Bravo, young sir. I consider myself a poet and Christian. 60 plus years laboring in the vineyard of understanding, and you mate are already far in that very labor...vaya con Dios, Amigo!
Though I'm an agnostic-athiest, I've taken a great interest in the bible and understanding its impact on the world and how it has affect many books I've read and will read in the future.
Growing up reformed Presbyterian, I was taught typology via covenant theology, which I later realized greatly influenced literature. I left Christianity but am now coming back to it as an artist, and wondering if that is the way I should have approached it in the first place.
How are you doing mr Adam . Thank you for your wonderful cultural literary channel. I gathered main information about topic you mentioned briefly here it’s actually more than half or Old Testament is poetry . The Old Testament makes up more than two thirds of Christian bible . There even some poetic sections in New Testament ( Luke 1: 46 ) , Philippians 2: 6 . Old testaments poems are especially precious because they help us understand our most important feelings and experiences. There are different styles of poetry in bible such as royal psalms, hymns, poetry songs , dirge’s ( Ezekiel 19 ) , blessings , communal , laments . First poem in bible gensis . Poetry makes up 33 percent of bible ( 387 chapters) .there are five poets in Hebrew bible. We hear Solomon rhapsodize Song of Songs, David chants in psalms, god and job debate in grand rhetoric and prophet poet Isaiah plead for peace, Jesus speaks in wisdom verse in gospel, Paul is philosopher of love , John of Patmos roars . Majestically in revelation in bible epic poem . In short bible influenced John Milton to greater extent than any other English poet . Milton Chaucer and Shakespeare are known as trio of English poetry giants . Humanity expulsion from Edan and lasting consequences of what Christians call ( the fall ) have haunted poets throughout centuries. I hope you like my research. Thank you again for giving us chance to read learn new information improve our English as well. Good luck to you your dearest ones.
Also the reason it's called anti type is cause terminology comes from casting moulds. Think of how the two halves of the mould are mirror images and you place them against eachother. So it's a way of saying it's a mirror image, a reflections, the same but different.
8:52 It seems a little strange to call the type/antitype conversation a "call and response" between old testament and new testament authors when the old testament authors obviously couldn't respond, having been dead for ~350 years. Also, Doré was clearly a genius, but it's not like he was working from original photographic evidence when he depicted the Numbers 22 scene as having snakes hanging from a crucifix and thus echoing his own depiction of the antitype in John 3. The whole typological project seems a little post-hoc. Maybe I'm just coming at this from an overly modern perspective; I've read about the various documentary hypotheses about the Hebrew bible and they seem pretty convincing, and I've read Zealot by Reza Aslan and also found it pretty convincing about the historical context of early Christianity. I'd be curious to know whether any pre-Modernist poets questioned typology's underlying assumptions, though. Surely there was a Jewish poet or two who didn't see the Pentateuch as an elaborate preamble to the Christian bible? Also: sweet rhyme, Giles Fletcher at 21:16 - "prostitute / body suit!" No notes!
A call and response in a liturgical setting is something said and something repeated. If we think of the NT as responding to the OT, it makes sense, but all metaphors break down with scrutiny. Yes, this kind of reading is challenged by some counter-reformation hermeneutics in the 17th century. It's obviously not something Jewish poets subscribed to. The Doré plates are merely to demonstrate the artist's awareness of typology. The symmetry of his depictions are visual interpretations of this particular hermeneutic.
btw - I'd like to thank you for citing to Numbers 22, which is among my favorites. That general section of Numbers, from where Moses curses himself by striking the stone to where Balaam's ass upbraids his master for being blind to what a even a dumb beast could see, is part of the rock of my moral compass. "What have I done to you to make you beat me these three times?"
I love that. Thanks for sharing, James! William Wordsworth's poem "Peter Bell" derives much from the incident with Balaam's ass. Wish I could have mentioned it, but check it out if you haven't already!
@@closereadingpoetry No, not before now anyway. It is I see rather long and therefore ignominiously finds itself at the bottom of an already too long tbr. Long tho it be I do eventually get to them all - mostly - thx
@@closereadingpoetry Okay, I just read Wordsworth's "Peter Bell" and of course recognize the mish-mosh puzzle of typological pieces from the Book of Numbers specifically and the first five books of Moses generally. There is of course the ass beaten without reason who nonetheless possesses something approaching wisdom and power that shape Peter Bell's destiny. Also there is the frustration and the rocks, striking out for no real reason - the distrust, the contempt - and in the end the punishment. There is even a sense of Peter like the spy sent by Moses and his brother to find water. So, yes, I think that I can see how the poet here receives some of the same images but puts them together to form a story with a different story with a different moral. Thx - it's interesting
@@jamesduggan7200Interesting things about Numbers 22 according to the ArtScroll Stone Edition of Tanach, about verse 28 the Ramban commentary states "The purpose of the miracle was to show Balaam that if a beast could speak intelligently, then surely Balaam could be forced to say what God wanted him to." And of 22:21, when Balaam woke up and mounted his donkey, it says according to Rashi, "Surely it was not fitting for a man of Balaam's stature to saddle his own donkey, but he hated Israel so much that he did not let dignity stand in his way."
@@adamjohns350 Yes, Tanach scholars often have fresh and clever interpretations. I had never thought of it as a lesson in that sense but it's reasonable. It comes from a tradition of having nothing better to do at night than discuss passages from the first five books and find personal meanings.
Probably more accurate to say the anti type is a kind of homage to the type than to say the type foreshadows the anti type. Don't want to mislead people into believing these are prophecies.
![Chris Langan - The Interview THEY Didn't Want You To See - CTMU [Full Version; Timestamps]](/img/n.gif)
Bravo, young sir. I consider myself a poet and Christian. 60 plus years laboring in the vineyard of understanding, and you mate are already far in that very labor...vaya con Dios, Amigo!
😂😂 I was never awake for English Lit and I just sat through 3 hr lectures on this channel 🙆🏾♀️🙆🏾♀️🙆🏾♀️🙆🏾♀️
endlessly enthralled by these videos!!
Though I'm an agnostic-athiest, I've taken a great interest in the bible and understanding its impact on the world and how it has affect many books I've read and will read in the future.
This is good. Well done ! I myself am a literature PhD candidate and I always like seeing how other fellow PhD candidates work.
Growing up reformed Presbyterian, I was taught typology via covenant theology, which I later realized greatly influenced literature. I left Christianity but am now coming back to it as an artist, and wondering if that is the way I should have approached it in the first place.
The word "antitype" comes from the Greek word "antitupos," which means "formed after a pattern" or "corresponding to a type."
Great topic!
Yes, Dore's ability to transcend time particularly with respect to theology is something I do need help unpacking.
How are you doing mr Adam . Thank you for your wonderful cultural literary channel. I gathered main information about topic you mentioned briefly here it’s actually more than half or Old Testament is poetry . The Old Testament makes up more than two thirds of Christian bible . There even some poetic sections in New Testament ( Luke 1: 46 ) , Philippians 2: 6 . Old testaments poems are especially precious because they help us understand our most important feelings and experiences. There are different styles of poetry in bible such as royal psalms, hymns, poetry songs , dirge’s ( Ezekiel 19 ) , blessings , communal , laments . First poem in bible gensis . Poetry makes up 33 percent of bible ( 387 chapters) .there are five poets in Hebrew bible. We hear Solomon rhapsodize Song of Songs, David chants in psalms, god and job debate in grand rhetoric and prophet poet Isaiah plead for peace, Jesus speaks in wisdom verse in gospel, Paul is philosopher of love , John of Patmos roars . Majestically in revelation in bible epic poem . In short bible influenced John Milton to greater extent than any other English poet . Milton Chaucer and Shakespeare are known as trio of English poetry giants . Humanity expulsion from Edan and lasting consequences of what Christians call ( the fall ) have haunted poets throughout centuries. I hope you like my research. Thank you again for giving us chance to read learn new information improve our English as well. Good luck to you your dearest ones.
Also the reason it's called anti type is cause terminology comes from casting moulds. Think of how the two halves of the mould are mirror images and you place them against eachother. So it's a way of saying it's a mirror image, a reflections, the same but different.
Also re: the Dickinson at 31:06 - was this friendship-that would Last-or was it something-More! (sorry)
8:52 It seems a little strange to call the type/antitype conversation a "call and response" between old testament and new testament authors when the old testament authors obviously couldn't respond, having been dead for ~350 years. Also, Doré was clearly a genius, but it's not like he was working from original photographic evidence when he depicted the Numbers 22 scene as having snakes hanging from a crucifix and thus echoing his own depiction of the antitype in John 3. The whole typological project seems a little post-hoc.
Maybe I'm just coming at this from an overly modern perspective; I've read about the various documentary hypotheses about the Hebrew bible and they seem pretty convincing, and I've read Zealot by Reza Aslan and also found it pretty convincing about the historical context of early Christianity. I'd be curious to know whether any pre-Modernist poets questioned typology's underlying assumptions, though. Surely there was a Jewish poet or two who didn't see the Pentateuch as an elaborate preamble to the Christian bible?
Also: sweet rhyme, Giles Fletcher at 21:16 - "prostitute / body suit!" No notes!
A call and response in a liturgical setting is something said and something repeated. If we think of the NT as responding to the OT, it makes sense, but all metaphors break down with scrutiny.
Yes, this kind of reading is challenged by some counter-reformation hermeneutics in the 17th century. It's obviously not something Jewish poets subscribed to.
The Doré plates are merely to demonstrate the artist's awareness of typology. The symmetry of his depictions are visual interpretations of this particular hermeneutic.
@@closereadingpoetry Thanks for the response! I enjoyed this video.
btw - I'd like to thank you for citing to Numbers 22, which is among my favorites. That general section of Numbers, from where Moses curses himself by striking the stone to where Balaam's ass upbraids his master for being blind to what a even a dumb beast could see, is part of the rock of my moral compass. "What have I done to you to make you beat me these three times?"
I love that. Thanks for sharing, James! William Wordsworth's poem "Peter Bell" derives much from the incident with Balaam's ass. Wish I could have mentioned it, but check it out if you haven't already!
@@closereadingpoetry No, not before now anyway. It is I see rather long and therefore ignominiously finds itself at the bottom of an already too long tbr. Long tho it be I do eventually get to them all - mostly - thx
@@closereadingpoetry Okay, I just read Wordsworth's "Peter Bell" and of course recognize the mish-mosh puzzle of typological pieces from the Book of Numbers specifically and the first five books of Moses generally. There is of course the ass beaten without reason who nonetheless possesses something approaching wisdom and power that shape Peter Bell's destiny. Also there is the frustration and the rocks, striking out for no real reason - the distrust, the contempt - and in the end the punishment. There is even a sense of Peter like the spy sent by Moses and his brother to find water. So, yes, I think that I can see how the poet here receives some of the same images but puts them together to form a story with a different story with a different moral. Thx - it's interesting
@@jamesduggan7200Interesting things about Numbers 22 according to the ArtScroll Stone Edition of Tanach, about verse 28 the Ramban commentary states "The purpose of the miracle was to show Balaam that if a beast could speak intelligently, then surely Balaam could be forced to say what God wanted him to." And of 22:21, when Balaam woke up and mounted his donkey, it says according to Rashi, "Surely it was not fitting for a man of Balaam's stature to saddle his own donkey, but he hated Israel so much that he did not let dignity stand in his way."
@@adamjohns350 Yes, Tanach scholars often have fresh and clever interpretations. I had never thought of it as a lesson in that sense but it's reasonable. It comes from a tradition of having nothing better to do at night than discuss passages from the first five books and find personal meanings.
What is typology?
Probably more accurate to say the anti type is a kind of homage to the type than to say the type foreshadows the anti type. Don't want to mislead people into believing these are prophecies.
But that's how the English poets read the types, as prophecies not as homages.
Sorry imean half of I wrote in hurry.
Thou shalt not read The Bible for its prose.-Auden
the bible is a history book that features God as a character of history. This generally makes academics weep and gnash their teeth.