USS Excelsior Missiles! VS USS Churchill - Both Ways - Star Trek Starship Battles
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- Опубліковано 12 вер 2024
- #startrek #starships #startrekbridgecommander
Today we are going to check out a ship Denacity is working on, which will hopefully make it's way into the new Bridge Commander Remastered Unofficial Expansion.
It comes equipped with some rather unique looking Missiles.
How effective will they be against the Churchill Classes shields?
Link To MSR1701's Channel: @MSR-1701
Played from both sides in Star Trek Bridge Commander Remastered UE18.
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That ending was *chefs kiss* the excelsior managed to manually destroy every phaser and torpedo launcher on your Churchill 😂
In the Starfleet Command games, missiles were called "drones." Drones were the primary armament on Mirak ships. Some ships even carried ADD's (anti-drone launchers) to shoot down drones being fired at them. That would be an interesting addition to Bridge Commander.
Mirak, with missiles unfurled!
@@MisterMarin 😂😂😂
@@Throw_Down Denacity is adding in the missiles to the Unofficial Expansion TMP Pack as an homage to SFC/KA, and in BC KM there is some work being done for a Point Defense system (such a system exists, presently it is being reoptimized)
8:07 "I can't lose..."
[loses within the next 2 seconds]
Attaboy. 😛
Klingons welcome death, we humans just die trying. Fear us for we're not even thinking about death!
Given the maritime inspiration for most of Star Trek space combat we can assume that torpedoes are defined as such, and distinguished from a missile because they are propelled the same way a ship is.
In the navy torpedoes and ships both share a mode of propulsion: the underwater screw. In Star Trek we know photon torpedoes use a temporary warp field generated by the launching ship and maintained by a simple warp coil in the photon torpedo casing. A missile on the other hand probably uses some high power impulse engine or other type of thruster. So unlike a torpedo a missile is always a sub-light object, can only be deployed at sub-light engagements, and is probably a lot easier to target then a photon torpedo moving at c is.
Missiles were a thing in Starfleet Command, also known as drones. Their main purpose was to force the enemy ship to shoot them down , wasting precious phaser charges that would otherwise have been meant for the player's ship. The drones however carried warheads and ignoring them would mean getting hit with quite a heavy charge. One tactic involved overwhelming an enemy ship by clustering more drones together than the enemy had tractor beams and phasers to intercept, especially when the enemy ship is damaged and doesn't have enough power left to recharge their phasers efficiently.
Ok who stole the missiles from Space Battleship Yamato and gave them to an Excelsior..?
Here's a weird piece of lore that has never been adequately explored in canon, but I've heard fan explanations that make sense: Shields are to stop energy and deflectors are to slow or stop physical objects. On screen canon you can hear the use of Shields and Deflectors separately in early TOS episodes, and in some of the earliest TNG episodes. Both shows seemed to have dropped the concept as time went on. Perhaps too confusing to explain to the writers, or maybe they thought the audience wasn't capable of understanding, as a lot of TV producer thought through the years.
The best example of this lore is in Star Trek 6, where the Bird of prey was causing physical damage to the Enterprise even when the shields were strong. It seems the energy was dispersed while the physical torpedo caused directional marks on the hull. In one hit, we even saw the torpedo bounce off. Later when the shields collapsed was when the full power of the torpedo was seen by the hull breech.
So it could make sense that while the torpedo has the energy on the outside where the shields foil it, the missile with a warhead could breech the shields and the warhead could damage the hull, perhaps even damaging shield emitters which is why you see a drop in the shield strength. This would make a lot of sense in respect to the use of a weaker and slower missile weapon in the game.
Of course the response would have to be an indirect fire weapon like pulse cannons that shoot the missile down before they hit, and not take too much power from the phaser's offensive capabilities. :)
I have always thought that missiles wold be fantastic, if you packet them with some kind of ionizing gas that would short out the shields. I guess that idea might be a bit nebulous. (I will let myself out before I face the wrath of Retro Badger from that joke.)
🤣🤣
😲Oh my!!! lol. Sulu would have loved to have the missiles too lol. Love the USS Churchill , the style and lights , looks great.. wow. MSR-1701 does amazing work. gosh.. Well missiles must to damage, look at Picard.. Shrike through a ship at them and eeh, Riker through a meteor at the Shrike and oooh ouch, sorry YES! lol. Gosh, The Excelsior had both torpedoes and missiles, wow. 😨Crumbs Admiral. I did not expect that. gosh. yes missiles do help, wow. and the nacelles stayed on lol. Sulu must have welded them lol was a close battle, but once you here Brex freak.. 5 sec later boom eeh. still did good Admiral. love the battle. !😊🖖
My endless line: ‘the sounds for the [missles] are from Sfc’😅 I used to play the ‘drone’ missile ship versions of any class and end up blowing everything away all the time - it seemed to be a meta game thing with the game - and always with max missile damage selected, also making sure to bring a full compliment of ‘scatterpack’ missiles. Photons never seemed to hit unless point blank (there was an ecm element to the gameplay). I suppose as well ‘missiles’ in the form of ‘torpedoes’ were in the early Enterprise series NX-01.
STO, The Lukri missions there is one you can pick a missile launcher and if you use the bridge officer skill for multi torpedos you send out a large swarm of missiles.
They are interesting to use against enemy ships, they are also not weak either.
The Churchill looks like a chunky Belknap.
Or the more recent Intrepid class from Picard S3.
Yes, I remember the old SF Command games with missiles. The only problem with them aside from them being ridiculously slow was a good point defense made them essentially worthless as well as you could "catch" them in a tractor beam too.
I keep forgetting that people don't realize that the Photon and Quantum torpedo's are to be launched after the phasers have taken down, or weakened the shields of enemy ships enough to do damage. I guess the Missiles work the same way, unless they are made with plasma, or some type of other energy that is on the inside of them, or surrounds them to cause more damage.
Here's a fun fact: the NCC-2000 is the only Star Trek ship to be featured on a state flag; it's on the New York state flag.
(Brought to you by Dr Sheldon Cooper and Dr Amy Farrah Fowler present Dr Sheldon Cooper's Fun With Flags)
🤔😳I did not know that thank you gosh.. thought was just in the show.. wow!
Nah. That's there in honor of Stan Lee. 😉
the Churchill look like a transition tos to tmp era ship with that deflector so sort of just pre tmp but post tos somewhere.
I could see missiles having some limited use cases. Pros would be: Lower ship power usage to fire them, can be attached to almost any vessel regardless of design, and still has the ability to damage the enemy if they hit. Some downsides are: Poor speed, poor tracking, poor range, poor shield penetration, poor shield damage, can be easily shot down, fuel and warhead are seperate systems thus lowering efficiency, more mechanical thus lowering reliability, easily deflected (see Enterprise), can accidentally cause friendly fire (see Enterprise), and lastly they are bulky and oversized munitions when compared to their max power/damage output.
I had the Star Fleet - Orion Pirate game, they have many ships with missiles and fighters. I remebered I configured a Yamato class ship as full carrier and another with missile boat. Crazy ships.
In STC Missoles are powerful weapon but you can protect your ships against them, with tractor beams, plus bigger ships had small pulse weapons used only against Missiles.
WOW! =O...... Ty for the video and LLAP!
Close battles are always the best.
The missiles need to be on the Lakota because why the hell not.😂
Not a surprising result since the missile knows where it is at all times.
And my beautiful excelsior for the 2nd ko... Ole gal got an iron jaw. 😂😅
Missiles in StarFleet Command are called Drones, as they were in the original tabletop StarFleet Battles Game. Drones were very useful in those games and more favoured by the Klingons. However they could be countered by phasers in a point defense style. They even had close in Type-3 phasers for anti-drone, anti-fighter work. The best ones being the Gatling Phasers of the Hydrans (edit: these were a 4 shot type 3 Phaser).
now imagine all those hatches on the back of the excelcior opened up like vls tubes on a modern warship and let loose with hundreds of photon/quantum torpedos (dorsal part of the secondary hull)
rip uss churchill if all of those hit it at once
That's a cool version of the Excelsior. Can we see more of it?
Definitely 🖖
Nice Showcase!😅
The Missile-type weapons are an homage to SFC/KA (and Denacity has some....interesting updates for the Klingons, Romulans and....others...😂
Also, Missile weapons do seem to still be effective in Trek, an atomic warhead still caused the TOS Enterprise issues in Balance of Terror, and then there was the Narada and it's Borg Tech enhanced weaponry (going by the tie-in Comic)😅
Great job with this I wish I knew how to make ships for the game. I always found it funny that Torpedoes are essentially semi-active artillery shells in Trek. And yet there are rarely missiles. Which be the same warhead as Torpedoes but longer range, intelligent, and active tracking. In a game context it would be like launching a probe or a small ship that tracks and rams into the target at high speed and also has a warhead. I know in Voyager there was that Cardasian missile.
@@kamenwaticlients I haven't yet learned modeling for designs (on the eventual to-do list), though once you start dabbling, you pick up skills and learn what makes BC tick.😅
@@MSR-1701 any suggestions on where I should start my journey
@@kamenwaticlients get Notepad++ or Visual Code Studio (or any Python Editor) for tinkering with the script files, then take any given ship mod and tinker with it in your install (be it damage values, speed, sfx, projectiles, etx).
Knowing how and why ships work in BC is the first step, and then the sky is the limit😎😅
"This is just... AWWW!"
Sounds like you just lost, there.
The Ferengi Marauders had Missiles as standard.
It's the BCG! usually ran the BCF ny self though.
in the Stellaris Star Trek New Civilizations mod I got missiles (secret tech unlock from merchants) and loaded them up on a Constellation and that was very funny seeing macross coming out of that thing. Missiles are weird in Star Trek, the show is very inconsistent if shielding effectively blocks physical objects or not. Those missiles were a swarm though, not a single launch. So you would have hundreds of missiles out on a ship with a bunch of torpedo hardpoints.
It would be cool if there was an mod for starfleet's museum romulan war
Churchill looks sweet.
Missle excelsior vs Charleston (Federation missile boat)
Yeah the Missile Excelsior beat the Churchill, but that was one of the closest fights I've seen on your channel. And I'm just as curious as you are, what exactly is in those missiles, because normally a Star Trek ship would laugh at anything less powerful than a hydrogen bomb.
Interesting about the Excelsior having missiles. Not sure how I feel about it to be honest. Although it is a cool concept. Interesting how it made a difference and that it beat the Churchill twice.
I'll have to look back at the Roosevelt because I really don't remember what that looks like.
The Roosevelt is much more detailed and nicer looking. It’s on Gamefront. 🖖
today is a good day to die, ramming speed
Please do Yamato/Argo vs Death Star👍👍👍🤩🤩🤩
The missiles are a cute idea. But i think its balance is wrong. The Churchill should have been the Excelsior. Much better looking.
Churchill versus Ambassador
I'd say that's a massive misconception. Photon torpedoes ARE missiles. They're just a more advanced form of missile. Just break it down. They're an independently propelled, guided munitions package, carrying a matter/anti-matter warhead that goes critical either upon or prior to impact. They're not that different from modern day cruise missiles, when you think about it. Their launcher is pretty much a railgun.
Any sci-fi writer who is even only as good to just run a DND game can come up with a reason to use them and a difference. Even among missiles launched from ships in real life there are multiple different versions and types that all do different things. Who knows. Maybe the propulsion or launcher prevents different types of matter or explosive from being used. And if a Star Trek writer wants that to be the case then it is so. You just need a basic imagination.
Churchill looks linke a TMP Ambassidor
Ambassador
What are people using to make and create new ships for bridge Commander
What's the difference between a missle and a photon? Very little, if anything
Photon Torpedoes have antimatter warheads.
We need Bridge Commander on console
is the Churchill meant to be the test bed ship the the Ambassador Class? because its shape kind of looks like a mix between the Excelsoir and the Ambassador.
That's a very good theory. The version in Kobyashimaru has more detailing and it certainly looks like an experimental ship 🖖
Can the Delta Flyer beat a Nova Class
I've always wondered. Why cant phasers/disruptors be used as point defense against photon torpedoes? Surely the energy of a phaser/disruptor could damage it enough or just outright cause the matter-antimatter containment of the torpedo to fail.. I dont ever remember the lore explaining why it's not used. Ideas???
Much like Riker had Picard do with the Titans phasers with that photon torpedo against the Shrike
Proximity blast might have a role in a number of military applications. The trick is timing. You'd have to constantly reconfigure the banks to achieve the desired results, but torpedoes travel at speeds that rival and exceed ships at impulse. Perhaps that is why Titan-A had dual banks and column arrays. Each type preset for a default duty.
@@Euripides_Panz That's a very good point... I often figured a dedicated fore or aft mount could be used for anti-Torpedo much like CWIS is used in naval ships
For missile. That way it wouldn't interfere with primary weapons tracking and firing
@cesarespinozaspain
Secondary armaments tend to suggest warships, exclusively, which is what Rod didn't want. The Dominion War themes and Picard era ships seem to be bringing back a more overt purpose in even some of the newer vessels supposedly classified as explorer-types. The narrative is somewhat contradicting. There is exploration, multiple humanitarian efforts, but then on the other hand, breakdowns in diplomatic efforts, vengeful rivals and old enemies looking at the Federation as aloof, indifferent, and worse. If there is another show set in the early 25th century, more warship themes could be common. Maybe the next thing will be MIRV-inspired warheads and point-defense batteries to counter them.
I've only seen point defense used in a couple of anime, and if memory serves, both ships had thick armor but didn't have combat-rated energy shields. So it may be a gap technology, that only gets developed in those circumstances. And it never happened in the Star Trek universe, because Starfleet jumped directly from polarized hull plating, to energy shields, as fast as they did.
Why do people keep modding missiles into Trek?
Missiles move at insignificant speeds... meaning they are slow and usually, underpowered.
Photon torpedoes are not classical missiles. They are antimatter warheads with a blast zone of 300 km (which can be achieved with 27GT explosion - at least in the 24th century), AND they have a range of 3.5 million km.
In order to traverse that kind of a distance, they need to be moving at significant fraction of light speed... at 50% to 75% of c... and I think in the 24th century they move at 75% c.
At 75% c, they'd traverse a distance of 3.5 million km in 15.5 seconds.
Granted, for the 23rd century, photons likely have a much lower range and explosive yield... but they still move at significant fraction of C... 25% to 50% c at least.
Point being, photon torpedoes are supposed to be fast, deadly and very difficult to take down with point defence systems.
Missiles are in a category well below photons.
Remember the NX-01 and its spatial torpedoes and how ineffective they were in most use cases? Think that when it comes to missiles.
'We shall fight in France, we shall fight on the seas and oceans, we shall fight on the beaches, we shall fight on the landing grounds, We shall never surrender' Is this why the Churchill is so named? 🖖
Very possible! The other Churchill class is named the USS Roosevelt 🖖
Wouldn't proximity phasers (balance of terror, the wrath of khan reliant roll bar hardpoint) be especially effective against small targets?
The Yellow squares on top of the cannons?
@@Euripides_Panz in the balance of terror enterprise fires phasers that detonate similar to depth charges in ww2 anti sub warfare. On one of these youtube blogs somebody describes these as "proximity phasers" . He also mentions that in wrath of khan the phasers fired by the reliant from the outer corners of the rollbar? Appendage are of this proximity type. Balance of terror predated th introduction of photon torpedoes and "proximity " detonation of a beam weapon required some suspension of belief. This was just some artistic license taken by the show creaters to provide a 23rd century equivalent to a depth charge.
Missiles should make literally zero impact on a Trek battle.
Edit: I wanna elaborate on this point. As seen in this very video, missiles are slower than torps. It makes sense that they would be, too, because they're just....missiles. Just regular missiles. If there wasn't something different about them compared to torps, they would just be torpedoes. Unless you make it a really big missile, aiming to do more damage than a torp through sheer excess, but these aren't. They seem about the same size as the torpedoes. So what do they do actually? Do they have a more powerful explosive in them than a photon torpedo? If so, why not put that same payload into a torpedo instead of antimatter? That doesn't make sense. So at best these missiles also use antimatter, which means they would only do as much damage as a torp. Which just makes them slow torpedoes. Do they use different launchers, allowing for greater spam potential? If so, why not just put more torp launchers there instead? Nothing about them works logistically, even if they do look cool.
*looks at the Narada* 😂😂😂
So shields are a solid matter that is replicated and projected around the ship, replicators do have limits based on energy consumption which can be worn down to depletion by matter or energy. So regular missles are no less effective than energy weapons.
The payload on the missile might not go well with torpedoes for any number of reasons. Any explanation is up to your imagination because torpedoes are up to your imagination to begin with. I imagine that they work well and they can carry a larger payload than torpedos because the propulsion of the missile is smaller and the torpedos phasic intermix capacitor causes quantum issues with the hypermatter that is used as the missile payload. See, literally make it the fuck up like the writers do. This isn't real life. They are cool, so they can be written in and some writer can come up with a reason better thought out than my adlib.
Are the missiles supposed to be an homage to starfleet command?
From what I’ve heard, yes. I think it’s great to see in Bridge Commander. There are also some Klingon Ships with them included 🖖
WHY does that Churchill have picatinny rails for a rifle on their warp nacelles for ?
@@michaelernst3731 probably to mount red dot starfleet optics on it
@@cesarespinozaspain After I posted that, I thought on maybe a M-203, RPG-7, Hydra rocket pods aswell as a PEC-15 or optics.
the ship is a hideous abomination that's why lol
Один из этих кораблей как я понял уже есть а игре
Fun fact: Missiles are 100% useless in space because there is no air or gravity for the fins to direct the missile with.
Though, this also applies to literally every other sci-fi space battle where ships zoom in and do the kind of cornering that would make professional drifters envious.
irrelevant you can use a vectored thrust you don't need fins to control a missile
They would most likely have vector thrusters to facilitate a means of steering. The ships already have them. For a great example of how they would be used, watch any dog fight scene from the Battlestar Galactica reboot ....
As of the 20th century, humans began launching rockets into space to get things into space. Missiles are rockets. Please do not apply to the Vulcan science academy.
Why does Delta Flyer carry "photonic missiles?"
@@jonsouth1545 Vectored thrust doesn't work that way. Yes, it angles the output of the engine in other directions, but it still requires the vehicle in which it is apart of to steer with wind resistance against the wings.
In space, there is literally nothing pushing back against the vehicle, that's why vehicles like the shuttle and other similar ships have multiple thrusters all over the ship to steer. And actually, "steer" is the wrong word altogether, you're guiding the ship where it needs to go.
If the transporter can lock on to a human sized object 100,000 km away, shouldn't phasers be able to lock on to similar size target at lesser ranges. Its same reason star fighters don't work in th star trek universe. The weapons are just that accurate.
Good point, but most transporter targets don't try to evade being transported. Fighters which use something like cloaking devices/sensor counter measures to reduce weapon accuracy alongside speed and evasion could confuse guidance systems. Also, as we see the marquis do, swarm tactics at close range make it hard for a large starship to pick off individual fighters. However, you're probably right that if used improperly like being deployed at extreme range, fighters would be useless.
@@intrepidgamer7942 your much more versed in trek tech than I, I mentioned the distance because accuracy usually decreases the farther away the target is.
Ther was a computer game back in 2000 called star fleet battles, that featured both
Ecm and eccm aspects to starship combat.
That combined with cloaking technology would probably make star fighter's a viable tactic. Thank you for pointing this out.
@EdwardCarey-pf3ho Believe me this is pretty much just what venom geek said in his video about fighters in trek, but personally I like his headcannon. I've always wanted to get into starfleet battles more.
@EdwardCarey-pf3ho Good point on the accuracy though, given phasers etc. seem to be near light speed weapons you'd expect them to be undodgeable at close range.
Transporter locks are notoriously easy to spoof with the right techniques. Speed of weapons and Defenses has to be coupled with light speed or FTL sensors, which might also be spoofed. Then, there are other factors brought up in dialogue. Quantum torpedoes use image recognition for targeting and tracking. What do standard targeting sensors use? The Breen rapid and unpredictable maneuvering at times caused problems where it was stated "unable to lock weapons." If a large attack ship can evade a warship like Defiant, shouldn't be possible a small attack craft not on a strafing run might have a chance of evading even in ideal conditions for the defender?
Weird
everybody here already knows that missiles wldnt leave a trail in space that only happens in atmosphere if anything it wld look like photon torpedoes but with acceleration rather than a fixed speed
If comets can leave a trail missiles can depending on how it's being propelled.