Actually thanks to some dialog from Reload (that if I remember correctly is said by Aigis if you talk to her on a certain day). Cerberus being Koro’s ultimate persona is ACTUALLY true. She says something along the lines of “Koromaru was the only member of sees to have 2 theyrgys from the beginning, I wonder if this is because he had his moment of realisation prior to joining”
I never saw that one, but I do remember like Yukari or Mitsuru or someone commenting on it in Tartarus and just being like “He has two theurgies. Why? Ob’m know…”
That's not true. You can have this sort of experience without changing personas. The mechanism of an evolution is one has a change in their resolve. And Koromaru has vehemently defended his resolve to never change in many instances. His loyalty to his master is simply that strong. He has stated to not wanting to forget that regret he had, because he couldn't protect him. Cerberus is that symbol for him. The symbol of his power to defend his master's home. Play PQ, he and Shinjiro refused to evolve their personas but simply awakened a new power within them, similar to how Prime personas (Like Telos) work but retaining their initial form. Besides, the fight where you found him is when he awakened. Mitsuru would have found him out since she scans the area almost every night for 10 years otherwise.
@@raphaelcoprada4637 Bro goes through all of this even though what OP said is true because i have literally seen this conversation myself. Id personally trust 3 Reload over Q
Well yes the conversation happened. But immediately jumping to conclusion to say "oh he had an evolution already" while using this as evidence is completely illogical and frankly, incorrect. When it has been stated to not be the case. Ignoring the given information doesn't make it correct all of the sudden. Personas doesn't have evolution as a requirement to become stronger. Only strengthening your current resolve. And Koromaru is one big example of this for so many times. Using gameplay analogs like him having nulls already doesn't count as evidence. Because of course he has those already, his persona doesn't evolve so he needs it already for gameplay reasons. While this info given is not indicative either due to how the idea of evolving personas doesn't have a definitive reason to apply with what's given. And again, the timeline doesn't really add up. Mitsuru have years to be able to scout out Koromaru, since SEES during that time period targets the irregular shadows outside of tartarus. If Koromaru was a user at that point, he would be found easily by her. But that's not the case. That's because he awakened at the moment when they found him at the shrine, as the game shows.
I think a fun ultimate persona for shinji would of been like Achilles. It hasent been made into a persona or smt demon yet and would be a fun parralel with ceaser
There's an artist on Twitter (kia_shie) who did a really good design of an Ultimate Persona for Shinji that was Janus. You can find it if you search "Persona Janus" on Twitter. I really like it. It's unique but also keeps the visual tie that connects it to Caesar.
@@strain42 the art looks nice but it just becomes an object. But the idea of a p4a design of shinji with more scruff being a chef that hits people with a stopsign is awesome. Major kamen rider chaser vibes and shizuo hiwajima
The Ultimates in P3 are fantastic to me. Messiah has grown to being one of my favorites for protagonists, just due to the storytelling told through his design. Trismegistus is still peak after all these years. Juno has grown on me so much. The peacock motif in the wings, and possibly the mask, is excellent, as well as the color scheme. Athena might still be my favorite from P3. That shield is just excellent.
I still consider Cerberus as Koromaru's Ultimate persona, due to it having two Theurgies like the Ultimates in this game. It does kinda make me curious on if they got third tiers, what would they be?
Maybe I'm just being boring and uncreative, but I imagine a lot of the third tiers would just be upgrades/renames of the Ultimates they already have. Like Isis being Aset, Juno being Hera, Messiah being Kristos, Cerberus being Kerberos, Caesar being Julius, etc. That's kinda how 4 did it and it mostly worked.
@@strain42 oh yeah, 5 followed that trend too, with them being the real names of the historical figures or real historical figures that inspired the fictional characters.
That's...actually a really good point. With Reload introducing the Eiga spells to P3 you'd think they could've given him a distinct Curse elemental damage move or something. Or heck, just let him keep Door of Hades from Persona 5. Very weird!
Hopefully I'm not the only one who doesn't like instant death skills, for that very reason I use him. Yeah I would like a unique dark skill for Thanatos.
Funny how p3 personas helped me in my philosophy cñasses. Like orpheus telos, telos being something akin to "the end of something/the objective of a thing" which is key to understanding stuff like final cause and the like. Besides all thta, im happy Messiah is getting the spotlight as he deserve, probably my favourite persona for a protagonist.
I wish megaten uses the persona 3 cerberus design more then the one head cerberus we all see. I mean they do have one in devil summoner i think but the persona 3 cerberus is my favorite version of that demon/persona. But i also wish SMT uses the persona designs one day maybe in DX2
It's always really weird to me when I see designs that were created for a specific story purpose or character just get treated like a normal demon. Like the MMO game had Hayagriva from DDS and like...yeah, I couldn't see it as NOT Harley. Like if Orpheus's Persona design ever appeared in like Dx2 and was just treated like any other demon that'd be super weird for me. Can't really explain why.
Orpheus Telos is considered an Ultimate Persona for Makoto Yuki, thanks to Persona Q2, so it is just as viable as Messiah, since Kotone (FemC) wields him in Q2, and Makoto uses Orpheus Telos
It actually REALLY bothered me that they did that. Like I was already annoyed that Kotone didn't get a unique Telos, but then yeah, Q2 was like "Makoto swaps from Messiah to Telos and Kotone gets Messiah" and just like...why not let Makoto keep Messiah and just give Kotone Telos and also actually make her Telos distinct this time. They had two chances at FeMC Telos and both of them ended with NOT FeMC Telos!
@@strain42 I assume it's because they didn't want to make a new design (or even alter Telos' model). So they gave Makoto Telos, since his design matches with the male Orpheus, then gave Kotone the more unisex-looking Messiah so there wouldn't be any discrepancies about her Persona's apparent gender.
"Orpheus Telos is considered an Ultimate Persona for Makoto Yuki," its not in pq1 it uses messiah, and messiah is a fusion of thanots and orpheus, telos only exists when you finish all social links as a bonus, pretty much in any canon material you seem messiah, even in the end credits of p3. there is like no reason orhpeus telos should be the canon "Ultimate" persona considering thanatos and orpheus are the character's "base" personas.
1:56 here is the thing messiah being makato’s ultimate persona plays into him mirroring takaya who is the false Messiah spreading lies to bring the downfall of humanity and makoto does defeat death by sealing it away which Jesus also beat death just in a different way so for what makoto ending is his final persona makes sense
I’m not saying it doesn’t make sense. I’m just saying they could have called it something different. Khristós, for example, is basically the Greek word for Messiah, adheres to everything you just said, and would have stuck truer to the primarily Greek themes of the rest of the cast. I acknowledge that it’s a minor nitpick on my part, but it’s just how I feel about it
@@strain42 yeah, I mainly used this as a way to talk about takaya and makoto dichotomy ,if that’s the correct term, because I don’t see a lot of people talk about it
hey, I was meaning to ask that for a while, what war your ranks for Valjean, Pandora and Pithos from Persona 5 strikers? edit: I just checked, di haven't talked about the persona 5 perosne, sorry
Yeah, I haven't gotten to 5 yet. Though I probably won't talk about those three when I do 5. My plan is to eventually just do a ranking video on Side Games. So the video where I talk about Valjean is also where I'll talk about like Ariadne and Warrior Zeus and stuff.
Yeah, Yoshizawa I’ll probably include when I do P5 for the same reason I did Metis with P3. The only one I’m not sure on yet is whether to do Marie and Kaguya with P4 or in the side games. Technically Kaguya debuted in Golden, but the only time Marie has used her was in Ultimax.
My ranking (no telos just assume hes #1 bc hes the guy) Thanatos: A+ Messiah: B(never was a big fan) Isis: C Trismagistus: S, especially in HD the colors just POP Caesar: A- Artemisia: S: Way big glow up from base persona Juno: D(feels like it did not change despite knowing it did) Kala-Nemi: S+ Athena: B
I forgot to mention it in this video, but I LOVE that Lucia goes from being blindfolded to Juno having like...almost too many eyes XD it's a really nice visual evolution of how Fuuka grows as a character.
@@strain42 oh its definitely a great improvement but for me somehow i can never point the change out until someone says it, idk if thats bc fuuka isnt in battle or i wasnt paying attention to the awakening lol I didnt even see the eyes lol
obvs you're gonna do vids on all the P4 and 5 stuff, but maybe a future ranking vid of ultimate arcana personas? 🤔like the ones you gain access to upon completing social links
I'm not sure how official this is, but I've always referred to those as like "Ultimate Personas of the ________ Arcana" so like Thor is the Ultimate Persona of the Chariot Arcana, but Athena is Aigis's Ultimate Persona...who happens to be of the Chariot Arcana lol
I *BELIEVE* so. Like they do look slightly different between IS and EP but I believe in Japanese they have the same name and are supposed to generally be the same Persona, more or less.
Actually thanks to some dialog from Reload (that if I remember correctly is said by Aigis if you talk to her on a certain day). Cerberus being Koro’s ultimate persona is ACTUALLY true. She says something along the lines of “Koromaru was the only member of sees to have 2 theyrgys from the beginning, I wonder if this is because he had his moment of realisation prior to joining”
I never saw that one, but I do remember like Yukari or Mitsuru or someone commenting on it in Tartarus and just being like “He has two theurgies. Why? Ob’m know…”
@@strain42its true, I remember someone saying exactly that about Koromaru
That's not true. You can have this sort of experience without changing personas. The mechanism of an evolution is one has a change in their resolve. And Koromaru has vehemently defended his resolve to never change in many instances. His loyalty to his master is simply that strong. He has stated to not wanting to forget that regret he had, because he couldn't protect him. Cerberus is that symbol for him. The symbol of his power to defend his master's home. Play PQ, he and Shinjiro refused to evolve their personas but simply awakened a new power within them, similar to how Prime personas (Like Telos) work but retaining their initial form.
Besides, the fight where you found him is when he awakened. Mitsuru would have found him out since she scans the area almost every night for 10 years otherwise.
@@raphaelcoprada4637 Bro goes through all of this even though what OP said is true because i have literally seen this conversation myself. Id personally trust 3 Reload over Q
Well yes the conversation happened. But immediately jumping to conclusion to say "oh he had an evolution already" while using this as evidence is completely illogical and frankly, incorrect.
When it has been stated to not be the case. Ignoring the given information doesn't make it correct all of the sudden. Personas doesn't have evolution as a requirement to become stronger. Only strengthening your current resolve. And Koromaru is one big example of this for so many times. Using gameplay analogs like him having nulls already doesn't count as evidence. Because of course he has those already, his persona doesn't evolve so he needs it already for gameplay reasons.
While this info given is not indicative either due to how the idea of evolving personas doesn't have a definitive reason to apply with what's given.
And again, the timeline doesn't really add up. Mitsuru have years to be able to scout out Koromaru, since SEES during that time period targets the irregular shadows outside of tartarus. If Koromaru was a user at that point, he would be found easily by her. But that's not the case. That's because he awakened at the moment when they found him at the shrine, as the game shows.
I think a fun ultimate persona for shinji would of been like Achilles. It hasent been made into a persona or smt demon yet and would be a fun parralel with ceaser
There's an artist on Twitter (kia_shie) who did a really good design of an Ultimate Persona for Shinji that was Janus. You can find it if you search "Persona Janus" on Twitter. I really like it. It's unique but also keeps the visual tie that connects it to Caesar.
@@strain42 the art looks nice but it just becomes an object. But the idea of a p4a design of shinji with more scruff being a chef that hits people with a stopsign is awesome. Major kamen rider chaser vibes and shizuo hiwajima
The Ultimates in P3 are fantastic to me. Messiah has grown to being one of my favorites for protagonists, just due to the storytelling told through his design. Trismegistus is still peak after all these years. Juno has grown on me so much. The peacock motif in the wings, and possibly the mask, is excellent, as well as the color scheme. Athena might still be my favorite from P3. That shield is just excellent.
For how good Messiah is, it surprises me I couldn't find clearer, better artwork of him online.
I still consider Cerberus as Koromaru's Ultimate persona, due to it having two Theurgies like the Ultimates in this game. It does kinda make me curious on if they got third tiers, what would they be?
Maybe I'm just being boring and uncreative, but I imagine a lot of the third tiers would just be upgrades/renames of the Ultimates they already have. Like Isis being Aset, Juno being Hera, Messiah being Kristos, Cerberus being Kerberos, Caesar being Julius, etc. That's kinda how 4 did it and it mostly worked.
@@strain42 oh yeah, 5 followed that trend too, with them being the real names of the historical figures or real historical figures that inspired the fictional characters.
We could get 3rd tiers with episode aigis coming up
Unlikely, since that would involve changing the story quite a bit, but I guess not impossible.
Definitely wish that they gave thanatos a exclusive curse skill so I'd have a reason to use him over alice's die for me 😭
Also I love the fact that Kala-Nemi has star projectors in his shoulders like how asteria had them on her head
That's...actually a really good point. With Reload introducing the Eiga spells to P3 you'd think they could've given him a distinct Curse elemental damage move or something. Or heck, just let him keep Door of Hades from Persona 5. Very weird!
Hopefully I'm not the only one who doesn't like instant death skills, for that very reason I use him. Yeah I would like a unique dark skill for Thanatos.
Oh hey, Strain! We used to talk back on Facebook and GameFAQs, surprised it too youtube so long to recommend me your videos
i'm kinda curious. what are your thoughts on Stregas personas
I’ll eventually cover them in a video focusing purely on antagonist Personas
Funny how p3 personas helped me in my philosophy cñasses. Like orpheus telos, telos being something akin to "the end of something/the objective of a thing" which is key to understanding stuff like final cause and the like. Besides all thta, im happy Messiah is getting the spotlight as he deserve, probably my favourite persona for a protagonist.
Messiah is probably my favorite of the Protagonist Ultimates. Satanael is pretty cool too, I suppose.
I wish megaten uses the persona 3 cerberus design more then the one head cerberus we all see. I mean they do have one in devil summoner i think but the persona 3 cerberus is my favorite version of that demon/persona.
But i also wish SMT uses the persona designs one day maybe in DX2
It's always really weird to me when I see designs that were created for a specific story purpose or character just get treated like a normal demon.
Like the MMO game had Hayagriva from DDS and like...yeah, I couldn't see it as NOT Harley. Like if Orpheus's Persona design ever appeared in like Dx2 and was just treated like any other demon that'd be super weird for me. Can't really explain why.
Messiah is technically a Roman figure
I'm level 11, which are the best for starters?
For MY Personal Ranking,
8.Ken’s
7.Akihiko’s
6.Yukari’s
5.Mitsuru’s
4.Fuuka’s
3.Junpei’s
2.Aigis’
1.Minato & Kotone’s
(Messiah>Thanatos>Orpheus Telos)
Orpheus Telos is considered an Ultimate Persona for Makoto Yuki, thanks to Persona Q2, so it is just as viable as Messiah, since Kotone (FemC) wields him in Q2, and Makoto uses Orpheus Telos
It actually REALLY bothered me that they did that.
Like I was already annoyed that Kotone didn't get a unique Telos, but then yeah, Q2 was like "Makoto swaps from Messiah to Telos and Kotone gets Messiah" and just like...why not let Makoto keep Messiah and just give Kotone Telos and also actually make her Telos distinct this time.
They had two chances at FeMC Telos and both of them ended with NOT FeMC Telos!
@@strain42 I assume it's because they didn't want to make a new design (or even alter Telos' model). So they gave Makoto Telos, since his design matches with the male Orpheus, then gave Kotone the more unisex-looking Messiah so there wouldn't be any discrepancies about her Persona's apparent gender.
"Orpheus Telos is considered an Ultimate Persona for Makoto Yuki,"
its not in pq1 it uses messiah, and messiah is a fusion of thanots and orpheus, telos only exists when you finish all social links as a bonus, pretty much in any canon material you seem messiah, even in the end credits of p3.
there is like no reason orhpeus telos should be the canon "Ultimate" persona considering thanatos and orpheus are the character's "base" personas.
1:56 here is the thing messiah being makato’s ultimate persona plays into him mirroring takaya who is the false Messiah spreading lies to bring the downfall of humanity and makoto does defeat death by sealing it away which Jesus also beat death just in a different way so for what makoto ending is his final persona makes sense
I’m not saying it doesn’t make sense. I’m just saying they could have called it something different. Khristós, for example, is basically the Greek word for Messiah, adheres to everything you just said, and would have stuck truer to the primarily Greek themes of the rest of the cast.
I acknowledge that it’s a minor nitpick on my part, but it’s just how I feel about it
@@strain42 yeah, I mainly used this as a way to talk about takaya and makoto dichotomy ,if that’s the correct term, because I don’t see a lot of people talk about it
Well Jesus WAS Roman.
Also i constantly forget that thanatos doesn't have a lightsaber thanks to your comic all those years ago
hey, I was meaning to ask that for a while, what war your ranks for Valjean, Pandora and Pithos from Persona 5 strikers?
edit: I just checked, di haven't talked about the persona 5 perosne, sorry
Yeah, I haven't gotten to 5 yet. Though I probably won't talk about those three when I do 5. My plan is to eventually just do a ranking video on Side Games. So the video where I talk about Valjean is also where I'll talk about like Ariadne and Warrior Zeus and stuff.
@@strain42 fair enough, so tsukiyomi will be on the side games video too, and Yoshizawa's persone? they will be on the P 5 video?
Yeah, Yoshizawa I’ll probably include when I do P5 for the same reason I did Metis with P3. The only one I’m not sure on yet is whether to do Marie and Kaguya with P4 or in the side games. Technically Kaguya debuted in Golden, but the only time Marie has used her was in Ultimax.
@@strain42 it can go either way, it is your call
I just realized it junpeis ultimate persona looks Apollo from p2 third tier from if you really think about color scheme wised at least
My ranking (no telos just assume hes #1 bc hes the guy)
Thanatos: A+
Messiah: B(never was a big fan)
Isis: C
Trismagistus: S, especially in HD the colors just POP
Caesar: A-
Artemisia: S: Way big glow up from base persona
Juno: D(feels like it did not change despite knowing it did)
Kala-Nemi: S+
Athena: B
I forgot to mention it in this video, but I LOVE that Lucia goes from being blindfolded to Juno having like...almost too many eyes XD it's a really nice visual evolution of how Fuuka grows as a character.
@@strain42 oh its definitely a great improvement but for me somehow i can never point the change out until someone says it, idk if thats bc fuuka isnt in battle or i wasnt paying attention to the awakening lol
I didnt even see the eyes lol
Hey Strain42, when are you going to rank all the initial personas from persona 4?
I don't have a specific date picked out or anything, but I'd assume with the rate I'm going I'll probably get to it sometime this year.
alright keep up the good work as always
obvs you're gonna do vids on all the P4 and 5 stuff, but maybe a future ranking vid of ultimate arcana personas? 🤔like the ones you gain access to upon completing social links
those change between games
Wait, if these are the ultimate personas, what do you call the personas you can then fuse when you finish a single social link?
I'm not sure how official this is, but I've always referred to those as like "Ultimate Personas of the ________ Arcana" so like Thor is the Ultimate Persona of the Chariot Arcana, but Athena is Aigis's Ultimate Persona...who happens to be of the Chariot Arcana lol
Hey, Strain42, is Maia Costom the same persona as Maia Prime?
I *BELIEVE* so. Like they do look slightly different between IS and EP but I believe in Japanese they have the same name and are supposed to generally be the same Persona, more or less.
@strain42 so they are the same then?
What are your thoughts on strega Personas
Not to give too much away from the future Ranking Antagonist Personas video, but I like Medea, think Hypnos is okay, and kinda hate Moros.