I'm 28 and have been married to my husband for 2 years (been together for 6 years). I told him from the moment that our relationship became serious that children would be a deal breaker but happily we are on the same page. No plans for kids now or ever. :) I decided around high school in my mid-late teens that I didn't want to have children. It's difficult to proclaim you decision let alone stand behind it when everyone is undermining your choice not to have them with such phrases as, "Oh you'll change your mind", "Oh you're young, you have plenty of time", "Wait til you get older, you will regret it". It makes you wonder, will I regret not having kids? Am I really missing out? Much of society expects a person to go to school, get a job, get married, have kids. I wrestled with this because of society's (and my small town's) view being the expectation to have kids and if you don't then that must mean: you are a selfish person who will be lonely with no one to take care of you. It drives me crazy when people say such awful things that are actually much more selfish. People are proclaiming you are selfish when you do not want to reproduce. That never made sense to me. Isn't it more selfish to have children for retirement or to combat loneliness? If they're afraid of being lonely or that they need someone to take care of them when they're old then maybe they should be producing better retirement plans vs possible retirement child. There's never a guarantee that your needs will be met by your children (nor should that be asked of them) and if those are your reasons for having children (having a care taker and to have company) then you shouldn't be having any. If you do want to have a child then you give them everything you can and the best of everything. It's about them now, many parts about you are put aside. You're doing this to have someone to share your love, watch them grow, share traditions and want the best for them. It's not right to expect anything in return. That is not the reason you brought this child into this world and this is a burden that shouldn't be expected of your child. I for one, do not like children. I find them annoying, time consuming, dirty, loud, expensive, rude, greedy, exhausting, and sure, they're kids! That's normal! What do you expect? I don't want the responsibility or the commitment because I just know the pros do not outweigh the cons when it comes to me having a child. I don't want my body destroyed just so I can bring a mini-me into the world. I have enough anxiety issues as it is. I love my friends kids because I know them but only for short periods and I can decide when to come and go. I like my life. I like to spend my money, use my time and make plans based on myself and my husband. Not a kid. It's frustrating when people seem shocked or judge or ask why? First, how rude of you to ask! What if I can't have children? Thanks a lot for pointing that out. Secondly, what's it matter to you? Are you going to raise it? The annoyance and ignorance just continues. Children give your life meaning! No, children give YOUR life meaning. Why don't you want children? Um, why DO you want children? You don't know love til you have a child! I'm fine with that. I have the love of my husband, my friends, my parents, my furbabies and many others in my life to make me feel love and be loved. You'll want kids when you find the right man! Excuse me? My husband makes me plenty happy and vice versa, I don't need children to validate this. You're being selfish and you will regret it one day! Not likely. Women are meant to be mothers, the world depends on it! There are 7 billion people on the planet, estimated 9 billion by the end of my generation. Mine won't be noticed, let alone missed. This day and age sure seems pretty scary to bring someone you love into the midst of it. When asked "when or if" my husband and I are having children we simply say no. The backlash and the shock was hard to deal with but I'm working in a much bigger city where the majority of my coworkers seem to be more on my wave of thinking. I have the added benefit of having a husband who shares my ideals and my parents are not the type to be hounding for grandchildren. They think it is a marvelous decision and they agree that not having children can lead to a life that can be just as rewarding. I lead a very happy and fulfilled life with my furbabies and my husband (we have 6 kitties and a greyhound), I am much more comfortable and confident in proclaiming my decision than I did in my early 20's. It is really no one's business and they should not question how I wish to lead my life. I choose to be child-free and I relish it.
megan ivy I'm childless though not by choice but by infertility. Oh wait, by choice too. Married for 11 years. Although I do love kids and like being an aunt, I'm so happy I don't have any of my own. My husband feels the same way.
BassPlayerSusan Glad to hear it :) I've been with my husband almost 4 years and I don't know if we are or are not able to have kids but we're happy not having them.
+megan ivy i have been living with my GF for 12 years, no children, we both are kind of adrenaline junkies so having a child would be devastating to both of us, i rather wake up early in the morning and worry about my next adventure than to worry about a child's needs.
BassPlayerSusan I know this is late but, if I may say so, that combination seems very lucky, unless your infertility is caused by medical issues that trouble you in other ways, that is.
I knew at 17, when a few people I knew back then were childfree the choice was a no brainer. Now at 53, life is great. If you don't want kids, sterilization is the ONLY way to go.
***** I had it done in the early 80"s. One doctor gave me crap about it. A clinic would do it as well as planned parenthood. I went with a urologist a family member went to. Cost was 350 dollars back then. Because I was single it was out of pocket. Still a bargain!! I was 22.
I couldn't agree more. My wife is the core of our family. She's the real power behind the throne. I couldn't appreciate her enough for what she does. I will never deny the importance the nurturing spirit women posses. She does spend more time with our kids because I work, but when I'm home, I try to spend as much time as I have with them. I wish I had more time to give them. yeah, I would be nothing without the support and love from my wife, she certainly deserves a lot of the credit.
"The responsibility is on a massive scale. Why take it on?" I couldn't have put it better. Your statement above is a great example of what I'm trying to say. People simply are choosing to be less responsible. Society generally doesn't praise less responsible people, neither do employers. Its great that you recognize you're not up for responsibility, so people should stop complaining when they're not recognized and stop trying to justify they're not taking responsibility.
Firstly, I don't want them, Secondly, I couldn't give them the love they deserve because I don't want them, thirdly, the world is overpopulated, and finally, if I really did ever change my mind, why not adopt out of the millions of starving children that are already here that have been abandoned and don't have anyone to love them?
I'm 35 years old, and I have known since the age of fourteen that I never wanted children. I have a problem dating too since most men seem to want or already have children.
7bn and counting. What will it be like in 50 years time. Children born today are going to suffer. All they will see are high crime, mass unemployment, famine, lack of housing. I'm so glad I don't have children and don't want them. I want a vasectomy.
to hell with having kids let others go along with the flow I have a strong urge not to and I think a smart person would listen to what their entire body is saying.
Thank you for the good discussion, very rare to find someone willing to talk instead of yell. I'm glad you're happy, I hope you find happiness in all that you do. I can't begin to tell you how much parenting has opened my eyes, things that seemed important now are silly to me. Parenting is really hard and it has its moments, but nothing I've done (which I've done a lot) has come close to the joys of parenting. But then again, its not for everyone so I respect your choice. Take care.
They deserve your respect if they're accepting the fact that they're a parent now (regardless if they meant to have a kid or not), and they're actively taking part in their child's life. I don't care how accidental having a kid is, if you're doing the best you can to be the best parent, then you deserve all our respect. If you don't recognize that, then you're part of the problem. Any person with half a brain can recognize what parenting is and how hard it can be.
and on the same hand, people shouldn't try to make being childfree out to be a bad thing. Let those who want and will care for a child have, and those who have no desire, to not have
Hey no problem. I don't care what others do as long as no other people or animals are harmed, I don't look down on people for having kids. I just get annoyed when some people are rude towards childfree people and treat them as though they're wrong or bad or something.
I'm glad you are sensible. With 7billion people and counting, make any wonder what life will be like in 50 years time. I'm a male of 33 years and love freedom. I'm looking to meet a young lady without children, but in my hometown most even in their early 20s have popped a few kids so I have no hope of finding that special someone. I don't want kids and have said that even at the age of ten. All my ex school mates are tied down with kids but don't have half what I have.
you're right, having a kid just to please society is wrong and shouldn't be done. I never said I disliked people who don't have kids, I dislike it when they complain about society not recognizing them for their choices, or when they try to make parenting seem bad. Sure there are many ways to prove worth, but there isn't a better way to prove worth over parenting, and this is what child-free people have a hard time with.
I hate it when Lorraine Kelly says, "I was never maternal until I was pregnant. You never know." And gives the child-free woman a patronising look. I get sick of being patronised. I don't want children, get over it.
if they are its only momentary, whenever you take on something thats really hard and challenging you have weak moments when you look at someone else and wish you where in their shoes. Then it fades and the truth eventually is reveled, Those without kids are jealous of those who do have them because they get all the recognition. Nobody in their right mind will ever recognize someone without kids as an accomplishment, because its not. Thats the truth.
Many people tell me I'm a good looking bloke but at 33 I've never had a girlfriend. I get the impression no woman finds me attractive but people tell me I need to chill out more as I come across as rather tense. I certainly don't want children and don't want a woman with them so I guess I will have to stay single.
'It simply is a word to describe a bad thing.' Precisely. Somewhere humans defined bad and good, selfish and unselfish. Some human(s) somewhere decided that doing stuff in the interest of self as bad because more often than not, that was done at the expense of others. That leads into the second thing I said, it's not selfish choosing not to have kids because of the fact that if YOU don't want it you should not have it, because otherwise it's selfish to the child because it is unwanted.
I'm sick of people telling me that I'll change my mind too. I know I'm young (I'm 21) and all but I've just always known that I'll never want to have children on my own. I think society does put a tremendous pressure on people like us. All my life I've been told I'll change my mind. And I totally agree with you :) Props for being ChildFree!
It's very obvious on how society views parenting, it acknowledges it as the hardest thing a person could ever do. I congratulates those who try become better at it, it recognizes parents as the ultimate accomplishment. There isn't anything can do that trumps being a good parent. I'll give you an example, the difference between being a parent and not being a parent in society is similar to a high school drop out and a PhD. Society obviously recognized a PhD, cuz it takes a lot of work and effort
yes, society has put a negative connotation on the word. Selfish is anything done primarily in interest of self. Whether it is at the expense of others or not depends on the action. Still, one should not have a child to please others. One should have a child because they want it, not because mama or sister or brother or whoever wants it, because the parent will be taking care of the child, not any of those others.
Spot on. I can't wait to have the snip. The next generation will be worse than my one. God help us all. The world is a shit place and my home country is not the place to raise children. I just wish I could find a woman (20s/30s) that doesn't have kids but it is proving difficult. In my hometown most girls give birth in their teens/20s. If I see a woman I like and find she has a kid, I just walk away. Can't be bothered with the grief.
If society can judge, so can the individual. Personally, I don't give a damn who likes/dislikes me because I chose to not have children, but that doesn't make it right. Childless people have worth, having children is not the only way to prove worthiness. But that is such a far stretch in terms of physical worthiness to other people that it really doesn't matter. The favor of a society full of unknown people is not enough to base having a kid off of
Look at the difference between the appearance of the two mothers and the appearance of the childfree woman. The mothers are frumpy and matronly while the childfree mother is vibrant and modern looking. This is not the most important reason not to have kids. But it is still a marked difference between the two types of women.
Well sure, everyone has their talents, but that's the thing about parenting, few people are able to have parenting as their only job, this is why parenting is so celebrated over any other accomplishment. Take that doctor, if he was amazing in his field that's awesome, but if there was someone of the same skill level as him but who also was a parent, they'd be recognized more.
My mom wants grandchildren, and she puts more pressure on me now, because I'm getting married in about a year ... Ugh, I've told her so many times already that I'm never going to go through such hell. I just told her that she has her 4 other kids, she can demand grandchildren from lol. Don't listen to what everyone tells you, you just do what you want. It's your life and your decision, and never give into pressure ;)
well think about it, if you're they type of person who works hard and does there best, then you'll grow with each opportunity and experience. There is no other experience like parenting. Nothing will mature you faster, grow you stronger, and make you be a better person than parenting. If you're a lazy person, afraid of work, and always complaining then do you think them having a kid is going to make them mature? Of course not.
I agree with what Cameron Diaz and the childfree couple say, they do get shunned by society. However, they do seem to have a lot more things than parents. Ie. money, freedom, cleaner house, less pressure. So if people DON'T want children and instead what I mentioned above, they have to deal with the string attached.
better or not, as long as the worthiness is proved, who is either side to say someone is worth more. People are worth different amounts at different things. A person who had a child may be better at childcare or something, but a doctor who didn't have a child who spent most of their time working may be better at their specialty. Everyone has worth in their own area.
Speaking from experience, I'm not a perfect parent, and I'm sure I've had some bad moments, but there are situations now and then where you just can't shut you're child up. Best thing to do is remove them from the group (if you can) and deal with them. Parenting is hard, that's why its celebrated as probably the hardest thing a person will ever do (when done right). But so many do it bad, chances are they're young and learning, nobody is a good parent at first.
I would never condone harassing someone for their choices, even if I disagree with them. Although I do feel that parenting is the hardest thing a person can do, and I applaud those who try to do it well above all others. No amount of status, professional accomplishments, or money earned will ever top or be celebrated like being a parent. I recognize those who chose not to have kids, just as long as they understand the above point, (which most of them do). (part 1 of 2)
I think people who are parents, deep in their heart of hearts are jealous of the childfree. We had the guts to stand up and not conform to society's standards and religious dogma. I have helped raised my nieces, so I have already experienced the hardships/joys of parenting. Just have no desire to have my own. The responsibility is enormous. It all boils down to knowing whom you are and what you want. Freedom is #1 for me. Children are permanent. There is no return label.
I'm pretty sure most childfree people do think of other people than themselves, I know I do. It's not like we don't want to think of anyone else other than ourselves.
@AlessaGillespie7 : Exactly. Everyone has the right to do what makes them happy. Not having kids makes me happy. I get the best of both worlds. I have my life and get to enjoy the kids in my life when wanted or when their parents need a break. having the freedom to come n go as pleased is awesome. No commitments. No aggravation. Both of my sisters r single parents. I refuse to raise a child alone. Why should I? The kids already here, need the help more.Why bring a precious soul into this chaos?
and there we go. We are in concurrence, then. That's why I said, having a child does not mean one grows out of their maturity, sometimes they do, sometimes, they do not.
God, you'll think parents would at least be a bit sympathetic for their children's choices, but it seems adults forget that they were also children. At least my mum accepts the fact that I don't want to go down the marriage/children path, when there is so much more to do in this world that you cannot do if you have a family to care for. and yes, true words have never been spoken. it's like being at school and pressured to smoke. Oh and congrats to your future marriage, I wish you good luck!
Oh, it ain't, but, for some people, it's not the best thing in the world either.. Some feel that parenting is the best thing you can do. Others do not. It's not bad either way as long as you do good with it.
Dont want them, never will. I actually had a guy at work say to me 'just have one and try it and see', my reaction in not such a polite manner was 'I cant take it back if If I decide I dont want it! I dont want one as it is!'. But still, they dont get it.
Its quite obvious that the main reason people dont want to have kids is because they're afraid of it/ can't handle that level of responsibility. And yes, many people have to get over the fear of raising kids if they want to have them. I had them, I had to get over them, so did my wife. Some people would rather not face it all together and not have kids and then try to justify it.
yeah, they are selfish because you do it for yourself. That does not make them bad choices. Selfish seems to have a negative connotation, when it is not all the time.
Not saying the child-free woman needs to have kids, just pointing out some of the long term benefits of caring for another human being, things like patience, kindness, forgiveness. I notice it more and more, people who decide not to have kids tend to mature at a MUCH slower rate than those with kids. I've found that parents tend to be easier to work with, give better advice, and have an all around better outlook on life.
Yes it did, the maturity buss missed them completely, but I'd be willing to be they were like that before they had kids as well. You see there are always going to be bad parents, they are not celebrated, in fact its one of the worst things you can do as an adult. This is why society looks so far down on those parents who act that way. Just because you squeezed out a kid doesn't make you the end all be all, you have to work at it to be recognized, and some people are just afraid of work.
I know exactly how you feel! I'm 20, decided that I never wanted to give birth and have children (maybe adopt but only a maybe), and when I tell people i.e. my older brother (who seems eager for me to have kids ... just so that HIS kids can have cousins since we never got to see our. and I'M called selfish?!) tells me I'll change my mind, asks me why i don't want marriage or kids, and then calls me a cowardly, selfish, abnormal, immature, spoilt child. Screw him, I'm my own woman.
I did not say they were not getting employed, I said a lot of them not getting what they were worth. I also did not say it was not a big accomplishment, just that it was not for everyone, because some people find more in life doing things other than taking care of child(ren) That logic is not stupid, just somewhat broken. Yes, it is good to raise responsible humans, but it is also good to be able to make a good life for oneself with job. They're both important, but in different arenas.
Obviously Child free people have their worth, but if you where to look at someone as a whole (which society tends to do) that is where one would be recognized more. But this is far from the point I was trying to make. When people try to make parenting look bad or selfish, this is where I point out to them that they're wrong. There are way to many people who are afraid to raise kids but want to justify not having them.
This is somewhat true. Sure there are things that give people maturity, but nothing will mature a person like parenting. Take for example these two women in this video, the mom was a lot more patient and understanding, the child free woman was acting like very immature for her age. Obviously everybody has to work, there is no need to give it mention because it is understood. The only thing that comes close to the level of responsibility of parenting is care giving (usually to the elderly)
Sadly, there is no such thing as a balanced life (work and family), it has to be an either one. My choice is to be single and childfree. You cannot be able to reach a full achievement if you attempt to do so, and I feel I can do a lot more in life. I work hard for my education for so long, proving to people who ever doubted me wrong in their judgement (I have a learning disorder) and I don't see why I should give all that up, all that hard work to achieve my dream Job, for a family I don't.want.
I just feel bad for the child free woman in this talkshow. Because the other two women both have children and she just has to sit there and listen while they both talk about what a wonderful adventure dealing with kids is. She's child free so she obviously doesn't see things that way, and for pretty much half the interview, she's being excluded. Also I love how even the host had to say "and you didn't have them yet", like it's just a matter of time before one thing or another will make the Chil
@ElizabethR1558 Agreed. Not to mention that I am not going to gamble with a child's LIFE hoping that the maternal feelings kick in. There are way too many kids in foster care because of that gamble.
sure, people should do what makes them happy. And they should also not complain when what they do isn't as cool or as respected as what others do, its just that simple. All I ever hear from child-free people is them whining about how society looks down on them for not having kids, the reason is because they've chosen to not take the next step in growth and responsibility and play their whole lives. You've made your choice, stop complaining about what people think of you.
(part 2 of 2) I don't think less of people who chose not to have kids, I'm happy we live in a world where people can make that choice and it not have a serious effect on our economy and population growth (speaking of the US). In Europe they actually have a negative population growth, its already starting to be a big problem, not enough people getting jobs and replacing the retiring workforce.
I'm child free and having children isn't an obligation it's a choice. Children aren't he only greatest thing in the world and it's not an accomplishment it's having sex and it just happening. People have children for selfish reason they just do it cause they think they have too.
@rsgirl10 You're right. I wish I knew more Canadians. It is my dream to visit Vancouver before the end of 2012, and Toronto in the future. You guys seem better educated as well. I love my country, but I hate being surrounded by so many ignorant individuals.
I made the decision when I was eleven that I didn't want kids. I'm 33 and haven't changed my mind. Ppl on here calling CF ppl immature--but most of the ppl I know that have kids are way more immature than the other CF ppl I know. Unfortunately, the immature will continue to breed:(
Yep, massive difference in maturity between those two. Its funny. The Child Free gal is kinda cheeky and prude, while the mother seems very down to earth and much more mature. Hummm, I wonder what caused the difference?????
To reiterate my point, I get sick of people trying to justify and make excuses for not having kids when in reality they're too afraid of the work required to raise a kid. Stop trying to make parenting look bad and shining your child free life in such a great light, you're not fooling anyone. Just accept the fact that there are those who are not afraid of the work evolved with parenting and that they'll be celebrated more because of it. Just saying it how it is...
Nope and nope. As a soldier myself I've had to risk my life, and we all had more respect for those with kids and were doing what we do. I know a lot of soldiers who are very brave, and they are scared to death of having kids. They respect parents and parenting and recognize the sacrifices need to be made in order to be a good parent. I don't care how complicated solving the answer for aids or cancer is, but I can GUARANTEE you its not as complicated as raising kids, ask any parent.
In this world of diminishing ressources , it may seem fun to have a bunch of kids , but it is infact an iresponsable thing to do...I see kids as humans , noone else in the visible comments section does so...
I think you're reading all my comments, I never said they SHOULD get over it. If you don't want kids, then don't have them. Those who do want kids will have them. Even the ones who do want kids are pretty nervous, but they get over it. Also, you said it right there, and I quote; "They just don't want the responsibility" That's it exactly, they're unwilling to take on the responsibility of rearing children, this is why people view them with less respect.
Thanks :D Yeah, having a family will prevent you from realising your life goals and actually accomplish something. All those who say it's not true (the example of celebrities with children is not valid, because they have the material means to make things happen) are just stupid and in denial about the fact that having children ruined their professional life. I'm never going to let that happen to me.
being scared to raise a child isn't a bad thing, if you are, don't have one. But there are plenty of people who are not scared to raise a child, but simply do not want to invest the time, money, and effort to do so, because the end result is not worth it. I am one of them.
I’m a father of four and they are the most lovely - STOP THAT THE DOG DOES NOT GO IN THE MICROWAVE OVEN! Like I was saying, children are angels - DON’T STICK DADDIES TOOLS IN THE GARBAGE DISPOSAL! Back to kids and the wonder - HOW MANY TIMES HAVE I TOLD YOU GUYS NOT TO PLAY WITH FIRE! Sorry got to go the couch is on fire.
There are places in Europe where the birth rate is below the "maintain the population" rate. This effects the economics of Europe. And there isn't any signs of it getting any better.
But it is also selfish, then, to bring a child into the world you don't want and have no urge for just to escape that label. One shouldn't have a child just to say, Oh, look at me, I'm not selfish...when they know they do not want to have one. Yes, I can say I do not want to spend 20 or more years of my life caring for another human being and so I will not have children. My life, my choice. Does that make me selfish? I don't think so, because there are many other things I can do for people.
I think they'd be recognized differently, not more. More seems to say somehow that they are a better person. 'There are way to many people who are afraid to raise kids but want to justify not having them.' And how do you know that? That seems to state that possible fear of child-rearing is something one should just 'get over' by just having a child and dealing with it, like somehow they are denying themselves something by not having a child and need to just do it.
Look, it comes down to calling a spade a spade. Now I don't make it my lifes mission to get on people for not having kids, its a free country, do what you want. Luckly we live in a world where its not a bad thing to skip having kids. My main issue is when people try to make parenting out to be a bad thing (which a lot of videos on You Tube about the subject try to do). This is where I speak up and point out the flaw in their logic.
I knew at age 12 that I would never be a mom. Like that blonde lady I, too, never played with dolls but unlike her I love kids. I am fertile and healthy, still young enough but the desire to reproduce is still entirely ABSENT in me. Nothing wrong with that...it's just not my destiny and that's ok. : )
wow that breeder wants to take her children to persuade more people so they can join in her misery! I can tell breeders are bluffing, they only want to say the positive sides, you dont need to see the world through the eyes of your child, didn't you already go through your own childhood? can you remember what it was like? breeders need to leave childfree people alone and respect that!
@RBG02005 Probably from the UK somewhere - I'm Canadian, and I honestly don't think there's too much of a difference in the way Americans and Canadians speak. Mind you, I think it might be too simple to say that Canadians speak one way or another since it's so culturally diverse here. My guess is that they had an Irish or Scottish accent… Lol, odd discussion =P hope I helped?
working was mentioned because it is one of the reasons people do not want kids, as they love their careers and do not want to take time off for a child. Parenting does not automatically equal maturity.
looks like we have the same views, just from opposite sides of the issue. I can respect people's choice not to have kids, I just get upset when they (the child free crowd) try to compare their choices with ours (those who have/want kids) and attempt to try to suggest we're the foolish ones because their lives are full of money, free time, and fewer responsibilities and ours isn't because of our kids. I wouldn't begrudge you if you felt the same way if someone with kids did the same thing to you.
' Obviously you know why it matters to society because you wouldn't be trying to make such a big statement if you didn't care.' And what are you doing? People should have kids because they want them, not because of societal expectations
I have a question. Why does it matter what society thinks? So should we go have kids so society can recognize that we had some? Where will society be when we feel that we shouldn't have had them? Or that it was a waste of time? Or if we don't love them or can't do it anymore? Then what?
I only consider it wrong or bad when they try to make parenting in general out to be for suckers (which a lot of vocal child-free-by-choice people do). My point has always been the same, I don't care what people do, don't try to justify not having kids by saying those that do are selfish, ignorant, and naive (I'm not saying you specifically, just the child-free in general). This makes me want to point out the flaw in their logic and remind them that nobody will commend them for not having kids.
I don't judge either, I have my own opinions as to the reasons I hear for not having kids, but it makes no difference to me weather people have kids or not. I only get upset when mean harsh words are said towards parenting, because after all, if we didn't have kids, we'd have no economy, luxury, nothing. I have friends who don't have kids and I never pressure/judge them. I might feel some of their reasons are kinda misguided, but its a free country, and they're good people so how am I to judge
in reply to your comment @sh0werp0wer, Having kids is not a selfish choice, this is by far the worst think the CFBC people have done, they've tried to flip reality. Any parent can tell you having kids is not a selfish choice, its hard, takes lots of work, and few are good from the get go. Saying that having kids is selfish is one of the biggest examples of making the right seem wrong, and the wrong seem right.
Well here is where we disagree. There is no accomplishment greater than raising kids. This is a widely understood truth by all cultures. It might not be the greatest accomplishment to you personally, but there isn't anything in your life you've done or will do that society will recognize as being greater than being a parent. Hell, we're about to celebrate our mothers on Sunday, I don't see a "wealth day" or a "professional accomplishment day". Fact, parenting is the hardest thing a person can do
"There are many kinds of success in life worth having...but for unflagging interest and enjoyment, a household of children, if things go reasonably well, certainly makes all other forms of success and achievement lose their importance by comparison." - Teddy Roosevelt
Nobody is a perfect parent, holding every parent to that standard is stupid. Yes there are bad parents out there. I'm a lot more harsh on bad parents then I am with someone who doesn't have kids. I am defending those who do their best (regardless of how perfect they are), and are actively trying to be a good parent. If you have kids and you're a bad parent, that is the worst thing you can do in my book. Shunning from your responsibilities is horrible.
The reasons we had kids are numerous, and it would take a lot of youtube comments to list most of them. But the big one was because we wanted kids. I hope you're not trying to bait me into saying the reasons I had kids are "selfish" because I would gladly debate you on the difference. Not being involved in your kids life is one of the many ways to be a bad parent, probably one of the worst. There is no confusion, not being active = bad parent.
And why should they have to, if they do not want to have them. You said yourself, they get over it, IF THEY WANT TO HAVE THEM. If one does not want kids, they shouldn't have to 'get over it'. They just don't want the responsibility, and that does not make them immature or irresponsible. It would be more immature and irresponsible to have a kid for that reason and find out you cannot do it
I'm 28 and have been married to my husband for 2 years (been together for 6 years). I told him from the moment that our relationship became serious that children would be a deal breaker but happily we are on the same page. No plans for kids now or ever. :)
I decided around high school in my mid-late teens that I didn't want to have children. It's difficult to proclaim you decision let alone stand behind it when everyone is undermining your choice not to have them with such phrases as, "Oh you'll change your mind", "Oh you're young, you have plenty of time", "Wait til you get older, you will regret it". It makes you wonder, will I regret not having kids? Am I really missing out?
Much of society expects a person to go to school, get a job, get married, have kids. I wrestled with this because of society's (and my small town's) view being the expectation to have kids and if you don't then that must mean: you are a selfish person who will be lonely with no one to take care of you.
It drives me crazy when people say such awful things that are actually much more selfish. People are proclaiming you are selfish when you do not want to reproduce. That never made sense to me. Isn't it more selfish to have children for retirement or to combat loneliness? If they're afraid of being lonely or that they need someone to take care of them when they're old then maybe they should be producing better retirement plans vs possible retirement child. There's never a guarantee that your needs will be met by your children (nor should that be asked of them) and if those are your reasons for having children (having a care taker and to have company) then you shouldn't be having any.
If you do want to have a child then you give them everything you can and the best of everything. It's about them now, many parts about you are put aside. You're doing this to have someone to share your love, watch them grow, share traditions and want the best for them. It's not right to expect anything in return. That is not the reason you brought this child into this world and this is a burden that shouldn't be expected of your child.
I for one, do not like children. I find them annoying, time consuming, dirty, loud, expensive, rude, greedy, exhausting, and sure, they're kids! That's normal! What do you expect? I don't want the responsibility or the commitment because I just know the pros do not outweigh the cons when it comes to me having a child. I don't want my body destroyed just so I can bring a mini-me into the world. I have enough anxiety issues as it is. I love my friends kids because I know them but only for short periods and I can decide when to come and go. I like my life. I like to spend my money, use my time and make plans based on myself and my husband. Not a kid.
It's frustrating when people seem shocked or judge or ask why? First, how rude of you to ask! What if I can't have children? Thanks a lot for pointing that out. Secondly, what's it matter to you? Are you going to raise it? The annoyance and ignorance just continues. Children give your life meaning! No, children give YOUR life meaning. Why don't you want children? Um, why DO you want children? You don't know love til you have a child! I'm fine with that. I have the love of my husband, my friends, my parents, my furbabies and many others in my life to make me feel love and be loved. You'll want kids when you find the right man! Excuse me? My husband makes me plenty happy and vice versa, I don't need children to validate this. You're being selfish and you will regret it one day! Not likely. Women are meant to be mothers, the world depends on it! There are 7 billion people on the planet, estimated 9 billion by the end of my generation. Mine won't be noticed, let alone missed. This day and age sure seems pretty scary to bring someone you love into the midst of it.
When asked "when or if" my husband and I are having children we simply say no. The backlash and the shock was hard to deal with but I'm working in a much bigger city where the majority of my coworkers seem to be more on my wave of thinking. I have the added benefit of having a husband who shares my ideals and my parents are not the type to be hounding for grandchildren. They think it is a marvelous decision and they agree that not having children can lead to a life that can be just as rewarding.
I lead a very happy and fulfilled life with my furbabies and my husband (we have 6 kitties and a greyhound), I am much more comfortable and confident in proclaiming my decision than I did in my early 20's. It is really no one's business and they should not question how I wish to lead my life. I choose to be child-free and I relish it.
megan ivy I'm childless though not by choice but by infertility. Oh wait, by choice too. Married for 11 years. Although I do love kids and like being an aunt, I'm so happy I don't have any of my own. My husband feels the same way.
BassPlayerSusan Glad to hear it :) I've been with my husband almost 4 years and I don't know if we are or are not able to have kids but we're happy not having them.
+megan ivy i have been living with my GF for 12 years, no children, we both are kind of adrenaline junkies so having a child would be devastating to both of us, i rather wake up early in the morning and worry about my next adventure than to worry about a child's needs.
123456789iron you put it perfectly! congrats on 12 years!!!
BassPlayerSusan
I know this is late but, if I may say so, that combination seems very lucky, unless your infertility is caused by medical issues that trouble you in other ways, that is.
I knew at 17, when a few people I knew back then were childfree the choice was a no brainer. Now at 53, life is great. If you don't want kids, sterilization is the ONLY way to go.
***** I had it done in the early 80"s. One doctor gave me crap about it. A clinic would do it as well as planned parenthood. I went with a urologist a family member went to. Cost was 350 dollars back then. Because I was single it was out of pocket. Still a bargain!! I was 22.
***** No. The reason I had to pay out of pocket, my insurance wouldn't pay for it unless you were married.
My hubby and I decided years ago to not have children. We've been together for many years and we are happy with each other and our little poodle.
I couldn't agree more. My wife is the core of our family. She's the real power behind the throne. I couldn't appreciate her enough for what she does. I will never deny the importance the nurturing spirit women posses. She does spend more time with our kids because I work, but when I'm home, I try to spend as much time as I have with them. I wish I had more time to give them.
yeah, I would be nothing without the support and love from my wife, she certainly deserves a lot of the credit.
"The responsibility is on a massive scale. Why take it on?"
I couldn't have put it better. Your statement above is a great example of what I'm trying to say. People simply are choosing to be less responsible. Society generally doesn't praise less responsible people, neither do employers. Its great that you recognize you're not up for responsibility, so people should stop complaining when they're not recognized and stop trying to justify they're not taking responsibility.
And full marks to the CF lady. She put forward an excellent and well thought out argument.
Firstly, I don't want them, Secondly, I couldn't give them the love they deserve because I don't want them, thirdly, the world is overpopulated, and finally, if I really did ever change my mind, why not adopt out of the millions of starving children that are already here that have been abandoned and don't have anyone to love them?
I'm 35 years old, and I have known since the age of fourteen that I never wanted children. I have a problem dating too since most men seem to want or already have children.
7bn and counting. What will it be like in 50 years time. Children born today are going to suffer. All they will see are high crime, mass unemployment, famine, lack of housing. I'm so glad I don't have children and don't want them. I want a vasectomy.
to hell with having kids let others go along with the flow I have a strong urge not to and I think a smart person would listen to what their entire body is saying.
Thank you for the good discussion, very rare to find someone willing to talk instead of yell. I'm glad you're happy, I hope you find happiness in all that you do. I can't begin to tell you how much parenting has opened my eyes, things that seemed important now are silly to me. Parenting is really hard and it has its moments, but nothing I've done (which I've done a lot) has come close to the joys of parenting. But then again, its not for everyone so I respect your choice. Take care.
They deserve your respect if they're accepting the fact that they're a parent now (regardless if they meant to have a kid or not), and they're actively taking part in their child's life. I don't care how accidental having a kid is, if you're doing the best you can to be the best parent, then you deserve all our respect. If you don't recognize that, then you're part of the problem. Any person with half a brain can recognize what parenting is and how hard it can be.
and on the same hand, people shouldn't try to make being childfree out to be a bad thing. Let those who want and will care for a child have, and those who have no desire, to not have
Hey no problem.
I don't care what others do as long as no other people or animals are harmed, I don't look down on people for having kids. I just get annoyed when some people are rude towards childfree people and treat them as though they're wrong or bad or something.
I'm glad you are sensible. With 7billion people and counting, make any wonder what life will be like in 50 years time. I'm a male of 33 years and love freedom. I'm looking to meet a young lady without children, but in my hometown most even in their early 20s have popped a few kids so I have no hope of finding that special someone. I don't want kids and have said that even at the age of ten. All my ex school mates are tied down with kids but don't have half what I have.
you're right, having a kid just to please society is wrong and shouldn't be done. I never said I disliked people who don't have kids, I dislike it when they complain about society not recognizing them for their choices, or when they try to make parenting seem bad.
Sure there are many ways to prove worth, but there isn't a better way to prove worth over parenting, and this is what child-free people have a hard time with.
I hate it when Lorraine Kelly says, "I was never maternal until I was pregnant. You never know." And gives the child-free woman a patronising look.
I get sick of being patronised. I don't want children, get over it.
if they are its only momentary, whenever you take on something thats really hard and challenging you have weak moments when you look at someone else and wish you where in their shoes. Then it fades and the truth eventually is reveled, Those without kids are jealous of those who do have them because they get all the recognition. Nobody in their right mind will ever recognize someone without kids as an accomplishment, because its not. Thats the truth.
Many people tell me I'm a good looking bloke but at 33 I've never had a girlfriend. I get the impression no woman finds me attractive but people tell me I need to chill out more as I come across as rather tense. I certainly don't want children and don't want a woman with them so I guess I will have to stay single.
'It simply is a word to describe a bad thing.' Precisely. Somewhere humans defined bad and good, selfish and unselfish. Some human(s) somewhere decided that doing stuff in the interest of self as bad because more often than not, that was done at the expense of others.
That leads into the second thing I said, it's not selfish choosing not to have kids because of the fact that if YOU don't want it you should not have it, because otherwise it's selfish to the child because it is unwanted.
I'm sick of people telling me that I'll change my mind too. I know I'm young (I'm 21) and all but I've just always known that I'll never want to have children on my own. I think society does put a tremendous pressure on people like us. All my life I've been told I'll change my mind.
And I totally agree with you :) Props for being ChildFree!
It's very obvious on how society views parenting, it acknowledges it as the hardest thing a person could ever do. I congratulates those who try become better at it, it recognizes parents as the ultimate accomplishment. There isn't anything can do that trumps being a good parent.
I'll give you an example, the difference between being a parent and not being a parent in society is similar to a high school drop out and a PhD. Society obviously recognized a PhD, cuz it takes a lot of work and effort
yes, society has put a negative connotation on the word.
Selfish is anything done primarily in interest of self. Whether it is at the expense of others or not depends on the action.
Still, one should not have a child to please others. One should have a child because they want it, not because mama or sister or brother or whoever wants it, because the parent will be taking care of the child, not any of those others.
Spot on. I can't wait to have the snip. The next generation will be worse than my one. God help us all. The world is a shit place and my home country is not the place to raise children. I just wish I could find a woman (20s/30s) that doesn't have kids but it is proving difficult. In my hometown most girls give birth in their teens/20s. If I see a woman I like and find she has a kid, I just walk away. Can't be bothered with the grief.
its funny, because you can notice a HUGE difference in maturity between the two women guests.
If society can judge, so can the individual. Personally, I don't give a damn who likes/dislikes me because I chose to not have children, but that doesn't make it right. Childless people have worth, having children is not the only way to prove worthiness. But that is such a far stretch in terms of physical worthiness to other people that it really doesn't matter. The favor of a society full of unknown people is not enough to base having a kid off of
@74RECAS Agreed. For some reason, nobody thinks about the burdens they are putting on children when they have them. All the suffering and so forth.
Look at the difference between the appearance of the two mothers and the appearance of the childfree woman. The mothers are frumpy and matronly while the childfree mother is vibrant and modern looking. This is not the most important reason not to have kids. But it is still a marked difference between the two types of women.
Well sure, everyone has their talents, but that's the thing about parenting, few people are able to have parenting as their only job, this is why parenting is so celebrated over any other accomplishment. Take that doctor, if he was amazing in his field that's awesome, but if there was someone of the same skill level as him but who also was a parent, they'd be recognized more.
My mom wants grandchildren, and she puts more pressure on me now, because I'm getting married in about a year ... Ugh, I've told her so many times already that I'm never going to go through such hell. I just told her that she has her 4 other kids, she can demand grandchildren from lol. Don't listen to what everyone tells you, you just do what you want. It's your life and your decision, and never give into pressure ;)
well think about it, if you're they type of person who works hard and does there best, then you'll grow with each opportunity and experience. There is no other experience like parenting. Nothing will mature you faster, grow you stronger, and make you be a better person than parenting.
If you're a lazy person, afraid of work, and always complaining then do you think them having a kid is going to make them mature? Of course not.
I agree with what Cameron Diaz and the childfree couple say, they do get shunned by society. However, they do seem to have a lot more things than parents. Ie. money, freedom, cleaner house, less pressure. So if people DON'T want children and instead what I mentioned above, they have to deal with the string attached.
better or not, as long as the worthiness is proved, who is either side to say someone is worth more. People are worth different amounts at different things. A person who had a child may be better at childcare or something, but a doctor who didn't have a child who spent most of their time working may be better at their specialty. Everyone has worth in their own area.
Speaking from experience, I'm not a perfect parent, and I'm sure I've had some bad moments, but there are situations now and then where you just can't shut you're child up. Best thing to do is remove them from the group (if you can) and deal with them.
Parenting is hard, that's why its celebrated as probably the hardest thing a person will ever do (when done right). But so many do it bad, chances are they're young and learning, nobody is a good parent at first.
I would never condone harassing someone for their choices, even if I disagree with them. Although I do feel that parenting is the hardest thing a person can do, and I applaud those who try to do it well above all others. No amount of status, professional accomplishments, or money earned will ever top or be celebrated like being a parent.
I recognize those who chose not to have kids, just as long as they understand the above point, (which most of them do).
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I think people who are parents, deep in their heart of hearts are jealous of the childfree. We had the guts to stand up and not conform to society's standards and religious dogma. I have helped raised my nieces, so I have already experienced the hardships/joys of parenting. Just have no desire to have my own. The responsibility is enormous. It all boils down to knowing whom you are and what you want. Freedom is #1 for me. Children are permanent. There is no return label.
I'm pretty sure most childfree people do think of other people than themselves, I know I do. It's not like we don't want to think of anyone else other than ourselves.
@AlessaGillespie7 : Exactly. Everyone has the right to do what makes them happy. Not having kids makes me happy. I get the best of both worlds. I have my life and get to enjoy the kids in my life when wanted or when their parents need a break. having the freedom to come n go as pleased is awesome. No commitments. No aggravation. Both of my sisters r single parents. I refuse to raise a child alone. Why should I? The kids already here, need the help more.Why bring a precious soul into this chaos?
and there we go. We are in concurrence, then. That's why I said, having a child does not mean one grows out of their maturity, sometimes they do, sometimes, they do not.
God, you'll think parents would at least be a bit sympathetic for their children's choices, but it seems adults forget that they were also children. At least my mum accepts the fact that I don't want to go down the marriage/children path, when there is so much more to do in this world that you cannot do if you have a family to care for. and yes, true words have never been spoken. it's like being at school and pressured to smoke. Oh and congrats to your future marriage, I wish you good luck!
Oh, it ain't, but, for some people, it's not the best thing in the world either.. Some feel that parenting is the best thing you can do. Others do not. It's not bad either way as long as you do good with it.
Dont want them, never will. I actually had a guy at work say to me 'just have one and try it and see', my reaction in not such a polite manner was 'I cant take it back if If I decide I dont want it! I dont want one as it is!'. But still, they dont get it.
Its quite obvious that the main reason people dont want to have kids is because they're afraid of it/ can't handle that level of responsibility. And yes, many people have to get over the fear of raising kids if they want to have them. I had them, I had to get over them, so did my wife. Some people would rather not face it all together and not have kids and then try to justify it.
yeah, they are selfish because you do it for yourself. That does not make them bad choices. Selfish seems to have a negative connotation, when it is not all the time.
Not saying the child-free woman needs to have kids, just pointing out some of the long term benefits of caring for another human being, things like patience, kindness, forgiveness. I notice it more and more, people who decide not to have kids tend to mature at a MUCH slower rate than those with kids. I've found that parents tend to be easier to work with, give better advice, and have an all around better outlook on life.
Yes it did, the maturity buss missed them completely, but I'd be willing to be they were like that before they had kids as well. You see there are always going to be bad parents, they are not celebrated, in fact its one of the worst things you can do as an adult. This is why society looks so far down on those parents who act that way. Just because you squeezed out a kid doesn't make you the end all be all, you have to work at it to be recognized, and some people are just afraid of work.
I know exactly how you feel! I'm 20, decided that I never wanted to give birth and have children (maybe adopt but only a maybe), and when I tell people i.e. my older brother (who seems eager for me to have kids ... just so that HIS kids can have cousins since we never got to see our. and I'M called selfish?!) tells me I'll change my mind, asks me why i don't want marriage or kids, and then calls me a cowardly, selfish, abnormal, immature, spoilt child. Screw him, I'm my own woman.
I did not say they were not getting employed, I said a lot of them not getting what they were worth.
I also did not say it was not a big accomplishment, just that it was not for everyone, because some people find more in life doing things other than taking care of child(ren)
That logic is not stupid, just somewhat broken. Yes, it is good to raise responsible humans, but it is also good to be able to make a good life for oneself with job. They're both important, but in different arenas.
Having children is a big resposibility, plus to bring children into this world is also kind of scary and cruel to the child is like child abuse : [
Obviously Child free people have their worth, but if you where to look at someone as a whole (which society tends to do) that is where one would be recognized more. But this is far from the point I was trying to make. When people try to make parenting look bad or selfish, this is where I point out to them that they're wrong. There are way to many people who are afraid to raise kids but want to justify not having them.
People with children = misery loves company.
This is somewhat true. Sure there are things that give people maturity, but nothing will mature a person like parenting. Take for example these two women in this video, the mom was a lot more patient and understanding, the child free woman was acting like very immature for her age.
Obviously everybody has to work, there is no need to give it mention because it is understood.
The only thing that comes close to the level of responsibility of parenting is care giving (usually to the elderly)
Sadly, there is no such thing as a balanced life (work and family), it has to be an either one. My choice is to be single and childfree. You cannot be able to reach a full achievement if you attempt to do so, and I feel I can do a lot more in life. I work hard for my education for so long, proving to people who ever doubted me wrong in their judgement (I have a learning disorder) and I don't see why I should give all that up, all that hard work to achieve my dream Job, for a family I don't.want.
I just feel bad for the child free woman in this talkshow. Because the other two women both have children and she just has to sit there and listen while they both talk about what a wonderful adventure dealing with kids is. She's child free so she obviously doesn't see things that way, and for pretty much half the interview, she's being excluded. Also I love how even the host had to say "and you didn't have them yet", like it's just a matter of time before one thing or another will make the Chil
@ElizabethR1558 Agreed. Not to mention that I am not going to gamble with a child's LIFE hoping that the maternal feelings kick in. There are way too many kids in foster care because of that gamble.
sure, people should do what makes them happy. And they should also not complain when what they do isn't as cool or as respected as what others do, its just that simple. All I ever hear from child-free people is them whining about how society looks down on them for not having kids, the reason is because they've chosen to not take the next step in growth and responsibility and play their whole lives. You've made your choice, stop complaining about what people think of you.
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I don't think less of people who chose not to have kids, I'm happy we live in a world where people can make that choice and it not have a serious effect on our economy and population growth (speaking of the US). In Europe they actually have a negative population growth, its already starting to be a big problem, not enough people getting jobs and replacing the retiring workforce.
You'll love the VHEMT web page too!
Childfree ftw!!! I never wanted to have kids and never will
I'm child free and having children isn't an obligation it's a choice. Children aren't he only greatest thing in the world and it's not an accomplishment it's having sex and it just happening. People have children for selfish reason they just do it cause they think they have too.
@rsgirl10
You're right. I wish I knew more Canadians. It is my dream to visit Vancouver before the end of 2012, and Toronto in the future. You guys seem better educated as well. I love my country, but I hate being surrounded by so many ignorant individuals.
@ilovecalisunset Exactly! I don't see what's so great about having them
I made the decision when I was eleven that I didn't want kids. I'm 33 and haven't changed my mind. Ppl on here calling CF ppl immature--but most of the ppl I know that have kids are way more immature than the other CF ppl I know. Unfortunately, the immature will continue to breed:(
Yep, massive difference in maturity between those two. Its funny. The Child Free gal is kinda cheeky and prude, while the mother seems very down to earth and much more mature.
Hummm, I wonder what caused the difference?????
To reiterate my point, I get sick of people trying to justify and make excuses for not having kids when in reality they're too afraid of the work required to raise a kid. Stop trying to make parenting look bad and shining your child free life in such a great light, you're not fooling anyone. Just accept the fact that there are those who are not afraid of the work evolved with parenting and that they'll be celebrated more because of it.
Just saying it how it is...
Nope and nope. As a soldier myself I've had to risk my life, and we all had more respect for those with kids and were doing what we do. I know a lot of soldiers who are very brave, and they are scared to death of having kids. They respect parents and parenting and recognize the sacrifices need to be made in order to be a good parent.
I don't care how complicated solving the answer for aids or cancer is, but I can GUARANTEE you its not as complicated as raising kids, ask any parent.
In this world of diminishing ressources , it may seem fun to have a bunch of kids , but it is infact an iresponsable thing to do...I see kids as humans , noone else in the visible comments section does so...
I think you're reading all my comments, I never said they SHOULD get over it. If you don't want kids, then don't have them. Those who do want kids will have them. Even the ones who do want kids are pretty nervous, but they get over it.
Also, you said it right there, and I quote;
"They just don't want the responsibility"
That's it exactly, they're unwilling to take on the responsibility of rearing children, this is why people view them with less respect.
Thanks :D Yeah, having a family will prevent you from realising your life goals and actually accomplish something. All those who say it's not true (the example of celebrities with children is not valid, because they have the material means to make things happen) are just stupid and in denial about the fact that having children ruined their professional life. I'm never going to let that happen to me.
I agree with Vicky
that women seems so self important
That woman who didn't have children quite ironically looked like Cameron Diaz.
being scared to raise a child isn't a bad thing, if you are, don't have one. But there are plenty of people who are not scared to raise a child, but simply do not want to invest the time, money, and effort to do so, because the end result is not worth it. I am one of them.
I’m a father of four and they are the most lovely - STOP THAT THE DOG DOES NOT GO IN THE MICROWAVE OVEN! Like I was saying, children are angels - DON’T STICK DADDIES TOOLS IN THE GARBAGE DISPOSAL! Back to kids and the wonder - HOW MANY TIMES HAVE I TOLD YOU GUYS NOT TO PLAY WITH FIRE! Sorry got to go the couch is on fire.
There are places in Europe where the birth rate is below the "maintain the population" rate. This effects the economics of Europe. And there isn't any signs of it getting any better.
Like it's just a matter of time before one thing or another WILL make her changer her mind. Patronizing anyone?
Are there any attractive women out there in their 30s without kids because I'm looking for that special someone with no children?
But it is also selfish, then, to bring a child into the world you don't want and have no urge for just to escape that label. One shouldn't have a child just to say, Oh, look at me, I'm not selfish...when they know they do not want to have one. Yes, I can say I do not want to spend 20 or more years of my life caring for another human being and so I will not have children. My life, my choice. Does that make me selfish? I don't think so, because there are many other things I can do for people.
I think they'd be recognized differently, not more. More seems to say somehow that they are a better person.
'There are way to many people who are afraid to raise kids but want to justify not having them.' And how do you know that? That seems to state that possible fear of child-rearing is something one should just 'get over' by just having a child and dealing with it, like somehow they are denying themselves something by not having a child and need to just do it.
Look, it comes down to calling a spade a spade. Now I don't make it my lifes mission to get on people for not having kids, its a free country, do what you want. Luckly we live in a world where its not a bad thing to skip having kids. My main issue is when people try to make parenting out to be a bad thing (which a lot of videos on You Tube about the subject try to do). This is where I speak up and point out the flaw in their logic.
I knew at age 12 that I would never be a mom. Like that blonde lady I, too, never played with dolls but unlike her I love kids. I am fertile and healthy, still young enough but the desire to reproduce is still entirely ABSENT in me. Nothing wrong with that...it's just not my destiny and that's ok. : )
wow that breeder wants to take her children to persuade more people so they can join in her misery! I can tell breeders are bluffing, they only want to say the positive sides, you dont need to see the world through the eyes of your child, didn't you already go through your own childhood? can you remember what it was like? breeders need to leave childfree people alone and respect that!
@RBG02005
Probably from the UK somewhere - I'm Canadian, and I honestly don't think there's too much of a difference in the way Americans and Canadians speak. Mind you, I think it might be too simple to say that Canadians speak one way or another since it's so culturally diverse here. My guess is that they had an Irish or Scottish accent… Lol, odd discussion =P hope I helped?
working was mentioned because it is one of the reasons people do not want kids, as they love their careers and do not want to take time off for a child. Parenting does not automatically equal maturity.
looks like we have the same views, just from opposite sides of the issue. I can respect people's choice not to have kids, I just get upset when they (the child free crowd) try to compare their choices with ours (those who have/want kids) and attempt to try to suggest we're the foolish ones because their lives are full of money, free time, and fewer responsibilities and ours isn't because of our kids. I wouldn't begrudge you if you felt the same way if someone with kids did the same thing to you.
' Obviously you know why it matters to society because you wouldn't be trying to make such a big statement if you didn't care.'
And what are you doing? People should have kids because they want them, not because of societal expectations
I have a question. Why does it matter what society thinks? So should we go have kids so society can recognize that we had some? Where will society be when we feel that we shouldn't have had them? Or that it was a waste of time? Or if we don't love them or can't do it anymore? Then what?
I only consider it wrong or bad when they try to make parenting in general out to be for suckers (which a lot of vocal child-free-by-choice people do). My point has always been the same, I don't care what people do, don't try to justify not having kids by saying those that do are selfish, ignorant, and naive (I'm not saying you specifically, just the child-free in general). This makes me want to point out the flaw in their logic and remind them that nobody will commend them for not having kids.
Self centered is such a nagative word though, it's like you're saying that what they're doing is 'wrong', or 'bad', when it isn't.
I don't judge either, I have my own opinions as to the reasons I hear for not having kids, but it makes no difference to me weather people have kids or not. I only get upset when mean harsh words are said towards parenting, because after all, if we didn't have kids, we'd have no economy, luxury, nothing.
I have friends who don't have kids and I never pressure/judge them. I might feel some of their reasons are kinda misguided, but its a free country, and they're good people so how am I to judge
in reply to your comment @sh0werp0wer,
Having kids is not a selfish choice, this is by far the worst think the CFBC people have done, they've tried to flip reality. Any parent can tell you having kids is not a selfish choice, its hard, takes lots of work, and few are good from the get go. Saying that having kids is selfish is one of the biggest examples of making the right seem wrong, and the wrong seem right.
Well here is where we disagree. There is no accomplishment greater than raising kids. This is a widely understood truth by all cultures. It might not be the greatest accomplishment to you personally, but there isn't anything in your life you've done or will do that society will recognize as being greater than being a parent. Hell, we're about to celebrate our mothers on Sunday, I don't see a "wealth day" or a "professional accomplishment day". Fact, parenting is the hardest thing a person can do
Thanks, Lorraine, us child-free folk haven't heard that one before! 1:21 ...oh yeah, we have. Yet another patronising remark.
"There are many kinds of success in life worth having...but for unflagging interest and enjoyment, a household of children, if things go reasonably well, certainly makes all other forms of success and achievement lose their importance by comparison."
- Teddy Roosevelt
All the natalist stereotypes and prejudices came out as the CF lady was confronted by the brood mare and the celebrity breeder presenter.
Nobody is a perfect parent, holding every parent to that standard is stupid. Yes there are bad parents out there. I'm a lot more harsh on bad parents then I am with someone who doesn't have kids. I am defending those who do their best (regardless of how perfect they are), and are actively trying to be a good parent. If you have kids and you're a bad parent, that is the worst thing you can do in my book. Shunning from your responsibilities is horrible.
@LadySleek83 : **Shaking your hand** Feel the same way.
The reasons we had kids are numerous, and it would take a lot of youtube comments to list most of them. But the big one was because we wanted kids. I hope you're not trying to bait me into saying the reasons I had kids are "selfish" because I would gladly debate you on the difference.
Not being involved in your kids life is one of the many ways to be a bad parent, probably one of the worst. There is no confusion, not being active = bad parent.
Canadian or Scottish?
I can't tell, I'm American.
And why should they have to, if they do not want to have them. You said yourself, they get over it, IF THEY WANT TO HAVE THEM. If one does not want kids, they shouldn't have to 'get over it'. They just don't want the responsibility, and that does not make them immature or irresponsible. It would be more immature and irresponsible to have a kid for that reason and find out you cannot do it