Three of the churches here locally (all in the same township) disaffiliated within the past several years. Two of them had to get attorneys because they had built nice fellowship halls using all local money. My brother attends one of those and said since they cut ties their church is growing with lots of young people coming.
I as well had serious questions as a teenager working thru confirmation. BTW... It is NOT liberal, it is Leftist. There is a difference. Jesus was a Liberal, George Washington was a liberal. In the 70's, Leftists started using the term "Liberal" as a sheepskin to hide their evil. We did not pay proper attention to that.
Oh, my God, Liberal! You mean they supported things like Social Security, unemployment insurance, Medicare/Medicaid, gender equality., voting rights, etc. Well, I say, write to your representatives in Congress and demand these woke programs and regulations be repealed. You can fend for yourself ok without this Marxist, Communist, Fascist, Liberal garbage. But before you do this, take a good look at your financial situation. Good luck.
Over the Holidays, I heard a conversation between my grandkids. One of them who is a fairly sincere, caring kid asked, "...do you need to be gay in order to go to the Methodist Church"? I was stunned.
The current UMC is filled with people who chose to embrace anti God directives . They have opened themselves to Gods wrath . The members who loved God and believed His word ( Bible ) to not be subject to man’s opinions , were FORCED out .
A church is not a building, it's the people who worship together in unity. Stay together and find another building and keep the family together. It's better to preach God's word in a rented facility than meet in a building claimed by a denomination that has strayed from His word.
What is bad here with Irvington is, That UMC never helped us, We / They / The church paid its own bills, The church own the building and land, It was the people's church that was built in the early 1900's and stolen from us the members. UMC is purely evil, and its not god will!
@@thejonesfamily4660 Left with nothing? Let's see, you have God, prayer, a congregation, and hopefully some leadership and ideas. Perhaps you may also be blessed with generous donors. I also hope that you have the will to move on and work hard to re-establish your church in another location. There are churches that are looking for other congregations to share their buildings so that they themselves can carry on, however you may have to hold afternoon services. If you disburse and give up just because you lack a building, you are only playing into Satan's hands.
My earliest years were spent in Methodism. It’s where I met Christ, and is why these podcasts intersect me. In 1970 my parents decided to leave perceiving threats to true teaching brought on by the 1968 merger. I was 13 when we left. Fast forward to today. I’ve been active 26 years in a non-denominational congregation with Assemblies of God ties since 1998. My wife and I were founding members. Our congregation also had no money in the bank at the start. For six years we lacked a stable meeting place. Instead we rented hotel conference areas, spaces in public schools, and even a theater in the Student Union at the University of Oklahoma. In 2004 we were blessed to settle into rented space in a section of a fence manufacturing company. Interestingly, we were not the first church to meet there! That was home until January, 2018 when we moved into new construction. The point of this story is that occupying rented structures, even for a long time, is not only possible, but can have benefits with regards to development of faith and perseverance. I hope no other church has to wait so long, but God does meet needs if we remain confident and patient.
When they decided to go down the road described in Romans 1 what is happening was inevitable, and like 5 of the churches in Revelation 2 & 3 their candlestick has been removed because of the error they embraced. My advice is for those who can't disaffiliate to attend and support one of those congregations that did.
Am Israel Chai! שמע ישראל יה אלהינו יה אחד! I believe ישוע המשיח the Torah-observant, Torah teaching Mashiach who taught t’shuvah and to return to the ways of Adonai, to keep Hashem’s mitzvot once again and live in obedience to Adonai. Salvation ישוע is His name. Gentile God-fearers love the God of Avraham, Yitz’chak, and Ya’akov! He is El Elyon, El Shaddai, Adonai Tzva’ot! ישוע אור העלם Israel will live forever, this is Hashem’s promise… salvation is of the Jews… if it weren’t for ישוע we from the goyim would not know אדני. Let us restore Torah to its rightful place just as happened when your forefathers came out of captivity and the scrolls were rediscovered by the high priest Hilkiah. Our leaders should have to read it when they first take office just as was required of the kings of Israel when they first became king. Our leaders should also have to write their own copy of the Torah. It would stave off wokeness and insanity… Perhaps, as God said, if we humbled ourselves before Him then will He hear from Heaven and will begin to heal our lands. Jew and Gentile, One Nation under God, Indivisible…
2 Timothy 4:3 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears; 4 And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.
@@JohnParks-zc1pn WRONG!!! The churches ARE being stolen from "The Church" and are being converted into the ownership of an apostate organization. The People own the church by ethics and by morality. If the Apostasy wants to take the property, this is exactly what it looks like. If it quacks like a duck.....
@@kristenspencer9751 Believers are the Church. Agreed that the church is simply real estate. It is still a great injustice and a great evil that the property that this local congregation pulled out of the dirt is being taken from them. It is also agreed that this was known from the foundation of the world to be the story of these believers. We stand against the evil and injustice and likewise know that we do not battle against flesh and blood.
The Presbyterian Church USA denomination did this twenty years ago. In 1983 it had 3.1 million members. Today there are less than 1million. The denomination is literally dying off. They have a top heavy staff at their main office in Louisville, KY, who are holding on to get their pensions, which come from the assets and endowments they seized from local churches. Good riddance when the denomination is finally gone.
Anyone may leave a church whenever they like. Just get up and walk out.. or, never return. Forget your money, your stuff, your plans. Keep your soul. Leave those people alone.
I was raised in a UMC in Wheeling WV, In the early 60's it was standing room only every Sunday morning. We had dozens of teens in the youth group. By the mid 70's they were less than half of the pews filled and we were down to about a dozen at the Sunday night youth group. The WORD that was being preached changed almost 180 and families started to leave.
They did that to our church 25 years ago. We had already at the time lost long time members and their extended families due to the 'far left' ideology of the top brass in the UMC. Our beloved church was SOLD for development! All of my parents time and commitment, as well as consistent financial support wasted! My parents, grandparents and extended family were all Methodist Church members. The decline of this once great church, founded in AMERICA, is shocking. John Wesley must be crying in heaven.
Your parents' time, commitment, and financial support were not wasted if it helped bring people to Christ. The buildings and land are no different from treasure laid up on earth, where moth and rust attack them. The true fruits of your parents' actions will be found in heaven.
As pastor of two churches that disaffiliated the UMC the amount needed to leave was excessive, but I am finding that many in the pews had no idea what was happening in the denomination. They did not keep up to date nor did their pastor let them know. Sad what has happened and what continues to happen, but I am not surprised at the draconian tactics being used by UMC leaders.
@@Timbrock1000 in this case I don't know how they get around that except to say they knew the church could not afford to sue so they just did what they wanted which has plagued the UMC leadership for years. If the church had the deed in hand, as their pastor I would have sought it in the courts.
@robertwynn5844 Ok. I'm guessing the UMC must have become one of the deed holders when the church joined UMC, and had a clause in the contract with the (individual) church allowing them ownership and control of the property if the association was to be severed. Yes, it shows me the UMC is more bent on power, control, and spreading their ideology than spreading the word of God. ☹️
@@robertwynn5844 When all of this began, I asked if it was possible to become an Independent Methodist Church. The only way that would be allowed is to buy the property from our "district" of the UMC. It was news to me. There was to be a vote to remain a United church, or become a Global church. The members of my church did not make the decision, the executive committee did. I left that church after being a member for over fifty years.
By coincidence, a week ago, I ran into a progressive acquaintance who's part of the liberal UMC conference bureaucracy in my area. I mentioned to him that i was disappointed that so many churches chose to not disaffliate. His response shocked me: He said, no, we lost about 20%, which leaves us at just over 1800 remaining churches "which is still several hundred too high". These guys are diabolical: they just lost hundreds of churches and now want to shutter and sell off hundreds more
I have the deepest empathy for these believers who been ousted from their building. I was raised in an Assembly of God church but after marriage and moving, with only UMC and Protestant churches in my vicinity, I joined a UMC church near me and after that closed I joined the Presbyterian church that later merged and closed. After moving further away and years searching for a church home, I’ve found it. Fortunately they disaffiliated and joined the GMC and I’ll be pursuing membership to officially join the spring.
"It is impossible to introduce into society a greater evil than this: the conversion of the law into an instrument of plunder." -Frederic Bastiat, 1850
It went right down the line of the major Denominational churches going woke....Pastor Jezzibel lead them to destruction homosexual pastors, homosexual marriages, remove the Bibles......ecological, social and political issues more important, etc Episcopal first then Presbyterian then Evangelical Lutheran Now Methodist. Some United Church of Christ
Out where I live, a Methodist church was established at a log cabin in 1850. A building for the church was built in 1869, and stands to this day. The congregation decided to jump ship, as they've refused to take a knee to the rainbow. I've never attended, but know people who do. It's quite the nightmare for them.
Same here. I attended a Methodist church for many years. We saw the writing on the wall and left for the SBC about 8 years ago. This particular church disassociated with the Methodist a couple years ago.
@SMaamri78 The SBC has the same vulnerable denominational structure. It's best to simply become an independent congregational assembly of the Lord's body and dump all theological creeds. The New Testament is a wholly sufficient creed in and of itself.
I visited a local UMC a few months ago. There were 7 people in attendance. All but one was over 70. A year ago I visited another UMC. Of the 20 in attendance, most all were over 70. It won’t be long before they cease to exist.
As an RC who served as an organist in a Methodist church for 17 years. I was always amused and surprised how with regards to property, the Methodist Church's property provisions and regulation and pastoral appointments were more Catholic than the pope, although these days for many Catholics that is no longer a joke. Here is the Catholic playbook I have seen in action as our parishes have been closed: we are constantly told "you are the church' until it conflicts with their schemes for property management and the necessity of paying off legal settlements, while ensuring the bureaucracy still maintains its lifestyle. Ideology enters in when the decision is made to close a beautiful historic church that reminds Catholics of what they once believed in favor of Bauhaus barn, multipurpose worship space that aesthetically manipulates one into the spirt of nonjudgemental modernism. Of course, no one ever asks why the churches are emptying out. The culture is always blamed. I have been though one closing and two collaborations where the Methodist adage that when you join parishes you just prolong the death of both, rang in my ears. The bureaucratic gaslighting that accompanies this is smooth and professional. I am convinced that upper-level church bureaucracies learn their techniques from the same Snake oil salesmen. So much of what you said here is so familiar to me as a Catholic. Isn't ecumenism wonderful!
@@medbob1 The Devil hates us all, indiscriminately, our theological differences matter not. He sees the forest not the trees. Denominations are irrelevant in Hell.
I too grew up RC. I had to get a letter of permission to marry my Byzantine wife of now 57 years, in 1967. She had to sign a paper pledging to raise our children RC. This was in Pennsylvania. During our marriage we endured four local parish closings, and the clergy scandles of the church. Covid-19 closed all of the churches in PA of worship services in 2020. It also opened a window of opportunity for us. We moved to SC that year and bought a camp ground. We have not looked back.
Interesting you should share this from a Catholic perspective, as I was thinking how the UMC tactics resemble changes to Catholic churches I’ve observed in my city. Many smaller parishes have closed and been consolidated into centralized facilities. One of the new places is in within a mile of our residence and another is about five miles away. The latter caters to Asian constituents. Consolidations of this type are a very corporate move to gain economies of scale by reducing maintenance and operations costs, and scale back “human resource” requirements (e.g. priests and pastors.) All this pushes costs to the congregants as they bear the financial expense of longer transit and more travel time which often translates to less interpersonal interaction, study and prayer time, and decreased influence in local communities/neighborhoods.
I hate having to give a thumbs up to reports like this, as what you're telling us is so distressing, but I do thank you for keeping us informed on the crimes of the leadership of the UMC.
My guess is they think by selling all these buildings they can stay afloat financially. There isn't a huge market for church buildings. Unless it is a developer looking for land. Sonner or later they are going to be out of buildings to seize. Then what, they finally close their doors. At the end of all this it is all about the money. It has become their master.
In our local community of just under 10,000, the largest UMC congregation saw over 1/2 of its membership leave when the UMC went woke with the homosexual issues. Two UMC churches closed very shortly there after as members left (for the same reason) and the few remaining members could not afford to keep the doors open. It is a shame...but fulfills prophecy concerning the end times.
I'm beyond saddened at what the UMC has done and are doing! Thankfully our 150 yr old church dissaffiliated. To see this horrible misuse of something John Wesley established to help save churches being twisted like this is heartbreaking 😢 💔
There have ALWAYS been warnings of false teachers in the Bible. God is allowing this to happen for a reason, and those who will side with Truth and those who will wimp out and take the easiest road with the less stress and strife...will separate each to their own camps. And those who side with Truth are beacons of light.
We`re going thru the same thing here. Will most likely be closing the doors by early summer, finding a place to rent for services & go forward. As I rent the parsonage, .I`m having to leave my home also after 9 years. Am finding out just how awful rental property prices are right now. God`s gotta be so very sad right now...He can say "It`s Time" any day now as far as I`m concerned..I am sooooo ready! God bless us all
God Bless and guide you as you search for a new Church family.......Bible based non-denominational churches are STILL thriving. I would steer clear of the MEGA-churches with showy charismatic pastors.
@@avgejoeschmoe2027 Thank you! Thankfully our small church family is staying together as a Bible Believing church along with our pastor`s other church (we`re both small) so I feel that good things are gonna happen for us as we unite as one church family. Appreciate the prayers!
It isn't just UMC churches that are being forcibly closed. The members of my church were "dischurched" and lost their building, but had the grace to set up a non-denominational church down the street. I don't understand the modern "Christian" church's obsession with closing churches.
I have a bible and that's all I need. They can take your building but not your faith. I don't need someone with a bunch of degrees and letters after their name that they got at seminary school telling me what the bible says and means. Remember, judgement will come for all.
Our UMC church founded in 1834 left at the cost of our hymnals and a preacher. Two of the members now preach. The First United Methodist in our town lost its financial support from the richest family and is reportedly in dire financial straits.
D James Kennedy faced a very similar situation with the PCUSA. His strategy was to mortgage the building to the eyeballs. They wound up owing much more than the building was worth. PCUSA was then not interested in taking the building from them and they pulled out of the PCUSA and joined the PCA.
This seemed to start ; at our Methodist church , anyway , in the mid sixties ; when I was a kid; with the I’m OK; You’re OK” movement/ philosophy . Sad , as it was a thriving place , as I remember .
This is why Baptists who left the liberalized Northern Baptist Convention (now American Baptist) about a century ago stayed independent. They joined fellowships but never a denomination.
I was a UMC Pastor for 23 years. Now retired and no longer attending a United Methodist Church. It is a total sham. The U.M.C conference has not put money into the upkeep and expenses of the local churches for years. The United Methodist Church is a funeral waiting to happen!
I belong to an E-Free church. Evangelical Free Church of America. We are governed and supported by our members. The congregation votes on issues. And if we decide to leave we the members own the property. We do have an association we can go to for advice, etc.
Thank you for that information I do not belong to the United Methodist Church I was born and brought up in the Assembly of God however this information is extremely important to know because it's going to be happening in multiple denominations if not already
There are so many wonderful, Bible preaching, Jesus following, non-denominational churches. These churches on fire, have wonderful kid ministries, and don’t have to follow the rules of any national organization. It’s about praising God, freely and wholeheartedly.
My friend's husband is Methodist, and this same thing happened to the church community he was part of. I am not sure what he will do or where he will go.
This action would not happen to a Southern Baptist Church since every local Baptist church is a unit unto themselves and is totally owned by the members. If they disagree with actions taken by the Southern Baptist Convention, they just ignore the Convention and go on. They might be disaffiliated by the convention but nobody can take their property.
Greetings. I was the pastor of Irvington United Methodist Church until they were denied officially and I left, along with my wife, to pastor in the Global Methodist Church. I continued to work with their lay leader, as a friend, to look over paperwork and help them in prayer during their process. Unfortunately, the annual conference just simply did not care. They are still meeting in a different building and looking to the future in God's grace. If you'd like to talk more about it, message me and I'd be happy to give ya the story.
Same thing happened to my in-laws church. The church members had just finished a large remodel and paid for the expansion through the congregation. The Reformed Church of America said if you don’t embrace our philosophy we’re taking your building and that’s just what RCA did.
As a lot of commenters have said in different ways, losing a church building, especially one that has been a spiritual home to generations, is undoubtedly painful. It represents a tangible link to cherished memories, service, and worship over many years. However, the true essence of the church transcends physical structures. It's not a destination, but a living, breathing community of faith. It's the collective body of believers-those who love God, extend that love to their neighbors, and even offer grace to their enemies-that truly embodies the church.
Any church, and I mean any, should not he left or right. They are houses of God and should be neutral to earthly politics. In this they are destroying their true purpose.
True! And the unavailability from the Roman Catholic Church to understand that from the mid XIX century onward is very well said to be blamed over its all, sadly! Now it is just a question of time till both liberal and conservative Churches alike will both to be EMPTY like they should be and then, perhaps, one day anyone will restart Christianity from scratch like someone has done in the last decades with paganism!
I respectfully disagree with you. The left not only backs, but celebrates everything GOD hates. Did you not hear about the murder of preborn babies outside the Democratic National Convention? They are truly the party of satan. Believe me, I’m not real happy with the Republican Party either. Many of them only seem to care about their position. I believe we still need to vote for the party that is the least evil.
Well...there's a left and right in scripture. God's right hand and His left...you don't want the Left, trust me! In the Bible, the "Left" would be the pharisees (they are false believers using "religion" for their own power, control and profit) The Bible also speaks against licentiousness...which we see a lot of in churches today. We see LGBTQ+ as 'ok'...God made them this way, they say! OR that it's OK to be one as long as you don't practice the deeds. They teach Jesus as a social justice warrior, not as a savior. They are weak on the doctrine of Hell. May even be pro-abortion. So YES, there is such a thing as left and right in the Bible.
You blame the UMC for using some "trust" clause. The real blame belongs to the whole idea of a connectional church, where individual congregations are not autonomous.
I understand that although the UMC is still a large organization, the reality is they are hemorrhaging. I wonder if it has occurred to the denomination that as a non-profit organization, when they have to dissolve because of all of the real estate liabilities and costs they are accruing, their remaining assets must be allocated to another no -profit, or donated. Point being they aren’t going to keep these properties forever. This is sad and certainly not Kingdom focused.
Please pray against what is happening in South Africa and Europe. Churches who struggle financially, are bought and turned into pubs and mosques (deliberately I might add). It is such a tragedy.
In the summer of 2023 the UMC had a series of sermon topics that addressed current issues such as inclusion, LGBT (the church I was attending didn't mention Q oddly enough), race, women, etc. The minister at the church where I went that summer said during one of his sermons that the church hasn't done a very good job of keeping up with the world and that needed to change going forward. I felt like running out but told myself to stay and be a witness. Then this past summer I was in a Sunday School class that was studying the history of Israel's kings. This was when I found out that the class members don't believe that the Bible is the Word of God. They said it was written by fallible men and was to be generally discounted. I asked where they got their authority on what the church is to teach and they said that if it came from Jesus Himself, you could believe that but any other statements in the Bible were just commentary and okay to disregard as far as doctrine. Their words. I left.
It's a shame that for ages somebody is always trying to change what the bible says. It was perfect as written. But some want it changed to conform to their new ideas of how we should live and think. Same in politics too. The USA has a constitution. It, like the bible is prefect. Now people want to come along and change it. I can't imagine being taught for Sixty years one way in church only to go next Sunday and be told "Oh by the way, now we want you to believe this other way now" !
Your video didn't say where Irvington was, I live in Indianapolis where there is a part of town called Irvington which has an Irvington UMC. I looked at the Facebook post and figured out you were referring to a church by the same name in Alabama.
Granted, this is a sad tragedy but understand too that God has His winnowing strategy. He has trimmed the tree throughout history. Israel is a good example to examine. So, when Christians won't discipline themselves to break from ungodliness, God does it for them in often unexpected ways. Take heart! It isn't over yet.
Epworth umc in sel.a v.a. no love or sympathy from the top were out of money .we ask if we could sell our 200 00 thousand dollar parsonage .to keep our church aflote..and our big brick church there taking it all .they don't care about our community this should be 9 or 10 church in our little county is this happening in other countys
Could you just approach the central administration and ask them: how is it better if churches close than stay open? Is that a trick question or just the question a child could ask?
The members are free to form their own independent church. Rent or buy a building, select a pastor, write a statement of faith, and start holding services.
True, I attend a non-denominational church that started by home Bible studies, then lease a small office space in a strip mall, then a stand alone building as the Lord added to the numbers as He saw fit. Amazing to focus on God and His Word and let the Holy Spirit fill and gift people for His purpose!
The church I attend used to be a Methodist church. I know the minister was against what all was going on. So they left and started their own church. They were able to buy back the church years later. My neighbor attends a Methodist Church, but works at another one. She is thinking about leaving the one she attends to go to the one where she works. That one is currently trying to leave. I don't know all the particulars of what's going on.
we've had several Methodist churches change affiliations in this area over the last decade, some of this is caused by declining interest in standard religion
This is the first I've heard of this. I wonder if other denominational or even non-denominational churches are doing this as well? I'm speaking specifically of churches involved in the New Apostolic Reformation (NAR)?
As much as I’d like to say how wrong this is I suspect the Lutheran church I belong to may have similar caveats. We have gone through similar pains as one of our fellow Synods moved left, this caused formation of a new Synod with some churches being able to affiliate with the new or one of the existing Synods
If these congregations were scripturally organized being totally autonomous this would not occur. They should dissociate from the doctrines of men and go back to the Bible.
Not a Methodist, but I have a basic question...What would happen if the local church just refused? What if they did a "sit-in" and forced the UMC to physically remove them? What a news item that would be! It might wake them up, but as long as people go quietly, the UMC will continue to do what they do. I think it would be good also for the remaining UMC members to become more aware what their leaders are doing. Maybe, just maybe, some UMC members will hear the Holy Spirit and will rebel against their own evil leadership.
Forgive my ignorance. What I don't understand is if the land and buildings are owned by the local congregations how can the denomination make them close ? Did the churches sign over the buildings to the denomination headquarters ? Frankly, until some twit from the HQ arrives, the congragants ought to keep the church open !
Gay man here... This is unacceptable. The property should stay with the people. Although I personally believe that UMC as a denomination should fail, aka "Go woke, go broke," I realize this is probably exactly what the Left wants to happen.
Now maybe we can get past denomination and seek God for an outpouring of the Holy Ghost, just like the day of Pentecostal, and Azusa street revival. We're hungry God, we need you, we want you!
While the UMC is about as apostate as they come, get out of ANY church that is part of a denomination. Go to an independent bible-teaching church. Not one that teaches about the bible, one that teaches FROM the bible.
They had the opportunity to disaffiliate, didn’t happen for reasons you don’t mention, you may have the whole story. UMC are closed for reasons of economy not their belief structure
Three of the churches here locally (all in the same township) disaffiliated within the past several years. Two of them had to get attorneys because they had built nice fellowship halls using all local money. My brother attends one of those and said since they cut ties their church is growing with lots of young people coming.
👏👏👏🙏🏻🙏🏻🙏🏻
Wonderful
I left the Methodist church DECADES ago. They were turning liberal when I was a kid in the 60s, and they've gone full fruit fly since.
I as well had serious questions as a teenager working thru confirmation.
BTW... It is NOT liberal, it is Leftist. There is a difference. Jesus was a Liberal, George Washington was a liberal. In the 70's, Leftists started using the term "Liberal" as a sheepskin to hide their evil. We did not pay proper attention to that.
YUP! happening to a lot of churches. They are letting the culture dictate the Gospel!! Total loss.
i did in 1980's, left the church
Oh, my God, Liberal! You mean they supported things like Social Security, unemployment insurance, Medicare/Medicaid, gender equality., voting rights, etc. Well, I say, write to your representatives in Congress and demand these woke programs and regulations be repealed. You can fend for yourself ok without this Marxist, Communist, Fascist, Liberal garbage. But before you do this, take a good look at your financial situation. Good luck.
FRUIT FLY. hehe
Over the Holidays, I heard a conversation between my grandkids. One of them who is a fairly sincere, caring kid asked, "...do you need to be gay in order to go to the Methodist Church"? I was stunned.
Out of the mouth of babes
The current UMC is filled with people who chose to embrace anti God directives . They have opened themselves to Gods wrath . The members who loved God and believed His word ( Bible ) to not be subject to man’s opinions , were FORCED out .
That is correct.
But the seperation is showing who is about The Lords work and pleasing mankind. Amen
Now you know why GMC churches jumped "early" they feared they would be trapped.
A church is not a building, it's the people who worship together in unity. Stay together and find another building and keep the family together. It's better to preach God's word in a rented facility than meet in a building claimed by a denomination that has strayed from His word.
Unfortunately the conference also takes every penny in the bank account so you are literally left with nothing…our church is facing similar issues
What is bad here with Irvington is, That UMC never helped us, We / They / The church paid its own bills, The church own the building and land, It was the people's church that was built in the early 1900's and stolen from us the members. UMC is purely evil, and its not god will!
@@thejonesfamily4660 Left with nothing? Let's see, you have God, prayer, a congregation, and hopefully some leadership and ideas. Perhaps you may also be blessed with generous donors. I also hope that you have the will to move on and work hard to re-establish your church in another location. There are churches that are looking for other congregations to share their buildings so that they themselves can carry on, however you may have to hold afternoon services. If you disburse and give up just because you lack a building, you are only playing into Satan's hands.
My earliest years were spent in Methodism. It’s where I met Christ, and is why these podcasts intersect me. In 1970 my parents decided to leave perceiving threats to true teaching brought on by the 1968 merger. I was 13 when we left. Fast forward to today. I’ve been active 26 years in a non-denominational congregation with Assemblies of God ties since 1998. My wife and I were founding members. Our congregation also had no money in the bank at the start. For six years we lacked a stable meeting place. Instead we rented hotel conference areas, spaces in public schools, and even a theater in the Student Union at the University of Oklahoma. In 2004 we were blessed to settle into rented space in a section of a fence manufacturing company. Interestingly, we were not the first church to meet there! That was home until January, 2018 when we moved into new construction. The point of this story is that occupying rented structures, even for a long time, is not only possible, but can have benefits with regards to development of faith and perseverance. I hope no other church has to wait so long, but God does meet needs if we remain confident and patient.
When they decided to go down the road described in Romans 1 what is happening was inevitable, and like 5 of the churches in Revelation 2 & 3 their candlestick has been removed because of the error they embraced. My advice is for those who can't disaffiliate to attend and support one of those congregations that did.
I am a Jew who loves Christians, and i 100% support you in the battle fro tradition and against wokeism. thanks..
Centrist Christian and I agree.
I am a Christian who love Jews, and I appreciate your support.
Am Israel Chai! שמע ישראל יה אלהינו יה אחד! I believe ישוע המשיח the Torah-observant, Torah teaching Mashiach who taught t’shuvah and to return to the ways of Adonai, to keep Hashem’s mitzvot once again and live in obedience to Adonai. Salvation ישוע is His name. Gentile God-fearers love the God of Avraham, Yitz’chak, and Ya’akov! He is El Elyon, El Shaddai, Adonai Tzva’ot! ישוע אור העלם Israel will live forever, this is Hashem’s promise… salvation is of the Jews… if it weren’t for ישוע we from the goyim would not know אדני. Let us restore Torah to its rightful place just as happened when your forefathers came out of captivity and the scrolls were rediscovered by the high priest Hilkiah. Our leaders should have to read it when they first take office just as was required of the kings of Israel when they first became king. Our leaders should also have to write their own copy of the Torah. It would stave off wokeness and insanity…
Perhaps, as God said, if we humbled ourselves before Him then will He hear from Heaven and will begin to heal our lands.
Jew and Gentile, One Nation under God, Indivisible…
2 Timothy 4:3 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears; 4 And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.
Thanks for the heads up... Nothing says Evangelism like closing churches... Basically stealing churches from their members... Sad state of affairs.
No the churches are not being "stolen." The trust clause was known to all when the property was acquired.
@@JohnParks-zc1pn WRONG!!! The churches ARE being stolen from "The Church" and are being converted into the ownership of an apostate organization.
The People own the church by ethics and by morality. If the Apostasy wants to take the property, this is exactly what it looks like.
If it quacks like a duck.....
NO...Believers ARE the church. What they are doing just involves land and a building. True Christ-followers are gathering elsewhere.
@@kristenspencer9751 for certain denominations, yes, for others, no.
@@kristenspencer9751 Believers are the Church. Agreed that the church is simply real estate. It is still a great injustice and a great evil that the property that this local congregation pulled out of the dirt is being taken from them.
It is also agreed that this was known from the foundation of the world to be the story of these believers.
We stand against the evil and injustice and likewise know that we do not battle against flesh and blood.
The Presbyterian Church USA denomination did this twenty years ago. In 1983 it had 3.1 million members. Today there are less than 1million. The denomination is literally dying off. They have a top heavy staff at their main office in Louisville, KY, who are holding on to get their pensions, which come from the assets and endowments they seized from local churches. Good riddance when the denomination is finally gone.
In contrast, the OPC and PCA (while smaller) are growing.
My parents left the Presbyterian Church when I was a small child ( I’m 62 now) due the denomination’s heavy leftward tilt,
Anyone may leave a church whenever they like. Just get up and walk out.. or, never return. Forget your money, your stuff, your plans. Keep your soul. Leave those people alone.
You’re doing a great job keeping us informed. This is tragic indeed.
I was raised in a UMC in Wheeling WV, In the early 60's it was standing room only every Sunday morning. We had dozens of teens in the youth group. By the mid 70's they were less than half of the pews filled and we were down to about a dozen at the Sunday night youth group. The WORD that was being preached changed almost 180 and families started to leave.
They did that to our church 25 years ago. We had already at the time lost long time members and their extended families due to the 'far left' ideology of the top brass in the UMC. Our beloved church was SOLD for development! All of my parents time and commitment, as well as consistent financial support wasted! My parents, grandparents and extended family were all Methodist Church members. The decline of this once great church, founded in AMERICA, is shocking. John Wesley must be crying in heaven.
Your parents' time, commitment, and financial support were not wasted if it helped bring people to Christ. The buildings and land are no different from treasure laid up on earth, where moth and rust attack them. The true fruits of your parents' actions will be found in heaven.
There’s no crying / tears in heaven
Caved to lGBTXYG!!
Not founded in America at all! Britain.
@@connecticutyankee9706 Good Word!
This is sad and evil. Shame on the leadership.
As pastor of two churches that disaffiliated the UMC the amount needed to leave was excessive, but I am finding that many in the pews had no idea what was happening in the denomination. They did not keep up to date nor did their pastor let them know. Sad what has happened and what continues to happen, but I am not surprised at the draconian tactics being used by UMC leaders.
Since you're a pastor, I'm wondering if you can say how it is that the UMC organization can seize a church building that is owned by the congregation?
@@Timbrock1000 in this case I don't know how they get around that except to say they knew the church could not afford to sue so they just did what they wanted which has plagued the UMC leadership for years. If the church had the deed in hand, as their pastor I would have sought it in the courts.
@robertwynn5844
Ok. I'm guessing the UMC must have become one of the deed holders when the church joined UMC, and had a clause in the contract with the (individual) church allowing them ownership and control of the property if the association was to be severed.
Yes, it shows me the UMC is more bent on power, control, and spreading their ideology than spreading the word of God. ☹️
@@Timbrock1000 Yep. One of the reasons I and my churches left the UMC
@@robertwynn5844 When all of this began, I asked if it was possible to become an Independent Methodist Church. The only way that would be allowed is to buy the property from our "district" of the UMC. It was news to me. There was to be a vote to remain a United church, or become a Global church. The members of my church did not make the decision, the executive committee did. I left that church after being a member for over fifty years.
By coincidence, a week ago, I ran into a progressive acquaintance who's part of the liberal UMC conference bureaucracy in my area. I mentioned to him that i was disappointed that so many churches chose to not disaffliate. His response shocked me: He said, no, we lost about 20%, which leaves us at just over 1800 remaining churches "which is still several hundred too high". These guys are diabolical: they just lost hundreds of churches and now want to shutter and sell off hundreds more
I have the deepest empathy for these believers who been ousted from their building. I was raised in an Assembly of God church but after marriage and moving, with only UMC and Protestant churches in my vicinity, I joined a UMC church near me and after that closed I joined the Presbyterian church that later merged and closed. After moving further away and years searching for a church home, I’ve found it. Fortunately they disaffiliated and joined the GMC and I’ll be pursuing membership to officially join the spring.
"It is impossible to introduce into society a greater evil than this: the conversion of the law into an instrument of plunder." -Frederic Bastiat, 1850
So sad. If the church is not going to uphold the Word they need to release their control. This is wickedness full blown. They are going to implode. 😢
This also happened in the Episcopal Church. Many congregations lost their buildings when they tried to leave.
It went right down the line of the major Denominational churches going woke....Pastor Jezzibel lead them to destruction
homosexual pastors, homosexual marriages, remove the Bibles......ecological, social and political issues more important, etc
Episcopal first
then Presbyterian
then Evangelical Lutheran
Now Methodist.
Some United Church of Christ
Out where I live, a Methodist church was established at a log cabin in 1850. A building for the church was built in 1869, and stands to this day. The congregation decided to jump ship, as they've refused to take a knee to the rainbow. I've never attended, but know people who do. It's quite the nightmare for them.
Same here. I attended a Methodist church for many years. We saw the writing on the wall and left for the SBC about 8 years ago. This particular church disassociated with the Methodist a couple years ago.
@SMaamri78 The SBC has the same vulnerable denominational structure. It's best to simply become an independent congregational assembly of the Lord's body and dump all theological creeds. The New Testament is a wholly sufficient creed in and of itself.
I visited a local UMC a few months ago. There were 7 people in attendance. All but one was over 70.
A year ago I visited another UMC. Of the 20 in attendance, most all were over 70.
It won’t be long before they cease to exist.
Preface the Bible and see what happens
Surf City church in Huntington Beach, California is also having this same experience. Please keep them in your prayers!
could be blessing in disguise
As an RC who served as an organist in a Methodist church for 17 years. I was always amused and surprised how with regards to property, the Methodist Church's property provisions and regulation and pastoral appointments were more Catholic than the pope, although these days for many Catholics that is no longer a joke. Here is the Catholic playbook I have seen in action as our parishes have been closed: we are constantly told "you are the church' until it conflicts with their schemes for property management and the necessity of paying off legal settlements, while ensuring the bureaucracy still maintains its lifestyle. Ideology enters in when the decision is made to close a beautiful historic church that reminds Catholics of what they once believed in favor of Bauhaus barn, multipurpose worship space that aesthetically manipulates one into the spirt of nonjudgemental modernism. Of course, no one ever asks why the churches are emptying out. The culture is always blamed. I have been though one closing and two collaborations where the Methodist adage that when you join parishes you just prolong the death of both, rang in my ears. The bureaucratic gaslighting that accompanies this is smooth and professional. I am convinced that upper-level church bureaucracies learn their techniques from the same Snake oil salesmen. So much of what you said here is so familiar to me as a Catholic. Isn't ecumenism wonderful!
Interesting that you mention a "Snake". I think we have more than the oil working here.
@@medbob1 The Devil hates us all, indiscriminately, our theological differences matter not. He sees the forest not the trees. Denominations are irrelevant in Hell.
I too grew up RC. I had to get a letter of permission to marry my Byzantine wife of now 57 years, in 1967. She had to sign a paper pledging to raise our children RC. This was in Pennsylvania.
During our marriage we endured four local parish closings, and the clergy scandles of the church.
Covid-19 closed all of the churches in PA of worship services in 2020. It also opened a window of opportunity for us. We moved to SC that year and bought a camp ground. We have not looked back.
Interesting you should share this from a Catholic perspective, as I was thinking how the UMC tactics resemble changes to Catholic churches I’ve observed in my city. Many smaller parishes have closed and been consolidated into centralized facilities. One of the new places is in within a mile of our residence and another is about five miles away. The latter caters to Asian constituents. Consolidations of this type are a very corporate move to gain economies of scale by reducing maintenance and operations costs, and scale back “human resource” requirements (e.g. priests and pastors.) All this pushes costs to the congregants as they bear the financial expense of longer transit and more travel time which often translates to less interpersonal interaction, study and prayer time, and decreased influence in local communities/neighborhoods.
@@therealstuffedzebra Corporate think is quite ecumenical. The chief Snake Oil Salesman has little imagination.
I hate having to give a thumbs up to reports like this, as what you're telling us is so distressing, but I do thank you for keeping us informed on the crimes of the leadership of the UMC.
My guess is they think by selling all these buildings they can stay afloat financially. There isn't a huge market for church buildings. Unless it is a developer looking for land. Sonner or later they are going to be out of buildings to seize. Then what, they finally close their doors. At the end of all this it is all about the money. It has become their master.
Centralized power usually corrupts. The New Testament model of autonomous local churches is right.
In our local community of just under 10,000, the largest UMC congregation saw over 1/2 of its membership leave when the UMC went woke with the homosexual issues. Two UMC churches closed very shortly there after as members left (for the same reason) and the few remaining members could not afford to keep the doors open. It is a shame...but fulfills prophecy concerning the end times.
I'm beyond saddened at what the UMC has done and are doing! Thankfully our 150 yr old church dissaffiliated. To see this horrible misuse of something John Wesley established to help save churches being twisted like this is heartbreaking 😢 💔
There have ALWAYS been warnings of false teachers in the Bible. God is allowing this to happen for a reason, and those who will side with Truth and those who will wimp out and take the easiest road with the less stress and strife...will separate each to their own camps. And those who side with Truth are beacons of light.
Thank you for these reports.
We`re going thru the same thing here. Will most likely be closing the doors by early summer, finding a place to rent for services & go forward.
As I rent the parsonage, .I`m having to leave my home also after 9 years. Am finding out just how awful rental property prices are right now. God`s gotta be so very sad right now...He can say "It`s Time" any day now as far as I`m concerned..I am sooooo ready! God bless us all
God Bless and guide you as you search for a new Church family.......Bible based non-denominational churches are STILL thriving.
I would steer clear of the MEGA-churches with showy charismatic pastors.
@@avgejoeschmoe2027 Thank you! Thankfully our small church family is staying together as a Bible Believing church along with our pastor`s other church (we`re both small) so I feel that good things are gonna happen for us as we unite as one church family. Appreciate the prayers!
It isn't just UMC churches that are being forcibly closed. The members of my church were "dischurched" and lost their building, but had the grace to set up a non-denominational church down the street. I don't understand the modern "Christian" church's obsession with closing churches.
could be blessing in disguise.
Real estate market.
It’s like eminent domain in the religious sphere… wow
I have a bible and that's all I need. They can take your building but not your faith. I don't need someone with a bunch of degrees and letters after their name that they got at seminary school telling me what the bible says and means. Remember, judgement will come for all.
Our UMC church founded in 1834 left at the cost of our hymnals and a preacher. Two of the members now preach. The First United Methodist in our town lost its financial support from the richest family and is reportedly in dire financial straits.
Your hymnals were taken. Not my idea of Christ-like
D James Kennedy faced a very similar situation with the PCUSA. His strategy was to mortgage the building to the eyeballs. They wound up owing much more than the building was worth. PCUSA was then not interested in taking the building from them and they pulled out of the PCUSA and joined the PCA.
This seemed to start ; at our Methodist church , anyway , in the mid sixties ; when I was a kid; with the I’m OK; You’re OK” movement/ philosophy . Sad , as it was a thriving place , as I remember .
This is why Baptists who left the liberalized Northern Baptist Convention (now American Baptist) about a century ago stayed independent. They joined fellowships but never a denomination.
I was a UMC Pastor for 23 years. Now retired and no longer attending a United Methodist Church. It is a total sham. The U.M.C conference has not put money into the upkeep and expenses of the local churches for years. The United Methodist Church is a funeral waiting to happen!
If the property is deeded to the congregation how can they legally take something that does not belong to them?
Happening at Surf City Church (SCC) in California too. Church is thriving. Courts keep ruling against SCC.
Probably because the California courts *want* to see the churches destroyed.
These members need to start new independent churches.
I belong to an E-Free church. Evangelical Free Church of America. We are governed and supported by our members. The congregation votes on issues. And if we decide to leave we the members own the property. We do have an association we can go to for advice, etc.
Thank you for that information I do not belong to the United Methodist Church I was born and brought up in the Assembly of God however this information is extremely important to know because it's going to be happening in multiple denominations if not already
There are so many wonderful, Bible preaching, Jesus following, non-denominational churches. These churches on fire, have wonderful kid ministries, and don’t have to follow the rules of any national organization. It’s about praising God, freely and wholeheartedly.
Please make it know what state this church is located in.I am from Irvington, Kentucky and it’s Methodist church’s doors are still open.
What you do is you refuse “tell them come and get it!” Lawyer up and sue.
Thank you for shedding light on this upsetting issue. And no, I and millions of others have never heard of you before.
My friend's husband is Methodist, and this same thing happened to the church community he was part of. I am not sure what he will do or where he will go.
This action would not happen to a Southern Baptist Church since every local Baptist church is a unit unto themselves and is totally owned by the members. If they disagree with actions taken by the Southern Baptist Convention, they just ignore the Convention and go on. They might be disaffiliated by the convention but nobody can take their property.
Greetings. I was the pastor of Irvington United Methodist Church until they were denied officially and I left, along with my wife, to pastor in the Global Methodist Church. I continued to work with their lay leader, as a friend, to look over paperwork and help them in prayer during their process. Unfortunately, the annual conference just simply did not care. They are still meeting in a different building and looking to the future in God's grace. If you'd like to talk more about it, message me and I'd be happy to give ya the story.
Seems like they need an attorney.
Same thing happened to my in-laws church. The church members had just finished a large remodel and paid for the expansion through the congregation. The Reformed Church of America said if you don’t embrace our philosophy we’re taking your building and that’s just what RCA did.
As a lot of commenters have said in different ways, losing a church building, especially one that has been a spiritual home to generations, is undoubtedly painful. It represents a tangible link to cherished memories, service, and worship over many years. However, the true essence of the church transcends physical structures. It's not a destination, but a living, breathing community of faith. It's the collective body of believers-those who love God, extend that love to their neighbors, and even offer grace to their enemies-that truly embodies the church.
AMEN!
Any church, and I mean any, should not he left or right. They are houses of God and should be neutral to earthly politics. In this they are destroying their true purpose.
True! And the unavailability from the Roman Catholic Church to understand that from the mid XIX century onward is very well said to be blamed over its all, sadly! Now it is just a question of time till both liberal and conservative Churches alike will both to be EMPTY like they should be and then, perhaps, one day anyone will restart Christianity from scratch like someone has done in the last decades with paganism!
Ideally you are correct but the left is basically very unbiblical so…
I respectfully disagree with you. The left not only backs, but celebrates everything GOD hates. Did you not hear about the murder of preborn babies outside the Democratic National Convention? They are truly the party of satan. Believe me, I’m not real happy with the Republican Party either. Many of them only seem to care about their position. I believe we still need to vote for the party that is the least evil.
Well...there's a left and right in scripture. God's right hand and His left...you don't want the Left, trust me! In the Bible, the "Left" would be the pharisees (they are false believers using "religion" for their own power, control and profit) The Bible also speaks against licentiousness...which we see a lot of in churches today. We see LGBTQ+ as 'ok'...God made them this way, they say! OR that it's OK to be one as long as you don't practice the deeds. They teach Jesus as a social justice warrior, not as a savior. They are weak on the doctrine of Hell. May even be pro-abortion. So YES, there is such a thing as left and right in the Bible.
You blame the UMC for using some "trust" clause. The real blame belongs to the whole idea of a connectional church, where individual congregations are not autonomous.
I understand that although the UMC is still a large organization, the reality is they are hemorrhaging. I wonder if it has occurred to the denomination that as a non-profit organization, when they have to dissolve because of all of the real estate liabilities and costs they are accruing, their remaining assets must be allocated to another no -profit, or donated. Point being they aren’t going to keep these properties forever. This is sad and certainly not Kingdom focused.
Those at the top who reject the truth of Scripture, suddenly care very much about rules whenever money and property are concerned.
Please pray against what is happening in South Africa and Europe. Churches who struggle financially, are bought and turned into pubs and mosques (deliberately I might add). It is such a tragedy.
This schism will leave scars for at least a century.
Can you post a list of all Churches that have been closed by the umc please?
The UMC has become an end-time Apostate Church that loves the applause of World Values, and not the embrace of God Our Father!
In the summer of 2023 the UMC had a series of sermon topics that addressed current issues such as inclusion, LGBT (the church I was attending didn't mention Q oddly enough), race, women, etc. The minister at the church where I went that summer said during one of his sermons that the church hasn't done a very good job of keeping up with the world and that needed to change going forward. I felt like running out but told myself to stay and be a witness. Then this past summer I was in a Sunday School class that was studying the history of Israel's kings. This was when I found out that the class members don't believe that the Bible is the Word of God. They said it was written by fallible men and was to be generally discounted. I asked where they got their authority on what the church is to teach and they said that if it came from Jesus Himself, you could believe that but any other statements in the Bible were just commentary and okay to disregard as far as doctrine. Their words. I left.
Did they mention the ten suggestions?😅
Contention that the "property belongs to the members" can be tested by looking at the warranty deed.
Sounds like theyvare getting out of religion and into real estate.
If the members own the property…how can UM take it back?
The Episcopal Church does the same thing
It's a shame that for ages somebody is always trying to change what the bible says. It was perfect as written. But some want it changed to conform to their new ideas of how we should live and think. Same in politics too. The USA has a constitution. It, like the bible is prefect. Now people want to come along and change it. I can't imagine being taught for Sixty years one way in church only to go next Sunday and be told "Oh by the way, now we want you to believe this other way now" !
Your video didn't say where Irvington was, I live in Indianapolis where there is a part of town called Irvington which has an Irvington UMC. I looked at the Facebook post and figured out you were referring to a church by the same name in Alabama.
Granted, this is a sad tragedy but understand too that God has His winnowing strategy. He has trimmed the tree throughout history. Israel is a good example to examine. So, when Christians won't discipline themselves to break from ungodliness, God does it for them in often unexpected ways. Take heart! It isn't over yet.
Epworth umc in sel.a v.a. no love or sympathy from the top were out of money .we ask if we could sell our 200
00 thousand dollar parsonage .to keep our church aflote..and our big brick church there taking it all .they don't care about our community this should be 9 or 10 church in our little county is this happening in other countys
We Disaffiliated with Indiana UMC in July 2023 It was a ightmare
Which Irvington Methodist is this? What state?
Could you just approach the central administration and ask them: how is it better if churches close than stay open? Is that a trick question or just the question a child could ask?
I hope you don’t expect them to tell the truth.
What are the changes of doctrine?
Embracing the perverted Rainbow Coalition's ideology.
Where is this? There are several Irvington Methodist churches listed on Google.
Alabama
Where is Jesus in all this? Do the leaders of the UMC ACTUALLY believe this is in keeping with the Gospel?
I seriously doubt they care about any of that.
The members are free to form their own independent church. Rent or buy a building, select a pastor, write a statement of faith, and start holding services.
True, I attend a non-denominational church that started by home Bible studies, then lease a small office space in a strip mall, then a stand alone building as the Lord added to the numbers as He saw fit. Amazing to focus on God and His Word and let the Holy Spirit fill and gift people for His purpose!
Where is this church located.
Irvington, Alabama
The church I attend used to be a Methodist church. I know the minister was against what all was going on. So they left and started their own church. They were able to buy back the church years later.
My neighbor attends a Methodist Church, but works at another one. She is thinking about leaving the one she attends to go to the one where she works. That one is currently trying to leave.
I don't know all the particulars of what's going on.
we've had several Methodist churches change affiliations in this area over the last decade, some of this is caused by declining interest in standard religion
I am confused about the statement of “ against their will “ ?
This is the first I've heard of this. I wonder if other denominational or even non-denominational churches are doing this as well? I'm speaking specifically of churches involved in the New Apostolic Reformation (NAR)?
The UMC stopped preaching the word of God many years ago.
Not totally a land grab, but definitely part of the motivation.
Selling a church is not all that easy.
Real Christians need more building as they are growing in numbers.
As much as I’d like to say how wrong this is I suspect the Lutheran church I belong to may have similar caveats. We have gone through similar pains as one of our fellow Synods moved left, this caused formation of a new Synod with some churches being able to affiliate with the new or one of the existing Synods
If these congregations were scripturally organized being totally autonomous this would not occur. They should dissociate from the doctrines of men and go back to the Bible.
Not a Methodist, but I have a basic question...What would happen if the local church just refused? What if they did a "sit-in" and forced the UMC to physically remove them? What a news item that would be! It might wake them up, but as long as people go quietly, the UMC will continue to do what they do. I think it would be good also for the remaining UMC members to become more aware what their leaders are doing. Maybe, just maybe, some UMC members will hear the Holy Spirit and will rebel against their own evil leadership.
Is the church the building or the people with hearts to serve Christ?
Sadly, too many people adhere to denomination over New Testament.
Hoping these shut downs cause true Bible study.
Forgive my ignorance. What I don't understand is if the land and buildings are owned by the local congregations how can the denomination make them close ? Did the churches sign over the buildings to the denomination headquarters ? Frankly, until some twit from the HQ arrives, the congragants ought to keep the church open !
Gay man here... This is unacceptable. The property should stay with the people. Although I personally believe that UMC as a denomination should fail, aka "Go woke, go broke," I realize this is probably exactly what the Left wants to happen.
Are we headed to church on line/ zoom?
Now maybe we can get past denomination and seek God for an outpouring of the Holy Ghost, just like the day of Pentecostal, and Azusa street revival.
We're hungry God, we need you, we want you!
AMEN! I believe you are right
The United Methodist Church -- where finding your identity in Christ just isn't good enough.
City & State?
While the UMC is about as apostate as they come, get out of ANY church that is part of a denomination. Go to an independent bible-teaching church. Not one that teaches about the bible, one that teaches FROM the bible.
They had the opportunity to disaffiliate, didn’t happen for reasons you don’t mention, you may have the whole story. UMC are closed for reasons of economy not their belief structure