I LOVE the way Palpatine's declaration of the 1st Galactic Empire is phrased in the novelization. It uses several catchphrases from real world nations. "We are one nation, indivisible." The United States pledge of allegiance. "One nation, under God, indivisible..." "We are an empire that will stand ten thousand years!" Both a play on "The Reich shall stand a thousand years" and the East Asian use of 10,000 which tends to actually mean infinite.
Palpatine and his politics did a great job making the entire galaxy see him as someone indispensable in their lives. In fact, a group of imperials nostalgic for the old regime tried to crash Luke and Mara Jade's wedding, not out of malice, but because the Emperor's death left a huge hole in their hearts, so they were disposed to do anything that could help them overcome their depression.
Honestly, I would love to see a star wars show starring a Separatist; not only would we get to see a side of the Clone Wars not often shown, but there would also be the tragic irony of knowing how it'll all end.
@@Bullminator We got a glimpse into the CIS's side in The Clone Wars, but not a full perspective on what they were actually like, why someone might support them, or what people really thought about the CIS government or the war effort.
There's a great comic from the early 00s Clone Wars Adventures series called heroes on both sides that explores a battle from the perspective of both a clone commando and a roadian fighting for the separatists as they rush the same objective. It's not super fleshed out a story but it's interesting nonetheless.
47:56 This seems like a misrepresentation. The corporates were not genuine Separatists either, at least, not the majority of them. Most of them still maintained neutrality, and they all knew about at least part of Palpatine's plan. Even in TCW, which portrays them more like actual Separatists, that the corporates are only war profiteers, and ROTS has all the information that lore channels seem to forget. The corporate leaders on the CIS Council clearly in that film had been helping Palpatine rig the war in the Republic's favour. The CIS wouldn't have been so unscrupulous because it was also strongly anti-monopoly and disapproved of the amount of power individual corporations had. The Battle of Naboo was a major contributing factor to increasing Separatism, as the Separatists saw that the Republic were so apathetic on the topic of corporate power that they were even willing to let the corporates invade a wealthy human colony world.
One thing to give the Sith credit for is giving their subordinates a comfortable life within their tyranny in order to maintain their loyalty. For example, SWTOR's Sith Empire had military bases filled with luxury restaurants, shops, fun zones, etc. so that their soldiers remained 100% motivated in their exhausting and atrocious job
That's the oldest form of control. Not only to ensure loyalty, but also to make citizens dependent. Dependent citizens are less likely to revolt. If you want power, put humans in a prison, convince them to rely on daily, external controlled resources and allow them to customise their cells and see their loved ones whenever they want. You will be surprised to see how many would chose such a prison over freedom.
@UltimateDurzan That statement is basically one of the core philosophies of anarcho-capitalism. I'm a big critic of libertarians, but that statement... I can't argue with that one. It's also a perfect description of our high valued democracy. People believe that democracy is freedom because you can change some aspects of it, but is it really freedom? Can you go to the government and say: "Let's make a deal: You give me a lawless piece of land outside your jurisdiction and don't tax me. In return I won't use public transports or services you pay for." You can't do this. You aren't allowed to live outside the government and that's slavery. Furthermore, the government's authority to make laws is baseless, if you really think about it. It is said that the people delegate power to the government, but do you have the right to decide what your neighbour can and can't do? No, because you are a human like him, and therefore you have the same rights and responsibilities. But how is it that you can delegate the "right" to tax your neighbour to the government? How can you delegate rights you don't have?
44:45 Love how Darth Talon gets the best shot here, having a presence much more prominent than even Darth Krayt himself. It's pretty obvious that the artist behind the image knew what he was doing. 😏
@@Azure_Fireshe has a personality being a Krayts slave and a assassin and she acts like one, should she be sassy quip all the time and roll her eyes or be a krayet her self just like all the "strong women" characters in today age just copies of Ray😒
@@Azure_Fire being a slave and assassin is part of her charecter and every time people bring up "personality" when talking about female character like Talon is disingenuous and Ray is the example of this female "personality"
16:48 This art is undoubtly one of the most badass and underrated in all Star Wars. Despite being the only illustration of the Pius Dea Crusades we ever got, this image alone tells with no words an amazing story that deserves to be explored. Those cathedral ships, by the way 😱
@@tickticktickBOOOOM I liked AFanWithTooMuchTime's StarWars vs Warhammer 40,000 fanfic(don't let that incredibly blunt algorithm/clickbait friendly name fool you, it goes deeper than just the two sides fighting) had the Republic's first assumption fallowing first contact with the Imperial BattleFleet that had been flung to the edge of the galaxy by Warp shenanigans was that they were the Pius Dea returning. I also like how it hybridizes the Force and Warp, hearing a Techpriest declare "The Gellar Field is too powerful, it's not meeting enough resistance! We need to lower the output or it will tear the ship apart!" because the sea of souls in the galaxy far far away isn't full of Deamons yet is hilarious.
10:48 For those who wonder, this official art depicts Ahsoka and Rex being accompanied on a mission, in the "No Prisoners" novel, by a Jedi named Callista Ming, who would fall in love with Luke decades later, forming with him a stable relationship after passing her consciousness to the deceased body of a Jedi student. She would then be killed by Abeloth, thus becoming the Entity's vessel
I honestly wish the sequels explored politics like this fantastic video. The lack of political context in those movies were one of the main reasons that Trilogy was a non-sensical mess
Exactly. The writers of the sequels either ignored everything that the prequels expanded upon just to promote RL political BS (woke, feminism)… or they just had NO clue how to do so.
They didn't explore the politics because there weren't any. They just made TFA as a ANH remake. Disney wanted to avoid anything Prequel-related, probably why they made the New Republic capital Hosnian Prime rather than Coruscant*.They had no overall plan for the sequel trilogy. *Even that part is inconsistent. In S.3 of Mando, the New Republic was based on Coruscant, we see that in how the amnesty program was being managed and where the pilots report to their superior officers. So what happened between then and TFA?
@@InhabitantOfOddworld Didn't the imperial remnant still hold Coruscant though? I think it is natural the Capital changes considering the circumstances, even if the New Republic held Coruscant. Besides that I completely agree, the sequels were just there to make money off of nostalgia, not to be thought-provoking. Which is ironic considering the movies prior depicted what happens when you chase power and profits over everything else.
@@zhop951 From what I gather of canon, the imperial remnants all fled to the unknown regions. That's where Rae Sloane ended up, it's where the FO turned Ilum into Starkiller Base, and it's where Palpyclone set up shop on Exegol I'd see no reason why the New Republic wouldn't start again on Coruscant, given that rebellion leaders like Mon Mothma were senators used to being there. After all, we saw the New Republic be based on Coruscant in S3 of Mando.
@@InhabitantOfOddworldThe First Order specifically was founded there, but weren't there other Imperial remnants that stayed (and oddly enough, didn't do much of anything during the sequels)
Please make more videos like these. Maybe ones analyzing the sith ideology. Your videos are excellent and are up there with Generation Tech as the most insightful Star Wars content creators
"The more you tighten your grip, the more star systems will slip through your fingers." I wonder if they're gonna retcon Nemik's manifesto being the inspiration for Leia saying this.
The quote is how Leia addressed Tarkin aboard the DS1. Nemik is a part of the partisan group in Andor, which takes place prior to the breakout of the Galactic Civil War during the reign of the Empire
What separated the Galactic Empire from previous Sith empires can be summed up like this: It wasnt a Sith Empire, it was an empire for the Sith to rule.
To put these ideologies in simple boxes, which is reductive, I admit, but still helpful, the Galactic Republic is a liberal or neoliberal democracy broadly, though individual planetary governments range from democratic republics to monarchies to autocracies and so on. The Galactic Empire is fascist, being primarily modeled on Nazi Germany, but with elements of Imperial Japan and Stalinist Russia incorporated as well. The CIS is a libertarian capitalist society, being ostensibly democratic, but ultimately run by corporate interests and a council aligned with the corporations. The Rebel Alliance encompasses a broad range of leftist ideologies such as social democracy, anarchism, and potentially certain forms of socialism, though the latter isn't shown explicitly, to my knowledge. The New Republic specifically is best described as somewhere between liberal democracy and social democracy.
this is the best way to summarize the ideologies of those factions in a simple paragraph, although it is important to note that by the end of the vlone wars, palpatine had already turned the republic into a fascist regime
This is not a good summary. Libertarianism is not the rule of corporations, either from right or left-wing libertarianist perspectives. Social-democracy is not specific to the left, as right-wing social democrats can and do exist in many countries. It is more a term that describes the role of the State in contrast to the Free Market rather than an ideology of anti conservatism against socialism/left-wing liberalism Neoliberalism in the real world is also a charged umbrella term with few actual proponents and is not a real established school of economics or politics, but rather a left-wing attempt at grouping vastly different groups from economic schools under the same banner that got its main popularity during the 80s and 90s. Outside International Relations Theory and a subfield called International Political Economy you wil find few people that take the term seriously as it is not a specific form of government or ideas. In the Expanded Universe the Rebels were a group of literally everything against the autocratic rule of the Empire, so considering left-wing is a little bit incomplete as a description.
@@waterbloom1213Essentially it seems to me like the rebels are hardly even a defined government system, more like a temporary operation and alliance until their objective is complete
I would say that Palpatine overlooking the high human laws to allow Thrawn the rank of Grand Admiral speaks volumes to his genius(Thrawn's, not Palps). I love your channel because you tackle a lot of the idealogical and philosophical topics of Star Wars. On top of that, you do excellent, well thought out lore videos.
50:41 An idea they discarded, given how they embraced the Empire and effectively enslaved much of the planet, even shipping much of the populace off to mines and factories across the stars.
The greatest Star Wars politician without adoubt was Borsk Fey'lya. Man joined the Rebels, not because he believed in freedom, but just because he knew it wasthe most convenient group for his own agenda. Disturbingly realistic
I think that one of the most interesting lines in Andor is Saw Gererra and Luthen’s conversation about the different ideologies driving the various factions of the Rebellion. Neo-Republicans, Seperatists, Galaxy Partitionists, Human Cultists, etc. and my god I *need* to read those manifestos
I think something that should also be kept in mind with the Rebels is much like the CIS they are, though to a much lesser degree controlled opposition as the Empire actively manipulates, and allows to continue to exist the Rebellion to various degrees. However due to the much weaker control over said opposition, its nature as much firmer true opposition, and the wildcard factors that were jedi and other characters like Luke Skywalker there was also a need to truly crush them. Even then for all intents and purposes the Empire was on the cusp of victory at Endor, it was one big relatively well prepared trap that outside of certain HIGHLY unlikely factors going the rebels way would have seen the vast majority of any united resistance against the Empire destroyed in a single blow, all the while the Emperor would either get a fancy new apprentice, or eliminate the last true jedi capable of stopping him.
The Republic is a great example of real democracy, full of idealistic ideas of unity, equality and the sharing of power, but the reality is much less rosy because many of those ideas would only work as advertised in a perfect world.
29:24 lol the Imperial Navy was explicitly built to prevent all the stupid wars of the Republic from happening again. In the Hand of Thrawn Duology Lando straight up realizes most of the Imperial focus was on keeping planetary and sector feuds from becoing wars by just placing the Imperial Navy in the middle of it. As well as nationalizing the sector forces and centralizing them. Also given the Vong came in when the Empire collapsed it seems like Palpatine was right. Oh, and the Imperial Senate has enough power that you know Vader and the Imperial Navy felt they had to hide that they arrested Leia for rebellion in Episode IV. And how Palpatine and Vader kidnapped the Imperial Senators who formed the Rebel Alliance, not doing it above-ground. Hell the Imperial Senate had enough power that the rest of the Imperial Government had to hids how large their navies were going to be given the Senate would complain about it. Also, Imperial Moffs were generally selected from the region they governed. The moff of Chommel Sector was Captain Panaka in the original rtilogy for example. Also Moffs were supposed to centralize power but they were you know supposed to work with the other planetary and sector authorities. They may be both civil-military authorities but you'll be an incompetent and stupid Moff if you piss off everyone in your sector lel. EDIT: also Moffs didnt let the Imperial Military do whatever they did. They literally were the sector governors, duel civilian-military officers who CONTROLLED the sector fleet, even if they didnt directly control whatever central forces the Empire had.
I still think it's important to acknowledge that while you can say the Navy was built to deter war...really Palpatine just wanted a huge military that he could swing around like a hammer. And while certainly Palpatine wanted to be prepared for the Vong, acquiring his own power was always what drove him. At no point was Palpatine motivated by a desire to secure the galaxy, only selfishness.
@@Azure_Fire The Empire was more than just Palpatine, there was existing core-rim tensions which the video mentions. Even if the Jedi overthrew and killed or tried Palpatine in Episode 3, you willl still get a centralized, humanocentric, core-dominated, militarist Republic ruling the Galaxy. it may not be as authoritarian as the Empire would be but it would be more Empire-lite in its internal and external politics. Especially given the Human Core would want revenge for Grievious's campaigns. (I think Palpatine engaged in policies to pardon prominent Separatists and bring them into his new Empire when conquering them, t least at first)
@@Azure_Fire That took like several yeats, and in the legends even when Palpatine was killed, most of the Empire still was loyal to whoever was in Coruscant and even most of the Warlords kept loyalty to the Empire as a concept. Like the Rebels still had to conquer planets and whatnot, the Empire didn't exactly totally fall apart. Also that Vong agent who destabilized the Reborn Empire (a the Vong rationally recognized the Empire as a threat to them)
Whenever I delve into the lore of a setting I'm interested in, I'm always concerned. It seems these nerdy hobbies occasionally tend to have a big chud/reactionary infiltration. You, sir, just expanded my inventory of based creators that actually understand what the fucking lore is saying. Thank you very much.
7:10 this reminds me of the Extra History videos on Thermopylae, the Greek city-states wanted the freedom to run themselves how they saw fit, rather than individual liberty.
A brilliant video guys, and a brilliant thesis on the multiple ideologies/philosophies of the Star Wars peoples and the correlation with the problems inherent in real world politics, which unfortunately includes it's sometimes gruesome outcomes.
15:19 i mean most of the sapient biomass of the Galaxy is in the human-dominated Core, colonies and Inner Rim. Also, Last I remember Alderaan's Senate seat was that of the Alderaan SECTOR, its just that the Alderaan planet has enough prestige that you generally got representatives appointed by the Alderaanian planetary government.
Many of them understood it the duty of a Jedi to protect the Republic and its people, and it's not hard to see how a lot of them would see a connection there. We, here on Earth, raised by our parents, don't have the same thought processes and ideological training that a Jedi Master would have raised in the Temple their entire lives
@hideousruin and again, that's an argument you're making thru your lens of being here on earth and seeing all the star wars movies, knowing how the story ends. This is literally like saying "if another country attacked my home I wouldn't defend my own country bc war is wrong" to the Jedi, they were defending their civilization from a genuine threat in the sith. The alternative was to sit back and watch the Sith take over thousands of planets, kill and enslave millions of people and do nothing about it? Nah. People would've hated the Jedi even more if they did that Fighting in the clone war was the wrong move, but there were so many layers of manipulation they genuinely were put into a position where they had no choice but to participate. You speak this way bc you know it was all a ruse by the Sith, again bc you've seen the movies and all the shows, yet somehow you've missed the pointof all of it lol You know how many wars were started at least in legends bc of one rogue jedi taking the law into their own hands? Blowing things up, escalating, making things worse? I'm not saying you're wrong for that opinion, but it does show you're like not taking the full picture into account
@cloudmaster182 i disagree with fighting in the clone wars to be wrong The jedi's flaw was that they refused to allow different expressions of force power, and they became an arm of an indifferent state. The republic was shown as a liberal docracy, that refused to defend itself from antidemocratic political forces internally. Their belief in the system itself instead of the people in it left people across the galaxy vunerable and divided, making the empire possible Also keeping in mind your real political beliefs, and those of the creators will change what you think went wrong with the clone wars I think the pluralism including any form of capitalistic or authoritarian organisation was the problem but i dont like capitalism and am an antiauthoritarian so that makes sense
HOLY SHIT. You just propelled yourself from nerds who love to talk about lore to FULL BLOWN In-depth political annalist video essayist just like that! Bravo! Also I just wanted to say that UA-cam unsubbed me recently from quite a few channels, yours was included. Resubbed and all that but if you took a hit in analytics it's because UA-cam does purges.
Ideologies are a very complex thing, even someone who supports an evil cause could have a good ideological reason to support it, despite the evil acts done by all factions, the Empire was obviously the worst, many good people supported all these sides for various reasons, because they believed it was the right and good thing to do for the galaxy. And everyone's views are slightly different even when they're all on the same side. And the side or ideology one chooses to follow will also depend on the person, their beliefs, their life experiences, and so on. Me presonally, I make it no secret I am pro-Galactic Republic and by extension the Rebellion to Restore the Republic. Despite its flaws I still support it. And you made a good point on the Jjedi's role in it, trying to reign in the more evil acts of the Republic, I feel that is an important and understated role in any organization, relationship, or whatever. As Yoda learned during season 6 of The Clone Wars, everyone has at least a little darkness inside of them. The important thing is that you're light outweighs it. However, sometimes your own light isn't enough, and that's why you need others who can help keep you grounded and reigned in, like how Padme, Obi-Wan, Ahsoka, Rex, R2 and a few others were that for Anakin, which is why Palpatine wanted to get rid of all of them so there would be no to cover his dark side tendencies. And that's why, despite how it failed to execute it at times, the Republic had the right idea to bring all these different views together to discuss things out to find the best possible outcome, just because you have different views doesn't mean you can't along and work together, I mean I'm pro-Galactic Republic and my friend King Orange is pro-CIS, but we still get along despite that and by having different views we share with each other it allows us to learn from each other and become better. As the Rebels episode where Rex and Kalin joined forces shows us, it's important to find the middle ground.
this is why it’s more useful to discuss “evil” (or more productively, harm) in terms of systems and actions rather than people and their beliefs. An individualist, personal view of good and evil excuses those who perpetrate, uphold, or tolerate harm without intending to by centering discussions around their unknowable and less-relevant individual beliefs instead of that harm and how to prevent or redress it. Not to mention every “individual’s” beliefs are moved by the systems and culture they inhabit. A morality that focuses on actions, systems, and their results allows us to discuss the systemic/cultural failures of the Jedi without having to waste time equivocating about whether individual Jedi were “evil,” i.e. they could not bring “peace” to a galaxy they only chose to become involved with in the context of war, and on a more personal level their detachment and emotional repression was not healthy for their treatment of other peoples or the more grievously traumatized among their own order (namely Anakin).
@@bumfricker2487 Yeah, as a whole the Jedi Order did fail the galaxy during the Clone Wars. Of course, sepecific indivdual Jedi didn't fail, it was the Order and others that failed them.
The basis of my current support of the Separatist Alliance came from my views as a kid I grew up with the OT and while I often like villains better I was bigger Rebel Alliance fan due to their variety of alien species and heroic goals Then I watched the prequels and I saw the roles reversed: now the insurgents were the bad guys and the government was the good guys. But even then many things captivated me, starting with fairly superficial things like the cool droid designs and Grievous using four lightsabers As I grew up I slowly realized that the Separatists were basically the Rebels of their time but flawed, more complex, more interesting (this was before Rogue One mind you and even then people like Andor were former separatists) The final thing that sold me on them however was this: the Republic was truly corrupt and neglectful, hundreds of worlds suffered indifference in exchange of high taxation long before Palpatine started to enact his plan for galactic domination A single central government cannot fairly lead an entire galaxy's worth of worlds and cultures. The objective of the Confederacy of Independent Systems (ignoring the sith/corporate manipulations that had infected both factions equally) was never to destroy the Galactic Republic but to secede from it, achieve planetary autonomy Sure there are risks in allowing every planet to rule themselves without a centralized set of laws, but this freedom in my opinion is better than the alternative: a failed single state ruled by nepotism, harboring the seeds of xenophobia and autocracy "Dooku was right in the end. He knew the Republic was corrupt, that it would collapse and become something worse He saw it coming: the Galactic Empire"
Very true in many ways. The Separatists were always an interesting faction, in part because it is one of the most politically complex factions within the Star Wars setting, but also because I would argue it went through the largest behind the scenes changes as the Star Wars continuity evolved both through Legends and Canon.
So a friend and I are working on a post rotj timeline for a Star Wars TTRPG game I'm running where the politics make more sense, and this video really just vindicated the both of us lmao, thank you for this. It's a really great video.
a good job. i outright loved the big effort to be neutral (as much as none of us are its the effort thats important) i particularly like your attention to economic systems and how they contribute to the identity of a faction and how centralization is a balancing act where going to far in either direction can be a very bad thing.
I've got a question Did the destruction of Malachor V free Abeloth because of the wound in the force? If not why couldn't She escape? Thank you love the channel
Honestly, I wonder if the title of this video is for Canon fans like me. Sure, the Separatists had multiple good points about the Galactic Republic, but they’re the ones Palpatine manipulates to push the Republic to become the Empire. At the very least, the Separatist Military is as evil as the Empire itself. I actually wouldn’t be shocked if Republic Officers during the Clone Wars took inspiration from their Separatist enemies when they became Imperial Officers. Also, Canon Galactic Republic doesn’t have as dark of a history as its Legends counterpart, though one thing that stays the same between continuities is how the Republic practically hands the Outer Rim to the corporations, only starts to rein them in after Naboo, and clearly doesn’t do enough since they actually tolerate the “neutrality” of the corporations in the Clone Wars despite their forces making up at least a majority of the Separatist Military. Though at least Canon Republic didn’t provide military support to the corporations while Canon Empire sends Stormtroopers and TIE Fighters to help out the Mining Guild, Sienar, and Kuat Drive Yards.
canon republic was still the biggest users of mass bombardment of civilians. the republic is just the empire that still placates the jedi when the jedi are present. and even then they sometimes openly do evil things and the jedi ignore it or help out (such as duing cato nemodia where they bomb the hatcheries and nurseries, ie dirrect targeting of children)
You forgot one more important person who was also one of the founders of the Rebel Alliance: Galen Marek! His family crest became the symbol of the Rebellion
Every Evil Empire has a habit of making things worse beforehand, so its people are ready to surrender its freedoms for more security. Palpatine knew this too well, which is why he became Supreme Chancellor. He knew the Empire couldn't just walk in and take over. He had to make things so bad, people would cry praises of joy for a more strict government to take over. He took a Republic that was already bad and dialed the bad to a 20. Unfortunately, the Empire was too strict and unyielding. Its grip on its planets was too tight and methods, too harsh to say the least. These facts and a military force too generalized and unadaptive led to the eventual decline of the Empire. To paraphrase Princess Leia, "The greater you tighten your grip, Tarkin, the more star systems will slip through your fingers."
After hearing this video, I cannot helped but wondering what are the things the Third Republic simply restored and what are the things they improved upon to make it better than the days of the Second Republic. And if the Empire wanted to truly justify its massive Imperial war machine, it needed an actual enemy. You know, like how the Abbasid Caliphate decided to cease the military expansion of the Umayyad Caliphate and pursue annual raids against the Roman Empire instead. So aside from the Battle of Talas and the Conquest of Tarsus, the Abbasid Caliphate never expanded their borders in any directions at all. Rather, the annual raids launched into Anatolia that was ruled by the Roman Empire back then in order to gain loots, slaves and to keep the Roman Empire weakened is the better policy here because the Caliphate has an actual enemy to justify its war machine and to keep the civilians within the Caliphate united under the common threat. Also, can the planets that seceded survived on their own for long? Assuming that if the secession ended in success, of course. I know that they already have to deal with the pirates like the Black Sun, the Hutts, the Zygerrians, the Pykes and the corporations that were their previous allies that were clearly joined because they wanted to make money. And yes, I also know that they can have the defense pacts can be signed and the treaties get renewed in order to fight them. But what are their chances of victories against one of these money-hungry entities?
@@lerneanlion considering the republic wasn't helping in their defense it would mean they have greater ability to survive independant. no taxes taken from them to fund the core, all of it can be used locally meaning more credits for defense.
@@matthiuskoenig3378 They have more money and raw materials with themselves but they lacked the way to turn them into the finished products. So they needed to figure this out first without the Republic.
“Well built fictional world” Oh really? Tell me how many stabs with a lightsaber is fatal. Or better yet, how one survives getting incapacitated and falling into a giant hole. This world was always kinda wonky. Lucas or Disney era.
I love star wars as a setting (the sequel trilogy can kick rocks though, sadly) because the traditional good-guys are exceedingly and dangerously flawed in a number of complex and understandable ways, while the traditional bad-guys are genuinely reasonable on the majority of matters, but its the matters on which they aren't agreeable that are egregious enough to justify the efforts against them. Safety and security are genuine and important concerns in the galaxy, given the range of unscrupulous criminals and unstable governments abound in reoublic space, and the plentitude exestential threats shown in extended universe material. Shame about the whole 'blowing up populated planets to *make a point* against your enemies', though. Everyone should have some voice in government, and decentralization towards local government is always a good idea, shame about the prolific corruption and unimpeded mass exploitation, though. Even the Jedi and Sith are so varied in personal beliefs, methodology, and origin that their cult-like organization and cooperation with or subversion of the republic government genuinely makes sense for their function. It just works.
Darth Vader "Now that we liquidated megacorporations and broke up monopolies we can free the slaves and create a strong welfare state that simultaneously encourages investment and personal autonomy" Palpatine-"Ehh...No." Darth-"Aww. Well I got a cool suit. Kind of itchy though."
As much as the Jedi got wrong, I find it funny that people attack them for their relationship with the republic. I’m no Jedi lover, but they did the best they could. People love ragging on them for the plights of the republic but what choice did they have. If they weren’t officially sanctioned by the republic they wouldn’t have any reach within the republic. The only way they could make change is as official agents. Otherwise they would be vigilantes. Guess what, if they are acting without republic sanctions they would be criminals with little to no political power. Take any superhero group and they typically have to allow a government to have power over them. Else they would just be labeled criminals.
Great video as always, but I have a different opinion on the Megacorps of the CIS. I don't think that libertarian capitalism is what the megacorps wanted. The ideal government for the megacorps is a corporatist government like the Galactic Empire. Libertarian capitalism is not appealing for megacorps. You may be able to destroy your competition more easily, but why wasting money on that, when you can co-operate with a government that destroys your competition through regulation and bureaucracy at the cost of citizens? Ask yourself how the separatist megacorps became that powerful. Most, if not all of them, co-operated with the Republic and gained an unnatural degree of economic power through unequal regulations and other kinds of special treatment. Their definition of "free market" is vastly different to the libertarian concept.
Yes, this is one of the many problems I identified with this video. It may take things the writers put at face value or it may be derived from his own conclusions, but the depiction of political and economic ideologies here is rather poor.
@@waterbloom1213 Politically, Geetslys is very good most of the time, but the economic analysis is based upon already existing conclusions and that's the problem. It is assumed that megacorps love libertarianism, because of a claimed lawlessness in such societies. But no one was ever able to proof it. It remains a theory that a libertarian society will immediatly collapse, because no one ever tried it. But this doesn't stop anyone from claiming these unproved statements. Because parts of this video are based upon these theories, it can't be objective. Furthermore, you have to ask yourself: If megacorps really love libertarian capitalism, where is all the advertisement in our real world? Have you ever heard that Samsung, Apple or Microsoft ever demanded the dissolution of the government? No. They do not demand a society without governments, because they would lose most of their power without a corrupt regime.
@@ArdysLoreLibrary I agree. He conflates corporationism and mercantilism with capitalism, classical liberalism or libertarian free markets (which is just a subtype of libertarianism). There is no analysis here on the roles of States and the extent of their intervention in contrast to economic freedoms by institutions and individuals and therefore we cannot conclude correctly for example that the CIS was libertarian, especially not when some of its elements like the Trade Federation had no qualms regarding the blocking of Naboo and seemed to act more like the East India company being willing to use force in an offensive manner.
@waterbloom1213 Not only that, but the CIS, at least by the time of the Clone Wars, can't be libertarian, because it had a government. And if the megacorps were libertarian capitalist, they would have fought the Republic as well as the Separatist Parliament. Not only that, but they would've never taken seats in the senate before the war.
The alliance / new republic and Luke's jedi order are the best factions , they take the best bits of the old and throw away the bad stuff (or at least try)
Anyone else find it ironic that Palpatine proclaimed the Empire would last for 10,000 years, yet in both Canon and Legends, it didn't even make it past 200 years before fracturing?
Slavery as punishment for crimes is something that will *never* be fully outlawed. Forced labor is simply too profitable and criminals dont have much speaking for them either. *Every* society has some element of forced labor. Usually its limited to prisons and sometimes the workers get payed but the work is still mandatory either way.
I don't really get the need for "neutrality" when discussing ideology. Because they aren't equal sets of ideals. If an ideology hurts a lot of people and helps only a handful then pretty much everyone is going to hate it unless they are part of that small group that benefits.
More like bootlickin..all that libs are,will do anyrhing if the law allows...sad way to live life same people who would of said slavery was fine cause it wasnt against the law@@Jacobp-li9fi
I've been kind of working on something similar to the Republic in my own stories, albeit with an inverted approach in that the central government is an absolute theocratic monarchy; other worlds under the sovereignty are allowed to practice their own form of governments as they please, as it is believed every sentient is fundamentally different in what type of government best suits them. The only exception is they cross a line that directly challenges/threatens the authority and fundamental beliefs of the sovereignty. This still creates conflicts as different species have their own mystical/religious beliefs, and in this setting, there is no doubt demonic dangers are very real(albeit often subtle, taking centuries or millennia to fully take hold of a people), so alternative religions of various aliens may often fall under being a threat to the sovereignty, which divides many and often forces displacement of those unwilling to give up their ways of life, driven from their homes into dangerous areas of space occupied by others who flee as well. This, in turn, is also an invasion of worlds outside of the sovereignty from those running from it, creating a huge barrier-region between this sovereignty and unknown space where it's incredibly dangerous to travel. In short, I love the idea of different aliens having very different ways of life, different cultural ideals of right and wrong, thus it being total hogwash to expect every sentient being to have the same virtues and ideals of good/evil as each other. The central figures/characters of this sovereignty in my setting aren't human at all, and given their history and genetic disposition, tend to lean into rigid authoritarianism.
13:00 This is why the Zhor'i of Raez never joined the Republic as they deemed it irresponsible and unreasonable and Zhor'i, especially Zhor'i of Raez hate dealing with anyone who is unreasonable. Do know there are no actual humans. The Zhor'i are presented to us as humans because we would understand them better that way, plus we have Zhor'i in our DNA.
It is utterly ironic for the galactic empire, to the point of pathetic, that it championed itself as the very personification of strength, order, and unity. When it advocates the Sith influenced culture of strife both internally and externally. Ensuring that conflicts and wars will never see an end point.
I need a summary here. I'm interested in the ideas suggested in the video title, but not at the cost of an hour-and-fourteen. Anyone have a Cliff Notes version they care to share?
In terms of your point about Jabiim nationalism, I can see you're from the Western Cultural sphere if you explicitly felt the need to say that the fictional form of Nationalism is closer to Earth's Anti-Colonialism. As a matter of fact where I'm from that was literally the driving force of Nationalism in the 19th and 20th century. The notion underlining Nationalism was people's rights to self determination and separation from Multi-ethnic Empires (such as the Habsburg/Austro-Hungarian, Russian and Ottoman Empires) where certain nations would get the short end of the stick while the first-class citizens reep the benefits.
![The Galactic Engineer's Guide to the Republic's Greatest Clone Wars Vehicular Creations [Vol. 2]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/FRFKI7dMaE4/mqdefault.jpg)
![The Schematics of the Separatist's Most Fearsome Droids: CIS Elite Droid Database [Vol. 2]](/img/n.gif)
I LOVE the way Palpatine's declaration of the 1st Galactic Empire is phrased in the novelization. It uses several catchphrases from real world nations.
"We are one nation, indivisible." The United States pledge of allegiance. "One nation, under God, indivisible..."
"We are an empire that will stand ten thousand years!" Both a play on "The Reich shall stand a thousand years" and the East Asian use of 10,000 which tends to actually mean infinite.
true hero
and also similar to Hitler, he got his shit kicked in like 1% of that time
I think in the same novelization Yoda thinks to himself that the empire will only last as long as palpatines' life, which is pretty funny
@@juliandacosta6841Yoda knew he did not plan on ever dying
And like the Third Reich, it barely lasted a generation.
Palpatine and his politics did a great job making the entire galaxy see him as someone indispensable in their lives. In fact, a group of imperials nostalgic for the old regime tried to crash Luke and Mara Jade's wedding, not out of malice, but because the Emperor's death left a huge hole in their hearts, so they were disposed to do anything that could help them overcome their depression.
This seems like something Geetsly should make a video on :o @Geetsly Please daddy
That’s pretty interesting considering the impact that Palpatine’s death had Mara’s psyche and put her at odds with Luke.
It’s exactly what Silly Mustache man did
H or S mustache man?@@ImNotAThief
@@samfire3067 both
Rebel: "HOW THE HELL DID YOU BECAME A BRAINWASHED MURDEROUS PAWN OF PALPATINE"
Imperial: "I watched the glorious "Empire Today" music video" 🗿
Imperial: "I am a human, I felt entitled and thus I am." LOL!
"Brainwashed" 🤣
🗿
@@sagittariusa7662877😮8777778i888
Rebel: "WHY AREN'T YOU A BRAINWASHED MURDEROUS PAWN OF ME"
Honestly, I would love to see a star wars show starring a Separatist; not only would we get to see a side of the Clone Wars not often shown, but there would also be the tragic irony of knowing how it'll all end.
Well the animated series kinda did that.
The droid wars
i'd take that
@@Bullminator We got a glimpse into the CIS's side in The Clone Wars, but not a full perspective on what they were actually like, why someone might support them, or what people really thought about the CIS government or the war effort.
There's a great comic from the early 00s Clone Wars Adventures series called heroes on both sides that explores a battle from the perspective of both a clone commando and a roadian fighting for the separatists as they rush the same objective. It's not super fleshed out a story but it's interesting nonetheless.
47:56 This seems like a misrepresentation. The corporates were not genuine Separatists either, at least, not the majority of them. Most of them still maintained neutrality, and they all knew about at least part of Palpatine's plan. Even in TCW, which portrays them more like actual Separatists, that the corporates are only war profiteers, and ROTS has all the information that lore channels seem to forget. The corporate leaders on the CIS Council clearly in that film had been helping Palpatine rig the war in the Republic's favour.
The CIS wouldn't have been so unscrupulous because it was also strongly anti-monopoly and disapproved of the amount of power individual corporations had. The Battle of Naboo was a major contributing factor to increasing Separatism, as the Separatists saw that the Republic were so apathetic on the topic of corporate power that they were even willing to let the corporates invade a wealthy human colony world.
One thing to give the Sith credit for is giving their subordinates a comfortable life within their tyranny in order to maintain their loyalty. For example, SWTOR's Sith Empire had military bases filled with luxury restaurants, shops, fun zones, etc. so that their soldiers remained 100% motivated in their exhausting and atrocious job
That's the oldest form of control. Not only to ensure loyalty, but also to make citizens dependent. Dependent citizens are less likely to revolt. If you want power, put humans in a prison, convince them to rely on daily, external controlled resources and allow them to customise their cells and see their loved ones whenever they want. You will be surprised to see how many would chose such a prison over freedom.
For the most part, storm troopers didn't have and attrocious job.
You don't need everyone to do the horrible things.
@@ArdysLoreLibrary that... that statement actually says a lot about modern society IRL as a whole if you stop and think about it.
@UltimateDurzan That statement is basically one of the core philosophies of anarcho-capitalism. I'm a big critic of libertarians, but that statement... I can't argue with that one.
It's also a perfect description of our high valued democracy. People believe that democracy is freedom because you can change some aspects of it, but is it really freedom?
Can you go to the government and say: "Let's make a deal: You give me a lawless piece of land outside your jurisdiction and don't tax me. In return I won't use public transports or services you pay for."
You can't do this. You aren't allowed to live outside the government and that's slavery. Furthermore, the government's authority to make laws is baseless, if you really think about it. It is said that the people delegate power to the government, but do you have the right to decide what your neighbour can and can't do? No, because you are a human like him, and therefore you have the same rights and responsibilities. But how is it that you can delegate the "right" to tax your neighbour to the government? How can you delegate rights you don't have?
Shouldn't give them credit for that. It's just a manipulation tactic.
44:45
Love how Darth Talon gets the best shot here, having a presence much more prominent than even Darth Krayt himself. It's pretty obvious that the artist behind the image knew what he was doing. 😏
It's a shame the writers couldn't give her a personality to match her body...
@@Azure_Fireshe has a personality being a Krayts slave and a assassin and she acts like one, should she be sassy quip all the time and roll her eyes or be a krayet her self just like all the "strong women" characters in today age just copies of Ray😒
@@gamelucoz4595 “being a slave or assassin” isn’t a personality
@@gamelucoz4595 also why are you bringing up Rey? I never even hinted she was a better character
@@Azure_Fire being a slave and assassin is part of her charecter and every time people bring up "personality" when talking about female character like Talon is disingenuous and Ray is the example of this female "personality"
16:48 This art is undoubtly one of the most badass and underrated in all Star Wars. Despite being the only illustration of the Pius Dea Crusades we ever got, this image alone tells with no words an amazing story that deserves to be explored. Those cathedral ships, by the way 😱
Anyone from the Imperium of Man: "Pius Dea? Hmmph. Amateurs."
@@tickticktickBOOOOM I liked AFanWithTooMuchTime's StarWars vs Warhammer 40,000 fanfic(don't let that incredibly blunt algorithm/clickbait friendly name fool you, it goes deeper than just the two sides fighting) had the Republic's first assumption fallowing first contact with the Imperial BattleFleet that had been flung to the edge of the galaxy by Warp shenanigans was that they were the Pius Dea returning.
I also like how it hybridizes the Force and Warp, hearing a Techpriest declare "The Gellar Field is too powerful, it's not meeting enough resistance! We need to lower the output or it will tear the ship apart!" because the sea of souls in the galaxy far far away isn't full of Deamons yet is hilarious.
Lol "light-sabre measuring." Love it.
10:48
For those who wonder, this official art depicts Ahsoka and Rex being accompanied on a mission, in the "No Prisoners" novel, by a Jedi named Callista Ming, who would fall in love with Luke decades later, forming with him a stable relationship after passing her consciousness to the deceased body of a Jedi student. She would then be killed by Abeloth, thus becoming the Entity's vessel
I honestly wish the sequels explored politics like this fantastic video. The lack of political context in those movies were one of the main reasons that Trilogy was a non-sensical mess
Exactly. The writers of the sequels either ignored everything that the prequels expanded upon just to promote RL political BS (woke, feminism)… or they just had NO clue how to do so.
They didn't explore the politics because there weren't any. They just made TFA as a ANH remake. Disney wanted to avoid anything Prequel-related, probably why they made the New Republic capital Hosnian Prime rather than Coruscant*.They had no overall plan for the sequel trilogy.
*Even that part is inconsistent. In S.3 of Mando, the New Republic was based on Coruscant, we see that in how the amnesty program was being managed and where the pilots report to their superior officers. So what happened between then and TFA?
@@InhabitantOfOddworld Didn't the imperial remnant still hold Coruscant though? I think it is natural the Capital changes considering the circumstances, even if the New Republic held Coruscant.
Besides that I completely agree, the sequels were just there to make money off of nostalgia, not to be thought-provoking. Which is ironic considering the movies prior depicted what happens when you chase power and profits over everything else.
@@zhop951
From what I gather of canon, the imperial remnants all fled to the unknown regions. That's where Rae Sloane ended up, it's where the FO turned Ilum into Starkiller Base, and it's where Palpyclone set up shop on Exegol
I'd see no reason why the New Republic wouldn't start again on Coruscant, given that rebellion leaders like Mon Mothma were senators used to being there. After all, we saw the New Republic be based on Coruscant in S3 of Mando.
@@InhabitantOfOddworldThe First Order specifically was founded there, but weren't there other Imperial remnants that stayed (and oddly enough, didn't do much of anything during the sequels)
I just realized that's Commander Shepard in the thumbnail!
My name is Commander Shepard and this is my favorite store on the Galactic Republic
@@Vincent_Rabbit nice
Please make more videos like these. Maybe ones analyzing the sith ideology. Your videos are excellent and are up there with Generation Tech as the most insightful Star Wars content creators
"The more you tighten your grip, the more star systems will slip through your fingers."
I wonder if they're gonna retcon Nemik's manifesto being the inspiration for Leia saying this.
Never heard of that, care to explain
The quote is how Leia addressed Tarkin aboard the DS1. Nemik is a part of the partisan group in Andor, which takes place prior to the breakout of the Galactic Civil War during the reign of the Empire
The best Star Wars channel and u guys drop consistently
21:34 “Speaking of […] the Empire”
*shows the CIS symbol*
i was going to mention that
What separated the Galactic Empire from previous Sith empires can be summed up like this: It wasnt a Sith Empire, it was an empire for the Sith to rule.
Very good statement.
I wish Nemik survived the heist, he would have been political juggernaut.
To put these ideologies in simple boxes, which is reductive, I admit, but still helpful, the Galactic Republic is a liberal or neoliberal democracy broadly, though individual planetary governments range from democratic republics to monarchies to autocracies and so on. The Galactic Empire is fascist, being primarily modeled on Nazi Germany, but with elements of Imperial Japan and Stalinist Russia incorporated as well. The CIS is a libertarian capitalist society, being ostensibly democratic, but ultimately run by corporate interests and a council aligned with the corporations. The Rebel Alliance encompasses a broad range of leftist ideologies such as social democracy, anarchism, and potentially certain forms of socialism, though the latter isn't shown explicitly, to my knowledge. The New Republic specifically is best described as somewhere between liberal democracy and social democracy.
this is the best way to summarize the ideologies of those factions in a simple paragraph, although it is important to note that by the end of the vlone wars, palpatine had already turned the republic into a fascist regime
This is not a good summary.
Libertarianism is not the rule of corporations, either from right or left-wing libertarianist perspectives.
Social-democracy is not specific to the left, as right-wing social democrats can and do exist in many countries. It is more a term that describes the role of the State in contrast to the Free Market rather than an ideology of anti conservatism against socialism/left-wing liberalism
Neoliberalism in the real world is also a charged umbrella term with few actual proponents and is not a real established school of economics or politics, but rather a left-wing attempt at grouping vastly different groups from economic schools under the same banner that got its main popularity during the 80s and 90s. Outside International Relations Theory and a subfield called International Political Economy you wil find few people that take the term seriously as it is not a specific form of government or ideas.
In the Expanded Universe the Rebels were a group of literally everything against the autocratic rule of the Empire, so considering left-wing is a little bit incomplete as a description.
@@waterbloom1213Essentially it seems to me like the rebels are hardly even a defined government system, more like a temporary operation and alliance until their objective is complete
@@waterbloom1213how would libertarianism result in anything other than rule of corporations?
You guys really take Star Wars content to the next level! Youve quickly become my favorite Star Wars channel!
This is my new comfort video. I'm going to watch this 752 times until I know every phrase from Geetsly's.
I would say that Palpatine overlooking the high human laws to allow Thrawn the rank of Grand Admiral speaks volumes to his genius(Thrawn's, not Palps).
I love your channel because you tackle a lot of the idealogical and philosophical topics of Star Wars. On top of that, you do excellent, well thought out lore videos.
50:41 An idea they discarded, given how they embraced the Empire and effectively enslaved much of the planet, even shipping much of the populace off to mines and factories across the stars.
In a way Geetsly’s told us the truth. From a certain point of view
The greatest Star Wars politician without adoubt was Borsk Fey'lya. Man joined the Rebels, not because he believed in freedom, but just because he knew it wasthe most convenient group for his own agenda. Disturbingly realistic
a great politician true, but a woefully inadequate military leader or policy maker.
"Stop politicizing mah Star Wars!"
Star Wars: **Is 90% politics if you think about it.**
Wow man, this video hits every point I just love hearing every last detail about. Super awesome work!
I think that one of the most interesting lines in Andor is Saw Gererra and Luthen’s conversation about the different ideologies driving the various factions of the Rebellion. Neo-Republicans, Seperatists, Galaxy Partitionists, Human Cultists, etc. and my god I *need* to read those manifestos
I think something that should also be kept in mind with the Rebels is much like the CIS they are, though to a much lesser degree controlled opposition as the Empire actively manipulates, and allows to continue to exist the Rebellion to various degrees. However due to the much weaker control over said opposition, its nature as much firmer true opposition, and the wildcard factors that were jedi and other characters like Luke Skywalker there was also a need to truly crush them. Even then for all intents and purposes the Empire was on the cusp of victory at Endor, it was one big relatively well prepared trap that outside of certain HIGHLY unlikely factors going the rebels way would have seen the vast majority of any united resistance against the Empire destroyed in a single blow, all the while the Emperor would either get a fancy new apprentice, or eliminate the last true jedi capable of stopping him.
This was a masterpiece…! Please make another video looking deeper at sith versus Jedi ideologies.
The Republic is a great example of real democracy, full of idealistic ideas of unity, equality and the sharing of power, but the reality is much less rosy because many of those ideas would only work as advertised in a perfect world.
29:24 lol the Imperial Navy was explicitly built to prevent all the stupid wars of the Republic from happening again. In the Hand of Thrawn Duology Lando straight up realizes most of the Imperial focus was on keeping planetary and sector feuds from becoing wars by just placing the Imperial Navy in the middle of it. As well as nationalizing the sector forces and centralizing them. Also given the Vong came in when the Empire collapsed it seems like Palpatine was right.
Oh, and the Imperial Senate has enough power that you know Vader and the Imperial Navy felt they had to hide that they arrested Leia for rebellion in Episode IV. And how Palpatine and Vader kidnapped the Imperial Senators who formed the Rebel Alliance, not doing it above-ground. Hell the Imperial Senate had enough power that the rest of the Imperial Government had to hids how large their navies were going to be given the Senate would complain about it.
Also, Imperial Moffs were generally selected from the region they governed. The moff of Chommel Sector was Captain Panaka in the original rtilogy for example. Also Moffs were supposed to centralize power but they were you know supposed to work with the other planetary and sector authorities. They may be both civil-military authorities but you'll be an incompetent and stupid Moff if you piss off everyone in your sector lel.
EDIT: also Moffs didnt let the Imperial Military do whatever they did. They literally were the sector governors, duel civilian-military officers who CONTROLLED the sector fleet, even if they didnt directly control whatever central forces the Empire had.
I still think it's important to acknowledge that while you can say the Navy was built to deter war...really Palpatine just wanted a huge military that he could swing around like a hammer. And while certainly Palpatine wanted to be prepared for the Vong, acquiring his own power was always what drove him. At no point was Palpatine motivated by a desire to secure the galaxy, only selfishness.
@@Azure_Fire The Empire was more than just Palpatine, there was existing core-rim tensions which the video mentions. Even if the Jedi overthrew and killed or tried Palpatine in Episode 3, you willl still get a centralized, humanocentric, core-dominated, militarist Republic ruling the Galaxy. it may not be as authoritarian as the Empire would be but it would be more Empire-lite in its internal and external politics. Especially given the Human Core would want revenge for Grievious's campaigns. (I think Palpatine engaged in policies to pardon prominent Separatists and bring them into his new Empire when conquering them, t least at first)
@@Warsie given that the empire collapsed into feuding warlords, I’d argue that Palpatine was very much essential to the empire
@@Azure_Fire That took like several yeats, and in the legends even when Palpatine was killed, most of the Empire still was loyal to whoever was in Coruscant and even most of the Warlords kept loyalty to the Empire as a concept. Like the Rebels still had to conquer planets and whatnot, the Empire didn't exactly totally fall apart.
Also that Vong agent who destabilized the Reborn Empire (a the Vong rationally recognized the Empire as a threat to them)
"We are an Empire that will stand ten thousand years!"
"Best I can do is thirty."
Whenever I delve into the lore of a setting I'm interested in, I'm always concerned. It seems these nerdy hobbies occasionally tend to have a big chud/reactionary infiltration. You, sir, just expanded my inventory of based creators that actually understand what the fucking lore is saying. Thank you very much.
That looks like Commander Shepard in the middle on the thumbnail
And the Rodian with the square rimmed glasses looks like a galactic nerd, although we're all nerds aside from the tourists who aren't.
Pretty sure it is Commander Shepard
7:10 this reminds me of the Extra History videos on Thermopylae, the Greek city-states wanted the freedom to run themselves how they saw fit, rather than individual liberty.
A brilliant video guys, and a brilliant thesis on the multiple ideologies/philosophies of the Star Wars peoples and the correlation with the problems inherent in real world politics, which unfortunately includes it's sometimes gruesome outcomes.
15:19 i mean most of the sapient biomass of the Galaxy is in the human-dominated Core, colonies and Inner Rim. Also, Last I remember Alderaan's Senate seat was that of the Alderaan SECTOR, its just that the Alderaan planet has enough prestige that you generally got representatives appointed by the Alderaanian planetary government.
If I were a Jedi Knight or Jedi Master during the Clone Wars, I wouldn’t want myself and possibly my Padawan to participate in the War.
Many of them understood it the duty of a Jedi to protect the Republic and its people, and it's not hard to see how a lot of them would see a connection there. We, here on Earth, raised by our parents, don't have the same thought processes and ideological training that a Jedi Master would have raised in the Temple their entire lives
@@cloudmaster182Yeah, but you don't have to be raised a given way to know that certain things are wrong.
My faith in in the Jedi wouldn't have survived the first time I saw them ignore slavery.
@hideousruin and again, that's an argument you're making thru your lens of being here on earth and seeing all the star wars movies, knowing how the story ends. This is literally like saying "if another country attacked my home I wouldn't defend my own country bc war is wrong" to the Jedi, they were defending their civilization from a genuine threat in the sith. The alternative was to sit back and watch the Sith take over thousands of planets, kill and enslave millions of people and do nothing about it? Nah. People would've hated the Jedi even more if they did that
Fighting in the clone war was the wrong move, but there were so many layers of manipulation they genuinely were put into a position where they had no choice but to participate. You speak this way bc you know it was all a ruse by the Sith, again bc you've seen the movies and all the shows, yet somehow you've missed the pointof all of it lol
You know how many wars were started at least in legends bc of one rogue jedi taking the law into their own hands? Blowing things up, escalating, making things worse? I'm not saying you're wrong for that opinion, but it does show you're like not taking the full picture into account
@cloudmaster182 i disagree with fighting in the clone wars to be wrong
The jedi's flaw was that they refused to allow different expressions of force power, and they became an arm of an indifferent state.
The republic was shown as a liberal docracy, that refused to defend itself from antidemocratic political forces internally. Their belief in the system itself instead of the people in it left people across the galaxy vunerable and divided, making the empire possible
Also keeping in mind your real political beliefs, and those of the creators will change what you think went wrong with the clone wars
I think the pluralism including any form of capitalistic or authoritarian organisation was the problem but i dont like capitalism and am an antiauthoritarian so that makes sense
3:25 The Cheese Ascendancy Strikes Again!!!
Cmon man! Do you even watch these prior to release??
fool me once, shame on me.
fool me twice, ... okay one more chance.
(but only bc im setting up a '3 Strikes You're Out' joke)
Glory the CIS!
Loving these long form videos
HOLY SHIT. You just propelled yourself from nerds who love to talk about lore to FULL BLOWN In-depth political annalist video essayist just like that! Bravo! Also I just wanted to say that UA-cam unsubbed me recently from quite a few channels, yours was included. Resubbed and all that but if you took a hit in analytics it's because UA-cam does purges.
Ideologies are a very complex thing, even someone who supports an evil cause could have a good ideological reason to support it, despite the evil acts done by all factions, the Empire was obviously the worst, many good people supported all these sides for various reasons, because they believed it was the right and good thing to do for the galaxy. And everyone's views are slightly different even when they're all on the same side. And the side or ideology one chooses to follow will also depend on the person, their beliefs, their life experiences, and so on. Me presonally, I make it no secret I am pro-Galactic Republic and by extension the Rebellion to Restore the Republic. Despite its flaws I still support it. And you made a good point on the Jjedi's role in it, trying to reign in the more evil acts of the Republic, I feel that is an important and understated role in any organization, relationship, or whatever. As Yoda learned during season 6 of The Clone Wars, everyone has at least a little darkness inside of them. The important thing is that you're light outweighs it. However, sometimes your own light isn't enough, and that's why you need others who can help keep you grounded and reigned in, like how Padme, Obi-Wan, Ahsoka, Rex, R2 and a few others were that for Anakin, which is why Palpatine wanted to get rid of all of them so there would be no to cover his dark side tendencies. And that's why, despite how it failed to execute it at times, the Republic had the right idea to bring all these different views together to discuss things out to find the best possible outcome, just because you have different views doesn't mean you can't along and work together, I mean I'm pro-Galactic Republic and my friend King Orange is pro-CIS, but we still get along despite that and by having different views we share with each other it allows us to learn from each other and become better. As the Rebels episode where Rex and Kalin joined forces shows us, it's important to find the middle ground.
this is why it’s more useful to discuss “evil” (or more productively, harm) in terms of systems and actions rather than people and their beliefs.
An individualist, personal view of good and evil excuses those who perpetrate, uphold, or tolerate harm without intending to by centering discussions around their unknowable and less-relevant individual beliefs instead of that harm and how to prevent or redress it. Not to mention every “individual’s” beliefs are moved by the systems and culture they inhabit.
A morality that focuses on actions, systems, and their results allows us to discuss the systemic/cultural failures of the Jedi without having to waste time equivocating about whether individual Jedi were “evil,” i.e. they could not bring “peace” to a galaxy they only chose to become involved with in the context of war, and on a more personal level their detachment and emotional repression was not healthy for their treatment of other peoples or the more grievously traumatized among their own order (namely Anakin).
@@bumfricker2487 Yeah, as a whole the Jedi Order did fail the galaxy during the Clone Wars. Of course, sepecific indivdual Jedi didn't fail, it was the Order and others that failed them.
The basis of my current support of the Separatist Alliance came from my views as a kid
I grew up with the OT and while I often like villains better I was bigger Rebel Alliance fan due to their variety of alien species and heroic goals
Then I watched the prequels and I saw the roles reversed: now the insurgents were the bad guys and the government was the good guys. But even then many things captivated me, starting with fairly superficial things like the cool droid designs and Grievous using four lightsabers
As I grew up I slowly realized that the Separatists were basically the Rebels of their time but flawed, more complex, more interesting (this was before Rogue One mind you and even then people like Andor were former separatists)
The final thing that sold me on them however was this: the Republic was truly corrupt and neglectful, hundreds of worlds suffered indifference in exchange of high taxation long before Palpatine started to enact his plan for galactic domination
A single central government cannot fairly lead an entire galaxy's worth of worlds and cultures. The objective of the Confederacy of Independent Systems (ignoring the sith/corporate manipulations that had infected both factions equally) was never to destroy the Galactic Republic but to secede from it, achieve planetary autonomy
Sure there are risks in allowing every planet to rule themselves without a centralized set of laws, but this freedom in my opinion is better than the alternative: a failed single state ruled by nepotism, harboring the seeds of xenophobia and autocracy
"Dooku was right in the end. He knew the Republic was corrupt, that it would collapse and become something worse
He saw it coming: the Galactic Empire"
Very true in many ways. The Separatists were always an interesting faction, in part because it is one of the most politically complex factions within the Star Wars setting, but also because I would argue it went through the largest behind the scenes changes as the Star Wars continuity evolved both through Legends and Canon.
So a friend and I are working on a post rotj timeline for a Star Wars TTRPG game I'm running where the politics make more sense, and this video really just vindicated the both of us lmao, thank you for this. It's a really great video.
a good job. i outright loved the big effort to be neutral (as much as none of us are its the effort thats important) i particularly like your attention to economic systems and how they contribute to the identity of a faction and how centralization is a balancing act where going to far in either direction can be a very bad thing.
Never ask a human supremacist what colour his girlfriend is
I've got a question
Did the destruction of Malachor V free Abeloth because of the wound in the force? If not why couldn't She escape? Thank you love the channel
Especially that the ripple was heard from force sensitive all over the galaxy
This was a very interesting and well-done analysis. I'm also surprised I never before realised Saw is kinda canon's Garm Bel Iblis
Babe come over, Geetsly dropped a video essay on ideology in Star Wars.
Id love to see another video like this with more obscure factions from the EU and Disney canon. Amazing video
1:11:41 had to rewind but um…that’s an interesting imperial walker in the foreground 😂
Yeah, I was about to mention it. It's probably an edit. Looks like someone made a cardboard AT-AT and put their lizard in it. Weird.
Okay, now this is odd. A Star Wars video with Commander Shepard in the thumbnail.
Shepuuurd! You have become an annoyance!
A Herculean effort . Good job
Honestly, I wonder if the title of this video is for Canon fans like me. Sure, the Separatists had multiple good points about the Galactic Republic, but they’re the ones Palpatine manipulates to push the Republic to become the Empire. At the very least, the Separatist Military is as evil as the Empire itself. I actually wouldn’t be shocked if Republic Officers during the Clone Wars took inspiration from their Separatist enemies when they became Imperial Officers. Also, Canon Galactic Republic doesn’t have as dark of a history as its Legends counterpart, though one thing that stays the same between continuities is how the Republic practically hands the Outer Rim to the corporations, only starts to rein them in after Naboo, and clearly doesn’t do enough since they actually tolerate the “neutrality” of the corporations in the Clone Wars despite their forces making up at least a majority of the Separatist Military. Though at least Canon Republic didn’t provide military support to the corporations while Canon Empire sends Stormtroopers and TIE Fighters to help out the Mining Guild, Sienar, and Kuat Drive Yards.
Meh, canon is just sanitized Legends, boring.
canon republic was still the biggest users of mass bombardment of civilians. the republic is just the empire that still placates the jedi when the jedi are present. and even then they sometimes openly do evil things and the jedi ignore it or help out (such as duing cato nemodia where they bomb the hatcheries and nurseries, ie dirrect targeting of children)
...............................is that commander shepard in the thumbnail?
Sure looks like it
Yes
That was a very thoughtful and thorough overview!
You forgot one more important person who was also one of the founders of the Rebel Alliance: Galen Marek! His family crest became the symbol of the Rebellion
Every Evil Empire has a habit of making things worse beforehand, so its people are ready to surrender its freedoms for more security. Palpatine knew this too well, which is why he became Supreme Chancellor. He knew the Empire couldn't just walk in and take over. He had to make things so bad, people would cry praises of joy for a more strict government to take over. He took a Republic that was already bad and dialed the bad to a 20.
Unfortunately, the Empire was too strict and unyielding. Its grip on its planets was too tight and methods, too harsh to say the least. These facts and a military force too generalized and unadaptive led to the eventual decline of the Empire.
To paraphrase Princess Leia, "The greater you tighten your grip, Tarkin, the more star systems will slip through your fingers."
After hearing this video, I cannot helped but wondering what are the things the Third Republic simply restored and what are the things they improved upon to make it better than the days of the Second Republic.
And if the Empire wanted to truly justify its massive Imperial war machine, it needed an actual enemy. You know, like how the Abbasid Caliphate decided to cease the military expansion of the Umayyad Caliphate and pursue annual raids against the Roman Empire instead. So aside from the Battle of Talas and the Conquest of Tarsus, the Abbasid Caliphate never expanded their borders in any directions at all. Rather, the annual raids launched into Anatolia that was ruled by the Roman Empire back then in order to gain loots, slaves and to keep the Roman Empire weakened is the better policy here because the Caliphate has an actual enemy to justify its war machine and to keep the civilians within the Caliphate united under the common threat.
Also, can the planets that seceded survived on their own for long? Assuming that if the secession ended in success, of course. I know that they already have to deal with the pirates like the Black Sun, the Hutts, the Zygerrians, the Pykes and the corporations that were their previous allies that were clearly joined because they wanted to make money. And yes, I also know that they can have the defense pacts can be signed and the treaties get renewed in order to fight them. But what are their chances of victories against one of these money-hungry entities?
like extra galactic invaders? =P
@@isimiel3405 Not actually. Just one of the other galactic polities that located within the same galaxy.
@@lerneanlion considering the republic wasn't helping in their defense it would mean they have greater ability to survive independant. no taxes taken from them to fund the core, all of it can be used locally meaning more credits for defense.
@@matthiuskoenig3378 They have more money and raw materials with themselves but they lacked the way to turn them into the finished products. So they needed to figure this out first without the Republic.
This is a lot better thought out then many other takes on the matter
1:11:36 That's a very big gecko.
“Well built fictional world”
Oh really? Tell me how many stabs with a lightsaber is fatal. Or better yet, how one survives getting incapacitated and falling into a giant hole.
This world was always kinda wonky. Lucas or Disney era.
To be fair, that has to deal with the "mystical" side of Star wars, not the actual politics.
Props to the editor who messed up symbols for various factions. Pretty embarrassing.
galactic senate's biggest problem was acoustics of their chamber
Humanity first.
I love star wars as a setting (the sequel trilogy can kick rocks though, sadly) because the traditional good-guys are exceedingly and dangerously flawed in a number of complex and understandable ways, while the traditional bad-guys are genuinely reasonable on the majority of matters, but its the matters on which they aren't agreeable that are egregious enough to justify the efforts against them.
Safety and security are genuine and important concerns in the galaxy, given the range of unscrupulous criminals and unstable governments abound in reoublic space, and the plentitude exestential threats shown in extended universe material. Shame about the whole 'blowing up populated planets to *make a point* against your enemies', though.
Everyone should have some voice in government, and decentralization towards local government is always a good idea, shame about the prolific corruption and unimpeded mass exploitation, though.
Even the Jedi and Sith are so varied in personal beliefs, methodology, and origin that their cult-like organization and cooperation with or subversion of the republic government genuinely makes sense for their function.
It just works.
Great vid. I learned a lot, and enjoyed it. Thanks! 😊
very cool video 👍
Darth Vader "Now that we liquidated megacorporations and broke up monopolies we can free the slaves and create a strong welfare state that simultaneously encourages investment and personal autonomy"
Palpatine-"Ehh...No."
Darth-"Aww. Well I got a cool suit. Kind of itchy though."
As much as the Jedi got wrong, I find it funny that people attack them for their relationship with the republic. I’m no Jedi lover, but they did the best they could.
People love ragging on them for the plights of the republic but what choice did they have. If they weren’t officially sanctioned by the republic they wouldn’t have any reach within the republic. The only way they could make change is as official agents. Otherwise they would be vigilantes. Guess what, if they are acting without republic sanctions they would be criminals with little to no political power. Take any superhero group and they typically have to allow a government to have power over them. Else they would just be labeled criminals.
I think you guys could create a full curriculum for a full post graduate degree in Star Wars lore
Me after watching an hour and a quarter long video about Star Wars ideological praxis:
I'm not brave enough for politics.
Great video as always, but I have a different opinion on the Megacorps of the CIS. I don't think that libertarian capitalism is what the megacorps wanted. The ideal government for the megacorps is a corporatist government like the Galactic Empire. Libertarian capitalism is not appealing for megacorps. You may be able to destroy your competition more easily, but why wasting money on that, when you can co-operate with a government that destroys your competition through regulation and bureaucracy at the cost of citizens? Ask yourself how the separatist megacorps became that powerful. Most, if not all of them, co-operated with the Republic and gained an unnatural degree of economic power through unequal regulations and other kinds of special treatment. Their definition of "free market" is vastly different to the libertarian concept.
Yes, this is one of the many problems I identified with this video. It may take things the writers put at face value or it may be derived from his own conclusions, but the depiction of political and economic ideologies here is rather poor.
@@waterbloom1213 Politically, Geetslys is very good most of the time, but the economic analysis is based upon already existing conclusions and that's the problem. It is assumed that megacorps love libertarianism, because of a claimed lawlessness in such societies. But no one was ever able to proof it. It remains a theory that a libertarian society will immediatly collapse, because no one ever tried it. But this doesn't stop anyone from claiming these unproved statements. Because parts of this video are based upon these theories, it can't be objective.
Furthermore, you have to ask yourself: If megacorps really love libertarian capitalism, where is all the advertisement in our real world? Have you ever heard that Samsung, Apple or Microsoft ever demanded the dissolution of the government? No. They do not demand a society without governments, because they would lose most of their power without a corrupt regime.
@@ArdysLoreLibrary
I agree. He conflates corporationism and mercantilism with capitalism, classical liberalism or libertarian free markets (which is just a subtype of libertarianism). There is no analysis here on the roles of States and the extent of their intervention in contrast to economic freedoms by institutions and individuals and therefore we cannot conclude correctly for example that the CIS was libertarian, especially not when some of its elements like the Trade Federation had no qualms regarding the blocking of Naboo and seemed to act more like the East India company being willing to use force in an offensive manner.
@waterbloom1213 Not only that, but the CIS, at least by the time of the Clone Wars, can't be libertarian, because it had a government. And if the megacorps were libertarian capitalist, they would have fought the Republic as well as the Separatist Parliament. Not only that, but they would've never taken seats in the senate before the war.
@@waterbloom1213how would the Trade Federation's use of military force make it not libertarian?
interesting titbit: there is a deleted scene in a new hope where the characters complain about the empire nationalising the economy.
The Alsakani views would've been interesting in this video.
Always balance was supposed to be:
Only Light tied to the emotions, and no Dark Side.
This is perfect balance.
Lucas naming General Grievous’ flagship after a SCIENTIFIC FACT he doesn’t like certainly didn’t help.
The alliance / new republic and Luke's jedi order are the best factions , they take the best bits of the old and throw away the bad stuff (or at least try)
For Legends I would agree, Canon definitely not.
Woooaaa he said the A word!!!! Hell yeah!!!!!
Anyone else find it ironic that Palpatine proclaimed the Empire would last for 10,000 years, yet in both Canon and Legends, it didn't even make it past 200 years before fracturing?
Slavery as punishment for crimes is something that will *never* be fully outlawed. Forced labor is simply too profitable and criminals dont have much speaking for them either. *Every* society has some element of forced labor. Usually its limited to prisons and sometimes the workers get payed but the work is still mandatory either way.
Plus, even if the labor isn't technically mandatory, it's still heavily incentivized to the point where it essentially is.
I don't really get the need for "neutrality" when discussing ideology. Because they aren't equal sets of ideals. If an ideology hurts a lot of people and helps only a handful then pretty much everyone is going to hate it unless they are part of that small group that benefits.
Yes liberalism is superior
More like bootlickin..all that libs are,will do anyrhing if the law allows...sad way to live life same people who would of said slavery was fine cause it wasnt against the law@@Jacobp-li9fi
I've been kind of working on something similar to the Republic in my own stories, albeit with an inverted approach in that the central government is an absolute theocratic monarchy; other worlds under the sovereignty are allowed to practice their own form of governments as they please, as it is believed every sentient is fundamentally different in what type of government best suits them. The only exception is they cross a line that directly challenges/threatens the authority and fundamental beliefs of the sovereignty. This still creates conflicts as different species have their own mystical/religious beliefs, and in this setting, there is no doubt demonic dangers are very real(albeit often subtle, taking centuries or millennia to fully take hold of a people), so alternative religions of various aliens may often fall under being a threat to the sovereignty, which divides many and often forces displacement of those unwilling to give up their ways of life, driven from their homes into dangerous areas of space occupied by others who flee as well. This, in turn, is also an invasion of worlds outside of the sovereignty from those running from it, creating a huge barrier-region between this sovereignty and unknown space where it's incredibly dangerous to travel.
In short, I love the idea of different aliens having very different ways of life, different cultural ideals of right and wrong, thus it being total hogwash to expect every sentient being to have the same virtues and ideals of good/evil as each other. The central figures/characters of this sovereignty in my setting aren't human at all, and given their history and genetic disposition, tend to lean into rigid authoritarianism.
“I'm Commander Sheppard and the Republic is the best faction on the Citadel.”
Dieses Video ist super Informativ! Danke dafür
About the republic there was also the issue of “elected senators” being elected non democraticly you now what I am saying
13:00
This is why the Zhor'i of Raez never joined the Republic as they deemed it irresponsible and unreasonable and Zhor'i, especially Zhor'i of Raez hate dealing with anyone who is unreasonable. Do know there are no actual humans. The Zhor'i are presented to us as humans because we would understand them better that way, plus we have Zhor'i in our DNA.
Palpatine sits there and he eats Doritos like a champ
Cool vid bro.😺
It is utterly ironic for the galactic empire, to the point of pathetic, that it championed itself as the very personification of strength, order, and unity. When it advocates the Sith influenced culture of strife both internally and externally. Ensuring that conflicts and wars will never see an end point.
The empire bit made me like Saw Guerra a lot more
I don't think there's been a conflict strictly, 100% over resources without any ideology. We're humans, not Vulcans
Dude please keep making these long form videos
The favored career path in Star Wars? Rogue freelance spacer and part-time smuggler.
I need a summary here. I'm interested in the ideas suggested in the video title, but not at the cost of an hour-and-fourteen. Anyone have a Cliff Notes version they care to share?
In terms of your point about Jabiim nationalism, I can see you're from the Western Cultural sphere if you explicitly felt the need to say that the fictional form of Nationalism is closer to Earth's Anti-Colonialism. As a matter of fact where I'm from that was literally the driving force of Nationalism in the 19th and 20th century. The notion underlining Nationalism was people's rights to self determination and separation from Multi-ethnic Empires (such as the Habsburg/Austro-Hungarian, Russian and Ottoman Empires) where certain nations would get the short end of the stick while the first-class citizens reep the benefits.
Is there a video on the Alliance of Neutral Worlds from the Clone Wars?
The Sith were not the only ones who enjoyed being on top of hierarchies