Ep. 19 How Tom Mounts Affect Sustain
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- Опубліковано 16 лип 2018
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In Ep. 17 we demonstrated several options to control/enhance floor tom sustain that didn't involve applying muffling devices or inside the drum. In this episode, we demonstrate the difference between a Pearl Optimount suspension system and a traditional snare basket for holding a 12" tom as well as some tuning options to consider between the two.
Hosted by: Cody Rahn
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What's your preferred tom mounting system?
Like microphone techniques... The goal is a mic stand with minimum touch of the hardware mount. "Floating" system is preferred.
Snare stand. Honestly, I'm not a fan of the maximum resonance thing. The tom stand gives me enough resonance without needing to slap a ton of moon gel on it
RIMS mounts
I'm honestly torn between the two; for one, I like how low and flat I can put my rack tom when it's mounted and clamped onto my left crash stand (I also like the sustain I get out of it), but I also really like the stability and look of a snare stand, especially with the floating rubber things or the booty shaker foam inserts. The thing with the snare stand is that it's hard to find one that goes low enough to where I can match the height of the rack tom to my snare and be flat. I've taken measures like removing the memory lock and trimming down the post that goes inside the base of the stand, but I still can't quite get it low enough for that nice flat look. Any ideas or suggestions on that?
The new Tama starclassic and Tama star mounts with the quick lock brackets all rubber isolated. Also have the quick lock brackets on the floor Tom legs and the air cushioned floor Tom legs. Just absolutely amazing. I have the swivel wing bass drum mount on my Tama starclassic B.B. hyperdrives and man it is the best mounting system ever no joke. I’ve always preferred bass drum mounting systems tho but whether you get the bass drum swivel wing mount or mount on cymbal stands, the quick lock brackets come with all new generation starclassics and star drums.
Tuning A: suspension mount 1:55
Tuning A: snare stand mount 4:33
Tuning B: snare stand mount 8:14
Tuning B: suspension mount 8:57
This should be pinned!
@@DruGaTecH this video is 2 years old! i don’t think so
Thank you!
Thank you, instead of listening his blah blah blah and camera on his face 99 percent of the time.
just my $0.02: it would be great to immediately A/B the differences in the montage, like repetitive strokes on one mount versus the other, especially when comparing very sublte differences. Oh and also, please do more strokes than just one tap and one medium. Maybe a single stroke roll, some rimshots etc
We'll do some more immediate side-by-sides in the future for comparisons. We kept it to single hits and different dynamics rather than single stroke rolls or rimshots as we wanted to clearly present the sustain of the drum. Cheers!
I completely agree. Even just a single hit as you have done but the different variants side by side would help a lot. It's impossible for a viewer to appreciate the differences when the samples are so far apart.
I watch these vids and wonder if you can ever control for all the variables. The hits on the drum vary, the temp and humidity in the room can change and the heads/rims can settle over time. Even if you used a machine for the drum stroke and an oscilloscope for checking sustain, you'd still have some variation in tone. Anyway, interesting vid.
This was literally the only reason I clicked on this video. That's what the thumbnail suggested imo.
Maybe I missed it but it's a good idea when placing a tom on a snare stand to not tighten the basket around the bottom rim too snug. That tends to choke the sustain. I leave the basket a little open so the tom is resting on two arms and just touching what would be the top or 12 o'clock arm.
Thank you for getting right to the topic - no annoying intro to skip through 🙏🙈
2:55 …I totally agree, …I know that “pulling on the wood” effects my sustain.
😂
By the way, when mounting the tom on a snare stand, grip it by the lower part of the rim, it gives more resonance
Another sweet video. Weird how that works mount to stand and back. I love learning things about my drums I never knew before. It's like I get to fall in love with them all over again. Thanks yall!!
Thanks, Tom! Glad to hear it.
Thank you for your videos, I’ve been playing for many years now, and I still learn from your videos. I use a drum rack and love it. I used to use the Pearl DR1 in the 80’s and use stands only when necessary. I noticed my toms would ground out when they were mounted on a stand. A little tweaking here and there would make them sound decent. The rack system always provided an excellent platform for tom mounting. You guys keep up the good work… thanks
Man, I love this channel. Each video is put together so well.
Thanks so much for your support! We'd greatly appreciate it if you'd help spread the word and share the channel with your drummer friends. Cheers!
Just found you guys. Have to say I rarely comment on videos but you guys deserve kudos! There is SO much information out there and a lot of it is just terrible information. You guys seem to really know your stuff and put a lot of thought into your production; which is appreciated!
1:57 - Naming the microphone model, placement, and (lack of processing) is *brilliant*, and immensely appreciated, as it shows you're being as objective as possible in the process. It seems like such a sensible thing to do and should really be a compulsory feature of instrument-oriented videos, yet this is the first time I've ever seen it.
Makes all the difference! We've got this in the description of our all of our videos now. Cheers!
I put RIMS on my 13" Slingerland tom and bolted it on with a Ludwig tom mounting lug. This was easier than locating the hard -to-find hardware required for bolting on to the consolette rail with the tongue mount on the drum, and did not require any drilling. I was impressed by the sustain I got with the RIMS. I would like to do more for the floor tom, and may try your techniques for that.
Some people insist on having vintage hardware, but it is a hassle to find it and I like the sound better with the RIMS. Sometimes people charge a lot for the vintage hardware, also.
Sounds fuller and better to my ear using the tom mount. But everyone has their own preference. Thanks for doing this video.
Great subject. Worked cartage and set up a large number of kits for a variety of sessions in LA over the years, and this was always a fun, experimental puzzle/process with the vintage kits, especially all the ones modified with RIMS-lots of options. Killer breakdown 🤙🏼
Thanks so much, Jason! You must have some serious stories from your cartage experiences.
Back in the 80's, I use to have a 11 piece Pearl kit, all concert toms 6, 8, 10 ,12, 13, 15, 16, 18, Pearl Brass free floater snare, double bass. I think the toms were made out of fiberglass. I got sick of all the stands so I mounted everything to a Pearl rack, drilling mounts into the sides of all the toms and floor toms. Using hydraulic heads I didn't notice any sustain difference even though they had a fat thud sound with those heads. It was a great Funk, Jazz/Fusion kit!
11 pieces oh god
Really good content as always. Many will not experiment this way and assume there is some issue with the drum when there is a sustain issue versus the tuning or mount. I have noticed with the Pearl Optimount I get even better sustain when I turn the rubber washers upside down on both sides. This is with MMX toms. On my BRX, they have shorter sustain in general so the optimounts are fine stock.
Another great video from you guys . Thanks as always . These videos are extremely helpful and cover a lot of good info. Keep them coming thx again
Thanks, Gary! If you're not already following us on Instagram, we've got additional content that isn't featured in our weekly episodes. instagram.com/SoundsLikeADrum
Thanks for this. Can't wait to try bringing up the reso. I recently tried to switch to a snare stand so I could use all flat base cymbal stands. However my tom was completely choked when compared to suspended mounting.
Thanks for the video. That was really informative.
When I'm using a single rack, I mount my Pearl 12" tom on a heavy-duty snare stand, but I place the rubber arm tips securely into the flanged channel of the Superhoop and tighten it carefully, so the tom isn't all the way into the basket and the lower hoop is not resting on the horizontal part of the rubber arm tips. It is crucial to keep the snare basket arm tips away from your tom's tension rods and the lug 'ears' on the hoops, as cranking up the basket on these parts, or even too near them, will definitely affect resonance and tuning.
As for tuning, I have been using perfect fifths for some time now. I tune the resonant heads a fifth higher than the batters all the way round the kit. This means that, especially if you're using multiple toms, the resonant head of the large rack tom - say a 13 - is going to be the same pitch as the batter for the next tom up - a 12 - and the reso of the 12 will match the pitch of the batter on the 10. This tends to make the whole kit resonate nicely together. I think the reason a higher pitched resonant head sounds better is that when you hit the batter, the first ringing sound you hear is actually the resonant head doing what it does and resonating. Sure, you hear the impact of the stick on the top head immediately, but just after your stick has left the batter - and the top head is still recovering from that strike - it's the bottom head that rings out first. Then the batter head starts resonating. Now, to my ears at least, a higher pitch ring (the reso) resolving to a lower pitch ring (the batter) sounds a lot better than the reverse. It sounds tighter - 'BAWOOM!' - rather than -'BOOWAM!' - if that makes any sense.
P.S. For a perfect fifth, sing 'Here comes the bride' in whatever key you need!
Outstanding video!
Wow guys, this video actually blew my mind! I happen to have the exact same kit as this in a different finish and have always struggled with my 14" hanging floor tom ringing too much.
Today I set my kit up as backline for a festival where I'm doing sound, I tried putting the tom on a low snare stand, and straight away all the excess resonance disappeared! It needs very different tuning like this but sounds great... I had never even thought about how a snare stand would affect the sustain on toms... Now I get to spend the whole day tomorrow listening to my floor tom through a great PA while I mix bands 😀
I always find your videos interesting but this one taught me some very useful stuff. Thanks!!
I wonder if adding floor tom legs would be somewhere in between the optimount and snare stand resonance? It would be great to be able to split the difference between the two if I need more resonance for a quiet gig
The type of legs make a huge difference as well. Take a look at ep. 17 for more on controlling and enhancing floor tom sustain.
Keep up the great work fellas! Love it!
Thanks so much for your support!
Gauger Percussion Rims are simply the best.
If that’s the sound you’re going for. Lots of sustain isn’t always the best for a given scenario.
I’ve been using the DW 6300UL snare stand to mount my rack tom.
Similar to the Pearl floor tom feet, there’s a little space in the rubber which helps promote sustain a lot.
me personally I like my tom on a snare stand . I think it has a deeper tone and it sounds better. I kept switching it bake and forth till I easily came to the conclusion that I did. I am a custom cabinet builder that plays drums. I also re did the flattened drum for new bearing edge , in which I chose 45 degree inside and a round over our side . this helped drum head to sit flat on drum and more skin to shell contact. my 12" tom sounds amazing. actually my whole ddrum dios set sounds great. good video for others to think about.
brilliant vids, brilliant channel, many thx!
Thanks for the kind words!
I prefer the Bass mounted Rack Tom with my vintage Sonor Teardrop kit. The Bass is 20x14 with 13x8 Rack Tom, all 6 ply Beech with Rosewood Veneer, all metal hoops which I’m not certain of the metal, but I’ve never heard a more pure tone from any metal hoops. Another great video y’all!!!
I’ve always played kick mounted or floating Tom set ups but recently played a gig and used the house kit which had the rack tom on a snare stand and I loved how versatile it was. I could have the Tom mounted so much lower and closer to me than if it was mounted on the kick and it was so much more sturdy compared to amounting it on a cymbal stand (floating)
It’s given me the idea to get another snare stand and have a play about with my kit which has kick mounted toms on suspended mounts
This is like the Einstein channel for drummers. Love it!
How come I haven't heard of this channel before? Awesome video!
*Maniacally hitting subscribe*
Help spread the word and share the channel with your drummer and audio engineer friends!
toms on a snare stand - I do remember this from the 60's - I guess things do come and go - and come back around :)
History certainly repeats itself!
Just got a pearl optimount and a tama snare stand(for tom as well).For ages I could never play a kit with tom mounts on a kick drum.Toms should definitely float.🗽🛸
I would love a video on bearing edges! Never really understood the difference.
That’s in the plans!
I had previously experimented with different mounting methods as well. I always thought the tension on the resonant head needed to be changed because every hit puts on a bit of pressure on it for a fraction of a second when it's mounted on a snare stand this creating sort of a short muffle effect. I really don't know but, I did noticed that I had to tweak it to get a bot more reaonance. I also try not to mount it like you did, where the hoop sits all the way down into the stand. Instead, I try to get the bottom hoop's flange to rest on the three rubber tips of the stand and I leave it as loose as I can without it falling from the stand. I don't know if you get what I mean but, I found it helps the bottom head to resonate a little bit more. But, as I said, I really don't know. I just experiment around and stick to what works best for my ears.
All the stuff on this channel is great. Coming from a drumming and recording background.
Thanks so much! Glad you're enjoying it.
I’ve been planning to customize one of my toms with a 1960s slingerland set-o-matic tom holder. This is cause a family friend of ours has been drumming since the 1960s and used a slingerland kit with that mounting system and he’s been telling me about the kinds of results he got out of one of them. He sadly sold his kit a while ago but has been wanting to drum again
I am both
1) a retired full time piano tuner/ repair technician….. and
2) a involuntarily / temporarily retire percussionist and drummer
( my regular day gig has me way too busy… but I plan on correcting that problem)
Years ago I was in a recording studio doing two tasks…
2) playing drums with one of my bands doing acoustic jazz Latin stuff
But first
1) I got there WAY early to to prep the studio’s recently acquired Yamaha Studio Grand Piano.
Please stick with this discussion… it goes somewhere about tone and sustain.
Our goal for the piano was to “ super tune “..( get as sweet a tuning as I could… with emphasis on both a pretty sound but also a tuning that would be as stable as possible… sorry now’s no the time to discuss that part).
But what I found was that the piano needed basic but very important work first…
Tighten all screws, get rid of all squeaks rattles and buzzes .. adjust the key to hammer mechanism ( the action vis “regulation”) adjust the pedals.. “etc”
Which then Lead me into the piano needed “ voicing”…
MOST piano players think that “ voicing” means “hardening or softening the piano hammers”… and although this is “ true”…. Voicing “ the hammers “ is the LAST step in the tone adjusting/ “ voicing” stage… the step BEFORE hammer voicing..is making sure that the strings are “well seated to all of the contact points”…. Think … the guitar strings being well seated in the bridge and the nut… the better they “ seat” ..the greater potential for sustain.. and this can reduce other unwelcome sounds like buzzed and wild overtone.
The owner of the studio expected me to “ needle the hammers” ( sorry..look it up)
But I spent MOST of my time tightening screws and seating strings… then I tuned it… and he was “ concerned” that I hadn’t “ voiced “ the piano”…
I asked him to “ trust me”…
And do a couple of quick recording of the piano at this point…
He was shocked at how much louder and brighter the piano was …JUST BY DOING THE BASICS..of assuring that the vibration of the string had the best chance to sustain..and to transmit all of its energy into and through the bridge ..and to the sound board.
But I was concerned that the piano was now too bright ( too much treble and sustain).
HERES THE LESSON…
He said that for recording and for live mic applications a good tech can always “ roll down the sustain and / or other characteristics…
And Yamahas are known for being brighter than Steinway pianos…. And that they project and “ jump” into the microphone….
He said “ give me all the sustain and brightness we can get…. And he would take out what he didn’t want.
For a tomtom…. I am ALWAYS tuning and adjusting my mounts for full sustain.
THEN…. at the venue… I tune the pitches first and then adjust the bloom when needed …FOR THE ROOM , VENUE and Band/style.
Finally my I have two Rogers toms 12x8 and 13x19…on RIMMS ISO MOUNTS plus two Yamaha Stage Classic 10x8 and 12x 8… with YESS mounts and a Mapex MARS 8x8
ALL of the drums sound “ good” with a LOT of nice round sustain WHEN I hold them by the rim…. But ONLY…the Mapex keeps ALL of that same sustain when they are mounted.
The RIMMS mounts kill sustain as do the YESS mounts.
Heresy? Sure…. But
I want full 100% un-dampened tone…
I started swapping this drum onto that mount..and mixed and matched the Rogers and Yamaha toms… I will send a pic of what worked…. USING HARDWARE FROM LOWES !!!
Love the pearl one 👏👏🥁🥁🇨🇦
Great video!
Thanks!
Very interesting video!
I have a mapex pro that came with 10,12,13 mounted toms and 16 floortom. Toms were rim mount hanging from ball joint holders that were weak. I took rim mounts off toms, they are heavy and put the 10,12 on snare stands above my snare and my 13 tom is used on an offset snare stand to my right replacing the 16 floor tom, it sounds and plays great, love it! Emperor heads on top and bass drum 22 tuned medium high with emad system, the snare has Evan 360 head, but I want to try a Yamaha custom steel for more cut than maple shell snare.
I have a 9x13 mounted on my bass drum with a Slingerland Set-o-matic, and I recently added an 8x12 next to it mounted on a snare stand (vintage Tama, offset basket). Same vintage for both drums - and if I hold them suspended by the rim, the sustain for each is about the same. The Set-o-matic mount damps the sustain quite a bit, but the tom on the snare stand is just DEAD. I've been thinking about a suspension mount for the 12, or possibly both toms. Might try Booty Shakers though. Looks like a cool hack. I never thought about being concerned there might be too much sustain! Great video. :-)
I personnaly use a snare stand with booty shakers ; huge sustain = good for me. The only downside is that, having a big bass drum, it takes the rack tom even further away from the floor tom and when you get back to bass drum-mounted rack toms, being more centered, you can really feel the difference and watch your hands fly between one and the other. In the other way round... you start weeping.
And, as usual, perfect video.
Booty shakers? What be this? :)
They are different types of foam pieces created to isolate the drums from the hard surfaces they are supposed to touch (whether it'd be the arms of a snare stand you put your rack toms on or the floor when it comes to floor tom legs), resulting in a big increase of the sustain.
To be perfectly thorough, it actually is the name of the brand that makes the isolation devices but it has been used as a common name ever since.
I like the Gauger RIMS mount, mainly because it doesn't stress the shell, and because you can feel the entire drum respond at every dynamic level. It works great for acoustic jazz gigs--as well as with loud rock bands in noisy dive bars with little or no P.A., where I need as much volume, sustain and wide open tone as I can get in order to compete with guitar amps. If I played more in close-mic'd situations, then I might think about less sustain/more muffling, etc...but then I'd be at the mercy of a duct tape-wielding sound guy (likely with questionable ears), so I'll just stick with the dive bars. ;-)
Great video and channel! Also mounting a tom on a snare stand by placing the basket's rubber tips just under the flange in the hoop will give you a whole other sound as well.
Thanks! Absolutely- we demonstrate that method as it applies to floor toms as well as a method of sustain control without tonal alteration in Ep. 17. Cheers! -Ben
Funny thing is, when I had my Pearl Vision VB with a plastic wrap, the 12" and 13" rack Tom's sounded better on my snare stand vs the ISS mount that came with the drum. I guess it does depend on the heads and tuning as well, (Evans EC2 clear and G1 for me). Plus mount your snare with a tom mount for more resonance and foot clearance on your rack! This especially helps with quick double bass work
I’ve mainly used suspension mounts, but I’ve began to favor direct to shell mounts instead. It does a similar job as the snare stand, I feel.
I typically tune higher for that 60s jazz tone. It doesn’t need to sing for days, as I prefer a woodier, more percussive sound that speaks and gets out of the way. I like something unique sounding even if it isn’t what is “optimal”.
Suspension mounts were not developed for bebop players, they were developed for those who needed a low, fat sound. If you’re not going for that sound, your decision makes perfect sense.
My old Yamaha RC’s with yess mounts I had to be careful weather the yess mount arm would touch the shell often I found that the smaller Toms preformed better to me if I had contact however, on my larger toms I would get strange overtones if the arm was touching the shell so smaller toms touching and larger toms off the shell was good for me and they sounded the same to my ears. Strange that that small point of contact would produce sympathetic overtones. I also used to remove two insulating washers from the bottom of my free floating snare one each side at the snare strap exit. My set of big R Rogers mid 70’s was had something like 7/8” - to 1” tube through wall and all I had to do was tune away overtones. Which I couldn’t do with the RC’s. Every 16x16 floor Tom I had required external mufflers. Often a cocktail napkin covered in gaffer tape. Funny little quirks. PS: never owned double braced hardware never saw the need. Well this is what old men do ramble on sorry.
THANK YOU
You’re quite welcome!
Awesome videos! I'm curious if you can find a difference in tone between a virgin bass drum and a tom mounted bass drum...future vid?
Nice drum
Hey! This is the video I wanted you to make!
Excellent! If there's enough interest, we may do some more comparisons of alternative mounting systems in the future. Cheers!
Good comparison video...bass mount..Basket.. cymbal stand comparison would be nice too
Great video
Thanks!
I have a Pearl Masters 12" tom just like this one mounted with optimount, and I'm experiencing a big difference with the sustain comparing the drum off the mount holding it by the rim and on the mount. It sounds like the fixation on the stand is choking the drum. The first tom is a 10" and it sounds amazing either way. I've tried a higher tuning but there's still a notable difference. I've run into the same issue with a 12" Tama tom some years ago. I hope you can help me out.
Great channel by the way.
Had the same issue with my 12" pearl Session Studio Select tom. Today I removed the optimount and put the tom on a very cheap snare stand that allows the drum's bottom hoop to sit rather loosely on it. Got so much more sustain now, doesn't sound that choked anymore! 😊
This is a great video btw guys, really interesting to see the differences.
I would be intrigued to see some content just on tuning in general - while I've had good comments for years, and understand tuning fundamentals, I feel I've never fully understood what constitutes a 'good' tuning or benchmark to start from - what is a high tuning to me might not be to someone else for instance, and the relationship of the top and bottom heads in getting a decent sound I don't feel I've ever fully grasped.
At the moment, I play an old Mapex kit that doesn't have isolation mounts on the toms and I tune my batter heads only a little above their lowest resonant note. I then take the reso heads and match them in pitch. With EC2 batters, this gets a nice deep sound, but arguably compromises attack/definition and feel. I listen to a lot of metal and rock stuff and they seem to have higher tuned batter heads, but they seem to be able to get a depth and punch that I simply cannot attain if I try the same thing.
Looking forward to your next vid!
Hey there! Firstly, I'd probably point you (if you haven't gone there already) to our older videos about tom and snare tuning and see if any parts of those are helpful with what you're experiencing. That said, I can offer a couple of general comments specific to what you're talking about. Firstly, I think you're right about the issue of deep sound vs. lack of articulation and that is a thing that has to be addressed, at least as far as finding a middle ground that gets you the best of both. The largest issue here with regards to the sound you're after is that what you hear from both records and live performances is going to be a processed sound, anywhere from a little to a LOT. This can also include triggered sound-replacement stuff to bolster the acoustic sound of the drums (I feel like in metal this is mostly a kick drum thing, but I hear it happens in all sorts of recordings after the primary tracking is done), and the acoustic sound of the drums has to at least be compressed a fair bit to cut through the mix the way they need them to (which is also where some of that depth and punch come from that you're hearing - good compression and EQ will really accentuate both of those factors). Regardless of all of this, I can say for sure that a slightly higher tuning will project the tone of the drum more than if you're going for its lowest possible pitch. Honestly I'm not super concerned 'good' or 'correct' tuning, apart from having each head in tune with itself - It's such a personal preference thing. For instance, one of my favorite jazz drummers here in NY tunes his drums unbelievably high, but as a listener I didn't notice that they were that extreme until I went up after a gig and checked them out - they worked for him the way he needed and he sounded comfy and confident, so it didn't even occur to me that there was anything unusual there even though I heard them minutes before. Now having said all that, I think that with the tuning scenario you're using now, you'll probably get a little more depth if you raise the resonant head up maybe a quarter-turn (or a little less) in comparison to the batter, and also experiment with taking the entire drum up around a quarter turn in general, just to see what that gives you in terms of tone and attack. You should get more warmth and projection out of the drum this way, while still retaining good attack. Hope that helps!
On my drum set I have tom that is drilled and it is mounted on kick drum. Floor tom is standard domestica vulgaris 16 inch drum that sits on 3 legs. I only had problems with choked snare drum cause it is one hell of a drum to tune.
recently I mounted a tom by having the tom on a tom mount on a clamp that you use to hold cymbals onto a cymbal stand and it is at a perfect angle suprizingly
I recommend Booty Shakers for the snare basket and the rack tom will be resonant as if it was in a RIMS mount.
Used a 13x14 Tama tom upside down on an Air Ride Stand (no Star-Cast Mounting system used as the tom mount wouldn't have worked properly with the stand). More sturdy than using the mounting system to mount the huge tom on a cymbal stand with a tom mount, and better placement than on the 26" bass! Maybe the mounting system helped the drum resonate more but the tom moved around a lot more as well. More "normal" size rack toms sounded as good on a standard snare stand for me as on a bass drum mount, it just depended on individual drums. This was a decent video regardless:)
i have made my own suspension system , before sonor, to my peals.i didnt like the sst system neither the optmiount. so i took the pearls bt-3 tom bracket,drilled three holes in the shell and i used vidration dumpers between the shell and the bracket .perfect sustain and easy to tune and change heads
all the glorious old timey drums had the worst mounting systems and sounded awesome. Lotsa marketing and graphs are good sales tools. What exactly did you use between the shell and the mounting hardware?
I feel like there is some great information here, but I would like to see a little more of the video dedicated to showing the actual sustaining of the drums. In each section it was only struck a couple of times at a piano and sort mezzo forte dynamic. Would just like to see a LITTLE more is all, but great stuff all around!
So a wider dynamic range would have done it for you?
Sounds Like A Drum Yes I would have liked to have seen more dynamics so we could really get an idea of the drum's tone. Thanks for the reply btw!
Looking for maximum sustain, the same sound I get holding the drum by the rim after tuning, I bought four Optimounts, when they became available, for my 1996 Pearl Masters Custom toms (8, 10, 12 14). I stopped using them after a couple gigs because they choked the toms so badly. The Optimounts are adjustable; I tried virtually every conceivable setting, with no satisfactory results. Those drums came outfitted with Pearls ISS mounts, which were only marginally better sounding. However, I experimented with the ISS mounts by using them inverted, mounted upside down on the bottom rim - HUGE difference, the toms really sing, with very long sustain. I have since passed that kit down to one of my sons. Next kit was a 2014 Mapex Saturn IV with SONIClear mounts. Those also choked the drums horribly bad. So, I bought ISS mounts for the Mapex rack toms, mounted them upside down (using a Gibraltar rack and Pearl short tom arms) and again, the drums really opened up. The floor toms on the Mapex kit were also choked; fixed that with 1/2 inch cymbal felt under each of the feet. Passed that kit down to another son. Next kit, a PDP Concept Maple, no issues with sustain, very satisfied. Floor toms sound amazing! Tried the PDP floor tom legs on the Mapex kit - even more amazing, no felts needed! So I bought two sets of PDP floor tom legs for my son. Next son asked for the PDP; looking for a new kit now.
Good!
I can't believe you're putting this video up today because over the weekend I just changed out my Tama Starcast mounting system because after years of using them I finally determined that those mounts actually choke the drums and I went to the Pearl optimount system and I have much more sustain and the drums sound 100% better. I've never used a big rack Tom up front and mostly used a 10 so I never noticed the choking issue that much but over the years I've been using a 12 or a 13 upfront and have not been happy with the sound and recently did some experimentings and determined that those mounts do in fact choke the drum. Also the pearl is much more solid and the drum feels better under the stick. Couldn't be happier. Found the parts used so it didn't break my back as far as expenses. Anyone out there using Tama starcast Tom mounts and are not happy with your Tom sound, you may want to give the pearl mounting system a try.
Very interesting! Might be worth a comparison video of different suspension mounting systems in the future. Glad to hear that you've found an option that meets your expectations for how your drums should sound. Cheers!
I disagree with you about the Tama mounting system.
Mhmm...i own 2 Tama kits, both have the starcast mounting system, and i never had an issue with the system. I must disagree with you my friend.
Nathan Walsh I know a RIMS style mount that attaches to four lugs can choke a drum if the hoops are 1.6 mm flanged which can flex enough to cause vibration issues. Tama diecast hoops are rigid enough to support the weight of the drum and have never choked any of my drums. I always check the influence of the suspension mount 2 ways while tuning a drum. First hold the drum by the hoop and hit it. Second hold the drum by the tom mount and listen for any choking of the sound. Once you have the drum mounted a number of things can cause the drum to choke, but it might not be exclusively the mounting system. Tama Starcast old OR new style are one of the best mounting systems in my experience on all sizes from 8" to 16".
Joe Rico
I've done everything that you've talked about and I'm sorry I'm going to disagree with all of you. I don't like the star cast mounting system and it's just a preference point. I like the sound of the optimount system that's made by Pearl. That's just my opinion. Keep in mind that I do a lot of recording for other people and microphones don't lie. I put each mounting system under strict conditions and recorded all of them and the pearl sounded over all the best. Also I used the star cast system for over a decade so it's not like I hated it but for some reason certain drums did not sound very good and once I changed the mounting system the overall tone was much much better. Again it's an opinion kind of like cheeseburgers, just because I like one brand of cheeseburger doesn't mean it's the best. Cheers and take care ya'll.
I'd be interested to hear your thoughts on different types of snare stands.
Different snare stands for mounting toms or for snare drum use?
Oh sorry, I meant a snare stand's effect on a snare drum.
I'll be That Guy who asks what it's like to put a typical snare drum on a RIMS-style suspension mount. (It should be possible to get the snare into a normal snare playing position using a floor-standing tom stand.)
I love a proper Tom mounting system...(I play Tama) I love the sustain and power I get from it. I can't stand the way a tom looks on snare stand, nor the flat tone I get from it.
Really confused by the beginning of the video because I have Pearl Export toms with the optimount system and it just chokes the ever loving bejesus out of them. By contrast, I also have Tama superstar toms using the starcast mounting system and they resonate for days. Am I doing something wrong with the optimount, or is the starcast system just that much better?
Terrific video. When using a one rack tom configuration, I’m using a snare stand. This is done more for aesthetics admittedly as tonal differences are negligible. My DW tom/snare stand has booty shaker-type neoprene devices on the grips which work as advertised. For two rack toms I go with a double tom stand offset. This is done mostly for my preferred ride cymbal placement as opposed to any sonic considerations.
The stand itself really does make a massive difference. Got a tama stand which completely deadens the drum and takes out all the response and low end, compared to my yamaha which actually gives more resonance and tone than the suspension mount. Maybe due to the harder material on the tama's basket?
When you place the tom on the snare stand mount are you tightening the basket until it is actually gripping the drum? if so, that is going to stifle the drum. By leaving the basket somewhat lose makes a huge difference to the resonance!
Oh absolutely, you definitely want it gently cradled, not cranked down. Great catch!!
i like to run a dual suspension mount on my PDP kit, because i play with my kit set up offset with my toms infront of my snare. this lets me mount them on my 16 crash stand a cleans up the floorspace on my kit.
What do you think about mounts that are directly on the Tom shell?
Yes im chasing the sound in my head.
I have a Gretsch Catalina club kit which I mount the tom to the bass drum
Would you always put the full drum in the basket? I tend to switch between different ways of putting it in the basket, for example 2/3. 2 beams where the rim is in the basket and 1 beam where it's hanging on the tip of that L beam. Less contact with the stand = more sustain. What are your thoughts on this?
Hey there! I generally set them flat in the basket but if I’m caught with a snare stand that doesn’t have an offset basket I might do something like what you’re describing. Whatever works! :) -Cody
Pressure on the snare stand claw also changes sustain. I'd not advise a lot of pressure but little bits make a difference.
Absolutely. You have to balance the pressure applied by the snare basket with the contact of the bottom hoop on the rubber arms. Certain stands don't do such a great job of holding a 12" tom.
FYI Put your tom on a vintage style snare stand and it will sustain like normal. Tama makes a really nice one!
What's the general consensus on concert toms/reso-less toms at SLaD? I use them as my mount/rack toms because I enjoy shorter resonance with more attack. This was inspired by Danny Carey's use of large roto toms to increase the cut and attack of his mount toms.
Hey there! We're gonna get into that soon actually, almost made it into this video :) - General consensus here is that they sound awesome and are a sound you can't replicate with heads on both sides. I love Danny's use of the Roto's for sure, and I also love all of those old photos of guys in the 70's putting their tom mic's up inside of their concert toms - built-in isolation!
I prefer the snare stand. I have a kit with the RIMS mounts as well and there is just something I am not in love with. I am wondering if switching from S-hoops to diecast, like on the Pearl would have any effect?
Hey there! It really depends, what about the sound isn’t working for you?
On the sound side, I can get them to a good sound without using moon gel, but it seems to be a struggle. Generally I run into what was encountered at the end of the video with the weird warble during the sustain and then have to go lug by lug to quell it. I ended up just throwing pinstripes on the kit, where as my other kit, with a 13 (ambassadors) on a snare stand is far easier to tune, and historically, I have had a terrible time with 13s. Also, I find them too heavy and just a pain to get the rack tom in position I truly like. They came with the kit, every drum has zero holes except for tone controls.
Yeah man.
Yo @sounds like a drum- what are your thoughts on the Ludwig ATLAS tom mounts?
We don't really have any experience with those mounts so we can't speak to their performance.
What's the reason for the Animation Effect added to the Drum Strike?
It’s just a character visual.
I'd wanna know the comparison of mounting it on a bass drum vs mounting on a cymbal stand vs mounting on a snare stand
Hey there! Additional comparisons like this will be something that we plan to include in our forthcoming comparison series but we need your support to help make that possible. Please consider joining our Patreon: www.patreon.com/soundslikeadrum
Will sound be effected if the tom is placed right above the bass drum? With a 1 inch clearance
Place a drum directly over another surface will start to inhibit some of the resonance but, depending on the scenario, the difference may be quite subtle. Try rotating the position of the drum on the stand and hitting it to see what it sounds like in different positions. -Ben
@@SoundsLikeADrum thank you Ben. Your videos are awesome!!!
Something about sustain, Sometimes you don't want too much sustain, so you have to be careful. I played a friend's DW floor tom that had so much sustain that I couldn't play two notes too close together because you couldn't hear the notes as the drum just sustained far too long. If you like playing fast rolls or rudiments, too much sustain won't translate each note well.
For sure! That's one of the reasons why we made Ep. 17. Definitely give it a watch if you haven't already.
Tom on my snare stand 13” Tom . I like to change it around.five piece to a four piece
Do pearl still do where the tom has a rod shoved right through the side like they used to
They only mount drums that way with their lowest level starter drums as far as we know.
It was why I was never into pearl,
But thier snare drums and hardware never disappoint
Curios if you have ever tried to use a signal generator to find the resonant frequency of a drum shell and then tune to reso head to that frequency. I did some garage mad science attempting this but did not have much luck with my chicken wire and mayonnaise solution.
We've received a request to do a demo of this- finding the fundamental resonant frequency of a drum shell and compare the sound of the drum when it's tuned to the frequency vs. others. Definitely something for the future!
Sounds Like A Drum awesome man can't wait
The shell is a speaker cabinet. Doesn't matter much.
can you guys make an episode on tuning toms to their fundamental note?
Are you referring to the fundamental frequency of the drum shell?
yeah. the note that you can hear if you tap the shell lightly. Where its supposed to have the "best" resonance/sound possible for the shell.
That’s certainly worth a demo!
What do you guys think of DW drums?
Overall or with regards to their mounts?
Overpriced
Overall, I personally still like a 1989 wood Ludwig kit better. I have a vistalite, a Sakae Pac-D, TD-12s V-drums, and the newest, a tiny Sonor Martini kit.
I like the new deep snare of DW I saw, and I never thought I'd capitulate from my beloved Ludwig 402 Supraphonic.
Last time I saw a DW kit, I'm surprised to say, it wasn't that expensive overall. Vistalite was like 32 shells only. Last DW was like 22.
Pure shit
Amazing how technical drums can get. Somebody is gonna figure out the snare stand for a high Tom thing.....and make a lot of money....maybe it's my calling.
There are a couple companies that have released snare stands specifically for this purpose, allowing for a bit more resonance through a cushioning system in the snare basket.
Hey...I know Echo Bloom!
Just fuckin read my mind!
How to tune low for 13 x 8 snare?
Ep. 6 in our series should help you with that.
Was hoping you would put on some booty shakers. I just bought some and they're in the mail. I hope they really do make a difference
There are all sorts of different aftermarket products and alternative mounting methods that we could dive into (and may cover in the future) but we wanted to simplify the conversation a bit for this video. Looking forward to hearing your thoughts on the booty shakers!
They absolutely do ; you can sleep on both ears.
Great video , thanks SLAD . And thanks to everyone else for the varied and informative comments , I learned something ! I play 1up 2down with a snare stand but I’ve got a better idea how to get a more even balance of tuning , now . Nice !
I'd love to see Mapex saturn V or IV toms with wood hoops.. That'd look awesome (I believe).. If somebody could send me a video or pictures of something like that I'd be obliged!
We'll have to save that for our upcoming Pinterest account; Looks Like a Drum 😉