20:52 CGB is truly a Blue player. Man is thinking with his gut and his mind, but he's gotta play Red for this one and think using his heart. There's no thought behind Blade Flurry, you fool! No gut instinct; no reason can solve this card! There's nothing there but RAW EMOTION. Must hit face TWICE. After they nerfed it to only hit enemy minions, then it became a thinking-man's card. But they did also nerf the cost so it just died.... LOL
Ok, I looked at both, and I'm not really convinced, but like not because it's like, obviously not one or another, but because both are pretty much the same, what's the main difference that justify this? The only that I could spot was the beard, Maly seems to have a beard while Kaly has crystals, although you could easily argue that's a artistic liberty, it doesn't fundamentally change the characteristic... althouh if you just say the original art was said to be Kaly then yeah I could believe it.
If I remember it correctly they did it because there was literally no art of Malygos around and they were both just massive blue dragons so it really didn't matter.
@@Cuestrupaster WoW had a paper tcg before HS even came out and that same art was used for Kalecgos in it. HS lifted a lot of pieces of art from that game, especially for the early sets, but often changed who or what they depicted in the cards.
I'm surprised CGB did not catch on to the core set explanation as magic did the same thing for a long time. Core set 2011, core set 2012 etc which did the same thing of reprinting old cards so they can be legal in standard
I think it's slightly different, since Magic's Core sets were always brand new set releases, while HS's core set is one continuous set that switches a few cards over time. It's functually close enough, but I can see the differences being confusing.
I think for Mind Control Tech, they probably just came to the conclusion that it's a card that punishes you for breaking a rule that you would otherwise have no idea is a rule. It's a "gotcha" whose only solution is to already know that there is a gotcha. Other than to play around board clears, there's no reason to think that playing a 4th dude is taking a risk. Also, since it's random, it's just extra infuriating when you go from can't lose instantly to can't win, just because they stole the one minion that mattered. Also, even if you know about it, it's specifically punishes you for doing something you want to be doing, building out your board. "I guess I can't keep having fun. Gotta play around Mind Control Tech." Kind of funny when you see if the first few times, but what a bummer of a card to keep around forever.
I keep calling 'Easy, Sylvanas was nerfed, because you used to play it with brawl in the same turn!' and I was suprised that nerf was not mentioned here. Then I checked wiki, Sylvanas was nerfed in closed beta, over 10 years ago... I feel old now :(
I think that Rarran's absolutely right about Mind Control Tech. Demon Hunter was the first NEW class they ever added, and it got a lot of absent players to return to the game. I think they wanted to avoid those player's thinking "Hey this is pretty fun, why did I put this game down again?" and then getting MC Teched and going "Oh yeah, THAT'S why."
dude the commander game you did was amazingsuper fun!! i hope i can see you cimo and cgb and roxy next time! i mean i love crim playstyle and he is a really cool dude but i was missing cimo in that game!
Murloc Warleader got me thinking there should be a 2 mana "Removal" spell for Shamans that: *Discover*, Targeted creature turns into the chosen *Murlock* But when played in a Shaman deck, they either are removing a threat/taunt, or, trying to summon a War Leader on your already full board. Sounds appropriate as hell.
i stopped playing hearthstone before mind control tech was hall of famed so i don't know about standard constructed, but during the time i played, in arena specifically, it was the most frustrating card in the world and im glad they shot it.
Sylvanas is almost exactly a card called Keiga, the Tide Star. It's a 6 mana 5/5 blue dragon with Flying, and when it dies you gain control of target creature.
I swear I’m being mandela effected with regards to the year of the Phoenix hall of fame, I swear I even half recall a specific blurb they gave for acolyte of pain. But I can’t find it so I guess it didn’t happen.
Disregarding that, I’m pretty sure the idea behind it was to weed out cards that tend to be recurring problems for some reason or another. Leeroy for otks and burst wombo combos, mountain giants for coming down too early (it wasn’t that long after lpg and conjurer’s calling was abusing it in mage), MC tech for being generally annoying (I’m pretty sure it was consistently being ran in quest shaman at the time), acolyte of pain for being too good of a neutral draw tool mainly in warrior, and I guess spellbreaker cause they didn’t want to worry about silence killing off whatever cool payoff they’d print later (like a rattlegore I’d guess)
M giant and Mc tech could probably be attributed to the same as sylvanas or azure drake. They were in every control deck, it was another card you were worried bout or played round, and it was just their time to go. I never realized they didn't say anything bout why they left.
Having been around at the time, I absolutely guarantee that MC Tech died just because people were tired of it. Playing around MC Tech meant just never fully developing your board, which is... just not fun. It came out *just often enough* that playing that fourth minion was terrifying, and yet was rare enough that usually you were playing around it for nothing; the card was just that scarring when it hit.
The original version is, but there's a different card of Sylvanas with a less powerful version of her effect that was made later where she's wearing her Shadowlands armor that's still normally playable. Many characters get multiple cards or even hero replacement skins based on their Warcraft lore, so you can't always go by a singular one to know how they're represented in Hearthstone.
@@LittlepipMLPless powerful? thats heavily debetable i really cant think of a single way its less powerful than some occasional deathrattle synergy. battlecry mind control is just so much better than deathrattle even if its infuse
Non-HS player here, won't Power Overwhelming also be good for proactively triggering Deathrattle stuff? Or is it only true in theory, but in practice it just doesn't come up?
ye its debetable. warlock has been using it to proc deathrattles for long time but it really never was the main focus of the card or the archetype. its more like a nice bonus when it works
Yes, Warlocks used it on their eggs to trade and then trigger their deathrattle or steal the minion with Sylvanas for big tempo board swings. They also used it with "Destroy minion, deal its attack as AoE" card to clear enemy board. And they also used it as burst with Leroy. There was also a card that ate friendly minions and took their stats, that allowed to bypass the drawback of 1-turn buff. The big flexibility and utility of this card is why it was so widely played in most Warlock decks in the first years of HS and the reason for its removal. The only Warlock deck that I do not remember seeing this was Malygos Warlock, as it only had synergies with AoE spell there.
It's a little wild to me that Azure drake was hall of famed. What was the reason for that one? from what I remember, it's a fine card. Wasn't particularly broken, it was run here or there, but not in like, every single deck or anything.
azure drake was used in close to all decks i can remember way back if you had any good spells rouge was able to use fan of knifes mage had a lot of them paladin lets you use consecrate for more damage warlock had some great use of it druid loved it with swipe and was a draw so it was really just a question of "is there ANY better 5 drops" and not a single one was, and if there was it was normally Legendary's so really easy to just throw azure drake in too has single or 2x has it was just that universal it was scary to leave up felt great/never bad to drop down when it was hall of fame it was really opening the 5 cost slot to more cards and more spell damage was opened up too
...Spellbreaker got HoF'd? WHY? Ok, its a decently stated silence, especially in the days where Ironbeak Owl costs 3, but it's not like decks were running a dedicated silence minion (at least by the time I left HS) for the effect.
CGB said “someone loves these creepy little weirdos” and that really resonated with me cause I still make murloc noises at my girlfriend as a form of communication after playing hearthstone for 10 years and loving murlocs the entire time
I always suspect the true reason that they don't share reasons (when the companies normally do) is because no one who is actually working on the game made those decisions. Kindof hard to justify "I like money" as the reason why you banned a card.
i do wonder if there was some sort of midrange demon hunter that used mountain giant that was too strong in play testing and thats why they famed it. due to the very affordable on curve draw into skull, letting you fill your hand than just do a huge dump on turn 5. that being said games were usually over on turn 5 anyways so its not really a valid reason.
Well, he's not 100% wrong on them caring about Wild. They do nerf the most egregious stuff that comes there, but not much else. Just the most gamebreaking combos. They don't, and also can't, really care about keeping different archetypes viable. Hearing him call Blade Flurry Blade Fury like a dozen times was slowly driving me insane. Also, we do have Immune, which makes the target unable to be targeted by enemies and cannot take damage. It is not something you can put on a minion permanently in general. The one card that does this also destroys your deck and it's 10 mana. As for what the point of Hall of Fame was, it was, in no small part, to take out the overplayed cards, that they also can't really nerf, or really don't want to. You can't mention Unleash the Hounds without also mention that they had **charge**.
And is a battlecry, so is too good with synergy for that, as well as interferes with people who have strong creatures(which are the type of cards people pay money for), has a very strong(if situational, so can't nerf it too hard) effect for a very cheap price(3 mana for removal on a minion, that also gets you that minion, regardless of how strong it is). Of course it was removed, since there wasn't a good way to nerf it without making it useless in situations where it was already bad(mana cost increase), or making it too good of a tempo swing(also including better body with the mana cost increase, but also ruins flavour of the card).
Haven't played a TCG since probably 2006-07 YGO/Pokemon but I enjoy watching how games evolves every now and then (games are way out of my price range). I'll tell you the reason Hearthstone banned Mind Control Tech is because that is tantamount to sorcery and negatively impacted the good christian values of the dev team trying to repent for.... sorry, I can't keep the rambling going.
I love this series but I do kind of wish it was more about "how good was this card" instead of trying to guess specific concepts like the hall of fame which don’t really make as much sense if you haven’t played the game.
Sylvanas being hall of famed was what made me quit hearthstone. Ben brode promised that the set rotation would not touch the classic cards and you could always use them. They broke their promise with Ragnaros and Sylvanas.
Rarran just letting CBG call it blade fury.
He is just evil and wicked like that
like the powerful nine
He is the engagement farming king
Considering he is the king of mispronouncing names, it would be very hypocritical for him to call out others
You think Rarran reads cards? He thought it was Blade Fury too until he read the script
CGB + Rarran is an instaclick 😄
i love watching CGB... on other channels, unfortunately.
@@masansr i just dont like watching CGB's magic stuff, but i like when he's on other channels, even still playing magic
@@GraydenKC Well you phrased that very.. unfortunately.
20:52
CGB is truly a Blue player. Man is thinking with his gut and his mind, but he's gotta play Red for this one and think using his heart.
There's no thought behind Blade Flurry, you fool! No gut instinct; no reason can solve this card! There's nothing there but RAW EMOTION. Must hit face TWICE. After they nerfed it to only hit enemy minions, then it became a thinking-man's card. But they did also nerf the cost so it just died.... LOL
Fun fact for CGB: The art for Malygos actually depicts his successor, Kalecgos
Ok, I looked at both, and I'm not really convinced, but like not because it's like, obviously not one or another, but because both are pretty much the same, what's the main difference that justify this? The only that I could spot was the beard, Maly seems to have a beard while Kaly has crystals, although you could easily argue that's a artistic liberty, it doesn't fundamentally change the characteristic... althouh if you just say the original art was said to be Kaly then yeah I could believe it.
If I remember it correctly they did it because there was literally no art of Malygos around and they were both just massive blue dragons so it really didn't matter.
@@Cuestrupasterthe devs admitted it themselves, it’s the art for like it’s card in the original card game
@@Cuestrupaster WoW had a paper tcg before HS even came out and that same art was used for Kalecgos in it. HS lifted a lot of pieces of art from that game, especially for the early sets, but often changed who or what they depicted in the cards.
@@MrMarnel got it
Bazaar stremar extraordinaire Rarran dips his toes into variety content and discusses HS
Toes
I'm surprised CGB did not catch on to the core set explanation as magic did the same thing for a long time. Core set 2011, core set 2012 etc which did the same thing of reprinting old cards so they can be legal in standard
Isn't it the same thing as what foundations is right now?
I think it's slightly different, since Magic's Core sets were always brand new set releases, while HS's core set is one continuous set that switches a few cards over time. It's functually close enough, but I can see the differences being confusing.
Well, Core set is also just free.
Oh god. Classic blade flurry, forgot it went face. Imagine how nuts that would be now.
Probably not very, to be honest? Not fast enough for wild, and not enough stuff for weapon rogue to get traction in standard.
Quite scary in wild tbh, not that much in standard
I mean it gives post-nerf kingsbane some kind of win condition
It probably wouldn’t see play in today’s game. The game is a little too fast and/or too resilient to damage for pre-nerfed Blade Flurry to see play.
I think for Mind Control Tech, they probably just came to the conclusion that it's a card that punishes you for breaking a rule that you would otherwise have no idea is a rule. It's a "gotcha" whose only solution is to already know that there is a gotcha. Other than to play around board clears, there's no reason to think that playing a 4th dude is taking a risk. Also, since it's random, it's just extra infuriating when you go from can't lose instantly to can't win, just because they stole the one minion that mattered.
Also, even if you know about it, it's specifically punishes you for doing something you want to be doing, building out your board. "I guess I can't keep having fun. Gotta play around Mind Control Tech." Kind of funny when you see if the first few times, but what a bummer of a card to keep around forever.
cgb and rarran back again? just mesa’d all over my falcon
I keep calling 'Easy, Sylvanas was nerfed, because you used to play it with brawl in the same turn!' and I was suprised that nerf was not mentioned here. Then I checked wiki, Sylvanas was nerfed in closed beta, over 10 years ago... I feel old now :(
OMG, it would cost FIVE!? Madness!
I blame Thaurissan for all the times I've heard a caster say "Sylvanas Brawl"
1:40 Bazaar mentioned
We should all jump ship to teach Blizzard a lesson
37:04 the classic mana wyrm, coin, mana wyrm into opponent ff'ing on turn 1 lmao
mana wyrm into turn two mana wyrm coin sorcerer apprentice mirror image arcane missiles
Rarran, I would totally watch you and CGB convert beloved hearthstone cards to mtg cards.
I think that Rarran's absolutely right about Mind Control Tech. Demon Hunter was the first NEW class they ever added, and it got a lot of absent players to return to the game. I think they wanted to avoid those player's thinking "Hey this is pretty fun, why did I put this game down again?" and then getting MC Teched and going "Oh yeah, THAT'S why."
3:13 CGB pulling out the Blue's Clues notebook. You love to see it
CGB would come to hate Power Overwhelming if he played the game for a year before it got removed especially with pre-nerf Leeroy.
This type of video made me play hearthstone again (already stopped, but that's not the point). Keep it up!
I do remember MC tech running rampant through arena at the time. Otherwise your mentioned reasons make sense as well.
hearthstone team dont give a f about arena especially at that time
dude the commander game you did was amazingsuper fun!! i hope i can see you cimo and cgb and roxy next time! i mean i love crim playstyle and he is a really cool dude but i was missing cimo in that game!
Started binge watching this type of content this week. CGB is an absolute treasure of a human. Keep up the good work guys!
Murloc Warleader got me thinking there should be a 2 mana "Removal" spell for Shamans that:
*Discover*, Targeted creature turns into the chosen *Murlock*
But when played in a Shaman deck, they either are removing a threat/taunt, or, trying to summon a War Leader on your already full board.
Sounds appropriate as hell.
The average murloc is so small that you basically just gave Shaman 2 mana polymorph.
Hot diggity daffodil pumped to watch this.
Mind Control Tech was removed for the health of arena. I'm pretty sure that was the only reason.
i stopped playing hearthstone before mind control tech was hall of famed so i don't know about standard constructed, but during the time i played, in arena specifically, it was the most frustrating card in the world and im glad they shot it.
10:55 I do need to call out Keiga, the Tide Star. Six-mana 5/5 that steals something on death.
Classic Hearthstone
This guy is so funny! that power overwhelming rant was amazing!
This feels like revenge for all the commander banlist videos
viscous slitherspear is also just a nerfed version of mana wyrm
Sylvanas is almost exactly a card called Keiga, the Tide Star.
It's a 6 mana 5/5 blue dragon with Flying, and when it dies you gain control of target creature.
I swear I’m being mandela effected with regards to the year of the Phoenix hall of fame, I swear I even half recall a specific blurb they gave for acolyte of pain. But I can’t find it so I guess it didn’t happen.
Disregarding that, I’m pretty sure the idea behind it was to weed out cards that tend to be recurring problems for some reason or another. Leeroy for otks and burst wombo combos, mountain giants for coming down too early (it wasn’t that long after lpg and conjurer’s calling was abusing it in mage), MC tech for being generally annoying (I’m pretty sure it was consistently being ran in quest shaman at the time), acolyte of pain for being too good of a neutral draw tool mainly in warrior, and I guess spellbreaker cause they didn’t want to worry about silence killing off whatever cool payoff they’d print later (like a rattlegore I’d guess)
M giant and Mc tech could probably be attributed to the same as sylvanas or azure drake. They were in every control deck, it was another card you were worried bout or played round, and it was just their time to go. I never realized they didn't say anything bout why they left.
40:35 And the hounds also had charge, even better!
CGB and Rarran have such great uncle nephew chemistry!
Having been around at the time, I absolutely guarantee that MC Tech died just because people were tired of it. Playing around MC Tech meant just never fully developing your board, which is... just not fun. It came out *just often enough* that playing that fourth minion was terrifying, and yet was rare enough that usually you were playing around it for nothing; the card was just that scarring when it hit.
When was this video filmed? Starving is 2 mana again @rarran
As someone who has never played Hearthstone, but has played WoW, I was certain Sylvanas wasn't banned.
Its lore accurate. She has been banned to play the word expansion for all eternity
The original version is, but there's a different card of Sylvanas with a less powerful version of her effect that was made later where she's wearing her Shadowlands armor that's still normally playable. Many characters get multiple cards or even hero replacement skins based on their Warcraft lore, so you can't always go by a singular one to know how they're represented in Hearthstone.
@@LittlepipMLPless powerful? thats heavily debetable i really cant think of a single way its less powerful than some occasional deathrattle synergy. battlecry mind control is just so much better than deathrattle even if its infuse
Non-HS player here, won't Power Overwhelming also be good for proactively triggering Deathrattle stuff? Or is it only true in theory, but in practice it just doesn't come up?
ye its debetable. warlock has been using it to proc deathrattles for long time but it really never was the main focus of the card or the archetype. its more like a nice bonus when it works
Yes, Warlocks used it on their eggs to trade and then trigger their deathrattle or steal the minion with Sylvanas for big tempo board swings. They also used it with "Destroy minion, deal its attack as AoE" card to clear enemy board. And they also used it as burst with Leroy.
There was also a card that ate friendly minions and took their stats, that allowed to bypass the drawback of 1-turn buff.
The big flexibility and utility of this card is why it was so widely played in most Warlock decks in the first years of HS and the reason for its removal. The only Warlock deck that I do not remember seeing this was Malygos Warlock, as it only had synergies with AoE spell there.
The mana wyrm nerf was so brutal. The jump from one to two mana basically took the card out back and shot it in the face
Rarran, you should have them view treasures from solo adventures!
20:55
You have the gut. And you have the mind.
You don't have the talent.
rarran and cgb best combo on youtube rn
I remember Sylvanas being 5 mana and Power Overwhelming being 0 mana.
8:16 @Roffle mentioned?!1?!
i could watch you and Mesa Falcon Guy talk about anything all day ngl
Oh yes! I missed these videos, you and cgb have such a great energy!! Also really hoping youre gonna play liars bar again with the mtf crew 😂
Hmm now that I think about it Mind Control Tech can be used in a Vanndar Control deck since it currently costs 5 mana.
These are my favorite type of Rarran videos. Keep it up!
Blessed Champion ICANT
Wasn't Azure Drake also originally a 4/5 that got nerfed to a 4/4? So doubly whammy there.
i vaguely remember murloc warleader was nerfed because ppl were beating the lich king adventure for the skin with neutral murloc package lol
8:28 I take offense to your accurate comment!
It's a little wild to me that Azure drake was hall of famed. What was the reason for that one? from what I remember, it's a fine card. Wasn't particularly broken, it was run here or there, but not in like, every single deck or anything.
azure drake was used in close to all decks i can remember way back if you had any good spells rouge was able to use fan of knifes mage had a lot of them paladin lets you use consecrate for more damage warlock had some great use of it druid loved it with swipe and was a draw so it was really just a question of "is there ANY better 5 drops" and not a single one was, and if there was it was normally Legendary's so really easy to just throw azure drake in too has single or 2x has it was just that universal it was scary to leave up felt great/never bad to drop down when it was hall of fame it was really opening the 5 cost slot to more cards and more spell damage was opened up too
...Spellbreaker got HoF'd? WHY?
Ok, its a decently stated silence, especially in the days where Ironbeak Owl costs 3, but it's not like decks were running a dedicated silence minion (at least by the time I left HS) for the effect.
Still want to see CGB's reaction on Naturalize. Or even better - cimoooooo's reaction.
CGB said “someone loves these creepy little weirdos” and that really resonated with me cause I still make murloc noises at my girlfriend as a form of communication after playing hearthstone for 10 years and loving murlocs the entire time
Based
I haven't played in years, but I was the guy slinging Anyfin Can Happen OTK Paladin in Wild long after anyone was still doing that.
they're just like me frfr mgrglrglrlgr
something is really wrong with Sylvanas's spine..
New idea for mind control tech (when mct dies the minion u stole goes back to the other board/deck) (mct might be okey at 3 mana again in that case).
I always suspect the true reason that they don't share reasons (when the companies normally do) is because no one who is actually working on the game made those decisions. Kindof hard to justify "I like money" as the reason why you banned a card.
there is a card in foundations jumpstart called woodland liege that is basically a starving buzzard
Blade fury gaming?
i do wonder if there was some sort of midrange demon hunter that used mountain giant that was too strong in play testing and thats why they famed it. due to the very affordable on curve draw into skull, letting you fill your hand than just do a huge dump on turn 5. that being said games were usually over on turn 5 anyways so its not really a valid reason.
🎉Video idea🎉 get cgb to play one of the adventures(dalaran heist is sexiest) with you and let him cook with rarran helping
you know that rabscaian broke cgb if cgb sade blessed champion was hofed
1:40 :) mentioned
Well, he's not 100% wrong on them caring about Wild. They do nerf the most egregious stuff that comes there, but not much else. Just the most gamebreaking combos. They don't, and also can't, really care about keeping different archetypes viable.
Hearing him call Blade Flurry Blade Fury like a dozen times was slowly driving me insane.
Also, we do have Immune, which makes the target unable to be targeted by enemies and cannot take damage. It is not something you can put on a minion permanently in general. The one card that does this also destroys your deck and it's 10 mana.
As for what the point of Hall of Fame was, it was, in no small part, to take out the overplayed cards, that they also can't really nerf, or really don't want to.
You can't mention Unleash the Hounds without also mention that they had **charge**.
CGB is literally everywhere right now,and im here for all of it
Malygos = Trogdor, confirmed
These are my videos that gained my sub, lets go
Wasn't Sylvanus also originally 5 mana?
Bring back expension series with Ecore
Wow, you guys look handsome today!
Starving buzzard didnt even last half a year lol
finally one of those again
Mind control tech was too much rng and would win games on its own if the opponent didnt play around it, very logical ban imo.
And is a battlecry, so is too good with synergy for that, as well as interferes with people who have strong creatures(which are the type of cards people pay money for), has a very strong(if situational, so can't nerf it too hard) effect for a very cheap price(3 mana for removal on a minion, that also gets you that minion, regardless of how strong it is). Of course it was removed, since there wasn't a good way to nerf it without making it useless in situations where it was already bad(mana cost increase), or making it too good of a tempo swing(also including better body with the mana cost increase, but also ruins flavour of the card).
Please rarran do more magic content. 😢
The best cards got nerfed because they were too problematic to wait for them to get hall of famed.
MOOOOOORRRRR
Are we so back?
Haven't played a TCG since probably 2006-07 YGO/Pokemon but I enjoy watching how games evolves every now and then (games are way out of my price range).
I'll tell you the reason Hearthstone banned Mind Control Tech is because that is tantamount to sorcery and negatively impacted the good christian values of the dev team trying to repent for.... sorry, I can't keep the rambling going.
OH YEAH !!!!
I love this series but I do kind of wish it was more about "how good was this card" instead of trying to guess specific concepts like the hall of fame which don’t really make as much sense if you haven’t played the game.
CGB marry me ❤
finally bros back to cooking (not uploading the bazar)
Sylvanas being hall of famed was what made me quit hearthstone. Ben brode promised that the set rotation would not touch the classic cards and you could always use them. They broke their promise with Ragnaros and Sylvanas.
Super early today
Day 374 of waiting for Rarran to play Plants vs Zombies Heroes.
finally a video that's not bazaar
Thumbnail was clickbait, I demand a refund
Finally some better content
Buh
First
First!
Beat you to it