where I live that just looks like wonderful habitat for critters, varmints and insects and debris, not to mention cupping of boards unless they're back-primed. The theory seems so nice, but imagine what a flicker with a nearby oak tree would create in a single afternoon . . .
I think you bring up a good point, not every assembly is for every environment. If you tried this on the Olympic peninsula, you’d be power washing your whole house once a month or you would have literal, moss and ferns growing out of those gaps. On the other hand, I lived in Nevada for three years, And the clapboard aged beautifully, And I think something like this would look even better.
You use insect screen in both open and closed systems. A lot more screen on the open assembly. You will almost never get cupping with a good rain screen assembly. In fact rain screen is used especially to reduce cupping and drying. It also drastically reduces pressure that would drive moisture into your wall assembly.
@@jackjmaheriiiwhat makes you think moss would grow there? Seems like since water is draining and not stagnating then moss wouldn’t have a chance to grow. A roof is more exposed to rain and has less slope than a wall.
It rains so much there that water doesn’t need to pool for moss to be sustainable. Even steel fence posts attract lichens so unauthorized growth is kind of a given. But some systems are more susceptible than others and anything made of organic materials with thousands of feet of flat and level edges wouldn’t stand a chance.
Love all the knowledge and expertise you willingly share, you are a pillar to Build Science! Would love to see roof peak details (evaporatively transfer mitigation measures) and rain screen on exterior insulated roof with metal cladding! I apologize for the shameless plug for info.LOL
Another open system is shiplap. If your rabbits are 1/16 inch deeper than the thickness of the board, then there will be a 1/8 inch air gap in the overlap. Make the rabbit deeper if you want more air gap. Shiplap is face nailed and a board can be easily removed without affecting the others. Using screws instead of nails makes it even easier to replace a board. And of course face fastenig offers superior holding in windy environments. If worried about bug infiltration, I guess 1/8 in gap would keep out bees and wasps. But it you wanted a bigger gap, maybe you could install fiberglass screen or filter fabric between the furring strips before you put the siding on. Black, of course.
I noticed on the closed system pics that that is the house you used previously on how NOT to do the fir strips and they didn't fix it and are just putting on the siding anyways.
what are your thoughts about insects getting in in the open system? Also, it would be nice to see some time lapse photos of projects you've done and your thoughts about decisions to go one way or another with design/materials/etc. What's up with the dog barking?!
Pretty interesting. I wouldve said it wouldn't work if someone other than SBZ had told me about it. I'm guessing that hefty overhangs help this system perform its best. Also the underlayer must be decently resistant to UV rays from the light that enters the cracks.
I see your rain screen as a “parasol”. This outer layer absorbs (or reflects) all of the radiant solar energy heating the house. Maximizing airflow around and behind it provides a way of dissipating that heat other than by conduction into the walls and finally the house itself. The material used, and the color, matters too. I’d love to hear what a radiant heat transfer engineer thinks about this idea. Maybe there are other factors that could increase this benefit.
Hi Steve, great video! I was wondering if there is an increased risk of damage due to wildfire because of the spacing between the boards in an open joint cladding system? Years ago I was talking to a mill owner and he said that even when using a traditional lap siding system that a board with a rabbeted groove along the bottom edge really helped prevent flames from entering between the overlapped boards. Designing a cladding system with a lot of additional open joints for fire to get through seems counter-intuitive.
I expect the open system is less advisable in wildland urban interfaces due to a need to have noncombustible mesh with openings no larger than 1/8 inch (ICC) ? In my jurisdiction, County of San Diego, I think the interior would need to be constructed of noncombustible materials (metal hat x-section furring / fire-rated gypsum sheathing or similar) even if the siding was noncombustible material.
When you say it doesn't work everywhere what do you mean? I know the country is divided to not 4 main climate zones but do passive homes work everywhere in the country?
A passive house has different requirements to achieve that rating in various parts of the continent. A passive house in Canada will be different from a passive house in Florida.
Ok, but I think I like the closed system better. Less water, and it'll dry out. Not that open is bad, I just don't see any advantage, particularly if you live near bugs.
Great content Steve. I love that you're talking about concepts and designs that I don't see anyone else on UA-cam mentioning.
Thank you - I'll keep it going....
where I live that just looks like wonderful habitat for critters, varmints and insects and debris, not to mention cupping of boards unless they're back-primed. The theory seems so nice, but imagine what a flicker with a nearby oak tree would create in a single afternoon . . .
I think you bring up a good point, not every assembly is for every environment. If you tried this on the Olympic peninsula, you’d be power washing your whole house once a month or you would have literal, moss and ferns growing out of those gaps. On the other hand, I lived in Nevada for three years, And the clapboard aged beautifully, And I think something like this would look even better.
Agreed. We have cheap pine board-and-batten siding (stained) from 1973. It has held up great except for the spots the woodpeckers went after.
You use insect screen in both open and closed systems. A lot more screen on the open assembly. You will almost never get cupping with a good rain screen assembly. In fact rain screen is used especially to reduce cupping and drying. It also drastically reduces pressure that would drive moisture into your wall assembly.
@@jackjmaheriiiwhat makes you think moss would grow there? Seems like since water is draining and not stagnating then moss wouldn’t have a chance to grow. A roof is more exposed to rain and has less slope than a wall.
It rains so much there that water doesn’t need to pool for moss to be sustainable. Even steel fence posts attract lichens so unauthorized growth is kind of a given. But some systems are more susceptible than others and anything made of organic materials with thousands of feet of flat and level edges wouldn’t stand a chance.
Love all the knowledge and expertise you willingly share, you are a pillar to Build Science! Would love to see roof peak details (evaporatively transfer mitigation measures) and rain screen on exterior insulated roof with metal cladding! I apologize for the shameless plug for info.LOL
Thanks for joining in.....
Another open system is shiplap. If your rabbits are 1/16 inch deeper than the thickness of the board, then there will be a 1/8 inch air gap in the overlap. Make the rabbit deeper if you want more air gap. Shiplap is face nailed and a board can be easily removed without affecting the others. Using screws instead of nails makes it even easier to replace a board. And of course face fastenig offers superior holding in windy environments. If worried about bug infiltration, I guess 1/8 in gap would keep out bees and wasps. But it you wanted a bigger gap, maybe you could install fiberglass screen or filter fabric between the furring strips before you put the siding on. Black, of course.
Another great video Steve!
Thanks Bud!!
I noticed on the closed system pics that that is the house you used previously on how NOT to do the fir strips and they didn't fix it and are just putting on the siding anyways.
No they didn't. I told the homeowner GC - he thought it was just fine......
@@stevenbaczekarchitect9431 Please do follow up a few years from now!
Wow...
what are your thoughts about insects getting in in the open system? Also, it would be nice to see some time lapse photos of projects you've done and your thoughts about decisions to go one way or another with design/materials/etc. What's up with the dog barking?!
Pretty interesting. I wouldve said it wouldn't work if someone other than SBZ had told me about it. I'm guessing that hefty overhangs help this system perform its best. Also the underlayer must be decently resistant to UV rays from the light that enters the cracks.
Gotta remember drying trumps wetting......it's basic science
I see your rain screen as a “parasol”. This outer layer absorbs (or reflects) all of the radiant solar energy heating the house. Maximizing airflow around and behind it provides a way of dissipating that heat other than by conduction into the walls and finally the house itself. The material used, and the color, matters too. I’d love to hear what a radiant heat transfer engineer thinks about this idea. Maybe there are other factors that could increase this benefit.
Hi Steve, great video! I was wondering if there is an increased risk of damage due to wildfire because of the spacing between the boards in an open joint cladding system? Years ago I was talking to a mill owner and he said that even when using a traditional lap siding system that a board with a rabbeted groove along the bottom edge really helped prevent flames from entering between the overlapped boards. Designing a cladding system with a lot of additional open joints for fire to get through seems counter-intuitive.
I expect the open system is less advisable in wildland urban interfaces due to a need to have noncombustible mesh with openings no larger than 1/8 inch (ICC) ? In my jurisdiction, County of San Diego, I think the interior would need to be constructed of noncombustible materials (metal hat x-section furring / fire-rated gypsum sheathing or similar) even if the siding was noncombustible material.
Morning coffee with Steve. 😊
Best cup there is lol
Dry / wet aside... the gaps will show any movement / swelling / shrinkage / warpage; something that won't poke you in the eye in a decade or so.
I wish he’d address brick and stone facades over zip!!!
When you say it doesn't work everywhere what do you mean? I know the country is divided to not 4 main climate zones but do passive homes work everywhere in the country?
The heating / cooling cost is a big part of the equation and varies around the country.
A passive house has different requirements to achieve that rating in various parts of the continent. A passive house in Canada will be different from a passive house in Florida.
Give it time, there will be rot at numerous of those 1x3 furring strips and the horizontal boards. Go pull some on the north side of that building.
NOPE, I have been to past projects, not what your thinking.....
I would have thought the same thing about the furring strips but having the air gaps at the top and bottom will allow that wood to dry.
What size of gap are you typically using on open systems. 1/4”?
Ok, but I think I like the closed system better. Less water, and it'll dry out. Not that open is bad, I just don't see any advantage, particularly if you live near bugs.
I’m getting schooled in Baczek architecture. 😅
I just learning like everyone else.....
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