Update: I interviewed Miyoko and got to ask her a lot of the questions that came up in this video! Check it out here: ua-cam.com/video/vvSymkvMRII/v-deo.htmlsi=IOdw8X8C2dF0gPAv
So as someone who works for a tech start-up I want to weigh in. There is a world full of sharks AKA "investors" who come in, invest money, take over the board of directors and will steal a company right out from under their founders. It almost happened to my company. These kind of people are evil. They don't know how to do anything on their own so they just throw money into others who can and then finagle their way into owning the company themselves. If they truly had good intentions, she could have remained CEO (to keep the heart of the company the same) but surround her with good advisors. She may currently own a large bit of the company (according to them) but I wouldn't be surprised if it's different in five more years. The world of business is full of sharks.
Yep. They're only goal in life is greed and they envy the creative and innovative because they can't have an original thought or odea to save their lives.
Thanks for sharing your perspective; this doesn't surprise me unfortunately. While I would hope this wasn't the intention with Miyoko's it does seem pretty textbook. Either way, I think it's good for these stories to be out there so that future founders can make the most informed choice while weighing all the possible risks.
Yes I truly believe there are, for the most part, two types: creative minds and business minds. They both need each other to a certain extent but creativity is something that can't truly be stolen or replicated, while business can be taught.
"If they truly had good intentions, she could have remained CEO (to keep the heart of the company the same) but surround her with good advisors." This is exactly what I was thinking... Those people are bloody scumbags!
Daiya gets bought out, Gardiens gets bought out, now Miyoko... nah, the Capitalists ruin everything. These were all good products until the investors, and not the customers, were the priority. I support independent kitchens... they are not getting my money. The quality sucks, and so does their business model. Hope she bounces vack...she's amazing. Love you Miyoko...this sucks.
I agree that the Capitalists ruin everything. I think supporting local is great. It just sucks that scaling in a meaningful way is almost impossible to do without getting the Capitalists involved 🤦🏻♀️
The question is . . . Can we continue trust that we can continue to consume these products without being “poisoned” by more financially expedient ingredient choices. You say that the “capitalists” ruin everything. Bill Gates and the eugenicists at the tippy tippy top have been ruining things in an even more diabolical way. That Apeel food coating is being applied to lemons! Who doesn’t use lemons? am not vegan, but I have several food sensitivities that have caused me to seek out Miyoko’s products. Thankfully I am now retired and can take the time to make yogurts, cheeses, and cultured vegan butter myself. I will buy her recipe books, and seek out specialty cultures for fermentation. Just discovered this channel. Good job!
@@TotallyForkable ...and yet almost invariably these smaller businesses opt to scale up. Why? Why not stay a small concern and serve your local community well? Miyoko seems to have a lot of integrity (although if she really did remove those products and tell retailers before the board then that is problematic) and I'm sure she just wanted to share her products far and wide rather than chasing the almighty dollar.
Same thing happens here in Australia. I was talking to a woman who owns an artisan cheese shop in Sydney. I'm from Tassie and i was talking about the brands I could get here and how the good stuff disappears or seems to be worse than in the past. She then told me that basically two large dairy producers had bought out these vegan companies. They might continue to make the products, but the love isn't there and they certainly don't declare on the packaging that the parent company is an inveterate torturer of animals on an industrial scale.
I love what Miyoko Schinner has created! As someone who has an adult-onset, severe, cow's milk allergy...her products changed my life. Vegan friends, don't judge but I didn't want to give up milk, cheese, and ice cream! But my life depended on giving those things up. She helped me transition. I wish her the best in all of her endeavors!
Thank you for sharing this; I think that’s why it’s so important to have high quality vegan alternatives to animal products. Her products are in a league of their own for sure. I’m glad they helped you!
These kinds of videos are really where you shine. They're informative, thoughtful, intelligent, and engaging. Yes, this is something that happens often and it can be extremely challenging for founders to transition away from the CEO role. However, I do think there are a few other things at play here, which have yet to fully come to light. I wish Miyoko the best and will continue to support the brand (until I learn more and as long as they don't mess with the ingredients) as well as any new ventures from Miyoko herself. I hope you are well and love the new setup!
Thank you so much for these very kind words, Lily 🥹🙏🏻 I’m so glad you enjoyed the video, and it sounds like we are on the same page in our approach to the situation. I agree there is probably a lot more we haven’t heard so it will definitely be interesting to see how everything unfolds.
I can assure you they WILL mess with the ingredients.... and not just once. They will make it a regular evolution of re-formulating/market testing to find the sweet spot of maximum profits derived from the cheapest formulation that still yields highest possible sales which equates to best profit/bottom line. AND they will likely have the FDA in their pocket to so they can be not quite so honest in their list of ingredients etc etc. Its the same story with any science based food company pretty much.
I remember all of this. I was one of her online students that asked her to just open a store where we could purchase them. She had actually started working on a blue cheese to go with the wheels. She told us she had to get a larger facility to have them in their own aging area and not affect other cheeses. This is all so sad. I have all her books. I can't wait for more Phenomenal products to come from her mind.
Wow, this is such interesting insight! I didn't know she had been teaching online classes but that totally makes sense. It seems like she had an epic grassroots marketing campaign that came out of her being a rockstar in the vegan community for so long before launching a product. I bet a Miyoko's blue cheese would be amazing; I wonder why she never launched that one. I wish whatever journey is best for her but selfishly hope we will get more products from her in the future! In the meantime I love that she is democratizing her recipes by sharing them on her channel!
@@TotallyForkable I love how she always says: "you don't have to go out and buy expensive vegan products; you can make them yourself". With so many people on social media basically using their channels as a marketing exercise it's nice to see someone who is just passionate about food and wants to spread the love.
Good, but should we question the capitalistic management of start ups? Yes! I think the group we should condemn are the investors demanding quick profits before valuing slower solid growth towards building a legacy product and lower profit at first. These investors have screwed up several great products by pushing for early profits and their returns.
I totally agree; the system is to blame. Unfortunately, it seems like it would be rare to find an investor that really sees the big picture and isn't going to get greedy. And the VC firms with the most money are often the most unethical 🤦🏻♀️
One thing that article seems to glance over is that maximizing profit doesn't necessarily mean maximizing the company. I've worked for plenty of large companies that will focus on profit at the detriment of the products and customers.
The business world is cut throat and ruthless. Corporations tries to justify the takeover of Miyoko for the best interest of the business. They attempt to justify firing Miyoko as a solution because of business differences but this was her business, her decision to move foward in the direction she wanted. If the investers didn't like the direction then, they should have sold their shares and move on. Instead they chose to takeover the business for themselves. Miyoko may not have acute knowledge of the business world but she would have made her company a complete success maybe at a slower pace but she would have succeeded. She was in the process of growing with her company like many successsful entrepreneurs and making mistakes along the way is part of the game. To takeover a company from the creator is unethical. This is what corporations do with inexperienced business owners. They chew and spit them out and people like you support their company. Personally, I wouldn't support or purchase any product from Miyoko's for ethical reasons.
My dad had a small company - he was sued once from a company he sell his products to, with absurd claims. The reason? They wanted the prototyes of my dad's products because they wanted to use a much cheaper company to produce my dad's products, but they did not have the design/protoypes. The legal fees and the unpaid bills were blackmail tools to force my dad to give them the prototypes. I would nto be surprised if there was something similar happening here.
It's just kind of sad to me that everything has to always increase and grow and make more money and more more more! Especially as a vegan cook and hopefully a future entrepreneur myself, it's such a stressful way of seeing the world honestly.
Yes I totally agree. You would think being profitable and having a happy customer base would be the most important things, but nothing less than maximum profit is good enough in the world of VC. I have heard that as much as it can feel like a dream come true for a founder to get VC investment, it's often a kiss of death for their company or them as CEO (or both) because it sets up a cycle of impossible demands to fulfill.
I was so disappointed when Miyoko’s block farmhouse cheddar was no longer available. Now I understand a bit about what happened. I don’t use the other vegan cheeses and the butter more than a couple times a year. I have her cheese and pantry cookbooks. I will make my own and perhaps purchase a Miyoko product for special occasions. I appreciate what she has brought to the vegan food options and hope she will find joy and satisfaction in her new journey.
A lot of people were disappointed to lose that product; the pepper jack too! I hope she will work on bringing new products at some point because she truly has a unique talent there and there's certainly a demand for it!
the popularity of those products was most likely because people were trusting the name. But, as you noted, they weren't so good. Therefore, they would've failed and tarnished their name, jeapordizing the sale of their other products.
I’m happy to be back with you guys! I apologize for the delay on this video-the scripting/filming/editing process stretched out longer than I would have liked. I have had some really difficult stuff going on in my personal life the last few weeks. I hope you enjoy this video and also my new setup 🌿
The business world is cut throat and ruthless. Corporations tries to justify the takeover of Miyoko for the best interest of the business. They attempt to justify firing Miyoko as a solution because of business differences but this was her business, her decision to move foward in the direction she wanted. If the investers didn't like the direction then, they should have sold their shares and move on. Instead they chose to takeover the business for themselves. Miyoko may not have acute knowledge of the business world but she would have made her company a complete success maybe at a slower pace but she would have succeeded. She was in the process of growing with her company like many successsful entrepreneurs and making mistakes along the way is part of the game. To takeover a company from the creator is unethical. This is what corporations do with inexperienced business owners. They chew and spit them out and people like you support their company. Personally, I wouldn't support or purchase any product from Miyoko's for ethical reasons.
@@nmf6620 I agree that the business world is cutthroat but Miyoko also made decisions along the way that ultimately led to this. To say "they chewed her up and spit her out" takes away her agency. I'm sure it's exciting getting offers from some of the biggest VC firms but there's also a blueprint of what these investors tend to do (as detailed in the "Founder's Dilemma" section of my video). Also, as I mentioned in the video, as far as we know Miyoko is still a huge beneficiary of the company, so while it may not have ended up the way she wanted, she still benefits when people buy her products. I think her culinary skills are amazing and I hope she will launch another product that we can all support!
@@TotallyForkable The founder's dilema is nothing but a course of action they intended to do despite she agreed to their terms. They wanted full control of her company and they succeeded. It doesn't matter if she made decisions that was not in agreement to theirs. This is her creation and birthright to make the best decision for her company. To takeover a company from the founder is like killing a baby and being compensated with money. The day this happens to you, you will think differently.
I feel like there’s a million more things I could have said on this topic; a 28 minute video doesn’t really do the nuance of this topic justice. Very much looking forward to hearing all of your thoughts!
As an owner of a family business with 20 employees, I am appalled by the whole story. Our business could have had investors and pushed extreme growth, but we’re just now willing to give up on our values just to have outsiders come i. Who are just interested in $$$ and ROI
Yes there is 100% a tradeoff. I understand how she could have felt like she was between a rock and a hard place (wanting to meet consumer demand but also not wanting to give up control) and I'm sure she did what she felt was best. I'm glad you are doing what feels best for your business!
@@TotallyForkable it’s probably also an issue if your company has enough money, high profit and zero debt like we do. That gives us the comfort of making our own decisions without having to go the investor way.
👏🏻 Very interesting and very informative! I know it takes a lot of work to research and carefully articulate nuanced topics, and I appreciate it more than you know. Your videos like this make me wish you could have the resources to cover more topics. If you ever start a Patreon I will be happy to contribute. Regarding Miyoko, I agree with you about understanding both sides. I hope her story will encourage upcoming zero-to-one innovators to be persistent, and not make them worry about overcoming the founder’s dilemma. Marielle, thank you for another high quality video and I hope the things you are dealing with get better soon.
Thank you from the bottom of my heart for this absolutely lovely comment, Eva! These videos are a lot of work and I'm so happy you appreciate them! I agree that I hope Miyoko's legacy will be more of an inspiration than a cautionary tale. I miss our chats on IG and I hope you are doing well! 💖
So glad I came across your channel while watching Miyoko's one. Had just listened to The Korean Vegan podacast: Are you Ready? with Miyoko. I'm subscribed to your channel and getting notifications now. How were you off my radar? Vegan for 8 years with 2 (failed ) restaurants on my portfolio. I look up to Myioko, Korean Vegan, Wicked Kitchen, Sarah's Vegan Kitchen. Good Eatings, you name it. I got 2 hours of UA-cam to get through a day... but I'll take you on for an informed oppinion
Great video. As I watched a couple of things occurred to me. Miyoko seems to be driven more by her passion for the vegan lifestyle and how that impacts the way we treat animals than by a desire to be filthy rich. The large investors are predictably, primarily motivated by dominating the market to make large profits. For example, the use of potato starch in a cheese substitute seems to serve the goal of making money and not the goal of providing a good, vegan alternative. Cheese is mainly fat with some protein. Potato is a filler. A cheap filler. It does not and will not ever taste like cheese or make the same nutritional contribution to your diet. The Harvard article never seemed to consider that a founder might have a different definition of success than the tried and true but tired and formulaic one of venture capitalists. Venture capitalism is unconcerned with social change or environmental sustainability (or even the long term sustainability of a civilization. only quarterly returns matter within the scope of one man's lifetime). True, I'm no expert on the subject but the race to turn any new, successful small business into giant piles of money seems feverish and off course in a case like Miyoko's. Yes available funds and the ability to scale are important to Miyokos original mission but those resources should serve that mission, not replace it.
These are great points. I think you’re spot on about what Miyoko was driven by. Also, I think she is a “foodie” in the true sense of the word. She spent much of her life seeking out unique culinary experiences and flavors (especially cheeses), and then was able to essentially “bottle” that up and sell it. I think she was probably okay with her company being more of a slow burn in order to keep the “artisanal” experience, but obviously the investors had other plans. I agree about the Harvard article missing out on the “core values” version of success, although it touched on it in saying founders often have motivating factors that conflict with the desire for money. It really seems like Miyoko and her investors were a terrible fit. Sadly they probably assured her in the beginning that her mission was important to them and that they wanted her to always be at the helm. And then of course flipped the script (just speculation of course).
honestly i don't think it's a good thing for the company that still needs artistic talent when it comes to creating new and better quality cheeses to turn and focus on profit to satisfy investors. i've seen this time and time again and they just start cutting all possible corners and make worst and worst products to make better margins with cheaper ingredients. if this is the road they are going towards. i don't think people will like them very long if they start puppeteering an old image that people have of the company back when Miyoko was the artisan behind all decisions to sell poorly made industrial products.
This a very bleak, and likely true, outlook. Creativity gets undervalued time and time again the business world, and the "money people" never seem to learn their lesson. Hopefully they won't lose too many of their talented team of R&D, taste testers etc. during this transition. But yes you're right, if they decide to cut corners to maximize profit, they will destroy, or at least tarnish, what Miyoko built very quickly.
Amazing video as always, Marielle. I always find myself agreeing with your views which are always nuanced and thought through. I hope you're doing well despite whatever you have going on 💙
I’ve been away for a while. So you know, I think about you, and send you positive thoughts regularly. I am one of the undecided ones. Looking forward to watching your video right now. I hope everything is going well with you!
Like many, I was clueless as to what was happening. Thank you for such an indepth explanation of Miyoko Schinner's parting ways with the company she founded. Like you, I will continue to support Miyoko and her future ventures. I will also continue to buy that delicious European style butter she created while part of Miyoko's Creamery
Well researched and presented - thank you. Your explanation did help me as I had been struggling with - to support or not to support Miyoko’s. I will continue to support the company and follow Miyoko’s efforts in future and donate to her sanctuary.
My first time hearing. I thought I would find a snippet of her first lecture at UC Berkeley after seeing her post on Instagram about it. I love the mozzarella wheel and was disappointed to see other flavors not being sold at Whole Foods. I wish Miyoko good luck and success in her future endeavors and Miyokos creamery the same. Thanks for making this video. I learned a lot!👍🏻😁✌🏻👋🌱
We’ll, as a lactose intolerant individual I followed Miyoko when she taught us how to make our own cheese and travel all over the country. As for the creamery who still uses her name illegally and her likeness to make money without her permission and involvement, I decided to make my own following her recipes and experimenting in my kitchen. So, I for one will boycott them and follow her only.
I think that's great; I need to get back to her cheese cookbook and experiment some more! Do we know for sure that she's not involved with the company anymore? The only info I could find publicly is their amicable mutual statements and the quote from James Joaquin that "she's still a large owner and on the board."
Great presentation but I think from 2020 they faced the backlash from lockdowns too, which did slow down all businesses. They do not share any internal and production challenges about that time so they are scapegoating Miyiko for pulling the products? Does not feel like a complete picture. Thoughts?
I am really worried that as the board decides to grow the company they will compromise the products Miyoko has developed. Greed often translates into watering down the product, using inferior ingredients etc. At least we have many of her homemade recipes which are delicious.
Absolutely. Someone already commented that they are starting to add suspicious ingredients, although I can't say I've seen that yet. Part of me thinks if they are able to lower the price of the products it could be a good thing overall. Meanwhile hopefully Miyoko will go on to launch another amazing product! She posted on IG a few days ago that she is working on new cheeses (for a new cookbook, but still, maybe a new product too? 👀)
Oh wow I had no idea about all that, thanks for the well researched info and like you I'd definitely still will support Miyoko's bc it's nostalgic and it's still her idea no matter what the money vultures ,I mean people, try to take from it...
You're absolutely right; no amount of money can buy innovation and Miyoko will always have that magic with her no matter what! In the meantime, hopefully she continues to get rich from the legacy she built.
I can't find any info on her board or ownership status. As far as I know the only public updates have been her and Miyoko's both issuing statements on their socials stating they have resolved their dispute and mutually praising each other. I'm guessing this course of action was agreed upon in some sort of settlement they reached, but the details of that settlement I'm sure are shrouded in NDAs. When I last checked Miyoko was replying to comments with "no comment!" so I'm not sure if there's any way of knowing if she is a) still on the board and b) still a large owner of the company. Obviously it would be nice to know this information to determine whether or not to still support the company, but I haven't seen that info anywhere. My guess would be that they reached an enormous settlement for Miyoko with the stipulation that she go away quietly.
Thanks for your informative video. I have also seen quite a few companies fire the founder and basically take over. I really appreciated the points made from Harvard Business about why founders usually are bought out and/or fired. I will still continue to buy Miyoko’s Creamery products because I think it’s the best vegan butter on the market. I also have all her cookbooks which I use quite often. Thanks again!
I'm so glad you enjoyed it! And yes, it seems to be a tried and true blueprint for scaling a business. I keep wanting to make something else from her cheese cookbook--one of these days I will do it!
I want to say thank you for this video. I just found out about this yesterday and was so disappointed by it. As a vegan and artist, I cannot with a clear conscience support this company. When I saw what happened, my first thought was, "They cannibalized her." My second thought was, "They took her through the same process and they do in the dairy industry. They milk the mama--take her baby, she cries. The rack. When they drain her, they put her out to slaughter." The same process was also done in trans-atlantic slavery. Then, it also made me think of fair trade. The very same reasons we look to fair trade--the ethically sourced items free of slavery and oppression, is precisely what they've done to Schinner. The greedy always want to scale up something that is art. They have no creativity and always work to enslave those who do. For several years I've been seeing that there is no room for artists, creatives, or true innovators in America. The greedy just come steal everything. I know what it's like to have that happen. Some of the biggest businesses with poor quality in America are rip-off, theft, and betrayal companies. With the betrayal and the way she's been cannibalized to feed yet another part of corporate greed, I cannot support that company. I felt something so off when I would buy the cheese. It felt wrong, but I did not know why. Now I know. I can support Miyoko Schinner. I am soooo looking forward to getting those books and re-watching Vegan Mashup :D But, I cannot support corporate predators, rapine actions, and oppression. I'm not led by my belly. I can do without it.
Thanks for sharing your thoughts! I especially agree with the third paragraph; I have sadly seen this far too often. It's this strange relationship where innovators and investors need each other--the investors need the innovators' creativity; the innovators need the investors' capital. Unfortunately it's _way_ easier for the investors to take advantage of the innovators--and get away with it 🤦🏻♀️ I've been thinking of doing a one year later follow-up to this video and you've given me a lot to think about!
Yes; learning about the book really put things into perspective for me! I wonder if Miyoko herself had been familiar with it; it doesn't seem like it. It seems like the book had a pretty big impact on the business/startup world. And I agree; Miyoko is a true pioneer who has brought the vegan community so much over the years!
@@TotallyForkableOne of my first thoughts when I first heard about this story was that maybe they didn't like Miyoko's activism. My cynical side can almost imagine them removing the "phenomenally vegan" on their labels and changing it to "plant-based" or something. But you bring up a good point that it is common for companies to fire the founders. Anyway, hope she does well getting through all this.
Thank you. Excellent video. Actually the best information I've seen on what happened with Miyoko. And I do follow her on all social media. She has new UA-cam videos and they are phenomenal. Even I, (who does not cook. Unless I am under great duress and have no other choice), have subscribed to her channel and have made one of the items. O.k just one, but for me it is a 100% increase.
This is a really excellent question and it's pretty baffling. My guess is that, at some point along the way, she signed away rights to her recipes as part of a deal. She probably never imagined it being an issue. This is all just speculation of course.
SO appreciated this video - I literally just found out about this and your video really told the whole story. Would love it you could do a video on the ousting of Captain Paul Watson of Sea Shepherd too - very similar situation but as a nonprofit, so curious how you might view that!
I'm so glad you found the video informative! And thank you for the suggestion about Sea Shepherd; I had heard mention of that but didn't realize it was such a similar situation. I'll look into it!
Ty! So confusing. Ran into Miyoko at the CVS in Petaluma. I told her she was one of my Idols. Bless her and her vision. Interested in any updates? Lmk! Thx, Phoebe
Hi! I actually interviewed her earlier this year where she was pretty forthcoming; not sure if you've seen it but here it is: ua-cam.com/video/vvSymkvMRII/v-deo.htmlsi=FzluN2RN9Gc0Ul7r
Thank you for this well researched video Marielle. You did an awesome job! As humans we tend to quickly jump to negative conclusion so I’ve compiled a quick list of why this could be a good think: - maybe she has more time now to share her recipes on YT so people who can’t buy the products can make their own - maybe she wasn’t entirely happy being a CEO and prefers to be a chef and has more impact that way - maybe the company grows much quicker because of the investors pushing for growth and that means more people get to bye the products which maybe saves a lot of cows than if she had stayed - maybe the money the investors make from this goes to fund other vegan businesses that save even more animals Point is: We just don’t know… 😃
Adulting is difficult. Boycotting sends an important message when it needs to be sent, and it can be VERY effective. I doubt if anyone has ever been harmed being on the Boycotting side of a Boycott. (except in the selfish & self-interest senses) If so, you probably need to take a step back and take a look at your life and life choices and probably reset or re-align.
I think boycotting can be effective when there's a specific goal/outcome in mind. I.e., in the case of Amy's Kitchen, boycotting until the workplace hazards and union-busting have been resolved. In the case of Miyoko's, I'm not sure what the goal of a boycott would be. Get the company to go out of business? At this rate it doesn't seem like Miyoko would ever resume her CEO post even if it were offered to her, and as far as we know she is still financially benefiting from the sales.
This was extremely helpful....thank you for all your research and work putting this together! I initially was going to boycot BUT I also love her products and so agree with "hard to be vegsn" in today's world..(vegan since 1994)...anyway...GREAT job...and I am not boycotting her products!!
I'm so glad you found this helpful!! If you haven't seen it, I interviewed Miyoko last week and got to ask her a lot of the lingering questions from this video; you can watch it here: ua-cam.com/video/vvSymkvMRII/v-deo.html
I have to say...I haven't purchased Miyokos products since she removed the slices from production. Even if they weren't the best-tasting, they had healthier ingredients than other vegan cheese slices, and for those of us that made them popular, that was probably more important than taste comparison. I drink water, but I prefer the taste of Diet Coke. It was a stupid decision.
I completely agree. Those products filled a niche and their removal led to a ton of head-scratching and frustration in the vegan community. Like I said the line must have been making money and that's why the investors were so frustrated. I still miss the pepper jack (and the garlic butter! 😣).
I don't have time to watch this, but recently, I was at a vegan event and they were serving Miyoko Cheese. it didn't taste the same. I didn't know they fired her, but it makes sense because the cheese does not taste as good as it used to when she was making it.
Ugh, I hate to hear that. This is what many people were afraid of when they kicked her out, that they would start changing recipes to maximize profit. I haven’t had their cheese in a while so I haven’t experienced it yet.
@@TotallyForkable there was a variety of Miyoko cheeses there at this show just two weeks ago: pesto, gouda, cheddar, smoked cheddar, and many others I can't remember. None of them tasted like I remember. I started to really question if my tastebuds were damaged. But clearly no, the cheese is missing something now. Maybe they don't age it long enough. I was at a trade show a few years ago and the Miyoko booth had experimental hard cheeses there that I thought were going to hit the shelves soon. Those cheeses were AMAZING!!!! I am so glad I got to try them. It shows how gourmet and nuanced they can be.
I love Miyoko Schinner and support her but, at the same time, I think we should support any vegan venture, including Miyoko's Creamery. The more vegan products producers the better for our movement.
I agree, especially when looking through the lens of the goal of the movement at large (ending animal suffering). A company wanting to scale may be bad for some (in this case, unfortunately, Miyoko who was not on board with that plan), but her products becoming more available to the masses is ultimately going to be very good for the animals.
Great video, very informative and well made! You are very pretty, your look and voice kinda remind me of Vegan Bodegacat :D I can't finish the whole video rn but I will circle back to it soon
Thank you for the video. I must say, the microphone feedback "buzzing" in the video during your on camera talking sections, made it very difficult to watch. Please troubleshoot what could be the cause of the buzzing feedback noise for the sake of your future videos and those who watch them.
What you are saying at the end about '' hard to be vegan '', I totally relate and agree with you. I've lived all my life in a literal food desert in a family without much money, we had to make a 3 hours drive to the nearest supermarket and the vegan products there costed an arm and a leg. It was the only supermarket in the region before it closed down. It was not possible to order online, and vegan at the time I was having the discussion online didn't even know what I was talking about because they had access to many vegan stores and items, they were non-disabled, they lived in big cities that had lots of vegan restaurants, meanwhile I never ever saw a restaurant with a single Vegan options in my life other than Burger king. I think Vegans often forget now everything is black or white, life is a spectrum and because they often have narrow views because of the emotional side of Veganism ( totally understandable ) it's important to remember the human !
This is such a thoughtful and insightful comment and I thank you for sharing this. I agree there is a big disconnect between the ideals of Veganism and the reality for so many people. There are so many hurdles to overcome for many before even getting to the privileged place of being able to "choose" to go vegan.
Felt this in my soul. Vegan for almost 30 years now and grew up in a ghetto. But it made me innovative. Vegans these days, especially wealthy vegans, don't realize how easy they have it.
So true , it's sad to me that often the most aggresives Vegans are the one who are wealthy and have no ideas about other people life. It makes me so angry and sad@@rebeccaspratling2865
@@rebeccaspratling2865 I definitely recognize my privilege in being a vegan that, for the most part, can afford to buy the foods I want, live in an area where I have access to vegan items, etc. My point in saying "it's hard" is to acknowledge that as hard it is for me, with my level of privilege, I can only imagine how much harder it is for others. This is why I don't think it's helpful/productive to criticize people for the vegan products they buy. As it relates to Miyoko's, I won't criticize someone for supporting them because maybe Miyoko's is the only vegan cheese/butter they can find at their local store or the only one they like.
ive not been able to get into vegan cheese until miyoko this year! ive been really eager to learn more about her and noticed she posted her recipe online! i thank you for telling us all about her!
They started putting more chemicals into her pretty pure products. I knew she must have been taken over. I will NOT eat any of the newer products because of all of the junk ingredients in them. Her recipes were pure and it is moving towards a precipice of junk.
This is very sad to hear. As you can see from the comments here, that's what most people were afraid of. What have they added? And has the price changed at all?
The first vegan cultured butter is the same, and so is the original cream cheese. It's on the newer products that have all the processed 'food chemicals' like the made for baking vegan oat butter, and newer cheeses. The other products in the market like Daiya or Violife have them too - but I'm allergic to them all so I am very cognizant because I read all labels! I don't have the list off the top of my head because I won't buy them, but if you compare the original vegan cultured butter to the newer one you will see, clearly! I didn't know the story you shared here - so that was informative (thank you) but I figured she must have gotten a larger company to invest or buy her out.... because that has happened in the past with other purer recipes too leading to products by other brands I no longer can use... @@TotallyForkable
Thanks for sharing. It's really such a shame because, like you said, the unique selling point of Miyoko's products is that they were different from the other vegan dairy products. I know it was important to Miyoko to maintain that integrity but obviously the board didn't agree. Miyoko, please come back with a new product soon!!
Ok i had to pause to figure out what 0 to 1 meant and that was very frustrating. It means going from unproductive to being productive. 1 to 100 in the unhighlighted part just sounds like they want exponential growth which is unsustainable. I can't even find my vegan cheese anymore. I can't eat miyoko's cheese I have to eat chao or daiya. I can find the butter and that's it. So I guess this company tanked. I'm here because I started watching her channel and she's going to put out a vegan cheese cook book next year in the hopes that making vegan cheese can be more open source and I think that's beautiful. As for feedback for this video I needed to know what 1 to 0 meant faster because I had to go try and find this on google because I had no idea if you were going to explain it or not. Thanks for the info though.
I don't think that the number of products are directly relevant to company growth. Ability to bring existing products to new places is also important, and there's still a lot of room for that with Miyoko's Creamery. I live near DC, there are multiple grocery stores in my town, and, as far as I can tell, there's nowhere within a 15-minute drive that sells the pizza mozarella, and I've been wanting to try it. I've only ever seen their kids' cheddar cheese sticks in a local store. There are an above-average number of vegans here, so I think they could still expand where they're sold. I also don't think it's wrong to pull products that don't meet a certain quality standard. Miyoko's is seen as the high-end stuff, and I think there's good reason for that. All the reviews I've seen suggest that they're substantially closer to the flavor and texture of dairy than most of their competitors. If they rush to release a ton of new products, they'll lose that reputation, they may need to drop their prices to better compete, and their lack of market penetration compared to Daiya, Follow Your Heart, Chao, and others will put them at a disadvantage. A lot of venture capital firms are looking for short-term profit, not long-term sustainability. Given the general lack of options for vegan cheese, I think most of us would rather see them in it for the long haul, but their investors would probably be happy to pump the valuation, plunder it, and dump it. I've worked at a place that was bought by a venture capital firm and I saw just that happening in slow motion. I also fully believe her when she says there was systemic misogyny, because that is often how things are in corporate america, even to this day. Particularly the ability for men to make mistake and bad decision after mistake and bad decision and always come out of it ok, but when a woman does the same, she doesn't get the same benefit of the doubt. I suspect the quality of the products and the working conditions at the company will decline in the coming years, and now I'm not sure if I'm even interested in hunting down their products.
I definitely agree about VC looking for short-term gain and systemic misogyny at play. I'm surprised that the products didn't reach the DC suburbs! CT is essentially one giant suburb, and a not particularly vegan friendly one at that, and most grocery stores started carrying her products early on. I think my point about the timeline is it seemed a bit inconsistent; times of huge growth followed by a long time with no new products. And yes I agree on pulling products for quality reasons; perhaps what they should have done in the case of the cheddar/pepperjack was just pick one iteration to market test before they came out with like 7 products based around them. It seems like they potentially sunk a lot of capital into those products with the hope/expectation they would be a hit. But of course I understand Miyoko's standards as I stated in the vid! Thanks for sharing your thoughts!
If she said she was fired, how is she still working there, according to the company? And how is buying the products still generating an income for her?
I don't believe they said she's still working there; one of the investors said she was still a "large owner." However, I'm not sure how it all shook out after their settlement. Keep an eye on my channel this week; I'm posting an interview that may clear a lot of things up 👀
Sigh. Fortunately, there are other companies out there that make good vegan cheese and there's also Miyoko's book, because I'm out when it comes to buying from Miyoko's former company. This company and No Evil (which was really evil to its employees during the early days of the pandemic) have proven that profits are more important to them than ethics. Humans, also animals, deserve to be treated decently as well. Honestly, once Miyoko's creamery decided to drop the Monterey Jack slices, they became less essential to me anyway.
As a vegan, I am finding myself unable to buy vegan products which come in unethical packaging, continuing to support products in plastic which is mostly not being recycled and is destroying our planet goes against my ethics. I wish more vegans would talk about this issue. Plastic is destroying our planet and we most hold these large corporations accountable.
I agree it's a big issue but I don't think it's as simple as we think. Things like regulations, ability to mass produce and keep products fresh likely present all kinds of obstacles.
I revisited this video because I recently bought some Miyoko's butter, both the salted and unsalted, for the first time since they changed the packaging. It totally tastes different to me. Am I crazy? Did I simply get two bad batches? Has anyone else noticed a difference? I am so bummed. I loved it even more than I used to love real butter back when I consumed animal products. 😭
That's awful! I'm sorry to hear that. Was it the oat butter or cashew? We have continued to buy the cashew and can't say I've noticed a huge taste difference. PS if you haven't seen it, I just posted an interview with Miyoko! ua-cam.com/video/vvSymkvMRII/v-deo.html&lc=UgwLzBYKfjblmVFMd6F4AaABAg&ab_channel=TotallyForkable
It was the cashew kind. I haven't tried the oat version yet. And I immediately watched that beautiful interview you did with Miyoko.❤Great job! @@TotallyForkable
Ty, this cleared up things remarkably. I've only read some very dramatic personal comments ab this on social media and really didn't know what to think lol. I agree, we should support both sides in this. We should't boycott vegan business'. Although i get it when there are some shady ceo's we want to step back, but they'll be always there when ever business' grow bigger. EDIT: oh this was made 2 mths ago? I wonder is there any new developments in the law case?
I'm soglad you found this informative! The most recent update I have seen was both Miyoko and Miyoko's posting statements saying their issues have been resolved, they mutually appreciate and wish each other the best, etc. Extremely vague. It would be nice to know if she's still on the board/still a large owner but I'm guessing whatever agreement they worked out came with a strict NDA.
Lol. It's so funny to hear people say oh it's so hard being a vegan these days. Yes it's slightly inconvenient but yall don't know how big of a win it was for walmart to start carrying soy milk and gluten free foods. Back in the 80s you had to go to a mom and pop health food store to get anything that was vegan. Regular grocery stores didn't have anything for us. I don't even remember vegan cheese being around back then. The whole vegan space has been so elevated through vegan cook books, restaurants and UA-cam cooks it looks completely different from back then. Tofutii was one of the first in this space that i can remember and i really wish they were more prominent today than they are. They still have the best cream cheese. Ps. I bought 3 of miyoko cream cheese a few years ago from different stores still in date and all of them had mild growing on them. I'm wondering if quantity control was an issue in 2021ish time frame.
I have serious respect for anyone who was vegan before, say, 2010! Personally I feel there are still plenty of hurdles in 2023 so I can only imagine what it was like in the '80s 😳 In my 2020 Miyoko's taste test vid I had ordered a pre-release bundle from the company and there was mold on one of the butters. I think because the products are cultured it can create a more prime environment for mold growth. This was the only time it happened to me; it's pretty bad that you had this experience 3 times though!
That's so interesting! The cheese was definitely her first product to market and what I'd say she's known for. The butter is amazing though so I understand!
I've been very impressed with their products I've tried! Still not widely available though and quite a bit more expensive than the Miyoko's cheeses, which are expensive to begin with.
Ahh yes; I forget that while her brand/product is huge in the US, it really doesn't exist in other countries. However! I do remember seeing an article that they had expanded to Australia; maybe it was short-lived? vegnews.com/2019/10/miyokos-vegan-cheese-and-butter-expand-to-australia
To be fair, they never went public. She _did_ take on outside investment which seemed to hurt her in the end. Many founders are faced with an impossible choice when the only way to grow their company is to take on investment. From what I've learned over the years, founders almost always get f***ed in the end. It's truly a broken system.
Sounds to me like Miyoko was putting quality over profits and this irritated investors so they tried to relegate her to an irrelevant role in the company which she refused so they fired her and the company has not done anything remarkable or new since.
I think that's pretty spot-on! If you haven't seen it, I interviewed her recently and she shared some more insights as to what happened: ua-cam.com/video/vvSymkvMRII/v-deo.html
@@TotallyForkable I did watch that one, thank you for interviewing her, we like her products and her cooking videos and we're both relieved to know the drama surrounding her and her company are pretty clearly the fault of investors and not herself. Its a bummer, I actually kinda liked the pepperjack cheese and was looking forward to an improved version that will we will likely never see now, thanks to corporatism.
Not sure if anyone else asked this yet, but what if the point or goal for a business like this is not wealth-maximization, but wealth stability? Is it possible to successfully do that with a vegan business or any business model or is that ridiculous in the land of capitalism? Like, I know you mentioned no ethical consuming companies under capitalism, but is this possible with the right investors and board? I know NOTHING about business, lol. ❤
Really good question, and I think "stability" would be a great thing to aim for and many more businesses would survive (and even thrive!) under this mentality. Unfortunately the way of capitalism does seem to be pushing for constant growth. I'm not sure if you watched my interview with Miyoko from a few months ago, but she really emphasized this.
Miyoko has her own UA-cam channel youtube.com/@thevegangoodlifewithmiyoko?si=y-HZQUoV_oaZeNLU with some say her recipes are better then the Miyoko's Creamery. Funny 🤣😂🤣🤣🤣🤣
There’s nothing like her products! I recently tried to use violife butter in rice krispy treats and ended up with plastic. I never got to add the cereal! Nothing tastes like miyokos
See I don’t think one has to accept what happens in business. As a vegan you don’t accept what people say about eating meat for good nutrition. Change doesn’t occur by just accepting what happens. The company would not be there if someone like Myoko didn't venture into the unknown. Really take a chance, boycott. This should not have happened. I will not be supporting the company.
Call me stupid but how do you get fired from the company you literally created from scratch? I get that growth and hiring staff, experienced professionals and securing funding has to come from elsewhere, but WTF? Kind of the equivalent of having your child stolen away by richer, better educated people who appoint themselves as the new parents!
I think oftentimes people who have a creative, compassionate mind don't also have a cutthroat business mind, so it must be very difficult to wear both hats/navigate both of those worlds at the same time. You are relying on people more experienced to help guide you through and I think founders tend to have the optimism that people will help them keep their "baby" intact/in their control. Unfortunately it seems there are people who take advantage of this naivete.
Civics101: Reminder that *election winners* make the laws, determine the punishments, set the tax brackets, create the budgets, and shape the judiciary. So please go to your local county Democratic Party headquarters and offer your support, time, energy, enthusiasm, friendship, skills, talents, and encouragement to help the BLUE party win elections. Offer to organize your local Democratic precinct to help get out the vote for Dems. Meet your neighbors. Support Dems. Politics is Power. The Power to pass good laws that help people, protect the planet, and support animal habitats. Politics is partisan. Individual candidates don't pass laws. Parties pass laws. See the Blue voter guide. 🗽🌊⚖️🇺🇲🥰
This is suuuch horses**t lol. So greed! Daiya and Chao already have great distribution of their products among other brands. There are multiple vegan cheese alternatives available to choose from nowadays. So this pretend altruism business about "getting more products to the people" is silly. We need QUALITY vegan alternatives in the market today, and with what Miyoko has done in her other recipes, I trust her judgement on what products are good enough to stay. "Founders' attachment, overconfidence and naivete.." hmmm. I doubt any of the business bone heads there have any idea what a good vegan cheese should taste like. Of course this situation is not unique to Miyoko which is why capitalism is a very flawed system. The rich bone heads without a creative and often without an empathetic bone in their body, invest large amounts into the company and the founder signs their rights away on a piece of paper. Yes, this is what happens but it's our system of doing things that is an issue(more money more authority). Some of the responsibility does land on Miyoko however, as it is important to only accept these kinds of deals with people you fully trust to have your vision and best interests at heart. Maybe she did trust them, but in the end it's about whether our trust was well placed. It's the same as with the music industry. Bland products are rushed out without the artist's consent to most of the choices.. and the audience eats it up because of how it is marketed and because it is played in so many forms of media that they can't NOT hear it anywhere(the "if you cant beat them, join them!" effect that many less free thinking people are swept away by), thus it make lots of money because it is connected to a celebrity they idolize and it is simple and widespread enough that everyone knows it. I would rather have Miyoko's most authentic work than pay for what others "decide" is good.
"Mansplaining", is not a serious allegation. It's women basically not accepting men for who and what they are: basically, not women. Once a woman starts to make that kind of accusation, I pretty much know they have no argument to fall back on. Undoubtedly, this case is a dumpster fire. And I'm outie.
While the differences in the companies are there, By Chloe sucked when she was the founder, so I only went once, and I'm sure it still does. Miyoko's products are solid; she is old school, so I care much more about her than Chloe.
I LOVED By Chloe back in the day! When I lived in LA they opened their second ever location down the street from me so I went for the opening. Chloe was there and seemed super hands-on; I went/ordered from them all the time. HOWEVER, I did start noticing a drop in quality at some point and then when all the news came out, it turned out that drop was around the time all the legal drama started. I didn't support them after that.
Update: I interviewed Miyoko and got to ask her a lot of the questions that came up in this video! Check it out here: ua-cam.com/video/vvSymkvMRII/v-deo.htmlsi=IOdw8X8C2dF0gPAv
So as someone who works for a tech start-up I want to weigh in.
There is a world full of sharks AKA "investors" who come in, invest money, take over the board of directors and will steal a company right out from under their founders. It almost happened to my company. These kind of people are evil. They don't know how to do anything on their own so they just throw money into others who can and then finagle their way into owning the company themselves. If they truly had good intentions, she could have remained CEO (to keep the heart of the company the same) but surround her with good advisors. She may currently own a large bit of the company (according to them) but I wouldn't be surprised if it's different in five more years. The world of business is full of sharks.
Yep. They're only goal in life is greed and they envy the creative and innovative because they can't have an original thought or odea to save their lives.
Thanks for sharing your perspective; this doesn't surprise me unfortunately. While I would hope this wasn't the intention with Miyoko's it does seem pretty textbook. Either way, I think it's good for these stories to be out there so that future founders can make the most informed choice while weighing all the possible risks.
Yes I truly believe there are, for the most part, two types: creative minds and business minds. They both need each other to a certain extent but creativity is something that can't truly be stolen or replicated, while business can be taught.
"If they truly had good intentions, she could have remained CEO (to keep the heart of the company the same) but surround her with good advisors." This is exactly what I was thinking... Those people are bloody scumbags!
@@TotallyForkable right, creative minds (right brained inspired to serve,) business minds (ego and greed, counterincentive, materialism serving SELF )
Daiya gets bought out, Gardiens gets bought out, now Miyoko... nah, the Capitalists ruin everything. These were all good products until the investors, and not the customers, were the priority. I support independent kitchens... they are not getting my money. The quality sucks, and so does their business model. Hope she bounces vack...she's amazing. Love you Miyoko...this sucks.
I agree that the Capitalists ruin everything. I think supporting local is great. It just sucks that scaling in a meaningful way is almost impossible to do without getting the Capitalists involved 🤦🏻♀️
The question is . . . Can we continue trust that we can continue to consume these products without being “poisoned” by more financially expedient ingredient choices. You say that the “capitalists” ruin everything. Bill Gates and the eugenicists at the tippy tippy top have been ruining things in an even more diabolical way. That Apeel food coating is being applied to lemons! Who doesn’t use lemons? am not vegan, but I have several food sensitivities that have caused me to seek out Miyoko’s products. Thankfully I am now retired and can take the time to make yogurts, cheeses, and cultured vegan butter myself. I will buy her recipe books, and seek out specialty cultures for fermentation. Just discovered this channel. Good job!
@@TotallyForkable ...and yet almost invariably these smaller businesses opt to scale up. Why? Why not stay a small concern and serve your local community well? Miyoko seems to have a lot of integrity (although if she really did remove those products and tell retailers before the board then that is problematic) and I'm sure she just wanted to share her products far and wide rather than chasing the almighty dollar.
Same thing happens here in Australia. I was talking to a woman who owns an artisan cheese shop in Sydney. I'm from Tassie and i was talking about the brands I could get here and how the good stuff disappears or seems to be worse than in the past. She then told me that basically two large dairy producers had bought out these vegan companies. They might continue to make the products, but the love isn't there and they certainly don't declare on the packaging that the parent company is an inveterate torturer of animals on an industrial scale.
I love what Miyoko Schinner has created! As someone who has an adult-onset, severe, cow's milk allergy...her products changed my life. Vegan friends, don't judge but I didn't want to give up milk, cheese, and ice cream! But my life depended on giving those things up. She helped me transition. I wish her the best in all of her endeavors!
Thank you for sharing this; I think that’s why it’s so important to have high quality vegan alternatives to animal products. Her products are in a league of their own for sure. I’m glad they helped you!
Her vegan cheese products are so much better than all the other companies. I think they will ruin her product as most corporations that go big do.
Have you tried Chao and Violife? It's relaly good@@SuperBookdragon
@@artby1285 Which products would you recommend ?
We’re definitely judging you. Are you kidding? You’re hurting animals on purpose.
These kinds of videos are really where you shine. They're informative, thoughtful, intelligent, and engaging. Yes, this is something that happens often and it can be extremely challenging for founders to transition away from the CEO role. However, I do think there are a few other things at play here, which have yet to fully come to light. I wish Miyoko the best and will continue to support the brand (until I learn more and as long as they don't mess with the ingredients) as well as any new ventures from Miyoko herself. I hope you are well and love the new setup!
Thank you so much for these very kind words, Lily 🥹🙏🏻 I’m so glad you enjoyed the video, and it sounds like we are on the same page in our approach to the situation. I agree there is probably a lot more we haven’t heard so it will definitely be interesting to see how everything unfolds.
I can assure you they WILL mess with the ingredients.... and not just once. They will make it a regular evolution of re-formulating/market testing to find the sweet spot of maximum profits derived from the cheapest formulation that still yields highest possible sales which equates to best profit/bottom line. AND they will likely have the FDA in their pocket to so they can be not quite so honest in their list of ingredients etc etc. Its the same story with any science based food company pretty much.
I remember all of this. I was one of her online students that asked her to just open a store where we could purchase them. She had actually started working on a blue cheese to go with the wheels. She told us she had to get a larger facility to have them in their own aging area and not affect other cheeses. This is all so sad. I have all her books. I can't wait for more Phenomenal products to come from her mind.
Wow, this is such interesting insight! I didn't know she had been teaching online classes but that totally makes sense. It seems like she had an epic grassroots marketing campaign that came out of her being a rockstar in the vegan community for so long before launching a product. I bet a Miyoko's blue cheese would be amazing; I wonder why she never launched that one. I wish whatever journey is best for her but selfishly hope we will get more products from her in the future! In the meantime I love that she is democratizing her recipes by sharing them on her channel!
@@TotallyForkable I love how she always says: "you don't have to go out and buy expensive vegan products; you can make them yourself". With so many people on social media basically using their channels as a marketing exercise it's nice to see someone who is just passionate about food and wants to spread the love.
Good, but should we question the capitalistic management of start ups? Yes! I think the group we should condemn are the investors demanding quick profits before valuing slower solid growth towards building a legacy product and lower profit at first. These investors have screwed up several great products by pushing for early profits and their returns.
I totally agree; the system is to blame. Unfortunately, it seems like it would be rare to find an investor that really sees the big picture and isn't going to get greedy. And the VC firms with the most money are often the most unethical 🤦🏻♀️
One thing that article seems to glance over is that maximizing profit doesn't necessarily mean maximizing the company. I've worked for plenty of large companies that will focus on profit at the detriment of the products and customers.
Absolutely agree! I think it could even be argued that focusing on maximizing profit often comes at a cost to the company in the long term.
That actually describes most large companies.
The business world is cut throat and ruthless. Corporations tries to justify the takeover of Miyoko for the best interest of the business. They attempt to justify firing Miyoko as a solution because of business differences but this was her business, her decision to move foward in the direction she wanted. If the investers didn't like the direction then, they should have sold their shares and move on. Instead they chose to takeover the business for themselves. Miyoko may not have acute knowledge of the business world but she would have made her company a complete success maybe at a slower pace but she would have succeeded. She was in the process of growing with her company like many successsful entrepreneurs and making mistakes along the way is part of the game. To takeover a company from the creator is unethical. This is what corporations do with inexperienced business owners. They chew and spit them out and people like you support their company. Personally, I wouldn't support or purchase any product from Miyoko's for ethical reasons.
I agree 100%. I will not be purchasing any Miyoko's products unless she is reinstalled as CEO!
My dad had a small company - he was sued once from a company he sell his products to, with absurd claims. The reason? They wanted the prototyes of my dad's products because they wanted to use a much cheaper company to produce my dad's products, but they did not have the design/protoypes. The legal fees and the unpaid bills were blackmail tools to force my dad to give them the prototypes. I would nto be surprised if there was something similar happening here.
It's just kind of sad to me that everything has to always increase and grow and make more money and more more more! Especially as a vegan cook and hopefully a future entrepreneur myself, it's such a stressful way of seeing the world honestly.
Yes I totally agree. You would think being profitable and having a happy customer base would be the most important things, but nothing less than maximum profit is good enough in the world of VC. I have heard that as much as it can feel like a dream come true for a founder to get VC investment, it's often a kiss of death for their company or them as CEO (or both) because it sets up a cycle of impossible demands to fulfill.
I have stopped purchasing the products. I will follow her new channel and use her pantry cookbook to make my own products.
I was so disappointed when Miyoko’s block farmhouse cheddar was no longer available. Now I understand a bit about what happened.
I don’t use the other vegan cheeses and the butter more than a couple times a year.
I have her cheese and pantry cookbooks.
I will make my own and perhaps purchase a Miyoko product for special occasions.
I appreciate what she has brought to the vegan food options and hope she will find joy and satisfaction in her new journey.
A lot of people were disappointed to lose that product; the pepper jack too! I hope she will work on bringing new products at some point because she truly has a unique talent there and there's certainly a demand for it!
the popularity of those products was most likely because people were trusting the name. But, as you noted, they weren't so good. Therefore, they would've failed and tarnished their name, jeapordizing the sale of their other products.
I’m happy to be back with you guys! I apologize for the delay on this video-the scripting/filming/editing process stretched out longer than I would have liked. I have had some really difficult stuff going on in my personal life the last few weeks. I hope you enjoy this video and also my new setup 🌿
The business world is cut throat and ruthless. Corporations tries to justify the takeover of Miyoko for the best interest of the business. They attempt to justify firing Miyoko as a solution because of business differences but this was her business, her decision to move foward in the direction she wanted. If the investers didn't like the direction then, they should have sold their shares and move on. Instead they chose to takeover the business for themselves. Miyoko may not have acute knowledge of the business world but she would have made her company a complete success maybe at a slower pace but she would have succeeded. She was in the process of growing with her company like many successsful entrepreneurs and making mistakes along the way is part of the game. To takeover a company from the creator is unethical. This is what corporations do with inexperienced business owners. They chew and spit them out and people like you support their company. Personally, I wouldn't support or purchase any product from Miyoko's for ethical reasons.
@@nmf6620 I agree that the business world is cutthroat but Miyoko also made decisions along the way that ultimately led to this. To say "they chewed her up and spit her out" takes away her agency. I'm sure it's exciting getting offers from some of the biggest VC firms but there's also a blueprint of what these investors tend to do (as detailed in the "Founder's Dilemma" section of my video). Also, as I mentioned in the video, as far as we know Miyoko is still a huge beneficiary of the company, so while it may not have ended up the way she wanted, she still benefits when people buy her products. I think her culinary skills are amazing and I hope she will launch another product that we can all support!
@@TotallyForkable The founder's dilema is nothing but a course of action they intended to do despite she agreed to their terms. They wanted full control of her company and they succeeded. It doesn't matter if she made decisions that was not in agreement to theirs. This is her creation and birthright to make the best decision for her company. To takeover a company from the founder is like killing a baby and being compensated with money. The day this happens to you, you will think differently.
@Yoga Of Health This is a really good point; I wish I had touched on this in the video!
@@TotallyForkableWho never made decisions and later regreted? I am surprised with your words. It feels as if you are giving excuses the "investors" .
I feel like there’s a million more things I could have said on this topic; a 28 minute video doesn’t really do the nuance of this topic justice. Very much looking forward to hearing all of your thoughts!
As an owner of a family business with 20 employees, I am appalled by the whole story. Our business could have had investors and pushed extreme growth, but we’re just now willing to give up on our values just to have outsiders come i. Who are just interested in $$$ and ROI
Yes there is 100% a tradeoff. I understand how she could have felt like she was between a rock and a hard place (wanting to meet consumer demand but also not wanting to give up control) and I'm sure she did what she felt was best. I'm glad you are doing what feels best for your business!
@@TotallyForkable it’s probably also an issue if your company has enough money, high profit and zero debt like we do. That gives us the comfort of making our own decisions without having to go the investor way.
Truly the ideal position to be in!
👏🏻 Very interesting and very informative! I know it takes a lot of work to research and carefully articulate nuanced topics, and I appreciate it more than you know. Your videos like this make me wish you could have the resources to cover more topics. If you ever start a Patreon I will be happy to contribute. Regarding Miyoko, I agree with you about understanding both sides. I hope her story will encourage upcoming zero-to-one innovators to be persistent, and not make them worry about overcoming the founder’s dilemma. Marielle, thank you for another high quality video and I hope the things you are dealing with get better soon.
Thank you from the bottom of my heart for this absolutely lovely comment, Eva! These videos are a lot of work and I'm so happy you appreciate them! I agree that I hope Miyoko's legacy will be more of an inspiration than a cautionary tale. I miss our chats on IG and I hope you are doing well! 💖
@@TotallyForkable Thank you Marielle! 🥰
Greed is everywhere….
💯😞
So glad I came across your channel while watching Miyoko's one. Had just listened to The Korean Vegan podacast: Are you Ready? with Miyoko. I'm subscribed to your channel and getting notifications now. How were you off my radar? Vegan for 8 years with 2 (failed ) restaurants on my portfolio. I look up to Myioko, Korean Vegan, Wicked Kitchen, Sarah's Vegan Kitchen. Good Eatings, you name it. I got 2 hours of UA-cam to get through a day... but I'll take you on for an informed oppinion
Thank you so much for your support; I’m glad you found me! I’ll have to check out that Miyoko interview.
Great video. As I watched a couple of things occurred to me. Miyoko seems to be driven more by her passion for the vegan lifestyle and how that impacts the way we treat animals than by a desire to be filthy rich. The large investors are predictably, primarily motivated by dominating the market to make large profits. For example, the use of potato starch in a cheese substitute seems to serve the goal of making money and not the goal of providing a good, vegan alternative. Cheese is mainly fat with some protein. Potato is a filler. A cheap filler. It does not and will not ever taste like cheese or make the same nutritional contribution to your diet.
The Harvard article never seemed to consider that a founder might have a different definition of success than the tried and true but tired and formulaic one of venture capitalists. Venture capitalism is unconcerned with social change or environmental sustainability (or even the long term sustainability of a civilization. only quarterly returns matter within the scope of one man's lifetime). True, I'm no expert on the subject but the race to turn any new, successful small business into giant piles of money seems feverish and off course in a case like Miyoko's. Yes available funds and the ability to scale are important to Miyokos original mission but those resources should serve that mission, not replace it.
These are great points. I think you’re spot on about what Miyoko was driven by. Also, I think she is a “foodie” in the true sense of the word. She spent much of her life seeking out unique culinary experiences and flavors (especially cheeses), and then was able to essentially “bottle” that up and sell it. I think she was probably okay with her company being more of a slow burn in order to keep the “artisanal” experience, but obviously the investors had other plans.
I agree about the Harvard article missing out on the “core values” version of success, although it touched on it in saying founders often have motivating factors that conflict with the desire for money. It really seems like Miyoko and her investors were a terrible fit. Sadly they probably assured her in the beginning that her mission was important to them and that they wanted her to always be at the helm. And then of course flipped the script (just speculation of course).
honestly i don't think it's a good thing for the company that still needs artistic talent when it comes to creating new and better quality cheeses to turn and focus on profit to satisfy investors. i've seen this time and time again and they just start cutting all possible corners and make worst and worst products to make better margins with cheaper ingredients. if this is the road they are going towards. i don't think people will like them very long if they start puppeteering an old image that people have of the company back when Miyoko was the artisan behind all decisions to sell poorly made industrial products.
This a very bleak, and likely true, outlook. Creativity gets undervalued time and time again the business world, and the "money people" never seem to learn their lesson. Hopefully they won't lose too many of their talented team of R&D, taste testers etc. during this transition. But yes you're right, if they decide to cut corners to maximize profit, they will destroy, or at least tarnish, what Miyoko built very quickly.
Amazing video as always, Marielle. I always find myself agreeing with your views which are always nuanced and thought through. I hope you're doing well despite whatever you have going on 💙
Thank you so much for your support Melanie, and I'm so glad you enjoyed the video!! 🙏🏻❤
Such a well thought video describing what happened. I so appreciate what you’ve put out here. Like you, I’m going to continue supporting both.
Thank you so much, I'm glad you enjoyed it! 🙏🏻
I’ve been away for a while. So you know, I think about you, and send you positive thoughts regularly. I am one of the undecided ones. Looking forward to watching your video right now. I hope everything is going well with you!
“It can be hard being a vegan in a world that’s so aggressively non-vegan.”Well said!
Sending those positive thoughts right back to you, Dan!! 🙏🏻 Hopefully this video brought you some clarity on this confusing topic!
Like many, I was clueless as to what was happening. Thank you for such an indepth explanation of Miyoko Schinner's parting ways with the company she founded. Like you, I will continue to support Miyoko and her future ventures. I will also continue to buy that delicious European style butter she created while part of Miyoko's Creamery
You're welcome and I'm happy this video was helpful!
Well researched and presented - thank you. Your explanation did help me as I had been struggling with - to support or not to support Miyoko’s. I will continue to support the company and follow Miyoko’s efforts in future and donate to her sanctuary.
I'm so glad you found it helpful! Thanks for letting me know.
My first time hearing. I thought I would find a snippet of her first lecture at UC Berkeley after seeing her post on Instagram about it. I love the mozzarella wheel and was disappointed to see other flavors not being sold at Whole Foods. I wish Miyoko good luck and success in her future endeavors and Miyokos creamery the same. Thanks for making this video. I learned a lot!👍🏻😁✌🏻👋🌱
We’ll, as a lactose intolerant individual I followed Miyoko when she taught us how to make our own cheese and travel all over the country.
As for the creamery who still uses her name illegally and her likeness to make money without her permission and involvement, I decided to make my own following her recipes and experimenting in my kitchen. So, I for one will boycott them and follow her only.
I think that's great; I need to get back to her cheese cookbook and experiment some more! Do we know for sure that she's not involved with the company anymore? The only info I could find publicly is their amicable mutual statements and the quote from James Joaquin that "she's still a large owner and on the board."
Thank you I really was in the dark what happened, this really cleared things up!
So glad it helped!! 🙏🏻
Great presentation but I think from 2020 they faced the backlash from lockdowns too, which did slow down all businesses. They do not share any internal and production challenges about that time so they are scapegoating Miyiko for pulling the products? Does not feel like a complete picture. Thoughts?
I am really worried that as the board decides to grow the company they will compromise the products Miyoko has developed. Greed often translates into watering down the product, using inferior ingredients etc.
At least we have many of her homemade recipes which are delicious.
Absolutely. Someone already commented that they are starting to add suspicious ingredients, although I can't say I've seen that yet. Part of me thinks if they are able to lower the price of the products it could be a good thing overall. Meanwhile hopefully Miyoko will go on to launch another amazing product! She posted on IG a few days ago that she is working on new cheeses (for a new cookbook, but still, maybe a new product too? 👀)
Oh wow I had no idea about all that, thanks for the well researched info and like you I'd definitely still will support Miyoko's bc it's nostalgic and it's still her idea no matter what the money vultures ,I mean people, try to take from it...
You're absolutely right; no amount of money can buy innovation and Miyoko will always have that magic with her no matter what! In the meantime, hopefully she continues to get rich from the legacy she built.
You do a great job with the research and presentation of information. Thanks for sharing all your hard work with the rest of us!
You're so welcome; comments like yours make it all worth it!
Another great video, thank you for your hard work. I will always be team Miyoko, love her cookbooks, can't wait to see (taste) what she does next.
So glad you enjoyed it!! And yes, I cross my fingers she will launch another product some day!
Loved to hear your views on this subject, as well as the facts, since I didn't know much about it before either. Thanks!
So glad you enjoyed it!! 😊
I was unaware! Thank you for the balanced view as you unpacked the issue. Much appreciated. Just subscribed! 🙂
Thanks for your comment; so glad you enjoyed it!
Can you update this? I don't think Miyoko is still on the Board...and it would be good to ground-truth if she has a part ownership.
I can't find any info on her board or ownership status. As far as I know the only public updates have been her and Miyoko's both issuing statements on their socials stating they have resolved their dispute and mutually praising each other. I'm guessing this course of action was agreed upon in some sort of settlement they reached, but the details of that settlement I'm sure are shrouded in NDAs. When I last checked Miyoko was replying to comments with "no comment!" so I'm not sure if there's any way of knowing if she is a) still on the board and b) still a large owner of the company. Obviously it would be nice to know this information to determine whether or not to still support the company, but I haven't seen that info anywhere. My guess would be that they reached an enormous settlement for Miyoko with the stipulation that she go away quietly.
What a great run-down of the issue. Thank you! I agree with you on both fronts: supporting Miyoko personally and Miyoko’s.
Thanks for watching and sharing your thoughts! 😊
Having high standards that' s what makes her proucts so great
I agree. I truly hope she will come out with more products in the future, although she seems to be burned out from that endeavor at this point.
Thanks for your informative video. I have also seen quite a few companies fire the founder and basically take over. I really appreciated the points made from Harvard Business about why founders usually are bought out and/or fired. I will still continue to buy Miyoko’s Creamery products because I think it’s the best vegan butter on the market. I also have all her cookbooks which I use quite often. Thanks again!
I'm so glad you enjoyed it! And yes, it seems to be a tried and true blueprint for scaling a business. I keep wanting to make something else from her cheese cookbook--one of these days I will do it!
I want to say thank you for this video. I just found out about this yesterday and was so disappointed by it.
As a vegan and artist, I cannot with a clear conscience support this company. When I saw what happened, my first thought was, "They cannibalized her." My second thought was, "They took her through the same process and they do in the dairy industry. They milk the mama--take her baby, she cries. The rack. When they drain her, they put her out to slaughter." The same process was also done in trans-atlantic slavery. Then, it also made me think of fair trade. The very same reasons we look to fair trade--the ethically sourced items free of slavery and oppression, is precisely what they've done to Schinner.
The greedy always want to scale up something that is art. They have no creativity and always work to enslave those who do. For several years I've been seeing that there is no room for artists, creatives, or true innovators in America. The greedy just come steal everything. I know what it's like to have that happen. Some of the biggest businesses with poor quality in America are rip-off, theft, and betrayal companies.
With the betrayal and the way she's been cannibalized to feed yet another part of corporate greed, I cannot support that company. I felt something so off when I would buy the cheese. It felt wrong, but I did not know why. Now I know.
I can support Miyoko Schinner. I am soooo looking forward to getting those books and re-watching Vegan Mashup :D
But, I cannot support corporate predators, rapine actions, and oppression. I'm not led by my belly. I can do without it.
Thanks for sharing your thoughts! I especially agree with the third paragraph; I have sadly seen this far too often. It's this strange relationship where innovators and investors need each other--the investors need the innovators' creativity; the innovators need the investors' capital. Unfortunately it's _way_ easier for the investors to take advantage of the innovators--and get away with it 🤦🏻♀️
I've been thinking of doing a one year later follow-up to this video and you've given me a lot to think about!
Thanx for some clarification and perspective.
You’re very welcome!
Interesting video. I didn't know about that "zero to one" book. It will be interesting to see how this plays out. I'm a big fan of Miyoko.
Yes; learning about the book really put things into perspective for me! I wonder if Miyoko herself had been familiar with it; it doesn't seem like it. It seems like the book had a pretty big impact on the business/startup world.
And I agree; Miyoko is a true pioneer who has brought the vegan community so much over the years!
@@TotallyForkableOne of my first thoughts when I first heard about this story was that maybe they didn't like Miyoko's activism. My cynical side can almost imagine them removing the "phenomenally vegan" on their labels and changing it to "plant-based" or something. But you bring up a good point that it is common for companies to fire the founders. Anyway, hope she does well getting through all this.
Truthfully, I appreciate what you've presented here. There are quite a few facts, which I didn't know. Thank you for putting in the research.
You're so welcome, and I'm glad it was helpful!
This was so very interesting. You just popped up in my UA-cam. I've subscribed & can't wait to check out everything else you have to offer.
Thank you so much Sheri; happy to have you!
Thank you. Excellent video. Actually the best information I've seen on what happened with Miyoko. And I do follow her on all social media. She has new UA-cam videos and they are phenomenal. Even I, (who does not cook. Unless I am under great duress and have no other choice), have subscribed to her channel and have made one of the items. O.k just one, but for me it is a 100% increase.
So glad you enjoyed the video, and also glad you are enjoying Miyoko's content!
How can you steal your own creation?
This is a really excellent question and it's pretty baffling. My guess is that, at some point along the way, she signed away rights to her recipes as part of a deal. She probably never imagined it being an issue. This is all just speculation of course.
Hi. I watch a lot of UA-cam and this video is really impressive. Great great job.
This is so nice; thank you so much!! 🙏🏻
SO appreciated this video - I literally just found out about this and your video really told the whole story. Would love it you could do a video on the ousting of Captain Paul Watson of Sea Shepherd too - very similar situation but as a nonprofit, so curious how you might view that!
I'm so glad you found the video informative! And thank you for the suggestion about Sea Shepherd; I had heard mention of that but didn't realize it was such a similar situation. I'll look into it!
Ty! So confusing. Ran into Miyoko at the CVS in Petaluma. I told her she was one of my Idols. Bless her and her vision. Interested in any updates? Lmk! Thx, Phoebe
Hi! I actually interviewed her earlier this year where she was pretty forthcoming; not sure if you've seen it but here it is: ua-cam.com/video/vvSymkvMRII/v-deo.htmlsi=FzluN2RN9Gc0Ul7r
Thank you for this well researched video Marielle. You did an awesome job!
As humans we tend to quickly jump to negative conclusion so I’ve compiled a quick list of why this could be a good think:
- maybe she has more time now to share her recipes on YT so people who can’t buy the products can make their own
- maybe she wasn’t entirely happy being a CEO and prefers to be a chef and has more impact that way
- maybe the company grows much quicker because of the investors pushing for growth and that means more people get to bye the products which maybe saves a lot of cows than if she had stayed
- maybe the money the investors make from this goes to fund other vegan businesses that save even more animals
Point is: We just don’t know… 😃
It’s such a hard situation! I feel the same way as you.
Another great video! Love it, keep going buddy,!
Thank you so much Austin! 🤗
First time viewer, subscribed.
Thank you, and welcome! 😊
I didn’t even know until know that this happened 😮. I’m guessing this is why the website was no longer taking orders.
Adulting is difficult.
Boycotting sends an important message when it needs to be sent, and it can be VERY effective.
I doubt if anyone has ever been harmed being on the Boycotting side of a Boycott. (except in the selfish & self-interest senses)
If so, you probably need to take a step back and take a look at your life and life choices and probably reset or re-align.
I think boycotting can be effective when there's a specific goal/outcome in mind. I.e., in the case of Amy's Kitchen, boycotting until the workplace hazards and union-busting have been resolved. In the case of Miyoko's, I'm not sure what the goal of a boycott would be. Get the company to go out of business? At this rate it doesn't seem like Miyoko would ever resume her CEO post even if it were offered to her, and as far as we know she is still financially benefiting from the sales.
This was extremely helpful....thank you for all your research and work putting this together! I initially was going to boycot BUT I also love her products and so agree with "hard to be vegsn" in today's world..(vegan since 1994)...anyway...GREAT job...and I am not boycotting her products!!
I'm so glad you found this helpful!! If you haven't seen it, I interviewed Miyoko last week and got to ask her a lot of the lingering questions from this video; you can watch it here: ua-cam.com/video/vvSymkvMRII/v-deo.html
I have to say...I haven't purchased Miyokos products since she removed the slices from production. Even if they weren't the best-tasting, they had healthier ingredients than other vegan cheese slices, and for those of us that made them popular, that was probably more important than taste comparison. I drink water, but I prefer the taste of Diet Coke. It was a stupid decision.
I completely agree. Those products filled a niche and their removal led to a ton of head-scratching and frustration in the vegan community. Like I said the line must have been making money and that's why the investors were so frustrated. I still miss the pepper jack (and the garlic butter! 😣).
I don't have time to watch this, but recently, I was at a vegan event and they were serving Miyoko Cheese. it didn't taste the same. I didn't know they fired her, but it makes sense because the cheese does not taste as good as it used to when she was making it.
Ugh, I hate to hear that. This is what many people were afraid of when they kicked her out, that they would start changing recipes to maximize profit. I haven’t had their cheese in a while so I haven’t experienced it yet.
@@TotallyForkable there was a variety of Miyoko cheeses there at this show just two weeks ago: pesto, gouda, cheddar, smoked cheddar, and many others I can't remember. None of them tasted like I remember. I started to really question if my tastebuds were damaged. But clearly no, the cheese is missing something now. Maybe they don't age it long enough.
I was at a trade show a few years ago and the Miyoko booth had experimental hard cheeses there that I thought were going to hit the shelves soon. Those cheeses were AMAZING!!!! I am so glad I got to try them. It shows how gourmet and nuanced they can be.
Miyoko is very important to the planet
Agreed!
I love Miyoko Schinner and support her but, at the same time, I think we should support any vegan venture, including Miyoko's Creamery.
The more vegan products producers the better for our movement.
I agree, especially when looking through the lens of the goal of the movement at large (ending animal suffering). A company wanting to scale may be bad for some (in this case, unfortunately, Miyoko who was not on board with that plan), but her products becoming more available to the masses is ultimately going to be very good for the animals.
Very interesting video :) I never had any Miyoko products because of my location buy they seem to be very highly rated by people !
Thanks for watching!
Thanks I learned a lot !
You’re welcome, and so glad! 🙏🏻
Great video, very informative and well made! You are very pretty, your look and voice kinda remind me of Vegan Bodegacat :D
I can't finish the whole video rn but I will circle back to it soon
Thank you for the kind words!! Glad you enjoyed the video 😊
Her butter is the only butter I will buy, other than that I will make it myself
No other butters compare!
Thank you for the video. I must say, the microphone feedback "buzzing" in the video during your on camera talking sections, made it very difficult to watch. Please troubleshoot what could be the cause of the buzzing feedback noise for the sake of your future videos and those who watch them.
Thanks for your comment--that's strange; I'm not hearing any feedback at all on my end!
What you are saying at the end about '' hard to be vegan '', I totally relate and agree with you. I've lived all my life in a literal food desert in a family without much money, we had to make a 3 hours drive to the nearest supermarket and the vegan products there costed an arm and a leg. It was the only supermarket in the region before it closed down. It was not possible to order online, and vegan at the time I was having the discussion online didn't even know what I was talking about because they had access to many vegan stores and items, they were non-disabled, they lived in big cities that had lots of vegan restaurants, meanwhile I never ever saw a restaurant with a single Vegan options in my life other than Burger king. I think Vegans often forget now everything is black or white, life is a spectrum and because they often have narrow views because of the emotional side of Veganism ( totally understandable ) it's important to remember the human !
This is such a thoughtful and insightful comment and I thank you for sharing this. I agree there is a big disconnect between the ideals of Veganism and the reality for so many people. There are so many hurdles to overcome for many before even getting to the privileged place of being able to "choose" to go vegan.
@@TotallyForkable 🙏🏼🙏🏼
Felt this in my soul. Vegan for almost 30 years now and grew up in a ghetto. But it made me innovative. Vegans these days, especially wealthy vegans, don't realize how easy they have it.
So true , it's sad to me that often the most aggresives Vegans are the one who are wealthy and have no ideas about other people life. It makes me so angry and sad@@rebeccaspratling2865
@@rebeccaspratling2865 I definitely recognize my privilege in being a vegan that, for the most part, can afford to buy the foods I want, live in an area where I have access to vegan items, etc. My point in saying "it's hard" is to acknowledge that as hard it is for me, with my level of privilege, I can only imagine how much harder it is for others. This is why I don't think it's helpful/productive to criticize people for the vegan products they buy. As it relates to Miyoko's, I won't criticize someone for supporting them because maybe Miyoko's is the only vegan cheese/butter they can find at their local store or the only one they like.
ive not been able to get into vegan cheese until
miyoko this year! ive been really eager to learn more about her and noticed she posted her recipe online! i thank you
for telling us all about her!
You are so welcome, and I'm glad Miyoko's got you into vegan cheese! It's definitely one of the best out there.
Thank You...
They started putting more chemicals into her pretty pure products. I knew she must have been taken over. I will NOT eat any of the newer products because of all of the junk ingredients in them. Her recipes were pure and it is moving towards a precipice of junk.
Cream cheese was one of earliest ones...
This is very sad to hear. As you can see from the comments here, that's what most people were afraid of. What have they added? And has the price changed at all?
The first vegan cultured butter is the same, and so is the original cream cheese. It's on the newer products that have all the processed 'food chemicals' like the made for baking vegan oat butter, and newer cheeses. The other products in the market like Daiya or Violife have them too - but I'm allergic to them all so I am very cognizant because I read all labels! I don't have the list off the top of my head because I won't buy them, but if you compare the original vegan cultured butter to the newer one you will see, clearly! I didn't know the story you shared here - so that was informative (thank you) but I figured she must have gotten a larger company to invest or buy her out.... because that has happened in the past with other purer recipes too leading to products by other brands I no longer can use...
@@TotallyForkable
Thanks for sharing. It's really such a shame because, like you said, the unique selling point of Miyoko's products is that they were different from the other vegan dairy products. I know it was important to Miyoko to maintain that integrity but obviously the board didn't agree. Miyoko, please come back with a new product soon!!
Ok i had to pause to figure out what 0 to 1 meant and that was very frustrating. It means going from unproductive to being productive. 1 to 100 in the unhighlighted part just sounds like they want exponential growth which is unsustainable. I can't even find my vegan cheese anymore. I can't eat miyoko's cheese I have to eat chao or daiya. I can find the butter and that's it. So I guess this company tanked. I'm here because I started watching her channel and she's going to put out a vegan cheese cook book next year in the hopes that making vegan cheese can be more open source and I think that's beautiful. As for feedback for this video I needed to know what 1 to 0 meant faster because I had to go try and find this on google because I had no idea if you were going to explain it or not. Thanks for the info though.
I’d start checking the ingredients. They will most likely start subbing lower cost inferior products like seed oils to increase their margins.
So far it seems like no major changes have been made, but I'd be curious to see what happens in the future.
First time. That's business!
I don't think that the number of products are directly relevant to company growth. Ability to bring existing products to new places is also important, and there's still a lot of room for that with Miyoko's Creamery. I live near DC, there are multiple grocery stores in my town, and, as far as I can tell, there's nowhere within a 15-minute drive that sells the pizza mozarella, and I've been wanting to try it. I've only ever seen their kids' cheddar cheese sticks in a local store. There are an above-average number of vegans here, so I think they could still expand where they're sold.
I also don't think it's wrong to pull products that don't meet a certain quality standard. Miyoko's is seen as the high-end stuff, and I think there's good reason for that. All the reviews I've seen suggest that they're substantially closer to the flavor and texture of dairy than most of their competitors. If they rush to release a ton of new products, they'll lose that reputation, they may need to drop their prices to better compete, and their lack of market penetration compared to Daiya, Follow Your Heart, Chao, and others will put them at a disadvantage.
A lot of venture capital firms are looking for short-term profit, not long-term sustainability. Given the general lack of options for vegan cheese, I think most of us would rather see them in it for the long haul, but their investors would probably be happy to pump the valuation, plunder it, and dump it. I've worked at a place that was bought by a venture capital firm and I saw just that happening in slow motion.
I also fully believe her when she says there was systemic misogyny, because that is often how things are in corporate america, even to this day. Particularly the ability for men to make mistake and bad decision after mistake and bad decision and always come out of it ok, but when a woman does the same, she doesn't get the same benefit of the doubt.
I suspect the quality of the products and the working conditions at the company will decline in the coming years, and now I'm not sure if I'm even interested in hunting down their products.
I definitely agree about VC looking for short-term gain and systemic misogyny at play. I'm surprised that the products didn't reach the DC suburbs! CT is essentially one giant suburb, and a not particularly vegan friendly one at that, and most grocery stores started carrying her products early on. I think my point about the timeline is it seemed a bit inconsistent; times of huge growth followed by a long time with no new products. And yes I agree on pulling products for quality reasons; perhaps what they should have done in the case of the cheddar/pepperjack was just pick one iteration to market test before they came out with like 7 products based around them. It seems like they potentially sunk a lot of capital into those products with the hope/expectation they would be a hit. But of course I understand Miyoko's standards as I stated in the vid! Thanks for sharing your thoughts!
If she said she was fired, how is she still working there, according to the company? And how is buying the products still generating an income for her?
I don't believe they said she's still working there; one of the investors said she was still a "large owner." However, I'm not sure how it all shook out after their settlement. Keep an eye on my channel this week; I'm posting an interview that may clear a lot of things up 👀
Well done!
Thank you Kelly; so glad you enjoyed!
Sigh. Fortunately, there are other companies out there that make good vegan cheese and there's also Miyoko's book, because I'm out when it comes to buying from Miyoko's former company. This company and No Evil (which was really evil to its employees during the early days of the pandemic) have proven that profits are more important to them than ethics. Humans, also animals, deserve to be treated decently as well.
Honestly, once Miyoko's creamery decided to drop the Monterey Jack slices, they became less essential to me anyway.
I respect your decision! And yes the loss of the Pepper Jack slices (I think you're referring to those) was a big loss!
As a vegan, I am finding myself unable to buy vegan products which come in unethical packaging, continuing to support products in plastic which is mostly not being recycled and is destroying our planet goes against my ethics. I wish more vegans would talk about this issue. Plastic is destroying our planet and we most hold these large corporations accountable.
I agree it's a big issue but I don't think it's as simple as we think. Things like regulations, ability to mass produce and keep products fresh likely present all kinds of obstacles.
I revisited this video because I recently bought some Miyoko's butter, both the salted and unsalted, for the first time since they changed the packaging. It totally tastes different to me. Am I crazy? Did I simply get two bad batches? Has anyone else noticed a difference? I am so bummed. I loved it even more than I used to love real butter back when I consumed animal products. 😭
That's awful! I'm sorry to hear that. Was it the oat butter or cashew? We have continued to buy the cashew and can't say I've noticed a huge taste difference. PS if you haven't seen it, I just posted an interview with Miyoko! ua-cam.com/video/vvSymkvMRII/v-deo.html&lc=UgwLzBYKfjblmVFMd6F4AaABAg&ab_channel=TotallyForkable
It was the cashew kind. I haven't tried the oat version yet. And I immediately watched that beautiful interview you did with Miyoko.❤Great job! @@TotallyForkable
So glad you enjoyed it! And I truly hope we will get Miyoko Schinner products again at some point 🫶🏻
Ty, this cleared up things remarkably. I've only read some very dramatic personal comments ab this on social media and really didn't know what to think lol. I agree, we should support both sides in this. We should't boycott vegan business'. Although i get it when there are some shady ceo's we want to step back, but they'll be always there when ever business' grow bigger. EDIT: oh this was made 2 mths ago? I wonder is there any new developments in the law case?
I'm soglad you found this informative! The most recent update I have seen was both Miyoko and Miyoko's posting statements saying their issues have been resolved, they mutually appreciate and wish each other the best, etc. Extremely vague. It would be nice to know if she's still on the board/still a large owner but I'm guessing whatever agreement they worked out came with a strict NDA.
Lol. It's so funny to hear people say oh it's so hard being a vegan these days. Yes it's slightly inconvenient but yall don't know how big of a win it was for walmart to start carrying soy milk and gluten free foods. Back in the 80s you had to go to a mom and pop health food store to get anything that was vegan. Regular grocery stores didn't have anything for us. I don't even remember vegan cheese being around back then. The whole vegan space has been so elevated through vegan cook books, restaurants and UA-cam cooks it looks completely different from back then. Tofutii was one of the first in this space that i can remember and i really wish they were more prominent today than they are. They still have the best cream cheese.
Ps. I bought 3 of miyoko cream cheese a few years ago from different stores still in date and all of them had mild growing on them. I'm wondering if quantity control was an issue in 2021ish time frame.
I have serious respect for anyone who was vegan before, say, 2010! Personally I feel there are still plenty of hurdles in 2023 so I can only imagine what it was like in the '80s 😳
In my 2020 Miyoko's taste test vid I had ordered a pre-release bundle from the company and there was mold on one of the butters. I think because the products are cultured it can create a more prime environment for mold growth. This was the only time it happened to me; it's pretty bad that you had this experience 3 times though!
Well said
Thank you!
Growth/profits become more important than quality.
Yes, or values! 😞
What's funny is, i have NO IDEA about ANY of her cheese lol. I only know about and use the butter. For years now.
That's so interesting! The cheese was definitely her first product to market and what I'd say she's known for. The butter is amazing though so I understand!
rebel cheese! that seems like the new best company
I've been very impressed with their products I've tried! Still not widely available though and quite a bit more expensive than the Miyoko's cheeses, which are expensive to begin with.
I dunno. Myoko just isn't a thing here. Good video tho. ❤❤❤
Ahh yes; I forget that while her brand/product is huge in the US, it really doesn't exist in other countries. However! I do remember seeing an article that they had expanded to Australia; maybe it was short-lived? vegnews.com/2019/10/miyokos-vegan-cheese-and-butter-expand-to-australia
Its best to NOT go public with a company YOU start !!!
To be fair, they never went public. She _did_ take on outside investment which seemed to hurt her in the end. Many founders are faced with an impossible choice when the only way to grow their company is to take on investment. From what I've learned over the years, founders almost always get f***ed in the end. It's truly a broken system.
Sounds to me like Miyoko was putting quality over profits and this irritated investors so they tried to relegate her to an irrelevant role in the company which she refused so they fired her and the company has not done anything remarkable or new since.
I think that's pretty spot-on! If you haven't seen it, I interviewed her recently and she shared some more insights as to what happened: ua-cam.com/video/vvSymkvMRII/v-deo.html
@@TotallyForkable I did watch that one, thank you for interviewing her, we like her products and her cooking videos and we're both relieved to know the drama surrounding her and her company are pretty clearly the fault of investors and not herself. Its a bummer, I actually kinda liked the pepperjack cheese and was looking forward to an improved version that will we will likely never see now, thanks to corporatism.
Not sure if anyone else asked this yet, but what if the point or goal for a business like this is not wealth-maximization, but wealth stability? Is it possible to successfully do that with a vegan business or any business model or is that ridiculous in the land of capitalism? Like, I know you mentioned no ethical consuming companies under capitalism, but is this possible with the right investors and board? I know NOTHING about business, lol. ❤
Really good question, and I think "stability" would be a great thing to aim for and many more businesses would survive (and even thrive!) under this mentality. Unfortunately the way of capitalism does seem to be pushing for constant growth. I'm not sure if you watched my interview with Miyoko from a few months ago, but she really emphasized this.
Miyoko has her own UA-cam channel youtube.com/@thevegangoodlifewithmiyoko?si=y-HZQUoV_oaZeNLU with some say her recipes are better then the Miyoko's Creamery. Funny 🤣😂🤣🤣🤣🤣
I love her channel!! P.S. keep an eye on my channel for a very special video on this topic coming out next week ❤️
There’s nothing like her products! I recently tried to use violife butter in rice krispy treats and ended up with plastic. I never got to add the cereal!
Nothing tastes like miyokos
Yes there’s no competition that comes even close…I just wonder if Miyoko herself will try to compete now!
See I don’t think one has to accept what happens in business. As a vegan you don’t accept what people say about eating meat for good nutrition. Change doesn’t occur by just accepting what happens. The company would not be there if someone like Myoko didn't venture into the unknown. Really take a chance, boycott. This should not have happened. I will not be supporting the company.
I completely respect this viewpoint!
Call me stupid but how do you get fired from the company you literally created from scratch? I get that growth and hiring staff, experienced professionals and securing funding has to come from elsewhere, but WTF? Kind of the equivalent of having your child stolen away by richer, better educated people who appoint themselves as the new parents!
I think oftentimes people who have a creative, compassionate mind don't also have a cutthroat business mind, so it must be very difficult to wear both hats/navigate both of those worlds at the same time. You are relying on people more experienced to help guide you through and I think founders tend to have the optimism that people will help them keep their "baby" intact/in their control. Unfortunately it seems there are people who take advantage of this naivete.
@@TotallyForkable Yep, profit is king and to hell with compassion.
Civics101: Reminder that *election winners* make the laws, determine the punishments, set the tax brackets, create the budgets, and shape the judiciary. So please go to your local county Democratic Party headquarters and offer your support, time, energy, enthusiasm, friendship, skills, talents, and encouragement to help the BLUE party win elections. Offer to organize your local Democratic precinct to help get out the vote for Dems. Meet your neighbors. Support Dems.
Politics is Power. The Power to pass good laws that help people, protect the planet, and support animal habitats.
Politics is partisan. Individual candidates don't pass laws. Parties pass laws.
See the Blue voter guide.
🗽🌊⚖️🇺🇲🥰
Soy is not a good alternative
Miyoko is a vegan hero! Her cheese is the best!
She's a true asset to the vegan world; that's for sure!
This is suuuch horses**t lol. So greed! Daiya and Chao already have great distribution of their products among other brands. There are multiple vegan cheese alternatives available to choose from nowadays. So this pretend altruism business about "getting more products to the people" is silly. We need QUALITY vegan alternatives in the market today, and with what Miyoko has done in her other recipes, I trust her judgement on what products are good enough to stay. "Founders' attachment, overconfidence and naivete.." hmmm. I doubt any of the business bone heads there have any idea what a good vegan cheese should taste like. Of course this situation is not unique to Miyoko which is why capitalism is a very flawed system. The rich bone heads without a creative and often without an empathetic bone in their body, invest large amounts into the company and the founder signs their rights away on a piece of paper. Yes, this is what happens but it's our system of doing things that is an issue(more money more authority). Some of the responsibility does land on Miyoko however, as it is important to only accept these kinds of deals with people you fully trust to have your vision and best interests at heart. Maybe she did trust them, but in the end it's about whether our trust was well placed. It's the same as with the music industry. Bland products are rushed out without the artist's consent to most of the choices.. and the audience eats it up because of how it is marketed and because it is played in so many forms of media that they can't NOT hear it anywhere(the "if you cant beat them, join them!" effect that many less free thinking people are swept away by), thus it make lots of money because it is connected to a celebrity they idolize and it is simple and widespread enough that everyone knows it. I would rather have Miyoko's most authentic work than pay for what others "decide" is good.
You make a lot of great points!
"Mansplaining", is not a serious allegation. It's women basically not accepting men for who and what they are: basically, not women. Once a woman starts to make that kind of accusation, I pretty much know they have no argument to fall back on. Undoubtedly, this case is a dumpster fire. And I'm outie.
Sorry it's been a while since I made/watched this video; I don't remember a part about mansplaining?
While the differences in the companies are there, By Chloe sucked when she was the founder, so I only went once, and I'm sure it still does. Miyoko's products are solid; she is old school, so I care much more about her than Chloe.
I LOVED By Chloe back in the day! When I lived in LA they opened their second ever location down the street from me so I went for the opening. Chloe was there and seemed super hands-on; I went/ordered from them all the time. HOWEVER, I did start noticing a drop in quality at some point and then when all the news came out, it turned out that drop was around the time all the legal drama started. I didn't support them after that.