Well what's also nuts is that you get to run 2 of those bad boys with zero deck restrictions. Imagine blood deathknight with two of those and giga health, you'd have to win by turn 7 or give up on winning by damage. Fucking disgusting. I think a human might make a custom card like that but they'd at least make it legendary.
I think the biggest giveaway for the custom cards is creative flavoring and complex references to other cards or things. Pot of Blood has all of that. Its a blood card, makes something cost health and it is a pot that draws cards, which is obviously a yugioh reference
The second card exists in game right now - it's Sanctum Spellbender. The wording is a bit different, but basically it has that effect and no one plays it.
@@hugomendoza5665 haven't seen that happen but I'm guessing the effect would trigger in play order. The copy that was played first would retarget the spell to itself, then the second copy would retarget it to itself and then the spell would cast only on the second copy.
@@Actinjsh No, Sanctum Spellbender says "Whenever your opponent targets *another* minion with a spell, redirect it to this." Another means "a minion that is not Sanctum Spellbender" (Same reason why Flesh Behemoth can't draw a copy of itself) So if you have two copies in the board and you target one of them, they just don't trigger.
@@paperknigth2263but you can have two of them and an enemy has some minions that he throws the spell onto their minions. also when you have 2 of them and somebody plays a spell onto one of them, the other should take the spell, because he is a different minion than the other one.
I assumed that Fallen Loyalist is a custom card because of the missing period at the end. It just didn't seem like the kind of mistake an AI would make. It might word things in a weird way or say things that don't make sense, but it's pretty consistent with its punctuation
That icy self card would be so good in sif mage. You just need to have the location on board and on the combo turn you could play sif, use location on sif, play this on sif to get a copy and blast the opponent with either a volley of cheap damaging spells like arcane bolts and the free geyser one, or you could just cast a forged molten rune.
I agree! I also think that the card art looks just like him and imsad none of them said anything. also, there's no way AI could come up with a card pun like "I see self"
Best combination for Lo'Gosh would be "Dormant, Can't attack". Meaning you suddenly have a stone on your board that you can't even silence or remove for x amount of turns. Or Dormant for 10 turns :'D
I wonder how dormant would work since there’s no counter on the keyword by itself, would it be a standard number? would it be randomised? or would it just never wake up D:
I don't think Dormant would count as a keyword for the purposes of that kind of thing. "Random bonus effect" has been used in this way a bunch of times to exclude Charge as well. "Can't Attack" isn't even bolded so that would definitely not be one though. If we counted all bold texts as keywords you could get cards that say things like "Battlecry:, you" which would just be weird.
About the Lo'Gosh dude, the Dormant Rush keyword actually works, there is the bird that has it and works like that, dormant 2 turns and then you smash it instant
@@Skrek-qw1jz the Hearthstone devs could make that work, simply by using a dormant effect of other dormant cards, and yes, you could have Magtheridon or The Darkness dormant, but still could have a useful Boulderfist Ogre with Dormant for 1 turn and Windfury, stuff like that
Strongarm Patroller wouldn't work because you would need to target before the card is on the battlefield and the wording says it has to be on the bf to trigger. Probably someone who plays MTG created this
@@tine1012There is a difference between a card using a mechanic that happens to be in another game and a card as iconic as Pot of Greed being referenced
@@Warpzel65 Spellkite is pretty iconic, it's also an effect not yet printed at all in HS, so I assumed the AI was trained on card games in general, there is nothing preventing people from training the AI on card names from every game leading to pot of greed.
My read on how 2 Holy Protectors would interact would be based on reading the ability as "Whenever a minion is targeted by a spell, counter that spell and apply its effect to this card". So, a few scenarios: 2 Holy Protectors, one of them gets targeted - both are affected by the spell. 2 Holy Protectors and a 3rd other minion, the 3rd minion gets targeted - both Holy Protectors are affected by the spell. You aren't retargeting a spell or moving it. Targeting the spell is a trigger that they both see, one of them counters it, the other one tries to counter it and fails but they've both seen the spell being aimed so they both apply its effects to themselves. It seems better for duplicating buffs instead of tanking spells.
Common thread between a lot of the AI cards: The AI is so preoccupied with “can we do this effect”, that it never stops for basic card game design. Yes, you CAN print a minion that regains stealth when attacking face, but you shouldn’t cause it only ever has one play pattern.
You don't think that applies to custom cards such as Big Bad Wolf? The intended play pattern there is extremely obvious. How about the custom Time Warp?
well looks like this one passes the Turing test it's actually pretty easy to determine ai vs custom. anything that involves context outside of hearthstone is custom, since ai is just generated out of hearthstone data
I really thought the Xara card with the rewind was somebody with some really thirsty art that never fully thought out what the effect would be. Really surprised to see Ai made that one
Shadow blade assassin would probably read “after this minion attacks a hero, it gains +1 attack and returns to stealth” since there’s no reason for it to wait till the end of the turn.
I found that you can usually tell if it is custom made based on flavor. Some of these cards are so thematically fitting that there is no way an AI could ever come up with it. I am also very impressed with the person who came up with that flavor.
Card #2 makes sense. If there are two Holy Protectors and one is targeted, the other one takes the EFFECT. The other one is NOT being targeted by a spell; it is only be targeted by the effect of the spell. The original target of the spell is valid and the target of the spell's effect is valid, so no... it could easily be programmed not to bounce back & forth.
What if there are 3 minions on board and neither of the two Holy Protectors are targeted, which Holy Protector gets the effect? Both? If both gets the effect the flavor text doesn't really make any sense unless it says something else than "this minion takes it instead"
@@synthetic240 That's not simple at all, both of those options changes everything about the card and whether or not you should even include it in your deck. Not to mention it isn't easily understood by new players, or players making a deck around it not knowing how it works until it see play which just means that it's a poorly written flavor text. Also, if it's random it can be frustrating to keep both on the board not knowing which effect will affect which card, if only the first one triggers you may be left with a 24 minion in your hand or a rather useless 24 minion on board. So, only include one in your deck then..? Not really that simple, then it might not really see much play so building around it doesn't make much sense in this regard. Both of these sounds like a headache to deal with. The flavor text should be so easy you already know how the card behaves on board when it's in play before you've even played it. Including it in a deck and misunderstanding how it works because of the text is poor game design.
U can deduce that the sathrovarr card was ai cuz it just combined the names of 2 already existing cards into one. A human wouldnt do that but its common for ai (just like with time warp)
I think an issue with Timeless Chronomancer is that to my knowledge all legendary minions have an actual name not just a title so it should be [name], Timeless Chronomancer
On Xara, the Timebender "redo your last turn" in my brain it works like this: If any Battlecry or Deathrattle occured, trigger again if you played like Arcane Intelect for carddraw, do it again, did X minion hit face and survived? (Broken if it would ignore taunts), do it again. Did you play a healing spell on you/minon (if its still there ofc) recast sorts like that. If anybody has more scenarios we could add feel free to coment.
19:35 that card is essentially remove summoning sickness for 6 Mana, that actually could be pretty strong, especially if you cheat the card out somehow. It seems like it would be a fun card to try and make work.
AI causes an issue when it would otherwise take the job away from a real artist. In this case, Rarren would never have paid artists to draw custom art for each of these cards so it never would have mattered fortunately.
@@AroWolfArts yes that's a very good point I had forgotten that. Luckily, as you say, it's likely the hearthstone artists have already received the compensation for the art which is now Blizzard property
@@BGAbazor you forget AI art is trained off of real artists, in this case to recreate Hearthstone's artstyle it definitely had to "feed" and steal from a big number of artists working for Blizzard
@@Davefacechannel Not to mention all the work done by exploited/abused workers to tag/catalogue all the images used in the datasets used to train these algorithms
10:45 It is *really* nitpicky from me, but Rarran's wording isn't exactly the same. "Whenever" implies that the minion gains attack *before* damage is determined, not after, so it works a bit differently. I'm fun at parties, I swear.
“Strongarm patrolller” would never work that way, it would either specify what would be destroyed, or it would specify that you could choose what would get destroyed.
At this point I THINK THAT YOU and MarkMcKz are by far *THE BEST* HS "youtubers" at this time. He has great combo decks and YOU are giving ppl what they want OR what they are asking for. You are two most popular "hs" youtuber players at this moment. colab maybe???
I believe the Icy Self card flavor is that you're taking a minion out of its ice encasing that would have the minion's shape, and summoning a copy of it which would be giving life to it's former encasing, which also explains why it's a frost spell, so it's not thawing, it's more teleporting out of the encasing. I don't see any flavor on the trading, I think it's just to help it as a tech card. Also, kind of funny to think the AI would make such weird, out of place grammar mistakes and thinking it could get the flavor from The Big Bad Wolf right. Also also, I believe Xara, the Timebender is trying to mimick Toki's adventure hero power. It's worded diferently, and definitely would need some heavy re-wording to work in the real game, but I do think that's what it's trying to do.
For arcane anomoly i didn't pick up on the random mage spell part. But I went with AI because arcane anomaly is also already a card. I don't know how common it is for a custom card to use a name of an already existing card but I feel like people would look up names to see if it exists first.
Personal guesses: - 7:12 I guessed custom made, just because of how cool it is, and I can't find anything in it that is worded wrong, or something like that. - 9:28 Pretty obvious AI card, as Rarran said, the text says "whenever this minion attacks", meaning it would get the +1 attack and Stealth before it attacks, which wouldn't make sense. Also, I think it would read "it gains +1 attack and Stealth", not that it returns to Stealth, which sounds off. - 11:24 At first I thought it was a custom card, but I did notice the "random" word there, which is an obvious mistake. - 14:23 Honestly no idea, the card itself is terrible, it's just a worse version of Hellfire, so it could be either an AI card or custom made by someone who just made a terrible card. But it being an AI card in the end makes sense. - 15:52 A custom card for sure, it's way too fun, imaginitive, and logical to be an AI card. - 17:27 Another hard one, It's a cool idea, like trying to make an "extra turn" card balanced, but the "your mana crystals are empty" phrasing doesn't seem official, and the spell doesn't have an Arcane tag, which I think it should, so I finally guessed AI. - 20:20 Yet again a hard choice. The card seems good, but I'm not sure if Hearthstone has a mechanic in it that reveals cards, and I'm quite sure that there isn't one that lets the revealed cards stay revealed, meaning you could only see the revealed card once, so I'm going to guess AI. But I guess I was wrong, damn. - 22:38 I'm going to say custom, this is a pretty great card. It feels unique, interesting, and the phrasing seems to be logical. I honestly didn't even think about the color of the card, so I guess that's why I got it right. - 24:15 Well, there's a spelling error in the card, but I'm not sure if that's just a human mistake. I'm gonna have to say AI, it's not that good of a card, and I can see the spelling error being an AI error. But it seems I should have stuck with the human error theory. - 26:26 Oh my god, I don't know, it's just a weird card that would not work in a lot of cases. Like, what if the spell is a spell that targets minions, or if it's draw a card spell? I'm gonn say AI, it's possible that a human made it and didn't just think about cards that don't deal damage and can't damage heroes, but I'd say it's more likely to be an AI error. - 29:04 My lack of new Hearthstone knowledge is killing me here, because I do not know if "thaw" is a real word that is used in the game. tI also seems like a bad card, because it implies that it only works on Frozen minions, and the card itself doesn't seem to make sense, like, "icy self"? What does that mean, and what does it have to do with thawing yourself and summoning a copy? So, I'm gonna guess AI. But I guess I was wrong, and someone just made a card that doesn't make sense, lmao. - 31:52 The deciding factor on what my guess is for this card depends on the ordering of the Battlecry. Like, it says "Battlecry: If this is the highest cost highest-Attack minion", which is a very vague, since it brings up the question that could this card even be considered on the battlefield when it uses the Battlecry ability, because technically it isn't on the field yet? I would say no, so my guess is AI. But, again, it seems it's just another custom card that doesn't make quite sense. - 33:26 An awesome card, it's thematically very cool, but unfortunately, the spelling error of "from" instead of "for" makes it obvious that it's an AI card, at least I hope so, because otherwise it would just be another human error. But it seems like the people who make these cards just can't write English. - 36:05 Interesting card, it uses the right grammar of the ' at the end, so I'm leaning more into AI. The name of the card not matching the text also makes me feel more confident in my guess. - 38:04 I'm gonna say custom. The card simply does not make sense, but I feel like it's another human mistake, like, why is the first sentence just flavor text? And how would the card draws even work? Would it draw new random cards off the top, or would it draw the same cards? Idk, it just feels off, so I'm gonna say custom. But no, it's an AI error, which is weird, because I'm not sure where an AI would get the flavor text from. - 40: 48 Another card that is very poosly phrased. Like, the adding sounds off, and on the last sentence it's very unclear if "its" means the card itself, or the card that got destroyed. So, again, it's just a toss up between this card being a human error or an AI error. Idk, I'm gonna say AI. - 43:46 I think everything in the card makes sense, so I'm saying custom. - 44:13 Yet another card that simply does not make any sense, like, what does the "copies" even mean here, so the guess is yet again based on if this is a human or an AI error. Idk, I guess I say custom, it feels more like a human error. - 46:38 Okay, this is a hard one. The first thing I noticed is that the H in health is not capitalized, which is different to another previous AI generated card where the H was capitalized. Additionally, the card uses periods when listing the effects, which I think is wrong, since I think other cards use commas. Because of these, I'm gonna say it's a custom card, where the creator just made a few mistakes. But no, it was an AI card, which is strange, since the other AI card used a capitalized H, I imagined that the AI would make same mistakes, but apparently not.
xara would have to remove itself after single use. Otherwise you could just infinite cycle until you have whatever card you want. And as even after you get perfect draw, you would still have xara so you could just keep cycling every turn until you get perfect draw for every turn (after turn 4)
everytime alex is mentioned for Timeless chronomancer my brain goes 'so the second effect just heals both players back to full making the first effect pointless' I had to look up the wording to stop being confused
Most people who dislike AI Art (like me) mainly have a moral issue with the theft of content for machine learning. Since most images used for this should be of Hearthstone cards, taking art from Blizzard, not independend, perhaps struggling artists. So I think most can tolerate it. I mean, I consider most AI Art ugly anyway, but that alone shouldn't make anyone take issue with someone using it.
The even more obviously unethical component of AI is how the sample images / training-data have been catalogued by real people in exploitative and abusive circumstances. Think of it like a digital sweatshop
@@CycleMantis Eh, it's always difficult to say which of two misdeeds is worse. I'd say the theft oft fruits of other people's labour, who often struggle themselves (I'm active in online art sphreres and many come from countries where what little they get from western comissions is the best option they have to get through their cost of living) is arguably worse than mistreated workers who at least gone into that relation voluntarily. But I can see the argument.
@@Lysvsyl What? Mistreated workers IS theft of the fruits of other people's labor. Perhaps it is time you actually read about what that sentence means because you do not understand it. The first is a denial of hypothetical profits, the second is a denial of actual profits.
@@Voidkom First off, I don't take people who use 9th grade commie phrasing seriously. Second: You clearly are not able to understand what I have written. My point is that even if an employer employee relationship is exploitative, it is voluntary in this case. While the theft of art is unconsensual theft. I said that there is an argument for both sides but that I personally consider the lack of consent more evil than exploitation in a consensual contract. But I doubt that'll convince you, since you sound like you follow an ideology. Reason rarely helps there.
Not fully in the twilight flavour, but balance wise, if this was "battlecry: give a friendly minion +2 health then deal 2 damage to it" it could work. With that effect it could be a warrior / priest dual card. Rename it to "battlefield medic" or something along the lines.
the holy protector argument of what happen if multiple of the minion is on board doesn't really make sense since snapjaw shellfighter already have a similar effect, most of the time these effect will have their own logic to prevent bugs happen like the effect can only trigger once in a loop
@@markuswelander8551 Half the time you just play that early to get an extra card draw and an extra land. If you have outside effects that allow you to untap though, it's absolutely bonkers for 3 mana.
The timewarp card basically just has overload 10 except you can get back mana crystals. I think it would be printable with overload 10 so you either need very cheap minions or an already developed board for otk's
Can we talk about the fact that the Icy Self card art looks EXACTLY like Ecore, and he goes I have no idea why but this is the only card I don't like. LMAO
In other card games, Holy Protector isnt that unique but it does have a logic how it works like making the effect not mandatory, etc. Can tell its an AI card
Thanks Rarran, great video. Love the new ideas and interesting content. Pretty sure I played you in Twist the other day, unless someone else is using your name. Ggs if it was you!
My problem with the "Icy Self" card is that maybe to a native speaking person they'd know what thaw means but hearthstone is a big international card game. It's a word I never heard in my life and I am basically raised bilingual and I only ever really consume English content. It's just a word that's too uncommon and the context isn't providing any clue as to what it could mean. The card name "Icy Self" doesn't tell me it's something that unfreezes your minion as well.
Loved the video, and would love to see this done more with other creators. The only thing I'd say is for the custom cards you pull from real people maybe credit them. Many of them create more cards and I'm sure would greatly appreciate the shout and kind words. I thought about it because i frequent the CustomeHS Subreddit and i recognized a few of the cards you pulled. Love the video though.
With how impressive AI has gotten, it feels like any argument that relies on "the AI is not smart enough to do this" doesn't really work because you never really know what it's capable of. For stuff like this I always have to go back to "would a human make this?" instead because I understand the thought process of a human. If a card is just not particularly interesting or flavorful enough that someone would go through the effort to make and post it, that's probably AI, or if the vibe has really strong flavor that relies on knowledge outside of the game to make sense, probably human.
See, what's tough about this, is that there are a lot of custom card creators who don't have a good grasp on the kind of cards that are reasonable within the framework of HS.
I think the Big Bad Wolf card could say from and mean it without being a typo as a way to imply that any cards your opponent has that interact with minions that you have have summoned would work for the summons. Probably typo but I can read it with enough cope to say it could be intended.
This is really just a game of "Did a human designer forget stuff (like totems generally having no attack, the totem tag, or the word 'redirect' which has already been used on a Mage secret previously)?" (And yes they definitely do) (I swear I sometimes remake my cards like 7 times because I forget obvious stuff) A card not working or being a dumb card or just a generally bad card doesn't mean it's not a custom card. Look at Trump's custom card reviews and how many he gives cards 1 star lol, and those are the most highly upvoted in each week. You can also see that typos or wordings that do not convey the actual intent are common too
I was flabbergasted that the sentinel card has charge because sentinels generally standby and I would've thought an AI would've been more likely to just slap a random nown onto a card than a human... damn.
@@kevinvoiceactor9694 Especially when it's just random chosen Custom cards... yeah they're on average as good, for whatever definition of good, as an AI card.
shadowblade assassin would say "Permanently stealthed" or something along those lines if it was custom. At least any competent person who knows hearthstone would know that.
For me, Time Warp has a very clunky description, which led me to thinking it was AI. Imo it should read “take an extra turn after this one. Your mana crystals do not recharge.”
Holy Protector is almost like Spellskite from MTG got coverted to HS. And Spellskite was really cool in MTG and it was a solid card I enjoyed playing, so I like what AI was going for.
What I've noticed is that AI cards tend to be generic stuff like "1 damage to all enemies, 1 heal to all friendly" (completely unrelated to what an electric totem would do), they often have no types, the card names have no relevance to what the card actually does (often being generic arcane this, holy that) or they just rip off already existing mechanics (sathrovarr is just a generic demon name and the effect is just the 3 drop that eats your stuff plus a shadowflame, two commonly found warlock class mechanics). In contrast, human generated cards tend to reference something external from the game like the three little piglets, an angry chicken in mage form, a parody on twisting nether, an endless sentinel actually being a minion that revives itself endlessly etc. Occasionally, the line gets blurred when a human makes a boring card (the dentist) or where the AI name randomly gets close to what the card does (the timebender lady, chat was rightfully 50/50 on that). Not to mention a spelling mistake is 100% a human card lol.
19:10 that's crazy that the AI took a card from Magic and made it a bit more fair, with the same name and basically the same effect. very similar casting costs too.
The first one is already broken, 3 mana for a 2/4 healing totem that also deals one to all enemy minions at the end of your turn? And it doesn't even overload or something? Nasty.
I love how Rarran just confidently says that's the wording Reno has when it just isn't at all, Reno says "fully heal your hero."
im stupid
@@Rarran lmao
@@Rarranrarran why did you stop the "I'm 5" bit :(
@@shardgunner4815he turned 6
Well what's also nuts is that you get to run 2 of those bad boys with zero deck restrictions. Imagine blood deathknight with two of those and giga health, you'd have to win by turn 7 or give up on winning by damage. Fucking disgusting.
I think a human might make a custom card like that but they'd at least make it legendary.
Ironically, "divine shield is usually paladin" is exactly why an AI WOULD know that. It's the most common pattern.
well, that's the thing with modern AI, it's so fucking inconsistent that you never really know
I think the biggest giveaway for the custom cards is creative flavoring and complex references to other cards or things. Pot of Blood has all of that. Its a blood card, makes something cost health and it is a pot that draws cards, which is obviously a yugioh reference
Tradeable definitely makes sense on Icy Self - you trade the card away if you have no way to freeze something you'd want a copy of.
Would have been cool if the editor credited the custom cards’ creators after each reveal, otherwise great video!
It was all ai I thin
The second card exists in game right now - it's Sanctum Spellbender. The wording is a bit different, but basically it has that effect and no one plays it.
Genuinely forgot that card existed. How does it work when there's two of them?
@@hugomendoza5665 haven't seen that happen but I'm guessing the effect would trigger in play order. The copy that was played first would retarget the spell to itself, then the second copy would retarget it to itself and then the spell would cast only on the second copy.
@@Actinjsh No, Sanctum Spellbender says "Whenever your opponent targets *another* minion with a spell, redirect it to this."
Another means "a minion that is not Sanctum Spellbender" (Same reason why Flesh Behemoth can't draw a copy of itself)
So if you have two copies in the board and you target one of them, they just don't trigger.
@@paperknigth2263but you can have two of them and an enemy has some minions that he throws the spell onto their minions. also when you have 2 of them and somebody plays a spell onto one of them, the other should take the spell, because he is a different minion than the other one.
I think the fact that this is so hard tells a lot about how bad some people are at making cards.
I immediately knew Pot of Blood was a custom card because of the grammar mistake, I didn't even have to think about it.
I assumed that Fallen Loyalist is a custom card because of the missing period at the end. It just didn't seem like the kind of mistake an AI would make. It might word things in a weird way or say things that don't make sense, but it's pretty consistent with its punctuation
And that's how we know your comment is not ia generated. :p
That icy self card would be so good in sif mage. You just need to have the location on board and on the combo turn you could play sif, use location on sif, play this on sif to get a copy and blast the opponent with either a volley of cheap damaging spells like arcane bolts and the free geyser one, or you could just cast a forged molten rune.
I agree! I also think that the card art looks just like him and imsad none of them said anything. also, there's no way AI could come up with a card pun like "I see self"
Best combination for Lo'Gosh would be "Dormant, Can't attack".
Meaning you suddenly have a stone on your board that you can't even silence or remove for x amount of turns.
Or Dormant for 10 turns :'D
New Reno hero card
I wonder how dormant would work since there’s no counter on the keyword by itself, would it be a standard number? would it be randomised? or would it just never wake up D:
I don't think Dormant would count as a keyword for the purposes of that kind of thing. "Random bonus effect" has been used in this way a bunch of times to exclude Charge as well. "Can't Attack" isn't even bolded so that would definitely not be one though.
If we counted all bold texts as keywords you could get cards that say things like "Battlecry:, you" which would just be weird.
Random bonus effect is what it would be, and that's a defined set of 8 keywords used across multiple sets. It's basically an evergreen effect.
Nor dormant nor can’t attack are keywords. And even if we say these are, the keyword pool of Lo’Gosh would be manually crafted by Blizzard anyway.
About the Lo'Gosh dude, the Dormant Rush keyword actually works, there is the bird that has it and works like that, dormant 2 turns and then you smash it instant
Slimescale Diver has Dormant and Rush also.
If a minion were given Dormant keyword it will be dormant forever since it has to have a condition to wake up.
@@Skrek-qw1jz the Hearthstone devs could make that work, simply by using a dormant effect of other dormant cards, and yes, you could have Magtheridon or The Darkness dormant, but still could have a useful Boulderfist Ogre with Dormant for 1 turn and Windfury, stuff like that
Pot of blood at 3 would give me flashbacks of blood bloom in warlock
Since Xara is an aura, her along with the "open the waygate" quest would actually give you infinite turns...
Strongarm Patroller wouldn't work because you would need to target before the card is on the battlefield and the wording says it has to be on the bf to trigger. Probably someone who plays MTG created this
Next time you get a card reveal, you should do this again, but guess if the card is custom or from the next expansion!
pleaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaase rarran do this wow!!!
But dont expansions have themes? Just see if the card fits the next expansion's theme
Can't imagine blizzard would be stoked to have people favoring an AI or custom card over their new card haha
@@amaze3727 the ai cards would be the same theme
@41:45 I'm very impressed Sathrovarr there is AI. It actually has such a clear flavor. He eats a minion and breaths out its attack as a Shadowflame.
But Sathrovarr is an existing character, and he's a demon. I feel like a human referencing the character wouldn't miss the tribal tag.
I can't believe so many people thought pot of blood was an AI generated card, it's literally referencing pot of greed.
Well I thought holy protector was a reference to spellkite and that turned out to be an AI card.
@@tine1012There is a difference between a card using a mechanic that happens to be in another game and a card as iconic as Pot of Greed being referenced
@@Warpzel65 Spellkite is pretty iconic, it's also an effect not yet printed at all in HS, so I assumed the AI was trained on card games in general, there is nothing preventing people from training the AI on card names from every game leading to pot of greed.
Pretty sure the AI knows about Pot of Greed though, I just asked ChatGPT 3.5 about it and it gave me a flawless answer.
@@tine1012on such a case, since there's a *bunch* of "pot of x", the AI would actually be quite weighed to making more "pot of x" cards.
My read on how 2 Holy Protectors would interact would be based on reading the ability as "Whenever a minion is targeted by a spell, counter that spell and apply its effect to this card".
So, a few scenarios:
2 Holy Protectors, one of them gets targeted - both are affected by the spell.
2 Holy Protectors and a 3rd other minion, the 3rd minion gets targeted - both Holy Protectors are affected by the spell.
You aren't retargeting a spell or moving it. Targeting the spell is a trigger that they both see, one of them counters it, the other one tries to counter it and fails but they've both seen the spell being aimed so they both apply its effects to themselves.
It seems better for duplicating buffs instead of tanking spells.
25:36 I thought about "Pot" "Archetype" from Yugioj, that's why i thought it couldn't be AI.
AI doesn't know Yugioh LOL
"Someone made this card" But you don't know if they took the idea from an AI
Common thread between a lot of the AI cards: The AI is so preoccupied with “can we do this effect”, that it never stops for basic card game design. Yes, you CAN print a minion that regains stealth when attacking face, but you shouldn’t cause it only ever has one play pattern.
You don't think that applies to custom cards such as Big Bad Wolf? The intended play pattern there is extremely obvious. How about the custom Time Warp?
“At 3 mana it’d be fine”
Fast-forward to 3 mana primus, surely nothing wrong there
It would be a highroll draw, the design is not conductive to being a very fun card at its core.
well looks like this one passes the Turing test
it's actually pretty easy to determine ai vs custom. anything that involves context outside of hearthstone is custom, since ai is just generated out of hearthstone data
Some of the ai art here is horrifying. What is that dentist. Nightmare stuff lmao
Does nobody else realize pot of blood is pot of greed from yu-gi-oh?
I really thought the Xara card with the rewind was somebody with some really thirsty art that never fully thought out what the effect would be. Really surprised to see Ai made that one
Shadow blade assassin would probably read “after this minion attacks a hero, it gains +1 attack and returns to stealth” since there’s no reason for it to wait till the end of the turn.
I found that you can usually tell if it is custom made based on flavor. Some of these cards are so thematically fitting that there is no way an AI could ever come up with it. I am also very impressed with the person who came up with that flavor.
33:10 cat turns around.
Card #2 makes sense. If there are two Holy Protectors and one is targeted, the other one takes the EFFECT. The other one is NOT being targeted by a spell; it is only be targeted by the effect of the spell. The original target of the spell is valid and the target of the spell's effect is valid, so no... it could easily be programmed not to bounce back & forth.
And if you have 2 Protectors on board, and the opponent targets a 3rd non-Protector minion?
What if there are 3 minions on board and neither of the two Holy Protectors are targeted, which Holy Protector gets the effect? Both? If both gets the effect the flavor text doesn't really make any sense unless it says something else than "this minion takes it instead"
@@T3n50r Simple. It's chosen at random or assigned to the first one that triggered.
@@synthetic240 That's not simple at all, both of those options changes everything about the card and whether or not you should even include it in your deck. Not to mention it isn't easily understood by new players, or players making a deck around it not knowing how it works until it see play which just means that it's a poorly written flavor text.
Also, if it's random it can be frustrating to keep both on the board not knowing which effect will affect which card, if only the first one triggers you may be left with a 24 minion in your hand or a rather useless 24 minion on board. So, only include one in your deck then..? Not really that simple, then it might not really see much play so building around it doesn't make much sense in this regard. Both of these sounds like a headache to deal with.
The flavor text should be so easy you already know how the card behaves on board when it's in play before you've even played it. Including it in a deck and misunderstanding how it works because of the text is poor game design.
U can deduce that the sathrovarr card was ai cuz it just combined the names of 2 already existing cards into one. A human wouldnt do that but its common for ai (just like with time warp)
Also they missed the Demon tribe on him.
when this guy starts talking, he can't stop until rarran stops him
I think an issue with Timeless Chronomancer is that to my knowledge all legendary minions have an actual name not just a title so it should be [name], Timeless Chronomancer
Da Undatakah is techically not a name, but just a troll way of spelling the word "undertaker", and it's a legendary
edit: also, lady in white
The Jailer ?
AI is difficult to do ethically, but listing the artists you tried to emulate with the training is a good place.
AI is still being underestimated. Some AIs perform better in SATs then most of us. It is certainly able to construct coherent card effects
"I didnt think the AI would put things like Warlock and Demons together" man Ecore thinks these AIs are still stuck on Windows 2000 huh?
On Xara, the Timebender "redo your last turn" in my brain it works like this: If any Battlecry or Deathrattle occured, trigger again if you played like Arcane Intelect for carddraw, do it again, did X minion hit face and survived? (Broken if it would ignore taunts), do it again. Did you play a healing spell on you/minon (if its still there ofc) recast sorts like that. If anybody has more scenarios we could add feel free to coment.
19:35 that card is essentially remove summoning sickness for 6 Mana, that actually could be pretty strong, especially if you cheat the card out somehow. It seems like it would be a fun card to try and make work.
As much as I despise AI art I'm happy you were honest about it
AI causes an issue when it would otherwise take the job away from a real artist. In this case, Rarren would never have paid artists to draw custom art for each of these cards so it never would have mattered fortunately.
@@AroWolfArts yes that's a very good point I had forgotten that. Luckily, as you say, it's likely the hearthstone artists have already received the compensation for the art which is now Blizzard property
@@BGAbazor you forget AI art is trained off of real artists, in this case to recreate Hearthstone's artstyle it definitely had to "feed" and steal from a big number of artists working for Blizzard
@@Davefacechannel Not to mention all the work done by exploited/abused workers to tag/catalogue all the images used in the datasets used to train these algorithms
Xara, the Timebender would probably work just as "Kang" from Marvel Snap.
10:45 It is *really* nitpicky from me, but Rarran's wording isn't exactly the same. "Whenever" implies that the minion gains attack *before* damage is determined, not after, so it works a bit differently.
I'm fun at parties, I swear.
Finally I know who Rarran is collaborating with...
TWILIGHT DENTIST! 5:03
Twilight Dentist | I refuse to believe a human went out and made a dentist card, gotta be AI (frick me ig)
Are you saying that because it looks like Ecore?
@@Arzanthemehgamer They look-alike 😅 I don't follow Ecore
@@CycleMantis Some people need to express their traumas somehow 😃
“Strongarm patrolller” would never work that way, it would either specify what would be destroyed, or it would specify that you could choose what would get destroyed.
Your ecore collabs are the best hs videos period
At this point I THINK THAT
YOU and MarkMcKz are by far *THE BEST* HS "youtubers" at this time.
He has great combo decks and YOU are giving ppl what they want OR what they are asking for.
You are two most popular "hs" youtuber players at this moment.
colab maybe???
I believe the Icy Self card flavor is that you're taking a minion out of its ice encasing that would have the minion's shape, and summoning a copy of it which would be giving life to it's former encasing, which also explains why it's a frost spell, so it's not thawing, it's more teleporting out of the encasing. I don't see any flavor on the trading, I think it's just to help it as a tech card.
Also, kind of funny to think the AI would make such weird, out of place grammar mistakes and thinking it could get the flavor from The Big Bad Wolf right.
Also also, I believe Xara, the Timebender is trying to mimick Toki's adventure hero power. It's worded diferently, and definitely would need some heavy re-wording to work in the real game, but I do think that's what it's trying to do.
Just the random Legends of Runeterra player but I couldnt stop watching it. Being like "hm...yes yes...thats AI" Great Video Idea
For arcane anomoly i didn't pick up on the random mage spell part. But I went with AI because arcane anomaly is also already a card. I don't know how common it is for a custom card to use a name of an already existing card but I feel like people would look up names to see if it exists first.
Pretty sure the my frozen self flavour is that the ice encasing the minion is transforming into the copy.
Personal guesses:
- 7:12 I guessed custom made, just because of how cool it is, and I can't find anything in it that is worded wrong, or something like that.
- 9:28 Pretty obvious AI card, as Rarran said, the text says "whenever this minion attacks", meaning it would get the +1 attack and Stealth before it attacks, which wouldn't make sense. Also, I think it would read "it gains +1 attack and Stealth", not that it returns to Stealth, which sounds off.
- 11:24 At first I thought it was a custom card, but I did notice the "random" word there, which is an obvious mistake.
- 14:23 Honestly no idea, the card itself is terrible, it's just a worse version of Hellfire, so it could be either an AI card or custom made by someone who just made a terrible card. But it being an AI card in the end makes sense.
- 15:52 A custom card for sure, it's way too fun, imaginitive, and logical to be an AI card.
- 17:27 Another hard one, It's a cool idea, like trying to make an "extra turn" card balanced, but the "your mana crystals are empty" phrasing doesn't seem official, and the spell doesn't have an Arcane tag, which I think it should, so I finally guessed AI.
- 20:20 Yet again a hard choice. The card seems good, but I'm not sure if Hearthstone has a mechanic in it that reveals cards, and I'm quite sure that there isn't one that lets the revealed cards stay revealed, meaning you could only see the revealed card once, so I'm going to guess AI. But I guess I was wrong, damn.
- 22:38 I'm going to say custom, this is a pretty great card. It feels unique, interesting, and the phrasing seems to be logical. I honestly didn't even think about the color of the card, so I guess that's why I got it right.
- 24:15 Well, there's a spelling error in the card, but I'm not sure if that's just a human mistake. I'm gonna have to say AI, it's not that good of a card, and I can see the spelling error being an AI error. But it seems I should have stuck with the human error theory.
- 26:26 Oh my god, I don't know, it's just a weird card that would not work in a lot of cases. Like, what if the spell is a spell that targets minions, or if it's draw a card spell? I'm gonn say AI, it's possible that a human made it and didn't just think about cards that don't deal damage and can't damage heroes, but I'd say it's more likely to be an AI error.
- 29:04 My lack of new Hearthstone knowledge is killing me here, because I do not know if "thaw" is a real word that is used in the game. tI also seems like a bad card, because it implies that it only works on Frozen minions, and the card itself doesn't seem to make sense, like, "icy self"? What does that mean, and what does it have to do with thawing yourself and summoning a copy? So, I'm gonna guess AI. But I guess I was wrong, and someone just made a card that doesn't make sense, lmao.
- 31:52 The deciding factor on what my guess is for this card depends on the ordering of the Battlecry. Like, it says "Battlecry: If this is the highest cost highest-Attack minion", which is a very vague, since it brings up the question that could this card even be considered on the battlefield when it uses the Battlecry ability, because technically it isn't on the field yet? I would say no, so my guess is AI. But, again, it seems it's just another custom card that doesn't make quite sense.
- 33:26 An awesome card, it's thematically very cool, but unfortunately, the spelling error of "from" instead of "for" makes it obvious that it's an AI card, at least I hope so, because otherwise it would just be another human error. But it seems like the people who make these cards just can't write English.
- 36:05 Interesting card, it uses the right grammar of the ' at the end, so I'm leaning more into AI. The name of the card not matching the text also makes me feel more confident in my guess.
- 38:04 I'm gonna say custom. The card simply does not make sense, but I feel like it's another human mistake, like, why is the first sentence just flavor text? And how would the card draws even work? Would it draw new random cards off the top, or would it draw the same cards? Idk, it just feels off, so I'm gonna say custom. But no, it's an AI error, which is weird, because I'm not sure where an AI would get the flavor text from.
- 40: 48 Another card that is very poosly phrased. Like, the adding sounds off, and on the last sentence it's very unclear if "its" means the card itself, or the card that got destroyed. So, again, it's just a toss up between this card being a human error or an AI error. Idk, I'm gonna say AI.
- 43:46 I think everything in the card makes sense, so I'm saying custom.
- 44:13 Yet another card that simply does not make any sense, like, what does the "copies" even mean here, so the guess is yet again based on if this is a human or an AI error. Idk, I guess I say custom, it feels more like a human error.
- 46:38 Okay, this is a hard one. The first thing I noticed is that the H in health is not capitalized, which is different to another previous AI generated card where the H was capitalized. Additionally, the card uses periods when listing the effects, which I think is wrong, since I think other cards use commas. Because of these, I'm gonna say it's a custom card, where the creator just made a few mistakes. But no, it was an AI card, which is strange, since the other AI card used a capitalized H, I imagined that the AI would make same mistakes, but apparently not.
This guy is just consistantly underestimating AI.
love how ecore called holy protector unique when it's just a spellbender
The big bad wolf is a great design card, because its referencing to a tale about 3 pigs. It cannot be ai thinking about tales.
xara would have to remove itself after single use. Otherwise you could just infinite cycle until you have whatever card you want. And as even after you get perfect draw, you would still have xara so you could just keep cycling every turn until you get perfect draw for every turn (after turn 4)
Now I remembered Shadowverse had a card "0 mana Extra Turn" and there's 3 of them in the deck. It was funny times.
everytime alex is mentioned for Timeless chronomancer my brain goes 'so the second effect just heals both players back to full making the first effect pointless' I had to look up the wording to stop being confused
The funny thing is that Pot of Blood is actually viable at 5 mana in wild, because it curves right after Lorekeeper Polkelt!
Long format for these is the best thing !!!
Most people who dislike AI Art (like me) mainly have a moral issue with the theft of content for machine learning. Since most images used for this should be of Hearthstone cards, taking art from Blizzard, not independend, perhaps struggling artists. So I think most can tolerate it.
I mean, I consider most AI Art ugly anyway, but that alone shouldn't make anyone take issue with someone using it.
The even more obviously unethical component of AI is how the sample images / training-data have been catalogued by real people in exploitative and abusive circumstances. Think of it like a digital sweatshop
@@CycleMantis Eh, it's always difficult to say which of two misdeeds is worse. I'd say the theft oft fruits of other people's labour, who often struggle themselves (I'm active in online art sphreres and many come from countries where what little they get from western comissions is the best option they have to get through their cost of living) is arguably worse than mistreated workers who at least gone into that relation voluntarily. But I can see the argument.
@@Lysvsyl What? Mistreated workers IS theft of the fruits of other people's labor. Perhaps it is time you actually read about what that sentence means because you do not understand it. The first is a denial of hypothetical profits, the second is a denial of actual profits.
@@Voidkom First off, I don't take people who use 9th grade commie phrasing seriously.
Second: You clearly are not able to understand what I have written. My point is that even if an employer employee relationship is exploitative, it is voluntary in this case. While the theft of art is unconsensual theft. I said that there is an argument for both sides but that I personally consider the lack of consent more evil than exploitation in a consensual contract.
But I doubt that'll convince you, since you sound like you follow an ideology. Reason rarely helps there.
@@Lysvsyl How can you claim to disagree with something you do not understand?
ecore and the dentist really do be look alike
Celestial protector honeslty looks like a card blizzard would add just to "counter aggro decks" by completly removing them from the meta
Mossy Horror moment
Not fully in the twilight flavour, but balance wise, if this was "battlecry: give a friendly minion +2 health then deal 2 damage to it" it could work.
With that effect it could be a warrior / priest dual card. Rename it to "battlefield medic" or something along the lines.
Thank you for featuring clint stevens in your video
the holy protector argument of what happen if multiple of the minion is on board doesn't really make sense since snapjaw shellfighter already have a similar effect, most of the time these effect will have their own logic to prevent bugs happen like the effect can only trigger once in a loop
That Time Warp is a Magic: The Gathering card. It's called Savour the Moment, it's incredibly cheap but all your tapped creatures don't untap either.
What's the point if they can't attack face?
@@markuswelander8551 Half the time you just play that early to get an extra card draw and an extra land. If you have outside effects that allow you to untap though, it's absolutely bonkers for 3 mana.
Need more of this to train against upcooming AI adds and such. I'd like a higher score.
There's plenty of cards that do what Holy Protector does and they don't have a paragraph explaining it.
I COULDN'T EDGE TO THIS VIDEO!! I EXPLODED IMMEDIATELY!! CLEAN UP ON AISLE, MY PANTS!
The timewarp card basically just has overload 10 except you can get back mana crystals. I think it would be printable with overload 10 so you either need very cheap minions or an already developed board for otk's
That would be crazy with overdraft
@@FedericoAOlivieri Well you would need to reduce overdraft to 0 cost
Genuinely surprised at the time warp spell. Seems Blizz should hire the AI for the balancing team.
Private Detective is such BM, just eats your opponent's turn timer.
Can we talk about the fact that the Icy Self card art looks EXACTLY like Ecore, and he goes I have no idea why but this is the only card I don't like. LMAO
6:23 Ecore looks just like the AI art for this card lol
In other card games, Holy Protector isnt that unique but it does have a logic how it works like making the effect not mandatory, etc.
Can tell its an AI card
Thanks Rarran, great video. Love the new ideas and interesting content. Pretty sure I played you in Twist the other day, unless someone else is using your name. Ggs if it was you!
My problem with the "Icy Self" card is that maybe to a native speaking person they'd know what thaw means but hearthstone is a big international card game. It's a word I never heard in my life and I am basically raised bilingual and I only ever really consume English content. It's just a word that's too uncommon and the context isn't providing any clue as to what it could mean. The card name "Icy Self" doesn't tell me it's something that unfreezes your minion as well.
Loved the video, and would love to see this done more with other creators. The only thing I'd say is for the custom cards you pull from real people maybe credit them. Many of them create more cards and I'm sure would greatly appreciate the shout and kind words. I thought about it because i frequent the CustomeHS Subreddit and i recognized a few of the cards you pulled. Love the video though.
I knew Pot of Blood was a custom card because it is an obvious reference to Pot of Greed from Yu-Gi-Oh.
32:40 the moment he confirmed it was manmade i had a panic attack questioning WHY IS THERE A DASH?
I think random keywords would now be restricted to the 8 effects that the Badlands Bandits have.
With how impressive AI has gotten, it feels like any argument that relies on "the AI is not smart enough to do this" doesn't really work because you never really know what it's capable of. For stuff like this I always have to go back to "would a human make this?" instead because I understand the thought process of a human. If a card is just not particularly interesting or flavorful enough that someone would go through the effort to make and post it, that's probably AI, or if the vibe has really strong flavor that relies on knowledge outside of the game to make sense, probably human.
Xara was such obvious AI word salad, I'm surprised chat was split on it at all.
pot of blood is literally a play on pot of greed. I'm surprised so many people thought it was AI
pot of blood : an AI wouldn't make a grammatical error like that
See, what's tough about this, is that there are a lot of custom card creators who don't have a good grasp on the kind of cards that are reasonable within the framework of HS.
i really enjoy your videos with ecore. i like your synergy
ecore do be looking like the guy in icy self at 29:16
I mean, no discussion on the flavor for big bad wolf? Not sure AI would understand the connection to the three pigs, it would be pretty random.
Can we talk about the fact that the AI art for Icy Self was literally just Ecore?
Let’s go new rarran video to start the day
I think the Big Bad Wolf card could say from and mean it without being a typo as a way to imply that any cards your opponent has that interact with minions that you have have summoned would work for the summons. Probably typo but I can read it with enough cope to say it could be intended.
32:06 I thought i was going insane after this played twice in a row
This is really just a game of "Did a human designer forget stuff (like totems generally having no attack, the totem tag, or the word 'redirect' which has already been used on a Mage secret previously)?"
(And yes they definitely do)
(I swear I sometimes remake my cards like 7 times because I forget obvious stuff)
A card not working or being a dumb card or just a generally bad card doesn't mean it's not a custom card. Look at Trump's custom card reviews and how many he gives cards 1 star lol, and those are the most highly upvoted in each week. You can also see that typos or wordings that do not convey the actual intent are common too
I was flabbergasted that the sentinel card has charge because sentinels generally standby and I would've thought an AI would've been more likely to just slap a random nown onto a card than a human... damn.
@@kevinvoiceactor9694 Especially when it's just random chosen Custom cards... yeah they're on average as good, for whatever definition of good, as an AI card.
shadowblade assassin would say "Permanently stealthed" or something along those lines if it was custom. At least any competent person who knows hearthstone would know that.
For me, Time Warp has a very clunky description, which led me to thinking it was AI. Imo it should read “take an extra turn after this one. Your mana crystals do not recharge.”
Holy Protector is almost like Spellskite from MTG got coverted to HS. And Spellskite was really cool in MTG and it was a solid card I enjoyed playing, so I like what AI was going for.
Feedback: Add a counter to your guests guesses like
Correct guesses: 3
Wrong guesses: 2
What I've noticed is that AI cards tend to be generic stuff like "1 damage to all enemies, 1 heal to all friendly" (completely unrelated to what an electric totem would do), they often have no types, the card names have no relevance to what the card actually does (often being generic arcane this, holy that) or they just rip off already existing mechanics (sathrovarr is just a generic demon name and the effect is just the 3 drop that eats your stuff plus a shadowflame, two commonly found warlock class mechanics).
In contrast, human generated cards tend to reference something external from the game like the three little piglets, an angry chicken in mage form, a parody on twisting nether, an endless sentinel actually being a minion that revives itself endlessly etc.
Occasionally, the line gets blurred when a human makes a boring card (the dentist) or where the AI name randomly gets close to what the card does (the timebender lady, chat was rightfully 50/50 on that).
Not to mention a spelling mistake is 100% a human card lol.
19:10 that's crazy that the AI took a card from Magic and made it a bit more fair, with the same name and basically the same effect. very similar casting costs too.
If there are multiple Holy Protectors, it should just choose a random Holy Protector. Hearthstone usually handles these ambiguous RNG cases like this.
The first one is already broken, 3 mana for a 2/4 healing totem that also deals one to all enemy minions at the end of your turn? And it doesn't even overload or something? Nasty.