Please, everyone. The thumbnail/title are meant to be a bit cheeky/overdramatic. I don’t think anyone hates us (well, actually i do, but not necessarily Beyond & Impossible 😂).
I'm a big fan of homemade WFPB burger patties and otherwise minimally/unprocessed foods like legumes (e.g. lentil 'ground beef') and tofu. Tofu is so versatile! I don't do well with food preservatives, and generally try to eat primarily whole foods, so I haven't really tried out mock meats, Beyond/Impossible Burgers, etc. I know I'm hardly typical though and I recognize the need for mock meats for most people who miss specific meat textures. I never missed meat and I'm happy occasionally splurging on fancy PB cheeses (yum!). P.S. Cute cat co-star! lol
The longer I'm vegan, the more I am drawn to legumes, tofu and tempeh as my main sources of protein. I wonder if there's something to that--the longer someone goes without meat the less they crave it (I'm sure there is). And yes to fancy vegan cheese splurges!! nothing better ☺️
Marielle, know this, you literally have the best vegan content on UA-cam. Best being a very broad term, as your content is primarily food based but your research, delivery, personality, and charisma for the subject shines miles beyond other vegan UA-camrs at the moment.
I found her videos yesterday and have been binging I love video essays and veganism so I love how her videos combine those I also like how she relates it to what’s currently going on like the got milk? And Taylor swift video.
I am vegan and loveee the hyper realistic mock meats. I never understood why someone wouldn't. We know it's not real its just a flavor and texture that tastes good. And hopefully will bring more meat eaters to the other side. Thanks for the vid! ❤
This was always my sentiment too until this latest iteration of slightly "chewier" ones as I described. But yes, I think it's great for vegans who miss it and for omnis to try something different!
24 years ago, all I had was a plate full of salad and tofu blocks to make call a meal. No mock meat, pseudo cheese and forget nut milk. Todays choices are amazing for vegans, vegetarians and those curious in plant based food. I applaud impossible burger and beyond burger and any company that creates credible non-animal products that might shift a carnivore’s choices. Anything to shut down animal farming .
Interesting and informative. Just needs more discussion of how plant meat competes with government-subsidized animal meat on a not-so-level playing field.
👏🏻 I agree with all your points. Very interesting to learn about Protose. I hadn’t thought about the uncanny valley phenomenon applying to mock meats but it absolutely does!
I get nervous about ordering hyperrealistic mock meats at a restaurant, especially fast food. I know fast food workers are overworked and often end up working on muscle memory to meet the demand for speed. I always have to double and triple check when I order sofritas at Chipotle, and that stuff isn't super realistic as mock meat goes. I'm worried I wouldn't be able to tell if I was accidentally given real meat if I ordered a super realistic mock meat. So I just go for beans where available when I order from a restaurant. Some places don't have anything better than just a veggie side, though. :( I do kind of wonder who the target audience is for some of the mock meat options out there. I recently tried the raised and rooted nuggets and they look like nuggets (though the coating resembles tempura more than a typical nugget coating) but they taste strongly like peas. I don't even want to eat that again, and I doubt omnivores looking for meat alternatives would either. I do like some of the realistic mock meats you don't like, though the super realistic ones tend to be way pricier. I do like the gardein ultimate mock chicken, but it's $9 per bag here, and I just can't justify that. Luckily, my grocery store still carries the original gardein stuff, though the price has gone up on that too, so I don't get it as often as I used to. I'm not really interested in the mock meats that try to get that bloody flavor, but I do like the beyond ground beef substitute. It's got a strong umami taste I enjoy, though the texture is a bit scary. Again, it's pretty expensive though, and I think my grocery store has been struggling to sell it because it's been on a permanent deep sale this whole year so far.
Yes, I've actually seen quite a bit of discussion in online vegan communities lately about being paranoid to order the hyper realistic mock meat options and, even in a few cases, people being served meat and trusting it was vegan, only to find out later it wasn't! Many vegans say they will only order mock meats at vegan/veg restaurants as meat alts get more and more realistic, especially with lab grown on the horizon. And yes, with the price and sheer volume of options, like I said we have to wonder who/if people are actually buying them.
I can't believe no other company has tried to capitalize on that basic and delicious-sounding recipe! Perhaps it's because Kellogg's [I'm sure] owns the patent.
I used to work in a Jewish Dairy restaurant called Hammer's (NYC) in my youth. The protose steak came with onions and gravy, mashed potatoes and peas and carrots. I salivate to this day thinking of it. They would never reveal recipes there.
super important subject! i've been feeling exactly the same. maybe the only solution is two categories. less realistic versions for vegans/people who dont want the taste/smell/texture of meat, but do want to grab onto a gardenburger. and a hyper realistic version for people who still like meat but dont want to eat dead animals.
I'm so glad you connected with the topic! I honestly didn't know if anyone was going to understand/agree with me, but I had faith at least a few would. I agree with what you're saying; it seems like the categories have gotten so muddled. Like I said, companies we used to be able to rely on for that "not-too-realistic" experience are trying to cross over into "hyper-realistic" territory. It just becomes a confusing experience as a consumer. It would be cool if some type of tier or ranking system were developed to rank products from not-super-realistic (i.e. a Prager's California burger) to ultra-realistic like a Beyond or Impossible.
“Uncanny Valley of meat” is a clever & evocative way of summing up the weirdness of the ones striving to capture the “realness” texture. I personally think they’ll never succeed, and it’s the thing I dislike most about them. I don’t miss real meat or its texture at all, and most meat eaters can still seem to tell the difference. So, who is this even for?
Really interesting points, and yes it seems like that has been the issue with the hyper-realistic iterations. Although, plenty of people do still seem to love them! & yes I thought of the Uncanny Valley comparison and was excited when I saw someone else had made that diagram!
I really enjoyed this one, as it gave me information I didn't know before, and food for thought about the future of meat analogues. I'm thinking about how the much greater diversification of analogue products in places like the UK isn't apparently reaching a saturation point because, and we are unused to seeing this, there is a growing demographic that supports it. Supply seems to be tracking demand, which is increasing. That's not happening here, and one reason may be that the an-ag industry is so much more entrenched in US society and symbiotically supported by our government, unfortunately. I also feel like the timing of all these beef analogue products was a bit off. Too much, too soon. Thanks for posting!
I'm so glad you enjoyed it Tamara! I was particularly interested in the Battle Creek Sanitarium; there's a whole website dedicated to its history that I would like to spend some time browsing. Excellent points--I definitely think there is something in the US with our deeply entrenched animal ag systems, which tie in so much with our politics, that holds us back from making too much progress. It feels like whenever we take a giant step forward (the mock meat boom of 2019-2022), the momentum inevitably halts and we end up regressing a bit. At least plant milk demand and sales seem to keep growing 🤷🏻♀️
The UK is so interesting for that. In the Netherlands we have a lot fewer vegan products but more flexitarians who would be willing to try that out, but in the UK it seems to be more black and white like people are either vegan or they eat meat everyday
I have not eaten meat since I was 9 because I found eating animal flesh to be disgusting and horrific! I also believed and still believe that it’s just wrong to be the cause of the suffering for any other living being. I’m definitely NOT a fan of the the super meaty non-meaty taste and texture because I no longer crave animals to sustain me. I’m in love with veggies and fruits more than fake meat and cheese.
That's awesome that you made the transition so young! 🙌🏻 There definitely seems to be a pattern that the longer someone goes without eating real meat, the less they crave/care for the hyper realistic analogues.
Great video. I could totally relate to all your points. My personal opinion is that I want the hyper realistic ones to keep doing what they're doing because there seems to be a good market for it and I hope it will replace some of the demand for animal products. And I do like eating a good impossible burger now and then. But I don't want the healthier options like praegers to go away. Because 95% of the time, the healthier whole food type alternatives are the ones I'm going for. As a side note I'm not a big fan of the ultimate gardein chicken either. The breading is good but I'm not a fan of the texture or the taste of the inside part. I think morning star buffalo nuggets are way better.
Sounds like we are on the exact same page! Although I didn't really discuss Impossible, I actually far prefer their products to Beyond's. I don't consume them often, but I quite enjoy the burgers, breakfast sausages and chicken nuggets (these are their only products I've tried). They toe that line for me of being too realistic but I do enjoy the taste and can tolerate the texture. I haven't had Morningstar buffalo nuggets in a while but remember them being good! (to be fair, I've rarely met a buffalo product I didn't like 😂)
I miss Gardein's little burger...four in a pack ...about $5 bucks...Gardein, Burger Beefless Ultimate, 12 Ounce...was able to get from Whole Foods for a bit...now totally gone. Also, I miss Miyoko's Unlox Your Dreams cream cheese...made the best "lox" cream cheese, red onion, and tomato Sunday breakfast. -sigh- Just found your channel, because of your Miyoko's extremely well-researched youtube. Keep up the good work!
I don't remember those Gardein burgers! They sound like a great value for the price. Too bad they don't sell them anymore. Did Miyoko's remove the Unlox flavor cream cheese? I personally didn't like it but it seems like many people did! Thank you for the support and I'm so glad you're enjoying my videos!! 😊
Loved the history lessons. I agree, mock meat hasn't improved in taste. After 50 years, I still remember the taste of beef and was afraid to try Impossible and/or beyond. But I did. Doesn't taste like meat and doesn't taste good. Horrible.
Beyond Meat Grilled Chicken Strips were my absolute favorite! I loved the south west flavored one. I also liked the short lived breaded grilled chicken strips and the original beast burger!
Were the breaded chicken strips a Beyond product from back in the day?! If so I definitely missed those. I'm really thinking we should start a change.org petition. Like maybe we can convince Beyond to introduce a "not-as-realistic-but-more-appealing-to-vegans" line?! Like do they want to make money off of us or not?? lol
I like the concept but I admit I've barely ever used it! If I were presented with some compelling recipes or ideas I'd be down to experiment more. Seems like it's a cheap & healthy protein source though!
I distinctly remember being like 10 years old and really enjoying the veggie burgers at school. I'm ok with the realistic mock meats, but the middle ground stuff is unique and special. (The whole food stuff, not as much of a fan of.)
Uptons has great vegan chorizo crumbles that I’ve added to black bean sliders and also makes a great taco filling. Hot dogs are good too! I think they are called “updogs” 😂
I don't think I've tried the crumbles, so thanks for the rec! I did try Updogs which I didn't like--I've finally realized I just don't like hot dogs 😂🤷🏻♀️
I miss Gardenburger "original" veggie burgers. Not meat like, with a good texture. I can't find them anymore... (I'm vegetarian, not sure if they were vegan)
I totally agree with you! I am still an omnivore (although I am lactose intolerant). I do think what they're doing is good for getting more people off meat (me included). I feel like the vegans of my college years would never recognize current meat substitutes as something they can eat. Even the process of making Impossible meat involves making a blood substitute. Which I could literally hear my vegan college friends saying "yuck" in the back of my head. I will say a lot of younger vegans I know these days, LOVE the meat substitutes. I definitely know some younger vegans who almost exclusively eat this stuff which for me seems weird. I like food that's made from whole ingredients that I can understand easily and recreate at home with simple ingredients. It's usually cheaper and healthier too. I don't get it but it's certainly a trend with younger vegans. In my mind, it's fine for a special occasion, like when I'm eating out or hosting a bbq but not an everyday food item. You still have to be careful though! This arms race of creating more and more realistic "meat" in a factory setting is leading some companies to cut corners. Beyond Meat was recently outed as having some pretty disgusting production facilities that included rat feces on the product! I won't order or buy Beyond Meat products anymore because of that. Side note, I lived in Illinois for a long time and I love the Upton's products. Specifically their "sausages" and seitan products. Again, they're expensive. But for me, those meat substitutes are not something that I eat every day. More like something I make for a special meal or when I truly need the convenience and flavor of a meat substitute.
I agree with many of your points; also that is disgusting about the Beyond Meat conditions! I hadn't heard about that--truly disturbing. And yes the "arms race" will undoubtedly lead to lower quality products, although I understand the desire and need to have lower-cost options for meat substitutes (again though, ironic as legumes/whole grains are some of the cheapest ingredients!). Glad to hear you loved Upton's--I think they will be my next mock meat "splurge." Thanks for watching!
I think a lot of old school vegans or vegetarians ate/eat that way because of taste or texture issues with meat, but more of us nowadays went vegan or veggie for the animals, so a lot of us do like those meat substitutes. As long as they don't come out with any mock meat on the bone, the only issue I have like marielle said is the gristle in the beyond sausages. But that's because I had texture issues with bone, tendon, gristle etc
Your channel is fantastic! I have been vegetarian since childhood and became vegan about fifteen years ago. I never liked meat, so looking for a replacement was not an issue for me. I tried the beyond burger twice but did not like it. Too close to real meat. I usually just end up making my own homemade version.
Sadly I only vaguely remember this! It seems like Beyond/Impossible burgers have taken that place. I can’t remember the last time I had (or was offered) a Gardenburger.
I use mock meats sparingly and I stretch it pretty far. They are expensive and not the best nutritionally speaking. I learned to make my own vegan deli slices, and really love tofu.
There’s nothing worse than chowing down on a super-delicious “vegan” food and then wondering-sometimes with no way to know for sure one way or the other-if it tastes so good because vegan recipes have gotten so much better…or if the joke’s on you: it’s not vegan at all but the real thing. I was at a pizza pub with a large group of friends and commented out loud how delicious my veggie pizza with vegan mozzarella was. It was the best pizza I’d had in years! (This was about 8 years ago or so-remember vegan cheese back then?- and I was five years a vegan at that point.) Luckily (?!) the server overheard me and said, “I am so sorry! That is not our vegan cheese! I forgot to put that in the order!” I was so grossed out I haven’t gone back since. Used to be my fave place. On the other hand, I got vegan pho with fried tofu from my favorite Vietnamese takeout place last week, and the tofu looked and chewed so much like chicken I called to complain about the meat in my vegan soup. I thought maybe they had given me the wrong order. The owner promised me it was actually tofu “cooked like chicken.” I believe her but only because I’ve been there many times and their food has always been top notch, and they offer vegan pho ffs! It’s a double-edged sword. Not realistic at all sucks to the point of inedible, and “too good to be true” meat that makes you doubt it’s even vegan also sucks. The only way to know for sure is to make your own. If you want to stay a vegan, become a chef.
I agree it is such a double-edged sword! As meat/dairy/egg alternatives get more and more realistic it feels like it's best to avoid ordering them in omni restaurants and just getting them in vegan restaurants. In omni restaurants I'd prefer something like a legume and grain bowl-- something that's harder to mix up. And I agree home cooking is best if you want to be sure! PS jealous of your pho place--that vegan pho sounds delicious!
I loved gardein's old chickn products but they've gotten so expensive, I can't buy them anymore even when they have them in my supermarket. I also liked their "fsh filets" and some of their beefy products like the crumbles, meatballs and even the szechuan strips. Recently tried their ultimate popcorn chickn or whatever it is, and I thought they were good enough. Don't buy the alpha chicken strips, they taste weird. The alpha patties also have that weird taste, but somehow I tolerate it better in breaded patty form. I tried making fajitas with the strips and the rest of the bag has been taking up freezer space for like a month cause I feel bad throwing food away. I'll find some way to eat them... I liked the beyond chicken tenders, even though they were chewy and I don't like their burgers, and I like their spicy breakfast sausage patty too, crumbled on pizza, or with tofu scramble. My husband likes impossible and beyond burgers. I prefer simple, cheap Boca chkn paties or boca chickn nuggies. All these specialty vegan products have gotten so expensive though, all the cheeses, mock meats and stuff. I thought prices were supposed to go down for these things as they became more available. 🙄 Once prices go up, they never come down.
You're right; I have noticed prices getting so high; I swear Gardein used to be around $5 and now the prices have crept up toward $10 for most of their products! I think that also factors into people's adventurousness with trying something new; knowing we could pay $10 for something that we end up hating doesn't make it super appealing! Funny enough, I just bought the Alpha buffalo nuggets last week; I did notice a slightly funny taste but with the buffalo breading and the ranch I inevitably dip them in, they are tolerable 😂 I always forget about Boca, I will have to revisit them!
9:12 - this doesn’t look like something being sold just for health! Poor cow. And piggy. It would be wild if a modern product had this picture on its packaging.
For me, mock meats, and other alternatives to animal products is about reducing animal suffering, not with catering to vegans! Why are so many vegans more concerned with their own veganism, comfort, purity and desires than with reducing animal suffering?
I'm definitely not more concerned with the things you outlined than with reducing animal suffering. And I don't think the two are mutually exclusive. I know a lot of meat eaters who prefer the less realistic mock meats to the hyper realistic ones. That's why, as stated in the video, I think there needs to be a balance instead of companies crowding into one space trying to emulate one particular product that made a lot of money.
@@TotallyForkable I apologize if my comment sounded accusatory towards you. It did come off that way. I was referring to many things such as some vegans being against cellular meat, or obsessing over tiny amounts of animal products in items like wine or beer, ( animals are not bred for beer and wine) or what is in the bread when ordering a veggie burger at a restaurant or a drop of dashi in miso soup at a Japanese restaurant. This will not help animals and it makes it seem too difficult to go vegan and discourages others from considering it. Just about anything we consume and even just living harms animals at some level: our houses, organic produce is grown with manure and bone meal and other animal inputs, etc. I have been vegan for about 34 years and I have seen plenty of concern over personal purity. I did it too in the early years. There is an obsession with purity that imo hurts animals.
I know a lot of non vegans who love Beyond burgers for example, but they would not choose it over meat because meat is still cheaper. I dont know what this company thinks they are doing selling 2 vegan burgers for €4.50 when meat eaters can get 2 beef burgers for cheaper (at least in my country). And the hyper realistic thing, i like it, but only when i make it myself. If i order a burger at a restaurant i would prefer it to be obviously vegan, because i know restaurants do make mistakes or even purposely mess up vegan orders (i have experienced this working in kitchens and food service in general)
Oh, about the bacon mock meats! Why on earth are they awfully trying to recreate the fatty white part. Even loads of meat eaters i know cut that part off. No meat eater I know prefers the mock bacon. So who are these products really for
I definitely agree with your point about only wanting to eat hyper realistic mock meats at home. Having had and heard about many experiences with an order getting mixed up at an omni restaurant, I'm not sure I could ever relax and enjoy a hyper-realistic alternative in a "mixed" restaurant setting. Re: price, I can't say for sure as I don't buy meat, but I know the goal of the Beyonds and Impossibles of the world is to be competitive with or cheaper than meat. I think it will eventually happen.
I honestly don't mind the two different textures/mouthfeels within mock bacons. I think it helps create a more realistic/interesting experience, and if someone is looking for a "bacon"-like experience, they probably aren't looking for low-fat. There honestly just aren't enough bacon products out there right now to judge; hopefully that will change soon!
Great, absolutely agree. As a long-time vegan I go for the middle ground, no need for anything super-convincing, just something that I can use in favourite recipes and tastes good. Beyond and Impossible have really lost the plot about veganism, and hopefully will reconsider their target markets . Until then I'll stay away, thanks.
Yes, middle ground all the way for me too! To be fair, Impossible and Beyond have always stated that their target demo is meat eaters, but the way they have actively gone against catering to vegans has pissed me off (i.e. Beyond discontinuing their original chicken strips even though many people loved them).
ua-cam.com/video/XZBiMvP4uCc/v-deo.html -- Vegan "meatpie" can be fantastic! When my kids went vegetarian/vegan, they had me make it for them every Christmas, sometimes with crumbles and other times with legumes. This last Christmas we made it with lentils, potatoes, and of course the traditional spices, with a vegan hot water crust. Don't give up on tourtière, ma chère cousine!
Hi!! I love this so much; thank you for sharing. So actually, a few years ago I did the same thing and veganized a family tourtière recipe! I followed the recipe to a T except used vegan butter in the crust and replaced the meat with a lentil/walnut mixture. It came out so well! I wanted to show my family (and myself) that family traditions and recipes don't have to be abandoned just bc you are giving up animal products. So I should have said in the video, I don't recommend the animal meat pie, but the vegan version I definitely recommend! 😋
I dont like the labelling of "Plant Based". To me its a cop out. And misleading. It's too vague. Plant based doesnt mean 100% cruelty free. It could have animal additives. If the product doesn't state cruelty free or vegan I will not buy it as it seems to be corporate interest based in making money without being sued. ie: selling on misleading feel good band wagon. Much like happy dairy cows and happy egg producing chickens. I don't encourage people to buy mock meats unless they are 100% transparent that they are vegan, cruelty free and labelled so. Otherwise the only good you are doing is for the company owners wallets.🐖🐄🐏🐑🐣
Please, everyone. The thumbnail/title are meant to be a bit cheeky/overdramatic. I don’t think anyone hates us (well, actually i do, but not necessarily Beyond & Impossible 😂).
I'm a big fan of homemade WFPB burger patties and otherwise minimally/unprocessed foods like legumes (e.g. lentil 'ground beef') and tofu. Tofu is so versatile! I don't do well with food preservatives, and generally try to eat primarily whole foods, so I haven't really tried out mock meats, Beyond/Impossible Burgers, etc.
I know I'm hardly typical though and I recognize the need for mock meats for most people who miss specific meat textures. I never missed meat and I'm happy occasionally splurging on fancy PB cheeses (yum!).
P.S. Cute cat co-star! lol
The longer I'm vegan, the more I am drawn to legumes, tofu and tempeh as my main sources of protein. I wonder if there's something to that--the longer someone goes without meat the less they crave it (I'm sure there is). And yes to fancy vegan cheese splurges!! nothing better ☺️
Marielle, know this, you literally have the best vegan content on UA-cam. Best being a very broad term, as your content is primarily food based but your research, delivery, personality, and charisma for the subject shines miles beyond other vegan UA-camrs at the moment.
🥹 wow, thank you SO much Austin. I really appreciate your support and kind words. These type of comments keep me going 🙏🏻
I found her videos yesterday and have been binging I love video essays and veganism so I love how her videos combine those I also like how she relates it to what’s currently going on like the got milk? And Taylor swift video.
I am vegan and loveee the hyper realistic mock meats. I never understood why someone wouldn't. We know it's not real its just a flavor and texture that tastes good. And hopefully will bring more meat eaters to the other side. Thanks for the vid! ❤
This was always my sentiment too until this latest iteration of slightly "chewier" ones as I described. But yes, I think it's great for vegans who miss it and for omnis to try something different!
I would literally cry for a week straight if Beyond decided to bring back the original chicken strips (they never will 😭)
I will never forgive this atrocity. Beyond gets the wall in our vegan revolution.
@@BoboftheOldeWays They were so wrong for this!!
24 years ago, all I had was a plate full of salad and tofu blocks to make call a meal. No mock meat, pseudo cheese and forget nut milk. Todays choices are amazing for vegans, vegetarians and those curious in plant based food.
I applaud impossible burger and beyond burger and any company that creates credible non-animal products that might shift a carnivore’s choices. Anything to shut down animal farming .
I truly admire you for sticking it out through those times!
Interesting and informative. Just needs more discussion of how plant meat competes with government-subsidized animal meat on a not-so-level playing field.
Yes this is a whole other (connected) issue. Imagine if the US gov started subsidizing mock meat companies on the basis of preventing climate change?!
👏🏻 I agree with all your points. Very interesting to learn about Protose. I hadn’t thought about the uncanny valley phenomenon applying to mock meats but it absolutely does!
Thank you Eva!!
I get nervous about ordering hyperrealistic mock meats at a restaurant, especially fast food. I know fast food workers are overworked and often end up working on muscle memory to meet the demand for speed. I always have to double and triple check when I order sofritas at Chipotle, and that stuff isn't super realistic as mock meat goes. I'm worried I wouldn't be able to tell if I was accidentally given real meat if I ordered a super realistic mock meat.
So I just go for beans where available when I order from a restaurant. Some places don't have anything better than just a veggie side, though. :(
I do kind of wonder who the target audience is for some of the mock meat options out there. I recently tried the raised and rooted nuggets and they look like nuggets (though the coating resembles tempura more than a typical nugget coating) but they taste strongly like peas. I don't even want to eat that again, and I doubt omnivores looking for meat alternatives would either.
I do like some of the realistic mock meats you don't like, though the super realistic ones tend to be way pricier. I do like the gardein ultimate mock chicken, but it's $9 per bag here, and I just can't justify that. Luckily, my grocery store still carries the original gardein stuff, though the price has gone up on that too, so I don't get it as often as I used to. I'm not really interested in the mock meats that try to get that bloody flavor, but I do like the beyond ground beef substitute. It's got a strong umami taste I enjoy, though the texture is a bit scary. Again, it's pretty expensive though, and I think my grocery store has been struggling to sell it because it's been on a permanent deep sale this whole year so far.
Yes, I've actually seen quite a bit of discussion in online vegan communities lately about being paranoid to order the hyper realistic mock meat options and, even in a few cases, people being served meat and trusting it was vegan, only to find out later it wasn't! Many vegans say they will only order mock meats at vegan/veg restaurants as meat alts get more and more realistic, especially with lab grown on the horizon.
And yes, with the price and sheer volume of options, like I said we have to wonder who/if people are actually buying them.
Okay, now I really want to try Protose. Sounds amazing 🥜😛
I can't believe no other company has tried to capitalize on that basic and delicious-sounding recipe! Perhaps it's because Kellogg's [I'm sure] owns the patent.
I used to work in a Jewish Dairy restaurant called Hammer's (NYC) in my youth. The protose steak came with onions and gravy, mashed potatoes and peas and carrots. I salivate to this day thinking of it. They would never reveal recipes there.
Protose contains eggs
super important subject!
i've been feeling exactly the same. maybe the only solution is two categories. less realistic versions for vegans/people who dont want the taste/smell/texture of meat, but do want to grab onto a gardenburger. and a hyper realistic version for people who still like meat but dont want to eat dead animals.
I'm so glad you connected with the topic! I honestly didn't know if anyone was going to understand/agree with me, but I had faith at least a few would. I agree with what you're saying; it seems like the categories have gotten so muddled. Like I said, companies we used to be able to rely on for that "not-too-realistic" experience are trying to cross over into "hyper-realistic" territory. It just becomes a confusing experience as a consumer. It would be cool if some type of tier or ranking system were developed to rank products from not-super-realistic (i.e. a Prager's California burger) to ultra-realistic like a Beyond or Impossible.
“Uncanny Valley of meat” is a clever & evocative way of summing up the weirdness of the ones striving to capture the “realness” texture. I personally think they’ll never succeed, and it’s the thing I dislike most about them. I don’t miss real meat or its texture at all, and most meat eaters can still seem to tell the difference. So, who is this even for?
Really interesting points, and yes it seems like that has been the issue with the hyper-realistic iterations. Although, plenty of people do still seem to love them! & yes I thought of the Uncanny Valley comparison and was excited when I saw someone else had made that diagram!
I really enjoyed this one, as it gave me information I didn't know before, and food for thought about the future of meat analogues. I'm thinking about how the much greater diversification of analogue products in places like the UK isn't apparently reaching a saturation point because, and we are unused to seeing this, there is a growing demographic that supports it. Supply seems to be tracking demand, which is increasing. That's not happening here, and one reason may be that the an-ag industry is so much more entrenched in US society and symbiotically supported by our government, unfortunately. I also feel like the timing of all these beef analogue products was a bit off. Too much, too soon. Thanks for posting!
I'm so glad you enjoyed it Tamara! I was particularly interested in the Battle Creek Sanitarium; there's a whole website dedicated to its history that I would like to spend some time browsing. Excellent points--I definitely think there is something in the US with our deeply entrenched animal ag systems, which tie in so much with our politics, that holds us back from making too much progress. It feels like whenever we take a giant step forward (the mock meat boom of 2019-2022), the momentum inevitably halts and we end up regressing a bit. At least plant milk demand and sales seem to keep growing 🤷🏻♀️
The UK is so interesting for that. In the Netherlands we have a lot fewer vegan products but more flexitarians who would be willing to try that out, but in the UK it seems to be more black and white like people are either vegan or they eat meat everyday
I have not eaten meat since I was 9 because I found eating animal flesh to be disgusting and horrific! I also believed and still believe that it’s just wrong to be the cause of the suffering for any other living being. I’m definitely NOT a fan of the the super meaty non-meaty taste and texture because I no longer crave animals to sustain me. I’m in love with veggies and fruits more than fake meat and cheese.
That's awesome that you made the transition so young! 🙌🏻 There definitely seems to be a pattern that the longer someone goes without eating real meat, the less they crave/care for the hyper realistic analogues.
Great video. I could totally relate to all your points. My personal opinion is that I want the hyper realistic ones to keep doing what they're doing because there seems to be a good market for it and I hope it will replace some of the demand for animal products. And I do like eating a good impossible burger now and then. But I don't want the healthier options like praegers to go away. Because 95% of the time, the healthier whole food type alternatives are the ones I'm going for. As a side note I'm not a big fan of the ultimate gardein chicken either. The breading is good but I'm not a fan of the texture or the taste of the inside part. I think morning star buffalo nuggets are way better.
Sounds like we are on the exact same page! Although I didn't really discuss Impossible, I actually far prefer their products to Beyond's. I don't consume them often, but I quite enjoy the burgers, breakfast sausages and chicken nuggets (these are their only products I've tried). They toe that line for me of being too realistic but I do enjoy the taste and can tolerate the texture. I haven't had Morningstar buffalo nuggets in a while but remember them being good! (to be fair, I've rarely met a buffalo product I didn't like 😂)
@@TotallyForkable totally with you on buffalo products.
this is a great channel- i feel the same way about mock meats.
Thank you so much!
I miss Gardein's little burger...four in a pack ...about $5 bucks...Gardein, Burger Beefless Ultimate, 12 Ounce...was able to get from Whole Foods for a bit...now totally gone. Also, I miss Miyoko's Unlox Your Dreams cream cheese...made the best "lox" cream cheese, red onion, and tomato Sunday breakfast. -sigh- Just found your channel, because of your Miyoko's extremely well-researched youtube. Keep up the good work!
I don't remember those Gardein burgers! They sound like a great value for the price. Too bad they don't sell them anymore. Did Miyoko's remove the Unlox flavor cream cheese? I personally didn't like it but it seems like many people did! Thank you for the support and I'm so glad you're enjoying my videos!! 😊
Loved the history lessons. I agree, mock meat hasn't improved in taste. After 50 years, I still remember the taste of beef and was afraid to try Impossible and/or beyond. But I did. Doesn't taste like meat and doesn't taste good. Horrible.
Beyond Meat Grilled Chicken Strips were my absolute favorite! I loved the south west flavored one. I also liked the short lived breaded grilled chicken strips and the original beast burger!
Were the breaded chicken strips a Beyond product from back in the day?! If so I definitely missed those. I'm really thinking we should start a change.org petition. Like maybe we can convince Beyond to introduce a "not-as-realistic-but-more-appealing-to-vegans" line?! Like do they want to make money off of us or not?? lol
What do yall think of TVP?
I like the concept but I admit I've barely ever used it! If I were presented with some compelling recipes or ideas I'd be down to experiment more. Seems like it's a cheap & healthy protein source though!
@@TotallyForkable it’s delicious! UA-cam creators have a lot of good recipes
I distinctly remember being like 10 years old and really enjoying the veggie burgers at school. I'm ok with the realistic mock meats, but the middle ground stuff is unique and special. (The whole food stuff, not as much of a fan of.)
I agree that it's unique and special and I hope it doesn't go away!
Uptons has great vegan chorizo crumbles that I’ve added to black bean sliders and also makes a great taco filling. Hot dogs are good too! I think they are called “updogs” 😂
I don't think I've tried the crumbles, so thanks for the rec! I did try Updogs which I didn't like--I've finally realized I just don't like hot dogs 😂🤷🏻♀️
I miss Gardenburger "original" veggie burgers. Not meat like, with a good texture. I can't find them anymore... (I'm vegetarian, not sure if they were vegan)
Yes, so many of the “OG” mock meats seem to have slowly disappeared 🥲
I totally agree with you! I am still an omnivore (although I am lactose intolerant). I do think what they're doing is good for getting more people off meat (me included). I feel like the vegans of my college years would never recognize current meat substitutes as something they can eat. Even the process of making Impossible meat involves making a blood substitute. Which I could literally hear my vegan college friends saying "yuck" in the back of my head. I will say a lot of younger vegans I know these days, LOVE the meat substitutes. I definitely know some younger vegans who almost exclusively eat this stuff which for me seems weird. I like food that's made from whole ingredients that I can understand easily and recreate at home with simple ingredients. It's usually cheaper and healthier too. I don't get it but it's certainly a trend with younger vegans. In my mind, it's fine for a special occasion, like when I'm eating out or hosting a bbq but not an everyday food item. You still have to be careful though! This arms race of creating more and more realistic "meat" in a factory setting is leading some companies to cut corners. Beyond Meat was recently outed as having some pretty disgusting production facilities that included rat feces on the product! I won't order or buy Beyond Meat products anymore because of that.
Side note, I lived in Illinois for a long time and I love the Upton's products. Specifically their "sausages" and seitan products. Again, they're expensive. But for me, those meat substitutes are not something that I eat every day. More like something I make for a special meal or when I truly need the convenience and flavor of a meat substitute.
I agree with many of your points; also that is disgusting about the Beyond Meat conditions! I hadn't heard about that--truly disturbing. And yes the "arms race" will undoubtedly lead to lower quality products, although I understand the desire and need to have lower-cost options for meat substitutes (again though, ironic as legumes/whole grains are some of the cheapest ingredients!).
Glad to hear you loved Upton's--I think they will be my next mock meat "splurge." Thanks for watching!
I think a lot of old school vegans or vegetarians ate/eat that way because of taste or texture issues with meat, but more of us nowadays went vegan or veggie for the animals, so a lot of us do like those meat substitutes. As long as they don't come out with any mock meat on the bone, the only issue I have like marielle said is the gristle in the beyond sausages. But that's because I had texture issues with bone, tendon, gristle etc
Your channel is fantastic! I have been vegetarian since childhood and became vegan about fifteen years ago. I never liked meat, so looking for a replacement was not an issue for me. I tried the beyond burger twice but did not like it. Too close to real meat. I usually just end up making my own homemade version.
I think it's great to not be reliant on mock meats; I'm sure you save a lot of money that way as well! Thank you for the kind words 😊
Anyone remember when fast casual and sit in casual restaurants had garden burgers?
Sadly I only vaguely remember this! It seems like Beyond/Impossible burgers have taken that place. I can’t remember the last time I had (or was offered) a Gardenburger.
I use mock meats sparingly and I stretch it pretty far. They are expensive and not the best nutritionally speaking. I learned to make my own vegan deli slices, and really love tofu.
That sounds amazing! Did you use a particular recipe for your deli slices?
There’s nothing worse than chowing down on a super-delicious “vegan” food and then wondering-sometimes with no way to know for sure one way or the other-if it tastes so good because vegan recipes have gotten so much better…or if the joke’s on you: it’s not vegan at all but the real thing.
I was at a pizza pub with a large group of friends and commented out loud how delicious my veggie pizza with vegan mozzarella was. It was the best pizza I’d had in years! (This was about 8 years ago or so-remember vegan cheese back then?- and I was five years a vegan at that point.) Luckily (?!) the server overheard me and said, “I am so sorry! That is not our vegan cheese! I forgot to put that in the order!” I was so grossed out I haven’t gone back since. Used to be my fave place.
On the other hand, I got vegan pho with fried tofu from my favorite Vietnamese takeout place last week, and the tofu looked and chewed so much like chicken I called to complain about the meat in my vegan soup. I thought maybe they had given me the wrong order. The owner promised me it was actually tofu “cooked like chicken.” I believe her but only because I’ve been there many times and their food has always been top notch, and they offer vegan pho ffs!
It’s a double-edged sword. Not realistic at all sucks to the point of inedible, and “too good to be true” meat that makes you doubt it’s even vegan also sucks.
The only way to know for sure is to make your own. If you want to stay a vegan, become a chef.
I agree it is such a double-edged sword! As meat/dairy/egg alternatives get more and more realistic it feels like it's best to avoid ordering them in omni restaurants and just getting them in vegan restaurants. In omni restaurants I'd prefer something like a legume and grain bowl-- something that's harder to mix up. And I agree home cooking is best if you want to be sure! PS jealous of your pho place--that vegan pho sounds delicious!
I loved gardein's old chickn products but they've gotten so expensive, I can't buy them anymore even when they have them in my supermarket. I also liked their "fsh filets" and some of their beefy products like the crumbles, meatballs and even the szechuan strips. Recently tried their ultimate popcorn chickn or whatever it is, and I thought they were good enough.
Don't buy the alpha chicken strips, they taste weird. The alpha patties also have that weird taste, but somehow I tolerate it better in breaded patty form. I tried making fajitas with the strips and the rest of the bag has been taking up freezer space for like a month cause I feel bad throwing food away. I'll find some way to eat them...
I liked the beyond chicken tenders, even though they were chewy and I don't like their burgers, and I like their spicy breakfast sausage patty too, crumbled on pizza, or with tofu scramble. My husband likes impossible and beyond burgers. I prefer simple, cheap Boca chkn paties or boca chickn nuggies.
All these specialty vegan products have gotten so expensive though, all the cheeses, mock meats and stuff. I thought prices were supposed to go down for these things as they became more available. 🙄 Once prices go up, they never come down.
You're right; I have noticed prices getting so high; I swear Gardein used to be around $5 and now the prices have crept up toward $10 for most of their products! I think that also factors into people's adventurousness with trying something new; knowing we could pay $10 for something that we end up hating doesn't make it super appealing!
Funny enough, I just bought the Alpha buffalo nuggets last week; I did notice a slightly funny taste but with the buffalo breading and the ranch I inevitably dip them in, they are tolerable 😂 I always forget about Boca, I will have to revisit them!
9:12 - this doesn’t look like something being sold just for health! Poor cow. And piggy. It would be wild if a modern product had this picture on its packaging.
For me, mock meats, and other alternatives to animal products is about reducing animal suffering, not with catering to vegans! Why are so many vegans more concerned with their own veganism, comfort, purity and desires than with reducing animal suffering?
I'm definitely not more concerned with the things you outlined than with reducing animal suffering. And I don't think the two are mutually exclusive. I know a lot of meat eaters who prefer the less realistic mock meats to the hyper realistic ones. That's why, as stated in the video, I think there needs to be a balance instead of companies crowding into one space trying to emulate one particular product that made a lot of money.
@@TotallyForkable I apologize if my comment sounded accusatory towards you. It did come off that way. I was referring to many things such as some vegans being against cellular meat, or obsessing over tiny amounts of animal products in items like wine or beer, ( animals are not bred for beer and wine) or what is in the bread when ordering a veggie burger at a restaurant or a drop of dashi in miso soup at a Japanese restaurant. This will not help animals and it makes it seem too difficult to go vegan and discourages others from considering it. Just about anything we consume and even just living harms animals at some level: our houses, organic produce is grown with manure and bone meal and other animal inputs, etc. I have been vegan for about 34 years and I have seen plenty of concern over personal purity. I did it too in the early years. There is an obsession with purity that imo hurts animals.
I totally agree with this!
I know a lot of non vegans who love Beyond burgers for example, but they would not choose it over meat because meat is still cheaper. I dont know what this company thinks they are doing selling 2 vegan burgers for €4.50 when meat eaters can get 2 beef burgers for cheaper (at least in my country). And the hyper realistic thing, i like it, but only when i make it myself. If i order a burger at a restaurant i would prefer it to be obviously vegan, because i know restaurants do make mistakes or even purposely mess up vegan orders (i have experienced this working in kitchens and food service in general)
Oh, about the bacon mock meats! Why on earth are they awfully trying to recreate the fatty white part. Even loads of meat eaters i know cut that part off. No meat eater I know prefers the mock bacon. So who are these products really for
I definitely agree with your point about only wanting to eat hyper realistic mock meats at home. Having had and heard about many experiences with an order getting mixed up at an omni restaurant, I'm not sure I could ever relax and enjoy a hyper-realistic alternative in a "mixed" restaurant setting. Re: price, I can't say for sure as I don't buy meat, but I know the goal of the Beyonds and Impossibles of the world is to be competitive with or cheaper than meat. I think it will eventually happen.
I honestly don't mind the two different textures/mouthfeels within mock bacons. I think it helps create a more realistic/interesting experience, and if someone is looking for a "bacon"-like experience, they probably aren't looking for low-fat. There honestly just aren't enough bacon products out there right now to judge; hopefully that will change soon!
The cat in the back 😍
LOL. Just chillin 🥰
Great, absolutely agree. As a long-time vegan I go for the middle ground, no need for anything super-convincing, just something that I can use in favourite recipes and tastes good. Beyond and Impossible have really lost the plot about veganism, and hopefully will reconsider their target markets . Until then I'll stay away, thanks.
Yes, middle ground all the way for me too! To be fair, Impossible and Beyond have always stated that their target demo is meat eaters, but the way they have actively gone against catering to vegans has pissed me off (i.e. Beyond discontinuing their original chicken strips even though many people loved them).
It seems wrong to replace flesh with mock flesh. The whole point is to be vegetarian.
The whole point of veganism is not to harm animals. Mock flesh doesn’t do that so it aligns with veganism (and vegetarianism).
ua-cam.com/video/XZBiMvP4uCc/v-deo.html -- Vegan "meatpie" can be fantastic! When my kids went vegetarian/vegan, they had me make it for them every Christmas, sometimes with crumbles and other times with legumes. This last Christmas we made it with lentils, potatoes, and of course the traditional spices, with a vegan hot water crust. Don't give up on tourtière, ma chère cousine!
Hi!! I love this so much; thank you for sharing. So actually, a few years ago I did the same thing and veganized a family tourtière recipe! I followed the recipe to a T except used vegan butter in the crust and replaced the meat with a lentil/walnut mixture. It came out so well! I wanted to show my family (and myself) that family traditions and recipes don't have to be abandoned just bc you are giving up animal products. So I should have said in the video, I don't recommend the animal meat pie, but the vegan version I definitely recommend! 😋
Backlash to wokeness must be referring to Bill Gates, Motesanto, GMOs, etc.
Yes I can definitely see that.
Like your cat
Thanks! 😸
Upton's has the best seitan...bar none.
I’ve gotta try it!
I dont like the labelling of "Plant Based".
To me its a cop out. And misleading. It's too vague. Plant based doesnt mean 100% cruelty free. It could have animal additives. If the product doesn't state cruelty free or vegan I will not buy it as it seems to be corporate interest based in making money without being sued. ie: selling on misleading feel good band wagon. Much like happy dairy cows and happy egg producing chickens.
I don't encourage people to buy mock meats unless they are 100% transparent that they are vegan, cruelty free and labelled so.
Otherwise the only good you are doing is for the company owners wallets.🐖🐄🐏🐑🐣
Yes I have seen too many companies use “plant based” to sell their products that contain animal ingredients 😠
Easily your best video.
Wow, thank you!! 🙏🏻
This is ridiculous. And by this I mean you.
😂