alright just so people know, from now on at this point if you want to write an angry comment pointing out why I’m wrong, don’t bother since I don’t have time to read essays of comments so I’m just gonna ignore those. for context the main reason why I decided to make this video was because my buddies constantly kept asking me why I don’t like Gen II and I decided hey it’ll be better to just make a video rather than give the same speech over again. I’ll post my response to what I think will be common critiques about my arguments: other Generations having flaws, some of which are even similar to ones mentioned in this video: yes, that’s absolutely true, nothing in this franchise is perfect. however because this is a video about Generation II I won’t be discussing others in this one otherwise that’ll be a video about what I dislike about each gen, which could be a future video. or if some problem exists in other generations, I probably put it down here cause imo it’s the most ridiculous in II Kanto having a major presence in Johto isn’t bad: that’s mostly an opinion thing, but you’d be having a hard time convincing me that the games wouldn’t have been even better if Johto Pokémon got their proper representation. thank you for understanding and have a good day EDIT: I meant read not write LOL
@@JIMP2024the new Pokémon were all finished before kanto was even a full region. at that point in development, it was a large city and not the full region. more likely what happened is that they wanted the new additions to feel special in some way, so they pushed them to the post game
I always say that if the new mons hidden in Kanto were at least sudolegendary level then it would be a cool idea have 1 or 2 of them in Kanto, but when it's unusable trash that no gym leader for that type even has on their team in the Kanto region it's just sad. I think a few gens have 1 or 2 post game exclusive pokemon but they are always either legendaries or the like so it isn't being new and post-game that is the real problem here.
As long as they gave me jynx (nobody likes her sure but she is LEGIT OP) I have no problem since she outspeeds and one shots Dragonite and sends Lance all the way back to kanto And Piloswine sucks I think
I like the way Black 2 and White 2 handled the routes east of Castelia City. In the original games Pokemon there were anywhere from level 2 to 25, but because you can access these parts only after you defeat Iris in the sequels, the Pokemon there are more appropriately leveled in the 50s and 60s
You forgot the fact there is no Move Relearner in the games proper. The only way to relearn a move back in Gen 2 was to have an N64, a Transfer Pak, and Pokemon Stadium 2, and then you have to beat the Elite Four and Champion of Gym Leader Castle with a team solely comprised of Pokemon from your GB game via Transfer Pak. And after that, you only get to relearn ONE move for ONE Pokemon at a time. If you want to relearn another move, you would have to beat the E4/Champ again.
Bad level curve, some subpar pokemon, I totally feel you. As R/B/Y sequels, they did great. Art direction felt more "rural, low-tech Japan". But so much of this video has the benefit of hindsight. "Generations" weren't even a pattern, Johto was seen as "Pokemon DLC", and for kids playing Gold/Silver, just having a couple of new moves and sprites would have justified another game cartridge. Highly recommend checking out SmithPlaysPokemon's videos on gen 2, they represent the issues very well.
Worst thing is that they didn't use Falkner's ANIME team that was Hoothoot DODRIO and Fat Pidgeot I mean imagine that the first gym leader is UNBEATABLE up until later on Kinda like this Norman from gen 3 but I want them to make you so you can challenge falkner any time you want unlike Norman who can be challenged only fifth I think 😂😂
To me, Gen 2 is the absolute pinnacle of Pokémon. Back then there was no definition of "generations" like today, and people weren't tired of Kanto and definitely not tired of first gen pokemon. I thought it was actually great how they mixed old and new pokémon in a way where it felt familiar for 1st genners, yet felt new and mysterious enough to make people curious and keep exploring. The amount of stuff they manage to cram in a 1.5MB cartridge is mind blowing, sure there were bugs in the game, like how the new pokéballs didn't work like they were supposed to (but still much better coded and less buggy than Gen 1). These were games intended for loooong play sessions, they expected you to come back at least twice a day, every day, to play. In today's world where everything is instantaneous, people have little time/short attention spans, it's almost unbearable to play a game like this. But I like it a lot, it really felt like a pokemon journey of your own, and the world felt like a world not like a game. The closest any other game came to have a world so full of stuff to do was Gen 5, another gen I like a lot! Not even the remakes (HG SS) got all the little details correctly, you see, Gen 2 was the introduction of Held Items, and Night and Day cycles. -For held items, your starter pokémon is helding a Berry from the get go, that way, if you don't know what it is or how it works, you'll find out in the first wild battles when your pokémon recovers HP while battling a pidgey or something. IF you happen to be a seasoned trainer and know about the whole mechanics of the game, you can take that berry and save it for the sick Miltank quest, for example. The remakes forgot to include the held berry, really a shame. -For night and day cycle, as I said, GSC aimed to have a world that seemed alive, so they made nocturnal and diurnal pokemon that only showed up during Night and Day, respectively. Everybody knows that. HOWEVER, if you used Headbutt on a tree, let's say, during the night - there's a chance a wild DIURNAL pokémon could appear, but sleeping! Similarly, using headbutt during the DAY could make a NOCTURNAL pokémon appear, also sleeping! This meant that diurnal pokémon didn't just disappear during the night, they just when to the trees to sleep! (same with nocturnal pokémon). This tiny little mechanic went completely missing on the remakes, it's so subtle, but at the same time so brilliant, I was baffled when I found the remakes didn't have this feature! I could, literally, spend the next 2 days talking about how fucking *amazing* Gen2 is. Battle animations, Mystery Gift, Held Items, Berries, Pokérus, Shinny Pokémon, new Pokéballs, new evolutions and pre-evolutions for old pokémon, Two new Pokémon Types, Breeding, Battle Tower, Night and Day Cycle, Days of the Week events cycle, first Gen with true online connectivity (in Japan), Bedroom decoration (which you could see in 3D in Stadium 2), Gold/Silver compatible with all 3 generations of Gameboy (just imagine if you could insert Sun and Moon in a Nintendo DS or Nintendo Switch and it just worked), Time Machine (trade pokémon with previous Gen), Cellphone allows you to have rematches and much more, Two regions/16 Gyms, connectivity with Pokémon Pikachu 2 (more advanced than a Pokéwalker), and so on....... but you get the idea. 😁
Reminder that to this day, people (like me) thought Slugma, Skarmory and Natu were from Hoenn, due to how bad a hand they got in their introduction generation. Heck, I know some who thought Murkrow, Misdreavus, Aipom and Yanma were from SINNOH
Revisiting these games, it's really apparent how much Kanto functions as a really shallow boss rush that cuts out a lot of the original charm. I understand it's a technological feat to have even managed to get what we got onto a singular cartridge, but looking back, Gold and Silver's Kanto feels...empty.
2:17 90 base speed in gen 2 is "so slow?" Sorry but no, 90 base speed in gen 2 is literally somewhat fast. And in general, gen 2 Pokemon are not nearly as bad and unusable as you make them out to be in the context of the game itself, there is no powercreep from later gens and the general power level is much lower, so even mons like Jumpluff and Dunsparce are perfectly viable in singleplayer. 5:38 Excuse me? "Forcing you to grind"? You feel the need to grind to beat singleplayer Pokemon? I won't address the rest of the video but fundamentally, you cannot call gen 2 the worst when SwSh, BDSP and so on exists. I'm not even saying gen 2 is "good", but Pokemon gets a lot worse than this.
Points heard and understood.. but calling this generation the worst is blasphemy.. especially when Diamond and Pearl exist with their 5 fire Pokemon and slow ass animations 😂
Diamond and Pearl definitely the most overrated games for sure! but Platinum more than makes up for the travesty of DP to make Gen IV not the worst as tbh Platinum is a top 5 mainline series game of all time imho
@@DahongLuke I'm actually playing Plat for the first time rn on an emulator lol I didn't care to give it a chance after I played Diamond. Gen 2 is my favorite because those were the ones because I grew up on Gen 1-2 and yes going back to Kanto was a major role in that. Gen 3 is probably the overall best games but 2 is just my gives me my nostalgia hit. Flawed as it was.
I know you’re only taking about g/s/c but I want to say that hgss didn’t improve on a lot that gen 2 had, wild pokemon levels are still the same, gym leaders have the same teams as they did in the originals a lot of Johto Pokemon are still in the post game (Houndour, Slugma etc) although you can find these Pokemon in the newly added safari zone, a lot of Pokemon are just as bad as they were in the originals, the level jump from Blue to Red still exists and many other things that were not changed.
While the safari zone made some encounters available early on, setting it up correctly is a huge time sink considering you have to wait *in-game hours* to unlock features that might be necessary to get certain encounters, and then you have to manually modify the terrains. That, and making the box legendary encounter mandatory, makes GSC's bad pacing even worse in HGSS. Horrendously overrated games but nostalgia gets the best of many to an unreasonable degree
Not to mention the whole Gym Leader rematch system was so convoluted cause you had to find the leaders on a specific day of the week during a specific time frame and then had to remember that you could only call for a rematch during a specific day and time frame too.
@@soulkibble1466 yeah it was really annoying getting the numbers of Gym Leaders, the worst being Blue, where you have to talk to his sister everyday and have a Pokemon massaged then and only then would she give you his number.
paid shill for the newer slop generations with billions of glitches, poorly-constructed teams, easy gameplay, bad music, and terrible dialogue, made by a company that actively despises its customers
The criticism of the Gen 2 Pokémon not being presented front and center makes it look bad by the standards of most games that came after it starting with Gen 3 how most Pokémon gym leaders had were new and those you encountered in the wild were mostly new, it makes more sense if you look at if from the perspective of what they were going for with Gen 2 and how you’re discovering new Pokémon species that are hidden so gym leaders have a bunch of gen 2 Mons and encountering them everywhere would’ve killed that narrative. I think you’re looking at these games from a competitive online game perspective rather than an RPG adventure to immerse yourself in like the devs intended. As far as the level curve it’s consistent with Gen 1 areas level design but forgets to use logic when thinking of what level the gym leaders are, as if Faulkner having level 9 Pokémon would be a challenge for your average trainer.
I love Gen 2 having grown up on it, but I won't deny that there are a lot of glaring problems and archaic choices in the game that weren't really addressed even in the remakes such as the level caps and the sheer lack of Gen 2 mons in the region so that you could have a team of Gen2 mons. Hell, I'd love to have Heracross but I never knee you had to headbutt trees to find him.
yea, that's why wen 3rd Gen hit n pokemons fad popularity nosedived. after Gold/Sliver u never heard of anything Pokémon again. g/s WAS pokemon at the height of its popularity.
My only problems with Gen 2 are the low levels for many trainer teams and limited movepools. The best example of Gen 2 relying too much on Gen 1 was the decision to remove the Rock Slide TM. Do you want your Golem or Rhydon to learn Rock Slide? Unless you trade them back to a Gen 1 game and then trade them back to Gen 2, Rock Slide is an egg move for Geodude and Rhyhorn in GSC. Instead of keeping the Rock Slide TM, they decided to change TM 48 to Fire Punch and make Defense Curl a TM. Everyone talks about GSC locking some Gen 2 Pokémon to Kanto. I used to think that was a problem but not anymore. GSC Kanto feels more like the last third of the game rather than the post game. It did not take that long for Houndoom to catch up to the rest of my team when I played Pokémon Crystal last year. Johto does not allow the player to train a full team of six Pokémon because it is only two thirds of the game. I took advantage of the Pokégear trainer rematches instead of grinding on wild Pokémon.
I agree those stories were the best in the series. I just don’t think Pokémon stories are amazing in a vacuum, but those (especially Gen V) exceeded my expectations a lot and it’s a big reason why Gen V is my favorite among the games
Hate to be that person but this video is just the same regurgitated point of view that has already been made. If you make videos like this you should do some research and try to approach with original ideas.
7:37Because he has to be the supreme coach, the former champion and protagonist. Furthermore, you find him randomly on a mountain while you explore, and despite the difference in level the battle is manageable without having to do a lot of training
for some context on gen 2’s development: it wasn’t as rushed as you seem to think. it was delayed, yes, but it certainly wasn’t something they were rushing from the beginning. I also think the high levels of red and the imbalance of the last 3 johto gyms is fine, as it encourages the use of strategy over grinding, which I imagine is why the wild Pokémon are so underleveled, it’s to prevent that. that’s why I actually like the level spike, as it’s more engaging and fun to be forced to strategize with your team rather than just slap together some Pokémon and just sweeping. of course the johto gyms aren’t very difficult for that, but I think the kanto gyms do encourage it a small amount, and red does especially. as well, a Pokémon game is about much more than battling, and elements like atmosphere and world building were done incredibly well by gen 2 with stuff like a day/night cycle, breeding, and the ruins of alph. good video tho! not trying to yell at you for being wrong or whatever, just sharing my own thoughts
breeding definitely great change i agree, but not sure if i understand what you mean by higher levels on the NPCs requiring strategy, since if you allow items you just can keep spamming potions revives etc in that scenario which imo isn’t much of a strategy on top of that if I play using Hardcore Nuzlocke rules I can’t use items so grinding to the level cap is pretty much necessary so that I don’t wipe
@@DahongLuke to be fair hardcore nuslockes are an entirely fan made optional challenge. I don't blame the devs with not designing the game to fit an entirely fanmade optional challenge.
@@randomprotag9329 I dont do nuzlockes and i can agree with youtubers who did nuzlocks in the past. Being a speedrunner, a nuzlocker or whatever doesnt mean they cant speak objectively.
Still not convinced this generation wasn’t the peak of Pokémon. But you dislike these games just wait until you play the remakes! Or try, rather. They’re ridiculously unplayable.
Im going to expand with an edit when I get the time, but most of your issues are "i had a bad time as a nuzlocker and now I hate the game". Thats a skill issue and also NOT how these games were intended to be played. Of every game in the series, this one encourages a more lax day to day playstyle that you are very much rewarded with. Saying this game was rushed is erroneous because it started development 4 years before it was released, and delayed twice. The developers put their blood seat and tears to make these the final ultimate pokemon version. Though they are not perfect, it's a spit in the face of the developers to say they were lazy or rushed it. You did nothing to stir the conversation of gen 2, other than relay points that everyone already knows or has explained in much more depth than "this is dumb, i don't like it". I really don't like to post comments like this bc i hope you're a wonderful person, but this video was rushed, inflammatory, and click bait. I hope more thought can go into the next one. Your a hardcore nuzlock player, so REALLY go into that perspective! I wouldve loved a new view of these games
It should say something that Johto has so many ROMhacks and videos about "fixing"/improving it compared to other regions. Kalos is similarly underbaked and while it does have a sizable number of people pointing our its numerous flaws, it's still not as commonly fixed as Johto (though granted a big part of that is because 3DS hacking is not as easy as GBC hacking, but still; and even then, there are still way more videos about Johto than Kalos in that regard).
7:35 YES! I faced him with my full lvl 63 team. Ngl it wasn't as hard as it should have been, but still a bit challenging. My team was, at the time: Feraligathr. Honchkrow. Yanmega. Lanturn. Magcargo. Ursaring. I now have Sceptile instead of Ursaring (you get one of the Hoenn starters as a gift from Steven after beating Red)
It's a different game meant for a different audience. If you don't like it, it's fine you can play Gen 3+, no need to pile on and slander Gen 2. I know UA-cam feeds off "engagement" so controversial topics really gets clicks but this is just ridiculous.
What's ridiculous is to imply that people aren't allowed to express positive or negative opinions about whatever topics they want. If YOU don't like it, you can always click off and hit do not recommend. I think you know Gen 2 is bad anyway, that's why your defense of it is so weak. Nostalgia sure is one hell of a drug.
I think a lot of Gen 2 would have been better if they just didnt include Kanto. It would have forced them to include everything before the e4 rather then trying to 'save' content for Kanto, and probably would have allowed them to scale the E4 up to the 60s rather then 50s (with approprite scaling for the later gyms). This way, all Johto pokemon are actually in Johto, all the evolution stones must be in Johto (no more having to beat the elite 4 with a growlithe) and your pokemon should be getting their best moves in time for what is suppose to be the climax of your game (because it doesnt matter if its a hardcore nuzlocke or a casual playthrough, having to wait till lv60 to get flamethrower when the E4 caps at 50 is just a garbage feeling). Important TMs is another gameplay aspect that suffers because they need content for Kanto. Moves like steel wing, zap cannon, psychic etc would all make many pokemon much more intetesting to use in both a casual playthrough and a nuzlocke challange, but they're unavailable until you're deep into Kanto. Kanto's very existance just destroys the pace and world building of Johto. Kanto in gen 2 exist at the expense of Johto
This isn’t just having similar opinions, this is straight up word-for-word plagiarism in your complaints and how you describe some of these Pokemon and problems. Word for word ua-cam.com/video/75RibBHgJHQ/v-deo.htmlsi=7qmrTs1qK8yvoK6Z
@@ZerryBerrytheSpaceRaccoon they didn't save the original's in any way whatsoever though. At best, they made things prettier and maybe feel a bit more complete. At worst, they ruined things that make playing through the games that much more rough
On the subject of locking certain Johto pokemon to postgame, here's a couple of gen 1 pokemon that also would have been nice to have earlier: Cubone Diglett (fast and arguably OP in the maingame with earthquake, but it's frail so it evens out.) Pikachu (There are almost no new Electric types, especially with the lack of Mareep in Crystal.) Electabuzz (same as above). Kangaskhan (you already have Tauros, so why not) Mr. Mime Also why don't we get any fossils? Not even one?
I've played every gen prior to 8 but refuse to pay more money for the same game engine with more bugs, less mons, less moves, and marketing lies. But all of those negatives surrounding gen 8 and 9 doesn't make gen 2 any better. In order from worst to best in my mind it must be: 2, 8, 9, 1, 5, 4, 3, 6, 7. And the only reason gen 7 is at the top is becuase it has all the previous gens mons and gimics instead of cutting out content becuase they couldn't be arsed to make a new gimmic that didn't clash with a past one.
I remember wen these games came out, I was a kid. the hype behind g/s games was immense. the pokemon designs are some of the best they ever been. which u can't say for later generations. alot of em look like neopets and nowaways like literally anything can be a pokemon. like that apple pokemon that evoles into apple pie. 😂 good lord.
@@CurtisJeffries-cd5vu Its nto the pokemon designs, its mainly because how terrible the gameplay is now, the insane technical glitches and bugs, the lack of care or effort, and no landmarks or locations making towns stand out.
I'm playing through each Pokemon game for the first time now and even though I think Johto has some of the best Pokemon designs in terms of their look. Imo there isn't a single miss they all look great. I was INCREDIBLY frustrated with my first playthrough of Crystal as there were so many Pokemon I wanted to train and was absolutely blown away by how few new ones there were. I'm also trying to only use new Pokemon introduced in that game so by the end my team was mostly early game pokemon just because there's so few new ones. I didn't even run into most Johto Pokemon. Like I think overall Crystal is better than Red in terms of its music and graphics and stuff but the main reason I play is for the Pokemon and they just totally dropped the ball on giving that to me. It's a shame. I just beat Emerald for the first time and had a much better time finding new Pokemon to collect there!
You only talk abt the bad. Let's talk about the good Considering its time, it has the best upgrade pokemon have ever had. Johto was very vast not to mention after you beat the game, you'll get a new map of kanto and collect 8 new badges and we also get the best or if not one of the best final fight with red that we didn't expect as a kid or first time players. Let's talk about the upgrades. Crystal was the first time we see pokemon move after encounter Addition of day and night. Pokegear that lets you battle trainers again while their pokemon levels up too Held items. Some also evolves while holding certain items when traded or met certain conditions. Poke egg you know the rest. Pre evolution of some pokemon like pikachu/electabuzz New pokeballs. Though the effect somehow isn't the same now, the apricorn balls was like the prototype. Hidden move boosts. Yes it started here. Like when you use defense curl it powers up rollout or when pokemon use minimize, stomp move power is doubled same as twister/gust on fly etc Battle tower. Almost same as battle frontier lol Fighting type became good. Addition of dark and steel type and other type advantages. Shiny. I know there's shiny pokemon on gen 1 but gen 2 was the time most of us saw one and got one. Hardest pokemon gym?? There's maybe some things i missed but gen 2 isn't as bad as some gen (which i won't say) most of the things i've said are still used in the game up till now. and if you're gonna ask me, that's awesome considering its time.
I definitely agree that GSC has a lot of issues. Personally I still like it, but damn a lot of things suck about it. I've also been doing every single game in the series back to back this year to replay and have them fresh in my memory, or a new experience for some, and I have got to say that I think HGSS are the worst games and remakes in the series instead, because a lot of the points you made here are still present there. Like what?? Level curve? Still there and even worse since it's on the gen 4 style so grinding is even slower than the original games. Johto pokemon not in Johto? There idea of fixing it was putting them in the pokewalker instead of actually fixing the game itself. If Scarlet/Violet locked QoL features behind a gimmick outside the main game people would complain, and HGSS deserves that critique as well. Phanphy was available in route 46 in crystal at like 5%, and is removed from there in HGSS?? Even less Johto mon, thanks bro. They extend the Eusine & Suicune story into Kanto for very little change, isnt even interesting, doesnt give Eusine a second fight with a better team, and again another Johto mon you cant use in your main playthrough because now you have to wait until Kanto to catch it. Definitely has some fixes, but the fact it still has some of the big issues that could have easily been fixed is insulting. "Best remake" and it can't even remove issues from 7-10 years before it.
Definitely agree with the points! I would've also loved to maybe see a Dark type gym leader instead of a Dark type Elite 4 member just because it was the generation where Dark type got introduced. Not having a Dark type Gym leader until Gen 8 was objectively an error on GameFreak's end since the later introduced Fairy type had a gym in Gen 6, and they decided to have Sydney be a Dark type Elite 4 member for Gen 3 anyway. More of a nitpick change that I would've liked, but as previously mentioned, the greater issues of the game were well addressed!
Why would the average player even care about any of the "issues" you bring up here? Most of it is meta related and therefore completely irrelevant to the game itself. Also you make all these critiques about gen 2 but fail to bring up the countless other issues with all the other gens, so how does that make it the worst? The fact that nuzlockes are challenge runs actually makes Gen 2 better for nuzlockes because it's harder, especially with the level caps. Then again, nuzlocke is just metagame, players made it up, it didn't even promenantly exist when this game was first released. Red being a huge leap in difficulty makes sense because he is a superboss. Why would anyone even remember that fight if it wasn't for the challenge? I beat his overleveled party with a team of mostly mid 40's in level (some even in their 30's) with a 50 typhlosion and a level 70 Hooh, yes it was challenging but that was kind of the point, it was nice to be overwhelmed for once by a boss. Sure it would be even more challenging for a nuzlocke but like I said, the whole point of a nuzlocke is to be challenging, you do not have to grind at all to beat it. The gen 1 representation is not a downside whatsoever, besides it's the second game in the series, set in a region right next door to Kanto, of course they would both intertwine. Pokemon wasn't thinking on that level of scale yet, it was in a different place, gen 2 was to be more of a continuation of gen 1 than a whole new adventure, sorta like Black and White 2 was to Black and White. You might as well be complaining that Black and White 2 relies too much on Black and White and that XD Gale Of Darkness relies too much on Colosseum (which by the way used mostly content from that game and didn't have much of its own added to it by comparison). You say that Johto isn't good but you don't really explain why that is. Gen 2 intruduced a distinct cultural setting, it was oriental, you had pagodas, kimono dancers, mythological beasts and shrines, heck it even has the bullet train. It felt like Japan. Meanwhile Kanto just feels like some random place in the world, Hoenn was just some random tropical island, sinnoah was a little more distinct but it could still have been in any mountainous region. The fact however that Gen 2 managed to showcase Japanese culture in ways the other gens set in fictional Japan did not makes its region arguably the most well defined of the bunch, that and the team rocket story was arguably more interesting as well. Rather than just your typical mob operation getting dismantled by a 10 year old boy, you're seeing the remnants of an organization trying to reform and their methods are a lot less generic and more interesting, doing radio broadcasts to spread fear and propaganda in the region as well as selling slowpoketails to fund the operation, it was well thought out. You also ignore all of the quality of life features gen 2 added from gen 1 which by comparison is very hard to go back to. Like Gen 1 was so badly programmed that it brought about missingno, gen 2 added so much polish that it was a monumental achievement. Was it flawless? No but it's definitely got less flaws than gen 1 thats for sure, gen 1 was a mess of a game. Also you completely ignore Sword & Shield and onwards where the series just started getting soulless and bland. How is gen 2 worse than them? There's some strong meta bias here but I expect nothing less from a Pokemon focused channel. Thing is, not everyone cares about the meta, especially in a game with so much horrendously grindy stat management bullshit to make the meta experience inherently tedious. Pokemon's meta was never good and never will be.
There's a lot to unpack here but I'll start off first by saying reading your opinion was interesting and nice to see another perspective, and I'm not gonna dive too much into detail because this video is strictly my opinion (which for what it's worth several other Pokemon fans agree with me on) Overall, I do agree with some of what you said (like how Gen I had some ridiculously bad glitches and that every generation has its flaws) but since this video is about Gen II I didn't talk about the other ones, otherwise I would've done a video about what each Generation's flaw is for example I did go into why I think Johto isn't good so not gonna go back into that I also understand that Red is a Super Boss, but being that many levels higher means that I have to spend an insane amount of time to level up which is something that most players, myself included don't like to do as it takes time and isn't a skill based aspect of the game The representation of the Japanese culture part is true too, but I didn't really talk about it because that isn't the primary thing about it that catches my eye; nonetheless it is one part of Johto that is good As for the Gen V games BW2 is supposed to be a sequel and not a separate generation so of course it will depend on BW a lot, imo if they really wanted to make a sequel to RBY it would have made more sense to just make a game still set in Kanto Kanto’s over representation in Johto is definitely a subjective matter on whether you like it or not, but I think you’d agree it makes more sense for Johto trainers to have teams consisting mostly of Johto mons I believe that more or less addresses your questions, and I just want to conclude by saying that my video is just my opinion coming from the perspective of somebody who used to play competitively and currently does Hardcore Nuzlockes, have a great day!
I completely agree here, exactly what I stated. lol It's weird how people are fine with Emerald Steven, BW Cynthia etc, but hate Red, when they have the same problems and such as Red.
@CynicalGamingBlogTerry309 we're also talking about games prior to crystal that could run fine on the original gameboy. If they made the original gold and silver up to the hardware and cartridge standards of the GBA, you would have been looking at the weird add on gear that usually ends up being a low return gimmick. For the time when they released Silver and Gold were awesome in that context. The wide compatibility with their hand helds up to the GBC at that point was a blessing and a curse.
I can see that, as somebody who doesn't really like Gen I either (we can probably agree that a big reason why people like it is because it's the first)
So, gen 1, they have to fill out 8 gyms typings from 15 types. They take time to consider which types for which gyms. You have them using rock to make for a challenging gym 1. Having a fire, water and grass gym helps ballance out the starter selection to a degree. They can use types that are well represented by the pokemon avaliable in the game etc etc. For Gen 2, because they treat it as a sequal and included Kanto, they dont want to have the same types for any of the gyms. So the 8 types that they decided were the best types for the gyms, they're all out. Cant have a second rock gym, or a second water gym. So straight off the bat we're scraping the barrel. Why would you assign gym types in such a way that the grass starter has litterally no advantages over any of them? Why would you choose to have a ghost gym when there are only 2 ghost evolution lines and 1 of them is locked to post game? The gym types in Johto werent selected to optimise the gameplay experiance, they were selected because they were the rejects from kanto
Controversial opinion but my favourite gen is gen 3. Although I will agree... Too. Much. Water! Although the gen 2 remakes were by far the best remakes so far.
i don't think thats controversial Gen 3 is arguably the second best gen definitely top 4. I'm not even a big fan of that gen but the fans seem to love it
@@DahongLuke I think both games have different kinds of problems, while Gen 1 most are on the technical side, Gen 2 are more from a design perspective. The remake of Gen 2 really shows what happens when you maintain the flawed core of a game almost intact, while only fixing the bugs and only minor things. Kanto was overall better structured and in FRLG it really shows.
Almost none if not none of the Apricot Pokéballs work in their intended way and can be added to "Cool concept, bad executions". All my homies hate me for not drooling over Generation two. Oh yeah and FRIENDSHIP EVOLUTION, didn't we all love that? How nostalgic!
Pretty sure all you zoomers saying level curve is why newer pokemon games are impossible to lose, GG kiddlywinks they blunted the crayons so non of you'd cry. Does it feel good having a stab super effective move against your rival first fight & being over levelled by gym 1 or do you reminisce on overcoming those losses to whitney/cynthia hell even brock if you dun goof'd.
funny thing is i'm not actually a zoomer 😂 but the issue with the level caps being that big were twofold: 1. as a child i didn't have time to grind due to my parents limiting my gaming time and 2. now as an adult i still don't have time to either way grinding levels and stuff is hella boring anyway and as a Nuzlocker going into any battle severely underleveled is very idiotic as that's how you lose 😂
@@DahongLuke My bad your voice and opinion on effort made me think zoomies. But 1. That's a skill diff? Idk kid me only struggled with ice path & got my first level 100 in gen 2. & 2. With a full time job I still have about 6 hours a day spare time to game. & bonus round number 3. The game should be easier because you do challenge runs... do you not see how that's counter intuitive?
The level curve was not nearly as much of an issue in gens 1, 3 and 4, and those games are way better. So no, it's nothing to do with "skill issue" or "being a boomer," and rather than gen 2 and its remakes are just poorly designed games
It feels good having access to strong moves. I want to train my team at a certain pace. We should at least get coverage moves for tough battles if we are planning on using Pokémon that are not available yet.
I feel most your arguments are invalidated simply by the common knowledge of these games being designed as sequels to the original, before we had new generation after generation and long set up tropes of the franchise, furthermore, that they were designed as the last games.
the primary reason why i don’t think this is true is because imo (as mentioned in my arguments) a lot of the things that they tried to do to make an epic finale were not done well from a game design perspective and overall i believe much of Johto was mistreated thus tainting my enjoyment of the games (which is what this is about to being with) frankly it’s a pretty lazy effort for something meant to be the last games at the time imo
Games like Spyro 3 or Crash Team Racing were also designed with that mindset (at least the last ones under the original devs) and it feel like a proper payoff, even with a final credit scene which showed the entire love of the team, all of that with one of the best gameplay and graphics of the time (which still holds up). GSC in comparison is entirely lackluster. They really didnt care about being the last games that much. There are issues i cant simply ignore.
Ngl, I have read through a lot of comments on videos, and this one has to be the most negative IQ thing I have ever read. Congratulations for destroying my brain cells.
Oh boy, another new Gen 2 video repeating the same thing bandwagon can't wait for another in a month or so. But on a serious note, I disagree. Gen 2 isn't my favorite, but a lot of issues with it are issues with other games, I still prefer it to Gen 1, for me, it is SO hard to say Gen 1 is a better game like everyone suddenly seems to now when problems stem beyond glitches (as a side note I HATE this stigma people have where they must complain about a popular game to no end, but then act as if the problems of an overcriticzed game are what is specifically stated as the main problem, completely ignoring the overarching problem) While still a problem, Gen 2 is more tolerable when it comes to its overworld progression by means of two things "bag space and menu hopping" which is a constant problem in Gen 1, alongside gameplay issues such as Sleep and the fact so many NPCs cause status or spam trapping moves, namely Wrap. Outside of level curve and lack of region representation, there isn't much I would say it does worse than others. The Cyndaquil and Charmander line having the same stats isn't lazy when their playstyles are much different than one another, though yes, Typhlosion shouldn't have the same base stats, their movepools are different and do have different utility outside of being fast sweepers. I'm also just not a fan of blatantly insulating developers because you disagree with them. I agree that when you compared the regional dex's of every game, Johto's power level, on the whole, is lower, but I would state the contrary and say Hoenn isn't that much lower because how many of them are just as unusable or only serve a single purpose that isn't even useful in game? You have the worst Water/Ground type in Whishcash (who is already outclassed by Swampert game) two double battle specific Pokemon (Plusle, Minun, Volbeat, Illumise) one of each duo is just a worst version of the other, Shedinja (who's gimmick isn't good in a game where gyms are unfriendly to Bug types) Luvdisc who rivals that of Delibird, Ariados and Pre Gen4 Yanma in usefulness, Mawile (especially in Emerald where its availability is worse) Tropius, Spinda, Castform, Nosepass (also bad availability) Cradily, Huntail (a worse Gorebyss who isn't even available until after 7th badge and aren't used by any trainers, you wouldn't even get to register both in the Dex) Relicanth, Delcatty (only made for contest and its stats are honestly worse than 95% of the Johto Dex) Beautifly, Dustox (worse versions of Butterfree and Beedrill) Surskit and Masquerain (not even obtainable in Emeraldoutsde of swarms) Glalie (mediocre stats, the best of the bad mons and its only uses are for a couple of Elite Four battles, can't be gotten until 7 badges) Wailord, Mightyena, Pelipper (bad before it got Drizzle) Chimecho (not used by any trainers and appears in a missable area absurd by fog), Grumpig (not bad, but it literally has NOTHING but STAB Psychic, and is just a worse Gardevoir) Bannette, Swalot (a worse Muk) . Even a lot of good options are hampered by bad movesets, including the starters (excluding Swampert) especially if you chose Treecko. This is a Dex that features 202 Pokémon, 135 of which are new out of these options the ones I just listed equate to around 30 of them are so weak or outclassed to be useful, and if you add the amount you can't get due to being too late game, like around 7 to 8 badges (The Adformentioned Huntail, Gorebyss, Chimecho, Salamence, Metagross, Regis, Walrein, Dusclops, Relicanth, Luvdisc, Chimecho, ) that's like 7 more options too late. So really you don't have as many options as you think. Johto just has the more apparent issue of its late gamers like Houndour, Murkrow, Misdreavus and Slugma behind its postgame, but it is also still just the end of the game so to speak, you just play more of an expansion of the region. It's also strange to say the Gen 2 mons being evolutions to Gen 1 mons, devalues them as "Gen 2 mons" in the confines of gym leader teams or overall dex, yet Gen 4's dex does the same thing with how many new mons are just evolutions to previous ones. That doesn't mean they still aren't new Pokemon, is Roserade not valid now as Gen 4 because it evolves from Roselia a Gen 3 mon? I also don't see the lack of Gen 2 mons not being on gym leader teams as an issue of them being weak, if Wallace/Juan can use Luvdisc in their 8th gym battle then it shows that the lack of Johto mons isn't a "because they are bad" more than it is a design oversight, since you also have to factor in the point at which you fight them, Ariados and Ledian aren't bad for second gym, if Koga uses on as Elite Four, where Ariados is outclassed entirely. Especially when in the case of Wallace/Juan they could've used Gorebyss and Huntail who are not represented otherwise. Honestly, a lot of older Pokemon games just shouldn't gate any Pokemon from the player, regardless if they are good or bad, unless they are Pesudo Legendaries (if they can't find a way around making them evolve earlier) because even if say, you play the superior 3rd version (Yellow, Crystal, Emerald etc) all Pokemon should be obtainable for the player to use, regardless if what is not present is something as unimpressive as Arbok or Masquerain, because these are just options you won't experience in the superior version of the game, this isnn't just a Crystal or "Gen 2" issue, like these trends make disingenious attempts to seem, and for the one version cases like Magmar or Zangoose its even worse! Since it never made sense to me to want Larvitar in Johto because he would just have the same issues Dragonite and Salamence had in their debut gens. Because with Gen 1, if I say wanted to use Dratini to get Dragonite I would just be looking at Dragonair's base states, since Gen 1 doesn't have enough trainers to reach level 50s without some amount of grinding, part of the glory of team building is that not only does it create gameplay customization, but it also works thematically in a progression sense, your Pokemon's progression is a sign of your development and growth, them reaching those final stages showcases your power level is endgame and are ready to take on the last bit of the game, if I am stuck with a mid stage level o last boss or bosses of the game, what is the point otherwise? Salamence has this same problem alongside being gated behind 8 badges and Tyranitar would've had the same problem. To Hoenn's credit, there is a bit more to do than in Johto, but it is still too late for the post-Mossdeep Pokemon. That's literally half of your options in game exclusively Hoenn mons! I also don't see how it is an extension of Kanto is a bad thing, given how it directly ties off of Gen 1, it could have been executed better, especially since it wastes its potential to be a second adventure in the previous game's main region, I agree with that, but it also doesn't make the region bad just because it isn't its own region. The worst that Kanto's poor execution does in Gen 2 is showcase the time crunch the games had, as it really does feel like Kanto feels very unfinished like they didn't get to develop as much as they could, which the remakes DO improve on! And while I am not a fan of when Pokemon (or RPGs for that matter) use absurd level scaling as a means of difficulty spike, Red isn't even that bad, in fact, I found the remakes did it worse. I find he's significantly harder in HGSS than GSC. I beat Red on my first try in a lot of no-grind team runs, especially. Not to mention this same problem happens in Emerald with Steven, yet again nobody complains about that despite having the same issues (and even worse with the HM requirement) and Pokemon Black/White has Cynthia and the GameFreak employees who have teams full of level mid-70 Pokemon like Red does in GSC. You could even make a stretch to say FRLG and Platinum have their own secret post-game superbosses too through their champions' rematch teams after you clear the post-game storylines (their teams are in the mid 70's like GSC Red). As with the case in GSC/HGSS your Pokemon definitely aren't going to be level 70 by the time those fights open up if you're managing a full party of six and never grind. For the sake of not making this even longer, moveset issues are not just a Gen 2 problem, it was an early Gen problem as a whole, even Gen 4 didn't do it right.
I’m not gonna take the time to address everything you wrote since it’s too long, but yes you are entitled to your opinion and this is mine have a good day mate
I will just say one thing which is that I am a big Gen III fan and I will admit that it has its flaws, but since this is a video about Gen II I chose to not discuss other generations otherwise that would turn into a video about what I dislike about each generation maybe I’ll do that someday, though
Idc what nobody says, Scarlet and Violet are the worst in the series and its not even close Gold & Silver have aged kinda poorly but at least they were good when they came out Scarlet and Violet arent even good now, imagine in 20 years, that shit garbage. Its actually overrated and underhated
@@DahongLuke I mena theyre fun games but they are still hot garbage. They dont hold up to 2023 AAA game standards. At least the second gen of Pokemon holds up to its release time.
@@lordinfernape4753I dont think so. I could mention 100 different games that were a lot better and more polished both in 1999 and even in the 80s, such as Earthbound, Final fantasy 1-9, Dragon Quest 3, etc
@@sebastiankulche It seems like you dont get what I mean GSC look like 1999 games and even if its not the best game, I dont think anyone that played those games felt like playing an obsolete game or a game that coulda came out a decade before SV on the other hand feels like a Nintendo gamecube game and im not talkin just about the graphics, the experience itself is outdated af. Sure GSC has some level curve issues... what about SV lmao? You either get instantly destroyed by a gym leader or you just destroy them cuz ur overleveled af. The pokedex? GSC only lacks in terms of new Jhoto Pokemon, but the game gives you the tools to beat it without overwhwelming you. In SV, there are so many Pokemon accessible from the beginning yet they had the nerve to include the typical early game bugs and normal types, which are absolutely useless and not worth it in this context. You can just get a Houndoom as soon as you start, why bother using fkin Spidops, thats woirse than ledyba being bad in Silver... Also GSC at least works, every 2nd gen bug needs a setup, SV just randomly crashes for no reason lmao. I watch a streamer who got his game crashed 7 times (1 off stream) if SV came out in 1999 ofc it would be better, but GSC is better compared to other games of its era than SV. I dont even need to tell you I can name 100 games better than SV cuz by just saying "any AAA game" I just told u what games are better than SV. GSC was at least one of the best games of the GBC
@@lordinfernape4753 I dont know about SV because i didnt played any Pokemon game past XY minus Rescue Team DX, but they probably arent much better for what i saw so i agree in that. Wrong, because leveling curve and balancing issues are some of the worst sins an RPG can have (is like if a racing game had terrible handling. Not matter if it has good tracks, graphics and cars, handling bad=game bad) and anyone who wants to make an RPG game should have that in their manual. Not matter if its today or 30 years ago. The Dragon Quest Monsters for the Gameboy did a way better job at making a less messy experience with the catch and battle mechanic. And in my perspective, yes, i feel its outdated even when compared to both 1999 games or older ones, especially if you analyze all of its poorly implemented gimmicks like night and day cycle, two bare bones regions, internal clock, roaming Pokemon mechanic, etc. That is the definition of outdated.
@@Octopoess Yes, you are. Gen 1 is an unpolished mess, and Gen 2 is so dogshit that half of its gym leaders have to use Pokemon from Gen 1 as their aces.
alright just so people know, from now on at this point if you want to write an angry comment pointing out why I’m wrong, don’t bother since I don’t have time to read essays of comments so I’m just gonna ignore those. for context the main reason why I decided to make this video was because my buddies constantly kept asking me why I don’t like Gen II and I decided hey it’ll be better to just make a video rather than give the same speech over again. I’ll post my response to what I think will be common critiques about my arguments:
other Generations having flaws, some of which are even similar to ones mentioned in this video: yes, that’s absolutely true, nothing in this franchise is perfect. however because this is a video about Generation II I won’t be discussing others in this one otherwise that’ll be a video about what I dislike about each gen, which could be a future video. or if some problem exists in other generations, I probably put it down here cause imo it’s the most ridiculous in II
Kanto having a major presence in Johto isn’t bad: that’s mostly an opinion thing, but you’d be having a hard time convincing me that the games wouldn’t have been even better if Johto Pokémon got their proper representation.
thank you for understanding and have a good day
EDIT: I meant read not write LOL
I was being playfully sarcastic, I do disagree though. That it is the worst, that would be Gen 6 for me.
Buddy, you asked people to comment in your video. Relax. Everything is going to be okay.
@@jamesanderson1139If people disagree thats ok. If people cant respect his opinion without getting angry like annoying fanboys thats not ok.
@@Surgemaster2012Trust me there are worse games than Gen 6. Gen 6 only had one problem and one problem in a certain game.
But you have enough time to make a video about it. Based.
I just wanna know who thought putting new Pokémon in exclusively in Kanto was a good idea lmao
you and me both brother
@@JIMP2024the new Pokémon were all finished before kanto was even a full region. at that point in development, it was a large city and not the full region. more likely what happened is that they wanted the new additions to feel special in some way, so they pushed them to the post game
The definition of a gimmick. It may been impressive as an idea 25 years ago but it didnt age well.
I always say that if the new mons hidden in Kanto were at least sudolegendary level then it would be a cool idea have 1 or 2 of them in Kanto, but when it's unusable trash that no gym leader for that type even has on their team in the Kanto region it's just sad. I think a few gens have 1 or 2 post game exclusive pokemon but they are always either legendaries or the like so it isn't being new and post-game that is the real problem here.
Also wish they added more dragon types than just Kingdra, would've at least made Claire and Lance fights more interesting
agreed! Kingdra is great but more was absolutely needed
As long as they gave me jynx (nobody likes her sure but she is LEGIT OP) I have no problem since she outspeeds and one shots Dragonite and sends Lance all the way back to kanto
And Piloswine sucks I think
I like the way Black 2 and White 2 handled the routes east of Castelia City. In the original games Pokemon there were anywhere from level 2 to 25, but because you can access these parts only after you defeat Iris in the sequels, the Pokemon there are more appropriately leveled in the 50s and 60s
Gen V is the best tbh
You forgot the fact there is no Move Relearner in the games proper. The only way to relearn a move back in Gen 2 was to have an N64, a Transfer Pak, and Pokemon Stadium 2, and then you have to beat the Elite Four and Champion of Gym Leader Castle with a team solely comprised of Pokemon from your GB game via Transfer Pak. And after that, you only get to relearn ONE move for ONE Pokemon at a time. If you want to relearn another move, you would have to beat the E4/Champ again.
Bad level curve, some subpar pokemon, I totally feel you.
As R/B/Y sequels, they did great. Art direction felt more "rural, low-tech Japan".
But so much of this video has the benefit of hindsight. "Generations" weren't even a pattern, Johto was seen as "Pokemon DLC", and for kids playing Gold/Silver, just having a couple of new moves and sprites would have justified another game cartridge.
Highly recommend checking out SmithPlaysPokemon's videos on gen 2, they represent the issues very well.
I’ll take a look, thanks :)
Let's not forget that Gen 2 introduced one of the worst things in the series: Roaming Legendaries.
You decided to speak nothing but facts.
Friendship evo- Oh... Yeah I guess so?
Worst thing is that they didn't use Falkner's ANIME team that was Hoothoot DODRIO and Fat Pidgeot
I mean imagine that the first gym leader is UNBEATABLE up until later on
Kinda like this Norman from gen 3 but I want them to make you so you can challenge falkner any time you want unlike Norman who can be challenged only fifth I think 😂😂
To me, Gen 2 is the absolute pinnacle of Pokémon.
Back then there was no definition of "generations" like today, and people weren't tired of Kanto and definitely not tired of first gen pokemon.
I thought it was actually great how they mixed old and new pokémon in a way where it felt familiar for 1st genners, yet felt new and mysterious enough to make people curious and keep exploring.
The amount of stuff they manage to cram in a 1.5MB cartridge is mind blowing, sure there were bugs in the game, like how the new pokéballs didn't work like they were supposed to (but still much better coded and less buggy than Gen 1).
These were games intended for loooong play sessions, they expected you to come back at least twice a day, every day, to play. In today's world where everything is instantaneous, people have little time/short attention spans, it's almost unbearable to play a game like this. But I like it a lot, it really felt like a pokemon journey of your own, and the world felt like a world not like a game.
The closest any other game came to have a world so full of stuff to do was Gen 5, another gen I like a lot!
Not even the remakes (HG SS) got all the little details correctly, you see, Gen 2 was the introduction of Held Items, and Night and Day cycles.
-For held items, your starter pokémon is helding a Berry from the get go, that way, if you don't know what it is or how it works, you'll find out in the first wild battles when your pokémon recovers HP while battling a pidgey or something. IF you happen to be a seasoned trainer and know about the whole mechanics of the game, you can take that berry and save it for the sick Miltank quest, for example. The remakes forgot to include the held berry, really a shame.
-For night and day cycle, as I said, GSC aimed to have a world that seemed alive, so they made nocturnal and diurnal pokemon that only showed up during Night and Day, respectively. Everybody knows that.
HOWEVER, if you used Headbutt on a tree, let's say, during the night - there's a chance a wild DIURNAL pokémon could appear, but sleeping! Similarly, using headbutt during the DAY could make a NOCTURNAL pokémon appear, also sleeping! This meant that diurnal pokémon didn't just disappear during the night, they just when to the trees to sleep! (same with nocturnal pokémon).
This tiny little mechanic went completely missing on the remakes, it's so subtle, but at the same time so brilliant, I was baffled when I found the remakes didn't have this feature!
I could, literally, spend the next 2 days talking about how fucking *amazing* Gen2 is.
Battle animations, Mystery Gift, Held Items, Berries, Pokérus, Shinny Pokémon, new Pokéballs, new evolutions and pre-evolutions for old pokémon, Two new Pokémon Types, Breeding, Battle Tower, Night and Day Cycle, Days of the Week events cycle, first Gen with true online connectivity (in Japan), Bedroom decoration (which you could see in 3D in Stadium 2), Gold/Silver compatible with all 3 generations of Gameboy (just imagine if you could insert Sun and Moon in a Nintendo DS or Nintendo Switch and it just worked), Time Machine (trade pokémon with previous Gen), Cellphone allows you to have rematches and much more, Two regions/16 Gyms, connectivity with Pokémon Pikachu 2 (more advanced than a Pokéwalker), and so on....... but you get the idea. 😁
Reminder that to this day, people (like me) thought Slugma, Skarmory and Natu were from Hoenn, due to how bad a hand they got in their introduction generation.
Heck, I know some who thought Murkrow, Misdreavus, Aipom and Yanma were from SINNOH
Revisiting these games, it's really apparent how much Kanto functions as a really shallow boss rush that cuts out a lot of the original charm. I understand it's a technological feat to have even managed to get what we got onto a singular cartridge, but looking back, Gold and Silver's Kanto feels...empty.
completely with you there dude
2:17 90 base speed in gen 2 is "so slow?" Sorry but no, 90 base speed in gen 2 is literally somewhat fast. And in general, gen 2 Pokemon are not nearly as bad and unusable as you make them out to be in the context of the game itself, there is no powercreep from later gens and the general power level is much lower, so even mons like Jumpluff and Dunsparce are perfectly viable in singleplayer. 5:38 Excuse me? "Forcing you to grind"? You feel the need to grind to beat singleplayer Pokemon? I won't address the rest of the video but fundamentally, you cannot call gen 2 the worst when SwSh, BDSP and so on exists. I'm not even saying gen 2 is "good", but Pokemon gets a lot worse than this.
didnt expect you here lol
Points heard and understood.. but calling this generation the worst is blasphemy.. especially when Diamond and Pearl exist with their 5 fire Pokemon and slow ass animations 😂
Diamond and Pearl definitely the most overrated games for sure! but Platinum more than makes up for the travesty of DP to make Gen IV not the worst as tbh Platinum is a top 5 mainline series game of all time imho
@@DahongLuke I'm actually playing Plat for the first time rn on an emulator lol I didn't care to give it a chance after I played Diamond. Gen 2 is my favorite because those were the ones because I grew up on Gen 1-2 and yes going back to Kanto was a major role in that. Gen 3 is probably the overall best games but 2 is just my gives me my nostalgia hit. Flawed as it was.
I know you’re only taking about g/s/c but I want to say that hgss didn’t improve on a lot that gen 2 had, wild pokemon levels are still the same, gym leaders have the same teams as they did in the originals a lot of Johto Pokemon are still in the post game (Houndour, Slugma etc) although you can find these Pokemon in the newly added safari zone, a lot of Pokemon are just as bad as they were in the originals, the level jump from Blue to Red still exists and many other things that were not changed.
definitely, and that's why I think HGSS is the most overrated in the series (even though I did like the remakes a lot)
While the safari zone made some encounters available early on, setting it up correctly is a huge time sink considering you have to wait *in-game hours* to unlock features that might be necessary to get certain encounters, and then you have to manually modify the terrains. That, and making the box legendary encounter mandatory, makes GSC's bad pacing even worse in HGSS. Horrendously overrated games but nostalgia gets the best of many to an unreasonable degree
Not to mention the whole Gym Leader rematch system was so convoluted cause you had to find the leaders on a specific day of the week during a specific time frame and then had to remember that you could only call for a rematch during a specific day and time frame too.
@@soulkibble1466 yeah it was really annoying getting the numbers of Gym Leaders, the worst being Blue, where you have to talk to his sister everyday and have a Pokemon massaged then and only then would she give you his number.
Gen 2 is one of my favorites but I definitely can get behind a lot of what you say in this video. Still gonna be a stan though
you can like something while still acknowledging its flaws after all :)
paid shill for the newer slop generations with billions of glitches, poorly-constructed teams, easy gameplay, bad music, and terrible dialogue, made by a company that actively despises its customers
The criticism of the Gen 2 Pokémon not being presented front and center makes it look bad by the standards of most games that came after it starting with Gen 3 how most Pokémon gym leaders had were new and those you encountered in the wild were mostly new, it makes more sense if you look at if from the perspective of what they were going for with Gen 2 and how you’re discovering new Pokémon species that are hidden so gym leaders have a bunch of gen 2 Mons and encountering them everywhere would’ve killed that narrative. I think you’re looking at these games from a competitive online game perspective rather than an RPG adventure to immerse yourself in like the devs intended. As far as the level curve it’s consistent with Gen 1 areas level design but forgets to use logic when thinking of what level the gym leaders are, as if Faulkner having level 9 Pokémon would be a challenge for your average trainer.
I love Gen 2 having grown up on it, but I won't deny that there are a lot of glaring problems and archaic choices in the game that weren't really addressed even in the remakes such as the level caps and the sheer lack of Gen 2 mons in the region so that you could have a team of Gen2 mons. Hell, I'd love to have Heracross but I never knee you had to headbutt trees to find him.
nah they should've just made every pokemon be lanturn that would've been better
Lanturn is Pog
Gen 2 is the best. It will never be topped.
Johto is garbage, it never will be topped, not even by Galar
yea, that's why wen 3rd Gen hit n pokemons fad popularity nosedived. after Gold/Sliver u never heard of anything Pokémon again. g/s WAS pokemon at the height of its popularity.
@mattiacicchetti3778 and I was there wen it happened.
My only problems with Gen 2 are the low levels for many trainer teams and limited movepools. The best example of Gen 2 relying too much on Gen 1 was the decision to remove the Rock Slide TM. Do you want your Golem or Rhydon to learn Rock Slide? Unless you trade them back to a Gen 1 game and then trade them back to Gen 2, Rock Slide is an egg move for Geodude and Rhyhorn in GSC. Instead of keeping the Rock Slide TM, they decided to change TM 48 to Fire Punch and make Defense Curl a TM.
Everyone talks about GSC locking some Gen 2 Pokémon to Kanto. I used to think that was a problem but not anymore. GSC Kanto feels more like the last third of the game rather than the post game. It did not take that long for Houndoom to catch up to the rest of my team when I played Pokémon Crystal last year. Johto does not allow the player to train a full team of six Pokémon because it is only two thirds of the game. I took advantage of the Pokégear trainer rematches instead of grinding on wild Pokémon.
9:01 Gen V, Gen VII and in some way Gen IX would like to have a talk with you.
I agree those stories were the best in the series. I just don’t think Pokémon stories are amazing in a vacuum, but those (especially Gen V) exceeded my expectations a lot and it’s a big reason why Gen V is my favorite among the games
@@DahongLuke fair enough, my favourite is Gen VII
Hate to be that person but this video is just the same regurgitated point of view that has already been made. If you make videos like this you should do some research and try to approach with original ideas.
7:37Because he has to be the supreme coach, the former champion and protagonist. Furthermore, you find him randomly on a mountain while you explore, and despite the difference in level the battle is manageable without having to do a lot of training
But... But TWO REGIONS!!
_* Cries in nostalf@g *_
stay mad
for some context on gen 2’s development: it wasn’t as rushed as you seem to think. it was delayed, yes, but it certainly wasn’t something they were rushing from the beginning.
I also think the high levels of red and the imbalance of the last 3 johto gyms is fine, as it encourages the use of strategy over grinding, which I imagine is why the wild Pokémon are so underleveled, it’s to prevent that. that’s why I actually like the level spike, as it’s more engaging and fun to be forced to strategize with your team rather than just slap together some Pokémon and just sweeping. of course the johto gyms aren’t very difficult for that, but I think the kanto gyms do encourage it a small amount, and red does especially. as well, a Pokémon game is about much more than battling, and elements like atmosphere and world building were done incredibly well by gen 2 with stuff like a day/night cycle, breeding, and the ruins of alph.
good video tho! not trying to yell at you for being wrong or whatever, just sharing my own thoughts
breeding definitely great change i agree, but not sure if i understand what you mean by higher levels on the NPCs requiring strategy, since if you allow items you just can keep spamming potions revives etc in that scenario which imo isn’t much of a strategy
on top of that if I play using Hardcore Nuzlocke rules I can’t use items so grinding to the level cap is pretty much necessary so that I don’t wipe
@@DahongLuke to be fair hardcore nuslockes are an entirely fan made optional challenge. I don't blame the devs with not designing the game to fit an entirely fanmade optional challenge.
@@randomprotag9329I dont think the game is particularly friendly or well designed with new players either.
@@sebastiankulche Gen 2 has issues but the hardcore nuslocke rules does make stuff more of an issue than it is normally
@@randomprotag9329 I dont do nuzlockes and i can agree with youtubers who did nuzlocks in the past.
Being a speedrunner, a nuzlocker or whatever doesnt mean they cant speak objectively.
Dahong: Pchal, can I borrow your homework?
Pchal: sure, just don’t make it look like you copied
Dahong:
great minds think alike i guess 😜
you copied bits of his video almost word for word..
@@ne3xy yeah thought it was a bit cheeky tbh
Yeah honestly this is really lame...
Still not convinced this generation wasn’t the peak of Pokémon. But you dislike these games just wait until you play the remakes! Or try, rather. They’re ridiculously unplayable.
Im personally waiting for the last romhack of "Smith Plays Pokemon". It probably be so good.
This generation is the nadir of Pokemon.
Im going to expand with an edit when I get the time, but most of your issues are "i had a bad time as a nuzlocker and now I hate the game". Thats a skill issue and also NOT how these games were intended to be played. Of every game in the series, this one encourages a more lax day to day playstyle that you are very much rewarded with.
Saying this game was rushed is erroneous because it started development 4 years before it was released, and delayed twice. The developers put their blood seat and tears to make these the final ultimate pokemon version. Though they are not perfect, it's a spit in the face of the developers to say they were lazy or rushed it.
You did nothing to stir the conversation of gen 2, other than relay points that everyone already knows or has explained in much more depth than "this is dumb, i don't like it".
I really don't like to post comments like this bc i hope you're a wonderful person, but this video was rushed, inflammatory, and click bait. I hope more thought can go into the next one. Your a hardcore nuzlock player, so REALLY go into that perspective! I wouldve loved a new view of these games
Gen 2 is the definition of bitter sweet
Fair argument however Sudowoodo was added in gen2 so no.
Sudowoodo is p cool ngl
It should say something that Johto has so many ROMhacks and videos about "fixing"/improving it compared to other regions. Kalos is similarly underbaked and while it does have a sizable number of people pointing our its numerous flaws, it's still not as commonly fixed as Johto (though granted a big part of that is because 3DS hacking is not as easy as GBC hacking, but still; and even then, there are still way more videos about Johto than Kalos in that regard).
100% agreed, Kalos I honestly believe is the region with the most untapped potential bc the developers never made Z
its why i love the linearity the gen 4+ games the level curve feels so much smoother and fun
7:35 YES! I faced him with my full lvl 63 team. Ngl it wasn't as hard as it should have been, but still a bit challenging.
My team was, at the time:
Feraligathr.
Honchkrow.
Yanmega.
Lanturn.
Magcargo.
Ursaring.
I now have Sceptile instead of Ursaring (you get one of the Hoenn starters as a gift from Steven after beating Red)
Yanmega so ot was hgss which made red a little easier but the jump was still there.
i miss when this was a legitimate debate because after pchal put in his two cents everyone just says what he said
It's a different game meant for a different audience.
If you don't like it, it's fine you can play Gen 3+, no need to pile on and slander Gen 2. I know UA-cam feeds off "engagement" so controversial topics really gets clicks but this is just ridiculous.
What's ridiculous is to imply that people aren't allowed to express positive or negative opinions about whatever topics they want. If YOU don't like it, you can always click off and hit do not recommend. I think you know Gen 2 is bad anyway, that's why your defense of it is so weak. Nostalgia sure is one hell of a drug.
Gen 6-8 are actually the worst due to the walls of text, hand holding and gearing the franchise toward babies, everything became too P.C.
And Gen 9 had a lot of potential but wasn't finished. Area Zero is one of the coolest locations and story arcs in the series.
I also recommend Polished Crystal and Crystal Clear as the Johto romhacks that improve the experience
All explanation needed was the battery backup
As much as I love gen2, he makes a lot of great points about Johto. I am curious to hear the Gen2>Gen3 changes and opinion on that.
maybe in another video someday…
I think a lot of Gen 2 would have been better if they just didnt include Kanto. It would have forced them to include everything before the e4 rather then trying to 'save' content for Kanto, and probably would have allowed them to scale the E4 up to the 60s rather then 50s (with approprite scaling for the later gyms).
This way, all Johto pokemon are actually in Johto, all the evolution stones must be in Johto (no more having to beat the elite 4 with a growlithe) and your pokemon should be getting their best moves in time for what is suppose to be the climax of your game (because it doesnt matter if its a hardcore nuzlocke or a casual playthrough, having to wait till lv60 to get flamethrower when the E4 caps at 50 is just a garbage feeling). Important TMs is another gameplay aspect that suffers because they need content for Kanto. Moves like steel wing, zap cannon, psychic etc would all make many pokemon much more intetesting to use in both a casual playthrough and a nuzlocke challange, but they're unavailable until you're deep into Kanto.
Kanto's very existance just destroys the pace and world building of Johto. Kanto in gen 2 exist at the expense of Johto
This isn’t just having similar opinions, this is straight up word-for-word plagiarism in your complaints and how you describe some of these Pokemon and problems. Word for word
ua-cam.com/video/75RibBHgJHQ/v-deo.htmlsi=7qmrTs1qK8yvoK6Z
News flash. Gen two isn’t actually bad.
It’s just a bunch of group think/people parroting popular creators.
Your comment is proof of that.
@@Mipsoh word for word script plagiarism is what my comment is about
@@discobites I know. That’s why I said people parroting popular creators
@@Mipsohnah gen 2 really is garbage, that’s why so many people have been saying it is lately
@@Mipsohnah it's actually trash but tbh I still like it
Honestly, HeartGold and SoulSilver might actually saved these games somewhat.
Nah they're the most overrated games in the franchise and don't do nearly enough to fix GSC's issues
@@PMar797 That's why I said "somewhat". Those games are flawed, too. XD
@@ZerryBerrytheSpaceRaccoon they didn't save the original's in any way whatsoever though. At best, they made things prettier and maybe feel a bit more complete. At worst, they ruined things that make playing through the games that much more rough
On the subject of locking certain Johto pokemon to postgame, here's a couple of gen 1 pokemon that also would have been nice to have earlier:
Cubone
Diglett (fast and arguably OP in the maingame with earthquake, but it's frail so it evens out.)
Pikachu (There are almost no new Electric types, especially with the lack of Mareep in Crystal.)
Electabuzz (same as above).
Kangaskhan (you already have Tauros, so why not)
Mr. Mime
Also why don't we get any fossils? Not even one?
Gen 2 definitely has a million problems, but is still 10x better than gens 8 & 9
perfectly fair! I actually enjoyed IX more than I thought I would and for VIII I only enjoyed Legends Arceus but I love that game tbh
Even though I haven't played either of Gen 8 or 9, I'd still argue against that.
Hah funny no
I've played every gen prior to 8 but refuse to pay more money for the same game engine with more bugs, less mons, less moves, and marketing lies. But all of those negatives surrounding gen 8 and 9 doesn't make gen 2 any better. In order from worst to best in my mind it must be: 2, 8, 9, 1, 5, 4, 3, 6, 7. And the only reason gen 7 is at the top is becuase it has all the previous gens mons and gimics instead of cutting out content becuase they couldn't be arsed to make a new gimmic that didn't clash with a past one.
Hilariously bad take! Gen 9 is the worst* 8 too.
I remember wen these games came out, I was a kid. the hype behind g/s games was immense. the pokemon designs are some of the best they ever been. which u can't say for later generations. alot of em look like neopets and nowaways like literally anything can be a pokemon. like that apple pokemon that evoles into apple pie. 😂 good lord.
@@CurtisJeffries-cd5vu Its nto the pokemon designs, its mainly because how terrible the gameplay is now, the insane technical glitches and bugs, the lack of care or effort, and no landmarks or locations making towns stand out.
@shewolfcub3 that's why u only need to play till g/s. it was suppose to end after that, it should have.
@@CurtisJeffries-cd5vu I enjoy Gen 3, 4, 5, and 6 as well but then it fell off horrifically
@@shewolfcub3 yea, that's too many pokemon to catch for me. probably take ur whole life to catch every pokemon nowadays.
Thank you 🙏
I'm playing through each Pokemon game for the first time now and even though I think Johto has some of the best Pokemon designs in terms of their look. Imo there isn't a single miss they all look great. I was INCREDIBLY frustrated with my first playthrough of Crystal as there were so many Pokemon I wanted to train and was absolutely blown away by how few new ones there were. I'm also trying to only use new Pokemon introduced in that game so by the end my team was mostly early game pokemon just because there's so few new ones. I didn't even run into most Johto Pokemon.
Like I think overall Crystal is better than Red in terms of its music and graphics and stuff but the main reason I play is for the Pokemon and they just totally dropped the ball on giving that to me. It's a shame. I just beat Emerald for the first time and had a much better time finding new Pokemon to collect there!
yep that's exactly what i mean by the lack of Johto mons being available at a reasonable point
You only talk abt the bad. Let's talk about the good
Considering its time, it has the best upgrade pokemon have ever had. Johto was very vast not to mention after you beat the game, you'll get a new map of kanto and collect 8 new badges and we also get the best or if not one of the best final fight with red that we didn't expect as a kid or first time players. Let's talk about the upgrades.
Crystal was the first time we see pokemon move after encounter
Addition of day and night. Pokegear that lets you battle trainers again while their pokemon levels up too
Held items. Some also evolves while holding certain items when traded or met certain conditions.
Poke egg you know the rest. Pre evolution of some pokemon like pikachu/electabuzz
New pokeballs. Though the effect somehow isn't the same now, the apricorn balls was like the prototype.
Hidden move boosts. Yes it started here. Like when you use defense curl it powers up rollout or when pokemon use minimize, stomp move power is doubled same as twister/gust on fly etc
Battle tower. Almost same as battle frontier lol
Fighting type became good. Addition of dark and steel type and other type advantages.
Shiny. I know there's shiny pokemon on gen 1 but gen 2 was the time most of us saw one and got one.
Hardest pokemon gym??
There's maybe some things i missed but gen 2 isn't as bad as some gen (which i won't say) most of the things i've said are still used in the game up till now. and if you're gonna ask me, that's awesome considering its time.
4:22. cause noctowl is WAY too strong for that point in the game
to everyone who complains about the new games, this is EXACTLY what you sound like
I agree and is sad that fanboys are behind your tail, lol.
I definitely agree that GSC has a lot of issues. Personally I still like it, but damn a lot of things suck about it. I've also been doing every single game in the series back to back this year to replay and have them fresh in my memory, or a new experience for some, and I have got to say that I think HGSS are the worst games and remakes in the series instead, because a lot of the points you made here are still present there. Like what?? Level curve? Still there and even worse since it's on the gen 4 style so grinding is even slower than the original games. Johto pokemon not in Johto? There idea of fixing it was putting them in the pokewalker instead of actually fixing the game itself. If Scarlet/Violet locked QoL features behind a gimmick outside the main game people would complain, and HGSS deserves that critique as well. Phanphy was available in route 46 in crystal at like 5%, and is removed from there in HGSS?? Even less Johto mon, thanks bro. They extend the Eusine & Suicune story into Kanto for very little change, isnt even interesting, doesnt give Eusine a second fight with a better team, and again another Johto mon you cant use in your main playthrough because now you have to wait until Kanto to catch it. Definitely has some fixes, but the fact it still has some of the big issues that could have easily been fixed is insulting. "Best remake" and it can't even remove issues from 7-10 years before it.
"Actually, this thing sucks."
Definitely agree with the points! I would've also loved to maybe see a Dark type gym leader instead of a Dark type Elite 4 member just because it was the generation where Dark type got introduced. Not having a Dark type Gym leader until Gen 8 was objectively an error on GameFreak's end since the later introduced Fairy type had a gym in Gen 6, and they decided to have Sydney be a Dark type Elite 4 member for Gen 3 anyway. More of a nitpick change that I would've liked, but as previously mentioned, the greater issues of the game were well addressed!
Why would the average player even care about any of the "issues" you bring up here? Most of it is meta related and therefore completely irrelevant to the game itself.
Also you make all these critiques about gen 2 but fail to bring up the countless other issues with all the other gens, so how does that make it the worst?
The fact that nuzlockes are challenge runs actually makes Gen 2 better for nuzlockes because it's harder, especially with the level caps. Then again, nuzlocke is just metagame, players made it up, it didn't even promenantly exist when this game was first released.
Red being a huge leap in difficulty makes sense because he is a superboss. Why would anyone even remember that fight if it wasn't for the challenge? I beat his overleveled party with a team of mostly mid 40's in level (some even in their 30's) with a 50 typhlosion and a level 70 Hooh, yes it was challenging but that was kind of the point, it was nice to be overwhelmed for once by a boss. Sure it would be even more challenging for a nuzlocke but like I said, the whole point of a nuzlocke is to be challenging, you do not have to grind at all to beat it.
The gen 1 representation is not a downside whatsoever, besides it's the second game in the series, set in a region right next door to Kanto, of course they would both intertwine. Pokemon wasn't thinking on that level of scale yet, it was in a different place, gen 2 was to be more of a continuation of gen 1 than a whole new adventure, sorta like Black and White 2 was to Black and White. You might as well be complaining that Black and White 2 relies too much on Black and White and that XD Gale Of Darkness relies too much on Colosseum (which by the way used mostly content from that game and didn't have much of its own added to it by comparison).
You say that Johto isn't good but you don't really explain why that is. Gen 2 intruduced a distinct cultural setting, it was oriental, you had pagodas, kimono dancers, mythological beasts and shrines, heck it even has the bullet train. It felt like Japan. Meanwhile Kanto just feels like some random place in the world, Hoenn was just some random tropical island, sinnoah was a little more distinct but it could still have been in any mountainous region. The fact however that Gen 2 managed to showcase Japanese culture in ways the other gens set in fictional Japan did not makes its region arguably the most well defined of the bunch, that and the team rocket story was arguably more interesting as well. Rather than just your typical mob operation getting dismantled by a 10 year old boy, you're seeing the remnants of an organization trying to reform and their methods are a lot less generic and more interesting, doing radio broadcasts to spread fear and propaganda in the region as well as selling slowpoketails to fund the operation, it was well thought out. You also ignore all of the quality of life features gen 2 added from gen 1 which by comparison is very hard to go back to. Like Gen 1 was so badly programmed that it brought about missingno, gen 2 added so much polish that it was a monumental achievement. Was it flawless? No but it's definitely got less flaws than gen 1 thats for sure, gen 1 was a mess of a game.
Also you completely ignore Sword & Shield and onwards where the series just started getting soulless and bland. How is gen 2 worse than them?
There's some strong meta bias here but I expect nothing less from a Pokemon focused channel. Thing is, not everyone cares about the meta, especially in a game with so much horrendously grindy stat management bullshit to make the meta experience inherently tedious. Pokemon's meta was never good and never will be.
There's a lot to unpack here but I'll start off first by saying reading your opinion was interesting and nice to see another perspective, and I'm not gonna dive too much into detail because this video is strictly my opinion (which for what it's worth several other Pokemon fans agree with me on)
Overall, I do agree with some of what you said (like how Gen I had some ridiculously bad glitches and that every generation has its flaws) but since this video is about Gen II I didn't talk about the other ones, otherwise I would've done a video about what each Generation's flaw is for example
I did go into why I think Johto isn't good so not gonna go back into that
I also understand that Red is a Super Boss, but being that many levels higher means that I have to spend an insane amount of time to level up which is something that most players, myself included don't like to do as it takes time and isn't a skill based aspect of the game
The representation of the Japanese culture part is true too, but I didn't really talk about it because that isn't the primary thing about it that catches my eye; nonetheless it is one part of Johto that is good
As for the Gen V games BW2 is supposed to be a sequel and not a separate generation so of course it will depend on BW a lot, imo if they really wanted to make a sequel to RBY it would have made more sense to just make a game still set in Kanto
Kanto’s over representation in Johto is definitely a subjective matter on whether you like it or not, but I think you’d agree it makes more sense for Johto trainers to have teams consisting mostly of Johto mons
I believe that more or less addresses your questions, and I just want to conclude by saying that my video is just my opinion coming from the perspective of somebody who used to play competitively and currently does Hardcore Nuzlockes, have a great day!
I completely agree here, exactly what I stated. lol It's weird how people are fine with Emerald Steven, BW Cynthia etc, but hate Red, when they have the same problems and such as Red.
@@gleamingroses2952 I will add to this by saying that unlike Gen 3, Gen 2 didn't remove sizeable numbers of Pokemon from the game.
@CynicalGamingBlogTerry309 we're also talking about games prior to crystal that could run fine on the original gameboy. If they made the original gold and silver up to the hardware and cartridge standards of the GBA, you would have been looking at the weird add on gear that usually ends up being a low return gimmick. For the time when they released Silver and Gold were awesome in that context. The wide compatibility with their hand helds up to the GBC at that point was a blessing and a curse.
Pretty hard to maintain that gen 2 is worse than the mess that is gen 1
I can see that, as somebody who doesn't really like Gen I either (we can probably agree that a big reason why people like it is because it's the first)
he's a hater. pokemon fell off sooo hard. after gold/sliver pokemon virtually vanished out the either overnight.
U know Unown was not meant to be used right? uk that right?
Furret, Azumarill and Sunflora are fine examples but wtf with Unown
Idc, these are still my favorite games in the series.
So, gen 1, they have to fill out 8 gyms typings from 15 types. They take time to consider which types for which gyms. You have them using rock to make for a challenging gym 1. Having a fire, water and grass gym helps ballance out the starter selection to a degree. They can use types that are well represented by the pokemon avaliable in the game etc etc.
For Gen 2, because they treat it as a sequal and included Kanto, they dont want to have the same types for any of the gyms. So the 8 types that they decided were the best types for the gyms, they're all out. Cant have a second rock gym, or a second water gym.
So straight off the bat we're scraping the barrel. Why would you assign gym types in such a way that the grass starter has litterally no advantages over any of them? Why would you choose to have a ghost gym when there are only 2 ghost evolution lines and 1 of them is locked to post game?
The gym types in Johto werent selected to optimise the gameplay experiance, they were selected because they were the rejects from kanto
Controversial opinion but my favourite gen is gen 3. Although I will agree... Too. Much. Water!
Although the gen 2 remakes were by far the best remakes so far.
I also love III and HGSS
i don't think thats controversial Gen 3 is arguably the second best gen definitely top 4. I'm not even a big fan of that gen but the fans seem to love it
Gen 2 cant be the worst if Gen 1 exists
Gen 1 is also pretty bad but often gets overlooked since it was the first
@@DahongLuke I think both games have different kinds of problems, while Gen 1 most are on the technical side, Gen 2 are more from a design perspective. The remake of Gen 2 really shows what happens when you maintain the flawed core of a game almost intact, while only fixing the bugs and only minor things. Kanto was overall better structured and in FRLG it really shows.
Almost none if not none of the Apricot Pokéballs work in their intended way and can be added to "Cool concept, bad executions". All my homies hate me for not drooling over Generation two. Oh yeah and FRIENDSHIP EVOLUTION, didn't we all love that? How nostalgic!
To be fair, raising friendship in Crystal was easier at least.
Pretty sure all you zoomers saying level curve is why newer pokemon games are impossible to lose, GG kiddlywinks they blunted the crayons so non of you'd cry. Does it feel good having a stab super effective move against your rival first fight & being over levelled by gym 1 or do you reminisce on overcoming those losses to whitney/cynthia hell even brock if you dun goof'd.
funny thing is i'm not actually a zoomer 😂 but the issue with the level caps being that big were twofold: 1. as a child i didn't have time to grind due to my parents limiting my gaming time and 2. now as an adult i still don't have time to
either way grinding levels and stuff is hella boring anyway and as a Nuzlocker going into any battle severely underleveled is very idiotic as that's how you lose 😂
@@DahongLuke My bad your voice and opinion on effort made me think zoomies. But 1. That's a skill diff? Idk kid me only struggled with ice path & got my first level 100 in gen 2. & 2. With a full time job I still have about 6 hours a day spare time to game. & bonus round number 3. The game should be easier because you do challenge runs... do you not see how that's counter intuitive?
The level curve was not nearly as much of an issue in gens 1, 3 and 4, and those games are way better. So no, it's nothing to do with "skill issue" or "being a boomer," and rather than gen 2 and its remakes are just poorly designed games
It feels good having access to strong moves. I want to train my team at a certain pace. We should at least get coverage moves for tough battles if we are planning on using Pokémon that are not available yet.
for the algo
I feel most your arguments are invalidated simply by the common knowledge of these games being designed as sequels to the original, before we had new generation after generation and long set up tropes of the franchise, furthermore, that they were designed as the last games.
the primary reason why i don’t think this is true is because imo (as mentioned in my arguments) a lot of the things that they tried to do to make an epic finale were not done well from a game design perspective and overall i believe much of Johto was mistreated thus tainting my enjoyment of the games (which is what this is about to being with)
frankly it’s a pretty lazy effort for something meant to be the last games at the time imo
Understanding why something is shitty does not make it not shitty. Gen 2 is still terrible.
That just explains why it's bad, it doesn't make it any less bad.
Games like Spyro 3 or Crash Team Racing were also designed with that mindset (at least the last ones under the original devs) and it feel like a proper payoff, even with a final credit scene which showed the entire love of the team, all of that with one of the best gameplay and graphics of the time (which still holds up). GSC in comparison is entirely lackluster. They really didnt care about being the last games that much. There are issues i cant simply ignore.
You are 100% the reason why games are so stupid easy and so little goes into development now.
Ngl, I have read through a lot of comments on videos, and this one has to be the most negative IQ thing I have ever read. Congratulations for destroying my brain cells.
Make Haxo24 see this video! I'm sick of Johto!
Oh boy, another new Gen 2 video repeating the same thing bandwagon can't wait for another in a month or so. But on a serious note, I disagree. Gen 2 isn't my favorite, but a lot of issues with it are issues with other games, I still prefer it to Gen 1, for me, it is SO hard to say Gen 1 is a better game like everyone suddenly seems to now when problems stem beyond glitches (as a side note I HATE this stigma people have where they must complain about a popular game to no end, but then act as if the problems of an overcriticzed game are what is specifically stated as the main problem, completely ignoring the overarching problem) While still a problem, Gen 2 is more tolerable when it comes to its overworld progression by means of two things "bag space and menu hopping" which is a constant problem in Gen 1, alongside gameplay issues such as Sleep and the fact so many NPCs cause status or spam trapping moves, namely Wrap.
Outside of level curve and lack of region representation, there isn't much I would say it does worse than others. The Cyndaquil and Charmander line having the same stats isn't lazy when their playstyles are much different than one another, though yes, Typhlosion shouldn't have the same base stats, their movepools are different and do have different utility outside of being fast sweepers. I'm also just not a fan of blatantly insulating developers because you disagree with them. I agree that when you compared the regional dex's of every game, Johto's power level, on the whole, is lower, but I would state the contrary and say Hoenn isn't that much lower because how many of them are just as unusable or only serve a single purpose that isn't even useful in game? You have the worst Water/Ground type in Whishcash (who is already outclassed by Swampert game) two double battle specific Pokemon (Plusle, Minun, Volbeat, Illumise) one of each duo is just a worst version of the other, Shedinja (who's gimmick isn't good in a game where gyms are unfriendly to Bug types) Luvdisc who rivals that of Delibird, Ariados and Pre Gen4 Yanma in usefulness, Mawile (especially in Emerald where its availability is worse) Tropius, Spinda, Castform, Nosepass (also bad availability) Cradily, Huntail (a worse Gorebyss who isn't even available until after 7th badge and aren't used by any trainers, you wouldn't even get to register both in the Dex) Relicanth, Delcatty (only made for contest and its stats are honestly worse than 95% of the Johto Dex) Beautifly, Dustox (worse versions of Butterfree and Beedrill) Surskit and Masquerain (not even obtainable in Emeraldoutsde of swarms) Glalie (mediocre stats, the best of the bad mons and its only uses are for a couple of Elite Four battles, can't be gotten until 7 badges) Wailord, Mightyena, Pelipper (bad before it got Drizzle) Chimecho (not used by any trainers and appears in a missable area absurd by fog), Grumpig (not bad, but it literally has NOTHING but STAB Psychic, and is just a worse Gardevoir) Bannette, Swalot (a worse Muk) . Even a lot of good options are hampered by bad movesets, including the starters (excluding Swampert) especially if you chose Treecko.
This is a Dex that features 202 Pokémon, 135 of which are new out of these options the ones I just listed equate to around 30 of them are so weak or outclassed to be useful, and if you add the amount you can't get due to being too late game, like around 7 to 8 badges (The Adformentioned Huntail, Gorebyss, Chimecho, Salamence, Metagross, Regis, Walrein, Dusclops, Relicanth, Luvdisc, Chimecho, ) that's like 7 more options too late. So really you don't have as many options as you think. Johto just has the more apparent issue of its late gamers like Houndour, Murkrow, Misdreavus and Slugma behind its postgame, but it is also still just the end of the game so to speak, you just play more of an expansion of the region. It's also strange to say the Gen 2 mons being evolutions to Gen 1 mons, devalues them as "Gen 2 mons" in the confines of gym leader teams or overall dex, yet Gen 4's dex does the same thing with how many new mons are just evolutions to previous ones. That doesn't mean they still aren't new Pokemon, is Roserade not valid now as Gen 4 because it evolves from Roselia a Gen 3 mon? I also don't see the lack of Gen 2 mons not being on gym leader teams as an issue of them being weak, if Wallace/Juan can use Luvdisc in their 8th gym battle then it shows that the lack of Johto mons isn't a "because they are bad" more than it is a design oversight, since you also have to factor in the point at which you fight them, Ariados and Ledian aren't bad for second gym, if Koga uses on as Elite Four, where Ariados is outclassed entirely. Especially when in the case of Wallace/Juan they could've used Gorebyss and Huntail who are not represented otherwise.
Honestly, a lot of older Pokemon games just shouldn't gate any Pokemon from the player, regardless if they are good or bad, unless they are Pesudo Legendaries (if they can't find a way around making them evolve earlier) because even if say, you play the superior 3rd version (Yellow, Crystal, Emerald etc) all Pokemon should be obtainable for the player to use, regardless if what is not present is something as unimpressive as Arbok or Masquerain, because these are just options you won't experience in the superior version of the game, this isnn't just a Crystal or "Gen 2" issue, like these trends make disingenious attempts to seem, and for the one version cases like Magmar or Zangoose its even worse! Since it never made sense to me to want Larvitar in Johto because he would just have the same issues Dragonite and Salamence had in their debut gens. Because with Gen 1, if I say wanted to use Dratini to get Dragonite I would just be looking at Dragonair's base states, since Gen 1 doesn't have enough trainers to reach level 50s without some amount of grinding, part of the glory of team building is that not only does it create gameplay customization, but it also works thematically in a progression sense, your Pokemon's progression is a sign of your development and growth, them reaching those final stages showcases your power level is endgame and are ready to take on the last bit of the game, if I am stuck with a mid stage level o last boss or bosses of the game, what is the point otherwise? Salamence has this same problem alongside being gated behind 8 badges and Tyranitar would've had the same problem.
To Hoenn's credit, there is a bit more to do than in Johto, but it is still too late for the post-Mossdeep Pokemon. That's literally half of your options in game exclusively Hoenn mons! I also don't see how it is an extension of Kanto is a bad thing, given how it directly ties off of Gen 1, it could have been executed better, especially since it wastes its potential to be a second adventure in the previous game's main region, I agree with that, but it also doesn't make the region bad just because it isn't its own region. The worst that Kanto's poor execution does in Gen 2 is showcase the time crunch the games had, as it really does feel like Kanto feels very unfinished like they didn't get to develop as much as they could, which the remakes DO improve on! And while I am not a fan of when Pokemon (or RPGs for that matter) use absurd level scaling as a means of difficulty spike, Red isn't even that bad, in fact, I found the remakes did it worse. I find he's significantly harder in HGSS than GSC. I beat Red on my first try in a lot of no-grind team runs, especially. Not to mention this same problem happens in Emerald with Steven, yet again nobody complains about that despite having the same issues (and even worse with the HM requirement) and Pokemon Black/White has Cynthia and the GameFreak employees who have teams full of level mid-70 Pokemon like Red does in GSC. You could even make a stretch to say FRLG and Platinum have their own secret post-game superbosses too through their champions' rematch teams after you clear the post-game storylines (their teams are in the mid 70's like GSC Red). As with the case in GSC/HGSS your Pokemon definitely aren't going to be level 70 by the time those fights open up if you're managing a full party of six and never grind.
For the sake of not making this even longer, moveset issues are not just a Gen 2 problem, it was an early Gen problem as a whole, even Gen 4 didn't do it right.
I’m not gonna take the time to address everything you wrote since it’s too long, but yes you are entitled to your opinion and this is mine
have a good day mate
@@DahongLuke My point is proven exactly. That wasn't even the point of my claim, since most weren't just opinions. But to each their own perspective.
I will just say one thing which is that I am a big Gen III fan and I will admit that it has its flaws, but since this is a video about Gen II I chose to not discuss other generations otherwise that would turn into a video about what I dislike about each generation
maybe I’ll do that someday, though
The moment you call Cradily bad and say that dustox is worse than Beedrill you destroyed your whole position.
@@shinji136 Who really cares in Gen 3? Both Beedrill and Dustox are bad. Cradily isn't single player, I was looking at it competitively.
Idc what nobody says, Scarlet and Violet are the worst in the series and its not even close
Gold & Silver have aged kinda poorly but at least they were good when they came out
Scarlet and Violet arent even good now, imagine in 20 years, that shit garbage. Its actually overrated and underhated
eh I actually like Scarlet and Violet and would say that SwSh was worse by a solid margin *shrugs
@@DahongLuke I mena theyre fun games but they are still hot garbage. They dont hold up to 2023 AAA game standards. At least the second gen of Pokemon holds up to its release time.
@@lordinfernape4753I dont think so. I could mention 100 different games that were a lot better and more polished both in 1999 and even in the 80s, such as Earthbound, Final fantasy 1-9, Dragon Quest 3, etc
@@sebastiankulche It seems like you dont get what I mean
GSC look like 1999 games and even if its not the best game, I dont think anyone that played those games felt like playing an obsolete game or a game that coulda came out a decade before
SV on the other hand feels like a Nintendo gamecube game and im not talkin just about the graphics, the experience itself is outdated af.
Sure GSC has some level curve issues... what about SV lmao? You either get instantly destroyed by a gym leader or you just destroy them cuz ur overleveled af.
The pokedex? GSC only lacks in terms of new Jhoto Pokemon, but the game gives you the tools to beat it without overwhwelming you.
In SV, there are so many Pokemon accessible from the beginning yet they had the nerve to include the typical early game bugs and normal types, which are absolutely useless and not worth it in this context. You can just get a Houndoom as soon as you start, why bother using fkin Spidops, thats woirse than ledyba being bad in Silver...
Also GSC at least works, every 2nd gen bug needs a setup, SV just randomly crashes for no reason lmao. I watch a streamer who got his game crashed 7 times (1 off stream)
if SV came out in 1999 ofc it would be better, but GSC is better compared to other games of its era than SV. I dont even need to tell you I can name 100 games better than SV cuz by just saying "any AAA game" I just told u what games are better than SV. GSC was at least one of the best games of the GBC
@@lordinfernape4753 I dont know about SV because i didnt played any Pokemon game past XY minus Rescue Team DX, but they probably arent much better for what i saw so i agree in that.
Wrong, because leveling curve and balancing issues are some of the worst sins an RPG can have (is like if a racing game had terrible handling. Not matter if it has good tracks, graphics and cars, handling bad=game bad) and anyone who wants to make an RPG game should have that in their manual. Not matter if its today or 30 years ago. The Dragon Quest Monsters for the Gameboy did a way better job at making a less messy experience with the catch and battle mechanic.
And in my perspective, yes, i feel its outdated even when compared to both 1999 games or older ones, especially if you analyze all of its poorly implemented gimmicks like night and day cycle, two bare bones regions, internal clock, roaming Pokemon mechanic, etc. That is the definition of outdated.
They were epic for their time lol. Were you even born?
I was an infant lmao, but I did go back and play all the games when I was in high school
"Epic for their time"
Seems that you barely played any RPGs.
@@sebastiankulche I already know u have no idea about the formule what makes a game or rpg good. These were best in those years.
@@user-lv8lt8gu4g I could mention a ton of other games that are objectively better even in the early 90s or late 80s.
Before even watching the video, I have to disagree. Gen 1, 2 and 3 are the best gens.
You right except gen 2
You're blinded by nostalgia.
@@shinji136 no
@@Octopoess Yes, you are. Gen 1 is an unpolished mess, and Gen 2 is so dogshit that half of its gym leaders have to use Pokemon from Gen 1 as their aces.
@@shinji136 yeah gameplay wise the first gens are not the greatest, but they are still the best gens
And another video doing the same thing.
""""Handful of glitches""""