I’m the scapegoat. This video makes me feel sad because you are describing my family and childhood. It’s strange to realise that everything I went through… and the PTSD I now have… is down to one simple thing: personality disorders. I went no contact with my family last year - at the age of 41 - and, even though it is hard and lonely, it isn’t as hard and lonely as being part of such a toxic and violent group.
Thank you for your words. It's devastating to have a narcissistic family. Recently cut off sister & son. Praying hard for my son. Please pray for Dean. 😢
@Cornusnuttallii- This is a lovely suggestion. I have four cats instead of one dog. I’m a singer so I often sing outside in nature where trees are the audience.
the small child version of you would be so proud. that’s what i always remind myself, i think back to the intense feelings of confusion and unfairness i perceived as a child through certain moments that i told myself i will always remember as i longed for justice. i’m 23 now, cutting off my sinister narcissistic cult of a family has given me that justice, it’s been 9 months now and i haven’t had one second of regret. we are free now, to find yourself and your own tribe ! good luck to you
No one ever understood. My family looked to everyone on the outside like the picture of perfection. With that image, which my mother viciously guarded, others actually treated me with hostility and jealousy! I couldn't believe the chasm between truth and what was sold. Thank you for exposing this hidden phenomenon.
I know what you mean, some other people thought we were the perfect family, in truth it was a cult, ruled over by a weak father and mean threatening mother. My whole early life was a lie.
@@adkc19 Both my parents had their own issues, which they never dealt with, and had no problem piling on me. I'm sorry for everyone who goes thru these kinds of imprisoned hells of perception. Really too many interlopers make things worse, because they only THINK they understand. This is where the great Jean-Paul Sartre and his work in existentialism and the absurd helped me when I was younger. In cases like these, especially with rabid entitled flying monkey interlopers who really understand very little, "hell is other people."
"Conflicts are solved by either ignoring them or shutting them down immediately. Problems aren't addressed in a fair, respectful, understanding way." "Not just to maintain control but to avoid having to deal with deeper feelings to avoid emotional closeness." "Divide and conquer" "The narcissist pits the other family members each other by sowing confusion, fear, envy, and chaos. That division makes it easier for them to control everyone." This is my narc mother. She pitted her 5 children against each other in order to feed her narc self. I consider myself an adult orphan. I want nothing to do with any of them because she gets them to do her dirty work while bawling her eyes out over me "hurting" her by calling out her bad behavior.
This video was really helpful. Thank you 🙏🏾 At age 45 I finally called out my Mother in front of the whole family. With full awareness of the consequences - punishment through being ostracised, gas-lit and smeared. I am once again, the common enemy. Except this time, I won’t be going back! Scapegoat and proud 💪🏽🤙🏽❤️
I married the scapegoat in a narcissistic family. I believe he married me because I supported him, saw through the narcissist & wasn’t afraid to stand up to the narcissist. But over time I then became the scapegoat for my husband and his family. All the in-laws are the scapegoats in that family and my husband threw me right under the bus when he saw the opportunity to be accepted by having a target. The family has this huge network of “family friends” who have all been picked specifically because they feed the narrative that the family is amazing and it is everyone else. Overtime I saw how my own support system was stripped away and the focus became him and his family and their friends. We are divorcing and I feel a great relief
I’m glad you’re getting out. And yep- you’ll be tossed right under the bus if it gains them the acceptance they desperately want from their family a(scapegoat or not). My husband has done the same to me and I see the ending of it being like yours …..
Wow Melanie that really strikes a massive chord with me. It is a great point you make about the in-laws becoming the scapegoat as that is exactly what happened to me. My narc ex wifes family is a cult with her Mother being Queen Bee. At family gatherings they only socialise with each other and look down their noses at their in-laws. It really is a very toxic and harmful environment. I left her at the end of 2018, filed for divorce and its the healthiest decision Ive ever made. Good luck and all the best for the future.
Omgosh am so sorry. Apple doesn’t fall far from the tree. I think I fell into bad relationships because it was “familiar “. But thanks to dr McGee and others I see this as it is. I have gotten out of this type of thing and am much better at making healthy relationships.
You need to get a better understanding of narcissism before you toss it around. Take time and read the laws of human nature. You also need a personal reflection.
@@kennedymacharia2285 We will have to disagree about my understanding of family systems, family structure, Intergenerational trauma and cluster B personality diagnoses & narcissists. We don’t know each other so I wouldn’t expect different. Personal reflection can help everyone and so will take that part of your advice and let the rest fly.
It got to the point where it was mentally & emotionally exhausting being part of my Mother's fake public image. People just didn't know how sinister her behavior was. I finally just cut her out of my life 3 years ago, she recently tried to contact me through my UA-cam Channel with her usual manipulation tactics and I've had to block her. At this point in my life I can't let her toxicity back into my life.
Did you go no contact with your whole family? I have been smeared to all of the relatives. I feel like I might as well just give up rather than going no contact. It's just giving up. Walking away.
@@SusanaXpeace2u yes, I had to because my mother will use anything & anyone to edge her way in. It's hard for me to understand why she has this compulsion to wreak havoc in my life. I pleaded with my father to leave as well 3yrs ago when I did but he's stuck in some twisted trauma bond with her.
When I was growing up, I was the scapegoat. I was actually afraid my stepmother wanted to kill me, so I tried to be very, very good. As an adult I am still the scapegoat, but I have gone grey rock or no contact with most of the family. You are so right, such a family is like a cult.
If you resonate with this information, you have always been isolated and alone. Don’t let that scare you. Use it to your advantage. Live the life you desire and deserve. 💜
6:54 when the scapegoat leaves (no contact) the narc family, almost with 100% certainty within a few months, family members start fighting each other. eg: They stop visiting each other, suddenly no more x-mas, family dinners, birthdays celebrations, holidays together etc. When I left, I knew that they were going to hoover me back to family life, but I didn't expect how huge the scale of the hoovering would be. I was contacted by people who I had never met in my life, telling me how much my family "miss" me, how much they love me, etc.
Yes. Our Narc family has fractured apart since I left. One of my adult children has also set boundaries and limited contact with toxic family. I, too, have had people I don’t know come to me and tell me my mother told them I was not speaking to her and they just want me to know there are two sides to every story. Bleh! Too bad they are only interested in hearing and believing the false side of the narcissist! I’ve been no contact with several family members for almost 2 years (not just my mother).
I find those who haven’t experienced this, or have a deep understanding of narcissistic family systems, can’t comprehend the lifelong pain and loss we experience being the scapegoat. I find these videos to be so clear and accurate, and so helpful I often think they should be used as a teaching tool in schools. Going no contact is so incredibly healthy, and also so incredibly heartbreaking. I’m moving through the grief, but it’s still hard being without a family when everyone else I know has that joy, support and sense of belonging in their lives. I’ve been blessed with a wonderful husband and friends, and have made a great life despite it all, but it took so much hard work to heal and do it all alone. I’m now dealing with serious health issues as a result of all the forms of abuse I survived, and the lifelong intensive stress because of my “family”. But I am getting through it and feel hopeful and positive about the future. Us scapegoats are typically the strong, truly loving empathic souls, and I’d rather be a kind, loving, generally happy human than fit into that toxic, negative, abusive family system, even if it means being betrayed and rejected by the people who were meant to protect and love me.
As the scapegoat of the family, I know what it feels like to be treated with disrespect even when I did good things. No one wanted to validate me in any way. Then when I decided to stay away from the family in may later years, they were angry that I was not there to pick on and feel superior to. They would invite me to the party so I could see them ignoring me. There were those who avoided me because they thought something was wrong with me because of how my family treated me. I have had such joy and peace since I put them all out of my life. I never told them I was going to do it so once in a while they try to come back in and I am kind but keep things short or do not answer their calls at all. I didn't feel sad when our parents died but a little sad that I have a family that never loved me. Thankfully I am born-again and Christ lives in me, He is all I need and occasionally He sends other wonderful friends who do care.
I realise now, I only ever had two choices, submit to her narrative that she is perfect and the victim of me and that I'm crazy and unhinged. Or be the outcast. I wasted two years trying to make her talk to me to me. I got nowhere because if you're as convinced as she is that there is only one perspective, then yeh, any attempt to communicate is a threat. It is ''madness''. So yeh, it's like a battle of the narratives. Hers was always going to win. I feel sane and emotionally aware. She hurt me, my dad and my brother had ring side seats and cheered her on, but that does not make me crazy. It makes me somebody who was on the receiving end of hurtful behaviour.
Omg I can relate so much to this! I came home from college a changed person and tried for three years to make them understand how I felt and try to share my heart with them and help the family change, but they hated me, and treated me horribly and unkindly and were very mean to me. I was becoming unwell and was having nightmares of ending my father’s life, and that’s when I left home and blocked them all. It was so hard! And so painful to remember and even think about losing them! 😭 but people don’t understand that it’s so toxic and soul-draining you literally feel like a worthless piece of shit with no value and are so low, that keeping them around just keeps you broken and from moving towards life and love and freedom. They tried to Hoover me too, but it took like a year or two to kinda finally just stop interacting AT ALL, and I God it is so fucking tempting to try to get back in touch with them too! But I know I can’t and am not talking to them knowing that one day they will either know why I left and I’ll be able to support them then once I’m fully recovered or, they will never change and I’ll be good to keep them out while I live my life and recover. Thank you for sharing! Good luck friend💙💙
Yep! You've just described my family perfectly! My narcissist father was a pastor and always had to make sure we all looked perfect. Talk about feeling like I was in a cult!! He's real good at making himself the center of everything and the fun, loveable guy to everyone else. Thanks for your very insightful videos, Darren!
Ditto with my husband's family and his father - who made himself a popular pastor/minister by putting on a grand show of "caring and compassion" for his church and neighbors. But at home? He demanded that everyone wait on him at every turn and laud him at every turn while idolizing him as if he himself were "god." And his wife played her role by selling him as Mr. Wonderful Preacher to everyone in the large extended families. I was / am the daughter-in-law (first DIL in the family, too) who, from the get-go, started recognizing that things weren't as they were claimed to be. The first thing I picked up on (the core dynamic) is that the whole family was held together by a chain of lies - a chain by which they were all held in the family's prison. If they wanted to be "loved" by the parents or each other, each had to do his or her part in upholding the family facade by telling, supporting, or not challenging the liars' narrative. They all knew their roles for performing their Holier Than Though kabuki dance for outsiders. But within? Coersion, abuse, cruelty, slander, backstabbing, ostracism as punishment, and doing everything to satisfy the father's enormous sense of entitlement. (My husband was the rebellious Black Sheep in the family, so he got targeted.) To this day, though, I struggle with my husband because he - after he hid it well at first - developed his own narcissistic bent from his father's example. It's there, awfully so, but there has been incremental improvement over the decades, particularly since his father died 10 years ago. And then his mother died 2 years ago, and he has been more relaxed (in his good periods...) and even more gingerly honest than I ever saw in the early years. Now? "Ding Dong, the warlock and the witch are both dead," allowing him to gingerly test the waters of freedom. I don't hope for a lot, but I'm keeping my marriage commitment and standing up strongly for myself, so I at least hope improvement will continue. I've given up on his (all adult) siblings, though. I'm Enemy No. 1 to that whole lot, and after silently putting up with their charade for decades, I've gone No Contact. It's so freeing to give yourself permission to just stop putting up with people who are as dishonest and backstabbing as that twisted bunch.
@@susansheldon2707 your father-in-law sounds exactly like my father. And my sister calls our mother the high priestess of his cult. Ugh! I'm glad your husband is making improvements in that area! It's so hard as adult children raised (and brainwashed) like this to gain freedom and a good sense of self and mental health.
My mother was a fun loving extrovert outside the home loved by everyone. Noone would ever believe how she treated me, the scapegoat. She slandered me to everyone. I have no relationship with extended family. They cross the street when they see me. I'm just a rotten kid who hurt my mother to them. Having a mother who hates you is a wound that never heals.
You can get help for healing, there will always be scars. My life did improve as I gained knowledge,help and went no contact with my mother and my flying monkey siblings. You can’t change the past, but you can learn to empower yourself and not be anyone’s victim moving forward. It takes time and work, but worth it. I have been able to leave a let go of caring for a toxic narc husband and employer later down the road. I couldn’t have done that without delving deep into this subject and getting help.
I am so sorry to hear your story! That is completely heartbreaking to hear ); I’m on your side friend😁😊💙👍 No matter how you move forward, you deserve the love and support you want and need!
"You're not allowed to leave." Several years ago but before I relocated back there for those nearly 5 years, the same half-sister asked me twice if I had any regrets about leaving? The first time she asked me, I answered and thought nothing of it; however when she asked the second time, I said to myself: "There's something there." I shared the experience with my therapist at the time and he completely agreed.
Complaining and putting down is done behind each other's backs, as the scapegoat tho I'm not allowed to have any complaints or hurts. I've always tried to bring it to the person only to be met with devaluation, gaslighting and anger and being accused of starting a fight. Whatever it is, it's my fault. I was also used and discarded by my parents being parentified, which also was used to pit my siblings against me.
@@JCTBomb I'm so sorry, it's such a deep and and powerful pain that I wouldn't wish on anyone❤️ I hope that you are finding your way to peace and love for yourself.
For me too. In my dysfunctional cult family the Golden child married what I believe was a "narcissist in waiting". Now the narc and his enabler both died this new narc claims the position left vacant by deceased narc and is the golden child is "promoted" to the position of the enabler. This looks like the process of passing on these destructive patterns over the generations.
Again, you hit the nail on the head. You must have been raised in a Narcissistic family because your insight in too accurate. I appreciate your videos because I am now able to see that I don't have to feel guilty. I am the child that didn't buy into the lies, and I payed the price. I am 65 and am just now figuring this out.
Your summation of what unifying with a narcissistic family will cost one is dead on. I see that with all, all of my siblings- including the surrogate ones. I will spare you that detail. However, here is an example of the affect: I have a half-sister (we have the same father) who will be 50 years old soon and still never moved out of her parents' house.
I have lived with this for the last two years from my family. Left my ex after 40years of abuse. My four adult children not only accepted his repulsive behavior but actively participated in it. The lies, deciept, verbal abuse, ostracism, smear campaign, financial coercion was unending until I moved very far away and went no contact. A DVO over him stopped his direct frightening behavior but he still now continues the financial abuse through the lawyers and the kids. Refuses to cooperate on reaching a settlement. But it is the behaviour of my children that actually took away my will to live. I always thought it was like a cult. I still can't get my head around it. They ripped me to shreds each time I tried to explain. I gave up. I was there for all of them every time they needed me, but the only way I can get any closure is to think that they never really had a father and now all of a sudden they have one and he is father of the year. The biggest hurt is not seeing my grandchildren. It kills me but I am hoping one day that will change. To everyone out there going through the same thing I feel your pain and please know that even though the your situation may be different to mine we are so much stronger than we ever thought possible, our character is built on strong foundations and we are not afraid anymore. Love to all. And thankyou Darren
I have to tell you that you are never out of the woods with a sociopath. My parents were sure the divorce was my fault, and my siblings thought it was funny. Eleven year divorce for a six year marriage. $125k-$150k in legal fees, mediation, etc. I have no idea what kinds of things he said to brainwash the kids to make them hate me so much. He would act on anything I would say, beginning with, "Put the seatbelts on them," after which he drove up and down the street with them standing on the seat of his truck. It was dangerous to say anything, and I tried to go no contact, but he got the judge to get all over my case about it. All kinds of crazy stuff went on, with him always smiling. Still, I kept any words to a bare minimum and kept my shades pulled. Fast forward (actually not very fast at all) 27 years, and he shoots a cop in the back for no reason. Plea bargained for life without parole. So what I'm saying is be very quiet and very careful.
God bless you Debbie. I’m so sorry for what you had to experience. I’m also family scapegoat. My x Narc husband aligned himself with my family for his own ego and financial support. Financial abuse with coercive control is agonizing.
Oh wow, I'm just in the first few minutes & you've just perfectly described my husband's large Irish Catholic family. When I first met them I thought they were so amazing & wonderful unlike my own hellish, chaotic family of origin. Slowly through the years I've seen that they are highly problematic as well but so very good at hiding it, appearing to be that wonderful close knit family. My MIL told me once that none of her children ever fought. I was skeptical. Perhaps she just didn't see them but I'm sure that sibling disagreements are normal in any family & it sounds abnormal to say they didn't occur. I realize now why I have always felt like an outsider even after 30 years of being around them, they rarely let the facade fall down. How can you even have a conversation with someone who's always wonderful? Everything's great. Kids, job, it's all good.
Adding to my comment instead of editing because it'd be too lengthy. I wish I'd seen the red flags, because you've perfectly described my own family, the us vs them. My son going no contact, his sister the golden child, not understanding because she has a daddy on a pedestal while still worried about making him angry. It was always us, my son & I against them, my husband & daughter. He created it & perpetrated this dynamic when he referred to me & our son as my maiden names & him & our daughter as his last names. We were lazy, good for nothings while they were hard working, get the job done useful people. What a mess. I love my daughter & I hate how he twisted her & she doesn't even realize it. I'm especially worried when she says she was afraid her bf would be angry or she's worried about him being mad at her.
It's really difficult when you finally come to terms with the fact you were abused as an older adult, because abuse looks normal and when you've gone through it for more than 4 decades then it seems impossible to learn how to recognize what a healthy relationship looks like. I went from being a very outgoing social person to an extreme introvert because when I see red flags then my natural reaction is "Ooh! Party!"
Lol, it's funny because it's true! I'm beginning to see the red flags for what they are, perhaps a bit hypervigilant(sp?) now but I feel allot safer. I'm glad you are starting to see it and wish you the best in your journey❤️
@@thesehandsart Thank you. I'm glad you're able to recognize that red means stop ... hopefully I will get to that point before the grim reaper comes calling. I wish you a peaceful journey as healing seems to take forever.
It's like you have been a fly on the wall in my life. I thought we were fairly close although I knew my mother was extremely defensive. But actually, all we ever did was talk about the weather, the garden, the roast.......... and my mother will accept *no* feedback. She turns it all around and attacks me, gives me the silent treatment, smears me to the relatives and now that our relationship is destroyed, she blames me. My Dad has supported her every inch of the way. And my brother the apologist sort of gets it intellectually but he's still angry with me! He still blames me, even though he can see that legitimacy of some of my questions to him, eg, how come her 'hurt' is a sign of my badness but my 'hurt' is a sign of my *mad* ness. How come her hurt is real and should shame me but my hurt is a grudge. How come talking directly is too angry but silent treatments are allowed? So! Howdya fix it?! :D
Wow! That's my family too! You put it so clearly, mind if I borrow your words? So requiring to hear I'm not alone, but sad at the same time that others have to go through this too ❤️
Susana the answer to your questions at the bottom of your comment is because your mom is using manipulative tactics such as gaslighting to blame shift and refocus negative attention on Your supposed bad behavior Rather than her own. That's what NPD's do. They use "pity plays" to create guilt to make you feel sorry for them & Make you question yourself to make you feel guilty. As to how you can fix it the experts say there is only one way. NO CONTACT. Unfortunately. You cannot change a narcissist. All you can do is remove yourself permanently. 😰
This is exactly my family. Not that I'm completely there yet, myself, but while reading your description, it crossed my mind to ask you why (not how) you would fix this situation. I know I'm not perfect, but I also know that, after 5 decades of life and 3 decades of happy marriage, many loving friends and kind co-workers, I only feel consistently confused, disrespected and un-seen in one setting: interactions involving my family of origin. I find it sad, but no longer feel it's appropriate, necessary or even possible for me to keep working at it.
OMG this is my family too. My Mum still refuses to understand that her rage, silent treatments and hostility towards me whilst I was growing up has screwed up my mind! I can’t hold down a relationship. Never married or had children. All she keeps saying now to me is SELF RESPONSIBILITY! Like I choose to have CPTSD!!!!
Amen. Keep in mind the “golden children (I got 2 in my childhood; [oldest brother and youngest sister]” are also being abused. They are being enmeshed and basically groomed to listen or else suffer the treatment that the scapegoat or scapegoats are receiving. I went “no contact” years ago. But for many years before that my oldest brother always actually thought he had some kind of authority over me, just cuz he is the oldest sibling. It’s laughable and pathetic. But he was just doing what his master (my narc mom) told him to do. So the golden children are basically stuck for life. And us scapegoats get to choose to leave and be great on our own, or in our own way 😊.
"Questions, challenges, are often met with aggression and passive aggression"- Yes I am a witness and explains the coldness that I received on one occasion and hand pointing (rather than finger pointing) that I received on another. Sir, if I didn't know better, I would swear that you knew my family in the most intimate of ways.
Wow! I have done so much research into WHY all 3 of my adult children (all with children of their own), treat me so badly. Parental alienation? Narcissistic fleas? Narcissistic themselves? My therapist recently made the comment - “it’s like they are all on one side and you are on the other”. The them and us mentality. In your example I am the soon to be ex-partner but also the scapegoat rather than one of my children having that role. From what you stated Darren, that role can be anyone. I filed for divorce almost a year ago and things have been even worse and what you said describes my life right down to almost total isolation and my grands being affected:(. Thank you for these videos!!
I'm curious what you think about narcissists believing their facades. I once told my mum I thought we weren't a close family.... she had a meltdown. tears, crisis, 'how could I say something so hurtful?'. this was before I knew the word narcissism, or realised I was the scapegoat in the narcissistic nest. I was just baffled how something so plain to me seemed to be a genuine surprise to her. I know she knows deep down, but the depth of the delusion is scary.
The delusion is scary. A teen friend told me my mother was like the delusional Blanche in a “Streetcar Named Desire.” My mother told a story of my graduation once to a big group. The truth is I did not graduate publicly! My diploma was mailed and my mother made the whole story up to fit her ideals. A psychologist told me that example is an extreme form of gaslighting.
Thanks so much Darren! I was the scapegoat and my father was also scapegoated to my mother’s need to covertly be “the perfect parent”. This is my family, and was grateful I was rebellious and left the family to go on my own early. I could never understand why the family thought our family was so “wonderful” in public and home was a giant shit show. I did see the family lie from early on. These videos from wonderful counselors such as your self have been so helpful for understanding a family caught in a hamster wheel of chaos, and I was the healthy one for recognizing the toxic nature. The teacher always appears when the student is ready for the lesson! ❤
I was the youngest of five. My father was the "common enemy" as set up by my mother. We ALL were against him. She was a fragile little victim ever since I can remember; however, she smothered me. She never wanted to go on family outings, and so would tell me that I had to stay home with her because "they don't want to deal with you." Truth be told, I was a lively kid, and once my oldest sister, the scapegoat, moved out of the house and went no contact, I became the new scapegoat. It wasn't until my mother got Parkinson's and wasn't heard from very much, that I really started to get along with my father. It wasn't until after he was gone that I really put it all together. Recently, I finally invaded his privacy by reading a stack of letters he had written to my mother when they were courting after WWII. It was all right there. He was attending UC Davis, learning about fruit trees and bees, on the GI Bill, about one hour away. She must have written him many letters complaining about him not taking her dancing on Friday nights, because in almost every letter, he was apologizing for being such a heel.
🙋🏻♀️ That was my childhood: golden child turned into scape goat once I moved out. Very confusing and hurtful. I’m so glad I finally saw the reality of things.
Hmmm 🤔 I found siblings just took over narcissistic roles after parents passed. We were more united when they were alive. The Golden Child who was furious with them before is now behaving like them. It’s as if they’re still alive through her and her husband. I just can’t deal with with the contempt, devaluing and dominance plays any longer. So painfully disappointing 😢
Im having that experience, my brother is like my mother towards me all over again. Its sickening to watch. I am the scapegoat and uts getting worse. Ive retained a lawyer now so that the lies come to light. My inheritance almost gone before this birthday when i was to come into it. My brother " in charge " of it, putting me thru hoops, saying awful things, ignoring me, contemptuous towards me. Still, id rather be the scapegoat than to be like him,!!!
@@gracedager8683 I’m sorry this is happening. Unfortunately it is more common than one knew. Once aware you can’t unsee it. Glad you’re advocating for yourself. 😌
My father subtly played my brother and me off each other, even into adulthood. He never said "why can you be more like your brother/sister?" but he knew how to play up what each of us was good at that the other one wasn't. It wasn't until we were in our 40s that I learned that my brother thought *I* was the golden child because I got such good grades. I grew up thinking *he* was the golden child because he did everything our father wanted him to do.
Thank you very much, I appreciate what this video reveals about narcissistic family dynamics. It is good to know the truth; even if it results in greater difficulty for now, I know life will be much better. I'd like to learn more about enmeshed family relationships.
Thank you for a very informative and supportive video Darren 😊this is exactly what happened in the narcisistic cult type of dynamics I have been targeted by for a couple of years now. These people are drunk on power and control. They are arrogant and corrupt to the core. Sickening.
Narcissistic parents always give wings to fly to one or some of their children but the scapegoat; that one is isolated in order to serve them especially in their elderly years. Siblings will always complain that the scapegoat is not taking proper care of the narcissist because he or she will complain about everything and how lonely they are while the scapegoat is completely devoted to their welfare. Also the siblings living away from the narcissist will attack the caretaker to justify themselves for not caring or visiting the narcissists. I had a "friend" of the family scowling me after my father died since my narcissistic mother will complain about how lonely she was. The funny thing is that she spent family holidays like Christmas with my family, not hers. She had to take care for her parents when her only brother died, something she was not used to it. Surprisingly, she apologized to me for blaming me of not taking care of my mother after that. People think that taking care of others is an easy thing and don't understand the caretaker needs time to disconnect or they will become ill. By the way, the scapegoat is even blamed for falling ill too. Narcissists believe you fall ill in order to bother them. Scapegoats are viewed as not entitled to have human rights.
@iklijkwelgekmetmijneigennaam Thank you. I went contac 4 years ago and still healing. I thought I would get up on my feet right away but I didn't know how hurted I'm. It's been almost 6 decades of abuse. I think I'm going to be healing for the rest of my life. It seems like an endless process. Take care.
True statement. What to do ? All these are well preserved chaos. The master brain always play triangulation amongst the entire families. Even society where we interact with. Secretly happy about our indicate situations.
Sir, that's exactly how deeply felt and told my former therapist via text message. I definitely felt like an outsider. This video has truly brought understanding regarding why I received the negative energy that I had.
I have lived what you are describing, and despite being kindred, as I grew older, I could tell something was missing- still is. That's why I am in Tennessee and they are in Maryland. Wouldn't take anymore.
cult is the perfect way to explain how a narcissist family operates. the echo in my mind ...... what happens in this house, behind closed doors .... is nobody's business .... sad and alone, we would play the perfect 'happy family' to all outsiders....
Thank you is insufficient in expressing my gratitude for what you gave in this video and all of your videos for that matter. You are helping and healing people who you may never meet.
As a kid I wasn't aware of terms like psedomutuality and narcissism but one thing I felt was my family system was not exactly healthy cuz of the way my siblings were pitted against each other and constantly compared. If I pointed out that we were all quite different and there was no point comparing I was immediately punished as a troublemaker and my siblings too thought I was evil and bad. Since I was a child, I too started having doubts and got confused about who I really was, was I evil and bad? Things got way too much for me so I ran away when I was 19. I am glad I did cuz my 2 siblings have both become narcs with no interest in self awareness and who still gang up against me and have started their own families with the very same system. The 2 siblings are always fiercely competitive with each other and everyone around them constantly comparing themselves and their kids to others. One of the kids even tried to commit suicide and the other too has become a full blown narc. For me, that is an exhausting way to live. I wish them on their birthdays, meet them in family get togethers, but that too is already way too exhausting.
Never saw it in my birth family but, when we had children, this behaviour came out in my husband. I’d say I unwittingly covered up for him for years until I eventually realised my situation was abusive. That’s an extra layer of guilt, I can tell you.
"Caring, loving, and fair"- This exactly how she came across in a voicemail. I speak of my mother. By this time I had relocated back to Tennessee, where life was better in every sense. I changed my phone number the same day of the voicemail.
Darren - took this to my therapist. She loved your explanation/comments. As I stated in a previous comment I am dealing with this ; it is so spot on. There is very very little about parents with adult children who DONT ever change and it is the worse thing I have ever dealt with. Can you please do a video on how this does play out, ie why it never ends. Than you again!
@@winter-qd4yw i just watched my narc psychopath dad pass away at the age of 91 he never softened or else admitted to recognizing the errors of his ways he was ice cold to my mother and to us children my mom and dad never devorced my mother passed at 54 she just couldn't take any more the way it played out for him was nothing changed
It is possible that the Parents pass away, but there is one grown up child who seems particularly narcissistic. The other grown up children unite against this individual, however give the dynamics of narcissistic families this individual then becomes the brunt of unkind jokes, ostracized, etc....in effect they become the Scapegoat and the narcissistic dynamics continues?
My boundaries and calling out the abuse is punished by silent treatment from all my siblings and sister in law. My mother is a master covert manipulator and my father is an overt aggressive narcissist and actually I see them all as severely mentally ill people. It’s sad that I have to cut them all out of my life, especially my mother, but the alternative is that my mental health will continue to decline if I stay in contact with them. It’s a toxic soup that the sane person must jump out of.
Another nice explanation. I would like that you continue with what you mentioned at the end - children vs narcissistic parents. I used to have a colleague whom I know is a mother - she has a daughter - but I'm very afraid for the well-being of that child. 😟
Soo good. You helped me sort a lot out. I’ve watched many N vids looking for someone that feels right. Maybe feels loving and not hateful. I think you’re just delightful. I have to say, I’ve not heard one put together this way, explaining the family like you did. I’ve been listening every night. Your videos leave me feeling thoughtful and sorted a bit better, it’s been several days and the better seems to be sticking day to day. It must be the spirit you do it with. And your voice is lovely as well. 😊 How wonderful it would be to have an Irish accent 😆 sincerely. It’s extra loving to the ear for some reason, my only conclusion is it must just be the people speakin with it. Actually now that I’m thinking and have been reading family history lately, who knows, maybe looking for help from beyond, lol ( but they say thinking of them draws them near, I’ve tried it, I think it’s why I’m on this journey, their help) Anyhow, one of my great grandfathers was born in Ireland. I feel happy for that. You’ve helped me greatly good sir. I believe the spirit you teach with fosters learning by the spirit. And that’s why I feel more enlightened and hopeful after your videos. I’m glad to have found you and thank you, really, thank you for being lovely and true.
Well, they couldn't unite against me, because when I went back after 3 years for vacation, I didn't go to see any of them and will not in the future. Between childhood and what I saw after basically 30 years away when I relocated for nearly 5 years, I have concluded that nothing will ever change. No contact means no conflicts.
I wish I could fully explain how right this is. My son was weaponised against me by having him “parentified”. He was used as interrogation weapon to break me down on many occasions. I have reams of secret notes on the abuse that I have been subjected to, they are secret because I am not allowed to have one. They are deemed to be “the ramblings of a madman”.
wow - I've often described my religious upbringing as the church of (mom's name). And I eventually came to use the word, "cult," to describe it. Especially because there seldom was an actual church she approved of - but we were supposed to be some ideal of her version of "normal" (I wasn't normal; I was Dumb Ass and then some). Everything you outline here is the exact description of our family - and extends to the grandchildren. and pseudohostility? No, I think she sit there inventing others' faults and thinking up ways to either not be friends (though she's very friendly and pleasant) or to plan ways to stir up trouble or just go off on them (behind the scenes, of course)... It'slike her life needs a poor little victim, a hero, a villain, a ne'er do well, a misfit, and a chief promoter (flying monkey) to adore her and it doesn't matter how you actually are; nshe just seems to arbitrarity assign the roles.
This is my family. My mother split her children, Golden Child, Scapegoat and Lost Child/Mascot. I am no contact w Golden Child. Parents and Scapegoat have passed on.
Darren, if one was to summize the "general theme" of this segment one could note "A Narcissist will shift an "enabler" into a more powerful position if they are receiving a healthy feed of "SUPPLY". This can involve (as you have stated) a range of behaviours and strategies which are not admissible information into the current systems involved with the accountably for someone's actions. 🤔
My mother "I was jealous whe your father took you out for the day at christmas", also my my mother when I was hurt or physically injured "I don't remember that". Pathetic and selfish
I’m the scapegoat. This video makes me feel sad because you are describing my family and childhood. It’s strange to realise that everything I went through… and the PTSD I now have… is down to one simple thing: personality disorders. I went no contact with my family last year - at the age of 41 - and, even though it is hard and lonely, it isn’t as hard and lonely as being part of such a toxic and violent group.
Get a dog and go for walks in the woods. Get a nature guide and learn the names of the trees and flowers, who become your new relatives.
Thank you for your words. It's devastating to have a narcissistic family. Recently cut off sister & son. Praying hard for my son. Please pray for Dean. 😢
damn at 41 well gg for holding up that long
i appreciate you might have lost a lot on them
@Cornusnuttallii- This is a lovely suggestion. I have four cats instead of one dog. I’m a singer so I often sing outside in nature where trees are the audience.
the small child version of you would be so proud. that’s what i always remind myself, i think back to the intense feelings of confusion and unfairness i perceived as a child through certain moments that i told myself i will always remember as i longed for justice. i’m 23 now, cutting off my sinister narcissistic cult of a family has given me that justice, it’s been 9 months now and i haven’t had one second of regret. we are free now, to find yourself and your own tribe ! good luck to you
Understanding and recognizing these toxic family dynamics for what they are is liberating.
No one ever understood. My family looked to everyone on the outside like the picture of perfection. With that image, which my mother viciously guarded, others actually treated me with hostility and jealousy! I couldn't believe the chasm between truth and what was sold.
Thank you for exposing this hidden phenomenon.
I know what you mean, some other people thought we were the perfect family, in truth it was a cult, ruled over by a weak father and mean threatening mother. My whole early life was a lie.
@@adkc19 Both my parents had their own issues, which they never dealt with, and had no problem piling on me. I'm sorry for everyone who goes thru these kinds of imprisoned hells of perception. Really too many interlopers make things worse, because they only THINK they understand. This is where the great Jean-Paul Sartre and his work in existentialism and the absurd helped me when I was younger. In cases like these, especially with rabid entitled flying monkey interlopers who really understand very little, "hell is other people."
They'll pretend like they're the "Mother of the Year" while crucifying you behind your back
And people don’t feel sorry for you as they would for an obviously abused child-the fact that you are being abused is carefully hidden.
"Conflicts are solved by either ignoring them or shutting them down immediately. Problems aren't addressed in a fair, respectful, understanding way." "Not just to maintain control but to avoid having to deal with deeper feelings to avoid emotional closeness." "Divide and conquer" "The narcissist pits the other family members each other by sowing confusion, fear, envy, and chaos. That division makes it easier for them to control everyone." This is my narc mother. She pitted her 5 children against each other in order to feed her narc self. I consider myself an adult orphan. I want nothing to do with any of them because she gets them to do her dirty work while bawling her eyes out over me "hurting" her by calling out her bad behavior.
Bless you, Sara 🙏
Stay strong ❤
You see things clearly, stay steady on the course ! Best of luck
Just another setup by the Narc. for more supply. Reactive abuse is a favorite go-to in my little wing of Hell.
Ditto, ditto, ditto!
This video was really helpful.
Thank you 🙏🏾
At age 45 I finally called out my Mother in front of the whole family. With full awareness of the consequences - punishment through being ostracised, gas-lit and smeared. I am once again, the common enemy. Except this time, I won’t be going back!
Scapegoat and proud 💪🏽🤙🏽❤️
I married the scapegoat in a narcissistic family. I believe he married me because I supported him, saw through the narcissist & wasn’t afraid to stand up to the narcissist. But over time I then became the scapegoat for my husband and his family. All the in-laws are the scapegoats in that family and my husband threw me right under the bus when he saw the opportunity to be accepted by having a target. The family has this huge network of “family friends” who have all been picked specifically because they feed the narrative that the family is amazing and it is everyone else. Overtime I saw how my own support system was stripped away and the focus became him and his family and their friends. We are divorcing and I feel a great relief
I’m glad you’re getting out. And yep- you’ll be tossed right under the bus if it gains them the acceptance they desperately want from their family a(scapegoat or not).
My husband has done the same to me and I see the ending of it being like yours …..
Wow Melanie that really strikes a massive chord with me. It is a great point you make about the in-laws becoming the scapegoat as that is exactly what happened to me. My narc ex wifes family is a cult with her Mother being Queen Bee. At family gatherings they only socialise with each other and look down their noses at their in-laws. It really is a very toxic and harmful environment. I left her at the end of 2018, filed for divorce and its the healthiest decision Ive ever made. Good luck and all the best for the future.
Omgosh am so sorry. Apple doesn’t fall far from the tree. I think I fell into bad relationships because it was “familiar “. But thanks to dr McGee and others I see this as it is. I have gotten out of this type of thing and am much better at making healthy relationships.
You need to get a better understanding of narcissism before you toss it around. Take time and read the laws of human nature. You also need a personal reflection.
@@kennedymacharia2285 We will have to disagree about my understanding of family systems, family structure, Intergenerational trauma and cluster B personality diagnoses & narcissists. We don’t know each other so I wouldn’t expect different. Personal reflection can help everyone and so will take that part of your advice and let the rest fly.
It got to the point where it was mentally & emotionally exhausting being part of my Mother's fake public image. People just didn't know how sinister her behavior was. I finally just cut her out of my life 3 years ago, she recently tried to contact me through my UA-cam Channel with her usual manipulation tactics and I've had to block her. At this point in my life I can't let her toxicity back into my life.
Did you go no contact with your whole family? I have been smeared to all of the relatives. I feel like I might as well just give up rather than going no contact. It's just giving up. Walking away.
@@SusanaXpeace2u yes, I had to because my mother will use anything & anyone to edge her way in. It's hard for me to understand why she has this compulsion to wreak havoc in my life. I pleaded with my father to leave as well 3yrs ago when I did but he's stuck in some twisted trauma bond with her.
@Tracker Pete ✌🏼and I bet life has become a heck of a lot more peaceful because of it
I can identify , my condolences .
@Tracker Pete thanks, I will definitely check out your channel✌🏼
When I was growing up, I was the scapegoat. I was actually afraid my stepmother wanted to kill me, so I tried to be very, very good. As an adult I am still the scapegoat, but I have gone grey rock or no contact with most of the family. You are so right, such a family is like a cult.
You are right! She does want to kill you and will if you give her the chance. My mother almost killed me. Death by a thousand cuts!
@@terridillon3053 "death by a thousand cuts" is right! Blessings :)
Why Manson was so successful recruiting isolated people into his cult/family to do his dirty work.
If you resonate with this information, you have always been isolated and alone. Don’t let that scare you. Use it to your advantage. Live the life you desire and deserve. 💜
Thank you
Being without the narcissist is the best thing in the world!
6:54 when the scapegoat leaves (no contact) the narc family, almost with 100% certainty within a few months, family members start fighting each other. eg: They stop visiting each other, suddenly no more x-mas, family dinners, birthdays celebrations, holidays together etc.
When I left, I knew that they were going to hoover me back to family life, but I didn't expect how huge the scale of the hoovering would be. I was contacted by people who I had never met in my life, telling me how much my family "miss" me, how much they love me, etc.
True! My mom started to openly complain about my father neglect as I moved, at 37... it was shocking to see that they fell like a house of cards.
Yes. Our Narc family has fractured apart since I left. One of my adult children has also set boundaries and limited contact with toxic family. I, too, have had people I don’t know come to me and tell me my mother told them I was not speaking to her and they just want me to know there are two sides to every story. Bleh! Too bad they are only interested in hearing and believing the false side of the narcissist!
I’ve been no contact with several family members for almost 2 years (not just my mother).
My family are like this and they are addicted to only feeling “positive” and can’t tolerate anything other than happy emotions
You described my mother, and the blind loyalty of the entire family.
I find those who haven’t experienced this, or have a deep understanding of narcissistic family systems, can’t comprehend the lifelong pain and loss we experience being the scapegoat. I find these videos to be so clear and accurate, and so helpful I often think they should be used as a teaching tool in schools.
Going no contact is so incredibly healthy, and also so incredibly heartbreaking. I’m moving through the grief, but it’s still hard being without a family when everyone else I know has that joy, support and sense of belonging in their lives. I’ve been blessed with a wonderful husband and friends, and have made a great life despite it all, but it took so much hard work to heal and do it all alone. I’m now dealing with serious health issues as a result of all the forms of abuse I survived, and the lifelong intensive stress because of my “family”. But I am getting through it and feel hopeful and positive about the future. Us scapegoats are typically the strong, truly loving empathic souls, and I’d rather be a kind, loving, generally happy human than fit into that toxic, negative, abusive family system, even if it means being betrayed and rejected by the people who were meant to protect and love me.
As the scapegoat of the family, I know what it feels like to be treated with disrespect even when I did good things. No one wanted to validate me in any way. Then when I decided to stay away from the family in may later years, they were angry that I was not there to pick on and feel superior to. They would invite me to the party so I could see them ignoring me. There were those who avoided me because they thought something was wrong with me because of how my family treated me. I have had such joy and peace since I put them all out of my life. I never told them I was going to do it so once in a while they try to come back in and I am kind but keep things short or do not answer their calls at all. I didn't feel sad when our parents died but a little sad that I have a family that never loved me. Thankfully I am born-again and Christ lives in me, He is all I need and occasionally He sends other wonderful friends who do care.
I realise now, I only ever had two choices, submit to her narrative that she is perfect and the victim of me and that I'm crazy and unhinged. Or be the outcast. I wasted two years trying to make her talk to me to me. I got nowhere because if you're as convinced as she is that there is only one perspective, then yeh, any attempt to communicate is a threat. It is ''madness''. So yeh, it's like a battle of the narratives. Hers was always going to win.
I feel sane and emotionally aware. She hurt me, my dad and my brother had ring side seats and cheered her on, but that does not make me crazy. It makes me somebody who was on the receiving end of hurtful behaviour.
Omg I can relate so much to this! I came home from college a changed person and tried for three years to make them understand how I felt and try to share my heart with them and help the family change, but they hated me, and treated me horribly and unkindly and were very mean to me. I was becoming unwell and was having nightmares of ending my father’s life, and that’s when I left home and blocked them all.
It was so hard! And so painful to remember and even think about losing them! 😭 but people don’t understand that it’s so toxic and soul-draining you literally feel like a worthless piece of shit with no value and are so low, that keeping them around just keeps you broken and from moving towards life and love and freedom.
They tried to Hoover me too, but it took like a year or two to kinda finally just stop interacting AT ALL, and I God it is so fucking tempting to try to get back in touch with them too! But I know I can’t and am not talking to them knowing that one day they will either know why I left and I’ll be able to support them then once I’m fully recovered or, they will never change and I’ll be good to keep them out while I live my life and recover.
Thank you for sharing! Good luck friend💙💙
Yep! You've just described my family perfectly! My narcissist father was a pastor and always had to make sure we all looked perfect. Talk about feeling like I was in a cult!! He's real good at making himself the center of everything and the fun, loveable guy to everyone else. Thanks for your very insightful videos, Darren!
Ditto with my husband's family and his father - who made himself a popular pastor/minister by putting on a grand show of "caring and compassion" for his church and neighbors. But at home? He demanded that everyone wait on him at every turn and laud him at every turn while idolizing him as if he himself were "god." And his wife played her role by selling him as Mr. Wonderful Preacher to everyone in the large extended families.
I was / am the daughter-in-law (first DIL in the family, too) who, from the get-go, started recognizing that things weren't as they were claimed to be. The first thing I picked up on (the core dynamic) is that the whole family was held together by a chain of lies - a chain by which they were all held in the family's prison. If they wanted to be "loved" by the parents or each other, each had to do his or her part in upholding the family facade by telling, supporting, or not challenging the liars' narrative. They all knew their roles for performing their Holier Than Though kabuki dance for outsiders. But within? Coersion, abuse, cruelty, slander, backstabbing, ostracism as punishment, and doing everything to satisfy the father's enormous sense of entitlement. (My husband was the rebellious Black Sheep in the family, so he got targeted.)
To this day, though, I struggle with my husband because he - after he hid it well at first - developed his own narcissistic bent from his father's example. It's there, awfully so, but there has been incremental improvement over the decades, particularly since his father died 10 years ago. And then his mother died 2 years ago, and he has been more relaxed (in his good periods...) and even more gingerly honest than I ever saw in the early years.
Now? "Ding Dong, the warlock and the witch are both dead," allowing him to gingerly test the waters of freedom. I don't hope for a lot, but I'm keeping my marriage commitment and standing up strongly for myself, so I at least hope improvement will continue. I've given up on his (all adult) siblings, though. I'm Enemy No. 1 to that whole lot, and after silently putting up with their charade for decades, I've gone No Contact. It's so freeing to give yourself permission to just stop putting up with people who are as dishonest and backstabbing as that twisted bunch.
@@susansheldon2707 your father-in-law sounds exactly like my father. And my sister calls our mother the high priestess of his cult. Ugh! I'm glad your husband is making improvements in that area! It's so hard as adult children raised (and brainwashed) like this to gain freedom and a good sense of self and mental health.
This was my world
My mother was a fun loving extrovert outside the home loved by everyone. Noone would ever believe how she treated me, the scapegoat. She slandered me to everyone. I have no relationship with extended family. They cross the street when they see me. I'm just a rotten kid who hurt my mother to them. Having a mother who hates you is a wound that never heals.
You can get help for healing, there will always be scars. My life did improve as I gained knowledge,help and went no contact with my mother and my flying monkey siblings. You can’t change the past, but you can learn to empower yourself and not be anyone’s victim moving forward. It takes time and work, but worth it. I have been able to leave a let go of caring for a toxic narc husband and employer later down the road. I couldn’t have done that without delving deep into this subject and getting help.
@@ginadean5696 I agree. That is a very supportive answer and post. Thank you.
I am so sorry to hear your story! That is completely heartbreaking to hear );
I’m on your side friend😁😊💙👍
No matter how you move forward, you deserve the love and support you want and need!
This sounds just like my situation.
@@JCTBomb we are the heartbreak (adult) kids
Exactly my family! The weird thing is that they say, I have a problem. I was the family scapegoat.
"You're not allowed to leave."
Several years ago but before I relocated back there for those nearly 5 years, the same half-sister asked me twice if I had any regrets about leaving? The first time she asked me, I answered and thought nothing of it; however when she asked the second time, I said to myself: "There's something there." I shared the experience with my therapist at the time and he completely agreed.
Complaining and putting down is done behind each other's backs, as the scapegoat tho I'm not allowed to have any complaints or hurts. I've always tried to bring it to the person only to be met with devaluation, gaslighting and anger and being accused of starting a fight. Whatever it is, it's my fault. I was also used and discarded by my parents being parentified, which also was used to pit my siblings against me.
Same! No matter how bad you are hurting they simply don’t care );
Truly I know how you feel!
@@JCTBomb I'm so sorry, it's such a deep and and powerful pain that I wouldn't wish on anyone❤️ I hope that you are finding your way to peace and love for yourself.
This describes my family perfectly.
For me too. In my dysfunctional cult family the Golden child married what I believe was a "narcissist in waiting". Now the narc and his enabler both died this new narc claims the position left vacant by deceased narc and is the golden child is "promoted" to the position of the enabler. This looks like the process of passing on these destructive patterns over the generations.
@@therealspixycat it’s mad but seats do get filled
Again, you hit the nail on the head. You must have been raised in a Narcissistic family because your insight in too accurate. I appreciate your videos because I am now able to see that I don't have to feel guilty. I am the child that didn't buy into the lies, and I payed the price. I am 65 and am just now figuring this out.
i am 63 and am the child that never bought into the lies eaither
what a night mare
Your summation of what unifying with a narcissistic family will cost one is dead on. I see that with all, all of my siblings- including the surrogate ones. I will spare you that detail.
However, here is an example of the affect: I have a half-sister (we have the same father) who will be 50 years old soon and still never moved out of her parents' house.
I have lived with this for the last two years from my family. Left my ex after 40years of abuse. My four adult children not only accepted his repulsive behavior but actively participated in it. The lies, deciept, verbal abuse, ostracism, smear campaign, financial coercion was unending until I moved very far away and went no contact. A DVO over him stopped his direct frightening behavior but he still now continues the financial abuse through the lawyers and the kids. Refuses to cooperate on reaching a settlement. But it is the behaviour of my children that actually took away my will to live. I always thought it was like a cult. I still can't get my head around it. They ripped me to shreds each time I tried to explain. I gave up. I was there for all of them every time they needed me, but the only way I can get any closure is to think that they never really had a father and now all of a sudden they have one and he is father of the year. The biggest hurt is not seeing my grandchildren. It kills me but I am hoping one day that will change. To everyone out there going through the same thing I feel your pain and please know that even though the your situation may be different to mine we are so much stronger than we ever thought possible, our character is built on strong foundations and we are not afraid anymore. Love to all. And thankyou Darren
I have to tell you that you are never out of the woods with a sociopath. My parents were sure the divorce was my fault, and my siblings thought it was funny. Eleven year divorce for a six year marriage. $125k-$150k in legal fees, mediation, etc. I have no idea what kinds of things he said to brainwash the kids to make them hate me so much. He would act on anything I would say, beginning with, "Put the seatbelts on them," after which he drove up and down the street with them standing on the seat of his truck. It was dangerous to say anything, and I tried to go no contact, but he got the judge to get all over my case about it. All kinds of crazy stuff went on, with him always smiling. Still, I kept any words to a bare minimum and kept my shades pulled. Fast forward (actually not very fast at all) 27 years, and he shoots a cop in the back for no reason. Plea bargained for life without parole. So what I'm saying is be very quiet and very careful.
God bless you Debbie. I’m so sorry for what you had to experience. I’m also family scapegoat. My x Narc husband aligned himself with my family for his own ego and financial support. Financial abuse with coercive control is agonizing.
Oh wow, I'm just in the first few minutes & you've just perfectly described my husband's large Irish Catholic family. When I first met them I thought they were so amazing & wonderful unlike my own hellish, chaotic family of origin. Slowly through the years I've seen that they are highly problematic as well but so very good at hiding it, appearing to be that wonderful close knit family. My MIL told me once that none of her children ever fought. I was skeptical. Perhaps she just didn't see them but I'm sure that sibling disagreements are normal in any family & it sounds abnormal to say they didn't occur. I realize now why I have always felt like an outsider even after 30 years of being around them, they rarely let the facade fall down. How can you even have a conversation with someone who's always wonderful? Everything's great. Kids, job, it's all good.
Adding to my comment instead of editing because it'd be too lengthy. I wish I'd seen the red flags, because you've perfectly described my own family, the us vs them. My son going no contact, his sister the golden child, not understanding because she has a daddy on a pedestal while still worried about making him angry. It was always us, my son & I against them, my husband & daughter. He created it & perpetrated this dynamic when he referred to me & our son as my maiden names & him & our daughter as his last names. We were lazy, good for nothings while they were hard working, get the job done useful people. What a mess. I love my daughter & I hate how he twisted her & she doesn't even realize it. I'm especially worried when she says she was afraid her bf would be angry or she's worried about him being mad at her.
It's really difficult when you finally come to terms with the fact you were abused as an older adult, because abuse looks normal and when you've gone through it for more than 4 decades then it seems impossible to learn how to recognize what a healthy relationship looks like. I went from being a very outgoing social person to an extreme introvert because when I see red flags then my natural reaction is "Ooh! Party!"
Lol, it's funny because it's true! I'm beginning to see the red flags for what they are, perhaps a bit hypervigilant(sp?) now but I feel allot safer. I'm glad you are starting to see it and wish you the best in your journey❤️
@@thesehandsart Thank you. I'm glad you're able to recognize that red means stop ... hopefully I will get to that point before the grim reaper comes calling.
I wish you a peaceful journey as healing seems to take forever.
It's like you have been a fly on the wall in my life. I thought we were fairly close although I knew my mother was extremely defensive. But actually, all we ever did was talk about the weather, the garden, the roast.......... and my mother will accept *no* feedback. She turns it all around and attacks me, gives me the silent treatment, smears me to the relatives and now that our relationship is destroyed, she blames me. My Dad has supported her every inch of the way. And my brother the apologist sort of gets it intellectually but he's still angry with me! He still blames me, even though he can see that legitimacy of some of my questions to him, eg, how come her 'hurt' is a sign of my badness but my 'hurt' is a sign of my *mad* ness. How come her hurt is real and should shame me but my hurt is a grudge. How come talking directly is too angry but silent treatments are allowed? So! Howdya fix it?! :D
Wow! That's my family too! You put it so clearly, mind if I borrow your words? So requiring to hear I'm not alone, but sad at the same time that others have to go through this too ❤️
Susana the answer to your questions at the bottom of your comment is because your mom is using manipulative tactics such as gaslighting to blame shift and refocus negative attention on Your supposed bad behavior Rather than her own. That's what NPD's do. They use "pity plays" to create guilt to make you feel sorry for them & Make you question yourself to make you feel guilty. As to how you can fix it the experts say there is only one way. NO CONTACT. Unfortunately. You cannot change a narcissist. All you can do is remove yourself permanently. 😰
This is exactly my family. Not that I'm completely there yet, myself, but while reading your description, it crossed my mind to ask you why (not how) you would fix this situation.
I know I'm not perfect, but I also know that, after 5 decades of life and 3 decades of happy marriage, many loving friends and kind co-workers, I only feel consistently confused, disrespected and un-seen in one setting: interactions involving my family of origin. I find it sad, but no longer feel it's appropriate, necessary or even possible for me to keep working at it.
OMG this is my family too. My Mum still refuses to understand that her rage, silent treatments and hostility
towards me whilst I was growing up has screwed up my mind!
I can’t hold down a relationship. Never married or had children.
All she keeps saying now to me is
SELF RESPONSIBILITY!
Like I choose to have CPTSD!!!!
Amen. Keep in mind the “golden children (I got 2 in my childhood; [oldest brother and youngest sister]” are also being abused. They are being enmeshed and basically groomed to listen or else suffer the treatment that the scapegoat or scapegoats are receiving.
I went “no contact” years ago. But for many years before that my oldest brother always actually thought he had some kind of authority over me, just cuz he is the oldest sibling. It’s laughable and pathetic. But he was just doing what his master (my narc mom) told him to do.
So the golden children are basically stuck for life. And us scapegoats get to choose to leave and be great on our own, or in our own way 😊.
"Questions, challenges, are often met with aggression and passive aggression"- Yes I am a witness and explains the coldness that I received on one occasion and hand pointing (rather than finger pointing) that I received on another.
Sir, if I didn't know better, I would swear that you knew my family in the most intimate of ways.
OMG!!! Mr Magee, you've met my family!!!!!!
CULT is the all encompassing word.
Brilliant explanation. I'm a scapegoat too and you've described my mother and her strategy to maintain control and be the centre of attention.
Wow! I have done so much research into WHY all 3 of my adult children (all with children of their own), treat me so badly. Parental alienation? Narcissistic fleas? Narcissistic themselves? My therapist recently made the comment - “it’s like they are all on one side and you are on the other”. The them and us mentality. In your example I am the soon to be ex-partner but also the scapegoat rather than one of my children having that role. From what you stated Darren, that role can be anyone. I filed for divorce almost a year ago and things have been even worse and what you said describes my life right down to almost total isolation and my grands being affected:(. Thank you for these videos!!
I'm curious what you think about narcissists believing their facades. I once told my mum I thought we weren't a close family.... she had a meltdown. tears, crisis, 'how could I say something so hurtful?'. this was before I knew the word narcissism, or realised I was the scapegoat in the narcissistic nest. I was just baffled how something so plain to me seemed to be a genuine surprise to her. I know she knows deep down, but the depth of the delusion is scary.
The delusion is scary. A teen friend told me my mother was like the delusional Blanche in a “Streetcar Named Desire.”
My mother told a story of my graduation once to a big group. The truth is I did not graduate publicly! My diploma was mailed and my mother made the whole story up to fit her ideals. A psychologist told me that example is an extreme form of gaslighting.
Thanks so much Darren! I was the scapegoat and my father was also scapegoated to my mother’s need to covertly be “the perfect parent”. This is my family, and was grateful I was rebellious and left the family to go on my own early. I could never understand why the family thought our family was so “wonderful” in public and home was a giant shit show. I did see the family lie from early on. These videos from wonderful counselors such as your self have been so helpful for understanding a family caught in a hamster wheel of chaos, and I was the healthy one for recognizing the toxic nature. The teacher always appears when the student is ready for the lesson! ❤
Absolutely spot on !
I was the youngest of five. My father was the "common enemy" as set up by my mother. We ALL were against him. She was a fragile little victim ever since I can remember; however, she smothered me. She never wanted to go on family outings, and so would tell me that I had to stay home with her because "they don't want to deal with you." Truth be told, I was a lively kid, and once my oldest sister, the scapegoat, moved out of the house and went no contact, I became the new scapegoat. It wasn't until my mother got Parkinson's and wasn't heard from very much, that I really started to get along with my father. It wasn't until after he was gone that I really put it all together. Recently, I finally invaded his privacy by reading a stack of letters he had written to my mother when they were courting after WWII. It was all right there. He was attending UC Davis, learning about fruit trees and bees, on the GI Bill, about one hour away. She must have written him many letters complaining about him not taking her dancing on Friday nights, because in almost every letter, he was apologizing for being such a heel.
You have described it perfectly, This is what family cult looks like and how it operates. Sadly. Thank you Darren.
U are describing my family so well I'm scared of u. I need to escape from these people
It's frightening to hear what you say and to be able to draw parallels with my own life. Thank you
🙋🏻♀️ That was my childhood: golden child turned into scape goat once I moved out.
Very confusing and hurtful. I’m so glad I finally saw the reality of things.
Hmmm 🤔 I found siblings just took over narcissistic roles after parents passed. We were more united when they were alive. The Golden Child who was furious with them before is now behaving like them. It’s as if they’re still alive through her and her husband. I just can’t deal with with the contempt, devaluing and dominance plays any longer. So painfully disappointing 😢
Im having that experience, my brother is like my mother towards me all over again. Its sickening to watch. I am the scapegoat and uts getting worse. Ive retained a lawyer now so that the lies come to light. My inheritance almost gone before this birthday when i was to come into it. My brother " in charge " of it, putting me thru hoops, saying awful things, ignoring me, contemptuous towards me. Still, id rather be the scapegoat than to be like him,!!!
@@gracedager8683 I’m sorry this is happening. Unfortunately it is more common than one knew. Once aware you can’t unsee it. Glad you’re advocating for yourself. 😌
Excellent description of the parental relationship
My father subtly played my brother and me off each other, even into adulthood. He never said "why can you be more like your brother/sister?" but he knew how to play up what each of us was good at that the other one wasn't. It wasn't until we were in our 40s that I learned that my brother thought *I* was the golden child because I got such good grades. I grew up thinking *he* was the golden child because he did everything our father wanted him to do.
You nailed it Darren. Excellent video.
That was an excellent description of many families including my family of origin.
Thank you very much, I appreciate what this video reveals about narcissistic family dynamics. It is good to know the truth; even if it results in greater difficulty for now, I know life will be much better. I'd like to learn more about enmeshed family relationships.
Thank you for a very informative and supportive video Darren 😊this is exactly what happened in the narcisistic cult type of dynamics I have been targeted by for a couple of years now. These people are drunk on power and control. They are arrogant and corrupt to the core. Sickening.
Narcissistic parents always give wings to fly to one or some of their children but the scapegoat; that one is isolated in order to serve them especially in their elderly years. Siblings will always complain that the scapegoat is not taking proper care of the narcissist because he or she will complain about everything and how lonely they are while the scapegoat is completely devoted to their welfare. Also the siblings living away from the narcissist will attack the caretaker to justify themselves for not caring or visiting the narcissists.
I had a "friend" of the family scowling me after my father died since my narcissistic mother will complain about how lonely she was. The funny thing is that she spent family holidays like Christmas with my family, not hers.
She had to take care for her parents when her only brother died, something she was not used to it. Surprisingly, she apologized to me for blaming me of not taking care of my mother after that.
People think that taking care of others is an easy thing and don't understand the caretaker needs time to disconnect or they will become ill. By the way, the scapegoat is even blamed for falling ill too. Narcissists believe you fall ill in order to bother them. Scapegoats are viewed as not entitled to have human rights.
@iklijkwelgekmetmijneigennaam
Thank you. I went contac 4 years ago and still healing. I thought I would get up on my feet right away but I didn't know how hurted I'm. It's been almost 6 decades of abuse. I think I'm going to be healing for the rest of my life. It seems like an endless process.
Take care.
True statement. What to do ? All these are well preserved chaos. The master brain always play triangulation amongst the entire families. Even society where we interact with. Secretly happy about our indicate situations.
There's those words- trauma bonded.
Nice to see You, Darren!! Great Thanks!!👍🌞🎁💗🍀⚜️😊🌈⚓!!🌼
A big part of the market Hallmark cards is still missing out on.
Lol!! 😂
Sir, that's exactly how deeply felt and told my former therapist via text message. I definitely felt like an outsider. This video has truly brought understanding regarding why I received the negative energy that I had.
Very well defined and articulated. Your insight plus transparency and honesty is helping many people no doubt.
This is validating to me. I lived exactly as you describe. Excellent explanation, much appreciated.
I have lived what you are describing, and despite being kindred, as I grew older, I could tell something was missing- still is. That's why I am in Tennessee and they are in Maryland. Wouldn't take anymore.
"Entitled to behave anyway they want"- Yes and I concur.
cult is the perfect way to explain how a narcissist family operates.
the echo in my mind ...... what happens in this house, behind closed doors .... is nobody's business .... sad and alone, we would play the perfect 'happy family' to all outsiders....
Oh my good. So true. This is/was my family. Sadly no one beside myself escaped or even reunited.
Thank you is insufficient in expressing my gratitude for what you gave in this video and all of your videos for that matter. You are helping and healing people who you may never meet.
As a kid I wasn't aware of terms like psedomutuality and narcissism but one thing I felt was my family system was not exactly healthy cuz of the way my siblings were pitted against each other and constantly compared. If I pointed out that we were all quite different and there was no point comparing I was immediately punished as a troublemaker and my siblings too thought I was evil and bad. Since I was a child, I too started having doubts and got confused about who I really was, was I evil and bad? Things got way too much for me so I ran away when I was 19. I am glad I did cuz my 2 siblings have both become narcs with no interest in self awareness and who still gang up against me and have started their own families with the very same system. The 2 siblings are always fiercely competitive with each other and everyone around them constantly comparing themselves and their kids to others. One of the kids even tried to commit suicide and the other too has become a full blown narc. For me, that is an exhausting way to live.
I wish them on their birthdays, meet them in family get togethers, but that too is already way too exhausting.
The "Knight in Shiney Armor" is Actually the Most Scary Person Not at All the Savior they Pretend to Be....
This is why I love Everybody loves Raymond! It's so true to life.
Never saw it in my birth family but, when we had children, this behaviour came out in my husband.
I’d say I unwittingly covered up for him for years until I eventually realised my situation was abusive. That’s an extra layer of guilt, I can tell you.
It’s people interacting with constructed selves, never seeing the true person. It’s complete identification with form, not essence
Perfect description.
"Caring, loving, and fair"- This exactly how she came across in a voicemail. I speak of my mother. By this time I had relocated back to Tennessee, where life was better in every sense. I changed my phone number the same day of the voicemail.
Darren - took this to my therapist. She loved your explanation/comments. As I stated in a previous comment I am dealing with this ; it is so spot on. There is very very little about parents with adult children who DONT ever change and it is the worse thing I have ever dealt with. Can you please do a video on how this does play out, ie why it never ends. Than you again!
just my 2 cents
it never ends because they will never change
Thanks for your two cents Carol. Yes, you are correct as I don’t see this changing after this length of time.
@@winter-qd4yw i just watched my narc psychopath dad pass away at the age of 91 he never softened or else admitted to recognizing the errors of his ways he was ice cold to my mother and to us children my mom and dad never devorced my mother passed at 54 she just couldn't take any more the way it played out for him was nothing changed
It is possible that the Parents pass away, but there is one grown up child who seems particularly narcissistic. The other grown up children unite against this individual, however give the dynamics of narcissistic families this individual then becomes the brunt of unkind jokes, ostracized, etc....in effect they become the Scapegoat and the narcissistic dynamics continues?
My boundaries and calling out the abuse is punished by silent treatment from all my siblings and sister in law. My mother is a master covert manipulator and my father is an overt aggressive narcissist and actually I see them all as severely mentally ill people. It’s sad that I have to cut them all out of my life, especially my mother, but the alternative is that my mental health will continue to decline if I stay in contact with them. It’s a toxic soup that the sane person must jump out of.
Another nice explanation. I would like that you continue with what you mentioned at the end - children vs narcissistic parents. I used to have a colleague whom I know is a mother - she has a daughter - but I'm very afraid for the well-being of that child. 😟
Soo good. You helped me sort a lot out. I’ve watched many N vids looking for someone that feels right. Maybe feels loving and not hateful. I think you’re just delightful.
I have to say, I’ve not heard one put together this way, explaining the family like you did. I’ve been listening every night. Your videos leave me feeling thoughtful and sorted a bit better, it’s been several days and the better seems to be sticking day to day. It must be the spirit you do it with. And your voice is lovely as well. 😊
How wonderful it would be to have an Irish accent 😆 sincerely. It’s extra loving to the ear for some reason, my only conclusion is it must just be the people speakin with it.
Actually now that I’m thinking and have been reading family history lately, who knows, maybe looking for help from beyond, lol ( but they say thinking of them draws them near, I’ve tried it, I think it’s why I’m on this journey, their help)
Anyhow, one of my great grandfathers was born in Ireland. I feel happy for that.
You’ve helped me greatly good sir.
I believe the spirit you teach with fosters learning by the spirit. And that’s why I feel more enlightened and hopeful after your videos. I’m glad to have found you and thank you, really, thank you for being lovely and true.
Yup this is 100% accurate. I've been the target and it's an ugly experience.
Very accurate, thanks very much.
Good channel, you've really helped my family.
Well, they couldn't unite against me, because when I went back after 3 years for vacation, I didn't go to see any of them and will not in the future. Between childhood and what I saw after basically 30 years away when I relocated for nearly 5 years, I have concluded that nothing will ever change. No contact means no conflicts.
6:25 I married into an evangelical family cult dynamic as a military member with Buddhist on my dog tags. I escaped with my life and little else....
All very true, thank you!
This is the best one on explaining my experience ❤
Great video!
This is my family.
Thanks for the video and knowledge as always Darren! Also, like the stubble 👌
Thank you so much for this information!
Thank you.
Spot on sir, spot on 👏
Thx you Darren 💖
As always ✔️✔️✔️all the boxes 😁💖🙏🏻💖
I’m part of one these families, the lies & abuse get more outrageous.
Dangerous people
Thank you again for all your help these videos help. Tremendously
Thank you so much for this video.
I wish I could fully explain how right this is. My son was weaponised against me by having him “parentified”. He was used as interrogation weapon to break me down on many occasions. I have reams of secret notes on the abuse that I have been subjected to, they are secret because I am not allowed to have one. They are deemed to be “the ramblings of a madman”.
wow - I've often described my religious upbringing as the church of (mom's name). And I eventually came to use the word, "cult," to describe it. Especially because there seldom was an actual church she approved of - but we were supposed to be some ideal of her version of "normal" (I wasn't normal; I was Dumb Ass and then some). Everything you outline here is the exact description of our family - and extends to the grandchildren. and pseudohostility? No, I think she sit there inventing others' faults and thinking up ways to either not be friends (though she's very friendly and pleasant) or to plan ways to stir up trouble or just go off on them (behind the scenes, of course)... It'slike her life needs a poor little victim, a hero, a villain, a ne'er do well, a misfit, and a chief promoter (flying monkey) to adore her and it doesn't matter how you actually are; nshe just seems to arbitrarity assign the roles.
You're dead on regarding a former romantic interest. It was common to hear about her fabrications regarding why things with went south.
I was the child who my mother would come to with all the drama, drama that she ultimately created by her parenting style.
This is my family. My mother split her children, Golden Child, Scapegoat and Lost Child/Mascot. I am no contact w Golden Child. Parents and Scapegoat have passed on.
Have you written any books on Narcissist parents or spouses, looking forward to read one.
Very good. Thanks
Darren your spot on in every respect, me iam the outsider the enemy against the cult "the TOXIC collective)😵
Darren, if one was to summize the "general theme" of this segment one could note "A Narcissist will shift an "enabler" into a more powerful position if they are receiving a healthy feed of "SUPPLY". This can involve (as you have stated) a range of behaviours and strategies which are not admissible information into the current systems involved with the accountably for someone's actions. 🤔
Spot on.
Great video. Happy new year!
Thank you and to you Tegan
My mother "I was jealous whe your father took you out for the day at christmas", also my my mother when I was hurt or physically injured "I don't remember that". Pathetic and selfish