Thank you so much for this podcast Prabhuji 🙏🏼 Jagadananda Prabhuji is ill at this time , sending him Prayers and well wishes in speedy recovery 🙏🏼 Hare Krishna
There are so many meanings of each word in sanskrit, really sanskrit learning is encouraged for some young devotees but under guidance of a bonafide Guru, not independently. By sanskrit learning we cannot understand sastra, only by the mercy of Guru and Vaisnavas the knowledge is revealed, it is a descending process.
The history that Jagadananda brings up, there is a lot of pain. If you listen to those recordings of Srila Prabhupada toward the end of his manifest pastimes, especially the untranslated Bengali portions, you can see he was genuinely asking for forgiveness, it’s heart breaking to hear especially if you know Bengali. Prabhupad was heavy handed with the Gaudiya math, but not without reason, there were factions who were envious, there were those who could not yet accept westerners doing service, those feuds continue to this day! This is living history. There are Gaudiya maths who still to this day feel the sting of Prabhupada words. Dhanya rasi verse from cc.. you can see. Anyways. What to say, these are lila of great souls, who are we to get involved with this, if we get in the middle we will get destroyed. Best to just do Pranam to all and hold tight to the feet of Prabhupada
Devananda Gaudiya Math is where Narayan Maharaj first joined under Keshav Maharaj. It was actually Narayan Maharaj who invited and asked Abhay Charan Prabhu to contribute to the Hindi bhagavat patrika published by Keshavji Gaudiya math
Dear Namarasa Prabhu, thank you for your courage and open mindness to discuss such a controversial, but from historic perspective important topics. Looking forward to part 2. 🙏
Srila Prabhupada visits the ashrama of Srila Lalita Prasad, the brother of Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati Thakura. As the last remaining son of Srila Bhaktivinoda Thakura, he is very old. His ashrama consists of a small temple and a few red-brick dwellings, none of which are well maintained. Prabhupada talked for some time with him and some of his management committee. They discussed the plans he had for development of Srila Bhaktivinoda's birth site. Nothing conclusive was arrived at with regard to their giving some land or even a lease on the property. Achyutananda: He looked exactly like their father, Bhaktivinode Thakur. In his house I saw some of the hand written books written by Bhaktivinode Thakur. At that time Prabhupada was living in Bhaktivinode Thakur's birthplace in Birnagar. Prabhupada said, "We will take care of you. We will develop this place. It will be an international center." Lalita Prasad said, "Yes, but I must be guru. You must step down and I must be acharya." Prabhupada said, "Okay," and we left. Prabhupada then looked at me and said, "I didn't believe it, that even after giving up lust, desire for prestige lingers on even to the end." When I asked him, "What broke up the Gaudiya Matha?" Prabhupada said, "They were always worried who was going to give initiation. They couldn't wait a few years until a guru manifested?" He said, "My god-brothers were fighting over material properties and money."
There is a historiographical notion that one can only begin to genuinely document/interpret history from periods 30-50 years, a sense that one can only do it by "looking back at things" as opposed to "looking over one's shoulder".... iow there is a sensivity when one is examining events that involve people who are presently active in roles from the said historical era. Practically all the devotees were extremely young when they came to KC, and many of those who came to occupy key institutional positions are still functioning in that capacity in the present. I don't say this to suggest fault or that they should be removed, I am just pointing out how there is a unique social phenomena that has manifest that tends to default to a very censorous approach to history (or perhaps its more accurate to call it a "triumphalist" approach to history ... namely history written by devotees that goes to pains to maintain a sort of status quo of a present moment). The result is a sort of historical cloud that may, in the long run, impair the institution 's ability to examine the manner in which it is traversing time, place and circumstance..... of course, historians will eventually come in to fulfill their requirements, but probably at about 20-30 years later than what would normally be expected. I suspect that this situation may have the consequence of somewhat nefarious published critiques of Iskcon coming to occupy more elevated positions as "source material" than the rightly deserve .... I think there is great value in "airing the historical space" with discussions like these,
I really hope that we'll be hearing from Padmanabha Swami soon. He's being put through a hellish Inquisition right now and it would be nice to show him some love and support in this difficult time and to also give him that listening ear that those closest to him have cruelly denied him.
@@nitaigauranga7896 search thru Namarasa's interviews, he's been on the show 2 or 3 times. He's been treated extremely unfairly by his "guru" Tripurari who just rejected him as a disciple the root cause being a book that Padmanabha wrote. Tripurari initially supported the book but changed his mind when he started taking flak for it from other Gauḍīya math "gurus".
Awesome interview. Fantastic Podcast! Really happy to heard Jagad sharing his experiences and knowledge about Gaudiya Vaishnava history. NITAI GOURA HARI BOL RADHE RADHE SHYAM
The video description is a little misleading, as Jagadananda Prabhu is disciple of both Srila Prabhupada and Lalita Prasada Thakura, as it becomes obvious during the talk.
Namarasa prabhu, at 5:42 Jagadananda prabhu says that Srila Prabhupada wanted to open a “Varnashrama college” and you confirm to be aware of this. Kidnly guide to know more about this. Did he specifically want a college as a secular place where students would get to know of a varnashrama system?
This is monumental. For the first time, an authentic, lineal spiritual descendant of Sriman Mahaprabhu's sampradāya is gracing this podcast instead of the usual new age Hare Krishna cultists.
Hare Krishna I like prabhu energy and I can understand his deep longing to understand traditional gaudiya bhajan and history, but he never replay on the question why he took initiation when he was already initiate from SP
Regarding posdible q's for part 2, it would be good to hear something about how social changes (such as radical changes brought in by modernism/industrialism, or even the shift from mughal control, to british control to eventually indian independence) has wrought changes on how vaisnavas organize themselves (ie, how they integrate into the world around them). Jagad pr briefly mentioned something about several era differences between the 15th to the 20th century exploration of vaisnavism, and it would be good to hear more. I am particularly interested in how this relates to the advent of modernism (something that totally upended the social order that housed religiousity in the west). I guess this points to the issue of the role that formal institutional bodies play in vaisnavism .... from my amateur historian comprehension, it seems that bhaktivinoda thakur was responding to the phenomena of india getting blasted over about 50 years by what the west had about 500 years to assimilate (namely technology as a power that restructures society), and this project was implemented in many novel ways by bhaktisiddhantha. It would be good to hear to what degree jagad thinks this is or isn't the case. A TL:DR version of this question might be something along the lines of "How can the social body of vaisnavism weather modernism?"
Great questions, Kanuji. Not ones that I can answer right here and now in a short space. But there are some articles on my blog that might be helpful in thinking about the question. jagadanandadas.blogspot.com/2010/11/charismatic-renewal-and.html
1:44:38 also the weird thing is how can ordinary person, if you think Bhaktivinode is, could possibly give Bhagavatam class, or even writing some Vaisnava literature, before got initiated? And also siddha form of Bhaktivinoda is Kamala manjari, if that prabhu really sure or pushing the importance of Vipin Bihari as diksa guru, can he tell atleast the name or detail of siddha svarup of him? How can someone putting leg above the head of eternal associate of Krsna?
Lalita Prasad may have been the son of Srila Bhaktivinode but he wasn’t his only disciple. Many of the early followers of Srila Bhaktisiddhanta where actually initiated by Bhaktivinode and knew him well, most notably Bhakti Pradip Tirtha Goswami. Bhakti Prajana Keshava Goswami was also well known to Srila Gaura Kishore Das Babaji. The problem is their accounts of history don’t tally up with Lalita Prasads. That means a lot of what Lalita Prasad had to say about his father wasn’t always taken in high regard, because it didn’t correspond with the accounts of people who knew Bhaktivinode well. I think there’s a disregard for the broader vision of Bhaktivinode & Bhaktisiddhanta from Lalita Prasad who was more in favour of the Goswami linages of the Gaudiyas. They wanted a global mission not a local Bengali tradition that didn’t work well outside of India.
@@jackbootshamangaming4541 That’s fare enough but If it wasn’t for Bhaktisiddhanta & Prabhupada’s efforts in taking that to the west you’d know nothing about Gaudiya vaishnaism. As for the ‘traditional ways’, I’ve traveled extensively through Bengal, Orissa and I know Vrindavan well, the only thing that stands out as fundamentally different between the Goswami families and Gaudiya math is Siddha Praneli and perhaps Gaudiya Sanyas, and not all Of the so called traditional parivaras are united in their opinion on that either.
@ओम् ब्राह्मण Shraddha ॐ श्रद्धा If you look for controversy in anything you’ll find it. You’ve stated lots of things in this post but they’ve been addressed competently so many times it’s just boring hearing about it now. I mean no offence to followers of these lines, but sometimes you’ve got to be sensible about these issues and say good luck if that’s your opinion and leave it at that.
Part 2 - vote 🗳 here. ☑️ As long as it’s accurate, this is history we all deserve to know. We should be grateful that such a personality has had such a rich, deep and varied devotional journey in Gaudiya Vaisnavism. Pranams to you both.
If you want to get manjari bhava then you don't hear and chant with everyone... It is important to discriminate because each sampradaya has a different mood and different deity that they worship. So if you want to develop the mood of a Rupanuga (our line) you have to associate with Rupanugas. That is boliling the milk. Not just listening from anyone who speaks Bhagavatam for money or doesn't follow properly.
Srila Bhaktivedanta Narayana Gosvami Maharaja didn't mind devotees leaving Iskcon when je was banned from Iskcon, but before that we didn't want devotees to leave Iskcon. Also he is in the same line as Srila Prabhupada, so devotees who go to him are not actually leaving Iskcon. SBVNM is a pure devotee, that's the problem with learning, you learn some so called history and then disagree with pure devotees. You base your knowledge in the knowledge you gather with your mundane mind and senses and then you disrespect pure devotees who can actually see the reality beyound speculation
This 100% Narayan Maharaj was initiated sannyasi and mathura dham vasi probably when Jagatji was still in school. This is also the problem with modern scholars, they think they can go toe to toe with great devotee and living devotee like Narayan Maharaj.
@@33333Tarun you know I have nothing against independent thought, but you need to come from a place of respect, not talking about Narayan Maharaj like you have some qualification to judge someone who was practicing Vaishnavism while you are in diapers. Even normal Hindu won’t do that what to speak of Vaishnava. Get real
sadhaks want a guru like Ramakrishna who will touch them and awaken . but the sadhaks fail to realize they maynot be as spiritually ripe as Vivekananda
@SanchitArora-vu5sw On what context did you say that? Vivekananda Swamiji had urge for sex???? what basis is there for such a claim!! Also kindly clarify how you say that he had no control on his tounge!!
Hoje em dia esse Jagadananda está pedindo perdão para os gaudiya vaisnavas, por suas ofensas. Difícil vai ser obter o perdão dos maha bhagavatas que deixaram esse mundo há tanto tempo antes mesmo de ele nascer. Maha bhagavata esses, que esse homem tem suscitado questionamentos e dúvidas nas mentes de devotos pouco preparados durante muitos anos. No mínimo deveria se tocar de que não conheceria nem uma gota de cultura védica e ainda seria um meleccha, se não fosse o esfoço e estratégias planejadas por Srila Bhaktissidhanta Saraswati Thakur e Swami Maharaja Prabhupada. Ele é a prova de como o orgulho de se achar um erudito, pode acabar com a própria vida espiritual.
a nice character who in the past had many skeletons of abused children in the closet ... surely he is a good witness and an active participant in the world of Vaisnava and Gaudiya Math, and, it will be interesting to hear him still tell his experiences and studies
This doesn't make sense. Who are you talking about?? Srila Bipin Bihari Goswami lived prior to Prabhupad Sri Kanupriya Goswami if that is the same "Kanu Priya" you're speaking of.
Hare Krsna. I understand that the intention of this interview is to basically know insights of other persons as well and not to downplay anybody. In any case it's a well known fact that Jagadananda Das is a very questionable personality in terms of his actions and believes and what he is propagating :- 1. BSST was not initiated by Gaur Kishore Das Babaji hence our Parampara line is not Bonafide 2. Gauranga Nagara (one of the deviated Apa Sampradaya) is Bonafide. 3. Gaudiya Vaiṣṇavas are not in the lineage of Madhva Sampradaya 4. Daivi Varnashram is Wrong And several others. Not to forgot, Jagadananda Das published an entire PDF which speaks totally attacking Blaspheming Srila BSST to the extent calling him even a demon incarnation etc. People like these maybe living a Satvik life, maybe doing Some Bhajan but such people are severely against our line, who have been constantly attacking our line. It is a fact that Jagadananda Das GAVE UP srila Prabhupada and took re initiation from Lalita Prasad Thakur another very controversial personality. Basically he rejected our line and took Initiation from someone Who was not very favourable to our line. I personally do not think it's necessary to conduct any 2nd part with him (only a suggestion) because it's merely unnecessary waste of time. Again this is not to Demonise anybody but it's just that somebody who has been so much attacking to our line cannot be accepted with the "Saragrahi Card" in every context
@@krzysztof-108 I have mentioned 4 points of which 3 were the opinions of Srila Bhaktivinod Thakur clearly in his books. And the 1st Point again happened during his Presence. So I don't understand what u mean by APA Sampradaya, unless Jagadananda Das believed his own Param Guru was an Unbonafide Apa Sampradaya personality.
@@madhavsinghsodhi1614 1st point is a bitter truth (announced by Anantavasudev - the head of GM after BSST - having enough proofs of it) and this was a real reason for the split in Gaudia Math.
It pains my heart to hear devotees say Bhaktivinoda thakura was a bengali. It is like saying Krishna was Indian.... They are Krishna's eternal associates, Bhaktivinoda thakura is Kamala Manjari and she is serving the divine couple in tbe eternal Goloka Vrindavan.
I expected so much more but instead just got the narrow vision of his opinion. So disappointed. Br Sridhar maharaja and Bhaktivedanta Narayana Maharaja did want you to leave your Guru ? How Odd of them! Every other thing Jagananda prabhu said is either incorrect or just a really bad way to reconcile things, to understand the dealings of vaisnavas.
Madhavendra Puri is accepted as the foundation of Gaudiya Vaishnavism but his Guru is not accepted . Because we don't find the symptoms of Vrindavan Love in the Gurus prior to Madhavendra Puri. This is the Dhara or the current . Similar to Rupanuga Dhara
The essential difference between Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Saraswati Thakur and Lalita Prasad Thakur was written in a Gaudiya Vaishnava Magazine . Perhaps the Harmonist . The title of the article was : Baba Or Radha The essential point of the article was to emphasize that Srila Bhaktisiidhanta Saraswati saw Bhakti Vinode Thakur as a Agent of Sri Radha whereas Lalita Prasad's vision of Bhaktivinode Thakur was not as a Agent of Sri Radha but of Father " Baba"
no doubt your intention is to enrich and encourage many Vaisnavas, however I think you MUST invite someone to speak on behalf of our Acaryas, such as someone from Gaudiya Math or Iskcon who can explain the other side of the coin about our disciplic succession and the controversies around Srila Bhaktisiddhanta. I seriously consider that this type of interview is not favorable for the general public, for devotees who are struggling to get 16 rounds and follow the principles and who rarely sit down to read sastra daily. No offense to Jagadananda prabhu, I do not believe that this interview will increase the devotion of many devotees, but rather it will cause those neophyte devotees to doubt and lose faith. Please take into account my humble observation.
Actually, Jagadananda barely scratched the surface of the diksa siksa issue. Most people in ISKCON/Gaudia Math (IGM) only know the fabricated stories that IGM leaders devised to bolster their own ideas and ranks. Sadly Jagat-ji talked around a lot of important history.
There's no proper discriminatiom between liberated souls and conditioned souls in this podcast. The whole point in the source of knowledge for us is that it should come from a liberated soul. You liked Srila BV Narayana Gosvami Maharaja but you never understood who he is. Because you then disregard his words.
This is what appears to happen when we interpret a scholar’s stories with something other than a simple historical mood, don’t you think? He wasn’t invited on the podcast for his realizations. He’s being engaged to provide historical recollections, as well as additional context about controversies with some autobiography thrown in.
There's no benefit in people just speaking about their opinions if they are against sastra and pure Vaisnavas. Come on, Srila Sridhar Maharaja was not happy with him and he didn't care. That shows no respect and no understanding or realization about who he is. A Pure Vaisnava like Srila Sridhar Maharaja is not happy with you and you just continue with your nonsense.... Why this kind of podcasts?
Interview with someone who worked together with someone who rejects Prabhupada... In the name of being broad minded now we're hearing from these persons... We should not give up proper discrimination in the name of being ver open and liberal.
Thank you so much for this podcast Prabhuji 🙏🏼
Jagadananda Prabhuji is ill at this time , sending him Prayers and well wishes in speedy recovery 🙏🏼
Hare Krishna
The grantha mandira is such an incredible resource- thank you so much Jagadananda Prabhu for creating that
There are so many meanings of each word in sanskrit, really sanskrit learning is encouraged for some young devotees but under guidance of a bonafide Guru, not independently. By sanskrit learning we cannot understand sastra, only by the mercy of Guru and Vaisnavas the knowledge is revealed, it is a descending process.
Would love to see you do another one with Jaga. This was so great and could listen to him for hours. Maybe a part 2 in the new year?? 🙏🏼🙏🏼🙏🏼
I heard he has terminal cancer in stage 4 😕
@@NamarasaPodcast saying prayers for him
far, one of the best program ever, we need part 2-3-4 💯
Jai,yes
The history that Jagadananda brings up, there is a lot of pain. If you listen to those recordings of Srila Prabhupada toward the end of his manifest pastimes, especially the untranslated Bengali portions, you can see he was genuinely asking for forgiveness, it’s heart breaking to hear especially if you know Bengali. Prabhupad was heavy handed with the Gaudiya math, but not without reason, there were factions who were envious, there were those who could not yet accept westerners doing service, those feuds continue to this day! This is living history. There are Gaudiya maths who still to this day feel the sting of Prabhupada words.
Dhanya rasi verse from cc.. you can see.
Anyways. What to say, these are lila of great souls, who are we to get involved with this, if we get in the middle we will get destroyed. Best to just do Pranam to all and hold tight to the feet of Prabhupada
Amazing comment
Overall this is the best podcast I have heard to date.
Jagadananda Das, very happy to hear from you! Radhe Radhe!
Why didn’t you ask what was the root problems? Please try to ask questions that will help will help the audience benefit and learn
root problems of what?
The fall out was over Bipin B not accepting the location of Yogapith found by Bhaktivinod
😱😱😱I did not know a lot of that history . Love ur pod cast
Devananda Gaudiya Math is where Narayan Maharaj first joined under Keshav Maharaj. It was actually Narayan Maharaj who invited and asked Abhay Charan Prabhu to contribute to the Hindi bhagavat patrika published by Keshavji Gaudiya math
57:08 I heard a devotee make this wonderful quote about Jagat ji once - "Jagat forgets more in a day than most of us know in a lifetime".
Hahahahah that’s awesome
He's certainly forgotten the child abuse he perpetrated in the 1970's in Dallas and Mayapur.
Dear Namarasa Prabhu, thank you for your courage and open mindness to discuss such a controversial, but from historic perspective important topics. Looking forward to part 2. 🙏
Srila Prabhupada visits the ashrama of Srila Lalita Prasad, the brother of Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati Thakura.
As the last remaining son of Srila Bhaktivinoda Thakura, he is very old. His ashrama consists of a small temple and a few red-brick dwellings, none of which are well maintained. Prabhupada talked for some time with him and some of his management committee. They discussed the plans he had for development of Srila Bhaktivinoda's birth site. Nothing conclusive was arrived at with regard to their giving some land or even a lease on the property.
Achyutananda: He looked exactly like their father, Bhaktivinode Thakur. In his house I saw some of the hand written books written by Bhaktivinode Thakur. At that time Prabhupada was living in Bhaktivinode Thakur's birthplace in Birnagar. Prabhupada said, "We will take care of you. We will develop this place. It will be an international center." Lalita Prasad said, "Yes, but I must be guru. You must step down and I must be acharya." Prabhupada said, "Okay," and we left. Prabhupada then looked at me and said, "I didn't believe it, that even after giving up lust, desire for prestige lingers on even to the end." When I asked him, "What broke up the Gaudiya Matha?" Prabhupada said, "They were always worried who was going to give initiation. They couldn't wait a few years until a guru manifested?" He said, "My god-brothers were fighting over material properties and money."
But I liked the fact that he spoke positively about Gaudiya Math
Hare Krishna, great insights, can't wait for part two of churning the nectar and maybe boiling the milk 😄🙏
❤ Nice work Namarasa prabhu!
There is a historiographical notion that one can only begin to genuinely document/interpret history from periods 30-50 years, a sense that one can only do it by "looking back at things" as opposed to "looking over one's shoulder".... iow there is a sensivity when one is examining events that involve people who are presently active in roles from the said historical era. Practically all the devotees were extremely young when they came to KC, and many of those who came to occupy key institutional positions are still functioning in that capacity in the present. I don't say this to suggest fault or that they should be removed, I am just pointing out how there is a unique social phenomena that has manifest that tends to default to a very censorous approach to history (or perhaps its more accurate to call it a "triumphalist" approach to history ... namely history written by devotees that goes to pains to maintain a sort of status quo of a present moment). The result is a sort of historical cloud that may, in the long run, impair the institution 's ability to examine the manner in which it is traversing time, place and circumstance..... of course, historians will eventually come in to fulfill their requirements, but probably at about 20-30 years later than what would normally be expected. I suspect that this situation may have the consequence of somewhat nefarious published critiques of Iskcon coming to occupy more elevated positions as "source material" than the rightly deserve .... I think there is great value in "airing the historical space" with discussions like these,
I really hope that we'll be hearing from Padmanabha Swami soon. He's being put through a hellish Inquisition right now and it would be nice to show him some love and support in this difficult time and to also give him that listening ear that those closest to him have cruelly denied him.
Who is he and what's happening to him?
@@nitaigauranga7896 search thru Namarasa's interviews, he's been on the show 2 or 3 times. He's been treated extremely unfairly by his "guru" Tripurari who just rejected him as a disciple the root cause being a book that Padmanabha wrote. Tripurari initially supported the book but changed his mind when he started taking flak for it from other Gauḍīya math "gurus".
@@dontwannabefound I think the entire Chaitanya family would be better off if there were less stupid fanatics like you around.
@@SKP-op4vd no, it's about his sleeping with devotees and sexually abusing them as a Sanyassi.
Prabhuji dandwat pranam please put timeline of topics also it would be very helpful
hare krishna - many people have been asking about that but i dont have time to do that. I am a busy family man with a full time job. Sorry!
Try to bring on Neal Nitai Delmonico. ❤ fun
1:50 - "Prabhupada rejuvenated the Gaudiya vaisnava sampradaya....nowadays you have ex-Iskcon people in all the different sampradayas"
There wasn't a part 2 😢
Awesome interview. Fantastic Podcast! Really happy to heard Jagad sharing his experiences and knowledge about Gaudiya Vaishnava history. NITAI GOURA HARI BOL RADHE RADHE SHYAM
Fascinating
Jagadananda Prabhu sadly passed away on May 29th, 2024
When can we expect the next podcast with Jagananda das?
He died last year.
Oh, I didn’t know. So sad. Sorry, I really was not aware of that.
@@NebojsaKM no problem.
Have you managed to get in contact with Neal Delmonico (Nitai Das) and ask for podcast interview?
@ no there is no plan
The video description is a little misleading, as Jagadananda Prabhu is disciple of both Srila Prabhupada and Lalita Prasada Thakura, as it becomes obvious during the talk.
Namarasa prabhu, at 5:42 Jagadananda prabhu says that Srila Prabhupada wanted to open a “Varnashrama college” and you confirm to be aware of this. Kidnly guide to know more about this. Did he specifically want a college as a secular place where students would get to know of a varnashrama system?
Mangalananda Prabhu told me that when he questioned Srila Prabhupada about starting a Varnashram college, S.P. told him to bring it up with the G.B.C.
This is monumental. For the first time, an authentic, lineal spiritual descendant of Sriman Mahaprabhu's sampradāya is gracing this podcast instead of the usual new age Hare Krishna cultists.
Sripad Premananda prabhu takks about this Gita Gana when he glorifies Srila Prabhupada
Hare Krishna I like prabhu energy and I can understand his deep longing to understand traditional gaudiya bhajan and history, but he never replay on the question why he took initiation when he was already initiate from SP
Please bring him back
Heard Prabhu left the body.
Regarding posdible q's for part 2, it would be good to hear something about how social changes (such as radical changes brought in by modernism/industrialism, or even the shift from mughal control, to british control to eventually indian independence) has wrought changes on how vaisnavas organize themselves (ie, how they integrate into the world around them). Jagad pr briefly mentioned something about several era differences between the 15th to the 20th century exploration of vaisnavism, and it would be good to hear more. I am particularly interested in how this relates to the advent of modernism (something that totally upended the social order that housed religiousity in the west). I guess this points to the issue of the role that formal institutional bodies play in vaisnavism .... from my amateur historian comprehension, it seems that bhaktivinoda thakur was responding to the phenomena of india getting blasted over about 50 years by what the west had about 500 years to assimilate (namely technology as a power that restructures society), and this project was implemented in many novel ways by bhaktisiddhantha. It would be good to hear to what degree jagad thinks this is or isn't the case.
A TL:DR version of this question might be something along the lines of "How can the social body of vaisnavism weather modernism?"
Great questions, Kanuji. Not ones that I can answer right here and now in a short space. But there are some articles on my blog that might be helpful in thinking about the question. jagadanandadas.blogspot.com/2010/11/charismatic-renewal-and.html
1:44:38
also the weird thing is how can ordinary person, if you think Bhaktivinode is, could possibly give Bhagavatam class, or even writing some Vaisnava literature, before got initiated?
And also siddha form of Bhaktivinoda is Kamala manjari, if that prabhu really sure or pushing the importance of Vipin Bihari as diksa guru, can he tell atleast the name or detail of siddha svarup of him?
How can someone putting leg above the head of eternal associate of Krsna?
Lalita Prasad may have been the son of Srila Bhaktivinode but he wasn’t his only disciple. Many of the early followers of Srila Bhaktisiddhanta where actually initiated by Bhaktivinode and knew him well, most notably Bhakti Pradip Tirtha Goswami. Bhakti Prajana Keshava Goswami was also well known to Srila Gaura Kishore Das Babaji. The problem is their accounts of history don’t tally up with Lalita Prasads. That means a lot of what Lalita Prasad had to say about his father wasn’t always taken in high regard, because it didn’t correspond with the accounts of people who knew Bhaktivinode well.
I think there’s a disregard for the broader vision of Bhaktivinode & Bhaktisiddhanta from Lalita Prasad who was more in favour of the Goswami linages of the Gaudiyas. They wanted a global mission not a local Bengali tradition that didn’t work well outside of India.
I follow the Goswami tradition and I am from the US and of European descent. Many of us non Indians follow the traditional ways
@@jackbootshamangaming4541 That’s fare enough but If it wasn’t for Bhaktisiddhanta & Prabhupada’s efforts in taking that to the west you’d know nothing about Gaudiya vaishnaism. As for the ‘traditional ways’, I’ve traveled extensively through Bengal, Orissa and I know Vrindavan well, the only thing that stands out as fundamentally different between the Goswami families and Gaudiya math is Siddha Praneli and perhaps Gaudiya Sanyas, and not all Of the so called traditional parivaras are united in their opinion on that either.
@ओम् ब्राह्मण Shraddha ॐ श्रद्धा If you look for controversy in anything you’ll find it. You’ve stated lots of things in this post but they’ve been addressed competently so many times it’s just boring hearing about it now. I mean no offence to followers of these lines, but sometimes you’ve got to be sensible about these issues and say good luck if that’s your opinion and leave it at that.
Can someone explain which is authentic unbroken one like the goswami parivaar Or iskcon and gaudiya math followers?
6:40 interesting comments around attitudes to learning Sanskrit in ISKCON
Bipin Bihari Goswami...any biography of him?
Part 2 - vote 🗳 here. ☑️
As long as it’s accurate, this is history we all deserve to know. We should be grateful that such a personality has had such a rich, deep and varied devotional journey in Gaudiya Vaisnavism. Pranams to you both.
If you want to get manjari bhava then you don't hear and chant with everyone... It is important to discriminate because each sampradaya has a different mood and different deity that they worship. So if you want to develop the mood of a Rupanuga (our line) you have to associate with Rupanugas. That is boliling the milk. Not just listening from anyone who speaks Bhagavatam for money or doesn't follow properly.
1:20:55 where the lineage confusion lies
Thanks that's why I was here😅😅
Srila Bhaktivedanta Narayana Gosvami Maharaja didn't mind devotees leaving Iskcon when je was banned from Iskcon, but before that we didn't want devotees to leave Iskcon. Also he is in the same line as Srila Prabhupada, so devotees who go to him are not actually leaving Iskcon. SBVNM is a pure devotee, that's the problem with learning, you learn some so called history and then disagree with pure devotees. You base your knowledge in the knowledge you gather with your mundane mind and senses and then you disrespect pure devotees who can actually see the reality beyound speculation
This 100% Narayan Maharaj was initiated sannyasi and mathura dham vasi probably when Jagatji was still in school. This is also the problem with modern scholars, they think they can go toe to toe with great devotee and living devotee like Narayan Maharaj.
I often notice the ones who only accept what they're line says and don't think independently, don't actually have so much realization.
@@33333Tarun you know I have nothing against independent thought, but you need to come from a place of respect, not talking about Narayan Maharaj like you have some qualification to judge someone who was practicing Vaishnavism while you are in diapers. Even normal Hindu won’t do that what to speak of Vaishnava. Get real
@@dontwannabefound Did i say anything about NM? I was talking about members of institutions who have to stay in line and not think outside the box
sadhaks want a guru like Ramakrishna who will touch them and awaken . but the sadhaks fail to realize they maynot be as spiritually ripe as Vivekananda
@SanchitArora-vu5swYes! What is wrong in that 🙄
@SanchitArora-vu5sw On what context did you say that? Vivekananda Swamiji had urge for sex???? what basis is there for such a claim!! Also kindly clarify how you say that he had no control on his tounge!!
Finish the sandarbhas already Jagadananda Prabhu! 😂
Hoje em dia esse Jagadananda está pedindo perdão para os gaudiya vaisnavas, por suas ofensas. Difícil vai ser obter o perdão dos maha bhagavatas que deixaram esse mundo há tanto tempo antes mesmo de ele nascer. Maha bhagavata esses, que esse homem tem suscitado questionamentos e dúvidas nas mentes de devotos pouco preparados durante muitos anos. No mínimo deveria se tocar de que não conheceria nem uma gota de cultura védica e ainda seria um meleccha, se não fosse o esfoço e estratégias planejadas por Srila Bhaktissidhanta Saraswati Thakur e Swami Maharaja Prabhupada. Ele é a prova de como o orgulho de se achar um erudito, pode acabar com a própria vida espiritual.
I agree with Srila Bhakti Rakshak Sridhar Gosvami Maharaja
a nice character who in the past had many skeletons of abused children in the closet ... surely he is a good witness and an active participant in the world of Vaisnava and Gaudiya Math, and, it will be interesting to hear him still tell his experiences and studies
Why is he diverting a lot from the main topic and taking the discussion stray again and again ?
Bipin was taught by Kanu Priya who himself did not accept that non pure brahmin can receive initiation
This doesn't make sense. Who are you talking about?? Srila Bipin Bihari Goswami lived prior to Prabhupad Sri Kanupriya Goswami if that is the same "Kanu Priya" you're speaking of.
Haribol Radhacaran das, where is the evidence for this? Bipin Bihari Goswami's date are 1850-1919. Kanupriya Goswami was active after that.
Hare Krsna.
I understand that the intention of this interview is to basically know insights of other persons as well and not to downplay anybody. In any case it's a well known fact that Jagadananda Das is a very questionable personality in terms of his actions and believes and what he is propagating :-
1. BSST was not initiated by Gaur Kishore Das Babaji hence our Parampara line is not Bonafide
2. Gauranga Nagara (one of the deviated Apa Sampradaya) is Bonafide.
3. Gaudiya Vaiṣṇavas are not in the lineage of Madhva Sampradaya
4. Daivi Varnashram is Wrong
And several others. Not to forgot, Jagadananda Das published an entire PDF which speaks totally attacking Blaspheming Srila BSST to the extent calling him even a demon incarnation etc.
People like these maybe living a Satvik life, maybe doing Some Bhajan but such people are severely against our line, who have been constantly attacking our line.
It is a fact that Jagadananda Das GAVE UP srila Prabhupada and took re initiation from Lalita Prasad Thakur another very controversial personality. Basically he rejected our line and took Initiation from someone Who was not very favourable to our line.
I personally do not think it's necessary to conduct any 2nd part with him (only a suggestion) because it's merely unnecessary waste of time.
Again this is not to Demonise anybody but it's just that somebody who has been so much attacking to our line cannot be accepted with the "Saragrahi Card" in every context
Thank you do much for bringing this to light Prabhu. HARE KRISHNA
Good job not demonizing anyone.
It's a good excuse to brush some unbonafide, apa-sampradaya ideas inbeded in GM/ISCON under the carpet.
@@krzysztof-108 I have mentioned 4 points of which 3 were the opinions of Srila Bhaktivinod Thakur clearly in his books. And the 1st Point again happened during his Presence.
So I don't understand what u mean by APA Sampradaya, unless Jagadananda Das believed his own Param Guru was an Unbonafide Apa Sampradaya personality.
@@madhavsinghsodhi1614 1st point is a bitter truth (announced by Anantavasudev - the head of GM after BSST - having enough proofs of it) and this was a real reason for the split in Gaudia Math.
It pains my heart to hear devotees say Bhaktivinoda thakura was a bengali. It is like saying Krishna was Indian.... They are Krishna's eternal associates, Bhaktivinoda thakura is Kamala Manjari and she is serving the divine couple in tbe eternal Goloka Vrindavan.
It is like saying "I feel pain Krishna beeing depicted as a cowherd boy and not as a Supreme Personality of Godhead"
I expected so much more but instead just got the narrow vision of his opinion. So disappointed. Br Sridhar maharaja and Bhaktivedanta Narayana Maharaja did want you to leave your Guru ? How Odd of them! Every other thing Jagananda prabhu said is either incorrect or just a really bad way to reconcile things, to understand the dealings of vaisnavas.
Madhavendra Puri is accepted as the foundation of Gaudiya Vaishnavism but his Guru is not accepted . Because we don't find the symptoms of Vrindavan Love in the Gurus prior to Madhavendra Puri. This is the Dhara or the current . Similar to Rupanuga Dhara
The essential difference between Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Saraswati Thakur and Lalita Prasad Thakur was written in a Gaudiya Vaishnava Magazine . Perhaps the Harmonist . The title of the article was : Baba Or Radha The essential point of the article was to emphasize that Srila Bhaktisiidhanta Saraswati saw Bhakti Vinode Thakur as a Agent of Sri Radha whereas Lalita Prasad's vision of Bhaktivinode Thakur was not as a Agent of Sri Radha but of Father " Baba"
He did see him as a servant of Radha though. He gives his Siddha pranali
The sahajiyas are sahajiyas, not tradicional Vaisnavas, come on why are you misguiding people. They don't follow any bonafide line accepted by sastra
no doubt your intention is to enrich and encourage many Vaisnavas, however I think you MUST invite someone to speak on behalf of our Acaryas, such as someone from Gaudiya Math or Iskcon who can explain the other side of the coin about our disciplic succession and the controversies around Srila Bhaktisiddhanta. I seriously consider that this type of interview is not favorable for the general public, for devotees who are struggling to get 16 rounds and follow the principles and who rarely sit down to read sastra daily. No offense to Jagadananda prabhu, I do not believe that this interview will increase the devotion of many devotees, but rather it will cause those neophyte devotees to doubt and lose faith. Please take into account my humble observation.
Thanks for your comment. Let me know who you suggest. I would suggest someone with a good grasp of english.
Agree
16 rounds? Better 1 round from the heart than 1000 mechanical
@@NamarasaPodcast Srila Bhakti Nandan Swami Maharaj knows also very deeply Gaudiya Math History.
Actually, Jagadananda barely scratched the surface of the diksa siksa issue. Most people in ISKCON/Gaudia Math (IGM) only know the fabricated stories that IGM leaders devised to bolster their own ideas and ranks. Sadly Jagat-ji talked around a lot of important history.
There's no proper discriminatiom between liberated souls and conditioned souls in this podcast. The whole point in the source of knowledge for us is that it should come from a liberated soul. You liked Srila BV Narayana Gosvami Maharaja but you never understood who he is. Because you then disregard his words.
This is what appears to happen when we interpret a scholar’s stories with something other than a simple historical mood, don’t you think? He wasn’t invited on the podcast for his realizations. He’s being engaged to provide historical recollections, as well as additional context about controversies with some autobiography thrown in.
@@anandagopalpardue270 And besides he has a hell of a lot more realizations than these whiners.
an expert in fantasy, forged books, fake scriptures and a false religion
There's no benefit in people just speaking about their opinions if they are against sastra and pure Vaisnavas. Come on, Srila Sridhar Maharaja was not happy with him and he didn't care. That shows no respect and no understanding or realization about who he is. A Pure Vaisnava like Srila Sridhar Maharaja is not happy with you and you just continue with your nonsense.... Why this kind of podcasts?
Interview with someone who worked together with someone who rejects Prabhupada... In the name of being broad minded now we're hearing from these persons... We should not give up proper discrimination in the name of being ver open and liberal.
The Jiva institute is not favourable to our sampradaya. They don't accept our line
Not quiet sure about this.
Why do you say that?
What do you mean by your sampradaay? Are you people out of Gaudiya??
Y u call apasampraday anti iskcon speakers