Health professional here. I’ve spent the last 30+ years denouncing quackery, and one of the most common issues I’ve seen is chiros who don’t know how to stay in their lane. From pushing nutrition woo to (now) cracking pet necks and backs, there’s no limit to the ways they repackage and sell their wares.
Surely if animal chiropractors were so confident in their skills there would be multiple double blind studies to show the usefulness of their treatments?
Lmao you know what a double blind study is right? It's one where neither the participant nor the researcher knows who is receiving a placebo and who's receiving the actual treatment. Please explain to me how tf someone would conduct a double blind study of animal chiropractic treatments 🤣 Love when nitwits like you hear a buzzword that you think will make you sound smart or shut down an argument, and instead you just reveal your own ignorance.
Thanks for posting. Years ago (15 +) our vet recommended a veterinary chiropractor for our cavalier king charles spaniel who had degenerative disc disease. We couldn’t afford it so we passed- and we changed vets, as chiropractic for dogs didn’t make sense to us. Your video confirmed our suspicions. Thanks!
I can't imagine doing this to your pet. Common sense tells u not too. Gosh I don't even believe in it for humans. As a former nurse I've seen damage done in people from it! Glad u put this out there! Poor dog!
There is some benefit to manipulating soft tissues and joints. Working the kinks out of sore muscles, taking pressure off from pinched nerves, improving joint movement, etc. But most of the claims of these chiropractors go completely beyond what is realistically possible. And the level of quackery is extreme and can lead to injuries. So, I would go to a massage therapist or physical therapist instead.
This was so painful to watch 😭 That poor baby and the crys!!! I get it. Specialist, tests, possible surgeries and such are EXPENSIVE (pet insurance is a blessing!) but its better in the long run for everyone!
That idiot is doing nothing but hurting the dog. I don’t even know how TikTok works, but he should be prosecuted for practicing without a license and animal cruelty.
Tell us what you think after you watch Dr. Tubio. Not all chiros are the same. One man came and finally got relief after going to 45 chiros before. I had back surgery to fix a herniated disc, and the doctor said he'd fix my sciatica issue, too. Nope. Didn't happen. I had to go to a chiro to fix that.
There is some benefit to it under a narrow set of circumstances. Basically the manipulation of soft tissues and joints to get the kinks out of sore muscles, to take pressure off from pinched nerves, etc. But the level of quackery is extreme, and it's much safer going to a massage therapist or a physical therapist.
My ex husband played college football and he always said "chiropractic therapist" cripple people. If my advice was to avoid human chiropractic treatmets a pet treatment F the "pet chiro"
I think I understand the misunderstanding about his video “proving” the activator works/does something. He’s hearing people say that the activator doesn’t do anything, and he’s taking it literally. I.E, he’s taking it as people saying it doesn’t do anything at all. However, that’s not what we’re saying. We acknowledge that it can do _something_ and it can produce some type of force… What were actually saying is that the activator doesn’t do any of the things that it claims to be doing. So he’s using the video as what he thinks is a big “gotcha” moment, where’s he’s proving it does do something. However, he’s just woefully misunderstood, as no one was ever arguing that it isn’t capable of producing some force. We’re arguing that the force that it produces doesn’t do anything whatsoever that it claims to be doing to dogs spines. Sure it might exert some pressure randomly on the spine, but it isn’t helping or doing what he says it’s doing. It’s certainly not doing anything beneficial for the dog or the dogs spine. Lol
Dr. C. You and your bro, Dr. C, the radiologist are the BEST!!! When will Dr. C # 3 start a site? I've said it b4, your parents did a good job on all 3 of you. I love seeing 🐝 in videos and your wife. You guys are the best. Linda RN, 🇨🇦
Should be illegal. Absolutely nuts that this is allowed when individuals such as yourself who have devoted their adult lives to studying and treating animals agree that this isn’t something that should be done. What a mess.
If any human became acutely paraplegic they would go straight to an ER and not a chiropractor. Can’t believe how unregulated this is. He should be charged with practice veterinary medicine without a license!
I think the reason they seem like they feel better is that their body went through some kind of fight or flight response, which in turn, leads to a temporary ability to get around. Without a doubt that dog will be suffering the same or worse in the next few days.
I know this is a two-year-old post. But i've been taking my dog to a Chiropractor and she really dont like it at all. She has some spondyelosis in her back I thought a chiropractor would help. She is 12. I just want her to feel better. What are your thoughts on laser therapy
I’m just curious- you know how medical docs have to put all these disclaimers where it’s not their patients for confidentiality, does the same apply in veterinary treatment? Or are you able to share the cases you treat specifically
@@shinobi-no-buenoThey do actually. We are not allowed to discuss cases without a clients permission. We may refer to a case (e.g. I had a case of a dog with xxxx disease), but we cannot disclose the patient or client's name or anything that would give away their identity. I'm a vet student, and even at uni if we are caught sharing material on social media of some of the stuff we do in pracs (some involving dissections) we will be severely penalised or kicked out from the vet school. Any animals that are used in dissections are graciously donated by farms, abbatoirs, clients, etc. And we are expected to respect the specimens we receive and not post photos to social media (we can take photos, but only to be used for our personal study).
I'm extremely skeptical of chiros after one told we I just had air trapped between two vertibra and I just needed to be adjusted I had an acute lower lumbar spinal fracture
Ha! Same here. I was sent to one and "Physical therapy" . PT - " Here do 10 of these pelvic thrusts for starters" Me " ahh No, I only had an Xray and I'm telling you something is not right!" . Long story short, I have 3 disc herniations and a fractured vertebrae and all the crap that comes with it , degenerative spine disease etc . This was in 2002 , and the "protocols" haven't changed , at all. Xray straight to PT . Jacking people up on the daily. For me ? I have zero trust in the PT to Chiropractic to the overall Medical industry, it seems Doc's like the one who owns this page are few are far between.
It's really disturbing because the animal can't consent to this unproven treatment and only can react when they're already in terrible pain. Unfortunately, I do understand why desperate owners turn to snake oil like this. Living near one of the US's best veterinary research universities, I've watched every one of my pets get misdiagnosed multiple times, suffer through anasthesia (for imaging if not surgery), and more often than not still die from an ultimately undiagnosed root cause. I appreciate how difficult it is for vets: patients that can't tell you what's wrong and require ansthesia that in old age or illness could legitimately kill them for many diagnostics, not to mention (understandably) not getting the same resources as human medicine, but I also understand emotionally from the owner point of view that when specialists are playing hot potato you want to cling to anybody who says they can help. Maybe regulation requiring a disclaimer of no proof of efficacy for unproven alternative treatments for animals could help, it's not realistic to expect vets to be doctor and therapist. Having said that, I'd probably turn to some holistic vet (with a DVM) or even a spiritual healer or something before I let some unlicensed guy crack my dog's back.
Do you have any videos on acupuncture? I’m a third year veterinarian student with a handful of classmates who are getting certified through the Chi Institute, but I would be curious to hear a neurologist’s thoughts!
I practice in Gainesville and I’m constantly blown away that the Chi Institute is affiliated with UF. It’s absolutely stupid and UF should be embarrassed.
my overall thoughts are that it may work with some specific conditions, but i think its overused overall. having said that, there's basically no risk to it so if clients want to i say go for it (most of the time)
@@DVMCellini One of my objections to its use at the Chi Institute (which is affiliated with UF College of Vet Med) is that it lends a degree of legitimacy to the other, incredibly pseudoscientific things they do there. One of my patients went there for acupuncture and I saw the medical record. It was full of terms like “aqua chi.” There’s other stupidity like sticking needles into a horse’s fetlock to treat colic.
@@DVMCellini , "there's basically no risk"? Money spent on something ineffective is no longer available to spend on something that works. Time spent on something that doesn't work is gone forever; it could have been used for something that actually helps. We wouldn't advise someone with a massive hemorrhage to stop and see a movie on the way to the hospital, merely because movie-watching has "basically no risk". _In that circumstance_ movie-watching is extremely risky.
@@smadaf In all due respect you're taking his comment out of context. He means there's no physical risk as in no risk of immediate serious injury due to acupuncture. Obviously, somebody with no insurance or who is of limited financial means shouldn't waste money on something pseudoscientific like acupuncture. Especially if you're choosing it in lieu of something proven and productive.
No...I'd not ever do chiropractic treatment on any of my dogs....my oldest senior dog gets a massage every other day but that's to ease her muscles...she does get acupuncture 1x a month & honestly these have turned her from a stiff hunched girl who didn't wish to run to a girly who's body is relaxed & who at almost 16yrs old can run freely...plus she seems to enjoy her massage
Double check the sites your getting info from. I just searched and literally the top 8 pages were all ai created, most within the last 5 years. You can tell because they used older version and the pictures/reviews all were very obviously not real.
When you say they improve on their own, do mean with no medical management at all (cage rest, pain meds, etc.)? Or do you just mean that they improve without chiropractic? I did a quick search but most of the articles I found that mentioned spontaneous recovery in dogs also mentioned that they were medically managed so I was just trying to clarify for my own personal knowledge. As a side note, I forwarded your video to the veterinary neurologist who taught me. I just came off my neuro rotation and she feels very passionately about this subject and I thought she would enjoy your video.
I mean both! Both without chiro and no medical management, and without chiro and with medical management. But we generally recommend medical management (crate rest, pain meds, physical therapy, etc). Also who was it and what is her opinion on the matter? I have yet to meet a neurologist who supports it but if there is one I'll be happy to hear what they say.
I’m a DVM in private practice for thirty years. We do see improvement and often return to full function with medical management. We almost always recommend a neuro consult with a specialty practice or at UF, but many people can’t afford it, so we do several weeks of pain control, crate rest, and anti-inflammatory drugs as well as whatever physical therapy the owner can manage. So, just because this dog improved under physical torture doesn’t mean it did anything. It may have even delayed recovery.
The only animal chiro, i would have ever trusted, was Tamme Hanken. And he mostly did horses, but not always 'cracked' something in them but suggested a change in an dog's diet or a change in a horse's shoeing or something like that. In some cases he even didn't do anything, saying the respective animal adjusted good and doing anything would make it 'fall apart' or something along those lines.
Look up morphine in that book under warnings and precautions for pregnant/lactating during OB clinic rotation. That book states clearly in English language what is correct and what is in correct. I have a hard copy here at my apartment I use often to read during stupid stuff on internet and tv that is another 🙄
I wholeheartedly share your views. That makes it weird at family reunions since my brother-in-law and his wife are both chiropractors (fortunately not practicing veterinary medicine without a license though!!). Maybe using crystals could be helpful!!! ;)
I couldnt watch any more after hearing rhe first dog squeal. Can anyone please tell me if there was any conclusion? I wouldnt do this in the first place, but if someone put my dog in as much pain as she was obviously in i dont think i should be held responsible for whatever knee jerk reaction may come from me. Ive been to a chiropractor before for l4/l5 degenerative disc disease with horrible sciatica. He never made it worse but at best provided relief for 36 hours. Ended up having to get surgery anyway. Didnt know this was a thing for dogs.
@@DVMCellini Agreed. I've used highly skilled equine chiropracters on my horses in the past when they were in training for competition. There is notable relaxation in the animals during and immediately after the procedure, but I tend to think it has less to do with spinal manipulation and more to do with muscles/ligaments, i.e., "getting a masage" and stretching. I do follow "Animal Cracker" on YT. He at least has a very, very thorough knowledge of skeletal and joint anatomy.
Just watched a video of a guy hanging on to a horse's neck and had to look into this. I don't believe in chiropractic treatments in humans (I know they can provide short term relief but that's it) let alone a horse or sheep 🤦
Yes, taking a paralyzed Dachshund to a chiropractor before getting a thorough diagnosis is foolish at best. Having said that, I've taken chiropractic care for lumbar spinal arthritis, and it got me back on the job. Just saying.
Hey everyone! Go check out this animal chiropractor on The Dodo channel! One of the stories is that of a dog hind leg paralysis. He got him on all 4 legs after treatments. He was also invited to South Africa to teach chiro.
I took my dog to a chiropractor after some back soreness. I consulted with a neurologist first who ran full test. My experience was nothing like this and it did winders for my dog. No amout of bed rest was going to get him back to normal. Of course he was a mild case but like anything else in life there are quacks willing to make a quacks buck. I would not discount chiropractic care based on this video I would just suggest doing your research and picking a reputable one. My dog loves it and has never cried out in pain like that.
I suggest you take your own advice on doing research and look at studies on the efficacy of chiropracty. There is NO evidence that it works even on humans, and is pseudoscience made up by a guy that claimed a ghost taught him. The practice has caused serious injury and even killed many people. The only area of treatment it has any evidence of usefulness for is back pain relief.
I'm so glad you made this video. I just came across this same guy in a comp made for the dodo. So ridiculous. I don't understand how so many people can think that's a legitimate practice. Link to clip: ua-cam.com/video/jXm7ezFgmz0/v-deo.html
As a human with a disc herniation I was prescribed chiropractic. While I'm clearly not paralyzed (and not a dog), would it be possible for veterinarians to, with the proper training, also treat orthopedic problems in pets with chiropractic therapy? Taking them to human chiropractors seems risky since there's no guarantee they even understand how an animal's skeleton works...
Chiropractor logic: I flicked my spine so now I have scoliosis but fortunately I just flicked it back 😉 then I stubbed my toe so now the bones in my foot are hanging out my arse but of course I just flicked them back in . Then I bit a hard cookie so now all my teeth are misaligned so I flicked them back and they went flying down my throat
Both the owner and “professional” should be charged with negligence. This video is hard to watch bc of the brutal ignorance and the poor Dachshund is in dire pain and most likely getting a further injury. 😬😬
I'd just like to say that there are several things in this video that you've taken out of context. First, the symphysis joints receive nutrition by hydrodynamic lubrication or movement. If there is no movement in the joint it does deteriorate. You assume that there was no workup on this dog while there was extensive workup done by a vet previously indicating a disc herniation. The facilitation of movement in a disc has been shown to decrease herniation sizes in human. The use of the activator was to facilitate faster motion than I was able to produce with my hands. It's a spring loaded plunger capable of delivering force at speeds fast enough to cause muscle GTO's to fire. The reason for the video of the nail was because another person on TikTok claimed that the instrument produced no force which was obviously false seeing that a nail could be driven through the wall. What was found later was that my spring in the instrument was only producing 35lbs of force because the spring was wearing out. All of this to say that your video is taking my videos out of context. If you were to use them in context then apply the more updated videos where both this dog and the one in your newest video are back to 100% quality of life and are walking again when both of their veterinarians recommended euthanasia. If you'd like to do a dual live sometime on tiktok and chat or converse privately I'd love to tell you what I do and why I do it.
I'm going to ask 1 question to start and go from there. That question is - what exactly was this dachshund's diagnostic work up that ended with a diagnosis of a disc herniation?
Imagine if you were working on a human client and they started screaming in agony the minute you touched them. Would you keep going? What you are doing to these dogs is torture. They cannot speak to say "that's too much" or "please stop now." I am bewildered that people actually pay money to have pain inflicted on their pets.
@@labsnabys yes. Every day that I worked I. The VA hospital we had patients in pain. Worked through it and they were better after. I’m sure than this dog would be asking not to be euthanized but that was their other option.
You're presenting a false dilemma - medical management (rest, pain meds, time, physical therapy) is very commonly an option in these patients. This isn't a scenario where only options are 1) multiple thousand dollar MRI and surgery vs. 2) euthanasia.
"First, the symphysis joints receive nutrition by hydrodynamic lubrication or movement. If there is no movement in the joint it does deteriorate" Dachshunds are chondrodystrophic. Their symphysis joints don't deteriorate from lack of movement but from an autosomal dominant mutation (specifically the FGF4-retrogene insertion in dog chromosome 18). Also, other joints besides symphysis receive nutrition from "hydrodynamic lubrication or movement" which I interpret as fancy talk for "synovial fluid swishing around." "The facilitation of movement in a disc has been shown to decrease herniation sizes in human." This dog was clearly severely painful and could have greatly benefitted from intravenous/intramuscular medication before you applied 35 lbs of force onto its sore back. Medical management may be effective and sometimes is the only option for a client, however it can also drastically extend the time of healing and duration of pain. If the dog is a good candidate for surgery and the client is amenable to it, surgery is often the best way to go. Especially in these chondrodystrophic dogs who are usually repeat customers. Finally, @Joren Whitley I'd just like to say thanks for responding so politely to Dr. Cellini's public criticism of your work, it really shows some character!
This veterinary neurologist is very close minded. I think he is threatened by alternative treatments that work. It is obvious that he has no personal experience with any veterinary, chiropractic care or veterinarian care for himself. I take what he says with a grain of salt. It goes completely contrary to any experience that I have with healthcare. Sadly, veterinary care seems to be following the same dismal path that medical care for humans has followed. Pharmaceuticals and too quick to spend money on surgeries. Follow the money straight into the doctors pocketbook.
@@Vecko-t8byeah I’m with you on that like this guy has years of experience and a degree in this yet you want to dismiss his points on an anecdote… like c’mon man make it make sense
Health professional here. I’ve spent the last 30+ years denouncing quackery, and one of the most common issues I’ve seen is chiros who don’t know how to stay in their lane. From pushing nutrition woo to (now) cracking pet necks and backs, there’s no limit to the ways they repackage and sell their wares.
Amen.
It doesn't help that for people, chiropractic is covered by insurance, so it's given credibility it doesn't deserve
Surely if animal chiropractors were so confident in their skills there would be multiple double blind studies to show the usefulness of their treatments?
0 afaik.
Medical research is biased.
Lmao you know what a double blind study is right? It's one where neither the participant nor the researcher knows who is receiving a placebo and who's receiving the actual treatment. Please explain to me how tf someone would conduct a double blind study of animal chiropractic treatments 🤣 Love when nitwits like you hear a buzzword that you think will make you sound smart or shut down an argument, and instead you just reveal your own ignorance.
Thanks for posting. Years ago (15 +) our vet recommended a veterinary chiropractor for our cavalier king charles spaniel who had degenerative disc disease. We couldn’t afford it so we passed- and we changed vets, as chiropractic for dogs didn’t make sense to us.
Your video confirmed our suspicions. Thanks!
I can't imagine doing this to your pet. Common sense tells u not too. Gosh I don't even believe in it for humans. As a former nurse I've seen damage done in people from it! Glad u put this out there! Poor dog!
agreed on all counts!
There is some benefit to manipulating soft tissues and joints. Working the kinks out of sore muscles, taking pressure off from pinched nerves, improving joint movement, etc. But most of the claims of these chiropractors go completely beyond what is realistically possible. And the level of quackery is extreme and can lead to injuries. So, I would go to a massage therapist or physical therapist instead.
This was so painful to watch 😭
That poor baby and the crys!!!
I get it. Specialist, tests, possible surgeries and such are EXPENSIVE (pet insurance is a blessing!) but its better in the long run for everyone!
That idiot is doing nothing but hurting the dog. I don’t even know how TikTok works, but he should be prosecuted for practicing without a license and animal cruelty.
I'm a physical therapist and I am skeptical of chiropractic across the board. I didn't know there was chiro for dogs.
There isn’t….well at least there shouldn’t be.
Look up Animal Cracker "Dr Doug"
Tell us what you think after you watch Dr. Tubio. Not all chiros are the same. One man came and finally got relief after going to 45 chiros before. I had back surgery to fix a herniated disc, and the doctor said he'd fix my sciatica issue, too. Nope. Didn't happen. I had to go to a chiro to fix that.
There is some benefit to it under a narrow set of circumstances. Basically the manipulation of soft tissues and joints to get the kinks out of sore muscles, to take pressure off from pinched nerves, etc. But the level of quackery is extreme, and it's much safer going to a massage therapist or a physical therapist.
Bad enough they are allowed to work on people, but really enraging to see animals being subjected to their malpractice.
agreed. how its legal to practice on dogs without a vet license is beyond me.
My ex husband played college football and he always said "chiropractic therapist" cripple people. If my advice was to avoid human chiropractic treatmets a pet treatment
F the "pet chiro"
Chiropractor industry is so problematic for people and for pets. Great video talking about why you don't recommend it
Thank you for weighing in on this!
I think I understand the misunderstanding about his video “proving” the activator works/does something. He’s hearing people say that the activator doesn’t do anything, and he’s taking it literally. I.E, he’s taking it as people saying it doesn’t do anything at all. However, that’s not what we’re saying. We acknowledge that it can do _something_ and it can produce some type of force… What were actually saying is that the activator doesn’t do any of the things that it claims to be doing.
So he’s using the video as what he thinks is a big “gotcha” moment, where’s he’s proving it does do something. However, he’s just woefully misunderstood, as no one was ever arguing that it isn’t capable of producing some force. We’re arguing that the force that it produces doesn’t do anything whatsoever that it claims to be doing to dogs spines. Sure it might exert some pressure randomly on the spine, but it isn’t helping or doing what he says it’s doing. It’s certainly not doing anything beneficial for the dog or the dogs spine. Lol
Dr. C. You and your bro, Dr. C, the radiologist are the BEST!!! When will Dr. C # 3 start a site? I've said it b4, your parents did a good job on all 3 of you. I love seeing 🐝 in videos and your wife. You guys are the best.
Linda RN, 🇨🇦
Thank you!
Should be illegal. Absolutely nuts that this is allowed when individuals such as yourself who have devoted their adult lives to studying and treating animals agree that this isn’t something that should be done. What a mess.
Yeah I have no idea how they’re able to do this without a vet license.
@@DVMCellini probably because there haven't been heavy lawsuits that threatened a veterinary practice
If any human became acutely paraplegic they would go straight to an ER and not a chiropractor. Can’t believe how unregulated this is. He should be charged with practice veterinary medicine without a license!
unfortunately some people would still go to a chiropractor
You’d be surprised
Thanks for your educated opinion!
Off topic - I must say you & your brothers look sooo much alike. There’s no denying y’all have the same parents!🙃
great job, doc! greetings from 🇧🇷
Thanks for this video. I am in Ireland and chiropractors for horses have been popular here since at least the 1960s, then again so are psychics so....
First I've heard about this being popular and I own horses in Dublin and Wicklow.. never ever considered it or was approached about it
Hearing the dog bark in pain was breaking my heart. I don’t like seeing animals in pain.
lol the intro is accurate
The Chiropractic Antitrust Suit
Wilk, et al vs. the AMA, et al
compiled by Frank M. Painter, D.C
I think the reason they seem like they feel better is that their body went through some kind of fight or flight response, which in turn, leads to a temporary ability to get around. Without a doubt that dog will be suffering the same or worse in the next few days.
When all you have is a hammer, everything looks like a nail.
This made me sick!!!! 🤬
I know this is a two-year-old post. But i've been taking my dog to a Chiropractor and she really dont like it at all. She has some spondyelosis in her back
I thought a chiropractor would help.
She is 12. I just want her to feel better.
What are your thoughts on laser therapy
Often times spondylosis is incidental and not actually causing a problem. May want to get her checked out by a neurologist.
I’m just curious- you know how medical docs have to put all these disclaimers where it’s not their patients for confidentiality, does the same apply in veterinary treatment? Or are you able to share the cases you treat specifically
I can share them if I ask permission and owner says it’s ok. I made a video called “case reviews” a little while ago with some real cases of mine.
I don't think animals have privacy rights...
@@shinobi-no-buenoThey do actually. We are not allowed to discuss cases without a clients permission. We may refer to a case (e.g. I had a case of a dog with xxxx disease), but we cannot disclose the patient or client's name or anything that would give away their identity.
I'm a vet student, and even at uni if we are caught sharing material on social media of some of the stuff we do in pracs (some involving dissections) we will be severely penalised or kicked out from the vet school. Any animals that are used in dissections are graciously donated by farms, abbatoirs, clients, etc. And we are expected to respect the specimens we receive and not post photos to social media (we can take photos, but only to be used for our personal study).
I'm extremely skeptical of chiros after one told we I just had air trapped between two vertibra and I just needed to be adjusted I had an acute lower lumbar spinal fracture
Whoa. Yeah they say that’s the cause of everything which is incredible. Hope things are ok for ya.
Ha! Same here. I was sent to one and "Physical therapy" .
PT - " Here do 10 of these pelvic thrusts for starters"
Me " ahh No, I only had an Xray and I'm telling you something is not right!" . Long story short, I have 3 disc herniations and a fractured vertebrae and all the crap that comes with it , degenerative spine disease etc .
This was in 2002 , and the "protocols" haven't changed , at all. Xray straight to PT . Jacking people up on the daily.
For me ? I have zero trust in the PT to Chiropractic to the overall Medical industry, it seems Doc's like the one who owns this page are few are far between.
It's really disturbing because the animal can't consent to this unproven treatment and only can react when they're already in terrible pain.
Unfortunately, I do understand why desperate owners turn to snake oil like this. Living near one of the US's best veterinary research universities, I've watched every one of my pets get misdiagnosed multiple times, suffer through anasthesia (for imaging if not surgery), and more often than not still die from an ultimately undiagnosed root cause. I appreciate how difficult it is for vets: patients that can't tell you what's wrong and require ansthesia that in old age or illness could legitimately kill them for many diagnostics, not to mention (understandably) not getting the same resources as human medicine, but I also understand emotionally from the owner point of view that when specialists are playing hot potato you want to cling to anybody who says they can help. Maybe regulation requiring a disclaimer of no proof of efficacy for unproven alternative treatments for animals could help, it's not realistic to expect vets to be doctor and therapist.
Having said that, I'd probably turn to some holistic vet (with a DVM) or even a spiritual healer or something before I let some unlicensed guy crack my dog's back.
Do you have any videos on acupuncture? I’m a third year veterinarian student with a handful of classmates who are getting certified through the Chi Institute, but I would be curious to hear a neurologist’s thoughts!
I practice in Gainesville and I’m constantly blown away that the Chi Institute is affiliated with UF. It’s absolutely stupid and UF should be embarrassed.
my overall thoughts are that it may work with some specific conditions, but i think its overused overall. having said that, there's basically no risk to it so if clients want to i say go for it (most of the time)
@@DVMCellini One of my objections to its use at the Chi Institute (which is affiliated with UF College of Vet Med) is that it lends a degree of legitimacy to the other, incredibly pseudoscientific things they do there. One of my patients went there for acupuncture and I saw the medical record. It was full of terms like “aqua chi.” There’s other stupidity like sticking needles into a horse’s fetlock to treat colic.
@@DVMCellini , "there's basically no risk"? Money spent on something ineffective is no longer available to spend on something that works. Time spent on something that doesn't work is gone forever; it could have been used for something that actually helps.
We wouldn't advise someone with a massive hemorrhage to stop and see a movie on the way to the hospital, merely because movie-watching has "basically no risk". _In that circumstance_ movie-watching is extremely risky.
@@smadaf In all due respect you're taking his comment out of context. He means there's no physical risk as in no risk of immediate serious injury due to acupuncture. Obviously, somebody with no insurance or who is of limited financial means shouldn't waste money on something pseudoscientific like acupuncture. Especially if you're choosing it in lieu of something proven and productive.
BTW- my cavalier looked around for that poor crying dachshund. 😢
I couldn’t stand to hear my dogs yelp in pain like that. So sad to see….
No...I'd not ever do chiropractic treatment on any of my dogs....my oldest senior dog gets a massage every other day but that's to ease her muscles...she does get acupuncture 1x a month & honestly these have turned her from a stiff hunched girl who didn't wish to run to a girly who's body is relaxed & who at almost 16yrs old can run freely...plus she seems to enjoy her massage
my heart :(
Nearly every source on the internet I’ve seen is very recommending of chiropractics for animals. What to trust…
🤔 what to do
Double check the sites your getting info from. I just searched and literally the top 8 pages were all ai created, most within the last 5 years. You can tell because they used older version and the pictures/reviews all were very obviously not real.
When you say they improve on their own, do mean with no medical management at all (cage rest, pain meds, etc.)? Or do you just mean that they improve without chiropractic? I did a quick search but most of the articles I found that mentioned spontaneous recovery in dogs also mentioned that they were medically managed so I was just trying to clarify for my own personal knowledge. As a side note, I forwarded your video to the veterinary neurologist who taught me. I just came off my neuro rotation and she feels very passionately about this subject and I thought she would enjoy your video.
I mean both! Both without chiro and no medical management, and without chiro and with medical management. But we generally recommend medical management (crate rest, pain meds, physical therapy, etc). Also who was it and what is her opinion on the matter? I have yet to meet a neurologist who supports it but if there is one I'll be happy to hear what they say.
I’m a DVM in private practice for thirty years. We do see improvement and often return to full function with medical management. We almost always recommend a neuro consult with a specialty practice or at UF, but many people can’t afford it, so we do several weeks of pain control, crate rest, and anti-inflammatory drugs as well as whatever physical therapy the owner can manage. So, just because this dog improved under physical torture doesn’t mean it did anything. It may have even delayed recovery.
Thank you from an epidemiologist lol. Why are so many equine DVMs offering chiro though???
no idea. i need to find and talk to one to learn more.
What about acupuncture? Our neighbors frenchie gets acupuncture treatment when the IVDD flares up.
I recommend acupuncture all the time.
it's just an elaborate placebo.
The only animal chiro, i would have ever trusted, was Tamme Hanken. And he mostly did horses, but not always 'cracked' something in them but suggested a change in an dog's diet or a change in a horse's shoeing or something like that. In some cases he even didn't do anything, saying the respective animal adjusted good and doing anything would make it 'fall apart' or something along those lines.
What relief? That horse looks more like it's confused and wondering why you keep pushing on it.
Look up morphine in that book under warnings and precautions for pregnant/lactating during OB clinic rotation.
That book states clearly in English language what is correct and what is in correct.
I have a hard copy here at my apartment I use often to read during stupid stuff on internet and tv that is another 🙄
Chiropractic care is a sham in people and animals
Mostly yes but not all of it.
For people that is
I wholeheartedly share your views. That makes it weird at family reunions since my brother-in-law and his wife are both chiropractors (fortunately not practicing veterinary medicine without a license though!!). Maybe using crystals could be helpful!!! ;)
I couldnt watch any more after hearing rhe first dog squeal. Can anyone please tell me if there was any conclusion? I wouldnt do this in the first place, but if someone put my dog in as much pain as she was obviously in i dont think i should be held responsible for whatever knee jerk reaction may come from me. Ive been to a chiropractor before for l4/l5 degenerative disc disease with horrible sciatica. He never made it worse but at best provided relief for 36 hours. Ended up having to get surgery anyway. Didnt know this was a thing for dogs.
Hi, I'm curious what do you think about chiropractors for working horses?
I am highly skeptical that you can adjust the spine of animal weighing multiple hundreds of pounds or more, using only your hands.
@@DVMCellini Agreed. I've used highly skilled equine chiropracters on my horses in the past when they were in training for competition. There is notable relaxation in the animals during and immediately after the procedure, but I tend to think it has less to do with spinal manipulation and more to do with muscles/ligaments, i.e., "getting a masage" and stretching. I do follow "Animal Cracker" on YT. He at least has a very, very thorough knowledge of skeletal and joint anatomy.
Do you feel the same way about veterinarians who are chiropractors?
Sort of but not exactly the same.
Just watched a video of a guy hanging on to a horse's neck and had to look into this. I don't believe in chiropractic treatments in humans (I know they can provide short term relief but that's it) let alone a horse or sheep 🤦
I can't believe this is still legal.
Don't call it "adjustment". To adjust is to make right, from "ad" ("to") + "just" ("right"). Call it "manipulation".
Yes, taking a paralyzed Dachshund to a chiropractor before getting a thorough diagnosis is foolish at best.
Having said that, I've taken chiropractic care for lumbar spinal arthritis, and it got me back on the job. Just saying.
Hey everyone! Go check out this animal chiropractor on The Dodo channel! One of the stories is that of a dog hind leg paralysis. He got him on all 4 legs after treatments. He was also invited to South Africa to teach chiro.
No
If it helps the animal what's the problem more then the doctors who subscribe realy expensive medicin and special food lose their earnings?
I took my dog to a chiropractor after some back soreness. I consulted with a neurologist first who ran full test. My experience was nothing like this and it did winders for my dog. No amout of bed rest was going to get him back to normal. Of course he was a mild case but like anything else in life there are quacks willing to make a quacks buck. I would not discount chiropractic care based on this video I would just suggest doing your research and picking a reputable one. My dog loves it and has never cried out in pain like that.
I suggest you take your own advice on doing research and look at studies on the efficacy of chiropracty. There is NO evidence that it works even on humans, and is pseudoscience made up by a guy that claimed a ghost taught him. The practice has caused serious injury and even killed many people. The only area of treatment it has any evidence of usefulness for is back pain relief.
Its animal abuse 🤬
Can't believe these people are allowed to operate....
I'm so glad you made this video. I just came across this same guy in a comp made for the dodo. So ridiculous. I don't understand how so many people can think that's a legitimate practice.
Link to clip: ua-cam.com/video/jXm7ezFgmz0/v-deo.html
Omg I can't watch. The dog started yelping and I had to stop the video. Ugh!
As a human with a disc herniation I was prescribed chiropractic. While I'm clearly not paralyzed (and not a dog), would it be possible for veterinarians to, with the proper training, also treat orthopedic problems in pets with chiropractic therapy? Taking them to human chiropractors seems risky since there's no guarantee they even understand how an animal's skeleton works...
Even humans shouldn't be getting chiropractic
OMG 😢😢😢😢😢
Chiropractor logic: I flicked my spine so now I have scoliosis but fortunately I just flicked it back 😉 then I stubbed my toe so now the bones in my foot are hanging out my arse but of course I just flicked them back in . Then I bit a hard cookie so now all my teeth are misaligned so I flicked them back and they went flying down my throat
Both the owner and “professional” should be charged with negligence.
This video is hard to watch bc of the brutal ignorance and the poor Dachshund is in dire pain and most likely getting a further injury. 😬😬
Does that chiropractor really think he's able to move the bones of a Highland cow?
Sadly, yes.
Please react to "Animal Cracker: Doug Willen".
working on it
this is insane
Yes
Oh Oh The greedy Vets are getting Pissed off b/c Loving Pet Owners choosing Chiropractors over the Greed of the Veterinarian Industry!
Not exactly
you think the pet chiro is going to be free or something?
I'd just like to say that there are several things in this video that you've taken out of context. First, the symphysis joints receive nutrition by hydrodynamic lubrication or movement. If there is no movement in the joint it does deteriorate. You assume that there was no workup on this dog while there was extensive workup done by a vet previously indicating a disc herniation. The facilitation of movement in a disc has been shown to decrease herniation sizes in human. The use of the activator was to facilitate faster motion than I was able to produce with my hands. It's a spring loaded plunger capable of delivering force at speeds fast enough to cause muscle GTO's to fire. The reason for the video of the nail was because another person on TikTok claimed that the instrument produced no force which was obviously false seeing that a nail could be driven through the wall. What was found later was that my spring in the instrument was only producing 35lbs of force because the spring was wearing out. All of this to say that your video is taking my videos out of context. If you were to use them in context then apply the more updated videos where both this dog and the one in your newest video are back to 100% quality of life and are walking again when both of their veterinarians recommended euthanasia. If you'd like to do a dual live sometime on tiktok and chat or converse privately I'd love to tell you what I do and why I do it.
I'm going to ask 1 question to start and go from there. That question is - what exactly was this dachshund's diagnostic work up that ended with a diagnosis of a disc herniation?
Imagine if you were working on a human client and they started screaming in agony the minute you touched them. Would you keep going? What you are doing to these dogs is torture. They cannot speak to say "that's too much" or "please stop now." I am bewildered that people actually pay money to have pain inflicted on their pets.
@@labsnabys yes. Every day that I worked I. The VA hospital we had patients in pain. Worked through it and they were better after. I’m sure than this dog would be asking not to be euthanized but that was their other option.
You're presenting a false dilemma - medical management (rest, pain meds, time, physical therapy) is very commonly an option in these patients. This isn't a scenario where only options are 1) multiple thousand dollar MRI and surgery vs. 2) euthanasia.
"First, the symphysis joints receive nutrition by hydrodynamic lubrication or movement. If there is no movement in the joint it does deteriorate"
Dachshunds are chondrodystrophic. Their symphysis joints don't deteriorate from lack of movement but from an autosomal dominant mutation (specifically the FGF4-retrogene insertion in dog chromosome 18). Also, other joints besides symphysis receive nutrition from "hydrodynamic lubrication or movement" which I interpret as fancy talk for "synovial fluid swishing around."
"The facilitation of movement in a disc has been shown to decrease herniation sizes in human."
This dog was clearly severely painful and could have greatly benefitted from intravenous/intramuscular medication before you applied 35 lbs of force onto its sore back. Medical management may be effective and sometimes is the only option for a client, however it can also drastically extend the time of healing and duration of pain. If the dog is a good candidate for surgery and the client is amenable to it, surgery is often the best way to go. Especially in these chondrodystrophic dogs who are usually repeat customers.
Finally, @Joren Whitley I'd just like to say thanks for responding so politely to Dr. Cellini's public criticism of your work, it really shows some character!
This veterinary neurologist is very close minded. I think he is threatened by alternative treatments that work. It is obvious that he has no personal experience with any veterinary, chiropractic care or veterinarian care for himself. I take what he says with a grain of salt. It goes completely contrary to any experience that I have with healthcare. Sadly, veterinary care seems to be following the same dismal path that medical care for humans has followed. Pharmaceuticals and too quick to spend money on surgeries. Follow the money straight into the doctors pocketbook.
He has not experience with veterinary and yet is a veterinary neurologist? You make no sense friend.
@@Vecko-t8byeah I’m with you on that like this guy has years of experience and a degree in this yet you want to dismiss his points on an anecdote… like c’mon man make it make sense