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- Опубліковано 21 жов 2024
- Last week's episode of The Late Morning Program with Namarasa Podcast with Vineet Chander lit a fuse and sparked some really powerful feedback.
But the conversation is just getting started! Next week, I am deeply honored to host Hridayananda Dasa Goswami and Bob Cohen (Brahma Tirtha das) for a follow-up conversation, aimed at a deeper understanding of each other's perspectives.
Unity in essentials. Diversity in non-essentials. Charity in all things. These should be the guiding principles of any religious movement.
I just discovered this channel. Have to say its one of the best. Great work.
thank you sir. please find us on facebook too
Wearing tilak ( gopi chandan ) is not Indian tradition. It is part of the Vaisnava etiquette, very necessari and esential.
No one ever said that it was. It’s dust of the gopis feet, thus “Gopi” Chandan
But then why not wearing it? It seems that Krishna west is separating what is Indian from what is really vedic, for example, according to their opinion, the dress (dhoti, etc) so they thing this things are not essential and since they are not wearing tilak it seems they fit the Gopi chandan in the “non essencial” categori
@@dandafunk but they were disputing sarees ua-cam.com/video/eql3iwe_StM/v-deo.html reminds me of this 2 years ago when the NYT tried the shame indian women from waering Sarees.
Our only real vaishnava clothing is Gopi Chandan and kanti mala. Truthfully though most of us only wear Gopi Chandan to the temple, we won't wear it to the office.
Otherwise even butchers in India wear dhoti kurta.
@@haridas8561 Of course, a sannyasi should wear tilak, and also his saffron robes. This is essential for him
Great discussion and I applaud Hridayananda Maharaj for making people think deeper about what is real Krishna consciousness and also his great statements on what is real diversity.
Hridayananda is one of the original magnificent-eleven self-appointed paramhamsa gurus that lied they were appointed by Srila Prabhupada. On the basis of this lie, he went around ISKCON violently throwing out his godbrothers into the street. And that includes Pradyumna dasa who was appointed by Srila Prabhupada to complete the Srimad Bhagavatam. He is a Kali-Chela.
Details vs. Principles.
Thanks for this conversation. It's hard to host a spiritually-grounded discussion that is so difficult and wholesome at the same time, so kudos to the program and format. Also, more from Brahma Tirtha prabhu please! I do wonder if a lot of the backlash towards Krishna West now is simply the word "West". That automatically creates division in my opinion. ("West" implies "Not East". As misleading as "Festival of India", not to be one-sided.) I know young people in India who would be more inclined to become spiritual if Krishna West was accessible to them, even if their parents feel more at home attending the local ISKCON temple. (The cultural break isn't just valuable for different locales, but also different generations!)
prakrta pastimes do reflect aprakrta pastimes. So what attire does Krsna wear? pitambara dhara sragvi, saksan manmatha manmatha. Krsna wears a pitambara. Is that part of Indian culture or eternal Vraja culture?
Loved Brahma Tirtha Prabhu's conclusion. I think we should try to acommodate people so they feel comfortable in spiritual life, but at the same time we should also be aware of our own ethnic and cultural conditioning, so we can attain this "sama darshana" or equal vision. Prabhupada built a house where we all could live. It is in ourselves to rise up to that loving standard as a family.
Hridayananda is one of the original magnificent-eleven self-appointed paramhamsa gurus that lied they were appointed by Srila Prabhupada. On the basis of this lie, he went around ISKCON violently throwing out his godbrothers into the street. And that includes Pradyumna dasa who was appointed by Srila Prabhupada to complete the Srimad Bhagavatam. He is a Kali-Chela.
KW what do they have to show for their efforts? Nothing.
Prabhupada said we are one family, we are all iskcon, and we have a family business.
@@rasaprematube: Disagree
His works speaks for itself. What have you done for Krishna Consciousness?
All glories to assembled Vaisnavas! Fascinating discussion.Thank you.
Distributing books and approaching everyone is a practical way for me to practice "sama darshinah" 🙏
viewpoint diversity being purged while promoting 'diversity' being hypocritical is a good point made by Hrdayananda Gosvami
True
Great conversation! I have to admit that I had never seen things from your point, Namarasa and Venkatta prabhus. Now I understand your concerns about KW. I'd like to add a few of points, with your kind permission.
I also think it's hard to define a 'western' but I think it DOES need a definition. For any marketing plan you need to define who are your potential clients, right? (I'm not saying we should ONLY aim for 'westerns', but they are a big part of it.). To me, a western is a person who grew up being familiar with judeo-christian symbols. Your case is different, because you are familiar with both. But for us, who didn't grow up with "hindu" symbols and tradition, it's very hard to keep up, specially at the beginning, so I have to resonate with Maharaj on this point. I think it's a great thing that we have a preaching program that looks and sounds more comfortable to 'westerns'. Since you had a very different upbringing, I think it's hard for you guys to imagine how itimidating it is at the beginning for us 'westerns'. There is, in some temples, pressure to dress like "indians". There is pressure to adopt indian habits. There is pressure on us, women-bodied souls, because of some purely indian traditions. Maharaj's not making those things up, they exist.
My second point is that we should have both things! What Venkatta prabhu was talking about, like embracing differences and accepting people of all kinds, etc, etc, is what ISKCON should be, in my opinion! I don't think we should change all ISKCON temples to KW style and I think that's definitely not what maharaj's trying to do. I think it's great that we have different fronts of preaching, with different approaches! I see no reason why we should change that, or have a more "inclusive definition" of a western, as Venkatta prabhu was saying. Why not have both styles of programs? Although I undestand the presentation is not what you guys are most comfortable with, and the essence is the same, it's to take Krishna to people. Why would you feel hesitant to help?
My last point is that I love Venkatta prabhu's vision. Why don't you guys start a program like that? For citizens of the world like yourselves (nor hindus, nor westerns or who are a little bit of both)? I'd love to see people being themselves more and not having to worry so much with fitting in, dressing how they feel comfortable, sharing different views, and encouraging each other on KC. I think it would be amazing! It would be a promising new approach. This podcast is already a step towards that vision, I think.
Anyways, thank you for this episode and for hosting this amazing podcast!
And what is the result of KW preaching? What do they have to show for it? Zero. They failed miserably.
@@samspade2657 does me not leaving Krishna consciousness count? My obeisance and gratitude to Maharaj. Thank you for giving shelter to so many🙏
hare krishna please do amarendra dāsa next on your Podcast
dressing Banke Bihari Krsna in jeans and a t-shirt caused a big row in Vrindavan
WOW, amazing conversation. Yes to 'walk the talk"! Can you please bring this panel back together for more? Thank you, Hare Krsna!
Radharani wearing a choli is not part of Goloka? It is just part of Indian chauvanism?
This part confused me a bit too. Not to judge anyone who doesn't wear a choli (I certainly don't mind), but it's hard to divorce Vedic culture from Indian culture
Prabhupada introduced us to the Krishna concious world view - He started Iskcon not Isgcon (god-consciousness) - and taught that that is the Param Satya. Its nice that Krishna West continues with the name Krishna. Religious people have traditional religious garb, and that hasn't held back Buddhists, Christians, Muslims etc. Hindus for some reason are the ones seeming most embarrassed about their traditional ways. I understand we don't want to be seen as Hindus and are Sanatana Dharmists or Gaudiya Vaisnavas, but even then, what is the issue with presenting ourselves wearing vaisnava tilaka? Our acharyas I've heard would say seeing someone not wearing tilaka was impure like seeing a dead body and anyone wearing tilaka should be respected, like in South India even the elephants wear tilak. The external Vesa encourages the Avesa or absorbtion in Krsna consciousness
Also, while Hydayananda Gosvami speaks against the leftist tendency to purge viewpoint diversity, he also speaks against so-called Indian chauvinism which pardon me if I'm wrong, but that seems like pushing a leftist talking point to shame those who promote traditional Krsna concious or Vaisnava ways.
In the spiritual world are we to believe that Krsna and His associates are attired as European gentlemen and ladies?
Anyway, nice, respectful conversation and good to hear all viewpoints. Haribol!
@@RasikanandaSwami "Hindus are embrassed about there traditional ways" really? That couldnt be futher from the truth mabe in America for the propoganda Hindu bashing by the news (for example the New York times peice written by a American born Pakistani Muslim stating Sarees are oppressive misogynistic Hindu Nationalistic dress which He got massive backlash by Women and the Hindu and Muslim communities in India)thats pushing a particular agenda since western people are put off by how much we love our culture they feel threatened even uncomfortable that were not assimilating so in order to mentain harmony we are complicit that's all.
Hare Krishna Dear Prabhu. How do I go about becoming a guest on your podcast? I am just a normal guy and would love to share how I became Krishna Conscious. Hare Krishna Keith
After the video of a talk that HH Bhakti Vikas Swami released a few days ago on his channel, it behoves this podcast to discuss the FDG issue with appropriate guests in a systematic detailed manner taking in account all the available arguements that both the sides have presented till date.
Can you send me the video?
@@amulsutaria7845 ua-cam.com/video/VPV8Kp3Swm0/v-deo.html
I really like honest conversations, as we are all individual, and it's great to see us humans cooperating.
Hare Krishna Please Do Amarendra Dāsa Next On Your Podcast
highly awaited
Would have liked to hear more from Brahma Tirtha Prabhu
HARE KRISHNA PRABHU PLEASE DO AMARENDRA DĀSA NEXT ON YOUR PODCO
Not sure what Vineet Chander is doing here. Prabhupada clearly stated Iskcon is not part of Hinduism.
Always feel strength when I listen to Hridayananda Maharaja
I just feel it's best to stick to Prabhupada's formula. I think he would have mapped out for the future generations and he would have catered for it. Preaching to the indigenous people of any country his formula attracted westerners so I don't know what's wrong with using srila prabhupada's formula. When we joined it was all westerners with their conditioning and we didn't complain, being Indian bodied and few Indians joined then. Now it's all Indians and it goes in cycles. We have to be patient. Then it was swamped with Russian devotees, Italians, now Chinese. So I feel it is timeless wisdom that stands the test of time. I wish we could just follow Prabhupada's formula, it attracted me and it will attract everyone, keep it simple. 🙏
It was so satisfying to witness this discussion! Namarasa Prabhu, you did really good job of facilitating it. Whether I personally agree with Maharaja's approach to "refreshing" our movement or not, I deeply respect his sincerity and enthusiasm. I understand his concerns. At the same time, I understand and even more relate to what Venkata Bhatta Prabhu says (and not being from Indian background). At the end I am glad this podcast happened. Gives me hope we can go through and discuss all the other "hot" topics as well, in a respectful, mature manner as you all did. Alakananda DD
Ask yourself this question. After so many years what has Krsna West accomplished? How many devotees have they made and so on? What is the answer?
I once made a big effort to get to a morning program only to be shunned because I wasn’t wearing a sari.
(Prabhupada discipline)
THE saree IS vedic culture. I'm sure what you were wearing wasnt appropriate for the setting.
I agree we should not put pressure on newcomers to put dhoti etc but why sannyasis and devotees who were wearing devotional clothes and tilak are not wearing them anymore just to attract more people? Why Srila Prabhupada did not say that everyone can dress as they like.... that’s just a detail. Why did he make his disciples wear devotional clothes? I think some important points are not addressed in this video
Let's be frank. 95 % of Indians/Hindus are very caste-conscious/racist, but are masters of hiding their true mentality and aims, and acting covertly for their 'communal advancement'. In a word: sneaky. Furthermore, they envy those fair-skinned white people; especially they don't like to 'work under' a white person, whom from their racism they consider inferior. In ISKCON, wherever these racists gain a foothold in the temple, especially in the management, they naturally and covertly form a self-interested cabal, methodically 'push out' the white people, Prabhupada adherents, and turn the temple into an insular brown-only Hindu cash-cow social club with gushy, showy weddings instead of the preaching, book distribution, and street sankirtana parties of the Srila Prabhupada era. Forget austerity. That is clearly the direction of ISKCON and is obviously, obviously apparent all over India and in the West where there is a large Indian community. As such, generally, they are "Kali-chela"; they look like devotees but their hearts are murky ponds, looking for status, money and control, but a show of racial religiosity. They will never preach to white people, never; thus the mission of Srila Prabhupada is destroyed. Their first seduction is donations, then they enter management, start weddings, and then throw out the white people. The ISKCON GBC and 'gurus' turn a blind eye to all this as they live off the Hindu cash-cow and buy their various luxurious apartments here and there and fly all over the world to their meetings and banquets, and check their international bank accounts. As stated before, where is the austerity of ISKCON leaders? As they preside over the destructive editing of Srila Prabhupada books without a word of protest against the flagrantly disobedient changes. Now in ISKCON, the quickest way to get thrown out on the street, or even murdered, is to talk openly about knowing and following Srila Prabhupada's clear instructions. Is this no the acid test?
The future of ISKCON is plain to see: Wherever the Indians rule, there will be no white people, and no preaching to white people. This will be especially seen after all the indolent western GBC and rubber-stamped gurus die off and become replaced by Indians. Russia, South America and other places where there are no racist Indians may get it together eventually - if they learn what is spiritual austerity and practice such austerity without being seduced by the Hindu cash-cow that has destroyed Srila Prabhupada's once vibrant, enthusiastic movement. Presently, ISKCON means International Society for Kali-Chela Consciousness.
@rasaprema dasa do you not have faith in lord chaitanyas predictions?
A sannyasi, who is a renounced monk, definitely should use monk robes, unless there is some restriction, like being in certain communist countries, where "Hindu" preachers are not allowed. Hollywood made monks and saffron robes look cool, mystical, interesting, etc. Why don´t take advantage of it? If a sannyasi feels more comfortable using regular clothes, he shouldn´t create a philosophy to justify it. Many grihasthas in the world developed nice preaching programs to introduce people to KC. What is the need to create a movement like Krishna West, when the same purpose can be fulfilled by encouraging programs like the traditional namahatta. The kind of Prasada, preaching style, etc, can be adjusted according to the local idiosyncrasy.
Helpful and healthy conversation!! 🕉❤️
If Prabhupada was alive, he would surely be ashamed of Krishna west.
"The problem will come when people of our own movement start to associate with Sahajiya's".
- Srila Prabhupada
There's no east nor west, there's iskcon. We all need to follow the footsteps of Acharya but not create anything that comes to our foolish mind.
Last comment (for now): Wasn't a big point and it shouldn't be one, but I chuckled a bit at the "stick dances", coming from a congregation with a huge Gujarati population. As if dandiya wasn't a folk dance used to celebrate . . . Navratri, which is a Vedic festival. (Not to mention, wasn't the raas lila depicted as garba?) Not a big deal though, just demonstrates cultural differences. IMO we need to be okay with those differences if they cater to different locales and generations
Hridayananda is one of the original magnificent-eleven self-appointed paramhamsa gurus that lied they were appointed by Srila Prabhupada. On the basis of this lie, he went around ISKCON violently throwing out his godbrothers into the street. And that includes Pradyumna dasa who was appointed by Srila Prabhupada to complete the Srimad Bhagavatam. He is a Kali-Chela.
there are many economic interests within iskon in maintaining a certain style of clothing and more .... exporting Indian products, clothes and various trinkets .... many devotees live with these activities ..... a a lot of money revolves around yoga, catering, the export of Indian products, courses in Vedic culture and language, cooking classes and much more including travel to India and spiritual tourism ... a work and economic induced , I think, of a resistance in de-Hinduizing the movement
Courage ❤. Yes Maharaja
HARE KRISHNA PLEASE DO AMARENDRA DĀSA NEXT ON YOUR PODCAST
Amarendra and prem prayojan! they share so many mannerisms, do you know if they share a connection?
Let's be frank. 95 % of Indians/Hindus are very caste-conscious/racist, but are masters of hiding their true mentality and aims, and acting covertly for their 'communal advancement'. In a word: sneaky. Furthermore, they envy those fair-skinned white people; especially they don't like to 'work under' a white person, whom from their racism they consider inferior. In ISKCON, wherever these racists gain a foothold in the temple, especially in the management, they naturally and covertly form a self-interested cabal, methodically 'push out' the white people, Prabhupada adherents, and turn the temple into an insular brown-only Hindu cash-cow social club with gushy, showy weddings instead of the preaching, book distribution, and street sankirtana parties of the Srila Prabhupada era. Forget austerity. That is clearly the direction of ISKCON and is obviously, obviously apparent all over India and in the West where there is a large Indian community. As such, generally, they are "Kali-chela"; they look like devotees but their hearts are murky ponds, looking for status, money and control, but a show of racial religiosity. They will never preach to white people, never; thus the mission of Srila Prabhupada is destroyed. Their first seduction is donations, then they enter management, start weddings, and then throw out the white people. The ISKCON GBC and 'gurus' turn a blind eye to all this as they live off the Hindu cash-cow and buy their various luxurious apartments here and there and fly all over the world to their meetings and banquets, and check their international bank accounts. As stated before, where is the austerity of ISKCON leaders? As they preside over the destructive editing of Srila Prabhupada books without a word of protest against the flagrantly disobedient changes. Now in ISKCON, the quickest way to get thrown out on the street, or even murdered, is to talk openly about knowing and following Srila Prabhupada's clear instructions. Is this no the acid test?
The future of ISKCON is plain to see: Wherever the Indians rule, there will be no white people, and no preaching to white people. This will be especially seen after all the indolent western GBC and rubber-stamped gurus die off and become replaced by Indians. Russia, South America and other places where there are no racist Indians may get it together eventually - if they learn what is spiritual austerity and practice such austerity without being seduced by the Hindu cash-cow that has destroyed Srila Prabhupada's once vibrant, enthusiastic movement. Presently, ISKCON means International Society for Kali-Chela Consciousness.
Why do you just say “white” people there’s way more other ethnicities than whites
Let's face it. ISKCON is history. Well on its way to full absorption into the Hindu kitchuri.
More like feminist nonsense. But you are right. It is dead.
Great conversation and contributions. Venkata, I’m curious how you would define Equity in our temples when we have such a hierarchical system from the Gurus, to the Temple President to the Sanyasis, to the GBC, to the pujari on down. As far as I can tell, we as a society don’t value a democratic marketplace of ideas like we have in the University. But, as Maharaja stated, it’s really a liberal ideal only if you agree with me. Otherwise, you are pilloried and burned at the stake. It’s not that we dismiss guru, sadhu, and sastra, but devotees are being forced to silo themselves amongst like minded individuals, because an ISKCON Temple is no longer a “house in which the whole world can live,” but rather a house you can visit if you agree with what the local authority deems to be their mental conception of Krishna Consciousness. In fact, spiritual truth transcends all these arguments and disagreements. But, because spiritual realization or spiritual principles have become secondary to the material administration of our society within the western world, we see all these things in material society reflected in ISKCON to a hyperbolic degree. So, power, status, money, position, etc. stand in as ciphers for spiritual advancement. In fact, they have nothing to do with actual spiritual realization or growth among our members, which should be our real mission. Love what you guys are doing. Keep up the good work. Hope to have you on my unmanifest podcast one day soon or vice versa. Best eternalrasa.com
Amazing! When is a follow up happening?
The bottom line is that KW is a failure and they have done nothing. They have had plenty of time but result is zero.
“Sectarianism is a natural byproduct of the Absolute Truth. When Acharyas first ascertain and instruct the Truth, it is not polluted with sectarianism. But the rules and regulations received through disciplic succession regarding the goal and the method of achieving it are changed in due course of time according to the mentality and locale of the people. A rule that is followed by one society is not necessarily accepted in another society. That is why one community is different from another. As a community gradually develops more respect for its own standards, it develops hatred towards other communities and considers their standards inferior. These sectarian symptoms are seen in all countries since time immemorial. This is prominent amongst neophytes and found to some extent amongst madhyama-adhikaris. Amongst uttama-adhikaris, however, there is no trace of sectarianism."
-Srila Bhaktivinoda Thakur, excerpt from Sri Krsna Samhita Introduction
What Hridayananda says about "the Left" is extremely disturbing. Makes me distrust the Krishna West project even more.
He's a leftist all the way around.
I must have missed this. Time stamp?
Hridayananda is one of the original magnificent-eleven self-appointed paramhamsa gurus that lied they were appointed by Srila Prabhupada. On the basis of this lie, he went around ISKCON violently throwing out his godbrothers into the street. And that includes Pradyumna dasa who was appointed by Srila Prabhupada to complete the Srimad Bhagavatam. He is a Kali-Chela.
Would have loved to hear more from Brahma Tirtha Prabhu. The other two talked too much with too much back and forth - it became tiring to listen to and just them defending their beliefs that no longer became intellectually stimulating
Too much audio feedback, ugh.
Regards all the present leaders being called to a meeting with Srila Prabhupada - We might guess HDG would have some explaining to do as a Sanyassi dressed in a base ball cap, jeans, t shirt with no tilak
1:13:30 sp vision
Radha was Krishna’s maternal aunt (i.e.: Mami). Is this not illicit relationship? And he had a sexual relationship with her. Krishna is married to Rukmani the daughter of King Rukmangad. Radha was married to Krishna’s uncle. Krishna who abandons his lawfully wedded wife Rukmini and seduces Radha wife of another man and lives with her in sin without remorse. Here you cannot say just because Krishna is the supreme being he is justified in doing this. In fact if he is so all-knowing he could have made Radha like maybe the sister of Krishnas uncles’ wife at least he would have been saved from the blasphemous act of having sex with her maternal aunt.
With all respect. But Vekanta is used a typicla Woke slogan: "ISKCON members homofobia, antifeminism, etc... Are doing that much peolple go away " But Prabhupada speak out againg this Woke ideology even in Reporters interviews and never said ISKCON need to be inclusive with this Woke ideology. Never.... Prabhupada is de Funder Acarya and the top authority and anybody has the right to preach inside in ISKCON other ideas that are not the Prabhupada teachings.
Jaya Srila Acharyadeva, Hare Krsna 🙏🙏🙏
ISKCON is no longer the street-sankirtana, unmotivated bhakti movement of the Sri Sri Gaura Nitai.
Then go in the street and liberate these people don’t just spread negativity here
@@alexl9162 nice 👍
It's funny these days how rules and regulations can be moulded as per one's comforts.
I sincerely understand that there nothing is above BHAVA, and one cannot question other about the same. But isn't becoming more self conscious in regards to how one is in line with scriptures is important? Isn't the same, Precursor to the BHAV??
Malibu Stacy with the hat going into the iskcon dictionary
1:51:08 To the speaker , pls create your own institution or group. You have hoarded the whole podcast.
Since you know it all.
We would have loved to have heard from the other two.
Any answers that HDG had given you , you are just not satisfied. You monopolize that whole q and a.
They both talk too much. Would have loved to hear more from other two also
The other guy who's having a conversation with HDG has too much "I".
I still don't know what his issues are. He feels left out? He feels not represented?
Like HDG said, it's not about the body.
I am also not represented by any of these temples. I'm neither Indian or pure Western and yet I don't ever feel "underrepresented ".
Because I don't go to the temple to perpetuate my "I"ness. On the contrary, I go to temple to forget who and what I am.
Perhaps he should focus more service. Sorry but i perceive too much ego.
When he develops his own organization of Krishna consciousness then he can create his own rule.
I don't understand why he berates HDG with the same stuff over and over.
You say it's not about you, but all I hear is "For me.." 3x
He's so hung up with clothing.
Let it go.
Sorry.
Pranam but I will check out other HDG video
"howie still playing the fake guru game aye!! CHEATER 👉🤓👹👈
I would recommend everyone to read Eleven naked emperors by Henry Doktorski. Very revealing book.
Why are the junior devotees positioned on the screen ABOVE the Srila Prabhupada disciples? Very revealing of your mentality.
You clearly understand why they are positioned ABOVE the SP disciples. As you repeatedly & frankly point out, 95% of Indian / Hindu's are caste conscious /racists i.e sneaky. That would explain why these junior Indian devotees positioned themselves above the White Western Senior SP disciples. Would'nt it ?