You'll often notice in bad children's movies like Wish that the villain actually has a valid point, but because the hero has no adequate rebuttal, the writers make the villain kick a puppy or something so that the audience doesn't have to think about pesky things like nuance.
Oh my god yeah. ‘So King Magnifico, you say you’re protecting the kingdom from evil wishes, but the one you demonstrate happens to be from the MC’s kindly old grandfather? Guess your point is invalid and actually everyone’s wishes are benevolent all the time’
That's how it felt when he suddenly started becoming super aggressive and commanding against his wife. Like they clearly liked each other and supposedly have been together happily since before the city of Rosa was even founded, but suddenly he's eeEeEviLl now and so he has to forget all of that and threaten her with violence. And now she's also okay with throwing all of that history away and working with a bunch of teenagers because he's evil suddenly. And her anguish over that is encapsulated in like two lines of the protagonist 'working together' song where she's like "guess he never actually loved me, oh well. I will certainly never regret trapping him for eternity" And it felt like such a copout that they were like "no this magic permanently corrupts peoples souls the instant they first start using it, he can't be talked to at all anymore" lol I specifically remember one line from the movie: "This reads like a recipie book for the foul and the savage", because it stuck out to me so much as WTF IS THIS DIALOGUE
@@safabekr Dude, this. The villain in Wish feels like a reasonable guy who is being uncharacteristically unreasonable about one thing so now he's an evil tyrant who must be stopped.
those doodoodoos make me irrationally angry for that exact reason. especially since you CAN have an upbeat villain song. think "be prepared" or, one of my personal favorites, "in the dark of the night" from anastasia. but the thing is, those songs, despite being upbeat, still have something menacing to them. without that, it just isnt a villain song. i didnt think the soundtrack from wish was _awful,_ (as in the beat of the songs themselves were pretty good, the lyrics were mainly the problem) but having a pop writer make the _villain_ song was a mistake. if the villain doesnt sound like a dramatic ass theater kid when they sing their song then whats the point.
@@IWADsarecool literally, it has such an upbeat and peppy instrumental when villain songs are usually supposed to be large and menacing, or hide a dark undertone like mother gothel's song. Pop was the worst choice for this song imo.
It's not just the song. The entire movie failed to make Magnifico a villain like you said, which is so weird because he could have easily been a great one. Just make him sick and tired of granting selfish wishes to the point he secretly develop a deep sense of hatred and distrust in his people, eventually leading to him punishing everyone regardless of how good their wishes are because he sees everyone as evil
Based on how the writers described him you would assume he was gonna be some mad Tyrant that spits on homeless people & steals candy from babies. Instead, what we got was a mildly narcissistic but ultimately altruistic Lord who provides for his people and is generally a good guy. Him hunting after the star for safety reasons was the final nail in the coffin. He's not evil, just rationally paranoid.
I actually really like your description of Magnifico as a villain. That version might have been able to stand beside the 90's villains. Too bad that's not what we got.
I'm surprised more people havent pointed out Moana. This song feels exactly like the mirror reflection of You're Welcome. Same vibe of an arrogant hero wanting appreciation for what they provided. Edit: man I came back because this made me think how even with its flaws, Moana is such a better movie than this. The dad's character arc is also kinda similar to magnifico in a way. "No one goes in the water because of the traumatic death that happened to me and my childhood best friend" sounds a lot like "no one else can use magic because they might destroy everything I built and love all over again" But Moana gets to reconcile with her dad and he recognizes where he went wrong, while Magnifico gets the shaft (literally and metaphorically, he gets locked in a staff for all eternity by his wife)
Also, a villain song should be thematically appropriate for the location or time. "Charging rent" is too modern of a term for a medieval fantasy setting.
Thank you. Let’s not forget “genetics” and “outer space.” Anachronisms yank viewers straight out of the story. They’re jarring and unimaginative. Yeah, characters like the Genie are going to make crazy references, but for many reasons that’s a special case. “Lion King” manages not to overtly reference the kind of material, human culture that makes no sense for a bunch of wild animals. Done right, using characters’ language and thought to evoke time and place is a delight and in the right hands it can be masterful in execution. Or you can spend millions making and marketing whatever “Wish” was.
If anachronisms are the issue then there's also one character being allergic to gluten, lyrics like "Boom! Did we just blow your mind?" and "When it comes to the universe we're all shareholders", and probably the use of the term "butt"...
@@edoboleynhumans have had some understanding of the of the cosmos for a long time, the first relatively accurate measurements of the moons distance from earth and it's size occured in the 100s BC so it's not inconceivable that a well educated person would understand some form of the concept of "outer space" . Still a bad song though.
This is an addition to Hellfire because I love that song and there is a detail I absolutely adore. In Hellfire Frollo is begging Maria and God to free him of the spell Esmerelda cast upon him. At this a guard enters the room, his silhouette is clad in moonlight and we can't see his face and he tells Frollo that Esmerelda escaped. At that point God gave Frollo his wish, we can interpret the guard as an angel sent down to tell Frollo that he is free, that if he chooses he can redeem himself. He was given the hand of salvation BUT HE REFUSES! He wishes and begs for this but when he sees the opportunity to be redeemed his true colors show the most and he goes in pursuit of her once more.
Why doesn't this comment has like a hundred likes??? This is brilliant! I love "Hellfire" to pieces and thought I had analysed any little tidbit of it, yet I never noticed that. Thank you!!!
An additional point is that Frollo specifically asks for Esmeralda to either be destroyed or to be his (neither of which are righteous desires), and God seemingly gives him a benevolent, righteous third option: since the guards have lost her, she is gone. If Frollo had wanted to be righteous, he could’ve stopped pursuing her, thus allowing her to live (mercy) while also resisting his lustful temptations. But by turning away from the (Angel) guard and telling him to get out, he is rejecting his last chance at salvation. Such good subtle storytelling, I miss when Disney still did this…
"Hellfire" isn't my favorite villain song, but when you combine it with the song that immediately precedes it, "Heaven's Light", that makes for one of my favorite _scenes_ in any Disney movie. It's not just Frollo's insane lust for Esmeralda, which he's unable to reconcile with either his religious impulses or his hatred of gypsies as a group, that makes that five minutes of musical theater brilliant; it's the _contrast_ between that feeling and Quasimodo's ineffable happiness at being lightly kissed by her that makes it so striking. Both of these men interpret her presence as a kind of light, but in totally opposite ways. To Quasimodo, who's been hated and despised his whole life (even by the man who raised him), Esmeralda's kindness is a sign of God's love and it uplifts him. To Frollo, who has led a life of power and privilege, her beauty represents the first thing he has wanted and cannot have, and this enrages him. Quasimodo and Frollo are so different that they interpret the same person in utterly conflicting ways, and the central irony of this is that Frollo raised Quasimodo and thought that he had successfully imposed his values on his "son". There's a reason that these two songs are lumped together as one track on the movie soundtrack. Alan Menken wrote these songs to be compared with each other, and they demonstrate a brilliant insight into both the appeal and the moral pitfalls of the Catholic faith. The entire soundtrack is brilliant, but "Heaven's Light/Hellfire" is its emotional peak. P.S. I'm sure you and lots of other people have noticed this, but the musical sting that introduces "Heaven's Light" has the same basic melody as the chorus of "Hellfire", except it's in a major key.
I played viola in my orchestra's stage production of Hunchback last September. I am absolutely in love with the Hunchback soundtrack and that moment is so intense.
Agree on all of this, although the praise for the lyrics should go to Stephen Schwartz, not Menken. He was the lyricist in the writing partnership for Hunchback, Menken was the composer.
@@emalaw1329 Yes, I understand that. I was mostly talking about the music or I would have brought Schwartz up. He's a brilliant lyricist who's particularly good at inventing original rhymes and making lyrics scan like a real conversation (kind of like Stephen Sondheim, actually). I particularly like his work in Pippin and The Magic Show as well as this movie.
the thing i loved about earlier disney movies is that they use music to convey intensity... some of my favorite movies of the older disney era shows that intensity... like, from the beginning of hunchback to the end, you can feel the intense emotions of every single character you see on screen because of the scores... god, i miss old disney...
"This is the Thanks I Get" feels like it should be villain song title for the Evil Step-Mother from Cinderella. I'm glad she never sings, it makes her colder that way, but oh BOY! You know it's be slow, building, malicious, and _*cold as ICE.* Oozing with hypocrisy and bitterness.
@@alchemistofsteel8099Onceler to Lorax: ”I’ve made wonderful thneeds that’s positively impacted society, and all you care about is a dumb little tree, and you’re mad at me? This is the thanks I get?” Idk I just got the idea in my head
i wish there was three songs in a row in the Lorax It starts with "How bad could i possibly be" than it transitions to "biggering" and ends with "This is the Thanks I Get"" @parkfever
The core concept is interesting, a villain who has done the bare minimum to help others losing their minds over the perceived ingratitude of those they've helped.
Lydia the Bard actually does a fantastic job in hindsight of transforming the Main Character’s songs that are meant to be more poppy and keeping these same feelings in the Princess Villain AUs she does. She knows when to lower the key to fit the vibe and can include the leitmotifs of the original songs intended for heroes. It’s an example of how you can use those original popy inspirations while creating a threatening tone.
@@thelittleredhairedgirlfrom6527I can’t believe I’m saying this honestly, but I agree with you 100%. If they switch up the lyrics to make it more evil, I feel like S&M would make a super intense pop inspired villain song and would have much more of an impact then whatever tf “This is the thanks I get” was. A regular Rihanna pop hit makes the actual Disney villain song sound like a soft love song.
"How Bad Can I Be?" from The Lorax walked, so "This is the Thanks I Get?" could stumble and fall. All jokes aside though, in an age that's vacant of Sideways, I'm really happy that you're filling that void. Really hope you get exposure in the future.
I'd wonder if This is the Thanks I Get would also have a much better draft version pop up eventually but Wish songs feel like first drafts with all the clunkiness in their lines.
@monstrous_maws It's not terrible but it's also a very safe, paint-by-numbers villain song. Compare it to Biggering, which was the original villain song for that movie
Weird fact: The creators of Frozen consider Love Is An Open Door to be a villain song, because Hans sings a lot of the lyrics, and because of the implication that he views the titular metaphor as "Marriage will get me into a kingdom of my own".
What grinds my gears the most is he isn't even a villain, they forced someone who made a utopia to become evil because someone threw a tantrum about who gets the right to grant wishes... This movie could have had great themes about how you must carry out your own dreams but there literally was no problems until someone forced problems to exist. Edit: that's a lot of likes 😳 Well because a lot of people have and will see this, stay civil and keep an open mind, this applies to everything :)
Like that was the whole point of Bruce Almighty! Sure, one guy shouldn’t have all that power, but being a yes man to a large population will always go wrong
@@thetiktokpenguin4343 I know that the story obviously wanted him to be a villain but it's cool to think about how the story is about a bunch of spoiled people living free... Unfortunately that's not the case 🥲
Magnifico is a benevolent dictator at worst imho, he has strict rules but they're there for a reason. Along comes Asha who disrupts this because her grandfather's vague af wish hasn't been granted.
She asked if he could just give the wish back if he was never going to grant it and he said no. He wasn't just "not granting wishes" he was forbidding people from pursuing wishes that could threaten his rule. It's very explicit, did you watch the film?
@SamFerree Its still a vague af wish though, "inspire people" inspire them to do what? Fallow their dreams, ok, it's innocent enough, but what if someone's dream is to overthrow the kingdom in a violent fashion them use Magnifico's magic to them do harm to others? Or inspire them to pursue the person they love by murdering their spouse? I'm using extremes here as an example, but you get the idea. "Inspire people" is vague and could invike the wrong feeling in people, it could inspire hate, fear, anger, lust, happiness, etc.
I reading an interview with Alan Menken (the guy who wrote the 90's songs). It was when he was brought back for Tangled. Someone asked if he was glad to be back at Disney, and he said something like: _I appreciate that they understand that it takes a special skill to write these songs. They could easily go out and hire any pop artist, but they know that it wouldn't be the same._ Clearly, he couldn't have been more right.
@@jamesnova745 He's always very positive about everything so we'll never really know how he feels. He gave an interview about the new little mermaid and how great it was working on the new songs. Like... really? You had fun writing Scuttlebutt?
@@Attmay That's not the vibe I get at all. He's mentioned that it's time for a generation of songwriters at Disney, and how The Little Mermaid wouldn't have been as successful if they'd hired well established songwriters. New talent is what keeps things fresh. He seems like a very positive person who's really happy with his career. He's 72 and rich so it's not like he's dying for more and more work.
That is the biggest PowerMove of an answer I ever heard "Are you glad to be working for Disney again?" "They certainly should be glad I'm back. I for one am glad they remembered who they belong to."
I'll be honest, when I first heard this song, I absolutely heard 'Footloose'. Specifically the lines, "This is the thanks I get" matching up to "Kick off the Sunday shoes". Maybe it's just me, but I can't unhear it, and it makes it sound even more like a fun, upbeat, pop-esk song, not a villain song.
5:12 hot take. A song can be a pop song and a villain song if done correctly. For instance, the How Bad Can I Be song from the Lorax is a catchy pop song but also a villain song that does well with its gleeful tone because it's whole point is to be blissfully ignorant/careless which is why the cheerful instrumentals and tone fits so well with it (even though personally I think they should have gone with the more ominous "Biggering" song that they ultimately axed in the end.)
I feel like the reason it didn't work for Magnifico is due to how different of a villain he is to Onceler, where Magnifico is presumably a pride-filled tragic villain who feels as if his efforts have been ignored by people like Asha. Given this sort of theme and the title, the happy-sounding instrumentation just sounds... weird?
@@cosmicandy4620 I think if the move was a little bit longer, or the pacing would be different (like cutting the town segments and other stuff) it would have worked. "How bad can I be" then would be a blissful/denial song that would start Onceler's decrease into a corporative villain with "Biggering" being him fully embracing it
I think the most egregious thing is that it’s so obviously made to be marketable. Unassuming, safe and bland as well as the perfect length to be played on the radio. It’s the audio version of the ‘cute’ sidekick, it only exists to sell merch, you could safely take them out of the movie and absolutely nothing would change.
Yeah but even at that it just failed. Let it Go did that too but it was a song that actually expressed what it wanted to express but this one just doesn't
this was my complaint of Frozen 2, it felt very radio oriented and marketable. But at least it's songs had substance in the movie. This is just the culmination of the path Disney has been going down for a while...
@@EskChan19Also Mulan's Reflection, Aladdin's A Whole New World, Pocahontas's Colors of the Wind. All pop songs that did a fantastic job, and both were good in the movie, and played extensively on the radio.
Hellfires imagery of Frollo trying to defend himself to a imaginary faceless audience is an indication of his internal guilt and insecurity. No one accused him of anything, yet he still feels the need to justify the beliefs that hes consistently reaffirming throughout the movie. Despite his outward confidence, He knows what he is doing is wrong but as usual the desires of the flesh take him over and the audience (his conscience) disappears. Dr facillier dances like a marionette to a counsel of spirits looking down on the humans while chanting a rhythmic march, foreshadowing the fact that he’s not the one in control. Mother gothel sings in a patient, condescending tone, negging her into feeling too naive and weak to leave while guilting her into believing she is responsible for mothers loneliness. She also exploits rapunzels many fears, trauma bonding her back to codependency.
An interesting detail of gothel's mother knows best, is the fact it has some kind of reprise later in the movie, where she gets more aggressive and manipulative after Rapunzel starts to stand by herself, which could be an interesting detail to this Gillian song too
For the infamous line: “I let you live here for free, I don’t even charge you rent.” could be fixed if it was something like this: “I let you live here for free, I would _never_ charge you rent!” That’s less of him saying the same thing twice and more of confirming what he just said further. And for the chorus (second one specifically) it could be something like this: “This is the thanks I get?” “Just something that I can’t expect!” “It’s this that I won’t forget!” “Why is this the thanks I get!?”
Like many other people, I feel like this movie should have stuck to the original concepts. If they had stuck to the queen also being evil, a villain song that’s a duet between the wicked king and queen about their plans and how evil (and in love) they are would have been amazing.
@@kriegermaria9923tbh that's one of the many ways this movie is poorly written, it's clear that they TRIED to make an irredimible villain like the classic ones, but due to the obvious incomplete nature of the film where they left a lot of ideas half-cooked and the poor world-building with the magic it basically left a villain that you can see what they were trying to make with him, but didn't because they didn't made up their minds about what they were doing with those ideas.
I like how throughout the first half of the movie magnifico is justified, not granting everyone’s wish because of the chaos it could cause and being pissed off when nobody cares that there’s a traitor among them and instead being more concerned about a wish ceremony. *But the movie just said “f*ck you.” And made him evil*
I watched the movie in my native language (Danish) and my only complain was that it was quite pop-y and not what i expected out of a villain song. I went and found the song in danish and pretty much all the horrible lyrics have been changed to propper rhymes, smarter phrases, allegories and imagery. And example would be he sings *translated* "i let you live here for free, (if you) say please and thank you, then thats good/all i need/enough'.
the line "genes from outer space" only works to solidify my headcanon that magnifico was a fallen star that was captured by the queen, would've been so much better than anything we got
I also think he could have been......racist 👹👹👹👹 ok here me out rn I haven't watched the movie, but he could have gone full dictator, like he doesn't even grant wishes he just changes things about people's lives to make them satisfied, and to never question his power. Here's where the RASCISM kicks in 👹👹👹👹👹 like perhaps he keeps the kingdom walled off and full of propaganda of how he is superior and they should all listen to him because of it. Mabye changing the "genes from outer space" line to "genes from a superior race" would be smth idk. And so it's mostly about Asha realizing how totalitarian the kingdom is. Or something, idk.
Remember how the queen was also a Villain? What if the reason that king magnifico seems to be going into both the "understandable"/tragic villain and the batshit insane is because... Well, that was their original dynamic and they combined their scenes into this version magnifico.
Can you explain it? I don't get it. I've not watched glee but I assume it has something to do with it? I was wondering what was derogatory about the statement, derogatory means a negative, right? So is she saying that's a bad thing?
@@bradleybrown8428it just means “generic pop with no soul or personality behind it”. And this song kind of gives off this vibe: oddly joyful and celebratory for no reason... Glee is not that bad, it’s just that the covers have a very particular and recognizable sound that is most of the time pretty boring and poor compared to the originals
The one thing I love about villain songs is that they’re aware that they’re evil or are totally focused on what they want personally regardless of whether it’s right or wrong and the collateral damage it will cause to everyone else. They make it clear it’s all about them and they even enjoy who they are, where instead the villain in Wish just denies everything. He’s just not that interesting.
The sad thing is that he actually IS the most interesting character in this movie - because he has a hint of background story and a concrete “want” (keep Rosas safe at all costs). But compared to other villains? Yeah no. Doesn’t stand a chance.
Well you don't have to be over-obviously or right-on-the-nose with your villainy to be good. But it's just that Wish is a bad movie, so any variation is probably gonna suck lol
TBF, Hellfire from Hunchback of Notre Dame is literally Frollo going "It's everyone else's fault! I'm just a holy man fighting temptation brought on by unholy sinners!" Songs where the villains throw blame to everyone else are fun when done right.
@@TheBonkleFox Agreed, though some of the lyrics do seem to acknowledge that Frollo recognizes on some level that what he's doing is wrong, but he keeps trying to justify himself. Which in a good number of ways only heightens his evil from a Christian perspective because acknowledging sin is necessary to confess and thus begin to redeem oneself for their transgressions.
Chris Pine as a Disney Villain sounds like a match made in heaven, but with Wish, he got a script that couldn't decide between sympathetic tragedy and scenery chewing pure evil
Nah, Chris Pine was always a match made in Hell as a Disney villain. The guy has zero intimidation factor. Despite being roughly the same age as Magnifico in appearance, he still sounds like a mid-twentysomething, which drastically cuts into his capacity to inspire fear in an audience. There's a reason why villains have historically been played by baritones and basses in musicals and operas (Scar and Claude Frollo are both baritones): the voices are "darker" in color, more gravelly in texture, and more booming in production than tenors, the best of which are light, ringing, and metallic (the go-to comparisons are gold, silver, or steel). Worse still, Pine's tenor isn't even a good one; it's ordinary and bland, more fitting for a comprimario (secondary casting, basically) than a main lead, and especially not a main _villain_ lead.
Chris Pine delivered an enjoyable performance but I honestly feel an actor with a more rumbling voice (like Patrick Page or Brian Stokes Mitchell) would fit the character better
It’s kind of like setting up Rameses from Prince of Egypt, but giving him the personality of Gaston from Beauty and the Beast or Jack Horner from Puss in Boots 2. I mean, come on it just doesn’t match.
It's not even like you can't make a poppy sounding villain song still work. See "You'll Be Back" from _Hamilton_ which sounds like a Beatles song. The lyrical dissonance works to highlight how psychopathic and insane King George is.
I feel like Ernesto's version of Remember Me kinda count too, cuz it's the context that makes it a villain song. It's where you find out that 1) it was stolen from Hector, who Ernesto killed, 2) It was supposed to be a special song to Hector's daughter that no matter the distance, he'll always love his daughter and 3) The implication that Ernesto either didnt care about or didnt care to know the context of the song and just used it for another poppy love song/ego boost
@@ifeeldead463 Ernesto's version of "Remember Me" is a great villain song that only becomes such when the twist is revealed. It shows how truly self-absorbed and evil Ernesto is that he twisted the words of a melancholic song about a troubled man singing to his daughter to remember his memory into a bombastic ego-stroking boast.
The real King George III was a mentally broken man deeply affected by the lost of his two infant songs and adult daughter. I’m surprised Miranda didn’t go for more of a ballad for him.
The overwhelming pop-ness of all the songs in Wish make me yearn for the time when Disney did Broadway-inspired songs. Especially for a movie that branded itself as the “100th anniversary tribute” to the history of Disney movies and not a scrap of Broadway style is in the songs. Makes me imagine a Wish that’s true to its promise of an actual tribute to both classic and modern Disney
I totally disagree with everyone who thinks that a bouncy pop song can't also make for a thrilling villain scene. Shiny is RIGHT THERE, guys. And it was even more terrifying because of his JOY at causing them suffering and turmoil, and his self involvement. The disconnect WORKED. And I for one would love to see more of it. This is the Thanks I Get was an absolute trashfire that wasted a good title tho, we can all agree there.
Don't forget "How bad can I be?", too a very catchy pop song that also works as a villain song because the whole point is that the onceler being blissfully ignorant to the damage he's causing
My favorite villain song is Be Prepared. It literally used to scare my brother when we were kids, so he’d ask us to skip it when we listened to the soundtrack. THATS what villain songs should do.
When my 3 yo niece watched The Lion King and saw Scar for the first time, she told my sister "that lion is really ugly". Villains back then had such a prescence that even a toddler could tell they were evil just by their first appearance and mannerisms. Magnifico with his sympathetic backstory and all white attire is not going to intimidate anyone.
Oh, and I loved this song as a kid so much that I sang it everywhere and more, than other Lion King's songs😂 But Zira's Lullaby scared and amazed me, I loved Scar, but I was absolutely terrified of Zira...
There was an unused song for Tangled that did what this song was trying to do, but with better execution. It's called "After All That I've Done For You" if I remember correctly. It would have likely taken the role Mother Knows Best did. If you take a listen, you'd likely see what I mean. Both songs try to go for a manipulative, "I do all of this for you, and you act like this? You're ungrateful." tone. After All That I've done for you was written to be a villain song. It feels threatening. Even in the demo recording (which is on UA-cam somewhere) has excellent voice acting. The song's examples of "Benefits" for the victim (Rapunzel, in this case) work well, as Mother Gothel lists how she feeds Rapunzel and shows her love, and tells her wanting to leave is ungrateful. This song feels like it's trying to do that, but that's a hard feeling to get in a pop song. Plus, the reasons end up being redundant. Those redundancies could have been replaced with other ways Magnifico benefits his kingdom given the limited words in a song. Also, the whole "not granting wishes that are dangerous" thing fails as a motive. That sounds more like common sense than evil. Maybe he could have used it as an excuse instead, and the truth could have been that more privileged people get their wishes granted, and the less privileged get put to the side? Idk, all of this seems very disappointing for a 100 year anniversary film. How did Disney fail a *villain song?*
Great find! I listened to it and it's an interesting song. I can see why they didn't use it in the final version, but it definitely has a similar vibe to what they clearly wanted for the Wish villain song.
Magnifico fails too. They say he is evil bla bla bla bla yet he is a good king, makes the good wishes come true instead of the evil wishes and boom the movie makes him the villain just because the kingdom waits for their wishes instead of working hard or enjoying what they have 😒
Like, it was really easy for magnifico's excuse to not grant "dangerous" wishes would be that those kinds of wishes grant alot of magical power. Hell! He could Even lie about the cursed book and it's revealed that it doesnt make You evil, because he's been using it for ages and he was just this much of an asshole all along.
In my opinion, Magnifico's mistake was to get easily caught up in anger and resentment, on the one hand he has reason to vent because his subjects seem like capricious children who do not see their wishes fulfilled. Because, as Magnifico himself says, when a desire threatens Rosas he does not fulfill it, and on the one hand he is also right to do so. But on the other hand, his mania for control over others, his selfishness and thirst for power took over and he allowed himself to be corrupted by dark magic in order to maintain power, to the point of killing both Star and Asha leading to a terrible fate. However, in my opinion, the character of Magnifico can be well exploited because I see him as more than a simple villain, because if they make a sequel I would like him to be represented as a tragic hero who he had to do evil deeds to survive, and I would like to know more about his past . And that with Magnifico's passing, Queen Amaya sheds the mask for what she is, that is, the villain behind everything who secretly wanted to dethrone Magnifico to take power, as she is jealous of his magical gifts who saw Asha as someone to manipulate, to rise to power. And I would also have kept some concept art from the original film such as Star as a shape-shifting being who takes on human form, and becomes Asha's love interest.
“It’s sounds like a Glee cover(derogatory)” That is my new favorite sentence. How do I give you money for making my walk back home from work less painful by making me burst out laughing?
What absolutely shocks me is that a villain holding people hostages via their wishes could potentially be the greatest Disney antagonist ever. Imagine for instance if we discovered that Magnifico has made his people believe that he can really their every desire, like bringing back their late loved ones, and thus people know he is evil but acquiesce out of hope. How much more powerful would the story be, also as regards to his relationship with Asha?
But they forget their wish so this would actually be a win for the king. Imagine wishing your loved one was back and it destroying your life because it can't happen. The the king takes all of the pain away and you forget about wanting them to rise from the dead or forget your pursuit of time travel or even the pursuit of revenge.
@@Vegan32 then we go back to the main flaw of the movie: the only person we ever see depressed/stupefied because of this is Simon. Every one else just seems to enjoy a normal life. Magnífico could be a powerful metaphor for very mature themes (I was thinking of drugs when I watched the movie), but he completely seems to lack the dehumanizing effect to prove Asha's point
@francescorobustelli4775 exactly. I felt Simon was more of a guy that had 1 thing that he talked about and when he made his wish he was blah because it was all he was. And since he was suppose to be the sleepy dwarf I felt like it also was lost that he was "depressed". This movie could have been amazing if they would have just done some sort of focus group
I’ve seen that comment section, they’re saying things like “WE’RE GETTING OUT OF THE GOOD MOVIE ZONE WITH THIS ONE 🔥🔥🔥” and “WE’RE GOIN OUT OF THE THEATERS WITH THIS ONE 🔥🔥”
You know it’s bad when sharpey’s villain song “fabulous” from high school musical 2 is more effective as a villain song even though it is also a pop song
I wanna share that the Latam Spanish version of the song which is the one i saw in theaters does a better job at salvaging it. The va really goes out of his way to give it a more musical rather than popy performance, the chorus also introduces some variations in the lines and most importantly the meme line about the rent makes sense since in the translation they use the word "free" in the "freedom" sense rather than in the "no charge" sense so the line translates to something like "I let you live in freedom and i don't even charge rent" which again actually makes sense.
They did their best to salvage the song and the dub is great but still the core history is broken as fuck is a shame because the characters desing is nice and having a kind of likable and a new gaston like villian is nice.
@@HIDHIFDB for sure the movie is still pretty bad but I just find it interesting that I got out of the theater thinking that Magnifico's song was one of very few things I thought it was not too bad just to find that the English version is apparently dog shit
Makes sense. Sometimes I prefer the Latine dubs of anime than the American ones. Not only do they tend to be more accurate, especially for the time, their covers of the Japanese songs are bangers. I still listen to the Mirmo Zibang opening cover to this day.
I love it when foreign language dubs do better than the og English. I mean in this case I don't because it means the English version was lousy, but it's good to know other languages actually try. As a Bulgarian, it feels so good when a show, especially a song is translated and dubbed well. So far, "Goodbye" from TAWOG is imo the best translated song in a cartoon series. Generally, the songs from the big Disney movies get translated well, from Let it Go to Prince Ali.
The thing is, you CAN make a disassociated hero turned into a jaded villain work, but it requires the new hero to be wrong at some point and both of them meet midway. You CAN make a villain have a pop song, you just gotta be far riskier and go all in. Hell you can even make 'this is the thanks I get' sounds really cool, because it is ABSOLUTELY loaded with the gaslighting vocabulary that a narcissistic parent would use. Disney had no excuse for making such a bland movie, these were all ingredients that were EASILY usable into something VERY interesting, fun, quirky, and GOOD. They just... went into a boring formula. In movie making, Formulas are a great way to give a story a skeleton... but if you stick way too hard to it then all you got is a skeleton with some sharpie drawings on it.
Magnifico's real issue is lack of presentation. He's narcissistic but he also has a weirdly sympathetic side and had been basically reasonable til the movie's inciting incident. Hell he didn't even have an evil side, narcism barely counts, til he opened that book. It's like they still wanted to do a "twist villain" but failed to execute it on even a fundamental level.
I couldn’t understand him as a villain because they went all in on his initial motive to build a new world with his wife after his old one was destroyed and he just wants to protect everyone since he lost his precious family. It doesn’t make sense that he would later do something that would destroy the world he worked so hard to create and also just no longer seem to have love nor basic empathy for his queen who was with him through hell. Even if they wanted to write him doing a 180 it just felt like one minute he’s good but then the minute afterwards he’s a villain just because he has to be for the plot.
One thing I want to point out that’s been really bugging me about this song: Magnifico says in the song that he granted 14 wishes last year…but he grants a wish a month. The film straight-up retconned itself
He added two more months to the calendar, humans definitely wrote this movie there were no AIs behind it please give us money we bombed so hard that the entirety of Australia has been reduced to a crater frowny face :(
He's literally being lenient about his own rules, he granted 2 extra wishes last year, outside of a wishing ceremony that occurs each month. And song plays him like he's being a frugal cheapskate.
*I am so glad to see Sofia the First Appreciation! Yes, the villain’s songs in Sofia the First are great and they fit each of the major (more overarching) villains and the minor villains' personalities and motivations.* •Some of the villain songs I can remember at the time of my head are Cedric the Sorcerer songs (well I guess he is more of an Anti-Hero throughout Sofia the First), His songs:Cedric the Great & My Evil Dreams, I am sure I am missing more. •Also, I remember the villain Princess Ivy’s A Kingdom of My Own Song and Amber (who Sofia’s Stepsister, even though she is technically not a villain, she has a great villain-type of song-Bigger is Better)
“This is the thanks I get” is such a great title and it would be so easy to make a compelling villain and villain song out of Magnifico. Imagine if Magnifico’s whole deal was that he was a good king, but tending to the constant demands of his unthankful people exhausted and drained him, until he finally snapped and went full villain. Imagine if this was about Magnifico’s pent up fury after years of being dismissed by the people he granted wishes to over. Imagine if this movie was about learning to appreciate the people around you, to understand them, to be thankful for what you have, and to strive for more on your own. This movie could’ve been so good, but unfortunately they got ai to write the scripts and pop writers to write musical theatre
hell could have been even more, him over worked trying to do his best to give people what they wants but they keep demanding more and more and more, but he just can't keep up then when a girl just ask him something he just isn't able to answer, and she loses her shit on him. he finally snaps and goes, "Fine you ungrateful brat, you think im mean for not doing this I'll show you mean." as he just brings hell down on the people, and the girl has to go on a journey to learn to apprecaite what she has and calm the angered king.
I think “Everyone Loves Gaston” is more of LeFou’s and the village’s song for him to establish that the village admires him greatly and will blindly follow through anything he does and say Which is why when we do get to “Kill the Beast” we already know Gaston has that much influence over the people to create the mob
Agreed. I think people assume 'Gaston' is a villain song just because it's sung by the villain but it's more of a character establishing song; villain songs usually delve into the villain's motivation and relationship with the hero, but 'Gaston' mostly establishes that he's comically macho and the town loves him. 'Mob Song' is when they establish motive and intent and threat. It could also be argued that, while Gaston is not a nice person, the real villain of Beauty and the Beast is the society, which instills expectations and prejudice. Belle herself is considered a weirdo, without a proper place in the town, and only when she's bonding with the Beast does she find somebody of like mind, and it's the town which consigns Maurice to the nuthouse because Gaston (who is traditionally attractive, handsome, and manly) insists Maurice (who is eccentric and an outsider to the town) is crazy. It's the town who are whipped into a frenzy because, as they say, "We don't like what we don't understand / In fact it scares us". Gaston might be the leader of the mob, but it's the whole town that comes together against the Beast.
I'm an artist and my sister is a writer. After watching Wish, we dissected the visuals and storytelling of Wish to death trying to figure out why it didn't work and feels so soulless, but we don't have much music experience so all we could say is that they were bland and repetitive. Watching this explained so much and unfortunately it echoes a lot of what we found; it's trying to cash in on the beats of what a Disney film is without knowing why those beats work. It wants a traditional Disney villain without having the guts to make a hammy, delightfully evil figure. It wants a classical fairy tale story without having the sincerity to go through with it. It wants pure of heart characters while gutting them with quippy one-liners a marketing expert said children like. It has no identity of its own without even engaging with what the classic Disney identity is. I just... how could they make a musical without writing actual musical theatre numbers? They must have known that wouldn't work. I'm sure the songwriters are skilled, but clearly this was out of their trained skillset
Take for example the heroines friends. THey are modeled after the 7 dwarves with them each having the same personality traits as their defining characteristics ... but that's it. Nothing is really done with this and it's done without any real purpose beyond "Hey we put in a reference". It reaks of lazy coporate execs who just mandated classic disney elements be mixed into the movie without thoughts as to why they were classic.
@@andmos1001 While the director has a lot of influence, clearly, Disney films are famously bogged down by executive influence. A lot of the film was controlled by studio mandates to make it similar to other Disney films
You’re not wrong lol, I heard they didn’t even get people who have worked in musical theatre number to do this😂 They literally got songwriters who have written songs for *pop* artists.
My big issue with the song is the choice of instrumentation, which is always integral in creating an effective villain song. Be Prepared used a bombastic orchestra, truly befitting for a king, Friends on the Other Side uses haunting spiritual voices to portray a twisted voodoo conman, and Hellfire uses a massive choir to make the song feel like a corrupted hymn. This is the Thanks I Get, however, just uses basic pop song instrumentation, making it feel far too generic to stand out.
Dude have you listened to “Open up your eyes” from My little Pony? Or even Ready as I’ll ever be, which functions as both a hero ramp up and a villain song (it’s fantastic). Idk man Disney dropped the god damn ball
I was very confused when Magnifico began singing his "villain" song because up until that point, I didn't see him as the bad guy. He was an antagonist sure but evil? His people genuinely loved him. Asha sings about how wonderful he is at the start of the movie. He sings about how he's willing to use others to achieve his goals but there had been no evidence to show that. It felt so disjointed from what I watched. And the song didn't even really explain anything either - just made him sound like a narcissistic prick who's always been that way and people are just cool with it.
it was like he was possessed during that section because narcissists may act like good people, yeah i get that but its always evident in how they treat people. The dude was thoughtful and kind. He didnt even have to grant wishes. Narcissists are selfish and indifferent.
@@sapphirestar3978 My father has npd. I know first hand what narcissistic people are like and yeah nah, Magnifico was not a narcissist. Not in the first half of the movie.
Yes! Another thing to add, Queen Amaya and Magnifico were going to be a villain couple. They were going to sing a song together and everything! But instead, people actually see that the villain has a point and they defaulted to making him a "kicked a dog" kind of villain. When fans got access to what the film could have been, let's just say a lot of people were disappointed. As you said Disney was too afraid to take risks and really make the film(and villain) memorable because they needed it to be marketable. Wish just doesn't feel like it was made by humans or with any care like past movies(and villains).
i havent seen this movie, but from what you said about him worrying about an outside threat, i get the impression that a better song for him would be agonizing over whether to use that magic book to protect his people or not, and knowing the consequences if he does, eventually talking himslef into using it and being corrupted by the magic. disney gets a sympathetic villain, a fun song, redeemed bad guy, yadayadayada, happy ending for everyone and money for disney.
Even in a very flawed movie like Pocahontas, Savages is still a standout. The lyrics are very on the nose, but they're strong and show blind hate and prejudice can bring the worst out of people. The usage of color is stunning, and it drives the story forward too. It's kind of sad how old Disney at their worst is still better than what most of modern disney puts out.
Say what you will about the story/historical inaccuracies of Pocahontas, but damn did they put in the effort into the music. I could write a whole essay on why Savages is such an incredible song, but you laid it out very concisely. Incredible lyrics paired with phenomenal singing and voice acting(The delivery of "I wonder if they even bleed" still gives me chills) created an horrifyingly realistic song about the blind fear and hatred sowed by fear or the unknown and reaped by willful ignorance.
Ya. This song was pretty dull, lyrics made very little sense, but the worst part was the visuals during the song. It was boring. It wasn't interesting to look at, the choreography was just uninteresting and it had very little energy. Zira's villian song from the straight to video, "the lion king 2" is so much better than this snoozer.
@@bethanywallace8575 honestly, what made Zira's Lullaby stand out to me is when you think about it in hindsight and context. Like, the image of baby Kovu somehow soundly asleep while his mom is loudly plotting Simba's downfall is hilarious, like guy has grown to be a heavy sleeper or fall asleep to evil theatre productions.
Excluding the parts of the song where he sings about being possesed by dark magic, this song feels like a arrogant hero song for filler to show the audience how arrogant the hero is but still show them in a good light because magnifico WAS a good guy, or neautral. Before the getting possesed by magic part. Him turning evil because of a magic book HE let use him makes him seem corrupted or stupid or both.
It's a trope I've seen a couple times and hate: Both sides have a point, so to ensure that you root for the right side, the antagonist grabs the artifact of doom and turns evil. It doesn't really resolve the debate so much as openly replace the "wrong" side with a strawman. Not only is it cheap, but it means that instead of having a villain who's an actual person, the *real* villain is the evil object controlling him (in this case, the book), which isn't at all an interesting villain.
I mean they throw him later in dungeon his wife cold cut ties with him im like what like she dont care at all for him he was possesed After all corrupted by that book
He knew what the book would do to him, so that's why he kept it in a vault. By choosing to use it at all, he essentially threw away what little humanity he had left.
To give more context to my point. You know in movies when the protagonist fails at something and gets frustrated and vents in the form of a song? This is that. He isn't doing an evil monologue or trying to convince others. He's just a guy who had a bad day and is venting. That's it.
"This is the Thanks I Get" had the potential to be an amazing song. It's a title that sounds bitter, like a character who actually was doing the right thing, but turns down the wrong path because people turn against him for it. But then it...wasn't. Honestly, the chorus annoys me most of all. Put it in a minor key, take out the "doo doo doo" backing vocals, and have "get" go up instead of down, and it actually could sound somewhat sinister. But as is, it sounds celebratory. He doesn't sound like he's saying "how dare they not be more grateful," he sounds like he's saying "woohoo! I get thanks!"
I bet the artists planned to at least perform it that way, but the execs changed it on purpose, to keep it from sounding too much like a villain song. The same treatment they gave to the rest of the song, forcing it to still sound like a cheerful pop song they think kids will wanna bop along to on the radio.
I think a thing that could have worked is if during the bridge Magnifico sounded angry as fuck. If they really wanted to keep the silly backing vocals, they could've at least tried to make a dissonance between the "happy people" Magnifico helps and Magnifico himself, maybe building on the fact that he thinks they never thank him enough. Instead his voice just... goes with the pop song vibe
So you're telling me the only two people that wrote this musical theatre song were two pop song writers who haven't worked on these movies before?? That's like if sonic forces only had two level designers, one who only worked on lost world and one with no prior sonic experience. Oh wait.
I feel bad for saying it because I'm sure Chris Pine is giving it his all, but during the chorus, it seems like he's trying to yell while not being allowed to have any edge to his voice. It makes it sound like a Smash Mouth song. Not exactly intimidating.
imo villian songs work better when its sung lower (even with female villians- look at mother knows best) they have that they had chris sing higher is just setting him up for failure even without the lyrics
I remember thinking his first time meeting Asha was sweet and he came off genuinely likable. Even felt bad for him when Asha immediately asked for a wish. It would’ve been so interesting to have Asha be his apprentice and genuinely care about him only for his paranoia and fear to be his downfall. I’d be up for a tragic villain
'I'm passionate, I'm not petulant' could technically bear the meaning that Magnifico is upset that his passion(ate...ness) gets confused with rudeness. Like, he wants to emphasize: he's not being rude when doing something straightforward or unconventional, but rather it's because of his passion
I watched this movie with my little cousin, she is literally six, and when the movie ended she looked at me and went “That was bad.” She usually gets up and dances around during villain songs and I’m not a huge fan of kids but she’s absolutely adorable. This song? I looked down at her every now and then and she just looked confused, sure it’s because she didn’t understand some words like Omnipotent, but it’s also because… it just isn’t a good villain song. She hasn’t heard Hellfire yet, but she’s heard Be Prepared, Kill the Beast, and Mother Knows Best and she loves every one of those.
Ask her seriously about Hunchback of Notre Dame. It's a very, verry dark movie and I know not all kids will take it easily. But it's a great movie with, I think, only one song I don't like in it.
@@BrokensoulRider I remember hearing it as a kid and getting weird, scary vibes from it. I didn't exactly know what it meant, but I knew what catcalling and things like that were.
@@BrokensoulRider watched when i was younger aswell, probably shouldn't have known about Frollo's whole "lust" thing but i did and that made hellfire so great for me as a kid.
@@BrokensoulRiderI literally saw that film in theaters in that age and it was a core memory for me. It's still one of my favorite Disney films to this day.
I have to be honest, but this song when I listen to it always seems to be something I'd expect to hear from a hero that's become jaded after people take advantage of them one too many times... that's not what I want in my villain song and I can't believe Disney did that! Thank you for making this video, though, it was a lot of fun to watch.
While I personally have a soft spot for King Magnifico and this song, that sounds like a good idea; I can imagine a few heroes who've had that problem (especially when they turn against them too many times) that would be perfect for that scenario.
As a writer, it's a very good idea in concept, but the execution could be handled much better. A more slower and layered descent into madness would help that, and I think it could have even been conveyed in the song with its cheery beginning progressing into a more intense and demented ending (which seems to be a problem mentioned in the video). It's not even the first to attempt it, though I would love to see more mainstream media tackle it with more skill :D
@@gokuandmario4evermaybe on paper they aimed at him reaching villainy, but on a screen he really is just a mishandled hero. Villains in Disney take and take, and take some more, without a thought about people around them. Magnifico literally gave people a whole kingdom where they live perfect lives in a fair, transparent exchange for their heart's desire. And he even takes care of their pain of loss after he'd taken a wish.
I had the same feeling with "At All Costs." I heard the song without context and I thought it was a love song (especially the demo version), which I thought was weird since because it was Magnífico and Asha singing. I looked up the scene where this song is sung and I was surprised and confused that they were singing about wishes? Maybe it will make sense when I watch the movie but it's like Disney didn't want a good love song for Star and Asha to go to waste so they used it about wishes instead. All these songs have a different feeling than the context in which they are used
I love listening to people who know about music explain why a song doesn’t sound good. Like I can hear it, but I can’t put it into words why it sounds off to me.
You know the “live here for free don’t charge you rent” would have worked if instead they changed it to “I let you live carefree and I don’t even charge you rent” LIKE DUDE THAT TOOK ME THREE SECONDS TO COME UP WITH AND ITS SUCH A SIMPLE CHANGE WHAT THE HECC
I think the most frustrating part of the song is the end where it feels like the moment where he goes to the book is going to be an interesting turning point for the book, to allow the villain to drop the mask and be threatening to his true grievances. But NO it’s an immediate set up for a joke about how “lmao awkward” it was that he was so invested in the cured book. And then he just goes back to the other tone from the rest of the song, as if it was such a bad idea for him to start being more vocal in his feelings. It’s a big problem with the number, the villain doesn’t show himself as threatening or in control. He tells us he is. It’s a villain song that doesn’t build up any seriousness for the villain. It’s frustrating because the difference major and minor keys could’ve been used to tell a story about his impressions to the people versus how it is in reality.
Another difference I've noticed is that it's not singing to anyone. Most of the other villain songs could play off that persona because they were directing that persona to the protagonist or to an audience (or, in the case of Hellfire, an imaginary audience). In Wish you just get a complainer song- relating the goals of the antagonist very shallowly, without any pushback, performance, or expectation from the presence of any other characters in the scene.
I've been obsessed with the Princess and the Frog movie and Facilier's song, yet only through your video have I learnt that the print on the wall becomes skulls when his shadow touches it.. I'm just BLOWN AWAY, wow, the level of detail here is amazing
"Friends On The Other Side" is what convinced me to watch The Princess and the Frog. Doc Facilier doesn't get quite as much characterization as I'd like throughout the rest of the movie, but what a brilliant entrance.
Main villain song from wish: why do you Disney fans do not see me as the villain? Me: because you’re not quite evil enough, you’re semi-evil, you’re quasievil, you’re the margarine of evil, you’re the Diet Coke of evil, just one cannery, not even enough!
Even the Home on the Range's villain song "Yodel Adle Eedle Idle Oo", does feel like a villain song. The hammy-ness of the yodeling vocals in contrast to the high acid colors when hypnotizing the cows, it is more of a villain song number compared to This is The Thanks I Get.
I personally liked it - he's cheerful because in his eyes, he's winning. he's almost got every cow to sell and every farm is owned by him. The scary part is that every cow is under his control. Imagine not realizing that you're taken away, not able to do anything. It's terrifying; whilst for your kidnapper, they're happy that it works.
"villains should be as villaious as their heroes are heroic" Love this line. We go to the movies to escape at the end of the day so with that villains should be evil in a way that kinda helps push that escapism. So long as it's written well, a villain that's evil for the sake of being evil can be a fun way to help lean into the escapism a movie provides A good example that comes to mind is Jack Horner from the new puss in boots movie. You get a character not afraid to be reprehensible and it's done in a over the top way that helps really propel the movie forward in how entertaining it is
“Evil for the sake of evil” still sucks. They have to have at least a simple motive. Most classic Disney villains do bad shit out of Spite, Greed, or Ego. Jack Horner’s motive is to fill the black hole where his soul should be
@@cosmicspacething3474evil for the sake of evil Can be a good motive Pleasure or hatred are usual factors (I hate this thing so I’ll destroy it no matter how many die in the process or I love to cause pain so much I’ll make everyone suffer) can be good motives for the sake of evil But the problem isn’t evil being the motive, but not having a motive Is like if you put scar killing he’s brother and taking over without showing how much he resents him or how much pleasure he hopes to gain after taking the throne Some villains don’t need a motive since some are just wild monsters which destroy because that’s their nature like the red death of HTTYD But if we put a villain and don’t show WHY he’s doing it (not even show how much he enjoys doing evil) then is a bad motive
Does anyone else find it rather telling that Wish came out right around the time that the writer’s strike was ending? Meaning, that the majority of the movie’s production must have took place while all of Disney’s usual writers were still on strike?
For a guy who says he’s passionate, there’s no real passion or evil energy behind the song. “Be Prepared” and “Hellfire” were loud and powerful, they built up and got more threatening. “Poor Unfortunate Souls” sounded sharp and cunning, especially in the line “Go ahead. Make your choice.” Ursula is raising her voice and being angry at Ariel for not deciding yet. “Mother Knows Best” fit the vibe of someone who’s only pretending to care. It sounding kind, but being full of scary things. “This Is The Thanks I Get?!” has no passion or energy to it. He’s basically just talking to no one. He doesn’t sound angry, it sounds more like slight annoyance at best. No offense to the actor who did this, it’s not his fault. It’s the writer and producer’s fault for writing this terrible song and having him preform it this way.
There is one Sherman brother left, and how many times have they actually hired him to create something since his brother died? A song for *Christopher Robin,* some new *Bedknobs and Broomsticks* songs for the stage version (with new collaborators), and nothing else but a bunch of personal appearances and the occasional Blu-ray interview.
Disney really dropped their song game since Tangled. My sister and I rewatched it a few days ago and the difference between Mother knows best and the reprise really hit me like a truck, because in neither does Gothel actually drop her facade, but both feel very threatening to the audience. And Magnifico doesn’t show any threat, even in the ‘evil’ part of the song
Yeah does ANYONE care about any Disney song after tangeled? I think the one I've seen get the most attention since is the REJETED villain song from the Lorax. It wasn't a crappy pop song and was instead a melodic peace that went HARD during it's last part. THey rejected that and went with an irritating song that is catchy enough to get stuck in your head ... but you don't really want it in there because overall it just feels like an okay pop song and isn't something that sticks with you. IF you haven't seen it look up "biggering". A lot of people think it was rejected because it did too good a job at calling out coprorate for their bullshit so the executives axed it.
@@metazoxan2 Honestly, both Moana's and Encanto's songs were really good in my opinion. They don't sound as generic as pop music and Surface Pressure was actually amazing. But maybe I'm biased because it's Lin Manuel Miranda
@@Picky_pidgeon Oh yeah I guess Moana was after Tangled ... but while Moana's songs were decent. It's closest thing to a villain song "Shiny" was honestly terrible. I could barely understand some of the lyrics because of the sound balancing. The most memorble song was "You're welcome" and it's more because of how it was notable off key but still kinda good. I can't say I recall Encanto's song off the top of my head so I won't comment on that one. But still even if some songs are ... decent they pale in comparison to the iconic ones of the past and none of them are villain songs. So even taking those two movies into account there is a severe villain song drought at Disney.
@@metazoxan2 The thing with Shiny may just be an issue with the dubbing, in my native language it's honestly amazing, same with You're Welcome. As said in the cideo, both Moana and Encanto don't really have a villain and that might be a problem, Room where it Happens is proof that the writer is capable of writing a memorable villain musical number. And that's what's missing in Wish - the drama of musical theatre
Hilariously, a good Disney-esque villian song in recent months is from the R-rated comedy musical Hazbin Hotel, which had the absolute banger: "Hell is Forever"
I think the perfect Disney villain song is World's Greatest Criminal Mind, which ironically has an upbeat vibe throughout while remaining sinister. Its purpose is to show what kind of flamboyant but savage beast Ratigan is at his core.
I agree that it's great, because it juxtaposes the upbeat song with the obviously terrified henchmice, and ends with the brutal murder of one for drunkenly stating the obvious truth. It's so much better in so many ways, 'This is the thanks I get?' doesn't even compare.
I feel the same way about Gaston. It outlines how the villagers are lowkey a little terrified of him and don’t want to disagree with him or let him get upset. But it sounds like some upbeat English pub song
@@jacksont9455I never got the impression they were terrified of Gaston, more strongly admired him. The whole thing outlines his ego but ends by revealing his rather duplicitous nature.
I feel like it would've been received better if it wasn't a pop song. It doesn't sound evil. It sounds like one of those really annoying get-stuck-in-your-head tunes that my mom would send me everyday
Like every disney villain have different music and song are there it okey pop song problem they do not executed that way even story bad that why but the story is good and lyrics is dark or intimating and tone and music match the story then it becomes great disney villain song
This was a really cool breakdown, I’m glad I found it! Being a songwriter definitely makes me interested in seeing breakdowns of different songs, it helps me learn more about something I love learning about
The biggest thing is that all of the best villain songs have a point where you could argue it goes completely off the rails. If that doesn't happen in the song, then a proper score will have a reprise or another song that fulfills this criteria (e.g. "Mother Knows Best" in Tangled getting a reprise later on and "Gaston" in Beauty and the Beast being contrasted by the mayhem of the Mob Song.). This rule is even felt in stage musicals, with one of my favorites being "Where Will You Stand When the Flood Comes?" from Parade or "What Is It About Her?" from The Wild Party (Lippa). "This is The Thanks I Get?" kinda fails in this regard in the most egregious way possible because of that little "Wait, where were we?" which destroys all of the tension that it had built up instead of even resolving it. The yell at the end feels forced too, like it's lapping at dry sands to try to get any of the drama back.
"I let you live here for free and don't even charge you rent"
This is the songwriting we get
if they gonna add that i may as well just decide to drink chai tea in the sahara desert
Chai tea? Chai means tea, so you're just saying tea tea(reference)
@@xAl3xxZand3rxyea lmao spiderman across the spiderverse
@@xAl3xxZand3rxoh boy your mind's gonna be blown when I tell you what "Sahara" means.
Truly one of the lines of all time
You'll often notice in bad children's movies like Wish that the villain actually has a valid point, but because the hero has no adequate rebuttal, the writers make the villain kick a puppy or something so that the audience doesn't have to think about pesky things like nuance.
Oh my god yeah. ‘So King Magnifico, you say you’re protecting the kingdom from evil wishes, but the one you demonstrate happens to be from the MC’s kindly old grandfather? Guess your point is invalid and actually everyone’s wishes are benevolent all the time’
That's how it felt when he suddenly started becoming super aggressive and commanding against his wife. Like they clearly liked each other and supposedly have been together happily since before the city of Rosa was even founded, but suddenly he's eeEeEviLl now and so he has to forget all of that and threaten her with violence. And now she's also okay with throwing all of that history away and working with a bunch of teenagers because he's evil suddenly. And her anguish over that is encapsulated in like two lines of the protagonist 'working together' song where she's like "guess he never actually loved me, oh well. I will certainly never regret trapping him for eternity"
And it felt like such a copout that they were like "no this magic permanently corrupts peoples souls the instant they first start using it, he can't be talked to at all anymore" lol
I specifically remember one line from the movie: "This reads like a recipie book for the foul and the savage", because it stuck out to me so much as WTF IS THIS DIALOGUE
@@safabekr Dude, this. The villain in Wish feels like a reasonable guy who is being uncharacteristically unreasonable about one thing so now he's an evil tyrant who must be stopped.
I love how counterproductive this is for people who don’t really care if someone does stuff to cute things.
They easily could of shown a time when a wish went bad. Now he has ptsd because this isn't Rose city its actually Rose city 2.
The dodododododooos in the chorus legit make it sound like this song is from a Target commercial.
fr
I HAD BABY SHARK PTSD FROM IT-
those doodoodoos make me irrationally angry for that exact reason. especially since you CAN have an upbeat villain song. think "be prepared" or, one of my personal favorites, "in the dark of the night" from anastasia. but the thing is, those songs, despite being upbeat, still have something menacing to them. without that, it just isnt a villain song.
i didnt think the soundtrack from wish was _awful,_ (as in the beat of the songs themselves were pretty good, the lyrics were mainly the problem) but having a pop writer make the _villain_ song was a mistake. if the villain doesnt sound like a dramatic ass theater kid when they sing their song then whats the point.
@@IWADsarecool literally, it has such an upbeat and peppy instrumental when villain songs are usually supposed to be large and menacing, or hide a dark undertone like mother gothel's song. Pop was the worst choice for this song imo.
@@Dorkish yeah, it sounds like A HERO'S SONG MORE THAN ANYTHING.
It's not just the song. The entire movie failed to make Magnifico a villain like you said, which is so weird because he could have easily been a great one. Just make him sick and tired of granting selfish wishes to the point he secretly develop a deep sense of hatred and distrust in his people, eventually leading to him punishing everyone regardless of how good their wishes are because he sees everyone as evil
Based on how the writers described him you would assume he was gonna be some mad Tyrant that spits on homeless people & steals candy from babies. Instead, what we got was a mildly narcissistic but ultimately altruistic Lord who provides for his people and is generally a good guy. Him hunting after the star for safety reasons was the final nail in the coffin. He's not evil, just rationally paranoid.
@@electricfeverx976hes a slay and asha a girlfail flop
Disney Zamasu would go craaaazy
@@electricfeverx976 Dude I thought he was gonna be a tyrant too before the movie was released lol
I actually really like your description of Magnifico as a villain. That version might have been able to stand beside the 90's villains. Too bad that's not what we got.
This song feels more like Kuzco's opening song than a villain song. Like Magnifico is a protagonist with a lot to learn.
That’s true
I'm surprised more people havent pointed out Moana. This song feels exactly like the mirror reflection of You're Welcome. Same vibe of an arrogant hero wanting appreciation for what they provided.
Edit: man I came back because this made me think how even with its flaws, Moana is such a better movie than this. The dad's character arc is also kinda similar to magnifico in a way.
"No one goes in the water because of the traumatic death that happened to me and my childhood best friend" sounds a lot like "no one else can use magic because they might destroy everything I built and love all over again"
But Moana gets to reconcile with her dad and he recognizes where he went wrong, while Magnifico gets the shaft (literally and metaphorically, he gets locked in a staff for all eternity by his wife)
Exactly when I first heard this song, I instantly thought of You're Welcome, but that song is 100x better than this
@@snakewithapen5489
Ohhhh, so true!
@@snakewithapen5489 I can see it
Also, a villain song should be thematically appropriate for the location or time. "Charging rent" is too modern of a term for a medieval fantasy setting.
Thank you. Let’s not forget “genetics” and “outer space.” Anachronisms yank viewers straight out of the story. They’re jarring and unimaginative. Yeah, characters like the Genie are going to make crazy references, but for many reasons that’s a special case. “Lion King” manages not to overtly reference the kind of material, human culture that makes no sense for a bunch of wild animals. Done right, using characters’ language and thought to evoke time and place is a delight and in the right hands it can be masterful in execution.
Or you can spend millions making and marketing whatever “Wish” was.
@@edoboleyn it'd be funny to go to someone that long ago and have them be like "theres an *OUTER* space???"
Also shortened words like 'prob' is too unrealistic and modern for this kind of Disney movie setting
If anachronisms are the issue then there's also one character being allergic to gluten, lyrics like "Boom! Did we just blow your mind?" and "When it comes to the universe we're all shareholders", and probably the use of the term "butt"...
@@edoboleynhumans have had some understanding of the of the cosmos for a long time, the first relatively accurate measurements of the moons distance from earth and it's size occured in the 100s BC so it's not inconceivable that a well educated person would understand some form of the concept of "outer space" . Still a bad song though.
This is an addition to Hellfire because I love that song and there is a detail I absolutely adore.
In Hellfire Frollo is begging Maria and God to free him of the spell Esmerelda cast upon him. At this a guard enters the room, his silhouette is clad in moonlight and we can't see his face and he tells Frollo that Esmerelda escaped.
At that point God gave Frollo his wish, we can interpret the guard as an angel sent down to tell Frollo that he is free, that if he chooses he can redeem himself. He was given the hand of salvation BUT HE REFUSES!
He wishes and begs for this but when he sees the opportunity to be redeemed his true colors show the most and he goes in pursuit of her once more.
Why doesn't this comment has like a hundred likes??? This is brilliant!
I love "Hellfire" to pieces and thought I had analysed any little tidbit of it, yet I never noticed that.
Thank you!!!
You absolutely BLEW my mind! 😲 This needs to be pinned
An additional point is that Frollo specifically asks for Esmeralda to either be destroyed or to be his (neither of which are righteous desires), and God seemingly gives him a benevolent, righteous third option: since the guards have lost her, she is gone. If Frollo had wanted to be righteous, he could’ve stopped pursuing her, thus allowing her to live (mercy) while also resisting his lustful temptations. But by turning away from the (Angel) guard and telling him to get out, he is rejecting his last chance at salvation. Such good subtle storytelling, I miss when Disney still did this…
It’s literally so genius it makes me FERAL
"Hellfire" isn't my favorite villain song, but when you combine it with the song that immediately precedes it, "Heaven's Light", that makes for one of my favorite _scenes_ in any Disney movie. It's not just Frollo's insane lust for Esmeralda, which he's unable to reconcile with either his religious impulses or his hatred of gypsies as a group, that makes that five minutes of musical theater brilliant; it's the _contrast_ between that feeling and Quasimodo's ineffable happiness at being lightly kissed by her that makes it so striking.
Both of these men interpret her presence as a kind of light, but in totally opposite ways. To Quasimodo, who's been hated and despised his whole life (even by the man who raised him), Esmeralda's kindness is a sign of God's love and it uplifts him. To Frollo, who has led a life of power and privilege, her beauty represents the first thing he has wanted and cannot have, and this enrages him. Quasimodo and Frollo are so different that they interpret the same person in utterly conflicting ways, and the central irony of this is that Frollo raised Quasimodo and thought that he had successfully imposed his values on his "son".
There's a reason that these two songs are lumped together as one track on the movie soundtrack. Alan Menken wrote these songs to be compared with each other, and they demonstrate a brilliant insight into both the appeal and the moral pitfalls of the Catholic faith. The entire soundtrack is brilliant, but "Heaven's Light/Hellfire" is its emotional peak.
P.S. I'm sure you and lots of other people have noticed this, but the musical sting that introduces "Heaven's Light" has the same basic melody as the chorus of "Hellfire", except it's in a major key.
Beautiful analysis. 🥹 Now I want to rewatch that movie.
I played viola in my orchestra's stage production of Hunchback last September. I am absolutely in love with the Hunchback soundtrack and that moment is so intense.
Agree on all of this, although the praise for the lyrics should go to Stephen Schwartz, not Menken. He was the lyricist in the writing partnership for Hunchback, Menken was the composer.
@@emalaw1329 Yes, I understand that. I was mostly talking about the music or I would have brought Schwartz up. He's a brilliant lyricist who's particularly good at inventing original rhymes and making lyrics scan like a real conversation (kind of like Stephen Sondheim, actually). I particularly like his work in Pippin and The Magic Show as well as this movie.
the thing i loved about earlier disney movies is that they use music to convey intensity... some of my favorite movies of the older disney era shows that intensity... like, from the beginning of hunchback to the end, you can feel the intense emotions of every single character you see on screen because of the scores... god, i miss old disney...
The one compliment I’ll give this song is that “This Is the Thanks I Get” is a great title for a hypothetical really great villain song.
"This is the Thanks I Get" feels like it should be villain song title for the Evil Step-Mother from Cinderella. I'm glad she never sings, it makes her colder that way, but oh BOY! You know it's be slow, building, malicious, and _*cold as ICE.* Oozing with hypocrisy and bitterness.
@EthalaRide the title makes me think of the oncler for some reason
@@alchemistofsteel8099Onceler to Lorax: ”I’ve made wonderful thneeds that’s positively impacted society, and all you care about is a dumb little tree, and you’re mad at me? This is the thanks I get?” Idk I just got the idea in my head
i wish there was three songs in a row in the Lorax
It starts with "How bad could i possibly be" than it transitions to "biggering" and ends with "This is the Thanks I Get"" @parkfever
The core concept is interesting, a villain who has done the bare minimum to help others losing their minds over the perceived ingratitude of those they've helped.
The thing is, you can make a pop song evil, they just did it badly
Literally what Trolls 3 did with their villains. That was a good villain song.
Lydia the Bard actually does a fantastic job in hindsight of transforming the Main Character’s songs that are meant to be more poppy and keeping these same feelings in the Princess Villain AUs she does. She knows when to lower the key to fit the vibe and can include the leitmotifs of the original songs intended for heroes. It’s an example of how you can use those original popy inspirations while creating a threatening tone.
This is gonna sound odd by S&M by Rihanna always gave me boss music vibes.
@@thelittleredhairedgirlfrom6527I can’t believe I’m saying this honestly, but I agree with you 100%. If they switch up the lyrics to make it more evil, I feel like S&M would make a super intense pop inspired villain song and would have much more of an impact then whatever tf “This is the thanks I get” was. A regular Rihanna pop hit makes the actual Disney villain song sound like a soft love song.
@@famof4392 yeah exactly
"How Bad Can I Be?" from The Lorax walked, so "This is the Thanks I Get?" could stumble and fall.
All jokes aside though, in an age that's vacant of Sideways, I'm really happy that you're filling that void. Really hope you get exposure in the future.
I'd wonder if This is the Thanks I Get would also have a much better draft version pop up eventually but Wish songs feel like first drafts with all the clunkiness in their lines.
Bro I miss sideways…
What happened to him? Bro hasn't uploaded in ages
I cackled
@monstrous_maws It's not terrible but it's also a very safe, paint-by-numbers villain song. Compare it to Biggering, which was the original villain song for that movie
Weird fact: The creators of Frozen consider Love Is An Open Door to be a villain song, because Hans sings a lot of the lyrics, and because of the implication that he views the titular metaphor as "Marriage will get me into a kingdom of my own".
What grinds my gears the most is he isn't even a villain, they forced someone who made a utopia to become evil because someone threw a tantrum about who gets the right to grant wishes... This movie could have had great themes about how you must carry out your own dreams but there literally was no problems until someone forced problems to exist.
Edit: that's a lot of likes 😳
Well because a lot of people have and will see this, stay civil and keep an open mind, this applies to everything :)
Like that was the whole point of Bruce Almighty! Sure, one guy shouldn’t have all that power, but being a yes man to a large population will always go wrong
@@thetiktokpenguin4343 I know that the story obviously wanted him to be a villain but it's cool to think about how the story is about a bunch of spoiled people living free... Unfortunately that's not the case 🥲
Magnifico is a benevolent dictator at worst imho, he has strict rules but they're there for a reason. Along comes Asha who disrupts this because her grandfather's vague af wish hasn't been granted.
She asked if he could just give the wish back if he was never going to grant it and he said no. He wasn't just "not granting wishes" he was forbidding people from pursuing wishes that could threaten his rule. It's very explicit, did you watch the film?
@SamFerree Its still a vague af wish though, "inspire people" inspire them to do what? Fallow their dreams, ok, it's innocent enough, but what if someone's dream is to overthrow the kingdom in a violent fashion them use Magnifico's magic to them do harm to others?
Or inspire them to pursue the person they love by murdering their spouse?
I'm using extremes here as an example, but you get the idea. "Inspire people" is vague and could invike the wrong feeling in people, it could inspire hate, fear, anger, lust, happiness, etc.
I reading an interview with Alan Menken (the guy who wrote the 90's songs). It was when he was brought back for Tangled. Someone asked if he was glad to be back at Disney, and he said something like: _I appreciate that they understand that it takes a special skill to write these songs. They could easily go out and hire any pop artist, but they know that it wouldn't be the same._ Clearly, he couldn't have been more right.
God he would be so disappointed at this movie's "songs".
@@jamesnova745 He's always very positive about everything so we'll never really know how he feels. He gave an interview about the new little mermaid and how great it was working on the new songs. Like... really? You had fun writing Scuttlebutt?
@@EverettCDavis he’s going to say whatever he has to say to keep Disney hiring him and bringing him back for PR events.
@@Attmay That's not the vibe I get at all. He's mentioned that it's time for a generation of songwriters at Disney, and how The Little Mermaid wouldn't have been as successful if they'd hired well established songwriters. New talent is what keeps things fresh. He seems like a very positive person who's really happy with his career. He's 72 and rich so it's not like he's dying for more and more work.
That is the biggest PowerMove of an answer I ever heard
"Are you glad to be working for Disney again?"
"They certainly should be glad I'm back. I for one am glad they remembered who they belong to."
I'll be honest, when I first heard this song, I absolutely heard 'Footloose'. Specifically the lines, "This is the thanks I get" matching up to "Kick off the Sunday shoes". Maybe it's just me, but I can't unhear it, and it makes it sound even more like a fun, upbeat, pop-esk song, not a villain song.
I just took 1d4 Sanity damage, thanks for that
Bruh I HEAR IT AAAAAA
I THOUGHT I WAS CRAZY OK GOOD WE ALL HEAR IT😅😅
@@Celinemoonstone Honestly I’m just glad I’m not all alone over here 😂
Thought I was going crazy lol.
@@ashnights2212 I was afraid to say anything bc being wrong on the internet is scary 😭🥲
5:12 hot take. A song can be a pop song and a villain song if done correctly. For instance, the How Bad Can I Be song from the Lorax is a catchy pop song but also a villain song that does well with its gleeful tone because it's whole point is to be blissfully ignorant/careless which is why the cheerful instrumentals and tone fits so well with it (even though personally I think they should have gone with the more ominous "Biggering" song that they ultimately axed in the end.)
I feel like the reason it didn't work for Magnifico is due to how different of a villain he is to Onceler, where Magnifico is presumably a pride-filled tragic villain who feels as if his efforts have been ignored by people like Asha. Given this sort of theme and the title, the happy-sounding instrumentation just sounds... weird?
Honestly I wish we got both how bad can I be and Biggering, since I think both would fit pretty well and are pretty distinct.
@@cosmicandy4620 I think if the move was a little bit longer, or the pacing would be different (like cutting the town segments and other stuff) it would have worked. "How bad can I be" then would be a blissful/denial song that would start Onceler's decrease into a corporative villain with "Biggering" being him fully embracing it
@@whotao3047absolutely agree
yeaahnmnnn idk if i'd gall that one a villain song per se... since the dude isn't a villain. He's and anti-hero
I think the most egregious thing is that it’s so obviously made to be marketable. Unassuming, safe and bland as well as the perfect length to be played on the radio. It’s the audio version of the ‘cute’ sidekick, it only exists to sell merch, you could safely take them out of the movie and absolutely nothing would change.
Yeah but even at that it just failed. Let it Go did that too but it was a song that actually expressed what it wanted to express but this one just doesn't
I haven’t seen anybody say they like this song, so I guess it’s a case of them trying to please everyone only to please no one.
@@EskChan19 Every song in *Frozen* was better than this.
this was my complaint of Frozen 2, it felt very radio oriented and marketable. But at least it's songs had substance in the movie. This is just the culmination of the path Disney has been going down for a while...
@@EskChan19Also Mulan's Reflection, Aladdin's A Whole New World, Pocahontas's Colors of the Wind. All pop songs that did a fantastic job, and both were good in the movie, and played extensively on the radio.
Hellfires imagery of Frollo trying to defend himself to a imaginary faceless audience is an indication of his internal guilt and insecurity. No one accused him of anything, yet he still feels the need to justify the beliefs that hes consistently reaffirming throughout the movie. Despite his outward confidence, He knows what he is doing is wrong but as usual the desires of the flesh take him over and the audience (his conscience) disappears.
Dr facillier dances like a marionette to a counsel of spirits looking down on the humans while chanting a rhythmic march, foreshadowing the fact that he’s not the one in control.
Mother gothel sings in a patient, condescending tone, negging her into feeling too naive and weak to leave while guilting her into believing she is responsible for mothers loneliness. She also exploits rapunzels many fears, trauma bonding her back to codependency.
An interesting detail of gothel's mother knows best, is the fact it has some kind of reprise later in the movie, where she gets more aggressive and manipulative after Rapunzel starts to stand by herself, which could be an interesting detail to this Gillian song too
For the infamous line:
“I let you live here for free, I don’t even charge you rent.” could be fixed if it was something like this:
“I let you live here for free, I would _never_ charge you rent!”
That’s less of him saying the same thing twice and more of confirming what he just said further.
And for the chorus (second one specifically) it could be something like this:
“This is the thanks I get?”
“Just something that I can’t expect!”
“It’s this that I won’t forget!”
“Why is this the thanks I get!?”
You know Disney really screwed up when a random dude on the internet can fix the lyrics and make them sound *so* much better.
Like many other people, I feel like this movie should have stuck to the original concepts. If they had stuck to the queen also being evil, a villain song that’s a duet between the wicked king and queen about their plans and how evil (and in love) they are would have been amazing.
same here.
WHAT, WE COULD HAVE HAD THAT. 😢
@@tsubaki7370 And star being "starboy" and having a romance with Asha
The voice actor who played Magnifico in Spanish tried to sound like an actual villain, unfortunately the song still not hits evil-ly
Ooo I'll check that out!! TY!!
Yzma song in kingdom of sun is legendary snuff out the light
Maginfico was more like a anti villian or anti hero to me inbetween not good not exactly fully evil inbetween
The book and green reminded of malificent green and rasputin green through and hocus pocus winnies book
@@kriegermaria9923tbh that's one of the many ways this movie is poorly written, it's clear that they TRIED to make an irredimible villain like the classic ones, but due to the obvious incomplete nature of the film where they left a lot of ideas half-cooked and the poor world-building with the magic it basically left a villain that you can see what they were trying to make with him, but didn't because they didn't made up their minds about what they were doing with those ideas.
This movie was the definition of a "hello fellow kids" situation. This song exemplifies that to a degree I hadn't even noticed before.
Most of what Disney has done since they bought out ABC has had that faint whiff to it.
It’s both that and nostalgia pandering.
I like how throughout the first half of the movie magnifico is justified, not granting everyone’s wish because of the chaos it could cause and being pissed off when nobody cares that there’s a traitor among them and instead being more concerned about a wish ceremony.
*But the movie just said “f*ck you.” And made him evil*
Also, they proved his suspicions correct. Asha's grandpa wanted to inspire ppl with his music. How did they "defeat" Magnifico? Singing.
I watched the movie in my native language (Danish) and my only complain was that it was quite pop-y and not what i expected out of a villain song. I went and found the song in danish and pretty much all the horrible lyrics have been changed to propper rhymes, smarter phrases, allegories and imagery.
And example would be he sings *translated* "i let you live here for free, (if you) say please and thank you, then thats good/all i need/enough'.
the line "genes from outer space" only works to solidify my headcanon that magnifico was a fallen star that was captured by the queen, would've been so much better than anything we got
Woah! Honestly, that's such a juicy take! One question, though: how do you balance out the story of him honing his magic for years?
I also think he could have been......racist 👹👹👹👹 ok here me out rn
I haven't watched the movie, but he could have gone full dictator, like he doesn't even grant wishes he just changes things about people's lives to make them satisfied, and to never question his power. Here's where the RASCISM kicks in 👹👹👹👹👹 like perhaps he keeps the kingdom walled off and full of propaganda of how he is superior and they should all listen to him because of it. Mabye changing the "genes from outer space" line to "genes from a superior race" would be smth idk. And so it's mostly about Asha realizing how totalitarian the kingdom is. Or something, idk.
Duuude! That sounds like an awesome idea!!
Remember how the queen was also a Villain? What if the reason that king magnifico seems to be going into both the "understandable"/tragic villain and the batshit insane is because... Well, that was their original dynamic and they combined their scenes into this version magnifico.
I thought the outer space line was a Star Trek reference just because Chris Pine played Kirk.
"It sounds like a Glee cover (derogatory)" this line is amazing
Can you explain it? I don't get it. I've not watched glee but I assume it has something to do with it?
I was wondering what was derogatory about the statement, derogatory means a negative, right? So is she saying that's a bad thing?
@@bradleybrown8428it just means “generic pop with no soul or personality behind it”. And this song kind of gives off this vibe: oddly joyful and celebratory for no reason... Glee is not that bad, it’s just that the covers have a very particular and recognizable sound that is most of the time pretty boring and poor compared to the originals
@@alexandrabalandina9359 oh ok.
The one thing I love about villain songs is that they’re aware that they’re evil or are totally focused on what they want personally regardless of whether it’s right or wrong and the collateral damage it will cause to everyone else. They make it clear it’s all about them and they even enjoy who they are, where instead the villain in Wish just denies everything.
He’s just not that interesting.
The sad thing is that he actually IS the most interesting character in this movie - because he has a hint of background story and a concrete “want” (keep Rosas safe at all costs).
But compared to other villains? Yeah no. Doesn’t stand a chance.
Well you don't have to be over-obviously or right-on-the-nose with your villainy to be good. But it's just that Wish is a bad movie, so any variation is probably gonna suck lol
@@chronorust3359 Agreed, has OP ever watched The Hunchback of Notre Dame? Frollo is literally what they consider "not interesting"
TBF, Hellfire from Hunchback of Notre Dame is literally Frollo going "It's everyone else's fault! I'm just a holy man fighting temptation brought on by unholy sinners!" Songs where the villains throw blame to everyone else are fun when done right.
@@TheBonkleFox Agreed, though some of the lyrics do seem to acknowledge that Frollo recognizes on some level that what he's doing is wrong, but he keeps trying to justify himself. Which in a good number of ways only heightens his evil from a Christian perspective because acknowledging sin is necessary to confess and thus begin to redeem oneself for their transgressions.
8:37 Oh wow, Pine does not have the voice to make a villain scream intimidating. I feel like my nephew just stubbed his toe, that voice crack 😂
Chris Pine as a Disney Villain sounds like a match made in heaven, but with Wish, he got a script that couldn't decide between sympathetic tragedy and scenery chewing pure evil
Nah, Chris Pine was always a match made in Hell as a Disney villain. The guy has zero intimidation factor. Despite being roughly the same age as Magnifico in appearance, he still sounds like a mid-twentysomething, which drastically cuts into his capacity to inspire fear in an audience. There's a reason why villains have historically been played by baritones and basses in musicals and operas (Scar and Claude Frollo are both baritones): the voices are "darker" in color, more gravelly in texture, and more booming in production than tenors, the best of which are light, ringing, and metallic (the go-to comparisons are gold, silver, or steel). Worse still, Pine's tenor isn't even a good one; it's ordinary and bland, more fitting for a comprimario (secondary casting, basically) than a main lead, and especially not a main _villain_ lead.
Chris Pine delivered an enjoyable performance but I honestly feel an actor with a more rumbling voice (like Patrick Page or Brian Stokes Mitchell) would fit the character better
Chris Pine and villain doesn’t match at all
It’s kind of like setting up Rameses from Prince of Egypt, but giving him the personality of Gaston from Beauty and the Beast or Jack Horner from Puss in Boots 2. I mean, come on it just doesn’t match.
I don't get where people got the idea of Pine being any good, he isnt even a good voice actor lol
It's not even like you can't make a poppy sounding villain song still work.
See "You'll Be Back" from _Hamilton_ which sounds like a Beatles song. The lyrical dissonance works to highlight how psychopathic and insane King George is.
I feel like Ernesto's version of Remember Me kinda count too, cuz it's the context that makes it a villain song. It's where you find out that 1) it was stolen from Hector, who Ernesto killed, 2) It was supposed to be a special song to Hector's daughter that no matter the distance, he'll always love his daughter and 3) The implication that Ernesto either didnt care about or didnt care to know the context of the song and just used it for another poppy love song/ego boost
@@ifeeldead463 Ernesto's version of "Remember Me" is a great villain song that only becomes such when the twist is revealed.
It shows how truly self-absorbed and evil Ernesto is that he twisted the words of a melancholic song about a troubled man singing to his daughter to remember his memory into a bombastic ego-stroking boast.
The real King George III was a mentally broken man deeply affected by the lost of his two infant songs and adult daughter. I’m surprised Miranda didn’t go for more of a ballad for him.
Tbf that's a musical song written by a musical composer as well.
Holy shit Pawn Hearts mentioned🗣🗣still waiting for my saviour🗣
The overwhelming pop-ness of all the songs in Wish make me yearn for the time when Disney did Broadway-inspired songs. Especially for a movie that branded itself as the “100th anniversary tribute” to the history of Disney movies and not a scrap of Broadway style is in the songs. Makes me imagine a Wish that’s true to its promise of an actual tribute to both classic and modern Disney
I totally disagree with everyone who thinks that a bouncy pop song can't also make for a thrilling villain scene. Shiny is RIGHT THERE, guys. And it was even more terrifying because of his JOY at causing them suffering and turmoil, and his self involvement. The disconnect WORKED. And I for one would love to see more of it.
This is the Thanks I Get was an absolute trashfire that wasted a good title tho, we can all agree there.
Don't forget "How bad can I be?", too
a very catchy pop song that also works as a villain song because the whole point is that the onceler being blissfully ignorant to the damage he's causing
My favorite villain song is Be Prepared. It literally used to scare my brother when we were kids, so he’d ask us to skip it when we listened to the soundtrack. THATS what villain songs should do.
Scar actually made me cry when I was like 4, I would hide in the other room whenever be prepared came on lmao
Poor Unfortunate Souls scared me a lot when I was 8, too, but I kinda enjoyed that feeling. It felt powerful.
When my 3 yo niece watched The Lion King and saw Scar for the first time, she told my sister "that lion is really ugly".
Villains back then had such a prescence that even a toddler could tell they were evil just by their first appearance and mannerisms.
Magnifico with his sympathetic backstory and all white attire is not going to intimidate anyone.
Mine is "savages" from pocahontas. Pretty realistic how a leader will instigate hatred in his people to get what he wants.
Oh, and I loved this song as a kid so much that I sang it everywhere and more, than other Lion King's songs😂 But Zira's Lullaby scared and amazed me, I loved Scar, but I was absolutely terrified of Zira...
There was an unused song for Tangled that did what this song was trying to do, but with better execution. It's called "After All That I've Done For You" if I remember correctly. It would have likely taken the role Mother Knows Best did.
If you take a listen, you'd likely see what I mean. Both songs try to go for a manipulative, "I do all of this for you, and you act like this? You're ungrateful." tone.
After All That I've done for you was written to be a villain song. It feels threatening. Even in the demo recording (which is on UA-cam somewhere) has excellent voice acting. The song's examples of "Benefits" for the victim (Rapunzel, in this case) work well, as Mother Gothel lists how she feeds Rapunzel and shows her love, and tells her wanting to leave is ungrateful.
This song feels like it's trying to do that, but that's a hard feeling to get in a pop song. Plus, the reasons end up being redundant. Those redundancies could have been replaced with other ways Magnifico benefits his kingdom given the limited words in a song.
Also, the whole "not granting wishes that are dangerous" thing fails as a motive. That sounds more like common sense than evil. Maybe he could have used it as an excuse instead, and the truth could have been that more privileged people get their wishes granted, and the less privileged get put to the side? Idk, all of this seems very disappointing for a 100 year anniversary film. How did Disney fail a *villain song?*
Great find! I listened to it and it's an interesting song. I can see why they didn't use it in the final version, but it definitely has a similar vibe to what they clearly wanted for the Wish villain song.
Magnifico fails too. They say he is evil bla bla bla bla yet he is a good king, makes the good wishes come true instead of the evil wishes and boom the movie makes him the villain just because the kingdom waits for their wishes instead of working hard or enjoying what they have 😒
Like, it was really easy for magnifico's excuse to not grant "dangerous" wishes would be that those kinds of wishes grant alot of magical power. Hell! He could Even lie about the cursed book and it's revealed that it doesnt make You evil, because he's been using it for ages and he was just this much of an asshole all along.
they even fit together too ughhh!!
"after all that i've done for you, this is the thanks i get?"
In my opinion, Magnifico's mistake was to get easily caught up in anger and resentment, on the one hand he has reason to vent because his subjects seem like capricious children who do not see their wishes fulfilled. Because, as Magnifico himself says, when a desire threatens Rosas he does not fulfill it, and on the one hand he is also right to do so. But on the other hand, his mania for control over others, his selfishness and thirst for power took over and he allowed himself to be corrupted by dark magic in order to maintain power, to the point of killing both Star and Asha leading to a terrible fate. However, in my opinion, the character of Magnifico can be well exploited because I see him as more than a simple villain, because if they make a sequel I would like him to be represented as a tragic hero who he had to do evil deeds to survive, and I would like to know more about his past . And that with Magnifico's passing, Queen Amaya sheds the mask for what she is, that is, the villain behind everything who secretly wanted to dethrone Magnifico to take power, as she is jealous of his magical gifts who saw Asha as someone to manipulate, to rise to power. And I would also have kept some concept art from the original film such as Star as a shape-shifting being who takes on human form, and becomes Asha's love interest.
“It’s sounds like a Glee
cover(derogatory)” That is my new favorite sentence. How do I give you money for making my walk back home from work less painful by making me burst out laughing?
What absolutely shocks me is that a villain holding people hostages via their wishes could potentially be the greatest Disney antagonist ever. Imagine for instance if we discovered that Magnifico has made his people believe that he can really their every desire, like bringing back their late loved ones, and thus people know he is evil but acquiesce out of hope. How much more powerful would the story be, also as regards to his relationship with Asha?
But they forget their wish so this would actually be a win for the king. Imagine wishing your loved one was back and it destroying your life because it can't happen. The the king takes all of the pain away and you forget about wanting them to rise from the dead or forget your pursuit of time travel or even the pursuit of revenge.
@@Vegan32 then we go back to the main flaw of the movie: the only person we ever see depressed/stupefied because of this is Simon. Every one else just seems to enjoy a normal life. Magnífico could be a powerful metaphor for very mature themes (I was thinking of drugs when I watched the movie), but he completely seems to lack the dehumanizing effect to prove Asha's point
@francescorobustelli4775 exactly. I felt Simon was more of a guy that had 1 thing that he talked about and when he made his wish he was blah because it was all he was. And since he was suppose to be the sleepy dwarf I felt like it also was lost that he was "depressed". This movie could have been amazing if they would have just done some sort of focus group
2:07 “THIS GOES CRAZY ON MUTE”
Damn, that’s a fifth degree burn if ever I’ve seen one.
I’ve seen that comment section, they’re saying things like “WE’RE GETTING OUT OF THE GOOD MOVIE ZONE WITH THIS ONE 🔥🔥🔥” and “WE’RE GOIN OUT OF THE THEATERS WITH THIS ONE 🔥🔥”
👏👏👏DIAMOND IN THE ROUGH 👏👏👏IT BETTER STAY THERE 🔥🔥🔥
@@amyvasquez4268this phrase is so overused. It's like "a message to future generations" that was around a year ago
@@risurisunaa That was atleast 4 years ago and people somehow STILL use it. You know, for the likes and whatnot.
For a Disney movie, it's probably 20th degree
The main problem with this songs is that it sounds like a side character song
And he says “this is the thanks i get” way too many times, it’s annoying, also it doesn’t really sound like a villain song
@@Mysterious-NightSounds like a song from Vivo
you're so right! it sounds like the mistreated best friend is finally standing up for themselves, not an evil tyrant
i wouldn't say main problem, but it is a problem def
You know it’s bad when sharpey’s villain song “fabulous” from high school musical 2 is more effective as a villain song even though it is also a pop song
Sharpays song "Fabulous" was the first ever villainous pop song I heard, and I fucking loved it
To be honest, its hard to call “Fabulous” a villain song when many people consider Sharpay to be the true hero of High School Musical
This is like a dude trying to sound evil but failing horribly.
I wanna share that the Latam Spanish version of the song which is the one i saw in theaters does a better job at salvaging it. The va really goes out of his way to give it a more musical rather than popy performance, the chorus also introduces some variations in the lines and most importantly the meme line about the rent makes sense since in the translation they use the word "free" in the "freedom" sense rather than in the "no charge" sense so the line translates to something like "I let you live in freedom and i don't even charge rent" which again actually makes sense.
They did their best to salvage the song and the dub is great but still the core history is broken as fuck is a shame because the characters desing is nice and having a kind of likable and a new gaston like villian is nice.
@@HIDHIFDB for sure the movie is still pretty bad but I just find it interesting that I got out of the theater thinking that Magnifico's song was one of very few things I thought it was not too bad just to find that the English version is apparently dog shit
Makes sense. Sometimes I prefer the Latine dubs of anime than the American ones. Not only do they tend to be more accurate, especially for the time, their covers of the Japanese songs are bangers. I still listen to the Mirmo Zibang opening cover to this day.
latine?
I love it when foreign language dubs do better than the og English. I mean in this case I don't because it means the English version was lousy, but it's good to know other languages actually try. As a Bulgarian, it feels so good when a show, especially a song is translated and dubbed well. So far, "Goodbye" from TAWOG is imo the best translated song in a cartoon series. Generally, the songs from the big Disney movies get translated well, from Let it Go to Prince Ali.
The thing is, you CAN make a disassociated hero turned into a jaded villain work, but it requires the new hero to be wrong at some point and both of them meet midway.
You CAN make a villain have a pop song, you just gotta be far riskier and go all in.
Hell you can even make 'this is the thanks I get' sounds really cool, because it is ABSOLUTELY loaded with the gaslighting vocabulary that a narcissistic parent would use.
Disney had no excuse for making such a bland movie, these were all ingredients that were EASILY usable into something VERY interesting, fun, quirky, and GOOD.
They just... went into a boring formula.
In movie making, Formulas are a great way to give a story a skeleton... but if you stick way too hard to it then all you got is a skeleton with some sharpie drawings on it.
Magnifico's real issue is lack of presentation. He's narcissistic but he also has a weirdly sympathetic side and had been basically reasonable til the movie's inciting incident. Hell he didn't even have an evil side, narcism barely counts, til he opened that book. It's like they still wanted to do a "twist villain" but failed to execute it on even a fundamental level.
That's a great analogy. I love it
so tru equius zahhak
hi equius
I couldn’t understand him as a villain because they went all in on his initial motive to build a new world with his wife after his old one was destroyed and he just wants to protect everyone since he lost his precious family. It doesn’t make sense that he would later do something that would destroy the world he worked so hard to create and also just no longer seem to have love nor basic empathy for his queen who was with him through hell. Even if they wanted to write him doing a 180 it just felt like one minute he’s good but then the minute afterwards he’s a villain just because he has to be for the plot.
It failed because he wasn't a real villain, only portrayed as one. Hard to make a villain song when your not a villain
The line "I got these genes from outer space" hit me like a flying fish to the face ;D
This comment is a better rhyme than any lyric in the song
One thing I want to point out that’s been really bugging me about this song:
Magnifico says in the song that he granted 14 wishes last year…but he grants a wish a month.
The film straight-up retconned itself
He's bragging because he granted two more wishes than he normally would.
He added two more months to the calendar, humans definitely wrote this movie there were no AIs behind it please give us money we bombed so hard that the entirety of Australia has been reduced to a crater frowny face :(
He's literally being lenient about his own rules, he granted 2 extra wishes last year, outside of a wishing ceremony that occurs each month. And song plays him like he's being a frugal cheapskate.
Granting 117% of the promised wishes IS a high percent!
@@thebiolibrary5572 Damn we the Gundam timeline now?
Sofia the First, a Disney Junior show, did better at not just writing villain songs, but villains in general
*I am so glad to see Sofia the First Appreciation! Yes, the villain’s songs in Sofia the First are great and they fit each of the major (more overarching) villains and the minor villains' personalities and motivations.*
•Some of the villain songs I can remember at the time of my head are Cedric the Sorcerer songs (well I guess he is more of an Anti-Hero throughout Sofia the First), His songs:Cedric the Great & My Evil Dreams, I am sure I am missing more.
•Also, I remember the villain Princess Ivy’s A Kingdom of My Own Song and Amber (who Sofia’s Stepsister, even though she is technically not a villain, she has a great villain-type of song-Bigger is Better)
I love Sofia, probably one of the best non-movie princess Disney ever made
I forgot who even is the main villain 💀
@@kujojotarostandoceanman2641Wasn’t it the goofy wizard dude?
@@zillowzest5199”sir cee-dric”
Honestly, I think AI literally would write a better story than this
(and it does,sometimes)
“This is the thanks I get” is such a great title and it would be so easy to make a compelling villain and villain song out of Magnifico. Imagine if Magnifico’s whole deal was that he was a good king, but tending to the constant demands of his unthankful people exhausted and drained him, until he finally snapped and went full villain. Imagine if this was about Magnifico’s pent up fury after years of being dismissed by the people he granted wishes to over. Imagine if this movie was about learning to appreciate the people around you, to understand them, to be thankful for what you have, and to strive for more on your own. This movie could’ve been so good, but unfortunately they got ai to write the scripts and pop writers to write musical theatre
hell could have been even more, him over worked trying to do his best to give people what they wants but they keep demanding more and more and more, but he just can't keep up then when a girl just ask him something he just isn't able to answer, and she loses her shit on him. he finally snaps and goes, "Fine you ungrateful brat, you think im mean for not doing this I'll show you mean." as he just brings hell down on the people, and the girl has to go on a journey to learn to apprecaite what she has and calm the angered king.
I think “Everyone Loves Gaston” is more of LeFou’s and the village’s song for him to establish that the village admires him greatly and will blindly follow through anything he does and say
Which is why when we do get to “Kill the Beast” we already know Gaston has that much influence over the people to create the mob
Agreed. I think people assume 'Gaston' is a villain song just because it's sung by the villain but it's more of a character establishing song; villain songs usually delve into the villain's motivation and relationship with the hero, but 'Gaston' mostly establishes that he's comically macho and the town loves him. 'Mob Song' is when they establish motive and intent and threat.
It could also be argued that, while Gaston is not a nice person, the real villain of Beauty and the Beast is the society, which instills expectations and prejudice. Belle herself is considered a weirdo, without a proper place in the town, and only when she's bonding with the Beast does she find somebody of like mind, and it's the town which consigns Maurice to the nuthouse because Gaston (who is traditionally attractive, handsome, and manly) insists Maurice (who is eccentric and an outsider to the town) is crazy. It's the town who are whipped into a frenzy because, as they say, "We don't like what we don't understand / In fact it scares us". Gaston might be the leader of the mob, but it's the whole town that comes together against the Beast.
I think Gaston is sort of a mix of both. Same with Kill the Beast.
I'm an artist and my sister is a writer. After watching Wish, we dissected the visuals and storytelling of Wish to death trying to figure out why it didn't work and feels so soulless, but we don't have much music experience so all we could say is that they were bland and repetitive. Watching this explained so much and unfortunately it echoes a lot of what we found; it's trying to cash in on the beats of what a Disney film is without knowing why those beats work. It wants a traditional Disney villain without having the guts to make a hammy, delightfully evil figure. It wants a classical fairy tale story without having the sincerity to go through with it. It wants pure of heart characters while gutting them with quippy one-liners a marketing expert said children like. It has no identity of its own without even engaging with what the classic Disney identity is.
I just... how could they make a musical without writing actual musical theatre numbers? They must have known that wouldn't work. I'm sure the songwriters are skilled, but clearly this was out of their trained skillset
Take for example the heroines friends. THey are modeled after the 7 dwarves with them each having the same personality traits as their defining characteristics ... but that's it.
Nothing is really done with this and it's done without any real purpose beyond "Hey we put in a reference".
It reaks of lazy coporate execs who just mandated classic disney elements be mixed into the movie without thoughts as to why they were classic.
Personally, I think the director should’ve get the sack. Any faults in a movie is the directors fault, nobody else
@@andmos1001 While the director has a lot of influence, clearly, Disney films are famously bogged down by executive influence. A lot of the film was controlled by studio mandates to make it similar to other Disney films
You’re not wrong lol, I heard they didn’t even get people who have worked in musical theatre number to do this😂
They literally got songwriters who have written songs for *pop* artists.
I hope you sister writes better than you "draw".
You know its weird when you relate to the villain more than the hero...
DIsney is lucky to have fans as intelligent as this. I wish they'd respect them more.
My big issue with the song is the choice of instrumentation, which is always integral in creating an effective villain song. Be Prepared used a bombastic orchestra, truly befitting for a king, Friends on the Other Side uses haunting spiritual voices to portray a twisted voodoo conman, and Hellfire uses a massive choir to make the song feel like a corrupted hymn. This is the Thanks I Get, however, just uses basic pop song instrumentation, making it feel far too generic to stand out.
Where is Irwin Kostal when you really need him?
Dude have you listened to “Open up your eyes” from My little Pony? Or even Ready as I’ll ever be, which functions as both a hero ramp up and a villain song (it’s fantastic). Idk man Disney dropped the god damn ball
@@kiralink4141Finally, someone mentions "Open Up Your Eyes." It's one of my favorite villain songs of all time. It's that good.
@kiralink4141 Open Up Your Eyes is a great example. Fitting music, fitting character and situation
I was very confused when Magnifico began singing his "villain" song because up until that point, I didn't see him as the bad guy. He was an antagonist sure but evil? His people genuinely loved him. Asha sings about how wonderful he is at the start of the movie.
He sings about how he's willing to use others to achieve his goals but there had been no evidence to show that. It felt so disjointed from what I watched. And the song didn't even really explain anything either - just made him sound like a narcissistic prick who's always been that way and people are just cool with it.
it was like he was possessed during that section because narcissists may act like good people, yeah i get that but its always evident in how they treat people. The dude was thoughtful and kind. He didnt even have to grant wishes. Narcissists are selfish and indifferent.
@@sapphirestar3978
My father has npd. I know first hand what narcissistic people are like and yeah nah, Magnifico was not a narcissist. Not in the first half of the movie.
"Hell Is Forever" is the perfect 2020s Disney villain song...and it wasn't even the least bit by Disney
Because of this tu-tu-tu part, I can't shake off the feeling that King Magnifico is our next princes with his own Princess Song.
10:25 - " villains should be as villainous as their heroes are heroic "
A pure example which this movie fails to do
@@Veri_Veriyf all Asta did was bitch about the wish her grandfather didn’t get
@@Veri_Veriyf like I said Disney failed to do what the person said, in both ways
Where is master oogway, this is his new quote
@ETOL17 i *would* correct you but asha is such a terrible characters that she doesn't deserve to be said right
Disney Villain Song: 🎩 ✨️🎆 😈
*Disney Villain Song From Wish:*
I took way too long to get that joke
WAIT THAT'S SO CLEVER
They really set themselves up 😭
wait i don't get it 😅
@@dottysdokis wish is a website similar to Amazon only with very low quality products
Yes! Another thing to add, Queen Amaya and Magnifico were going to be a villain couple. They were going to sing a song together and everything! But instead, people actually see that the villain has a point and they defaulted to making him a "kicked a dog" kind of villain. When fans got access to what the film could have been, let's just say a lot of people were disappointed. As you said Disney was too afraid to take risks and really make the film(and villain) memorable because they needed it to be marketable. Wish just doesn't feel like it was made by humans or with any care like past movies(and villains).
i havent seen this movie, but from what you said about him worrying about an outside threat, i get the impression that a better song for him would be agonizing over whether to use that magic book to protect his people or not, and knowing the consequences if he does, eventually talking himslef into using it and being corrupted by the magic. disney gets a sympathetic villain, a fun song, redeemed bad guy, yadayadayada, happy ending for everyone and money for disney.
Except he isn't given a chance to be redeemed and Is trapped and locked away. 😢
Even in a very flawed movie like Pocahontas, Savages is still a standout. The lyrics are very on the nose, but they're strong and show blind hate and prejudice can bring the worst out of people. The usage of color is stunning, and it drives the story forward too.
It's kind of sad how old Disney at their worst is still better than what most of modern disney puts out.
Say what you will about the story/historical inaccuracies of Pocahontas, but damn did they put in the effort into the music. I could write a whole essay on why Savages is such an incredible song, but you laid it out very concisely. Incredible lyrics paired with phenomenal singing and voice acting(The delivery of "I wonder if they even bleed" still gives me chills) created an horrifyingly realistic song about the blind fear and hatred sowed by fear or the unknown and reaped by willful ignorance.
Ya. This song was pretty dull, lyrics made very little sense, but the worst part was the visuals during the song. It was boring. It wasn't interesting to look at, the choreography was just uninteresting and it had very little energy.
Zira's villian song from the straight to video, "the lion king 2" is so much better than this snoozer.
@@bethanywallace8575 honestly, what made Zira's Lullaby stand out to me is when you think about it in hindsight and context. Like, the image of baby Kovu somehow soundly asleep while his mom is loudly plotting Simba's downfall is hilarious, like guy has grown to be a heavy sleeper or fall asleep to evil theatre productions.
Hey screw you man Pocahontas was fucking good!
@@ifeeldead463 Pfft hahaha omg I can't unsee that now.
Excluding the parts of the song where he sings about being possesed by dark magic, this song feels like a arrogant hero song for filler to show the audience how arrogant the hero is but still show them in a good light because magnifico WAS a good guy, or neautral. Before the getting possesed by magic part. Him turning evil because of a magic book HE let use him makes him seem corrupted or stupid or both.
It's a trope I've seen a couple times and hate: Both sides have a point, so to ensure that you root for the right side, the antagonist grabs the artifact of doom and turns evil. It doesn't really resolve the debate so much as openly replace the "wrong" side with a strawman. Not only is it cheap, but it means that instead of having a villain who's an actual person, the *real* villain is the evil object controlling him (in this case, the book), which isn't at all an interesting villain.
Not his fault than if the book control him like a puppet he shouldnt be fully blamed
I mean they throw him later in dungeon his wife cold cut ties with him im like what like she dont care at all for him he was possesed After all corrupted by that book
He knew what the book would do to him, so that's why he kept it in a vault. By choosing to use it at all, he essentially threw away what little humanity he had left.
Don’t it just sound like Scarlet Witch being possessed by a book XD but make it male and “very evil” XD
Honestly, I feel like we should have gotten a short reprise of this song as Magnifico finally decides to use the book.
To give more context to my point.
You know in movies when the protagonist fails at something and gets frustrated and vents in the form of a song? This is that.
He isn't doing an evil monologue or trying to convince others. He's just a guy who had a bad day and is venting. That's it.
This "villain song" feels like the soundtrack for a getting-ready-in-the-morning montage of a 2000's comedy.
"This is the Thanks I Get" had the potential to be an amazing song. It's a title that sounds bitter, like a character who actually was doing the right thing, but turns down the wrong path because people turn against him for it. But then it...wasn't.
Honestly, the chorus annoys me most of all. Put it in a minor key, take out the "doo doo doo" backing vocals, and have "get" go up instead of down, and it actually could sound somewhat sinister. But as is, it sounds celebratory. He doesn't sound like he's saying "how dare they not be more grateful," he sounds like he's saying "woohoo! I get thanks!"
I bet the artists planned to at least perform it that way, but the execs changed it on purpose, to keep it from sounding too much like a villain song. The same treatment they gave to the rest of the song, forcing it to still sound like a cheerful pop song they think kids will wanna bop along to on the radio.
I think a thing that could have worked is if during the bridge Magnifico sounded angry as fuck. If they really wanted to keep the silly backing vocals, they could've at least tried to make a dissonance between the "happy people" Magnifico helps and Magnifico himself, maybe building on the fact that he thinks they never thank him enough. Instead his voice just... goes with the pop song vibe
the dodododododo made me wanna turn off the entire movie
10:47 Free living and no rent*
5:02 THE CHORUS SOUNDS LIKE BURN THE WHOLE HOUSE DOWN BY AJR LMAO
edit: I MEAN THE INSTRUMENTATION
omg now i cant unhear that NOOO CMON I LOVE AJR WHY
So you're telling me the only two people that wrote this musical theatre song were two pop song writers who haven't worked on these movies before?? That's like if sonic forces only had two level designers, one who only worked on lost world and one with no prior sonic experience. Oh wait.
Actually, it was three level designers, but I guess that's not much better.
Me, who actually enjoyed Lost World: hear hear
I feel bad for saying it because I'm sure Chris Pine is giving it his all, but during the chorus, it seems like he's trying to yell while not being allowed to have any edge to his voice. It makes it sound like a Smash Mouth song. Not exactly intimidating.
Nawww not smash mouth 😭
He probably originally yelled it but was told to dial it back.
imo villian songs work better when its sung lower (even with female villians- look at mother knows best) they have that they had chris sing higher is just setting him up for failure even without the lyrics
@@jamiegreenberg8476 yea i agree
I remember thinking his first time meeting Asha was sweet and he came off genuinely likable. Even felt bad for him when Asha immediately asked for a wish. It would’ve been so interesting to have Asha be his apprentice and genuinely care about him only for his paranoia and fear to be his downfall. I’d be up for a tragic villain
'I'm passionate, I'm not petulant' could technically bear the meaning that Magnifico is upset that his passion(ate...ness) gets confused with rudeness. Like, he wants to emphasize: he's not being rude when doing something straightforward or unconventional, but rather it's because of his passion
I watched this movie with my little cousin, she is literally six, and when the movie ended she looked at me and went “That was bad.”
She usually gets up and dances around during villain songs and I’m not a huge fan of kids but she’s absolutely adorable. This song? I looked down at her every now and then and she just looked confused, sure it’s because she didn’t understand some words like Omnipotent, but it’s also because… it just isn’t a good villain song. She hasn’t heard Hellfire yet, but she’s heard Be Prepared, Kill the Beast, and Mother Knows Best and she loves every one of those.
Ask her seriously about Hunchback of Notre Dame. It's a very, verry dark movie and I know not all kids will take it easily. But it's a great movie with, I think, only one song I don't like in it.
@@BrokensoulRider I remember hearing it as a kid and getting weird, scary vibes from it. I didn't exactly know what it meant, but I knew what catcalling and things like that were.
@@BrokensoulRider Watched it when I was younger and I absolutely loved it. "Hellfire" was the most memorable song for me out of all of them.
@@BrokensoulRider watched when i was younger aswell, probably shouldn't have known about Frollo's whole "lust" thing but i did and that made hellfire so great for me as a kid.
@@BrokensoulRiderI literally saw that film in theaters in that age and it was a core memory for me. It's still one of my favorite Disney films to this day.
I have to be honest, but this song when I listen to it always seems to be something I'd expect to hear from a hero that's become jaded after people take advantage of them one too many times... that's not what I want in my villain song and I can't believe Disney did that!
Thank you for making this video, though, it was a lot of fun to watch.
While I personally have a soft spot for King Magnifico and this song, that sounds like a good idea; I can imagine a few heroes who've had that problem (especially when they turn against them too many times) that would be perfect for that scenario.
As a writer, it's a very good idea in concept, but the execution could be handled much better. A more slower and layered descent into madness would help that, and I think it could have even been conveyed in the song with its cheery beginning progressing into a more intense and demented ending (which seems to be a problem mentioned in the video). It's not even the first to attempt it, though I would love to see more mainstream media tackle it with more skill :D
Technically, Magnifico was a villain who deluded himself into thinking he was a hero, so that's something there.
@@gokuandmario4evermaybe on paper they aimed at him reaching villainy, but on a screen he really is just a mishandled hero.
Villains in Disney take and take, and take some more, without a thought about people around them. Magnifico literally gave people a whole kingdom where they live perfect lives in a fair, transparent exchange for their heart's desire. And he even takes care of their pain of loss after he'd taken a wish.
I had the same feeling with "At All Costs." I heard the song without context and I thought it was a love song (especially the demo version), which I thought was weird since because it was Magnífico and Asha singing. I looked up the scene where this song is sung and I was surprised and confused that they were singing about wishes? Maybe it will make sense when I watch the movie but it's like Disney didn't want a good love song for Star and Asha to go to waste so they used it about wishes instead. All these songs have a different feeling than the context in which they are used
The phrase “this sounds like a Glee cover (derogatory)” has been stuck in my head since I first watched this video
I love listening to people who know about music explain why a song doesn’t sound good. Like I can hear it, but I can’t put it into words why it sounds off to me.
You know the “live here for free don’t charge you rent” would have worked if instead they changed it to “I let you live carefree and I don’t even charge you rent” LIKE DUDE THAT TOOK ME THREE SECONDS TO COME UP WITH AND ITS SUCH A SIMPLE CHANGE WHAT THE HECC
In the Norwegian dub they do something similar to that
@@bluecokedragon how does Disney Norway get it better than the original?!
@@luxsolis95Because we are better 🇳🇴🇳🇴🇳🇴🇳🇴🇳🇴
@@kullingen6909 omg XD I can’t exactly argue with that, especially right now
I think the most frustrating part of the song is the end where it feels like the moment where he goes to the book is going to be an interesting turning point for the book, to allow the villain to drop the mask and be threatening to his true grievances. But NO it’s an immediate set up for a joke about how “lmao awkward” it was that he was so invested in the cured book. And then he just goes back to the other tone from the rest of the song, as if it was such a bad idea for him to start being more vocal in his feelings. It’s a big problem with the number, the villain doesn’t show himself as threatening or in control. He tells us he is.
It’s a villain song that doesn’t build up any seriousness for the villain.
It’s frustrating because the difference major and minor keys could’ve been used to tell a story about his impressions to the people versus how it is in reality.
My ELA (English Language Arts) teacher told my class to "show not tell" all the time and she's right...
Another difference I've noticed is that it's not singing to anyone. Most of the other villain songs could play off that persona because they were directing that persona to the protagonist or to an audience (or, in the case of Hellfire, an imaginary audience). In Wish you just get a complainer song- relating the goals of the antagonist very shallowly, without any pushback, performance, or expectation from the presence of any other characters in the scene.
I like the way you said "it sounds like a glee club cover (derogatory)" and managed to verbalize the parentheses as well
Honestly, Shiny is a villain song in my book due to just how good it is. Even though he's not a major villain, I feel like he's the closest we got.
Fr it slapped
@@kyubeyo fr
Schafrillas Productions is screaming in joy rn
so true
I've been obsessed with the Princess and the Frog movie and Facilier's song, yet only through your video have I learnt that the print on the wall becomes skulls when his shadow touches it.. I'm just BLOWN AWAY, wow, the level of detail here is amazing
"Friends On The Other Side" is what convinced me to watch The Princess and the Frog. Doc Facilier doesn't get quite as much characterization as I'd like throughout the rest of the movie, but what a brilliant entrance.
Main villain song from wish: why do you Disney fans do not see me as the villain?
Me: because you’re not quite evil enough, you’re semi-evil, you’re quasievil, you’re the margarine of evil, you’re the Diet Coke of evil, just one cannery, not even enough!
Even the Home on the Range's villain song "Yodel Adle Eedle Idle Oo", does feel like a villain song. The hammy-ness of the yodeling vocals in contrast to the high acid colors when hypnotizing the cows, it is more of a villain song number compared to This is The Thanks I Get.
i remember that scene as a fever dream
I personally liked it - he's cheerful because in his eyes, he's winning. he's almost got every cow to sell and every farm is owned by him.
The scary part is that every cow is under his control. Imagine not realizing that you're taken away, not able to do anything. It's terrifying; whilst for your kidnapper, they're happy that it works.
That moment when the worst Disney movie gets love for having a better villain song than the movie that was supposed to be the 100th anniversary
I remember that movie, it was a riot.
Love that song
"villains should be as villaious as their heroes are heroic"
Love this line. We go to the movies to escape at the end of the day so with that villains should be evil in a way that kinda helps push that escapism. So long as it's written well, a villain that's evil for the sake of being evil can be a fun way to help lean into the escapism a movie provides
A good example that comes to mind is Jack Horner from the new puss in boots movie. You get a character not afraid to be reprehensible and it's done in a over the top way that helps really propel the movie forward in how entertaining it is
Usually we don’t need to know why a villain is evil… UNLESS it adds something.
“Evil for the sake of evil” still sucks. They have to have at least a simple motive. Most classic Disney villains do bad shit out of Spite, Greed, or Ego. Jack Horner’s motive is to fill the black hole where his soul should be
Couldn’t disagree more. Magnifico was not painted as a black and white villain.
@@cosmicspacething3474evil for the sake of evil Can be a good motive
Pleasure or hatred are usual factors (I hate this thing so I’ll destroy it no matter how many die in the process or I love to cause pain so much I’ll make everyone suffer) can be good motives for the sake of evil
But the problem isn’t evil being the motive, but not having a motive
Is like if you put scar killing he’s brother and taking over without showing how much he resents him or how much pleasure he hopes to gain after taking the throne
Some villains don’t need a motive since some are just wild monsters which destroy because that’s their nature like the red death of HTTYD
But if we put a villain and don’t show WHY he’s doing it (not even show how much he enjoys doing evil) then is a bad motive
@@mega6662 I wouldn’t consider that evil for the sake of evil, I’d call it evil for selfish reasons, which is a different thing entirely.
Does anyone else find it rather telling that Wish came out right around the time that the writer’s strike was ending? Meaning, that the majority of the movie’s production must have took place while all of Disney’s usual writers were still on strike?
For a guy who says he’s passionate, there’s no real passion or evil energy behind the song.
“Be Prepared” and “Hellfire” were loud and powerful, they built up and got more threatening.
“Poor Unfortunate Souls” sounded sharp and cunning, especially in the line “Go ahead. Make your choice.” Ursula is raising her voice and being angry at Ariel for not deciding yet.
“Mother Knows Best” fit the vibe of someone who’s only pretending to care. It sounding kind, but being full of scary things.
“This Is The Thanks I Get?!” has no passion or energy to it. He’s basically just talking to no one. He doesn’t sound angry, it sounds more like slight annoyance at best.
No offense to the actor who did this, it’s not his fault. It’s the writer and producer’s fault for writing this terrible song and having him preform it this way.
why would Disney hires pop lyrics writer for its 100th celebration? Alan Menken's still here! He created Hellfire!
I know what you mean
There is one Sherman brother left, and how many times have they actually hired him to create something since his brother died? A song for *Christopher Robin,* some new *Bedknobs and Broomsticks* songs for the stage version (with new collaborators), and nothing else but a bunch of personal appearances and the occasional Blu-ray interview.
It was cheaper, Marketing decided that since pop music sells better do a pop song, some other third thing, who knows?
They had him working on TLM remake.
Disney really dropped their song game since Tangled. My sister and I rewatched it a few days ago and the difference between Mother knows best and the reprise really hit me like a truck, because in neither does Gothel actually drop her facade, but both feel very threatening to the audience. And Magnifico doesn’t show any threat, even in the ‘evil’ part of the song
Yeah does ANYONE care about any Disney song after tangeled?
I think the one I've seen get the most attention since is the REJETED villain song from the Lorax.
It wasn't a crappy pop song and was instead a melodic peace that went HARD during it's last part.
THey rejected that and went with an irritating song that is catchy enough to get stuck in your head ... but you don't really want it in there because overall it just feels like an okay pop song and isn't something that sticks with you.
IF you haven't seen it look up "biggering". A lot of people think it was rejected because it did too good a job at calling out coprorate for their bullshit so the executives axed it.
I liked Encanto's music, but maybe that's just rose colored glasses. It was definitely pop and not theater, but it felt purposeful instead of lazy
@@metazoxan2 Honestly, both Moana's and Encanto's songs were really good in my opinion. They don't sound as generic as pop music and Surface Pressure was actually amazing. But maybe I'm biased because it's Lin Manuel Miranda
@@Picky_pidgeon Oh yeah I guess Moana was after Tangled ... but while Moana's songs were decent.
It's closest thing to a villain song "Shiny" was honestly terrible. I could barely understand some of the lyrics because of the sound balancing.
The most memorble song was "You're welcome" and it's more because of how it was notable off key but still kinda good.
I can't say I recall Encanto's song off the top of my head so I won't comment on that one.
But still even if some songs are ... decent they pale in comparison to the iconic ones of the past and none of them are villain songs.
So even taking those two movies into account there is a severe villain song drought at Disney.
@@metazoxan2 The thing with Shiny may just be an issue with the dubbing, in my native language it's honestly amazing, same with You're Welcome.
As said in the cideo, both Moana and Encanto don't really have a villain and that might be a problem, Room where it Happens is proof that the writer is capable of writing a memorable villain musical number. And that's what's missing in Wish - the drama of musical theatre
Hilariously, a good Disney-esque villian song in recent months is from the R-rated comedy musical Hazbin Hotel, which had the absolute banger: "Hell is Forever"
They hyped up the fact that we finally have an actual Disney villain with an actual song after so many years.
And this is the song we get?
"Artistry comes from risk."
That's one of the best quotes I've heard as of late.
I think the perfect Disney villain song is World's Greatest Criminal Mind, which ironically has an upbeat vibe throughout while remaining sinister. Its purpose is to show what kind of flamboyant but savage beast Ratigan is at his core.
Yeah, love for the Great Mouse Detective 💖
I agree that it's great, because it juxtaposes the upbeat song with the obviously terrified henchmice, and ends with the brutal murder of one for drunkenly stating the obvious truth.
It's so much better in so many ways, 'This is the thanks I get?' doesn't even compare.
I wonder what kind of disney villain song The Judge would get.
I feel the same way about Gaston. It outlines how the villagers are lowkey a little terrified of him and don’t want to disagree with him or let him get upset. But it sounds like some upbeat English pub song
@@jacksont9455I never got the impression they were terrified of Gaston, more strongly admired him. The whole thing outlines his ego but ends by revealing his rather duplicitous nature.
2:33 ItS gEnEtIcS!1!!
You so perfectly articulated every problem I had but didn't know how to describe, tysm for this video!
4:06 “People die when they are killed”
Just because you're correct doesn't mean you're right
"Rejoice, Emiya Shirou."
“Every 60 seconds in Africa, a minute passes.”
@@arrontheprotogen9276Together we can stop this.
I feel like it would've been received better if it wasn't a pop song. It doesn't sound evil. It sounds like one of those really annoying get-stuck-in-your-head tunes that my mom would send me everyday
Like every disney villain have different music and song are there it okey pop song problem they do not executed that way even story bad that why but the story is good and lyrics is dark or intimating and tone and music match the story then it becomes great disney villain song
Exactly. I just can’t see it as evil in any way with the duh duh duh in the background n all that 😭
Like another certain song that had a similar problem about the second point (cough cough How bad could I be)
@@BeautifulBelladonna exactly I WISH THEY USED BIGGERING INSTEAD
I think the lyrics would've been relentlessly mocked regardless tho. A good tune can't really save "I got these genes from outer space! 🤪"
This was a really cool breakdown, I’m glad I found it! Being a songwriter definitely makes me interested in seeing breakdowns of different songs, it helps me learn more about something I love learning about
The biggest thing is that all of the best villain songs have a point where you could argue it goes completely off the rails. If that doesn't happen in the song, then a proper score will have a reprise or another song that fulfills this criteria (e.g. "Mother Knows Best" in Tangled getting a reprise later on and "Gaston" in Beauty and the Beast being contrasted by the mayhem of the Mob Song.). This rule is even felt in stage musicals, with one of my favorites being "Where Will You Stand When the Flood Comes?" from Parade or "What Is It About Her?" from The Wild Party (Lippa). "This is The Thanks I Get?" kinda fails in this regard in the most egregious way possible because of that little "Wait, where were we?" which destroys all of the tension that it had built up instead of even resolving it. The yell at the end feels forced too, like it's lapping at dry sands to try to get any of the drama back.
"this sounds like a glee cover (derogatory)" absolutely.