One good quote about the situation I heard was "The Mandalorian Wars is what happens when the Jedi don't get involved with a war [manipulated by the Sith], the Clone Wars is what happened when they do."
Damned if they do, damned if they don’t. Spawned from the Mandalorian Wars, the Jedi Civil War and the Revan taking power. Then, from the Clone Wars, the destruction of the Order.
Yeah. Jedi honestly should just do their regular thing even during war, which in negotiation, peacekeeping and complex missions which which would usually require agents/spies/special forces. And obviously trying to find the sith.
The Jedi were always expected to either fight in the war or sit it out, but this was the first war that happen within ten thousand years of peace and no doubt that the populace of the Galaxy were hoping for the Jedi to end the war as quickly as possible to bring back normalcy. In truth the Jedi would have been part of the war even if the Sith were not a part of it because of the political fallout of these thousand years of peace would have ended.
There is even more at play here which makes the fall of the Jedi Order and the Republic, even more tragic in several ways. The Jedi Order, as you point out, had become more closely bound and intertwined to the very ideals and survival of the Republic itself - from earlier beginnings of a more detached and informal relationship, where the religious order had initially been more distinct. By the time of the Skywalker Saga, without doubt, the Jedi Order has become something of a custodian force adding an extra layer of credibility and strength to the Republic. In many ways, this came at the expense of the Jedi Order itself. The Supreme Chancellor Finis Valorum had the Jedi at his service, and they were happy to oblige, settling disputes and making diplomatic missions. What often gets overlooked here however, is the _sheer scale_ of that mission; the Jedi were sent out, often alone or in pairs (of Master and apprentice) and more rarely as part of larger strike teams or enforcement groups. Not merely a judicial force or elite form of that, the Jedi were still multi-faceted in their aims and internally driven, High Council-made decisions. Yet for all that, in some ways, to compare them to a religious branch of the judicial forces of the Republic, isn’t too far wrong. They were special, and different from the other judicial forces, though they were still beholden to the Republic from the top down. This relationship had taken many centuries to form. Even at it’s height in this era (not that it was necessarily the numerical height of the Jedi Order in totality, across over 25,000 years of galactic history, mind you), during the prequels, the Jedi Order counted on little over ~10,000-11,000 Jedi galaxy wide, from a population of at least several hundred quadrillion or so sentient beings in said galaxy. A tiny, tiny number to help police, patrol and mediate between entire worlds, star systems and sectors. In the Outer Rim, Jedi often travelled though the Republic grasp on so many star systems there, ebbed and flowed (mostly ebbing away; for other places, there had never been any Republic presence at all) The loss of a single Jedi Knight before his or her time was and should be remembered to be seen, as a serious loss for the Jedi Order and Republic. It could make the difference between a peaceful, negotiated settlement on a backwater world, and that world alternatively backsliding into turmoil. The Jedi couldn’t always do right by themselves or the Republic, and it is not to say they were perfect or flawless. Of course, they were not. However, very regularly, a Jedi delegation or mission to a planet, could save so much grief for both the people of that world, and the planet. In spite of how, during the Clone Wars, the Jedi became increasingly painted as warmongers and vilified as mad crusaders (this image, made all the worse post-Order 66, when Palpatine accused them all of being traitors to the Republic, trying to seize power illegally, for their own cult based purposes), the fact remains; the Jedi were still, by and large, especially prior to the Clone Wars, seen with immense respect and often deference. Kings, warlords and industrialists knew better than to cross the Jedi, from one corner of the galaxy to the next. Worlds as disparate as Kashyyyk, Rugosa, Mon Calamari, Naboo, Ansion, Dantooine and Raxus Secundus, had some idea of how important and influential the Jedi could be. They had, for millennia untold, interwoven their story into the fabric of the galaxy, and it still shone bright in the time of the waning days of the Galactic Republic. As corrupt and decadent as the Republic had become, as complacent and smug perhaps as the Jedi Order itself had strayed into being, the Jedi Knights were still largely perceived with a degree of awe. From a purely numerical perspective alone, it’s likely the vast majority of the people of the galaxy never even saw one. Many would have heard of Jedi, or seen holograms of them in action, or heard perhaps of a local tyrant, bounty hunter or thug being simply taken down by one of these Jedi. Yet still, vast numbers of the people of the Republic and especially those beyond it’s borders, would not necessarily have even seen one for real. Making this all the more apparent, is the fact that often, Jedi kept a low profile when going about their ‘Jedi business’ or otherwise moved swiftly in and out of star systems pursuing specific goals. For instance, Obi-Wan Kenobi’s investigations into Jango Fett had led him Kamino, at that time an uncharted planet (because Dooku had removed it from the Jedi Archives himself, not that anyone realised) Now, in spite of him finding Kamino, and even making contact with Jango Fett (to the point that ‘contact’ became violent), the revelation of the Clone Army itself didn’t dissuade Kenobi from following his mandated mission to follow Jango Fett. It wasn’t as though he spent much time on Kamino for the time being, having been given a tour of the cloning facilities of Tipoca City and having spoken with the Kaminoan scientists and their Prime Minister. My point though, is that most Kaminoans would not have seen him. This, as a typical example. Jedi were busy and...always on the move. There were so few Jedi galaxy wide, that the Republic leant hard on them to help broker negotiations. What is extremely tragic about the corruption of the Jedi Order in it’s servitude to the ailing Republic, is that it all began out of honourable intention. Back in the days of the High Republic, there had been great hopes for the future, and the Jedi Order had apparently seen off the Sith and integrated their mighty Order with the Republic in a closer way than ever before. Superficially, it’d look like wisdom. In real-world political philosophy, we’d call this a union of Church and State. Now, to our sensibilities, this would be abhorrent in the 21st century now, as the overreach of the Church within a secular society would not be deemed positively by vast swathes of the population, even if a smaller group vociferously wanted it to be the case. In Western style democracies, although political corruption is common and oligarchical power structures are rife, globally, most people wouldn’t want theocracy to return. I’m not accusing the Jedi Order of being akin to the Papacy in Medieval Christendom or something, not so directly. I’m merely pointing out that it wouldn’t take much to prod the likes of the Jedi Order into going down that path, if things went badly wrong. Obviously it’s an imperfect comparison. George Lucas always made the Jedi to be a strange but fascinating mix of the Samurai of Japan and the Crusader Knights of Western Europe. There is a dash of the Samurai in Kenobi, as much as there is a dash of the English Knight. In Star Wars, the Jedi Order spent so long bound to the State (to use real-world political language) so to speak, that they had become _institutionalised_ to it. I firmly believe that Jedi like Mace Windu had become _so in love with the very image and idealism_ of the Republic, that ironically they could not themselves see the irony of calling Dooku a political idealist, when they themselves were latched obsessively to the ideal of the Republic itself. Yoda meanwhile was the false prophet, preaching wisdom while losing everything; complacent, dogmatic, patronising, ideologically entrenched and philosophically overbearing. Even he knew. Windu, perhaps even more than Yoda, was so duty and honour bound to protecting the ideal of the Republic he cherished so dearly, he ultimately went as far as trying to strike Palpatine down. He could not handle the feeling of immense betrayal that Palpatine was a Sith Lord the entire time - even with Anakin’s warning. Even though, Palpatine himself clearly let Anakin know, to go and tell him. Such was Windu’s turmoil, that he could not think clearly. Striking out, Windu struggled with the cognitive dissonance of his predicament. His world/galaxy-view was on fire. The only thing that made sense to him now was killing Palpatine. Windu’s attachment to the Republic was his doom. Dooku, tragically, wanted to find a way to fix the Jedi Order. He saw no hope for the corruption addled Republic. Unfortunately, that is where and when Palpatine stepped in, seeing his opportunity. He ruined everything. Dooku's Separatist idealism, engulfed into the machinations of the Sith. Dooku alone is an immensely tragic character. By all rights,the better side of Dooku's earlier political work as a political firebrand, was entirely reasonable - and the non-corrupt sections of the early Separatists were righteous in their secessionism. The Republic _did_ abuse them, take them for granted and shove it's narrative of greed and unpunished corporate corruption down their throats. They genuinely _did_ have a noble cause. Then the greedy industrialists took over the proceedings, even as Dooku himself became a Sith Lord; immediately negating any true loyalties he had to the Separatists - they were only ever pawns now, and pawns he would betray. The Clone Wars, a farcical puppet show controlled by Palpatine; a Punch and Judy Show writ large, simultaneously destroying scores of Jedi and weakening their order. Controlled opposition, slamming into each other for only as long as Palpatine needed, as a catalyst for the Rise of the Empire. The Jedi never stood a chance. They were blind while thinking themselves wise.
I think StarWarsReadingClub put it best in saying that the Jedi Order fell because they bent to the will of the Republic, not the will of the Force. Mace Windu, often thought of as a premier Jedi, had actually failed the Order's own litmus test by forming an emotional attachment to the Republic. It was his "love" for the Republic that lead to his death and subsequently Order 66. The Republic Jedi Order was fundamentally flawed, with Yoda, Vader, Sidious, and Obi-won all coming to the conclusion seperately that the Order had to fall.
Something I never (but just) thought about: The Sith defeated the Jedi by making them believe they no longer existed. The Jedi returned and defeated those Sith by making THEM believe THEY no longer existed (Obi-Wan and Yoda in hiding, to train Luke in secret to bring them down).
Palpatine: I am AGAINST believing the Jedi Order to be the ones to have started and waged war across the galaxy! Also Palpatine: *(Secretly) gives them the GA* alright you kids have fun committing war crimes
@@user-ft3jq5vi2l Except they....weren't a sovereign state....? The CIS wasn't even technically official yet, do far as I'm aware. Nor does it matter anyhow, because it was all illegal and illegitimate anyhow.
@@papapalps2415 the CIS declared its own independence 2 years before the events of AotC, it was just not recognised. And what the republic thinks is pretty irrelevant, after countries like the USA or Mexico declared independence their former colonial overlords still fought them for years before recognising them, even when they were perfectly functioning separate countries. Heck, why do I go with an example from 200 years ago, just look at China and Taiwan in the present!
@@papapalps2415 also, who decides what is illegal or illegitimate anyhow? The republic? If we perpetually stuck to what was originally "legal" or "legitimate", we would still be ruled by the right of lake ladies distributing swords.
@@user-ft3jq5vi2l Agreed! I mean, if I went around sayin' I was an emperor just because some moistened bint had lobbed a scimitar at me they'd put me away!
A question I asked myself for quite some time now: Why did the Seperatist Parliament approve the creation of the Seperatist Council and the Droid Army? The Seperatist movement started out as a liberation movement against the exploitation and oppression of the Rim by the Galactic Core (the later of which completely dominated the institutions of the Republic on all levels). They stressed the massive influence core-based corporations had on the Republic through both corruption and outright representation in the Senate. And they stressed the brutal exploitation of Rim worlds by said core-based corporations. Heck, according to the Canon book "Star Wars Propaganda: A History of Persuasive Art in the Galaxy" the watershed event that lead to creation of the Seperatist movement and the rebellion of large parts of the Rim after centuries of unrest and anti-republic sentiment, actually was the fact that Trade Federation Viceroy Nute Gunray managed to evade legal persecution via corruption following the battle of Naboo, a turn of events that made it very clear how utterly corrupt the Republic actually was. Why on earth would such a movement give the very core-based corporations it seeked to free the Rim from control over it's military? To make a historical analogy here, it literally was as if the FNL had given control over it's Armed Forces to Renault, Michelin and Total during the Algerian War.
One word, desperation. The Sith had manipulated the Separatists into believing the Republic would inevitably violently crush and subjugate them, and since on their own they did not have the military/resources to stand against the Republic they needed the military power offered by the Corporate powers. It was seen as a lesser of two evils you see. They also falsely hoped they could rein in the Corporate powers after they had won their freedom from the Republic.
@@Jester0879 To further add to it, there were harsh sanctions and restrictions imposed on the Separatists, such as they were not allowed to have turbo lasers on their ships, and they couldn't have a standing army, yet the republic was doing little to nothing to stop the pirate raids on the Separatist trade vessels. On top of the taxes that were imposed on them. It was easy to manipulate the Separatists.
Golly gee fucking gosh, its almost like as if the CIS weren't poor, poor innocent abused puppies, but as we see in....hm, around every single individual piece of media in the ENTIRE FUCKING FRANCHISE, they were a group alliance between numerous different cold blooded, abjectly evil corporations, with a distant window dressing of democracy and blah blah blah that we see in a handful of episodes in a TV show that has dozens. Stop. Fucking. Nitpicking. TCW. Both the show itself and the actual movies are very quite fucking clear who actually runs the CIS, and it sure as shit isn't Schrodingers wunderkin abused puppy dogs that you seem to be trying to pretend exist in any meaningful manner.
While a thousand years of life enabled Yoda to keep the Jedi on course reliably, it also brought a lack of flexibility and undetected self-righteousness. If for eight hundred years Yoda was the most credible authority on the Jedi ways I can't blame him entirely. Who I can blame is the other Jedi who should have been able to notice and make him aware... ah, but peace-time only challenged their ability to police, not their teachings.
Tough men make soft times, soft times make soft men, soft men create tough times, tough times create tough men. And it goes on and on and on. Peace, war, two sides of the same coin
Qui-Gon was one of the few left who bent the rules and realized the direction the Order was going, and we all know how the Council felt and treated him because of Phantom Menace.
To be more fair to the Jedi, the Separatist tactics were just lesser versions of what the Sith did, Sith Empires keep forming on the outer reaches of the galaxy, the First Order being an example of this, and wouldn’t it make more sense to not call your Sith Empire a “Sith Empire”? Like with the Republic, wouldn’t it make more sense to look like a democracy before the truth comes out? Speaking of which, can you do a video on what would happen if Dooku decided to be a traditional Sith and utilize the CIS to its fullest extent. Everyone on the topic says that if Dooku won the Clone Wars for the CIS, he would either be a benevolent leader that would lead the Separatists to be a better democracy than the Republic or he would just turn the CIS into a de-facto Sith Empire.
If you saw a video Geetlys made about his beliefs: Dooku was despite all his talk at his core a fascist, despite preaching high about democracy. He despised having "lesser beings" (as he saw them) get their wishes listened to, or have to be kissed up to, and believed in an enlightened dictator forcing the Galaxy/Senate to their whim as the only way forward - One with humans at the helm, of course. So if Dooku decided to betray Palpatine and somehow pulled out a win - You would probably be looking at a de-facto Sith Empire/dictatorship. One where strength was what ruled, and where democracy would be burned to dust as a "worthless system" that catered too much to "inferiors/weaklings." Despite his talk and whatever original beliefs during his Jedi years - Dooku's galaxy wouldn't be a very pleasant place. A benevolent dictator a Sith lord does not make for, and despite Palpatine seeing Dooku as more a Dark Jedi than Sith...Dooku wouldn't be very benevolent if in power.
@@videocrowsnest5251 I agree completely. I mean, Dooku knew since the beginning that Palpatine's plan was to create a Galactic Empire, and he was completely on-board. Actually, how he thought the Empire would be was closer to the older Sith empires, with him and Palpatine at the helm, and Anakin commanding an army of Dark Jedi. I think that, sure, Dooku _did_ believe that the Republic was filled with corruption when he was younger, but ultimately, he hijacked the separatist movement in order to fool the Jedi, but he was fooled as well. He _was_ a Jedi too, after all.
Palpatine had the jedi wrapped around his finger so tight its a wonder it didn't cut off circulation. And frankly the jedi order deserved to fall. It was a puritanical, rigid structure so bogged down in tradition they couldn't see a sith lord literally standing right in front of them. They didn't just lose after order 66, it was the moment the clone wars began, maybe even earlier. That's why Luke was so important, why his restoration of the Jedi was much bigger than simply reviving a dead religion. I consider Luke's first true act as grand master of the new order being saving his father, because he did so through love, through his attachment to him. In that moment he dismantled what little was left of the old, archaic way of thinking, the same way of doing things that pushed Anakin into becoming Vader, and proved that those attachments, those feelings, were a source of strength. Yet unlike the sith his feelings were entirely selfless, his attachment lead him to be willing to sacrifice himself if it meant saving someone else, as opposed to Anakin who was manipulated into sacrificing others for the sake of those attachments.
I know this is a bit off topic, but when you briefly mentioned the 10 years from when the Sith first announced themselves, right through to the Battle of Genosis, I feel that time-span would make for a good animated series. Seeing Dooku's decent into the Dark Side, and just all the incremental schemes Palpatine was hatching, maybe a few more baddass episodes with Cad Bane ;)
Adventures of Qui Gon and Obi Wan, adventures of Obi Wan and Anakin, adventures of Luke, adventures of the true next generation would all make great animated series.
2:12: The Star Wars reason as to why I dislike overlong peace and stability, despite its initial benefits: this will lead to stagnation, overdosed complacency, pamperedness, and some bits of boredom. If you change a lot of the terms here with real life comparisons, it gets all the more relevant and downright unsettling *at best.*
Is there a real life solution that doesn’t rely on deceiving ourselves into categorizing manslaughter as acceptably legitimate professions? There has to be a better way to challenge ourselves without generational wars of extinction.
@@dar-nakkallig I find it ironic that there is allegedly nothing left to challenge oneself with as a Jedi in a galaxy spanning republic even in peace time - but that might not have been the case if they were actually serving the force and not the senate- they didn’t have this problem Until they became the republic’s free police force … it just meant slow to act jedi reinforcements after billions had died first…
In the past there were many Sith Lords that were fighting for control and for be the greatest of all, in the clone wars there was only one real sith, the others were pawns that will never be a threat
Hindsight is of course my power here, but: Provided the Jedi figured out the war was bait, they would have had two choices (at the very least) ahead of them: Take the bait and hope to survive, OR don't take it, and get labeled as traitors. The funny thing is the second option probably would have in essence been more useful for the Jedi order. If they knew this was the outcome, and did not have an attachment to the Republic - they could have evacuated their order off Coruscant discreetly and set up shop somewhere else remotely. While they would have in the short-term lost face, and been considered traitors, this would have given them an opportunity to study the Clone Wars with more forces left standing. Of course, I bet Palpatine and Dooku would have still kept up their little war game (Which was really just Palpatine Vs palpatine the whole time), with the goal shifting from luring the Jedi into still trying to do good from the sidelines/destroying them with both Republic and CIS arsenals turned against them. All in all - While the path taken (march into the trap) did turn out well in the end after a heck of a long time with lots of pieces falling into play..I cannot help but wonder what the path not chosen (don't walk into the trap and get labeled as traitors) would have held. The Jedi order would have surely not gotten out of that one very easily either, but if they were quick to see the way the wind was blowing and fled Coruscant fast they would have been able to avoid having most of their numbers thinned out, as well as still have the powerhouses in the Jedi High Council being at full power (as full power as they could be during those days anyways) with no war weariness and force bond damage sustained. This would have potentially allowed the Jedi to make plans for their return, and as an added bonus they would have also gotten to have Palpatine to reveal his hand a lot earlier than he did - Thus the identity of Darth Sidious would become far more evident. So yea...coulda worked out as well if the chips fell into the right order. The key flaw in my speculation is of course the Jedi order would have to ditch their morals a bit here, and in essence pull a pretty selfish move with trying to preserve themselves rather than the Galaxy as a whole..which sounds suspiciously darksider like.
This is better than I thought! This makes me cannot help but admire Palpatine even more despite how nasty he is! P.S: I thought the Jedi were only fighting in this war for the sake of taking newborn babies who are Force-sensitive to be recruited into their ranks.
@Geetsly's A video I'd like to see would be on the spread of military hardware to civilians after the Clone Wars. Something I had been curious about since "The Bad Batch" showed Geonosian speeder bikes used by the Pantoran police and the Martez sisters owning at least one GAR-issue DC-17 blaster pistol.
Was Phase I clone armour stronger than Phase II? Fives is killed by a blaster bolt to his presumably Phase II chestplate, while Rex is hit with one in Star Wars Rebels, lives, and says Phase I is great. So, was it stronger? It seems they're equally useless at stopping blaster bolts in The Clone Wars, so is there another factor at play? Rex's modifications? The age of the droids and their weaponry? Or was Rex's armour just powered by plot?
Phase II is stronger. There are lots of factors that go into it. I didn’t watch Rebels, so I can’t say much on Rex’s account. The three things to consider is weaponry, where you’re hit, and popularity/plot armor. Commander Fox is actually worth his shit, so he not only hit Fives, he got him through the heart by a DC-17, a *heavy* blaster pistol. Those types of weapons are known for having about as much power as a blaster rifle. That right there is pretty much death on the spot. I don’t know where Rex was hit or hit by, but Rex truly is a fan favorite. If they actually killed him, there would be a lot of pushback by fans. So, they’d never do it. Though, consider where he got hit and what he got hit by.
So the Sith Fucked them all Basically? Remind me to teach my Own Jedi Students About this for real I wanna avoid these plethora of Mistakes made by my Predecessors
All of this makes palpatines plan EVEN more intelligent, the jedi literally had almost no chance to do anything about the war and were forced to play palpies game
Hi geetsly.. you asked for suggestions of vids. How about a look into the army. Who made up the army? Why were the conscripts so loyal to the empire? Which versions of the army were clones and which were enlistees.
I’m impressed how obvious u made the answer seem lol. I actually never put any thought into it to question the plot, but that all definitely made way more sense than I realize the whole thing WOULD have made to me, had I sat down and considered it. I mean, it’s pretty clear they didn’t have a choice, or at least if they wanted to keep their current high standing in the galaxy, and not be at least ostracized, but I hate to say, I probably wouldn’t have seen their point of view clearly, like u laid it out!
what if the republic never got rid of its navy and army of the old republic but insted down sized so they could aford to maintain it and so pirates woundnt be a threat and criminal orgnizations like the pikes and blake sun cant rule there own worlds
but insted of the jedi puting there whole order at risk in military service only a few jedi would serve in the millitary of the republic like rahm kota and mace windu or the one with knowlege of war fare and stratigy
@@codyyancey1367 this could have been a nice plot point for an actually decent sequel trilogy. Not to say it’s an obvious plot point but it’s totally a good one
Hey, Geetsly's, I love your content. I really do. It's high quality, well structured, and covers very interesting topics. However, this left me wondering why you get so little views. At first, I wondered if you might be recycling your content like some other channels, but after looking for myself, I really don't think you do that. This, of course, left me with an unanswered question that frankly baffled me. And after looking at your content, I think I might have a few suggestions for you. 1. Treat your video titles more like gossip. Take this one for example: The ulterior motive behind the Jedi's involvement in the Clone Wars. While my title is a bit wordy, it's far more interesting (in my opinion) than yours: The dark truth behind why the Jedi actually fought in the Clone Wars. Get what I mean? :) 2. Try condensing your content a little. You often take a long time to build up to your main talking point, and if you do want to keep that all in, maybe consider putting that main point first, before the title card. It should tighten things up, and makes things feel shorter. 3. Consider making shorts. UA-cam shorts tend to get very high views for how short they are, and I feel like they would work pretty well. When making them, you could shorten the content you normally make. Including just your main talking point(s), and maybe a retelling of the hook (title). These are just some things I noticed, a some opinions that I have. You don't need to listen to them, and I'm not offering them up from a position of experience. I simply want to see you succeed and grow more than you already have. Good luck, and keep up the great work! :D
The Jedi literally plotted to give Palpatine the power to start the clone wars, and they used Jar-Jar of all people to do so. They were so easily manipulated it would make a hilarious comedy special if it weren’t so tragic
Unspoken not public perception of them being a sith puppet state. This plays again into the jedi’s arrogant inflexibility by jumping to the simplistic conclusion of Dooku is sith lord and head of the sep parliament = sith puppet empire because sith = deceitful and bent on domination Pathetically naive more than blind hatred … as well as being unable to say no because the Jedi can’t Fight off the republic
@@Mourtzouphlos240 Yeah, silly of me to miss that … and the republic was too…. Ugh. I don’t know what I was thinking to miss it’s all a sith empire puppet state to ultimately target the Jedi… more accurate to say the Jedi couldn’t criticize or oppose the republic to notice the changes much less do anything about it until they had a confirmed Sith Lord to attack …. And by then it would be too late to change the republic back and taking out sidious would dis honor the Jedi into being fugitives …
Did the Ruusan reformation chain the Jedi to the Senate Judiciary? Were the Jedi in need of legitimacy after piloting the Republic through the new Sith wars, considering unpopular actions like taking force sensitive children?
I’m not certain but in effect that sounds accurate, it was all about a rebirth of the republic and peace where the desperate lesser evils of militarism and armies could finally (in theory) be buried, generals could now retire to be police, and the people could participate again in their own governments instead of war time survival constrictions.
Well in darth plaguies you actually see the scheming with the senators. Even plaguies puts on gatherings in mockery of the republic. And senators go to this and have fun with hunting stuff. This overall is showing you the darkside of the people in charge. Jedi did try to get to the moon with no success.
th e second they became a memeber of the republic militia was the day the jedi died, every day after lead to their down fall, as a seperate organization they were strong as a republic pawn they became weak and deserved what they got...
No matter how ya slice it, the Jedi FAILED. Utterly and completely. Yoda himself is, perhaps, the most at fault. 800 years as a Jedi and yet he could not detect a Sith Lord who was standing a meter in front of him. And yes, you are correct. The Jedi were ready to fight the last war - much like the French before WW2. There's a saying, "Every great cause begins as a movement, becomes a business and deteriorates into a racket." The Jedi were in the Racket Stage. They had become a rigid, narrow, puritanical sect - devoid of imagination, inspiration or originality. Jedi fanaticism was much worse than the Sith's - they refused to consider that they might be wrong. "The Jedi Code!" became a voluntarily dawned straight jacket. The Jedi Order deserved to be destroyed. Of course, that doesn't mean the Jedi should have been slaughtered, only that the Order had outlived its usefulness and had become a mortal threat to not itself but the Republic. In their blindness, the Jedi became the perfect tools for Plagueis and Sidious to use to create their Empire.
The real reason was because Yoda owed Nute Gunray millions and millions of credits from gambling debt. He orchistrated the war so he wouldn't have to settle and declare bankruptcy.
Personally, I think the sith are overrated. They did eventually defeat the jedi order, yes... but it took a millennium of following the rule of two to achieve that, and within a single generation their empire had collapsed and the jedi returned. In order to have a few decades of absolute power, they gave the Republic ten centuries of (relative) peace. So to my mind, the rule of two was a massive waste of time. I also don't think it's a coincidence that the sith who finally defeated the jedi (albiet temporarily) was the one who was willing to break that rule.
The rule of two was also idiotically risky. They didn't even had good chances that it would work. A plan becomes always more difficult the more time and variables are at play. So you need to be able to survive even critical failure, which the Sith in this time were not. It worked because the OT was made before the Sequels, not more not less.
In the grand scheme of things, it actually shows the magnitude of the defeat of the Sith a thousand years prior, because _this_ was their resort (Darth Bane's crazy, long term vision for the Sith) It definitely created results, but I would agree with your interpretation that, by and large, that took way too long and to be honest, didn't have staying power. Even the full regalia, pomp and material means of the Galactic Empire at it's height could not ensure Palpatine's grasp on power. If anything, he'd enfeebled his legions so much through Tarkin's Doctrine, that they looked pathetic compared to the elite Clone Legions. But that is a more technical matter. Philosophically, the Sith relying on a thousand year master plan was in itself, something we can perceive as shrewd though ultimately indicative of the desperation they faced. I suppose they didn't care how long they were in charge as long as they ultimately got what they wanted. Yet therein, precisely, lies the absolute madness of Sith ideology; it is erratic and once the Sith gain power, they are immediately going to find some whacky way to lose said power, out of either their own arrogance or in-fighting (or both) Remember, it was a redeemed Anakin (Vader) whom saved Luke his son from Palpatine torturing him. Palpatine was so insane by that point that he legit thought he could stand right next to Anakin (even if he did just see him as Vader at that point still) and torture his own flesh and blood to death with Force Lightning. It was absolutely a power play. Palpatine was vocally egging Luke on to kill Vader/Anakin, and obviously Vader/Anakin knew he was expendable the moment Luke was discovered to be whom he was (and in further media, this has been elaborated on even more, this toxic relationship between Palpatine and Vader, as Palpatine very obviously was _disappointed_ in weakened, post-Mustafar Vader, and constantly 'messed with him' ever since) Ironically it begs the question, did Palpatine actually embrace the possibility that Vader would eventually kill him? Palpatine legit even brags to Yoda in ROTS/Episode III that, "Darth Vader will become more powerful than either of us!", to Yoda. Now, if you just step back for a moment and think about what Palpatine just said to Yoda, that really begins to make one think. It has all kinds of implications about Palpatine. What was he intending to do if Vader _did_ become drastically stronger than even he? Palpatine was a monster of the dark side, but a fully-trained and realised (non-mutilated) Chosen One, would have gone beyond anything the galaxy had ever seen (and I'm not interested in all that Abeloth rubbish etc 12 times stronger than peak Luke? WTF Star Wars Legends, just WTF lol) I like to think that the only thing Palpatine would tolerate dying for, on any level, was the *Sith Order itself* which adds a lot to his character. If he is outright _gloating_ not just admitting Vader will surpass himself, even as he goes toe to toe with Yoda with a literal power advantage (Sidious was a bit stronger than Yoda) this does basically beg the question: does he think he's gonna die? How does he even feel about that? Is he just talking a big game to Yoda? Or does he really think that eventually Vader will be the 'ultimate Sith' and that if he himself (Palpatine) has to die to achieve it, then so be it? It does make one wonder. At that level, Vader would be practically immortal. A god among men in the SW galaxy; not merely a Galactic Emperor. Tempted by this, I believe Palpatine risked everything including his own life (when confronted by Windu) to 'tempt' and 'lure' Anakin to a) implicate him in Jedi murder and b) force his hand to serve him at last. The bittersweet irony of Kenobi's greatly deserved victory over raging, smug Vader on Mustafar, being that Palpatine himself perhaps viewed it as himself now, 'being off the hook'? Even more ironically, Palpatine was mad at Vader for losing and being mutilated and weakened, and never let him forget it. Palpatine practically bullied Vader for the rest of his life. But before Mustafar, Vader was some prize to Palpatine, some ultimate end goal victory for the Sith. Perhaps that's just how insane and erratic the Sith had become that they'd have to invest so many hopes on one successor, but there you go; Palpatine tried out three apprentices - one he never intended to go much further beyond being a practice run, the next he wanted as a frontman and fall guy during the Clone Wars, and the last he ultimately ended up using as an overgrown imperial enforcer on life support. Luke was supposed to be 'the Anakin as he should/could have been', at least under Sith control. Nevertheless, I'd agree with you that ultimately to invest a literal millennia into producing some ultimate Sith, personified in one dervish of destruction, was perhaps, a mistake. They were practically an endangered species so to speak (and I know, I know, they aren't one species, and the Sith species literally is extinct in that original context, but I'm talking about 'species' more poetically and artistically, with a different context; e.g. like saying, 'that is a rare species of the truth' etc) The Jedi Order, for all it's blissful ignorance, complacency, dogmatic blindness and sometimes outright stupidity born of overbearing philosophical indoctrination, was still more successful by and large, than the Sith Order. The Sith played a blinder and pulled a fast one on them, hoodwinking them in a very spectacular and horrific way, for a little while; but even so, Kenobi and Yoda dedicated the remainder of the corporeal lives to defending the 'new hope' (Luke) and especially Kenobi of course, literally staking out Owen Lars' moisture farm and shielding the place from Tuskens, pirates, bounty hunters and worse (even Maul) He didn't even pick a particularly clever alias to use ('Ben Kenobi') Simply because it was Tatooine, he probably didn't need to. Palpatine turned a blind eye to the Hutt operations on Tatooine and hundreds of other worlds, as the Empire expanded and they pragmatically avoided fights with giant criminal cartels while trying to tackle one problem (the rebels) at a time. I'm fairly certain that had the Galactic Empire endured a full-century, Palpatine (presumably in some clone body or other by then) would be more willing to crack down on criminal gangs etc mainly because, by then, theoretically in that alternative timeline, he simply wouldn't need them around anymore. They only got away with it because they weren't ready to cut them loose yet. Given half the chance, I'm sure they would have (much as, given the first opportunity, the anti-Imperials on Tatooine took advantage post-Endor and overthrew the remaining garrison forces still posted there, grimly skewering their helmets to spikes in public areas as displays of their gladness over shaking off the yolk of the Empire) That said, as much as the Jedi through the likes of Kenobi, Ahsoka (I count her as a Jedi cos yeah, no matter what happened, she still basically was one, albeit, changed) and Yoda suffered in exile, they still won. Now, I personally dislike the sequels heavily and prefer not to look at them or consider them canon, but they _are_ canon whether we like this or not, and so even there, the Jedi won. The First Order and Final Order were both wiped out. The Sith Eternal, destroyed. Palpatine himself finally destroyed (until Disney want him back for lack of originality) It's sad really. In the end, Palpatine just looks like an old lunatic. As immensely talented, powerful and skilled as he was, the absolute apex of the Sith in any area, canonically (sorry Vitiate, you're cool and scary dude but Palpatine is still better), _even Palpatine_ is just some relic maniacally threatening the entire galaxy to get some abstract notion of a Sith Empire ruling forever. For what? At that point, he is just an old psychopath barely kept alive as a clone, rapidly burning through the clone body because it can't handle the scale of FUUUCK involved in the magnitude of his dark side power. The Sith have no end game. They are just narcissistic lunatics with a desperate desire to gain power at any cost, but are so lost in that game that they become institutionalised to it. As annoyingly dumb and basic-bitch as the Jedi can be sometimes, the Sith themselves are just a bunch of edgy bois acting like they have this grand plan all laid out, when really it just boils down to short term power and endlessly betraying each other. Their approach to galactic geopolitics is far too unstable. Palpatine in the sequels literally goes as far as painting a big neon 'come get me X marks the spot' sign on his needlessly spoppy hidden lair on Exegol, and then is annihilated accordingly. Sure, the sequels are the writing equivalent of aids in a van in a dumpster/crater fire, but still. It is still Disney upheld canon. That madness still happened. In which case, what do we think about Palpatine's ideas regarding the future of the Sith? What, convert Rey and let her do it all over again? _Great_ :/ This is why for all their talk of revenge and power, the Sith are completely pathetic. They are just raging psychos and killers and even taking their intelligence and complexity of interactions to the Machiavellian heights of someone as sneaky and clever as Palpatine, he is still, ultimately just a raging psycho-fiend when you peel off that mask. There is no deeper aspect to that power. It's power and control for power and control's sake. Tyranny, despotism.
P.S - Palpatine's rule is just a petty, planetary warlord's expanded and given better graphics over a galaxy. It's just a bigger version of that. When you boil down what he is really doing and all about, it's just that on a bigger scale. There is nothing impressive about it, in itself. The rule I mean. What is far more impressive, is obviously _how_ he managed to pull it off. As interesting and clever as Palpatine is, Sith ideology itself is boring. It goes through the motions of acting subversive and clever compared to Jedi dogma, but at the same time, achieves nothing long-term. Civilisationally, it's bankrupt. Just look at Dromund Kaas or Zakuul, or Korriban (Morabund) for that matter. What jokers these guys are. Nihilistic jokers - even the clever ones, like creamy Sheev.
the council jedi are still blind fools in my opinion. they still didnt question an army being ordered before the war needed it... a decade before the war needed it, an army that broke a ton of taboos and was ordered by a jedi who was close friends with count dooku and was removed from the jedi council for wanting to build an army. the jedi fully integrated their order with the republic, you know, instead of having a branch of the jedi (say the knights) serve in the republic peacekeeping forces for a period as part of their training, or service, so the jedi order itself stays independent of the republic, and can respond to sith threats outside of republic jurisdiction. when count dooku revealed himself to be a sith why didnt the extra cautious jedi investigate people he had contact with to see who turned him over to the dark side, or who he may have drawn into the sith himself? when the jedi received an army of clones and were told they had alterations made to them, no jedi from the medical corps or otherwise wanted to look into the changes that were made. did the clones have night vision, electro-magnetic detecting senses? nobody knew because not a single jedi looked over the manufacturing instructions, so not a single jedi knew about the control chip. seems a little strange the jedi would be so cautious about sith returning, then willingly send jedi into the same situation that made revan into a sith lord instead of sending jedi as ambassadors to CIS worlds as a peacekeeping force but to also act as a wide net to catch dooku and his apprentice/master. sure the trap was perfectly set, but it was set for the perfect idiot to walk into it
I kinda get the Jedi would lead the fight against Sith uprisings, but wouldn’t the New Republic military establishment get really frustrated with this incursion into their turf? I would think the Jedi just ‘taking over’ the military would create a whole lot of tension and resentment.
To be honest the rule of two was created to completely change the sith so that the next time The Jedi and Sith would clash it would already be to late for the Jedi
I think even if the Jedi had been independent of the Republic they would be caught between a rock and a hard place. Don't go to war maybe you save the order but the order will be percieved by the public and the senate as traitors; if the order does go to war there is a good chance the public will continue to support the order and the order gains allies in the senate they chose the least bad option.
Palpatine set the perfect trap. If the Jedi Council refused to allow the order to join the war then there would've been a schism in the order between those who wanted to fight and those who didn't. This would've effectual divided the order and not to mention the public opinion of the Jedi would've been in the dumps.
wrong - Obi Wan did not believe Dooku when he told him that the Galactic Senate was under the Sith control. wrong - if the Jedi didn't adapt the Grand Army they have no chance against CIS. wrong - they did not know they walk into a trap. hint, hint from Windu. "I sense a plot against the Jedi". yeah, i sense a plot and you are a master. no wonder you're dead. wrong - Jedi are peacekeepers and they have been fighting in endless battles for millennia.
The Jedi order had it coming unfortunately. They stopped following the will of the force in favor of the will of the senate ages ago. It wasn’t until after being destroyed did yoda and obi-wan adopt a new style of teaching. Luke being the result. If you listen carefully to almost everything yoda tells Luke it flies in the face of the Jedi order we see in the prequels. Brilliant really.
![[UA] NAVI vs MOUZ | BO5 | IEM Rio 2024](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/CMBYk0cbGoA/mqdefault.jpg)
I imagine palps face on Mac from its always sunny "I'm playing both sides that way I always come out on top"
Oh my god YEEESSSS😂😂
...but you just told me you're playing both sides
HEAVY: This is the best thing
@@Mr.PepeSilvia I like to think pepe Silvia is Charlie's dyslexia messing up the word Pennsylvania hence why he's got boxes full of pepe
@@kingjellybean9795 lol I'm a fan of that theory as well
One good quote about the situation I heard was "The Mandalorian Wars is what happens when the Jedi don't get involved with a war [manipulated by the Sith], the Clone Wars is what happened when they do."
Damned if they do, damned if they don’t.
Spawned from the Mandalorian Wars, the Jedi Civil War and the Revan taking power. Then, from the Clone Wars, the destruction of the Order.
Where is that quote from?
Yeah. Jedi honestly should just do their regular thing even during war, which in negotiation, peacekeeping and complex missions which which would usually require agents/spies/special forces. And obviously trying to find the sith.
The Jedi were always expected to either fight in the war or sit it out, but this was the first war that happen within ten thousand years of peace and no doubt that the populace of the Galaxy were hoping for the Jedi to end the war as quickly as possible to bring back normalcy. In truth the Jedi would have been part of the war even if the Sith were not a part of it because of the political fallout of these thousand years of peace would have ended.
They are the keepers of the peace after all
10,000? Don’t u mean 1,000? Those are hugely different timescales, at least for humans.
@@geetslys Ah yes, the aggressive negotiations
There is even more at play here which makes the fall of the Jedi Order and the Republic, even more tragic in several ways. The Jedi Order, as you point out, had become more closely bound and intertwined to the very ideals and survival of the Republic itself - from earlier beginnings of a more detached and informal relationship, where the religious order had initially been more distinct.
By the time of the Skywalker Saga, without doubt, the Jedi Order has become something of a custodian force adding an extra layer of credibility and strength to the Republic. In many ways, this came at the expense of the Jedi Order itself. The Supreme Chancellor Finis Valorum had the Jedi at his service, and they were happy to oblige, settling disputes and making diplomatic missions.
What often gets overlooked here however, is the _sheer scale_ of that mission; the Jedi were sent out, often alone or in pairs (of Master and apprentice) and more rarely as part of larger strike teams or enforcement groups. Not merely a judicial force or elite form of that, the Jedi were still multi-faceted in their aims and internally driven, High Council-made decisions.
Yet for all that, in some ways, to compare them to a religious branch of the judicial forces of the Republic, isn’t too far wrong. They were special, and different from the other judicial forces, though they were still beholden to the Republic from the top down. This relationship had taken many centuries to form.
Even at it’s height in this era (not that it was necessarily the numerical height of the Jedi Order in totality, across over 25,000 years of galactic history, mind you), during the prequels, the Jedi Order counted on little over ~10,000-11,000 Jedi galaxy wide, from a population of at least several hundred quadrillion or so sentient beings in said galaxy. A tiny, tiny number to help police, patrol and mediate between entire worlds, star systems and sectors. In the Outer Rim, Jedi often travelled though the Republic grasp on so many star systems there, ebbed and flowed (mostly ebbing away; for other places, there had never been any Republic presence at all)
The loss of a single Jedi Knight before his or her time was and should be remembered to be seen, as a serious loss for the Jedi Order and Republic. It could make the difference between a peaceful, negotiated settlement on a backwater world, and that world alternatively backsliding into turmoil. The Jedi couldn’t always do right by themselves or the Republic, and it is not to say they were perfect or flawless. Of course, they were not.
However, very regularly, a Jedi delegation or mission to a planet, could save so much grief for both the people of that world, and the planet. In spite of how, during the Clone Wars, the Jedi became increasingly painted as warmongers and vilified as mad crusaders (this image, made all the worse post-Order 66, when Palpatine accused them all of being traitors to the Republic, trying to seize power illegally, for their own cult based purposes), the fact remains; the Jedi were still, by and large, especially prior to the Clone Wars, seen with immense respect and often deference. Kings, warlords and industrialists knew better than to cross the Jedi, from one corner of the galaxy to the next.
Worlds as disparate as Kashyyyk, Rugosa, Mon Calamari, Naboo, Ansion, Dantooine and Raxus Secundus, had some idea of how important and influential the Jedi could be. They had, for millennia untold, interwoven their story into the fabric of the galaxy, and it still shone bright in the time of the waning days of the Galactic Republic. As corrupt and decadent as the Republic had become, as complacent and smug perhaps as the Jedi Order itself had strayed into being, the Jedi Knights were still largely perceived with a degree of awe. From a purely numerical perspective alone, it’s likely the vast majority of the people of the galaxy never even saw one.
Many would have heard of Jedi, or seen holograms of them in action, or heard perhaps of a local tyrant, bounty hunter or thug being simply taken down by one of these Jedi. Yet still, vast numbers of the people of the Republic and especially those beyond it’s borders, would not necessarily have even seen one for real. Making this all the more apparent, is the fact that often, Jedi kept a low profile when going about their ‘Jedi business’ or otherwise moved swiftly in and out of star systems pursuing specific goals.
For instance, Obi-Wan Kenobi’s investigations into Jango Fett had led him Kamino, at that time an uncharted planet (because Dooku had removed it from the Jedi Archives himself, not that anyone realised) Now, in spite of him finding Kamino, and even making contact with Jango Fett (to the point that ‘contact’ became violent), the revelation of the Clone Army itself didn’t dissuade Kenobi from following his mandated mission to follow Jango Fett. It wasn’t as though he spent much time on Kamino for the time being, having been given a tour of the cloning facilities of Tipoca City and having spoken with the Kaminoan scientists and their Prime Minister. My point though, is that most Kaminoans would not have seen him. This, as a typical example. Jedi were busy and...always on the move. There were so few Jedi galaxy wide, that the Republic leant hard on them to help broker negotiations.
What is extremely tragic about the corruption of the Jedi Order in it’s servitude to the ailing Republic, is that it all began out of honourable intention. Back in the days of the High Republic, there had been great hopes for the future, and the Jedi Order had apparently seen off the Sith and integrated their mighty Order with the Republic in a closer way than ever before. Superficially, it’d look like wisdom.
In real-world political philosophy, we’d call this a union of Church and State. Now, to our sensibilities, this would be abhorrent in the 21st century now, as the overreach of the Church within a secular society would not be deemed positively by vast swathes of the population, even if a smaller group vociferously wanted it to be the case. In Western style democracies, although political corruption is common and oligarchical power structures are rife, globally, most people wouldn’t want theocracy to return.
I’m not accusing the Jedi Order of being akin to the Papacy in Medieval Christendom or something, not so directly. I’m merely pointing out that it wouldn’t take much to prod the likes of the Jedi Order into going down that path, if things went badly wrong. Obviously it’s an imperfect comparison. George Lucas always made the Jedi to be a strange but fascinating mix of the Samurai of Japan and the Crusader Knights of Western Europe. There is a dash of the Samurai in Kenobi, as much as there is a dash of the English Knight.
In Star Wars, the Jedi Order spent so long bound to the State (to use real-world political language) so to speak, that they had become _institutionalised_ to it. I firmly believe that Jedi like Mace Windu had become _so in love with the very image and idealism_ of the Republic, that ironically they could not themselves see the irony of calling Dooku a political idealist, when they themselves were latched obsessively to the ideal of the Republic itself. Yoda meanwhile was the false prophet, preaching wisdom while losing everything; complacent, dogmatic, patronising, ideologically entrenched and philosophically overbearing. Even he knew.
Windu, perhaps even more than Yoda, was so duty and honour bound to protecting the ideal of the Republic he cherished so dearly, he ultimately went as far as trying to strike Palpatine down. He could not handle the feeling of immense betrayal that Palpatine was a Sith Lord the entire time - even with Anakin’s warning.
Even though, Palpatine himself clearly let Anakin know, to go and tell him. Such was Windu’s turmoil, that he could not think clearly. Striking out, Windu struggled with the cognitive dissonance of his predicament. His world/galaxy-view was on fire. The only thing that made sense to him now was killing Palpatine. Windu’s attachment to the Republic was his doom. Dooku, tragically, wanted to find a way to fix the Jedi Order. He saw no hope for the corruption addled Republic.
Unfortunately, that is where and when Palpatine stepped in, seeing his opportunity. He ruined everything. Dooku's Separatist idealism, engulfed into the machinations of the Sith. Dooku alone is an immensely tragic character. By all rights,the better side of Dooku's earlier political work as a political firebrand, was entirely reasonable - and the non-corrupt sections of the early Separatists were righteous in their secessionism.
The Republic _did_ abuse them, take them for granted and shove it's narrative of greed and unpunished corporate corruption down their throats. They genuinely _did_ have a noble cause. Then the greedy industrialists took over the proceedings, even as Dooku himself became a Sith Lord; immediately negating any true loyalties he had to the Separatists - they were only ever pawns now, and pawns he would betray.
The Clone Wars, a farcical puppet show controlled by Palpatine; a Punch and Judy Show writ large, simultaneously destroying scores of Jedi and weakening their order. Controlled opposition, slamming into each other for only as long as Palpatine needed, as a catalyst for the Rise of the Empire. The Jedi never stood a chance. They were blind while thinking themselves wise.
I think StarWarsReadingClub put it best in saying that the Jedi Order fell because they bent to the will of the Republic, not the will of the Force. Mace Windu, often thought of as a premier Jedi, had actually failed the Order's own litmus test by forming an emotional attachment to the Republic. It was his "love" for the Republic that lead to his death and subsequently Order 66. The Republic Jedi Order was fundamentally flawed, with Yoda, Vader, Sidious, and Obi-won all coming to the conclusion seperately that the Order had to fall.
Something I never (but just) thought about:
The Sith defeated the Jedi by making them believe they no longer existed.
The Jedi returned and defeated those Sith by making THEM believe THEY no longer existed (Obi-Wan and Yoda in hiding, to train Luke in secret to bring them down).
Aside from the obvious poetry, it’s also like karma
Lucas liked to have his new work “rhyme” with his old work.
If you're opponent won't play by your rules anymore then it's time to play by theirs.
But that’s not true though because palp survived and was actually in hiding while the Jedi bothered to make a come back since Luke failed terribly
Palpatine: I am AGAINST believing the Jedi Order to be the ones to have started and waged war across the galaxy!
Also Palpatine: *(Secretly) gives them the GA* alright you kids have fun committing war crimes
Yeah, they kinda Pearl Harbor'd a sovereign independent state after infiltrating military installations and killing a bunch of workers...
@@user-ft3jq5vi2l Except they....weren't a sovereign state....? The CIS wasn't even technically official yet, do far as I'm aware. Nor does it matter anyhow, because it was all illegal and illegitimate anyhow.
@@papapalps2415 the CIS declared its own independence 2 years before the events of AotC, it was just not recognised. And what the republic thinks is pretty irrelevant, after countries like the USA or Mexico declared independence their former colonial overlords still fought them for years before recognising them, even when they were perfectly functioning separate countries. Heck, why do I go with an example from 200 years ago, just look at China and Taiwan in the present!
@@papapalps2415 also, who decides what is illegal or illegitimate anyhow? The republic? If we perpetually stuck to what was originally "legal" or "legitimate", we would still be ruled by the right of lake ladies distributing swords.
@@user-ft3jq5vi2l Agreed! I mean, if I went around sayin' I was an emperor just because some moistened bint had lobbed a scimitar at me they'd put me away!
A question I asked myself for quite some time now: Why did the Seperatist Parliament approve the creation of the Seperatist Council and the Droid Army?
The Seperatist movement started out as a liberation movement against the exploitation and oppression of the Rim by the Galactic Core (the later of which completely dominated the institutions of the Republic on all levels). They stressed the massive influence core-based corporations had on the Republic through both corruption and outright representation in the Senate. And they stressed the brutal exploitation of Rim worlds by said core-based corporations. Heck, according to the Canon book "Star Wars Propaganda: A History of Persuasive Art in the Galaxy" the watershed event that lead to creation of the Seperatist movement and the rebellion of large parts of the Rim after centuries of unrest and anti-republic sentiment, actually was the fact that Trade Federation Viceroy Nute Gunray managed to evade legal persecution via corruption following the battle of Naboo, a turn of events that made it very clear how utterly corrupt the Republic actually was.
Why on earth would such a movement give the very core-based corporations it seeked to free the Rim from control over it's military? To make a historical analogy here, it literally was as if the FNL had given control over it's Armed Forces to Renault, Michelin and Total during the Algerian War.
One word, desperation. The Sith had manipulated the Separatists into believing the Republic would inevitably violently crush and subjugate them, and since on their own they did not have the military/resources to stand against the Republic they needed the military power offered by the Corporate powers. It was seen as a lesser of two evils you see. They also falsely hoped they could rein in the Corporate powers after they had won their freedom from the Republic.
@@Jester0879 And Geonosiss and Clone army there only confirm their fears
@@Jester0879 To further add to it, there were harsh sanctions and restrictions imposed on the Separatists, such as they were not allowed to have turbo lasers on their ships, and they couldn't have a standing army, yet the republic was doing little to nothing to stop the pirate raids on the Separatist trade vessels. On top of the taxes that were imposed on them. It was easy to manipulate the Separatists.
Golly gee fucking gosh, its almost like as if the CIS weren't poor, poor innocent abused puppies, but as we see in....hm, around every single individual piece of media in the ENTIRE FUCKING FRANCHISE, they were a group alliance between numerous different cold blooded, abjectly evil corporations, with a distant window dressing of democracy and blah blah blah that we see in a handful of episodes in a TV show that has dozens.
Stop.
Fucking.
Nitpicking.
TCW.
Both the show itself and the actual movies are very quite fucking clear who actually runs the CIS, and it sure as shit isn't Schrodingers wunderkin abused puppy dogs that you seem to be trying to pretend exist in any meaningful manner.
Nah they just heard that the GAR had free cookies and couldn’t resist.
Makes sense
I heard that the GAR had death sticks and that's why Yoda and Obi-Wan couldn't resist
While a thousand years of life enabled Yoda to keep the Jedi on course reliably, it also brought a lack of flexibility and undetected self-righteousness. If for eight hundred years Yoda was the most credible authority on the Jedi ways I can't blame him entirely. Who I can blame is the other Jedi who should have been able to notice and make him aware... ah, but peace-time only challenged their ability to police, not their teachings.
Tough men make soft times, soft times make soft men, soft men create tough times, tough times create tough men. And it goes on and on and on. Peace, war, two sides of the same coin
Qui-Gon was one of the few left who bent the rules and realized the direction the Order was going, and we all know how the Council felt and treated him because of Phantom Menace.
@@airplanemaster1 but they still offered him a seat due to his diverse thinking.
@@UltraSteelix facts and truth
@@UltraSteelix Time isn’t a line, it’s a wheel.
To be more fair to the Jedi, the Separatist tactics were just lesser versions of what the Sith did, Sith Empires keep forming on the outer reaches of the galaxy, the First Order being an example of this, and wouldn’t it make more sense to not call your Sith Empire a “Sith Empire”? Like with the Republic, wouldn’t it make more sense to look like a democracy before the truth comes out? Speaking of which, can you do a video on what would happen if Dooku decided to be a traditional Sith and utilize the CIS to its fullest extent. Everyone on the topic says that if Dooku won the Clone Wars for the CIS, he would either be a benevolent leader that would lead the Separatists to be a better democracy than the Republic or he would just turn the CIS into a de-facto Sith Empire.
If you saw a video Geetlys made about his beliefs: Dooku was despite all his talk at his core a fascist, despite preaching high about democracy. He despised having "lesser beings" (as he saw them) get their wishes listened to, or have to be kissed up to, and believed in an enlightened dictator forcing the Galaxy/Senate to their whim as the only way forward - One with humans at the helm, of course. So if Dooku decided to betray Palpatine and somehow pulled out a win - You would probably be looking at a de-facto Sith Empire/dictatorship. One where strength was what ruled, and where democracy would be burned to dust as a "worthless system" that catered too much to "inferiors/weaklings." Despite his talk and whatever original beliefs during his Jedi years - Dooku's galaxy wouldn't be a very pleasant place. A benevolent dictator a Sith lord does not make for, and despite Palpatine seeing Dooku as more a Dark Jedi than Sith...Dooku wouldn't be very benevolent if in power.
@@videocrowsnest5251 I agree completely. I mean, Dooku knew since the beginning that Palpatine's plan was to create a Galactic Empire, and he was completely on-board. Actually, how he thought the Empire would be was closer to the older Sith empires, with him and Palpatine at the helm, and Anakin commanding an army of Dark Jedi.
I think that, sure, Dooku _did_ believe that the Republic was filled with corruption when he was younger, but ultimately, he hijacked the separatist movement in order to fool the Jedi, but he was fooled as well. He _was_ a Jedi too, after all.
@@videocrowsnest5251 WTF I love Dooku even more now
Because the Jedi heard there was an opportunity for false flag surrenders
And an opportunity for war crimes 🥰🤩
@@geetslys Kenobi: Yavin code
Skywalker: So anyway, I start slashing
Dude you put out such well made, interesting, researched vids so rapidly, it’s amazing. Thank you so much, I always look forward for your videos ❤️
Dooku: the senate is under sith control
The Jedi: cap
I love rewatching vids of yours. It really clears things up that I might've forgotten. Great vid!!
Palpatine had the jedi wrapped around his finger so tight its a wonder it didn't cut off circulation. And frankly the jedi order deserved to fall. It was a puritanical, rigid structure so bogged down in tradition they couldn't see a sith lord literally standing right in front of them. They didn't just lose after order 66, it was the moment the clone wars began, maybe even earlier.
That's why Luke was so important, why his restoration of the Jedi was much bigger than simply reviving a dead religion. I consider Luke's first true act as grand master of the new order being saving his father, because he did so through love, through his attachment to him. In that moment he dismantled what little was left of the old, archaic way of thinking, the same way of doing things that pushed Anakin into becoming Vader, and proved that those attachments, those feelings, were a source of strength. Yet unlike the sith his feelings were entirely selfless, his attachment lead him to be willing to sacrifice himself if it meant saving someone else, as opposed to Anakin who was manipulated into sacrificing others for the sake of those attachments.
I've been getting my notifications much better lately and catching Geetsly's quick.
Peace is a lie, there is only passion. Through passion, I gain strength. Through strength, I gain power. Through power, I gain victory.
Yes, I would like more videos about the similarities and differences of the sith wars.
"when lEmons, life gives you. throw the lemons into galactic warfare, you must" -some green gremlin probably.
I know this is a bit off topic, but when you briefly mentioned the 10 years from when the Sith first announced themselves, right through to the Battle of Genosis, I feel that time-span would make for a good animated series. Seeing Dooku's decent into the Dark Side, and just all the incremental schemes Palpatine was hatching, maybe a few more baddass episodes with Cad Bane ;)
Agreed. Even just a dooku series during that time
Adventures of Qui Gon and Obi Wan, adventures of Obi Wan and Anakin, adventures of Luke, adventures of the true next generation would all make great animated series.
2:12: The Star Wars reason as to why I dislike overlong peace and stability, despite its initial benefits: this will lead to stagnation, overdosed complacency, pamperedness, and some bits of boredom.
If you change a lot of the terms here with real life comparisons, it gets all the more relevant and downright unsettling *at best.*
See Jedi? Peace is indeed a lie. It may be good for a time but it causes stagnation. Challenges to test yourself lessens.
Is there a real life solution that doesn’t rely on deceiving ourselves into categorizing manslaughter as acceptably legitimate professions? There has to be a better way to challenge ourselves without generational wars of extinction.
@@dar-nakkallig I find it ironic that there is allegedly nothing left to challenge oneself with as a Jedi in a galaxy spanning republic even in peace time - but that might not have been the case if they were actually serving the force and not the senate- they didn’t have this problem Until they became the republic’s free police force … it just meant slow to act jedi reinforcements after billions had died first…
aaah 24:02 a perfect time to watch some star wars shit 💪
1:16 they probably would have seen this as deliberate misdirection on count Dooku’s part.
Never thought of it that way. Very nice.
I rewatched the prequels and I can't see them the same after realizing that Palpatine looks like Collin from whose line is it anyway
Finally a star wars video thats not boring❤️❤️🥰
None of the Star Wars videos that have been made are boring.
Damn the Jedi just hyper jumped right into palpetines hands
Uhh, "For the Republic!"?
“Good soldiers follow orders”
Roger Roger
Order 66 and the Galactic Empire were the final notes in the swan song of the Sith Order.
In the past there were many Sith Lords that were fighting for control and for be the greatest of all, in the clone wars there was only one real sith, the others were pawns that will never be a threat
Hindsight is of course my power here, but: Provided the Jedi figured out the war was bait, they would have had two choices (at the very least) ahead of them: Take the bait and hope to survive, OR don't take it, and get labeled as traitors. The funny thing is the second option probably would have in essence been more useful for the Jedi order. If they knew this was the outcome, and did not have an attachment to the Republic - they could have evacuated their order off Coruscant discreetly and set up shop somewhere else remotely. While they would have in the short-term lost face, and been considered traitors, this would have given them an opportunity to study the Clone Wars with more forces left standing. Of course, I bet Palpatine and Dooku would have still kept up their little war game (Which was really just Palpatine Vs palpatine the whole time), with the goal shifting from luring the Jedi into still trying to do good from the sidelines/destroying them with both Republic and CIS arsenals turned against them.
All in all - While the path taken (march into the trap) did turn out well in the end after a heck of a long time with lots of pieces falling into play..I cannot help but wonder what the path not chosen (don't walk into the trap and get labeled as traitors) would have held. The Jedi order would have surely not gotten out of that one very easily either, but if they were quick to see the way the wind was blowing and fled Coruscant fast they would have been able to avoid having most of their numbers thinned out, as well as still have the powerhouses in the Jedi High Council being at full power (as full power as they could be during those days anyways) with no war weariness and force bond damage sustained. This would have potentially allowed the Jedi to make plans for their return, and as an added bonus they would have also gotten to have Palpatine to reveal his hand a lot earlier than he did - Thus the identity of Darth Sidious would become far more evident. So yea...coulda worked out as well if the chips fell into the right order. The key flaw in my speculation is of course the Jedi order would have to ditch their morals a bit here, and in essence pull a pretty selfish move with trying to preserve themselves rather than the Galaxy as a whole..which sounds suspiciously darksider like.
This is better than I thought! This makes me cannot help but admire Palpatine even more despite how nasty he is!
P.S: I thought the Jedi were only fighting in this war for the sake of taking newborn babies who are Force-sensitive to be recruited into their ranks.
@Geetsly I’d love to see an episode on the meanings behind the emblems of each Star Wars faction if you haven’t made one yet.
@Geetsly's A video I'd like to see would be on the spread of military hardware to civilians after the Clone Wars. Something I had been curious about since "The Bad Batch" showed Geonosian speeder bikes used by the Pantoran police and the Martez sisters owning at least one GAR-issue DC-17 blaster pistol.
More Sith Wars please!
Damn very informative. Crazy how the Jedi and Sith went back and forth
It's not a "lack of perspective." It's a matter of not accepting bullshit reasons for producer fuck ups.
Was Phase I clone armour stronger than Phase II? Fives is killed by a blaster bolt to his presumably Phase II chestplate, while Rex is hit with one in Star Wars Rebels, lives, and says Phase I is great. So, was it stronger? It seems they're equally useless at stopping blaster bolts in The Clone Wars, so is there another factor at play? Rex's modifications? The age of the droids and their weaponry? Or was Rex's armour just powered by plot?
Phase II is stronger.
There are lots of factors that go into it. I didn’t watch Rebels, so I can’t say much on Rex’s account. The three things to consider is weaponry, where you’re hit, and popularity/plot armor. Commander Fox is actually worth his shit, so he not only hit Fives, he got him through the heart by a DC-17, a *heavy* blaster pistol. Those types of weapons are known for having about as much power as a blaster rifle. That right there is pretty much death on the spot.
I don’t know where Rex was hit or hit by, but Rex truly is a fan favorite. If they actually killed him, there would be a lot of pushback by fans. So, they’d never do it. Though, consider where he got hit and what he got hit by.
It was better but was uncomfortable..
Great video !
So the Sith Fucked them all Basically? Remind me to teach my Own Jedi Students About this for real I wanna avoid these plethora of Mistakes made by my Predecessors
All of this makes palpatines plan EVEN more intelligent, the jedi literally had almost no chance to do anything about the war and were forced to play palpies game
Hi geetsly.. you asked for suggestions of vids. How about a look into the army. Who made up the army? Why were the conscripts so loyal to the empire? Which versions of the army were clones and which were enlistees.
I’m impressed how obvious u made the answer seem lol. I actually never put any thought into it to question the plot, but that all definitely made way more sense than I realize the whole thing WOULD have made to me, had I sat down and considered it. I mean, it’s pretty clear they didn’t have a choice, or at least if they wanted to keep their current high standing in the galaxy, and not be at least ostracized, but I hate to say, I probably wouldn’t have seen their point of view clearly, like u laid it out!
I keep binging your videos. thank you
Somebody shouted "OIL!" -And the war was inevitable.
what if the republic never got rid of its navy and army of the old republic but insted down sized so they could aford to maintain it and so pirates woundnt be a threat and criminal orgnizations like the pikes and blake sun cant rule there own worlds
but insted of the jedi puting there whole order at risk in military service only a few jedi would serve in the millitary of the republic like rahm kota and mace windu or the one with knowlege of war fare and stratigy
My thoughts exactly.
@@codyyancey1367 this could have been a nice plot point for an actually decent sequel trilogy. Not to say it’s an obvious plot point but it’s totally a good one
@@watch50er was talking about the republic during the battle of nabbo clone wars era
@@codyyancey1367 would still make a good plot point before or after the OT
I always love to think about the genius of the clone wars.
Hey, Geetsly's,
I love your content. I really do. It's high quality, well structured, and covers very interesting topics. However, this left me wondering why you get so little views.
At first, I wondered if you might be recycling your content like some other channels, but after looking for myself, I really don't think you do that.
This, of course, left me with an unanswered question that frankly baffled me. And after looking at your content, I think I might have a few suggestions for you.
1. Treat your video titles more like gossip. Take this one for example: The ulterior motive behind the Jedi's involvement in the Clone Wars.
While my title is a bit wordy, it's far more interesting (in my opinion) than yours: The dark truth behind why the Jedi actually fought in the Clone Wars.
Get what I mean? :)
2. Try condensing your content a little. You often take a long time to build up to your main talking point, and if you do want to keep that all in, maybe consider putting that main point first, before the title card.
It should tighten things up, and makes things feel shorter.
3. Consider making shorts. UA-cam shorts tend to get very high views for how short they are, and I feel like they would work pretty well.
When making them, you could shorten the content you normally make. Including just your main talking point(s), and maybe a retelling of the hook (title).
These are just some things I noticed, a some opinions that I have. You don't need to listen to them, and I'm not offering them up from a position of experience. I simply want to see you succeed and grow more than you already have.
Good luck, and keep up the great work! :D
Kreia dosagrees with you lol
So Yoda knew about the rule of two and no one stopped to consider that the sith had changed in other ways as well?
Foood is ready and i new vid. Im happy😁
What about the connections with the banking clan under plagueis?
Makes so much sense now
Awesome discussion and analysis. My favourite so far. Yes to more clone war based.
This video is rock solid , undeniable proof the jedi destroyed themselves .
The Sith did them a favor .
Very early today but keep the content coming
I know this will probably unpopular but although i love the content I can’t help but roll my eyes everytime i read “Dark Truth” in a video title
I think the only thing here to say is that the war you plan for isn't always the war you find yourself in
The Jedi literally plotted to give Palpatine the power to start the clone wars, and they used Jar-Jar of all people to do so. They were so easily manipulated it would make a hilarious comedy special if it weren’t so tragic
"They had their orders from the Senate."
They would have loved you at Nuremburg. 😁
The CIS simply wanted independence
Viewing them as a new empire is just blind hatred
Unspoken not public perception of them being a sith puppet state. This plays again into the jedi’s arrogant inflexibility by jumping to the simplistic conclusion of Dooku is sith lord and head of the sep parliament = sith puppet empire because sith = deceitful and bent on domination
Pathetically naive more than blind hatred … as well as being unable to say no because the Jedi can’t Fight off the republic
@@watch50er It was a Sith Puppet Empire. Canonically.
@@Mourtzouphlos240 Yeah, silly of me to miss that … and the republic was too…. Ugh. I don’t know what I was thinking to miss it’s all a sith empire puppet state to ultimately target the Jedi… more accurate to say the Jedi couldn’t criticize or oppose the republic to notice the changes much less do anything about it until they had a confirmed Sith Lord to attack …. And by then it would be too late to change the republic back and taking out sidious would dis honor the Jedi into being fugitives …
Did the Ruusan reformation chain the Jedi to the Senate Judiciary? Were the Jedi in need of legitimacy after piloting the Republic through the new Sith wars, considering unpopular actions like taking force sensitive children?
I’m not certain but in effect that sounds accurate, it was all about a rebirth of the republic and peace where the desperate lesser evils of militarism and armies could finally (in theory) be buried, generals could now retire to be police, and the people could participate again in their own governments instead of war time survival constrictions.
How come you didn't mention the Jedi civil war or the great galactic war?
ANAKIN WAS SUPPOSED TO BE IN THE MEDITATION ROOM WITH A JEDI MASTER MEDIATING NOT IN THE THRONE ROOM BEING STUCK WITH HIS THOUGHTS
Well in darth plaguies you actually see the scheming with the senators. Even plaguies puts on gatherings in mockery of the republic. And senators go to this and have fun with hunting stuff. This overall is showing you the darkside of the people in charge. Jedi did try to get to the moon with no success.
Makes sense
th e second they became a memeber of the republic militia was the day the jedi died, every day after lead to their down fall, as a seperate organization they were strong as a republic pawn they became weak and deserved what they got...
In other words a good trap just needs the right bait.
No matter how ya slice it, the Jedi FAILED. Utterly and completely. Yoda himself is, perhaps, the most at fault. 800 years as a Jedi and yet he could not detect a Sith Lord who was standing a meter in front of him. And yes, you are correct. The Jedi were ready to fight the last war - much like the French before WW2.
There's a saying, "Every great cause begins as a movement, becomes a business and deteriorates into a racket." The Jedi were in the Racket Stage. They had become a rigid, narrow, puritanical sect - devoid of imagination, inspiration or originality. Jedi fanaticism was much worse than the Sith's - they refused to consider that they might be wrong. "The Jedi Code!" became a voluntarily dawned straight jacket.
The Jedi Order deserved to be destroyed. Of course, that doesn't mean the Jedi should have been slaughtered, only that the Order had outlived its usefulness and had become a mortal threat to not itself but the Republic. In their blindness, the Jedi became the perfect tools for Plagueis and Sidious to use to create their Empire.
The real reason was because Yoda owed Nute Gunray millions and millions of credits from gambling debt.
He orchistrated the war so he wouldn't have to settle and declare bankruptcy.
Personally, I think the sith are overrated. They did eventually defeat the jedi order, yes... but it took a millennium of following the rule of two to achieve that, and within a single generation their empire had collapsed and the jedi returned.
In order to have a few decades of absolute power, they gave the Republic ten centuries of (relative) peace.
So to my mind, the rule of two was a massive waste of time. I also don't think it's a coincidence that the sith who finally defeated the jedi (albiet temporarily) was the one who was willing to break that rule.
The rule of two was also idiotically risky. They didn't even had good chances that it would work.
A plan becomes always more difficult the more time and variables are at play. So you need to be able to survive even critical failure, which the Sith in this time were not. It worked because the OT was made before the Sequels, not more not less.
In the grand scheme of things, it actually shows the magnitude of the defeat of the Sith a thousand years prior, because _this_ was their resort (Darth Bane's crazy, long term vision for the Sith) It definitely created results, but I would agree with your interpretation that, by and large, that took way too long and to be honest, didn't have staying power. Even the full regalia, pomp and material means of the Galactic Empire at it's height could not ensure Palpatine's grasp on power.
If anything, he'd enfeebled his legions so much through Tarkin's Doctrine, that they looked pathetic compared to the elite Clone Legions. But that is a more technical matter. Philosophically, the Sith relying on a thousand year master plan was in itself, something we can perceive as shrewd though ultimately indicative of the desperation they faced. I suppose they didn't care how long they were in charge as long as they ultimately got what they wanted.
Yet therein, precisely, lies the absolute madness of Sith ideology; it is erratic and once the Sith gain power, they are immediately going to find some whacky way to lose said power, out of either their own arrogance or in-fighting (or both) Remember, it was a redeemed Anakin (Vader) whom saved Luke his son from Palpatine torturing him. Palpatine was so insane by that point that he legit thought he could stand right next to Anakin (even if he did just see him as Vader at that point still) and torture his own flesh and blood to death with Force Lightning.
It was absolutely a power play. Palpatine was vocally egging Luke on to kill Vader/Anakin, and obviously Vader/Anakin knew he was expendable the moment Luke was discovered to be whom he was (and in further media, this has been elaborated on even more, this toxic relationship between Palpatine and Vader, as Palpatine very obviously was _disappointed_ in weakened, post-Mustafar Vader, and constantly 'messed with him' ever since)
Ironically it begs the question, did Palpatine actually embrace the possibility that Vader would eventually kill him? Palpatine legit even brags to Yoda in ROTS/Episode III that, "Darth Vader will become more powerful than either of us!", to Yoda. Now, if you just step back for a moment and think about what Palpatine just said to Yoda, that really begins to make one think. It has all kinds of implications about Palpatine.
What was he intending to do if Vader _did_ become drastically stronger than even he? Palpatine was a monster of the dark side, but a fully-trained and realised (non-mutilated) Chosen One, would have gone beyond anything the galaxy had ever seen (and I'm not interested in all that Abeloth rubbish etc 12 times stronger than peak Luke? WTF Star Wars Legends, just WTF lol)
I like to think that the only thing Palpatine would tolerate dying for, on any level, was the *Sith Order itself* which adds a lot to his character. If he is outright _gloating_ not just admitting Vader will surpass himself, even as he goes toe to toe with Yoda with a literal power advantage (Sidious was a bit stronger than Yoda) this does basically beg the question: does he think he's gonna die? How does he even feel about that? Is he just talking a big game to Yoda? Or does he really think that eventually Vader will be the 'ultimate Sith' and that if he himself (Palpatine) has to die to achieve it, then so be it? It does make one wonder. At that level, Vader would be practically immortal. A god among men in the SW galaxy; not merely a Galactic Emperor.
Tempted by this, I believe Palpatine risked everything including his own life (when confronted by Windu) to 'tempt' and 'lure' Anakin to a) implicate him in Jedi murder and b) force his hand to serve him at last. The bittersweet irony of Kenobi's greatly deserved victory over raging, smug Vader on Mustafar, being that Palpatine himself perhaps viewed it as himself now, 'being off the hook'? Even more ironically, Palpatine was mad at Vader for losing and being mutilated and weakened, and never let him forget it. Palpatine practically bullied Vader for the rest of his life.
But before Mustafar, Vader was some prize to Palpatine, some ultimate end goal victory for the Sith. Perhaps that's just how insane and erratic the Sith had become that they'd have to invest so many hopes on one successor, but there you go; Palpatine tried out three apprentices - one he never intended to go much further beyond being a practice run, the next he wanted as a frontman and fall guy during the Clone Wars, and the last he ultimately ended up using as an overgrown imperial enforcer on life support. Luke was supposed to be 'the Anakin as he should/could have been', at least under Sith control.
Nevertheless, I'd agree with you that ultimately to invest a literal millennia into producing some ultimate Sith, personified in one dervish of destruction, was perhaps, a mistake. They were practically an endangered species so to speak (and I know, I know, they aren't one species, and the Sith species literally is extinct in that original context, but I'm talking about 'species' more poetically and artistically, with a different context; e.g. like saying, 'that is a rare species of the truth' etc)
The Jedi Order, for all it's blissful ignorance, complacency, dogmatic blindness and sometimes outright stupidity born of overbearing philosophical indoctrination, was still more successful by and large, than the Sith Order. The Sith played a blinder and pulled a fast one on them, hoodwinking them in a very spectacular and horrific way, for a little while; but even so, Kenobi and Yoda dedicated the remainder of the corporeal lives to defending the 'new hope' (Luke) and especially Kenobi of course, literally staking out Owen Lars' moisture farm and shielding the place from Tuskens, pirates, bounty hunters and worse (even Maul)
He didn't even pick a particularly clever alias to use ('Ben Kenobi')
Simply because it was Tatooine, he probably didn't need to. Palpatine turned a blind eye to the Hutt operations on Tatooine and hundreds of other worlds, as the Empire expanded and they pragmatically avoided fights with giant criminal cartels while trying to tackle one problem (the rebels) at a time. I'm fairly certain that had the Galactic Empire endured a full-century, Palpatine (presumably in some clone body or other by then) would be more willing to crack down on criminal gangs etc mainly because, by then, theoretically in that alternative timeline, he simply wouldn't need them around anymore.
They only got away with it because they weren't ready to cut them loose yet. Given half the chance, I'm sure they would have (much as, given the first opportunity, the anti-Imperials on Tatooine took advantage post-Endor and overthrew the remaining garrison forces still posted there, grimly skewering their helmets to spikes in public areas as displays of their gladness over shaking off the yolk of the Empire)
That said, as much as the Jedi through the likes of Kenobi, Ahsoka (I count her as a Jedi cos yeah, no matter what happened, she still basically was one, albeit, changed) and Yoda suffered in exile, they still won. Now, I personally dislike the sequels heavily and prefer not to look at them or consider them canon, but they _are_ canon whether we like this or not, and so even there, the Jedi won. The First Order and Final Order were both wiped out.
The Sith Eternal, destroyed. Palpatine himself finally destroyed (until Disney want him back for lack of originality) It's sad really. In the end, Palpatine just looks like an old lunatic. As immensely talented, powerful and skilled as he was, the absolute apex of the Sith in any area, canonically (sorry Vitiate, you're cool and scary dude but Palpatine is still better), _even Palpatine_ is just some relic maniacally threatening the entire galaxy to get some abstract notion of a Sith Empire ruling forever. For what?
At that point, he is just an old psychopath barely kept alive as a clone, rapidly burning through the clone body because it can't handle the scale of FUUUCK involved in the magnitude of his dark side power.
The Sith have no end game. They are just narcissistic lunatics with a desperate desire to gain power at any cost, but are so lost in that game that they become institutionalised to it. As annoyingly dumb and basic-bitch as the Jedi can be sometimes, the Sith themselves are just a bunch of edgy bois acting like they have this grand plan all laid out, when really it just boils down to short term power and endlessly betraying each other.
Their approach to galactic geopolitics is far too unstable. Palpatine in the sequels literally goes as far as painting a big neon 'come get me X marks the spot' sign on his needlessly spoppy hidden lair on Exegol, and then is annihilated accordingly. Sure, the sequels are the writing equivalent of aids in a van in a dumpster/crater fire, but still. It is still Disney upheld canon. That madness still happened. In which case, what do we think about Palpatine's ideas regarding the future of the Sith?
What, convert Rey and let her do it all over again? _Great_ :/ This is why for all their talk of revenge and power, the Sith are completely pathetic. They are just raging psychos and killers and even taking their intelligence and complexity of interactions to the Machiavellian heights of someone as sneaky and clever as Palpatine, he is still, ultimately just a raging psycho-fiend when you peel off that mask. There is no deeper aspect to that power. It's power and control for power and control's sake. Tyranny, despotism.
P.S - Palpatine's rule is just a petty, planetary warlord's expanded and given better graphics over a galaxy. It's just a bigger version of that.
When you boil down what he is really doing and all about, it's just that on a bigger scale. There is nothing impressive about it, in itself. The rule I mean.
What is far more impressive, is obviously _how_ he managed to pull it off. As interesting and clever as Palpatine is, Sith ideology itself is boring. It goes through the motions of acting subversive and clever compared to Jedi dogma, but at the same time, achieves nothing long-term. Civilisationally, it's bankrupt. Just look at Dromund Kaas or Zakuul, or Korriban (Morabund) for that matter. What jokers these guys are. Nihilistic jokers - even the clever ones, like creamy Sheev.
the council jedi are still blind fools in my opinion.
they still didnt question an army being ordered before the war needed it... a decade before the war needed it, an army that broke a ton of taboos and was ordered by a jedi who was close friends with count dooku and was removed from the jedi council for wanting to build an army.
the jedi fully integrated their order with the republic, you know, instead of having a branch of the jedi (say the knights) serve in the republic peacekeeping forces for a period as part of their training, or service, so the jedi order itself stays independent of the republic, and can respond to sith threats outside of republic jurisdiction.
when count dooku revealed himself to be a sith why didnt the extra cautious jedi investigate people he had contact with to see who turned him over to the dark side, or who he may have drawn into the sith himself?
when the jedi received an army of clones and were told they had alterations made to them, no jedi from the medical corps or otherwise wanted to look into the changes that were made. did the clones have night vision, electro-magnetic detecting senses? nobody knew because not a single jedi looked over the manufacturing instructions, so not a single jedi knew about the control chip.
seems a little strange the jedi would be so cautious about sith returning, then willingly send jedi into the same situation that made revan into a sith lord instead of sending jedi as ambassadors to CIS worlds as a peacekeeping force but to also act as a wide net to catch dooku and his apprentice/master.
sure the trap was perfectly set, but it was set for the perfect idiot to walk into it
The Senate bid the Jedis’ involvement.
Yes
Valid points and quite likely the case.
I kinda get the Jedi would lead the fight against Sith uprisings, but wouldn’t the New Republic military establishment get really frustrated with this incursion into their turf? I would think the Jedi just ‘taking over’ the military would create a whole lot of tension and resentment.
To be honest the rule of two was created to completely change the sith so that the next time The Jedi and Sith would clash it would already be to late for the Jedi
Let’s go!!!
I think even if the Jedi had been independent of the Republic they would be caught between a rock and a hard place. Don't go to war maybe you save the order but the order will be percieved by the public and the senate as traitors; if the order does go to war there is a good chance the public will continue to support the order and the order gains allies in the senate they chose the least bad option.
I’ve always wanted to see the clone wars told as of the Jedi had won
Palpatine set the perfect trap. If the Jedi Council refused to allow the order to join the war then there would've been a schism in the order between those who wanted to fight and those who didn't. This would've effectual divided the order and not to mention the public opinion of the Jedi would've been in the dumps.
More awesome feets of strength by Darkseid user's
Wait one sith lord said the sith controlled the senate. You would need a little bit more evidence than that.
So basically the sith was introducing new methods while the Jedi only followed the old ways
The Jedi were screwed either way whether they remained neutral or not.
Hey
Hey
Was getting boring around the temple.
So... it's the same type of stand as Star Platinum... O_o
Yes sith
wrong - Obi Wan did not believe Dooku when he told him that the Galactic Senate was under the Sith control.
wrong - if the Jedi didn't adapt the Grand Army they have no chance against CIS.
wrong - they did not know they walk into a trap. hint, hint from Windu. "I sense a plot against the Jedi". yeah, i sense a plot and you are a master. no wonder you're dead.
wrong - Jedi are peacekeepers and they have been fighting in endless battles for millennia.
The Jedi did not loose their way. The Sith changed the rules of the game.
Um ww1 and ww2 same exact thing
Hm, interesting.
The Jedi made the mistake of mixing religion with government.
Ok
Palpatine is a diabolical genius. Too bad the writing and the acting in the prequels suck.
The Jedi order had it coming unfortunately. They stopped following the will of the force in favor of the will of the senate ages ago. It wasn’t until after being destroyed did yoda and obi-wan adopt a new style of teaching. Luke being the result. If you listen carefully to almost everything yoda tells Luke it flies in the face of the Jedi order we see in the prequels. Brilliant really.
जय श्री राम
Arrogance.