PASTEURIZED FUEL PELLET TEK, Simple Low-Tech Method for Making Sawdust Blocks for Mushroom Growing
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- Опубліковано 31 бер 2021
- Step by Step detailed instructions explaining this awesome low-tech pasteurization method for making perfect sawdust blocks from wood pellet fuel. This method can be used for expanding spawn or making fruiting blocks for any wood loving mushrooms. In this video, we use this method to expand some store-bought Almond Agaricus spawn on the cheap to kick off a new outdoor grow experiment.
You can use this same method to make spawn or fruiting blocks. For fruiting blocks my standard recipe by weight is:
- 2 lbs. dry hardwood fuel pellets
- 2 lbs. 13 oz. water (at or near boiling for pasteurization)
- Pasteurize for 60 to 90 minutes, then cool to room temp
- Add 1 lb. of spawn and mix.
- Finished block is just under 6 lbs
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If you are looking to make fruiting blocks instead of expanding spawn, my standard fruiting block recipe is:
2 lbs. Fuel Pellets
2 lbs. 13 oz. Water (at or near boiling for pasteurization)
1 to 1.5 lbs. Spawn
This yields a finished fruiting block around 6 lbs. You may have to adjust your water slightly to compensate for varying moisture content in your fuel pellets. I'm using model 3T filter patch bags from Unicorn Bags.
Ever used spent fruiting blocks to start a new batch of blocks with this process?
Hey I have a question???????? Can you use soy bean meal for this recipe??? Thanks man. Love your videos.
@@esrcornwell No I've never tried that. Cool idea though.
@@craigartice3156 No, the only supplement I've used successfully is wheat bran up to 10%
i am in the process of trying my first run right now, boiling the water as I write this.
I am doing 2 pounds of BBQ smoker grade Oak wood pellets
2 lbs 12 oz of filtered water, I can't see using water with chloramine in it.
I added 1 teaspoon of Diamond K Gypsum solution grade to the whole pot of water and I am doing enough to make 5 bags
1 teaspoon of Soy Peptone , same as Gypsum, 1 tsp total for whole 5 bags worth of water, so just a small amount, enough just for a little kick.
stirred both into the water until completely dissolved then boiled to a full 212 degrees for several minutes.
in a Unicorn 14A bags
I have searched and searched UA-cam just to find this video. Well done, 100% what I need. This is absolutely perfect. Thank you
Glad you found me and the video was helpful 👍
@@RenegadeMushrooms bro you should complain to youtube this is some new level BS of algorithm, searched for two days that's 48 hours using bots to get to this video, i am saving it downloading it, bookmarking it, subscribing it.
He is great at what he does.
I just added mushrooms to my garden and I've roped my husband into it. (He got sucked in when he saw all the science happening) 😂 The video is great, BUT the comment section is where X marks the spot. Honestly, thank you EVERYONE who asked questions I didn't even know I had. With all of the back and forth conversation, the knowledge being shared is priceless. I appreciate all of you. ❤❤❤❤
Great video! Exactly what I was looking for. Can't wait to watch more of your videos. Subscribed!
Excellent video. Easy to follow clear and intelligently put together
I love your videos! I watch others but I always come back to yours! You make them easy to understand, you don't go "on and on" and I tried your methods and they work!!! Thank you so much!
Used this method to make reishi blocks today. Very easy.
great lesson, thank you for taking the time to do this video... helped me a lot,
Wow! This is one of the best videos! I’m amateur and had lots of questions but here all is answered ! 🙏
Thank you for the kind words, and for watching 👍
Think I'm going to enjoy your videos. You're "real". Looking forward to it.
Thank you! It’s very helpful
Wow this is the only video Ive found like this. Thank you so much my God... Life saver
Great video and informative,one of the few that replies to comments
i love your videos! Keep doing this!
You’re a great teacher. Thanks for taking the time with all this. I’m going to try sneaking some bran in the back door on both some pasteurized pellet bags and with some oat grain spawn tomorrow. I appreciate you brother.
Thank you for the kind words, means a lot to me 😁 Best of luck on your grow.
For metric heads, 2lbs hwfp to 2lb 13oz water, is 32 oz to 45oz which 1 :1.4 ratio
Really glad you posted this video, I was looking for this ratio everywhere and all I got was squeeze it until you see a drop of water, thank you Mr. Renegade.
Excellent video. I'm about to start some Blue Oyster Mushroom in my Boomer Box. I have a lot of cherry shavings from lathe turning that I'm going to use.
Cool, shavings have worked pretty well for me. Good luck on your grow 👊
Ok I've did this method today and I definitely went a little bit dry. I will keep you posted on what happens.
I like real. Your one cool dude. Thanks
I use your tek to save time and money eliminating the need of pressure cooker, many thanks for this idea. What I did was, I bought a keetle big enough to boil 6cups of water, I start the boiling process on my stove then I work on my recipe mix one bag at a time. Once the mix is ready the keetle starts whistling about 5min -7min and it is boiling. The keetle makes pouring the boiling water directly into the bag a little easier. then I repeat the process.
Awesome, I'm glad this process is working well for you 😁
For Masters mix I'll use a pressure cooker. For just hardwood pellets, I use 10 cups of pellets and expand them with 2.8 liters of 3% Hydrogen peroxide and inoculate from there. The pellets come out nice and fluffy and fairly sterile. All of my spray bottles use peroxide. It breaks down into pure water and oxygen. Mushrooms love peroxide! I recently took several colonized Shiitake and Black Pearl king oyster bags and put them in fruiting tubs, poured the wood pellets on top and then dumped the peroxide in coating everything and put the lid on. One culture I crushed into the pellets upon expansion and it and the rest are all growing like crazy. I'm hoping to get fruit bodies from the blocks while they colonize the new substrate. worst case is they fully colonize the new stuff before I get any mushrooms.
Good stuff. I haven't played much with peroxide myself, but it sounds like it works great. That tub idea with the spent blocks is a great experiment 👍
Hey, greetings from Greece!! Great video and well explained, thank you🙏! Go na try it tomorrow with Shiitake spawn and some blue oysters i got ready to send!! Keep it up brother! Thanks🙏
Awesome, let me know how it goes for you 👍
Hey! Awesome worked absolutely perfect, i already used the method with 2 cups wheat bran and until now no contam 😁😁😁😁@@RenegadeMushrooms
Suggestion. Triple fold the bag and paper clip after adding the hot water instead of sealing. I add 1/4 cup bran to the mix. If you're worried about leaks just seal twice at that time.
Never tried the clip, but it makes sense. Good idea 👍 I do add bran at times depending on the species, I have a video on that topic on my channel.
Nice,there's not much info on A blazei,so thanks!
Great video, thanks so much for sharing your experience! I thought Agaricus Blazei was only a compost mushroom, but it seems to grow well on sawdust too, then. I hope I can find some spawn (I'm in France).
They are unique in that they can be grown on compost or sawdust. Paul Stamets shows some nice examples of them growin on sawdust in his cultivation books.
@@RenegadeMushrooms Great! But the spawn you’re using looks like compost spawn or something like that, right (judging by the dark color)? Is it possible to get back to a liquid culture from that stage? Probably better to create one from a piece of the mushrooms when you get them, I guess.
@@MathieuGoldstein Yes, I think with morels you need a very fresh culture to have success. I attempted to clone a local specimen this year with limited success. I'm getting better with agar, so I will definitely try to clone some others this coming spring.
@@RenegadeMushrooms awesome, thanks a lot!
@@MathieuGoldsteinthe dark colour should be the spawn made with sawdust. He says in a part of the video.
Thank you so much for this information. I am really enjoying watching your videos and learning how to keep things simple. Could regular hardwood sawdust be used instead of the pellets?
I've never tried it, but I'm guessing you might risk running into contamination. The pellets go through a high heat and pressure extrusion process that renders them relatively clean and contam free. Pellets that are sold for pellet style smoker style grills also work very well.
@@RenegadeMushrooms Thanks so much for your reply. I think I will just go ahead and buy the pellets. Your method seems so easy and simple. Thank you again for the great content of your videos and sharing your knowledge with us!
I'm particularly impressed with your videos. Thanks for your efforts! I've read that some fuel pellets use binders.... "Examples of possible bonding agents for wood pellets include starch, molasses, natural paraffin, plant oil, lignin sulfate and synthetic agents". Whereas others use none. Are you concerned with binders or do you use 100% binder free pellets?
Mine are binder free, but I would be very leery of anything with synthetic binders. Natural binders probably wouldn't have too much of an effect. Natural hardwood pellets are easy to find in my area, but I know that's not always the case in other parts of the world. Thank you for the kind words, comments, and for watching.
I could see a molasses binder doing well by the mushrooms... probably make the mycelium lose its SHIT, and grow THICK!
I’m learning how to grow mushrooms and I love these videos. I have a question, I have a growing tent setup for fruiting chamber in my garage and how do I keep the temperature in my growing tent? Any ideas would be much appreciated.
It's very problematic to try to control temperature inside a small tent. The best thing is to control the temperature in the room the tent is located and then grow species that do well in that temperature range. It is best to have your tent setup in a room that us well insulated so that it's easier to control the temperature. After that, it's as simple as installing the necessary heating and cooling units or just going with what mother nature gives you for ambient conditions.
Woow keren bos.
Your example explains how to expand your spawn, which is wonderful and I plan to try this. So after you have extended your spawn and get this first step done. How much fuel pellets do you use when making say 5 or 10 pound fruiting blocks? Take care...
For fruiting blocks, start with 2 lbs. of dry pellets and a pinch of gypsum, add equal displacement as your 2 lbs. dry pellets of boiling water to pasteurize as shown in the video. I recommend using grain spawn for fruiting blocks once they are cooled as grain gives a nice nitrogen boost. I typically go 1 to 1.5 lbs. of grain spawn for each block.
I’m using your method with golden and blue oyster currently and appreciate you putting this information out there! I’m curious on how long it takes from the time you inoculate with grain to fruit? My garage is currently around 74 degrees, what’s optimal temps for fruiting these? I’ve got ac in the garage but if I can get buy without cranking it down that would be ideal
Awesome, I hope your grow goes well. Goldens like it warm, so 74 F is great for them. With blues, it depends on the strain. There are warm and cool blue strains. Usually with blues, I wait until the blocks are nice and solid white. Then I put the bag into the refrigerator for 24 to 48 hours, then I tape the top back and cut my slits. Blues usually like a cold shock, but don't do it to your goldens, they will go on their own. I show my blue oyster fruiting method in this video:
ua-cam.com/video/uyEZLDJ15UE/v-deo.html
I found u can you 2 to 5 gallon freezer zip lock bags and add polyfil for a fae and there only about .40 cents to make
omg thank you mate.. i wanna grow mushrooms for me and my friends.. this video is awsome. i dident like the autoclave/preasure cooker style.. i was hopping for this.. have you thaught of a lime bath? someones low tech video suggested a water lime bath?
Lime pasteurization works, but I prefer not using chemicals unless necessary. My in-bag hot water method is easier and more effective.
@@RenegadeMushrooms ok awsome thats what i was thinking.. i love your methad..
honestly i hate the waste of the plastic bags so im trying to figure out a plastic tub version with a stick on filter that when its fruiting time i can take the lid off and put it in fruiting chamber
then i can reuse the bins and less bag waste
When using wheat grain to the pasteurized HWFP aren’t you pressure cooking the grain first? Thanks for all your support!
Yes, I pressure cook my wheat berries for 90 minutes at 15 psi. I have a video on that as well.
I just boiled the pellets in a pot... bad idea ;D that stuff expands like popcorn^^
Yeah, never tried that but I can picture what happened 😅
Great videos. Thank you for making and sharing. Do you use grain spawn or sawdust spawn?
For fruiting blocks I always use grain spawn, but if you are just looking to expand sawdust for outdoor inoculations, this method works well for that too.
Thanks my good man. I have only tried growing gourmet mushrooms (oysters) once and it was with grain spawn, but not with fuel pellets so I was curious which spawn might work better with the fuel pellets. It seems to be easier to control how many bags you want to grow with the fuel pellets, which is a plus depending on the size of you area you have to use. Thanks again. @@RenegadeMushrooms
This process looks much cleaner and easier than how I was doing it. So you didn't add any other ingredients other than gypsum? Thx
Yeah, just gypsum in this video. You can also add 1 cup of wheat bran if you wish for a little nutrient boost for fruiting blocks.
Great Video; hoping yr still answering comments on the thread. Can I just clarify - will this work with a transfer of wine cap grain spawn, intending to ultimately transfer to a wood chip/straw outdoor bed.
And similarly - good for a lions mane fruiting block?
Finally. I see you comment perhaps 5% 10% bran as an additive elsewhere - but presumably extra nutes increase chance of contam.
Thanks in advance….
Yeah I'm still here 👊 This works for spawn expansion or fruiting blocks, I just adjust the recipe a bit for fruiting blocks:
2 lbs. dry fuel pellets
2 lbs. 13 oz. boiling water
Once cooled, add 1 to 1.5 lbs. spawn.
Also, grain spawn works better for fruiting blocks because of the extra nutrients, but sawdust spawn will also work.
Adding bran will increase yields, but it does increase contam risk although I often add 5% and don't personally get any contamination. So far, I've successfully added up to 10% bran without any contams using this simple in-bag pasteurization method. That being said, I always recommend that beginners start out with no bran, then work their way up if they're successful with straight HWFP.
Thank you so much for all your videos.
Question, would there be any reason that I couldn't take these pasteurized bags and put an inoculation port on it and just inoculate with liquid culture instead of doing grain spawn?
You could but LC right to substrate just isn't as effective. That method results in much slower colonization, increased contam rates, and lower yields. IMO you are far better off using grain spawn.
@@RenegadeMushrooms Thank you for the info
Very well explained! Approximately how many liters is 1.5 pounds of pellets?
Not sure exactly for 1.5, but 2 lbs. of dry pellets is about 1 liter. I start with 1.5 lbs. often for spawn, but I go with 2 lbs. for fruiting blocks. My standard fruiting block recipe is:
2 lbs. dry pellets, 3 lbs. boiling water to pasteurize, 1.5 lbs. grain spawn for a 6.5 lb. finished block.
Great video! I will be using this method shortly. I thought you had to put the bags in a pressure cooker for 20 -30 minutes before i seen your method. Will this work for lions mane and turkey tail? I have some LM grain spawn thats taking a long time to spread its been 3 weeks and I can barely see mycelium growing. It is growing on a few agar plates I made. Should I go ahead and dump the agar into the grain jars to give it a boost? or just keep waiting untill the jars fully grow out? thanks. this is my first time doing this.
Yes, it works very well for Turkey Tail and Lions Mane. 2 lbs. dry fuel pellets, 3 lbs. water, 1.5 lbs. spawn is my general fruiting block recipe. You may have to adjust the water a little depending on your pellets but you'll love the results. Much easier than pressure cooking. That's weird that your Turkey Tail is so slow, usually it's very aggressive. There may be something wrong with your culture. I'm growing the "Wild" strain from Mycelium Emporium and it's doing very well.
@@RenegadeMushrooms it's not 🦃 tail, it's lions mane. It's still not showing better signs of expanding. So today I squirted more LC in 3 jars just to see what happens. I also dumped a agar plate into one jar. I sliced it up and dumped it all in including the agar. Will that ruin the grain jar?
I have another LC syringe from another supplier on the way and will start over. Also I'm going to do your Cordicep method, but Wal-Mart didn't have the sterilite 12qt containers. I bought 2 aluminum baking pans with see thru lids for 4 bucks. I will just tape the edges with packing tape. It should work. Any reason it wouldn't?.
Have you ever thought about becoming a affiliate with Amazon? I would have used your links to buy all the supplies for the Cordiceps mix to show support.
Thanks for your help.
@@ranjanty Sorry, I misread your comment. If you don't see any little white spots on your grain at this point, then something is wrong and it's time to start over with your Lions Mane. My favorite Hericium culture currently is the Hericium americanum from Everything Mushrooms, so you might want to try it at some point. I've never thought of becoming an affiliate, not sure how all that works or if it would be more of a pain than it's worth, but I'm not opposed to it.
hi renegade....greetings from jamaica.
is any kind of compost or manure in the entire process with agaricus blazei?
what is-in the grain spawn?
do you use any casing to cover before fruiting?
how much yield production they give you?
thank you so much for your videos, you are an inspiration, your liquid culture save my life!!!!
Greetings 😁👍 So far, I have only grown blazei outdoors in my vegetable gardens. I mix sawdust spawn in with compost/composted manure and then plant tomatoes and peppers. In the late summer/early fall, just as night time temps start to cool off a bit, the mushrooms appear. No casing layer needed outdoors. They can be grown indoors as well in sawdust or compost, but there a casing layer is preferable. My yields outdoors have been pretty small so far, but I'm going to try a new technique this year to see if I can get more.
@@RenegadeMushrooms Thank you
Hello, I have been follow your shows for a while. I work with 2 mushroom: giant garden and blue oyster, using lowest teck possible, and I love you pasteurized sawdust (pellet woods) techniques for oyster. Will it work for lion’s mane and chestnut mushroom too?. I consider purchase some liquid cultures for these two because according to online resources, they are among the 5 recommended DIY homegrown mushrooms (it says the easiest 5; but I would not say that). 😂. Thank you.
Yes, Hericium and Chestnuts will grow well with this method. I actually have a video showing how I do Hericium. I actually prefer Hericium americanum. They are delicious, and have many medicinal benefits:
ua-cam.com/video/N-Qpb3K8EL0/v-deo.html
@@RenegadeMushrooms Thank you! I am watching it on UA-cam now. I have placed order for the LC.
Has there been a study on the effects of light and colonization time that you have done or read regarding Turkey Tail?
I have been growing on and off for over 20 years, and when I started, I read the consensus was to incubate in the dark (for a species that grows on dung in nature), and I took this for gospel. That changed when I saw a video of someone who who didn't waste their time with incubating in the dark after spawning to a mono. It worked for them and cut down the risk of contamination during the colonization of the mono due to one less need of opening the tub to remove any blackout liners. I also tried spawning into a mono and not blacking out the surface with a liner and it worked without any difference in colonization time.
Since then I have come to question many things that I took for granted in this hobby, and I was wondering if you've tried experimenting with colonizing your Turkey Tail blocks in the dark vs indirect light, and seeing if it effects colonization time?
I generally colonize everything in indirect light, not complete darkness nowadays. For most species including Turkey Tail, I don't notice any difference in colonization. My only exception is Cordyceps militaris, for which the Cordyceps people smarter than me still advise total darkness.
@@RenegadeMushrooms Awesome. Thanks for the quick reply and the input. I always like getting other people's opinion who have gotten their hands dirty.
Keep making the bitchin' videos bro, they're helping a lot of people.
What are the size of the 4 holes you drilled on each side of the tote you use to pasteurize them in?
You don't need any holes for that particular application, but they are 1.5 - 2 inches. The holes are to manage moisture and airflow when I'm fruiting blocks in them.
Just chiming in to add another data point: I tried this technique and unfortunately it didn't work too well for me - most of my bags ended up contaminated. Not saying this technique doesn't work - just that it didn't work with my particular set of variables. It's important to mention that I did add a 1/4 cup wheat bran to this recipe, which I know increased the risk of contamination. Another factor in the success/failure of my experiment was the strain I was using: The faster growing strain I tried it with (blue oyster) seemed to be able to outpace any contaminants, but the slower growing strains got overtaken with contamination. Just something to keep in mind for others giving this a try. Maybe try it out with your stronger/faster growing strains first.
Love your content, @RenegadeMushrooms, despite my lack of success with this experiment. Keep up the great work!
Something else has to be up, even with the addition of the wheat bran, there's no way you should be having oysters contaminating on you. I have friends doing this method, even without a flowhood, with crazy high success rates. How much spawn did you add and what type of pellets were you using?
@@RenegadeMushrooms I added a quart jar of spawn to each 5lb fruiting block, so I don't think the quantity of spawn was an issue. The pellets I used were Pit Boss brand hardwood pellets, which has worked fine for me in pressure cooker-sterilized fruiting blocks.
The other thing that may have been a factor was that the spawn I used wasn't the "freshest" - it had been sitting around for a few months. But again, the other jars of grain spawn from that same batch worked fine when I used it in sterilized fruiting blocks.
I definitely will give this technique another shot and report back! Pasteurizing would save so much time and effort, so I really want it to work out. Thanks for your response! I'm new to this hobby and have a lot to learn, so I really appreciate folks like you taking time to educate us rookies.
@@KatieOutside Something still doesn't seem right. I would try it without the wheat bran with a couple blocks and see if you have the same issues. It could be your bran. If you still get contaminated with no bran, something's up and the contams have to be coming in from somewhere else. I've had unsupplemented blocks take a month to colonize fully and still not contaminate. Let me know how it works out for you 👍
@@RenegadeMushrooms Got an update for you, and it's good news! I made another attempt, and this time it seems to be going much better. None of my six pasteurized bags ended up contaminated, and they're just starting to fruit now. They don't seem to be quite as densely colonized as my sterilized bags, and it remains to be seen how yields will turn out, but so far so good!
The variables that differed from my first semi-failed experiment with pasteurization were:
1) Different HWFP - Pit Boss brand last time, Tractor Supply brand this time.
2) Different wheat bran - I think I used Bob's Red Mill last time, this time it was the generic bulk brand from Natural Grocers.
3) Last time, I used grain spawn that had been sitting around for months; this time I used freshly colonized grain spawn.
So one or a combination of the above was possibly to blame for my failure last time. I'm stoked that this method seems to be working. Thanks again for all you do!
@@KatieOutside Awesome, thank you for the update 👍 I was wondering how you were making out.
Hey man I’ve been using your hot water pasteurization tech and have had great success. Thank you for sharing all your knowledge.
I have a 5 lb shitake bag I expanded about 4 weeks ago. The bag was doing great then out of no where I found one spot of green mold. Was very surprised because the mycelium seemed to be doing great. Question for you is, can I use it? I was planning to use it for logs.
It would probably be better to make another bag, but if you have no other options you could try it. The problem is that once you see green, there are trich spores everywhere in that bag.
Thanks for the quick response. I just find it crazy that after 4-5 weeks mold popped up. I thought I was good.
@@stefansochaczewski-yg3tz It's rare for me with pasteurization, but it can happen.
Can one use this recipe in a 5 gallon bucket? I want to show my 9 year old nephew how to "do science" this summer, and get his little behind outside for once, and the 5 gallon bucket tek seems to be a good option. I'm gonna show him the Whole thing, from LC, to expanding the LC, to grain spawn, to the bucket. Then maybe cross over into some Home Ec sh*t when I show him how tasty a pink oyster can be!
I haven't tried it in a bucket yet myself, but I think it would work better if you did 50/50 aspen shavings and fuel pellets. If you're doing pinks, another good option would be a straw bucket as pinks do very well on straw. I just posted a video on that subject:
ua-cam.com/video/a0cSq8Xev64/v-deo.html
Great help with the modified milk jug. Trying first oyster blocks today
Awesome, hope your grow goes well.
@@RenegadeMushrooms Thank you. What is the temp range for colonization and for fruiting of blue oysters?
@@thetobaccoguy1751 Really depends on the strain, there are warm and cold blue strains. The culture provider should be able to give you specific parameters. For my strain (Bratislavian Blue) I colonize and fruit them at 65 F
@RenegadeMushrooms I made 9 blocks from 4 lbs of substrate. They are almost completely colonized and I have found zero contamination. Thank you so much for the info!
Do you have a list of mushrooms that you can use this pasturization method verses having to use sterilized blocks?
Every species that eats wood will work with this method that I've tried except for Enoki (Flammulina velutipes). They are a little trickier, but I am planning a future video on how to grow them. Reishi, Turkey Tail, Shiitake, Oyster, Lions Mane, Pioppino, etc. all grow well with this method.
@@RenegadeMushrooms Thanks.
@@RenegadeMushrooms I see ME also sells Morel Mushroom syringes. I'm going to ask you the same question I hear probably at least 50 times when selling at my local farmers market, but here goes. Have you ever successfully grown Morel Mushrooms using your pasteurization method. If so, can you recommend where I can get the spawn. Lastly, have you ever done this for Porchini mushrooms as well? Sorry, these are questions that plague me....
@@RenegadeMushrooms I would love to get away from sterilization if I could.
Would this also work with buckets if you placed the “hole bucket” inside a solid bucket or does this just work for bags?
I've never tried it in buckets, but I'm thinking it would work as long as everything was clean. Contam risk might be slightly higher.
Will they method work with a masters mix or does the higher nutrient dense soy hulls need a steam bath pasturation?
I actually tried this method with MM, here's the video:
ua-cam.com/video/3IEGc6o52kM/v-deo.html
I plan on trying a prolonged super pasteurization method soon.
Hey Renegade, I’m sure you’ve been asked this many times, but I didn’t see it anywhere. My question is, can you use hardwood pellets for BBQ’s or does it need to be strictly hardwood fuel pellets?
Thanks for the great videos too!
BBQ pellets work great, I prefer oak or maple if you can find them.
Is it vital to leave airspace in the bag after inoculation? Or can you seal the bag with minimal airspace in bag?
It's not vital for the survival of the mycelium in the bag, but it makes shaking and handling much easier.
Love your channel. Just a quick question, do you shake the bags you’ve made after they’re half colonized.
I always shake my grain jars at 1/3 to 1/2 colonization, but usually it's not necessary with bags. There are a few species though, where I've found it beneficial to shake bags when making sawdust spawn. Those are Blewits, Winecaps, and Almond Agaricus. Those species tend to stall on you and are reinvigorated with a shake. That goes for straight pasteurized HWFP, which is what I'm always using. I actually made a video on this topic if you're interested:
ua-cam.com/video/Ye6ByKYxHd8/v-deo.htmlsi=JAjqc_NySR9V36ty
Thank you so much for the link. I checked it out. Do you have a link showing how you fruit the bags, do you slit the top for air exchange, do you block/tighten them up and make slits through the bag/blocks. Just starting growing mushrooms as a healthy hobby, set up a Martha tent for fruiting, so we’re just getting started. Thanks again for your videos, very easy to understand and follow.
@@tomlerro8461 Yes I have lots of videos. Fruiting strategy depends on what species you are growing, but here are some links:
Oyster:
ua-cam.com/video/uyEZLDJ15UE/v-deo.html
Hericium:
ua-cam.com/video/N-Qpb3K8EL0/v-deo.html
King Oyster:
ua-cam.com/video/Yx7ya92oQrQ/v-deo.html
Shiitake:
ua-cam.com/video/-FuxghLt_h4/v-deo.html
Maitake:
ua-cam.com/video/Bf1RQd3u09s/v-deo.html
Thanks again. We’re growing blue oyster mushrooms so the video was perfect. Your videos are so easy to watch and learn from. Thank you.
Will this work for lions mane? Hard for me to make more than one bag at a time in my little canner
Yes, works great:
ua-cam.com/video/N-Qpb3K8EL0/v-deo.html
I live in the Philippines and can only get softwood pellets, (used for pet bedding). I think it is pine or what they call "palochina".
If I supplement them with wheat bran and use this pasteurization process for fruit blocks will it work? I grow primarily varieties of oyster mushrooms.
I think it will work, but I would start with 5% wheat bran and see if you get any contamination. I've successfully added up to 10% bean with this process, but 5% is a good starting point I think.
When you use the 1.5 lb of hardwood pellets + 1 quart of water referred to in the video to expand the spawn, how many grow bags do you usually make from one bag of the expanded spawn?
If you want to make fruiting blocks for indoor growing, it's a little different (same process, little different recipe). The sawdust spawn expansion method I demonstrate in this video is typically used to make spawn for outdoor inoculations like woodchip/compost beds or logs.
For indoor fruiting blocks you are better off starting with grain spawn instead. It leads to faster colonization and higher yields. A 5 lb. bag of grain spawn can make 5 of these blocks and you can fruit them just like that. For fruiting blocks, use this recipe:
- 3T model grow bag
- Add 2 lbs. dry hardwood fuel pellets
- Add 2 lbs. 13 oz. water at or near boiling for pasteurization
- Add water, seal, store in a tote or cooler hot for 90 minutes
- Remove bags and let sit until cooled to room temp.
- Open bag, add 1 lb. grain spawn, reseal and shake well.
- Move to shelves to incubate.
Hope this makes sense.
didn't use the funnel, steamed myself.
second time, used a funnel, all good ^^.
Used a RUF type brikett with gypsum and some chalc,
will introduce reishi to it tomorrow.
Could be the end to sterilisation :D
Awesome, let me know how it works out.
been some time and did some experimenting:
RUF type works! but it needs more time for pasturization because its a thick briquet and it takes some time to soak up the water until the core.
using 3 700ml jars per RUF briquet (1kg each) with water ration of 1,25-1,4 (the higher the more metabolite)
i stopped adding gypsum, chalc and bran because it increased my contam rate bcs no flow hood
i grew reishis in Unicorn XLS bags, start to finish harvesteing up to 100g dry per bag in around 6months.
Got my own reishi-grow rack now :D
did PC some grain today, starting indoor mushroom growing season for this year!
watched lots of your videos, you are my favorite mushroom-youtuber :D
@@RenegadeMushrooms
@@duselwusel4569 That's really nice of you to say, thank you. I like that you are experimenting and it's awesome you are having success. Do you have a link to the briquettes you are using for substrate?
hello @@duselwusel4569 complete noobie here ! Could you please tell me your successful receipt using the briquet? since I've only got this
Is it 1 kg RUF to 1.4 l water & 2.1 l of spawn? this is what I got from your comm :P..
cheers
@@Claratzitz yes, had success with this.
I forgot to ask, once fuel pellet bag is colonized, can you use that to turn into more bags or should I stick with grain spawn bag?
I personally go grain to first generation pasteurized FP and done. But I have a friend who successfully spawned pasteurized FP blocks out to a second generation of pasteurized FP with Shiitake with very little contamination. I'm guessing you will have more success with the aggressive wood muncher species like Turkey Tail, Oyster, Reishi, etc with going to generation two. Also remember though, if you take it to G2, you will have less grain per block so in turn less Nitrogen. This isn't a big deal if using them for spawn, but it will hurt your yield if fruiting them.
Appreciate, the info🙏
I can't find gypsum easily where I live (or not in bulk quantities). Is there an alternative? Or can I attempt with without the gypsum?
Gypsum is optional, you'll be totally fine without it.
Howdy! Will these pasteurised blocks work for lionsmane, bears head, and shitake too?
Yes and I have video evidence 😁
ua-cam.com/video/-FuxghLt_h4/v-deo.html
ua-cam.com/video/N-Qpb3K8EL0/v-deo.html
Awesome!! Thanks so much!
In the video, you said that you usually use 2 pounds of pellets but didn't this time due to the spawn you bought. When using 2 pounds how much water do you use then?
Here's my standard fruiting block recipe:
- 2 lbs. hardwood fuel pellets
- 2 lbs. 13 oz. water at or near boiling for pasteurization
- Once cooled add 1 lb. of grain spawn and shake.
Do you add anything like wheat bran to fruiting blocks?
Yes, I do sometimes depending on the species. I actually have a video on that topic with a King Oyster grow:
ua-cam.com/video/Yx7ya92oQrQ/v-deo.html
Here's another:
ua-cam.com/video/ilj6Ffqf8SY/v-deo.html
Can I grow ghost fungus(pellet) on pasteurized woodchips instead of wood log? thanks for anyone taking time to answer, can't find any info in the web.
Yes, the method I show in this video will definitely work for ghost fungus, or any mushroom that grows on wood substrate.
Hey Renegade, just got done pasteurizing some HWFP’s and they are in a cooler for the 90 minutes. I may not have time to add the grain spawn today after it cools to room temp. Can I let them sit on a table or keep in the cooler until tomorrow and add the spawn then? Thanks for any input. Great work!
I would put them in the fridge until ready to inoculate. A rapid cool down actually increases the effectiveness of the pasteurization. If you don't have room in the fridge or someplace cool, room temp would be fine overnight.
@@RenegadeMushrooms thanks for the fast response!! I do have room there’s just LC and beer in there!! I will put in fridge and add the grains tomorrow. Should I let the blocks come up to room temperature before adding the grains? Thank you so much for the awesome info!
@@daveeatmon4718 Nah, no need to let them warm up, just send it.
Could you use a vacuum sealer instead of the impulse sealer?
Yes, that works, but you only want to use the "seal" function. You definitely don't want to actually suck the air out of the bag. You can also just tie the top of the bag with twine or a zip tie. That being said, if you think you are going to be doing a bunch of bags, a good adjustable impulse sealer is well worth the price.
@@RenegadeMushrooms Thank you
where do you store them until you are ready to use them or do you need to use them right away?
I typically use them the same day once they are cooled down, but you can store them in the fridge for a day or two with no issues. I've never stored them longer than a day or two.
@@RenegadeMushrooms thank you, can i find you on fb?
I've heard if u sterilized it in a PC it makes it more open to contamination, I really want to try this for lions mane and turkey tail.
I grow Lions Mane and Turkey Tail regularly using this method with hardwood fuel pellets. It works well.
Thanks brother ! I’m definitely trying this soon ! Awesome videos man !
Hi, I watched your video again. My question is, how would I use this method if I want to create fruiting blocks? Do I do it exactly the same way? I am used to creating a 10 pound block with 2 pounds hard wood pellets, 2 pounds of soy bean hulls, and 6 pounds of water. From there, I sterilize the blocks. Once sterilized and cooled down, I then add approximately 2/3 cups of bagged spawn to the blocks and then I seal & incubate them. I would say that 1 bag of North Spore spawn will probably inoculate around 35 of the 10 pound blocks. This is where I'm getting confused. In your example, you are using approximately 1 to 1-1/2 pounds of spawn per 5 pound bag that consists of 2 pounds of pellets with the water that was added. I'm not sure of exactly how much weight this is since your water is measured by volume. I know it is your intention to take 6 bags you just created and to add them to a mushroom bed outside. But I want to do is make fruiting blocks where they would eventually end up in a fruiting room Can you help me here understand what I would need to do to reach my desired outcome? If you would like, you can email to explain. My email is aprilycummings@gmail.com
My recipe for fruiting blocks, in your terms is as follows:
2 lbs. Dry Hardwood Fuel Pellets
2 lbs. 13 oz. Water, at or near boiling for pasteurization
1 to 1.5 lbs. Spawn
Yields a 6 lb. Finished Fruiting Block
Once you have the fruiting blocks do cut the tops off, to allow fruit to grow straight up for king oysters?
Nice eye brows.
Really 😂, thank you! My wife makes fun of me, she says I have no eyebrows. I can't wait to tell her 😁
Is it possible to use colonize spawn for new wheat grain instead of agar or liquid?
Yes, grain to grain transfers are a commonly used technique, but I wouldn't try it unless you have a flowhood.
Can you give me an idea how I can find clientele for cordyceps militaris??
Start a page on Etsy and sell it dried. If your prices are competitive you will sell it. It may take a while but buyers will find you. The market is pretty flooded with Cordyceps growers nowadays, not what it used to be. Emphasize "locally grown" "organic" etc.
Ok thank you I appreciate it ✌️
Some pellet suppliers use vegetable oil in their processing. Have you had any grow issues with the presence of oil in your mix?
I haven't personally. I'm mostly using the pellets made for bbq smokers now. They are a bit more expensive than the general hardwood, but I like knowing exactly what wood is in there.
Do you ever supplement with bran?
Nitrogen supplementation is risky with the pasteurization method. I just go heavy on the spawn, about 1 lb. of grain spawn per block when making production blocks. This ups your nitrogen without risking contamination.
@@RenegadeMushrooms awesome, I appreciate the feedback, I am just starting out and I will be doing grain spawn jars to pellet bags. I was worried about them running out of nutrients and stalling out. Thank you for the clarification!
Would this work with grain spawn? it looks like sawdust spawn you're using..
It works great with grain or sawdust spawn. I use both 👍
Are you using a 66qt. container to keep ‘em cozy?
I think those big ones are 128 qt., but any size is fine. Just keep the bags packed tightly.
@@RenegadeMushrooms thanks brostradamus
Hey there! I am an agriculturist living inside town and after successful experimenting with Oyster mushrooms in small blocks of used espresso coffee, thinking to scale up to your size! I was wondering how much of a total yield in kilograms (all the flushes together) do you take from one block?
Cheers from Greece
Depends a little on strain and supplementation level, but in general with oysters I would say around 1 kilogram per block over 3 flushes.
Thanks mate!!!! I will start my trials one of these days with fuel pellet-coffe mixture and I will send you feedback! If this experiment goes well I will try to experiment with button mushrooms as well!
Cheers!
Is there an alternative beside a vacume sealer to seal the bags?
I recommend getting an impulse sealer. But some people also just cinch the top closed using a string or a zip tie. That works fine too.
@@RenegadeMushrooms I just was trying to avoid the expense. I have spent a fair amount already first by buying dowels and innoculating logs. Did not have much success so far ( mostly bugs eat the mushrooms before I get to them), so I am trying out bags.
I have 3 jars each of Lions Mane and Turkey Tail culture to grain ready to go. Just hate spending even more money on something else, but I guess it can be used for other things too.
Thanks for all your good advise!
@@peakerelief6549 Both of those species perform well for me with the pasteurization method. Lions mane pin very quickly before the blocks even look fully colonized usually. When you see dense little white mushrooms forming under the plastic, use an exacto knife to cut x-shaped slits in 2 - 3 spots right over top of the dense white growth. Be gentle, but don't worry about slicing them a little, the primordia will quickly recover and grow out of your holes. When you cut the holes, you also need to fold back and tape down the top of your bag tightly to your block. This will keep them from top fruiting in the open air space inside your bag, and force them out the holes you made.
Although i plan on getting an impulse sealer, i've been using double zip ties for 1-2 years w/ no problems, except its hard to dislodge particles near the top of the bag. I place one zip tie then a second about 1/2" above placing the "cinch point" of each in a different position, i.e. not alligned.. great video, thanks.
Hey bud do you ever supplement your hard wood with any soy or wheat bran?
Supplementation is risky with pasteurization, so I go heavy on the spawn instead to boost the nitrogen content of the finished block. I think you could add a little bran and get away with it, but I haven't run those experiments yet.
@@RenegadeMushrooms awesome man makes sense. Appreciate ya!
Has anyone achieved successful flush with lions mane with pine softwood pellets ?
Try Hericium albeitis, they naturally grow on pine.
What's your grainspawn to bulk substrate rate by weight in percentage?
For pasteurized sub I go 1 lb. of grain spawn per block. Finished block is just under 6 lbs.
How many quarts is that pitcher? Looks too small to be a gallon?
It holds 2 quarts/2 liters
As an addition of nitrogen to the substrate, would it be possible to sterilise a jar of spent coffee grounds (or bran ofc) and add that to the pasteurised substrate when you inoculate with spawn?
Yes, I frequently add 5% wheat bran to my pasteurized blocks without seeing any increased risk of contamination. I have a video showing how I add it:
ua-cam.com/video/tRZLRxc5FAw/v-deo.html
@@RenegadeMushrooms lol yeah i saw that video come up next just after leaving the comment
What size is your impulse sealer? Looks like 12” but can’t tell for sure
12 inch 👍
@@RenegadeMushrooms Thanks broski
At what point in using this tek do I need to start worrying about senescence? I’ve heard that’s the biggest issue with propagating spawn and cultures but haven’t gotten a good idea of at what point we need to start worrying about it.
Depends on the species you are growing and your scale. Some species like Morels and Cordyceps senesce very quickly so culture expansion should be kept to a minimum for best results. Many of the commonly cultivated gourmet species like oyster, shiitake, hericium, etc. take a LOT of expansion before you see any senescence if you start with strong genetics. I've been propagating the same Reishi culture for 12 years now just doing occasional home grows.
possible to add too much gypsum?
That's a good question, I've always just done a pinch. It's pretty inert so I think you would have to put a ton of it in to screw it up.
Where did you get your lights from? Does yours plug into the wall?
Yes they do plug into a surge protector, just simple fluorescent banks from Lowes. 6500 K fluorescents.
@@RenegadeMushrooms Did you use distilled water for the boil or just tap?
@@dylski4294 Always just use tap water.
@@RenegadeMushrooms What are the things you use distilled for? LC?
@@dylski4294 Only LC and Cordyceps broth.
What is tge size if the bags that you use here?
Model 3T grow bags from Unicorn Bags
I’ve been doing this for a few runs and my bags colonize slowly and reluctantly along the bottom half. I don’t see any contam but it smells off. Do I need to put it in the oven on low for a few hours when I do this?
No, I doubt that is the problem, but I need a little more detail. Please let me know what what exactly you're using:
1. Spawn type and prep?
2. Straight fuel pellets or other additives?
3. What type of grow bags?
4. How are you sealing your grow bags?
5. Are you shaking them thoroughly to evenly distribute spawn after inoculation?
Those details will help me get to the bottom of what is causing your issue. If they smell off, they likely have bacteria contamination, but there are a lot of potential causes.
I thought I replied but maybe it got lost.
I use well colonized WBS and either Lion's Mane, Blue Oyster, or King Oyster, but the problem seems to be the same for all. It has been a few weeks since I made the bags but I'll tell you how I did it as best as I can. I place 4 full pint jars HWFP (filled to the brim) and 2 full pint jars SHP which works out to about 1950g (2:1 ratio because of different pellet sizes) in an XL 0.5 micron bag with an equal volume of boiling water roughly 2280g. Seal with a food vacuum sealer and confirm closure. Let bags rest as directed. Open and inoculate with 1 quart of grain spawn. Reseal (and confirm) then mix as well as I can. Then I remix after several days when I get a good growth of mycelium on top. I have some bags that are almost a month old with Blue Oyster or King Oysters that are still only about 1/2 colonized and a Lion's Mane this is almost a month old and still showing only slow growth. I'm wondering if I'm using too much water, TBH. I wish I remembered exactly how many pellets and water I used since that's obviously critical to that decision.
@@RenegadeMushrooms
@@marathonmedic1 Gotcha 👍 OK, a lot going on there, but nothing that can't be easily corrected. You likely have bacterial contamination as a result of using soy hull pellets in your mix. Soy hulls are a relatively nutrient rich additive that require more serious heat treatment than this simple quick pasteurization method. This method is intended to be used with only hardwood fuel pellets. You can add some low level supplements once you get the process down, but if you're just starting out, you want to use just HWFP. So, here's what I recommend for your next bags:
1. First of all, I would recommend buying some model 3T grow bags. They will only hold a 6 lb. finish block, but they are a little easier to handle for beginners and they also have .2 micron filter patches which I prefer for most species.
2. To a 3T grow bag, add 2 lbs. dry hardwood fuel pellets.
3. Then add 2 lbs. 13 oz. of boiling water, seal, place in a tote and let sit warm for 90 minutes.
4. Then allow the bags to cool to room temp, open and add 1 quart of grain spawn and reseal.
5. SHAKE WELL to evenly distribute the spawn and incubate.
I can pretty much guarantee this will work for you. Once you have some success doing this, you can move on to bigger and better things if you want. If you still want to use XLS bags, try this:
3 lbs. 8 oz. dry HWFP
4 lbs. 12 oz. boiling water
1.5 to 2 quarts of spawn
Maybe I missed this but, have you used LC or agar cultures instead of grain spawn? If so, what were the results with HWFP? I think I'll be switching to this instead of rye grain. Much much much easier. Thank you again.
In that video, I used spawn I purchased from North Spore to inoculate my HWFP blocks for an outdoor project. My standard process for fruiting blocks though is: LC to wheat grain to pasteurized HWFP at the rate of 1 lb. grain per HWFP block (2 lbs. dry HWFP). This will yield around a 6 lb. finished block. I'm using 3T bags from Unicorn.
Replied in main thread
Where do you get your wheat bran?
I don't use a ton of it so I just buy it at the grocery store in the baking aisle. It's available in much larger bags at agricultural feed stores.
How much water per lb. of of wood pellets? I'm going to be using the larger bags. Also, in the larger bags,to make a 10 lb. Block,how many lbs of hardwood pellets would I use,not counting the water? Thanks
It varies a little based on your wood pellets, but I use 2 lbs. dry HWFP to 2 lbs. 13 oz. water. You can just take your dry fuel pellet weight and multiply it by 1.375 to get your water weight. That will get you close, but you may need to tweak it.
@RenegadeMushrooms ok thanks!
How mm thick are your grow bags?
Not sure, but they are the standard 3T grow bags right from Unicorn Bags.
After using a fruiting block, would I be able to then use it as spawn for more batches? Would that work? I’m trying to figure out if I can get a year round indoor mushroom grow going without having to buy the growing kits more than once and without needing a pressure cooker or sterile lab. Just using the same mycelium to keep starting more and more batches in fresh substrate.
You would get a lot of contamination with that method. In general, spent fruiting blocks can be used as spawn for outdoor grows like logs, wood chip beds, etc., but not as spawn for more indoor grows. You could probably get away with using sawdust blocks to inoculate a pasteurized straw or woodchip bucket, but after that you'd be going back to fresh spawn. The mycelium expends a ton of energy in the fruiting cycle, so after a few flushes, the mycelium isn't as resilient. You can grow all the mushrooms you want without a PC or sterile lab using pasteurization methods, but you have to be willing to buy spawn. Buying spawn is very expensive and pretty soon you'll be saving for a PC and a flowhood if you want to stay in the game long term. You can get a PC for $130 and build a flowhood for $300 - $400 if you're handy.
@@RenegadeMushrooms good to know thanks for the detailed response 🙏
@@RenegadeMushrooms I think I might try the “PF Tek” method to start new batches maybe to start off. Really I just want to keep my stuff going through the winter until it can be planted outside, and not have to buy new spawn every time I want to start the cycle again. I’m thinking I could PF tek and get the spores to inoculate more through the winter until it can be grown outside. I’ve tried this method before years ago and had some success but not a huge harvest.
@@Howwerelivingfishing Cool, good luck. Let me know how it goes. I also subbed your fishing channel 👍 Good stuff.
@@RenegadeMushrooms appreciate it 🙏
Can you convert the recipe in grams and milliliters please? 1.5 pound is 680gr, 1 quarter is 946gr of water, 2 pounds are 907gr of pellets, but what about 13 ounces of water? Google says 369ml but it's not possible..they must be more than 946ml of the 1.5 pound recipe. Thank you!
2 lbs. 13 oz. = 1.28 kilograms
why not to use lime for pasteurization?
Just my preference, I prefer not to use and spend extra money on chemicals when it's not necessary. I know lime works well for a lot of people though.
Uh, during the production process wood pellets have been subjected to temperatures above 120 °C and as such are sterile when they enter the silo. my understanding is that you can just skip the pasteurisation here completely. Let me know though if that's incorrect...?
Wood pellets are far from sterile, drop one on a petri plate and see what happens. They are relatively "clean" though which makes them a great substrate material. You can get away with cold water hydration if you go straight pellets with no additives and spawn heavy. But with this method, I regularly add up to 10% bran and get away with it. That you can't do without some heat, at least not with success rates near 100%.
I am trying to understand the next step
You need to more specific and I can help, what don't you understand?
Can I use this process to innoculate with liquid culture?
For best success, you want to use your liquid culture to start grain spawn. I show how to do that in this video:
ua-cam.com/video/iWKnTKRwsU8/v-deo.html
Once your grain spawn is fully colonized with mycelium, you use that to inoculate your pasteurized hardwood fuel pellets bags.
@@RenegadeMushrooms I make my own spawn for non wood loving mushrooms so am down with that process. I have loads of bags upstairs so can start those off. Thanks so much!