aw man, I was reactively setting boundaries yesterday and ended up being an asshole 😭 I recentered myself and apologized and expressed my feelings and needs in a more diplomatic way today.
😂would have been useful to see this yesterday but we live and we learn!
I loved when you said “I don’t have to play with everyone in the sandbox!” So true!! Thanks! :)
Entitled, prideful, self interested people don’t respect boundaries. Sometimes a boundary is looked at as a welcome opportunity to show they’re in control of not respecting your boundaries. Emotionally healthy people respect others, honor and recognize set boundaries and don’t violate them.
Well said, boundaries are just used to establish dominance.
Meant to say someone else's boundaries are a good tool for establishing dominance.
Thank you Dr Ramani for being here on UA-cam. Your information and advice on the narcissistic personality, is invaluable. Thank you.
Thank you Dr. Ramani. I've always dreaded having to ask anyone for anything and still have trouble asking because of all the negative responses and avoidant reactions. I don't feel so alone navigating through my own feelings and thought processes when it comes to being rejected now. Somehow there's healing there, even while wobbling on the stepping stones trying to keep balanced. Thanks for sharing.
Playing the stupid and helpless card works great when setting boundaries to a narcissist. Unless they are your boss.
If I am playing down on me, I remove their competitiveness drive, because there is no one to compete against.
Is not for every scenario, but if you can handle ironies and your self worth doesn't depend on looking good in every conversation, you'll be fine. 😅
Brilliant!
This has been a huge and on going challenge for me. I joke now that I used to have such loose boundaries until someone hit one hard then I'd push back so hard it was bad and cruel at times. I've been learning to set boundaries more gently but there is always that trigger where old learned behaviors come out. I figured it was because in order to have my boundaries respected with my toxic family I had to get nasty so nasty they didn't want to deal with the drama of pushing me. And I've gotten better but like with asking for help/ letting my needs be known it's a challenge and I check myself often.
I suspected, but didn't really know, that my problem asking for help and that feeling of rejection and dismisiveness, feeling you own your life to whoever helps you once, was from my trauma of growing up in a narcissistic family. Clear to me now. Thank you!
OK so there are times we make mistakes when we're finally standing up for ourselves as well. My experience was that the narcissist was trying to get someone in a group of friends to ask why I wasn't communicating. This messenger had already asked another friend to ask for her .At that point i was very diplomatic and said 'oh we live so far apart we just have lost touch'.. I saw the whole flying monkey thing unfolding and I'd already determined not to talk about it bc in effect it would be accepting the manipulative hoover. Later, at a house party of these same old friends, the original messenger having already heard my answer thru the grapevine came up to me and asked if I was comfortable talking about it. I said no I'm not comfortable and that there was really nothing I could say.... which was very true. This person just stood there looking at me expecting me to say more. I didn't know what else to do but just shrugged and mingled back into the get-together. Turns out she thought I was very rude for walking away. Maybe I was too firm? ... this person was also not taking no for an answer as well. I suppose I could have been nicer.... in my own defense, I was already frustrated and very uncomfortable that it had already come up. The narcisisst had abandoned these friends over a decade before. Another detail is that the narcissist had basically saved the life of the messengers husband medically ages ago. I had no leg to stand on..... That said, even tho mission accomplished it is possible a person may wish they had toned down the intensity.
I think you did very well. It was perfect.
Your wonderful instructions have been very helpful in my establishing boundaries nicely, and without saying "sorry, but." Simply stating, "I cant do that" is enough.
It's hard settin' em w/out leading and/or finishing with an apology , let alone being an a**hole. It's akin to asking permission or apologizing for self-advocating.
Just aim to be an a hole! 😂if you are on the people pleasing spectrum, aim for the a hole will land you right in the middle 🎉
The apology, so true! Good insight.
I get totally what you’re saying. I try to rely on myself so when someone offers to help me when I really need it I’m extremely grateful. I just got away from a few narcissistic people that I thought were my friends but in actuality I was the friend and they weren’t. I’m no longer tolerating one way relationships. I’m not bitter about it as I still have some healing to do big time and I’m going through a grieving process over the loss of my little dog as well which has been harder to deal with 😢💔. I believe I have better days ahead and I’m keeping my faith close to me ✡️🔯. My faith is what keeps me strong and moving on. I never learned to properly set boundaries from childhood so my adventures with the narcissist has been a eye opener experience. I should be grateful at this point of my life and not just drifting in the sea of narcissistic personality types and dodging the red flags 🚩 because I want to have friends, no one needs friends like that. If I want my life to be miserable I can do it all on my own without any help 😊. The trauma bond hits home with me.
I totally appreciate your comment. I am such an empath and that has been the cause of friends who are not friends. Recently I have had to stop these one sided friendships with three people. It has been painful but I am proud of my new skills. I am also proud of you😊
@@donnahill758 thank you for your support. I usually don’t take compliments well as I’m modest but I agree with you and I’m proud of myself for handling a particular situation just recently. I had a so called friend who knew I was moving send me a text weeks before I moved that she wanted to have dinner with me. After her text I heard nothing. Then almost a month later well after I moved I get this text about how much she misses me so my reply back was that she’s the one who wanted to have dinner with me and then I heard nothing so where in that time frame did she really miss me. I changed my cell number because it’s important that I stay no contact with toxic people. I think that that message should be crystal clear, you think 🤔
Sorry about your furbaby. You sound strong and I know youll get through it. Baruch Hashem we were born with brains, now we need to slough off the trauma bond.
@@madelinebock6469 absolutely 👍
Whenever I lose a much loved pet I have to remind myself that grief is not linear and to take as much time as you need to process. Then I remember a quote by the Greek philosopher Pericles (495-429 BC) “Those who can most truly be accounted brave are those who best know the meaning of what is sweet in life and what is terrible, and then go out undeterred to meet what is to come.” 💐
Thanks for sharing Doc. Completely relatable... It feels terrifying to the core to express a need... i belong to two narcissists parents who dint give me food and used to abuse me when i asked for it... also physically abused all the time .. even the basic needs of food & safety was denied by my narc parents.... and all my life I have had such people in my life in career who did the same thing
See the thing is you can set boundaries and still be disrespected and have an outsider claim you didn’t set any making you feel that much worse and now you either have to further exhaust yourself explaining something that isn’t their business or swallow it and move on but it still bothers you.
I was speaking with a coworker (CW#1) when another coworker (CW#2) sort of interrupted our conversation, as she usually does. I can't even remember what CW#2 was saying until she informed me that I had a something on my face while simultaneously touching me to brush it off. Whoa! I pulled back from her to wipe my face and left the area where I was talking with CW#1. I thought did that just happen and doesn't she understand boundaries, apparently not. I took some time to cool off to avoid a sudden outburst of emotions. Later that day, I knocked on her office door to address what had taken place earlier. I didn't position mybody entirely in her office because my intentions were to say what I had to say and leave. I started off saying that while letting me know that something was on my face is okay, please don't touch me or attempt to brush it off. She asked me to come in her office. Bad idea on my part. She asked me if I was serious about what I had just said. Yes, please don't touch. Okay, I won't touch YOU, but you should have said something sooner. What? Well, I fell into the trap of informing that we've had this discussion in the past and to stay in the moment. She clawed and scratched and then told me to get out of her office. I replied you invited me in and walked out of her office. Clearly, CW#2 didin't take kindly to me telling her not touch me because throughout the remainder of the day she looked at me as though I had insulted her. She has a history of not taking responsibility for her actions and when she is confronted becomes very vindictive. There have been times in the past where I didn't confront her with her bad behavior towards me, but lately it's been the oppositive and each time she either deflects or behaves like a toddler and storms off.
You are a gift to humanity Dr. Ramani ❤Never have I felt so much love and appreciation for someone I have never even met as I do for you. Thank you for everything you do, your work has helped me (and so many others) more than you can know :)
I can set boundaries. It's the holding that I struggle with. Both my husband and son poke around the edges to see exactly what they can get away with. It's so subtle sometimes and I can be logiced and lawyered into giving a little here and there until I realize my boundary is long gone
"they save themselves thousands of hours by not being and doing for other people"
It makes me so angry on so many levels sometimes.
Agreed, me too. Like at work, the narcissists take tons of time off and "phone in" the work they actually do while the rest of us take responsibility and run ourselves ragged picking up the slack. It's super frustrating and annoying.
For me, an unknown phenomena, this thing called 'boundaries'. Then, many years of learning. Finally, putting into practice, very badly at first. Practice makes perfect. Still working on it.
Cannot remember how many times I’ve given a polite no, and the response be a belligerent demand. I’m a middle aged, self employed carpenter. Thanks to hgtv, people are very entitled to my attention, time and knowledge, for free. In the past 20 years of doing this and dealing with my own miss perceptions, due to being raised in a generationally traumatized and narcissistic family system, I had to painfully learn in trauma therapy to build, establish, maintain and modify boundaries with myself, to be more effective in building, establishing, maintaining and modifying boundaries outside of myself. A lot of us are here because we had poor boundaries with ourselves, and the narcs knew it when they gave us that little verbal push when we first met them. That back handed compliment or our lack of response when they invalidated or devalued what we said.
My former boss declared, she was "consistant in decisions, but friendly in telling it" 🙂 and she did. She was a mindfull, great boss and there was nothing to argue about.
"Our lack of response when invalidated or devalued" so very true, that is the gateway. Now we know that if a response is met with abuse, time to cut losses. It helps a lot to now know, but still hurts a lot. Sadly anymore I'm inclined to simply avoid most people as a way to minimize such interactions. It can be lonely but does feel good to be able to breath in peace.
I would say "my consulting fee is x per 1/2 hour".
I finally figured out what type of narcissist I have been dealing with thanks to Dr. Ramani. Neglectful narcissist! Thanks Dr. Rameni! This was such an important discovery for me. Now everything makes so much more sense
Dr. Ramani setting us free. A massive gift to humanity. I'm so glad for you that you now know the mechanism of abuse and are building tools to protect yourself.
When hearing Doctor Ramani speak of her feelings around setting boundaries is so relatable. Her content helps me feel better about myself because it gives me a healthy framework to look at my experiences and make good judgement. Bit by bit I am getting rid of ill-conceived notions of myself, and others based on the decades of narcissistic abuse.
She is simply the best!
Agree 💯💖@@palalechat
My daughters are best friends with a girl who's mom is like this when she speaks to me or texts, and I have heard from some family members and friends that - "she's not being rude, she's just bad at communicating". However, I have had emails from her to a long list of people including myself that are super flowery and ingratiating asking for help with events at church (she's a pastor's wife) or inviting people to Bible study. She and her husband (the pastor) are very strict and I have 0 interest in being involved with a church like that. I personally just suspect that they dislike me because I don't get involved with their church activities (I have gone to 2 churches before and incessantly got taken advantage of, worked constantly and got burnt out). They're Baptists and it's not a denomination that interests me.
When she's not speaking about something that could benefit her she shuts down, gives 1-word answers and is dismissive. I've seen her with other parents, and she's much warmer and turns into a different person entirely.
Maybe a good thing is to observe if these blunt people are still blunt with others, or when they're getting what they want?
Oooh ok. Interesting view point. I always feel pressured to “explain myself” if I just don’t want to do something. My trauma response is “you don’t have to JADE”. So I am probably guilty of not giving the soft let down.
I love setting boundaries now. Especially towards narcissistic humans.
Then I smile when they get petty.
Give em the eye roll, giggle and waltz away.
Great Vid Doc. Perfect timing for my very good friend who is currently going through a bit of a rough time with a long term guest in his home who continues to step over my friends (and his wife's) personal boundaries.
My friend is close to breaking point due to many of the reasons you discuss in the video........which really boils down to my friend no longer feeling 'at ease' or 'comfortable' in his own home. My friend has a good heart and he has always struggled to say "No".
I reckon your video might be just the thing he need's right now, so thank you.
It's all about being kind, respectful in your delivery.❤
Thank you for your vulnerability in using yourself as an example, Dr Ramani. Feels good to know that I’m not alone in feeling upset by rude/abrupt people.
thank you so much for being so vulnerable in this video. It means so much to hear about your own experience with this.
I just love how she’s so genuine
I love and appreciate how you share your life experiences. i can totally relate! Keep up the great work you do!
What a great video! Dr Ramani, you have a great sense of humor!
I found your personal anecdotes in this video so damn refreshing!
Dr. Ramani, I encountered a similar situation with a person who was connected with me on LinkedIn. I asked her a question, and she bit my head off. I apologized and left immediately. She must have realized her tone, so she wrote back, trying to make up for the tone. I didn't respond, and to this day, I don't communicate with her at all.
I really appreciate how vulnerable you are in in this example!
Thanks so much for being so authentic.....i can relate so much as a Survivor of a 20 years relationship with a narc. Expressing my needs Is still very difficult!
You are so smart and candid for making sense out of chaos! You're a wealth of knowledge!
This was so amazing to hear, thank you ❤
Dr Ramani, I would love you to flesh out about trauma bondedness and how it results in an inability to approach others for help. I never asked my parents for money, I can't think that I asked them to help me with much, if anything, and I've found throughout my life that it takes a massive leap to ask anyone at all for help, ever. Yet my brother is the polar opposite: he asks for money or assistance at the slightest need, he appears to feel no shame at all for his irresponsible use of money and his failure to pay his own way. What would be behind this massive difference between two siblings?
And you look truly amazing today. Your hair, your makeup, that stunning blue blouse, all suit you so well!
Thank you Doctor Ramani - this video is so helpful. 👍
❤❤❤ Blessed by Your Wisdom! ❤❤❤ Thank you Dr. Ramani & Team! 🤚🎉🤚 Have an awesome day!!
Thank you! ❤️ I’ve been waiting on this video for SO LONG. 🙏🏻
I love it, Thank You Dr. Ramani❤
It's hard to ask for help, especially when you know that some people will likely bite off your head! Of course, having only very recently gotten out of a narcissistically abusive relationship, I find myself doing the the buying and snapping myself! That makes me feel horrible. I need to really work on setting boundaries and CALMLY telling people "no." I hate making people feel the way I felt for so long! 😢
Agreed, learning how to say no is challenging after suppressing all needs for so long. Good for you for taking on the challenge! Mistakes are integral to learning.
“We can say what we need to say.
We can gently, but assertively, speak our mind.
We do not need to be judgmental, tactless, blaming or cruel when we speak our truths.”
-Melody Beattie
Asking for help is like that for me, too. I just have to tear off the bandaid. I usually set it up, and then distract myself so I'm not ruminating, and then hit send.
Especially when someone is dismissive, it can be so difficult to ask for needs to be met.
I have been told that I am expected to be more assertive of my needs, even after someone has said no in an unnecessarily cruel way; like, I am supposed to feel welcome to continue asking this person. 🤨
It hurts when they try to convince me that my request is not actually a legitimate need, when it really is. It's like they pick and choose what to believe, which is really disrespectful. Like I'm a small child that cannot tell what my actual needs are.
This couldn't have come at a better time for me. Thanks. This is so healing for me.
I AM LOVING THIS VULNERABILITY OF SHARING AND HILARITY DR RAMANI!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! YOU ARE THE BEST!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Looking absolutely stunning Dr!
Dr. Ramani - thank you for sharing your story! I thought it was just me, but I too have a very difficult time asking for anything from anyone else. I am a few years older than you and my experiences have been hell on earth. What scares me is the thought of being able to continue to do for myself as I age. Thanks again.
Ramani .you deserve so much love. You are wonderful. Your vulnerability is authentic not manipulative or self pitying . it is my true honor to know you even if it is just per UA-cam. Thank you for being you.
I once had someone agree to something, then when I brought up what they’d already agreed to, go off about how I’m pushing boundaries. I called it land mines: something hidden for the express purpose of having an excuse to berate someone when they don’t act how you want